Re: Convertir par CLI un JSON Web Token en fichier .pem
J'ai oublié de préciser que la cible est sous Bullseye (ie pas Bookworm). Le ven. 26 avr. 2024 à 16:05, Olivier a écrit : > > Hello, > > Quelle est la méthode recommandée pour convertir un JWT en fichier > .pem (analogue à ceux que l'on trouve dans le répertoire > /etc/ssj/certs) ? > > Pour donner le contexte, le JWT initial est obtenu par une commande du type > curl https://foo/bar -o monfichier.jwt > > Toute optimisation (fonctionnelle) enchaînant le télé-chargement du > JWT à la création du fichier est bienvenue tout comme un mécanisme > vérifiant l'intégrité etc du JWT d'origine. > > PS: J'ai trouvé sur le web des commandes utilisant jq mais pour un > besoin lié à la sécurité, je préférerai un binaire correctement > maintenu dans un paquet. > > Slts
Convertir par CLI un JSON Web Token en fichier .pem
Hello, Quelle est la méthode recommandée pour convertir un JWT en fichier .pem (analogue à ceux que l'on trouve dans le répertoire /etc/ssj/certs) ? Pour donner le contexte, le JWT initial est obtenu par une commande du type curl https://foo/bar -o monfichier.jwt Toute optimisation (fonctionnelle) enchaînant le télé-chargement du JWT à la création du fichier est bienvenue tout comme un mécanisme vérifiant l'intégrité etc du JWT d'origine. PS: J'ai trouvé sur le web des commandes utilisant jq mais pour un besoin lié à la sécurité, je préférerai un binaire correctement maintenu dans un paquet. Slts
Re: Bluetooth sound problems playing from a web browser
Thanks, I tried it but it turns out to be a wifi/usb problem I think. Jan Krapivin writes: > Have you tried a LIVE-version of another Linux distribution? It will > be interesting to compare. > > вс, 7 апр. 2024 г. в 22:30, Richmond : > > Richmond writes: > > > Richmond writes: > > > >> When playing videos in a web browser, and sending the sound to > a > >> bluetooth speaker (amazon echo) I get playback problems; > stuttering, > >> sound quality reduction to AM radio level or lower). These > things can > >> clear up after a minute or two, or be reduced. > >> > >> When playing from nvlc however I get no such problems. (I > haven't > >> tried vlc so I am not sure if it is just that it is a command > line). > >> > >> I have tried google-chrome and firefox-esr. > >> > >> Perhaps there is some other browser which will work? Maybe I > need to > >> isolate the process from the browser? I tried pop-out picture > on you > >> tube and it improved but there was still stuttering. > > > > I installed Falkon and Konqueror. I tried Falkon and it worked > fine, no > > sound problems. But then I tried Google-chrome again and that > was > > working fine too, and so was Firefox-esr. The problems have > gone away > > and even rebooting doesn't bring them back. Maybe one of those > browsers > > brought a better library with it. > > These problems have come back again. I have tried rebooting. I > tried > sending the same audio from an android phone and it works fine. > How do I > find out what the problems is? I cannot see errors in journalctl >
Re: Bluetooth sound problems playing from a web browser
Lee writes: > On Sun, Apr 7, 2024 at 3:30 PM Richmond wrote: >> >> Richmond writes: >> >> > Richmond writes: >> > >> >> When playing videos in a web browser, and sending the sound to a >> >> bluetooth speaker (amazon echo) I get playback problems; >> >> stuttering, sound quality reduction to AM radio level or >> >> lower). These things can clear up after a minute or two, or be >> >> reduced. >> >> >> >> When playing from nvlc however I get no such problems. (I haven't >> >> tried vlc so I am not sure if it is just that it is a command >> >> line). >> >> >> >> I have tried google-chrome and firefox-esr. >> >> >> >> Perhaps there is some other browser which will work? Maybe I need >> >> to isolate the process from the browser? I tried pop-out picture >> >> on you tube and it improved but there was still stuttering. >> > >> > I installed Falkon and Konqueror. I tried Falkon and it worked >> > fine, no sound problems. But then I tried Google-chrome again and >> > that was working fine too, and so was Firefox-esr. The problems >> > have gone away and even rebooting doesn't bring them back. Maybe >> > one of those browsers brought a better library with it. >> >> These problems have come back again. > > So unless you've updated or installed new hardware or software it's > probably not a firmware/software issue. > >> I have tried rebooting. I tried sending the same audio from an >> android phone and it works fine. How do I find out what the problems >> is? I cannot see errors in journalctl > > It's possible that wifi or usb 3.0 could be interfering with your > bluetooth speakers - eg > https://www.zdnet.com/article/usb-3-and-usb-c-devices-can-cause-problems-with-wi-fi-and-bluetooth-connections-but-theres-a-solution/ Thanks, I think this is the answer! I was having no problems today but noticed that the PC was connected to 5Ghz. Sometimes it connects at 2.4Ghz. When I disabled 5Ghz and forced the PC to use 2.4Ghz the problem came back. So now all I need to do is seperate those services and/or tie the PC to 5Ghz. The PC is a laptop but I never move it from the desktop. I am using a USB mouse and USB keyboard adapter to an old IBM keyboard. > https://sortatechy.com/spot-and-fix-bluetooth-interference-with-wifi/ > > If your PC is using wireless and can use a 5Ghz channel, try moving > your PC wireless to a 5Ghz channel first. If you PC only supports > 2.4Gh wireless you can install linssid > https://packages.debian.org/bookworm/linssid and pick a relatively > unused channel for your PC wireless. Or just try channels 1, 6 and 11 > and see if any of those makes a difference.. > > If you're using a USB 3.0 device on your PC try turning it off or > moving it to a USB 2.0 port and see if that fixes the bluetooth > interference. > > Regards, Lee
Re: Bluetooth sound problems playing from a web browser
On Sun, Apr 7, 2024 at 3:30 PM Richmond wrote: > > Richmond writes: > > > Richmond writes: > > > >> When playing videos in a web browser, and sending the sound to a > >> bluetooth speaker (amazon echo) I get playback problems; stuttering, > >> sound quality reduction to AM radio level or lower). These things can > >> clear up after a minute or two, or be reduced. > >> > >> When playing from nvlc however I get no such problems. (I haven't > >> tried vlc so I am not sure if it is just that it is a command line). > >> > >> I have tried google-chrome and firefox-esr. > >> > >> Perhaps there is some other browser which will work? Maybe I need to > >> isolate the process from the browser? I tried pop-out picture on you > >> tube and it improved but there was still stuttering. > > > > I installed Falkon and Konqueror. I tried Falkon and it worked fine, no > > sound problems. But then I tried Google-chrome again and that was > > working fine too, and so was Firefox-esr. The problems have gone away > > and even rebooting doesn't bring them back. Maybe one of those browsers > > brought a better library with it. > > These problems have come back again. So unless you've updated or installed new hardware or software it's probably not a firmware/software issue. > I have tried rebooting. I tried > sending the same audio from an android phone and it works fine. How do I > find out what the problems is? I cannot see errors in journalctl It's possible that wifi or usb 3.0 could be interfering with your bluetooth speakers - eg https://www.zdnet.com/article/usb-3-and-usb-c-devices-can-cause-problems-with-wi-fi-and-bluetooth-connections-but-theres-a-solution/ https://sortatechy.com/spot-and-fix-bluetooth-interference-with-wifi/ If your PC is using wireless and can use a 5Ghz channel, try moving your PC wireless to a 5Ghz channel first. If you PC only supports 2.4Gh wireless you can install linssid https://packages.debian.org/bookworm/linssid and pick a relatively unused channel for your PC wireless. Or just try channels 1, 6 and 11 and see if any of those makes a difference.. If you're using a USB 3.0 device on your PC try turning it off or moving it to a USB 2.0 port and see if that fixes the bluetooth interference. Regards, Lee
Re: Bluetooth sound problems playing from a web browser
Have you tried a LIVE-version of another Linux distribution? It will be interesting to compare. вс, 7 апр. 2024 г. в 22:30, Richmond : > Richmond writes: > > > Richmond writes: > > > >> When playing videos in a web browser, and sending the sound to a > >> bluetooth speaker (amazon echo) I get playback problems; stuttering, > >> sound quality reduction to AM radio level or lower). These things can > >> clear up after a minute or two, or be reduced. > >> > >> When playing from nvlc however I get no such problems. (I haven't > >> tried vlc so I am not sure if it is just that it is a command line). > >> > >> I have tried google-chrome and firefox-esr. > >> > >> Perhaps there is some other browser which will work? Maybe I need to > >> isolate the process from the browser? I tried pop-out picture on you > >> tube and it improved but there was still stuttering. > > > > I installed Falkon and Konqueror. I tried Falkon and it worked fine, no > > sound problems. But then I tried Google-chrome again and that was > > working fine too, and so was Firefox-esr. The problems have gone away > > and even rebooting doesn't bring them back. Maybe one of those browsers > > brought a better library with it. > > These problems have come back again. I have tried rebooting. I tried > sending the same audio from an android phone and it works fine. How do I > find out what the problems is? I cannot see errors in journalctl > >
Re: Bluetooth sound problems playing from a web browser
Richmond writes: > Richmond writes: > >> When playing videos in a web browser, and sending the sound to a >> bluetooth speaker (amazon echo) I get playback problems; stuttering, >> sound quality reduction to AM radio level or lower). These things can >> clear up after a minute or two, or be reduced. >> >> When playing from nvlc however I get no such problems. (I haven't >> tried vlc so I am not sure if it is just that it is a command line). >> >> I have tried google-chrome and firefox-esr. >> >> Perhaps there is some other browser which will work? Maybe I need to >> isolate the process from the browser? I tried pop-out picture on you >> tube and it improved but there was still stuttering. > > I installed Falkon and Konqueror. I tried Falkon and it worked fine, no > sound problems. But then I tried Google-chrome again and that was > working fine too, and so was Firefox-esr. The problems have gone away > and even rebooting doesn't bring them back. Maybe one of those browsers > brought a better library with it. These problems have come back again. I have tried rebooting. I tried sending the same audio from an android phone and it works fine. How do I find out what the problems is? I cannot see errors in journalctl
Re: Bluetooth sound problems playing from a web browser
Richmond writes: > When playing videos in a web browser, and sending the sound to a > bluetooth speaker (amazon echo) I get playback problems; stuttering, > sound quality reduction to AM radio level or lower). These things can > clear up after a minute or two, or be reduced. > > When playing from nvlc however I get no such problems. (I haven't > tried vlc so I am not sure if it is just that it is a command line). > > I have tried google-chrome and firefox-esr. > > Perhaps there is some other browser which will work? Maybe I need to > isolate the process from the browser? I tried pop-out picture on you > tube and it improved but there was still stuttering. I installed Falkon and Konqueror. I tried Falkon and it worked fine, no sound problems. But then I tried Google-chrome again and that was working fine too, and so was Firefox-esr. The problems have gone away and even rebooting doesn't bring them back. Maybe one of those browsers brought a better library with it.
Bluetooth sound problems playing from a web browser
When playing videos in a web browser, and sending the sound to a bluetooth speaker (amazon echo) I get playback problems; stuttering, sound quality reduction to AM radio level or lower). These things can clear up after a minute or two, or be reduced. When playing from nvlc however I get no such problems. (I haven't tried vlc so I am not sure if it is just that it is a command line). I have tried google-chrome and firefox-esr. Perhaps there is some other browser which will work? Maybe I need to isolate the process from the browser? I tried pop-out picture on you tube and it improved but there was still stuttering.
Re: Isolated Web Co Session crash Firefox-ESR
On Wed, Dec 06, 2023 at 09:27:06PM +0700, Max Nikulin wrote: > On 06/12/2023 12:04, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > > On Wed, Dec 06, 2023 at 02:42:32AM +0800, jeremy ardley wrote: > > > > > > sudo sync; sudo sh -c 'echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches' > > > > > > Sadly it looks like I'll need to do this daily, > > > > See /etc/sysctl.conf and /etc/sysctl.conf.d if you want to make such things > > persistent. > > This particular one can not be made persistent. Writing to this file causes > kernel action. D'oh, thanks. Sorry for the confusion. Cheers -- t signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Isolated Web Co Session crash Firefox-ESR
On 06/12/2023 01:42, jeremy ardley wrote: I have discovered a magic bullet for solving running out of memory sudo sync; sudo sh -c 'echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches' Sadly it looks like I'll need to do this daily, simply for using Debian Bookworm with a variety of web browsers Magic does not work. From my point of view, the scope of such command is benchmarking of cold start in some applications. It ensures that all files are read from disk, not taken from RAM caches. The command certainly may change numbers presented by free(1) or top(1). Actually if it can increase amount of free memory then applications should not starve from insufficient RAM. Kernel should drop some caches in response to memory allocation request. Probable negative consequence is that some files will be read again. You mentioned that you have no swap on this machine (I remember, actually swap exists). Does it mean that you followed some guide trying to optimize system performance e.g. to minimize SSD wearing? I suspect that changing some kernel tunables may degrade cache performance. I would try to start from clean state. Unfortunately my experience with such optimizing is negligible.
Re: Isolated Web Co Session crash Firefox-ESR
On 06/12/2023 12:04, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: On Wed, Dec 06, 2023 at 02:42:32AM +0800, jeremy ardley wrote: sudo sync; sudo sh -c 'echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches' Sadly it looks like I'll need to do this daily, See /etc/sysctl.conf and /etc/sysctl.conf.d if you want to make such things persistent. This particular one can not be made persistent. Writing to this file causes kernel action. https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/admin-guide/sysctl/vm.html#drop-caches However I am in doubt if it may be useful for the issue with browsers.
Re: Isolated Web Co Session crash Firefox-ESR
Karl Vogel wrote: > On Wed, Dec 06, 2023 at 06:04:36AM +0100, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > > On Wed, Dec 06, 2023 at 02:42:32AM +0800, jeremy ardley wrote: > > > > > I have discovered a magic bullet for solving running out of memory > > > sudo sync; sudo sh -c 'echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches' > > > Sadly it looks like I'll need to do this daily, > > > > It's the browsers eating your memory. That's what they do. > > I've had problems with Firefox eating my swap on both Linux and > FreeBSD. My fix has been to run the swap2ram script below hourly. TBF FF has stopped eating memory & swap since it updated to 115.5.0 ESR
Re: Isolated Web Co Session crash Firefox-ESR
On Wed, Dec 06, 2023 at 06:04:36AM +0100, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 06, 2023 at 02:42:32AM +0800, jeremy ardley wrote:
>
> > I have discovered a magic bullet for solving running out of memory
> > sudo sync; sudo sh -c 'echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches'
> > Sadly it looks like I'll need to do this daily,
>
> It's the browsers eating your memory. That's what they do.
I've had problems with Firefox eating my swap on both Linux and FreeBSD.
My fix has been to run the swap2ram script below hourly.
--
Karl Vogel I don't speak for anyone but myself
Constipational carry.
--NY Post 28 Nov "Suspect found hiding handgun in his rectum" comment #4
# --
#!/bin/ksh
# /dev/null
case "$?" in
0) ;;
*) die "You must be root to $action this." ;;
esac
}
# Make sure we have permission and a safe tempfile.
needroot
systype=$(uname -s | tr A-Z a-z)
tmp=$(mktemp -q "/tmp/$tag.XX")
case "$?" in
0) test -f "$tmp" || die "$tmp: tempfile not created" ;;
*) die "$tmp: mktemp failed" ;;
esac
# Real work starts here. Check for OS-specific instructions.
case "$systype" in
freebsd)
( swapoff -a && swapon -a ) >> $tmp 2>&1
;;
linux)
mem=$(free | awk '/Mem:/ {print $4}')
swap=$(free | awk '/Swap:/ {print $3}')
if test "$mem" -lt "$swap"; then
logmsg "not enough RAM to recover swap, nothing done"
else
( swapoff -a && swapon -a ) >> $tmp 2>&1
fi
;;
esac
# Cleanup.
test -s "$tmp" && logfile $tmp
rm $tmp
exit 0
Re: Isolated Web Co Session crash Firefox-ESR
On Wed, Dec 06, 2023 at 02:42:32AM +0800, jeremy ardley wrote: [...] > I have discovered a magic bullet for solving running out of memory > > sudo sync; sudo sh -c 'echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches' > > Sadly it looks like I'll need to do this daily, See /etc/sysctl.conf and /etc/sysctl.conf.d if you want to make such things persistent. > simply for using Debian Bookworm with a variety of web browsers You got that order of things backwards. It's the browsers eating your memory. That's what they do. Ad industry always comes up with ways to use up your resources. Cheers -- t signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Isolated Web Co Session crash Firefox-ESR
On 4/12/23 10:26, Max Nikulin wrote:
On 03/12/2023 13:33, jeremy ardley wrote:
On 3/12/23 13:59, Phil Wyett wrote:
What type of content is generally being viewed/used in firefox?
