Re: New modules in 2.14
Le lundi 16 janvier 2006 à 19:13 -0700, Elijah Newren a écrit : Ok, here's what I'm guessing is the rough module consensus after having re-read or skimmed a ton of emails: In: - pyorbit (bindings suite) - deskbar-applet - fast-user-switch-applet (though this should be integrated in the panel later) - gnome-power-manager - gnome-screensaver - pessulus (new admin suite[2]) - sabayon[1] (also in new admin suite) - libnotify notification-daemon[3] - gnome-python-desktop[4] (_desktop_ suite) Out: - atomix[5] - nautilus-actions - anything else (if there be any) that might have been proposed but apparently wasn't important enough for anyone to bring up in the recent trying-to-reach-consensus thread ;-) Does that sound right? Sounds right to me. The only thing I fear is that a lot of apps will use notification bubbles without good reasons. I'd like to see some HIG recommandations for this. Also, it's not clear whether apps should use notification bubbles or the notification area. And sometimes they use both... Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: New modules in 2.14
Le lundi 16 janvier 2006 à 19:13 -0700, Elijah Newren a écrit : Ok, here's what I'm guessing is the rough module consensus after having re-read or skimmed a ton of emails: In: [...] - libnotify notification-daemon[3] [...] Does that sound right? Sounds right to me. The only thing I fear is that a lot of apps will use notification bubbles without good reasons. I'd like to see some HIG recommandations for this. Also, it's not clear whether apps should use notification bubbles or the notification area. And sometimes they use both... Vincent Hi, libnotify lets applications set a urgency level for notifications among low, normal and critical. Maybe notify-daemon can fileter them, showing only notifications above or equal a user selected urgency level, maybe with a very small and simple UI to store a GConf key with that value and able to send notify-daemon a command via dbus. This should work, at least until applications will start marking all their nofitications as critical :) Anyway a HIG annex will be more than welcome. Luca (I'm the one who proposed libnotify and notify-daemon :) ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: GStreamer version for 2.14
Hi Vincent, On Mon, 2006-01-16 at 22:42 +0100, Vincent Untz wrote: Well, the question is: is GStreamer 0.8 totally unmaintained? Yup. I had understood that Ronald was planning to make a new release with some fixes, so that's why I proposed to not close the bugs. I don't know what Ronald's plans are. Regards, -- Andy Wingo http://wingolog.org/ ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: New modules in 2.14
On Mon, 2006-01-16 at 19:13 -0700, Elijah Newren wrote: Ok, here's what I'm guessing is the rough module consensus after having re-read or skimmed a ton of emails: In: - pyorbit (bindings suite) - deskbar-applet - fast-user-switch-applet (though this should be integrated in the panel later) - gnome-power-manager - gnome-screensaver - pessulus (new admin suite[2]) - sabayon[1] (also in new admin suite) - libnotify notification-daemon[3] - gnome-python-desktop[4] (_desktop_ suite) Out: - atomix[5] - nautilus-actions what was the reason for refusing the inclusion of n-a? -- Rodrigo Moya [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: strange linker error
Davyd Madeley wrote: Has anyone seen an error like this before: g77 -shared .libs/libHORIZON.la-2.o -Wl,--rpath -Wl,/home/davyd/install/lib -Wl,--rpath -Wl,/home/davyd/install//lib -Wl,--rpath -Wl,/home/davyd/install/lib -Wl,--rpath -Wl,/home/davyd/install//lib -L/home/davyd/install/lib -L/home/davyd/install//lib /home/davyd/install/lib/libFNV.so /home/davyd/install//lib/libFPSMATH.so -Wl,-soname -Wl,libHORIZON.so.0 -o .libs/libHORIZON.so.0.0.0 /usr/bin/ld: errno: TLS definition in /lib/libc.so.6 section .tbss mismatches non-TLS reference in .libs/libHORIZON.la-2.o /lib/libc.so.6: could not read symbols: Bad value collect2: ld returned 1 exit status I'm completely at a loss as to how to fix this. It seems PHP and Qmail have previously had problems like this, but I couldn't work out what they did to fix it. I don't know F77, but if it was C, I will try to #include errno.h and maybe search and delete custom definition of errno, which does not work. -- Best Regards / S pozdravem, Stanislav Brabec software developer - SuSE CR, s. r. o. e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Drahobejlova 27 tel: +420 296 542 382 190 00 Praha 9fax: +420 296 542 374 Czech Republichttp://www.suse.cz/ ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: GStreamer version for 2.14
Le mardi 17 janvier 2006 à 10:48 +0100, Andy Wingo a écrit : Hi Vincent, On Mon, 2006-01-16 at 22:42 +0100, Vincent Untz wrote: Well, the question is: is GStreamer 0.8 totally unmaintained? Yup. Thanks for all the people running deployed software running Gstreamer 0.8 :( -- Frederic Crozat [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mandriva ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: GStreamer version for 2.14
quote who=Frederic Crozat Le mardi 17 janvier 2006 à 10:48 +0100, Andy Wingo a écrit : Hi Vincent, On Mon, 2006-01-16 at 22:42 +0100, Vincent Untz wrote: Well, the question is: is GStreamer 0.8 totally unmaintained? Yup. Thanks for all the people running deployed software running Gstreamer 0.8 :( Is GNOME 2.10 maintained? - Jeff -- linux.conf.au 2006: Dunedin, New Zealand http://linux.conf.au/ The name Lego came from two Danish words 'leg godt', meaning 'play well'. It also means 'I put together' in Latin. - BBC News, 2005 ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: New modules in 2.14
