date:20120915

El Fri, 14 Sep 2012 14:28:23 -0400, Ismael L. Donis Garcia escribió:

 El Fri, 14 Sep 2012 19:05:21 +0200, Alfonso escribió:
 
 Mi consulta es qué lenguaje y qué IDE capaz de diseñar interfaces
 gráficas me recomendáis. Las aplicaciones son a día de hoy muy
 sencillas, así que no tengo inconveniente en aprender un nuevo lenguaje
 si no lo conociese.
 
He visto cosas majas hechas con Python y las biblitecas de wxWidgets.
 
 
 Pero si has hecho cosas con Lazarus no  creo que te sea necesario
 aprender otro lenguaje.

Los lenguajes de programación quedan obsoletos en poco tiempo y 
precisamente Lazarus (basado en freepascal) no sea el más indicado para 
sacarle todo el jugo a la generación de interfaces modernas.

Saludos, 

-- 
Camaleón


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Conexion 3G con network-manager [error: No agents were available for this request]

2012-09-15 Thread Manuel Ramos

Buenas gente!

Les pido ayuda con el siguiente inconveniente:

Antes hice una instalación de debian testing con kde desde un DVD,
por supuesto instaló todo lo que tenía y simplemente conectaba el
modem 3G lo configuraba con network manager y funcionaba ok.

Ahora hice una instalacion nueva, solo los programas que necesito,
limpia, desde la iso netinstall, solo instalé el paquete
plasma-desktop (instala un kde minimo y básico), seguido de esto
instalé los paquetes network-manager-kde y usb-modeswitch para tener
funcionailidad 3g(quiero gestionar mis conexiones de forma grafica con
network-manager).

Detecta el modem, lo configura, pero cuando me quiero conectar me sale
un pop-up con el error: No agents were available for this request .
Consulte con Dios, perdón quise decir google, hay un par de bugs, pero
me llama la atención que cuando hice la instalación completa
funcionaba de maravilla (iniciaba KWalletManager me pedia configurar
una contraseña, luego recien me permitia conectarme mediante el
modem)..ahora nada de eso.

Alguien me puede iluminar?

Desde ya muchas gracias.

--
Manuel Ramos


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Re: del modem USB para RAS

El Fri, 14 Sep 2012 16:13:12 -0400, luis escribió:

 Eso eso mismo es eso es lo que necesito por dial-up, 

Si, lo sabemos...

 ta le sdigo instale y configuré todo por la pag de rar de debian lenny
 que uds mismo me recomendaron  pero en ese sitio viene conf para un
 modem serial y el mio es unZyzel USB y que al hacer la busqueda para
 ver  el modem me retorna esto con lsusb:
 
   Bus 002 Device 004: ID 0ace:1602 ZyDAS ZyXEL Omni FaxModem 56

Pero Luis, por todas las espirales habidas y por haber ¿quieres decirnos 
qué te devuelve este comando?

dmesg | grep -i tty

Hasta que no lo pongas no te puedo seguir ayudando :-(

 Pero cuando llamo por u  teléf o con un dial-up de XP, Win7 o Linux este
 moden en el servidor RAS donde configuré no me responde, debe al menos
 responder con un sonido como el del FAX cuando lo hago desde un telef ya
 de modem amodem lo  normal loguearme para poder ver el correo via web o
 navegar esto es lo que necesito pero hay algo que falta para que el
 modem responda

Quizá has configurado el puerto del módem mal en el inittab...

Saludos,

-- 
Camaleón


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Hardware de virtualbox

2012-09-15 Thread Ruben Cervantes Rodríguez

Hola mis saludos listeros soy nuevo en la lista y quisiera lanzar mi
primera pregunta, aqui vá ¿Cómo es posible cambiar el Hardware de la
maquina virtual en Virtualbox?. El virtualbox usa su propio hardware o el
de la maquina local, necesito saber si es posible que vitualbox use el
hardware de la maquina local saludos.


Lic. Ruben Cervantes Rodríguez
Instructor y administrador de red
JCCE Vtes1
Camagüey Cuba



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Re: Hardware de virtualbox

2012-09-15 Thread Flako

El día 15 de septiembre de 2012 11:39, Ruben Cervantes Rodríguez
ruben.cervan...@cmg.jovenclub.cu escribió:
 Hola mis saludos listeros soy nuevo en la lista y quisiera lanzar mi
 primera pregunta, aqui vá ¿Cómo es posible cambiar el Hardware de la
 maquina virtual en Virtualbox?. El virtualbox usa su propio hardware o el
 de la maquina local, necesito saber si es posible que vitualbox use el
 hardware de la maquina local saludos.



Tenes que leer sobre pci passthrough, VBox la soporta, pero no lo he usado.
Saludos.


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Re: [OT] Diseñar GUI. IDEs más utilizadosenDebian

- Original Message - 
From: Camaleón noela...@gmail.com

To: debian-user-spanish@lists.debian.org
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 10:09 AM
Subject: Re: [OT] Diseñar GUI. IDEs más utilizadosenDebian

El Fri, 14 Sep 2012 14:28:23 -0400, Ismael L. Donis Garcia escribió:

El Fri, 14 Sep 2012 19:05:21 +0200, Alfonso escribió:

Mi consulta es qué lenguaje y qué IDE capaz de diseñar interfaces
gráficas me recomendáis. Las aplicaciones son a día de hoy muy
sencillas, así que no tengo inconveniente en aprender un nuevo lenguaje
si no lo conociese.

He visto cosas majas hechas con Python y las biblitecas de wxWidgets.

Pero si has hecho cosas con Lazarus no  creo que te sea necesario
aprender otro lenguaje.

Los lenguajes de programación quedan obsoletos en poco tiempo y
precisamente Lazarus (basado en freepascal) no sea el más indicado para
sacarle todo el jugo a la generación de interfaces modernas.

Saludos,

Camaleón

Segura? Y como se desarrollaran las aplicación?
Con soplar y ya?

Lon lenguajes siempre existirán. Lo que cambia es el método de hacer las 
cosas y los lenguajes en si. Pero te aseguro que C++ nunca desaparecerá. Por 
no mencionar otro montón.

Yo se que pascal no es un lenguaje muy difundido, pero ha existido durante 
años de años y aun sigue desarrollándose.

Saludos
=
|| ISMAEL ||
= 

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Hardware de virtualbox

2012-09-15 Thread Ruben Cervantes Rodríguez

Bueno troll debian tal ves tu eres un ácido en la materia que sabes mucho
de linux y en especial la distribución debian y tienes más tiempo que yo
para descargarle por eso insultas de esa manera, hice la pregunta por que
cuando instalé mi SO en la maquina virtual no pude instalarle los drivers
que siempre uso en mi maq local pues no los acepta, si debe usar el mismo
hardware pero usando otra emulación no se de que tipo. Bueno pensé en que
me podían ayudar no insultarme ya que soy novato pero no te preocupes
encontraré la solución en otro lugar saludos a los que respondieron y
gracias.


Lic. Ruben Cervantes Rodríguez
Instructor y administrador de red
JCCE Vtes1
Camagüey Cuba



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Re: [OT] Diseñar GUI. IDEs más utilizadosenDebian

El Sat, 15 Sep 2012 10:55:01 -0400, Ismael L. Donis Garcia escribió:

 Pero si has hecho cosas con Lazarus no  creo que te sea necesario
 aprender otro lenguaje.

Los lenguajes de programación quedan obsoletos en poco tiempo y
precisamente Lazarus (basado en freepascal) no sea el más indicado para
sacarle todo el jugo a la generación de interfaces modernas.

 Segura? Y como se desarrollaran las aplicación? Con soplar y ya?

Creo que no me has entendido...

 Lon lenguajes siempre existirán. Lo que cambia es el método de hacer las
 cosas y los lenguajes en si. Pero te aseguro que C++ nunca desaparecerá.
 Por no mencionar otro montón.

Pues claro, pero es que yo no he dicho nada de eso (no sé de dónde te has 
sacado esa idea...). Para que me entiendas, a nadie se le ocurría a día 
de hoy usar BASIC para pintar una interfaz en la pantalla (espero que 
captes la analogía).

 Yo se que pascal no es un lenguaje muy difundido, pero ha existido
 durante años de años y aun sigue desarrollándose.

Me parece muy bien pero no se trata de mayor o menor difusión (o uso) de 
un lenguaje u otro sino de las posibilidades y la flexibilidad que 
ofrecen. Cada lenguaje de programación se centra en unas características 
específicas y Pascal no se desarrolló precisamente para el diseño de 
interfaces modernas.

Saludos,

-- 
Camaleón


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Re: Hardware de virtualbox

2012-09-15 Thread Troll Debian

Antes de encontrar respuestas deberas encontrar la pregunta

2012/9/15 Ruben Cervantes Rodríguez ruben.cervan...@cmg.jovenclub.cu

 Bueno troll debian tal ves tu eres un ácido en la materia que sabes mucho
 de linux y en especial la distribución debian y tienes más tiempo que yo
 para descargarle por eso insultas de esa manera, hice la pregunta por que
 cuando instalé mi SO en la maquina virtual no pude instalarle los drivers
 que siempre uso en mi maq local pues no los acepta, si debe usar el mismo
 hardware pero usando otra emulación no se de que tipo. Bueno pensé en que
 me podían ayudar no insultarme ya que soy novato pero no te preocupes
 encontraré la solución en otro lugar saludos a los que respondieron y
 gracias.


 Lic. Ruben Cervantes Rodríguez
 Instructor y administrador de red
 JCCE Vtes1
 Camagüey Cuba



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Re: Conexion 3G con network-manager [error: No agents were available for this request]

El Sat, 15 Sep 2012 11:11:09 -0300, Manuel Ramos escribió:

(...)

 Detecta el modem, lo configura, pero cuando me quiero conectar me sale
 un pop-up con el error: No agents were available for this request .
 Consulte con Dios, perdón quise decir google, hay un par de bugs, pero
 me llama la atención que cuando hice la instalación completa funcionaba
 de maravilla (iniciaba KWalletManager me pedia configurar una
 contraseña, luego recien me permitia conectarme mediante el
 modem)..ahora nada de eso.
 
 Alguien me puede iluminar?

Compara ambas versiones de network-manager para ver si son las mismas en 
los dos equipos. 

De todas formas, por el tipo de error podría ser cosa del KWallet que es 
quien se encarga de gestionar las contraseñas de las aplicaciones, mira a 
ver si lo tienes instalado e iniciado.

Saludos,

-- 
Camaleón


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Re: Hardware de virtualbox

2012-09-15 Thread Edwin Dlca

Tarde o temprano todos alguna vez necesitamos ayuda y muy probablemente la
seguiremos necesitando.
Si alguien no esta en lo correcto o no sabe la forma tecnica de hacer una
pregunta debemos guiarlos para que hagan las preguntas correctas. Muchos
somos aficionados sin estudios especificos de hardware o software o S.O. El
conocimiento debe ser universal y debe ser compartido, hay que evolucionar
ayudando no todo lo contrario.

El 15 de septiembre de 2012 10:39, Troll Debian
esdebiantr...@gmail.comescribió:

 Antes de encontrar respuestas deberas encontrar la pregunta


 2012/9/15 Ruben Cervantes Rodríguez ruben.cervan...@cmg.jovenclub.cu

 Bueno troll debian tal ves tu eres un ácido en la materia que sabes mucho
 de linux y en especial la distribución debian y tienes más tiempo que yo
 para descargarle por eso insultas de esa manera, hice la pregunta por que
 cuando instalé mi SO en la maquina virtual no pude instalarle los drivers
 que siempre uso en mi maq local pues no los acepta, si debe usar el mismo
 hardware pero usando otra emulación no se de que tipo. Bueno pensé en que
 me podían ayudar no insultarme ya que soy novato pero no te preocupes
 encontraré la solución en otro lugar saludos a los que respondieron y
 gracias.


 Lic. Ruben Cervantes Rodríguez
 Instructor y administrador de red
 JCCE Vtes1
 Camagüey Cuba



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Re: Hardware de virtualbox

El Sat, 15 Sep 2012 10:39:05 -0400, Ruben Cervantes Rodríguez escribió:

 Hola mis saludos listeros soy nuevo en la lista 

Bienvenido :-)

 y quisiera lanzar mi primera pregunta, aqui vá ¿Cómo es posible cambiar
 el Hardware de la maquina virtual en Virtualbox?. 

Esto vas a tener que explicarlo un poco más... ¿qué es lo que quieres 
hacer exactamente?

 El virtualbox usa su propio hardware o el de la maquina local, necesito
 saber si es posible que vitualbox use el hardware de la maquina local
 saludos.

VirtualBox usa el hardware del equipo local pero lo simula, es decir, 
usa sus propia capa de abstracción y sus drivers.

Esto no es negociable ya que es intrínseco a este tipo de sistema de 
virtualización, lo único que te permite hacer es usar el disco duro en 
bruto (raw) en lugar de tener que crear una imagen de disco  
virtual (.vdi, .vmdk, etc...).

Saludos,

-- 
Camaleón


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Re: Hardware de virtualbox

2012-09-15 Thread Ruben Cervantes Rodríguez


El Sab, 15 de Septiembre de 2012, 11:47 am, Camaleón escribió:
 El Sat, 15 Sep 2012 10:39:05 -0400, Ruben Cervantes RodrÃguez escribiÃ³:


 Hola mis saludos listeros soy nuevo en la lista


 Bienvenido :-)


 y quisiera lanzar mi primera pregunta, aqui vÃ¡ Â¿CÃ³mo es posible
 cambiar el Hardware de la maquina virtual en Virtualbox?.

