Re: Hi, I'm using Neptune os. I'm new to Debian. I got it it successfully installsd, how do I setup network?

[David Wright]

On Fri 24 Nov 2023 at 23:52:29 (+), Chris Goody wrote:
> Neptune is based on Debian, I cant also activate my wired connection via USB 
> tethering. It says actives. But not fully on.

My notes say the following:

Connect phone with USB cable. Pull down notifications:
Tap USB,
Tap again for other uses,
Tap USB tethering.

On the computer, ifupdown is installed (the debian-installer default).
Root wrote this file:

  $ cat /etc/network/interfaces.d/tethered
  allow-hotplug usb0
  iface usb0 inet dhcp
  $ 

  # ifup usb0

  $ ip r
  default via 192.168.50.93 dev usb0 
  192.168.50.0/24 dev usb0 proto kernel scope link src 192.168.50.231 
  $ 

When finished:

  # ifdown usb0

On the phone, deselect USB tethering button.
(This may require selecting something else, like Charging Only.)
Remove cable.

(Leave ifupdown and interfaces.d/tethered.)

Cheers,
David.

Hi, I'm using Neptune os. I'm new to Debian. I got it it successfully installsd, how do I setup network?

[Chris Goody]

Neptune is based on Debian, I cant also activate my wired connection via USB 
tethering. It says actives. But not fully on.


I use Realtek drivers and rtw89.

Sent from Mail for Windows

[Solved] (Was: Re: help new install debian via WiFi)

[황병희]

Eduardo M KALINOWSKI  writes:

> On 13/09/2021 09:45, 황병희 wrote:
>> Hellow! Eduardo^^^
>> Eduardo M KALINOWSKI  writes:
>> 
>>> Try the installer with non-free firmware, pretty much all Wi-Fi cards
>>> require non-free firmware:
>>> https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/
>> Wow you are my hero!
>> How can i input the file into *the usb stick*?
>> With no error, i did download firmware-11.0.0-amd64-netinst.iso.
>> (My file system is Chrome OS that have linux shell and commands)
>
> The same way you copied the other installed: just cp the file to the
> drive. Something like
>
> # cp firmware-11.0.0-amd64-netinst.iso /dev/sdX
>
> Substitute sdX for the device your USB drive gets assigned. Be sure to
> use the whole drive, not a partition.

Thank you very so much all guys!
Eduardo, Stanislav, Andrei, thanks thanks thanks!

Here are the last screenshots:
http://forum.ubuntu-kr.org/viewtopic.php?f=15=31119=130056=cbfeb3d3e0982466ae84f1b6bd42255a#p130056

Sincerely, Byung-Hee from South Korea

Re: help new install debian via WiFi

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Lu, 13 sep 21, 21:28:24, 황병희 wrote:
> 
> i have new another notebook that is thinkpad (not chromebook).
> and i have one usb stick.
> i downloaded mini.iso file.
> and i put mini.iso in usb stick as follow commands:
> 
> #+begin_src: sh
> $ sudo cp mini.iso /dev/sda1
> $ sudo sync
> #+end_src
> 
> then i did try to boot with usb stick on thinkpad notebook.
> 
> and that showed well the some configs such as lang/contry/keyboard
> but faild to detacting internet zone.
> that did to try searching some DHCP thing all the time.
> fail and fail and so on...
> 
> so i did open chromebook and Gnus.
> 
> How can i connect WiFi zone (not DHCP) at new install (Debian 11)?

Hello,

When you copied the mini.iso to the stick it should have created a FAT 
partition that you can use to provide the necessary firmware to the 
installer, e.g. this file:

https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/firmware/bullseye/current/firmware.tar.gz

Just unplug and replug the stick and the partition should show up.

Hope this help,
Andrei
-- 
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Description: PGP signature

Re: help new install debian via WiFi

[Eduardo M KALINOWSKI]

On 13/09/2021 09:45, 황병희 wrote:

Hellow! Eduardo^^^

Eduardo M KALINOWSKI  writes:


Try the installer with non-free firmware, pretty much all Wi-Fi cards
require non-free firmware:
https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/


Wow you are my hero!
How can i input the file into *the usb stick*?

With no error, i did download firmware-11.0.0-amd64-netinst.iso.
(My file system is Chrome OS that have linux shell and commands)


The same way you copied the other installed: just cp the file to the 
drive. Something like


# cp firmware-11.0.0-amd64-netinst.iso /dev/sdX

Substitute sdX for the device your USB drive gets assigned. Be sure to 
use the whole drive, not a partition.



--
Eduardo M KALINOWSKI
edua...@kalinowski.com.br

Re: help new install debian via WiFi

[황병희]

Hellow! Eduardo^^^

Eduardo M KALINOWSKI  writes:

> Try the installer with non-free firmware, pretty much all Wi-Fi cards
> require non-free firmware: 
> https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/

Wow you are my hero!
How can i input the file into *the usb stick*?

With no error, i did download firmware-11.0.0-amd64-netinst.iso.
(My file system is Chrome OS that have linux shell and commands)

Thanks in advance,

Sincerely, Byung-Hee from South Korea

Re: help new install debian via WiFi

[Stanislav Vlasov]

2021-09-13 17:28 GMT+05:00, 황병희 :

> How can i connect WiFi zone (not DHCP) at new install (Debian 11)?

Try 
https://cdimage.debian.org/images/unofficial/non-free/images-including-firmware/
It's help me on Lenovo netbook and many HP servers.

-- 
Stanislav

Re: help new install debian via WiFi

[Eduardo M KALINOWSKI]

On 13/09/2021 09:28, 황병희 wrote:

and i put mini.iso in usb stick as follow commands:

#+begin_src: sh
$ sudo cp mini.iso /dev/sda1


That should have been /dev/sda, but since you said the installer booted 
and started, I assume it's just a typo.



$ sudo sync
#+end_src

then i did try to boot with usb stick on thinkpad notebook.

and that showed well the some configs such as lang/contry/keyboard
but faild to detacting internet zone.
that did to try searching some DHCP thing all the time.
fail and fail and so on...

so i did open chromebook and Gnus.

How can i connect WiFi zone (not DHCP) at new install (Debian 11)?


Try the installer with non-free firmware, pretty much all Wi-Fi cards 
require non-free firmware: 
https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/



--
'Back in the USSR' musica dos Beatles, por John Lenin e Ringo Stalin.

Eduardo M KALINOWSKI
edua...@kalinowski.com.br

help new install debian via WiFi

[황병희]

hellow

i did buy new notebook thinkpad ryzen.
and there is samsung galaxy phone (android).
this phone is internet router of my home.

and i am writing letter another chromebook.
this chromebook have debian 11 under chrome os.
this debian 11 is easy to connect internet.
because chrome os is detecting WiFi auto with easy.

ok man again i have to say my work in progress.

i have new another notebook that is thinkpad (not chromebook).
and i have one usb stick.
i downloaded mini.iso file.
and i put mini.iso in usb stick as follow commands:

#+begin_src: sh
$ sudo cp mini.iso /dev/sda1
$ sudo sync
#+end_src

then i did try to boot with usb stick on thinkpad notebook.

and that showed well the some configs such as lang/contry/keyboard
but faild to detacting internet zone.
that did to try searching some DHCP thing all the time.
fail and fail and so on...

so i did open chromebook and Gnus.

How can i connect WiFi zone (not DHCP) at new install (Debian 11)?


Sincerely, Byung-Hee from South Korea

Re: new to debian

[황병희]

>  See here for detailed explanation:
>
> https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList

I added five lines, thanks Karthik!

Sincerely, Byung-Hee

Re: new to debian

[Karthik]

On Sun, Sep 5, 2021, 4:15 PM 황병희  wrote:

> Hellow~
>
> Actually i am new to Debian. Especially i did install Debian 11 Bullseye
> udner Chrome OS (ARM64 MT8173 Chromebook).
>
> Before i used Ubuntu 18.04 LTS.
>
> My question is:
> Is this canonical way?
>
> #+BEGIN_SRC: sh
> soyeomul@penguin:/etc/apt$ cat sources.list
> deb https://deb.debian.org/debian bullseye main
> soyeomul@penguin:/etc/apt$
> #+END_SRC
>
> That is only one line.
>
> Are you asking that one line is enough?. If you're then, yeah that one
> line is enough for main repository binary packages


> If you need updates(security and point releases) ,sources and non-free
> packages you need an extra line


> See here for detailed explanation:

https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList

new to debian

[황병희]

Hellow~

Actually i am new to Debian. Especially i did install Debian 11 Bullseye
udner Chrome OS (ARM64 MT8173 Chromebook).

Before i used Ubuntu 18.04 LTS.

My question is:
Is this canonical way?

#+BEGIN_SRC: sh
soyeomul@penguin:/etc/apt$ cat sources.list
deb https://deb.debian.org/debian bullseye main
soyeomul@penguin:/etc/apt$
#+END_SRC

That is only one line.

Thanks for any comments!

Sincerely, Byung-Hee

Re: alguien con amavisd-new en debian

[Camaleón]

El Thu, 09 Oct 2014 13:02:14 -0600, ricky gutierrez escribió:

 El día 9 de octubre de 2014, 11:24, Camaleón noela...@gmail.com
 escribió:
 Hum... ya veo. Entonces lo que estás haciendo es clasificar los
 mensajes desde los clientes de correo no desde el servidor.
 
 si asi es

(...)

Entonces olvida amavisd-new y SA, ya que en este caso no son ellos los 
que clasifican ni organizan el spam sino Thunderbird y BB en base a sus 
propias reglas, no a las de SA. 

Si quieres otra configuración tendrás que modificar tu sistema de correo 
actual y dejar que sea el servidor de correo quien se encargue de mover 
los mensajes de spam a las carpetas que le digas pero tal y como lo 
tienes ahora no está trabajando así.

Saludos,

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alguien con amavisd-new en debian

[ricky gutierrez]

Saludos listeros , estoy teniendo un detalle con amavisd-new y el SA ,
uno de los jefes tiene su correo en blackberry y en la portatil
thunderbird ,los correos que el SA los marca como spam caen en
thunderbird en la carpeta spam , pero en el blackberry en la bandeja
inbox , tengo el amavisd-new con Mysql , y he revisado el porque los
correos que marca como spam los entrega .

Ojo los mete a la DB , pero los entrega al usuario etiquetado como SPAM

estas opciones las tengo en el amavisd.conf

$virus_quarantine_method  = 'sql:';
$spam_quarantine_method   = 'sql:';
$banned_files_quarantine_method   = 'sql:';
#$bad_header_quarantine_method = 'sql:';

puede ser un OFF-TOPIC lo se ;)


sldss

-- 
rickygm

http://gnuforever.homelinux.com


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Re: alguien con amavisd-new en debian

[Camaleón]

El Thu, 09 Oct 2014 09:40:53 -0600, ricky gutierrez escribió:

 Saludos listeros , estoy teniendo un detalle con amavisd-new y el SA ,
 uno de los jefes tiene su correo en blackberry y en la portatil
 thunderbird ,los correos que el SA los marca como spam caen en
 thunderbird en la carpeta spam , pero en el blackberry en la bandeja
 inbox , 

A mí lo que me extraña es esa diferencia de acciones entre un cliente de 
correo y otro (Thunderbird y BB), ya que supongo que la cuenta de correo 
es IMAP por lo que tendría que ser el propio servidor de correo quien 
determine dónde van a caer los mensajes que ha marcado como spam o qué 
hacer con ellos.

¿Quién se encarga de esto en tu caso? Lo habitual es que se usen reglas 
en el servidor y se filtre ahí (p. ej., yo uso Sieve para enviar el spam 
y los virus a sus respectivas carpetas IMAP).

 tengo el amavisd-new con Mysql , y he revisado el porque los
 correos que marca como spam los entrega .
 
 Ojo los mete a la DB , pero los entrega al usuario etiquetado como SPAM
 
 estas opciones las tengo en el amavisd.conf
 
 $virus_quarantine_method  = 'sql:';
 $spam_quarantine_method   = 'sql:';
 $banned_files_quarantine_method   = 'sql:';
 #$bad_header_quarantine_method = 'sql:';

Una de las variables de Amavid-New que podría influir en esto es 
$final_spam_destiny y que yo tengo definida como D_PASS para que deje 
pasar los correos y que sean clasificados/enviados a sus respectivas 
carpetas a través de Sieve pero no estoy segura que en tu caso se trate 
de eso.
 
 puede ser un OFF-TOPIC lo se ;)

Para nada :-)

Saludos,

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Re: alguien con amavisd-new en debian

[ricky gutierrez]

El día 9 de octubre de 2014, 10:00, Camaleón noela...@gmail.com escribió:
 El Thu, 09 Oct 2014 09:40:53 -0600, ricky gutierrez escribió:

 A mí lo que me extraña es esa diferencia de acciones entre un cliente de
 correo y otro (Thunderbird y BB), ya que supongo que la cuenta de correo
 es IMAP por lo que tendría que ser el propio servidor de correo quien
 determine dónde van a caer los mensajes que ha marcado como spam o qué
 hacer con ellos.

Bueno son pop , no Imap , tendre que hacer ese cambio.



 ¿Quién se encarga de esto en tu caso? Lo habitual es que se usen reglas
 en el servidor y se filtre ahí (p. ej., yo uso Sieve para enviar el spam
 y los virus a sus respectivas carpetas IMAP).

Bueno realmente no tengo reglas , solo dejo que el Spamassassin los
marque como SPAM y que el AV que tiene la pc los traslade a la carpeta
junk.



 Una de las variables de Amavid-New que podría influir en esto es
 $final_spam_destiny y que yo tengo definida como D_PASS para que deje
 pasar los correos y que sean clasificados/enviados a sus respectivas
 carpetas a través de Sieve pero no estoy segura que en tu caso se trate
 de eso.

si esa variable estoy pensando pasarla a DISCARD , umm pero el tema es
que si me cacha uno que es legitimo , tengo que ir al MySQL  a revisar
miles .

vere SIEVE , talves me hechas un cable.


 puede ser un OFF-TOPIC lo se ;)

 Para nada :-)

jejej , gracias camaleon.

rickygm

http://gnuforever.homelinux.com


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Re: alguien con amavisd-new en debian

[Camaleón]

El Thu, 09 Oct 2014 10:41:19 -0600, ricky gutierrez escribió:

 El día 9 de octubre de 2014, 10:00, Camaleón noela...@gmail.com
 escribió:
 El Thu, 09 Oct 2014 09:40:53 -0600, ricky gutierrez escribió:

 A mí lo que me extraña es esa diferencia de acciones entre un cliente
 de correo y otro (Thunderbird y BB), ya que supongo que la cuenta de
 correo es IMAP por lo que tendría que ser el propio servidor de correo
 quien determine dónde van a caer los mensajes que ha marcado como spam
 o qué hacer con ellos.
 
