Re: [libreoffice-design] Re[2]: [libreoffice-design] Minutes from the design meeting 2018-Sep-05
Le 06/09/2018 à 12:32, Роман К. a écrit : Hello, all. I agree with "killing" Firefox personas. And I like adding just 4-5 solid color themes. I've (manually) added the LibreOffice 4 Light Ambiance persona from Firefox on my trainer PC (https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/libreoffice-4-light-ambiance/?src=search). Adding them is a chore: you've got to use the advanced mode because, as already stated, the UI is not working anymore for a lng time. After having doubts about personas (in fact I was very reluctant to using them), I can tell that it draws attention during training sessions ;-) So, I'd strongly vote to keep (and fix) the personas thingy and against having only solid themes. -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-design] Agenda for the design/UX meeting 2018-Sep-12
Hello Eric, Le 11/09/2018 à 17:37, Eric Ficheux a écrit : I've got a suggestion of UI improvement: adding a Reser Filter command to the Autofilter contextual menu. Effect of the command would be to remove all active filters on all the columns in the AutoFilter. Purpose of the feature is to make it easier to manipulate filters with many columns and apply a brand new set of filters. This situation is rather common when manipulatig Autofilters. The only ways to achieve this is to remove and then recreate the AutoFilter or to inactivate all filters one by one which can be tedious. Is it not what the menu Data > More filters > Reset filter does already? All the best, -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-design] Banner for AMA and 6.1 release
Hi K-J! Le 05/08/2018 à 16:19, K-J LibreOffice a écrit : Now I have four versions ;-) \o/ 1. Playing with the comments: https://nextcloud.documentfoundation.org/s/ywLZze9iCsEL8PS All of them are very nice, but this is the one I prefer. Well, just my taste. YMMV. Best, -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-design] Banner for AMA and 6.1 release
Hello, Le 04/08/2018 à 11:43, K-J LibreOffice a écrit : Try to make both: https://nextcloud.documentfoundation.org/s/szx2RS5rd57tX4e Nice one, but I'd prefer no colon after "presents", the 6.1 to be more prominent and with the "1" closer to the dot (kerning is awful). And yes, "LibreOffice" is smallish. So, to summarize: -- increase "LibreOffice" font size a little -- consequently, move the "AMA meets" line slightly down to leave both line "breathe" -- increase the version number font size -- move the "1" to the left Anyway, nice job. Greetings from -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-design] Design for t-shirt ..
Hi! jumping in the bandwaggon. Though I've no graphic skills, I'd like to comment upon the current offerings: -- the t-shirt designs don't provide any graphics on the back. Why so? Is it by design or just a matter of the designer's taste or some other constraint? -- the big 5 is meaningless to John Doe. When seeing s.o. wearing such a t-shirt, you have to come close to read "LibreOffice" and closer to read the slogan. Second, the "5" will be deprecated in a few months (err.. yep... I'm being optimistic for that matter ;) -- why don't you propose sweat-shirts as well? I understand these question have probably been discussed elsewhere but I didn't notice the threads in due time, it would seem. Sorry if I'm beating a dead horse. Have a good week-end, -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Improving printing UX
Hi! I'm jumping in the bandwagon, just for one note: Le 13/09/2015 23:45, Cor Nouws a écrit : One can set "the printer" in each page style of the active document. A bit conflicting?. But it can be added "set printer (for all page styles)" What if|when page styles get the same hierarchical inheritance the paragraph style have got for a long time? This would be much appreciated :) What if there are more page styles, and people do need to check margins and more settings? Then they are lost since they do not work on the proper place in the file: Format Page.. So I prefer to focus on education / directing users to the proper knowledge, place, rather then adding hacks that make the work flow and places to set stuff (see the phases 1-5 in my previous mail) even more look like spagetti. Just my 2#.. +1 -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] New templates contest
Hello Sophie all, Le 22/12/2014 15:13, Sophie a écrit : so are you volunteering to write that manual and document the templates or are you only ranting on those who are currently trying and are doing something? of course not: it's up to the template maker to document his/her work. What I want to emphasize is the *need* for documentation and that asking for a *no text* template is in many occurences plain wrong. IOW, providing a template without documenting it is stupid. HTH, -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker - Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] New templates contest
Hi Charles, I guess you took my words way too personnally. Or I couldn't explain myself clearly enough. So let me rephrase it. Le 22/12/2014 15:27, Charles-H. Schulz a écrit : Yes, but as you know in French, criticism is easy, action is more difficult. So I would have guessed you would have come up with an actual proposal. Or maybe it was just a warning that you think that it might lead to problems ? What I wanted to emphasize it that the cultural difference is very important from a country to another. IOW, what is OK for a Swissman won't do for an Italian and so on. Just /translating/ won't do the trick because the visual aspect of the template is culturally defined and *can't* be translated: it has to be thoroughly rethought which is a whole job by itself. Any other word is pure verbiage. -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker - Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] New templates contest
Hello Milan, Le 22/12/2014 15:27, Milan Bouchet-Valat a écrit : I don't understand what's so country-specific in a template. AFAIK MS Office does not ship different templates in the US and in Europe. Cannot templates be made mostly country-neutral if contributors are asked to avoid adding too nationally-rooted details? OMG! Did you *actually* have a look a MS templates? They CAN'T (sorry for shouting) be used as they are in any other context than an american one. Just ask any graphical spacialist. -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker - Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] New templates contest