A lot of video and otherwise news and search and GPT4
---
I am curious if this creature may provide a summary on user-space OOM
killers. I have never tried them, but I expect that they may be more
intelligent than the kernel-space one. I have seen mentions of the
following ones: earlyoom, nohang, oomd.
Do you have AI browser extensions that may load huge models in respect
to memory footprint?
When the system starts to become sluggish, have you looked at the
firefox 'Task Manager' under tools to see if anything stands out?
Previously I have seen the Isolated Web Co processes maxing CPU and
the CPU fans starting to roar. Nothing unusual in content at the time
and if I kill all ESR related processes it quiets down and I can
resume the closed windows and tabs at much reduced CPU
It is just a process that is responsible for some web pages.
JavaScript loaded for particular sites may leak. Videos may consume
RAM as well. I would not rely too much on ability of an application to
recover after killing of its specific processes. From my point of view
it is better to restart Firefox in such cases.
Perhaps it is possible to find a particular site that causes issues,
but you need to inspect system namely when it is becoming sluggish.
Firefox has the about:processes and about:performance tools. They may
be accessed from the about:about list.
Try to sort top(1) output by memory ("M" key), try df(1) to check
tmpfs usage for the case that enough temporary video files are stored
there.
I believed that 32G of RAM is still above that "average" users have,
so it should be enough. Other suggestions surprised me that 0.5G of
swap may significantly change anything since it is less than 2% of RAM.
I have discovered a magic bullet for solving running out of memory
sudo sync; sudo sh -c 'echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches'
Sadly it looks like I'll need to do this daily, simply for using Debian
Bookworm with a variety of web browsers
Re: Isolated Web Co Session crash Firefox-ESR
On 4/12/23 10:49, Max Nikulin wrote: On 04/12/2023 09:39, jeremy ardley wrote: I think I've found a potential culprit using about:processes https://openai.com 110% CPU I would try it in chromium. Some sites relies on optimizations implemented in its JavaScript engine. My observation is that Firefox may be CPU hungry due to "loading" animations (CSS and others). Curiously it may happen namely when JS is disabled since otherwise animated placeholders are replaced by dynamically loaded content that is still. I have also been monitoring global memory use. The last entry below is after I closed the openai tab I have not used atop, but a colleague recommended it. This tool may write logs. I installed atop and moved the openai page to Google Chrome. Free memory reported by atop hovers around 10G and doesn't seem to vary much over the past day. I put a query into gpt4 Can Chrony serve as LAN's master? Chrome CPU varied between 35% and 65% for the duration of the query of about 15 to 20 seconds. This is surprising as I thought openai GPT was implemented as an API call with minimal browser involvement.
Re: Isolated Web Co Session crash Firefox-ESR
On 04/12/2023 09:39, jeremy ardley wrote: I think I've found a potential culprit using about:processes https://openai.com 110% CPU I would try it in chromium. Some sites relies on optimizations implemented in its JavaScript engine. My observation is that Firefox may be CPU hungry due to "loading" animations (CSS and others). Curiously it may happen namely when JS is disabled since otherwise animated placeholders are replaced by dynamically loaded content that is still. I have also been monitoring global memory use. The last entry below is after I closed the openai tab I have not used atop, but a colleague recommended it. This tool may write logs.
Re: Isolated Web Co Session crash Firefox-ESR
On 4/12/23 10:26, Max Nikulin wrote: > I am curious if this creature may provide a summary on user-space OOM > killers. I have never tried them, but I expect that they may be more > intelligent than the kernel-space one. I have seen mentions of the > following ones: earlyoom, nohang, oomd. I think I've found a potential culprit using about:processes https://openai.com 110% CPU (That's GPT4) Firefox at this time is running around 1GB memory The super high CPU for openai is certainly a whole bunch of javascript. I closed that tab and the CPU load dropped to normal. Reloading the openai website and CPU oscillated between 1% and 20% till it settled around 1% I have also been monitoring global memory use. The last entry below is after I closed the openai tab root@client:~# date; free -m Mon 04 Dec 2023 09:14:29 AWST total used free shared buff/cache available Mem: 32023 12400 10521 426 10136 19622 Swap: 976 8 968 root@client:~# date; free -m Mon 04 Dec 2023 10:04:56 AWST total used free shared buff/cache available Mem: 32023 12913 9959 437 10197 19110 Swap: 976 8 968 root@client:~# date; free -m Mon 04 Dec 2023 10:28:19 AWST total used free shared buff/cache available Mem: 32023 13113 9732 419 10206 18910 Swap: 976 8 968 root@client:~# date; free -m Mon 04 Dec 2023 10:32:58 AWST total used free shared buff/cache available Mem: 32023 12545 10297 428 10217 19478 Swap: 976 8 968 This does not explain the OOM problem, but it seems memory is slowly being consumed at a rate where in 24 hours I'll start seeing problems again.
Re: Isolated Web Co Session crash Firefox-ESR
On 03/12/2023 13:33, jeremy ardley wrote:
On 3/12/23 13:59, Phil Wyett wrote:
What type of content is generally being viewed/used in firefox?
A lot of video and otherwise news and search and GPT4
---
I am curious if this creature may provide a summary on user-space OOM
killers. I have never tried them, but I expect that they may be more
intelligent than the kernel-space one. I have seen mentions of the
following ones: earlyoom, nohang, oomd.
Do you have AI browser extensions that may load huge models in respect
to memory footprint?
When the system starts to become sluggish, have you looked at the
firefox 'Task Manager' under tools to see if anything stands out?
Previously I have seen the Isolated Web Co processes maxing CPU and the
CPU fans starting to roar. Nothing unusual in content at the time and if
I kill all ESR related processes it quiets down and I can resume the
closed windows and tabs at much reduced CPU
It is just a process that is responsible for some web pages. JavaScript
loaded for particular sites may leak. Videos may consume RAM as well. I
would not rely too much on ability of an application to recover after
killing of its specific processes. From my point of view it is better to
restart Firefox in such cases.
Perhaps it is possible to find a particular site that causes issues, but
you need to inspect system namely when it is becoming sluggish.
Firefox has the about:processes and about:performance tools. They may be
accessed from the about:about list.
Try to sort top(1) output by memory ("M" key), try df(1) to check tmpfs
usage for the case that enough temporary video files are stored there.
I believed that 32G of RAM is still above that "average" users have, so
it should be enough. Other suggestions surprised me that 0.5G of swap
may significantly change anything since it is less than 2% of RAM.
Re: Isolated Web Co Session crash Firefox-ESR
On 12/3/23 01:00, jeremy ardley wrote: On 3/12/23 15:37, Phil Wyett wrote: Not to regurgitating info here, I will add a link below that will instruct how to adjust or disable oom-killer in a sensible manner if you wish to experiment (your choice and being cautious :-)) if it is in fact the oom-killer algorithm that is the main cause of your issue. The top output provided earlier seems to show nearly a gigabyte of swap, a tiny part of it used. You are right, though, that adding swap will not improve matters for long. A small amount of swap probably is a good idea to take care of occasional memory overcommitment. But on an interactive system, swap thrashing that may happen with a (or several) greedy enough processes will kill performance for everything that matters, and if one or more of them is leaking memory, adding swap (or even more memory) will only delay the collapse. As a reference point Isolated Web Co is an occasional annoyance here on machines with well over 64G memory. I kill it without mercy when it appears to be causing swap. Regards, Tom Dial The issue is not so much Isolated Web Co being terminated, but my entire Mate session being terminated. I wouldn't have too much problem if OOM-killer hit Firefox. I have done it myself when things got slow. However, I can't see any valid reason for the Mate session to be assassinated? Or at least be inevitable collateral damage.
Re: Isolated Web Co Session crash Firefox-ESR
On 4/12/23 06:08, Michael Kjörling wrote: The reason for the system slowing down seems to me to likely be that once the system comes under memory pressure (quite possibly due to an increase in anonymous pages), it must evict something, and only non-anonymous (that is, backed) pages can be evicted safely. So most likely the allocator starts evicting program code, because that can be read back from storage later, or other forms of cache, in order to keep room for the anonymous pages which it cannot evict. The next time that code is needed, it must go all the way to the (horribly slow by comparison) storage, instead of originally just writing out to swap some anonymous pages which haven't been used in comparatively forever, like a tmpfs that someone mentioned, or data for inactive web browser tabs or documents you aren't doing anything active with. It turns out I actually do have a modest swap though I don't recall enabling it. It doesn't seem to be used anway. Given that, the system after 24 hours of typical use is nowhere near using up most of the memory. I expect that the web browsers keep an eye on available memory and do most of their memory management/caching in a 'fixed' allocation as well as the memory marked buff/cache Here is the status just now root@client:~# free -m totalusedfree shared buff/cache available Mem: 320239654 14053 3369261 22369 Swap:976 8 968
Re: Isolated Web Co Session crash Firefox-ESR
On 3 Dec 2023 14:33 +0800, from jeremy.ard...@gmail.com (jeremy ardley): >> You have swap and it is enabled? > > No Swap. I prefer not on SSD Why not? You are definitely putting the VM allocator in a much more difficult spot than necessary by not providing any swap space. If I read what you provided in a different message in this thread correctly, over half of your RAM at that particular time was being used for anonymous pages; that is, data which has no backing on other storage, and therefore cannot be evicted from virtual memory. Combine this with the fact that you have no swap, and all that data _must_ be kept in RAM because that's all there is. Combine _that_ with running several rather memory-hungry processes (several web browsers plus LibreOffice) _and_ the Linux default of allowing memory overcommitting, and I'm not all that surprised that you're apparently hitting the OOM killer from time to time. The reason for the system slowing down seems to me to likely be that once the system comes under memory pressure (quite possibly due to an increase in anonymous pages), it must evict something, and only non-anonymous (that is, backed) pages can be evicted safely. So most likely the allocator starts evicting program code, because that can be read back from storage later, or other forms of cache, in order to keep room for the anonymous pages which it cannot evict. The next time that code is needed, it must go all the way to the (horribly slow by comparison) storage, instead of originally just writing out to swap some anonymous pages which haven't been used in comparatively forever, like a tmpfs that someone mentioned, or data for inactive web browser tabs or documents you aren't doing anything active with. -- Michael Kjörling https://michael.kjorling.se “Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”
Re: Isolated Web Co Session crash Firefox-ESR
Hi. On Sun, Dec 03, 2023 at 12:58:47PM +0800, jeremy ardley wrote: > I noticed my Firefox -esr browser becoming progressively more sluggish. Then > suddenly I was back to the system login screen > > This is not the first time this has happened although previously when it > started getting sluggish I killed all Firefox related process > > System logs show the start of the event. > > 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335043+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257070] Isolated Web > Co invoked oom-killer: > gfp_mask=0x140dca(GFP_HIGHUSER_MOVABLE|__GFP_COMP|__GFP_ZERO), order=0, > oom_score_adj=100 Tail of that particular trace always shows top memory consumers at the very moment oom-killer was invoked. Skipping that information can and will lead to guessing. And in this particular case: > inactive_anon:29781756kB > anon_thp: 17088512kB Do you have any relatively large filesystem, such as /tmp, mounted as tmpfs? Any tmpfs contents are not accounted by free(1) or top(1), but using large tmpfs with small swap can lead to funny results to say the least. Reco
Re: Isolated Web Co Session crash Firefox-ESR
On Sun, Dec 3, 2023 at 6:21 AM jeremy ardley wrote: > > On 3/12/23 13:59, Phil Wyett wrote: > > Your system RAM total is? > > 32G You might also want to try compressed memory, like zram. > > You have swap and it is enabled? > > No Swap. I prefer not on SSD In this configuration, you may want to set `vm.overcommit_memory = 2` since there is no page file. I don't think it will make the OOM go away, but it will set a policy more in line with what you are doing. (It may move the OOM from some random program to the browser, since the browser is grabbing large amounts of memory). But I would use a swap file, and set `vm.swappiness = 1`. That tells the OS to do just about everything except use the swap file. I use this for all my dev boards with SDcards. The swap file is needed because the dev boards often lack resources, like having 512 MB of RAM. (In my case, I need to run a C++ compiler, so I have to have a swap file or accept the Denial of Service and not get my work done). Jeff
Re: Isolated Web Co Session crash Firefox-ESR
On Sun, 2023-12-03 at 16:00 +0800, jeremy ardley wrote: > > On 3/12/23 15:37, Phil Wyett wrote: > > Not to regurgitating info here, I will add a link below that will > > instruct how to adjust or disable oom-killer in a sensible manner if > > you wish to experiment (your choice and being cautious :-)) if it is > > in fact the oom-killer algorithm that is the main cause of your issue. > > > The issue is not so much Isolated Web Co being terminated, but my entire > Mate session being terminated. > > I wouldn't have too much problem if OOM-killer hit Firefox. I have done > it myself when things got slow. > > However, I can't see any valid reason for the Mate session to be > assassinated? Or at least be inevitable collateral damage. > Hi, Not being deeply familiar with the oom-killer heuristics, I could not offer reasoning why 'mate' is killed. These heuristics by default kill the most memory hogging processes in theory and the consequences of this on other processes I cannot comment on. There is one setting you may wish look at and consider. Reading: https://docs.kernel.org/admin-guide/sysctl/vm.html I see the following: https://docs.kernel.org/admin-guide/sysctl/vm.html?highlight=laptop#oom-kill-allocating-task Setting this to '1' may trigger a strategy that does not put 'mate' in the firing line as it changes the target for killing to the process call that triggers the out of memory condition. I am sure if my reading of this setting is wrong, someone will correct. This would be done of course at your own risk after doing the research yourself. Regards Phil -- Playing the game for the games sake. Web: * Debian Wiki: https://wiki.debian.org/PhilWyett * Website: https://kathenas.org signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Isolated Web Co Session crash Firefox-ESR
On Sun, 2023-12-03 at 14:59 +0800, jeremy ardley wrote: > > On 3/12/23 14:46, Phil Wyett wrote: > > The first thing I would do before any other is to enable swap and see > > what benefits that brings. I have no production laptop or desktop > > (laptop with 32G being daily driver with NVME (root) and an SSD (home) > > drive inside) that does not have swap. I have 8G of swap on my laptop > > and it does get used by the system, but only in low amounts. Others > > may have other strategies here, but this is where I would start. > > > I don't think it is actually a lack of memory. What I do see is all the > web browsers are up there on CPU along with nvidia-modeset. > > Putting in swap may delay the time things start going awry but the cause > won't be lack of memory > > top CPU > > top - 14:55:15 up 44 days, 41 min, 1 user, load average: 0.19, 0.19, 0.19 > Tasks: 386 total, 1 running, 385 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie > %Cpu(s): 0.6 us, 0.2 sy, 0.0 ni, 99.1 id, 0.1 wa, 0.0 hi, 0.0 si, > 0.0 st > MiB Mem : 32023.4 total, 19201.2 free, 7118.7 used, 6564.6 buff/cache > MiB Swap: 977.0 total, 968.1 free, 8.9 used. 24904.6 avail Mem > > PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND > 3433245 jeremy 20 0 2584752 210788 100352 S 4.3 0.6 0:25.77 > Isolated Web Co > 3423627 jeremy 20 0 1140.1g 326428 130228 S 2.6 1.0 6:12.36 chrome > 3423253 jeremy 20 0 32.9g 387804 299712 S 1.0 1.2 2:25.86 chrome > 723 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.7 0.0 269:07.26 > nvidia-modeset/kthread_q > 3432484 jeremy 20 0 3689468 688004 243920 S 0.7 2.1 1:01.72 > firefox-esr > 3433214 root 20 0 11880 5348 3196 R 0.7 0.0 0:03.16 top > 3422887 jeremy 20 0 697716 55924 40800 S 0.3 0.2 0:07.98 > mate-terminal > 3423206 jeremy 20 0 32.8g 434756 252740 S 0.3 1.3 1:32.29 chrome > 3423254 jeremy 20 0 32.4g 129252 101388 S 0.3 0.4 0:28.83 chrome > 3428534 jeremy 20 0 32.6g 480104 145044 S 0.3 1.5 2:43.60 > chromium > 3428658 jeremy 20 0 1134.0g 212384 117084 S 0.3 0.6 7:09.41 > chromium > 1 root 20 0 168800 10412 6324 S 0.0 0.0 0:45.56 > systemd > 2 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:01.82 > kthreadd > 3 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 > rcu_gp > 4 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 > rcu_par_gp > 5 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 > slub_flushwq > 6 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 netns > 8 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 > kworker/0:0H-events_highpri > > > top memory > > top - 14:58:34 up 44 days, 45 min, 1 user, load average: 0.27, 0.23, 0.20 > Tasks: 384 total, 3 running, 381 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie > %Cpu(s): 0.8 us, 0.4 sy, 0.0 ni, 98.7 id, 0.1 wa, 0.0 hi, 0.1 si, > 0.0 st > MiB Mem : 32023.4 total, 19055.2 free, 7260.6 used, 6570.2 buff/cache > MiB Swap: 977.0 total, 968.1 free, 8.9 used. 24762.8 avail Mem > > PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND > 3422963 jeremy 20 0 4032104 979264 208004 S 0.0 3.0 5:20.33 > thunderbird > 3432484 jeremy 20 0 3679780 711916 250108 S 1.3 2.2 1:13.98 > firefox-esr > 3428534 jeremy 20 0 32.6g 480364 144980 R 1.7 1.5 2:46.34 > chromium > 3423206 jeremy 20 0 32.8g 434600 252740 S 0.0 1.3 1:32.66 chrome > 3422183 root 20 0 25.0g 419692 139016 S 0.3 1.3 0:47.61 Xorg > 3423253 jeremy 20 0 32.9g 387540 299712 S 1.3 1.2 2:28.33 chrome > 1750 jeremy 20 0 1163816 380224 9776 S 0.0 1.2 3:53.92 > goa-daemon > 3423627 jeremy 20 0 1140.1g 326700 130228 S 3.6 1.0 6:19.81 chrome > 3422581 jeremy 20 0 7293420 311912 78012 S 0.3 1.0 0:40.50 > dropbox > 3423600 jeremy 20 0 1134.1g 294804 128548 S 0.0 0.9 0:46.53 chrome > 3428484 jeremy 20 0 32.7g 266044 192084 S 0.3 0.8 0:38.63 > chromium > 2320 jeremy 20 0 1752388 244220 12876 S 0.0 0.7 7:20.61 > evolution-calen > 3433245 jeremy 20 0 2584752 212408 100480 S 0.0 0.6 0:32.45 > Isolated Web Co > 1664 jeremy 9 -11 240828 203652 5716 S 0.0 0.6 7,25 > pipewire-pulse > 3433581 jeremy 20 0 296 201664 98504 S 0.7 0.6 0:03.09 > Isolated Web Co > 3428658 jeremy 20 0 1134.0g 200140 117084 R 4.3 0.6 7:18.18 > chromium > 3432583 jeremy 20 0 18.7g 191500 108380 S 0.3 0.6 0:10.79 &
Re: Isolated Web Co Session crash Firefox-ESR
On 3/12/23 15:37, Phil Wyett wrote: Not to regurgitating info here, I will add a link below that will instruct how to adjust or disable oom-killer in a sensible manner if you wish to experiment (your choice and being cautious :-)) if it is in fact the oom-killer algorithm that is the main cause of your issue. The issue is not so much Isolated Web Co being terminated, but my entire Mate session being terminated. I wouldn't have too much problem if OOM-killer hit Firefox. I have done it myself when things got slow. However, I can't see any valid reason for the Mate session to be assassinated? Or at least be inevitable collateral damage.
