Re: Effective ways of getting individuals funded to work on ASF projects

[Ted Dunning]

I was in the peanut gallery when Tidelift approached the logging project.

To me, it looked like Tidelift wanted fairly significant service level 
guarantees for a very low cost and then wanted to monetize their position of 
having such guarantees.

Aside from whether or not the details were right, the overall shape seemed 
wrong to me. Long on guarantees and indemnification by the individuals signing 
on and short on benefits to the individuals or the project.

On 2022/02/27 22:11:26 Gary Gregory wrote:
> We just went through this with Log4j and decided that the Tidelift model
> was not compatible with Apache. Hopefully someone on our PMC can provide a
> recap.
> 
> Gary
> 
> On Sun, Feb 27, 2022, 17:06 Roman Shaposhnik  wrote:
> 
> > Hi!
> >
> > over the past couple of years there has been a number
> > of efforts trying to figure out effective ways of getting funded
> > for working on ASF projects as individuals and not employees
> > at companies building on top of these projects.
> >
> > Chris's recent experience is but one of them:
> > https://lists.apache.org/thread/momxgzzyq03lz54knvzhxm16r8j40vog
> >
> > My personal frustration with all these threads is that we never
> > seem to arrive at any actionable suggestions for how developers
> > like Chris can *easily* create these additional income streams.
> >
> > Rightfully, we at ASF basically say that it must be a 3d party issue
> > to solve. It very much is. The problem is that doing so one one-off
> > just perpetuates the logistical pain of setting up contracts, etc. etc.
> > This creates a pretty significant barrier and, as Chris's experience
> > would suggest it typically becomes too insurmountable for individual
> > developers.
> >
> > Sure, there have been interesting attempts to "hack the system"
> > and use things like GitCoin, BugMark and a few others to solve for
> > this "how do we get back to our open source roots when individuals,
> > not corporations were the economic agents around open source".
> > But I honestly don't know of any of them becoming viable either.
> > At least not so far.
> >
> > At the risk of tilting at windmills once again, I'd like to see if there's
> > enough interest to take a crack at this problem yet again.
> >
> > And in the spirit of "hacking the system" I'd like to suggest that we
> > focus on a 3d party solving it for us. In fact, I suggest we pick a
> > very particular 3d party -- TideLift
> >
> >
> > https://support.tidelift.com/hc/en-us/articles/4406293106324-Quickstart-guide
> >
> > Now, before you exclaim "who the heck appointed TideLift to solve it for
> > us?"
> > I'd be the first one to admit that I picked them because I know them
> > really well and I do think they are the closest to giving us some of the
> > answers.
> > But above all, I'm suggesting we look at TideLift because they seem to
> > be very much willing to work with us on actually changing their engagement
> > model to fit our needs. IOW, it is not like their rules are cast in stone
> > -- we can
> > assume they are malleable. If anyone knows of a similar 3d party -- let's
> > discuss
> > that too.
> >
> > If, however, there's a general consensus about seriously looking
> > at them as that 3d party -- I'd like to start collecting names of ASF
> > developers (and PMCs) who would be willing to participate in
> > a trial program with them of sorts and report back.
> >
> > If you have comments on anything above -- please reply in-thread.
> >
> > If you'd be interested in this trial -- you can either do that or just
> > reply to me personally.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Roman.
> >
> 

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Re: Apache Local Community (ALC) Next Steps

[Ted Dunning]

This ALC stuff looks like a way to have local meetups.

Why is all this organizational hierarchy needed?

Why not just have meetups?

On 2019/08/01 13:29:41, Swapnil M Mane  wrote: 
> Dear all,
> 
> Hope you are doing good.
> Thanks, everyone who shared their kind thoughts on ALC proposal [1].
> 
> As a next step, we have documented various information, which will help us
> in bringing ALC in action.
> 
> # 1. ALC home page
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/COMDEV/Apache+Local+Community+-+ALC
> 
> 
> This is the root wiki document for ALC and contains the following
> information
> -- About ALC
> -- ALC Roles and Responsibility
> -- How ALC Chapter will be formed
> -- Benefits of ALC
> -- Code of conduct
> -- Addition information
> -- Contact  ALC
> 
> # 2. ALC Resources
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/COMDEV/ALC+Resources
> 
> This document is used for collecting the information and resources
> (presentations, media, etc.) that will be helpful for ALC chapters.
> Currently, contain the following information
> -- Types of events organized by ALC Chapters
> -- Venue for the event
> -- Topics for the session
> 
> # 3. ALC Chapters
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/COMDEV/ALC+Chapters
> 
> This wiki contains all the ALC Chapters detail.
> 
> ## 3.1 ALC Indore
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/COMDEV/ALC+Indore
> 
> Each ALC Chapter will have its own wiki, which will contain details
> specific to that ALC Chapter. Since I am with Pranay Pandey starting the
> ALC Indore Chapter, thus created a wiki page for ALC Indore.
> Other chapters will also create their own wiki page.
> 
> ### 3.1.1 ALC Indore Events
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/COMDEV/ALC+Indore+Events
> 
> This document contains information about upcoming and past events organized
> by ALC Indore Chapter.
> 
> ### 3.1.2 ALC Indore Reports
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/COMDEV/ALC+Indore+Reports
> 
> The ALC Chapter shares the status report to the ALC Management Committee in
> every two months. This wiki contains these reports. The report includes
> details on the activities performed by the ALC Chapter and its impact.
> 
> # 4 Reports
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/COMDEV/Reports
> 
> This wiki contains the details of all the report shared to ALC Management
> Committee by ALC Chapters.
> 
> # 5 Organizational Hierarchy
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/COMDEV/Organizational+Hierarchy
> 
> This document details the Organizational Hierarchy structure for working of
> Apache Local Community.
> *Important Note* - This document is under review by Apache Community
> Development PMC and not finalized yet. The ComDev PMC will take the final
> decision on this.
> 
> So, here is the documented hierarchy managed in confluence.
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/COMDEV/Apache+Local+Community+-+ALC
> 
> Apache Local Community - ALC (Home page)
> | ALC Resources
> | ALC Chapters
>| ALC Indore
>   |  ALC Indore Events
>   |  ALC Indore Reports
>   | [other ALC Chapter will for same hierarchy as ALC
> Indore]
> | Reports
> | Organizational Hierarchy
> 
> 
> Please have a look at this and share your valuable thoughts.
> Please feel free to comments, we will be happy to incorporate your
> suggestions in the ALC.
> 
> [1] https://s.apache.org/t6nxd
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> Swapnil M Mane,
> www.apache.org
> 

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Re: Request for Participation in University of Cincinnati - Open Source Survey

[Ted Dunning]

Ironically, they *didn't* send me the apology mass email.

Maybe I had to opt out to get the last of the spam.



On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 9:10 AM Kevin A. McGrail  wrote:

> Yeah, I'm disappointed how they are handling this and would like to see the
> email they sent you after unsubscribing.
> --
> Kevin A. McGrail
> VP Fundraising, Apache Software Foundation
> Chair Emeritus Apache SpamAssassin Project
> https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmcgrail - 703.798.0171
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 11:57 AM Branko Čibej  wrote:
>
> > On 16.10.2018 20:24, Sharan Foga wrote:
> > > Hi Everyone
> > >
> > > Please see below for a message from some researchers from the
> University
> > of Cincinnati who are running a survey on participation in Open Source.
> The
> > survey is open to all Apache contributors and committers and the
> > researchers have said they make a donation to the ASF for completed
> > responses up to a maximum of $1000.
> > >
> > > Please feel free to circulate this message within your projects.
> >
> >
> > They decided to spam many of us using our personal @apache.org e-mails.
> > What's worse, they did it a second time today, *after I explicitly
> > unsubscribed from their list*.
> >
> > Their behaviour is completely unacceptable and I don't see why anyone
> > should spend their free time to encourage it.
> >
> > -- Brane
> >
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
> >
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSSION] Running another ASF Committer Diversity Survey

[Ted Dunning]

Great idea.




On Wed, Oct 3, 2018, 20:58 Myrle Krantz  wrote:

> Would it make sense to add a question about the form of a
> participant's contribution?  (ie, code, marketing, QA, UX, tech docs,
> logo, organizational, and I know I'm forgetting something important
> please forgive me)  I'd be interested in seeing in numbers how good we
> are at recognizing non-code contributions with committership.
>
>
>

Re: Update on logo hunt

[Ted Dunning]

This is very cool.


On Sun, Aug 26, 2018, 07:31 Daniel Gruno  wrote:

> On 08/26/2018 03:49 PM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
> > An important update:
> >   ALL TLPs are now covered, yay!
> >
> > There's a handful of podlings missing, hopefully we can get those in
> time.
> >
> > All in all, 205 projects are covered with high res logos now.
>
> It's now all live for a preview at:
> http://www.apache.org/logos/comdev-test/
>
> I'll get in touch with infra to set up the tooling ASF-side for this.
>
> With regards,
> Daniel
>
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>

Re: Update on logo hunt

[Ted Dunning]

Daniel,

Cool about the multiple versions. What are the instructions to the projects
for how to drop in multiple versions.

Is it $project-$version.$ext ?



On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 5:39 AM Daniel Gruno  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Logos are slowly ticking in and being processed.
> I have a mockup of a 'logo central' site working, which you can see at
> https://logos.humbedooh.com/ - it has all the images that are available
> on scalable formats (svg, eps, ai etc) with various versions available.
> Images are automatically processed from SVN every hour on the hour, so
> any new additions should show up within an hour.
>
> I'll work on adding a "how do I submit my logo" part of this as time
> permits. Hopefully this will spur some more logos being added :) And if
> enough traction, we can put this and the automated process on a comdev VM.
>
> With regards,
> Daniel.
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
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>
>

Re: Update on logo hunt

[Ted Dunning]

Daniel,

What about cases where there are multiple versions?

Some projects have wide and square versions. Some have monochrome. Some
have powered by versions.

What you have done so far is awesome.

What do you think about next steps?

On Fri, Aug 24, 2018, 07:39 Daniel Gruno  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Logos are slowly ticking in and being processed.
> I have a mockup of a 'logo central' site working, which you can see at
> https://logos.humbedooh.com/ - it has all the images that are available
> on scalable formats (svg, eps, ai etc) with various versions available.
> Images are automatically processed from SVN every hour on the hour, so
> any new additions should show up within an hour.
>
> I'll work on adding a "how do I submit my logo" part of this as time
> permits. Hopefully this will spur some more logos being added :) And if
> enough traction, we can put this and the automated process on a comdev VM.
>
> With regards,
> Daniel.
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
>
>

Re: Beam's recent community development work

[Ted Dunning]

Dang. I missed that.

Ross is exactly right here. GREAT idea.

I am going to push this all over.