Ah, OK. This may need some careful work by localization teams. not only. There are aesthetical and cultural points that you seem to ignore. *I* for one, wouldn't use *any* foreign template for a French use. Not because they are not translated, but because they don't fit the French culture. Translation is a side job for this matter. -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker - Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] New templates contest
Hi, Le 22/12/2014 10:40, Sophie a écrit : We often worry about lack of community involvement, but, when there is a wonderful occasion where community involvement with such a contest where there is a low-entry level of understanding of LibreOffice and where template usage is directed towards our users, we do not even provide users the chance to vote on a template contest ... surely a users idea of what a good and purposeful template would be different from a designer's perspective. I'm *very* reluctant to such a community project: templates very often show their cultural origin. This means that an american template won't fit a French user at all, and vice versa. There are some such templates on the extensions website already. I had written about that problem to the authors, hoping to find a way to make better tools, to no avail yet. I'm not sure users are aware of all the needed things to have a reliable template and one that could be localized too, so the best way would be that the design team does a pre selection and let the users vote only on the templates that complies. Could the Design team devise a template template that international users could use as a starting point? My 2 cents, -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker - Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] New templates contest
Hello Charles all, Le 22/12/2014 14:31, Charles-H. Schulz a écrit : True and it is dangerous since it could show some spontaneity and community involvement. We surely do not want that ;-) uh ? What would be the standard for such a template? Of course I haven't got the answer 'cause I think that contest thing to be a false good idea. Besides, I'm not part of the people proposing the contest, am I? We all come from different origins so we will all face the same issues and these can be adapted by users or by native lang projects to match their own standard. Let us not create difficulties. Launching the contest *is* creating difficulties. Let this be a joyful moment for community participation! Leading where? (asking is answering) Anyway, I'll stop ranting as this is not appreciated 'round here ;-) All the best, -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker - Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] New templates contest
Hello Sophie, Le 22/12/2014 14:37, Sophie a écrit : Yes and if you read the announcement or the discussions on the lists, you have noticed that it's a contest for en_US templates only. The risk being that those templates come to non-en_US users. well they are under a open source license, so anybody is invited to do the work or enhance what already exists. This is a very tough question, yes. Second, templates *need* to be documented either with included text or a secondary user manual (I think this should be request, opposite to the current contest asking for *no text*) -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker - Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] New templates contest
Hi Kevin, Le 22/12/2014 14:46, Kevin Suo a écrit : I think you may be interested in this feature request then: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86483 \o/ -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker - Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] IMPORTANT: Changing our workflow
Le 04/09/2014 20:12, Jean-Baptiste Faure a écrit : Hi Sophie, Le 04/09/2014 14:33, Sophie Gautier a écrit : [...] Lot of work is going on Redmine and even the marketing team is thinking about a setting a similar workflow, so it's not private or separate, if a team find it convenient to their worflow, it's only a tool. I agree, the problem is not the use of Redmine, the problem is removing the mailing-list and having a forum as unique discussion room. Forum only is a no-go for me. I share Jean-Baptiste thoughts: the mailing list is a great visibility tool, redmine won't be. I too manage the mails using Thunderbird and I also think fora to be a poor tool for exchanging (JBF has already stated the drawbacks). -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Who on Earth is the LibO installation target?
Hello, it's been 10 days since my first msg was posted. No take on this? Apart from Astron inquiring about the French curly apostrophe and a few (positive) individual comments, this msg didn't receive any feedback from the powers-that-be. As I said: Le 08/02/2014 15:30, Jean-Francois Nifenecker a écrit : *Who* is the LibreOffice installation target? -- Business and Corporate users? [...] all this is *very* important in order to LibreOffice to make its way in businesses and corporate environments. Failing to do so is shooting oneself in the foot. LibreOffice is a strong and living project. I'm stumped when I see that the topic of showing LibO strengths to corporate and administration environments doesn't bring much discussion. -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Who on Earth is the LibO installation target?
Hellon Astron, Le 10/02/2014 18:44, heinzless...@gmail.com a écrit : Anyway, just want to pick out a single from all your points: the single quote correction. The reason why it's off by default is because it is not clever enough to tell when an apostrophe (as in Rock 'n' roll, in the worst case with exactly that spelling) or an actual quote is meant, as the key pressed in either case is the same. The compromise then of course is that we get neither typographically correct... which seems to lead lots of people to misappropriate accents for apostrophes. Well, if I understand correctly, it seems better to not set a typographic must-have for a very common character because of a few border-line cases? The same could be told about the French double-quotes which *are* correctly setup and rendered but can bring some problems when one wants actual (angle second) marks. Sorry, I don't understand that reasoning. /o\ -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Who on Earth is the LibO installation target?