Re: Isolated Web Co Session crash Firefox-ESR
On 12/2/23 20:58, jeremy ardley wrote: I noticed my Firefox -esr browser becoming progressively more sluggish. Then suddenly I was back to the system login screen This is not the first time this has happened although previously when it started getting sluggish I killed all Firefox related process System logs show the start of the event. 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335043+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257070] Isolated Web Co invoked oom-killer: gfp_mask=0x140dca(GFP_HIGHUSER_MOVABLE|__GFP_COMP|__GFP_ZERO), order=0, oom_score_adj=100 On 12/2/23 22:33, jeremy ardley wrote: On 3/12/23 13:59, Phil Wyett wrote: Your system RAM total is? 32G You have swap and it is enabled? No Swap. I prefer not on SSD What Desktop Environment (DE) are you using - GNOME, KDE etc.? Mate with multiple panels. How many apps would you normally be running on the system at once? 3 x web browsers Firefox - multiple windows, Chrome one window, Chromium one window Intermittently mate terminals and LibreOffice applications How many extensions have you installed/running in firefox? Several. All the usual blockers plus bypass paywalls clean and Multi Account Containers How many tabs would you normally have open? In firefox, perhaps 20 over two windows What type of content is generally being viewed/used in firefox? A lot of video and otherwise news and search and GPT4 When the system starts to become sluggish, have you looked at the firefox 'Task Manager' under tools to see if anything stands out? Previously I have seen the Isolated Web Co processes maxing CPU and the CPU fans starting to roar. Nothing unusual in content at the time and if I kill all ESR related processes it quiets down and I can resume the closed windows and tabs at much reduced CPU It's obvious the main culprit is Firefox-ESR and the Isolated Web Co processes. What triggers it other than elapsed time I have no idea On 12/2/23 22:59, jeremy ardley wrote: I don't think it is actually a lack of memory. What I do see is all the web browsers are up there on CPU along with nvidia-modeset. Putting in swap may delay the time things start going awry but the cause won't be lack of memory I tried running a Debian desktop without swap and encountered the same symptom -- crashed desktop and return to login screen. The solution was two-fold: 1. Provision 1 GB of swap. 2. Add Xfce panel widgets so that I can see what is going on. Between the two, I usually have enough time to kill problem apps before a crash. And, more memory would not hurt. David
Re: Isolated Web Co Session crash Firefox-ESR
On Sun, 2023-12-03 at 14:59 +0800, jeremy ardley wrote: > > On 3/12/23 14:46, Phil Wyett wrote: > > The first thing I would do before any other is to enable swap and see > > what benefits that brings. I have no production laptop or desktop > > (laptop with 32G being daily driver with NVME (root) and an SSD (home) > > drive inside) that does not have swap. I have 8G of swap on my laptop > > and it does get used by the system, but only in low amounts. Others > > may have other strategies here, but this is where I would start. > > > I don't think it is actually a lack of memory. What I do see is all the > web browsers are up there on CPU along with nvidia-modeset. > > Putting in swap may delay the time things start going awry but the cause > won't be lack of memory > > top CPU > > top - 14:55:15 up 44 days, 41 min, 1 user, load average: 0.19, 0.19, 0.19 > Tasks: 386 total, 1 running, 385 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie > %Cpu(s): 0.6 us, 0.2 sy, 0.0 ni, 99.1 id, 0.1 wa, 0.0 hi, 0.0 si, > 0.0 st > MiB Mem : 32023.4 total, 19201.2 free, 7118.7 used, 6564.6 buff/cache > MiB Swap: 977.0 total, 968.1 free, 8.9 used. 24904.6 avail Mem > > PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND > 3433245 jeremy 20 0 2584752 210788 100352 S 4.3 0.6 0:25.77 > Isolated Web Co > 3423627 jeremy 20 0 1140.1g 326428 130228 S 2.6 1.0 6:12.36 chrome > 3423253 jeremy 20 0 32.9g 387804 299712 S 1.0 1.2 2:25.86 chrome > 723 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.7 0.0 269:07.26 > nvidia-modeset/kthread_q > 3432484 jeremy 20 0 3689468 688004 243920 S 0.7 2.1 1:01.72 > firefox-esr > 3433214 root 20 0 11880 5348 3196 R 0.7 0.0 0:03.16 top > 3422887 jeremy 20 0 697716 55924 40800 S 0.3 0.2 0:07.98 > mate-terminal > 3423206 jeremy 20 0 32.8g 434756 252740 S 0.3 1.3 1:32.29 chrome > 3423254 jeremy 20 0 32.4g 129252 101388 S 0.3 0.4 0:28.83 chrome > 3428534 jeremy 20 0 32.6g 480104 145044 S 0.3 1.5 2:43.60 > chromium > 3428658 jeremy 20 0 1134.0g 212384 117084 S 0.3 0.6 7:09.41 > chromium > 1 root 20 0 168800 10412 6324 S 0.0 0.0 0:45.56 > systemd > 2 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:01.82 > kthreadd > 3 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 > rcu_gp > 4 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 > rcu_par_gp > 5 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 > slub_flushwq > 6 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 netns > 8 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 > kworker/0:0H-events_highpri > > > top memory > > top - 14:58:34 up 44 days, 45 min, 1 user, load average: 0.27, 0.23, 0.20 > Tasks: 384 total, 3 running, 381 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie > %Cpu(s): 0.8 us, 0.4 sy, 0.0 ni, 98.7 id, 0.1 wa, 0.0 hi, 0.1 si, > 0.0 st > MiB Mem : 32023.4 total, 19055.2 free, 7260.6 used, 6570.2 buff/cache > MiB Swap: 977.0 total, 968.1 free, 8.9 used. 24762.8 avail Mem > > PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND > 3422963 jeremy 20 0 4032104 979264 208004 S 0.0 3.0 5:20.33 > thunderbird > 3432484 jeremy 20 0 3679780 711916 250108 S 1.3 2.2 1:13.98 > firefox-esr > 3428534 jeremy 20 0 32.6g 480364 144980 R 1.7 1.5 2:46.34 > chromium > 3423206 jeremy 20 0 32.8g 434600 252740 S 0.0 1.3 1:32.66 chrome > 3422183 root 20 0 25.0g 419692 139016 S 0.3 1.3 0:47.61 Xorg > 3423253 jeremy 20 0 32.9g 387540 299712 S 1.3 1.2 2:28.33 chrome > 1750 jeremy 20 0 1163816 380224 9776 S 0.0 1.2 3:53.92 > goa-daemon > 3423627 jeremy 20 0 1140.1g 326700 130228 S 3.6 1.0 6:19.81 chrome > 3422581 jeremy 20 0 7293420 311912 78012 S 0.3 1.0 0:40.50 > dropbox > 3423600 jeremy 20 0 1134.1g 294804 128548 S 0.0 0.9 0:46.53 chrome > 3428484 jeremy 20 0 32.7g 266044 192084 S 0.3 0.8 0:38.63 > chromium > 2320 jeremy 20 0 1752388 244220 12876 S 0.0 0.7 7:20.61 > evolution-calen > 3433245 jeremy 20 0 2584752 212408 100480 S 0.0 0.6 0:32.45 > Isolated Web Co > 1664 jeremy 9 -11 240828 203652 5716 S 0.0 0.6 7,25 > pipewire-pulse > 3433581 jeremy 20 0 296 201664 98504 S 0.7 0.6 0:03.09 > Isolated Web Co > 3428658 jeremy 20 0 1134.0g 200140 117084 R 4.3 0.6 7:18.18 > chromium > 3432583 jeremy 20 0 18.7g 191500 108380 S 0.3 0.6 0:10.79 &
Re: Isolated Web Co Session crash Firefox-ESR
jeremy ardley writes: > I don't think it is actually a lack of memory. What I do see is all > the web browsers are up there on CPU along with nvidia-modeset. What do you consider to be "up there"? 4.3% (your highest CPU usage in this output) hardly seems to qualify as something to be concerned about. nvidia-modeset is consuming a whopping 0.7% CPU. I assume these numbers are while the system is operating normally and not when it starts to struggle. Why do you think heavy CPU load would cause the OOM killer to activate? Some precesses just don't appreciate having no swap available.