On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 8:27 PM  wrote:

> There is one insight here that I particularly like and I believe helps me
> find a good compromise that I’ve struggled with for years. I’m a fan of CTR
> rather than RTC for committers. However, I recognize that a number of
> projects don’t share my views on this. I ***love*** your solution and will
> quote it in case people missed it because you said “As a minor point” – I
> think it is a key point:
>
>
>
> “As a minor point, we also changed our "review-then-commit" policy to
> require that *either* the reviewer or the author be a committer. Previously
> the reviewer had to be a committer. Rationale: if we trust someone as a
> committer, we should trust their choice of reviewer. This also helps the
> community, as it engages non-committers as reviewers.”
>
>
>
> I like your overall process, but I especially applaud this insight – thank
> you beam community.
>
>
>
> Ross
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Kenneth Knowles 
> Sent: Monday, July 2, 2018 4:47 PM
> To: dev 
> Cc: memb...@apache.org; dev@community.apache.org; Griselda Cuevas <
> g...@apache.org>
> Subject: Re: Beam's recent community development work
>
>
>
> Thanks for the guidance Ted,
>
>
>
> All of your points are well taken. I/we will definitely stay careful about
> phrasing encouragement emails and our guidelines.
>
>
>
> Kenn
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 30, 2018 at 8:45 AM Ted Dunning  <mailto:ted.dunn...@gmail.com> > wrote:
>
>
>
> Ken,
>
>
>
> This is really good.
>
>
>
> I would like to emphasize one nuance, however. That is that when you get
> to the committer consideration step, there is a strong Apache tradition
> that the actual decision about committer-ship is not communicated to the
> candidate to avoid disappointment or campaigning during the vote.
>
>
>
> What you have could veer close to that, but I think that what you actually
> have in mind is just fine. I think that there could be a few tweaks to your
> process to emphasize how your efforts are OK.
>
>
>
> 1) when you contact a person and mention committer progress, please
> emphasize that it is a bit more like "your efforts have been noticed and
> appreciated. More of that sort of effort is something that often leads to
> becoming a committer. That actual process is confidential, however, so you
> won't know if or when it happens unless you get an invitation to become a
> committer"
>
>
>
> 2) the part about "do you want to become one, do you want feedback?" is
> golden just the way it is.
>
>
>
> 3) you mention "committer guidelines". This can be dangerous if it gets
> viewed as an application form or committer status checklist. This is a hard
> problem because it helps the PMC to have a list of things that are
> considered good qualities of a committer. I recommend keeping this danger
> in mind when composing emails to candidate committers. Above all else, try
> to avoid having the equivalent of an application form.
>
>
>
> Overall, I think that your results speak for themselves. Well done.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 11:15 PM Kenneth Knowles  k...@google.com> > wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> The ASF board suggested that we (Beam) share some of what we've been doing
> for community development with dev@community.apache.org  dev@community.apache.org>  and memb...@apache.org  memb...@apache.org> . So here is a long description. I have included
> d...@beam.apache.org <mailto:d...@beam.apache.org>  because it is the
> subject, really, and this is & should be all public knowledge.
>
>
>
> We would love feedback! We based a lot of this on reading the community
> project site, and probably could have learned even more with more study.
>
>
>
> # Background
>
>
>
> We face two problems in our contributor/committer-base:
>
>
>
> 1. Not enough committers to review all the code being contributed, in part
> due to recent departure of a few committers
>
> 2. We want our contributor-base (hence committer-base) to be more spread
> across companies and backgrounds, for the usual Apache reasons. Our user
> base is not active and varied enough to make this automatic. One solution
> is to make the right software to get a varied user base, but that is a
> different thread :-) so instead we have to work hard to build our community
> around the software we have.
>
>
>
> # What we did
>
>
>
> ## Committer guidelines
>
>
>
> We published comm

Re: Beam's recent community development work

[Ted Dunning]

Ken,

This is really good.

I would like to emphasize one nuance, however. That is that when you get to
the committer consideration step, there is a strong Apache tradition that
the actual decision about committer-ship is not communicated to the
candidate to avoid disappointment or campaigning during the vote.

What you have could veer close to that, but I think that what you actually
have in mind is just fine. I think that there could be a few tweaks to your
process to emphasize how your efforts are OK.

1) when you contact a person and mention committer progress, please
emphasize that it is a bit more like "your efforts have been noticed and
appreciated. More of that sort of effort is something that often leads to
becoming a committer. That actual process is confidential, however, so you
won't know if or when it happens unless you get an invitation to become a
committer"

2) the part about "do you want to become one, do you want feedback?" is
golden just the way it is.

3) you mention "committer guidelines". This can be dangerous if it gets
viewed as an application form or committer status checklist. This is a hard
problem because it helps the PMC to have a list of things that are
considered good qualities of a committer. I recommend keeping this danger
in mind when composing emails to candidate committers. Above all else, try
to avoid having the equivalent of an application form.

Overall, I think that your results speak for themselves. Well done.



On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 11:15 PM Kenneth Knowles  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> The ASF board suggested that we (Beam) share some of what we've been doing
> for community development with dev@community.apache.org and
> memb...@apache.org. So here is a long description. I have included
> d...@beam.apache.org because it is the subject, really, and this is &
> should be all public knowledge.
>
> We would love feedback! We based a lot of this on reading the community
> project site, and probably could have learned even more with more study.
>
> # Background
>
> We face two problems in our contributor/committer-base:
>
> 1. Not enough committers to review all the code being contributed, in part
> due to recent departure of a few committers
> 2. We want our contributor-base (hence committer-base) to be more spread
> across companies and backgrounds, for the usual Apache reasons. Our user
> base is not active and varied enough to make this automatic. One solution
> is to make the right software to get a varied user base, but that is a
> different thread :-) so instead we have to work hard to build our community
> around the software we have.
>
> # What we did
>
> ## Committer guidelines
>
> We published committer guidelines [1] for transparency and as an
> invitation. We start by emphasizing that there are many kinds of
> contributions, not just code (we have committers from community
> development, tech writing, training, etc). Then we have three aspects:
>
> 1. ASF code of conduct
> 2. ASF committer responsibilities
> 3. Beam-specific committer responsibilities
>
> The best way to understand is to follow the link at the bottom of this
> email. The important part is that you shouldn't be proposing a committer
> for other reasons, and you shouldn't be blocking a committer for other
> reasons.
>
> ## Instead of just "[DISCUSS] Potential committer XYZ" we discuss every
> layer
>
> Gris (CC'd) outlined this: people go through these phases of relationship
> with our project:
>
> 1. aware of it
> 2. interested in it / checking it out
> 3. using it for real
> 4. first-time contributor
> 5. repeat contributor
> 6. committer
> 7. PMC
>
> As soon as we notice someone, like a user asking really deep questions, we
> invite discussion on private@ on how we can move them to the next level
> of engagement.
>
> ## Monthly cadence
>
> Every ~month, we call for new discussions and revisit ~all prior
> discussions. This way we do not forget to keep up this effort.
>
> ## Individual discussions
>
> For each person we have a separate thread on private@. This ensures we
> have quality focused discussions that lead to feedback. In collective
> discussions that we used to do, we often didn't really come up with
> actionable feedback and ended up not even contacting potential committers
> to encourage them. And consensus was much less clear.
>
> ## Feedback!
>
> If someone is brought up for a discussion, that means they got enough
> attention that we hope to engage them more. But unsolicited feedback is
> never a good idea. For a potential committer, we did this:
>
> 1. Send an email saying something like "you were discussed as a potential
> committer - do you want to become one? do you want feedback?"
> 2. If they say yes (so far everyone) we send a few bullet points from the
> discussion and *most important* tie each bullet to the committer
> guidelines. If we have no feedback about which guidelines were a concern,
> that is a red flag that we are being driven by bias.
>
> We saw a *very* 

Re: Feedback on the booth at Apache EU Roadshow + FOSS Backstage last week

[Ted Dunning]

I was only there for buzzwords, not the foss backstage event.

The lounge format was congenial, but I feel like it put Apache off in a
corner. It seemed like Apache folk were comfortable to stay there rather
than wander the event and connect outside of our small corner.

One thing that I have done in previous events to bring crowds in is to find
out which of our team could play and stock a booth with some guitars (and
mandolins) and schedule times for jam sessions. Works better acoustic and
you have to be very careful with security for the instruments, but it
brings people in. Some people come to listen. Some to play. I typically
print up some fun folk songs that people can sight-read or fake. The
atmosphere is very nice. Obviously, you need to get people who can play to
volunteer (Bertrand?).

Another thing that can be awesome is book signings. O'Reilly does it by
having a very limited number allowed in line. At MapR, we typically have
200-300 books on hand. Either way, the point is not the books. The point is
to talk to everybody in line, both as you sign, but even more as the people
are in line. This is hard to pull off well and it requires a line boss to
get corral the volunteers into actually working the line. The level of
effort is high, but the impact can be huge if you really want to draw.



On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 10:10 AM Bertrand Delacretaz 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Sharan asked for feedback, here's my random thoughts:
>
> I liked the lounge format better than a booth, it was a nice quiet
> place during the conference.
>
> The free ice cream was very popular, we should just have had a big
> "courtesy of the ASF" sign on top of it. The small ice cream size was
> perfect IMO.
>
> I don't think we applied the "you need to talk to us to get ice cream"
> rule, and it wouldn't have been practical IMO given the place's
> layout. But it wasn't a problem, IMO.
>
> Thanks to all involved in making this happen!
>
> -Bertrand
>
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>
>

Re: [PROPOSAL] Setting up an official ASF swag store

[Ted Dunning]

On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 4:04 PM, David Nalley  wrote:

> 
> The folks with high quality stuff have historically (~10 years ago)
> required huge minimum orders.
>

Not so much any more. I have gotten very nice stickers from Stickermule.
Their minimum quantity is 50 and for small stickers that is about $57 for a
net price of under $2 / sticker inclusive of shipping. At 1000 stickers,
this price is down around a quarter per sticker.

https://www.stickermule.com/products/die-cut-stickers

Re: [PROPOSAL] Setting up an official ASF swag store

[Ted Dunning]

Speaking as somebody who has caused to be printed and given away bunches of
Apache project logo stickers, I don't see much market that we are taking
away. When I give away logo stickers, I tend to buy at least hundreds of
them so the Apache store wouldn't affect that. But there are lots of times
when I don't want to go through the hassle of dealing with that many
stickers and so I would be thrilled to be able to drop ship a few logo
stickers or t-shirts.

But seriously, we are talking at most hundreds of dollars in displaced
profit. IF this were a serious business opportunity, there would be people
doing it. Only companies like red bubble or stickermule are in the business
and they are only in it because there are gazillions of different things
that people want to print, not because ASF logos are a market.

IF somebody wants to do the setup work, that sounds great to me!


On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 3:34 PM, Chris Mattmann  wrote:

> Personally, I would worry about having an official ASF licensed store in
> this sense, for precisely
> the reason cited below - that it would remove market opportunity for
> downstream ASF $commercial
> entities, big or small. That said, I don't have the energy, nor desire to
> contribute to, or block this, so
> consider this simply my opinion with my ASF member hat on.
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> On 3/4/18, 3:28 PM, "Rich Bowen"  wrote:
>
> We have in the past been reluctant to have an official stoee because it
> removed business opportunities from others who want to run a store.
>
> That said, nobody is, and the attempts to do so in the past haven't
> amounted to much. And I'd like a place to replace my Apache members
> tshirt
> which is falling apart.
>
> So, sure, if someone is going to do the work to make this happen, go
> for
> it.
>
> When we set up https://www.zazzle.com/featherwear I was surprised by
> how
> much work was required to set up each product - most of which have now
> been
> removed because they were classic feather logo.
>
> On Sun, Mar 4, 2018, 15:20 Mark Thomas  wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'd like to propose setting up an official ASF swag store. I recently
> > came across RedBubble [1] who produce stuff through geographically
> > distributed agents so the post costs remain reasonable world-wide.
> >
> > My thinking is to do this with the logos for as many ASF projects as
> > possible and for as many of the products that RedBubble offer as
> possible.
> >
> > These are the prices[2], excluding shipping and mark-up. The standard
> > mark-up is 20% which I propose we use with all of this being passed
> to
> > the ASF.
> >
> > The plan, assuming there is general support, would be:
> >
> > - Set up the account and figure out all the admin side of things
> > - Pick a project to start with to test things out
> > - Email all PMCs to
> >   - inform them of the store
> >   - ask them to add a link to it on their web-sites
> >   - ask them to provide logo(s) in suitable resolutions
> > - Upload logos for those PMCs that provide them
> > - Work through the logos for the PMCs that don't in slower time
> >
> > I need to run this past a few other folks as well. My intention is to
> > point them to this thread and ask for feedback.
> >
> > I don't intend this to replace any stores committers, PMCs, community
> > members etc. are currently running. I view it more as a way of
> providing
> > a default selection of swag for as many projects as possible.
> >
> > Thoughts? Feedback?
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> >
> > [1] https://www.redbubble.com/
> > []2 https://help.redbubble.com/hc/en-us/articles/206409096
> >
> > 
> -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
>
>

Re: [PROPOSAL] Setting up an official ASF swag store

[Ted Dunning]

I think a default swag source would be grand if you can avoid minimums and
setup fees. My guess from the high price of the stickers compared to other
sources such as Stickermule that charge a setup is that redbubble is eating
the difference.



On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 12:19 PM, Mark Thomas  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'd like to propose setting up an official ASF swag store. I recently
> came across RedBubble [1] who produce stuff through geographically
> distributed agents so the post costs remain reasonable world-wide.
>
> My thinking is to do this with the logos for as many ASF projects as
> possible and for as many of the products that RedBubble offer as possible.
>
> These are the prices[2], excluding shipping and mark-up. The standard
> mark-up is 20% which I propose we use with all of this being passed to
> the ASF.
>
> The plan, assuming there is general support, would be:
>
> - Set up the account and figure out all the admin side of things
> - Pick a project to start with to test things out
> - Email all PMCs to
>   - inform them of the store
>   - ask them to add a link to it on their web-sites
>   - ask them to provide logo(s) in suitable resolutions
> - Upload logos for those PMCs that provide them
> - Work through the logos for the PMCs that don't in slower time
>
> I need to run this past a few other folks as well. My intention is to
> point them to this thread and ask for feedback.
>
> I don't intend this to replace any stores committers, PMCs, community
> members etc. are currently running. I view it more as a way of providing
> a default selection of swag for as many projects as possible.
>
> Thoughts? Feedback?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> [1] https://www.redbubble.com/
> []2 https://help.redbubble.com/hc/en-us/articles/206409096
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
>
>

Re: I wish to contribute.