Hello Astron, Le 10/02/2014 23:23, Stefan Knorr a écrit : I think your look at this problem is very much informed by your being French and by your own professional perspective. My mother tongue, German, for instance uses far fewer apostrophes, especially in formal writing, as apostrophes most often appear in informal contractions (geht's = does it go, hast's = have you got it, ...). I would suppose that my apostrophe-to-single-quote ratio in all my German writing is around three to one. In academic writing especially, with its rigid quoting requirements the ratio in German (and maybe even in English) will actually tip in favour of the single quotes. Similarly, Angloamerican publishers of fiction very often use single quotes in place of all regular quotes. (Of course, they do have the advantage that their closing typographic quote mark looks the same as an apostrophe, I think.) I can't give actual numbers for French but a hard guess would be around 100 to 1. The apostrophe comes everytime the article Le (mascusline) or La (feminine) is placed in front of a noun or adjective that starts with a vowel. And there are plenty of these ;) Well, sorry to tell you, but straight quotes aren't actually good for much. They are at least not the correct character to use for angle seconds [1] or inches. Yes, you're right. But this is the current use FR writers find to that character. Of course, the Insert Special chars menu option is there for that. -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Who on Earth is the LibO installation target?
Le 11/02/2014 07:42, Jean-Francois Nifenecker a écrit : I can't give actual numbers for French but a hard guess would be around 100 to 1. The apostrophe comes everytime the article Le (mascusline) or La (feminine) is placed in front of a noun or adjective that starts with a vowel. And there are plenty of these ;) There are also all occurences of qui and que that become qu' for the same vowel reason stated above. eg: Le logiciel qu'il utilise (the software he uses) Of course there are some other situation where the apostrophe is used but the two above are the most frequent. -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Who on Earth is the LibO installation target?
Hello Tom, Le 08/02/2014 21:59, Tom Davies a écrit : However, I'm a bit confused by the No Stylist, no Navigator, missing settings.. Do you mean those things are not open by default? They seem to be there for me after doing an install but just not open and ready to use. In my FR installs the Stylist and the Navigator are installed but not displayed. I know very few users who actually know these tools exist and what they are meant for, not telling about displaying or using them :( As for the default settings, I have been wondering since the very first times of OOo 1.1.1 why the French apostrophe is not setup (the setting is available) while the French quote is. As a consequence most French users use the wrong character and create faulty documents. The automatic setting would be s easy to add... Other lacking settings: display non-printing chars, activate the backup copy, prefer the richer LibO dialogs, adjust zoom settings. In Writer: add an Insert from file toolbutton, set the Table toolbar position non-floating. In Draw: add a Fontwork toolbutton (the Fontwork toolbar can't do what this button does; or did I miss smthg?) Optionally, some extensions can really help, like AltSearch. I'm not sure if someone from documentation is also working on the types of things you are writing. Even if they are there is a good chance they have stalled and might appreciate someone else taking over what they have done so far and that might help give you some other ideas or confirm some of the ones you had already. Well, what I'm writing is about FR installs, though some common denominator could be found between languages (Stylist and Navigator come to mind). -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Who on Earth is the LibO installation target?
Hi, This has been posted as a contribution to another thread here. I feel this is very important and should be discussed in a separate thread. So, here we go. *Who* is the LibreOffice installation target? -- Business and Corporate users? Why, then, is the tool un-finished when the installation is over? No Stylist, no Navigator, missing settings. Worse, all these are hidden. If no-one in the company IT dept knows how much efficiency can be pulled from LibO, these gems stay hidden. This explains why thousands of users are indeed struggling against the tool while LibO is designed to help them. That's a real, real, shame. On a side note, this doesn't help getting market shares from these targets. From some pov the current office suites (unfortunately LibO is not alone), make me feel they are toys until someone takes some time to configure them before handling them to their in-house users. And I can tell you many IT depts won't ever change one single bit after LibO has been installed: the user is left alone. -- John Doe? Ok, fine with me. But then, please, give the businesses and corporate users a tool, a preset, something, anything to help them setting LibO to reach the efficiency their users need everyday. Currently the answer to the question is John Doe. Corporate users are left in a no man's land where they have to deal with problems by themselves with no help from any in-house dept. As a result, users just struggle with the office software to have their documents done. The IT dept generally have no clue to what's in a bird: they just install the software. The bosses never mind: they take decisions but won't ever use the tools. In the Office suite world, efficiency is just a motto. Don't you think our suite of predilection is worth better in corporate environments? Design and Marketing, any idea? IMO, LibO could help in the following ways: -- produce a document explaining what settings are better in a corporate environment (I'm currently working on that); -- having a document showing in details how to change the command-line installation settings to fit corporate needs (this might already exist but I failed to find it) -- have a specific installation tool that would give a ready-for-use suite right after intall. all this is *very* important in order to LibreOffice to make its way in businesses and corporate environments. Failing to do so is shooting oneself in the foot. -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: The Sidebar Problem
