[libreoffice-design] LO, TDF - rollup design

[Kálmán „KAMI” Szalai]

Hi!

For a rollup design I would like use the LO, TDF text and icon graphic.
The size of medium is 85(W)x200(H), what is the best arrange for it? I
wanted to increase the site of icon and put on to LibreOffice text but I
don't know if it hurt the branding guide. It is impossible to keep the
current layout on portait page orientation. I plan to use vector elemnts
for backround, the LibreOffice icon and the LO, TDF text. DO you have
advice for me, or do we have a design for this layout?
-- 

KAMI911Best regards,

Kálmán „KAMI” Szalai | 神 | kami911 [at] gmail [dot] com


My favorite projects:

OxygenOffice Professional  - office suite - for everybody 
| Magyarul  - In Hungarian

Blog  | Support  

Follow me , if you can 


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[libreoffice-design] Motif draft

[Daniel Merker]

Hi,

Finally registered with the wiki and added my file for the motif discussion:

http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Alternate_Logo.svg

-Daniel Merker
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Re: [libreoffice-design] "Challenge Continues"-Banner

[Bernhard Dippold]

Tobias Bernard schrieb:

ok, i've reworked the banner, trying to consider all your suggestions,
but i didn't understand what's wrong with the spacing (point one in the
guidelines)


The distance of the logo (in your case the symbol at the bottom of the 
banner) to every graphical element outside the logo shouldn't be less 
than half the width of the symbol.


As the symbol reached nearly the borders of the banner, elements put 
beside the banner could have compromised the symbol - reducing the 
visual impression we want to achieve with our logo and it's elements.


But in your new version (I add the link again: 
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Libo-challengecontinues-banner-by-tobias.png) 
this is much better! Only the vertical distance especially to the 
"Donate now!" badge is a bit small.




if you have futher suggestions, just tell me ;)


The word cloud is much easier to read :-)

Unfortunately this reduces the impression of a word cloud a bit. Did you 
try to have a bit more space between the single words?


I don't know, if this works and stays readable - perhaps with more 
different font sizes, using green and large font for one word only, some 
smaller and green, some larger and grey?


Just an idea - might be totally wrong...

Best regards

Bernhard



ps: why does the the svg file have such an ugly preview?


The preview is better than none as we had it on the OOo wiki ;-)

But honestly I don't know. Some SVG images are rendered well, Some other 
have problems with text and underlying graphics, some don't show the SVG 
at all. Turning the text into path helps sometimes, but this is no 
option for text we probably want to modify / translate  later on.


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Re: [libreoffice-design] ligatures in the logo [was: LibO logo]

[Bernhard Dippold]

Hi Ricardo, *

RGB ES schrieb:

I can see a problem on this discussion: a sans serif "i" should not
have, ehr, serifs...


You're right. But many of the professional font contain the "fi" 
ligature (as Unicode character U+FB03) with an extended "f" bar to the "i".



I mean, the i on a sans serif font should NOT have horizontal lines,
and because of that it cannot be combined with the f. A sans serif
ligature between two f is Ok but it is wrong between an f and an i:
the only point to consider here is to proper align the f's top curve
with the dot. But f and i on a sans serif font must be physically
separated.


This would mean to shorten the bar of the second "f", as with normal 
width bar the distance to the "i" is too small.


Perhaps we could give it a try.


Only on serif fonts it is ok to link the f and the i (and to make the
f "grab" the dot from the i), but not on sans serif or grotesque
fonts.


This would reduce the number of ligatures by far - perhaps this is 
right, didn't get into this matter so deep...


Best regards

Bernhard

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Re: [libreoffice-design] "Challenge Continues"-Banner

[Tobias Bernard]

ok, i've reworked the banner, trying to consider all your suggestions,
but i didn't understand what's wrong with the spacing (point one in the
guidelines)

if you have futher suggestions, just tell me ;)