[Ted Dunning]

Thomas,

That would be fantastic. I lived a long time in New Mexico and the
Chiricahua mountains and the Mogollon rim are some of the most special
places in the world for me as well.

The path with ASF typically starts with contributions to a project of
special interest to you. That project typically will recognize sustained
contributions by naming you as a committer. That is an honor, but it also
typically makes contribution easier logistically.

It is actually common for people to contribute to multiple projects
although many focus on just one.

Projects will often make all new committers members of the project
management committee (PMC) but other projects wait a bit to make sure that
you work well with others and seem to have the project's well being in mind.

Every year, there is an election held to decide who to invite to become a
member of Apache. These members elect the board to directors and are
actually the stockholders of the underlying charitable corporation for ASF.

One of the coolest things about the ASF is that you can participate from
anywhere that you happen to have an internet connection. There are lots of
provisions made to accommodate time zones and other aspects of multiple
locations.

If you want to reach me off-line by email, I would be happy to talk more
about what your interests are and what projects at ASF might match your
interests.

You can reach me at tdunn...@apache.org




On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 8:02 AM, Thomas Red-Cloud <
thomas.red.cl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi, My name is Thomas Red-Cloud. I am as the name suggest a Native
> American, from the Apache Chiricahua tribe of San Carlos Band. I am also a
> software engineer, 20 years. I have made the decision to start
> contributing, and express interest of becoming a member of the ASF which
> honors my tribe. I have seen enough in the wild of SE to know that by
> contributing, I will help pave the way for other engineers to innovate.
>
> Best Regards,
> Thomas
>

Re: Apache Community Card Volunteers Needed

[Ted Dunning]

I just confirmed that uploading the standard PDF card design works on MOO.
You have to shift the design a little for Euro sized cards.



On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 9:33 AM, Sharan Foga  wrote:

> Hi Lefty
>
> Thanks for offering to help test. The link is in my other thread with
> subject line link to platform for ordering cards.
>
> I will be travelling most of today so sorry cant provide you with more info
> at the moment.
>
> Branko - When I  get the chance I  will try and follow up on your payment
> problem
>
> Thanks
> Sharan
>
>
> On 17 Nov 2017 7:12 am, "Lefty Leverenz"  wrote:
>
> I'd like to test this too.  What's the link to the platform?
>
> -- Lefty Leverenz
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 7:57 PM, Branko Čibej  wrote:
>
> > On 15.11.2017 16:39, Sharan Foga wrote:
> > > Hi Everyone
> > >
> > > I am looking for a few volunteers to help me test the new Apache
> > Community Card ordering platform. As a reminder the business card format
> > looks like this:
> > >
> > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/download/
> > attachments/74685392/Apache%20Community%20Card%20-%20generic.pdf?api=v2
> > >
> > > If you would like to order business cards based on this format then
> > please respond to this thread and I'll send you out a link to the
> platform.
> > Ideally I would like to get feedback on the process, ease of use and any
> > problems encountered.
> > >
> > > Once we're happy that everything is working properly, we can
> communicate
> > it on a larger scale to all our committers and projects.
> >
> > I tried to order business cards from the EU site. Editing the card
> > template is nice. However ... MOO doesn't want to accept my credit card.
> > That's kind of ... strange? ... as I haven't had that problem anywhere
> > else.
> >
> > -- Brane
> >
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
> >
> >
>

Re: Apache Community Business Cards

[Ted Dunning]

I just took Sally's template and reworked it slightly and stored it back
into 6 different formats so that people might be able to edit it more
easily.

The changes I made were to use the vector format of the logo and change the
type face slightly to be a more commonly available one (which looks
essentially the same).

I stored the files in PSD, AI, PDF, SVG and PNG (@600 dpi and 1200dpi).

I find, however, that I can't edit the comdev wiki. Can somebody enable
that?



On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 4:23 AM, Sharan Foga  wrote:

> Hi PJ
>
> The mailing list doesn't let attachments through so I'd suggest you load
> your file onto the wiki Business Cards page and include a link to it.
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/COMDEV/Community
> +Business+Cards
>
> Thanks
> Sharan
>
>
> On 30/10/17 10:48, Piergiorgio Lucidi wrote:
>
>> If you want, I have just created a template on Moo, see the attachment
>> for taking a look at this simple template.
>>
>> Please let me know what you think.
>> Thanks.
>>
>> PJ
>>
>>
>> 2017-10-30 9:20 GMT+01:00 Isabel Drost-Fromm  isa...@apache.org>>:
>>
>> You should talk to Sally, I believe she already has templates that
>> can be used.
>>
>> Isabel
>> --
>> Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android-Gerät mit K-9 Mail gesendet.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Piergiorgio Lucidi
>> Open Source Evangelist and Enterprise Information Management Specialist
>> Mentor / PMC Member / Committer @ Apache Software Foundation
>> Community Star / Wiki Gardener / Global Forum Moderator @ Alfresco
>> Author and Technical Reviewer @ Packt Publishing
>> Technical Advisory Group Member @ Microsoft
>> Top Community Contributor @ Crafter
>> Project Leader / Committer @ JBoss
>> https://www.open4dev.com 
>>
>>
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
>>
>
>

Re: Apache Community Business Cards

[Ted Dunning]

Sharan,

I can fix that for you, if you like.

Send me the PSD file off-list.



On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 2:50 AM, Sharan Foga  wrote:

> Thanks Isabel!
>
> Sally has sent me the psd template but I'm having problems opening it in
> the Gimp (it's giving an unsupported colour mode CMYK error) so will need
> to look into that. In the meantime I can load the template onto the wiki so
> others can take a look to and try too.
>
> Thanks
> Sharan
>
>
> On 2017-10-30 09:20, Isabel Drost-Fromm  wrote:
> > You should talk to Sally, I believe she already has templates that can
> be used.
> >
> > Isabel
> > --
> > Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android-Gerät mit K-9 Mail gesendet.
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
>
>

Re: Signing contracts?

[Ted Dunning]

On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 3:34 PM, sebb  wrote:

> ...
> > Let me just point out that the reason that you are a VP is *exactly* to
> be
> > signing for the ASF.
> >
> > Every time you as a PMC chair sign off on a release, you are signing for
> > the entire ASF.
> >
> > It is a *big* deal.
>
> Huh?
>
> I thought the PMC was collectively responsible for voting on a release.
> As I understood it, the chair has a simple binding vote like all the
> rest of the PMC.
>
> I have never known a chair to perform a special sign-off on a release.
>

I don't think that a special sign-off is required, but the authority of the
chair is required.

Re: Signing contracts?

[Ted Dunning]

On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 12:42 PM, Myrle Krantz  wrote:

> > Depending on what the contract binds the ASF to, I'd expect either VP,
> > Conferences or VP, ComDev to sign.
>
> Thank you for the details Shane.
>
> In addition to the legal/technical aspects, I don't really feel I have
> a *moral* right to sign anything for the ASF.  Christofer -- please
> don't send this to me.
>


Let me just point out that the reason that you are a VP is *exactly* to be
signing for the ASF.

Every time you as a PMC chair sign off on a release, you are signing for
the entire ASF.

It is a *big* deal.

Re: Introducing code owners

[Ted Dunning]

I think that it is great for projects to use multiple mechanisms to ensure
quick review. This is a fine mechanism.



On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 3:39 PM, Phil Sorber  wrote:

> Aside from the strong "owner" language, do you think this is a bad idea?
> Seems like picking some default reviewers to look at some code they are
> both motivated to review and likely familiar with is generally a good idea.
> Would it be different if it were called "Potentially Interested Parties" or
> similar?
>
> On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 7:39 AM Shane Curcuru  wrote:
>
> > P. Taylor Goetz wrote on 7/7/17 8:48 AM:
> > >> On Jul 7, 2017, at 6:59 AM, Erik Weber  wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> fre. 7. jul. 2017 kl. 10.19 skrev Greg Stein :
> > >>>
> > >>> Ugh. I suggest that ComDev write up some text explaining why this is
> a
> > >>> horrible idea :-(
> > >>>
> > >>> https://github.com/blog/2392-introducing-code-owners
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> Pardon my ignorance, but why is it a horrible idea?
> > >
> > > It would imply that some individuals have more authority, ownership,
> > etc. than others. In Apache projects all committers and PMC members are
> > equal.
> > >
> > > -Taylor
> >
> > To clarify: This is a bad idea... for *Apache* projects, or
> > community-led projects.  It may be a fine idea for either hierarchical
> > projects (i.e. traditional corporate ones) or for single-maintainer /
> > BDFL run projects.  So I'm not surprised Github added it, and I'll bet
> > some non-community style projects will think this is a great idea.
> >
> > I think "CODEOWNERS" is too strong a term; they should have been more
> > descriptive with CODEREVIEWERS or the like, since these aren't
> > necessarily owners of a file or project.  That might be useful feedback
> > for github, but since they've already rolled it out, I doubt they'd
> > change it.
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > - Shane
> >   https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/resources
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
> >
> >
>

Re: Does anyone actively maintain PMC RDF files?

[Ted Dunning]

On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 7:14 AM, Shane Curcuru  wrote:

>
>   !-- This should be taken from the PMC board resolution -->
>
> It seems simple for Whimsy to store a single JSON of all TLPs and their
> charters by directly sucking it out of passed board resolutions as part
> of the finalization of a board agenda after the meeting.
>
> Is there any interest in reducing cruft in projects.a.o, or at least
> better documenting the data flow between websites here?


Having whimsy manage things is a great idea. Having a single JSON is OK if
no collisions are expected on updates. Having per project JSON would be
better if collisions are expected.

Re: Trouble child OpenOffice

[Ted Dunning]

On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 2:08 PM, Raphael Bircher 
wrote:

> The challenge that is unique to OpenOffice as you are well aware is
>> the fact that
>> it is both a product and a project.
>>
>
> It's a bit provocative. What would happened if we drop the product, but
> don't retire as a project.


Could this go to the OO lists?

Re: Trouble child OpenOffice

[Ted Dunning]

Raphael,

Why don't you get some folks together and start a company that solicits
donations to support OO development and QA work?



On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 8:45 PM, Dave Fisher  wrote:

> Hi Raphael,
>
> Not sure why you aren't trying this conversation on the OpenOffice
> Developer list.
>
> It is true there is a lack of c++ devs and QA. We were too dependent on
> IBM. You had volunteered to do Windows builds, but had other considerations?
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Apr 19, 2017, at 1:19 PM, Raphael Bircher 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi people
> >
> > I want to raise a question here. I know, we have to solve our problems
> our self, but maybe here are people with ideas. OpenOffice has a big
> community problem. The community was simply melted away in the last year.
> We have at the moment no Company who offer devs. And the rest of the
> community fights the absolutely urgent issues. There was already a
> discussion about retirement, it was refused. But this doesn't mean we are
> out of the danger zone.
> >
> > The sweet part of this story is our user base. We have 100'000 Downloads
> EVERY single DAY. I mean, this is crazy. We have really loyal users. We get
> also frequently messages from user who just want to say "thank you".
> >
> > The sad thing about this is, they have actually no chance to do
> something for the program. They are looked out. Remember, they are normal
> users, they are no developers. They are typically private users or small
> companies. But imagine what happened if only a small part of our users pay
> 20$.
> >
> > We really need devs and we need skilled one, because OpenOffice is
> challenging for programmers. Companies with a load of money has a easy way
> to influence an Apache project. Simply pay a developer, that's it. But
> people without big pocket are simply looked out. (if they have no
> programmer skills) That's not fair!
> >
> > How to solve this problem? Thanks a load.
> >
> > Regards Raphael
> >
> > --
> > My introduction https://youtu.be/Ln4vly5sxYU
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
> >
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
>
>

Re: Contribute as a company

[Ted Dunning]

Well, articles like that and the related FUD are one of the major reasons
why Apache takes the "individuals do the work" tack.

Quite frankly, if you really intend to share, then moaning when others take
you at your word is pretty sad.

