Re: Is running spamassin on a home server a waste? (was ... Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth)

[John Hasler]

I wrote:
> My scripts copy all new non-spam to a ham directory which is fed to
> sa-learn every night and then the contents of both the ham and the
> spam directories are deleted.

cbannister writes:
> IIRC, it seems pointless feeding your mail through a spam filter
> if you're downloading it from your ISP/email provider.

Newsguy does the usual SMTP-time stuff and has effective filters: they
probably catch ten times as much stuff as I see with my filters turned
off.  However their filters are not individualized and I doubt that I
would be satisfied with a system intended for the below-average user
even if they were.  My filters are down right now because my server died
and I'm seeing twenty or thirty spams a day.  When I replace the server
and get Spamassassin retrained I will se an average of less than one.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: Is running spamassin on a home server a waste? (was ... Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth)

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 27 April 2016 04:31:17 cbannis...@slingshot.co.nz wrote:

> On Sat, Apr 23, 2016 at 12:57:08PM -0500, John Hasler wrote:
> > > Thanks for making me think of that and the fact that over the last
> > > 10 years, the only ham its seen are its mistakes. So this question
> > > might have had the seeds of something to help. :)
> >
> > My scripts copy all new non-spam to a ham directory which is fed to
> > sa-learn every night and then the contents of both the ham and the
> > spam directories are deleted.
>
> IIRC, it seems pointless feeding your mail through a spam filter
> if you're downloading it from your ISP/email provider.

One of the two mail servers I use is an ancient qmail setup that dates 
from around 1998, and spam filtering is not its strong point. So 
spamassassin catches about 40 a day, and I feed about that many to 
sa-learn manually.  Jim tells me that qmail's filters do stop around 
20,000 a day according to its logs.  Also, of the 100 incoming ports, a 
mail will time out and be bounced by the sender because the spammers 
will open a port and forget to close it, so its out of incoming ports 
about 50% of the day.  A whole new machine has been built, around 
sendmail I think, with quite a bit more iron, but he has a vacation week 
coming up and is not about to make the changeover and leave for a week.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: Is running spamassin on a home server a waste? (was ... Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth)

[Brian]

On Wed 27 Apr 2016 at 11:14:15 +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 09:53:31AM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > On Wed 27 Apr 2016 at 20:31:17 +1200, cbannis...@slingshot.co.nz wrote:
> > 
> > > On Sat, Apr 23, 2016 at 12:57:08PM -0500, John Hasler wrote:
> > > > > Thanks for making me think of that and the fact that over the last 10
> > > > > years, the only ham its seen are its mistakes. So this question might
> > > > > have had the seeds of something to help. :)
> > > > 
> > > > My scripts copy all new non-spam to a ham directory which is fed to
> > > > sa-learn every night and then the contents of both the ham and the
> > > > spam directories are deleted.
> > > 
> > > IIRC, it seems pointless feeding your mail through a spam filter
> > > if you're downloading it from your ISP/email provider.
> > 
> > I think you are assuming the ISP provides a spam filtering service and
> > you are happy to entrust the deletion of your mail to it.
> 
> There is still some truth to the above:
> 
> The most effective measure against spam these days is rejecting
> the mail up front (i.e. while the SMTP session is active). This
> way a (hopefully rare!) false positive is rejected in a way the
> sender can act on it.

I'd agree with this but would suggest the (vast) majority of users have
their mail delivered to a POP3 or IMAP account. Any rejection at SMTP
time is left up to the ISP and a user is usually unaware of this or has
no control over it.

> Once you got the mail it's too late. Either you have to generate
> a bounce (not a good idea these days, because real spam will have
> bogus headers and the bounce will hit a poor unsuspecting victim),
> or you have to look into the spam anyway, or the spam disappears
> in a black hole (again not a good idea, since in the false
> positive case the sender will newer know).
> 
> Therefore once your ISP has accepted the mail for you it's kinda
> "too late" -- they better have a good spam filtering setup in
> which you have some influence (the spam filter will only work
> if it has a notion of what *you* consider to be spam/ham).