Le 07/02/2014 12:50, Mirek M. a écrit : Hi guys, I feel like the conversation has shifted to styles vs. direct formatting, which really isn't the crux of the sidebar problem. Yes, it does, at least in part, given the current state of the Sidebar. We can only discuss on what we see currently. And yes we may propose amending the Sidebar for a better UI. My main griefs with the Sidebar are: (1) it takes a lot of screen estate without introducing any new idiom, IMO (2) the Sidebar buttons are docked vertically which (a) makes it wider than necessary and (b) is not consistent with other UI items, such as the Stylist; (3) I need the Taskbar in Impress, which is replaced by the Sidebar (so far so good, with the notes above), but I do *not* want it in Writer: make it optional on a module basis (just like the Navigator and Stylist should be, btw). (BTW, the Properties pane of the sidebar is very likely to feature styles in the future.) About Styles. This is somewhat OT but requires a *deep* thinking from TDF. The root question is: *who* is the LibreOffice installation target? -- Business and Corporate users? Why, then, is the tool un-finished when the installation is done? No Stylist, No Navigator. Missing settings. All these are hidden. If no-one in the company IT dept knows how much efficiency can be pulled from LibO, these gems stay hidden. This explains why thousands of users are indeed struggling against the tool while LibO is designed to help them. That's a real, real, shame. On a side note, this doesn't help getting market shares from these targets. From some pov the current office suites (unfortunately LibO is not alone), make me feel they are toys until someone takes some time to configure them before giving them to the in-house users. And I can tell you many IT depts won't ever change one single bit after LibO has been installed. The user is left alone. -- John Doe? Ok, fine with me. But then give the businesses and corporate users a tool, a preset, something, to help them setting LibO to fit the efficiency their users need. Currently the answer to this question is John Doe. -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Controversial topics for the start center
Le 25/11/2013 20:05, Laurent Lyaudet a écrit : Hi, We just added a section Open Problems to the wiki for the start center: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Start_Center So far we have 3 topics discussed: - Sidebar positioning - Icons or thumbnails - Tabs with file type pickers Please add to the wiki all pros and cons you can think about for these topics. We'll try to have definitive resolutions next week at the IRC chat. to me, there's one more important topic wrt the start centre: naming the captions. ASFAICT (from my daily work with 400+ in-house users), people don't understand why the tabs or captions are labelled Spreadsheet, Presentation, Drawing and so on. The users I'm talking about have a hard time figuring a Spreadsheet is the type of document made using Calc. Hence my suggestion: don't use such words as above and prefer the module names. This is more explicit to the average John Doe and has the pro that it is consistent with the OS start menu option names. WRT Writer entry, named as Document, I find that strange. As any file is actually a document, the word Text would be much better, IMO. Of course, the previous paragraph suggests that Writer is the word to retain :) -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Controversial topics for the start center
Le 25/11/2013 23:12, V Stuart Foote a écrit : I've added your issue to the Open Problems issue on the Start Center Design wiki https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Start_Center . Please comment as needed there. Thanks Stuart! I wanted to add comments but that *§?# wiki is evil: when saving, there's a question that appears at the top and I didn't realize that immediately. Now I'm stuck for a while as the system blocks new saving attemps as potential spam :( On a UI pov, this thing is badly designed, imo: the poster clicks on Save at the bottom of the page, the question appears at the top and is not made especially visible. It's very easy to overlook it and insist at saving as I did too many times (how many will trigger the blocking is untold). 2nd: the blocking duration is not shown and the user wonders how long s-he'll have to wait until s-he can re-post. Frustrating. I wanted to add that to the 2nd column: 8 --- Pros: (1) the average user can associate a module name (which s-he knows well; eg: Calc) and a document type (which s-he knows less often; eg: Spreadsheet); (2) the labels are consistent with the OS start menu LibreOffice entries. Cons: longer text. --- 8 Thanks again, -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Start Center
Le 14/11/2013 14:46, Jan Holesovsky a écrit : Hi Pedro, Pedro píše v St 13. 11. 2013 v 15:21 -0800: First of all, I like *very much* the new design. Congratulations! However the existing tabs in the current 4.2 Alpha version Start Center have one advantage: in addition to having the most recent documents regardless of type in the All tab you can also get the most recent files by type (which allows the user to access easily e.g. the last used 20 spreadsheets). This is similar to the function in the extension HistoryMaster but much more user friendly. Is there any way to merge the Start Center proposed in this topic and the existing in 4.2 Alpha with several tabs? I'm sorry - too late... I've just implemented the new design :-) http://artax.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~kendy/design-list/startcenter-new.png This is nice! Thanks. Now, I'll insist on the presence of the module names: New Writer Text (btw: I think Text to be more accurate to Document), New Calc Spreadsheet and so on. I've already said that the users I know (that's some 400) don't understand why there's a Calc menu entry in the OS start menu and no such name in the Start Centre. IOW, they have a hard time figuring that New Spreadsheet will lead them to Calc. -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Start Center