Re: Isolated Web Co Session crash Firefox-ESR
On 3/12/23 14:46, Phil Wyett wrote: The first thing I would do before any other is to enable swap and see what benefits that brings. I have no production laptop or desktop (laptop with 32G being daily driver with NVME (root) and an SSD (home) drive inside) that does not have swap. I have 8G of swap on my laptop and it does get used by the system, but only in low amounts. Others may have other strategies here, but this is where I would start. I don't think it is actually a lack of memory. What I do see is all the web browsers are up there on CPU along with nvidia-modeset. Putting in swap may delay the time things start going awry but the cause won't be lack of memory top CPU top - 14:55:15 up 44 days, 41 min, 1 user, load average: 0.19, 0.19, 0.19 Tasks: 386 total, 1 running, 385 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie %Cpu(s): 0.6 us, 0.2 sy, 0.0 ni, 99.1 id, 0.1 wa, 0.0 hi, 0.0 si, 0.0 st MiB Mem : 32023.4 total, 19201.2 free, 7118.7 used, 6564.6 buff/cache MiB Swap: 977.0 total, 968.1 free, 8.9 used. 24904.6 avail Mem PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND 3433245 jeremy 20 0 2584752 210788 100352 S 4.3 0.6 0:25.77 Isolated Web Co 3423627 jeremy 20 0 1140.1g 326428 130228 S 2.6 1.0 6:12.36 chrome 3423253 jeremy 20 0 32.9g 387804 299712 S 1.0 1.2 2:25.86 chrome 723 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.7 0.0 269:07.26 nvidia-modeset/kthread_q 3432484 jeremy 20 0 3689468 688004 243920 S 0.7 2.1 1:01.72 firefox-esr 3433214 root 20 0 11880 5348 3196 R 0.7 0.0 0:03.16 top 3422887 jeremy 20 0 697716 55924 40800 S 0.3 0.2 0:07.98 mate-terminal 3423206 jeremy 20 0 32.8g 434756 252740 S 0.3 1.3 1:32.29 chrome 3423254 jeremy 20 0 32.4g 129252 101388 S 0.3 0.4 0:28.83 chrome 3428534 jeremy 20 0 32.6g 480104 145044 S 0.3 1.5 2:43.60 chromium 3428658 jeremy 20 0 1134.0g 212384 117084 S 0.3 0.6 7:09.41 chromium 1 root 20 0 168800 10412 6324 S 0.0 0.0 0:45.56 systemd 2 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:01.82 kthreadd 3 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 rcu_gp 4 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 rcu_par_gp 5 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 slub_flushwq 6 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 netns 8 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 kworker/0:0H-events_highpri top memory top - 14:58:34 up 44 days, 45 min, 1 user, load average: 0.27, 0.23, 0.20 Tasks: 384 total, 3 running, 381 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie %Cpu(s): 0.8 us, 0.4 sy, 0.0 ni, 98.7 id, 0.1 wa, 0.0 hi, 0.1 si, 0.0 st MiB Mem : 32023.4 total, 19055.2 free, 7260.6 used, 6570.2 buff/cache MiB Swap: 977.0 total, 968.1 free, 8.9 used. 24762.8 avail Mem PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND 3422963 jeremy 20 0 4032104 979264 208004 S 0.0 3.0 5:20.33 thunderbird 3432484 jeremy 20 0 3679780 711916 250108 S 1.3 2.2 1:13.98 firefox-esr 3428534 jeremy 20 0 32.6g 480364 144980 R 1.7 1.5 2:46.34 chromium 3423206 jeremy 20 0 32.8g 434600 252740 S 0.0 1.3 1:32.66 chrome 3422183 root 20 0 25.0g 419692 139016 S 0.3 1.3 0:47.61 Xorg 3423253 jeremy 20 0 32.9g 387540 299712 S 1.3 1.2 2:28.33 chrome 1750 jeremy 20 0 1163816 380224 9776 S 0.0 1.2 3:53.92 goa-daemon 3423627 jeremy 20 0 1140.1g 326700 130228 S 3.6 1.0 6:19.81 chrome 3422581 jeremy 20 0 7293420 311912 78012 S 0.3 1.0 0:40.50 dropbox 3423600 jeremy 20 0 1134.1g 294804 128548 S 0.0 0.9 0:46.53 chrome 3428484 jeremy 20 0 32.7g 266044 192084 S 0.3 0.8 0:38.63 chromium 2320 jeremy 20 0 1752388 244220 12876 S 0.0 0.7 7:20.61 evolution-calen 3433245 jeremy 20 0 2584752 212408 100480 S 0.0 0.6 0:32.45 Isolated Web Co 1664 jeremy 9 -11 240828 203652 5716 S 0.0 0.6 7,25 pipewire-pulse 3433581 jeremy 20 0 296 201664 98504 S 0.7 0.6 0:03.09 Isolated Web Co 3428658 jeremy 20 0 1134.0g 200140 117084 R 4.3 0.6 7:18.18 chromium 3432583 jeremy 20 0 18.7g 191500 108380 S 0.3 0.6 0:10.79 WebExtensions 3433289 jeremy 20 0 2549968 181504 97876 S 0.0 0.6 0:03.47 Isolated Web Co 3422461 jeremy 20 0 1385296 158252 94932 S 0.0 0.5 0:20.50 nextcloud 3428536 jeremy 20 0 32.4g 152468 132780 S 0.3 0.5 0:19.69 chromium 3432350 jeremy 20 0 1134.0g 143620 103132 S 0.0 0.4 0:01.76 chrome 3423380 jeremy 20 0 1132.0g 141860 100880 S 0.0 0.4 0:03.64 chrome 3423715 jeremy 20 0 1132.0g 137276 102264 S 0.0 0.4 0:02.83 chrome 3432598 jeremy 20 0 2477752 135292 98484 S 0.0 0.4 0:02.16
Re: Isolated Web Co Session crash Firefox-ESR
On Sun, 2023-12-03 at 14:33 +0800, jeremy ardley wrote: > > On 3/12/23 13:59, Phil Wyett wrote: > > Your system RAM total is? > > 32G > > > > You have swap and it is enabled? > > No Swap. I prefer not on SSD > > > Hi, The first thing I would do before any other is to enable swap and see what benefits that brings. I have no production laptop or desktop (laptop with 32G being daily driver with NVME (root) and an SSD (home) drive inside) that does not have swap. I have 8G of swap on my laptop and it does get used by the system, but only in low amounts. Others may have other strategies here, but this is where I would start. Regards Phil -- Playing the game for the games sake. Web: * Debian Wiki: https://wiki.debian.org/PhilWyett * Website: https://kathenas.org signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Isolated Web Co Session crash Firefox-ESR
On 3/12/23 13:59, Phil Wyett wrote: Your system RAM total is? 32G You have swap and it is enabled? No Swap. I prefer not on SSD What Desktop Environment (DE) are you using - GNOME, KDE etc.? Mate with multiple panels. How many apps would you normally be running on the system at once? 3 x web browsers Firefox - multiple windows, Chrome one window, Chromium one window Intermittently mate terminals and LibreOffice applications How many extensions have you installed/running in firefox? Several. All the usual blockers plus bypass paywalls clean and Multi Account Containers How many tabs would you normally have open? In firefox, perhaps 20 over two windows What type of content is generally being viewed/used in firefox? A lot of video and otherwise news and search and GPT4 When the system starts to become sluggish, have you looked at the firefox 'Task Manager' under tools to see if anything stands out? Previously I have seen the Isolated Web Co processes maxing CPU and the CPU fans starting to roar. Nothing unusual in content at the time and if I kill all ESR related processes it quiets down and I can resume the closed windows and tabs at much reduced CPU It's obvious the main culprit is Firefox-ESR and the Isolated Web Co processes. What triggers it other than elapsed time I have no idea
Re: Isolated Web Co Session crash Firefox-ESR
On Sun, 2023-12-03 at 12:58 +0800, jeremy ardley wrote: > I noticed my Firefox -esr browser becoming progressively more sluggish. > Then suddenly I was back to the system login screen > > This is not the first time this has happened although previously when it > started getting sluggish I killed all Firefox related process > > System logs show the start of the event. > > 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335043+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257070] > Isolated Web Co invoked oom-killer: > gfp_mask=0x140dca(GFP_HIGHUSER_MOVABLE|__GFP_COMP|__GFP_ZERO), order=0, > oom_score_adj=100 > 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335962+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257078] CPU: 8 > PID: 3410924 Comm: Isolated Web Co Tainted: P OE 6.1.0-13-amd64 #1 > Debian 6.1.55-1 > 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335964+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257081] > Hardware name: System manufacturer System Product Name/PRIME B450M-A, > BIOS 0219 06/08/2018 > 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335965+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257082] Call Trace: > 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335966+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257085] > 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335967+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257088] > dump_stack_lvl+0x44/0x5c > 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335968+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257094] > dump_header+0x4a/0x211 > 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335978+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257097] > oom_kill_process.cold+0xb/0x10 > 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335979+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257100] > out_of_memory+0x1fd/0x4c0 > 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335980+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257104] > __alloc_pages_slowpath.constprop.0+0xc73/0xdc0 > 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335981+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257108] > __alloc_pages+0x305/0x330 > 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335982+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257111] > __folio_alloc+0x17/0x50 > 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335983+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257113] ? > policy_node+0x51/0x70 > 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335984+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257116] > vma_alloc_folio+0x9c/0x370 > 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335984+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257119] > __handle_mm_fault+0x92f/0xfa0 > 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335985+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257123] > handle_mm_fault+0xdb/0x2d0 > 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335986+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257126] > do_user_addr_fault+0x19c/0x570 > 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335986+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257129] > exc_page_fault+0x70/0x170 > 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335987+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257132] > asm_exc_page_fault+0x22/0x30 > 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335987+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257136] RIP: > 0033:0x7fcb86b0dd3a > 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335988+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257139] Code: > 48 89 fb 48 83 ec 18 e8 b4 de ff ff 48 85 c0 74 42 48 89 c5 48 8b 43 48 > 48 3b 43 50 0f 84 5e 01 00 00 48 8d 50 08 48 89 53 48 <48> 89 28 4c 8b > bb 88 00 00 00 4d 85 ff 74 16 41 80 7f 19 00 4d 8b > 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335989+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257140] RSP: > 002b:7ffc85877cd0 EFLAGS: 00010283 > 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335990+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257142] RAX: > 7fcb0a3b7000 RBX: 7fcb45f33000 RCX: 05937a1b > 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335990+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257144] RDX: > 7fcb0a3b7008 RSI: 7fcb85941410 RDI: > 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335991+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257145] RBP: > 7fcb3ebaea08 R08: 7fcb3ebaea08 R09: 008fc63b > 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335992+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257146] R10: > R11: 0008 R12: 0558afa25450 > 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335993+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257147] R13: > 7ffc85877d20 R14: R15: 148e1958de08 > 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335993+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257150] > 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335994+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257151] Mem-Info: > 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335994+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257152] > active_anon:202973 inactive_anon:7445439 isolated_anon:0 > 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335998+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257152] > active_file:816 inactive_file:3360 isolated_file:0 > 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335999+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257152] > unevictable:2092 dirty:0 writeback:0 > 2023-12-03T11:35:03.336000+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257152] > slab_reclaimable:180435 slab_unreclaimable:80961 > 2023-12-03T11:35:03.336001+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257152] > mapped:215565 shmem:310212 pagetables:40361 > 2023-12-03T11:35:03.336001+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257152] > sec_pagetables:0 bounce:0 > 2023-12-03T11:35:03.336002+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257152] > kernel_misc_reclaimable:0 > 2023-12-03T11:35:03.336004+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257152] > free:81539 free_pcp:87 free_cma:0 > 2023-12-03T11:35:03.336004+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257156] Node 0 > active_anon:811892kB i
Re: Isolated Web Co Session crash Firefox-ESR
jeremy ardley writes: > I noticed my Firefox -esr browser becoming progressively more > sluggish. Then suddenly I was back to the system login screen > > This is not the first time this has happened although previously when > it started getting sluggish I killed all Firefox related process > > System logs show the start of the event. > > 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335043+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257070] > Isolated Web Co invoked oom-killer: ^^ You're out of memory, the system started killing processes to keep itself alive. It tends not be particularly "smart" about what to kill.
Isolated Web Co Session crash Firefox-ESR
I noticed my Firefox -esr browser becoming progressively more sluggish. Then suddenly I was back to the system login screen This is not the first time this has happened although previously when it started getting sluggish I killed all Firefox related process System logs show the start of the event. 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335043+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257070] Isolated Web Co invoked oom-killer: gfp_mask=0x140dca(GFP_HIGHUSER_MOVABLE|__GFP_COMP|__GFP_ZERO), order=0, oom_score_adj=100 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335962+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257078] CPU: 8 PID: 3410924 Comm: Isolated Web Co Tainted: P OE 6.1.0-13-amd64 #1 Debian 6.1.55-1 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335964+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257081] Hardware name: System manufacturer System Product Name/PRIME B450M-A, BIOS 0219 06/08/2018 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335965+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257082] Call Trace: 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335966+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257085] 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335967+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257088] dump_stack_lvl+0x44/0x5c 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335968+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257094] dump_header+0x4a/0x211 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335978+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257097] oom_kill_process.cold+0xb/0x10 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335979+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257100] out_of_memory+0x1fd/0x4c0 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335980+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257104] __alloc_pages_slowpath.constprop.0+0xc73/0xdc0 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335981+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257108] __alloc_pages+0x305/0x330 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335982+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257111] __folio_alloc+0x17/0x50 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335983+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257113] ? policy_node+0x51/0x70 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335984+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257116] vma_alloc_folio+0x9c/0x370 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335984+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257119] __handle_mm_fault+0x92f/0xfa0 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335985+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257123] handle_mm_fault+0xdb/0x2d0 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335986+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257126] do_user_addr_fault+0x19c/0x570 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335986+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257129] exc_page_fault+0x70/0x170 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335987+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257132] asm_exc_page_fault+0x22/0x30 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335987+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257136] RIP: 0033:0x7fcb86b0dd3a 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335988+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257139] Code: 48 89 fb 48 83 ec 18 e8 b4 de ff ff 48 85 c0 74 42 48 89 c5 48 8b 43 48 48 3b 43 50 0f 84 5e 01 00 00 48 8d 50 08 48 89 53 48 <48> 89 28 4c 8b bb 88 00 00 00 4d 85 ff 74 16 41 80 7f 19 00 4d 8b 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335989+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257140] RSP: 002b:7ffc85877cd0 EFLAGS: 00010283 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335990+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257142] RAX: 7fcb0a3b7000 RBX: 7fcb45f33000 RCX: 05937a1b 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335990+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257144] RDX: 7fcb0a3b7008 RSI: 7fcb85941410 RDI: 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335991+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257145] RBP: 7fcb3ebaea08 R08: 7fcb3ebaea08 R09: 008fc63b 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335992+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257146] R10: R11: 0008 R12: 0558afa25450 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335993+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257147] R13: 7ffc85877d20 R14: R15: 148e1958de08 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335993+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257150] 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335994+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257151] Mem-Info: 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335994+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257152] active_anon:202973 inactive_anon:7445439 isolated_anon:0 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335998+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257152] active_file:816 inactive_file:3360 isolated_file:0 2023-12-03T11:35:03.335999+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257152] unevictable:2092 dirty:0 writeback:0 2023-12-03T11:35:03.336000+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257152] slab_reclaimable:180435 slab_unreclaimable:80961 2023-12-03T11:35:03.336001+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257152] mapped:215565 shmem:310212 pagetables:40361 2023-12-03T11:35:03.336001+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257152] sec_pagetables:0 bounce:0 2023-12-03T11:35:03.336002+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257152] kernel_misc_reclaimable:0 2023-12-03T11:35:03.336004+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257152] free:81539 free_pcp:87 free_cma:0 2023-12-03T11:35:03.336004+08:00 client kernel: [3792101.257156] Node 0 active_anon:811892kB inactive_anon:29781756kB active_file:3264kB inactive_file:13440kB unevictable:8368kB isolated(anon):0kB isolated(file):0kB mapped:862260kB dirty:0kB writeback:0kB shmem:1240848kB shmem_thp: 0kB shmem_pmdmapped: 0kB anon_thp: 17088512kB writeback_tmp:0kB kernel_stack:39
Re: Web functionality;
On Fri, Oct 06, 2023 at 01:27:14PM -0700, pe...@easthope.ca wrote: > From: > Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2023 17:39:20 +0100 > > I do disagree with much of what the Mozilla foundation does, and at > > the end, they see the world through ad-industry coloured goggles, but > > they are the last credible ditch we have. > > Considering how minimal Dillo is, it has worthwhile capability. I > wonder why addition of JavaScript isn't mentioned. I don't mean > compete with Firefox. Just display fewer blank windows and allow some > commonly occuring gizmos to work. Heh. I used Dillo long,long time ago. That time whence this whining of some Web pages comes from (some still have it!): "You don't have Javascript? Oh, you poor sod! Here, we explain to you how to switch it on. That's how nice we are!" > > You thought the situation with Microsoft and computing in the 1980s > > and 1990s was grotesque? It's much, much worse these days. The > > difference is that the monopoly watchdogs are fast asleep at the > > wheel these days. > > For sure ... > > ... but even dinosaurs weren't invincible. That's my hope, yes. A faint one. > In many areas, Europe is more progressive than N. Am. Any encouraging > developments there? Yes, there's GDPR, which went in the right direction. The giants of surveillance capitalism are making a mock of it, because they are massively better at that game. And, to be fair. the book on that was written by a person in the US: Shoshana Zuboff: "The Age of Surveillance Capitalism". I'm buying a second copy because I gave away my first one. Cheers -- t signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Web functionality;
From: Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2023 17:39:20 +0100 > I do disagree with much of what the Mozilla foundation does, and at > the end, they see the world through ad-industry coloured goggles, but > they are the last credible ditch we have. Considering how minimal Dillo is, it has worthwhile capability. I wonder why addition of JavaScript isn't mentioned. I don't mean compete with Firefox. Just display fewer blank windows and allow some commonly occuring gizmos to work. > You thought the situation with Microsoft and computing in the 1980s > and 1990s was grotesque? It's much, much worse these days. The > difference is that the monopoly watchdogs are fast asleep at the > wheel these days. For sure ... ... but even dinosaurs weren't invincible. In many areas, Europe is more progressive than N. Am. Any encouraging developments there? Thx, ... P. - VoIP: +1 604 670 0140 work: https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/User:PeterEasthope
Re: 127.0.1.1 line, was Re: chrome web browser worthless
On 8/4/23 19:26, David Wright wrote: On Thu 03 Aug 2023 at 15:56:07 (-0700), David Christensen wrote: On 8/2/23 19:05, Greg Wooledge wrote: On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 07:01:22PM -0700, David Christensen wrote: Interesting. Is there a Debian specification that explains the 127.0.1.1 entry? https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch05.en.html#_the_hostname_resolution I'm sure there are others, but this was the first one I found. Thank you. If you want more detail on motives, then perhaps start reading at: https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2013/07/msg00809.html Thank you for the link. David
Re: 127.0.1.1 line, was Re: chrome web browser worthless
On Thu 03 Aug 2023 at 15:56:07 (-0700), David Christensen wrote: > On 8/2/23 19:05, Greg Wooledge wrote: > > On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 07:01:22PM -0700, David Christensen wrote: > > > Interesting. Is there a Debian specification that explains the 127.0.1.1 > > > entry? > > > > https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch05.en.html#_the_hostname_resolution > > > > I'm sure there are others, but this was the first one I found. > > Thank you. If you want more detail on motives, then perhaps start reading at: https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2013/07/msg00809.html Cheers, David.