Better to share with open hands. Or don't. Make up your mind about which
you want and then throw yourself into it whole-heartedly. Apache tries to
encourage that by insisting on individualism and thereby selecting for
passion (even in the presence of salaries).






On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 6:54 PM, William Li 
wrote:

> Thanks for all your replies. I ran into some blog posts which compared
> different company contributions, for example like this one:
> http://readwrite.com/2013/11/14/hadoops-biggest-vendors-
> may-contribute-least-to-its-development/.
>
> I don't know how they ran the counts. That’s the reason why I was
> wondering.
>
> Cheers!
>
> On 2017-04-18 14:34 (-0700), "William Li"
> wrote:
> > Hi - I'm new and my company is interested to have developers to
> contribute to a couple of apache open source projects. Could any one please
> tell me how to register contributors under a specific company name?
> >
> > I searched through the general information blogs but couldn't find
> anything.
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > William
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
> >
> >
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
>
>

Re: Vetoes for New Committers??

[Ted Dunning]

Niclas,

I never presented an argument in favor of *using* a veto.  I presented an
argument in favor of *having* a veto to potentially use.

The possibility of a veto encourages consensus building before the decision
is recorded.

I personally think that vetoes should almost never happen because any
veto-worthy issue is brought out and resolved in discussion ahead of time.


On Tue, Apr 4, 2017 at 4:26 PM, Niclas Hedhman <hedh...@gmail.com> wrote:

> But Ted, how does the minority regain the "minority's voice heard" simply
> by veto of new members? If they place unreasonable vetoes and hope that
> over time the majority will "evaporate" seems unproductive as well.
>
> Vetoes can become very contentious, and I don't really buy the arguments
> presented in favor of using it. To me a negative use is a BDFL-type
> leader/founder preventing active contributors from getting a say in a
> project.
>
> The raised problem of community disharmony is not served with vetoes,
> AFAICT.
>
>
>
> On Apr 4, 2017 14:06, "Ted Dunning" <ted.dunn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I hear it as the voice of (occasionally bitter) experience.
>
> It could easily be my own voice as well. I have found in my own limited
> experience that communities who pay attention to minority voices to be far
> better at producing real consensus. I have also found that people with a
> majority-rules opinion often change their opinion to minority-must-be-heard
> when they are no longer in the majority. That matches what Joe said pretty
> closely.
>
> His phrasing might not be what I would use, but his experience seems to
> match mine quite closely.
>
> I also really don't see how a valid statement of long experience is FUD. I
> certainly see a healthy dose of FUD in my day job from competitors and
> Joe's statement is pretty different.
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 10:36 PM, Pierre Smits <pierre.sm...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > That borders on FUD.
> >
> > Op di 4 apr. 2017 om 05:03 schreef Joseph Schaefer
> > <joe_schae...@yahoo.com.invalid>
> >
> > > Trust me niclas, you would be singing a very different tune if you
> > > believed something like that were happening in a project you were
> working
> > > on and you were a member of the minority powerless to put a halt to it.
> >
> >
>

Re: Vetoes for New Committers??

[Ted Dunning]

I hear it as the voice of (occasionally bitter) experience.

It could easily be my own voice as well. I have found in my own limited
experience that communities who pay attention to minority voices to be far
better at producing real consensus. I have also found that people with a
majority-rules opinion often change their opinion to minority-must-be-heard
when they are no longer in the majority. That matches what Joe said pretty
closely.

His phrasing might not be what I would use, but his experience seems to
match mine quite closely.

I also really don't see how a valid statement of long experience is FUD. I
certainly see a healthy dose of FUD in my day job from competitors and
Joe's statement is pretty different.


On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 10:36 PM, Pierre Smits 
wrote:

> That borders on FUD.
>
> Op di 4 apr. 2017 om 05:03 schreef Joseph Schaefer
> 
>
> > Trust me niclas, you would be singing a very different tune if you
> > believed something like that were happening in a project you were working
> > on and you were a member of the minority powerless to put a halt to it.
>
>

Re: Using Solr/Lucene to provide our own site search?

[Ted Dunning]

Sounds like a roadmap more than a focus, but otherwise good.

On Mar 29, 2017 6:46 AM, "Shane Curcuru"  wrote:

> Wow, so there are folks interested!  Great discussion, and good point:
> projects that span projects or are working on broader community aspects
> need clear definitions to keep disparate volunteers focused.
>
> There are two things *I* would be interested in helping with:
>
>
> 1- (Small concept) Super easy to use and maintain search widget and
> portal for apache.org and community.a.o sites, focused on helping
> newcomers find their way to the right "how do I do X" pages.  Value:
> Make ComDev efforts more useful by ensuring new users - who might not
> know what terminology we use, or where our docs are traditionally stored
> - to find the how to information they need.
>
> In terms of structure: it feels like there might be three general kinds
> of people searching on a.o/c.a.o:
>
> - General information about Apache (what it is, structure, donate, etc.)
> - How To information, like where SVN is, how to change websites, where
> different email lists are, etc.
> - Project information: either about a specific project, or more likely
> "Which projects might I want to contribute to".
>
>
> 2- (Big concept) Creating a simple, drop-in, Apache branded search
> widget that we encourage projects to consider adopting on their
> homepages.  Value: better search for individual project's users; plus
> showcasing some cross-project links and interest.
>
> Obviously, there are several existing setups that provide a lot of this
> functionality already (more than I realized).  But it would be really
> nice to have a solution that is:
>
> -- Super easy to drop into any existing site's design.
> Maven/Forrest/ghpages style sites would be the obvious targets.  (Do we
> have stats as to how many projects use each site builder tool?)
>
> -- Branded (primarily) as an Apache Lucene/Solr powered search tool.
> The Lucidworks site looks pretty powerful, and does cross-project stuff,
> but for me, the interest is providing something that is primarily
> powered by Apache tools (even if it uses someone's hosting or extra
> code, as a secondary thing).
>
> The search results/refinement pages in particular should match Apache
> site designs in general.  The Google custom search results are kinda
> ugly, now that I look at them.  The Lucidworks site is nice, but if
> we're going to feature this prominently, it would be nice to use Apache
> site design, with a text note "powered by LucidWorks Fusion, more
> details here" or the like.
>
> -- Maintenance documented.  ComDev already has a lot of code this PMC
> owns, and since we're not focused on code daily, we need to ensure
> whatever maintenance is easy to do.
>
>
> Is that a good focus for now?
>
> - Shane
>
>
> --
>
> - Shane
>   https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/resources
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
>
>

Re: Profile photos and ASF values

[Ted Dunning]

Arijit,

I agree that the symbol can have many meanings and that it is a modern
tragedy that symbols with good meanings have been used for evil.

I don't think it implies that any kind of heritage or culture has to be
lost here.

I would suggest that you consider people who see your emails without your
explanations. There is thus a significant likelihood of unfortunate
misunderstanding without your intent.

The situation would be the same if a greeting that includes a blessing in
one language is an insult in another, second, language. Is it pragmatically
a good idea to continue to use the greeting if you are meeting with many
speakers of the second language? You could argue you mean no harm and you
can argue that the literal meaning of what you say in the language you
using is beneficent, but you cannot argue that many people will
misunderstand you and be offended. If that is not your intent, you have
failed to communicate well.

So it is with symbols that have different meanings in the culture (or
cultures) you are communicating with. People will misunderstand you. If
your intent is for them to understand you, then you will not succeed as
well as you might.





On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 10:13 PM, ARIJIT DAS <arijit.mcse...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>  Please note Swastika is an ancient symbol of Hindus in India...Hitler used
> it no way implies that the symbol is improper...If you go through our Vedas
> and other mythologies you will find it symbolizes the knowledge and
> power...and still today danish air force also uses this symbol.India has
> one of the richest culture and heritage in the world.Many people has used
> manything of our culture and heritage in many ways for many purpose some
> are good some are bad.Why will we give up something which symbolizes
> actually good in our culture? World leaders should learn the lesson from
> WW2 from Hiroshima Nagasaki from adverse effects of colonization from
> exploitation of poor.Mere opposing a symbol will add any value to mankind?
>
> On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 10:30 AM, P. Taylor Goetz <ptgo...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > +1 for Ted's approach.
> >
> > I'm young in terms of ASF years, but I've found it to be very apolitical.
> > Recently it's actually been a refreshing departure from what seems like
> an
> > avalanche. It seems most people here seem to check their personal beliefs
> > at the door.
> >
> > My guess is that it is a case of innocence, but a follow up with
> > information about cultural sensitivities seems prudent.
> >
> > -Taylor
> >
> > > On Jan 31, 2017, at 7:14 PM, Niclas Hedhman <nic...@hedhman.org>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > As Ted pointed out, it is an ancient symbol found in most Far East
> > > mythology and the Hindu religion. "Out here" you will find it quite
> > often,
> > > on shops, temples and business cards. It doesn't "carry weight" unless
> it
> > > comes in black on white, with the Nazi proportions of widths. The Nazi
> > one
> > > was also at an angle.
> > >
> > > We all know that in this instance, there is no malignant intent, and
> > should
> > > not require any action.
> > >
> > > And we have not had any case of "red and black" and "something needs to
> > be
> > > said" as far as I know.
> > >
> > > But the 'solution' is relatively simple; ASF is a non-political
> > > organization, and expression of political views (such as showing
> > political
> > > allegiance, berating political figures, commenting on political
> activity,
> > > and so on) is not acceptable, regardless if that is a hate organization
> > > like the Nazis or more moderate political statements that many may
> agree
> > > with, say recent elections in the world or outbreaks of war. We should
> > not
> > > be involved, I think we are even obliged by Law to not be involved.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > > Niclas
> > >
> > >> On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 7:58 AM, Andrew Palumbo <ap@outlook.com>
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I am pretty new around here and don't know if this is a more private
> > room
> > >> for ASF members .. but my .02:  of it is in red and black, then
> > something
> > >> needs to be said.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>  Original message 
> > >> From: Ted Dunning <ted.dunn...@gmail.com>
> > >> Date: 01/31/2017 3:50 PM (GMT-08:00)
>

Re: Profile photos and ASF values

[Ted Dunning]

It's not in red and black and the poster has a name which makes the
Hindu/Jain/Buddhist sense more likely.

I sent a private note with a question asking if they know the unfortunate
associations that their readers are likely to have. I think that just
talking quietly about these issues is the best choice (usually).





On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 3:58 PM, Andrew Palumbo <ap@outlook.com> wrote:

> I am pretty new around here and don't know if this is a more private room
> for ASF members .. but my .02:  of it is in red and black, then something
> needs to be said.
>
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
>
>
> ---- Original message 
> From: Ted Dunning <ted.dunn...@gmail.com>
> Date: 01/31/2017 3:50 PM (GMT-08:00)
> To: dev@community.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Profile photos and ASF values
>
> Yeah... I twitched when I saw that.
>
> My suspicion is that this is being used in the ancient, pre-nazi sense.
>
> It is hard to believe that somebody is ignorant of the impact it must have
> on some readers.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 3:47 PM, Christopher <ctubb...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > It is surprising to me that a certain individual participant in ASF
> forums
> > seems to be using a swastika as their Google profile photo. The impact of
> > this is that ASF users which use GMail to interact with the mailing
> lists,
> > are presented with this swastika whenever reading or interacting with ASF
> > forums using GMail.
> >
> > To be clear, this symbol can have alternate meanings, and it may not be
> > intentionally being used as Nazi symbol. Additionally, even if this
> > individual holds to certain ideologies which may be antithetical to ASF
> > community inclusive values, they may act entirely professional and in
> > accordance with ASF code of conduct on Apache forums. So, I don't want to
> > imply that the profile photo is indicative of their ASF interactions...
> it
> > may be an entirely separate thing.
> >
> > My main inquiry here is to question whether or not there is a concern,
> > because the use of such profile photos may actually have consequences of
> > deterring potential new committers, because Apache may be indicted by
> > association.
> >
> > Is there something we wish to do about this? Is it a non-issue? I really
> > don't know. All I know, is my gut tells me that I'm bothered when I see
> it
> > (I use GMail). But, I don't want to overreact, or start a witch hunt. I'm
> > genuinely curious if this is something we want to address at all.
> >
> > If the profile photo is used on ASF infrastructure (JIRA, affiliated as a
> > member of the Apache org on GitHub, etc.), then I think we probably do
> want
> > to address it in the Code of Conduct. However, unrelated services like
> > Google profile photos... that may not be something we want to address,
> > because the web mail client users use is not related to ASF services
> (even
> > if it were know for user that it impacted ASF community by deterring
> > potential new community members).
> >
> > In any case, I don't raise this issue to demean the individual whose
> > profile photo came to my attention... this is not an attack on them.
> Again,
> > this is not a witch hunt.
> > --
> > Christopher
> >
>

Re: Profile photos and ASF values

[Ted Dunning]

Yeah... I twitched when I saw that.