Am Samstag, den 26.02.2011, 23:22 +0100 schrieb Bernhard Dippold:
> Hi Tobias, all
> 
> Tobias Bernard schrieb:
> > hi
> >
> > i don't know if we have enough fundraising banners yet,
> 
> Of course not!
> 
> But we need more different formats (as mentioned on the wiki page).
> 
> > but here's one
> > more;)
> 
> Thank you for your work!
> >
> > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Libo-challengecontinues-banner-by-tobias.png
> > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Libo-banner-challenge-continues.svg
> 
> I like the general impression and the color language of green and grey - 
> this perfectly fits to our branding in a way that doesn't mimic our website.
> 
> But there are some points I have to comment:
> 
> As the banner should be used on external sites, we  should remove the 
> subline "The Document Foundation" form the logo. This subline should be 
> reserved for our product and community, the websites 
> www.documentfoundation.org and www.libreoffice.org and officially 
> announced spokespeople.
> 
> The word cloud is a great idea - I like it very much. But as the size of 
> the words differ not very much, it is hard to get any information from 
> that part. You have to follow the line of words - a bit tricky for the 
> average visitor of a website. The green words stand out quite well, but 
> "Help" and "Office" wont tell them not very much.
> 
> Perhaps we could try to reduce the size of some words and emphasize 
> "create" (and "best", perhaps "office suite" too) by relative size and / 
> or color.
> 
> With regards to the symbol I'd ask you to have a look at the branding 
> guidelines:
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Branding#Guidelines_and_Best_Practices
> 
> (especially the first and fifth entry about whitespace and elements 
> inside the symbol).
> 
> But as I already mentioned: The general impression is great. It might 
> become the basis for a long-term banner to be used by marketing and web 
> representation.
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Bernhard
> >
> > greetings
> > tobias
> >
> > ps: why does the the svg file have such an ugly preview?
> >
> >
> 
> 



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Re: [libreoffice-design] ligatures in the logo [was: LibO logo]

[RGB ES]

I can see a problem on this discussion: a sans serif "i" should not
have, ehr, serifs...
I mean, the i on a sans serif font should NOT have horizontal lines,
and because of that it cannot be combined with the f. A sans serif
ligature between two f is Ok but it is wrong between an f and an i:
the only point to consider here is to proper align the f's top curve
with the dot. But f and i on a sans serif font must be physically
separated.
Only on serif fonts it is ok to link the f and the i (and to make the
f "grab" the dot from the i), but not on sans serif or grotesque
fonts.
Just my 2¢
Cheers
Ricardo

2011/2/26 Bernhard Dippold :
> Hi Joey, Christoph, all,
>
> Christoph, I'll reply to your mail later (I don't think we're far away from
> each other), here just a short remark to Joey...
>
> Johannes Bausch schrieb:
>>
>> Hey,
>>
>> 2011/2/25 Bernhard Dippold
>>
>>> sorry, but I might misinterpret your mail, because I don't remember whom
>>> you are citing (and you don't mention the author):
>>>
>> Sorry for that. For me the whole discussion is a single thread in gmail.
>> I'll remember to add the names in the future when necessary. I was quoting
>> Martin.
>
> Thanks.
>
> At home my mail client shows the mails threaded, so it is not a problem to
> go back to the mail you cite. At work the webmail sorts all the mails by
> date - nearly no chance to find the original posting...
>>
>> I have done two alternative ligatures, maybe they are better suited for
>> the
>> font, since they're not so obtrusive. You can see them here:
>> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:Joey#Alternative_Ligatures
>>
> I like them more, as they keep the general impression of a sans font.
>
> I might be wrong, but to my understanding ligatures are typographic elements
> to improve readability and visual balance of words - similar to kerning.
>
> They are needed in cases, where the visually balanced distance between
> characters would lead to a too narrow space between parts of the characters.
>
> Based on this thoughts, the distance between the cross line in "f" and the
> "i" is too narrow, when the distance has to be reduced for a visual balance.
> Therefore the cross is extended to the "i".
>
> For the dot it's similar: At the adjusted character position the distance to
> the "f" bow is too small and the direction of the bow aims towards an
> eccentric position inside the dot. This looks imbalanced.
>
> Among your proposals I prefer Alternative 2 because the "f" should have the
> same height in my understanding.
>
> But I don't know why you raised the position of the dot. The logo doesn't
> contain another "i" in the regular area (the bold "i" in "Libre" is too
> different to be taken as reference). In comparison to such an "i" it would
> be necessary to extend the space between the bar and the dot a bit, because
> the "f" bow adds visual weight to the upper part of the "i". As we don't
> have a second regular "i" we don't need to move the dot in any direction.
>
> As you showed in your proposals the visual impression is improved, when the
> "f" bow is oriented towards the middle of the "i" dot.
>
> I think the same applies to the first "f": It's bow should be related to the
> following "f".
>
> I made a quick sketch to show you what I mean:
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Logo_ligature.png
>
> Keeping the position of the "i" dot, but adjusted the "f" bows to harmonize
> with the inclusion of the "i" in the visual element.
>
> I don't like it, because the first "f" bow should aim towards a slightly
> higher position on the second "f" and the bows are not constant in their
> bending. But I hope you'll understand what I mean.
>
> After the optimization the logo should differ so little, that people will
> not see the difference, but realize that it looks better.
>
> Best regards
>
> Bernhard
>
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[libreoffice-design] Motif draft

[Tobias Bernard]

hi all,

what's happening now concerning the motif?
on the wiki, step 1 "brainstorming" is still the current step and
tomorrow the task should be finished

i don't know if i really understood what you wanted, but here's a quick
draft i did using the triangle from the logo and the pictograms i did
for the icon proposal.

http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Libo-motif-by-tobias-draft-.svg

greetings
tobias


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Re: [libreoffice-design] "Challenge Continues"-Banner

[Bernhard Dippold]

Hi Tobias, all

Tobias Bernard schrieb:

hi

i don't know if we have enough fundraising banners yet,


Of course not!