Indeed, the transaction is complete and the mail delivered once the ISP
accepts it. All a user can do is try to avoid downloading unwanted mail.
Leaving filtering to the ISP is fraught as many offer only a "take it or
leave it" service, again with no user control. Even more do not allow an
opt-out and no matter what the quality of the service a deleted mail is
a deleted mail. I'd rather make my own mistakes. And have. :)

Re: Is running spamassin on a home server a waste? (was ... Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth)

[Hans]

Hi list,

I am running spamassassin in kmail. As I got several spam from my provider 
although there is a spamfilter active, I trained my own spamfilter very well.

There are no false positives or negatives since many years. 

However, some spammails still appear (about 2-3 a week), but this is no 
problem and I use them to train my spamfilter better and better.

All Spam will be moved into the wastepaperfolder (or whatever that thing is 
called).

Of course, a spamfilter is best set at the receiving mailserver, but I made the 
experience, that all spamfilters from the mailproviders are low quality. I 
suppose, these are all commercial products, and we all know, what quality 
commercial products have, do we?

Hope this helps a little bit.

Best regards

Hans

Re: Is running spamassin on a home server a waste? (was ... Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth)

[tomas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 09:53:31AM +0100, Brian wrote:
> On Wed 27 Apr 2016 at 20:31:17 +1200, cbannis...@slingshot.co.nz wrote:
> 
> > On Sat, Apr 23, 2016 at 12:57:08PM -0500, John Hasler wrote:
> > > > Thanks for making me think of that and the fact that over the last 10
> > > > years, the only ham its seen are its mistakes. So this question might
> > > > have had the seeds of something to help. :)
> > > 
> > > My scripts copy all new non-spam to a ham directory which is fed to
> > > sa-learn every night and then the contents of both the ham and the
> > > spam directories are deleted.
> > 
> > IIRC, it seems pointless feeding your mail through a spam filter
> > if you're downloading it from your ISP/email provider.
> 
> I think you are assuming the ISP provides a spam filtering service and
> you are happy to entrust the deletion of your mail to it.

There is still some truth to the above:

The most effective measure against spam these days is rejecting
the mail up front (i.e. while the SMTP session is active). This
way a (hopefully rare!) false positive is rejected in a way the
sender can act on it.

Once you got the mail it's too late. Either you have to generate
a bounce (not a good idea these days, because real spam will have
bogus headers and the bounce will hit a poor unsuspecting victim),
or you have to look into the spam anyway, or the spam disappears
in a black hole (again not a good idea, since in the false
positive case the sender will newer know).

Therefore once your ISP has accepted the mail for you it's kinda
"too late" -- they better have a good spam filtering setup in
which you have some influence (the spam filter will only work
if it has a notion of what *you* consider to be spam/ham).

regards
- -- t
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)

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=t67R
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Re: Is running spamassin on a home server a waste? (was ... Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth)

[Brian]

On Wed 27 Apr 2016 at 20:31:17 +1200, cbannis...@slingshot.co.nz wrote:

> On Sat, Apr 23, 2016 at 12:57:08PM -0500, John Hasler wrote:
> > > Thanks for making me think of that and the fact that over the last 10
> > > years, the only ham its seen are its mistakes. So this question might
> > > have had the seeds of something to help. :)
> > 
> > My scripts copy all new non-spam to a ham directory which is fed to
> > sa-learn every night and then the contents of both the ham and the
> > spam directories are deleted.
> 
> IIRC, it seems pointless feeding your mail through a spam filter
> if you're downloading it from your ISP/email provider.

I think you are assuming the ISP provides a spam filtering service and
you are happy to entrust the deletion of your mail to it.

Is running spamassin on a home server a waste? (was ... Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth)

[cbannister]

On Sat, Apr 23, 2016 at 12:57:08PM -0500, John Hasler wrote:
> > Thanks for making me think of that and the fact that over the last 10
> > years, the only ham its seen are its mistakes. So this question might
> > have had the seeds of something to help. :)
> 
> My scripts copy all new non-spam to a ham directory which is fed to
> sa-learn every night and then the contents of both the ham and the
> spam directories are deleted.

IIRC, it seems pointless feeding your mail through a spam filter
if you're downloading it from your ISP/email provider.

