Re: [Snowdrift-design] Preliminary Review of Dashboard Prototype

[Bryan Richter]

On Sun, Jul 30, 2017 at 04:28:24PM +0200, Robert Martinez (mray) wrote:
> 
> 
> On 30.07.2017 07:32, Jason Harrer wrote:
> > Hello, all -
> > 
> > Sending to both Design & Dev mailing lists, as the discussion applies to
> > both teams, and being that I can't make the weekly meetings (and seldom
> > have time to read the minutes), I figured it best to have the discussion
> > via the mailing lists.
> > 
> > With the SASS work underway (thanks to fr33's diligent patching and iko's
> > diligent updating), I began work this evening reviewing how to start
> > getting the dashboard page moving forward.  In particular, I wanted to
> > validate that all of the requested data that is on the prototype can in
> > fact be obtained.  It turns out that we need to review a big elephant in
> > the room once again.
> > 
> > For reference, the prototype for the Dashboard can be viewed at
> > https://snowdrift.sylphs.net/prototypes/alpha/dashboard/  I know mray is
> > working on some updates here and there, but I don't think his updates
> > included any plans on changing the piece that is the topic of this e-mail.
> > 
> > Under the Matches tab is a big red box that says "Monthly Limit".  This is
> > apparently to reflect a user's ability to limit how much money a user is
> > willing to pay out per month at the most.
> > 
> > There are two major concerns with this part of the prototype:
> > 
> > 1) This goes against the philosophies that Aaron has talked about numerous
> > times, all the way back to when I first started on the project 3-4 years
> > ago.  He was strongly against the concept of applying a cap/limit at all.
> > Iko thinks there was a decision change somewhere along the way in meetings
> > whereby there was an agreement to create a $5 limit for each user during
> > the alpha stage.  Being that I haven't been involved in meetings since the
> > date/time change (as it conflicts with a standing weekly meeting for my day
> > job), I can't really comment on that either way.  I'd like to make sure
> > that everyone is in agreement that this is indeed a function that we wish
> > to have, though, as that decision impacts next steps on moving forward (as
> > outlined below in the summary).
> > 
> > 2) There is currently no back-end support for a limit of any dollar
> > amount.  There isn't even a data element for such a limit to be stored
> > within the database at all (not that I can see, anyway).  Setting up such
> > logic, to the best of my foresight, would most likely entail updates to
> > both the website logic (allowing the user to set their limit, limiting the
> > amount a user can pledge to projects, etc.) as well as crowdmatch logic
> > (ensuring that the total amount we're trying to charge the user doesn't
> > exceed their limit...  Which theoretically should never happen if the
> > website logic works properly to ensure the total we attempt to charge
> > doesn't exceed their limit, but it's always good to double check just in
> > case there's a bug somwhere...).  Such Development work is outside of my
> > comfort zone and would have to rely on another Haskeller to have time to
> > make updates,.
> > 
> > 
> > That being said, we need to discuss whether the Design team needs to remove
> > the limit button/verbiage and adjust the meter to not reflect the limit
> > from the prototype - OR - if the Development team needs to make the
> > appropriate updates in order to support limit functionality.
> > 
> > Any questions, please ask away.
> > 
> > Thanks!!
> > 
> > - Jason (JazzyEagle)
> > 
> > 
> 
> I'm not well informed about the exact current status from the code side.
> My latest info on that matter is: There would be a hard 5$ limit,
> without any way to change that. Adding an adjustable limit would have to
> be implemented later on.
> 
> In terms of design this means a button is grayed out, and there is some
> text that explains why it isn't working yet.
> 
> If it turns out we don't have any limit whatsoever I expect a very bad
> impact on our credibility due to the hypothetical case of a pledge
> amount explosion.
> 
> You say there is no hard 5$ limit. How hard is it to implement that?
> 

It currently *is* implemented. It is part of the manual pledge
process. That pledge process goes like:

1. Check to see if the global donation amount (which is the same for
   everyone who is a patron) is over or under the limit.
2. If it is under, do the pledge.
3. If it is over, have a major effin' celebration, because that means
   Snowdrift has an income of $25,000 per month.



signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
___
Design mailing list
Design@lists.snowdrift.coop
https://lists.snowdrift.coop/mailman/listinfo/design

Re: [Snowdrift-design] Preliminary Review of Dashboard Prototype

[Aaron Wolf]

I want to add one clarification (to the note I just sent):

The remaining concern from a communication standpoint is that people not
believe that they get to stick to a budget limit and bypass the matching
pledge. Either they are matching or they aren't donating at all.