But we need more different formats (as mentioned on the wiki page).


but here's one
more;)


Thank you for your work!


http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Libo-challengecontinues-banner-by-tobias.png
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Libo-banner-challenge-continues.svg


I like the general impression and the color language of green and grey - 
this perfectly fits to our branding in a way that doesn't mimic our website.


But there are some points I have to comment:

As the banner should be used on external sites, we  should remove the 
subline "The Document Foundation" form the logo. This subline should be 
reserved for our product and community, the websites 
www.documentfoundation.org and www.libreoffice.org and officially 
announced spokespeople.


The word cloud is a great idea - I like it very much. But as the size of 
the words differ not very much, it is hard to get any information from 
that part. You have to follow the line of words - a bit tricky for the 
average visitor of a website. The green words stand out quite well, but 
"Help" and "Office" wont tell them not very much.


Perhaps we could try to reduce the size of some words and emphasize 
"create" (and "best", perhaps "office suite" too) by relative size and / 
or color.


With regards to the symbol I'd ask you to have a look at the branding 
guidelines:

http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Branding#Guidelines_and_Best_Practices

(especially the first and fifth entry about whitespace and elements 
inside the symbol).


But as I already mentioned: The general impression is great. It might 
become the basis for a long-term banner to be used by marketing and web 
representation.


Best regards

Bernhard


greetings
tobias

ps: why does the the svg file have such an ugly preview?





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Re: [libreoffice-design] ligatures in the logo [was: LibO logo]

[Bernhard Dippold]

Hi Joey, Christoph, all,

Christoph, I'll reply to your mail later (I don't think we're far away 
from each other), here just a short remark to Joey...


Johannes Bausch schrieb:

Hey,

2011/2/25 Bernhard Dippold


sorry, but I might misinterpret your mail, because I don't remember whom
you are citing (and you don't mention the author):


Sorry for that. For me the whole discussion is a single thread in gmail.
I'll remember to add the names in the future when necessary. I was quoting
Martin.


Thanks.

At home my mail client shows the mails threaded, so it is not a problem 
to go back to the mail you cite. At work the webmail sorts all the mails 
by date - nearly no chance to find the original posting...


I have done two alternative ligatures, maybe they are better suited for the
font, since they're not so obtrusive. You can see them here:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:Joey#Alternative_Ligatures


I like them more, as they keep the general impression of a sans font.

I might be wrong, but to my understanding ligatures are typographic 
elements to improve readability and visual balance of words - similar to 
kerning.


They are needed in cases, where the visually balanced distance between 
characters would lead to a too narrow space between parts of the characters.


Based on this thoughts, the distance between the cross line in "f" and 
the "i" is too narrow, when the distance has to be reduced for a visual 
balance. Therefore the cross is extended to the "i".


For the dot it's similar: At the adjusted character position the 
distance to the "f" bow is too small and the direction of the bow aims 
towards an eccentric position inside the dot. This looks imbalanced.


Among your proposals I prefer Alternative 2 because the "f" should have 
the same height in my understanding.


But I don't know why you raised the position of the dot. The logo 
doesn't contain another "i" in the regular area (the bold "i" in "Libre" 
is too different to be taken as reference). In comparison to such an "i" 
it would be necessary to extend the space between the bar and the dot a 
bit, because the "f" bow adds visual weight to the upper part of the 
"i". As we don't have a second regular "i" we don't need to move the dot 
in any direction.


As you showed in your proposals the visual impression is improved, when 
the "f" bow is oriented towards the middle of the "i" dot.


I think the same applies to the first "f": It's bow should be related to 
the following "f".


I made a quick sketch to show you what I mean:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Logo_ligature.png

Keeping the position of the "i" dot, but adjusted the "f" bows to 
harmonize with the inclusion of the "i" in the visual element.


I don't like it, because the first "f" bow should aim towards a slightly 
higher position on the second "f" and the bows are not constant in their 
bending. But I hope you'll understand what I mean.


After the optimization the logo should differ so little, that people 
will not see the difference, but realize that it looks better.


Best regards

Bernhard

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[libreoffice-design] "Challenge Continues"-Banner

[Tobias Bernard]

hi

i don't know if we have enough fundraising banners yet, but here's one
more;)

http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Libo-challengecontinues-banner-by-tobias.png
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Libo-banner-challenge-continues.svg

greetings
tobias

ps: why does the the svg file have such an ugly preview? 