Seg, 2006-01-16 às 19:13 -0700, Elijah Newren escreveu: [4] gnome-python-desktop hasn't yet been split from gnome-python-extras but it was a very recent proposal (caused by requirements of other modules), so it may be a few more days yet before Gustavo is able to make the split. I would have done it already if some caring gnome cvs admin would have found time to answer my cvs surgery request[1].. :-) Regards. [1] Your message about CVS surgery request for gnome-python-extras/gnome-python-desktop split has been received and assigned a ticket ID [gnome.org #863]. -- Gustavo J. A. M. Carneiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] The universe is always one step beyond logic. signature.asc Description: Esta é uma parte de mensagem assinada digitalmente ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: New modules in 2.14
Em Ter, 2006-01-17 às 13:24 +, Gustavo J. A. M. Carneiro escreveu: I would have done it already if some caring gnome cvs admin would have found time to answer my cvs surgery request[1].. :-) The Sysadmin Team cares, believe me. Sorry for the delay, looking at it now. Yours, Guilherme de S. Pastore The GNOME Sysadmin Team ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: New modules in 2.14
Ter, 2006-01-17 às 11:43 -0200, Guilherme de S. Pastore escreveu: Em Ter, 2006-01-17 às 13:24 +, Gustavo J. A. M. Carneiro escreveu: I would have done it already if some caring gnome cvs admin would have found time to answer my cvs surgery request[1].. :-) The Sysadmin Team cares, believe me. Sorry for the delay, looking at it now. Yeah, I know, I don't mean to criticize; I asked for it on a saturday, so I shouldn't expect it so soon... :P PS: please add 'metacity' to the list of subdirs to copy into gnome-python-desktop. Thanks! Yours, Guilherme de S. Pastore The GNOME Sysadmin Team ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list -- Gustavo J. A. M. Carneiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] The universe is always one step beyond logic. signature.asc Description: Esta é uma parte de mensagem assinada digitalmente ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: New modules in 2.14
On Tue, 2006-01-17 at 09:58 +0100, Vincent Untz wrote: Sounds right to me. The only thing I fear is that a lot of apps will use notification bubbles without good reasons. I'd like to see some HIG recommandations for this. Also, it's not clear whether apps should use notification bubbles or the notification area. And sometimes they use both... Yeah, I've already put in some placeholders for this sort of stuff, but haven't had time to flesh them out yet: http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/draft_hig_new/desktop-notification-area.html#desktop-notification-balloon Suggestions for sane guidelines always welcome... Cheeri, Calum. -- CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer Sun Microsystems Ireland mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Java Desktop System Group http://ie.sun.com +353 1 819 9771 Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: New modules in 2.14
On Tue, 2006-01-17 at 14:04 +, Calum Benson wrote: On Tue, 2006-01-17 at 09:58 +0100, Vincent Untz wrote: Sounds right to me. The only thing I fear is that a lot of apps will use notification bubbles without good reasons. I'd like to see some HIG recommandations for this. Also, it's not clear whether apps should use notification bubbles or the notification area. And sometimes they use both... Yeah, I've already put in some placeholders for this sort of stuff, but haven't had time to flesh them out yet: http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/draft_hig_new/desktop-notification-area.html#desktop-notification-balloon Suggestions for sane guidelines always welcome... (Especially as I'm not really all that familiar with what the whole notification framework allows... is it written up anywhere?) Cheeri, Calum. -- CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer Sun Microsystems Ireland mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Java Desktop System Group http://ie.sun.com +353 1 819 9771 Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: New modules in 2.14
On Tue, 2006-01-17 at 14:09 +, Calum Benson wrote: On Tue, 2006-01-17 at 14:04 +, Calum Benson wrote: On Tue, 2006-01-17 at 09:58 +0100, Vincent Untz wrote: Sounds right to me. The only thing I fear is that a lot of apps will use notification bubbles without good reasons. I'd like to see some HIG recommandations for this. Also, it's not clear whether apps should use notification bubbles or the notification area. And sometimes they use both... Yeah, I've already put in some placeholders for this sort of stuff, but haven't had time to flesh them out yet: http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/draft_hig_new/desktop-notification-area.html#desktop-notification-balloon Suggestions for sane guidelines always welcome... (Especially as I'm not really all that familiar with what the whole notification framework allows... is it written up anywhere?) http://galago-project.org/specs/notification/index.php not sure if it's up-to-date, but should give you a broad view of how it works. -- Rodrigo Moya [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: GStreamer version for 2.14
On Tue, 2006-01-17 at 08:00 -0500, Frederic Crozat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Le mardi 17 janvier 2006 10:48 +0100, Andy Wingo a crit : On Mon, 2006-01-16 at 22:42 +0100, Vincent Untz wrote: Well, the question is: is GStreamer 0.8 totally unmaintained? Yup. Thanks for all the people running deployed software running Gstreamer 0.8 :( Didn't I just say I'd do a maintainance release in a few weeks (hopefully for beta1)? If there's crasher bugs, I'll try to include fixes for those. If there's patches attached to bugs, I'll do the same thing (send me an email to be sure they get applied, I don't watch bugzilla as closely as I used to). It doesn't have *Fluendo's* interest. That's totally not the same thing, and very understandable. Cheers, Ronald ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
~/.gnome2/share/fonts
Hi What is ~/.gnome2/share/fonts for? What programs/libs access it? Bug: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=310089 -- Rodrigo Moya [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Survey on GNOME developers