 Bueno son pop , no Imap , tendre que hacer ese cambio.

Hum... ya veo. Entonces lo que estás haciendo es clasificar los mensajes 
desde los clientes de correo no desde el servidor.

 ¿Quién se encarga de esto en tu caso? Lo habitual es que se usen reglas
 en el servidor y se filtre ahí (p. ej., yo uso Sieve para enviar el
 spam y los virus a sus respectivas carpetas IMAP).
 
 Bueno realmente no tengo reglas , solo dejo que el Spamassassin los
 marque como SPAM y que el AV que tiene la pc los traslade a la carpeta
 junk.

Entonces tendrás que decirle a la BB que haga lo mismo, si es que puede.

 Una de las variables de Amavid-New que podría influir en esto es
 $final_spam_destiny y que yo tengo definida como D_PASS para que deje
 pasar los correos y que sean clasificados/enviados a sus respectivas
 carpetas a través de Sieve pero no estoy segura que en tu caso se trate
 de eso.
 
 si esa variable estoy pensando pasarla a DISCARD , umm pero el tema es
 que si me cacha uno que es legitimo , tengo que ir al MySQL  a revisar
 miles .
 
 vere SIEVE , talves me hechas un cable.

Bueno, a ver... si usas POP3 no hay caso, es decir, los filtros y la 
clasificación de los mensajes los ejecutan los clientes y si éstos no 
pueden hacerlo (no sé qué tipo de clientes de correo tendrán los 
smartphones ni las BB ni con qué funcionalidades) pues adiós muy buenas.

Sieve es un lenguaje de programación bien interesante pero sólo sirve 
para cuentas IMAP (aunque quizá exista algún apaño para integrarlo en 
cuentas POP3 pero no lo recomendaría) y se ejecuta en el servidor, es 
decir, los clientes no tiene que configurar nada.

Saludos,

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Re: alguien con amavisd-new en debian

[ricky gutierrez]

El día 9 de octubre de 2014, 11:24, Camaleón noela...@gmail.com escribió:
 Hum... ya veo. Entonces lo que estás haciendo es clasificar los mensajes
 desde los clientes de correo no desde el servidor.

si asi es

 ¿Quién se encarga de esto en tu caso? Lo habitual es que se usen reglas
 en el servidor y se filtre ahí (p. ej., yo uso Sieve para enviar el
 spam y los virus a sus respectivas carpetas IMAP).

Um , vere esto con sieve


 Una de las variables de Amavid-New que podría influir en esto es
 $final_spam_destiny y que yo tengo definida como D_PASS para que deje
 pasar los correos y que sean clasificados/enviados a sus respectivas
 carpetas a través de Sieve pero no estoy segura que en tu caso se trate
 de eso.

Lo extraño es que algunos correos, no todos, los deja pasar  aun
marcados como SPAM , y le puse
$final_virus_destiny  = D_DISCARD;
#$final_banned_destiny = D_BOUNCE;
$final_spam_destiny   = D_DISCARD;


y

$sa_tag_level_deflt  = -999.0;  # add spam info headers if at, or
above that level
$sa_tag2_level_deflt = 5.0;  # add 'spam detected' headers at that level
$sa_kill_level_deflt = 5.8;  # triggers spam evasive actions (e.g. blocks mail)
$sa_dsn_cutoff_level = 30;   # spam level beyond which a DSN is not sent
$sa_crediblefrom_dsn_cutoff_level = 18; # likewise, but for a likely valid From





http://gnuforever.homelinux.com


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Re: New to Debian (Gentoo user) - package management

[Tanstaafl]

On 2014-01-03 9:18 AM, Sven Hartge s...@svenhartge.de wrote:

emerge --pretend -vuDN world
results in a list of all available updates, as well as any dependencies
that would be installed, which I can then pick and choose from. I
usually wait until newly available updates have been available for at
least a few days before installing them, to avoid nasty surprises.



apt-get -s dist-upgrade


Um... it looks like this actually performs the update?

I want to see what updates would be applied, but NOT apply them yet.

That is what the --pretend flag in gentoo does (actually the short 
version is 'emerge -pvuDN world')...



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Re: New to Debian (Gentoo user) - package management

[Alex Mestiashvili]

On 01/14/2014 12:05 PM, Tanstaafl wrote:

On 2014-01-03 9:18 AM, Sven Hartge s...@svenhartge.de wrote:

emerge --pretend -vuDN world
results in a list of all available updates, as well as any dependencies
that would be installed, which I can then pick and choose from. I
usually wait until newly available updates have been available for at
least a few days before installing them, to avoid nasty surprises.



apt-get -s dist-upgrade


Um... it looks like this actually performs the update?

I want to see what updates would be applied, but NOT apply them yet.

That is what the --pretend flag in gentoo does (actually the short 
version is 'emerge -pvuDN world')...





are there man pages in gentoo :) ?

man apt-get

-s, --simulate, --just-print, --dry-run, --recon, --no-act
   No action; perform a simulation of events that would occur 
but do not actually change the system. Configuration Item: 
APT::Get::Simulate.


   Simulated runs performed as a user will automatically 
deactivate locking (Debug::NoLocking), and if the option 
APT::Get::Show-User-Simulation-Note is set (as it is by default) a 
notice will also
   be displayed indicating that this is only a simulation. Runs 
performed as root do not trigger either NoLocking or the notice - 
superusers should know what they are doing without further warnings

   from apt-get.

   Simulated runs print out a series of lines, each 
representing a dpkg operation: configure (Conf), remove (Remv) or unpack 
(Inst). Square brackets indicate broken packages, and empty square

   brackets indicate breaks that are of no consequence (rare).


Regards,
Alex


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Re: New to Debian (Gentoo user) - package management

[Pol Hallen]

   #!/bin/sh
   # At least once a day update the index package lists and download
   # pending upgrades.
   {
 apt-get -q update  apt-get -q autoclean  apt-get -q upgrade -d -y  
apt-get -q dist-upgrade -d -y
   } 21 | mailx -s apt download output root
   exit 0


cool! thanks

Pol

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Re: New to Debian (Gentoo user) - package management

[Sven Hartge]

Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote:
 On 2014-01-03 9:18 AM, Sven Hartge s...@svenhartge.de wrote:
 emerge --pretend -vuDN world
 results in a list of all available updates, as well as any dependencies
 that would be installed, which I can then pick and choose from. I
 usually wait until newly available updates have been available for at
 least a few days before installing them, to avoid nasty surprises.

 apt-get -s dist-upgrade

 Um... it looks like this actually performs the update?

 I want to see what updates would be applied, but NOT apply them yet.

 That is what the --pretend flag in gentoo does (actually the short 
 version is 'emerge -pvuDN world')...

man apt-get:

,
|  -s, --simulate, --just-print, --dry-run, --recon, --no-act
|  No action; perform a simulation of events that would occur but do not 
actually change
|  the system. Configuration Item: APT::Get::Simulate.
`

Grüße,
S°

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Re: New to Debian (Gentoo user) - package management

[Felix C. Stegerman]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

On 2014-01-05 01:43, Chris Bannister wrote:
 On Fri, Jan 03, 2014 at 10:31:35PM +, Lisi Reisz wrote:
 On Friday 03 January 2014 14:16:34 Brian wrote:
 The '-s' can be omitted if more than one package is to
 installed.
 
 i.e., if you are requesting more than one package, it will tell
 you what it is going to install before doing it anyway.  You need
 the -s for one package, because if you have only asked for one
 package it otherwise just goes right ahead and installs it.
 
 I've always looked on it as; if you didn't ask for a particular 
 package to be installed then it won't do it without your
 permission.
 

Indeed.  I prefer aptitude to apt-get (and I'm assuming their
behaviour regarding installing packages not requested is the same --
correct me if I'm wrong).  When installing the packages you requested
does not result in more packages being installed, it just installs
them; otherwise it prompts.  And aptitude has the -P option to always
prompt.

@Tanstaafl:

Also, the -s option simulates the installation of packages (dry run,
like --pretend w/ emerge).  But if you use aptitude -P, you get a
prompt you can cancel.  Also, aptitude safe-upgrade/full-upgrade
always prompts before upgrading.

Also, aptitude has a TUI (and minesweeper), but no super cow powers
(apt-get moo vs aptitude moo).

The FAQ:
http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/ch-pkgtools.en.html,
http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/ch-pkg_basics.en.html.

The Reference:
http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch02.en.html#_basic_package_management_operations.

The Wiki: https://wiki.debian.org/Apt.

The handbook: http://debian-handbook.info/browse/wheezy/apt.html.

Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Packaging_Tool.

Also, the apt-get and aptitude man pages are pretty comprehensive.

And then there's also dpkg, dpkg-reconfigure, apt-cache, apt-file,
apt-show-versions, apt-listbugs, apt-listchanges, apt-rdepends,
update-alteratives, apt_preferences, debconf, etc.

Enjoy.


- - Felix

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Re: New to Debian (I'm a Gentoo user) - static IP vs DHCP

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Vi, 03 ian 14, 07:29:52, Tanstaafl wrote:
 
 # The primary network interface
 #allow-hotplug eth0
 auto eth0
 iface eth0 inet static
 address ###.###.###.###
 gateway ###.###.###.###
 netmask 255.255.255.0
 network ###.###.###.###
 broadcast ###.###.###.###

Since you already fixed your issue I'll just comment on your interfaces 
file. BTW, there is a man page for it: interfaces(5).

1. Do you have a specific reason for using 'auto' instead of 
'allow-hotplug'? I doubt you'll see any difference in practice.

2. Indenting makes your file easier to read, e.g.

iface eth0 inet static
address ...
gateway ...
netmask ...

3. it's safe to get rid of 'network' and 'broadcast', they are 
calculated from address and netmask ;)

4. If you prefer to keep all network settings in one file you could 
install the package 'resolvconf' and add a 'dns-nameservers' line (no, 
the 's' is not a typo, since you can add more of them, separated by 
spaces).

This is additional complexity for a machine with a static address that 
rarely changes, but I thought you should be aware of the possibility.

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: New to Debian (I'm a Gentoo user) - static IP vs DHCP

[Zenaan Harkness]

On 1/5/14, Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Vi, 03 ian 14, 07:29:52, Tanstaafl wrote:
 # The primary network interface
 #allow-hotplug eth0
 auto eth0
 iface eth0 inet static
 address ###.###.###.###
 gateway ###.###.###.###
 netmask 255.255.255.0
 network ###.###.###.###
 broadcast ###.###.###.###

 Since you already fixed your issue I'll just comment on your interfaces
 file. BTW, there is a man page for it: interfaces(5).

 3. it's safe to get rid of 'network' and 'broadcast', they are
 calculated from address and netmask ;)

Actually not. Some home adsl modems and routers these days default to
172.XX.. and 10. subnets, and Debian (Linux kernel?) chooses networks
such as 255.255.0.0 and 255.0.0.0 and correspondingly for broadcasts.

I always set these to a .../24 version, or occasionally I've even set
them less (to a smaller subnet) eg /28


 4. If you prefer to keep all network settings in one file you could
 install the package 'resolvconf' and add a 'dns-nameservers' line (no,
 the 's' is not a typo, since you can add more of them, separated by
 spaces).

Agreed. I find this very convenient. Only caveat to manually applied
DNS servers is that if your DNS is otherwise provided by your ISP, and
they change their DNS ip address (has happened to me occasionally)
then obviously the manually assigned addresses must be updated.

Best
Zenaan


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Re: New to Debian (I'm a Gentoo user) - static IP vs DHCP

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Du, 05 ian 14, 23:47:32, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
 
  3. it's safe to get rid of 'network' and 'broadcast', they are
  calculated from address and netmask ;)
 
 Actually not. Some home adsl modems and routers these days default to
 172.XX.. and 10. subnets, and Debian (Linux kernel?) chooses networks
 such as 255.255.0.0 and 255.0.0.0 and correspondingly for broadcasts.
 
I admit my knowledge is quite sketchy in this area, but this just 
doesn't make sense to me. Could you provide a more concrete example of 
address/netmask and resulting network/broadcast?

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: New to Debian (I'm a Gentoo user) - static IP vs DHCP

[Bob Proulx]

Zenaan Harkness wrote:
 Andrei POPESCU wrote:
  Tanstaafl wrote:
  # The primary network interface
  #allow-hotplug eth0
  auto eth0
  iface eth0 inet static
  address ###.###.###.###
  gateway ###.###.###.###
  netmask 255.255.255.0
  network ###.###.###.###
  broadcast ###.###.###.###
 
  Since you already fixed your issue I'll just comment on your interfaces
  file. BTW, there is a man page for it: interfaces(5).
 
  3. it's safe to get rid of 'network' and 'broadcast', they are
  calculated from address and netmask ;)
 
 Actually not. Some home adsl modems and routers these days default to
 172.XX.. and 10. subnets, and Debian (Linux kernel?) chooses networks
 such as 255.255.0.0 and 255.0.0.0 and correspondingly for broadcasts.

I think you have misread network as netmask.  The netmask is
needed.  If the netmask is specified then the network and
broadcast are not.  The program can calculate network and broadcast
from the network setting.  So set only the network and let the other
two be calculated by the program.

It used to be that the debian-installer would create those network and
broadcast entries as examples.  This was because there were
documentation examples showing how all of the options were used.  This
inadvertently caused people reading the documentation to think that
all of those options were needed.  They weren't.

Those examples have been removed and the d-i no longer creates those
entries.  Starting a couple of years ago there has been a push to
clean these up so that they are no longer distributing such examples.

Here is a reference:
  http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=630551

And so now seeing network and broadcast in the file triggers a
motherly cleanup response.  It is dirty.  It needs to be cleaned! :-)

Bob


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Re: New to Debian (Gentoo user) - package management

[Stephen Allen]

On Fri, Jan 03, 2014 at 04:29:59PM -0700, Bob Proulx wrote:
   apt-get -q update  apt-get -q autoclean  apt-get -q upgrade -d -y  
   apt-get -q dist-upgrade -d -y
 
 
 
 Some fun details that may spark some ideas...

Wow! Thanks Bob, some interesting stuff.


