Re: IMAP vs POP was Thunderbird vs Claws Mail

[David Wright]

On Sat 18 Nov 2023 at 08:58:41 (-0800), Peter Ehlert wrote:
> thread back from the dead:
> first, thanks for all of the input and wise suggestions
> 
> I am going crazy with Thunderbird, and Claws too.
> Now Claws has a calendar add-on, did not try it but maybe it will suffice.
> 
> My longtime web and email host support have been struggling to help
> me, Kudos to webmasters dot com
> 
> IMP vs POP ...the "web" seems to reverse the definitions! I don't know
> who to trust
> 
> I really want to keep messages on their server, space is Not an issue.
> 
> Question: with IMAP is it feasible for a mail client to Leave messages
> on the server?

Well, sorting by Date, mutt lists your post at position:

  33858   L  231118   Peter Ehlert   (1.2K) Re: IMAP vs POP was 
Thunderbird vs Claws Mail

out of a total of 33910 on the server (in the UK). The posts are also
all on this machine here:

  ~/.cache/mutt/imaps:a...@def.co.uk@GHI.co.uk:993/INBOX$ ls -1 | wc -l
  35700
  ~/.cache/mutt/imaps:a...@def.co.uk@GHI.co.uk:993/INBOX$ du -sh
  630M.
  ~/.cache/mutt/imaps:a...@def.co.uk@GHI.co.uk:993/INBOX$ 

(Some posts in my cache are orphaned, for straightforward reasons
I won't bother to explain here.)

Cheers,
David.

Re: IMAP vs POP was Thunderbird vs Claws Mail

[Brad Rogers]

On Mon, 20 Nov 2023 10:15:56 -0600
Mike McClain  wrote:

Hello Mike,

>A second item that's slightly off topic, I've had no luck setting
>up claws-mail to send out through frontier.net and if anyone knows how
>to do that I'd appreciate the claws-mail setup for it.

Without knowing what you've done, or what errors you receive I can only
suggest you start here;

https://help.yahoo.com/kb/frontier/SLN3792.html?guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9kdWNrZHVja2dvLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAG4cywIUVM3DYW6VMJeB1xaQhcvotPg06bOVj7Tb3448LcW98YDlSSI1OkiM4pvd7XeUtYcONDXOfK3QNQo_2RENbJHWxu886aFSXyIIQOiwej-BaH-m5hkpIaUvRM8FMziZ13JvH-SstaPrJrRhlHTSNJCzv_R7CSAdhJOhI-Ql&_guc_consent_skip=1700504498

Specifically the part Verify POP or IMAP settings.

-- 
 Regards  _   "Valid sig separator is {dash}{dash}{space}"
 / )  "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent"
/ _)rad   "Is it only me that has a working delete key?"
You can't go in if you don't look right
Outlaw - Chron Gen


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Re: IMAP vs POP was Thunderbird vs Claws Mail

[Roy J. Tellason, Sr.]

On Monday 20 November 2023 11:15:56 am Mike McClain wrote:
>  Seeing several messages complaining about fetching messages from
> gmail.com I'd like to point out that gmail can be set to forward all
> messages to a gmail account to another account on a different server.

That's exactly what I'm doing here...

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin

Re: IMAP vs POP was Thunderbird vs Claws Mail

[Tixy]

On Mon, 2023-11-20 at 10:15 -0600, Mike McClain wrote:
> Seeing several messages complaining about fetching messages from
> gmail.com I'd like to point out that gmail can be set to forward all
> messages to a gmail account to another account on a different server.
> I saw a message making that point several years ago,

I'm sure I've mentioned that here before. I did it in my last job as my
employer used Google for mail, so I just forwarded everything to an
email account on my email server at home.

-- 
Tixy

Re: IMAP vs POP was Thunderbird vs Claws Mail

[Mike McClain]

Seeing several messages complaining about fetching messages from
gmail.com I'd like to point out that gmail can be set to forward all
messages to a gmail account to another account on a different server.
I saw a message making that point several years ago, probably here,
and seldom log into gmail but get all messages sent to my gmail
accounts by others.

A second item that's slightly off topic, I've had no luck setting
up claws-mail to send out through frontier.net and if anyone knows how
to do that I'd appreciate the claws-mail setup for it.

Thanks,
Mike
--
Telling pious lies to trusting children is a form of abuse,
plain and simple. - Daniel Dennett, 2010-01-12

Re: IMAP vs POP was Thunderbird vs Claws Mail

[Darac Marjal]

On 19/11/2023 17:50, Tixy wrote:

On Sun, 2023-11-19 at 07:58 -0800, Peter Ehlert wrote:

Question: with IMAP is it feasible for a mail client to Leave
messages
on the server?

My question was incomplete.  I should have added that I must have
local
copies of almost everything, for Me to filter an purge.
--- > So you folks discussing IMAP made it super clear that POP is my
only choice. < ---

I don't see why you need POP to filter email. Your email client will
almost certainly let you create filters to process and delete emails.
E.g. I use IMAP with Evolution mail client and have various filters for
spam and kill files. Amongst the many filter options is the ability to
pipe new messages to an external program and the perform actions on the
result. That's how I implement killfiles for this email list, I have a
bash script to match email headers against a kill list and then if my
script returns 'true' I have evolution set to delete them.


Depending on your IMAP server, you may even be able to use "Sieve" 
scripts to perform the filtering on the server (i.e. before you even 
download the messages to a client). Sieve scripts can look at headers 
and bodies, so you can do simple things like "Messages from my family 
get moved to the 'Family' folder", "messages with a subject that 
contains 'debian-user' get moved to the 'debian-user' folder", to more 
complicated things like "auto reply to subscription-confirmation emails".






OpenPGP_signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: IMAP vs POP was Thunderbird vs Claws Mail

[Tixy]

On Sun, 2023-11-19 at 07:58 -0800, Peter Ehlert wrote:
> > Question: with IMAP is it feasible for a mail client to Leave
> > messages 
> > on the server?
> My question was incomplete.  I should have added that I must have
> local 
> copies of almost everything, for Me to filter an purge.
> --- > So you folks discussing IMAP made it super clear that POP is my
> only choice. < ---

I don't see why you need POP to filter email. Your email client will
almost certainly let you create filters to process and delete emails.
E.g. I use IMAP with Evolution mail client and have various filters for
spam and kill files. Amongst the many filter options is the ability to
pipe new messages to an external program and the perform actions on the
result. That's how I implement killfiles for this email list, I have a
bash script to match email headers against a kill list and then if my
script returns 'true' I have evolution set to delete them.

-- 
Tixy

Re: IMAP vs POP was Thunderbird vs Claws Mail

[Peter Ehlert]

On 11/18/23 08:58, Peter Ehlert wrote:

thread back from the dead:
first, thanks for all of the input and wise suggestions

I am going crazy with Thunderbird, and Claws too.
Now Claws has a calendar add-on, did not try it but maybe it will 
suffice.


My longtime web and email host support have been struggling to help 
me, Kudos to webmasters dot com



the Kudos was premature. they provided unclear/wrong instructions.
I said screw it and did "the wrong thing" and expected to loose the 
copious pent-up messages,  but it Did Work. I'm good.
IMP vs POP ...the "web" seems to reverse the definitions! I don't know 
who to trust


I really want to keep messages on their server, space is Not an issue.

Question: with IMAP is it feasible for a mail client to Leave messages 
on the server?
My question was incomplete.  I should have added that I must have local 
copies of almost everything, for Me to filter an purge.
--- > So you folks discussing IMAP made it super clear that POP is my 
only choice. < ---

thanks!


On 8/15/23 09:43, Peter Ehlert wrote:



I am a long time user of Thunderbird. No real complaints, but the GUI 
has been slowly been changed.
lately I have been struggling with that, trying to get it to be My 
Way. Minor success.
Tbird still sucks in several ways. However the many alternatives suck 
worse in my opinion. Old dogs and all of that.


also the .msf files have gotten Huge and that hinders rapid and easy 
backups.


In the process I would like to do some housekeeping, fix a few 
filters and rearrange my copious folders.


Question: do you folks recommend migrating to Claws Mail?
the initial look and feel seems to be familiar and comfortable, but I 
know little of the history and stability.


secondly, will I be missing the basic features such as Filters?

thanks in advance.

Re: IMAP vs POP was Thunderbird vs Claws Mail

[peter ehlert]

pardon the top posting.
I made a minor change to the security settings that Webmasters omitted 
(or said Not to do) in their documentation for the security upgrades on 
their servers, and it's working again. a couple thousand messages to 
clean and sort, but my will filters do 97% of that.

 I will message their support and help them correct their error.
thanks for listening.
Peter Ehlert

On 11/18/23 09:06, peter ehlert wrote:

damn! I forgot... not able to receive on my POP mail accounts!
now using the hateful Gmail...
maybe that's why Thunderbird can't use a mailing list, they don't trust 
their own email app. Eff Them!


On 11/18/23 08:58, Peter Ehlert wrote:

thread back from the dead:
first, thanks for all of the input and wise suggestions

I am going crazy with Thunderbird, and Claws too.
Now Claws has a calendar add-on, did not try it but maybe it will 
suffice.


My longtime web and email host support have been struggling to help 
me, Kudos to webmasters dot com


IMP vs POP ...the "web" seems to reverse the definitions! I don't know 
who to trust


I really want to keep messages on their server, space is Not an issue.

Question: with IMAP is it feasible for a mail client to Leave messages 
on the server?


On 8/15/23 09:43, Peter Ehlert wrote:



I am a long time user of Thunderbird. No real complaints, but the GUI 
has been slowly been changed.
lately I have been struggling with that, trying to get it to be My 
Way. Minor success.


also the .msf files have gotten Huge and that hinders rapid and easy 
backups.


In the process I would like to do some housekeeping, fix a few 
filters and rearrange my copious folders.


Question: do you folks recommend migrating to Claws Mail?
the initial look and feel seems to be familiar and comfortable, but I 
know little of the history and stability.


secondly, will I be missing the basic features such as Filters?

thanks in advance.

Re: IMAP vs POP was Thunderbird vs Claws Mail

[Brad Rogers]

On Sun, 19 Nov 2023 11:57:03 +
Joe  wrote:

Hello Joe,

>On Sat, 18 Nov 2023 19:31:31 +
>Brad Rogers  wrote:
>> Can be altered in Prefs.
>>  Display; Summaries Message list tab "Mark message as read" section.
>Thank you. I never told it to do that.

I think (but don't quote me) it's the default in CM.  And with the large
number of settings, it's easy to miss it.

Took me a while to find the right section before responding to to your
post:
I *know* it's there somewhere..   :-l

-- 
 Regards  _   "Valid sig separator is {dash}{dash}{space}"
 / )  "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent"
/ _)rad   "Is it only me that has a working delete key?"
Does she always shout at you, does she tell you what to do
Family Life - Sham 69


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Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: IMAP vs POP was Thunderbird vs Claws Mail

[Brad Rogers]

On Sat, 18 Nov 2023 19:20:49 +
Joe  wrote:

Hello Joe,

>currently, selecting an email in the list marks it as read, which is not

Can be altered in Prefs.
 Display; Summaries Message list tab "Mark message as read" section.

-- 
 Regards  _   "Valid sig separator is {dash}{dash}{space}"
 / )  "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent"
/ _)rad   "Is it only me that has a working delete key?"
I can't do a thing 'cause I can't relax
Independence Day - Comsat Angels
 


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Re: IMAP vs POP was Thunderbird vs Claws Mail

[David Wright]

On Sun 19 Nov 2023 at 04:29:57 (+), Tim Woodall wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Nov 2023, Joe wrote:
> 
> > If this area is likely to be the issue, try telnet to the IMAP server
> > using port 143, you should get back a list of capabilities which may
> > help. Oddly, though I'm using port 993 to my local server, it does not
> > return any information from that port, only on 143. Presumably this is
> > to assist security.
> 
> I'd assume you need to use something like openssl s_client rather than
> telnet to port 993.

Sure, but you still need to know what to type (assuming that's what
you do), because it just sits there rather than blurting it all out:

  $ openssl s_client -starttls imap -crlf -connect lionunicorn.co.uk:993
  CONNECTED(0003)

and nothing happens until:

^C
130 $ 

OTOH, openssl to port 143 is a bit more informative.

Cheers,
David.