 Esto vas a tener que explicarlo un poco mÃ¡s... Â¿quÃ© es lo que quieres
 hacer exactamente?

 El virtualbox usa su propio hardware o el de la maquina local, necesito
  saber si es posible que vitualbox use el hardware de la maquina local
 saludos.

 VirtualBox usa el hardware del equipo local pero lo simula, es decir,
 usa sus propia capa de abstracciÃ³n y sus drivers.

 Esto no es negociable ya que es intrÃnseco a este tipo de sistema de
 virtualizaciÃ³n, lo Ãºnico que te permite hacer es usar el disco duro en
 bruto (raw) en lugar de tener que crear una imagen de disco virtual
 (.vdi, .vmdk, etc...).


 Saludos,


 --
gracias por la respuesta ahora entiendo por que no lo veía igual.



Lic. Ruben Cervantes Rodríguez
Instructor y administrador de red
JCCE Vtes1
Camagüey Cuba



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Re: Hardware de virtualbox

- Original Message - 
From: Ruben Cervantes Rodríguez ruben.cervan...@cmg.jovenclub.cu

To: debian-user-spanish@lists.debian.org
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 11:03 AM
Subject: Hardware de virtualbox

Bueno troll debian tal ves tu eres un ácido en la materia que sabes mucho
de linux y en especial la distribución debian y tienes más tiempo que yo
para descargarle por eso insultas de esa manera, hice la pregunta por que
cuando instalé mi SO en la maquina virtual no pude instalarle los drivers
que siempre uso en mi maq local pues no los acepta, si debe usar el mismo
hardware pero usando otra emulación no se de que tipo. Bueno pensé en que
me podían ayudar no insultarme ya que soy novato pero no te preocupes
encontraré la solución en otro lugar saludos a los que respondieron y
gracias.

Lic. Ruben Cervantes Rodríguez
Instructor y administrador de red
JCCE Vtes1
Camagüey Cuba

Cuando lleves 1 mes en la lista estarás curado de espanto de las 
barbaridades que se dicen por esta lista.

Explícate un poco mejor para ver si te podemos ayudar.

Virtualbox sobre que sistema lo tienes corriendo? y que sistema estás 
tratando de instalar?

Yo por ejemplo tengo como SO base Debian 6 y como PC virtuales WinXP SP3 y 
Win2003 R2.

También he tenido en Virtuales Debian 6 y Mint 10.

Uso VirtualBox 3.2.14 sobre debian sin problema alguno. Para la red uso 
adaptador puente sobre la tarjeta de red y funciona de lujo.

Saludos
=
|| ISMAEL ||
= 

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Re: [OT] Diseñar GUI. IDEs más utilizadosenDebian

- Original Message - 
From: Ismael L. Donis Garcia ism...@citricos.co.cu

To: debian-user-spanish@lists.debian.org
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 10:55 AM
Subject: Re: [OT] Diseñar GUI. IDEs más utilizadosenDebian

Los lenguajes de programación quedan obsoletos en poco tiempo y
precisamente Lazarus (basado en freepascal) no sea el más indicado para
sacarle todo el jugo a la generación de interfaces modernas.

Saludos,

Camaleón

Segura? Y como se desarrollaran las aplicación?
Con soplar y ya?

Lon lenguajes siempre existirán. Lo que cambia es el método de hacer las 
cosas y los lenguajes en si. Pero te aseguro que C++ nunca desaparecerá. 
Por no mencionar otro montón.

Yo se que pascal no es un lenguaje muy difundido, pero ha existido durante 
años de años y aun sigue desarrollándose.

Saludos
=
|| ISMAEL ||
=

Se me olvidó hacerte una pregunta:

Y como seguirán desarrollando entonces Debian?

Si van a desaparecer los lenguajes de programación. jajaja

Saludos.
=
|| ISMAEL ||
= 

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Re: Hardware de virtualbox

2012-09-15 Thread Cristian Mitchell

El día 15 de septiembre de 2012 12:47, Camaleón noela...@gmail.com escribió:
 El Sat, 15 Sep 2012 10:39:05 -0400, Ruben Cervantes Rodríguez escribió:

 Hola mis saludos listeros soy nuevo en la lista

 Bienvenido :-)

 y quisiera lanzar mi primera pregunta, aqui vá ¿Cómo es posible cambiar
 el Hardware de la maquina virtual en Virtualbox?.

 Esto vas a tener que explicarlo un poco más... ¿qué es lo que quieres
 hacer exactamente?

 El virtualbox usa su propio hardware o el de la maquina local, necesito
 saber si es posible que vitualbox use el hardware de la maquina local
 saludos.

 VirtualBox usa el hardware del equipo local pero lo simula, es decir,
 usa sus propia capa de abstracción y sus drivers.

 Esto no es negociable ya que es intrínseco a este tipo de sistema de
 virtualización, lo único que te permite hacer es usar el disco duro en
 bruto (raw) en lugar de tener que crear una imagen de disco
 virtual (.vdi, .vmdk, etc...).

 Saludos,

 --
 Camaleón


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agrego a lo que comento camaleon

lo que estas viendo se deve a que el  harware de tu equipo ya esta
siendo utilizado por tu kernel

aclaro que nu e usado mucho virtualbox

pero en kvm o qemu se ve mejor el tema que te lleva a tu duda

la emulacion tiene imagenes de harware que se corre para emular e equipo virtual

en el virtual box no lo se, pero en quemu si se puede cambiar estas
imagenes de harware

la cual en años nunca he encontrado un porque hacerlo

saludos



-- 
MrIX
Linux user number 412793.
http://counter.li.org/

las grandes obras,
las sueñan los santos locos,
las realizan los luchadores natos,
las aprovechan los felices cuerdo,
y las critican los inútiles crónicos,


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Re: Hardware de virtualbox

2012-09-15 Thread Troll Debian

2012/9/15 Ismael L. Donis Garcia ism...@citricos.co.cu

- Original Message - From: Ruben Cervantes Rodríguez
ruben.cervantes@cmg.**jovenclub.cu ruben.cervan...@cmg.jovenclub.cu
To:
debian-user-spanish@lists.**debian.orgdebian-user-spanish@lists.debian.org

Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 11:03 AM
Subject: Hardware de virtualbox

Bueno troll debian tal ves tu eres un ácido en la materia que sabes mucho
de linux y en especial la distribución debian y tienes más tiempo que yo
para descargarle por eso insultas de esa manera, hice la pregunta por que
cuando instalé mi SO en la maquina virtual no pude instalarle los drivers
que siempre uso en mi maq local pues no los acepta, si debe usar el mismo
hardware pero usando otra emulación no se de que tipo. Bueno pensé en que
me podían ayudar no insultarme ya que soy novato pero no te preocupes
encontraré la solución en otro lugar saludos a los que respondieron y
gracias.

Lic. Ruben Cervantes Rodríguez
Instructor y administrador de red
JCCE Vtes1
Camagüey Cuba

Cuando lleves 1 mes en la lista estarás curado de espanto de las
barbaridades que se dicen por esta lista.

Ejemplo de barbaridad que se dice por esta lista:

necesito saber si es posible que vitualbox use el hardware de la maquina
local

Explícate un poco mejor para ver si te podemos ayudar.

Virtualbox sobre que sistema lo tienes corriendo? y que sistema estás
tratando de instalar?

Yo por ejemplo tengo como SO base Debian 6 y como PC virtuales WinXP SP3 y
Win2003 R2.

También he tenido en Virtuales Debian 6 y Mint 10.

Uso VirtualBox 3.2.14 sobre debian sin problema alguno. Para la red uso
adaptador puente sobre la tarjeta de red y funciona de lujo.

Saludos
=
|| ISMAEL ||
=

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Re: Hardware de virtualbox

2012-09-15 Thread Cristian Mitchell

El día 15 de septiembre de 2012 13:08, Troll Debian
esdebiantr...@gmail.com escribió:

2012/9/15 Ismael L. Donis Garcia ism...@citricos.co.cu

- Original Message - From: Ruben Cervantes Rodríguez
ruben.cervan...@cmg.jovenclub.cu
To: debian-user-spanish@lists.debian.org
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 11:03 AM
Subject: Hardware de virtualbox

Lic. Ruben Cervantes Rodríguez
Instructor y administrador de red
JCCE Vtes1
Camagüey Cuba

Cuando lleves 1 mes en la lista estarás curado de espanto de las
barbaridades que se dicen por esta lista.

Ejemplo de barbaridad que se dice por esta lista:

necesito saber si es posible que vitualbox use el hardware de la maquina
local

Lo que se discute no es el que si no el como!
y entiendo tu frustracion!
pero si todos nos tratamos asi mañana terminamos a los tiros y se
desvirtua la lista

Explícate un poco mejor para ver si te podemos ayudar.

Virtualbox sobre que sistema lo tienes corriendo? y que sistema estás
tratando de instalar?

Yo por ejemplo tengo como SO base Debian 6 y como PC virtuales WinXP SP3 y
Win2003 R2.

También he tenido en Virtuales Debian 6 y Mint 10.

Uso VirtualBox 3.2.14 sobre debian sin problema alguno. Para la red uso
adaptador puente sobre la tarjeta de red y funciona de lujo.

Saludos
=
|| ISMAEL ||
=

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--
MrIX
Linux user number 412793.
http://counter.li.org/

las grandes obras,
las sueñan los santos locos,
las realizan los luchadores natos,
las aprovechan los felices cuerdo,
y las critican los inútiles crónicos,

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Re: [OT] Diseñar GUI. IDEs más utilizadosenDebian

El Sat, 15 Sep 2012 11:44:35 -0400, Ismael L. Donis Garcia escribió:

 Se me olvidó hacerte una pregunta:
 
 Y como seguirán desarrollando entonces Debian?
 
 Si van a desaparecer los lenguajes de programación. jajaja

Casi hubiera sido mejor que no hubieras hecho la pregunta X-)

Saludos,

-- 
Camaleón


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Re: Hardware de virtualbox

2012-09-15 Thread JulHer

El sáb, 15-09-2012 a las 10:39 -0400, Ruben Cervantes Rodríguez
escribió:
 Hola mis saludos listeros soy nuevo en la lista y quisiera lanzar mi
 primera pregunta, aqui vá ¿Cómo es posible cambiar el Hardware de la
 maquina virtual en Virtualbox?. El virtualbox usa su propio hardware o
 el
 de la maquina local, necesito saber si es posible que vitualbox use el
 hardware de la maquina local saludos. 

Los únicos cambios que puedes hacer en el hardware son los que te
propone el propio virtualbox. Digamos que hay una máquina virtual que se
le presenta a los sistemas operativos invitados y estos no ven otra cosa
que lo que el virtualbox les dice que hay. De todos modos puedes usar
los puertos de red, USB, sonido... 

Un saludo

JulHer





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Re: [OT] Diseñar GUI. IDEs másutilizadosenDebian

- Original Message - 
From: Camaleón noela...@gmail.com

To: debian-user-spanish@lists.debian.org
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 11:33 AM
Subject: Re: [OT] Diseñar GUI. IDEs másutilizadosenDebian

El Sat, 15 Sep 2012 10:55:01 -0400, Ismael L. Donis Garcia escribió:

Creo que no me has entendido...

De seguro que no.

Me parece muy bien pero no se trata de mayor o menor difusión (o uso) de
un lenguaje u otro sino de las posibilidades y la flexibilidad que
ofrecen. Cada lenguaje de programación se centra en unas características
específicas y Pascal no se desarrolló precisamente para el diseño de
interfaces modernas.

Ahí estás en un error. Pascal hoy por hoy se sigue desarrollando. Y de hecho 
es Libre. Y esta abierto para todo el que quiera participar en su desarrollo 
lo puede hacer.

Y ya cuenta con un IDE también libre que es Lazarus que recien salió la 
versión 1.0 El cual está aun muy inmaduro, pero eso no quiere decir que no 
es puedan realizar aplicaciones con el enteramente profesional con dicho 
sistema. De hecho en la empresa donde trabajo ya existen aplicaciones que 
corren sobre Lazarus.

Y otra cosa corre perfectamente sobro Debian. Te invito a que pases por la 
página oficial de Lazarus y descargues la versión .tar.bz2 previo haber 
descargado e instalado fpc-2.6.0-1.deb.tar

Y verás que sencillo es hacer lo que el compañero necesita. Todo eso se hace 
en 1 o 2 minutos, no más.

Saludos,

Camaleón

Saludos Cordiales
=
|| ISMAEL ||
= 

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Re: [OT] Diseñar GUI. IDEs más utilizadosenDebian

2012-09-15 Thread Alfonso

[...]
[...]

Haya paz! :)

Bueno, lo primero agradeceros a todxs vuestro tiempo y vuestras
respuestas. Han sido de gran ayuda :)

Intentaré para evitar aumentar el caos de información resumir un poco
los apuntes que habéis ido haciendo y a continuación contestar todas
las preguntas conjuntamente.

Tened en cuenta que aunque lo hago como puedo, no tengo ni idea de
programación, es decir, nunca lo estudié de otra manera que no fuera
autodidacta y por tanto me faltan muchas bases, así que disculpad por
los errores conceptuales más o menos graves que pueda cometer.