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Re: New to Debian (I'm a Gentoo user) - static IP vs DHCP

[Zenaan Harkness]

On 1/6/14, Bob Proulx b...@proulx.com wrote:
 Zenaan Harkness wrote:
 Andrei POPESCU wrote:
  Tanstaafl wrote:
  # The primary network interface
...
  network ###.###.###.###
  broadcast ###.###.###.###
 
  Since you already fixed your issue I'll just comment on your interfaces
  file. BTW, there is a man page for it: interfaces(5).
  3. it's safe to get rid of 'network' and 'broadcast', they are
  calculated from address and netmask ;)

 Actually not. Some home adsl modems and routers these days default to
 172.XX.. and 10. subnets, and Debian (Linux kernel?) chooses networks
 such as 255.255.0.0 and 255.0.0.0 and correspondingly for broadcasts.

 I think you have misread network as netmask.  The netmask is

Ack. My bad :)
Thank you for spotting that.
Zenaan


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Re: New to Debian (Gentoo user) - package management

[Nemeth Gyorgy]

2014-01-03 14:44 keltezéssel, Tanstaafl írta:
 In gentoo, I routinely perform pretend updates to see what updates are
 available, so a process like:
 
 eix-sync
 to synchronizes the local repo with the online one
 
 eix packagename
 shows all available versions of that package, and what repo they reside
 in (stable, testing, etc)
 
 emerge --pretend -vuDN world
 results in a list of all available updates, as well as any dependencies
 that would be installed, which I can then pick and choose from. I
 usually wait until newly available updates have been available for at
 least a few days before installing them, to avoid nasty surprises.

For regularly checking updates I use the cron-apt package, actually it
does almost the same as you wish. I configured it to check the updates
(apt-get update), download but not install the updated packages (apt-get
-d dist-upgrade). If there is packages to be updated it sends a mail
with the packagenames to be updated.


-- 
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'Death is not a bug, it's a feature'


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Re: New to Debian (Gentoo user) - package management

[Brian]

On Fri 03 Jan 2014 at 17:21:40 -0700, Robert Holtzman wrote:

 On Fri, Jan 03, 2014 at 09:20:33AM -0800, Carl Johnson wrote:
  
  You might want to look into the debian-reference package.  It is also
  available on the web at http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/.
 
 It looks like most/all this stuff is obsolete.

What a strange observation, Did you have anything in particular in mind?
Osamu Aoki is assiduous in keeping the manual current and I'm sure he
would welcome constructive proposals to improve it.


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Re: New to Debian (Gentoo user) - package management

[Robert Holtzman]

On Sat, Jan 04, 2014 at 09:50:59AM +, Brian wrote:
 On Fri 03 Jan 2014 at 17:21:40 -0700, Robert Holtzman wrote:
 
  On Fri, Jan 03, 2014 at 09:20:33AM -0800, Carl Johnson wrote:
   
   You might want to look into the debian-reference package.  It is also
   available on the web at 
   http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/.
  
  It looks like most/all this stuff is obsolete.
 
 What a strange observation, Did you have anything in particular in mind?
 Osamu Aoki is assiduous in keeping the manual current and I'm sure he
 would welcome constructive proposals to improve it.

My mistake. I had been looking at http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals and
most of those are marked as obsolete/deprecated, so I made the
assumption that...

Sorry.

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Your mail is being read by tight lipped 
NSA agents who fail to see humor in Doctor 
Strangelove 
Key ID 8D549279


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Re: New to Debian (Gentoo user) - package management

[Chris Bannister]

On Fri, Jan 03, 2014 at 10:31:35PM +, Lisi Reisz wrote:
 On Friday 03 January 2014 14:16:34 Brian wrote:
  The '-s' can be omitted if more than one package is to installed.
 
 i.e., if you are requesting more than one package, it will tell you 
 what it is going to install before doing it anyway.  You need the -s 
 for one package, because if you have only asked for one package it 
 otherwise just goes right ahead and installs it.

I've always looked on it as; if you didn't ask for a particular
package to be installed then it won't do it without your permission.

-- 
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the 
oppressing. --- Malcolm X


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New to Debian (I'm a Gentoo user) - static IP vs DHCP

[Tanstaafl]

Hello all,

First posting to the list. I'm a long time Gentoo user, but I'm playing 
with my first Debian system since many years ago.


I've been considering a wholesale change to another distro (Debian and 
FreeBSD being the top contenders) for some time now due to some of the 
changes that have happened in the last year or two with gentoo (won't go 
into details). I will soon be rolling out a new groupware system (SOGo) 
that is not supported on gentoo or FreeBSD, so Debian (no way I'm going 
RedHat) is the obvious choice for this new server - and since SOGo 
doesn't officially support FreeBSD, I will most likely use Debian for 
the new mail server as well.


I'll be posting a series of questions trying to get my head around the 
differences between Debian and Gentoo. I will rtfm as much as possible, 
but I have some questions that I need to address fairly quickly to get 
this new SOGo server ready for implementation, so some of my questions 
may seem lazy, but that will only be because time is short. Specific 
answers are appreciated, but pointers to the docs are absolutely sufficient.


First question is, I have set the system to a static IP and restarted 
the network service:


less /etc/network/interfaces

# This file describes the network interfaces available on your system
# and how to activate them. For more information, see interfaces(5).

# The loopback network interface
auto lo
iface lo inet loopback

# The primary network interface
#allow-hotplug eth0
auto eth0
iface eth0 inet static
address ###.###.###.###
gateway ###.###.###.###
netmask 255.255.255.0
network ###.###.###.###
broadcast ###.###.###.###

service networking --full-restart

But, every 10-20 seconds, I'm seeing DHCP requests in the logs (they are 
being blocked by the firewall - I'm paranoid, and implement both inbound 
AND outbound rules):



Jan  3 07:12:30 sogo dhclient: DHCPREQUEST on eth0 to ###.###.###.### port 67
Jan  3 07:12:30 sogo dhclient: send_packet: Operation not permitted
Jan  3 07:12:30 sogo kernel: [12868185.930627] (fw): IN= OUT=eth0 
SRC=###.###.###.### DST=###.###.###.### LEN=328 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=64 ID=0 DF 
PROTO=UDP SPT=68 DPT=67 LEN=308
Jan  3 07:12:49 sogo dhclient: DHCPREQUEST on eth0 to ###.###.###.### port 67
Jan  3 07:12:49 sogo dhclient: send_packet: Operation not permitted
Jan  3 07:12:49 sogo kernel: [12868204.222463] (fw): IN= OUT=eth0 
SRC=###.###.###.### DST=###.###.###.### LEN=328 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=64 ID=0 DF 
PROTO=UDP SPT=68 DPT=67 LEN=308


Since I've configured eth0 for a static IP, why are these DHCP requests 
even happening? I've looked in /etc/init.d and don't see anything about 
a DHCP client. And most importantly, how do I stop them? I know I could 
probably uninstall DHCP client, but that doesn't seem like the proper 
solution.


Thanks

Charles


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Half-OT: New to Debian (I'm a Gentoo user) - static IP vs DHCP

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Fri, 2014-01-03 at 07:29 -0500, Tanstaafl wrote:
 (Debian and FreeBSD being the top contenders)

There's a Debian BSD port too:

https://wiki.debian.org/Debian_GNU/kFreeBSD

And Arch Linux provides a FreeBSD port like approach:

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_Build_System

I made bad experiences with kFreeBSD. My main distro is Arch Linux. I
prefer Arch over Debian regarding to my exotic need, audio production
and the license policy of Debian, e.g. Linuxsampler doesn't fit to
Debian's policy regarding to it's license. IOW awesome software often
needs to be compiled by your own for Debian and it could become an
issue, when using Debian stable.

Debian Linux is closer to FreeBSD (I also have a FreeBSD install), than
Arch Linux is, since Arch comes with sytemd. I suspect that Debian will
drop init scripts too.

For servers likely Debian stable is the best way to go, but I don't have
experiences with this and if you need to compile software from upstream
you anyway need to switch to testing or unstable.

Just some thoughts,
Ralf



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Re: New to Debian (I'm a Gentoo user) - static IP vs DHCP

[Brian]

On Fri 03 Jan 2014 at 07:29:52 -0500, Tanstaafl wrote:

 Since I've configured eth0 for a static IP, why are these DHCP
 requests even happening? I've looked in /etc/init.d and don't see
 anything about a DHCP client. And most importantly, how do I stop
 them? I know I could probably uninstall DHCP client, but that
 doesn't seem like the proper solution.

You could start by taking a look at the thread at

   https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2013/10/msg00434.html


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New to Debian (Gentoo user) - package management

[Tanstaafl]

Hello all,

I have some questions about how to do certain maintenance tasks in 
Debian that I do routinely in gentoo.


I've read man apt-get, but didn't find answers to these questions. What 
I'm looking for is the equivalent commands in debian to achieve the same 
things.


In gentoo, I routinely perform pretend updates to see what updates are 
available, so a process like:


eix-sync
to synchronizes the local repo with the online one

eix packagename
shows all available versions of that package, and what repo they reside 
in (stable, testing, etc)


emerge --pretend -vuDN world
results in a list of all available updates, as well as any dependencies 
that would be installed, which I can then pick and choose from. I 
usually wait until newly available updates have been available for at 
least a few days before installing them, to avoid nasty surprises.


Is there a decent manual describing basic maintenance tasks like this?

Thanks


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SOLVED: Re: New to Debian (I'm a Gentoo user) - static IP vs DHCP

[Tanstaafl]

On 2014-01-03 8:43 AM, Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk wrote:

On Fri 03 Jan 2014 at 07:29:52 -0500, Tanstaafl wrote:


Since I've configured eth0 for a static IP, why are these DHCP
requests even happening? I've looked in /etc/init.d and don't see
anything about a DHCP client. And most importantly, how do I stop
them? I know I could probably uninstall DHCP client, but that
doesn't seem like the proper solution.



You could start by taking a look at the thread at

https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2013/10/msg00434.html


Perfect, thanks... googling didn't reveal that thread... :(

Since I hadn't cp'd my original /etc/network/interfaces file (so I 
couldn't do the 'ifdown -i  /etc/network/interfaces.bak eth0' part, I 
just found/killed the running dhcp client process.


Seems to have taken care of it.

Thx again


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Re: New to Debian (Gentoo user) - package management

[Sven Hartge]

Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote:

 In gentoo, I routinely perform pretend updates to see what updates are
 available, so a process like:

Depending on which version of Debian you installed, you will rarely get
any updates at all. Wheezy (7.x) is stable and only get security updates
and major bug fixes via point releases about every two months:
https://wiki.debian.org/DebianReleases/PointReleases

Only Testing and Unstable receive daily updates.

If you use Testing or Unstable, I advise you to install the packages
apt-listchanges and apt-listbugs.

 eix-sync
 to synchronizes the local repo with the online one

apt-get update

 eix packagename
 shows all available versions of that package, and what repo they reside 
 in (stable, testing, etc)

apt-cache show packagename

or

apt-cache policy packagename

 emerge --pretend -vuDN world
 results in a list of all available updates, as well as any dependencies 
 that would be installed, which I can then pick and choose from. I 
 usually wait until newly available updates have been available for at 
 least a few days before installing them, to avoid nasty surprises.

apt-get -s dist-upgrade

If you want to upgrade only a subset of packages, just use

apt-get install packagename [packagename ...]

 Is there a decent manual describing basic maintenance tasks like this?

You may want to start reading at
https://wiki.debian.org/SystemAdministration 


Grüße,
Sven.

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Re: New to Debian (Gentoo user) - package management

[Brian]

On Fri 03 Jan 2014 at 08:44:49 -0500, Tanstaafl wrote:

 I have some questions about how to do certain maintenance tasks in
 Debian that I do routinely in gentoo.
 
 eix-sync
 to synchronizes the local repo with the online one

   apt-get update

 eix packagename
 shows all available versions of that package, and what repo they
 reside in (stable, testing, etc)

   apt-cache packagename

and

   apt-cache policy packagename

 emerge --pretend -vuDN world
 results in a list of all available updates, as well as any
 dependencies that would be installed, which I can then pick and
 choose from. I usually wait until newly available updates have been
 available for at least a few days before installing them, to avoid
 nasty surprises.

   apt-get upgrade -s

or

   apt-get dist-upgrade -s

The '-s' can be omitted if more than one package is to installed.

 Is there a decent manual describing basic maintenance tasks like this?

apt-get(8) and apt-cache(8).


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Re: New to Debian (Gentoo user) - package management

[John Hasler]

Sven Hartge writes:
 Depending on which version of Debian you installed, you will rarely get
 any updates at all. Wheezy (7.x) is stable and only get security updates
 and major bug fixes via point releases about every two months:
 https://wiki.debian.org/DebianReleases/PointReleases

Don't wait for the point releases.  You should have security in your
sources, subscribe to the security list, and do updates as required to
get security fixes.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA


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Re: New to Debian (Gentoo user) - package management

[Miles Fidelman]

Brian wrote:

On Fri 03 Jan 2014 at 08:44:49 -0500, Tanstaafl wrote:


I have some questions about how to do certain maintenance tasks in
Debian that I do routinely in gentoo.

eix-sync
to synchronizes the local repo with the online one

snip

Is there a decent manual describing basic maintenance tasks like this?

apt-get(8) and apt-cache(8).

The Debian System, Concepts and Techniques by Martin Krafft, 
(http://debiansystem.info/) to be a pretty good reference to how things 
are organized in Debian.  Probably the most comprehensive writeup on 
Debian package management that I've seen, and some good sections on 
system admin as well. Might be a little dated though (2005) - things 
have changed a bit.


You might want to browse through http://www.debian.org/doc/books

--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.    Yogi Berra


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Re: New to Debian (Gentoo user) - package management

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Fri, Jan 03, 2014 at 08:44:49AM -0500, Tanstaafl wrote:
 Hello all,
 
 I have some questions about how to do certain maintenance tasks in
 Debian that I do routinely in gentoo.
 
 I've read man apt-get, but didn't find answers to these questions.
 What I'm looking for is the equivalent commands in debian to achieve
 the same things.
 
 In gentoo, I routinely perform pretend updates to see what updates
 are available, so a process like:
 
 eix-sync
 to synchronizes the local repo with the online one
 
 eix packagename
 shows all available versions of that package, and what repo they
 reside in (stable, testing, etc)
 
 emerge --pretend -vuDN world
 results in a list of all available updates, as well as any
 dependencies that would be installed, which I can then pick and
 choose from. I usually wait until newly available updates have been
 available for at least a few days before installing them, to avoid
 nasty surprises.
 
 Is there a decent manual describing basic maintenance tasks like this?
 