Dear GNOME contributors, The Hypermedia lab at the University of Tampere, Finland is doing a survey on free/open source software (FOSS) communities. We ask GNOME contributors, including developers, bug fixers, documentation writers, testers, packagers and coordinators to participate in the survey. Please take a few minutes to answer the survey at http://hiisi.fi/survey/gnome We hope the survey will increase our understanding of the structure of FOSS communities and company participation in FOSS. The research is part of the project Managing Open Source Software as an Integrated Part of Business (http://coss.fi/ossi/). Results of the survey will be available publically later this year. You may contact me with any questions or comments. Thanks, -- Researcher Niklas Vainio Hypermedia Laboratory University of Tampere, Finland Weblog: http://hiisi.fi/blog/ ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: GStreamer version for 2.14
ons, 18,.01.2006 kl. 00.22 +1100, skrev Jeff Waugh: quote who=Frederic Crozat Le mardi 17 janvier 2006 à 10:48 +0100, Andy Wingo a écrit : Hi Vincent, On Mon, 2006-01-16 at 22:42 +0100, Vincent Untz wrote: Well, the question is: is GStreamer 0.8 totally unmaintained? Yup. Thanks for all the people running deployed software running Gstreamer 0.8 :( Is GNOME 2.10 maintained? Perhaps the even more relevant analogy is that by the time GNOME 2.14 is out GNOME 2.12.x won't be maintained if you interpret it like this. Sure, if there are critical things that pop up people will commit the fixes to the stable branches and maybe even do a release, but that's about it from my experience. Maintenance happens on *one* stable branch at the time and that's more than enough work to keep us busy. Cheers Kjartan ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: GStreamer version for 2.14
Le mercredi 18 janvier 2006 à 00:22 +1100, Jeff Waugh a écrit : quote who=Frederic Crozat Le mardi 17 janvier 2006 à 10:48 +0100, Andy Wingo a écrit : Hi Vincent, On Mon, 2006-01-16 at 22:42 +0100, Vincent Untz wrote: Well, the question is: is GStreamer 0.8 totally unmaintained? Yup. Thanks for all the people running deployed software running Gstreamer 0.8 :( Is GNOME 2.10 maintained? If you want to do an analogy, you should ask : is GNOME 2.12 maintained ? ;) Moreover, most bug fixes from 2.12 can be backported to 2.10 when relevant. After discussing on irc, it seems not everybody has the same definition of unmaintained. For me, unmaintained means dead, ie no more commit on CVS, nothing. For Christian (and probably other), unmaintained means not doing real works on it. -- Frederic Crozat [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mandriva ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: GStreamer version for 2.14
Hi, Is GNOME 2.10 maintained? If you want to do an analogy, you should ask : is GNOME 2.12 maintained ? ;) No - since GNOME 2.14 is not out yet. The question is - is GNOME maintaining more than one stable branch at any point ? After discussing on irc, it seems not everybody has the same definition of unmaintained. For me, unmaintained means dead, ie no more commit on CVS, nothing. I think in this particular case, for me it means something roughly like: - important security fixes will get applied and released - crasher bugs that have patches and are not invasive will get applied - I make an effort to not destabilize the latest released version on this branch by applying random patches from wherever without proper testing - I'm not actively looking for bugs to fix in it - big feature additions, addition of plug-ins, ... do not get applied I think that's a fair compromise between work involved, viability of that branch, and expectations from users of that version. I am assuming that Ronald, by maintaining, in this case, means he might try and fix bugs on his own. In practice, given that he's busy, I would expect him to either be really annoyed by it personally or have a patch in bugzilla to work from. My only worry when it comes to 0.8 is possible destabilization of a highly evolved code base that is about as good as it can possibly get at this point. Thomas Dave/Dina : future TV today ! - http://www.davedina.org/ -*- thomas (dot) apestaart (dot) org -*- Kiss me please kiss me Kiss me out of desire baby not consolation Oh you know it makes me so angry cause I know that in time I'll only make you cry -*- thomas (at) apestaart (dot) org -*- URGent, best radio on the net - 24/7 ! - http://urgent.fm/ ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Survey on GNOME developers
On Tue, 17 Jan 2006, Niklas Vainio wrote: Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 18:08:58 +0200 From: Niklas Vainio [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Survey on GNOME developers Dear GNOME contributors, The Hypermedia lab at the University of Tampere, Finland is doing a survey on free/open source software (FOSS) communities. We ask GNOME There seem to have been quite a few of these over the past few years. I dont suppose anyone has been keeping track of how many surveys have been requested and what results have been shared in return? It is probably just that the request for participation are more noticable than the announcements of results? - Alan H. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: ~/.gnome2/share/fonts
I believe this is from libgnomeprint. -- dobey On Tue, 2006-01-17 at 16:29 +0100, Rodrigo Moya wrote: Hi What is ~/.gnome2/share/fonts for? What programs/libs access it? Bug: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=310089 ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
ATK/AT-SPI tarball b0rkage
Hi: FYI, two tarball uploads failed, leaving corrupted tarballs in my dir. Uploading to ftp.gnome.org revealed the problem (seems to have been caused by misbehaving socks proxy on my end). Will fix when I have a clean pipe to push the bits through (about 2 hours). Sorry for the inconvenience. BTW the new tarballs (at-spi-1.7.2 and atk-1.11.2) include the docs which were missing from at-spi-1.7.0 and atk-1.11.0, which is the reason for today's original, broken, re-dist. regards Bill ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