-- 
The media's the most powerful entity on earth. 
They have the power to make the innocent guilty 
and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power.
 -- Malcolm X

Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth

[John Hasler]

Gene writes:
> But thats a good idea for genuine ham, but so much crap gets thru I'd
> still have to go thru it and clean it up before sa-learn saw it.  Its
> a thankless task for sure.

I have Mailagent delete all high-scoring spam so that I never see it
all.  Low-scoring spam is sorted to my spam folder by Gnus.  When
Spamassassin is working well there are only half a dozen of those a day
so it's easy to review them all and put them where they belong if they
aren't spam.  I see maybe one or two untagged spams a day: I move those
to the spam folder where sa-learn will see them.

Mailagent also has a whitelist and a blacklist.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 23 April 2016 13:57:08 John Hasler wrote:

> > Thanks for making me think of that and the fact that over the last
> > 10 years, the only ham its seen are its mistakes. So this question
> > might have had the seeds of something to help. :)
>
> My scripts copy all new non-spam to a ham directory which is fed to
> sa-learn every night and then the contents of both the ham and the
> spam directories are deleted.

Humm, I don't delete the ham, but drag & drop it to whatever folder it 
goes to after its spent a day or so in the ham directory. I move the 
detected spam to a spam-hold directory in case I neglect to check for a 
day as its catching the order confirmations from ebay because ebay just 
has to use 99% of the confirmation message to sell more usually 
unrelated crap, and that spam-hold is deleted on the next sa-learn run.  
But thats a good idea for genuine ham, but so much crap gets thru I'd 
still have to go thru it and clean it up before sa-learn saw it.
Its a thankless task for sure.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 23 April 2016 13:01:33 Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Saturday 23 April 2016 10:35:12 John Hasler wrote:
> > Gene writes:
> > > Spamassassin, after several years of being fed all of that stuff
> > > via a daily sa-learn -spam command on that resting directory,
> > > still only catches 10% of it.
> >
> > Interesting.  For me it catches 90%.  Do you feed it both spam and
> > ham?
>
> I feed it ham by moving stuff it should catch to the ham directory so
Ancient fingers! should s/b shouldn't above.
> its treated as ham on the next runs of sa-learn.  I could add a weekly
> sa-learn --ham session, nameing one or more of the cleaner folders
> from the mailing lists I suppose.  It was initially run over my
> cleaned up coco folder, which is several gigabytes of quite clean ham.
>  The initial run was many years ago.  Or, I suppose, I could use an
> int rnd(number of good folders) and the a stack of ifelses to do a
> name substitution based on the number and have it read them all at
> random intervals.
>
> I should restrict the number of folders to those that I do have expiry
> times set on though.  Not all folders have expiry setup.  Those that I
> have primary interests in are here until I have an HD crash and no
> backups.  Since I run amanda every night, using a second HD as virtual
> tapes, that chance ranges from slim to point triple ought zip.  I may
> have the last blackout first at my age. :(
>
> ATM I'm making parts for my mill on my lathe for another project that
> will triple the speed of the z axis on my mill, but there may be a
> down time before those replacement motor and driver parts all arrive
> in the next 2 weeks or so when I can slice up some bash code to do
> that.
>
> Thanks for making me think of that and the fact that over the last 10
> years, the only ham its seen are its mistakes. So this question might
> have had the seeds of something to help. :)
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth

[John Hasler]

> Thanks for making me think of that and the fact that over the last 10
> years, the only ham its seen are its mistakes. So this question might
> have had the seeds of something to help. :)

My scripts copy all new non-spam to a ham directory which is fed to
sa-learn every night and then the contents of both the ham and the
spam directories are deleted.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth

[Nicolas George]

Le quintidi 5 floréal, an CCXXIV, Gene Heskett a écrit :
> I feed it ham by moving stuff it should catch to the ham directory so its 
> treated as ham on the next runs of sa-learn.  I could add a weekly 
> sa-learn --ham session, nameing one or more of the cleaner folders from 
> the mailing lists I suppose.  It was initially run over my cleaned up 
> coco folder, which is several gigabytes of quite clean ham.  The initial 
> run was many years ago.  Or, I suppose, I could use an int rnd(number of 
> good folders) and the a stack of ifelses to do a name substitution based 
> on the number and have it read them all at random intervals.