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Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [libreoffice-design] GreyScale banner proposal -- vote?

[Marc Paré]

Le 2011-02-26 15:47, Bernhard Dippold a écrit :

Marc Paré schrieb:

Le 2011-02-25 10:57, Bernhard Dippold a écrit :

Hi Marc, Daniel, all,

Marc Paré wrote:

Could we also have a vote on Daniel Rodiguez' "LibreOffice Foundation
Challenge Greyscale Banner" in the proposals section[1]?



http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOffice_FoundationChallenge_Greyscale_Banner.png




If we wouldn't have reached the 5 challenge, I'd vote for it.

But now it needs some overhaul.

Perhaps Daniel (or anybody else) could change the wording to some
"thank you" and "keep on donating" ...

And while you are updating the text - could you try to have the grey
background a bit lighter (or a gradient lighter to the top)?

I think the difference between the "Libre" part and the background
could be
a bit more to improve the contrast of the logo...


We have a need for a Greyscale banner for use on white stock paper and
this banner suits perfectly. We are using a flyer based on this banner
at the SCALE conference this weekend[3].


If you already finalized the flyer, please go for it.

In this case the banner can be considered as "official design element"
from
my side too.

Best regards

Bernhard



Hi Bernhard:

Would these do? I made some up for EN, FR, ES

http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOffice_FoundationChallenge_Banner_EN_ES_FR.svg



I would leave the "challenge" out of the new banner.

In my eyes the challenge was to get 5 euro in less than 6 weeks -
and we passed this challenge with flying colors.

Now our goal are more donations for our everyday work.

So the text should cover this.

Perhaps we could ask the marketing team for proposals?

Best regards

Bernhard



Hi Bernhard:

The text was pulled from Florian's note on the website list: 
http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.libreoffice.website/3936


But we could certainly get more proposals. We may be at the end of the 
fundraising period by the time this we get this done. I noticed that 
there is no longer a date countdown on the main banner. Is the end date 
still being advertised?


Cheers

Marc


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Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [libreoffice-design] GreyScale banner proposal -- vote?

[Bernhard Dippold]

Marc Paré schrieb:

Le 2011-02-25 10:57, Bernhard Dippold a écrit :

Hi Marc, Daniel, all,

Marc Paré wrote:

Could we also have a vote on Daniel Rodiguez' "LibreOffice Foundation
Challenge Greyscale Banner" in the proposals section[1]?



http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOffice_FoundationChallenge_Greyscale_Banner.png



If we wouldn't have reached the 5 challenge, I'd vote for it.

But now it needs some overhaul.

Perhaps Daniel (or anybody else) could change the wording to some
"thank you" and "keep on donating" ...

And while you are updating the text - could you try to have the grey
background a bit lighter (or a gradient lighter to the top)?

I think the difference between the "Libre" part and the background
could be
a bit more to improve the contrast of the logo...


We have a need for a Greyscale banner for use on white stock paper and
this banner suits perfectly. We are using a flyer based on this banner
at the SCALE conference this weekend[3].


If you already finalized the flyer, please go for it.

In this case the banner can be considered as "official design element"
from
my side too.

Best regards

Bernhard



Hi Bernhard:

Would these do? I made some up for EN, FR, ES

http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOffice_FoundationChallenge_Banner_EN_ES_FR.svg


I would leave the "challenge" out of the new banner.

In my eyes the challenge was to get 5 euro in less than 6 weeks - 
and we passed this challenge with flying colors.


Now our goal are more donations for our everyday work.

So the text should cover this.

Perhaps we could ask the marketing team for proposals?

Best regards

Bernhard

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [libreoffice-design] LibO logo

[Johannes Bausch]

Hey,

2011/2/25 Bernhard Dippold 

> sorry, but I might misinterpret your mail, because I don't remember whom
> you are citing (and you don't mention the author):
>
Sorry for that. For me the whole discussion is a single thread in gmail.
I'll remember to add the names in the future when necessary. I was quoting
Martin.

I have done two alternative ligatures, maybe they are better suited for the
font, since they're not so obtrusive. You can see them here:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:Joey#Alternative_Ligatures



> PS: It seems that my latest mails to this list sound a bit negative - they
> aren't
> meant at all as criticism!
> I fully support your approach to improve the logo by balancing the
> character
> distances and the general visual impression. I hope you take my comments
> as positive and constructive contribution to an important task!
>
No offense taken =). It's really great of you all to give positive criticism
and I value all your opinions, so thanks!

One thing, though. Christoph, you said that people from China or countries
with different alphabets might have problems reading ligatures. Is that
really the case? I always thought it was easier to read texts with
ligatures, because you don't read the distinct characters anyway but you
rather perceive stuff like the shape of the headline and vertical bars etc.?
That's an interesting topic, I'll have a look into this...

Joey

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