GNOME Icon Theme 2.13.5[.1] AKA the HOLY CRAP, ICONS! release
That's right. Only Kenya [1] has lions, and only GNOME has over 1200 uniquely named icons, in its default theme. In an effort to improve the maintainability of gnome-icon-theme, I've spent most of this past weekend preparing it to migrate GNOME to the Icon Naming Specification, make the default theme be much more generic, and help clean up the UI a bit, by helping to get rid of extraneous icons. As a result of these changes, our wonderfully talented icon artist, jimmac, is actually interested in fixing up some icons in the default theme again. Also, gnome-icon-theme now, and until the desktop is entirely migrated to the Icon Naming Specification, and it is much more complete and finalized, will depend on icon-naming-utils [2]. As changes happen in both the theme, and naming utilities, the version requirement will be bumped, so that the backward compatibility may remain optimal. Many more releases will follow swift and often, between now and 2.14.0. Enjoy. -- dobey [1] http://www.weebls-stuff.com/toons/kenya/ [2] http://tango-project.org/Standard_Icon_Naming_Specification ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: GNOME Icon Theme 2.13.5[.1] AKA the HOLY CRAP, ICONS! release
On 1/17/06, Rodney Dawes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's right. Only Kenya [1] has lions, and only GNOME has over 1200 uniquely named icons, in its default theme. In an effort to improve the maintainability of gnome-icon-theme, I've spent most of this past weekend preparing it to migrate GNOME to the Icon Naming Specification, make the default theme be much more generic, and help clean up the UI a bit, by helping to get rid of extraneous icons. As a result of these changes, our wonderfully talented icon artist, jimmac, is actually interested in fixing up some icons in the default theme again. Also, gnome-icon-theme now, and until the desktop is entirely migrated to the Icon Naming Specification, and it is much more complete and finalized, will depend on icon-naming-utils [2]. As changes happen in both the theme, and naming utilities, the version requirement will be bumped, so that the backward compatibility may remain optimal. So, lets talk about this new dependency, icon-naming-utils. There is a couple of issues here: - The jhbuild gnome 2.14 moduleset does not know about it - It does not have a bug tracker, or 'canonical' tarball location - It installs things in SuSE-specific locations like /usr/share/dtds, and scripts in /usr/libexec - It uses perl-XML-Simple, unlike other perl utilitites like intltool, which use perl-XML-Parser. This is a problem for us, since perl-XML-Simple is in Fedora Extras atm. Matthias ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: GNOME Icon Theme 2.13.5[.1] AKA the HOLY CRAP, ICONS! release
Hi Rodney, Le mardi 17 janvier 2006 à 12:59 -0500, Rodney Dawes a écrit : That's right. Only Kenya [1] has lions, and only GNOME has over 1200 uniquely named icons, in its default theme. In an effort to improve the maintainability of gnome-icon-theme, I've spent most of this past weekend preparing it to migrate GNOME to the Icon Naming Specification, make the default theme be much more generic, and help clean up the UI a bit, by helping to get rid of extraneous icons. Will there be an easy way to update all our modules so they use the new icon names? If we migrate right now, I'm pretty sure some modules won't find some icons because they were renamed. Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: GNOME Icon Theme 2.13.5[.1] AKA the HOLY CRAP, ICONS! release
On Tue, 2006-01-17 at 14:14 -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote: So, lets talk about this new dependency, icon-naming-utils. There is a couple of issues here: - The jhbuild gnome 2.14 moduleset does not know about it This is a trivial problem then. Let's fix it. I don't use jhbuild, so I know not where things get changed to add modules to it. - It does not have a bug tracker, or 'canonical' tarball location The current canonical tarball location is on the Tango site at http://tango-project.org/releases/ . Bugs currently get filed against the tango product in http://bugs.freedesktop.org/ , however, that does need some re-organization. - It installs things in SuSE-specific locations like /usr/share/dtds, and scripts in /usr/libexec Nothing about the script is SuSE specific. It installs the dtd to $(datadir)/dtds, because having a bunch of separate directories each with one or two dtd files, seems kind of silly to me, in a release engineering, and emacs-using perspective. And installing to $(libexecdir) is hardly specific to SUSE, given that we specify different libexecdir paths for all of our packages. It installs it in libexecdir, because that's where it should be. It is not meant to be run by users by hand. It is meant to be run by the Makefile rules at make install time. However, nothing about it is specific to SUSE. So, please don't try to pull the distro-war card. Foresight ships Tango as the default theme even, and Tango has used icon-naming-utils since the beginning. - It uses perl-XML-Simple, unlike other perl utilitites like intltool, which use perl-XML-Parser. This is a problem for us, since perl-XML-Simple is in Fedora Extras atm. Well, the difference in complexity between Simple and just Parser is an order of magnitude of difference, in terms of code, and I personally am not going to change it, just for Fedora. This is a build-time only dependency, and not a runtime depdency. I can't keep up with what every distro out there ships, and in what level of the distro they ship it in. The size of XML-Simple is extremely small, as well. If you're willing to write a patch to use XMl-Parser instead, and maintain it, then we can talk about that separately I guess, but I see no reason to do it for something so simple as reading an XML file into a hash to loop over. -- dobey ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: GNOME Icon Theme 2.13.5[.1] AKA the HOLY CRAP, ICONS! release