AFAIK, the best of training a Bayesian filter is to feed it contents that is
typical of what it has to classify, and in particular spam and ham in the
same ratio as what you receive. Also, beware if there are some kind of mails
that you want to receive but never archive (for example notifications),
since you may never teach the filter to recognize them as ham.

OTOH, feeding enough ham is necessary to avoid false-positives. This
sub-thread was about false-negatives, IIRC.

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 23 April 2016 10:35:12 John Hasler wrote:

> Gene writes:
> > Spamassassin, after several years of being fed all of that stuff via
> > a daily sa-learn -spam command on that resting directory, still only
> > catches 10% of it.
>
> Interesting.  For me it catches 90%.  Do you feed it both spam and
> ham?

I feed it ham by moving stuff it should catch to the ham directory so its 
treated as ham on the next runs of sa-learn.  I could add a weekly 
sa-learn --ham session, nameing one or more of the cleaner folders from 
the mailing lists I suppose.  It was initially run over my cleaned up 
coco folder, which is several gigabytes of quite clean ham.  The initial 
run was many years ago.  Or, I suppose, I could use an int rnd(number of 
good folders) and the a stack of ifelses to do a name substitution based 
on the number and have it read them all at random intervals.

I should restrict the number of folders to those that I do have expiry 
times set on though.  Not all folders have expiry setup.  Those that I 
have primary interests in are here until I have an HD crash and no 
backups.  Since I run amanda every night, using a second HD as virtual 
tapes, that chance ranges from slim to point triple ought zip.  I may 
have the last blackout first at my age. :(

ATM I'm making parts for my mill on my lathe for another project that 
will triple the speed of the z axis on my mill, but there may be a down 
time before those replacement motor and driver parts all arrive in the 
next 2 weeks or so when I can slice up some bash code to do that.

Thanks for making me think of that and the fact that over the last 10 
years, the only ham its seen are its mistakes. So this question might 
have had the seeds of something to help. :)

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth

[John Hasler]

Gene writes:
> Spamassassin, after several years of being fed all of that stuff via a 
> daily sa-learn -spam command on that resting directory, still only 
> catches 10% of it.

Interesting.  For me it catches 90%.  Do you feed it both spam and ham?
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth

[Andrew McGlashan]

On 23/04/2016 10:33 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Saturday 23 April 2016 07:52:06 Curt wrote:
>> http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/10915
>>
>> works fine here.

Yes, other pages worked fine too.

> I finally did get to the article, but had to clear it with privacy badger 
> and ghostery and no-script was already disabled. I have no clue what 
> their cookies send back, but I printed it so I don't have to go thru 
> that folderol again.  The sign up overlay never did fully render. But it 
> had a close button that worked.

I had the same behaviour exactly.

I use uBlock Origin, Disconnect mostly.  PrivacyBadger gave me too much
trouble and I don't trust Noscript -- in Noscript's place, I use
Policeman and find it has better lock down controls.

> At one point, Privacy Badger was reporting 9 trackers, and Ghostery was 
> blocking 24 data suckers. Noscript wasn't blocking anything as its been 
> disabled for weeks.

Yep, and web developers or their bosses couldn't seem to care less how
much garbage they force upon us.  They are now worse than used car
salesmen, just like SEO /scumbags/ ...S

Cheers
AndrewM



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Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 23 April 2016 08:44:56 Lisi Reisz wrote:

> On Saturday 23 April 2016 13:33:54 Gene Heskett wrote:
> > The data these sites collect and sell, gets me 100 new spams every
> > day. 20 or 30 of for erectile disfunction cures that don't work.
> >  I'm 81, and been diabetic for 25 + years, I couldn't reset my since
> > counter if it was offered.  I don't have a place to put a hot tub,
> > and my garage floor is bare cement & gonna stay that way. I don't
> > need a DUI attorney, or the next great diabetes cure. Give me a
> > break.
>
> I keep being offered pills to increase the size/functionality of a
> part of my anatomy that doesn't exist.  My spam checker infallibly
> removes the offers.

Spamassassin, after several years of being fed all of that stuff via a 
daily sa-learn -spam command on that resting directory, still only 
catches 10% of it.