Re: IMAP vs POP was Thunderbird vs Claws Mail

[Tim Woodall]

On Sat, 18 Nov 2023, Joe wrote:


If this area is likely to be the issue, try telnet to the IMAP server
using port 143, you should get back a list of capabilities which may
help. Oddly, though I'm using port 993 to my local server, it does not
return any information from that port, only on 143. Presumably this is
to assist security.



I'd assume you need to use something like openssl s_client rather than
telnet to port 993.

Re: IMAP vs POP was Thunderbird vs Claws Mail

[jeremy ardley]

On 19/11/23 08:04, jeremy ardley wrote:


On 19/11/23 01:59, Alex wrote:
IMAP clients will therefore keep messages on the IMAP server and not 
delete them unless you specifically tell them to, for example via 
right-click -> delete. 



A client can also alter messages retained on a server or event insert 
new messages. This is interesting in computer forensics.


It means that if an email is on a server e.g. hotmail or gmail, it has 
no probative value unless supported by other evidence such as server 
records, digital signatures,  or corroborating evidence on other systems.


In my professional cyber-forensic practice I have tested just how much 
you can alter in an email on a server. The answer is essentially 
everything. All headers, dates, content etc.


Server records of email receipt are usually transient so after a few 
months they can no longer be used as corroboration.




Incidentally, I am using gmail for this list. They have made a recent(?) 
change so that an email that is sent to the debian list automatically 
gets a 'copy' in the inbox. In fact it's just a view of the sent email.


They then drop any copy received from the list, probably based on 
matching the email ID field (?)


From a forensic perspective, gmail only ever stores one copy of an 
email based on its email ID. The altering emails on the server trick 
involves creating a modified copy with a different ID field, deleting 
the original email and so removing its ID from gmail, then altering the 
ID of the copy to the original ID.

Re: IMAP vs POP was Thunderbird vs Claws Mail

[jeremy ardley]

On 19/11/23 01:59, Alex wrote:
IMAP clients will therefore keep messages on the IMAP server and not 
delete them unless you specifically tell them to, for example via 
right-click -> delete. 



A client can also alter messages retained on a server or event insert 
new messages. This is interesting in computer forensics.


It means that if an email is on a server e.g. hotmail or gmail, it has 
no probative value unless supported by other evidence such as server 
records, digital signatures,  or corroborating evidence on other systems.


In my professional cyber-forensic practice I have tested just how much 
you can alter in an email on a server. The answer is essentially 
everything. All headers, dates, content etc.


Server records of email receipt are usually transient so after a few 
months they can no longer be used as corroboration.

Re: IMAP vs POP was Thunderbird vs Claws Mail

[Charles Curley]

On Sat, 18 Nov 2023 19:20:49 +
Joe  wrote:

> Claws cannot compose HTML emails, which may be a showstopper for you.
> It can display HTML, though I always use plain text. If I really need
> to see HTML, such as when an unsubscribe link is buried in 100K of
> useless markup, I use a webmail client. I hate webmail.

Instead of the webmail client:

To the right of the message body, or just above it, you can see the
various parts of a MIME message. Right click (mouse 3, typically) on
the entry for the HTML part of the email. Click on "display as text".
That usually displays the link correctly.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: IMAP vs POP was Thunderbird vs Claws Mail

[Joe]

On Sat, 18 Nov 2023 08:58:41 -0800
Peter Ehlert  wrote:

> thread back from the dead:
> first, thanks for all of the input and wise suggestions
> 
> I am going crazy with Thunderbird, and Claws too.
> Now Claws has a calendar add-on, did not try it but maybe it will
> suffice.
> 
> My longtime web and email host support have been struggling to help
> me, Kudos to webmasters dot com
> 
> IMP vs POP ...the "web" seems to reverse the definitions! I don't
> know who to trust
> 
> I really want to keep messages on their server, space is Not an issue.
> 
> Question: with IMAP is it feasible for a mail client to Leave
> messages on the server?

Yes, IMAP is server-oriented, POP3 is single-client oriented. It's not
unusual for me to have my IMAP account open in more than one client
simultaneously.

If you're having problems, it may be to do with the email policy in use
at the server, mostly password authentication.

Standard IMAP port is 143, encrypted is 993 though often 143 will also
accept encryption.

If this area is likely to be the issue, try telnet to the IMAP server
using port 143, you should get back a list of capabilities which may
help. Oddly, though I'm using port 993 to my local server, it does not
return any information from that port, only on 143. Presumably this is
to assist security.

$ telnet myserver 143
Trying 192.168.xx.yy
Connected to myserver.
Escape character is '^]'.
* OK [CAPABILITY IMAP4rev1 LITERAL+ SASL-IR LOGIN-REFERRALS ID ENABLE
IDLE STARTTLS AUTH=PLAIN] Dovecot ready.

Any mention of SSL, TLS or AUTH is likely to be important.

> 
> On 8/15/23 09:43, Peter Ehlert wrote:
> >
> >
> > I am a long time user of Thunderbird. No real complaints, but the
> > GUI has been slowly been changed.
> > lately I have been struggling with that, trying to get it to be My 
> > Way. Minor success.
> >
> > also the .msf files have gotten Huge and that hinders rapid and
> > easy backups.
> >
> > In the process I would like to do some housekeeping, fix a few
> > filters and rearrange my copious folders.
> >
> > Question: do you folks recommend migrating to Claws Mail?
> > the initial look and feel seems to be familiar and comfortable, but
> > I know little of the history and stability.

It goes back a couple of decades, and was originally a fork of
Sylpheed, which also still exists.

I've used it for at least five years, when I started to find TB too
bloated and slow. I never used its calendar, I have an SQL-based
calendar. 

Claws gets occasional bugs, irritating rather than serious e.g.
currently, selecting an email in the list marks it as read, which is not
always what I want, and is not normal behaviour. IMAP does folders,
something that POP3 clients simulate but which really exist on an IMAP
server, and I often want to drag an email to a folder while leaving it
marked unread. It will get fixed.

> >
> > secondly, will I be missing the basic features such as Filters?

No, I'm using quite a lot of filters on two Usenet groups in mine.

Claws cannot compose HTML emails, which may be a showstopper for you.
It can display HTML, though I always use plain text. If I really need
to see HTML, such as when an unsubscribe link is buried in 100K of
useless markup, I use a webmail client. I hate webmail.

-- 
Joe

Re: IMAP vs POP was Thunderbird vs Claws Mail

[Alex]

On Sat, 18 Nov 2023 08:58:41 -0800
Peter Ehlert  wrote:

> Question: with IMAP is it feasible for a mail client to Leave
> messages on the server?

That's why IMAP exists to begin with. IMAP was made to make it possible
for multiple clients to manage the same mailbox[1].

IMAP clients will therefore keep messages on the IMAP server and not
delete them unless you specifically tell them to, for example via
right-click -> delete.


[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMAP
-- 
Current PGP KeyID: 0AFB427F1800FD89751C4035292228735AE707FF

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Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: IMAP vs POP was Thunderbird vs Claws Mail

[peter ehlert]

damn! I forgot... not able to receive on my POP mail accounts!
now using the hateful Gmail...
maybe that's why Thunderbird can't use a mailing list, they don't trust 
their own email app. Eff Them!


On 11/18/23 08:58, Peter Ehlert wrote:

thread back from the dead:
first, thanks for all of the input and wise suggestions

I am going crazy with Thunderbird, and Claws too.
Now Claws has a calendar add-on, did not try it but maybe it will 
suffice.


My longtime web and email host support have been struggling to help 
me, Kudos to webmasters dot com


IMP vs POP ...the "web" seems to reverse the definitions! I don't know 
who to trust


I really want to keep messages on their server, space is Not an issue.

Question: with IMAP is it feasible for a mail client to Leave messages 
on the server?


On 8/15/23 09:43, Peter Ehlert wrote:



I am a long time user of Thunderbird. No real complaints, but the GUI 
has been slowly been changed.
lately I have been struggling with that, trying to get it to be My 
Way. Minor success.


also the .msf files have gotten Huge and that hinders rapid and easy 
backups.


In the process I would like to do some housekeeping, fix a few 
filters and rearrange my copious folders.


Question: do you folks recommend migrating to Claws Mail?
the initial look and feel seems to be familiar and comfortable, but I 
know little of the history and stability.


secondly, will I be missing the basic features such as Filters?

thanks in advance.

Re: IMAP vs POP was Thunderbird vs Claws Mail

[Peter Ehlert]

thread back from the dead:
first, thanks for all of the input and wise suggestions

I am going crazy with Thunderbird, and Claws too.
Now Claws has a calendar add-on, did not try it but maybe it will suffice.

My longtime web and email host support have been struggling to help me, 
Kudos to webmasters dot com


IMP vs POP ...the "web" seems to reverse the definitions! I don't know 
who to trust


I really want to keep messages on their server, space is Not an issue.

Question: with IMAP is it feasible for a mail client to Leave messages 
on the server?


On 8/15/23 09:43, Peter Ehlert wrote:



I am a long time user of Thunderbird. No real complaints, but the GUI 
has been slowly been changed.
lately I have been struggling with that, trying to get it to be My 
Way. Minor success.


also the .msf files have gotten Huge and that hinders rapid and easy 
backups.


In the process I would like to do some housekeeping, fix a few filters 
and rearrange my copious folders.


Question: do you folks recommend migrating to Claws Mail?
the initial look and feel seems to be familiar and comfortable, but I 
know little of the history and stability.


secondly, will I be missing the basic features such as Filters?

thanks in advance.

Re: claws-mail

[Curt]

On 2023-11-13, Andreas Ronnquist  wrote:
>
> I believe gmail _requires_ OAUTH2 authorisation for "non-secure apps"
> nowadays - which is pretty much all apps except gmails own.

AFAIK, gmail still supports application-specific passwords.

Re: claws-mail

[Andreas Ronnquist]

On Mon, 13 Nov 2023 04:39:02 + (UTC),
mike.junk...@att.net wrote:

>I'm running bookworm on a Raspberry Pi 4b.
>mike@rpi4b3:~> uname -a  
>Linux MikesPI 6.1.0-rpi4-rpi-v8 #1 SMP PREEMPT Debian 1:6.1.54-1+rpt2 
>(2023-10-05) aarch64 GNU/Linux
>This install didn't include exim4, postfix or anything supplying sendmail 
> and fetchmail won't work without an MTA.
>    I've set up several accounts in claws-mail for email accounts at att.net 
> and gmail.com but so far haven't got them right to  the point that claws-mail 
> will collect mail from any of those accounts via POP mail.
>    I'd appreciate any suggestions on how to get claws-mail working, so far 
> the only suggestions I've gotten from the Raspberry Pi forum is to switch to 
> thunderbird.
>I don't understand how either will handle local email like comes from cron 
> or other system programs and I depend on several scripts to do daily checks 
> on the system which cron emails me about on my buster system which has exim4, 
> fetchmail and mutt installed. Obviously I can install those here too but 
> suspect if I get this system set up correctly it should perform similarly.
>
>Any advice appreciated.
>
>Thanks,
>Mike
>

I believe gmail _requires_ OAUTH2 authorisation for "non-secure apps"
nowadays - which is pretty much all apps except gmails own.

See https://www.claws-mail.org/faq/index.php/Oauth2 for how to set it
up (It's a bit complicated) - I have stopped using gmail with
claws-mail, and don't use gmail very much. (They do a very bad job at
following mail standards, which your problem is a good example of).

My suggestion is to use another mail provider if possible.

best
-- Andreas Rönnquist
mailingli...@gusnan.se
andr...@ronnquist.net

Re: claws-mail

[Karen Lewellen]

Jeff,
Karen  picking up the spool of this thread for a moment.
Can you share more on this claws email mailing list?
I suspect, but may be wrong, that the posters point is that  comparative 
factors impact preference.  support indeed, organizational preference, if 
one  is comfortable with imap etc.

Kare
returning the thread spool to you.



On Mon, 13 Nov 2023, Jeffrey Walton wrote:


On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 6:59 AM Brad Rogers  wrote:


On Mon, 13 Nov 2023 05:22:13 -0500
Jeffrey Walton  wrote:

Hello Jeffrey,


I seem to recall IMAP is a better choice than POP when using Claws.


It makes no difference.


To whom? The OP's problem, or hypothetically?


Many people prefer IMAP, certainly.  Equally, there are those that
prefer POP3 - myself among them.  Of course, with google, it's largely
academic;  They keep them all, anyway.