On Tue, 2006-01-17 at 20:37 +0100, Vincent Untz wrote: Hi Rodney, Le mardi 17 janvier 2006 à 12:59 -0500, Rodney Dawes a écrit : That's right. Only Kenya [1] has lions, and only GNOME has over 1200 uniquely named icons, in its default theme. In an effort to improve the maintainability of gnome-icon-theme, I've spent most of this past weekend preparing it to migrate GNOME to the Icon Naming Specification, make the default theme be much more generic, and help clean up the UI a bit, by helping to get rid of extraneous icons. Will there be an easy way to update all our modules so they use the new icon names? If we migrate right now, I'm pretty sure some modules won't find some icons because they were renamed. I'm going to try and get a gallery status page up on gnome.org somewhere, like we have for the tango theme, soon, which will help show which icons are done in the theme, and what names are in the spec. However, there's no easy way to just fix all the code to change the icons that are being looked up. The latest versions of GTK+ and libgnomeui look up icons for MIME types through the naming spec style first, and then fall back to the old gnome style. Also, the icon-naming-utils script creates a large number of symlinks at install time, to preserve backward compatibility. So, despite the fact that the actual icon files have changed names to comply with the spec, the apps should all still work, and will make the transition much more smooth. I plan to patch gnome-applets soon though, so that it uses the new names in gweather. Also, one of the ideas as I stated in the annoucement, is to help reduce the overall number of icons used in the desktop. So, some icons currently in use, may be better off, were we to get rid of them. But this is part of the work in getting the spec up to par with what is really needed, and migrating the desktop over. In the end, I think all this work is going to be very profitable [1] for us, as a free software project and community. -- dobey [1] profitable in the communist sense, without monetary exchange ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: GNOME Icon Theme 2.13.5[.1] AKA the HOLY CRAP, ICONS! release
On 1/17/06, Rodney Dawes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 2006-01-17 at 14:14 -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote: So, lets talk about this new dependency, icon-naming-utils. There is a couple of issues here: - The jhbuild gnome 2.14 moduleset does not know about it This is a trivial problem then. Let's fix it. I don't use jhbuild, so I know not where things get changed to add modules to it. - It does not have a bug tracker, or 'canonical' tarball location The current canonical tarball location is on the Tango site at http://tango-project.org/releases/ . Bugs currently get filed against the tango product in http://bugs.freedesktop.org/ , however, that does need some re-organization. - It installs things in SuSE-specific locations like /usr/share/dtds, and scripts in /usr/libexec Nothing about the script is SuSE specific. It installs the dtd to $(datadir)/dtds, because having a bunch of separate directories each with one or two dtd files, seems kind of silly to me, in a release engineering, and emacs-using perspective. And installing to $(libexecdir) is hardly specific to SUSE, given that we specify different libexecdir paths for all of our packages. It installs it in libexecdir, because that's where it should be. It is not meant to be run by users by hand. It is meant to be run by the Makefile rules at make install time. However, nothing about it is specific to SUSE. So, please don't try to pull the distro-war card. Foresight ships Tango as the default theme even, and Tango has used icon-naming-utils since the beginning. I'm not trying to pull any distro-war here, just pointing out that nothing else in Gnome uses /usr/share/dtds, and thus you'll end up with a directory containing only a single dtd, which is even more silly. Unless your distro happens to install other things in /usr/share/dtds, which seems dubious as well, since the standard location for things like that should be below /usr/share/sgml. I don't see that the not-called-by-users rationale really extends to build utilities, cf /usr/bin/glib-mkenums /usr/bin/intltool-extract ... I don't see how Tango is relevant to this discussion at all, we are talking about gnome-icon-theme here. - It uses perl-XML-Simple, unlike other perl utilitites like intltool, which use perl-XML-Parser. This is a problem for us, since perl-XML-Simple is in Fedora Extras atm. Well, the difference in complexity between Simple and just Parser is an order of magnitude of difference, in terms of code, and I personally am not going to change it, just for Fedora. This is a build-time only dependency, and not a runtime depdency. I can't keep up with what every distro out there ships, and in what level of the distro they ship it in. The size of XML-Simple is extremely small, as well. If you're willing to write a patch to use XMl-Parser instead, and maintain it, then we can talk about that separately I guess, but I see no reason to do it for something so simple as reading an XML file into a hash to loop over. Great attitude, introducing a new dependency deep in the devel cycle, and say you don't care that its problematic for others. Matthias ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: GNOME Icon Theme 2.13.5[.1] AKA the HOLY CRAP, ICONS! release