Re: 127.0.1.1 line, was Re: chrome web browser worthless
On 8/2/23 19:05, Greg Wooledge wrote: On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 07:01:22PM -0700, David Christensen wrote: Interesting. Is there a Debian specification that explains the 127.0.1.1 entry? https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch05.en.html#_the_hostname_resolution I'm sure there are others, but this was the first one I found. Thank you. David
Re: chrome web browser worthless
On Wed 02 Aug 2023 at 14:48:30 (-0400), gene heskett wrote: > On 8/2/23 13:21, Greg Wooledge wrote: > > On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 01:07:13PM -0400, gene heskett wrote: > > > On 8/2/23 07:14, Greg Wooledge wrote: > > > > On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 08:43:32AM +0100, Darac Marjal wrote: > > > > > * "localhost:80" - This is ambiguous > > > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > It would be nice if we had an exact recipe for how to reproduce the > > > > problem. Failing that, it'll be up to Gene to debug the situation on > > > > his end. I'm still leaning toward an edited /etc/hosts file. > > > > > > > > > > At this point Greg, I'll plead guilty to a hand edited /etc/hosts file. > > > So here it is, tell me whats wrong: > > > > > > gene@bpi52:~$ cat /etc/hosts > > > 127.0.0.1 localhost > > > > > > There is more of course but the rest of it is private local network > > > (192.168.xxx.yyy) addresses of no concern here. > > > > Well, that looks reasonable. You're missing the IPv6 entry, but that > > probably doesn't matter. So, assuming there are no other occurrences > > of the word "localhost", whatever is causing the problem probably > > lies elsewhere. > > > > Did you attempt any other diagnostics? Typing the full URL including > > the http:// part, or launching Chrome with a new profile? Are you able > > to reproduce the problem consistently, and if so, how? What are the > > exact symptoms you see? > > > > Another thing to try, which I forgot to mention last time, would be using > > the IP address directly: http://127.0.0.1/ That bypasses any hostname > > lookup issues that may exist. It's pretty unlikely that a web service > > running on localhost would care whether you addressed it by name or by IP > > address (virtual hosts on loopback are not commonplace AFAIK). > > > Its idle atm, so I'll give that a shot, brb. A click on the empty > address line gets me a menu from google. this pops up with the first > character typed, but if I continue with //127.0.0.1:80, I see a ; > replacing the : and the 80 disappears but it does work, and I am > looking at the klipper web page, used to run the printer. And > everything seems to work. That doesn't look like hijacking to me, but just the normal practice of turning the port number into the appropriate protocol and sticking it on the front of the address. (As already mentioned, some browsers might hide the protocol, rather like Windows does with filename extensions.) Cheers, David.
Re: chrome web browser worthless
On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 08:05:11PM -0400, gene heskett wrote: [...] > show mea link to the doc that explains that please > Cheers, Gene Heskett. There's not "the doc", but many of them. For starters, rfc5735 [1] tells us that the whole subnet 127.0.0.0/8 is available for loopback purposes (I've used it to test web servers locally, picking one address and giving them a suitable name in /etc/hosts) The 127.0.1.1 seems to be a Debianism explained here [2]. It seems that some (ahem) software (Typical GNOME) wants to know "no, what's my "real" IP address) and fails if there ain't one, so this seems to have been done to pacify those. Bad software, bad. And now go fire your search engine ;-) Cheers [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5735#section-4 [2] https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch05.en.html#_the_hostname_resolution -- t signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: 127.0.1.1 line, was Re: chrome web browser worthless
On Thu 03 Aug 2023 at 07:48:54 (+0800), jeremy ardley wrote:
> On 3/8/23 07:34, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > > On Wed 02 Aug 2023 at 16:00:24 (-0400), gene heskett wrote:
> > > > On 8/2/23 15:15, Brian wrote:
> > > > > Where is the line with 127.0.1.1? Debian always provides that.
> > > > >
> > > > True, but I've never seen a description of what that does or what its
> > > > for.
> > https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch05.en.html#_the_hostname_resolution
> >
> As an aside, I checked my current debian 12 bookworm installation and
> found in /etc/nsswitch.conf this line
>
> hosts: files mdns4_minimal [NOTFOUND=return] dns myhostname
> mymachines
>
> when I do man nsswitch.conf there is no reference to mdns4_minimal
>
> I see from searching that mdns4_minimal is referenced reasonably often
> over the past few years but I can't find it defined.
>
> The question arises why it's not defined in man nsswitch.conf?
I suspect it's because man nsswitch.conf documents the (closed) set
of databases, whereas the various services are documented inside the
library packages that implement them, like libnss-mdns. In this case,
the files to read are /usr/share/doc/libnss-mdns/README.{Debian,md.gz}.
Cheers,
David.
Re: 127.0.1.1 line, was Re: chrome web browser worthless
On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 07:01:22PM -0700, David Christensen wrote: > Interesting. Is there a Debian specification that explains the 127.0.1.1 > entry? https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch05.en.html#_the_hostname_resolution I'm sure there are others, but this was the first one I found.
Re: 127.0.1.1 line, was Re: chrome web browser worthless
On 8/2/23 16:34, Greg Wooledge wrote: On Wed 02 Aug 2023 at 16:00:24 (-0400), gene heskett wrote: On 8/2/23 15:15, Brian wrote: Where is the line with 127.0.1.1? Debian always provides that. True, but I've never seen a description of what that does or what its for. https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch05.en.html#_the_hostname_resolution One click away from the first result of my first Google search on the topic. Not hard to find at all. When you see something that you don't understand and your first reaction is "let's remove that!" it's no wonder you have so many problems. Thank you -- that answers my question: https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch05.en.html#_the_hostname_resolution The IP address 127.0.1.1 in the second line of this example may not be found on some other Unix-like systems. The Debian Installer creates this entry for a system without a permanent IP address as a workaround for some software (e.g., GNOME) as documented in the bug #719621. David
Re: 127.0.1.1 line, was Re: chrome web browser worthless
On 8/2/23 16:26, David Wright wrote: On Wed 02 Aug 2023 at 16:00:24 (-0400), gene heskett wrote: On 8/2/23 15:15, Brian wrote: On Wed 02 Aug 2023 at 14:52:26 -0400, gene heskett wrote: On 8/2/23 14:26, Brian wrote: No - that isn't the way it works. Give what is asked for, not a censored version that suits you. ok, same cat in full: gene@bpi52:~$ cat /etc/hosts 127.0.0.1 localhost 192.168.71.1router.coyote.den router 192.168.71.3coyote.coyote.den coyote 192.168.71.4sixty40.coyote.den sixty40 192.168.71.7vna.coyote.den vna 192.168.71.8rock64v2.coyote.den rock64v2 192.168.71.9bpi51.coyote.denbpi51 192.168.71.10 go704.coyote.dengo704 192.168.71.11 bpi53.coyote.denbpi53 192.168.71.12 bpi54.coyote.denbpi54 192.168.71.13 rpi4.coyote.den rpi4 192.168.71.21 scanner.coyte.den scanner 192.168.71.22 rock64.coyote.den rock64 192.168.71.23 bpi52.coyote.denbpi52 192.168.71.25 tlm.coyote.den tlm 192.168.71.50 dddprint.coyote.dn dddprint 31.184.194.81 Sci-Hub.se Where is the line with 127.0.1.1? Debian always provides that. True, but I've never seen a description of what that does or what its for. Interesting. Is there a Debian specification that explains the 127.0.1.1 entry? So I've removed it from every machine here because its out of scope for 127.0.0.1. Gene -- by "it", do you mean the 127.0.1.1 entries? I'm not sure what you mean by scope. 127.0.0.0 is /8 isn't it? That is my understanding, and what Wikipedia says: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserved_IP_addresses says: 127.0.0.0/8 127.0.0.0–127.255.255.255 16777216 Host Used for loopback addresses to the local host.[1] So, both 127.0.0.1 and 127.0.1.1 are in the IPv4 special use address block 127.0.0.0/8. David
Re: chrome web browser worthless
On 8/2/23 17:02, Brian wrote: On Wed 02 Aug 2023 at 16:00:24 -0400, gene heskett wrote: On 8/2/23 15:15, Brian wrote: On Wed 02 Aug 2023 at 14:52:26 -0400, gene heskett wrote: On 8/2/23 14:26, Brian wrote: No - that isn't the way it works. Give what is asked for, not a censored version that suits you. ok, same cat in full: gene@bpi52:~$ cat /etc/hosts 127.0.0.1 localhost 192.168.71.1router.coyote.den router 192.168.71.3coyote.coyote.den coyote 192.168.71.4sixty40.coyote.den sixty40 192.168.71.7vna.coyote.den vna 192.168.71.8rock64v2.coyote.den rock64v2 192.168.71.9bpi51.coyote.denbpi51 192.168.71.10 go704.coyote.dengo704 192.168.71.11 bpi53.coyote.denbpi53 192.168.71.12 bpi54.coyote.denbpi54 192.168.71.13 rpi4.coyote.den rpi4 192.168.71.21 scanner.coyte.den scanner 192.168.71.22 rock64.coyote.den rock64 192.168.71.23 bpi52.coyote.denbpi52 192.168.71.25 tlm.coyote.den tlm 192.168.71.50 dddprint.coyote.dn dddprint 31.184.194.81 Sci-Hub.se Where is the line with 127.0.1.1? Debian always provides that. True, but I've never seen a description of what that does or what its for. I've seen expert explanations of why it is there. So I've removed it from every machine here because its out of scope for 127.0.0.1. An interesting technique when something does not fit with preconceived notions. Linits Debian's network setup but makes for a happyuser. Unti... to quote from your own doc on this: at section 5.1.1: For a system with a permanent IP address, that permanent IP address should be used here instead of 127.0.1.1. Also the next line but doesn't quite fit: For a system with a permanent IP address and a fully qualified domain name (FQDN) provided by the Domain Name System (DNS), that canonical host_name.domain_name should be used instead of just host_name. but the only dns server is my ISP. dns queries are pointed at the router, which if dnsmasq in the router does not have it cached, asks my isp's server. I have no clue what address that may be, all I care about is the response time which is typically in the 30 millisecond territory. Which is precisely what I am doing, Its a small local network hidden behind dd-wrt and ALL machines have a unique permanent address, and a hostname in /etc/hostname w/o a local dns service running anyplace. This thread is finished. Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>
Re: chrome web browser worthless
On 8/2/23 17:02, Brian wrote: On Wed 02 Aug 2023 at 16:00:24 -0400, gene heskett wrote: On 8/2/23 15:15, Brian wrote: On Wed 02 Aug 2023 at 14:52:26 -0400, gene heskett wrote: On 8/2/23 14:26, Brian wrote: No - that isn't the way it works. Give what is asked for, not a censored version that suits you. ok, same cat in full: gene@bpi52:~$ cat /etc/hosts 127.0.0.1 localhost 192.168.71.1router.coyote.den router 192.168.71.3coyote.coyote.den coyote 192.168.71.4sixty40.coyote.den sixty40 192.168.71.7vna.coyote.den vna 192.168.71.8rock64v2.coyote.den rock64v2 192.168.71.9bpi51.coyote.denbpi51 192.168.71.10 go704.coyote.dengo704 192.168.71.11 bpi53.coyote.denbpi53 192.168.71.12 bpi54.coyote.denbpi54 192.168.71.13 rpi4.coyote.den rpi4 192.168.71.21 scanner.coyte.den scanner 192.168.71.22 rock64.coyote.den rock64 192.168.71.23 bpi52.coyote.denbpi52 192.168.71.25 tlm.coyote.den tlm 192.168.71.50 dddprint.coyote.dn dddprint 31.184.194.81 Sci-Hub.se Where is the line with 127.0.1.1? Debian always provides that. True, but I've never seen a description of what that does or what its for. I've seen expert explanations of why it is there. So I've removed it from every machine here because its out of scope for 127.0.0.1. An interesting technique when something does not fit with preconceived notions. Linits Debian's network setup but makes for a happyuser. Unti... show mea link to the doc that explains that please Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>
Re: 127.0.1.1 line, was Re: chrome web browser worthless
On 3/8/23 07:34, Greg Wooledge wrote: On Wed 02 Aug 2023 at 16:00:24 (-0400), gene heskett wrote: On 8/2/23 15:15, Brian wrote: Where is the line with 127.0.1.1? Debian always provides that. True, but I've never seen a description of what that does or what its for. https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch05.en.html#_the_hostname_resolution As an aside, I checked my current debian 12 bookworm installation and found in /etc/nsswitch.conf this line hosts: files mdns4_minimal [NOTFOUND=return] dns myhostname mymachines when I do man nsswitch.conf there is no reference to mdns4_minimal I see from searching that mdns4_minimal is referenced reasonably often over the past few years but I can't find it defined. The question arises why it's not defined in man nsswitch.conf?
Re: 127.0.1.1 line, was Re: chrome web browser worthless
> On Wed 02 Aug 2023 at 16:00:24 (-0400), gene heskett wrote: > > On 8/2/23 15:15, Brian wrote: > > > Where is the line with 127.0.1.1? Debian always provides that. > > > > > True, but I've never seen a description of what that does or what its > > for. https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch05.en.html#_the_hostname_resolution One click away from the first result of my first Google search on the topic. Not hard to find at all. When you see something that you don't understand and your first reaction is "let's remove that!" it's no wonder you have so many problems.
127.0.1.1 line, was Re: chrome web browser worthless
On Wed 02 Aug 2023 at 16:00:24 (-0400), gene heskett wrote: > On 8/2/23 15:15, Brian wrote: > > On Wed 02 Aug 2023 at 14:52:26 -0400, gene heskett wrote: > > > On 8/2/23 14:26, Brian wrote: > > > > No - that isn't the way it works. Give what is asked for, not a censored > > > > version that suits you. > > > > > > > ok, same cat in full: > > > gene@bpi52:~$ cat /etc/hosts > > > 127.0.0.1 localhost > > > 192.168.71.1router.coyote.den router > > > 192.168.71.3coyote.coyote.den coyote > > > 192.168.71.4sixty40.coyote.den sixty40 > > > 192.168.71.7vna.coyote.den vna > > > 192.168.71.8rock64v2.coyote.den rock64v2 > > > 192.168.71.9bpi51.coyote.denbpi51 > > > 192.168.71.10 go704.coyote.dengo704 > > > 192.168.71.11 bpi53.coyote.denbpi53 > > > 192.168.71.12 bpi54.coyote.denbpi54 > > > 192.168.71.13 rpi4.coyote.den rpi4 > > > 192.168.71.21 scanner.coyte.den scanner > > > 192.168.71.22 rock64.coyote.den rock64 > > > 192.168.71.23 bpi52.coyote.denbpi52 > > > 192.168.71.25 tlm.coyote.den tlm > > > 192.168.71.50 dddprint.coyote.dn dddprint > > > 31.184.194.81 Sci-Hub.se > > > > Where is the line with 127.0.1.1? Debian always provides that. > > > True, but I've never seen a description of what that does or what its > for. AIUI it means that your hostname is always resolvable and reachable regardless of whether the network is yet configured. I assume the listing above was taken off one of the machines in the list. I assume you can always ping localhost and 127.0.1.1 (or, for that matter, 127.any.any.any) even if you remove its network cable (to save downing the interface). However, I would expect that you can't ping foo (where foo is the hostname) under the same circumstances (whereas I can). I have no idea whether it has anything to do with your problem; I kind of doubt it. I thought you'd solved that anyway, by typing in the full URL (and then bookmarking it, I hope). > So I've removed it from every machine here because its out of > scope for 127.0.0.1. I'm not sure what you mean by scope. 127.0.0.0 is /8 isn't it? Cheers, David.