 Thanks
 

apt-get install debian-handbook

That should sort many of your questions :)

AndyC


 
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Re: New to Debian (Gentoo user) - package management

[Carl Johnson]

Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org writes:

 Hello all,

 I have some questions about how to do certain maintenance tasks in
 Debian that I do routinely in gentoo.
...
 Is there a decent manual describing basic maintenance tasks like this?

You might want to look into the debian-reference package.  It is also
available on the web at http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/.

-- 
Carl Johnsonca...@peak.org


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Re: New to Debian (Gentoo user) - package management

[Harry Putnam]

Andrew M.A. Cater amaca...@galactic.demon.co.uk writes:

 emerge --pretend -vuDN world

Welcome to another former gentoo hand.

If you have X running:
I'm pretty sure, though have never used it, that there is a little
tool on you desktop menus somewhere.  With a name like 
`Software updates', probably under system tools or some such.

I think that tool will show what is to be installed without installing
it. If you want to install them you have to indicate so... I think.




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Re: Half-OT: New to Debian (I'm a Gentoo user) - static IP vs DHCP

[Zenaan Harkness]

On 1/3/14, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote:
 On Fri, 2014-01-03 at 07:29 -0500, Tanstaafl wrote:
 (Debian and FreeBSD being the top contenders)

 There's a Debian BSD port too:
 https://wiki.debian.org/Debian_GNU/kFreeBSD

 For servers likely Debian stable is the best way to go, but I don't have
 experiences with this and if you need to compile software from upstream
 you anyway need to switch to testing or unstable.

Not true.

I compiled various software for Debian stable, a few years ago, and
git quite a few times last year, and used to regularly compile new
kernels, and years ago even Ardour, all on Debian stable. git only has
about 10 dependencies though (and a few to build the documentation),
so very straightforward.

If the software depends on some libraries that also are newer than in
Debian stable, you might have to compile those too. If your software
you want to compile has lots of new dependencies, your build process
might be a bit daunting and then yes, sid might be a better choice.
But it definitely depends.

Absolutes, are _always_ wrong.

;)


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Re: New to Debian (Gentoo user) - package management

[Lisi Reisz]

On Friday 03 January 2014 14:16:34 Brian wrote:
 The '-s' can be omitted if more than one package is to installed.

i.e., if you are requesting more than one package, it will tell you 
what it is going to install before doing it anyway.  You need the -s 
for one package, because if you have only asked for one package it 
otherwise just goes right ahead and installs it.

Lisi


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Re: New to Debian (Gentoo user) - package management

[Bob Proulx]

Brian wrote:
 Tanstaafl wrote:
  eix packagename
  shows all available versions of that package, and what repo they
  reside in (stable, testing, etc)
 
apt-cache packagename

Typo: apt-cache show packagename

 and
apt-cache policy packagename
 
  emerge --pretend -vuDN world
  results in a list of all available updates, as well as any
  dependencies that would be installed, which I can then pick and
  choose from. I usually wait until newly available updates have been
  available for at least a few days before installing them, to avoid
  nasty surprises.
 
apt-get upgrade -s
 
 or
 
apt-get dist-upgrade -s
 
 The '-s' can be omitted if more than one package is to installed.

I find that using apt-get dist-upgrade -d -y to be useful too.  It
doesn't install anything but downloads the packages that will be
installed.  It tells me what will be installed while also doing useful
work.

I have a crontab in cron daily so that when I manually install these
then everything is ready and fast and I don't have to wait on the
download part to happen.

  apt-get -q update  apt-get -q autoclean  apt-get -q upgrade -d -y  
apt-get -q dist-upgrade -d -y



Some fun details that may spark some ideas...

I have a lot of systems to maintain.  Therefore I automate as much as
I can to make things happen for me.  I have the following in
/etc/cron.daily/apt-dist-upgrade-download file:

  #!/bin/sh
  # At least once a day update the index package lists and download
  # pending upgrades.
  {
apt-get -q update  apt-get -q autoclean  apt-get -q upgrade -d -y  
apt-get -q dist-upgrade -d -y
  } 21 | mailx -s apt download output root
  exit 0

The above does not install anything.  But it does update the apt index
files (aka Packages) daily and it automatically downloads the packages
so that things are ready to go when I come to them later.

And it always sends an email from the machine.  This is a heartbeat
for me to keep track of the machine.  If I don't get the email then I
know something is wrong.  So I have cron that looks for missing email.

If you are using procmail it is convenient to have procmail filter out
mail that says nothing needs to be done.  Nothing needs to be done if
the mail says 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not
upgraded.  File those off into a folder per machine.

  :0HB
  * ^Subject: Cron root@example
  * ^/etc/cron.daily/apt-get-update-download:
  * ^0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
  machines/example/

  :0HBc
  * ^Subject: Cron root@example
  * ^/etc/cron.daily/apt-get-update-download:
  machines/example/

Then I check that folder by cron.  If I don't have a new message then
I know the machine did not email me and I have to go check it.  If
there is a problem I can check the history in the appropriate mailbox.

  #!/bin/sh
  # Use the daily mail as a keepalive.
  if [ $(find $HOME/Mail/machines/example -type f -cmin -1440 -print | wc -l) 
-eq 0 ]; then
echo example failed to email us recently
  fi
  # Prune older messages.
  find $HOME/Mail/machines/example -type f -mtime +30 -delete
  exit 0

The above is for one single machine example.  I didn't show the
expanded parameterized versions for any machine because that is not as
clear what is happening.  But you get the idea.  Always automate as
much as possible. :-)

Bob


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Re: New to Debian (Gentoo user) - package management

[Robert Holtzman]

On Fri, Jan 03, 2014 at 09:20:33AM -0800, Carl Johnson wrote:
 Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org writes:
 
  Hello all,
 
  I have some questions about how to do certain maintenance tasks in
  Debian that I do routinely in gentoo.
 ...
  Is there a decent manual describing basic maintenance tasks like this?
 
 You might want to look into the debian-reference package.  It is also
 available on the web at http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/.

It looks like most/all this stuff is obsolete.

-- 
Bob Holtzman
Your mail is being read by tight lipped 
NSA agents who fail to see humor in Doctor 
Strangelove 
Key ID 8D549279


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Re: New to Debian (Gentoo user) - package management

[Sven Hartge]

John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com wrote:
 Sven Hartge writes:

 Depending on which version of Debian you installed, you will rarely
 get any updates at all. Wheezy (7.x) is stable and only get security
 updates and major bug fixes via point releases about every two
 months: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianReleases/PointReleases

 Don't wait for the point releases.  You should have security in your
 sources, subscribe to the security list, and do updates as required to
 get security fixes.

Yes, my wording was misleading. I should not try to write technical
English after being awake for more than 30 hours ...

Grüße,
S°

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Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)

[Jon N]

On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 10:22 AM, Dan Ritter d...@randomstring.org wrote:


 ftp://download.nvidia.com/XFree86/gpu-hdmi-audio-document/gpu-hdmi-audio.html

 There you go; now you can be aware of it.
   3.1 Pre-Azalia:

   Some older GPUs included a connector to receive S/PDIF audio
   from a separate sound card, and route that audio over HDMI. This
   document does not cover such devices at all.

   3.2. Azalia:
   Newer GPUs include a fully-fledged sound card, implemented
   according to the Intel HD-audio (Azalia”) specification. This
   document covers such devices.


Well, thank you very much.  Actually, I had already posted a question
on the MythTV mail list about this question before I saw your reply.
They say they do this (use the HDMI on a discrete card for audio) all
the time :-).  I read part of the page at Nvidia, it was very helpful.

Thanks,
Jon


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Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Ma, 12 nov 13, 18:32:10, Stan Hoeppner wrote:
 
 And frankly I don't believe nVidia supports
 HDMI digital audio pass through, nor any discrete GPU card.  For
 argument's sake, let's say it does.  Then you run into the problem that
 the onboard audio chip can't pass digital audio through PCIe to the
 nVidia HDMI port.  None of them are designed to do this, that I'm aware of.

That's not necessary, the nVidia card exposes a SPDIF alsa device. The 
trick is to convince your applications to use it instead. Completely 
disabling the on-board sound should help, but then all sounds will go 
via the HDMI.

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)

[Dan Ritter]

On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 10:15:03PM -0600, Stan Hoeppner wrote:
 On 11/12/2013 7:11 PM, Doug wrote:
  On 11/12/2013 07:32 PM, Stan Hoeppner wrote:
  On 11/12/2013 5:37 PM, Jon N wrote:
  ...
  There is one an area that I'm pretty unsure of.  I am planning on
  purchasing a Nvidia video card and disabling the built in Intel video
  support.  Since I plan to use this computer as a MythTV
  frontend/backend (as well as for general web browsing/email) getting
  the audio out on the Nvidia card's HDMI port is important to my
  particular setup.  So will the audio automatically be switched to the
  Nvidia cards HDMI connector?
  No, it won't be automatic.  And frankly I don't believe nVidia supports
  HDMI digital audio pass through, nor any discrete GPU card.  For
  argument's sake, let's say it does.  Then you run into the problem that
  the onboard audio chip can't pass digital audio through PCIe to the
  nVidia HDMI port.  None of them are designed to do this, that I'm
  aware of.
 
  If I were you I'd get a mainboard with with HDMI out and use the CPU's
  GPU.  Mobos that have onboard HDMI have their audio chips wired to the
  HDMI port, the chips support PCM/AC3 digital output, and selecting the
  HDMI output for digital audio is pretty straightforward.
 
  The Intel GPU should be plenty powerful enough for HD1080 output.  If
  you decide it's not, and want to add a discrete card, you'll need a mobo
  with coaxial digital SPDIF output, or Toslink optical digital output,
  and a TV or A/V receiver that is cable of using an HDMI input for video
  while using coax or Toslink for audio.  Nearly all modern A/V receivers
  support this.  WRT LCD/Plasma TVs I have no idea how many support this.
 
  I have an NVidia GeForce GTX 550 Ti card in a machine with on-board
  Realtek 662 sound
  decoder. Normally--that is locally--sound is decoded by the Realtek on
  the mobo.
  The  NVidia card has a mini HDMI connector (I needed an adapter to
  standard)
  and the card has a sound decoder in it. 
 
 This isn't the case.  All digital audio (AC3, PCM, DTS, etc) is decoded
 at the endpoint device.  In this case that is the TV or A/V receiver.
 Everywhere else in the path the digital audio stream is simply passed
 through.
 
 The trick with Linux is getting all of the devices recognized, and being
 able to select which 'path' the digital stream should take.
 
  Using Windows XP, I could run a
  movie thru HDMI
  to my TV set and picture and sound would come thru perfectly. NVidia
  provides a driver
  for Windows that makes this just work. 
 
 And this is the key.  nVidia registers an audio output device that can
 be selected in control panel as the preferred output device.  WSS then
 directs digital audio through this device.  There is no such equivalent
 in Linux, that I'm aware of.
 

ftp://download.nvidia.com/XFree86/gpu-hdmi-audio-document/gpu-hdmi-audio.html

There you go; now you can be aware of it.
  3.1 Pre-Azalia:

  Some older GPUs included a connector to receive S/PDIF audio
  from a separate sound card, and route that audio over HDMI. This
  document does not cover such devices at all.

  3.2. Azalia:
  Newer GPUs include a fully-fledged sound card, implemented
  according to the Intel HD-audio (Azalia”) specification. This
  document covers such devices.


-dsr-


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Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)

[Stan Hoeppner]

On 11/13/2013 9:22 AM, Dan Ritter wrote:

 ftp://download.nvidia.com/XFree86/gpu-hdmi-audio-document/gpu-hdmi-audio.html

Dan, you're awesome.  I bet alot of nVidia users, especially MythTV
users, will find this immensely helpful.

-- 
Stan


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Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)

[Jon N]

On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 1:23 AM, Scott Ferguson
scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 12/11/13 09:03, Jon N wrote:
 Hi,

 I have been a Debian user for I'd guess 7 or 8 years now.  I would
 like to thank all of you that helped create a system that is so
 useful.  Despite using it for so long I am far from a power users, I
 basically rely on the fact that it works well (or if it doesn't it
 will soon :-)).

 My current computer is also about that old and I am finally planning
 on buying some new hardware.  A lot of stuff has changed in that time
 that's new to me, so I would like to ask some general questions before
 I purchase to save some potential headaches later.


 Good idea.

Thanks.


 I guess one of the 1st issues I might have to deal with is UEFI, since
 if there are any issues with that it could show up when trying to
 install the OS.  At the moment I'm not planning on installing another
 OS on the computer, but that may change.  I do have Windows XP on my
 current system, but I will probably leave it there.  I have considered
 installed another Linux distribution in the future just to see how it
 may be different.  Hopefully different distributions of Linux will
 play nicely, at least as far as the question of UEFI.

 So, to sum it up, what do I need to know about Linux, or Debian, and UEFI?

 The answer is contextual and you haven't supplied the context (what do
 you know, what are you looking at buying, what needs to be known about
 it). We could guess at an answer but at best you'd get more information
 than you'd need. :)
 e.g. the issues associated with UEFI will depend on the hardware,
 unless you are planning on regularly building new boxen a specific
 answer is likely most useful.


Does this mean I will need to know the manufacturer and possible model
of a motherboard to find out if I will have problem with UEFI?  That
will certainly make this a more difficult proposition.  At this time
my plans are to purchase a new processor, motherboard, memory, SSD and
case, at least.  I am considering an Intel processor (Pentium, G3220,
or similar) and Mini-ITX motherboard.  These boards seem to all have
Intel North Bridges on them, H81, H87 (Note: the G3220 is Haswell and
the H81, H87 are the North Bridge for that.  But I may use Ivy Bridge
if that makes things easier, which would be the H61, or H67 North
Bridge, I think).


 Perhaps a better solution is to suggest 'how' you can find the best
 answer (least irrelevant information).
 I usually recommend people research hardware to match their
 requirements, then check that hardware for support. The second step
 simply requires a search engine so you can see whether people are having
 problems with that hardware and what, if any, solutions apply. e.g.:-
 https://www.google.com/search?q=debian+Asus+Sabertooth+X79

 (with portable devices there are a couple of sites I check for
 build/install guides)


I have done some searching, but mostly to familiarize myself with some
of the newer technology before I started shopping.  I liked the idea
of posting here because it's interactive, and I thought I would have a
concentration of knowledgeable Debian users :-).  But, you are right,
a specific search, especially for specific hardware, may be more
productive.  When I get home from work I will give that a try.