But I no longer think there's any problem with system-wide vs
budget-category / per-project budgets. As long as users understand that
they are in or out of the crowdmatching, I have no other worries about
their perceptions.



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
___
Design mailing list
Design@lists.snowdrift.coop
https://lists.snowdrift.coop/mailman/listinfo/design

Re: [Snowdrift-design] Preliminary Review of Dashboard Prototype

[Stephen Michel]

Here's what I remember from the discussions a few months back:

On Sun, Jul 30, 2017 at 1:32 AM, Jason Harrer  
wrote:


There are two major concerns with this part of the prototype:

1) This goes against the philosophies that Aaron has talked about 
numerous times, all the way back to when I first started on the 
project 3-4 years ago.  He was strongly against the concept of 
applying a cap/limit at all.


The objection was against a *per-project* limit, not a site-wide limit, 
which I think everyone agrees is necessary to make people comfortable 
with pledging (even if the "pledge amount explosion" scenario is not 
very likely).


2) There is currently no back-end support for a limit of any dollar 
amount.


We knew this. Plan at the time being:

- Adding a limit function in the backend is a priority
- Until we make an official announcement, we expect pledge numbers to 
be low, so we should have plenty of time before we're getting enough 
money to actually do a crowdmatch event.
- If for some reason we get to the point of doing a crowdmatch event 
before the limit is implemented, we will enforce the limit manually 
(just check to make sure nobody's being charged over $5.


___
Design mailing list
Design@lists.snowdrift.coop
https://lists.snowdrift.coop/mailman/listinfo/design

Re: [Snowdrift-design] Preliminary Review of Dashboard Prototype

[mray]

On 30.07.2017 07:32, Jason Harrer wrote:
> Hello, all -
> 
> Sending to both Design & Dev mailing lists, as the discussion applies to
> both teams, and being that I can't make the weekly meetings (and seldom
> have time to read the minutes), I figured it best to have the discussion
> via the mailing lists.
> 
> With the SASS work underway (thanks to fr33's diligent patching and iko's
> diligent updating), I began work this evening reviewing how to start
> getting the dashboard page moving forward.  In particular, I wanted to
> validate that all of the requested data that is on the prototype can in
> fact be obtained.  It turns out that we need to review a big elephant in
> the room once again.
> 
> For reference, the prototype for the Dashboard can be viewed at
> https://snowdrift.sylphs.net/prototypes/alpha/dashboard/  I know mray is
> working on some updates here and there, but I don't think his updates
> included any plans on changing the piece that is the topic of this e-mail.
> 
> Under the Matches tab is a big red box that says "Monthly Limit".  This is
> apparently to reflect a user's ability to limit how much money a user is
> willing to pay out per month at the most.
> 
> There are two major concerns with this part of the prototype:
> 
> 1) This goes against the philosophies that Aaron has talked about numerous
> times, all the way back to when I first started on the project 3-4 years
> ago.  He was strongly against the concept of applying a cap/limit at all.
> Iko thinks there was a decision change somewhere along the way in meetings
> whereby there was an agreement to create a $5 limit for each user during
> the alpha stage.  Being that I haven't been involved in meetings since the
> date/time change (as it conflicts with a standing weekly meeting for my day
> job), I can't really comment on that either way.  I'd like to make sure
> that everyone is in agreement that this is indeed a function that we wish
> to have, though, as that decision impacts next steps on moving forward (as
> outlined below in the summary).
> 
> 2) There is currently no back-end support for a limit of any dollar
> amount.  There isn't even a data element for such a limit to be stored
> within the database at all (not that I can see, anyway).  Setting up such
> logic, to the best of my foresight, would most likely entail updates to
> both the website logic (allowing the user to set their limit, limiting the
> amount a user can pledge to projects, etc.) as well as crowdmatch logic
> (ensuring that the total amount we're trying to charge the user doesn't
> exceed their limit...  Which theoretically should never happen if the
> website logic works properly to ensure the total we attempt to charge
> doesn't exceed their limit, but it's always good to double check just in
> case there's a bug somwhere...).  Such Development work is outside of my
> comfort zone and would have to rely on another Haskeller to have time to
> make updates,.
> 
> 
> That being said, we need to discuss whether the Design team needs to remove
> the limit button/verbiage and adjust the meter to not reflect the limit
> from the prototype - OR - if the Development team needs to make the
> appropriate updates in order to support limit functionality.
> 
> Any questions, please ask away.
> 
> Thanks!!
> 
> - Jason (JazzyEagle)
> 
> 