It might be a good idea to join the Claws-Mail mailing list. I think
you will find there is a difference in the level of support for POP3
and IMAP. There are usually several messages a month about the
differences.

Jeff

Re: claws-mail

[Brad Rogers]

On Mon, 13 Nov 2023 07:09:55 -0500
Jeffrey Walton  wrote:

Hello Jeffrey,

>> >I seem to recall IMAP is a better choice than POP when using Claws.  
>> It makes no difference.  
>To whom? The OP's problem, or hypothetically?

Sorry, I was not explicit;  No difference to CM.  POP3 and IMAP (etc,
etc.) are protocols CM handles well.  It also makes no difference to OP,
personal preference aside, of course.

>It might be a good idea to join the Claws-Mail mailing list. I think

Already on it.  Although I rarely post there these days.  Never when it
comes to setting up google;  I've never done it, so have no advice to
offer.  Other than 'Don't'   :-)

And you're right, there are often messages about setting CM up.  Most
often with google.  Those people usually expect things to 'just work'
and can get overwhelmed by CMs options.

Additionally, google don't make it easy to use software they don't
approve of (read: isn't theirs).

-- 
 Regards  _   "Valid sig separator is {dash}{dash}{space}"
 / )  "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent"
/ _)rad   "Is it only me that has a working delete key?"
People stare like they've seen a ghost
Titanic (My Over) Reaction - 999


pgp_2I6sODVKd.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: claws-mail

[Marco Moock]

Am 13.11.2023 um 07:09:55 Uhr schrieb Jeffrey Walton:

> It might be a good idea to join the Claws-Mail mailing list. I think
> you will find there is a difference in the level of support for POP3
> and IMAP. There are usually several messages a month about the
> differences.

Can you please tell us more about that?

IIRC both protocols are supported and thus they are different protocols
with different specification, they behave different.

Re: claws-mail

[Jeffrey Walton]

On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 6:59 AM Brad Rogers  wrote:
>
> On Mon, 13 Nov 2023 05:22:13 -0500
> Jeffrey Walton  wrote:
>
> Hello Jeffrey,
>
> >I seem to recall IMAP is a better choice than POP when using Claws.
>
> It makes no difference.

To whom? The OP's problem, or hypothetically?

> Many people prefer IMAP, certainly.  Equally, there are those that
> prefer POP3 - myself among them.  Of course, with google, it's largely
> academic;  They keep them all, anyway.

It might be a good idea to join the Claws-Mail mailing list. I think
you will find there is a difference in the level of support for POP3
and IMAP. There are usually several messages a month about the
differences.

Jeff

Re: claws-mail

[Brad Rogers]

On Mon, 13 Nov 2023 05:22:13 -0500
Jeffrey Walton  wrote:

Hello Jeffrey,

>I seem to recall IMAP is a better choice than POP when using Claws.

It makes no difference.

Many people prefer IMAP, certainly.  Equally, there are those that
prefer POP3 - myself among them.  Of course, with google, it's largely
academic;  They keep them all, anyway.

-- 
 Regards  _   "Valid sig separator is {dash}{dash}{space}"
 / )  "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent"
/ _)rad   "Is it only me that has a working delete key?"
You destroyed my confidence, you broke my nerve
Nervous Wreck - Radio Stars


pgp8eqz09FY6g.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: claws-mail

[Joe]

On Mon, 13 Nov 2023 05:22:13 -0500
Jeffrey Walton  wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 4:42 AM  wrote:
> >
> > I'm running bookworm on a Raspberry Pi 4b.  
> > mike@rpi4b3:~> uname -a  
> > Linux MikesPI 6.1.0-rpi4-rpi-v8 #1 SMP PREEMPT Debian
> > 1:6.1.54-1+rpt2 (2023-10-05) aarch64 GNU/Linux This install didn't
> > include exim4, postfix or anything supplying sendmail and fetchmail
> > won't work without an MTA. I've set up several accounts in
> > claws-mail for email accounts at att.net and gmail.com but so far
> > haven't got them right to  the point that claws-mail will collect
> > mail from any of those accounts via POP mail. I'd appreciate any
> > suggestions on how to get claws-mail working, so far the only
> > suggestions I've gotten from the Raspberry Pi forum is to switch to
> > thunderbird. I don't understand how either will handle local email
> > like comes from cron or other system programs and I depend on
> > several scripts to do daily checks on the system which cron emails
> > me about on my buster system which has exim4, fetchmail and mutt
> > installed. Obviously I can install those here too but suspect if I
> > get this system set up correctly it should perform similarly.
> >
> > Any advice appreciated.  
> 
> I seem to recall IMAP is a better choice than POP when using Claws.
> 
> Also see the CM wiki, and articles like
> <https://www.claws-mail.org/faq/index.php/Using_Claws_Mail_with_Gmail>.
> 

I use Claws, but from a local network IMAP server, using a network MTA.
I wouldn't have thought POP should behave very differently. Claws with
external accounts shouldn't need a local MTA, the SMTP server you have
configured for the account is the MTA, which Claws will talk to
directly.

I think you must have a local MTA for some system emails to work, but
there are very much simpler ones than exim4 to do that job. Someone
else can probably help here, as I have exim4 on all my Linux machines.

Thunderbird is a respectable email client but I find it very slow on
normal PCs, and it will be glacial on a Pi, even a 4. Whatever the
issue is which is stopping Claws may also affect TB. You got the TB
advice because it's what most people are familiar with, not because
it's any better for email than Claws. Having said that, TB has
connection parameters built in for the big, well-known email providers
such as Gmail and MS.

Something that is sometimes difficult in these encrypted days is
getting the right combination of ports and password protocols. The old
unencrypted connection to port 110 for POP3 probably doesn't work
anywhere now.

-- 
Joe

Re: claws-mail

[Jeffrey Walton]

On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 4:42 AM  wrote:
>
> I'm running bookworm on a Raspberry Pi 4b.
> mike@rpi4b3:~> uname -a
> Linux MikesPI 6.1.0-rpi4-rpi-v8 #1 SMP PREEMPT Debian 1:6.1.54-1+rpt2 
> (2023-10-05) aarch64 GNU/Linux
> This install didn't include exim4, postfix or anything supplying sendmail 
> and fetchmail won't work without an MTA.
> I've set up several accounts in claws-mail for email accounts at att.net 
> and gmail.com but so far haven't got them right to  the point that claws-mail 
> will collect mail from any of those accounts via POP mail.
> I'd appreciate any suggestions on how to get claws-mail working, so far 
> the only suggestions I've gotten from the Raspberry Pi forum is to switch to 
> thunderbird.
> I don't understand how either will handle local email like comes from 
> cron or other system programs and I depend on several scripts to do daily 
> checks on the system which cron emails me about on my buster system which has 
> exim4, fetchmail and mutt installed. Obviously I can install those here too 
> but suspect if I get this system set up correctly it should perform similarly.
>
> Any advice appreciated.

I seem to recall IMAP is a better choice than POP when using Claws.

Also see the CM wiki, and articles like
<https://www.claws-mail.org/faq/index.php/Using_Claws_Mail_with_Gmail>.

Jeff

Re: claws-mail

[Marco Moock]

Am 13.11.2023 um 04:39:02 Uhr schrieb mike.junk...@att.net:

> Linux MikesPI 6.1.0-rpi4-rpi-v8 #1 SMP PREEMPT Debian 1:6.1.54-1+rpt2
> (2023-10-05) aarch64 GNU/Linux This install didn't include exim4,
> postfix or anything supplying sendmail and fetchmail won't work
> without an MTA. I've set up several accounts in claws-mail for email
> accounts at att.net and gmail.com but so far haven't got them right
> to  the point that claws-mail will collect mail from any of those
> accounts via POP mail.

Claws mail directly supports IMAP, POP3, SMTP and NNTP without an MTA
or fetchmail installed.

You also don't need sendmail nor the sendmail command to send mail via
SMTP with Claws Mail.

Re: claws-mail

[Brad Rogers]

On Mon, 13 Nov 2023 04:39:02 + (UTC)
mike.junk...@att.net wrote:

Hello mike.junk...@att.net,

>I'd appreciate any suggestions on how to get claws-mail working

Head over to https://lists.claws-mail.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/users

Maybe even subscribe to their list.  Expect to have to give people some
useful information, like what error messages you receive and what version
of CM you're using.  The latter makes a difference, *especially* with
google because older versions won't do Oauth2.

Expect to have to do some work in CM and at google's site to enable
successful mail transfers to take place.  Other providers should be
easier to set up.

-- 
 Regards  _   "Valid sig separator is {dash}{dash}{space}"
 / )  "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent"
/ _)rad   "Is it only me that has a working delete key?"
Gary don't need his eyes to see, Gary and his eyes have parted company
Gary Gilmore's Eyes - The Adverts


pgpmIzDTBmcWe.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

claws-mail

[mike . junk . 46]

I'm running bookworm on a Raspberry Pi 4b.
mike@rpi4b3:~> uname -a
Linux MikesPI 6.1.0-rpi4-rpi-v8 #1 SMP PREEMPT Debian 1:6.1.54-1+rpt2 
(2023-10-05) aarch64 GNU/Linux
This install didn't include exim4, postfix or anything supplying sendmail 
and fetchmail won't work without an MTA.
I've set up several accounts in claws-mail for email accounts at att.net 
and gmail.com but so far haven't got them right to  the point that claws-mail 
will collect mail from any of those accounts via POP mail.
I'd appreciate any suggestions on how to get claws-mail working, so far the 
only suggestions I've gotten from the Raspberry Pi forum is to switch to 
thunderbird.
I don't understand how either will handle local email like comes from cron 
or other system programs and I depend on several scripts to do daily checks on 
the system which cron emails me about on my buster system which has exim4, 
fetchmail and mutt installed. Obviously I can install those here too but 
suspect if I get this system set up correctly it should perform similarly.

Any advice appreciated.

Thanks,
Mike

Re: Thunderbird vs Claws Mail

[Frank Lanitz]

Hi,

On 15.08.23 21:48, Russell L. Harris wrote:

Consider evolution.


Tried it. Used >6GB RAM.

.f


OpenPGP_signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Thunderbird vs Claws Mail

[Bret Busby]

On 19/8/23 21:49, Peter Ehlert wrote:








Claws mail has an official users mailing list, which, I believe, is 
hosted and administered by the application developer, who also answers 
queries on the list.


Thunderbird email has no official users mailing list, but has two 
unofficial users mailing lists, hosted on groups.io, with a different 
priority for each mailing list, and, each of those lists, is run by 
volunteers, with no support on those lists, from Thunderbird or its 
developers. 


Thunderbird developers, and, the Thunderbird organisation, have yet to 
adapt to using email (it is a bit like the oxymoron "military 
intelligence", as referenced by the character played by Danny de Vito 
in the movie of that name - Thunderbird developers and the Thunderbird 
organisation, have so little regard for email, that they do not 
provide official users mailing lists, for announcements, providing 
support, etc - some of the operating systems, on which email 
applications run, such as Debian, and Ubuntu, are far more adept at 
using email - the Thunderbird organisation, has yet to come to terms 
with the use of email).

I find the lack of a mailing list rather ironic.




I think that is rather a euphemistic way of putting it...

:)

It is a bit like
"What operating system do you use at home?"
MS Windows developers: "Linux, of course. Windows? You've got to be joking!"

..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

Re: Thunderbird vs Claws Mail

[Peter Ehlert]

On 8/15/23 19:20, Max Nikulin wrote:

On 15/08/2023 23:43, Peter Ehlert wrote:
I am a long time user of Thunderbird. No real complaints, but the GUI 
has been slowly been changed.


I think, Thunderbird will be upgraded to version 115 soon in Debian 
stable. Major changes of default UI have been announced. 


We got 115 in Sid a couple days ago.

"lipstick on a pig" comes to mind

I have not tried it, so I can not say it is really more convenient or 
not. It is possible to switch to current UI style, but I am unsure if 
any bugs will be fixed. 
there was a Zoom meeting hosted by the Thunderbird guys... I sat in and 
asked a couple questions... They were very clear that 115 is cosmetic 
only and does not address anything else.
They did acknowledge the problem with the massive .msf file problem. 
they had no idea if/when that may be corrected
Just a warning for those who are sensitive to changes of UI. From my 
point of view traditional UI of Thunderbird may be improved, but I am 
unsure that particular issues are addressed in new UI.