Thanks,
Jon


 1. List requirements
 2. List hardware that meets requirements
 3. Check for Debian support/issues
 4. Find best prices for chosen hardware
 5. Purchase hardware
 6. Plan build
 7. Build
 [8. Beer]


 Thanks,
 Jon




 Kind regards


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Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)

[Jon N]

I did a search for Debian and Haswell (plus a couple of related
searches) and found several helpful things.  One was several posts on
Phoronx (including
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_itempx=MTM5MzU) that
suggest support is pretty good.  I have found several other posts on
some Forums about Debian where people have had some trouble, but newer
versions of the kernel usually sorted it out (but not always).

I will have to go back and make a list of the network controllers and
audio chipsets on boards I am interested in and do some more
searching.  But overall, if I stay away from exotic hardware (assuming
I recognize it when I see it :-)) I think this should work fairly
well.

There is one an area that I'm pretty unsure of.  I am planning on
purchasing a Nvidia video card and disabling the built in Intel video
support.  Since I plan to use this computer as a MythTV
frontend/backend (as well as for general web browsing/email) getting
the audio out on the Nvidia card's HDMI port is important to my
particular setup.  So will the audio automatically be switched to the
Nvidia cards HDMI connector?  I realize this question doesn't
reference an actual hardware (what boards, what version, what sound
system will be installed, etc), so if there is possibly anyway to
generalize the answer that would be appreciated.  At this point I can
say I would let the Debian Installer install the default sound system,
what ever that would be.  I run 'Testing' on my current computer, but
don't really need to, so may choose 'Stable' for the new hardware.

Thanks,
Jon


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Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)

[Stan Hoeppner]

On 11/12/2013 5:37 PM, Jon N wrote:
...
 There is one an area that I'm pretty unsure of.  I am planning on
 purchasing a Nvidia video card and disabling the built in Intel video
 support.  Since I plan to use this computer as a MythTV
 frontend/backend (as well as for general web browsing/email) getting
 the audio out on the Nvidia card's HDMI port is important to my
 particular setup.  So will the audio automatically be switched to the
 Nvidia cards HDMI connector?

No, it won't be automatic.  And frankly I don't believe nVidia supports
HDMI digital audio pass through, nor any discrete GPU card.  For
argument's sake, let's say it does.  Then you run into the problem that
the onboard audio chip can't pass digital audio through PCIe to the
nVidia HDMI port.  None of them are designed to do this, that I'm aware of.

If I were you I'd get a mainboard with with HDMI out and use the CPU's
GPU.  Mobos that have onboard HDMI have their audio chips wired to the
HDMI port, the chips support PCM/AC3 digital output, and selecting the
HDMI output for digital audio is pretty straightforward.

The Intel GPU should be plenty powerful enough for HD1080 output.  If
you decide it's not, and want to add a discrete card, you'll need a mobo
with coaxial digital SPDIF output, or Toslink optical digital output,
and a TV or A/V receiver that is cable of using an HDMI input for video
while using coax or Toslink for audio.  Nearly all modern A/V receivers
support this.  WRT LCD/Plasma TVs I have no idea how many support this.

-- 
Stan


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Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)

[Scott Ferguson]

On 13/11/13 10:37, Jon N wrote:
 I did a search for Debian and Haswell (plus a couple of related
 searches) and found several helpful things.  One was several posts on
 Phoronx (including
 http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_itempx=MTM5MzU) that
 suggest support is pretty good.  I have found several other posts on
 some Forums about Debian where people have had some trouble, but newer
 versions of the kernel usually sorted it out (but not always).
 
 I will have to go back and make a list of the network controllers and
 audio chipsets on boards I am interested in and do some more
 searching.  But overall, if I stay away from exotic hardware (assuming
 I recognize it when I see it :-)) I think this should work fairly
 well.
 
 There is one an area that I'm pretty unsure of.  I am planning on
 purchasing a Nvidia video card and disabling the built in Intel video
 support.  Since I plan to use this computer as a MythTV
 frontend/backend (as well as for general web browsing/email) getting
 the audio out on the Nvidia card's HDMI port is important to my
 particular setup.  So will the audio automatically be switched to the
 Nvidia cards HDMI connector?  I realize this question doesn't
 reference an actual hardware (what boards, what version, what sound
 system will be installed, etc), so if there is possibly anyway to
 generalize the answer that would be appreciated.  At this point I can
 say I would let the Debian Installer install the default sound system,
 what ever that would be.  I run 'Testing' on my current computer, but
 don't really need to, so may choose 'Stable' for the new hardware.
 
 Thanks,
 Jon
 
 

I'd just narrow down the hardware you're looking for as you've done then
pick a specific example of a board the features it - then search for
debian support for that board (I usually do that in store on my phone
unless I'm ordering it online).

Those (mythTV) questions are often best answered by your local LUG or
the mythTV forums as they can generally suggest current best buys. Now
that you've now supplied the primary context ;)   mythTV, it's easier to
find a solution.



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Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)

[Scott Ferguson]

On 13/11/13 01:57, Jon N wrote:
 On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 1:23 AM, Scott Ferguson
 scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 12/11/13 09:03, Jon N wrote:
 Hi,

snipped



 I guess one of the 1st issues I might have to deal with is UEFI, since
 if there are any issues with that it could show up when trying to
 install the OS.  At the moment I'm not planning on installing another
 OS on the computer, but that may change.  I do have Windows XP on my
 current system, but I will probably leave it there.  I have considered
 installed another Linux distribution in the future just to see how it
 may be different.  Hopefully different distributions of Linux will
 play nicely, at least as far as the question of UEFI.

 So, to sum it up, what do I need to know about Linux, or Debian, and UEFI?

 The answer is contextual and you haven't supplied the context (what do
 you know, what are you looking at buying, what needs to be known about
 it). We could guess at an answer but at best you'd get more information
 than you'd need. :)
 e.g. the issues associated with UEFI will depend on the hardware,
 unless you are planning on regularly building new boxen a specific
 answer is likely most useful.

 
 Does this mean I will need to know the manufacturer and possible model
 of a motherboard to find out if I will have problem with UEFI?  That
 will certainly make this a more difficult proposition.  

Sorry, but UEFI isn't always implemented identically (it's dependant on
firmware). There are also some issues with installing Debian64 and UEFI.

In every case I'm aware of it's possible to install Debian, but some
cases call for different approaches (GRUB2 or EFI stub) hence my
suggestion to focus on the specifics for the hardware you intend to use
- just to save you time and hassle.

snipped


Kind regards


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Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)

[Doug]

On 11/12/2013 07:32 PM, Stan Hoeppner wrote:

On 11/12/2013 5:37 PM, Jon N wrote:
...

There is one an area that I'm pretty unsure of.  I am planning on
purchasing a Nvidia video card and disabling the built in Intel video
support.  Since I plan to use this computer as a MythTV
frontend/backend (as well as for general web browsing/email) getting
the audio out on the Nvidia card's HDMI port is important to my
particular setup.  So will the audio automatically be switched to the
Nvidia cards HDMI connector?

No, it won't be automatic.  And frankly I don't believe nVidia supports
HDMI digital audio pass through, nor any discrete GPU card.  For
argument's sake, let's say it does.  Then you run into the problem that
the onboard audio chip can't pass digital audio through PCIe to the
nVidia HDMI port.  None of them are designed to do this, that I'm aware of.

If I were you I'd get a mainboard with with HDMI out and use the CPU's
GPU.  Mobos that have onboard HDMI have their audio chips wired to the
HDMI port, the chips support PCM/AC3 digital output, and selecting the
HDMI output for digital audio is pretty straightforward.

The Intel GPU should be plenty powerful enough for HD1080 output.  If
you decide it's not, and want to add a discrete card, you'll need a mobo
with coaxial digital SPDIF output, or Toslink optical digital output,
and a TV or A/V receiver that is cable of using an HDMI input for video
while using coax or Toslink for audio.  Nearly all modern A/V receivers
support this.  WRT LCD/Plasma TVs I have no idea how many support this.

I have an NVidia GeForce GTX 550 Ti card in a machine with on-board 
Realtek 662 sound
decoder. Normally--that is locally--sound is decoded by the Realtek on 
the mobo.

The  NVidia card has a mini HDMI connector (I needed an adapter to standard)
and the card has a sound decoder in it. Using Windows XP, I could run a 
movie thru HDMI
to my TV set and picture and sound would come thru perfectly. NVidia 
provides a driver
for Windows that makes this just work. I never could get the sound to 
work to the TV
from my PCLinuxOS system, but obviously, it's THERE!  (The video comes 
thru the TV OK.)
One contributor to the PCLOS forum who seemed to know what he was doing 
tried very
hard to make the sound work, but without success. (Ideally, it should be 
possible to

get both sound and video _at the same time_ both locally and at the TV.)
Just so you know.

--doug


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Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)

[Jon N]

On Nov 12, 2013 7:32 PM, Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com wrote:

 On 11/12/2013 5:37 PM, Jon N wrote:
 ...
  There is one an area that I'm pretty unsure of.  I am planning on
  purchasing a Nvidia video card and disabling the built in Intel video
  support.  Since I plan to use this computer as a MythTV
  frontend/backend (as well as for general web browsing/email) getting
  the audio out on the Nvidia card's HDMI port is important to my
  particular setup.  So will the audio automatically be switched to the
  Nvidia cards HDMI connector?

 No, it won't be automatic.  And frankly I don't believe nVidia supports
 HDMI digital audio pass through, nor any discrete GPU card.  For
 argument's sake, let's say it does.  Then you run into the problem that
 the onboard audio chip can't pass digital audio through PCIe to the
 nVidia HDMI port.  None of them are designed to do this, that I'm aware
of.

Wow, I'm glad I asked that question :-). If I understand this correctly it
it doesn't matter if there is any video hardware on the mainboard, in the
processor, or none at all, you still can't get sound from a audio chipset
on the mainboard to the video card's HDMI connector anyway.


 If I were you I'd get a mainboard with with HDMI out and use the CPU's
 GPU.  Mobos that have onboard HDMI have their audio chips wired to the
 HDMI port, the chips support PCM/AC3 digital output, and selecting the
 HDMI output for digital audio is pretty straightforward.

I think pretty much all the Mobos have HDMI in them, especially since they
support a processor line that all has built in video.  I was planning on
Nvidia simply because a) I use it now and b) I am under the impression that
they have better overall support (i.e.: just work better).  But I may be
underestimating how well the built in Intel video solution works.  And it
would same me money by not purchasing a new board, use less electricity
(love that), and maybe even make the system quieter (no fan on a separate
video card).  I will check over at the MythTV mailing list about it.


 The Intel GPU should be plenty powerful enough for HD1080 output.  If
 you decide it's not, and want to add a discrete card, you'll need a mobo
 with coaxial digital SPDIF output, or Toslink optical digital output,
 and a TV or A/V receiver that is cable of using an HDMI input for video
 while using coax or Toslink for audio.  Nearly all modern A/V receivers
 support this.  WRT LCD/Plasma TVs I have no idea how many support this.

I currently use my DVI out to HDMI in on my receiver, and s/pdif for the
audio, it works fine.  I thought it would be nice to have it all in one.  I
think the HDMI supports higher bandwidth for the audio, but I'm not sure
anything I'm playing would need it anyway.

Thanks,

Jon

Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)

[Jon N]

On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 7:33 PM, Scott Ferguson
scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com wrote:


 I'd just narrow down the hardware you're looking for as you've done then
 pick a specific example of a board the features it - then search for
 debian support for that board (I usually do that in store on my phone
 unless I'm ordering it online).

I do see more post regarding a particular motherboard than specific
chipsets, that may be easier.  So far my searches have only turned up
a few boards I'd be interested in, so if one didn't pan out at least
there wouldn't be a long list to go through.

 Those (mythTV) questions are often best answered by your local LUG or
 the mythTV forums as they can generally suggest current best buys. Now
 that you've now supplied the primary context ;)   mythTV, it's easier to
 find a solution.

I'm headed to the MythTV list group next.


Thanks,
Jon


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Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)

[Stan Hoeppner]

On 11/12/2013 7:11 PM, Doug wrote:
 On 11/12/2013 07:32 PM, Stan Hoeppner wrote:
 On 11/12/2013 5:37 PM, Jon N wrote:
 ...
 There is one an area that I'm pretty unsure of.  I am planning on
 purchasing a Nvidia video card and disabling the built in Intel video
 support.  Since I plan to use this computer as a MythTV
 frontend/backend (as well as for general web browsing/email) getting
 the audio out on the Nvidia card's HDMI port is important to my
 particular setup.  So will the audio automatically be switched to the
 Nvidia cards HDMI connector?
 No, it won't be automatic.  And frankly I don't believe nVidia supports
 HDMI digital audio pass through, nor any discrete GPU card.  For
 argument's sake, let's say it does.  Then you run into the problem that
 the onboard audio chip can't pass digital audio through PCIe to the
 nVidia HDMI port.  None of them are designed to do this, that I'm
 aware of.

 If I were you I'd get a mainboard with with HDMI out and use the CPU's
 GPU.  Mobos that have onboard HDMI have their audio chips wired to the
 HDMI port, the chips support PCM/AC3 digital output, and selecting the
 HDMI output for digital audio is pretty straightforward.

 The Intel GPU should be plenty powerful enough for HD1080 output.  If
 you decide it's not, and want to add a discrete card, you'll need a mobo
 with coaxial digital SPDIF output, or Toslink optical digital output,
 and a TV or A/V receiver that is cable of using an HDMI input for video
 while using coax or Toslink for audio.  Nearly all modern A/V receivers
 support this.  WRT LCD/Plasma TVs I have no idea how many support this.

 I have an NVidia GeForce GTX 550 Ti card in a machine with on-board
 Realtek 662 sound
 decoder. Normally--that is locally--sound is decoded by the Realtek on
 the mobo.
 The  NVidia card has a mini HDMI connector (I needed an adapter to
 standard)
 and the card has a sound decoder in it. 

This isn't the case.  All digital audio (AC3, PCM, DTS, etc) is decoded
at the endpoint device.  In this case that is the TV or A/V receiver.
Everywhere else in the path the digital audio stream is simply passed
through.

The trick with Linux is getting all of the devices recognized, and being
able to select which 'path' the digital stream should take.

 Using Windows XP, I could run a
 movie thru HDMI
 to my TV set and picture and sound would come thru perfectly. NVidia
 provides a driver
 for Windows that makes this just work. 

And this is the key.  nVidia registers an audio output device that can
be selected in control panel as the preferred output device.  WSS then
directs digital audio through this device.  There is no such equivalent
in Linux, that I'm aware of.