Le 10/11/2013 21:54, Stefan Knorr a écrit : Hi all, So, since I was asked to try my hand at a mockup design incorporating the sidebar ... here goes this: With recent files: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/87946285/libreoffice/startcenter/startcen.html No recent files: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/87946285/libreoffice/startcenter/startcen-empty.html Nice! A couple questions/suggestions though: -- could the recent documents be sorted by module? eg. all Writer docs together, all Calc spreadsheet together, and so on. -- Here's something I very often hear or guess from the users to whom I show the start centre: what is a document? what is a spreadsheet? IOW, where's Calc or Writer? The modules are named as such in the OS start menu. The different naming in the start centre disturbs many users. Thus, I'd suggest: New Writer Text New Calc Spreadsheet (etc) Of course, this leads to longer strings. This is why many of the users I'm dealing with don't use the start centre at all: too awkward for them. They much prefer having links on the desktop directing to the individual modules they use and this is what we actually do before installing the PCs. Anyway, they don't use them much as well because they are used to double-clicking file names in the file manager ;) And before anyone says that this mockup is not branded enough, secondary brand elements are included (colours, motif in the sidebar). The logo is missing, but that is deliberate, to avoid clobbering people with LibreOffice logo #2 in just a few seconds (splash screen being the first one). Well done. Thanks again for attempting at a better UI. -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Final summary of last Libreoffice icon test
Le 27/04/2013 13:06, Heiko Tietze a écrit : We finished the series with two articles: Quick wins: Conclusions of the Libreoffice icon test http://user-prompt.com/conclusions-of-the-libreoffice-icon-test/ Tip the tool: How to label toolbar functions http://user-prompt.com/tip-the-tool-how-to-label-toolbar-functions/ Great job! You are welcome to discuss our conclusions. -- Paste from clipboard (Ctrl+V) mmm... The average user I'm dealing with doesn't know what the clipboard actually is. Well, this could be an occasion to learn. And Paste from previously cut or copied text (Ctrl+V) makes a long label, doesn't it? -- The Navigator thingy I agree with the inaccuracy of icon vs usage. I'd prefer a one-word naming than a sentence and I guess this is why the Navigator name had been chosen in the first place. Just like I wy prefer Stylist over Style and Formatting (this is why I'm still using the former name during training sessions). Back to the Navigator: sorry, I can't think to any other word than Navigator. I guess some more imaginative soul will jump in. -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Experimental new LibreOffice UI
Le 16/04/2013 18:08, Pedro a écrit : FYI Meanwhile at the Apache development site... https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2347109/AOO4_rev_1468069.png (screenshot by me, under Win XP SP3, using Industrial theme and after un-selecting the usual top toolbars, which duplicate most of the buttons showing on the new left panel) This is the most clever way for advanced styles users [1] to get rid of all those clumsy toolbars at once. Well done. [1] anyone wanting to be efficient using a word processor should be taught about styles *only*. -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] We recommend LibreOffice banner
Le 27/03/2013 14:10, Charles-H. Schulz a écrit : Sorry to be a pain... I hear we ought to have the words: We recommend in French: Nous recommandons -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] New 4.0 icon set?
Le 01/03/2013 20:03, Rtjhnstn a écrit : I did not like the solid color icons fro LO on the Internet, so I took internal image from 3.3.1 icons and pasted it into the appropriate solid color icon. I like the colours. I don't like the recessed top-right angles which make the icon strange to me. My 2 euro-cents, -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Flat/Symbolic Icons Update
Le 19/02/2013 19:46, Issa Alkurtass a écrit : Hello world, So on last Saturday's meeting we've decided to revive the flat icons by expanding on GNOME symbolic icon set to include LibreOffice icons. This would be way faster than starting from scratch and would help us gain a unified look on GNOME and a clean modern look on other platforms :) Before we get any further with them I wanted to see what people thought of the idea so I mashed together the buttons for the main toolbar https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Symbolic-test.png Since we don't necessarily want to go monochrome we can have our own colored version of them as well https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Symbolic-test-colored.png Great! They are absolutely great. Both sets. Elegant and simple (this implies that). Very easy to read. Keep on the good job, Issa! PS: I'd have smthg else than a drawer as the Save icon, but well... -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] RE: What Happened to the Flat Icon Set
Le 16/02/2013 16:01, Kévin PEIGNOT a écrit : The Flat icon set was not intended to be exactly monochrome. In fact, each icon would be monochrome, for example, text related icons would be blue, image related would be green etc etc. I do not find any more the proposal (seems it was mirek that made most of it), but I relly liked the idea. I do, too. I like the current flat icon set in Thunderbird 17. Neat and clear. It would be nice to have such an alternative in LibO. -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] LO 4 banner idea
Le 04/02/2013 15:14, Daniel A. Rodriguez a écrit : Hi, wouId you take a look at this file? https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LO4-airport-sign.svg My goal is to use it primarily on social networks, but maybe websites/blogs could use it as well. What do you think? \o/ Very nice ! -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: LO Writer UI Analysis
Le 01/02/2013 21:00, Heiko Tietze a écrit : My conclusion is that no decision should be drawn based on guessing and personal preferences. It is not that simple with just age and expertise. For instance, even regular, highly experienced users of Writer that utilize keyboard shortcuts don't know the shortcut to show non-printing characters. Or do you? I don't know that shortcut 'cause I don't need to: the non-printing chars are *always* on :-P BTW, this is not a good example, for the same reason as above: once activated, there's no reason to go back. Or did I miss smthg? PS: With power users I meant those that use a particular program to a higher extend than other. Same here. -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Icon help for LibreOffice v.4.0 features website page
Hello Marc, Le 02/02/2013 12:36, Marc Paré a écrit : Forgot to mention that the changes are done on the page. \o/ -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: LO Writer UI Analysis