Lenguaje - IDE/RAD

Python - wxWidgets
C++ - Qt Creator
Java - Eclipse / NetBeans / KDevelop
Object Pascal - Lazarus
Tcl/Tk - Visual TCL
C - Glade Anjuta (GTK+)
Bash - Zenity (GTK)
Bash - Kommander
Varios - Qt Creator (Qt), Glade (GTK), wxGlade (wxWidgets),
Anjuta, Boa-constructor

Como decía antes, no sé cómo relacionar la GUI con el código si no es
que el mismo IDE lo hace solito, creo que a esto se le llama RAD, y
Lazarus ya me lo hace, pero la cosa es que me gustaría aprender a
hacerlo en un lenguaje y de una forma más extendida en el mundo
Debian, que por lo que veo por ejemplo aquí[1] parece ser lenguaje C o
C++.

Marc, ya conozco Zenity, de hecho es con lo que he trabajado en esta
aplicación hasta ahora, y que no funcione por ejemplo en Windows no me
preocupa nada, porque además tampoco funcionarían los comandos que
hace la aplicación. Pero Zenity no deja de ser diálogos para un script
y me gustaría hacer una aplicación con su propia GUI.

Edwin, el puro texto, por muchas ganas e ilusión que le ponga a esto,
se me va de las manos de momento.

Ahora mismo la tengo escrita es Bash+Zenity[2] y en Pascal+Lazarus, y
si siendo realista no creo que nadie se ponga a colaborar en el
desarrollo, así que tampoco importa tanto en qué lenguaje o de qué
forma lo haga, pues será problema mío, pero sí me gustaría como digo
programar las aplicaciones que pueda hacer de la forma más parecida a
la que están desarrolladas la mayoría de aplicaciones Debian, así que
al final me inclino por C++ y Qt Creator. Ya lo tengo instalado y lo
he probado y me parece que me irá muy bien para lo que yo necesito.

Muchas muchas gracias a todxs de nuevo y un saludo!

[1] 
http://curso-sobre.berlios.de/introsobre/2.0.1/sobre.html/debian.html#table-debian-languages
(y tabla anterior).
[2] http://pastebin.com/GCxNV5pg

Alfonso
In a world without frontiers, who needs gates and windows?


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Re: [OT] Diseñar GUI. IDEs másutilizadosenDebian

El Sat, 15 Sep 2012 12:45:46 -0400, Ismael L. Donis Garcia escribió:

Creo que no me has entendido...
 
 De seguro que no.

Ismael, te has montado la película tú solo.
 
Me parece muy bien pero no se trata de mayor o menor difusión (o uso) de
un lenguaje u otro sino de las posibilidades y la flexibilidad que
ofrecen. Cada lenguaje de programación se centra en unas características
específicas y Pascal no se desarrolló precisamente para el diseño de
interfaces modernas.
 
 Ahí estás en un error. Pascal hoy por hoy se sigue desarrollando. Y de
 hecho es Libre. Y esta abierto para todo el que quiera participar en su
 desarrollo lo puede hacer.

¿?

Sigues con tu película, no sé de dónde te sacas todas esas cosas que 
dices porque no tiene nada que con lo que te estoy diciendo, tienes mucha 
imaginación o es que sigues sin entender absolutamente nada.

En fin, cuando quieras mantener una conversación coherente avisa :-)

Saludos,

-- 
Camaleón


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Re: Conexion 3G con network-manager [error: No agents were available for this request]

2012-09-15 Thread Manuel Ramos

On Sáb 15 Sep 2012 12:40:47 Camaleón escribió:
 Compara ambas versiones de network-manager para ver si son las mismas en 
 los dos equipos. 

Ambas versiones de networkmanager son las mismas (0.9.4.0-5)

 De todas formas, por el tipo de error podría ser cosa del KWallet que es 
 quien se encarga de gestionar las contraseñas de las aplicaciones, mira a 
 ver si lo tienes instalado e iniciado.


Si, KWallet esta iniciado y funcionando, ya que al configurar kmail, me 
solicito configurar la contraseña.

El tema me parece, es que existe algun otro paquete que en conjunto con el 
paquete netkwork-manager-kde brinda la funcionalidad que quiero, me refiero a 
que conecte el modem y me permita iniciar una conexion exitosa, sin ese error. 
O alguna configuracion que desconozco.

Estas son las dependencias:

~$ apt-cache depends network-manager-kde
   
network-manager-kde 

   
  Depende: plasma-widget-networkmanagement

 
~$ apt-cache depends plasma-widget-networkmanagement
plasma-widget-networkmanagement 

   
  Depende: kde-runtime  

   
  Depende: libc6

   
  Depende: libgcc1  

   
  Depende: libkcmutils4 

   
  Depende: libkdecore5  

   
  Depende: libkdeui5

   
  Depende: libkio5  

   
  Depende: libknotifyconfig4
  Depende: libplasma3
  Depende: libqt4-dbus
  Depende: libqt4-network
  Depende: libqt4-svg
  Depende: libqt4-xml
  Depende: libqtcore4
  Depende: libqtgui4
  Depende: libsolid4
  Depende: libsolidcontrol4abi2
  Depende: libstdc++6
  Depende: network-manager
  Depende: mobile-broadband-provider-info
  Sugiere: kdebase-workspace-bin
  Recomienda: kwalletmanager
  Recomienda: network-manager-vpnc
  Recomienda: network-manager-openvpn
  Recomienda: network-manager-pptp
  Rompe: knm-runtime
  Reemplaza: knm-runtime


Saludos.


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Dia do Cliente - Parabéns!!

2012-09-15 Thread Feira das Toalhas

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wireless

2012-09-15 Thread Manoel Pedro de Araújo

Olá, amigos, uso debian squeeze, interface kde, compilei o rt3090, so que o
wireless nao navega

quando rodo o comando  iwconfig, me fornece

lono wireless extensions.

eth0  no wireless extensions.

wlan0 Ralink STA  ESSID:  Nickname:RT2860STA
  Mode:Auto  Frequency=2.412 GHz  Access Point: Not-Associated
  Bit Rate:1 Mb/s
  RTS thr:off   Fragment thr:off
  Encryption key:off
  Link Quality=10/100  Signal level:0 dBm  Noise level:-115 dBm
  Rx invalid nwid:0  Rx invalid crypt:0  Rx invalid frag:0
  Tx excessive retries:0  Invalid misc:0   Missed beacon:0

pan0  no wireless extensions.


-- 
Manoel

Re: wireless

2012-09-15 Thread Gunther Furtado

Sáb, 15.09.2012, Manoel Pedro de Araújo disse:

 Olá, amigos, uso debian squeeze, interface kde, compilei o rt3090, so
 que o wireless nao navega
 
 quando rodo o comando  iwconfig, me fornece
 
 lono wireless extensions.
 
 eth0  no wireless extensions.
 
 wlan0 Ralink STA  ESSID:  Nickname:RT2860STA
   Mode:Auto  Frequency=2.412 GHz  Access Point: Not-Associated
   Bit Rate:1 Mb/s
   RTS thr:off   Fragment thr:off
   Encryption key:off
   Link Quality=10/100  Signal level:0 dBm  Noise level:-115
 dBm Rx invalid nwid:0  Rx invalid crypt:0  Rx invalid frag:0
   Tx excessive retries:0  Invalid misc:0   Missed beacon:0
 
 pan0  no wireless extensions.
 


Como vc mencionou o KDE, eu pergunto: o network-manager-kde está
instalado?

abraço,

-- 

Cuando la guática pide comídica
Pone al cristiánico firme y guerrérico
Por sus poróticos y sus cebóllicas,
No hay regimiéntico que los deténguica
Si tienen hámbrica los populáricos. Violeta Parra

Gunther Furtado
Curitiba - Paraná - Brasil
gunfurt...@gmail.com
skype:gunfurtado


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Re: wireless

2012-09-15 Thread Manoel Pedro de Araújo

Está sim isntalado

2012/9/15 Gunther Furtado gunfurt...@gmail.com

 Sáb, 15.09.2012, Manoel Pedro de Araújo disse:

  Olá, amigos, uso debian squeeze, interface kde, compilei o rt3090, so
  que o wireless nao navega
 
  quando rodo o comando  iwconfig, me fornece
 
  lono wireless extensions.
 
  eth0  no wireless extensions.
 
  wlan0 Ralink STA  ESSID:  Nickname:RT2860STA
Mode:Auto  Frequency=2.412 GHz  Access Point: Not-Associated
Bit Rate:1 Mb/s
RTS thr:off   Fragment thr:off
Encryption key:off
Link Quality=10/100  Signal level:0 dBm  Noise level:-115
  dBm Rx invalid nwid:0  Rx invalid crypt:0  Rx invalid frag:0
Tx excessive retries:0  Invalid misc:0   Missed beacon:0
 
  pan0  no wireless extensions.
 


 Como vc mencionou o KDE, eu pergunto: o network-manager-kde está
 instalado?

 abraço,

 --

 Cuando la guática pide comídica
 Pone al cristiánico firme y guerrérico
 Por sus poróticos y sus cebóllicas,
 No hay regimiéntico que los deténguica
 Si tienen hámbrica los populáricos. Violeta Parra

 Gunther Furtado
 Curitiba - Paraná - Brasil
 gunfurt...@gmail.com
 skype:gunfurtado


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Manoel

Re: wireless

2012-09-15 Thread Gunther Furtado

Sáb, 15.09.2012, Manoel Pedro de Araújo disse:

 Está sim isntalado
 

E ele enxerga as redes a sua volta?



 2012/9/15 Gunther Furtado gunfurt...@gmail.com
 
  Sáb, 15.09.2012, Manoel Pedro de Araújo disse:
 
   Olá, amigos, uso debian squeeze, interface kde, compilei o
   rt3090, so que o wireless nao navega
  
   quando rodo o comando  iwconfig, me fornece
  
   lono wireless extensions.
  
   eth0  no wireless extensions.
  
   wlan0 Ralink STA  ESSID:  Nickname:RT2860STA
 Mode:Auto  Frequency=2.412 GHz  Access Point:
   Not-Associated Bit Rate:1 Mb/s
 RTS thr:off   Fragment thr:off
 Encryption key:off
 Link Quality=10/100  Signal level:0 dBm  Noise
   level:-115 dBm Rx invalid nwid:0  Rx invalid crypt:0  Rx invalid
   frag:0 Tx excessive retries:0  Invalid misc:0   Missed beacon:0
  
   pan0  no wireless extensions.
  
 
 
  Como vc mencionou o KDE, eu pergunto: o network-manager-kde está
  instalado?
 
  abraço,
 
  --
 
  Cuando la guática pide comídica
  Pone al cristiánico firme y guerrérico
  Por sus poróticos y sus cebóllicas,
  No hay regimiéntico que los deténguica
  Si tienen hámbrica los populáricos. Violeta Parra
 
  Gunther Furtado
  Curitiba - Paraná - Brasil
  gunfurt...@gmail.com
  skype:gunfurtado
 
 
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 -- 
 Manoel


-- 

Cuando la guática pide comídica
Pone al cristiánico firme y guerrérico
Por sus poróticos y sus cebóllicas,
No hay regimiéntico que los deténguica
Si tienen hámbrica los populáricos. Violeta Parra

Gunther Furtado
Curitiba - Paraná - Brasil
gunfurt...@gmail.com
skype:gunfurtado


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Preseed for Wheezy - Multi-disk Alternative

2012-09-15 Thread ray

From what I have read, it looks like preseeding is only good for one
disk.  So I am looking for alternatives.

I would guess that it would be possible to write a script for partman. 
So I wonder how/where/when such a script should be run.  Any suggest on
scripting for partman would be appreciated.

Are there other ways to partition multiple drives during an automated
installation?

The installation is from a USB stick.

ray


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Re: Dual-Monitor help

Nelson Green wrote:
 Hi Bob,
 
 You bring up an interesting point. I am running XFCE, and that is because
 the limited amount of research I did into window managers told me it was
 the simplest complete solution, and I did not have time to learn how to
 configure a simple system.

It all depends upon your definition of complete.  For some complete
means everything and then some more.  GNOME folks thinks it means 3D
hardware acceleration.  For people like me it means simply a way to
manage windows.

 As a DBA, the only use I have ever had for a GUI was creating an XP VM
 to load MySQL Administrator and MySQL Query Browser on, way back
 when I was studying for the certs.

I do almost all of my MySQL administration in a text terminal.  Other
people like the GUI though and so I usually install phpmyadmin for
them to use in their web browser.  I almost never use it myself
though.  Just personal preference.  I like being able to recall and
edit my previous command lines.

 I do everything else in a CLI, either a real terminal (if that is
 the correct term for TTYs),

Hmm...  A real serial terminal like a VT100?  (I actually still own a
vt102.  But it is noisy and slow.  Mostly it is my footrest these
days.)

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VT100

 or an XTerm (Terminal in XFCE).

Technically those are terminal emulators.  But in casual conversation
we are often sloppy and imprecise when referring to things.

 When I came on board here everyone was using phpmyadmin and
 phppgadmin. I gave up on both of those after about five minutes and
 went back to mysql and psql.

That is my preferred way to deal with them too.

 I have never installed a GUI on a Linux server,

No X window system at all?  So you only operate from the raw text
console?  Impressive.  Not even the 'twin' text window manager?

  http://sourceforge.net/projects/twin/

:-) I am saying this part half joking.  I rather wish it were packaged
for Debian.  Using it and aalib to view videos would be a hoot.