Re: Thunderbird vs Claws Mail

[Peter Ehlert]

On 8/15/23 12:13, Bret Busby wrote:

On 16/8/23 00:43, Peter Ehlert wrote:



I am a long time user of Thunderbird. No real complaints, but the GUI 
has been slowly been changed.
lately I have been struggling with that, trying to get it to be My 
Way. Minor success.


also the .msf files have gotten Huge and that hinders rapid and easy 
backups.


In the process I would like to do some housekeeping, fix a few 
filters and rearrange my copious folders.


Question: do you folks recommend migrating to Claws Mail?
the initial look and feel seems to be familiar and comfortable, but I 
know little of the history and stability.


secondly, will I be missing the basic features such as Filters?

thanks in advance.



I use both email applications, separately for different email accounts.

I use claws mail for a minor email account, in which I may get one or 
two (or, if spammed, more) messages, each month.


I use Thunderbird for my primary email account, which can get many (a 
hundred, or, hundreds, depending on what is happening)messages, each day.


My use of Thunderbird, is basically as a webmail kind of application, 
over which, I have more control, than over something like horde or 
roundcube (that has been imposed to replace horde). At the end of each 
month (or, more frequently, depending on the number of messages left 
after preliminary sifting out of chaff), I download my incoming email, 
using the most powerful email application that I have encountered, 
alpine, that was evolved from pine. All my download email filtering, 
is done using alpine, with hundreds of filters, each with up to a 
couple of hundred different field values. I have several hundred or 
more, folders, for storing my downloaded messages, with some folders 
being archived on a monthly basis, depending on the usual volume of 
messages in each folder. My mail folder (the mail messages folder for 
alpine), is somewhere around 20GB, and contains messages up to about 
20 years old.


Claws mail has an official users mailing list, which, I believe, is 
hosted and administered by the application developer, who also answers 
queries on the list.


Thunderbird email has no official users mailing list, but has two 
unofficial users mailing lists, hosted on groups.io, with a different 
priority for each mailing list, and, each of those lists, is run by 
volunteers, with no support on those lists, from Thunderbird or its 
developers. 


Thunderbird developers, and, the Thunderbird organisation, have yet to 
adapt to using email (it is a bit like the oxymoron "military 
intelligence", as referenced by the character played by Danny de Vito 
in the movie of that name - Thunderbird developers and the Thunderbird 
organisation, have so little regard for email, that they do not 
provide official users mailing lists, for announcements, providing 
support, etc - some of the operating systems, on which email 
applications run, such as Debian, and Ubuntu, are far more adept at 
using email - the Thunderbird organisation, has yet to come to terms 
with the use of email).

I find the lack of a mailing list rather ironic.


Oh, and, alpine has an official mailing list, involving the developer 
of alpine, who also provides answers to queries (and, considers 
development suggestions) made on that list.


So, the Thunderbird organisation is a bit backward...

..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

Re: Thunderbird vs Claws Mail

[Brad Rogers]

On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 08:58:25 +0200
Thierry Leurent  wrote:

Hello Thierry,

>Thanks for the information

YW, Thierry.

Unless one reads the Claws mailing list, it's not easy to have known what
was going on.

-- 
 Regards  _   "Valid sig separator is {dash}{dash}{space}"
 / )  "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent"
/ _)rad   "Is it only me that has a working delete key?"
It's cool to know nothin'
Never Miss A Beat - Kaiser Chiefs


pgpDnTfuW6C6W.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Thunderbird vs Claws Mail

[Thierry Leurent]

Thanks for the information

On 8/16/23 08:30, Brad Rogers wrote:

On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 00:10:20 +0200
Thierry Leurent  wrote:

Hello Thierry,


-  Claws mail not render correctly html mails.

It doesn't render them at all, unless you have a suitable plugin
installed(1).  And yes, for a while, HTML rendering was not great.  This
was due to removal (in many distros) of a package required by the Fancy
plugin (I forget which) that had security issues.

(1) This is, IMO, a Good Thing.


--
Thierry LEURENT
BEGIN:VCARD
VERSION:4.0
N:Leurent;Thierry;;;
FN:Thierry LEURENT
NICKNAME:BackFromHell
EMAIL;PREF=1:thierry.leur...@asgardian.be
URL:https://Asgardian.be
TZ:Europe/Brussels
END:VCARD

Re: Thunderbird vs Claws Mail

[Brad Rogers]

On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 00:10:20 +0200
Thierry Leurent  wrote:

Hello Thierry,

>-  Claws mail not render correctly html mails.

It doesn't render them at all, unless you have a suitable plugin
installed(1).  And yes, for a while, HTML rendering was not great.  This
was due to removal (in many distros) of a package required by the Fancy
plugin (I forget which) that had security issues.

(1) This is, IMO, a Good Thing.

-- 
 Regards  _   "Valid sig separator is {dash}{dash}{space}"
 / )  "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent"
/ _)rad   "Is it only me that has a working delete key?"
You're only laughing 'cause you haven't heard the news
Sleeep - Wah!


pgpI1iRZmupPg.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Thunderbird vs Claws Mail

[Max Nikulin]

On 15/08/2023 23:43, Peter Ehlert wrote:
I am a long time user of Thunderbird. No real complaints, but the GUI 
has been slowly been changed.


I think, Thunderbird will be upgraded to version 115 soon in Debian 
stable. Major changes of default UI have been announced. I have not 
tried it, so I can not say it is really more convenient or not. It is 
possible to switch to current UI style, but I am unsure if any bugs will 
be fixed. Just a warning for those who are sensitive to changes of UI. 
From my point of view traditional UI of Thunderbird may be improved, 
but I am unsure that particular issues are addressed in new UI.

Re: Thunderbird vs Claws Mail

[Thierry Leurent]

My last experience with mua is :

- KMail have problem with big imap mailbox.

-  Claws mail not render correctly html mails.

- Thunderbird work great.

I'm under kde so I  don't try evolution.

On 8/15/23 18:43, Peter Ehlert wrote:



I am a long time user of Thunderbird. No real complaints, but the GUI 
has been slowly been changed.
lately I have been struggling with that, trying to get it to be My 
Way. Minor success.


also the .msf files have gotten Huge and that hinders rapid and easy 
backups.


In the process I would like to do some housekeeping, fix a few filters 
and rearrange my copious folders.


Question: do you folks recommend migrating to Claws Mail?
the initial look and feel seems to be familiar and comfortable, but I 
know little of the history and stability.


secondly, will I be missing the basic features such as Filters?

thanks in advance.


--
Thierry LEURENT
BEGIN:VCARD
VERSION:4.0
N:Leurent;Thierry;;;
FN:Thierry LEURENT
NICKNAME:BackFromHell
EMAIL;PREF=1:thierry.leur...@asgardian.be
URL:https://Asgardian.be
TZ:Europe/Brussels
END:VCARD

Re: Thunderbird vs Claws Mail

[Bret Busby]

On 16/8/23 03:48, Russell L. Harris wrote:

Consider evolution.


I think evolution is one of the gnome applications, where the gnomes 
shut down all of the users' mailing lists - thence, instability.


..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

Re: Thunderbird vs Claws Mail

[Russell L. Harris]

Consider evolution.

Re: Thunderbird vs Claws Mail

[Bret Busby]

On 16/8/23 00:43, Peter Ehlert wrote:



I am a long time user of Thunderbird. No real complaints, but the GUI 
has been slowly been changed.
lately I have been struggling with that, trying to get it to be My Way. 
Minor success.


also the .msf files have gotten Huge and that hinders rapid and easy 
backups.


In the process I would like to do some housekeeping, fix a few filters 
and rearrange my copious folders.


Question: do you folks recommend migrating to Claws Mail?
the initial look and feel seems to be familiar and comfortable, but I 
know little of the history and stability.


secondly, will I be missing the basic features such as Filters?

thanks in advance.



I use both email applications, separately for different email accounts.

I use claws mail for a minor email account, in which I may get one or 
two (or, if spammed, more) messages, each month.


I use Thunderbird for my primary email account, which can get many (a 
hundred, or, hundreds, depending on what is happening)messages, each day.


My use of Thunderbird, is basically as a webmail kind of application, 
over which, I have more control, than over something like horde or 
roundcube (that has been imposed to replace horde). At the end of each 
month (or, more frequently, depending on the number of messages left 
after preliminary sifting out of chaff), I download my incoming email, 
using the most powerful email application that I have encountered, 
alpine, that was evolved from pine. All my download email filtering, is 
done using alpine, with hundreds of filters, each with up to a couple of 
hundred different field values. I have several hundred or more, folders, 
for storing my downloaded messages, with some folders being archived on 
a monthly basis, depending on the usual volume of messages in each 
folder. My mail folder (the mail messages folder for alpine), is 
somewhere around 20GB, and contains messages up to about 20 years old.


Claws mail has an official users mailing list, which, I believe, is 
hosted and administered by the application developer, who also answers 
queries on the list.


Thunderbird email has no official users mailing list, but has two 
unofficial users mailing lists, hosted on groups.io, with a different 
priority for each mailing list, and, each of those lists, is run by 
volunteers, with no support on those lists, from Thunderbird or its 
developers. Thunderbird developers, and, the Thunderbird organisation, 
have yet to adapt to using email (it is a bit like the oxymoron 
"military intelligence", as referenced by the character played by Danny 
de Vito in the movie of that name - Thunderbird developers and the 
Thunderbird organisation, have so little regard for email, that they do 
not provide official users mailing lists, for announcements, providing 
support, etc - some of the operating systems, on which email 
applications run, such as Debian, and Ubuntu, are far more adept at 
using email - the Thunderbird organisation, has yet to come to terms 
with the use of email).


Oh, and, alpine has an official mailing list, involving the developer of 
alpine, who also provides answers to queries (and, considers development 
suggestions) made on that list.


So, the Thunderbird organisation is a bit backward...

..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

Re: Thunderbird vs Claws Mail

[Marco]

Am 15.08.2023 um 09:43:57 Uhr schrieb Peter Ehlert:

> Question: do you folks recommend migrating to Claws Mail?
> the initial look and feel seems to be familiar and comfortable, but I 
> know little of the history and stability.

One way is to use an IMAP server, move the mail to it, then move it to
a local mailbox again.
Maybe using Maildir is also possible.

> secondly, will I be missing the basic features such as Filters?

Claws Mail supports filtering for Mail and Usenet.

Thunderbird vs Claws Mail

[Peter Ehlert]

I am a long time user of Thunderbird. No real complaints, but the GUI 
has been slowly been changed.
lately I have been struggling with that, trying to get it to be My Way. 
Minor success.


also the .msf files have gotten Huge and that hinders rapid and easy 
backups.


In the process I would like to do some housekeeping, fix a few filters 
and rearrange my copious folders.


Question: do you folks recommend migrating to Claws Mail?
the initial look and feel seems to be familiar and comfortable, but I 
know little of the history and stability.


secondly, will I be missing the basic features such as Filters?

thanks in advance.

Re: Claws-mail Address Book Bug?

[Felmon Davis]

On Sun, 13 Mar 2022, Cindy Sue Causey wrote:


On 3/12/22, Brad Rogers  wrote:

On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 09:19:52 +1100
Charlie  wrote:


Discovered that when I looked for the mailing list on the net.
I dare not say googled because there is some controversy about


IKWYM, but in most circles that word is still the 'go to' one as the verb
for "use a search engine"



I remember very early on where there was at least one headline that
said Google was considering court action over the use of its name as a
verb (copyright, trademark, etc):

https://blogs.illinois.edu/view/25/589

That never made sense because being repetitively used as a common verb
meant they had arrived, were mainstream at least with tech folks, and
received free publicity every time it occurred.

Cindy :)


likely the producers of Aspirin wouldn't like the producers of Tylenol 
advertising Tylenol as "the best Aspirin there is!"


oddly and from another angle, it used to be the case in German law 
that 'comparative advertising' was verboten: "any advertising which 
directly or indirectly identifies a competitor or goods or services 
offered by a competitor" says the write-up at 
.


it is permitted now it seems.

anyway, I'm guessing (not having read the link) Google is aiming at 
competitors, not the general public.


f.

--
Felmon

Verbum sat sapienti.

Re: Claws-mail Address Book Bug?