 I never could get the sound to
 work to the TV
 from my PCLinuxOS system, but obviously, it's THERE!  (The video comes
 thru the TV OK.)
 One contributor to the PCLOS forum who seemed to know what he was doing
 tried very
 hard to make the sound work, but without success. (Ideally, it should be
 possible to
 get both sound and video _at the same time_ both locally and at the TV.)
 Just so you know.

Which is why I recommended the mobo-down HDMI solution, which doesn't
have these problems of output device selection.

-- 
Stan


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Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)

[Jon N]

On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 7:42 PM, Scott Ferguson
scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com wrote:

---big snip---

 Sorry, but UEFI isn't always implemented identically (it's dependant on
 firmware). There are also some issues with installing Debian64 and UEFI.

 In every case I'm aware of it's possible to install Debian, but some
 cases call for different approaches (GRUB2 or EFI stub) hence my
 suggestion to focus on the specifics for the hardware you intend to use
 - just to save you time and hassle.

Well, there is always at least some small chance for a problem, but
overall I feel fairly confident (hopefully not overly so).  When I
narrow down my choice to a specific motherboard I'll do a search for
it and Linux, and maybe ask here before I purchase.

Thanks,
Jon


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Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)

[Stan Hoeppner]

On 11/12/2013 10:09 PM, Jon N wrote:
 On Nov 12, 2013 7:32 PM, Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com wrote:

 On 11/12/2013 5:37 PM, Jon N wrote:
 ...
 There is one an area that I'm pretty unsure of.  I am planning on
 purchasing a Nvidia video card and disabling the built in Intel video
 support.  Since I plan to use this computer as a MythTV
 frontend/backend (as well as for general web browsing/email) getting
 the audio out on the Nvidia card's HDMI port is important to my
 particular setup.  So will the audio automatically be switched to the
 Nvidia cards HDMI connector?

 No, it won't be automatic.  And frankly I don't believe nVidia supports
 HDMI digital audio pass through, nor any discrete GPU card.  For
 argument's sake, let's say it does.  Then you run into the problem that
 the onboard audio chip can't pass digital audio through PCIe to the
 nVidia HDMI port.  None of them are designed to do this, that I'm aware
 of.
 
 Wow, I'm glad I asked that question :-). If I understand this correctly it
 it doesn't matter if there is any video hardware on the mainboard, in the
 processor, or none at all, you still can't get sound from a audio chipset
 on the mainboard to the video card's HDMI connector anyway.

That's not actually how it works.  The OS directs digital audio.  In the
case of a mobo audio chip, digital audio is sent to this chip no matter
what, and it either decodes it to analog and dumps it out the discrete
analog ports, or it passes the digital stream unmolested through a
digital connector, either HDMI, coax, or Toslink.  In this case, there
are discrete mobo traces from the audio chip to each of these 3 outputs.
 You select the audio output in the driver.  The chip then passes it to
the connector you choose.

In the case of sending digital audio out the HDMI connector on a
graphics card, this is done purely in software, and the data stream
never goes to the audio chip.  It's sent from the application through
the audio driver directly to the video card HDMI drive chip.

The reason I mentioned going from the audio chip to the HDMI of the vid
card is that, AFAIK, the Alsa driver doesn't support multiple digital
out devices, and neither nVidia/ATI support HDMI audio output in their
drivers.

If you use a mobo audio chip, its driver should allow you to select any
of the audio ports on the board.  You may have to do it statically in a
config file instead of selecting it on the fly as in MS Windows, but you
should be able to use any connector on the back panel nonetheless.

So again, if you want to send video+audio over a single HDMI cable to
the TV, I think this is your only option.

 If I were you I'd get a mainboard with with HDMI out and use the CPU's
 GPU.  Mobos that have onboard HDMI have their audio chips wired to the
 HDMI port, the chips support PCM/AC3 digital output, and selecting the
 HDMI output for digital audio is pretty straightforward.
 
 I think pretty much all the Mobos have HDMI in them, especially since they
 support a processor line that all has built in video.  

Not by a long shot.  Only about half the boards available at Newegg have
HDMI.  And, obviously, all boards lacking integrated GPUs, or supporting
AMD/Intel performance CPUs with no GPU, do not have HDMI.  These are
your high end SLI/X-fire boards.  These have integrated audio chips but
their digital out is limited to Toslink/coax.  This is no problem in MS
Windows as you can select the HDMI output on the discrete GPU board.
With Linux, thus far, it appears one is SOL.

 I was planning on
 Nvidia simply because a) I use it now and b) I am under the impression that
 they have better overall support (i.e.: just work better).  But I may be
 underestimating how well the built in Intel video solution works.  And it
 would same me money by not purchasing a new board, use less electricity
 (love that), and maybe even make the system quieter (no fan on a separate
 video card).  I will check over at the MythTV mailing list about it.

2D video processing takes almost no GPU horsepower at all.  Any modern
CPU w/integrated GPU can handle broadcast HDTV or Blue Ray HD video
without breaking a sweat, and so can any modern mobo GPU.  It's 3D
gaming where they have weakness, especially at high resolutions and high
texture detail.  But if you're only doing video, any of them is more
than sufficient.

 The Intel GPU should be plenty powerful enough for HD1080 output.  If
 you decide it's not, and want to add a discrete card, you'll need a mobo
 with coaxial digital SPDIF output, or Toslink optical digital output,
 and a TV or A/V receiver that is cable of using an HDMI input for video
 while using coax or Toslink for audio.  Nearly all modern A/V receivers
 support this.  WRT LCD/Plasma TVs I have no idea how many support this.
 
 I currently use my DVI out to HDMI in on my receiver, and s/pdif for the
 audio, it works fine.  I thought it would be nice to have it all in one.  I

It is nicer.  And it's a couple of clicks to make it 

Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)

[Scott Ferguson]

On 13/11/13 15:21, Jon N wrote:
 On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 7:42 PM, Scott Ferguson
 scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 ---big snip---

 Sorry, but UEFI isn't always implemented identically (it's dependant on
 firmware). There are also some issues with installing Debian64 and UEFI.

 In every case I'm aware of it's possible to install Debian, but some
 cases call for different approaches (GRUB2 or EFI stub) hence my
 suggestion to focus on the specifics for the hardware you intend to use
 - just to save you time and hassle.
 
 Well, there is always at least some small chance for a problem, but
 overall I feel fairly confident (hopefully not overly so).

No reason not to be. At least you are now aware that there is not one
approach that works for all implementations.

  When I
 narrow down my choice to a specific motherboard I'll do a search for
 it and Linux, and maybe ask here before I purchase.


That'd be my suggestion. If you're lucky someone like Stan 'might'
suggest an alternative that provides better value for money, at the very
least someone will suggest an installation strategy that'll give you the
least headaches and hassle.

 
 Thanks,
 Jon
 .
 


With applications like mythTV you'll find choosing a particular
motherboard that's a favourite amongst that community will not only
ensure it just works, but that in the long run it will continue to be
well supported.

Other factors will be value for money i.e. not duplicating video card
functionality in the tv tuner (or on the mb), not buying a board with a
NIC/s, video, or sound builtin that you won't use (e.g. if you plan on
duplicating those functions in cards or externals (USB sound etc).
You'll then be able to match the mb with the best PS for the job (not to
big or noisy) and be advised if the board will not be too crowded with
the cards you do intend to put into it - that's important if the device
is going to store all your movies, render, and serve - and you want it
to be silent.

Will you be using a remote control? Will it have builtin support for IR?
Does it need a special case? etc.


Kind regards.


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Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)

[Jon N]

Hi,

I have been a Debian user for I'd guess 7 or 8 years now.  I would
like to thank all of you that helped create a system that is so
useful.  Despite using it for so long I am far from a power users, I
basically rely on the fact that it works well (or if it doesn't it
will soon :-)).

My current computer is also about that old and I am finally planning
on buying some new hardware.  A lot of stuff has changed in that time
that's new to me, so I would like to ask some general questions before
I purchase to save some potential headaches later.

I guess one of the 1st issues I might have to deal with is UEFI, since
if there are any issues with that it could show up when trying to
install the OS.  At the moment I'm not planning on installing another
OS on the computer, but that may change.  I do have Windows XP on my
current system, but I will probably leave it there.  I have considered
installed another Linux distribution in the future just to see how it
may be different.  Hopefully different distributions of Linux will
play nicely, at least as far as the question of UEFI.

So, to sum it up, what do I need to know about Linux, or Debian, and UEFI?

Thanks,
Jon


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Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)

[Karl E. Jorgensen]

Hi

On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 05:03:44PM -0500, Jon N wrote:
 Hi,
 
 I have been a Debian user for I'd guess 7 or 8 years now.  I would
 like to thank all of you that helped create a system that is so
 useful.  Despite using it for so long I am far from a power users, I
 basically rely on the fact that it works well (or if it doesn't it
 will soon :-)).
 
 My current computer is also about that old and I am finally planning
 on buying some new hardware.  A lot of stuff has changed in that time
 that's new to me, so I would like to ask some general questions before
 I purchase to save some potential headaches later.

Rule of thumb: stick with off-the-shelf stuff :-) You don't want to be
the first guy with some esoteric hardware.

 I guess one of the 1st issues I might have to deal with is UEFI, since
 if there are any issues with that it could show up when trying to
 install the OS.  At the moment I'm not planning on installing another
 OS on the computer, but that may change.  I do have Windows XP on my
 current system, but I will probably leave it there.  I have considered
 installed another Linux distribution in the future just to see how it
 may be different.  Hopefully different distributions of Linux will
 play nicely, at least as far as the question of UEFI.

I cannot help you in the UEFI area, but it should be relatively easy
to convert your XP installation into a virtual machine - should run
fine inside e.g. VirtualBox.

 So, to sum it up, what do I need to know about Linux, or Debian, and UEFI?

It probably just works :-) Only booting a single OS makes things
much less error-prone here.

-- 
Karl E. Jorgensen


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Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)

[David Christensen]

On 11/11/2013 02:03 PM, Jon N wrote:

So, to sum it up, what do I need to know about Linux, or Debian, and UEFI?


http://lists.debian.org/cgi-bin/search?P=uefiDEFAULTOP=orsort=dateHITSPERPAGE=100


HTH,

David


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Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)

[Neal Murphy]

On Monday, November 11, 2013 05:25:18 PM Karl E. Jorgensen wrote:
 Hi
 
 On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 05:03:44PM -0500, Jon N wrote:
  Hi,
  
  I have been a Debian user for I'd guess 7 or 8 years now.  I would
  like to thank all of you that helped create a system that is so
  useful.  Despite using it for so long I am far from a power users, I
  basically rely on the fact that it works well (or if it doesn't it
  will soon :-)).
  
  My current computer is also about that old and I am finally planning
  on buying some new hardware.  A lot of stuff has changed in that time
  that's new to me, so I would like to ask some general questions before
  I purchase to save some potential headaches later.
 
 Rule of thumb: stick with off-the-shelf stuff :-) You don't want to be
 the first guy with some esoteric hardware.

To expand on this point a little, buy mainboards, NICs (even if built-in) and 
video cards that were manufactured not much later than early 2012. Debian 
stable doesn't necessarily support all newer hardware.


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Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)

[Jon N]

Thanks Karl - I was thinking it would 'just work', but wanted to make
sure.  And leaving Windows out of the mix probably doesn't hurt
either.

On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 5:25 PM, Karl E. Jorgensen
k...@jorgensen.org.uk wrote:
 Hi

 On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 05:03:44PM -0500, Jon N wrote:
 Hi,

 I have been a Debian user for I'd guess 7 or 8 years now.  I would
 like to thank all of you that helped create a system that is so
 useful.  Despite using it for so long I am far from a power users, I
 basically rely on the fact that it works well (or if it doesn't it
 will soon :-)).

 My current computer is also about that old and I am finally planning
 on buying some new hardware.  A lot of stuff has changed in that time
 that's new to me, so I would like to ask some general questions before
 I purchase to save some potential headaches later.

 Rule of thumb: stick with off-the-shelf stuff :-) You don't want to be
 the first guy with some esoteric hardware.

 I guess one of the 1st issues I might have to deal with is UEFI, since
 if there are any issues with that it could show up when trying to
 install the OS.  At the moment I'm not planning on installing another
 OS on the computer, but that may change.  I do have Windows XP on my
 current system, but I will probably leave it there.  I have considered
 installed another Linux distribution in the future just to see how it
 may be different.  Hopefully different distributions of Linux will
 play nicely, at least as far as the question of UEFI.

 I cannot help you in the UEFI area, but it should be relatively easy
 to convert your XP installation into a virtual machine - should run
 fine inside e.g. VirtualBox.

 So, to sum it up, what do I need to know about Linux, or Debian, and UEFI?

 It probably just works :-) Only booting a single OS makes things
 much less error-prone here.

 --
 Karl E. Jorgensen


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Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)

[Jon N]

Neal,

Well, I think you've found my weak point.  I have been looking at
fairly new stuff.  When shopping for processors I found there was
little difference in price between Intel's Haswell verses Ivy Bridge
(at least for Pentiums, which what I'm thinking of getting).  So the
mainboards have new chipsets (either H81 or H87).  Is the chipset an
issue?

I was going to go for an entry level Nvidia graphics card, so I don't
think that shouldn't be a problem.  And the Audio and NIC chips vary
by the board, which I haven't selected yet, so that will come next.

Jon

On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 6:22 PM, Neal Murphy neal.p.mur...@alum.wpi.edu wrote:
 On Monday, November 11, 2013 05:25:18 PM Karl E. Jorgensen wrote:
 Hi

 On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 05:03:44PM -0500, Jon N wrote:
  Hi,
 
  I have been a Debian user for I'd guess 7 or 8 years now.  I would
  like to thank all of you that helped create a system that is so
  useful.  Despite using it for so long I am far from a power users, I
  basically rely on the fact that it works well (or if it doesn't it
  will soon :-)).
 
  My current computer is also about that old and I am finally planning
  on buying some new hardware.  A lot of stuff has changed in that time
  that's new to me, so I would like to ask some general questions before
  I purchase to save some potential headaches later.

 Rule of thumb: stick with off-the-shelf stuff :-) You don't want to be
 the first guy with some esoteric hardware.

 To expand on this point a little, buy mainboards, NICs (even if built-in) and
 video cards that were manufactured not much later than early 2012. Debian
 stable doesn't necessarily support all newer hardware.


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Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)

[Neal Murphy]

On Monday, November 11, 2013 09:28:26 PM Jon N wrote:
 Neal,
 
 Well, I think you've found my weak point.  I have been looking at
 fairly new stuff.  When shopping for processors I found there was
 little difference in price between Intel's Haswell verses Ivy Bridge
 (at least for Pentiums, which what I'm thinking of getting).  So the
 mainboards have new chipsets (either H81 or H87).  Is the chipset an
 issue?