 That being said, my current position involves supporting a Drupal driven
 front-end to my DB backends, as well as custom PHP/Javascript pages, so I
 have no choice but to run a GUI of some type. I would like to learn to do so
 with a minimal footprint if you would be willing to share some tips. I find
 my primary use of the GUI is email, the web apps I have to support, and
 Guayadeque for my classical music fixes. I know there are text based
 versions of all, and I use Lynx quite extensively and Alpine to a lesser 
 degree
 (everyone is into multimedia email these days *sigh*).

I live in emacs and always have one running.  I have many text windows
and many virtual rooms to organize my work.  I spend a lot of time in
the text editor.  I spend a lot of time working in text windows.  I
switch between them using the keyboard.  I usually have two to three
windows visible at any time.  More than that and they would be too
small.  Less and I find I need another one.  At any time two to three
is perfect and almost always one of them is emacs such as now typing
in this response.  And at this time emacs is a text terminal version
running from mutt.

 Other than those, all I really need is dual monitors so I can update
 things in Terminal and refresh the page in the web browser, and a
 locking screen saver, for which xscreensaver works just fine. In
 fact I wouldn't mind just having TTY1 on one monitor and the GUI on
 the other if that is possible.
 
 So, if you don't mind, what do you use, and how much time is involved in
 setting it up?

I used FVWM since somewhere in the early 1990's specifically because
it existed as a fully functional window manager that wasn't changing.
It was stable over decades.  Think of the Ubuntu Unity transition, the
KDE 3-4 transition, the GNOME 2-3 transition, all very disruptive
thrashes for their users.  Using fvwm I missed all of those because
fvwm has been stable throughout.  (I also missed the hpwm - mwm -
CDE thrash too by using fvwm but fewer people today would remember
those these days.)  FVWM is a good window manager and is actually the
ancestor of the XFCE window manager.

In any case, a stock fvwm with default configuration is quite usable.
I have customized mine somewhat.  One of the best features is the
pager and I have changed mine to cover the entire bottom of the
screen and to have many virtual rooms available.

But most recently I have converted to using tiling window managers.  I
am currently typing this in while running the 'awesome' window manager.

  http://awesome.naquadah.org/

It is a small lightweight tiling window manager.  It doesn't require a
mouse and all operations can be done through the keyboard.  I haven't
configured it from the default configuation.  I just start it and use
the default settings.  So as to your question about how much time was
involved in setting it up the answer is so far zero.  I have been
wondering how to configure the clock from the default and may actually
create a

Re: Storage server

Martin Steigerwald wrote:
 Am Freitag, 7. September 2012 schrieb Bob Proulx:
  Unfortunately I have some recent FUD concerning xfs.  I have had some
  recent small idle xfs filesystems trigger kernel watchdog timer
  ...
  due to these lockups.  Squeeze.  Everything current.  But when idle it
  would periodically lock up and the only messages in the syslog and on
 
 Squeeze and everything current?
 No way. At least when using 2.6.32 default squeeze kernel. Its really old.
 Did you try with the latest 3.2 squeeze-backports kernel?

But in the future when when Debian Jessie is being released I am going
to be reading then on the mailing list about how old and bad Linux 3.2
is and how it should not be used because it is too old.  How can it be
really good now when it is going to be really bad in the future when
supposedly we know more then than we do now?  :-)

For my needs Debian Stable is a really very good fit.  Much better
than Testing or Unstable or Backports.

Meanwhile I am running Sid on my main desktop machine.  I upgrade it
daily.  I report bugs as I find them.  I am doing so specifically so I
can test and find and report bugs.  I am very familiar with living on
Unstable.  Good for developers.  Not good for production systems.

Bob


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Re: FN Key to Enable/Disable Touchpad

On Vi, 14 sep 12, 22:38:20, Dr Beco wrote:
 Hi there,
 
 The Touchpad key (FN + F3) that allows to enable/disable toutchpad is not
 working in Debian Wheezy.
 
 I have a DELL vostro v131, and KDE. Multimidia FN keys works nice, and
 enable/disable wifi and bluetooth also works great.
 I'm not sure about FN+F1 that changes monitor, but I'll find out soon.
 Bright and keyboard light also works great.
 
 Unfortunately, disable touchpad does not. It is a very important key for
 those who type a lot.

Most Fn keys need some configuration in software. Probably the more used 
ones are already configured by default. See if you get some event from 
it with 'xev'. If you do you can configure KDE to do something on that 
event.

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: new version of less pager

Austyg wrote:
 Thanks to all for good clues.
 v451 of less is desirable because it adds support for GNU regular 
 expressions.

Hmm...  It does say that in the upstream changelog.

I am unfamiliar with GNU regular expressions.  How are they different
from either POSIX regular expressions or PCRE (perl compatible regular
expressions) both of which are already supported by less?

 Since the to do section of http://packages.qa.debian.org/l/less.html says:
 
 A new upstream version is available: 451, you should consider packaging it.

That is the automated standard display when the Debian watchfile has
detected a newer version upstream.

 It looks like it will eventually move through unstable,  and next
 iteration of testing.  I'll keep an eye open for it.

 I'll try the back-ports route if my need becomes pressing.

Remember that for it to be a candidate for Backports then it must
have appeared in Unstable first and have migrated to Testing.
Otherwise it isn't a candidate for Backports.

Bob


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Re: [Conclusion] Looking for an emacs replacement

Vincent Chen wrote:
 Since you've been using Emacs for the past 15 years, I hope you do
 realize you can disable all the GUI clutter by setting:
 
 (menu-bar-mode -1)
 (tool-bar-mode -1)
 (scroll-bar-mode -1)
 
 in your ~/.emacs (though I do keep the scroll bar around, easier to
 read than the percentage in the mode line).

I have a lot of that in my .emacs file.  Here is a small listing of
these types of fixes that I use.  And yes I know that every one of
these features that I am turning off were highly desired by someone
else who wanted them enough to code them in as the new default.

Bob

(if (= emacs-major-version 20)
(menu-bar-mode -1))

(if (= emacs-major-version 21)
(if window-system
(tool-bar-mode -1)))

(if (= emacs-major-version 22)
(progn
  ;; Have *Buffer List* use old-style header without white on green 
highlight.
  (setq Buffer-menu-use-header-line nil)
  ;; Disable dark blue on dark background in minibuffer.
  (set-face-foreground 'minibuffer-prompt nil)))

(if (= emacs-major-version 23)
(progn
  (setq transient-mark-mode nil)
  (setq line-move-visual nil)
  (setq search-whitespace-regexp nil)
  (setq split-width-threshold nil)))

;; Disable nasty white on green highlighting in electric-buffer-mode.
;; We use eval-after-load to monkey patch after ebuf-menu is loaded
;; as that's where the bad definition of electric-buffer-mode is located.
(eval-after-load ebuff-menu '(defun electric-buffer-update-highlight ()))

;; Stop the annoying question about exiting with shell processes still running.
(eval-after-load 'shell
  '(add-hook 'comint-exec-hook
 '(lambda ()
(set-process-query-on-exit-flag (get-process shell) nil


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Re: Grub2 with multiple Debians

2012-09-15 Thread Ralf Mardorf


  This wprked fine with LILO and GRUB 1, where I was in control of
  configuratino files and could explicitly specify which root partitions
  went with which boot partitions/

Why don't you simply get rid of the updater if you need GRUB2? That's
what I did, resp. as I've written before, I currently switched back to
GRUB legacy.

Regards,
Ralf

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forbid free expression, especially not if people simply tell the truth
or if they make satire that isn't demagogically. Even demagogically
material wouldn't make civilized people killing people and burning
houses.


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Re: ntpd crashes.

Mauro wrote:
 What's the difference of running ntpdate instead ntp with cron?

'ntpdate' jumps the clock.  It was intended for use at system boot
time when that is okay to do.  'ntpd' is a daemon that runs and makes
small clock adjustments as needed to keep time without jumping it.

The 'ntpdate' command is now deprecated.  It's functionality has been
written into the ntp daemon code.  The ntpd daemon now has ntpdate
functionality with:

  $ man ntpd

   -g Normally, ntpd exits with a message to the system log if the 
offset
  exceeds  the  panic  threshold,  which  is 1000 s by default.  
This
  option allows the time to be set to any value without  
restriction;
  however,  this  can happen only once.  If the threshold is 
exceeded
  after that, ntpd will exit with a message to the system log.   
This
  option can be used with the -q and -x options.

   -q Exit  the  ntpd  just  after the first time the clock is set.  
This
  behavior mimics that  of  the  ntpdate  program,  which  is  to  
be
  retired.   The  -g  and  -x  options  can be used with this 
option.
  Note: The kernel time discipline is disabled with this option.

Running ntpd to adjust the clock continuously is much better than
jumping the clock with ntpdate.

Bob


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Re: Grub2 with multiple Debians


On 09/15/12 00:42, Hendrik Boom wrote:

On Fri, 14 Sep 2012 23:25:03 +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:


On Vi, 14 sep 12, 17:12:38, Hendrik Boom wrote:


Of course, after I've made my copy (with slight changes to /etc/fstab)
I have two nearly identical sets of partitions, so it may be tricky to
tell them apart.  Is grub2 clever enough to figure it all out anyway?
And what data does it use to this end? (so I can make sure it's right!)


UUIDs? What failure mode(s) do you have in mind, because I can't think
of any.


It probably is os-prober that I mean.  The misconfiguration I have in
mind is matching one system's /boot with another systems's /.  I've had
it happen on a laptop sometime ago. and it sure messed up my upgrades.  I
have no idea how it happened, but it has made me paranoid.

-- hendrik





Hi.

Useless entries in grub.cfg (with non-matched kernel and root, e.g. 
kernel from stable and root from testing) or probably even no correct 
one - is normal for 30_os-prober and 10_linux scripts. I don't think, 
that there is a simply way to fix them.


Though, here is quote from [1] about making grub2 able to boot two OSes 
without useless entries:


__QUOTE__

I'll use following terms:
- grubdir is directory, where all grub modules and other stuff have
  installed by grub-install. It is usually /boot/grub, but may be set to
  'DIR/grub' using '--boot-directory DIR' option of grub-install.

Here suggested two schemes for booting several Linux systems with grub2. They
are designed to satisfy following requirments:
- update-grub should work in all Linux systems and does not break
  anything.
- No incorrect and useless menuentries, which often generated by
  /etc/grub.d/30_os-prober script.
- New linux system should not ruin boot, if update-grub will accidently
  run on it with default config.
- OS kernel and initrd should be stored on corresponding OS root
  partition. This is OS-dependent data and i don't want to store it in
  shared location (like shared boot partition). Also, if OS will be moved
  to some other computer, kernel and initrd will still be there.

Generally, there is two approaches to this problem:
- One main config (grub.cfg), which have created and updated by hand (or
  some other method, but not by update-grub), and many OS-specific
  configs, which have generated and updated by update-grub from
  corresponding OS.  Main config should find and load OS-specific ones.
- One merged config. Merge should occur during generation or update by
  update-grub from any OS.

Because each OS may run update-grub, second approach requires each OS to have
specific merge script in the /etc/grub.d, and if it is not there (for newly
installed OS), update-grub will overwrite grub.cfg making all other systems
unbootable. Hence, i'm not considering second approach further, and choosing
first one.

Main grub config should be stored on the shared boot partition, but
OS-specific ones may be stored on either shared boot partititon as well or on
OS root partition. I can't definitely say, that OS-specific grub config
belongs to OS or to grub. On the one hand, OS-specific config is generated
using OS-specific scripts from /etc/grub.d, and, hence, belongs to OS. But, on
the other hand, grub-mkconfig and scripts from /etc/grub.d may read files from
grubdir and make some choices depending on their content (and they actually
will), hence, OS-specific config depends on particular grub installation and
belongs to grub. In other words, OS-specific grub.cfg depends on both OS
configuration and bootloader features available.

__END_QUOTE__

Note, that suggested above approach requires one edited by hand grub,cfg
along with automatically generated others.

[1]: http://sgf-dma.blogspot.com/2012/07/multiboot-with-grub-2.html


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Re: Grub2 with multiple Debians

On Sb, 15 sep 12, 13:40:16, Dmitriy Matrosov wrote:
 
 Note, that suggested above approach requires one edited by hand grub,cfg
 along with automatically generated others.

I've solved this by having one grub in the MBR and installing each grub 
in the corresponding first sector of the partition. Not recommended by 
grub, but it works.

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: Installation

2012-09-15 Thread Ralf Mardorf

On Sat, 2012-09-15 at 04:36 -0700, Weaver wrote:
 Network is detected automagically through dhcp.

Here in the German Ruhrgebiet most people I know use a router, but
perhaps in other parts of the world, people use other ways to get
connected to the Internet. I for example use PPPoE.

 Hostname: Debian

What is a hostname ;)? I like to be able to name the host, but perhaps
this should move to the experts install.

Regards,
Ralf

-- 
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forbid free expression, especially not if people simply tell the truth
or if they make satire that isn't demagogically. Even demagogically
material wouldn't make civilized people killing people and burning
houses.


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Re: Installation

On Sb, 15 sep 12, 04:36:36, Weaver wrote:
 
  Partitioning: Entire disc selected. Separate /home selected.
 In my opinion, the third option of separate /usr, /var, /tmp/ /home here
 are wasted, as anybody that is going for that sort of option set are
 probably going to go for the more fine-grained approach the 'Expert
 Install' option caters to.