My suspicion is that this is being used in the ancient, pre-nazi sense.

It is hard to believe that somebody is ignorant of the impact it must have
on some readers.



On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 3:47 PM, Christopher  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> It is surprising to me that a certain individual participant in ASF forums
> seems to be using a swastika as their Google profile photo. The impact of
> this is that ASF users which use GMail to interact with the mailing lists,
> are presented with this swastika whenever reading or interacting with ASF
> forums using GMail.
>
> To be clear, this symbol can have alternate meanings, and it may not be
> intentionally being used as Nazi symbol. Additionally, even if this
> individual holds to certain ideologies which may be antithetical to ASF
> community inclusive values, they may act entirely professional and in
> accordance with ASF code of conduct on Apache forums. So, I don't want to
> imply that the profile photo is indicative of their ASF interactions... it
> may be an entirely separate thing.
>
> My main inquiry here is to question whether or not there is a concern,
> because the use of such profile photos may actually have consequences of
> deterring potential new committers, because Apache may be indicted by
> association.
>
> Is there something we wish to do about this? Is it a non-issue? I really
> don't know. All I know, is my gut tells me that I'm bothered when I see it
> (I use GMail). But, I don't want to overreact, or start a witch hunt. I'm
> genuinely curious if this is something we want to address at all.
>
> If the profile photo is used on ASF infrastructure (JIRA, affiliated as a
> member of the Apache org on GitHub, etc.), then I think we probably do want
> to address it in the Code of Conduct. However, unrelated services like
> Google profile photos... that may not be something we want to address,
> because the web mail client users use is not related to ASF services (even
> if it were know for user that it impacted ASF community by deterring
> potential new community members).
>
> In any case, I don't raise this issue to demean the individual whose
> profile photo came to my attention... this is not an attack on them. Again,
> this is not a witch hunt.
> --
> Christopher
>

Re: Use of MD5 and SHA1 for download verification

[Ted Dunning]

SHA1 and MD5 have been individually compromised, but a combined hash has
not been.

Regardless, Sebb's comment that hashes are worthless for authentication and
tamper-detection is spot-on. You have to look to trusted signatures for
that.



On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 10:20 AM, Mike Lissner <
mliss...@michaeljaylissner.com> wrote:

> I filed a bug about this already, but I've been directed to email here
> instead. The bug I filed is:
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-12626
>
> Basically, on download pages we provide obsolete hashes for our downloads
> (MD5 and SHA1). These are meant, as I understand it, to serve two purposes.
> First, they allow you to make sure that your download succeeded. Second,
> they allow you to ensure that your download wasn't tampered with.
>
> For the first purpose: Great. They work. For the second purpose, however,
> we need to move away from MD5 and SHA1 hashes, both of which can now be
> attacked with relatively modest hardware.
>
> Browsers are moving away from SHA1 at a very fast pace. See:
>
> https://security.googleblog.com/2014/09/gradually-sunsetting-sha-1.html
>
> And:
>
> https://blog.mozilla.org/security/2014/09/23/phasing-
> out-certificates-with-sha-1-based-signature-algorithms/
>
> I don't know who's responsible for this, but my bug was closed because it's
> not the infrastructure team, and so I'm trying here.
>
> I suggest we move to SHA2 hashes for all verification purposes.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike
>

Re: Hello

[Ted Dunning]

Please send me an address off-line (to tdunn...@apache.org)



On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 12:44 PM, Andrew Palumbo <ap@outlook.com> wrote:

>
> Thanks, Ted-
>
> Drill stickers would be pretty sweet! but I would want to make you take
> the trip just to send those, I still need to order the mahout stickers
> Andrew had made up.  Thanks very Much though! Much appreciated.  Like i
> said, a little swag goes a long way- I have a phone charger in my wife's
> car from the Big Data Everywhere Event in NYC last summer [image: ]
>
>
> Thanks again!
>
>
> Andy
> --
> *From:* Ted Dunning <ted.dunn...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, January 23, 2017 2:08:49 AM
> *To:* dev@community.apache.org
> *Subject:* Re: Hello
>
> On Sun, Jan 22, 2017 at 9:45 PM, Andrew Palumbo <ap@outlook.com>
> wrote:
>
> > So yeah I'm not sure what is available, but a little swag goes a long
> way.
> >
>
> I may have some Mahout stickers.  Let me look about.
>
> I definitely have Drill and Myriad stickers. Let me know if you want some.
> I personally don't have anything else.
>

Re: Hello

[Ted Dunning]

On Sun, Jan 22, 2017 at 9:45 PM, Andrew Palumbo  wrote:

> So yeah I'm not sure what is available, but a little swag goes a long way.
>

I may have some Mahout stickers.  Let me look about.

I definitely have Drill and Myriad stickers. Let me know if you want some.
I personally don't have anything else.

Re: Hello

[Ted Dunning]

Andrew,

I would be happy to help with this directly.

What do you need/want?

On Jan 21, 2017 4:28 PM, "Andrew Palumbo"  wrote:

> Hello,
>
>
> I sent an email yesterday regarding swag for Meetups, etc to this list,
> thinking that it was an Apache list that was devoted specifically to that
> type of thing (i was just going off of a comment automatically sent to me
> from the last quarter's board report review).. I've noticed several Emails,
> and realized that I was wrong about this just being a place to ask for swag
> from.
>
>
> So I just wanted to Introduce myself and say hello.  I'm the PMC chair of
> Apache Mahout.  The Mahout team is a die hard group of all volunteer
> committers, devoted to distributed shared nothing machine learning,
> centered currently around an abstract Engine neutral set of Distributed
> Linear Algebra primitives. We're working currently on a release with GPU
> and native multithreaded backed matrix operations, as well as to provide
> more caned algorithms.   We have no corporate backing, which makes it
> challenging at times to keep up; most of us work after our day-jobs.  This
> also makes us flexible and able to answer to no one but our own PMC when
> deciding the best direction for the project to go.
>
>
> So I just wanted to Introduce myself, and give you an overview of our
> team.  The email that I sent yesterday came off more as an order for Apache
> swag..
>
>
> So, Hello, and have a good weekend, all,
>
>
> Andy
>

Re: Results: ASF Committer Diversity Survey

[Ted Dunning]

On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 6:31 PM, Peter West  wrote:

> The ASF has free software, freely produced by anyone who wants to put his
> or her hand up.  Talk about “diversity” is deeply divisive, and all of the
> BS that accompanies it is the antithesis of freedom.  It is the impulse of
> petty totalitarians who are determined to impose their views on others, and
> to marginalise and denigrate and demonise those who think…diversely. Need I
> mention Brendan Eich here?
>


Peter,

Please refrain from characterizing people like me as petty totalitarians
just because I like to find out why ASF doesn't attract a representative
sample of the population of computer scientists. I am not trying to
marginalize or denigrate, but you, on the other hand, are clearly being
pretty insulting.


>
> So keep this stuff out of the ASF, please.  You are free to pursue
> whatever other (non-software) obsessions you like in your own time, and
> those big software houses with their diversity departments will accomodate
> you at work.
>

I am very tempted to be really rude here.

Let me just say that I am not trying to impose anything on you and trying
to understand what brings people to Apache and what keeps them away is a
key step in community building.

I suppose that I should add that your attitude is illuminating on the
problem of what keeps people away.

Re: Results: ASF Committer Diversity Survey

[Ted Dunning]

On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Peter West  wrote:

> Why does the ASF give a tinker’s damn about diversity? Why are scarce
> resources being devoted to it? Seriously.
>


These are volunteer resources. They are not your resources. They aren't the
ASF's resources.

Why does ASF spend scarce resources on incubating new projects? Or
developing code?

If a volunteer has an itch let them get on with scratching it!

Re: Healthcare Open Source Technology Request

[Ted Dunning]

Kate,

To add a bit to what Bertrand says, it is likely that there is a bit of a
gulf between what Apache expects new communities to be and do and what you
might come up with from first principles or raw expectations.

That said, your suggested projects could be really valuable and they might
very well fit well in the Apache community of communities. Your call for
potential champions is exactly the right first step. A good champion can
help you figure out what Apache is and what it is that we do (and don't do).

Bertrand's suggestion that you say a bit more about what you are doing and
want to do is spot on. That is how you get people excited.



On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 1:30 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz  wrote:

> Hi Kate,
>
> On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 4:35 AM, Kate ONeill
>  wrote:
> > ...Is it possible to connect with one of your champions or mentors to
> > help me in the process?...
>
> Many potential champions and mentors are reading this list, the best
> way to raise their attention might be to give some more information
> about your software, ideally pointers to existing code.
>
> The Incubator is usually not keen on accepting projects for incubation
> without an initial codebase and a (minimal maybe) community, so if you
> can point us to those it might help raise interest.
>
> -Bertrand
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
>
>

Re: Distributing ASF Material

[Ted Dunning]

On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 9:53 AM, Alan Gates  wrote:

> I would like to add some context to Ted’s complaint.  If he is talking
> about the incident that I think he is, it happened years before Hortonworks
> was founded.  (I wasn’t there, but I have heard the story from those who
> were.)  He was at a Hadoop User Group promoting MapR’s proprietary file
> system as better than Hadoop’s HDFS, which was not appreciated.


It was not that event.

It was about the time of the founding of HW and I was approached and told
that there might be "consequences" if I attended an HBase meetup that was
upcoming.

I have been involved in open source now for about 40 years. That was the
first time that I had ever been threatened.

Re: Encouraging Diversity - Update 1

[Ted Dunning]

Sharan,

One possible explanation of an under-representation problem (assuming we
have one ... you point out rightly that we should measure first) is that
*other* factors have given the impression that open source communities are
unfriendly.

For instance, I could imagine that the recent Gamergate hullabaloo might
cause a (mis)perception that open source projects are like that. Or it
could be other communities are tarring us with their brush.

This would lead to something very much like what some people are claiming
is the situation, that is that ASF communities are plenty welcoming and
friendly but we still wind up with lots less participation than you might
otherwise expect.

I can't say that this *is* the case, but it might be a possible mechanism
to keep an eye out for.



On Mon, May 30, 2016 at 1:27 PM, Sharan Foga  wrote:

> Hi Everyone
>
> A quick update following on from my thread about encouraging women to
> participate in ASF projects.
>
> I've contacted a few women's groups but not everyone has replied. Full
> details are on the wiki page I've setup.
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/COMDEV/Diversity+Strategy+Ideas
>
>
> I'll be doing some follow up this week if I don't hear anything.
>
> A big thank you to Tamao who connected me to her contact at Hackbright. As
> she mentioned in her previous post, Hackbright are looking into open source
> programs and partnerships so the ASF could be a very good fit. We have a
> call planned for 16^th June.
>
> Also on the wiki page – I've started drafting some ideas about a general
> high level diversity strategy with a mission statement and some deliverable
> outcomes. From that I've tried to take it down another level to think about
> what we would need to deliver that outcome.
>
> One thing that keeps recurring is that we don't know what diversity we
> have now so will need to perform some kind of survey to measure it. A short
> survey seems an easy answer to the problem so will see if I can put
> together a draft.
>
> Anyway – this is where I've got to at the moment so any feedback,
> comments, ideas welcome.
>
> Thanks
> Sharan
>
>
>

Re: Want to find more contributors for your Apache project?

[Ted Dunning]

On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 11:22 AM, Nick Burch  wrote:

> For newcomers, might it be better to point them at ponymail? It's a bit
> more "modern" and "user friendly" than the venerable mod-mbox...
>
> https://pony-poc.apache.org/list.html?dev@community.apache.org
>

Is it production?

Re: Request for a mentor

[Ted Dunning]

Check out the following projects:

Singa  (this would be very good
because it is pretty cutting edge and is in incubation)
Mahout  (especially the Samsara portion)
Spark  (especially the MLLib sub-project)
Madlib 

Incubator projects may be particularly good for you since they will tend to
be much more welcoming to newcomers because they are in growth phase
instead of maintenance mode.