I'm not well informed about the exact current status from the code side.
My latest info on that matter is: There would be a hard 5$ limit,
without any way to change that. Adding an adjustable limit would have to
be implemented later on.

In terms of design this means a button is grayed out, and there is some
text that explains why it isn't working yet.

If it turns out we don't have any limit whatsoever I expect a very bad
impact on our credibility due to the hypothetical case of a pledge
amount explosion.

You say there is no hard 5$ limit. How hard is it to implement that?



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
___
Design mailing list
Design@lists.snowdrift.coop
https://lists.snowdrift.coop/mailman/listinfo/design

[Snowdrift-design] Preliminary Review of Dashboard Prototype

[Jason Harrer]

Hello, all -

Sending to both Design & Dev mailing lists, as the discussion applies to
both teams, and being that I can't make the weekly meetings (and seldom
have time to read the minutes), I figured it best to have the discussion
via the mailing lists.

With the SASS work underway (thanks to fr33's diligent patching and iko's
diligent updating), I began work this evening reviewing how to start
getting the dashboard page moving forward.  In particular, I wanted to
validate that all of the requested data that is on the prototype can in
fact be obtained.  It turns out that we need to review a big elephant in
the room once again.

For reference, the prototype for the Dashboard can be viewed at
https://snowdrift.sylphs.net/prototypes/alpha/dashboard/  I know mray is
working on some updates here and there, but I don't think his updates
included any plans on changing the piece that is the topic of this e-mail.

Under the Matches tab is a big red box that says "Monthly Limit".  This is
apparently to reflect a user's ability to limit how much money a user is
willing to pay out per month at the most.

There are two major concerns with this part of the prototype:

1) This goes against the philosophies that Aaron has talked about numerous
times, all the way back to when I first started on the project 3-4 years
ago.  He was strongly against the concept of applying a cap/limit at all.
Iko thinks there was a decision change somewhere along the way in meetings
whereby there was an agreement to create a $5 limit for each user during
the alpha stage.  Being that I haven't been involved in meetings since the
date/time change (as it conflicts with a standing weekly meeting for my day
job), I can't really comment on that either way.  I'd like to make sure
that everyone is in agreement that this is indeed a function that we wish
to have, though, as that decision impacts next steps on moving forward (as
outlined below in the summary).

2) There is currently no back-end support for a limit of any dollar
amount.  There isn't even a data element for such a limit to be stored
within the database at all (not that I can see, anyway).  Setting up such
logic, to the best of my foresight, would most likely entail updates to
both the website logic (allowing the user to set their limit, limiting the
amount a user can pledge to projects, etc.) as well as crowdmatch logic
(ensuring that the total amount we're trying to charge the user doesn't
exceed their limit...  Which theoretically should never happen if the
website logic works properly to ensure the total we attempt to charge
doesn't exceed their limit, but it's always good to double check just in
case there's a bug somwhere...).  Such Development work is outside of my
comfort zone and would have to rely on another Haskeller to have time to
make updates,.


That being said, we need to discuss whether the Design team needs to remove
the limit button/verbiage and adjust the meter to not reflect the limit
from the prototype - OR - if the Development team needs to make the
appropriate updates in order to support limit functionality.

Any questions, please ask away.

Thanks!!

- Jason (JazzyEagle)
___
Design mailing list
Design@lists.snowdrift.coop
https://lists.snowdrift.coop/mailman/listinfo/design