On 1/17/06, Rodney Dawes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - It uses perl-XML-Simple, unlike other perl utilitites like intltool, which use perl-XML-Parser. This is a problem for us, since perl-XML-Simple is in Fedora Extras atm. Well, the difference in complexity between Simple and just Parser is an order of magnitude of difference, in terms of code, and I personally am not going to change it, just for Fedora. This shouldn't be looked at as a 'just for Fedora' thing. Addition of external dependencies to release set modules is subject to community approval and we do have precedent of not allowing hard dependencies on modules that maintainers would have otherwise used. It only makes sense because we don't want an explosion of external dependencies. Given Matthias objection, it is something we'll have to push for general consensus on. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: GNOME Icon Theme 2.13.5[.1] AKA the HOLY CRAP, ICONS! release
On Tue, 2006-01-17 at 15:15 -0500, Rodney Dawes wrote: snip I plan to patch gnome-applets soon though, so that it uses the new names in gweather. snip So what's the easiest way for a maintainer to scan his src/ directory identifying the old names, and suggesting replacements? For instance, for g-p-m a script would be really handy that searched for gnome-dev-acadapter and suggested a replacement. Or are we supposed to just reply on the compat symlinks? Thanks, Richard. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: GNOME Icon Theme 2.13.5[.1] AKA the HOLY CRAP, ICONS! release
Hi, On Tue, 2006-01-17 at 15:15 -0500, Rodney Dawes wrote: On Tue, 2006-01-17 at 20:37 +0100, Vincent Untz wrote: Hi Rodney, I plan to patch gnome-applets soon though, so that it uses the new names in gweather. Also, one of the ideas as I stated in the annoucement, is to help reduce the overall number of icons used in the desktop. So, some icons currently in use, may be better off, were we to get rid of them. I was about to open a bug for it, but I'll mention this issue here anyway: the current gdict icon should be deprecated and deleted from the theme, since gnome-dictionary ships its own. Also, I'd need some of the fine GNOME icon artists to give it a spin (I'm no icon artist, nor expert of Inkscape whatsoever, so the current icon[1] still kinda sucks). Please, pretty please with sugar on top. :-) Ciao, Emmanuele. +++ [1] http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/*checkout*/gnome-utils/gnome-dictionary/data/gnome-dictionary.png I also have the original SVG to play with, just in case. -- Emmanuele Bassi - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Log: http://log.emmanuelebassi.net ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: GNOME Icon Theme 2.13.5[.1] AKA the HOLY CRAP, ICONS! release
On 1/17/06, Elijah Newren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 1/17/06, Rodney Dawes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - It uses perl-XML-Simple, unlike other perl utilitites like intltool, which use perl-XML-Parser. This is a problem for us, since perl-XML-Simple is in Fedora Extras atm. Well, the difference in complexity between Simple and just Parser is an order of magnitude of difference, in terms of code, and I personally am not going to change it, just for Fedora. This shouldn't be looked at as a 'just for Fedora' thing. Addition of external dependencies to release set modules is subject to community approval and we do have precedent of not allowing hard dependencies on modules that maintainers would have otherwise used. It only makes sense because we don't want an explosion of external dependencies. Given Matthias objection, it is something we'll have to push for general consensus on. I may be able to get perl-XML-Simple pulled into FC2, even if we normally don't allow new packages after test2. But regardless of that, it sucks to use *yet* another perl parser, just because we haven't used them all yet... ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: GNOME Icon Theme 2.13.5[.1] AKA the HOLY CRAP, ICONS! release
I may be able to get perl-XML-Simple pulled into FC2, even if we normally don't allow new packages after test2. But regardless of that, it sucks to use *yet* another perl parser, just because we haven't used them all yet... Ok, this is getting interesting, perl-XML-Simple drags in perl-Tie-IxHash, lets see how much of the perl universe will end up getting caught by this innocent dependency... ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: GNOME Icon Theme 2.13.5[.1] AKA the HOLY CRAP, ICONS! release
Il giorno mar, 17/01/2006 alle 14.14 -0500, Matthias Clasen ha scritto: On 1/17/06, Rodney Dawes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's right. Only Kenya [1] has lions, and only GNOME has over 1200 uniquely named icons, in its default theme. In an effort to improve the maintainability of gnome-icon-theme, I've spent most of this past weekend preparing it to migrate GNOME to the Icon Naming Specification, make the default theme be much more generic, and help clean up the UI a bit, by helping to get rid of extraneous icons. As a result of these changes, our wonderfully talented icon artist, jimmac, is actually interested in fixing up some icons in the default theme again. Also, gnome-icon-theme now, and until the desktop is entirely migrated to the Icon Naming Specification, and it is much more complete and finalized, will depend on icon-naming-utils [2]. As changes happen in both the theme, and naming utilities, the version requirement will be bumped, so that the backward compatibility may remain optimal. So, lets talk about this new dependency, icon-naming-utils. There is a couple of issues here: - The jhbuild gnome 2.14 moduleset does not know about it See http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=327297 ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: GNOME Icon Theme 2.13.5[.1] AKA the HOLY CRAP, ICONS! release