[David Wright]

On Sun 13 Mar 2022 at 16:02:25 (+), Brad Rogers wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 11:51:03 -0400
> Cindy Sue Causey  wrote:
> > I remember very early on where there was at least one headline that
> > said Google was considering court action over the use of its name as a
> > verb (copyright, trademark, etc):
> > 
> Against who?  I mean, since the term was used by everyone (for certain
> values of everyone), short of suing the *entire* population, what did
> they expect to achieve?
> > 
> > https://blogs.illinois.edu/view/25/589

As the article says, publishers of Websters, sorry, dictionaries.
Or rather, any publisher that bandies them about, without making
it clear that they're registered/proprietary.

> > That never made sense because being repetitively used as a common verb
> > meant they had arrived, were mainstream at least with tech folks, and
> > received free publicity every time it occurred.

It works both ways. Unless companies spend time and money defending
their trademarks, then they become generic through usage, by default.
Each company has to decide on which works better, threatening lawsuits,
or other ways of advertising their brand.

> Hoover never sued anyone for use of their name as a substitute for the
> term vacuuming.

Exactly, which may be why conventional wisdom says they could never
win a case against the word hoovering, in a British court anyway.

> Nor did AVO sue for use of their name as a substitute for multimeter.

Not quite in the same league.

> Companies these days seem to be run by idiots.  Clever idiots, yes.  But
> idiots, just the same.   :-)

That lets a lot of CEOs off the hook: just plead stupidity for the
harm that some of them do.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Claws-mail Address Book Bug?

[Nicholas Geovanis]

On Sun, Mar 13, 2022, 11:26 AM mick crane  wrote:

> On 2022-03-13 16:02, Brad Rogers wrote:
> > On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 11:51:03 -0400
> > Cindy Sue Causey  wrote:
> >
> > Hello Cindy,
> >
> >> said Google was considering court action over the use of its name as a
> >
> > Against who?  I mean, since the term was used by everyone (for certain
> > values of everyone), short of suing the *entire* population, what did
> > they expect to achieve?
> >
> > Hoover never sued anyone for use of their name as a substitute for the
> > term vacuuming.  Nor did AVO sue for use of their name as a substitute
> > for multimeter.
> >
> > Companies these days seem to be run by idiots.  Clever idiots, yes.
> > But
> > idiots, just the same.   :-)
>
> over 20 odd years ago a friend said his American friends were all
> complaining that their children wanted to be copyright lawyers.
>

The subfield has been ennobled with a loftier name in those past 20 years
:-) intellectual property rights law :-)
I think John Marshall Law School here in Chicago had the first specialty by
that name. But law schools are just commodities after all. Bought, sold,
traded :-) It is now the law school of the Univ of Illinois at Chicago :-)

mick
>
> --
> Key ID4BFEBB31
>
>

Re: Claws-mail Address Book Bug?

[mick crane]

On 2022-03-13 16:02, Brad Rogers wrote:

On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 11:51:03 -0400
Cindy Sue Causey  wrote:

Hello Cindy,


said Google was considering court action over the use of its name as a


Against who?  I mean, since the term was used by everyone (for certain
values of everyone), short of suing the *entire* population, what did
they expect to achieve?

Hoover never sued anyone for use of their name as a substitute for the
term vacuuming.  Nor did AVO sue for use of their name as a substitute
for multimeter.

Companies these days seem to be run by idiots.  Clever idiots, yes.  
But

idiots, just the same.   :-)


over 20 odd years ago a friend said his American friends were all 
complaining that their children wanted to be copyright lawyers.


mick

--
Key ID4BFEBB31

Re: Claws-mail Address Book Bug?

[Brad Rogers]

On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 11:51:03 -0400
Cindy Sue Causey  wrote:

Hello Cindy,

>said Google was considering court action over the use of its name as a

Against who?  I mean, since the term was used by everyone (for certain
values of everyone), short of suing the *entire* population, what did
they expect to achieve?

Hoover never sued anyone for use of their name as a substitute for the
term vacuuming.  Nor did AVO sue for use of their name as a substitute
for multimeter.

Companies these days seem to be run by idiots.  Clever idiots, yes.  But
idiots, just the same.   :-)

-- 
 Regards  _
 / )  "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent"
/ _)rad   "Is it only me that has a working delete key?"
I hit the ground, boy have I arrived!
The History Of The World (Part 1) - The Damned


pgpyPibyGf9EV.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Claws-mail Address Book Bug?

[Cindy Sue Causey]

On 3/12/22, Brad Rogers  wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 09:19:52 +1100
> Charlie  wrote:
>
>>  Discovered that when I looked for the mailing list on the net.
>>  I dare not say googled because there is some controversy about
>
> IKWYM, but in most circles that word is still the 'go to' one as the verb
> for "use a search engine"


I remember very early on where there was at least one headline that
said Google was considering court action over the use of its name as a
verb (copyright, trademark, etc):

https://blogs.illinois.edu/view/25/589

That never made sense because being repetitively used as a common verb
meant they had arrived, were mainstream at least with tech folks, and
received free publicity every time it occurred.

Cindy :)
-- 
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA
* runs with birdseed *

Re: Claws-mail Address Book Bug?

[Brad Rogers]

On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 09:19:52 +1100
Charlie  wrote:

Hello Charlie,

>   Thanks Brad,

You're welcome.

>   Discovered that when I looked for the mailing list on the net.
>   I dare not say googled because there is some controversy about

IKWYM, but in most circles that word is still the 'go to' one as the verb
for "use a search engine"

>Strange, can only assume things have changed, but when I started using
>Linux, people would say, RTFM or google is your friend. [shrug]

People do still say RTFM, but not as much as they used to.
However, google has *never* been your friend. ;-)

>Everything changes I suppose.

Except change.  That's a constant.

(oh, the oxymoronic irony)

-- 
 Regards  _
 / )  "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent"
/ _)rad   "Is it only me that has a working delete key?"
But they didn't tell him the first two didn't count
Tin Soldiers - Stiff Little Fingers


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Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Claws-mail Address Book Bug?

[Brad Rogers]

On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 15:13:05 -0700
Charles Curley  wrote:

Hello Charles,

>I don't think so. Control-V works correctly (insert text from the
>clipboard) in other applications, and in other parts of claws-mail,
>such as the compose window and preference menu. I looked through

Each part of Claws Mail is independent (WRT short cut key combos), so
short cuts in the address book won't affect other parts of CM.  Further,
changes in CM's shortcuts won't affect other apps.  However..

>~/.claws-mail/menurc and nothing looked like it was creating such an
>shortcut, for the address book or anywhere else.

.that would seem to be conclusive.

>> >Has anyone else seen this?
>> 'fraid not.  Sorry.  
>Thanks

NP.

-- 
 Regards  _
 / )  "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent"
/ _)rad   "Is it only me that has a working delete key?"
You criticize us, you say we're sh*t, but we're up here doin' it
We're The League - Anti-Nowhere League


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Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Times change [was: Claws-mail Address Book Bug?]

[gene heskett]

On Sunday, 13 March 2022 01:21:57 EDT to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 13, 2022 at 09:19:52AM +1100, Charlie wrote:
> > On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 22:04:55 +
> > 
> > Brad Rogers  wrote:
> > > On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 08:47:57 +1100
> > > Charlie  wrote:
> > > 
> > > Hello Charlie,
> > > 
> > > >On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 04:09:23 +0800
> > > >
> > > >Bret Busby  wrote:
> > > >> https://lists-claws-mail.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/users
> > > > 
> > > > Hello Bret,
> > > > 
> > > > I won't send a return receipt, but will just say this 
doesn't
> > > > work for me?
> > > 
> > > Because it's wrong.  It *should* be;
> > > https://lists.claws-mail.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/users
> > > with a '.' between lists and claws, not a '-'.
> > 
> > Thanks Brad,
> > 
> > Discovered that when I looked for the mailing list on the net.
> > I dare not say googled because there is some controversy about
> > that.
> 
> Hm. About what: looking up on the net, search engines in general or
> Google in particular?
> 
> > Strange, can only assume things have changed, but when I started
> > using
> > Linux, people would say, RTFM or google is your friend. [shrug]
> > Everything changes I suppose.
> 
> Again: what do you have in mind: sending someone "go RTFM", doing it
> oneself, google, friendship?
> 
> So many unknown unknowns ;-)
> 
> But yes, times do change: my first Linux computer had four megabytes
> (no typo!) of RAM and a 30MB disk. X ran on it. Google wasn't even
> around back then.
> 
Can you top this game, Tomas, luv em.  My first network capable machine 
was one of the old tandy grey ghosts, the original Color Computer I'd put 
64k of ram into so I could run a micro unix called os9 level one, with 
two 720k floppy drives, 20 miles to Clarksburg was still a long distance 
call, and a 300 baud modem got me to a login in clarksburg that put me on 
the delphi mail server. Ran my phone bill up about $150 a month.

That machine was followed by a coco3 with 2 megs of pageable ram and a 30 
meg hard drive.

That machine was joined by a full blown amiga 2000, and eventually a 
400mhz k6 running redhat 5.0. No windows machine has survived on this 
ppty more than a week before its booting linux, windows has been nuked.

So I've been spoiled by multiuser, multitasking machines since about 
1985.  Hows that for a "war story" Tomas?
> Cheers
> --
> t


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

Times change [was: Claws-mail Address Book Bug?]

[tomas]

On Sun, Mar 13, 2022 at 09:19:52AM +1100, Charlie wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 22:04:55 +
> Brad Rogers  wrote:
> 
> > On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 08:47:57 +1100
> > Charlie  wrote:
> > 
> > Hello Charlie,
> > 
> > >On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 04:09:23 +0800
> > >Bret Busby  wrote:
> > >  
> > >> https://lists-claws-mail.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/users
> > >
> > >   Hello Bret,
> > >
> > >   I won't send a return receipt, but will just say this doesn't
> > >   work for me?  
> > 
> > Because it's wrong.  It *should* be;
> > https://lists.claws-mail.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/users
> > with a '.' between lists and claws, not a '-'.
> > 
> > 
> 
>   Thanks Brad,
> 
>   Discovered that when I looked for the mailing list on the net.
>   I dare not say googled because there is some controversy about
>   that.

Hm. About what: looking up on the net, search engines in general or
Google in particular?

> Strange, can only assume things have changed, but when I started using
> Linux, people would say, RTFM or google is your friend. [shrug]
> Everything changes I suppose.

Again: what do you have in mind: sending someone "go RTFM", doing it oneself,
google, friendship?

So many unknown unknowns ;-)

But yes, times do change: my first Linux computer had four megabytes
(no typo!) of RAM and a 30MB disk. X ran on it. Google wasn't even
around back then.

Cheers
-- 
t


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Claws-mail Address Book Bug?

[Bret Busby]

On 13/3/22 5:47 am, Charlie wrote:

On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 04:09:23 +0800
Bret Busby  wrote:


https://lists-claws-mail.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/users


Hello Bret,

I won't send a return receipt, but will just say this doesn't
work for me?

Charlie



Try this URL

https://www.claws-mail.org/MLs.php

The previous one was from the footer in messages from the claws mail 
users mailing list.


--
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

Re: Claws-mail Address Book Bug?

[Bret Busby]

On 13/3/22 5:47 am, Charlie wrote:

On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 04:09:23 +0800
Bret Busby  wrote:


https://lists-claws-mail.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/users


Hello Bret,

I won't send a return receipt, but will just say this doesn't
work for me?

Charlie




I may have mistyped that URL.

Try
https://lists.claws-mail.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/users
(this is copy and paste, rather than look and type)

--
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

Re: Claws-mail Address Book Bug?

[Charlie]

On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 22:04:55 +
Brad Rogers  wrote:

> On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 08:47:57 +1100
> Charlie  wrote:
> 
> Hello Charlie,
> 
> >On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 04:09:23 +0800
> >Bret Busby  wrote:
> >  
> >> https://lists-claws-mail.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/users
> >
> > Hello Bret,
> >
> > I won't send a return receipt, but will just say this doesn't
> > work for me?  
> 
> Because it's wrong.  It *should* be;
> https://lists.claws-mail.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/users
> with a '.' between lists and claws, not a '-'.
> 
> 

Thanks Brad,

Discovered that when I looked for the mailing list on the net.
I dare not say googled because there is some controversy about
that.