Re: chrome web browser worthless
On 8/2/23 15:17, Greg Wooledge wrote: On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 08:14:41PM +0100, Brian wrote: Where is the line with 127.0.1.1? Debian always provides that. Either deleted, or not provided by Armbian in the first place. In any case, it's not immediately relevant to this thread's issue, so long as the web service doesn't redirect to the system's hostname. . That might be a possibility, but it comes and goes, sometimes bpi52:80 works, next week it doesn't. That does not get the google intercept, just a 403 when it fails. I might be able to buy your google excuses if it waited till I pressed enter on a filled in address line, but this requester ppps up, disabling the keyboard with the first click to get focus on the address line. And it pre-fills the address line with a 100+ character google address/path. You cannot convince me that is not intentional... Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>
Re: chrome web browser worthless
On 8/2/23 15:15, Brian wrote: On Wed 02 Aug 2023 at 14:52:26 -0400, gene heskett wrote: On 8/2/23 14:26, Brian wrote: No - that isn't the way it works. Give what is asked for, not a censored version that suits you. ok, same cat in full: gene@bpi52:~$ cat /etc/hosts 127.0.0.1 localhost 192.168.71.1router.coyote.den router 192.168.71.3coyote.coyote.den coyote 192.168.71.4sixty40.coyote.den sixty40 192.168.71.7vna.coyote.den vna 192.168.71.8rock64v2.coyote.den rock64v2 192.168.71.9bpi51.coyote.denbpi51 192.168.71.10 go704.coyote.dengo704 192.168.71.11 bpi53.coyote.denbpi53 192.168.71.12 bpi54.coyote.denbpi54 192.168.71.13 rpi4.coyote.den rpi4 192.168.71.21 scanner.coyte.den scanner 192.168.71.22 rock64.coyote.den rock64 192.168.71.23 bpi52.coyote.denbpi52 192.168.71.25 tlm.coyote.den tlm 192.168.71.50 dddprint.coyote.dn dddprint 31.184.194.81 Sci-Hub.se Where is the line with 127.0.1.1? Debian always provides that. True, but I've never seen a description of what that does or what its for. So I've removed it from every machine here because its out of scope for 127.0.0.1. Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>
Re: chrome web browser worthless
On 8/2/23, Brian wrote: > On Wed 02 Aug 2023 at 14:52:26 -0400, gene heskett wrote: > >> On 8/2/23 14:26, Brian wrote: >> > No - that isn't the way it works. Give what is asked for, not a >> > censored >> > version that suits you. >> > >> ok, same cat in full: >> gene@bpi52:~$ cat /etc/hosts >> 127.0.0.1 localhost < ... snip ... > > Where is the line with 127.0.1.1? Debian always provides that. $ egrep '^127' /etc/hosts 127.0.0.1 localhost lee@spot ~ $ uname -a Linux spot 5.10.0-23-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.10.179-2 (2023-07-14) x86_64 GNU/Linux Regards, Lee
Re: chrome web browser worthless
On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 08:14:41PM +0100, Brian wrote: > Where is the line with 127.0.1.1? Debian always provides that. Either deleted, or not provided by Armbian in the first place. In any case, it's not immediately relevant to this thread's issue, so long as the web service doesn't redirect to the system's hostname.
Re: chrome web browser worthless
Gene, On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 02:05:48PM -0400, gene heskett wrote: > this is a blatent attack by chrome You've absolutely no evidence to suggest that, and other people have already pointed out they are unable to replicate your issues. Like almost every thread you start or derail here this is overwhelmingly more likely to be user error than anything else. On top of that you're talking about non-Debian software on a non-Debian OS, so how about taking these ridiculous outbursts to a non-Debian forum? Like you've already been asked to do. Thanks, Andy -- https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting
Re: chrome web browser worthless
On 8/2/23 14:26, Brian wrote: On Wed 02 Aug 2023 at 13:07:13 -0400, gene heskett wrote: On 8/2/23 07:14, Greg Wooledge wrote: On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 08:43:32AM +0100, Darac Marjal wrote: * "localhost:80" - This is ambiguous [...] It would be nice if we had an exact recipe for how to reproduce the problem. Failing that, it'll be up to Gene to debug the situation on his end. I'm still leaning toward an edited /etc/hosts file. At this point Greg, I'll plead guilty to a hand edited /etc/hosts file. So here it is, tell me whats wrong: gene@bpi52:~$ cat /etc/hosts 127.0.0.1 localhost There is more of course but the rest of it is private local network (192.168.xxx.yyy) addresses of no concern here. No - that isn't the way it works. Give what is asked for, not a censored version that suits you. ok, same cat in full: gene@bpi52:~$ cat /etc/hosts 127.0.0.1 localhost 192.168.71.1router.coyote.den router 192.168.71.3coyote.coyote.den coyote 192.168.71.4sixty40.coyote.den sixty40 192.168.71.7vna.coyote.den vna 192.168.71.8rock64v2.coyote.den rock64v2 192.168.71.9bpi51.coyote.denbpi51 192.168.71.10 go704.coyote.dengo704 192.168.71.11 bpi53.coyote.denbpi53 192.168.71.12 bpi54.coyote.denbpi54 192.168.71.13 rpi4.coyote.den rpi4 192.168.71.21 scanner.coyte.den scanner 192.168.71.22 rock64.coyote.den rock64 192.168.71.23 bpi52.coyote.denbpi52 192.168.71.25 tlm.coyote.den tlm 192.168.71.50 dddprint.coyote.dn dddprint 31.184.194.81 Sci-Hub.se Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>
Re: chrome web browser worthless
On 8/2/23 13:21, Greg Wooledge wrote: On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 01:07:13PM -0400, gene heskett wrote: On 8/2/23 07:14, Greg Wooledge wrote: On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 08:43:32AM +0100, Darac Marjal wrote: * "localhost:80" - This is ambiguous [...] It would be nice if we had an exact recipe for how to reproduce the problem. Failing that, it'll be up to Gene to debug the situation on his end. I'm still leaning toward an edited /etc/hosts file. At this point Greg, I'll plead guilty to a hand edited /etc/hosts file. So here it is, tell me whats wrong: gene@bpi52:~$ cat /etc/hosts 127.0.0.1 localhost There is more of course but the rest of it is private local network (192.168.xxx.yyy) addresses of no concern here. Well, that looks reasonable. You're missing the IPv6 entry, but that probably doesn't matter. So, assuming there are no other occurrences of the word "localhost", whatever is causing the problem probably lies elsewhere. Did you attempt any other diagnostics? Typing the full URL including the http:// part, or launching Chrome with a new profile? Are you able to reproduce the problem consistently, and if so, how? What are the exact symptoms you see? Another thing to try, which I forgot to mention last time, would be using the IP address directly: http://127.0.0.1/ That bypasses any hostname lookup issues that may exist. It's pretty unlikely that a web service running on localhost would care whether you addressed it by name or by IP address (virtual hosts on loopback are not commonplace AFAIK). Its idle atm, so I'll give that a shot, brb. A click on the empty address line gets me a menu from google. this pops up with the first character typed, but if I continue with //127.0.0.1:80, I see a ; replacing the : and the 80 disappears but it does work, and I am looking at the klipper web page, used to run the printer. And everything seems to work. And work about 3x faster after I had used one of klipper/mainsail's options to check and update first the OS, and then all of kiauh. Screen response is around 3 or 4x faster, both on its own screen and with FF watching it at bpi52:80 from here. A welcome speedup. Thanks fpr the hint, Greg, very useful. . Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>
Re: chrome web browser worthless
On 8/2/23 09:42, Stefan Monnier wrote: It would be nice if we had an exact recipe for how to reproduce the problem. Failing that, it'll be up to Gene to debug the situation on his end. I'm still leaning toward an edited /etc/hosts file. My guess is that his Chrome runs in a kind of container that doesn't have access to the host's port 80. Similar to the problem of trying to print to a printer on your local network when you have a VPN active which redirects *all* network connections through the VPN. Stefan Stefan: I won't be that kind to the big G. Unless Greg W. can tell me I'm wrong with my localhost entry in my /etc/hosts file on that machine this is a blatent attack by chrome to feed the starving maw of the big G's appetite for data about what your are searching for, and because of that, my spam has input doubled in the last week based on my attempts to access localhost:80 on that machine. The big G hasn't a clue what to connect me to, but that sure as hell doesn't prevent them from harvesting the src address so they can spam me... Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>
Re: chrome web browser worthless
On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 01:07:13PM -0400, gene heskett wrote: > On 8/2/23 07:14, Greg Wooledge wrote: > > On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 08:43:32AM +0100, Darac Marjal wrote: > > > * "localhost:80" - This is ambiguous > > > > [...] > > > > It would be nice if we had an exact recipe for how to reproduce the > > problem. Failing that, it'll be up to Gene to debug the situation on > > his end. I'm still leaning toward an edited /etc/hosts file. > > > > At this point Greg, I'll plead guilty to a hand edited /etc/hosts file. > So here it is, tell me whats wrong: > > gene@bpi52:~$ cat /etc/hosts > 127.0.0.1 localhost > > There is more of course but the rest of it is private local network > (192.168.xxx.yyy) addresses of no concern here. Well, that looks reasonable. You're missing the IPv6 entry, but that probably doesn't matter. So, assuming there are no other occurrences of the word "localhost", whatever is causing the problem probably lies elsewhere. Did you attempt any other diagnostics? Typing the full URL including the http:// part, or launching Chrome with a new profile? Are you able to reproduce the problem consistently, and if so, how? What are the exact symptoms you see? Another thing to try, which I forgot to mention last time, would be using the IP address directly: http://127.0.0.1/ That bypasses any hostname lookup issues that may exist. It's pretty unlikely that a web service running on localhost would care whether you addressed it by name or by IP address (virtual hosts on loopback are not commonplace AFAIK).
Re: chrome web browser worthless
On 8/2/23 07:14, Greg Wooledge wrote: On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 08:43:32AM +0100, Darac Marjal wrote: * "localhost:80" - This is ambiguous [...] It would be nice if we had an exact recipe for how to reproduce the problem. Failing that, it'll be up to Gene to debug the situation on his end. I'm still leaning toward an edited /etc/hosts file. At this point Greg, I'll plead guilty to a hand edited /etc/hosts file. So here it is, tell me whats wrong: gene@bpi52:~$ cat /etc/hosts 127.0.0.1 localhost There is more of course but the rest of it is private local network (192.168.xxx.yyy) addresses of no concern here. Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>
Re: chrome web browser worthless
> It would be nice if we had an exact recipe for how to reproduce the > problem. Failing that, it'll be up to Gene to debug the situation on > his end. I'm still leaning toward an edited /etc/hosts file. My guess is that his Chrome runs in a kind of container that doesn't have access to the host's port 80. Similar to the problem of trying to print to a printer on your local network when you have a VPN active which redirects *all* network connections through the VPN. Stefan
Re: chrome web browser worthless
On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 08:43:32AM +0100, Darac Marjal wrote: > * "localhost:80" - This is ambiguous > > In the case of the latter, are you wanting to use the localhost scheme to > access the resource called 80 (now, you're going to say "There is no > protocol called localhost" and I think that Chrome used to know which > protocols exist but now it's a bit more agnostic)? Even doing it this way -- typing "localhost:80" into the URL/search bar and pressing Enter -- I still get the correct result. What I typed gets converted to "http://localhost/; but is displayed as merely "localhost" in the URL/search bar. I only know about the "http://localhost/; part because if I multi-click the URL and then paste it into a terminal, that's what I get. (I do find it disturbing that what you get in the copy/paste buffer is different from what you see in the application.) So, I'm still unable to reproduce Gene's results, even with your added guesswork. It would be nice if we had an exact recipe for how to reproduce the problem. Failing that, it'll be up to Gene to debug the situation on his end. I'm still leaning toward an edited /etc/hosts file.
Re: chrome web browser worthless
On 01/08/2023 10:33, gene heskett wrote: Google seems to have high jacked port 80, I cannot use it as a browser to run klipper as a google search intercepts port 80, so localhost:80 cannot be used for troubleshooting or for running a 3d printer with klipper.. I think this comes down to an ambiguity in how Chrome parses the input: * "Pictures of Cats" - Clearly not a URI, so pass it to the default search engine * "http://http.cat/302; - Clearly a URI, so navigate to it * "localhost:80" - This is ambiguous In the case of the latter, are you wanting to use the localhost scheme to access the resource called 80 (now, you're going to say "There is no protocol called localhost" and I think that Chrome used to know which protocols exist but now it's a bit more agnostic)? Try being explicit about the scheme (i.e. type "http://localhost:80;) and see if Chrome is happier. FF has no such problems. Cheers, Gene Heskett. OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: chrome web browser worthless
On Tuesday 01 August 2023 05:33:55 am gene heskett wrote: > Google seems to have high jacked port 80, I cannot use it as a browser > to run klipper as a google search intercepts port 80, so localhost:80 > cannot be used for troubleshooting or for running a 3d printer with > klipper.. > > FF has no such problems. > > Cheers, Gene Heskett. I would never consider using chrome, what with all of the "phone home" nonsense that's in it. Chromium is supposed to be an open-source (?) variant of that without all of that stuff included. You might consider giving that a try. -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin
Re: chrome web browser worthless
On 1/8/23 20:54, gene heskett wrote:
On 8/1/23 06:26, Bret Busby wrote:
On 1/8/23 17:33, gene heskett wrote:
Google seems to have high jacked port 80, I cannot use it as a
browser to run klipper as a google search intercepts port 80, so
localhost:80 cannot be used for troubleshooting or for running a 3d
printer with klipper..
FF has no such problems.
Cheers, Gene Heskett.
Willingly joining the google borg, by using chrome ("We have ways to
obtain and sell all of your private information"), leads to the user
having to take responsibility for the choice.
If you want an alternative to the fiery fox, you might want to try
Vivaldi and Pale Moon, although, I think that, with their protections,
they are a bit more resource demanding.
Not my choice, armbian's.
..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..
.
Cheers, Gene Heskett.
I have not been aware of the existence of anything named armbian, before
this thread, so, I know nothing of it.
..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..
Re: chrome web browser worthless
On 8/1/23 06:26, Bret Busby wrote:
On 1/8/23 17:33, gene heskett wrote:
Google seems to have high jacked port 80, I cannot use it as a browser
to run klipper as a google search intercepts port 80, so localhost:80
cannot be used for troubleshooting or for running a 3d printer with
klipper..
FF has no such problems.
Cheers, Gene Heskett.
Willingly joining the google borg, by using chrome ("We have ways to
obtain and sell all of your private information"), leads to the user
having to take responsibility for the choice.
If you want an alternative to the fiery fox, you might want to try
Vivaldi and Pale Moon, although, I think that, with their protections,
they are a bit more resource demanding.
Not my choice, armbian's.
..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..
.
Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
- Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>
Re: chrome web browser worthless
On Tue, Aug 01, 2023 at 08:13:50AM -0400, gene heskett wrote: > On 8/1/23 06:16, Phil Wyett wrote: > > On Tue, 2023-08-01 at 05:33 -0400, gene heskett wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > Maybe direct this to the appropriate arena. Debians default browser is > > Firefox, if there is no issue with FF means you are in the wrong place > > for this kind of statement/query. > > > > Regards > > > > Phil > > > While armbians default seems to be chrome. But I believe armbian is using > the debian repos. FF is installed as a snap, updated nightly from mozzilla, > which is a PITA but it does work. Google/Alphabet is turning into a bigger > PITA than M$. So I'll hit the armbian forum with this bitch. Thank you > Phil, take care & stay well. > > Cheers, Gene Heskett. Gene, With the best will in the world - this *isn't* a Debian problem. It's an armbian problem, maybe - it's a Gene problem, but it's not a problem with Debian-provided software. Similarly with snaps/AppImages/flatpaks - install from third party sites and you take yourself outside straightforward Debian - at whcih point it's time to go and raise complaints with your software provider. If you mix in packages from various sites, you create a sort of FrankenDebian - that's fine, but don't ask Debian to sort out the resultant problems when most of us here can only speak to Debian experience. All the very best, as ever, Andy > -- > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: > soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." > -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) > If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. > - Louis D. Brandeis > Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/> >
Re: chrome web browser worthless
On 8/1/23 06:16, Phil Wyett wrote: On Tue, 2023-08-01 at 05:33 -0400, gene heskett wrote: Google seems to have high jacked port 80, I cannot use it as a browser to run klipper as a google search intercepts port 80, so localhost:80 cannot be used for troubleshooting or for running a 3d printer with klipper.. FF has no such problems. Cheers, Gene Heskett. Hi, Maybe direct this to the appropriate arena. Debians default browser is Firefox, if there is no issue with FF means you are in the wrong place for this kind of statement/query. Regards Phil While armbians default seems to be chrome. But I believe armbian is using the debian repos. FF is installed as a snap, updated nightly from mozzilla, which is a PITA but it does work. Google/Alphabet is turning into a bigger PITA than M$. So I'll hit the armbian forum with this bitch. Thank you Phil, take care & stay well. Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>
Re: chrome web browser worthless
On Tue, Aug 01, 2023 at 05:33:55AM -0400, gene heskett wrote: > Google seems to have high jacked port 80, I cannot use it as a browser to > run klipper as a google search intercepts port 80, so localhost:80 cannot be > used for troubleshooting or for running a 3d printer with klipper.. > > FF has no such problems. On my system, with this package: ii google-chrome-stable 115.0.5790.110-1 amd64The web browser from Google and with Help -> About Google Chrome showing this version string: Version 115.0.5790.110 (Official Build) (64-bit) I cannot reproduce your result. Typing this URL: http://localhost:80/ gives me these messages: This site can’t be reached localhost refused to connect. Try: * Checking the connection * Checking the proxy and the firewall ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED I consider this a correct result, as I have no local web server running. unicorn:~$ telnet localhost 80 Trying ::1... Connection failed: Connection refused Trying 127.0.0.1... telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused So, at least with my current configuration, I see no evidence that Google Chrome "intercepts port 80". Perhaps something in your configuration is different. The standard next steps in such a situation would be to try with a brand new browser profile, or with a brand new user account that has never run Google Chrome before (which can be simulated by moving your dot-directories to new names temporarily, or not-simulated by actually creating a new user account and logging in as that account). I'm not sure what all of the dot-directories are, but I see ~/.config/google-chrome/ and ~/.cache/google-chrome as starting points. Or, if you prefer, you could try digging through your configuration to see what might be set incorrectly. I wouldn't relish that task. Maybe you could start with proxy settings, though. If I recall correctly, however, those have to be set with command-line arguments or environment variables. Or at least that was true once upon a time. ... oh! And one other thing you definitely should check is the definition of localhost in your /etc/hosts file. On a standard Debian system, you should have something like this: unicorn:~$ grep localhost /etc/hosts 127.0.0.1 localhost ::1 localhost ip6-localhost ip6-loopback Given your penchant for altering network configurations, it would not surprise me if you've customized this in a way that breaks something.