On Sat, Jan 9, 2016 at 3:44 AM, Anirudh Jain  wrote:

> Hi Roman,
>
> I have gone through the Apache projects page multiple times and came out
> hopelessly confused. My primary research interests are Artificial
> Intelligence and Machine Learning, but apart from that, I love to find out
> clever solutions to complicated problems. I also love to learn about new
> technologies and how they might grow to influence us. I am less interested
> in front-end but more in the cogs-and-wheels which make the things run.
> I would love to work in anything related to machine learning, big data or
> any other area which could use me. What I might lack in knowledge, I will
> make up in willingness to learn and my enthusiasm to contribute.
>
> Thanks,
> Anirudh Jain
>
> On Sat, Jan 9, 2016 at 8:44 AM, pooja sukhi  wrote:
>
> > Add me too. I am also interested in java
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> > 
> >
> > On Fri, 8 Jan, 2016 at 11:01 pm, Anirudh Jain
> >  wrote:
> > I am currently pursuing Integrated Masters of Technology in Mathematics
> and
> > Computing from Indian Institute of Technology, Dhanbad. I am proficient
> in
> > basics of Java and data structures. I am looking to start working on
> > development software too and given my love for all things open source,
> > Apache community seems an ideal place to start.
> > I went over the various projects under development by apache community,
> and
> > despite my enthusiasm to contribute I find myself very confused about how
> > to take the first step.
> > I would greatly appreciate if I can find a mentor which would help me so
> I
> > could begin my first steps.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Anirudh Jain
> > +91 9097303037
> > Int. M.Tech. Maths and Computing
> > Indian Institute of Technology, Dhanbad
> > India
> >
> >
>

Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community

[Ted Dunning]

On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 10:18 PM, Ted Liu  wrote:

> My apologies if misunderstood from Ted Dunning's earlier comment: " I was
> a mentor on kylin and worried about English being a problem for
> contribution. The real problem is that apache is partially defined by the
> use of English to allow as wide a participation as possible."
>

Hmm... I accidentally used a complex tense expression when I said that.

What I meant was that before we did the Kylin incubation, I worried that
English would be too big a barrier.

During incubation, the Chinese team members worked very hard to make
interaction easy and clear. I think my doubts well proved unfounded.



>
> I trust Luke and his team are very capable of English communication
> effectively. It is just that it is still minority of such elites in China
> dev community so far and that's the reason why Chinese document for Kylin
> is still needed.
>

I think that Luke may be correct that these barriers can be overcome more
easily than one would suspect.  (Easier here means possible with
substantial effort is easier than nearly impossible)

Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community

[Ted Dunning]

Ted,

My further comments are in-line.  Your explanation is helping understand
what your goals are.


On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 8:29 PM, Ted Liu  wrote:

> Hi Ted, Yes, we want to establish a bridge or a group (if the idea of
> "China Community" seemed to be intimidating or crazy) to help more devs
> become contributors and committers to popular projects from the West and to
> help incubate more Chinese projects to become popular both internationally
> and domestically.


This sounds great.


> It aims to be a bridge to overcome language barriers and culture
> differences so that more talents and projects can exchange. We certainly
> hope this bridge or group can use the Apache name, at least in Chinese 阿帕奇,
> but not really a MUST if ASF doesn’t support the idea or treat it as a
> beast. In this case, we'd probably do it with another name not violating
> ASF trademark.
>

Well, I think that Apache *does* support this in several ways.


> Our idea is to set up a few working groups moderated, mentored by
> experienced Chinese ASF members, PMC members, committers, contributors,
> etc. to achieve the above goals. The working groups may be ranging from big
> data, cloud computing, dev language/framework, community development
> (including events, meetups, localization, travel assistance...), etc.
>

One strong suggestion that I would have is that we start with smaller
pieces, not with everything all at once. Furthermore, the rate should be
determined by the number of people willing to help make it happen.

There are a variety of things that can be done.

- Herve suggests localized versions of descriptions of how Apache works.
There might be an additional descriptive list for questions about how
Apache works that is conducted in particular languages. This is very
similar to how the Open Office tries to support multiple languages. Policy
decisions would, of course, have to remain on the English mailing.

- A similar thing can happen with localized documentation and user mailing
lists for popular projects like Spark.  For instance, there might be
user...@spark.apache.org. This would only work, of course, if there are
enough people to answer questions.

I think that these two sorts of efforts would cover most of what you
mention.



>
> I'm so glad to hear that you were the mentor of Apache Kylin incubation
> project and trust that you were also aware of the frustrations from both
> side due to language issues (and maybe not-so-obvious culture difference).


Yes. I have previously run a development group in China as well.  I was
very impressed in the Kylin project by how little the problems of language
seemed to be. Of course, I might not see the problems and there is always
the problem of silent failures from people who didn't show up and describe
their problems because of the English-only nature.

Whether I was a good mentor, I should not say.  Ask Luke or another of hte
project members.



> Another example is Ali JStorm as an incubation project to the Apache Storm
> project.


I was a mentor for Storm as well and have seen this very important
development first hand.


> Both side probably felt frustrated along the way. Even though there are
> more English-capable IT people in China nowadays, the pains and
> misunderstandings of using non-native languages still exist.
>

Absolutely.  And I feel the same problems, but even more every time I look
at a web site in Chinese.  Or Japanese.  Or Indonesian.  Or Hindi.  Or
Tamil. Even in languages like German, Swedish or Spanish that I can read, I
am much slower than in English and it is very frustrating.


> Due to the much bigger user and dev base in China, I'd put much heavier
> weigh on hot projects from the West, e.g. Spark, Hadoop, etc. over the
> Chinese-originated projects like Kylin. So the localization priority is
> obvious.
>

That sounds like a great start.

Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community

[Ted Dunning]

On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 9:53 PM, Ted Liu  wrote:

> p.s. The reason why a Wechat public account is a big plus because it is
> used by 500M Wechat chatters on daily basis to acquire/learn information.
> This is a very effective China-specific scenario.
>

Note that you can use ANY channel or medium to inform people about how
Apache works or tell them what projects do or share experiences.

It is the development that has to be on the official lists.

Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community

[Ted Dunning]

Ross,

How do you square opposition to a separate china org with the irreconcilable 
needs to maintain English as the language of apache with the need to allow 
non-English speaking Chinese speakers to participate?

I can't.  

To the extent that it is possible, I encourage English capable people from 
china to participate in projects like singa, Zeppelin and kylin (all Asian 
origin projects at apache). 

That satisfies part of the need. 

There is also a serious need for projects that conduct themselves in Chinese. 
(There are also likely other languages where this need arises)

Such groups cannot validly be overseen by a non-Chinese speaking board.  

How is a new Chinese speaking organization anything not important? 

I don't suggest that apache create such a beast. I would love it if apache 
veterans help with it.  If I can help, I will, but I am handicapped by my 
linguistic ignorance. As it is often said, those with the itch must do the 
scratching. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 21, 2015, at 18:43, Ross Gardler  wrote:
> 
> I'm not in favor of a separate China org. I am 100% in favor of helping you 
> and your Chinese colleagues right here and through cultural exchanges like 
> those that I talked about at ApacheCon and you have facilitated.

Re: [reporter] Confusing PMC/Committeer/Committee/LDAP report format

[Ted Dunning]

Yay to that!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 21, 2015, at 5:27, Sam Ruby  wrote:
> 
> I'm working slowly on making the roster tool read/write so that it can
> be used instead of the Perl scripts and editing committee-info.txt
> directly.  The idea is that adding an existing committer to the PMC
> should be a matter of a few mouse clicks.

Re: My VIP application

[Ted Dunning]

On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 12:13 AM, Branko Čibej <br...@apache.org> wrote:

> Can someone please get this troll off the list?
>
>
> On 07.10.2015 17:52, Stefan Reich wrote:
> > She just got it off her chest.
> >
> > PS: Application for Germany. Million $ coming. http://leo.tinybrain.de
> > Am 07.10.2015 16:29 schrieb "Ted Dunning" <ted.dunn...@gmail.com>:
>

Branko,

He seems harmless enough.  The occasional non-sequitur.  No flame bait.

Re: My VIP application

[Ted Dunning]

The Apache software foundation builds open source software that is used by
many companies in the world.

This Apache software is not the application that is causing you problems.
The company you are dealing with has additional software to handle
payments. That software has nothing to do with Apache Software Foundation.

We cannot help you.


On Wed, Oct 7, 2015 at 6:02 AM, Elena  wrote:

> Good afternoon all
> I'm writing this mail to your company  because I did not get a proper
> answer from the company that you made the app for ,MY VIP APPLICATION.
>
> I'm writing for an app that was created by your company for a Macedonian
> telephone operator called VIP.
> The app that they promote to their users is complete mess, they promote
> online Payments within the app but the truth is that is not enough
> developed.
>

Re: Passion and vigilance in open source

[Ted Dunning]

Jim,

Is that really happening?  Is the fun leaving?  Or is it we are all just
getting old and are forgetting the child-like wonder?



On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 12:58 PM, Jim Jagielski  wrote:

> Some of you may know that I've started a Vlog series on Youtube
> around some topics I find interesting, mostly around open source.
>
> My latest is about the risks around open source today where the
> fun and passion that used to exist around open source is drying
> up or being discounted. Since Apache is one of the still remaining
> oasis of open source being all about community and fun whilst still
> changing the world, I'd like to ask for some thoughts from the
> membership about their concerns, etc... that I can fold into the
> 2nd part of this mini-series.
>
> If so, please contact me directly. I have set the Reply-To header
> accordingly.
>
> Thx!
>

Re: Storm / Heron

[Ted Dunning]

On Fri, Aug 21, 2015 at 8:41 AM, Andy Flosdorf aflosd...@ahinstitute.com
wrote:

 In the past 18 months, our organization has undertaken a project utilizing
 Apache Storm.  However, we’ve recently learned that Twitter has replaced
 Storm with Heron.



 Are there any resources that discuss this transition by Twitter in the
 context of Apache’s plans to continue to develop and utilize Storm? Will
 the transition by Twitter likely lead to the discontinuation of Storm over
 time?



 Any resources to which you could point that describe the discussion would
 be helpful.


Joe's comment is correct.  Follow up with the Storm community.

But also, Twitter doesn't decide that the Storm project will be
discontinued.  The Apache Software Foundation doesn't decide.  The Storm
community consisting of users and developers of Storm are the ones who
decide.

If somebody is telling you that Storm is dead, question their motives than
the existence of the project.

Re: slack

[Ted Dunning]

I use slack for work.  The Apache Mahout project has been using it as well.

There is a huge danger of off-list discussions that go unreported (as with
IRC, but seemingly more so because of a better interface and easier access
to one-on-one conversations). The problem is not the tool itself or the
people, it is just the social drift that happens and which must be
forcefully counter-acted.




On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 12:56 PM, Achim Nierbeck bcanh...@googlemail.com
wrote:

 Same here using slack at work and irc for apache chats

 Regards, Achim

 sent from mobile device
 Am 06.08.2015 9:33 nachm. schrieb beancinemat...@gmail.com:

  I use Slack at work, but favor the openness of IRC for everything else.
 
  Mo
 
  Sent from my iPhone
 
   On Aug 6, 2015, at 1:57 PM, Peter Hunsberger 
 peter.hunsber...@gmail.com
  wrote:
  
   Outside of Apache, the NEO4J project uses Slack.  It seems pretty
 active
   with a pretty global user base.
  
   Peter Hunsberger
  
   On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 12:24 PM, Louis Suárez-Potts lui...@gmail.com
   wrote:
  
   Hi,
   I’m curious who here also uses Slack. Besides me, that is.
  
   One thing I’m interested in is, How global is its reach?
  
   -louis
 

Re: GitHub Pages

[Ted Dunning]

Git can be used instead of SVN.  CMS is not required.

Drill has comprehensive docs on how to push their web-site:

https://github.com/apache/drill/tree/gh-pages-master


On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 8:38 AM, Jay Vyas jayunit100.apa...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Yeah, same question... Svn pushing or CMS still required?  According to
 the snippet below the svn part is no longer needed? But maybe I'm
 misinterpreting ...?

  On Aug 3, 2015, at 11:22 AM, Stian Soiland-Reyes st...@apache.org
 wrote:
 
  This looks good.
 
  So do I understand any of the commiters editing the site would still
  need to run Jekyll manually and push (how?), or is there a GitHub like
  autobuild?
 
  Is Jekyll still requiring various Ruby libraries to be installed in a
  carefully selected version (with fun time on Windows for native
  dependencies), or is docker images like jekyll/jekyll making things
  easier?
 