> The odd thing is that my husband, being in full possession of the
> relevant part of his anatomy, doesn't get any.
>
> I get lots of "young ladies" soliciting for my affections too.
>
> The spam writers obviously know something about me that I don't know
> about myself.

Gee.  I could let my imagination run wild and still not come up with a 
valid answer.  The image you project is that of an experienced lady, 
with poor eyesight you have worked around quite well, and generally a 
pleasant person to be around, and thats worth more than an 11 at closing 
time. :)

Take Care girl.

> >  I printed it so I don't have to go thru that folderol again.
>
> Bin them, Gene.  And save yourself the folderol.
>
> Lisi


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth

[Lisi Reisz]

On Saturday 23 April 2016 13:33:54 Gene Heskett wrote:
> The data these sites collect and sell, gets me 100 new spams every day.
> 20 or 30 of for erectile disfunction cures that don't work.  I'm 81, and
> been diabetic for 25 + years, I couldn't reset my since counter if it
> was offered.  I don't have a place to put a hot tub, and my garage floor
> is bare cement & gonna stay that way. I don't need a DUI attorney, or
> the next great diabetes cure. Give me a break.

I keep being offered pills to increase the size/functionality of a part of my 
anatomy that doesn't exist.  My spam checker infallibly removes the offers.

The odd thing is that my husband, being in full possession of the relevant 
part of his anatomy, doesn't get any.

I get lots of "young ladies" soliciting for my affections too.

The spam writers obviously know something about me that I don't know about 
myself.

>  I printed it so I don't have to go thru that folderol again. 

Bin them, Gene.  And save yourself the folderol.  

Lisi

Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 23 April 2016 07:52:06 Curt wrote:

> On 2016-04-23, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > I was blocked, 5 times so far, at the front page of the current
> > issue.  I could poke around in the 4 sale areas, but could not
> > access any other content, such as that sublink without signing up.
>
> I was taken to the regular old front page too (probably because
> shawn's m-dot URL is optimized for smartphones and they sense I ain't
> no smartphone), but once at the front page I tacked on the
> '/article/10915' part and away I went.
>
> In other words,
>
> http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/10915
>
> works fine here.
>
> Other front page links (I tried two) work fine for me also.
>
> ICIWYMWV
??

I finally did get to the article, but had to clear it with privacy badger 
and ghostery and no-script was already disabled. I have no clue what 
their cookies send back, but I printed it so I don't have to go thru 
that folderol again.  The sign up overlay never did fully render. But it 
had a close button that worked.

At one point, Privacy Badger was reporting 9 trackers, and Ghostery was 
blocking 24 data suckers. Noscript wasn't blocking anything as its been 
disabled for weeks.

The data these sites collect and sell, gets me 100 new spams every day. 
20 or 30 of for erectile disfunction cures that don't work.  I'm 81, and 
been diabetic for 25 + years, I couldn't reset my since counter if it 
was offered.  I don't have a place to put a hot tub, and my garage floor 
is bare cement & gonna stay that way. I don't need a DUI attorney, or 
the next great diabetes cure. Give me a break.

> Tallyho,
>
> Curt
>
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth

[Richard Owlett]

On 4/23/2016 6:52 AM, Curt wrote:

On 2016-04-23, Gene Heskett  wrote:


I was blocked, 5 times so far, at the front page of the current issue.  I
could poke around in the 4 sale areas, but could not access any other
content, such as that sublink without signing up.


I was taken to the regular old front page too (probably because shawn's
m-dot URL is optimized for smartphones and they sense I ain't no
smartphone), but once at the front page I tacked on the '/article/10915'
part and away I went.

In other words,

http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/10915

works fine here.



Works fine for me using SeaMonkey under WinXP [Debian machine 
down at moment]

Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth

[Curt]

On 2016-04-23, Gene Heskett  wrote:
>
> I was blocked, 5 times so far, at the front page of the current issue.  I 
> could poke around in the 4 sale areas, but could not access any other 
> content, such as that sublink without signing up.

I was taken to the regular old front page too (probably because shawn's
m-dot URL is optimized for smartphones and they sense I ain't no
smartphone), but once at the front page I tacked on the '/article/10915'
part and away I went.