Re: chrome web browser worthless
On 1/8/23 17:33, gene heskett wrote:
Google seems to have high jacked port 80, I cannot use it as a browser
to run klipper as a google search intercepts port 80, so localhost:80
cannot be used for troubleshooting or for running a 3d printer with
klipper..
FF has no such problems.
Cheers, Gene Heskett.
Willingly joining the google borg, by using chrome ("We have ways to
obtain and sell all of your private information"), leads to the user
having to take responsibility for the choice.
If you want an alternative to the fiery fox, you might want to try
Vivaldi and Pale Moon, although, I think that, with their protections,
they are a bit more resource demanding.
..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..
Re: chrome web browser worthless
On Tue, 2023-08-01 at 05:33 -0400, gene heskett wrote: > Google seems to have high jacked port 80, I cannot use it as a > browser > to run klipper as a google search intercepts port 80, so localhost:80 > cannot be used for troubleshooting or for running a 3d printer with > klipper.. > > FF has no such problems. > > Cheers, Gene Heskett. Hi, Maybe direct this to the appropriate arena. Debians default browser is Firefox, if there is no issue with FF means you are in the wrong place for this kind of statement/query. Regards Phil -- Playing the game for the games sake. * Debian Maintainer Social: * Twitter: kathenasorg * Instagram: kathenasorg signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
chrome web browser worthless
Google seems to have high jacked port 80, I cannot use it as a browser to run klipper as a google search intercepts port 80, so localhost:80 cannot be used for troubleshooting or for running a 3d printer with klipper.. FF has no such problems. Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>
Re: Servidor-nfs--web-base_dades + pc_personal = Virtualbox ?
On 28-07-2023 14:47, Narcis Garcia wrote: Jo de moment et comento que les màquines virtuales les faig córrer amb Qemu-KVM des de fa anys, i em va bé. Sempre he trobat un o altre desavantatge amb els altres virtualitzadors de màquina completa; no recordo detalls. També et comento que, per a aprofitar millor els recursos de la màquina real (o fins i tot virtual) he utilitzat LXC per a executar escriptoris remots dins d'un o varis contenidors. La teoria funciona, però a la pràctica algunes aplicacions peten quan Linux no els dóna els exigents recursos que demanen. https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multitarea_apropiativa Això dels contenidors té l'avantatge de què no hi ha efecte bombolla: Quan una aplicació tanca i allibera memòria, la màquina mare també recupera la memòria lliure. Ara els escriptoris remots els fico en màquina virtual (KVM). Encara haig d'experimentar amb un entorn multiusuari per a escriptoris, com pretenia amb els contenidors. Els controls remots gràfics els faig sempre amb el protocol VNC en les seves variades modalitats, degut a la seva maduresa, llibertat i versatilitat de plataformes. No he trobat un protocol flexible amb tant programari lliure dedicat com VNC. Tot i amb això, crec que la gent que desenvolupa o mantén VNC ho té força descuidat. En comptes de NFS faig servir les capacitats de SSH, que em va semblar més fàcil d'implementar, tot i que consumeix força CPU. El tema de les intrusions: No posar tots els ous al mateix cistell, i la porta per on entres tu no ha de ser una porta que et presenti tots els recursos. La porta per on entres tu pot ser un entorn «controlat» a partir del qual pots obrir les segones portes als recursos. Gracies Narcis, pels comentaris. -- Jordi Perera
Re: Servidor-nfs--web-base_dades + pc_personal = Virtualbox ?
Jo de moment et comento que les màquines virtuales les faig córrer amb Qemu-KVM des de fa anys, i em va bé. Sempre he trobat un o altre desavantatge amb els altres virtualitzadors de màquina completa; no recordo detalls. També et comento que, per a aprofitar millor els recursos de la màquina real (o fins i tot virtual) he utilitzat LXC per a executar escriptoris remots dins d'un o varis contenidors. La teoria funciona, però a la pràctica algunes aplicacions peten quan Linux no els dóna els exigents recursos que demanen. https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multitarea_apropiativa Això dels contenidors té l'avantatge de què no hi ha efecte bombolla: Quan una aplicació tanca i allibera memòria, la màquina mare també recupera la memòria lliure. Ara els escriptoris remots els fico en màquina virtual (KVM). Encara haig d'experimentar amb un entorn multiusuari per a escriptoris, com pretenia amb els contenidors. Els controls remots gràfics els faig sempre amb el protocol VNC en les seves variades modalitats, degut a la seva maduresa, llibertat i versatilitat de plataformes. No he trobat un protocol flexible amb tant programari lliure dedicat com VNC. Tot i amb això, crec que la gent que desenvolupa o mantén VNC ho té força descuidat. En comptes de NFS faig servir les capacitats de SSH, que em va semblar més fàcil d'implementar, tot i que consumeix força CPU. El tema de les intrusions: No posar tots els ous al mateix cistell, i la porta per on entres tu no ha de ser una porta que et presenti tots els recursos. La porta per on entres tu pot ser un entorn «controlat» a partir del qual pots obrir les segones portes als recursos. El 28/7/23 a les 13:25, jordi Perera ha escrit: Bon dia a tothom El títol és tant complicat com el que us vull preguntar. Escenari actual del que tinc: Un Quad-core amb 4 GB que està exposat a internet 24x7 on hi tinc un servidor Apache + Postfix + Postgresql + NFS (amb les dades domestiques) I tres maquines més, totes diferents de maquinari i amb diferents versions de Debian, una al despatx (la grossa) , un altra al saló amb la TV, una al taller i de tant en tant engego un portàtil. Totes accedeixen per NFS a les dades, però no totes poden córrer els mateixos programes i no les tinc actualitzades. A més a més faig córrer programes que no hi són a Debian o que no hi són prou actualitzats, Freecad, Cura i que venen amb com appimage i es clar, els menús de les aplicacions son diferents, els escriptoris, els scripts. Depenent el que vulgui fer, haig d'anar a un PC o a un altre. Ara he aconseguit un ordinador I5 amb 32GB de ram i he pensat de muntar la Debian amb entorn gràfic, amb totes les aplicacions, i compartir l'escriptori amb totes les altres màquines. I en un segon pas muntar-hi una màquina virtual amb tot el servidor. Fins ara, mai he tingut cap intrusió, que jo hagi vist, i mira que no paren. I és clar el que vull fer em sembla més perillós que el que tinc ara. També podria fer-ho al revés, muntar el servidor amb tot el que tinc i a sobre fer-hi córrer la màquina virtual amb entorn gràfic i que fos aquesta màquina virtual qui compartís l'escriptori. De màquines virtuals, ara tinc un virtualbox amb un win7 només per poder manegar un gps, vull dir que l'he provat. Fa molts anys quan virtualbox era a les beceroles vaig fer alguna cosa amb un altre sistema però no me'n recordo ni del nom. I de compartir escriptori, fa 15 anys, a la feina, teníem muntada alguna cosa amb vnc, però ara no sabria ni com començar. Algú és vol esplaiar amb alguna opinió i o proposta ? Gràcies per haver llegit fins aquí ;-D -- Narcis Garcia __ I'm using this dedicated address because personal addresses aren't masked enough at this mail public archive. Public archive administrator should fix this against automated addresses collectors.
Servidor-nfs--web-base_dades + pc_personal = Virtualbox ?
Bon dia a tothom El títol és tant complicat com el que us vull preguntar. Escenari actual del que tinc: Un Quad-core amb 4 GB que està exposat a internet 24x7 on hi tinc un servidor Apache + Postfix + Postgresql + NFS (amb les dades domestiques) I tres maquines més, totes diferents de maquinari i amb diferents versions de Debian, una al despatx (la grossa) , un altra al saló amb la TV, una al taller i de tant en tant engego un portàtil. Totes accedeixen per NFS a les dades, però no totes poden córrer els mateixos programes i no les tinc actualitzades. A més a més faig córrer programes que no hi són a Debian o que no hi són prou actualitzats, Freecad, Cura i que venen amb com appimage i es clar, els menús de les aplicacions son diferents, els escriptoris, els scripts. Depenent el que vulgui fer, haig d'anar a un PC o a un altre. Ara he aconseguit un ordinador I5 amb 32GB de ram i he pensat de muntar la Debian amb entorn gràfic, amb totes les aplicacions, i compartir l'escriptori amb totes les altres màquines. I en un segon pas muntar-hi una màquina virtual amb tot el servidor. Fins ara, mai he tingut cap intrusió, que jo hagi vist, i mira que no paren. I és clar el que vull fer em sembla més perillós que el que tinc ara. També podria fer-ho al revés, muntar el servidor amb tot el que tinc i a sobre fer-hi córrer la màquina virtual amb entorn gràfic i que fos aquesta màquina virtual qui compartís l'escriptori. De màquines virtuals, ara tinc un virtualbox amb un win7 només per poder manegar un gps, vull dir que l'he provat. Fa molts anys quan virtualbox era a les beceroles vaig fer alguna cosa amb un altre sistema però no me'n recordo ni del nom. I de compartir escriptori, fa 15 anys, a la feina, teníem muntada alguna cosa amb vnc, però ara no sabria ni com començar. Algú és vol esplaiar amb alguna opinió i o proposta ? Gràcies per haver llegit fins aquí ;-D -- Jordi Perera
Re: [HS] Logiciel libre pour sites web
On 7/20/23 08:49, Michel Verdier wrote: Le 19 juillet 2023 k6dedijon a écrit : La ville de Paris met à disposition un logiciel libre pour la céation de sites web. il y aurait 500 plugins pour l'adapter à ses besoins. C'est effectivement HS et en plus du réchauffé : lutece est un projet qui semble remonter à 2002. Et tout petit comparé à des projets similaires, par exemple drupal, que ce soit en volume de code ou de la communauté. En plus récent, comme logiciel libre relatif aux sites web, on peut mentionner: La bibliothèque libonion (européenne) en C avec des bouts de C++. Sous licenses GPLv2+ et Apache2. J'y ai contribué quelques lignes de code: https://www.coralbits.com/libonion/ et https://github.com/davidmoreno/onion Le cadriciel Ocsigen (en Ocaml), principalement français. https://ocsigen.org/home/intro.html. Une forte originalité est qu'on code l'application Web en Ocaml annoté, et dans le même fichier source du code qui tourne dans le serveur Web et du code qui tourne sur le navigateur Web (il y a donc un compilateur d'Ocaml vers JavaScript). La bibliothèque Wt https://www.webtoolkit.eu/wt en C++. Elle ressemble et s'est inspirée de Qt https://www.qt.io/ (un cadriciel d'application graphique). La bibliothèque cpp-httplib en C++ https://github.com/yhirose/cpp-httplib (client et serveur HTTP/HTTPS) Qt permet aussi, et facilement, d'écrire un logiciel avec un navigateur Web embarqué. Comme serveur Web en logiciel libre on peut mentionner http://www.lighttpd.net/ sous license BSD. Et n'oubliez pas l'approche FastCGI pour vos applications Web. C'est un protocole binaire de communication entre un serveur Web et des applications clientes spécialisées. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FastCGI NB. pour ma part mon projet logiciel libre du moment est le moteur d'inférences (en C++) RefPerSys en https://github.com/RefPerSys/RefPerSys/ - pour lequel je cherche des contributeurs. -- Basile Starynkevitch (only mine opinions / les opinions sont miennes uniquement) 92340 Bourg-la-Reine, France web page: starynkevitch.net/Basile/
Re: [HS] Logiciel libre pour sites web
Le 19 juillet 2023 k6dedijon a écrit : > La ville de Paris met à disposition un logiciel libre pour la céation > de sites web. il y aurait 500 plugins pour l'adapter à ses besoins. C'est effectivement HS et en plus du réchauffé : lutece est un projet qui semble remonter à 2002. Et tout petit comparé à des projets similaires, par exemple drupal, que ce soit en volume de code ou de la communauté.
[HS] Logiciel libre pour sites web
La ville de Paris met à disposition un logiciel libre pour la céation de sites web. il y aurait 500 plugins pour l'adapter à ses besoins. https://lutece.paris.fr/fr/ En pièce jointe l'article de presse en PDF Bonne découverte Cassis 20230718-logiciels-libres-et-mutualisation-quand-paris-montre-lexemple.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document
Re: Feuille de calcul web + outil de sondage web
Bonjour, Ça a l’air très complet et surtout ergonomique (ex : changer la couleur d’une cellule en un clic comme dans un tableur ordinaire auquel on est habitués). Ça offre le chiffrement de bout en bout en même temps que la collaboration. Pour ça, je lis qu’ils intègrent le client d’OnlyOffice Spreadsheets avec un serveur maison. https://docs.cryptpad.org/en/FAQ.html S’il y avait une API, alors ce serait formidable. Merci. > Le 13 juil. 2023 à 08:58, Sébastien NOBILI > a écrit : > > Bonjour, > > Le 2023-07-12 18:26, RogerT a écrit : >> A-t-on un logiciel alternatif un peu plus sympa pour l’utilisateur ? >> Sondage « autre » : trop basique (oui/non/si nécessaire/ne se > > Tu trouveras peut-être ton bonheur là : https://cryptpad.fr/ > > C'est libre et auto-hébergeable. > > Sébastien >
Re: Feuille de calcul web + outil de sondage web
Bonjour, Le 2023-07-12 18:26, RogerT a écrit : A-t-on un logiciel alternatif un peu plus sympa pour l’utilisateur ? Sondage « autre » : trop basique (oui/non/si nécessaire/ne se Tu trouveras peut-être ton bonheur là : https://cryptpad.fr/ C'est libre et auto-hébergeable. Sébastien
Re: Feuille de calcul web + outil de sondage web
Le Wed, 12 Jul 2023 20:59:06 +0200, RogerT a écrit : > Si j’étais beaucoup plus à l’aise en programmation web, je le ferais > bien. Un framework léger serait alors bien utile pour ne pas traiter > tout le html à la main, non ? Ou un modèle. C'est là ou les outils comme ceux de framasoft sont utiles, tant qu'on reste sur un usage assez standard. En tout cas, sur le web il ne faut pas penser bureautique mais web et ce n'est pas parce qu'on peut faire plein de chose avec un outil comme un tableur qu'il est approprié pour un usage. On n'a pas besoin d'un tracteur pour livrer une pizza si je puis dire, même si on peu le faire avec un tracteur. Et puis très souvent on a des outils tellement sophistiqué qu'on perd de vue les choses les plus basiques. Non, les poissons de la mer ne sont pas carrés :)
Re: Feuille de calcul web + outil de sondage web
> Le 12 juil. 2023 à 19:47, Haricophile a écrit : > Le Wed, 12 Jul 2023 13:42:22 +0200, > RogerT a écrit : > >> Bonjour, >> >> Pour héberger une feuille de calcul accessible à différents >> utilisateurs simultanément, de quoi dispose-t-on ? (Comme alternative >> libre à quoi vous savez) >> >> Option accessoire : contrôle d’accès par utilisateur (à un classeur, >> une feuille, une cellule). >> >> Comme il s’agit juste de recueillir des informations nominatives >> relatives à la participation à un événement (nom, coordonnées, >> déplacement, hébergement, etc.), le réflexe Excel est commun. Mais >> n’existe-t-il pas un outil minimaliste pour entrer juste la chaque >> colonne de chaque participant une liste d’informations le concernant. >> Sans mise en forme sophistiquée et sans formules inutiles ? >> >> Ça pourrait aussi servir à faire un sondage en ligne pour connaître >> les dates de disponibilités de participants, ou leur avis sur une >> question (à la doodle). Mais peut-être existe-t-il un paquet dédié au >> sondage rapide et simple ? >> >> Merci. > > Pourquoi faire simple quand on peut faire compliqué ? Je veux dire par > là que un remplissage de formulaire balancé dans un tableau c'est une > technique assez primitive qui fonctionne depuis qu'on a inventé le > formulaire en HTML. > C’est pas faux ! C’est même très pertinent. Et ça réglerait les complications de mise en forme de cellule soulevées dans mon retour sur Ethercalc. Si j’étais beaucoup plus à l’aise en programmation web, je le ferais bien. Un framework léger serait alors bien utile pour ne pas traiter tout le html à la main, non ? Ou un modèle.