 
 
 
  On 3 August 2015 at 15:58, Owen O'Malley omal...@apache.org wrote:
  On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 11:56 PM, Ted Dunning ted.dunn...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
  Several projects are using Jekyll to emulate the github style site
  processing.  As an example: http://drill.apache.org/
 
  THis is still a bit inconvenient in that the gh-pages branch has to be
  built using jekyll and then checked into SVN, but it does work pretty
  easily.  The process pretty much has to be manual because of the access
  required to check things into SVN, but there is nothing else that
 requires
  manual intervention.
 
  Actually, now infra has set it up so that you can have both in the same
  repository using the asf-site branch in git. Here is the generated
 html
  for ORC: https://github.com/apache/orc/tree/asf-site
 
  I really like the Jekyll engine for generating the HTML. ORC's jekyll
  source is at https://github.com/apache/orc/tree/master/site
 
  .. Owen
 
 
 
  --
  Stian Soiland-Reyes
  Apache Taverna (incubating), Apache Commons RDF (incubating)
  http://orcid.org/-0001-9842-9718

Re: Fw: Is https://projects-new.apache.org/ ready for prime time?

[Ted Dunning]

The label on the second pie graph is broken.  It refers to language (cut
and paste from the first caption, I think).



On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 10:40 AM, Sally Khudairi s...@apache.org wrote:

 So ...we've had a tweet from Roman last month, and now JimJag (bcc'd) has
 done so as well

 https://twitter.com/jimjag/status/620940463558782976


 Are we officially live yet?

 If not, please let me know when I can promote.

 Cheers,
 Sally

 
 From: Sally Khudairi sallykhuda...@yahoo.com
 To: jan i j...@apache.org; dev@community.apache.org 
 dev@community.apache.org
 Cc: David Crossley cross...@apache.org; Sally Khudairi s...@apache.org
 Sent: Saturday, 20 June 2015, 6:53
 Subject: Re: Fw: Is https://projects-new.apache.org/ ready for prime time?



 Aha!

 OK --that's exactly it. I didn't realize that it was going to replace the
 old link.

 So yes, you are correct, Jan, we don't want to do that.

 As such, I'll be standing by to hear when you (collectively) are ready.

 Thanks again,
  Sally


 [From the mobile; please excuse top-posting, spelling/spacing errors, and
 brevity]



 - Reply message -
 From: jan i j...@apache.org
 To: dev@community.apache.org dev@community.apache.org
 Cc: David Crossley cross...@apache.org, Sally Khudairi 
 s...@apache.org
 Subject: Fw: Is https://projects-new.apache.org/ ready for prime time?
 Date: Sat, Jun 20, 2015 06:39





 On 20 June 2015 at 12:34, Sally Khudairi sallykhuda...@yahoo.com.invalid
 wrote:

 Thanks, David!
 
 I noticed that Roman tweeted the link yesterday, so I guess the cat is
 out of the bag, as the saying goes.
 
 As such, barring any objections, I'll start spreading the word.
 
 Do we really want to do marketing on the temporary URL ?


 In my opinion, we should do some renaming so the current one is called
 -old and the new one replaces the current one.


 rgds

 jan i.


 Are there plans in place to link this from the apache.org homepage?
 
 Thanks again,
 Sally
 
 
 [From the mobile; please excuse top-posting, spelling/spacing errors, and
 brevity]
 
 - Reply message -
 
 From: David Crossley cross...@apache.org
 To: dev@community.apache.org, Sally Khudairi s...@apache.org
 Subject: Fw: Is https://projects-new.apache.org/ ready for prime time?
 Date: Sat, Jun 20, 2015 03:03
 
 Previous discussion here was about how to maintain the
 actual project data.
 Also various items listed here:
 https://projects-new.apache.org/about.html
 
 ~David
 
 On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 08:55:52PM +, Sally Khudairi wrote:
  Hello Uli and the Apache ComDev team --I hope this message finds you
 well.
  Per below, I'm interested in promoting the new Projects page.
  Can you please let me know if/when we're ready to do so?
  Thanks so much,
  Sally
 
  - Forwarded Message -
From: David Nalley da...@gnsa.us
   To: Sally Khudairi sallykhuda...@yahoo.com
  Cc: Daniel Gruno humbed...@apache.org; ASF Infrastructure 
 infrastruct...@apache.org
   Sent: Friday, June 19, 2015 11:50 AM
   Subject: Re: Is https://projects-new.apache.org/ ready for prime time?
 
  Hi Sally:
 
  projects-new.apache.org is a ComDev managed resource, not an
  infrastructure managed resource. I think the PMC has had a discussion
  or two about when to migrate projects-new to projects.a.o
 
  --David
 
 
 
  On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 11:30 AM, Sally Khudairi
  sallykhuda...@yahoo.com wrote:
   Hello Daniel and David --I hope you are both well.
  
  
   I was wondering if the new Projects page at
  
   https://projects-new.apache.org/
  
   was ready to be publicly deployed/announced/promoted.
  
   There's so much great information there and it's an incredible
 resource (I use it every week for the News Round-ups and we relied on it
 for the Annual Report), if there's no reason why it should still be in
 stealth mode, I'd like to shout out about it from the rooftops.
  
   Just let me know if we're good to go and if there are any
 disclaimers/caveats we should be aware of.
  
   Warm thanks,
   Sally
  
  
   = = = = =
   vox +1 617 921 8656
   off2 +1 646 583 3362
   skype sallykhudairi
 
 

Re: Integrating JavaX

[Ted Dunning]

Stefan,

Here is the email that I sent to general@ a few days ago.  Didn't realize
that you weren't subscribed.

Note that I have bcc'ed the community development list and added
gene...@incubator.apache.org

We should continue the discussion there.  You might like to subscribe so
that replies made to the mailing list will reach you.

I think it might help if we get a bit on the same page.  Apache doesn't
 take over projects.  Apache provides a framework for people involved in a
 project to create good releases and to build community.
 Check out resources on the web.
 I just found this, for instance, which is by an Apache member.  It
 provides a reasonable outline of things.

 http://www.slideshare.net/hemapani/introduction-to-open-source-apache-and-apache-way



On Sun, May 10, 2015 at 5:42 PM, Stefan Reich 
stefan.reich.maker.of@googlemail.com wrote:

 I wrote the mail... I thought you guys wanted to chime in?

 All the best,
 Stefan
 Am 08.05.2015 19:00 schrieb Konstantin Boudnik c...@apache.org:

  Stefan,
 
  As Thiago suggested, you can move this conversation to
  gene...@incubator.apache.org: there's a bunch of people who are helping
  new
  projects to get into ASF and up to speed on a daily basis.
 
  I, for one, will keep an eye on your email and will chime in as soon as
 it
  arrives ;)
 
  Good luck!
Cos
 
  On Fri, May 08, 2015 at 06:41PM, Stefan Reich wrote:
   Nice! I'll make it a tech spike.
  
   Now we should move this discussion somewhere else I guess (sorry for
   posting to the list, Mike - I need attention :). Just where?
  
   Cheers
   Am 08.05.2015 17:34 schrieb Mike Kienenberger mkien...@gmail.com:
  
javaX definitely looks interesting.
   
I've always wished Java supported named parameter methods like
  Objective-C.
   
drawCircleWithRadius:r atX:x y:y;
 instead of
drawCircle(r, x, y);
   
I suppose that would conflict with the conditional expression
 operator
(b ? t : f) but maybe two colons
   
drawCircleWithRadius::r atX::x y::y;
   
Of course, without the smalltalk-esque grouping brackets, maybe it'd
be too hard to read and parse it in java.   Guess the idea would need
more work.
   
[renderer drawCircleWithRadius:r atX:[radiusSource xBasedOnInputA:a
  b:b]
y:y];
versus
renderer.drawCircleWithRadiusAtXandY(r,
radiusSource.xBasedOnInputAandB(a, b), y);
   
doesn't really work as
   
renderer.drawCircleWithRadius::r atX::radiusSource.xBasedOnInputA::a
  b::b
y::y;
   
Maybe with extra parens...
   
renderer.(drawCircleWithRadius::r
 atX::radiusSource.(xBasedOnInputA::a
b::b) y::y);
   
but at this point, it stops having the same readability
   
Guess we really need objective C method call syntax for java :)
   
   
   
On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 9:58 AM, Thiago H de Paula Figueiredo
thiag...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Fri, 08 May 2015 09:18:10 -0300, Stefan Reich
 stefan.reich.maker.of@googlemail.com wrote:

 Hi!


 Hi!

 I'd like to find a home (or home-s) for the JavaX project (
 http://javax.tinybrain.de).


 Taking a look . . . :)


 JavaX is a super-extensible version of Java.

 It's probably the easiest way to extend any language existing
 right
  now.

 Is there a way to collaborate with Apache? I think I can promise
 you
that
 this is the way of the future :-)


 I believe the incubator is the place to start:
http://incubator.apache.org/
 The Incubator project is the entry path into The Apache Software
Foundation
 (ASF) for projects and codebases wishing to become part of the
Foundation's
 efforts. All code donations from external organisations and
 existing
 external projects wishing to join Apache enter through the
  Incubator.

 --
 Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
 Tapestry, Java and Hibernate consultant and developer
 http://machina.com.br
   
 

Re: Google Code shutting down Jan 2016

[Ted Dunning]

On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 7:17 AM, Branko Čibej br...@apache.org wrote:

 Do please consider that all the world cannot use Maven just as all the
 world is not written in Java.


Lately, it appears that the fraction of the world that can use maven or a
cache of maven is pretty large.  Even our very finicky financial customers
can often access an internal maven mirror that contains approved items.

Re: Veto! Veto?

[Ted Dunning]

On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 11:59 AM, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com
wrote:

 It is sometimes the case that the individual, with power in the community,
 can't work with another 'in his eyes difficult' person.

 If his contributions are beneficial to the project, if others in the
 project can work with that second person in the collegia/civil manner that
 is expected in a communityl, how can it be acceptable that that first
 person (the one with power who can't work with the other) can block
 acceptance with a veto.

 Voting against is not the same as vetoing!

 Suppose one of you (with power) finds me 'difficult' within this community
 (as this community is somewhat similar to any other ASF project). And
 suppose I get nominated as PMC member, because of my good contributions and
 of my ability to work with many others.

 How would a veto (to have me in) inspire me to do more for the greater
 good, but in stead lead to cycles towards being a loss for this community?

 Vetoing people isn't a community builder. It doesn't help when it comes to
 collaborating. It doesn't help when it comes to diversifying the community.



Actually, I draw almost exactly opposite conclusions from my experience
with Apache.

A person who is difficult to work with for a minority of the community is a
major impediment to growing the community in my experience, especially with
people who are like the minority.  To be more specific, a prolific
contributor who is an ass to women will prevent the project from ever
getting very many women as contributors, much less as committers.

The potential negative side of having been vetoed for a role in the project
is exactly the reason that personnel decisions are debated in private.  It
is much better to not let the person under consideration know about
potential committership or PMC membership until the answer is positive.  It
isn't uncommon for lack of consensus on a nomination is eventually cured
and the vote passes.  Without privacy on the first vote, the second chance
might well not ever happen.

As a small semantic point, whether voting is the same as vetoing depends
strictly on the voting rules in play.  With consensus as the requirement, a
negative vote is exactly the same as a veto.

Re: GitHub Pages

[Ted Dunning]

On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 9:55 AM, David Nalley da...@gnsa.us wrote:

 SSL
 Specifically - apache.org sites are in https-everywhere. Those sites
 can't provide SSL.


Very good point.



 None of the current TLP web sites are being served from Apache
 hardware though - it's all VMs in 2-3 different cloud providers.


But these are all apache controlled, right?

Re: GitHub Pages

[Ted Dunning]

On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 9:51 AM, Mike Kienenberger mkien...@gmail.com
wrote:

 The github pages I've worked on have all been in Markdown, so they're
 portable.


INdeed.  And the Jekyll procedures I have talked about  in this thread
allow GH emulation at small cost.



 I also don't see any reason why we can't host pages elsewhere since we
 control the source repositories.


Well, the cost of moving from that external hosting is a big risk, even if
low probability.



 On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 12:45 PM, Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH)
 ross.gard...@microsoft.com wrote:
  Is it really necessary for our web pages to be served from Apache
 hardware? If so, why?
 
  I understand why we want to control the canonical source, but do we
 really need to own web server?
 
  A concern, for me, would be if hosting on GitHub Pages meant that we
 could not easily switch to another host.
 