In other words,

http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/10915

works fine here.

Other front page links (I tried two) work fine for me also.

ICIWYMWV

Tallyho, 

Curt

> Cheers, Gene Heskett


-- 
Hypertext--or should I say the ideology of hypertext?--is ultrademocratic and
so entirely in harmony with the demagogic appeals to cultural democracy that
accompany (and distract one’s attention from) the ever-tightening grip of 
plutocratic capitalism. - Susan Sontag

Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth

[shawn wilson]

On Apr 23, 2016 06:27, "Reco"  wrote:
>
> On Sat, 23 Apr 2016 10:23:57 +0100
> Joe  wrote:
>

> > 'Proper' serial equipment
> > typically does not go higher than 115kBd, and most wired serial
> > applications need much less than that.
>
> But serial-over-bluetooth gets me 0.5 Mbps :)
>

Being able to teacher when connected to either cell *or* wifi from a non
rooted android device (like if paying for a single MAC address on a plane)
might be a good enough reason to set it up. And in those situations, you're
not getting optimal bandwidth anyway.

Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth

[Andy Smith]

Hi Peter,

On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 08:27:38PM -0700, pe...@easthope.ca wrote:
> …TCP/IP inside PPP on a Bluetooth connection is hypthetically
> possible.
> 
> Has anyone tried it with a debian system on one end at least?

Yes; around 4 years ago I used to occasionally pair my Nokia E90 and
use it as a Bluetooth network device. That was with NetworkManager
under GNOME. I seem to recall it was detected without me needing to
configure anything (apart from the pairing), and it mostly worked,
although it was quite slow.

Since then I've switched to an Android phone and find either USB
tether or wifi access point performs better and are more reliable. I
see it still offers Bluetooth tethering but I've never wanted to
use it.

Cheers,
Andy

-- 
http://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

> The optimum programming team size is 1.
Has Jurassic Park taught us nothing? — pfilandr

Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 23 April 2016 03:36:48 Lisi Reisz wrote:

> On Saturday 23 April 2016 06:04:24 Gene Heskett wrote:
> > Unforch for many, its also a link you have to subscribe to
>
> No you don't. I've just tried.
>
> You can, if you wish, once there, become a subscriber to the digital
> version of the magazine.
>
> Lisi

I was blocked, 5 times so far, at the front page of the current issue.  I 
could poke around in the 4 sale areas, but could not access any other 
content, such as that sublink without signing up.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth

[Reco]

On Sat, 23 Apr 2016 10:23:57 +0100
Joe  wrote:

> On Sat, 23 Apr 2016 10:53:08 +0300
> Reco  wrote:
> 
> > Hi.
> > 
> > On Fri, 22 Apr 2016 20:27:38 -0700
> > pe...@easthope.ca wrote:
> > 
> > > According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth ,
> > > Bluetooth was "... originally conceived as a wireless alternative 
> > > to RS-232 data cables."  Therefore TCP/IP inside PPP on a 
> > > Bluetooth connection is hypthetically possible.
> > > 
> > > Has anyone tried it with a debian system on one end at least?  
> > 
> > I have to use the thing on a regular basis. Connection speed is
> > turtle-slow by today's standards, 
> > 
> 
> If you need lots of bandwidth, there's wifi. 

If I really need the bandwidth, I won't settle for anything less than
1Gbps ethernet. Such thing is not always available though.

> 'Proper' serial equipment
> typically does not go higher than 115kBd, and most wired serial
> applications need much less than that.

But serial-over-bluetooth gets me 0.5 Mbps :)

Reco

Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth

[Joe]

On Sat, 23 Apr 2016 10:53:08 +0300
Reco  wrote:

>   Hi.
> 
> On Fri, 22 Apr 2016 20:27:38 -0700
> pe...@easthope.ca wrote:
> 
> > According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth ,
> > Bluetooth was "... originally conceived as a wireless alternative 
> > to RS-232 data cables."  Therefore TCP/IP inside PPP on a 
> > Bluetooth connection is hypthetically possible.
> > 
> > Has anyone tried it with a debian system on one end at least?  
> 
> I have to use the thing on a regular basis. Connection speed is
> turtle-slow by today's standards, 
> 

If you need lots of bandwidth, there's wifi. 'Proper' serial equipment
typically does not go higher than 115kBd, and most wired serial
applications need much less than that. Sony's camera control protocol
at 562.5kBd is very unusual, and a pig to route wirelessly.

