RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Email Marketing
Ok let me resume: 1.) it's a non-tecnical person 2.) his task is to sell more 3.) he don't know what means being flooded with marketing mails because you filter them out all of this trash. Solution: disable spam filtering for this guy (or bether the entire marketing dept) Say nothing to anyone until they ask you. Then explain that this are the same mails he want to send out in the future. Markus ;-) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy Ognenoff Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 3:37 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Declude.JunkMail] Email Marketing I need some help with a request I got yesterday from our marketing dept. I walk into work yesterday to find that marketing, in their infinite wisdom, have decided to start doing email marketing. Of course they didn't involve any technical people until I stumbled across the rumor of such activity. They want to use various data sources (like those bowls you drop your business card into at a restaurant to win a free lunch) to send out announcements, promotions, special offers etc. I quickly told them that before they do anything like that they need to sit down and listen to what some of the ramifications of doing this are. So here is my dilemma: These people are VERY non-technical and my greatest worry as the mail admin is that some bright marketing person is going to sit down with Outlook, plug a bunch of customer names into their address book and start sending out spam. I know we fight external spammers but how do you combat the possibility of one of your users doing so? I know the benefits of a well-run email marketing campaign, but as we all know, the difference between that and SPAM is a very thin line. For example, I have no idea if we state anywhere that by dropping your business card in the bowl you agree to receive commercial messages from us (and therefore I won't let them use that as a source for this.) I know on our web site we ask permission but we have never done anything with these lists of customers before and frankly I don't know the best way to proceed with this. How would you go about explaining the technical ramifications of proceeding with email marketing (ie: potentially getting blacklisted, setting up a good double opt-in/opt-out mechanism, etc.) to a set of users that won't understand it if you tell them that you can't just sit down and start sending away. Thanks for the help in advance! Andy Ognenoff Online Systems Administrator Direct: (262)250-2860 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Cousins Submarines, Inc. http://www.cousinssubs.com --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Email Marketing
So here is my dilemma: These people are VERY non-technical and my greatest worry as the mail admin is that some bright marketing person is going to sit down with Outlook, plug a bunch of customer names into their address book and start sending out spam. I know we fight external spammers but how do you combat the possibility of one of your users doing so? The first thing I would do is check to see if your Internet provider has a TOS that prohibits spamming (which is very likely). If so, you may want to pass that information on to the marketing department. If they know that their actions could risk the company losing Internet access even temporarily, they will likely think twice about it. -Scott --- Declude JunkMail: The advanced anti-spam solution for IMail mailservers. Declude Virus: Catches known viruses and is the leader in mailserver vulnerability detection. Find out what you've been missing: Ask about our free 30-day evaluation. --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Email Marketing
The first thing I would do is check to see if your Internet provider has a TOS that prohibits spamming (which is very likely). If so, you may want to pass that information on to the marketing department. If they know that their actions could risk the company losing Internet access even temporarily, they will likely think twice about it. Understood...but what they want to do is not what I would classify as spam if it's done correctly. Gathering email addresses from people who opt-in to receive special offers or news and sending out those special offers to only those people wouldn't be spam. My question was really how do I explain what the technical aspects of running a legit email marketing campaign involve and perhaps helping me compile a list of those technical aspects so I don't accidentally leave any out. Have no fear...if I can't make them understand the difference between a legit email campaign and SPAM they won't be doing it at all. :) - Andy --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Email Marketing
Andy, Harvesting from business cards dropped in a fish bowl is not a best practice, even if they feel justified in doing so. Address collection should be done by a method that follows MAPS standards, and E-mail campaigns need to follow their same best standards as well. Even if you do so, you will likely still find yourselves vulnerable to places like SpamCop. Basic Mailing List Management Guidelines for Preventing Abuse http://www.mail-abuse.org/manage.html Matt Andy Ognenoff wrote: The first thing I would do is check to see if your Internet provider has a TOS that prohibits spamming (which is very likely). If so, you may want to pass that information on to the marketing department. If they know that their actions could risk the company losing Internet access even temporarily, they will likely think twice about it. Understood...but what they want to do is not what I would classify as spam if it's done correctly. Gathering email addresses from people who opt-in to receive special offers or news and sending out those special offers to only those people wouldn't be spam. My question was really how do I explain what the technical aspects of running a legit email marketing campaign involve and perhaps helping me compile a list of those technical aspects so I don't accidentally leave any out. Have no fear...if I can't make them understand the difference between a legit email campaign and SPAM they won't be doing it at all. :) - Andy --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type "unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail". The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. -- = MailPure custom filters for Declude JunkMail Pro. http://www.mailpure.com/software/ =
Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Email Marketing
Hi Andy- I get this question for my customers a couple of times a month. Of course, we prohibit such activity. We usually send them to one of the list houses that specialize in this kind of thing. Microsoft's B-Central lets you create a list and mail to it, and there are many others that are cheaper. Moving this activity off your mail server and onto a specialist's limits - but does not eliminate - the likelihood that you will get on a blacklist. Some aggressive folks will blacklist anything relating to the sending domain regardless of its actual source. Also, be sure to install and use Hijack. Configure it to prevent the kind of freelance activity you are worried about. -Dave Doherty Skywaves, Inc. --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Email Marketing
I know this suggestion was kind of tongue-in-cheek, but we did exactly this for one of our Marketing wonderboys. After 3 days, just three days, he came into my office waving his white handkerchief and begging for mercy. The message was sent better than any discussion could have, technical or not. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Markus Gufler Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 10:05 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Email Marketing Ok let me resume: 1.) it's a non-tecnical person 2.) his task is to sell more 3.) he don't know what means being flooded with marketing mails because you filter them out all of this trash. Solution: disable spam filtering for this guy (or bether the entire marketing dept) Say nothing to anyone until they ask you. Then explain that this are the same mails he want to send out in the future. Markus ;-) --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Email Marketing
Basic Mailing List Management Guidelines for Preventing Abuse http://www.mail-abuse.org/manage.html Thanks Matt...that was exactly what I was looking for. Would a place like EmailLabs (http://www.emaillabs.com) be a good place to investigate or does anyone else have the name of a good (read best-practice-following) list hosting service? - Andy --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Email Marketing
Listservs that service small companies are commonly very dirty and have RBL issues, bCentral for instance is terrible. As far as other companies go, you need to make sure that they don't also operate under other identities, or service dirty lists as a practice. Experian/exactis.com, MindShareDesign.com/PostMasterGeneral.com/pm0.com/mb00.com/ms00.net/mg00.net/etc., and BriteTrusted.com/BriteCast.com all have a mix of legit "best-practices" senders as well as stuff that is collected through third parties and what we would generally consider to be spam, despite their own claimed policies. EmailLabs has not come up on my radar screen as of yet, but a great way to research them would be to check the abuse newsgroups, but you need to weed out the complaints from people that consider all advertising to be spam, nothing comes up absolutely clean. http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=enlr=ie=ISO-8859-1scoring=dq=EmailLabs+group%3A*abuse*btnG=Google+Search Also search for the domains that they use, which you should be able to find. Matt Andy Ognenoff wrote: Basic Mailing List Management Guidelines for Preventing Abuse http://www.mail-abuse.org/manage.html Thanks Matt...that was exactly what I was looking for. Would a place like EmailLabs (http://www.emaillabs.com) be a good place to investigate or does anyone else have the name of a good (read best-practice-following) list hosting service? - Andy --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type "unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail". The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. -- = MailPure custom filters for Declude JunkMail Pro. http://www.mailpure.com/software/ =