Le 31/01/2013 22:53, Jay Lozier a écrit : A question about ribbons - Is there any data differentiating the type of user and their preferences? I think this is the core question: who is the user? what population uses the software? how skilled are they? do they use the software at home, at work, as professionals or for casual work? I 100% share Jay's thoughts for that matter. My thought is that users who heavily use software may prefer menus over ribbons while those who do not use the software much prefer ribbons. And this general trend would true for all types of software. The age may be skewing the results and including more casual users in the younger cohort. The 50+ users did not grow up with computers and many of these casual users do not like to use computers at all and probably would never use anything they did not use at work (eg Windows and MS Office). I find the personality of the user vs ribbon or menu interesting. +1 -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: LO Writer UI Analysis
Le 01/02/2013 00:55, Heiko Tietze a écrit : Means of self rated expertise from 1=beginner, 2=average user, to 3=expert (no one wants to be a beginner, but when do you become an expert?) grouped by ribbon vs. toolbar (semantic differential; first value agree totally with ribbons last with toolbar, all other between): At a training tart, I ask the trainees to estimate their current skills wrt the software on a 0 (no knowledge) to 10 (know everything) grid. I can tell you they are *always* overoptimistic. The same question asked at the end of the training gives far more realistic answers. Of course there are some indicators that support your idea, like power user of writer (toolbars are preferred) vs. user of impress (ribbons have attraction). Power users don't prefer toolbars: they prefer keyboard shortcuts because they have understood that the mouse is evil (to their wrists) and, more importantly, breaks the workflow. -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: LO Writer UI Analysis
Le 01/02/2013 18:31, Jean-Francois Nifenecker a écrit : At a training tart start -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] 4 4.0 branding polls and votes
Sorry to interfere but... WTF? Where are we supposed to vote? I can see currently 4 different offers and options: -- replying to some msg in this list -- contributing to an online poll papillon -- another online poll at googledocs (WTF? again) -- a poll through a blog I won't tell my preference, but it obviously goes to some Free tool :) Well... 4 is 3 too many, don't you think so? As all this can only lead to frustration, I'd suggest to start all that again from scratch on a dedicated page somewhere with clear and precise instructions. -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Icon help for LibreOffice v.4.0 features website page
Le 31/01/2013 00:13, Marc Paré a écrit : I am almost finished with the Features page due to be unveiled to the website public on the LibreOffice v.4.0 unveiling day in Feb[1]. WRT the Logo toolbar, I just realized right now that the logo word refers to the Logo language. Till now I had understood logotype. I think some others could have the same flooding imagination, thus specifying Logo language instead of Logo might be clearer. -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: Fwd: [libreoffice-design] Re: A new old branding?
Hi Astron, Le 20/01/2013 02:02, Stefan Knorr a écrit : sorry for the OT stuff here... this is just re: personas. [...] [1] Not really sure if that's the intended audience – but to me it seems so, as power users would probably rather alter behaviour by installing extensions than doing fancy things with their toolbar background. I realise, I could be totally wrong here, though. I also think that power users won't give a damn about that persona thingy and that the others won't even know it exists and if they do, won't use it either. Since the idea has been introduced, I stood silent because, well, this is a thing of these days and I first fell rather ol'timer. Still, my questions are these: do we *need* that functionality? What does it brings WRT software use? Wouldn't the devs be better employed fixing bugs rather than developing one more (useless?) functionality which would in turn bring more bugs? *Who* would use the personas apart from marketers? BTW, I don't know anyone around me using Firefox and personas. I don't want to rain on the party but my POV is that TDF shouldn't go that route at this moment because the usage/cost ratio seems very low to me. -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: [libreoffice-users] Word 2003 to Libre Writer - Comparison Chart
Hello, sent also to [design] as I think this is where it pertains. Le 12/11/2012 18:27, charles meyer a écrit : Hi Folks, MS Word has a comparison chart which shows you how to perform certain tasks in Word compared to how you effect them in WordPerfect. It's an easy chart to check (and learn) Word if you've been a WordPerfect user. Ex. Ctrl/F8 will perform a certain task in WordPerfect but that same task is done with different function key combinations in Word I was wondering if anyone has come across a similar comparison chart for Libre Writer and Word, especially Word 2003? The chart would show how a task is done in Word and then next to it would reveal how that task is done in Libre Writer. On the same goal and idea, I had suggested a *lng* time ago on the French OOo lists to create a set of keyboard shortcuts that would help the MS-Word power users switching to Writer. Beginners and standard users can switch quite easily. They haven't a thorough knowledge of the tool and usually just use the menus to get to the functionalities they need (argh!). Power users have long understood that the keyboard is a tool of productivity. Thus, they use keyboard shortcuts widely. As Word and Writer have different sets of shortcuts (at least they had when I left MS-Word alone, a long time ago), it could be an interesting work to port the Word shortcuts into Writer. We could then offer an easy transition that would fill a big gap for these people, helping them to switch tools more quickly. What do you think? Do I miss something? Note that this is just an idea. I have to-day no clue to what the Word shortcuts are vs Writer ones. -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [libreoffice-users] Word 2003 to Libre Writer - Comparison Chart
Hi Marc, Le 13/11/2012 11:17, Marc Paré a écrit : We had discussed this quite a while ago on the Marketing Team and Ron Faile JR had developed a series of reference cards that could be adapted for this. In fact we did adapt some of these for different booth purposes. When the end product is folded it is formed into a triangular prism that can sit on a desk in front of the keyboard. Have a look here: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Reference_Cards The reference cards may need checking as they were designed for LibreOffice 3.3 and they still need to be adapted for A4 paper stock. I still have one on my desk and the people I sent it to (educators who tried it with students) said that it was well received by both groups. It is really cool. Unless I'm mistaken, the ref cards you're talking about are a different beast. My suggestion is to have a configurable set of Writer shortcuts so that a Word power user finds his/her usual way of use without the need to learn yet another shortcut set. (BTW, ISTR that I had a proposal for a A4 3-fold refcard.) -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] [Writer] Header/footer deletion from the UI