It can be. If the chipset isn't supported, the kernel mayn't know to or know 
how to walk the device tree, or simply know how, to initialize all the buses, 
bridges, and devices. Alas, I was unable to find any document anywhere that 
states which chipsets (even just the 20 newest) that a kernel supports when I 
looked 2-4 years ago.


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Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)

[Jude DaShiell]

Avoid the mistake I made.  Along with your install media, get all the 
firmware drivers for your flavor of hardware and have them on hand 
expecting to use them to install your system.  I didn't earlier and 
couldn't wipe windows vista off a dell laptop.  Some ambiguity in terms 
of firmware requirements might be resolved if the installer program for 
debian told the user if there was any hardware for which no debian 
firmware exists and also told the installer in the other case that 
package's x and y are needed and once these become available system 
installation should not have any further missing firmware issues.  My 
case with the intel dell laptop was that non-free drivers were needed 
and the installer couldn't get them but I didn't find out which packages 
to download from the installer.  What I may do the next time I take a 
crack at that laptop is to find and use the firmware distribution of 
debian iso if it still exists, if that can come up talking when I do the 
install.

On Mon, 11 Nov 2013, Neal Murphy wrote:

 On Monday, November 11, 2013 09:28:26 PM Jon N wrote:
  Neal,
  
  Well, I think you've found my weak point.  I have been looking at
  fairly new stuff.  When shopping for processors I found there was
  little difference in price between Intel's Haswell verses Ivy Bridge
  (at least for Pentiums, which what I'm thinking of getting).  So the
  mainboards have new chipsets (either H81 or H87).  Is the chipset an
  issue?
 
 It can be. If the chipset isn't supported, the kernel mayn't know to or know 
 how to walk the device tree, or simply know how, to initialize all the buses, 
 bridges, and devices. Alas, I was unable to find any document anywhere that 
 states which chipsets (even just the 20 newest) that a kernel supports when I 
 looked 2-4 years ago.
 
 
 

---
jude jdash...@shellworld.net
Avoid the Gates Of Hell, use Linux!


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Re: Questions about new hardware Debian (or Linux in general)

[Scott Ferguson]

On 12/11/13 09:03, Jon N wrote:
 Hi,
 
 I have been a Debian user for I'd guess 7 or 8 years now.  I would
 like to thank all of you that helped create a system that is so
 useful.  Despite using it for so long I am far from a power users, I
 basically rely on the fact that it works well (or if it doesn't it
 will soon :-)).
 
 My current computer is also about that old and I am finally planning
 on buying some new hardware.  A lot of stuff has changed in that time
 that's new to me, so I would like to ask some general questions before
 I purchase to save some potential headaches later.


Good idea.


 
 I guess one of the 1st issues I might have to deal with is UEFI, since
 if there are any issues with that it could show up when trying to
 install the OS.  At the moment I'm not planning on installing another
 OS on the computer, but that may change.  I do have Windows XP on my
 current system, but I will probably leave it there.  I have considered
 installed another Linux distribution in the future just to see how it
 may be different.  Hopefully different distributions of Linux will
 play nicely, at least as far as the question of UEFI.
 
 So, to sum it up, what do I need to know about Linux, or Debian, and UEFI?

The answer is contextual and you haven't supplied the context (what do
you know, what are you looking at buying, what needs to be known about
it). We could guess at an answer but at best you'd get more information
than you'd need. :)
e.g. the issues associated with UEFI will depend on the hardware,
unless you are planning on regularly building new boxen a specific
answer is likely most useful.


Perhaps a better solution is to suggest 'how' you can find the best
answer (least irrelevant information).
I usually recommend people research hardware to match their
requirements, then check that hardware for support. The second step
simply requires a search engine so you can see whether people are having
problems with that hardware and what, if any, solutions apply. e.g.:-
https://www.google.com/search?q=debian+Asus+Sabertooth+X79

(with portable devices there are a couple of sites I check for
build/install guides)


1. List requirements
2. List hardware that meets requirements
3. Check for Debian support/issues
4. Find best prices for chosen hardware
5. Purchase hardware
6. Plan build
7. Build
[8. Beer]

 
 Thanks,
 Jon
 
 


Kind regards


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New AlienFX Debian Package

[elbbit]

I recently adopted GNU programming concepts and decided to contribute to
the community.  I have completed my first GNU C++ program for which I
include the details.

I have developed a working CLI program which allows the user to change
the AlienFX light settings on Alienware hardware by accessing the
embedded 'lightchip' using an internal USB port.  I have built the code
with forward thinking in mind and will continue to develop a GUI program
which I expect will probably call the CLI program for the main function.

I have uploaded all the source code and packages to:
https://github.com/tibz/alienfx  (GPL2 license)
Shortcuts to the .deb packages:
i386 ... http://is.gd/Aj182N
amd64 .. http://is.gd/1NsXno

I have tested the Debian packages I have uploaded there for amd64 and
i386 on my own platforms (we have a pair of Alienware M11X R3 laptops
running testing branch) and now I am reaching out to other Alienware
owners who use Debian GNU/Linux for wider testing and to increase the
number of chipsets supported by the program (currently four types).

I do not claim all credit for this work; some of the primary code came
from an existing Java-based program available at:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/alienware/458528-alienfx-lite-linux-windows-alienfx-tool.html
However, finding the java program did not support our (newer) chipsets I
decided to modify the code to make it work, but it was buggy, and I
fixed a bug, then another, and then I started over with a whole new
project anyway.  Thanks go to progger.co.uk for the initial reverse
engineered code.  More thanks go to other snippets of C++ code I found
around the internet from a Winamp plugin, a kernel module and an MMORPG
SDK pack.  Further understanding came from decompiling the AlienFX SDK
libraries although no code was copied verbatim.

There is a complete manpage too and I would like any input from anyone
who can suggest improvement.

Lastly, I greatly appreciate your taking of time to read this.

best,
Tibz

-- 
elb...@gmail.com


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How about a new Lenny Debian Multimedia?

[Mark Neidorff]

Based on these assumptions:
1. I'm going to take a guess that the owner of Debian Multimedia is not 
interested in serving lenny files any more (this, of course, could be wrong).  
2. There is interest in being able to access the Lenny files that were stored 
at the DM site.

A proposal:
A group of interested Debian users who have web servers and some available 
bandwith to offer:

Divide the repository up among their servers with one server hosting the menu 
interface to the individual files.

That the individual server admins contact the managers of the packages that 
they host and request notificaiton of package updates from the package 
authors and keep their servers up to date.

This project should last for a year while Lenny is still supported.

Call for suggestions:
Before a call for volunteers goes out
Is there no need for this proposal?
Have I left something out of this proposal?
Is there something that I have wrong?
Is there something that you would like changed or done differently?

Please reply to this thread on the list.

thanks,

Mark


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Re: New to Debian (what I've done so far)

[ABSDoug]

Sorry... I messed up! I thought I had made a disk with the full install... I 
made another copy of the net install. I've got it working. Now for getting my 
wireless working. I'll start another thread.



  


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Re: New to Debian (what I've done so far)

[Chris Bannister]

On Mon, Jun 07, 2010 at 03:37:27PM -0700, ABSDoug wrote:
 I'm in Windows right now for my iPhone... SO slow, that last blank E-mail was 
 a Windows freeze issue. 

That message alone will get you quite a bit of help. :)_

-- 
Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet.
   -- Napoleon Bonaparte


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New to Debian (what I've done so far)

[ABSDoug]

1st, tried to do Installing Debian GNU/Linux via the 
Internet(debian-504-i386-netinst.iso) but could not connect to wireless. At 
the time I did not have physical access to the router, but that can be done now 
if necessary. 

2nd, tried the big DVD image (debian-504-i386-DVD-1.iso). Tried to run GUI, no 
go. Tried to install Gnome  got E: coundn't find package Gnome.
 
That's where I'm at so far. TIA. 






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Re: New to Debian (what I've done so far)

[Javier Barroso]

On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 12:13 AM, ABSDoug absd...@yahoo.com wrote:

 1st, tried to do Installing Debian GNU/Linux via the
 Internet(debian-504-i386-netinst.iso) but could not connect to wireless. At
 the time I did not have physical access to the router, but that can be done
 now if necessary.

 2nd, tried the big DVD image (debian-504-i386-DVD-1.iso). Tried to run GUI,
 no go. Tried to install Gnome  got E: coundn't find package Gnome.

 That's where I'm at so far. TIA.

See http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2010/06/msg00396.html and reply our
questions

From DVD you can install an desktop standard which include gnome

Regards,
PD: I'm CCing you, but if you are subscripted I shouldn't do it

Re: New to Debian (what I've done so far)

[Alexander Batischev]

Hi,

On Mon, Jun 07, 2010 at 03:13:11PM -0700, ABSDoug wrote:
 1st, tried to do Installing Debian GNU/Linux via the Internet
 (debian-504-i386-netinst.iso) but could not connect to wireless. At the time
 I did not have physical access to the router, but that can be done now if
 necessary. 
On which hardware do you try to install it? I don't know how to get wifi to
work on installation if it's not working out of box, so I'm simply curious.

 2nd, tried the big DVD image (debian-504-i386-DVD-1.iso).
Good idea, as far as you don't have Internet connection on installation time.

 Tried to run GUI, no go.
You mean graphic installer? If it doesn't work, try text mode - I assure you,
it isn't hard!

 Tried to install Gnome  got E: coundn't find package Gnome.
How did you try to install Gnome? Did you check Install Desktop Environment
in tasksel (this menu which appears on installation time)? Or did you installed
basic system (with no DE or WM, without xorg at all) and then try to run
aptitude install gnome? Please provide more information.

 That's where I'm at so far.
Btw, you don't need to start new thread each time you response. Keep whole
discussion in one thread, please - it's easier to follow (or not-follow)
and manage/search, then.

---
Regards,
Alexander Batischev


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Re: New to Debian (what I've done so far)

[ABSDoug]

--- On Mon, 6/7/10, Javier Barroso javibarr...@gmail.com wrote:


From: Javier Barroso javibarr...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: New to Debian (what I've done so far)
To: ABSDoug absd...@yahoo.com
Cc: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Date: Monday, June 7, 2010, 6:25 PM


On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 12:13 AM, ABSDoug absd...@yahoo.com wrote:


1st, tried to do Installing Debian GNU/Linux via the 
Internet(debian-504-i386-netinst.iso) but could not connect to wireless. At 
the time I did not have physical access to the router, but that can be done now 
if necessary.

2nd, tried the big DVD image (debian-504-i386-DVD-1.iso). Tried to run GUI, no 
go. Tried to install Gnome  got E: coundn't find package Gnome.
 
That's where I'm at so far. TIA. 

See http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2010/06/msg00396.html and reply our 
questions

From DVD you can install an desktop standard which include gnome

Regards,
PD: I'm CCing you, but if you are subscripted I shouldn't do it






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Re: New to Debian (what I've done so far)

[ABSDoug]

I'm in Windows right now for my iPhone... SO slow, that last blank E-mail was a 
Windows freeze issue. 

Javier, thanks for pointing me in the right direction!  yes I'm subscribed... 
don't know why I didn't get the orginal replys to my original post, but I am 
now.


--- On Mon, 6/7/10, Javier Barroso javibarr...@gmail.com wrote:

See http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2010/06/msg00396.html and reply our 
questions

From DVD you can install an desktop standard which include gnome

Regards,
PD: I'm CCing you, but if you are subscripted I shouldn't do it




  


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Re: New to Debian (what I've done so far)

[Mark]

On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 3:13 PM, ABSDoug absd...@yahoo.com wrote:

 1st, tried to do Installing Debian GNU/Linux via the
 Internet(debian-504-i386-netinst.iso) but could not connect to wireless. At
 the time I did not have physical access to the router, but that can be done
 now if necessary.

 2nd, tried the big DVD image (debian-504-i386-DVD-1.iso). Tried to run GUI,
 no go. Tried to install Gnome  got E: coundn't find package Gnome.

 That's where I'm at so far. TIA.


The dvd installer includes Gnome in the installation unless you tell it not
too, maybe your installation didn't work correctly?  Have you md5
checksummed your dvd download?

Mark

Re: New to Debian (what I've done so far)

[Alexander Batischev]

On Mon, Jun 07, 2010 at 03:37:27PM -0700, ABSDoug wrote:
 Javier, thanks for pointing me in the right direction!  yes I'm subscribed...
 don't know why I didn't get the orginal replys to my original post, but I am
 now.
Did you read manual I mentioned before?

Anyone can write to debian-user, but only subsribers can receive mails sent to
list by others. So when others replied to your post, subscribers received that
answers, but you didn't. Somebody CC'ed you (sent you a copy) when replying -
that way you get some responses. Now you're subscribed and get all the answers

You also will get all the mails sent to other threads in this list, too (I do
not know are you familiar enough with mailing lists to know that, so I think I
should mention it so you won't be confused when your mailbox be flooded by
dozens of mails per day).

If you didn't receive some replies, don't worry - there are online archive of
all the mails sent to list. You can find it here[1] - scoll down to Archives,
choose month and year and go reading!

Good luck with Debian!

1. http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/

---
Regards,
Alexander Batischev

 


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Fwd: Re: New to Debian (what I've done so far)

[Alexander Batischev]

- Forwarded message from ABSDoug absd...@yahoo.com -

Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 15:39:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: ABSDoug absd...@yahoo.com
To: Alexander Batischev eual...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: New to Debian (what I've done so far)

--- On Mon, 6/7/10, Alexander Batischev eual...@gmail.com wrote:

 How did you try to install Gnome? Did you check Install
 Desktop Environment
 in tasksel (this menu which appears on installation time)?
 Or did you installed
 basic system (with no DE or WM, without xorg at all) and
 then try to run
 aptitude install gnome? Please provide more information.
 
  That's where I'm at so far.
 Btw, you don't need to start new thread each time you
 response. Keep whole
 discussion in one thread, please - it's easier to follow
 (or not-follow)
 and manage/search, then.

I don't rememeber getting any options like we're talking about. Lemme try it 
aogain. I'll report back exactly what I did.


  

- End forwarded message -

P.S. ABSDoug, please check whom you respond to: it's not catastrophic if you
replied to me - I'll simply forward message to list - but it's considered as
bad taste.