Re: Feuille de calcul web + outil de sondage web
Le Wed, 12 Jul 2023 13:42:22 +0200, RogerT a écrit : > Bonjour, > > Pour héberger une feuille de calcul accessible à différents > utilisateurs simultanément, de quoi dispose-t-on ? (Comme alternative > libre à quoi vous savez) > > Option accessoire : contrôle d’accès par utilisateur (à un classeur, > une feuille, une cellule). > > Comme il s’agit juste de recueillir des informations nominatives > relatives à la participation à un événement (nom, coordonnées, > déplacement, hébergement, etc.), le réflexe Excel est commun. Mais > n’existe-t-il pas un outil minimaliste pour entrer juste la chaque > colonne de chaque participant une liste d’informations le concernant. > Sans mise en forme sophistiquée et sans formules inutiles ? > > Ça pourrait aussi servir à faire un sondage en ligne pour connaître > les dates de disponibilités de participants, ou leur avis sur une > question (à la doodle). Mais peut-être existe-t-il un paquet dédié au > sondage rapide et simple ? > > Merci. > Pourquoi faire simple quand on peut faire compliqué ? Je veux dire par là que un remplissage de formulaire balancé dans un tableau c'est une technique assez primitive qui fonctionne depuis qu'on a inventé le formulaire en HTML.
Re: Feuille de calcul web + outil de sondage web
On 7/12/23 18:26, RogerT wrote: J’ai testé Ethercalc. La version d’essai hébergé est lente. J’imagine que c’est normal. Surtout le formatage des cellules est préhistorique : Ouvrir un menu-fenêtre très laid et incompréhensible. Ça risque de repousser des utilisateurs habitués à Excel ou l’équivalent en ligne. A-t-on un logiciel alternatif un peu plus sympa pour l’utilisateur ? Une solution technique est bien évidemment de coder au dessus de https://www.coralbits.com/libonion/ (en C, j'y ai contribué) ou https://www.webtoolkit.eu/wt (c'est européen) ou https://ocsigen.org/home/intro.html (c'est français). Bien sûr, il vous faut respecter le RGPD. https://www.cnil.fr/fr/comprendre-le-rgpd et d'autres reglémentations PS. Je cherche des contributeurs et futur utilisateurs au moteur d'inférences libre RefPerSys en https://github.com/RefPerSys/RefPerSys/ - si intéressés, contactez moi par courriel: au bureau (CEA LIST) vers basile.starynkevi...@cea.fr ou chez moi (en Île de France) vers bas...@starynkevitch.net -- Basile Starynkevitch (only mine opinions / les opinions sont miennes uniquement) 92340 Bourg-la-Reine, France web page: starynkevitch.net/Basile/
Re: Feuille de calcul web + outil de sondage web
Merci. Ça semble davantage correspondre à ce que je recherche pour des utilisateurs habitués à Excel. Mais ça semble ni libre ni gratuit. Open source pour onlyoffice. Collaboraoffive : payant ou gratuit en version CODE pour usage domestique et petite équipe https://www.collaboraoffice.com/code/. > Le 12 juil. 2023 à 14:47, JARRIGE Virgile (DNUM) > a écrit : > > Hello > >> Ça c’est de l’hébergé. Merci pour les infos. >> Je souhaite héberger ces outils en ligne. >> Merci. > > En général ces plateformes utilisent "onlyoffice" pour des fichiers microsoft > office et/ou "collaboraoffice" pour des fichiers libre/open office. > > Bon après-midi, > > Virgile
Re: Feuille de calcul web + outil de sondage web
J’ai testé Ethercalc. La version d’essai hébergé est lente. J’imagine que c’est normal. Surtout le formatage des cellules est préhistorique : Ouvrir un menu-fenêtre très laid et incompréhensible. Ça risque de repousser des utilisateurs habitués à Excel ou l’équivalent en ligne. A-t-on un logiciel alternatif un peu plus sympa pour l’utilisateur ? Framadate (alternative à doodle): Sondage date : c’est suffisant. Sondage « autre » : trop basique (oui/non/si nécessaire/ne se prononce pas). Mais pas de boutons radio. Les sondés peuvent donc répondre plusieurs choix alors qu’une seule réponse est attendue par le sondeur. Et il n’y a pas de test conditionnel (si répondu ça, alors appeler telle question). C’est plus sophistiqué et je ne m’attendais pas à trouver ça. > Le 12 juil. 2023 à 14:37, RogerT a écrit : > > > Bonjour > > Merci pour ta réponse rapide. > > J’ai trouvé vite : > https://framasoft.org/fr/ > https://degooglisons-internet.org/fr/ > > J’ai trouvé de suite l’alternative à G s… : > Ethercalc, qui était noyé sur le net dans des longues listes de > comparatifs/alternatives. > https://framalibre.org/content/ethercalc > > Et Framadat comme alternative à doodle : > https://framalibre.org/content/framadate > > Ça me plaît bien. > Merci. > > PS juridique > Sauf erreur, à partir du moment où l’application web collecte des infos > persos, en tant qu’hébergeur (ma machine ou celle d’un fournisseur d’IaaS, je > suis obligé de me conformer au RGPD. C’est-à-dire de proposer a minima la > possibilité de supprimer ces infos. > > Mais à partir du moment où chaque personne insère de plein gré ses infos > personnelles et des infos dont il est à la source, les édite (au sein d’un > groupe consentant à collaborer), et donc peux les supprimer librement, il me > semble que ça lève des contraintes. Toutes je ne sais pas. Le RGPD est une > lecture longue. > > Avez-vous une expérience juridique de ce « détail », quand on héberge une > application web pour un groupe de copains ou de personnes collaborant dans un > projet pzrso ou pro ? > Merci. > > >>> Le 12 juil. 2023 à 13:55, Jean-François Bachelet a >>> écrit : >>> >> Framasoft
Re: Feuille de calcul web + outil de sondage web
Il y a une API REST. Intéressant. Merci. > Le 12 juil. 2023 à 14:48, Fab a écrit : > > Le 12/07/2023 à 14:39, RogerT a écrit : >> Bonjour >> Ça c’est de l’hébergé. Merci pour les infos. >> Je souhaite héberger ces outils en ligne. > oops, j'ai été trop vite, dsl. > > du coup: https://github.com/audreyt/ethercalc > c'est ça qu'on utilise dans pas mal de CHATONS > > f. > > >
Re: Feuille de calcul web + outil de sondage web
Le 12/07/2023 à 14:39, RogerT a écrit : Bonjour Ça c’est de l’hébergé. Merci pour les infos. Je souhaite héberger ces outils en ligne. oops, j'ai été trop vite, dsl. du coup: https://github.com/audreyt/ethercalc c'est ça qu'on utilise dans pas mal de CHATONS f.
Re: Feuille de calcul web + outil de sondage web
Hello > Ça c’est de l’hébergé. Merci pour les infos. > Je souhaite héberger ces outils en ligne. > Merci. En général ces plateformes utilisent "onlyoffice" pour des fichiers microsoft office et/ou "collaboraoffice" pour des fichiers libre/open office. Bon après-midi, Virgile
Re: Feuille de calcul web + outil de sondage web
Bonjour Ça c’est de l’hébergé. Merci pour les infos. Je souhaite héberger ces outils en ligne. Merci. > Le 12 juil. 2023 à 14:13, Fab a écrit : > > hello, > > https://tableur.kaz.bzh/ > https://calc.ouvaton.coop/ > > etc... > > a+ > > f. > > >> Le 12/07/2023 à 13:42, RogerT a écrit : >> Bonjour, >> Pour héberger une feuille de calcul accessible à différents utilisateurs >> simultanément, de quoi dispose-t-on ? >> (Comme alternative libre à quoi vous savez) >> Option accessoire : contrôle d’accès par utilisateur (à un classeur, une >> feuille, une cellule). >> Comme il s’agit juste de recueillir des informations nominatives relatives à >> la participation à un événement (nom, coordonnées, déplacement, hébergement, >> etc.), le réflexe Excel est commun. >> Mais n’existe-t-il pas un outil minimaliste pour entrer juste la chaque >> colonne de chaque participant une liste d’informations le concernant. Sans >> mise en forme sophistiquée et sans formules inutiles ? >> Ça pourrait aussi servir à faire un sondage en ligne pour connaître les >> dates de disponibilités de participants, ou leur avis sur une question (à la >> doodle). >> Mais peut-être existe-t-il un paquet dédié au sondage rapide et simple ? >> Merci. > >
Re: Feuille de calcul web + outil de sondage web
Bonjour Merci pour ta réponse rapide. J’ai trouvé vite : https://framasoft.org/fr/ https://degooglisons-internet.org/fr/ J’ai trouvé de suite l’alternative à G s… : Ethercalc, qui était noyé sur le net dans des longues listes de comparatifs/alternatives. https://framalibre.org/content/ethercalc Et Framadat comme alternative à doodle : https://framalibre.org/content/framadate Ça me plaît bien. Merci. PS juridique Sauf erreur, à partir du moment où l’application web collecte des infos persos, en tant qu’hébergeur (ma machine ou celle d’un fournisseur d’IaaS, je suis obligé de me conformer au RGPD. C’est-à-dire de proposer a minima la possibilité de supprimer ces infos. Mais à partir du moment où chaque personne insère de plein gré ses infos personnelles et des infos dont il est à la source, les édite (au sein d’un groupe consentant à collaborer), et donc peux les supprimer librement, il me semble que ça lève des contraintes. Toutes je ne sais pas. Le RGPD est une lecture longue. Avez-vous une expérience juridique de ce « détail », quand on héberge une application web pour un groupe de copains ou de personnes collaborant dans un projet pzrso ou pro ? Merci. > Le 12 juil. 2023 à 13:55, Jean-François Bachelet a écrit > : > > Framasoft
Re: Feuille de calcul web + outil de sondage web
hello, https://tableur.kaz.bzh/ https://calc.ouvaton.coop/ etc... a+ f. Le 12/07/2023 à 13:42, RogerT a écrit : Bonjour, Pour héberger une feuille de calcul accessible à différents utilisateurs simultanément, de quoi dispose-t-on ? (Comme alternative libre à quoi vous savez) Option accessoire : contrôle d’accès par utilisateur (à un classeur, une feuille, une cellule). Comme il s’agit juste de recueillir des informations nominatives relatives à la participation à un événement (nom, coordonnées, déplacement, hébergement, etc.), le réflexe Excel est commun. Mais n’existe-t-il pas un outil minimaliste pour entrer juste la chaque colonne de chaque participant une liste d’informations le concernant. Sans mise en forme sophistiquée et sans formules inutiles ? Ça pourrait aussi servir à faire un sondage en ligne pour connaître les dates de disponibilités de participants, ou leur avis sur une question (à la doodle). Mais peut-être existe-t-il un paquet dédié au sondage rapide et simple ? Merci.
Re: Feuille de calcul web + outil de sondage web
hello Roger :) Le 12/07/2023 à 13:42, RogerT a écrit : Bonjour, Pour héberger une feuille de calcul accessible à différents utilisateurs simultanément, de quoi dispose-t-on ? (Comme alternative libre à quoi vous savez) Option accessoire : contrôle d’accès par utilisateur (à un classeur, une feuille, une cellule). Comme il s’agit juste de recueillir des informations nominatives relatives à la participation à un événement (nom, coordonnées, déplacement, hébergement, etc.), le réflexe Excel est commun. Mais n’existe-t-il pas un outil minimaliste pour entrer juste la chaque colonne de chaque participant une liste d’informations le concernant. Sans mise en forme sophistiquée et sans formules inutiles ? Ça pourrait aussi servir à faire un sondage en ligne pour connaître les dates de disponibilités de participants, ou leur avis sur une question (à la doodle). Mais peut-être existe-t-il un paquet dédié au sondage rapide et simple ? Merci. bien sur que ça existe, cherche 'Framasoft' et tu trouveras toutes sortes d'outils collaboratifs en ligne et d'usage gratuit édités sous licence libre par des français, dont celui que tu cherches :) je peux te dire que ça marche fort bien pour les avoirs utilisés. Jeff
Feuille de calcul web + outil de sondage web
Bonjour, Pour héberger une feuille de calcul accessible à différents utilisateurs simultanément, de quoi dispose-t-on ? (Comme alternative libre à quoi vous savez) Option accessoire : contrôle d’accès par utilisateur (à un classeur, une feuille, une cellule). Comme il s’agit juste de recueillir des informations nominatives relatives à la participation à un événement (nom, coordonnées, déplacement, hébergement, etc.), le réflexe Excel est commun. Mais n’existe-t-il pas un outil minimaliste pour entrer juste la chaque colonne de chaque participant une liste d’informations le concernant. Sans mise en forme sophistiquée et sans formules inutiles ? Ça pourrait aussi servir à faire un sondage en ligne pour connaître les dates de disponibilités de participants, ou leur avis sur une question (à la doodle). Mais peut-être existe-t-il un paquet dédié au sondage rapide et simple ? Merci.
Re: no web
Hello, I'm not an expert but I think you can use package `broadcom-sta-dkms`. You will find it in the non-free repo. Please refer to (Debian Packages)[https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/broadcom-sta-dkms] also. If you don't want use non-free packages I see not a real chance to get it unfortunately. But as I already said I#m not a deep expert. --- mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best Regards **Christian Lorenz** mailto:cl.debian.mail...@t-online.de --- Am 01.06.23 um 06:20 schrieb Aleix Piulachs: i’m using bullseye 7 in a hp compaq 6830s i386 intel pentium dual t3400 and i can’t find the network drivers broadcom BCM4312 802.11b/g LP-PHY (rev 01)
Re: no web
On 5/31/23 21:20, Aleix Piulachs wrote: i’m using bullseye 7 in a hp compaq 6830s i386 intel pentium dual t3400 and i can’t find the network drivers broadcom BCM4312 802.11b/g LP-PHY (rev 01) STFW "debian BCM4312", the first hit is: https://wiki.debian.org/bcm43xx David
no web
i’m using bullseye 7 in a hp compaq 6830s i386 intel pentium dual t3400 and i can’t find the network drivers broadcom BCM4312 802.11b/g LP-PHY (rev 01)