Strange, can only assume things have changed, but when I started using
Linux, people would say, RTFM or google is your friend. [shrug]
Everything changes I suppose.

Charlie
-- 
Registered Linux User:- 329524
***

What does education often do? It makes a straight-cut ditch of
a free, meandering brook..Henry David Thoreau

***

Debian GNU/Linux - Magic indeed.

-

Re: Claws-mail Address Book Bug?

[Charles Curley]

On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 20:44:15 +
Brad Rogers  wrote:

> >What I get is the entry being edited closes down, and I am back to
> >the address book window.  
> 
> It's possible you may have, inadvertently, set up a keyboard shortcut
> to perform the action you're seeing.  The default for 'close address
> book' is Ctrl-W, BTW.

I don't think so. Control-V works correctly (insert text from the
clipboard) in other applications, and in other parts of claws-mail,
such as the compose window and preference menu. I looked through
~/.claws-mail/menurc and nothing looked like it was creating such an
shortcut, for the address book or anywhere else.

> 
> >Has anyone else seen this?  
> 
> 'fraid not.  Sorry.

Thanks
-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/


pgpiT5fVQIVtg.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Claws-mail Address Book Bug?

[Brad Rogers]

On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 08:47:57 +1100
Charlie  wrote:

Hello Charlie,

>On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 04:09:23 +0800
>Bret Busby  wrote:
>
>> https://lists-claws-mail.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/users  
>
>   Hello Bret,
>
>   I won't send a return receipt, but will just say this doesn't
>   work for me?

Because it's wrong.  It *should* be;
https://lists.claws-mail.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/users
with a '.' between lists and claws, not a '-'.


-- 
 Regards  _
 / )  "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent"
/ _)rad   "Is it only me that has a working delete key?"
Tired of doing day jobs with no thanks for what I do
Do Anything You Wanna Do - Eddie & The Hotrods


pgphO5DDGruv2.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Claws-mail Address Book Bug?

[Charlie]

On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 04:09:23 +0800
Bret Busby  wrote:

> https://lists-claws-mail.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/users

Hello Bret,

I won't send a return receipt, but will just say this doesn't
work for me?

Charlie
-- 
Registered Linux User:- 329524
***

Pity the man who has a character to support --it is worse than
a large family -- he is silent poor indeed.Henry David
Thoreau

***

Debian GNU/Linux - Magic indeed.

-

Re: Claws-mail Address Book Bug?

[Charles Curley]

On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 04:09:23 +0800
Bret Busby  wrote:

> Out of interest, are you aware of the Claws mail users mailing list?
> 
> https://lists-claws-mail.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/users

Yes, thank you, I am aware of it. Since this is a Debian package, and
might result in a bug report, I thought I'd ask here first.


-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: Claws-mail Address Book Bug?

[Brad Rogers]

On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 12:23:15 -0700
Charles Curley  wrote:

Hello Charles,

>What I get is the entry being edited closes down, and I am back to the
>address book window.

It's possible you may have, inadvertently, set up a keyboard shortcut to
perform the action you're seeing.  The default for 'close address book'
is Ctrl-W, BTW.

>Has anyone else seen this?

'fraid not.  Sorry.

-- 
 Regards  _
 / )  "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent"
/ _)rad   "Is it only me that has a working delete key?"
When I say ugly, I don't mean rough looking, I mean hideous
Ugly - The Stranglers


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Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Claws-mail Address Book Bug?

[Bret Busby]

On 13/3/22 3:23 am, Charles Curley wrote:

I have hit a problem with claws-mail. When entering a new entry into
the address book, Control-V does not work as I expect.

What I expect is that the text in the clipboard will be inserted into
the current field at the cursor location.

What I get is the entry being edited closes down, and I am back to the
address book window.

I have found that simply using the middle button of the mouse (button
2) will insert freshly swiped text.

Has anyone else seen this?

claws-mail 3.17.8-1+b1 amd64 on Bullseye.



Out of interest, are you aware of the Claws mail users mailing list?

https://lists-claws-mail.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/users

--
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

Claws-mail Address Book Bug?

[Charles Curley]

I have hit a problem with claws-mail. When entering a new entry into
the address book, Control-V does not work as I expect.

What I expect is that the text in the clipboard will be inserted into
the current field at the cursor location.

What I get is the entry being edited closes down, and I am back to the
address book window.

I have found that simply using the middle button of the mouse (button
2) will insert freshly swiped text.

Has anyone else seen this?

claws-mail 3.17.8-1+b1 amd64 on Bullseye.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: Claws mail click on folder - shows zero mails,,,,,

[Charlie]

On Sat, 14 Dec 2019 10:36:22 +0200
Andrei POPESCU  wrote:

> On Sb, 14 dec 19, 09:41:42, Charlie wrote:
> > 
> > Hello everyone,
> > 
> > Debian Buster - Claws mail version 3.17.3
> > 
> > The GUI of Claws Mail shows folders containing amounts of read  
> 
> Did you mean *un*read?

All mails shown, click on, 0 0 nothing in the folder.

Have worked round it.
  
> > emails, but when clicked on the numbers vanish and each column shows
> > only zeros.  
> 
> If this is about unread e-mail Claws Mail might mark the e-mails
> 'read' and/or 'old' once you accessed the folder. This should be
> configurable in the settings.

No, nothing to do with that.

Have worked round it by backing everything claws mail up from when
buster was in testing, and still does "Reply" with highlighted text as
was the case then, and someone said I should expect such a thing from
testing. [laughing]

https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2019/02/msg00879.html

I will find a work round that now Buster is "stable".

Thank you for you time,
Charlie

-- 
Registered Linux User:- 329524
***

In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life.
It goes on. Robert Frost

***

Debian GNU/Linux - Magic indeed.

-

Re: Claws mail click on folder - shows zero mails,,,,,

[Charlie]

On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 22:53:19 +
Brad Rogers  wrote:

> On Sat, 14 Dec 2019 09:41:42 +1100
> Charlie  wrote:
> 
> Hello Charlie,
> 
> >emails, but when clicked on the numbers vanish and each column shows
> >only zeros.  
> {}
> >If anyone has any ideas, thanks in advance.  
> 
> Have you tried the "Rebuild folder tree"(1) option from the context
> menu in the folder list?
> 
> (1)  Only available at top level, otherwise ghosted.
> 

Thank you, made no difference.

Charlie

-- 
Registered Linux User:- 329524
***

Sneezing, I lost sight of the skylark. --YAYU

***

Debian GNU/Linux - Magic indeed.

-

Re: Claws mail click on folder - shows zero mails,,,,,

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Sb, 14 dec 19, 09:41:42, Charlie wrote:
> 
>   Hello everyone,
> 
>   Debian Buster - Claws mail version 3.17.3
> 
> The GUI of Claws Mail shows folders containing amounts of read

Did you mean *un*read?

> emails, but when clicked on the numbers vanish and each column shows
> only zeros.

If this is about unread e-mail Claws Mail might mark the e-mails 'read' 
and/or 'old' once you accessed the folder. This should be configurable 
in the settings.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Claws mail click on folder - shows zero mails,,,,,

[Brad Rogers]

On Sat, 14 Dec 2019 09:41:42 +1100
Charlie  wrote:

Hello Charlie,

>emails, but when clicked on the numbers vanish and each column shows
>only zeros.
{}
>If anyone has any ideas, thanks in advance.

Have you tried the "Rebuild folder tree"(1) option from the context menu
in the folder list?

(1)  Only available at top level, otherwise ghosted.

-- 
 Regards  _
 / )   "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)radnever immediately apparent"
The stakes were high but the danger low
Charade - Skids


pgpkLLR3fYuHV.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Claws mail click on folder - shows zero mails,,,,,

[Charlie]

Hello everyone,

Debian Buster - Claws mail version 3.17.3

The GUI of Claws Mail shows folders containing amounts of read
emails, but when clicked on the numbers vanish and each column shows
only zeros.

But looking into the folders with a file manager, shows the emails
are still there?

I assume I have inadvertently clicked on something to do this, but am
at a loss to discover what it was and have googled and not found
anything that might help.

If anyone has any ideas, thanks in advance.

I will be away most of the day.

Thank you

Charlie

East Gippsland Wildlife Rehabilitators Inc..
   http://www.egwildlife.com.au/

-- 
Registered Linux User:- 329524
***

A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything, and the
value of nothing. --Oscar Wilde

***

Debian GNU/Linux - Magic indeed.

-

Re: Claws mail -buster- doesn't quote text on Reply.....

[Charlie]

Received from Joe on Sun, 24 Feb 2019 17:16:16 + Re: Claws
mail -buster- doesn't quote text on Reply.

> > Hello,
> > 
> > Using Claws-Mail in Buster and finding when replying, the
> > text of the message is not quoted in the reply. Also doesn't include
> > the quoted text when dropping the menu that says "Reply with
> > quote".
> > 
> > When replying with highlighted text, it does not come up when click
> > on "Reply" or "Reply with quote".
> > 
> > Looked through Configuration > Preferences no end. Can't find what
> > should be enabled to make it work there. Maybe looking for the
> > wrong wording?
> > 
> > Googled to see if I could find something about a bug in Claws-Mail,
> > maybe asked the wrong way because I found nothing.
> > 
> > Anyone have an idea?
> 
> Well, you ARE using Buster.  It's still alpha, so expect problems.
> Other than that, in Configuration -> Preferences, Compose -> Writing  
> -> Replying, see if "Reply will quote by default" is checked.  
> 
>  

>I have what was a pure unstable installation, which nevertheless has
>always offered the banner 'x/sid', currently saying 'buster/sid'.

>Buster and sid list the same version of claws-mail for almost all
>architectures. I'm not seeing the problem.

>Having said that, I've seen a lot of, er, undocumented behaviour that
>nobody else seems to have noticed. When it comes to sid or testing,
>we're all different, there can be no two identical computers.

>Joe

   Thank you for your reply. I too have noticed the same thing, having
   problems that no one else has reported or recorded. So if you are
   not having this problem, it could be that it has something to do with
   because I am using FVWM.

Good to know that it isn't a Claws-Mail problem.

Thank you.

Be well,
Charlie

East Gippsland Wildlife Rehabilitators Inc..
 http://www.egwildlife.com.au/

-- 
Registered Linux User:- 329524
***

Although the world is full of suffering, it is also full of the
overcoming of it. ---Helen Keller

***

Debian GNU/Linux - Magic indeed.

-

Re: Claws mail -buster- doesn't quote text on Reply.....

[Charlie]

Received from Patrick on Sun, 24 Feb 2019 07:48:13 -0800 Re:
Claws mail -buster- doesn't quote text on Reply.

>   Hello,
> 
>   Using Claws-Mail in Buster and finding when replying, the text
>   of the message is not quoted in the reply. Also doesn't
>   include the quoted text when dropping the menu that says
>   "Reply with quote".
> 
> When replying with highlighted text, it does not come up when click on
> "Reply" or "Reply with quote".
> 
> Looked through Configuration > Preferences no end. Can't find what
> should be enabled to make it work there. Maybe looking for the
> wrong wording?
> 
> Googled to see if I could find something about a bug in Claws-Mail,
> maybe asked the wrong way because I found nothing.
> 
> Anyone have an idea?  

>Well, you ARE using Buster.  It's still alpha, so expect problems.
>Other than that, in Configuration -> Preferences, Compose -> Writing ->
>Replying, see if "Reply will quote by default" is checked.

>B

Yes, I do realise I am using Buster, and good to know that it is not a
bug. I usually use testing and know the disclaimer.

Thank you for your reply and "Reply will quote by default" is checked.

Also the latest upgrade has been installed.

Just thought I may have missed something in the Preferences for some
reason, because I don't know everything. In fact know very little after
all these years of using testing. [sigh]

Thank you again for your reply.

Be well,
Charlie

East Gippsland Wildlife Rehabilitators Inc..
 http://www.egwildlife.com.au/

-- 
Registered Linux User:- 329524
***

The robbed that smiles steals something from the thief.
---Othello

***

Debian GNU/Linux - Magic indeed.

-

Re: Claws mail -buster- doesn't quote text on Reply.....