Hello, (not sure whether this goes to design or ux, so I'm flooding both :) LibO version 3.6.4.0+ (Build ID: 2f42a6c) Xubuntu 12.04 Writer interface - Using the header (resp. footer) option in the UI If I ask to delete an existing header using the Header button, I'm receiving a confirmation dialog informing that the header contents will be lost. I feel that this behaviour is interfeering with the user workflow. IMO, the header deletion should be immediate (if the users asks for that, of course he knows that the contents will disappear!) so that the user can continue working on his document. But, of course, this operation should be undoable (which it is not currently). Thanks for your comments, -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Document Saved indicator
Le 31/05/2012 21:29, Kohei Yoshida a écrit : There is another reason for that. Document not only store its content but also view properties, but a change in the view properties doesn't trigger a document modified status. Here, view properties include things like (in case of spreadsheet) active sheet, cursor position, zoom level etc. But quite often you want to store the view properties after they've changed, and always enabling the save action allows this. Disabling the save action when the document content is unchanged even though the view has changed is IMO quite unfriendly in this regard. Also, it's IMO wrong to trigger a document modified status on view change. I beg to differ. A document is either changed and needs saving or is not and... doesn't. Conversely, if changing a property needs saving, then the document *is* changed. Also, the majority of applications that *I* personally touch always enable the save icon. Obviously there are some personal variations with experiences here. Anyway, the save action should trigger some feedback when it is done. The button disabled or toolbar message both convey that information. -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Redesigning the Design page
Le 27/04/2012 20:46, Andrew Pullins a écrit : I like it, I say implement it Mirek. +1 -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] questions about the status bar
Le 25/04/2012 18:02, Alberto Delgado a écrit : Digital signature: Useless for most users, i think we should hide it somewhere. In the organization where I work, we have individual smartcards for id purposes, with which we can (and we do) sign documents. It is very handy to have this information visible somewhere. I'd *really* like the information to remain visible. The status bar seems the best place, unless some other idea comes. Document modification: Someone suggested to put an asterisk on the title like other programs, i think the same thing. +1 Insertion / selection modes: I played around with them for a while and they are generally useless, you can do all of that with basic keyboard shortcuts. Also, most users have no idea of the meaning of the weird abbreviations in the bottom. I say we remove it. Page: Maybe you can use this... somehow, i'd say we take it out too. (page) Style information is always useful to have. This allows to not have to click on the Style and Formatting bar, page category button, just to know the current page style. Please keep it. Visualization mode: if it was a selector it'd be ok... in the view menu, or the toolbar. But a simple indicator is quite useless since all you have to do to know what mode you are on is look at the screen. In Calc: Sheet: The sheet selection is right above it, no rel need for sheet x of x Have you ever had dozens of sheets? I'm sure you couldn't see all of them at once. Sum: I think this shows the value of the selected rectangle, which you can see inside the rectangle, no need for it either. You can change the function applied to the current selection (sum by default): just right click on the status bar. Very useful, too. So, I'd ask to keep that. In Impress: Position and size: How could you use that? These things are usually done by eye, most people don't use it, i think it should go too. The mouse is evil :) Many people use the dialogs to change that. Having the information *before* calling the dialog is useful. Template: No one ever bothers on checking this out, you usually choose the template you like without ever caring about it's name. The person looking at the presentation is not always the creator. There, I can see the template chosen by the author, then decide to change to something else. -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] questions about the status bar
Le 25/04/2012 21:03, Andrew Pullins a écrit : Better idea. Make the status bar contextual, and only show the digital signature when there is one. There is no point in showing that there is no signature with a blank. Just don't show it. And when there is one it would appear. How does that sound Jean? That option is ok for me. The point is to make the information visible when a document is signed, without any user interaction. -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] questions about the status bar
Hi, Le 15/04/2012 22:38, Andrew Pullins a écrit : *For writer* https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/1/1e/New-libreoffice-writer-statusbar-v1.png [...] Language... why do we need to tell people what language they are in. there has never been a moment in my life where I had forgotten what language I speak and read. i guess this could be useful for people who speak different languages, but then again it does not take that long to recognize that the words on the screen are not English. when I see Spanish, German, or Swedish I do not wander if it is English. now I would not see the difference between German and Swedish, but I could see that it is definitely not English. so why is it even there? Nope. I can write EN text with the FR language defined for character formatting. The language (format) information is thus very important. I'd like to keep that in the status bar. Very useful for people writing multi-language documents (translators, international organizations members). *For draw/impress* https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/3/33/Current_LO_draw_impress_status_bar.png object description. is this a description like shape or line. if so do we need this. Yes: disambiguation. -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Writer background image - contest! :-)