---
Regards,
Alexander Batischev


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Re: New to Debian

[Alan Greenberger]

On 2009-12-03, deb...@toursbymexico.com deb...@toursbymexico.com wrote:

 2) How can I install KDE? Currently it is running with Gnome... I've just
 download all 5 DVDs plus the updates one... the gnome (un)install shows
 most KDE applications to install, but not the full window manager... and,
 once installed, is it safe to remove Gnome to free disk space? Just the
 window manager, not its libraries that should break some dependencies if
 deleted.

see http://pkg-kde.alioth.debian.org/kde3.html
The KDE CD for installing Lenny works well.  The page gives other
options.


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New to Debian

[debian]

Hello

I'm new to Debian, have used Slackware for years but latest release was a
mess so I decided to move to Debian and give it a try, however I have some
doubts and need to complete my configuration to keep working while
learning to use this new distro, so these are my current doubts:

1) How can I disable the graphical login and/or avoid X11 to start
automatically? I can't install the nVidia driver since it tells me to stop
X11 before. And, is it possible to leave it that way, just with the simple
text consoles, and start X11 manually when required?

2) How can I install KDE? Currently it is running with Gnome... I've just
download all 5 DVDs plus the updates one... the gnome (un)install shows
most KDE applications to install, but not the full window manager... and,
once installed, is it safe to remove Gnome to free disk space? Just the
window manager, not its libraries that should break some dependencies if
deleted.

3) There are some programs/drivers that independently of the distro, I
prefer to install them by hand from sources. Does it affect in some way if
I do this? The most common ones are kernel, MySQL, msn, irc, some
multimedia stuff, etc. but at least the kernel and MySQL that I don't like
to use packages for them...

4) Is it possible to install LILO instead of GRUB? I know it is better and
advanced, but I like LILO... would it be safe to install it without
breaking some kind of dependence?

Well, that's enough by now, today I need at least to setup the nVidia
driver and hopefully the latest kernel (no matter if it is GRUB by now)...

Thanks for your help,

Miguel


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Re: New to Debian

[Kumar Appaiah]

On Thu, Dec 03, 2009 at 09:29:57AM -0700, deb...@toursbymexico.com wrote:
 1) How can I disable the graphical login and/or avoid X11 to start
 automatically? I can't install the nVidia driver since it tells me to stop
 X11 before. And, is it possible to leave it that way, just with the simple
 text consoles, and start X11 manually when required?

Well, one way to do this would be to close the display manager you
use. For example, if gdm is what is running, I'd use /etc/init.d/gdm stop
Alternately, you can switch runlevels, but that isn't really
necessary, I think. See http://wiki.debian.org/RunLevel and
http://www.debian-administration.org/article/An_introduction_to_run-levels
for details.

 2) How can I install KDE? Currently it is running with Gnome... I've just
 download all 5 DVDs plus the updates one... the gnome (un)install shows
 most KDE applications to install, but not the full window manager... and,
 once installed, is it safe to remove Gnome to free disk space? Just the
 window manager, not its libraries that should break some dependencies if
 deleted.

Yes. It is free to remove the parts of Gnome which is not needed. To
get KDE, you can install one of the meta packages, such as kde-core
(in Lenny), or get all things KDE with the kde package.

 3) There are some programs/drivers that independently of the distro, I
 prefer to install them by hand from sources. Does it affect in some way if
 I do this? The most common ones are kernel, MySQL, msn, irc, some
 multimedia stuff, etc. but at least the kernel and MySQL that I don't like
 to use packages for them...

It shouldn't, but then, you might have problems getting other
dependencies working. The kernel shouldn't be bother, but MySQL is
more significant, since, if a package from Debian needs MySQL to run,
you'd have to explicitly specify that you have your own MySQL, since
it won't be able to find the Debian installed MySQL.

If package versions being old is your worry, you could consider
Backports, which offer you updated software for Stable Debian
releases: http://www.backports.org

 4) Is it possible to install LILO instead of GRUB? I know it is better and
 advanced, but I like LILO... would it be safe to install it without
 breaking some kind of dependence?

I believe so, but I don't know the methods/problems. Someone
else/Google should be able to help you with this.

 Well, that's enough by now, today I need at least to setup the nVidia
 driver and hopefully the latest kernel (no matter if it is GRUB by now)...
 
 Thanks for your help,

Have a great time with your Debian installation, and we'll do our best
to answer your queries here.

Kumar


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Re: New to Debian

[Kelly Clowers]

On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 08:29,  deb...@toursbymexico.com wrote:
 Hello

 I'm new to Debian, have used Slackware for years but latest release was a
 mess so I decided to move to Debian and give it a try, however I have some
 doubts and need to complete my configuration to keep working while
 learning to use this new distro, so these are my current doubts:

 1) How can I disable the graphical login and/or avoid X11 to start
 automatically? I can't install the nVidia driver since it tells me to stop
 X11 before. And, is it possible to leave it that way, just with the simple
 text consoles, and start X11 manually when required?

Just remove gdm/kdm/xdm, and use startx - that's what I do.

 2) How can I install KDE? Currently it is running with Gnome... I've just
 download all 5 DVDs plus the updates one... the gnome (un)install shows
 most KDE applications to install, but not the full window manager... and,
 once installed, is it safe to remove Gnome to free disk space? Just the
 window manager, not its libraries that should break some dependencies if
 deleted.


As Kumar said, kde-core and kde are KDE metapackages and will bring in
varying amounts of KDE.

Yon definitely remove all or part of Gnome. I have a fair amount of Gnome
and a small amount of KDE on my system, but not the metapackages
for either one.

Instead of the Gnome installer, you might try using Aptitude in interactive
(ncurses) mode. I find that is the best way to work with complex package
selection.

 3) There are some programs/drivers that independently of the distro, I
 prefer to install them by hand from sources. Does it affect in some way if
 I do this? The most common ones are kernel, MySQL, msn, irc, some
 multimedia stuff, etc. but at least the kernel and MySQL that I don't like
 to use packages for them...

You can do that, but if other packages needs MySQL, you either need
the equivs package to let the system know you have MySQL, or you
need to turn your compiled version into a .deb (shouldn't be too hard,
with debhelper).


 4) Is it possible to install LILO instead of GRUB? I know it is better and
 advanced, but I like LILO... would it be safe to install it without
 breaking some kind of dependence?

Should work, but I have never gone back to lilo before.

 Well, that's enough by now, today I need at least to setup the nVidia
 driver and hopefully the latest kernel (no matter if it is GRUB by now)...

Good luck!


Cheers,
Kelly Clowers


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Re: New to Debian

[Johannes Wiedersich]

Kumar Appaiah wrote:
 On Thu, Dec 03, 2009 at 09:29:57AM -0700, deb...@toursbymexico.com wrote:
 4) Is it possible to install LILO instead of GRUB? I know it is better and
 advanced, but I like LILO... would it be safe to install it without
 breaking some kind of dependence?
 
 I believe so, but I don't know the methods/problems. Someone
 else/Google should be able to help you with this.

IIRC, the installer for lenny has an option to install lilo instead of
grub (expert mode).

-- 
Johannes

Three nations have not officially adopted the International System
of Units as their primary or sole system of measurement: Burma,
Liberia, and the United States.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Si_units


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Re: New to Debian

[Wolodja Wentland]

On Thu, Dec 03, 2009 at 09:29 -0700, deb...@toursbymexico.com wrote:
 I'm new to Debian, have used Slackware for years but latest release was a
 mess so I decided to move to Debian and give it a try, 
Welcome!

 1) How can I disable the graphical login and/or avoid X11 to start
 automatically? I can't install the nVidia driver since it tells me to stop
 X11 before. And, is it possible to leave it that way, just with the simple
 text consoles, and start X11 manually when required?

You just need to disable whatever service starts xorg in the applicable
runlevels. You can do this easily with rcconf or sysv-rc-conf. the
service you are looking for is probably gdm, xdm or kdm.

 2) How can I install KDE? Currently it is running with Gnome... I've just
 download all 5 DVDs plus the updates one... the gnome (un)install shows

You usually don't need all 5 DVDs and from the rest of your mail I can
see that using them was definitely the wrong choice for you. I would
suggest to use the netinstall CD next time and just install the base
system. You can then download and install everything you want and built
exactly the system that you want/need without all the cruft that is
installed if you select one of the tasks.

I would also recommend using the 'expert' mode during installation as I
have the impression that you pretty much know what you want to install
and how to configure your system.

 most KDE applications to install, but not the full window manager... and,
 once installed, is it safe to remove Gnome to free disk space? Just the
 window manager, not its libraries that should break some dependencies if
 deleted.

You can safely remove all of GNOME if you don't need it. Some packages
might remain as dependencies of programs you installed though.

 3) There are some programs/drivers that independently of the distro, I
 prefer to install them by hand from sources. Does it affect in some way if
 I do this? The most common ones are kernel, MySQL, msn, irc, some
 multimedia stuff, etc. but at least the kernel and MySQL that I don't like
 to use packages for them...

I don't quite understand why you would want to do so, but it is
certainly possible. You might run into problems with other packages that
depend on these packages ... but that has already been mentioned.

Note that this will also deprive you from security updates by Debian and
that the packages shipped with Debian are specifically tailored towards
the Debian platform (and the ones you compile are not).

A better way might be to download the source package of a binary package
that is configured in a way you dislike, tailor it to your needs and
install your package.

I would really suggest that you try The Debian Way for some time and
learn about the advantages and (maybe) disadvantages ... This means that
you have to adapt your administration style a little - but it is always
fun to learn something new, or?

If you have further questions do not hesitate to write another mail or
join #debian at the freenode or oftc network.

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 : :'  :
 `. `'` 4096R/CAF14EFC 
   `-   081C B7CD FF04 2BA9 94EA  36B2 8B7F 7D30 CAF1 4EFC


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Re: New to Debian

[Rob Owens]

On Thu, Dec 03, 2009 at 09:29:57AM -0700, deb...@toursbymexico.com wrote:
 Hello
 
 I'm new to Debian, have used Slackware for years but latest release was a
 mess so I decided to move to Debian and give it a try, however I have some
 doubts and need to complete my configuration to keep working while
 learning to use this new distro, so these are my current doubts:
 
 1) How can I disable the graphical login and/or avoid X11 to start
 automatically? I can't install the nVidia driver since it tells me to stop
 X11 before. And, is it possible to leave it that way, just with the simple
 text consoles, and start X11 manually when required?
 
I'd use sysv-rc-conf to disable gdm in runlevel 2 (the default runlevel)

 2) How can I install KDE? Currently it is running with Gnome... I've just
 download all 5 DVDs plus the updates one... the gnome (un)install shows
 most KDE applications to install, but not the full window manager... and,
 once installed, is it safe to remove Gnome to free disk space? Just the
 window manager, not its libraries that should break some dependencies if
 deleted.
 
Try using the netinst CD.  By hitting one of the Function keys at boot
time, you can find out how to specify KDE as your GUI environment.
Gnome is the default (as you've discovered).

 3) There are some programs/drivers that independently of the distro, I
 prefer to install them by hand from sources. Does it affect in some way if
 I do this? The most common ones are kernel, MySQL, msn, irc, some
 multimedia stuff, etc. but at least the kernel and MySQL that I don't like
 to use packages for them...
 
You should look at backports.org and debian-multimedia.org

 4) Is it possible to install LILO instead of GRUB? I know it is better and
 advanced, but I like LILO... would it be safe to install it without
 breaking some kind of dependence?
 
When the installer asks if you want to install GRUB, I think you can say
no or cancel and you will get an option to install LILO.  If you
want to install LILO after your installation, you can do that too.  

-Rob


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Re: New to Debian

[debian]

Hi Rob

I did what you say but the installer does not give a LILO option, it only
warns that the system will not boot without GRUB and forced me to choose
YES... Am thinking on making a new installation to findout how to use the
expert mode, perhaps in such way I will be able to make a more detailed
installation that allows me to choose LILO too...

Thanks for your response.

Take care,
Miguel

 4) Is it possible to install LILO instead of GRUB? I know it is better
 and
 advanced, but I like LILO... would it be safe to install it without
 breaking some kind of dependence?

 When the installer asks if you want to install GRUB, I think you can say
 no or cancel and you will get an option to install LILO.  If you
 want to install LILO after your installation, you can do that too.

 -Rob


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Re: New to Debian

[John Hasler]

Miguel writes:
 Am thinking on making a new installation to findout how to use the
 expert mode, perhaps in such way I will be able to make a more
 detailed installation that allows me to choose LILO too...

You are overthinking this.  Just install the lilo package (apt-get
install lilo), read the docs, and follow instructions.  No need to
reinstall.
-- 
John Hasler


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Re: New list debian-user-dutch started

[Paul van der Vlis]

Paul Wise schreef:
 On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 9:30 PM, Paul van der Vlisp...@vandervlis.nl wrote:
 
 If you have an idea how to give this more publicity, I am interested to
 know how.
 
 Mention it on debian lists whenever a user uses Dutch on the wrong list.

I will do when I see it.

 Mention it on the Debian microblogging site: http://twitter.debian.net/

It's allready there.

 Mention it on http://news.debian.net/ (already here) or 
 http://times.debian.net/

I don't know how to get something on times.debian.net, other then
posting a mail in the publicity mailinglist. I've done that.

 Mention it in DeveloperNews (the wiki page).

I've done that.

 Mention it in DWN/DPN if someone decides to start that again.

I've done that.

Thanks for your help!

With regards,
Paul van der Vlis.




-- 
http://www.vandervlis.nl/


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Re: New list debian-user-dutch started

[Paul van der Vlis]

Hugo Vanwoerkom schreef:
 Paul van der Vlis wrote:
 Hello,

 There is a new mailinglist:  debian-user-dutch

 You can subscribe here:
 http://lists.debian.org/debian-user-dutch/

 If you have an idea how to give this more publicity, I am interested to
 know how.

 
 Does not appear yet as gmane.linux.debian.user.dutch

Done.

With regards,
Paul van der Vlis.




-- 
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New list debian-user-dutch started

[Paul van der Vlis]

Hello,

There is a new mailinglist:  debian-user-dutch

You can subscribe here:
http://lists.debian.org/debian-user-dutch/

If you have an idea how to give this more publicity, I am interested to
know how.

With regards,
Paul van der Vlis.




-- 
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Re: New list debian-user-dutch started

[Hugo Vanwoerkom]

Paul van der Vlis wrote:

Hello,

There is a new mailinglist:  debian-user-dutch

You can subscribe here:
http://lists.debian.org/debian-user-dutch/

If you have an idea how to give this more publicity, I am interested to
know how.



Does not appear yet as gmane.linux.debian.user.dutch

Hugo


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