-- 
Joe

Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth

[Reco]

Hi.

On Fri, 22 Apr 2016 20:27:38 -0700
pe...@easthope.ca wrote:

> According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth ,
> Bluetooth was "... originally conceived as a wireless alternative 
> to RS-232 data cables."  Therefore TCP/IP inside PPP on a 
> Bluetooth connection is hypthetically possible.
> 
> Has anyone tried it with a debian system on one end at least?

I have to use the thing on a regular basis. Connection speed is
turtle-slow by today's standards, but it works, and aside from the
bluez package it only requires wvdial one.

A sample implementation is:

# cat /etc/network/if-pre-up.ppp0
/usr/bin/rfcomm connect /dev/rfcomm0 xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx &
while [ ! -r /dev/rfcomm0 ]; do
/bin/echo "Waiting for /dev/rfcomm0 ..."
/bin/sleep 1
done

# cat /etc/network/if-post-down.ppp0
pkill -9 rfcomm

# grep -A1 ppp0 /etc/network/interfaces
iface ppp0 inet wvdial
pre-up /etc/network/if-pre-up.ppp0
metric 1
post-down /etc/network/if-post-down.ppp0

# cat /etc/wvdial.conf
[Dialer Defaults]
Baud = 460800
Dial Command = ATD
Init1 = ATZ
Init2 = ATQ0 V1 E1 S0=0   +FCLASS=0
Init3 = AT+CGDCONT=1,"IP","my.cellphone.carrier.gateway"
Modem = /dev/rfcomm0
Modem Type = Analog Modem
New PPD = yes
Password = xxx
Phone = *99#
Username = xxx
ISDN = false
Idle Seconds = 300

Reco

Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth

[Lisi Reisz]

On Saturday 23 April 2016 06:04:24 Gene Heskett wrote:
> Unforch for many, its also a link you have to subscribe to

No you don't. I've just tried.

You can, if you wish, once there, become a subscriber to the digital version 
of the magazine.

Lisi

Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 23 April 2016 00:37:42 shawn wilson wrote:

> On Apr 23, 2016 00:09,  wrote:
> > According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth ,
> > Bluetooth was "... originally conceived as a wireless alternative
> > to RS-232 data cables."  Therefore TCP/IP inside PPP on a
> > Bluetooth connection is hypthetically possible.
> >
> > Has anyone tried it with a debian system on one end at least?
>
> Google it? It appears to work fine now days - maybe issues with
> NetworkManager though - idk. But no I haven't setup PAN, just 1 minute
> (literally) with Google tells me this.
>
> If you want a link to read, this looks good (though a bit dated):
> http://m.linuxjournal.com/article/10915

Unforch for many, its also a link you have to subscribe to, possibly with 
an accompanying fee to pay to access it. I value what little privacy I 
have left.  I'm also on SS and need to watch my cash flow.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth

[shawn wilson]

On Apr 23, 2016 00:09,  wrote:
>
> According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth ,
> Bluetooth was "... originally conceived as a wireless alternative
> to RS-232 data cables."  Therefore TCP/IP inside PPP on a
> Bluetooth connection is hypthetically possible.
>
> Has anyone tried it with a debian system on one end at least?
>

Google it? It appears to work fine now days - maybe issues with
NetworkManager though - idk. But no I haven't setup PAN, just 1 minute
(literally) with Google tells me this.

If you want a link to read, this looks good (though a bit dated):
http://m.linuxjournal.com/article/10915

TCP/IP over Bluetooth

[peter]

According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth ,
Bluetooth was "... originally conceived as a wireless alternative 
to RS-232 data cables."  Therefore TCP/IP inside PPP on a 
Bluetooth connection is hypthetically possible.

Has anyone tried it with a debian system on one end at least?

Thanks,   ... Peter E.

-- 
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Tel +1 360 639 0202 
http://easthope.ca/Peter.html Bcc: peter at easthope. ca