Le 19/04/2012 14:17, Mirek M. a écrit : To be honest, I don't think a background image wound necessarily make our suite prettier. I'd prefer if the background stayed a solid color -- there's beauty in simplicity. +1 with an editable background color (some pale color by default). -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Writer background image - contest! :-)
Le 19/04/2012 17:01, Stefan Knorr (Astron) a écrit : To me, the idea seems sensible, but just as Mirek said, just adding a document background doesn't make the application that much prettier. +1 What is indeed quick to fix is the document background. Applying the same sickly hue of blue that the toolbar backgrounds currently use, looks actually quite okay. Try setting the document background to RGB(221,227,243), for instance. Why not. [1] A list of stuff we can probably remove from the standard toolbar: * Send as email (do people use that? for me, it doesn't play a role, because I usually want to check that I've done everything looks okay in an exported document.) yes * Print preview (I don't think that many people use it, ) hu? Live it alone, please. I do it all the time and know plenty of people using that icon. IMO, it can be removed if and only if a standard keyboard shortcut is assigned to the File/Print preview menu entry. * AutoSpellcheck (the only people who I've seen turn that off are people that are presenting stuff on OHP, but use a text document for that purpose; another use case would be making screenshots of eg diagrammes that you could add to another document later – we should encourage neither use case) * Format Paintbrush (counters our goal to encourage using styles) Oh yesss! * Add Hyperlink (is usually added automatically) dunno. Perhaps people creating errr... web pages... using Writer? * Gallery (completely useless right now) Yes. BTW, the Tools/Gallery menu should be Display/Gallery. * Non-printing characters (users set that once, never use it again) Mmmm... Remember that non-printing chars will govern the page borders appearance in 3.6.x (Cedric has reintroduced the former page borders that 3.5.x had lost). Thus, having a direct switch will be convenient, I think. * Data sources (probably used rather seldomly) Yes. Data sources are used by people with some knowledge, so pressing F4 is probably a no-brainer for them. * Help (?? there's a menu for that ) Yes. F1 is the way to go, anyway. [2] I still much prefer removing the status bar over removing the rulers. No, don't remove them as both are usefull. The rulers because you can see the current settings (I discourage using them to actually set parameters as this can be quite approximative). The status bar because it displays the... hem... document status. And, perhaps, can be used (double-click) for a quick access to some parameters. I'd add to the list: * Drawing tools First, there's a Display/Toolbars/Drawing that does that. Second, the question is: do people often use the drawing tools in Writer? IMO, they should be directed to the Draw module. * Styles and formatting (1) People using styles know what they are doing and have heard about F11, and (2) they usually set this once and for all. * Increase/Decrease paragraph margins Use styles instead :) I know of no-one who use these. -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Proportional cropping of images
Hi, dunno if this is UX or Design only, so I post to both ;) When we want to redimension/crop an image (eg in Writer), we can alternatively use: -- the mouse we just drag the image handles to get the wanted result. Pressing [Shift] along with the dragging will crop proportionaly. So far so good. The drawback is that mouse use is never very precise. For a precise handling, we need to go to the Image dialog. -- the Image dialog (double-click the image) In the Crop thumbnail we just change the percentage(s) or the dimension(s) and that's it. Well, not if we need a proportional cropping by knowing a reference dimension. Here we *must* change the percent only, taking care of the similar proportions ourselves to get the result. Changing a dimension value will require to look at the corresponding percentage, then get to the percent value for the other dimension and change that percentage proportionaly. Doh. Also, I'm not sure the percent value to be an exact calculation from a dimension value as percentages never seem to display any decimals. ISTM that a Proportional checkbox would be welcome in the dialog in order to bypass those multiple steps and allow a simple way of changing dimensions proportionaly. That checkbox state should be recorded. This has annoyed me since the very beginning when I got to use OOo 1.1. Would the change be a big deal? Thanks for your attention, -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] New member
All, I'm a recent (and till now silent) subscriber of this list. Before I post a few things about LibO GUI and usage, I'd like to introduce myself: I'm a 56 yo French civil servant using OOo since 2005 when my employer decided to move from MSO. Since then I never looked back and I have always been very pleased with OOo. In a former part of my professional life, I had been an unofficial part-time programmer (Turbo-Pascal, Object Pascal then Delphi). Though this was supposed to be a part-time job, it in fact took most of my time, daily and nightly for nearly 15yrs. I had to stop sometime after I switched job as I couldn't do both. Now, I've been an IT tech (support chain) for 20yrs. As such, among a lot of other things, I help and train my colleagues to our office automation suite of choice (formerly MSO, currently OOo, very soon to be LibO [2012]). As such, I can see everyday how and why my colleagues use the software, what they do right and what they do wrong. To the risk of seeming overly proud, I think I have a broad view of our corporate workflows and I can tell where the local pitfalls are (wrt office automation tools). I have some ideas of what should be changed wrt textprocessor and in which direction some changes would be beneficial to their users. (hence my visit here ;) BTW, I've written a dozen FR how-tos and guides for OOo Writer and I'm involved in some other Free software areas: I'm a member of the local Bordeaux LUG, a contributor to Clonezilla Live doc and also to the OpenStreetMap project. CU soon, -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