[Joe]

On Sun, 24 Feb 2019 07:48:13 -0800
Patrick Bartek  wrote:

> On Sun, 24 Feb 2019 17:32:31 +1100
> Charlie  wrote:
> 
> > Through my keyboard:
> > 
> > Hello,
> > 
> > Using Claws-Mail in Buster and finding when replying, the
> > text of the message is not quoted in the reply. Also doesn't include
> > the quoted text when dropping the menu that says "Reply with
> > quote".
> > 
> > When replying with highlighted text, it does not come up when click
> > on "Reply" or "Reply with quote".
> > 
> > Looked through Configuration > Preferences no end. Can't find what
> > should be enabled to make it work there. Maybe looking for the
> > wrong wording?
> > 
> > Googled to see if I could find something about a bug in Claws-Mail,
> > maybe asked the wrong way because I found nothing.
> > 
> > Anyone have an idea?  
> 
> Well, you ARE using Buster.  It's still alpha, so expect problems.
> Other than that, in Configuration -> Preferences, Compose -> Writing
> -> Replying, see if "Reply will quote by default" is checked.
> 
>

I have what was a pure unstable installation, which nevertheless has
always offered the banner 'x/sid', currently saying 'buster/sid'.

Buster and sid list the same version of claws-mail for almost all
architectures. I'm not seeing the problem.

Having said that, I've seen a lot of, er, undocumented behaviour that
nobody else seems to have noticed. When it comes to sid or testing,
we're all different, there can be no two identical computers.

-- 
Joe

-- 
Joe

Re: Claws mail -buster- doesn't quote text on Reply.....

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sun, 24 Feb 2019 17:32:31 +1100
Charlie  wrote:

>   Through my keyboard:
> 
>   Hello,
> 
>       Using Claws-Mail in Buster and finding when replying, the text
>   of the message is not quoted in the reply. Also doesn't include
>   the quoted text when dropping the menu that says "Reply with
>   quote".
> 
> When replying with highlighted text, it does not come up when click on
> "Reply" or "Reply with quote".
> 
> Looked through Configuration > Preferences no end. Can't find what
> should be enabled to make it work there. Maybe looking for the
> wrong wording?
> 
> Googled to see if I could find something about a bug in Claws-Mail,
> maybe asked the wrong way because I found nothing.
> 
> Anyone have an idea?

Well, you ARE using Buster.  It's still alpha, so expect problems.
Other than that, in Configuration -> Preferences, Compose -> Writing ->
Replying, see if "Reply will quote by default" is checked.

B

Claws mail -buster- doesn't quote text on Reply.....

[Charlie]

Through my keyboard:

Hello,

Using Claws-Mail in Buster and finding when replying, the text
of the message is not quoted in the reply. Also doesn't include
the quoted text when dropping the menu that says "Reply with
quote".

When replying with highlighted text, it does not come up when click on
"Reply" or "Reply with quote".

Looked through Configuration > Preferences no end. Can't find what
should be enabled to make it work there. Maybe looking for the
wrong wording?

Googled to see if I could find something about a bug in Claws-Mail,
maybe asked the wrong way because I found nothing.

Anyone have an idea?

TIA

Be well,
Charlie

East Gippsland Wildlife Rehabilitators Inc..
 http://www.egwildlife.com.au/

-- 
Registered Linux User:- 329524
***

If you want something you never had, you have to do something
you’ve never done. ---Thomas Jefferson

***

Debian GNU/Linux - Magic indeed.

-

Re: trouble by new install of claws mail

[Andreas Ronnquist]

On Thu, 13 Sep 2018 23:50:04 +0200,
arne wrote:

>The message:
>
>"Your Claws Mail configuration is from a newer version than the version
>which you are currently using."
>
>Claws Mail is right.
>
>I did copy Claws settings from debian testing to a new system on
>stable.
>
>I do not want to loose my settings.
>
>Claws seems to work OK but the message remains.
>
>Any ideas on  how to solve this?
>
>And no, I do not want to switch to testing again.
>
>Thanks!
>

See my previous answer, it is described in more detail at

https://www.claws-mail.org/cvc.php

and see the details under "Manual downgrading to the previous version".

-- Andreas Rönnquist
mailingli...@gusnan.se
andr...@ronnquist.net

Re: trouble by new install of claws mail

[Andreas Ronnquist]

On Thu, 13 Sep 2018 23:50:04 +0200,
arne wrote:

>The message:
>
>"Your Claws Mail configuration is from a newer version than the version
>which you are currently using."
>
>Claws Mail is right.
>
>I did copy Claws settings from debian testing to a new system on
>stable.
>
>I do not want to loose my settings.
>
>Claws seems to work OK but the message remains.
>
>Any ideas on  how to solve this?
>

Edit 

$(HOME)/.claws-mail/accountrc

and change every line containing "config_version" from 3 (which it is in
the version from testing) to 2 - once for each account you have.

I have done this recently, and didn't notice any regressions.

Also, notice that claws-mail 3.17.1 is available from backports.

-- Andreas Rönnquist
mailingli...@gusnan.se
andr...@ronnquist.net

trouble by new install of claws mail

[arne]

The message:

"Your Claws Mail configuration is from a newer version than the version
which you are currently using."

Claws Mail is right.

I did copy Claws settings from debian testing to a new system on stable.

I do not want to loose my settings.

Claws seems to work OK but the message remains.

Any ideas on  how to solve this?

And no, I do not want to switch to testing again.

Thanks!

Re: Claws-mail "Get mail" opens full-page

[Patrick Bartek]

On Tue, 3 Jul 2018 20:29:02 -0500
ntrfug  wrote:

> I've been using claws-mail since well before it was claws-mail (back
> in the sylpheed days).
> 
> When I checked for new mail or opened dialogs they opened in
> the reduced size I specified, and this size was preserved when I
> exited the program.
> 
> I upgraded to stretch a couple of months ago, and to buster just last
> night. Since the stretch upgrade claws-mail dialogs opened in
> maximum size.v
> 
> If I catch "Get mail" before it's finished, I can reduce the dialog to
> a business-card-sized window, and that works for the current session,
> but if I exit the program the dialogs return to full size whenever I
> re-start.
> 
> How can I specify and save a reduced size for the get-mail dialog?

Try function key F11 which toggles Fullscreen.  This option is in menus
View-> Fullscreen. When in less than fullscreen mode, set the sizes you
want.

B

Claws-mail "Get mail" opens full-page

[ntrfug]

I've been using claws-mail since well before it was claws-mail (back in
the sylpheed days).

When I checked for new mail or opened dialogs they opened in
the reduced size I specified, and this size was preserved when I exited
the program.

I upgraded to stretch a couple of months ago, and to buster just last
night. Since the stretch upgrade claws-mail dialogs opened in
maximum size.v

If I catch "Get mail" before it's finished, I can reduce the dialog to
a business-card-sized window, and that works for the current session,
but if I exit the program the dialogs return to full size whenever I
re-start.

How can I specify and save a reduced size for the get-mail dialog?

Claws-mail all windows open in full-page

[ntrfug]

I've been using claws-mail since well before it was claws-mail (back in
the sylpheed days).

When I checked for new mail or opened dialogs they opened in
reduced size.

I upgraded to stretch a couple of months ago, and to buster just last
night. Since the stretch upgrade all claws-mail dialogs opened in
maximum size.

If I catch "Get mail" before it's finished, I can reduce the dialog to
a business-card-sized window, and that works for the current session,
but if I exit the program the dialogs return to full size whenever I
re-start.

Re: Claws-mail - which plugin for html mails?

[Ben Oliver]

On 18-07-02 10:22:57, Jason wrote:

Or if they include it but it contains different content than the HTML,
or is devoid of any content.


The blank plaintext is the ultimate middle finger to the user. At least 
when it's not there you can fall back to html if you want to. When you 
put a blank one in you get a blank email...!


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Description: PGP signature

Re: Claws-mail - which plugin for html mails?

[Jason]

On Sun, Jul 01, 2018 at 10:11:49AM +0100, Ben Oliver wrote:
> On 18-06-30 22:31:49, Celejar wrote:
> >I suppose everyone's browsing habits are different. I dislike HTML mail
> >as much as the next guy (well, perhaps not as much as the true
> >believers / fanatics), but I do have to deal with banks, businesses,
> >and other commercial entities who send HTML mail (with a text part that
> >isn't readable).
> 
> My pet peeve is when they do provide a plaintext part, but it's just the
> HTML anyway...

Or if they include it but it contains different content than the HTML,
or is devoid of any content.

-- 
Jason

Re: Claws-mail - which plugin for html mails?

[Ben Oliver]

On 18-06-30 22:31:49, Celejar wrote:

I suppose everyone's browsing habits are different. I dislike HTML mail
as much as the next guy (well, perhaps not as much as the true
believers / fanatics), but I do have to deal with banks, businesses,
and other commercial entities who send HTML mail (with a text part that
isn't readable).


My pet peeve is when they do provide a plaintext part, but it's just the 
HTML anyway...


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Description: PGP signature

Re: Claws-mail - which plugin for html mails?

[Celejar]

On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 10:07:04 -0400
Gene Heskett  wrote:

...

> Email was intended to be plain text. And since email is sent to a common 
> server, which in turn relays it to every subscriber to the list 
> regardless of where on the planet the recipient is, he is going to see 
> it, and all your legal dept gets for appending a big if not the intended 
> recipient, delete this unread, of course its only seen after reading 
> that far down in the message that this is seen. The only thing the legal 
> folks are getting out of such a message, is a paycheck that is a drain 
> on your resources, there has not been a court rendering anyplace on the 
> planet that I'm aware of ordering the reader of such a message to pay 
> damages.

I think some of the purists in this thread are disgregarding Postel's
Law. It's all very nice to yearn after an ideal world in which no
serious mail is in HTML form, but in the real world, there's still a
fair bit of legitimate, even essential, mail that is. Do we really want
to drop all of it, falling on our swords in the name of abstract
principle?

Celejar

Re: Claws-mail - which plugin for html mails?

[Celejar]

On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 09:10:16 -0400
Greg Wooledge  wrote:

> On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 03:04:16PM +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > Sometimes you gotta compromise. I spent a short period of my life in
> > a corporate environment. I may have lost what's left of my sparse
> > sanity had I been forced to use Outlook.
> 
> Yes, work is a different story.  They're paying me to do this job, and
> part of this job entails communicating with people who use Microsoft
> stuff exclusively (it's the desktop standard here).
> 
> For the times when it's actually important for my job to be able to read
> what someone is saying in the format that they're using ("my corrections
> are shown in red below"), I will open the mail in Outlook Web App (OWA).
> Which I use in google-chrome-stable.
> 
> But for non-work emails?  Forget it.

I suppose everyone's browsing habits are different. I dislike HTML mail
as much as the next guy (well, perhaps not as much as the true
believers / fanatics), but I do have to deal with banks, businesses,
and other commercial entities who send HTML mail (with a text part that
isn't readable).

Celejar

Re: Claws-mail - which plugin for html mails?

[David Wright]

On Fri 29 Jun 2018 at 10:51:26 (+0200), to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 10:05:47AM +0200, Aldo Maggi wrote:
> > Ok, I understand your point, but, I wonder, are you using just lynx or
> > links2 for going on Internet?  The problems you correctly point out are
> > not the same with Chromium, Firefox etc.?
> 
> I wouldn't be so sure about lynx et al. Here [1] is a rough but readable
> explanation on how eFail works. There are two components into it: (1)
> a format like HTML, in which the client possibly follows links without
> user interaction (more on that below) and (2) how to bury a MIME
> boundary within HTML's baroque syntax so that for the HTML parser,
> the whole (now decrypted) message forms part of that link, which will
> be "given" readily to a server out there, waiting to harvest it.
> 
> More on (1): the example uses an img tag. You might argue that HTML
> capable mail readers have learnt these days to not follow automatically
> img tags (on privacy grounds), but there is a multitude of other links
> which might be followed automatically: CSS, iframes...
> 
> Are you sure your l{ynx,inks} doesn't download any of them? Do you know
> by heart all of those? Do you even know where to look them up? [2]
> 
> I for one wouldn't know better than to look into lynx/links source
> code. Good luck with that.

When an email is HTML-only, I use lynx to read it. It doesn't download
anything because I set commandline options to prevent it (both
automatically and if I select a link). Here's the line from my
~/.mutt/mailcap-mutt file:

# the next line is used only when an html attachment is selected in the 
attachments menu
text/html; /usr/bin/lynx -force-html -localhost -stdin

which is configured in my ~/.mutt/muttrc file:

set mailcap_path=$HOME/.mutt/mailcap-mutt

I think elinks has a similar option ( -localhost 1 ), but I don't know
about the links program. I like lynx because it doesn't just dump the
output but scrolls it like the interactive mode, highlighting the
(gagged) links.