On Tue, 2006-01-17 at 15:55 -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote: I may be able to get perl-XML-Simple pulled into FC2, even if we normally don't allow new packages after test2. But regardless of that, it sucks to use *yet* another perl parser, just because we haven't used them all yet... Ok, this is getting interesting, perl-XML-Simple drags in perl-Tie-IxHash, lets see how much of the perl universe will end up getting caught by this innocent dependency... Perhaps this is a packaging issue? It certainly doesn't depend on that module here [1], or any machine I've ever installed it on before. And according to the source listing on cpan.org, it seems to only require XML::SAX or XML::Parser, which then also depend on other things, such as Storable, or dependencies provided by the perl source itself. -- dobey [1] perl-XML-Simple 2.14 on unstable SUSE/Novell packages ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: New modules in 2.14
On 1/17/06, Rodrigo Moya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 2006-01-16 at 19:13 -0700, Elijah Newren wrote: Ok, here's what I'm guessing is the rough module consensus after having re-read or skimmed a ton of emails: In: - pyorbit (bindings suite) - deskbar-applet - fast-user-switch-applet (though this should be integrated in the panel later) - gnome-power-manager - gnome-screensaver - pessulus (new admin suite[2]) - sabayon[1] (also in new admin suite) - libnotify notification-daemon[3] - gnome-python-desktop[4] (_desktop_ suite) Out: - atomix[5] - nautilus-actions what was the reason for refusing the inclusion of n-a? Just a lack of consensus to include it. Vincent pointed out in his recent email that there didn't appear to yet be consensus about nautilus-actions with extra issues (possible integration into nautilus and perhaps instead being part of a power tool release suite that never got off the ground) making things a bit harder to understand. The remainder of the emails in the thread didn't seem to clarify much either (if it had only been your email about it, I would have considered it clarified, but there were other emails later that brought up more integration issues) -- but even more important than that, there were also a number of objections posted against its inclusion (in fact, more of them than I saw who seemed to be in favor). ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: GNOME Icon Theme 2.13.5[.1] AKA the HOLY CRAP, ICONS! release
On Tue, 2006-01-17 at 20:38 +, Richard Hughes wrote: On Tue, 2006-01-17 at 15:15 -0500, Rodney Dawes wrote: snip I plan to patch gnome-applets soon though, so that it uses the new names in gweather. snip So what's the easiest way for a maintainer to scan his src/ directory identifying the old names, and suggesting replacements? For instance, for g-p-m a script would be really handy that searched for gnome-dev-acadapter and suggested a replacement. There's no particularly easy way to check for icon names. Some of the names get passed in from libraries, or other pieces of code, as variables, some are defines, some are string literals. I think the simplest way, would be to patch GTK+, and have it check if the requested name is in the spec somehow, probably a hash table, and if not, then spew a warning. A lot of icon names that are in use, are seemingly quite random as well, which makes it even harder to determine by script if an icon name makes sense or not, since you can't just grep for things that you don't know about already. :) However, I am totally willing to help deal with questions about icons with regards to the spec, and how to improve things. So, if you can comprise a list of icons being used, and describe what they are being used for, and where, and send me e-mail asking for help, I'm sure we can move ahead in the right direction nicely. :) Or are we supposed to just reply on the compat symlinks? The compat symlinks are there so that applications won't break during the transition. Also, very few icon themes are actually ported currently, so I think relying on the compat links for the time being is not a bad thing entirely. -- dobey ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: GStreamer version for 2.14
Vincent/Glynn: On Mon, 2006-01-16 at 07:28 +0100, Vincent Untz wrote: + quite a few people were assuming that 0.10 was the plan for 2.14 and were totally unaware that 0.8 had even been on the plan. Ubuntu and Fedora development versions (i.e. the distros that Elijah checked or found out about) seem to both be headed towards 0.10. We're looking like GNOME 2.14 with GStreamer 0.10 is going to be the most likely candidate for the next version of JDS too, FWIW - although the community should do what's right for the community, since our release is still a way off so that we can factor in porting if necessary. Yes, I think it is most likely that we will go with GStreamer 0.10 with Sun GNOME 2.12 builds. On Solaris, we only ship a few applications that use GStreamer (totem, gnome-media and the mixer applet). All of these seem to be pretty much working with GStreamer 0.10 on Solaris, so I think that we will treat any regressions we find as bugs. Most of the regressions (such as libparanoia not yet working) don't matter to us since libparanoia doesn't work on Solaris anyway. And the benefits of 0.10 (such as the MP3 decoder plugin that does not break GPL licensing) really are big wins. Since, as Glynn says, our release is a ways off, we also just have more time to deal with any regressions we find. Note that to get gnome-media working with GStreamer 0.10 you have to use the latest gnome-media release and follow the steps in the README (basically run the script it points you towards). To get the mixer applet working, you have to build the mixer applet with the bugzilla patch in #326285. Brian ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: New modules in 2.14