Agreed. How about a wishlist bug against d-i?
 
  Computed Partitions.
 
 / = 10 GB – Bootable ext3 – I would probably go for a little more than
 this, because the newbie appetite wants to try out everything! koffice,
 libreoffice, calligra, gnomeoffice along with gnumeric and abiword to see
 what they look like and make a preferred selection. Likewise with every
 single video player, music player, browser and mail client. They'll pare
 everything down after the first six months when decisions are made, but
 they need plenty of room initially. I'd be looking at at least 12.5 GB.
 Worked out on the percentage of drive space, of course.

Is this a guess or did you actually calculate the installed size?

 /swap = 4.1 GB which fits nicely with the 2 GB of RAM.
 /home =105.9 GB ext3.
 
 I wondered at ext3 being the default, instead of ext4, but that may well
 be just the time slot that squeeze fitted into.

This and the fact that Debian people are quite conservative when 
switching defaults. I hope it is (going to be) changed for wheezy, 
didn't check though.

[...]

 Here's an example – rough, not at all polished:
 ~
  Partitioning
 Partitions are allocated areas on your hard drive, set by the installer,
 where different parts of your working operating system reside.

I'd remove set by the installer since the user might have done that.

 The root (/) partition is where all your programmes will be installed and
 must be bootable so that your operating system is accessible after
 installation.

Ok.

 The swap partition is an area on your hard drive where process exchange
 takes place when your system is working. It is the equivalent of 'Virtual
 Memory'.

Still very technical, and why the reference to Virtual Memory? Let me 
take a shot:

The swap partition is a scratch area on your hard drive used by the 
operating system.

 The home (/home) partition is where all your personal and professional
 data will be kept.

Ok.

 By selecting any of these – arrow keys and 'enter', you can adjust the
 size of them to suit your particular needs. This automatic partitioning
 would probably be most suitable for initial use, however you will still be
 able to adjust their size in the future if needed.
 ~~

Mmm, the last sentence seems to imply that re-partitioning is easy, 
which it is not, especially in such a setup. As said before, I'd rather 
go for all in one partition, which solves the / size problem above and 
won't require repartitioning later.

 There is absolutely no need to get into $ cat /etc/fstab at this point in
 time. Or separate /boot partitions, or any other complexity. They'll get
 to that later. What is required now is to convey the simplest of pictures,
 but still convey the required information and only the required
 information. This provides information, orientation and a jumping off
 point for further advancement, without the confusion born of complexity.

Agreed.

 So, onward we go
 
[...]
 
 There might, from a newbie perspective, need to be a short note at the
 proxy configure stage. What's a proxy?

I'd go for an addition like:

If you don't know what a proxy is just leave this blank.

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: Installation

On Sb, 15 sep 12, 13:51:50, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
 On Sat, 2012-09-15 at 04:36 -0700, Weaver wrote:
  Network is detected automagically through dhcp.
 
 Here in the German Ruhrgebiet most people I know use a router, but
 perhaps in other parts of the world, people use other ways to get
 connected to the Internet. I for example use PPPoE.

PPPoE needs at least the netinstall image and an additional boot 
parameter. Afterwards it's quite simple to setup.

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: ntpd crashes.

2012-09-15 Thread Mauro

I think ntpd crashes are because my server lost time.
I have ntpd in two server, now I've seen that in one of these ntp
crashes and the time of the server is 1 hour forward.
That's why ntp crashes: server time goes 1 hour forward and ntp can't
resynchronize so it crashes.
Now I don't know why my server time goes 1 hour forward.
Hwclock --debug says that the time is correct, it is set on UTC, so
why sometimes it goes forward?
Perhaps a problem in the cmos battery?


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Finding man page related information on the WEB

2012-09-15 Thread Richard Owlett

1. I'm looking for something similar to a quick reference 
card one might have carried in a shirt pocket. I want 
something organized by function rather than alphabetically. 
What I found with Google were too verbose and organized 
alphabetically.


2. At the moment I do not have a functioning Linux system so 
I am getting man pages from 
http://manpages.debian.net/cgi-bin/man.cgi . That generally 
works fine. At the end of many pages is something similar to:


BEGIN QUOTE
SEE ALSO
   The  full  documentation  for cp is maintained as a 
Texinfo manual.  If
   the info and cp programs are properly installed at 
your site, the  com-

   mand

  info coreutils 'cp invocation'

   should give you access to the complete manual.
END QUOTE

How do I find the complete manual on the WEB?

TIA



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Re: rigmarole about debian and radeon

2012-09-15 Thread lavcina

first I want to thank you for your help Camaleón

Great, I just wanted to note that a separate /home is not required.

everyone has his believes and little inconsistencies;)

So first problem in KDE: HDMI output is not always enabled.
In what way breaks? Please describe what happens, what's what you see.


yes that's the case. The kde Monitor configuration tool sometimes does not 
recognize the HDMI device and just blank fields are displayed. My little VGA 
Monitor then becomes the main display and the only one stated in the kde tool.
The HDMI Monitor does not start  at all or becomes the extended virtual 
screen. On boot-up only the middle part of my big HDMI screen is used and the 
login screen blinks slowly   



First problem in GNOME: screen resolution is wrong.

Second problem in GNOME: Refresh rate is wrong.

Both issues (with KDE and GNOME) can be due to the static values you have 
defined at the xorg.conf file. What happens when you rename this file 
(e.g., to something like /etc/X11/xorg.conf.old) and boot the system?


I don't think there is something like a static config file. I'll show you the  
ls output of /etc/X11

ls -p  /etc/X11
app-defaults/  default-display-manager  rgb.txt  xinit/  Xreset 
Xresources/  Xsession.d/   XvMCConfig
cursors/   fonts/   Xxkb/Xreset.d/  Xsession
 
Xsession.options  Xwrapper.config


In Squeeze, the VGA 3D capabilities are not required unless you are using 
some kind of window compositing (such Compiz or KWin) which benefits from 
it but in any case, enabling direct rendering wouldn't do any harm while 
can speed up the desktop

direct rendering sounds good. After solving my display problems you are 
invited to show me how to enable it ...
3D is quite nice too but not really necessary now...

greetings
Boris


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Re: Installation

On Fri, 14 Sep 2012 22:49:18 +0200, lee wrote:

 Camaleón noela...@gmail.com writes:

 When it comes to an OS, installation process can be considered
 irrelevant. The real problems starts afterwards.
 
 It is irrelevant when you can't install the OS?

 No. It is irrelevant to consider the installation step as the source
 problem because the installation variable can be easily avoided by 1)
 buying a computer with pre-installed OS on it (Windows, MacOS, Ubuntu,
 FreeDOS...) or 2) having a friend that installs it for you (Windows,
 MacOS, Ubuntu, FreeDOS...).
 
 If you have these options ...  I don't buy pre-build computers, and even
 if I would, why would I buy another one rather than use the one I
 already have?  And are you going to pay for it?  I don't have a friend
 who could install it for me.
 
 In any case, it is not irrelevant whether the OS can be installed or
 not.  Who tries to install it doesn't matter.

(...)

Lee, one of my argumentation points was based precisely in this premise 
(untechie users do not install their OSes¹) so if you want to discuss a 
different thing based on your own experience because my user-case does 
not match with yours, fine... you can open a new thread and start a new 
debate there :-)

¹http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2012/09/msg00456.html

Greetings,

-- 
Camaleón


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Re: rigmarole about debian and radeon

2012-09-15 Thread lavcina

first I want to thank you for your help Camaleón

Great, I just wanted to note that a separate /home is not required.

everyone has his believes and little inconsistencies;)

So first problem in KDE: HDMI output is not always enabled.
In what way breaks? Please describe what happens, what's what you see.


yes that's the case. The kde Monitor configuration tool sometimes does not 
recognize the HDMI device and just blank fields are displayed. My little VGA 
Monitor then becomes the main display and the only one stated in the kde tool.
The HDMI Monitor does not start  at all or becomes the extended virtual 
screen. On boot-up only the middle part of my big HDMI screen is used and the 
login screen blinks slowly   



First problem in GNOME: screen resolution is wrong.

Second problem in GNOME: Refresh rate is wrong.

Both issues (with KDE and GNOME) can be due to the static values you have 
defined at the xorg.conf file. What happens when you rename this file 
(e.g., to something like /etc/X11/xorg.conf.old) and boot the system?


I don't think there is something like a static config file. I'll show you the  
ls output of /etc/X11

ls -p  /etc/X11
app-defaults/  default-display-manager  rgb.txt  xinit/  Xreset 
Xresources/  Xsession.d/   XvMCConfig
cursors/   fonts/   Xxkb/Xreset.d/  Xsession
 
Xsession.options  Xwrapper.config


In Squeeze, the VGA 3D capabilities are not required unless you are using 
some kind of window compositing (such Compiz or KWin) which benefits from 
it but in any case, enabling direct rendering wouldn't do any harm while 
can speed up the desktop

direct rendering sounds good. After solving my display problems you are 
invited to show me how to enable it ...
3D is quite nice too but not really necessary now...

greetings
Boris


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Re: rigmarole about debian and radeon

2012-09-15 Thread lavcina

first I want to thank you for your help Camaleón

Great, I just wanted to note that a separate /home is not required.

everyone has his believes and little inconsistencies;)

So first problem in KDE: HDMI output is not always enabled.
In what way breaks? Please describe what happens, what's what you see.


yes that's the case. The kde Monitor configuration tool sometimes does not 
recognize the HDMI device and just blank fields are displayed. My little VGA 
Monitor then becomes the main display and the only one stated in the kde tool.
The HDMI Monitor does not start  at all or becomes the extended virtual 
screen. On boot-up only the middle part of my big HDMI screen is used and the 
login screen blinks slowly   



First problem in GNOME: screen resolution is wrong.

Second problem in GNOME: Refresh rate is wrong.

Both issues (with KDE and GNOME) can be due to the static values you have 
defined at the xorg.conf file. What happens when you rename this file 
(e.g., to something like /etc/X11/xorg.conf.old) and boot the system?


I don't think there is something like a static config file. I'll show you the  
ls output of /etc/X11

ls -p  /etc/X11
app-defaults/  default-display-manager  rgb.txt  xinit/  Xreset 
Xresources/  Xsession.d/   XvMCConfig
cursors/   fonts/   Xxkb/Xreset.d/  Xsession
 
Xsession.options  Xwrapper.config


In Squeeze, the VGA 3D capabilities are not required unless you are using 
some kind of window compositing (such Compiz or KWin) which benefits from 
it but in any case, enabling direct rendering wouldn't do any harm while 
can speed up the desktop

direct rendering sounds good. After solving my display problems you are 
invited to show me how to enable it ...
3D is quite nice too but not really necessary now...

greetings
Boris



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Re: ntpd crashes.

On Sat, 15 Sep 2012 15:43:04 +0200, Mauro wrote:

 I think ntpd crashes are because my server lost time.

How can that be? If ntpd daemon is running, the server has to be synced 
and showing the right time. And in the event the time is too much skewed, 
ntpd shouldn't crash but left the time unsynced and registering the error 
at the logs (check if adding -x argument to ntpd helps here).

 I have ntpd in two server, now I've seen that in one of these ntp
 crashes and the time of the server is 1 hour forward. That's why ntp
 crashes: server time goes 1 hour forward and ntp can't resynchronize so
 it crashes.

IIRC, you mentioned that after the crash, ntpd could be restarted again 
without problems. If that's true, it means at the time ntpd daemon is 
started, the time of the server is still close to a good enough for ntpd 
can be launched without manual corrections.

 Now I don't know why my server time goes 1 hour forward. 

Becasue ntpd crashed?

 Hwclock --debug says that the time is correct, it is set on UTC, so why
 sometimes it goes forward?

Virtual machines do suffer from time sync issues so maybe a clusterized 
environment can also be affected somehow :-?

 Perhaps a problem in the cmos battery?

You can change the CMOS battery to see if that makes a difference but a 
death or bad battery would also have caused additional side effects such 
as motherboard settings restoring to defaults values which is not the 
case.

Greetings,

-- 
Camaleón


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Re: Installation

On Sat, 15 Sep 2012 04:36:36 -0700, Weaver wrote:

 Greetings,
 
 Newbie Installation of Debian Squeeze 6.0.5 i386 Netinstall disc.

IMO, newbies should go for CD or DVD installation disc instead.

 We have a fairly typical, hand-me-down box, P4, 2.8 GH, 2 GB of RAM,
 with two Debian installs already in situ on sda. The empty sdb, 120 GB
 ATA, will be used for the install:

(...)

  Partitioning: Entire disc selected. Separate /home selected.
 In my opinion, the third option of separate /usr, /var, /tmp/ /home here
 are wasted, as anybody that is going for that sort of option set are
 probably going to go for the more fine-grained approach the 'Expert
 Install' option caters to.

Hard disk partitioning is a delicated task that cannot be easily un-done 
afterwards without pain so having a fair default (separate /home) and 
additional options is fine with me, even for newbies.

  Computed Partitions.
 
 / = 10 GB – Bootable ext3 – I would probably go for a little more than
 this, because the newbie appetite wants to try out everything! koffice,
 libreoffice, calligra, gnomeoffice along with gnumeric and abiword to
 see what they look like and make a preferred selection. Likewise with
 every single video player, music player, browser and mail client.
 They'll pare everything down after the first six months when decisions
 are made, but they need plenty of room initially. I'd be looking at at
 least 12.5 GB. Worked out on the percentage of drive space, of course.