> [1] https://thehackernews.com/2018/05/efail-pgp-email-encryption.html
> [2] This isn't to make you look bad: I don't myself either! This is
>to drive home the message that "HTML" is a huge, ill-defined mess
>of standards, and that all HTML renderers out there have to be
>a steaming pile of pragmatism which is practically impossible to
>validate.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Claws-mail - which plugin for html mails?

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 29 June 2018 10:21:18 to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

> On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 10:13:08AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
>
> [farm]
>
> > I don't consider this postage stamp of yellow clay a farm. But its
> > been paid off for 20+ years now.
>
> Hey, at least a tiny yellow farm :-)

Actually, its summer in this hemisphere so its green, covered with weeds 
that seriously need mowing. :(

And which I've been slowly covering with roof's, a shed for this, a shed 
for that, and 10 years ago a very well insulated garage on the end of 
the house, which immediately got loaded up with wood and metalworking 
machinery, quite a bit of which is run by linuxcnc, after I converted 
them so motors could move them by the micron.  Retired for 15+ years 
now, this stuff keeps me out of the bars. ;-)  That and caring for a now 
invalid wife. Any "housekeeping" done is done by me. But I still manage 
to work in some time to harass (my interests are best described as 
eclectic) about 40 mailing lists. :)

Thanks Tomas.

> Cheers
> -- t



-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: Claws-mail - which plugin for html mails?

[tomas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 10:13:08AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:

[farm]

> I don't consider this postage stamp of yellow clay a farm. But its been 
> paid off for 20+ years now.

Hey, at least a tiny yellow farm :-)

Cheers
- -- t
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=ZOEY
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Re: Claws-mail - which plugin for html mails?

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 29 June 2018 09:04:16 to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

> On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 08:24:36AM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > I use a web browser to browse the web, but I use mutt to read and
> > send email.
>
> ...which of course is perfectly capable of calling out into a viewer
> for HTML (lynx or somesuch). But yeah...
>
> > The two things are completely separate for me.  And, I suspect, for
> > many other Debian users.
>
> Same for me, but see below.
>
> > If someone sends email which contains only HTML and not a textual
> > part, mutt shows me the raw HTML.  And then I delete the email,
> > because if they can't be bothered to send their words in an ordinary
> > plain text message [...]
>
> Sometimes you gotta compromise. I spent a short period of my life in
> a corporate environment. I may have lost what's left of my sparse
> sanity had I been forced to use Outlook.

Certainly a step in that direction.

> So I actually managed to get 
> fetchmail to talk to their Exchange server (IMAP). Needless to say,
> most company mails were HTML (few people even knew that, and I was
> in the computer tech department!).
>
> My HTML viewer was html2text. Most probably immune to the
> vulnerability we're talking about, although I wouldn't bet my farm [1]
> on it :-)

Bet only what you can afford to lose.  And generally, that amount donated 
to a charity will do more good.
>
> Cheers
> [1] that one I don't have :-)
> -- tomás

I don't consider this postage stamp of yellow clay a farm. But its been 
paid off for 20+ years now.

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: Claws-mail - which plugin for html mails?

[Aldo Maggi]

Thank you, Hans!

But I think that package is obsolete, in fact it appears in Precise
Pangolin 12.04, furthermore the package refers to claws-mail 3.8.0, my
version is 3.16.0

What I find very strange (I should be used to strange things since I'm
Italian :-D ) is that I do not see the reason to having a graphical
mailer if it doesn't show html messages, much better a textual one,
open in a xterm (let's hope there are not terrible securities issues
:-D )e.g. mutt (faster, just to mention an advantage, and folders in the
left side do not disappear from time to time with the need to find out
how to see them again!

BTW purists didn't install Xfree86, because of security issues, I do
not think problems have been solved with Xorg :-D

Thank you again,

Aldo :-)


Il giorno Fri, 29 Jun 2018 15:30:21 +0200
Hans  ha scritto:

> Hi, 
> 
> there is  a "claws-mail-html2-viewer" package in Ubuntu, it might
> also work in debian.
> 
> On the other hand, they are telling, that "gtkhtml2-viewer.so" as a
> plugin shall produce better results.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Hans
> 
> 

Re: Claws-mail - which plugin for html mails?

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 29 June 2018 08:24:36 Greg Wooledge wrote:

> On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 10:05:47AM +0200, Aldo Maggi wrote:
> > Ok, I understand your point, but, I wonder, are you using just lynx
> > or links2 for going on Internet?  The problems you correctly point
> > out are not the same with Chromium, Firefox etc.?
>
> I use a web browser to browse the web, but I use mutt to read and
> send email.
>
> The two things are completely separate for me.  And, I suspect, for
> many other Debian users.
>
> If someone sends email which contains only HTML and not a textual
> part, mutt shows me the raw HTML.  And then I delete the email,
> because if they can't be bothered to send their words in an ordinary
> plain text message, then I can't be bothered to go out of my way to
> convert it for them.  Plus, it'll either be spam, or a stupid question
> that I have no interest in reading in the first place, because what
> kind of intelligent question could you possibly get from someone who
> sends pure-HTML email?  None.

Rant on

+10,000 folks. Send me pure html mail and it goes straight back 
to "sa-learn spam". And that training has probably sent 20 such messages 
a day to the spam folder already, where its chances of being read are 
very poor, and a reply is once in a blue moon event.

Email was intended to be plain text. And since email is sent to a common 
server, which in turn relays it to every subscriber to the list 
regardless of where on the planet the recipient is, he is going to see 
it, and all your legal dept gets for appending a big if not the intended 
recipient, delete this unread, of course its only seen after reading 
that far down in the message that this is seen. The only thing the legal 
folks are getting out of such a message, is a paycheck that is a drain 
on your resources, there has not been a court rendering anyplace on the 
planet that I'm aware of ordering the reader of such a message to pay 
damages.

/rant off
-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

RE: Claws-mail - which plugin for html mails?

[Hans]

Hi, 

there is  a "claws-mail-html2-viewer" package in Ubuntu, it might also work in 
debian.

On the other hand, they are telling, that "gtkhtml2-viewer.so" as a plugin 
shall produce better results.

Hope this helps.

Best regards

Hans

Re: Claws-mail - which plugin for html mails?

[Aldo Maggi]

I perfectly agree with you, in fact I wonder why one should use a
graphic mail reader (claws-mail) which cannot show html mail just
like  the really very powerful mutt (which I myself used many years
ago)?
The conclusion is:  claws-mail, at the moment, is completely useless,
better disinstall it.

Thanks

Aldo

Il giorno Fri, 29 Jun 2018 08:24:36 -0400
Greg Wooledge  ha scritto:

> On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 10:05:47AM +0200, Aldo Maggi wrote:
> > Ok, I understand your point, but, I wonder, are you using just lynx
> > or links2 for going on Internet?  The problems you correctly point
> > out are not the same with Chromium, Firefox etc.?  
> 
> I use a web browser to browse the web, but I use mutt to read and
> send email.
> 
> The two things are completely separate for me.  And, I suspect, for
> many other Debian users.
> 
> If someone sends email which contains only HTML and not a textual
> part, mutt shows me the raw HTML.  And then I delete the email,
> because if they can't be bothered to send their words in an ordinary
> plain text message, then I can't be bothered to go out of my way to
> convert it for them.  Plus, it'll either be spam, or a stupid
> question that I have no interest in reading in the first place,
> because what kind of intelligent question could you possibly get from
> someone who sends pure-HTML email?  None.
> 

Re: Claws-mail - which plugin for html mails?

[Greg Wooledge]

On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 03:04:16PM +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> Sometimes you gotta compromise. I spent a short period of my life in
> a corporate environment. I may have lost what's left of my sparse
> sanity had I been forced to use Outlook.

Yes, work is a different story.  They're paying me to do this job, and
part of this job entails communicating with people who use Microsoft
stuff exclusively (it's the desktop standard here).

For the times when it's actually important for my job to be able to read
what someone is saying in the format that they're using ("my corrections
are shown in red below"), I will open the mail in Outlook Web App (OWA).
Which I use in google-chrome-stable.

But for non-work emails?  Forget it.

Re: Claws-mail - which plugin for html mails?

[Ben Oliver]

On 18-06-29 08:24:36, Greg Wooledge wrote:

If someone sends email which contains only HTML and not a textual part,
mutt shows me the raw HTML.  And then I delete the email, because if
they can't be bothered to send their words in an ordinary plain text
message, then I can't be bothered to go out of my way to convert it for
them.  Plus, it'll either be spam, or a stupid question that I have
no interest in reading in the first place, because what kind of
intelligent question could you possibly get from someone who sends
pure-HTML email?  None.


Hard line but I like it, and do the same. Most decent services do good 
multipart anyway.


I do have a macro to pipe an email to firefox if I absolutely *must* 
read it in html.


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Description: PGP signature

Re: Claws-mail - which plugin for html mails?

[tomas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 08:24:36AM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:

[...]

> I use a web browser to browse the web, but I use mutt to read and
> send email.

...which of course is perfectly capable of calling out into a viewer
for HTML (lynx or somesuch). But yeah...

> The two things are completely separate for me.  And, I suspect, for
> many other Debian users.

Same for me, but see below.

> If someone sends email which contains only HTML and not a textual part,
> mutt shows me the raw HTML.  And then I delete the email, because if
> they can't be bothered to send their words in an ordinary plain text
> message [...]

Sometimes you gotta compromise. I spent a short period of my life in
a corporate environment. I may have lost what's left of my sparse
sanity had I been forced to use Outlook. So I actually managed to get
fetchmail to talk to their Exchange server (IMAP). Needless to say,
most company mails were HTML (few people even knew that, and I was
in the computer tech department!).

My HTML viewer was html2text. Most probably immune to the vulnerability
we're talking about, although I wouldn't bet my farm [1] on it :-)

Cheers
[1] that one I don't have :-)
- -- tomás
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Re: Claws-mail - which plugin for html mails?

[Greg Wooledge]

On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 10:05:47AM +0200, Aldo Maggi wrote:
> Ok, I understand your point, but, I wonder, are you using just lynx or
> links2 for going on Internet?  The problems you correctly point out are
> not the same with Chromium, Firefox etc.?

I use a web browser to browse the web, but I use mutt to read and
send email.

The two things are completely separate for me.  And, I suspect, for
many other Debian users.

If someone sends email which contains only HTML and not a textual part,
mutt shows me the raw HTML.  And then I delete the email, because if
they can't be bothered to send their words in an ordinary plain text
message, then I can't be bothered to go out of my way to convert it for
them.  Plus, it'll either be spam, or a stupid question that I have
no interest in reading in the first place, because what kind of
intelligent question could you possibly get from someone who sends
pure-HTML email?  None.

Re: Claws-mail - which plugin for html mails?

[tomas]

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On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 10:05:47AM +0200, Aldo Maggi wrote:
> Ok, I understand your point, but, I wonder, are you using just lynx or
> links2 for going on Internet?  The problems you correctly point out are
> not the same with Chromium, Firefox etc.?

I wouldn't be so sure about lynx et al. Here [1] is a rough but readable
explanation on how eFail works. There are two components into it: (1)
a format like HTML, in which the client possibly follows links without
user interaction (more on that below) and (2) how to bury a MIME
boundary within HTML's baroque syntax so that for the HTML parser,
the whole (now decrypted) message forms part of that link, which will
be "given" readily to a server out there, waiting to harvest it.

More on (1): the example uses an img tag. You might argue that HTML
capable mail readers have learnt these days to not follow automatically
img tags (on privacy grounds), but there is a multitude of other links
which might be followed automatically: CSS, iframes...

Are you sure your l{ynx,inks} doesn't download any of them? Do you know
by heart all of those? Do you even know where to look them up? [2]

I for one wouldn't know better than to look into lynx/links source
code. Good luck with that.

Cheers

[1] https://thehackernews.com/2018/05/efail-pgp-email-encryption.html
[2] This isn't to make you look bad: I don't myself either! This is
   to drive home the message that "HTML" is a huge, ill-defined mess
   of standards, and that all HTML renderers out there have to be
   a steaming pile of pragmatism which is practically impossible to
   validate.

- -- tomás
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