On Tue, 2006-01-17 at 22:56 +, Gustavo J. A. M. Carneiro wrote: So, I'm going a bit off-topic here, but I'm curious: what are these metacity python bindings for? They wrap libmetacity-private. I think Johan wants to draw windows inside a scrolled window in Gazpacho GUI builder, and that library supposedly allows one to use metacity's rendering engine to immitate metacity frames. But I gues you already know this better than me :) That's all I know about the bindings and the library, I'm afraid. I hope this is not a problem?.. libmetacity-private is a library installed by a desktop module, hence it belongs in gnome-python-desktop, I think. These bindings were added before API/feature freeze. And I do expect to keep full control in the future of which bindings are added to gnome-python-desktop as long as they wrap libraries of desktop modules. Given the name libmetacity-private, I don't think it's a good idea to be shipping public bindings to it. I don't think you could rely on this library to remain API stable. Of course, Elijah would have a better idea of this. Perhaps the solution is to create a libmetacity that use functions people may need to use, and a libmetacity-private to do whatever it is doing now. --d -- Davyd Madeley http://www.davyd.id.au/ 08B0 341A 0B9B 08BB 2118 C060 2EDD BB4F 5191 6CDA ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: GNOME Icon Theme 2.13.5[.1] AKA the HOLY CRAP, ICONS! release
Perhaps this is a packaging issue? It certainly doesn't depend on that module here [1], or any machine I've ever installed it on before. And according to the source listing on cpan.org, it seems to only require XML::SAX or XML::Parser, which then also depend on other things, such as Storable, or dependencies provided by the perl source itself. -- dobey [1] perl-XML-Simple 2.14 on unstable SUSE/Novell packages Could be, all I can see in the Fedora Extras rpm changelog is - optional test module as build requirement perl(Tie::IxHash). I can probably just remove that build requirement, thanks for pointing that out. Ok, to finish this particular discussion, I have gotten icon-naming-utils and its dependencies in Fedora Core now. To start a new one: 2006-01-17 Jakub Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] * 16x16/places/folder-remote * 16x16/places/folder * 16x16/places/network-server * 16x16/places/network-workgroup * 16x16/places/user-desktop * 16x16/places/user-home * 16x16/places/user-trash * 16x16/status/user-trash-full: follow tango style guidelines more closely Are we silently switching to Tango here ? Matthias ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: GNOME Icon Theme 2.13.5[.1] AKA the HOLY CRAP, ICONS! release
On Tue, 2006-01-17 at 23:23 -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote: Are we silently switching to Tango here ? I wish, but no. Jakub is updating several of the icons to have a more modern look, by applying elements from the Tango Style Guide, to the gnome-icon-theme style icons. I've explicitly instructed him to keep the gnome and tango icons different. There are several reasons for this. There are licensing differences between Tango and g-i-t. We are trying very hard to get people from KDE and other desktops interested as well, and simply putting Tango icons in would only back up their arguments that it is heavily GNOME based. However, simply applying some of the bits of the Tango Style Guide, such as the lighter inner hint, palette choices, and the like, can improve the icons on one's desktop quite a bit. Andreas, who has been helping out with the Tango icons, and has helped out previously with GNOME icons, has even redrawn a couple of KDE icons, using the Tango Style Guide. Needless to say, they look amazing. But, if everyone thinks he should not update the GNOME icons, I'm sure we can revert back to the old, drab, incomplete, and unmaintained style. Frankly, I'm all for keeping my artist happy, though. -- dobey ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: GNOME Icon Theme 2.13.5[.1] AKA the HOLY CRAP, ICONS! release
On Tue, 2006-01-17 at 21:46 +0100, Emmanuele Bassi wrote: I was about to open a bug for it, but I'll mention this issue here anyway: the current gdict icon should be deprecated and deleted from the theme, since gnome-dictionary ships its own. Great. This is actually what we want to do with app icons. For things like gdict or gnome-terminal, it kind of makes sense to have generic icons, as little utilty applications like these, tend to be part of the desktop. But for things like Evolution, Epiphany, and Firefox, it is best to have a branded application icon, so it's easier to distinguish the items in menus, by means other than simply text. Also, I'd need some of the fine GNOME icon artists to give it a spin (I'm no icon artist, nor expert of Inkscape whatsoever, so the current icon[1] still kinda sucks). Hrmm. That icon looks like it's done a bit in the Tango style already. Did Andreas draw that? It's pretty nice icon, visually speaking. But, the metaphor is lacking. The connection between book and dictionary is loose, as there is no text or other symbolic imagery on the icon. We've been tring to come up with a better metaphor for dictionary, than simply book, but haven't come up with anything concrete yet. You're welcome to join #tango on freenode or mail the tango-artists list, and discuss possible solutions to the dictionary metaphor problem, so that maybe we can have an amazingly nice icon for the dictionary. I suggest the tango list and channel here, as standarized metaphors is also something we want to add to the naming spec, so that it may help artists create icon themes in the future, prevent icon ambiguity, and allow applications for various desktops and toolkits interoperate better on a design level. -- dobey ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: GNOME Icon Theme 2.13.5[.1] AKA the HOLY CRAP, ICONS! release
Le mardi 17 janvier 2006 à 16:42 -0500, Rodney Dawes a écrit : However, I am totally willing to help deal with questions about icons with regards to the spec, and how to improve things. So, if you can comprise a list of icons being used, and describe what they are being used for, and where, and send me e-mail asking for help, I'm sure we can move ahead in the right direction nicely. :) Oh, just thinking about this: could you take a look at the tons of icons in gnome-desktop/pixmaps/? Most of them are ugly and maybe we should just remove them all. I don't know what's best here... Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