10 GiB is very scarce for today defaults. I would add more room here.

 /swap = 4.1 GB which fits nicely with the 2 GB of RAM. 

I will use a 3 GiB partition.

 /home =105.9 GB ext3.

IMO, too much space for /home. I would split the remaining space for /
home and /.

 I wondered at ext3 being the default, instead of ext4, but that may well
 be just the time slot that squeeze fitted into.

At the time Squeeze was released, ext3 was a sensible default, indeed.

 Finish Partitioning and Write to Disc
 
 At the top is an annotation which says:
  “This is an overview of your
 currently configured partitions and mountpoints. Select a partition to
 modify its settings (filesystem, mountpoint, etc.), a free space to
 create partitions, or a device to initiate its partition table.”
 
  This is beyond Double-Dutch to a newbie. If you said 'mountpoint' to
  your
 average newbie, he would be looking round for the horse. Likewise with
 'partition' (office furniture) and 'filesystem' (the technique required
 to get out of jail when they catch him, now that he has his hands on
 some 'real' hacker software).

You are being too much protective. A linux user (newbie or not) should 
know what these terms are or at least, have a bare idea of their meaning. 
 
 When you need to relay some information to somebody, you need to make an
 accurate assessment of the communication level of your audience.
 Otherwise, you simply don't communicate. If they aren't in front of you
 in order to do this, you assume no knowledge and operate from that
 'mountpoint'.

Hidding too much information can be as bad as displaying all the data.

 Here's an example – rough, not at all polished:

(...)

In my experience, people do not tend to read much at the installation 
screen neither this is a good place where to stay for too long. Too much 
text can make the user to doubt and the installation wizard cannot be a 
replacement for a good manual such the Relase Notes and Installation 
Guide.

 So, onward we go

(...)

 Popularity Contest = Yes. There's more explanation here than there is
 for partitioning. 

I would remove this option.

 Graphical desktop Environment = Yes

(...)

I will add a warning here about the time it can take to download the full 
DE so the installation process can be delayed noticeabily.

 There might, from a newbie perspective, need to be a short note at the
 proxy configure stage. What's a proxy? 

Come on... if they are currently browsing the web and getting e-mails in 
their inbox they should already know what a proxy is. 

 But from what I can see, the only major bulwark to a more substantial
 user uptake is the clarification of partitioning. The installer has now
 reached the stage where everything else is pretty much self-explanatory.

I will avoid a verbose installer.

Debian people has done a marvelous work with thteir documentation and 
this step (Partitioning) is very well explained there¹ (even it has a 
separate Appendix!).

¹http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch06s03.html.en#di-partition

Greetings,

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Re: Finding man page related information on the WEB

On Sat, 15 Sep 2012 09:15:58 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:

 1. I'm looking for something similar to a quick reference card one might
 have carried in a shirt pocket. 

Like this?

http://www.debian.org/doc/user-manuals#refcard

 I want something organized by function rather than alphabetically. What
 I found with Google were too verbose and organized alphabetically.
 
 2. At the moment I do not have a functioning Linux system so I am
 getting man pages from
 http://manpages.debian.net/cgi-bin/man.cgi . That generally works fine.

Well, man pages are a bit spartan and their main goal is not explaining 
concepts but arguments that you can append to the commands. 

 At the end of many pages is something similar to:
 
 BEGIN QUOTE
 SEE ALSO
 The  full  documentation  for cp is maintained as a
 Texinfo manual.  If
 the info and cp programs are properly installed at
 your site, the  com-
 mand
 
info coreutils 'cp invocation'
 
 should give you access to the complete manual.
 END QUOTE
 
 How do I find the complete manual on the WEB?

You mean the info pages? You have to run the suggested command as is, 
e.g.:

info coreutils 'cp invocation'

Greetings,

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Re: rigmarole about debian and radeon

On Sat, 15 Sep 2012 16:04:47 +0200, lavcina wrote:

So first problem in KDE: HDMI output is not always enabled. In what way
breaks? Please describe what happens, what's what you see.
 
 
 yes that's the case. The kde Monitor configuration tool sometimes does
 not recognize the HDMI device and just blank fields are displayed. My
 little VGA Monitor then becomes the main display and the only one stated
 in the kde tool. The HDMI Monitor does not start  at all or becomes the
 extended virtual screen. On boot-up only the middle part of my big HDMI
 screen is used and the login screen blinks slowly

- Can you enable the HDMI monitor manually by means of xrandr?

- Does the same happen with Squeeze stock kernel? If I recall correctly, 
you were using a kernel from backports.

- Does the same happen with an updated kernel (backports has now kernel 
3.2.23)

- Does the same happen with GNOME or just randomly with KDE?
 
First problem in GNOME: screen resolution is wrong.
 
Second problem in GNOME: Refresh rate is wrong.
 
Both issues (with KDE and GNOME) can be due to the static values you
have defined at the xorg.conf file. What happens when you rename this
file (e.g., to something like /etc/X11/xorg.conf.old) and boot the
system?
 
 
 I don't think there is something like a static config file. 

I'm neither that sure but testing this won't hurt (just remember to make 
a backup of the original xorg.conf file at first place).

 I'll show you the ls output of /etc/X11

(re-arranging the output)
 
 ls -p  /etc/X11
 app-defaults/  
 default-display-manager  
 rgb.txt  
 xinit/  
 Xreset
 Xresources/  
 Xsession.d/   
 XvMCConfig cursors/   
 fonts/ 
 X
 xkb/
 Xreset.d/  
 Xsession 
 Xsession.options 
 Xwrapper.config

Run locate xorg.conf and send here the output. And also run ls -l /usr/
share/X11/xorg.conf.d, just in case.

In Squeeze, the VGA 3D capabilities are not required unless you are
using some kind of window compositing (such Compiz or KWin) which
benefits from it but in any case, enabling direct rendering wouldn't do
any harm while can speed up the desktop
 
 direct rendering sounds good. After solving my display problems you are
 invited to show me how to enable it ... 3D is quite nice too but not
 really necessary now...

If you're interested, you can enable 3D by following these  
instructions ;-)

http://wiki.debian.org/AtiHowTo

Greetings,

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Re: FN Key to Enable/Disable Touchpad

On Fri, 14 Sep 2012 22:38:20 -0300, Dr Beco wrote:

 Hi there,

Hi, but please, avoid using html in your posts :-)

 The Touchpad key (FN + F3) that allows to enable/disable toutchpad is
 not working in Debian Wheezy.

Can you still manually toggle on/off?

#disable
synclient TouchpadOff=1

#enable
synclient TouchpadOff=0

 I have a DELL vostro v131, and KDE. Multimidia FN keys works nice, and
 enable/disable wifi and bluetooth also works great. I'm not sure about
 FN+F1 that changes monitor, but I'll find out soon. Bright and keyboard
 light also works great.
 
 Unfortunately, disable touchpad does not. It is a very important key for
 those who type a lot.
 
 Google found some discussions from 2010, but I saw no solution. Maybe it
 is just a bug I should report?

It seems this worked once (Squeeze) so it could be a regression. Yes, I 
would report it.

Greetings,

-- 
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Re: Storage server

2012-09-15 Thread Kelly Clowers

On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 1:36 AM, Bob Proulx b...@proulx.com wrote:

 Meanwhile I am running Sid on my main desktop machine.  I upgrade it
 daily.  I report bugs as I find them.  I am doing so specifically so I
 can test and find and report bugs.

Wow, impressive. I run unstable+experimental, but I think I have
reported maybe two or three bugs against it in the years I have
used it. I don't know if I even reported it when there where those
really nasty hard system lockups in X. Yes, I am a terrible person.

Cheers,
Kelly Clowers


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Removing deb-multimedia pkgs w/o removing everything

2012-09-15 Thread Ed Jabbour

I'd like to remove packages gotten from deb-multimedia and replace 
some from the Debian repos.  However, removing them will also remove a 
bunch  of libs and kde progs. E.g., apt-get remove libavcodec53 
yields:

0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 190 to remove and 1 not upgraded.

I'm not up to reinstalling 190 packages.  apt-get install that pkg 
just tells me that libavcodec53 is already the newest version.  Is 
there any way around this?  Is it possible to easily replace the deb-
multimedia pkgs with the Debian ones?


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Re: Finding man page related information on the WEB

2012-09-15 Thread Brian

On Sat 15 Sep 2012 at 09:15:58 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:

   info coreutils 'cp invocation'
 
should give you access to the complete manual.
 END QUOTE
 
 How do I find the complete manual on the WEB?

info coreutils in a search engine gave it me as the second hit.


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Re: Preseed for Wheezy - Multi-disk Alternative

On Fri, 14 Sep 2012 23:10:52 -0700, ray wrote:

 From what I have read, it looks like preseeding is only good for one
 disk.  So I am looking for alternatives.

(...)

Where did you get that impression? :-?

I think preseeding should be able to work with multiple devices and 
partitions, you will only have to use the right naming that points to the 
device (/dev/sda, /dev/sdb, and so on...) and maybe a bit of bash 
programming.

Greetings,

-- 
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Re: Removing deb-multimedia pkgs w/o removing everything

On Sb, 15 sep 12, 12:53:46, Ed Jabbour wrote:
 I'd like to remove packages gotten from deb-multimedia and replace 
 some from the Debian repos.  However, removing them will also remove a 
 bunch  of libs and kde progs. E.g., apt-get remove libavcodec53 
 yields:
 
 0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 190 to remove and 1 not upgraded.
 
 I'm not up to reinstalling 190 packages.  apt-get install that pkg 
 just tells me that libavcodec53 is already the newest version.  Is 
 there any way around this?  Is it possible to easily replace the deb-
 multimedia pkgs with the Debian ones?

It's possible. I've done it with aptitude by looking up each package 
from the list generated by the command below and selecting the Debian 
version instead of the deb-multimedia version.

aptitude search ~S~i~Omultimedia

With apt-get you would have to build up a big command line like

apt-get install package1/version1 package2/versions ... 

because there are lots of interdependencies which would get in the way.

You could also try pinning deb-multimedia to -1, and try an 'install', 
possibly with '-f'.

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: Finding man page related information on the WEB

2012-09-15 Thread Richard Owlett


Brian wrote:

On Sat 15 Sep 2012 at 09:15:58 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:


   info coreutils 'cp invocation'

should give you access to the complete manual.
END QUOTE

How do I find the complete manual on the WEB?


info coreutils in a search engine gave it me as the second hit.




DUH! Do I have to admit how many times I've given similar 
advice ;/


It is even formatted in a manner that provides what I was 
looking for when a asked for something like the pocket 
reference cards of old.


Thank you.



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Re: Dual-Monitor help

2012-09-15 Thread lee

Bob Proulx b...@proulx.com writes:

 I used FVWM since somewhere in the early 1990's specifically because
 it existed as a fully functional window manager that wasn't changing.
 It was stable over decades.  Think of the Ubuntu Unity transition, the
 KDE 3-4 transition, the GNOME 2-3 transition, all very disruptive
 thrashes for their users.  Using fvwm I missed all of those because
 fvwm has been stable throughout.  (I also missed the hpwm - mwm -
 CDE thrash too by using fvwm but fewer people today would remember
 those these days.)  FVWM is a good window manager and is actually the
 ancestor of the XFCE window manager.

Oh I know exactly what you mean :)  Things like fvwm and emacs have been
around (almost) since ever and they just work.  You learn them once and
that's it.  You come back to them anyway after trying others, so don't
waste your time and learn them right away.

 In any case, a stock fvwm with default configuration is quite usable.
 I have customized mine somewhat.

If you want something more fancy, you can try fvwm-crystal.  I wouldn't
recommend it, though, because it's too difficult to customise for your
needs with the thousands of little configuration files it puts all over
the place.  It seems to be meant to be used as is, and as is, it's not
what I want.  So I switched to fvwm and it's easy to customise.

 But most recently I have converted to using tiling window managers.  I
 am currently typing this in while running the 'awesome' window manager.

I think I tried it, being curious about tiling WMs.  It's a great idea I
couldn't get used to, I kept wanting to resize and move windows too
much.

 For email I use the 'mutt' mail user agent.  It is extremely fast.  It
 is keyboard driven so once again learning the keystrokes to drive it
 meant spending some time reading the manual and the online help.  I
 have customized mutt extensively.  Some of the default behavior is too
 dumbed down.  It asks for too many confirmations.  Basically like
 'rm -i' for everything.  It is annoying.  But highly customizable.
 And so I have customized it and I am extremely happy with it.

I totally agree :)  And you're definitely going to love gnus!  I've used
mutt for 15 years or so and never could find anything better --- until I
tried gnus.  Gnus is like the power version of mutt.  Give it a try,
it's part of emacs.  Use emacs 24.2.x, there have been important fixes
to gnus.

Mutt always felt like badly integrated with emacs.  It doesn't work so
well to run mutt in emacs, and using emacs as an external editor for
mutt isn't ideal, either.  Gnus removes this issue.  Gnus has features
I've been missing in mutt, and mutt will probably never have them.  Gnus
has features I never even dreamed of.

Gnus is slower than mutt, yet not so slow that I couldn't live with it.
It's not really slow.

 For the web I tend to use Firefox for most things.  I use the
 'firemacs' plugin for keyboard driving.

Have you tried dwb?  It uses vi-like key bindings and webkit.  I kept
pressing the wrong keys and went back to seamonkey.  Vi just isn't my
thing.

 for the growing 10% that requires fluff and glitter of massive
 Javascript and Flash I use Chromium with the 'vimium' extension.

Hm I tried Chromium a while ago and found it can't do anything at all.

 Each tab in Chromium is a separate process.  Therefore I can kill the
 tab and free up the memory consumed by those sites.

Cool, maybe I should try it again.  Seamonkey uses so much CPU and
memory that I'd really like to have a replacement.

 user I have customized the default screen command key from C-a (used
 by me in emacs all of the time) to C-z.

That was something that really annoyed me with screen.  I couldn't agree
with myself with key to use instead and left it at the default and
always greatly missed C-a.  Tmux uses C-b instead of C-a by default ---
somehow that is much better :)


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Re: Grub2 with multiple Debians

2012-09-15 Thread lee

Hendrik Boom hend...@topoi.pooq.com writes:

 On Fri, 14 Sep 2012 23:06:42 +0200, lee wrote:

 Hendrik Boom hend...@topoi.pooq.com writes:
 
 Of course, after I've made my copy (with slight changes to /etc/fstab)
 I have two nearly identical sets of partitions, so it may be tricky to
 tell them apart.  Is grub2 clever enough to figure it all out anyway? 
 And what data does it use to this end? (so I can make sure it's right!)
 
 Are you referring to grub figuring it out when booting or to grub
 figuring it out while it's being installed?  (In any case, I don't know
 any of the answers ...)

 Presumably while installing grub.  WHile booting, grub2 has precious few 
 decisions to make -- it's pretty well all scripted from the configuration 
 file.

It will have to figure out somehow which config to use.  I don't know
how it does that and assume that this information is stored when it's
installed in the MBR.  When you copy Linux version A to version A1 and
upgrade version A to version B and version B goes wrong, wouldn't grub
still look at it's configuration (its /boot directory) which is part of
version B rather than at its configuration in A1?  In such a case, I
think you really want grub to look at A1.

Can't we have a boot manager which is independent of the installed OSs?
Grub kinda does its own thing already, and if there was something like a
standardised API through which OSs could tell the boot manager how they
are to be booted, we would install the boot manager as the first thing
and only once.  Then we could install as many OSs (or at least Linux
versions that comply with the standard) as we like, each of them telling
the boot manager how to boot them.  You wouldn't have the problem you
have now anymore.

Doing it the other way round as we do now kinda doesn't make any sense
at all.


What if you install a tiny minimal Linux version only to get grub
installed and exclusively use that version of grub for booting?  The
Debian installer and the package management would have to be fine
without installing or updating grub, and you would have to boot into
your minimal version to update grub from there.  Is that possible?


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Re: Installation

2012-09-15 Thread lee

Weaver wea...@riseup.net writes:

  Computed Partitions.

 / = 10 GB – Bootable ext3 – I would probably go for a little more than
 this, because the newbie appetite wants to try out everything!

They don't know what packages to select in the first place.

 /swap = 4.1 GB which fits nicely with the 2 GB of RAM.

It fits the recommendation of the swap partition being about twice the
size of the physical RAM.  Following this recommendation means that the
less physical RAM you have, the sooner the system can go down because
critical processes can be killed.  Other than turning off
overcommitment, the only way to prevent this is manual
intervention. Therefore, make the swap partition large enough as to
sufficiently slow the system down to give time for manual intervention
and to have a chance of it being less likely that critical processes are
killed.  With only 2GB of RAM, you might need a lot more than only 4GB
of swap for that, and 6GB in total isn't really enough anyway.

But then, we already know that the D/i doesn't come up with good
partition layouts by itself.

 /home =105.9 GB ext3.

Users will have to change their partitioning later.  How do you propose
they do that when all they have to work with is this 120GB disk with the
swap and / and /home partition?  There isn't any room to change
partitioning.

 At the top is an annotation which says:
 
 “This is an overview of your currently configured partitions and
 mountpoints. Select a partition to modify its settings (filesystem,
 mountpoint, etc.), a free space to create partitions, or a device to
 initiate its partition table.”
 
  This is beyond Double-Dutch to a newbie. If you said 'mountpoint' to your
 average newbie, he would be looking round for the horse. Likewise with
 'partition' (office furniture) and 'filesystem' (the technique required
 to get out of jail when they catch him, now that he has his hands on some
 'real' hacker software).

Huh?  What are you talking about?

 When you need to relay some information to somebody, you need to make an
 accurate assessment of the communication level of your audience.
 Otherwise, you simply don't communicate. If they aren't in front of you in
 order to do this, you assume no knowledge and operate from that
 'mountpoint'.

No, you don't.  You communicate just as you would, and when you don't
understand each other, you ask questions and give answers and figure
things out.  In an extreme case, it may go like:

I'm using XXX to do something.
What is XXX?
It's a ZZZ.
What's a ZZZ?

... and I give them a link to an article on wikipedia or something where
they can look it all up.

Unfortunately, you can't look anything up while stuck in the D/i, and
that is what needs to be changed.

 Here's an example – rough, not at all polished:
 ~
  Partitioning
 Partitions are allocated areas on your hard drive, set by the installer,

What is a hard drive?  What do you mean by allocated?  Will my hard
drive be full when I make partitions because everything is allocated
then?  Maybe I better shouldn't make any partitions so my hard drive
doesn't get full.

What happens to the partitions when I quit the installer, do they get
unset?  What if I have several hard drives (like you actually do in this
example)?  Can I make a partition that goes over all my hard drives?  I
don't want many partitions, that's too complicated, and I want to use
all the hard drives I have, so how do I make a partition out of all of
them?  120GB isn't much, so I think it would be cool if I could use all
the hard drives I have.  That was so easy with windoze ... Can't I just
skip this step? I don't really want partitions, they are too
complicated.

 where different parts of your working operating system reside.

What is an operating system?  Do I have one that doesn't work, too?
What do you mean by parts of it reside there?  What about the other
parts that don't reside there, where do they go?  What do you mean by
different parts?  Do you mean I have different operating systems?  I'm
not sure, but I think I haven't installed an operating system yet, so
what's on these partitions now? I'm totally confused now ... :(

What about my data that I have under windoze?  Will it be lost?  Or
where is it?  I've never had partitions with windoze, why do I need that
now?

 The root (/) partition

Root?  I think I've heard root is a user?  Or what is root?  What does
/ mean?  Looks like a typo maybe ...  What is a partition?

You're probably talking about the root file system.  The root file
system is a file system and not a partition.

 is where all your programmes will be installed and

That's not true.  My programs are on my /home partition and some are
under /usr/local, some are under /opt.  See [1]:


,
| Chapter 3. The Root Filesystem
| 
| Purpose
| 
| The contents of the root

Re: Removing deb-multimedia pkgs w/o removing everything


On 09/15/12 21:38, Andrei POPESCU wrote:

On Sb, 15 sep 12, 12:53:46, Ed Jabbour wrote:

I'd like to remove packages gotten from deb-multimedia and replace
some from the Debian repos.  However, removing them will also remove a
bunch  of libs and kde progs. E.g., apt-get remove libavcodec53
yields:

0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 190 to remove and 1 not upgraded.

I'm not up to reinstalling 190 packages.  apt-get install that pkg
just tells me that libavcodec53 is already the newest version.  Is
there any way around this?  Is it possible to easily replace the deb-
multimedia pkgs with the Debian ones?


It's possible. I've done it with aptitude by looking up each package
from the list generated by the command below and selecting the Debian
version instead of the deb-multimedia version.

 aptitude search ~S~i~Omultimedia

With apt-get you would have to build up a big command line like

 apt-get install package1/version1 package2/versions ...

because there are lots of interdependencies which would get in the way.

You can find packages from deb-multimedia without aptitude as well. Like so

$ dpkg-query -Wf '${Package}\n' \
 | xargs -d'\n' sh -euf -c '
apt-cache showpkg $@ \
| sed -ne
s/^Package: //p;
/^Versions:/,/^Reverse Depends:/{
\_^[^[:space:]].*(/var/lib/dpkg/status)_p;
}; \
| sed -neN; /_deb.multimedia_/P;
' sh

Result of this command will be list of packages, which are installed 
(referenced
from /var/lig/dpkg/status) and that are available from deb-multimedia. 
If this package
version also available from other source (like squeeze repository), it 
_also_ will be

listed. Such extra packages may be filtered by editing 2nd sed's regexp.


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Re: Grub2 with multiple Debians

On Sat, 15 Sep 2012 13:40:16 +0400, Dmitriy Matrosov wrote:

 On 09/15/12 00:42, Hendrik Boom wrote:
 On Fri, 14 Sep 2012 23:25:03 +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:

 On Vi, 14 sep 12, 17:12:38, Hendrik Boom wrote:

 Of course, after I've made my copy (with slight changes to
 /etc/fstab) I have two nearly identical sets of partitions, so it may
 be tricky to tell them apart.  Is grub2 clever enough to figure it
 all out anyway? And what data does it use to this end? (so I can make
 sure it's right!)

 UUIDs? What failure mode(s) do you have in mind, because I can't think
 of any.

 It probably is os-prober that I mean.  The misconfiguration I have in
 mind is matching one system's /boot with another systems's /.  I've had
 it happen on a laptop sometime ago. and it sure messed up my upgrades. 
 I have no idea how it happened, but it has made me paranoid.

 -- hendrik




 Hi.
 
 Useless entries in grub.cfg (with non-matched kernel and root, e.g.
 kernel from stable and root from testing) or probably even no correct
 one - is normal for 30_os-prober and 10_linux scripts. I don't think,
 that there is a simply way to fix them.

You'd think that os-prober could use the entries in /etc/fstab to 
identify the /boot that goes with a particular root partition.

(That assumes, or course, that /etc is in the root partition and not 
separately mounted.  But if it was separately mounted, there would be no 
way for it to read /etc/fstab in order to find out what to mount for /
etc.) 

-- hendrik


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Re: Grub2 with multiple Debians

On Sat, 15 Sep 2012 02:19:11 +, Hendrik Boom wrote:

 On Fri, 14 Sep 2012 22:37:28 +0100, Joe wrote:
 
 On Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:42:21 + (UTC)
 Hendrik Boom hend...@topoi.pooq.com wrote:
 
 On Fri, 14 Sep 2012 23:25:03 +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
 
  On Vi, 14 sep 12, 17:12:38, Hendrik Boom wrote:
  
  Of course, after I've made my copy (with slight changes to
  /etc/fstab) I have two nearly identical sets of partitions, so it
  may be tricky to tell them apart.  Is grub2 clever enough to figure
  it all out anyway? And what data does it use to this end? (so I can
  make sure it's right!)
  
  UUIDs? What failure mode(s) do you have in mind, because I can't
  think of any.
 
 It probably is os-prober that I mean.  The misconfiguration I have in
 mind is matching one system's /boot with another systems's /.  I've
 had it happen on a laptop sometime ago. and it sure messed up my
 upgrades. I have no idea how it happened, but it has made me paranoid.
 
 
 The problem is that update-grub rewrites /boot/grub/grub.cfg. It may be
 possible to specify roots and boots in /etc/grub.d/ (I do use a
 separate /boot, but I've never needed to try this) or alternatively it
 is perfectly possible to edit grub.cfg, but you need to remember to do
 so each time update-grub is run, before rebooting. More than once, I've
 known versions of grub not deal correctly with a separate /boot, so
 I've had to do this until the bug was fixed.
 
 It might be that bug that fouled up my laptop.  Or I might have done it
 myself at some point.  Anyway, I've become paranoid about such things.
 If the bug has been fixed, well, that'll be one less thing to go wrong
 when I upgrade.
 
 Thanks for telling me that there was a bug, and that it was fixed.

What was the actual bug, by the way -- failure to read /etc/fstab 
properly, which should make it clear which /boot to use?

-- hendrik


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Re: Grub2 with multiple Debians


On 09/15/12 18:23, lee wrote:


Can't we have a boot manager which is independent of the installed OSs?
Grub kinda does its own thing already, and if there was something like a
standardised API through which OSs could tell the boot manager how they
are to be booted, we would install the boot manager as the first thing
and only once.  Then we could install as many OSs (or at least Linux
versions that comply with the standard) as we like, each of them telling
the boot manager how to boot them.  You wouldn't have the problem you
have now anymore.

All of this can be implemented with grub (grub2 at least). And one of the
approaches, is to have (main) grub config, which loads OS-specific ones. The
main grub config should only know where to find OS-specific ones and should
_not_ be updated by update-grub from any OS. The os-specific ones, on the
other hand, should be updated by update-grub from corresponding OS. The
main config must be updated either manually, or by some other method (using
standardized API, as you said). Anyway, this is exactly what described in
article i mention earlier. And may be it's a bit complicated, but it works.


What if you install a tiny minimal Linux version only to get grub
installed and exclusively use that version of grub for booting?  The
Debian installer and the package management would have to be fine
without installing or updating grub, and you would have to boot into
your minimal version to update grub from there.  Is that possible?



Grub from this minimal linux should somehow figure out which OS root
corresponds to which kernel, or where to find /boot corresponding to some
OS. Default grub2 scripts can't do this (at the time, when i have checked).


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Re: Grub2 with multiple Debians

On Sat, 15 Sep 2012 13:39:29 +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:

 On Sb, 15 sep 12, 13:40:16, Dmitriy Matrosov wrote:
 
 Note, that suggested above approach requires one edited by hand
 grub,cfg along with automatically generated others.
 
 I've solved this by having one grub in the MBR and installing each grub
 in the corresponding first sector of the partition. Not recommended by
 grub, but it works.

So each system-specific grub would. presumably, boot just that system.
And what would the MBR grub do?  Chainload a boot-time choice the others?

And how would these be protected against the script that updates the grub 
configuration when the package-manager installs a new kernel during a 
routine upgrade?

 
 Kind regards,
 Andrei

-- hendrik


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Re: Grub2 with multiple Debians


On 09/15/12 22:52, Hendrik Boom wrote:

On Sat, 15 Sep 2012 13:40:16 +0400, Dmitriy Matrosov wrote:


On 09/15/12 00:42, Hendrik Boom wrote:

On Fri, 14 Sep 2012 23:25:03 +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:


On Vi, 14 sep 12, 17:12:38, Hendrik Boom wrote:


Of course, after I've made my copy (with slight changes to
/etc/fstab) I have two nearly identical sets of partitions, so it may
be tricky to tell them apart.  Is grub2 clever enough to figure it
all out anyway? And what data does it use to this end? (so I can make
sure it's right!)


UUIDs? What failure mode(s) do you have in mind, because I can't think
of any.


It probably is os-prober that I mean.  The misconfiguration I have in
mind is matching one system's /boot with another systems's /.  I've had
it happen on a laptop sometime ago. and it sure messed up my upgrades.
I have no idea how it happened, but it has made me paranoid.

-- hendrik




Hi.

Useless entries in grub.cfg (with non-matched kernel and root, e.g.
kernel from stable and root from testing) or probably even no correct
one - is normal for 30_os-prober and 10_linux scripts. I don't think,
that there is a simply way to fix them.


You'd think that os-prober could use the entries in /etc/fstab to
identify the /boot that goes with a particular root partition.


May be this will work. May be not. But there will be many problems with
this, and rewriting os-prober (instead just some or several configs) is not
the last of them (i mean, you will have problems during grub update if your
patches have not yet accepted upstream). And if you want my opinion, i don't
think this will work. First, there is no guarantee, that corresponding /boot
will be mentioned in fstab. Second, /boot may be common for all 
distributions,

and the problem will be to identify correct kernel. And, third, you should
not just figure out correct kernel for current OS, but for all others as 
well.



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Re: Grub2 with multiple Debians

On Sat, 15 Sep 2012 02:19:11 +, Hendrik Boom wrote:

 On Fri, 14 Sep 2012 22:37:28 +0100, Joe wrote:
 
 On Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:42:21 + (UTC)
 Hendrik Boom hend...@topoi.pooq.com wrote:
 
 On Fri, 14 Sep 2012 23:25:03 +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
 
  On Vi, 14 sep 12, 17:12:38, Hendrik Boom wrote:
  
  Of course, after I've made my copy (with slight changes to
  /etc/fstab) I have two nearly identical sets of partitions, so it
  may be tricky to tell them apart.  Is grub2 clever enough to figure
  it all out anyway? And what data does it use to this end? (so I can
  make sure it's right!)
  
  UUIDs? What failure mode(s) do you have in mind, because I can't
  think of any.
 
 It probably is os-prober that I mean.  The misconfiguration I have in
 mind is matching one system's /boot with another systems's /.  I've
 had it happen on a laptop sometime ago. and it sure messed up my
 upgrades. I have no idea how it happened, but it has made me paranoid.
 
 
 The problem is that update-grub rewrites /boot/grub/grub.cfg. It may be
 possible to specify roots and boots in /etc/grub.d/ (I do use a
 separate /boot, but I've never needed to try this) or alternatively it
 is perfectly possible to edit grub.cfg, but you need to remember to do
 so each time update-grub is run, before rebooting. More than once, I've
 known versions of grub not deal correctly with a separate /boot, so
 I've had to do this until the bug was fixed.
 
 It might be that bug that fouled up my laptop.  Or I might have done it
 myself at some point.  Anyway, I've become paranoid about such things.
 If the bug has been fixed, well, that'll be one less thing to go wrong
 when I upgrade.
 
 Thanks for telling me that there was a bug, and that it was fixed.

Actually, it seems it may be bug #612407 -- the symptoms are almost 
exactly what happened on my laptop, with the exception that I had the 
problem with sqeeze/wheezy instead of lenny/squeeze: http://
bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=612407

If they've fixed the bug as you say, this is presumably another one, 
unless they've fixed it but failed to mark it as fixed.

In any case, this tells me that I should go ahead with my upgrade plans, 
but should watch any automatically updated grub configuration files like 
a hawk, diffing them against previous versions, and the like.

Also, looking around the grub buglog, it looks as if booting several 
different / partitions from one /boot partition is perfectly legal.  But 
I don't know if the Debian package manager is cool with that -- one 
partition being upgraded independently by two package managers?  It seems 
they might disagree about when files need to be removed.

It's copnceivable that I made a mistake on my laptop with /etc/fstab and 
inadvertently did specify the same /boot for the different systems.  Or 
that it happened during the automatic upgrade of /fstabs from /dev/sd* 
notation to UUID notation.  But the number of comments I've seen about os-
prober getting things wrong makes me suspect that the trouble could arise 
even without a faulty /etc/fstab.  I just don't know any more.  What was 
it the Defence Against the Dark Arts master kept saying all the time?  
Something like Extreme Vigilance?  At least I know what to beware of 
now.

-- hendrik


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Re: Grub2 with multiple Debians

On Fri, 14 Sep 2012 23:25:03 +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:

 UUIDs? What failure mode(s) do you have in mind, because I can't think
 of any.

When looking at /etc/fstab or grub configuration files:

Alas!  UUIDs are so unmnemonic!

-- hendrik



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Re: Installation

2012-09-15 Thread Weaver


On Sat, September 15, 2012 4:51 am, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
 On Sat, 2012-09-15 at 04:36 -0700, Weaver wrote:
 Network is detected automagically through dhcp.

 Here in the German Ruhrgebiet most people I know use a router, but
 perhaps in other parts of the world, people use other ways to get
 connected to the Internet. I for example use PPPoE.

Yes, the annotations would have to fork off from network findings in the
same way the rest of the installer does.

 Hostname: Debian

 What is a hostname ;)? I like to be able to name the host, but perhaps
 this should move to the experts install.

Yes.
If it can't be understood by a newbie installer, it probably should.
99% of newbies are not going to be operating through a multi-machine network.
Regards,

Weaver
-- 
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 -- Thomas Paine



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Re: Installation

2012-09-15 Thread Weaver


On Sat, September 15, 2012 5:33 am, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
 On Sb, 15 sep 12, 04:36:36, Weaver wrote:

  Partitioning: Entire disc selected. Separate /home selected.
 In my opinion, the third option of separate /usr, /var, /tmp/ /home here
 are wasted, as anybody that is going for that sort of option set are
 probably going to go for the more fine-grained approach the 'Expert
 Install' option caters to.

 Agreed. How about a wishlist bug against d-i?

Yes, but at this stage, I'm just looking for opinions.
I don't want to waste developer's time with my imperfections.
People can kill me here before I do any damage.

  Computed Partitions.

 / = 10 GB – Bootable ext3 – I would probably go for a little more than
 this, because the newbie appetite wants to try out everything! koffice,
 libreoffice, calligra, gnomeoffice along with gnumeric and abiword to
 see
 what they look like and make a preferred selection. Likewise with every
 single video player, music player, browser and mail client. They'll pare
 everything down after the first six months when decisions are made, but
 they need plenty of room initially. I'd be looking at at least 12.5 GB.
 Worked out on the percentage of drive space, of course.

 Is this a guess or did you actually calculate the installed size?

Neither.
It's from personal experience.
The other two installs are this one I'm posting on = 2778 installed
packages, which was about 1000 more than that before I pared it down - I
have a lot of font packages and editors for writing.
And a GUI-less system of just over 800 packages.

I remember I wanted to check out everything. Find out which was best.
Resentment at being tied to Gnome. Annoyed with segmentation faults with
KDE. Recognising that, to a large extent, XFCE was just a GUI for Gnome.
Now for a graphically-based system I have a selection from all of them,
usually tied together with Enlightenment. Actually, with LXDE with Openbox
over the top and fbpanel, at present

 /swap = 4.1 GB which fits nicely with the 2 GB of RAM.
 /home =105.9 GB ext3.

 I wondered at ext3 being the default, instead of ext4, but that may well
 be just the time slot that squeeze fitted into.

 This and the fact that Debian people are quite conservative when
 switching defaults. I hope it is (going to be) changed for wheezy,
 didn't check though.

 [...]

 Here's an example – rough, not at all polished:
 ~
  Partitioning
 Partitions are allocated areas on your hard drive, set by the installer,
 where different parts of your working operating system reside.

 I'd remove set by the installer since the user might have done that.

 The root (/) partition is where all your programmes will be installed
 and
 must be bootable so that your operating system is accessible after
 installation.

 Ok.

 The swap partition is an area on your hard drive where process exchange
 takes place when your system is working. It is the equivalent of
 'Virtual
 Memory'.

 Still very technical, and why the reference to Virtual Memory?

Because they have probably come from a Windows environment and may
identify with that concept.

Let me
 take a shot:

 The swap partition is a scratch area on your hard drive used by the
 operating system.

Yes, but they may wonder what 'a scratch area' is.


 The home (/home) partition is where all your personal and professional
 data will be kept.

 Ok.

 By selecting any of these – arrow keys and 'enter', you can adjust the
 size of them to suit your particular needs. This automatic partitioning
 would probably be most suitable for initial use, however you will still
 be
 able to adjust their size in the future if needed.
 ~~

 Mmm, the last sentence seems to imply that re-partitioning is easy,
 which it is not, especially in such a setup. As said before, I'd rather
 go for all in one partition, which solves the / size problem above and
 won't require repartitioning later.

Yes, it's just a way of making the original annotation more accessible.


 There is absolutely no need to get into $ cat /etc/fstab at this point
 in
 time. Or separate /boot partitions, or any other complexity. They'll get
 to that later. What is required now is to convey the simplest of
 pictures,
 but still convey the required information and only the required
 information. This provides information, orientation and a jumping off
 point for further advancement, without the confusion born of complexity.

 Agreed.

 So, onward we go

 [...]

 There might, from a newbie perspective, need to be a short note at the
 proxy configure stage. What's a proxy?

 I'd go for an addition like:

 If you don't know what a proxy is just leave this blank.

Yep!
Regards,

Weaver
-- 
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 -- Thomas Paine



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Re: Installation

2012-09-15 Thread Weaver


On Sat, September 15, 2012 5:37 am, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
 On Sb, 15 sep 12, 13:51:50, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
 On Sat, 2012-09-15 at 04:36 -0700, Weaver wrote:
  Network is detected automagically through dhcp.

 Here in the German Ruhrgebiet most people I know use a router, but
 perhaps in other parts of the world, people use other ways to get
 connected to the Internet. I for example use PPPoE.

 PPPoE needs at least the netinstall image and an additional boot
 parameter. Afterwards it's quite simple to setup.

Yes, I can't recall what's required here.
Or a complete memory of ppp.config requirement for a dial-up, but the same
principle could be adapted for each environment.
Regards,

Weaver
-- 
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 -- Thomas Paine



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Re: Storage server

2012-09-15 Thread Stan Hoeppner

On 9/15/2012 3:36 AM, Bob Proulx wrote:

 But in the future when when Debian Jessie is being released I am going
 to be reading then on the mailing list about how old and bad Linux 3.2
 is and how it should not be used because it is too old.

So what you're saying here is that Jessie should be released with the
2.6.32 kernel of Squeeze because we already know how bad it is.  Thus
the Jessie kernel won't go from good to bad causing widespread
depression and suicide amongst Debian users.

-- 
Stan


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Re: Grub2 with multiple Debians

On Sb, 15 sep 12, 19:03:28, Hendrik Boom wrote:
 On Sat, 15 Sep 2012 13:39:29 +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
  
  I've solved this by having one grub in the MBR and installing each grub
  in the corresponding first sector of the partition. Not recommended by
  grub, but it works.
 
 So each system-specific grub would. presumably, boot just that system.
 And what would the MBR grub do?  Chainload a boot-time choice the others?

Yes.
 
 And how would these be protected against the script that updates the grub 
 configuration when the package-manager installs a new kernel during a 
 routine upgrade?

'dpkg-reconfigure grub-pc' allows you to specify where grub will be 
installed/updated on upgrades. The MBR grub is updated by hand if 
needed. I put the squeeze grub there to reduce this to a minimum.

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: Grub2 with multiple Debians

On Sb, 15 sep 12, 18:52:27, Hendrik Boom wrote:
 
 (That assumes, or course, that /etc is in the root partition and not 
 separately mounted.  But if it was separately mounted, there would be no 
 way for it to read /etc/fstab in order to find out what to mount for /
 etc.) 

AFAIK /etc is one of the very few folders that has to be on /

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: Installation

On Sb, 15 sep 12, 13:18:38, Weaver wrote:
 
 On Sat, September 15, 2012 4:51 am, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
 
  What is a hostname ;)? I like to be able to name the host, but perhaps
  this should move to the experts install.
 
 Yes.
 If it can't be understood by a newbie installer, it probably should.
 99% of newbies are not going to be operating through a multi-machine network.

The home gateways, smartphones, tablets, netbooks, laptops and Internet 
TVs don't count?

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: Installation