  Ross
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Ted Dunning [mailto:ted.dunn...@gmail.com]
  Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2015 9:40 AM
  To: dev@community.apache.org
  Subject: Re: GitHub Pages
 
  Chris,
 
  The easy summary is that Apache would like to keep apache sites being
 served by apache controlled hardware.
 
  Github serving pages fails that test.
 
 
 
  On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 9:37 AM, Christopher ctubb...@apache.org
 wrote:
 
  On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 6:41 PM, Ted Dunning ted.dunn...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
  
   I think those other comments about Jekyll had to do with keeping all
   of the site storage on apache servers.
  
  
  I'm not sure I understand how Jekyll affects that. Are we concerned
  that GitHub will not render the site's source accurately? And, if so,
  wouldn't that concern extend to non-Jekyll static sources also?
 
 
   There have been objections in this thread about using github.io
   based sites even with site name masquerading.
  
  
  Does anybody wish to summarize those? I think it would be helpful.
 
 
   Sent from my iPhone
  
On Mar 6, 2015, at 14:36, Christopher ctubb...@apache.org wrote:
   
Regarding some of the other comments about jekyll... it's not true
that
   you
need jekyll. You can publish plain HTML or Markdown also.
  
 

Re: GitHub Pages

[Ted Dunning]

On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 9:45 AM, Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) 
ross.gard...@microsoft.com wrote:

 Is it really necessary for our web pages to be served from Apache
 hardware? If so, why?

 I understand why we want to control the canonical source, but do we really
 need to own web server?


I am mostly echoing what I have heard here.

But ...


 A concern, for me, would be if hosting on GitHub Pages meant that we could
 not easily switch to another host.


This is definitely a big deal and a non-trivial effort.  If we had dozens
of projects on GH and they went down/changed business model, I could
imagine weeks to months of outage as a result.

Re: GitHub Pages

[Ted Dunning]

Chris,

The easy summary is that Apache would like to keep apache sites being
served by apache controlled hardware.

Github serving pages fails that test.



On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 9:37 AM, Christopher ctubb...@apache.org wrote:

 On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 6:41 PM, Ted Dunning ted.dunn...@gmail.com wrote:

 
  I think those other comments about Jekyll had to do with keeping all of
  the site storage on apache servers.
 
 
 I'm not sure I understand how Jekyll affects that. Are we concerned that
 GitHub will not render the site's source accurately? And, if so, wouldn't
 that concern extend to non-Jekyll static sources also?


  There have been objections in this thread about using github.io based
  sites even with site name masquerading.
 
 
 Does anybody wish to summarize those? I think it would be helpful.


  Sent from my iPhone
 
   On Mar 6, 2015, at 14:36, Christopher ctubb...@apache.org wrote:
  
   Regarding some of the other comments about jekyll... it's not true that
  you
   need jekyll. You can publish plain HTML or Markdown also.
 

Re: What's the ideal job title for somebody who is payed to help ASF communities grow?

[Ted Dunning]

Roman's distinction was a practical one that arises from the fact that a
large majority of projects have this problem.  The reflection into Roman's
practical situation is that the community developer people he wants to hire
don't have an Apache bestowed title that reflects their activities.


 (I can't say I have sampled all of the problems so maybe I shouldn't say
large majority.  I have pretty high gut confidence in the
characterization, however)


On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 12:04 AM, Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) 
ross.gard...@microsoft.com wrote:

 I said the ASF not Apache Foo. I do agree with your observation with
 respect to Apache Foo. Any project which fails to recognize merit of any
 sort should reconsider its position (and I agree that this means most
 projects).

 However, for the ASF there is no distinction. That's why I'm challenging
 the distinction Roman is making in his question here.

 Ross

 -Original Message-
 From: Ted Dunning [mailto:ted.dunn...@gmail.com]
 Sent: Sunday, March 8, 2015 10:53 PM
 To: dev@community.apache.org
 Subject: Re: What's the ideal job title for somebody who is payed to help
 ASF communities grow?

 Ideally and aspirationally, that is true.  Practically speaking,
 definitely not true.



 On Sun, Mar 8, 2015 at 6:28 PM, Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) 
 ross.gard...@microsoft.com wrote:

  Once again, the ASF makes no distinction between code and other
  contributions.
 
  Sent from Windows Mail
 
  From: Roman Shaposhnikmailto:ro...@shaposhnik.org
  Sent: ?Sunday?, ?March? ?8?, ?2015 ?5?:?21? ?PM
  To: ComDevmailto:dev@community.apache.org
 
  On Sun, Mar 8, 2015 at 3:08 PM, David Nalley da...@gnsa.us wrote:
   On Sun, Mar 8, 2015 at 5:55 PM, Roman Shaposhnik
   ro...@shaposhnik.org
  wrote:
   On Sun, Mar 8, 2015 at 2:45 PM, Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH)
   ross.gard...@microsoft.com wrote:
   Who said we allow it for engineers? My position is the same for
   any
  community member no matter what they do.
  
   It is all over LI and resumes. Here's a good example:
  https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=759319
   Developer at Apache Maven
  
  
   But he is an Apache Maven developer. (and committer, and PMC member).
   That's very different than hiring someone off the street with a
   $bigco job title of Maven Developer with no standing in the community.
 
  How is it different if a person is considered a bonafide member of the
  community but his contributions are not code? Why that person can't
  have a similar title?
 
  Thanks,
  Roman.
 

Re: What's the ideal job title for somebody who is payed to help ASF communities grow?

[Ted Dunning]

On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 8:59 AM, Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) 
ross.gard...@microsoft.com wrote:

 We don't have to accept that projects often fail to recognize some kinds
 of merit.


I like that!

Re: What's the ideal job title for somebody who is payed to help ASF communities grow?

[Ted Dunning]

Ideally and aspirationally, that is true.  Practically speaking, definitely
not true.



On Sun, Mar 8, 2015 at 6:28 PM, Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) 
ross.gard...@microsoft.com wrote:

 Once again, the ASF makes no distinction between code and other
 contributions.

 Sent from Windows Mail

 From: Roman Shaposhnikmailto:ro...@shaposhnik.org
 Sent: ?Sunday?, ?March? ?8?, ?2015 ?5?:?21? ?PM
 To: ComDevmailto:dev@community.apache.org

 On Sun, Mar 8, 2015 at 3:08 PM, David Nalley da...@gnsa.us wrote:
  On Sun, Mar 8, 2015 at 5:55 PM, Roman Shaposhnik ro...@shaposhnik.org
 wrote:
  On Sun, Mar 8, 2015 at 2:45 PM, Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH)
  ross.gard...@microsoft.com wrote:
  Who said we allow it for engineers? My position is the same for any
 community member no matter what they do.
 
  It is all over LI and resumes. Here's a good example:
 https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=759319
  Developer at Apache Maven
 
 
  But he is an Apache Maven developer. (and committer, and PMC member).
  That's very different than hiring someone off the street with a $bigco
  job title of Maven Developer with no standing in the community.

 How is it different if a person is considered a bonafide member of
 the community but his contributions are not code? Why that person
 can't have a similar title?

 Thanks,
 Roman.

Re: What's the ideal job title for somebody who is payed to help ASF communities grow?

[Ted Dunning]

On Sun, Mar 8, 2015 at 5:31 PM, Roman Shaposhnik ro...@shaposhnik.org
wrote:

 The example of I gave with Brett -- clearly the ASF community was the
 one bestowing that title. Now, quite contrary to the semantics game that
 Ross
 was playing with 'what is an official title anyway?' -- I'd say that
 at that point
 it becomes one of Brett's official titles. Which means that even if
 there's a
 *corporate* announcement of him doing an event he can be billed as:
Bret, Developer at Apache Maven

 Can we agree on that?


To clarify what I am about to agree with:

Titles bestowed by the community can be used by the individuals to
reference themselves
Titles bestowed by companies should not include Apache trademarks

I agree with this and I think it is the same as what Roman said.

The only problem is that our projects rarely acknowledge really strong
advocates.  For a specific instance, Ellen Friedman (note personal
connection with me) was made a committer by Mahout for community
development efforts while Drill has not recognized even more extensive
efforts on their part.  Any developer putting in a tenth as much time as
she does would have long ago been made a committer and PMC member.  But
that means that she can't claim any official Drill status while promoting
Drill (because she doesn't have any).

One consequence is that people doing this sort of work get mightily
discouraged.

Re: GitHub Pages

[Ted Dunning]

I think those other comments about Jekyll had to do with keeping all of the 
site storage on apache servers. 

There have been objections in this thread about using github.io based sites 
even with site name masquerading. 

Sent from my iPhone

 On Mar 6, 2015, at 14:36, Christopher ctubb...@apache.org wrote:
 
 Regarding some of the other comments about jekyll... it's not true that you
 need jekyll. You can publish plain HTML or Markdown also.

Re: GitHub pages for git based Apache projects (Was: Re: Managing zyz.apache.org (was RE: WELCOME to dev@community.apache.org))

[Ted Dunning]

Apache Drill has been doing something like this for some time.  They use
Jekyll from Github to render markdown as HTML and then commit the HTML to
SVN to that pubsub carries it to the right places.

By doing this in the gh-pages branch of their git repo, the get the side
effect that they can use Github as a preview of the site before publishing
to Apache infra.

Works very well and is very low maintenance burden.  It is also simple
enough to be completely predictable.



On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 12:43 AM, Benedikt Ritter brit...@apache.org wrote:

 2015-01-08 9:26 GMT+01:00 Sergio Fernández wik...@apache.org:

  Hi Benedikt,
 
  what's the different between the workflow you're suggesting and using the
  doxia-module-markdown module for building the site with Maven?
 

 Probably there's no difference. I was just unaware of the
 doxia-module-markdown. Damn, every time I thing I have a good idea,
 somebody else has implemented it already ;-)

 Thanks!
 Benedikt


 
  In Marmotta we use that, but we're open to fresh ideas in case we could
  address some minor issues (page titles, variables replacement, etc) we
  currently have.
 
  Cheers,
 
 
  On 08/01/15 09:20, Benedikt Ritter wrote:
 
  I've been thinking about extending the maven site build so that it can
  create a markdown version of a projects site, which could then be
  committed
  to a gh-pages branch for git based projects. Would anybody be interested
  in
  joining such an endeavor?
 
  Benedikt
 
  2015-01-07 21:36 GMT+01:00 Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) 
  ross.gard...@microsoft.com:
 
   The answer to your question is different depending on what xyz is in
  http://xyz.apache.org
 
  Probably the most common answer is
 http://www.apache.org/dev/cmsref.html
 
  Microsoft Open Technologies, Inc.
  A subsidiary of Microsoft Corporation
 
  -Original Message-
  From: jay vyas [mailto:jayunit100.apa...@gmail.com]
  Sent: Wednesday, January 7, 2015 12:30 PM
  To: dev@community.apache.org
  Subject: Re: WELCOME to dev@community.apache.org
 
  thanks daniel...
 
here at bigtop we are 100% git based.  so having an svn account ,
 just
  to
  push changes to a site, seems to slow us down alot.
 
  is SVN required  ? or is there another way?
 
  right now we have a system that uses maven, followed by svn and then we
  have to approve the changes in the web ui.
 
  would rather just push static html pages to our git repo , the way we
  push
  everything else.
 
  are all apache projects using SVN or do some folks have an easier
  workflow
  ?
 
 
 
 
 
 
  On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 3:12 PM, Daniel Gruno humbed...@apache.org
  wrote:
 
   Essentially, github uses the same method as we do with svnpubsub.
  Files are pushed to a repository and then from there pushed directly
  to the web site.
 
  Is there anything specific about the github model that you think
  differ from how we do things?
  Apart from it being git and not subversion, obviously.
 
  With regards,
  Daniel.
 
  On 2015-01-07 21:06, jay vyas wrote:
 
   Hi apache !
 
  Whats the simplest way to maintain the xyz.apache.org site?  Right
  now we push to SVN, but would be great to use something like the
  github.io model, where the static pages are just hosted directly.
 
 
  On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 2:56 PM, dev-h...@community.apache.org
 wrote:
 
Hi! This is the ezmlm program. I'm managing the
 
  dev@community.apache.org mailing list.
 
  I'm working for my owner, who can be reached at
  dev-ow...@community.apache.org.
 
  Acknowledgment: I have added the address
 
   jayunit100.apa...@gmail.com
 
  to the dev mailing list.
 
  Welcome to dev@community.apache.org!
 
  Please save this message so that you know the address you are
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Re: GitHub pages for git based Apache projects (Was: Re: Managing zyz.apache.org (was RE: WELCOME to dev@community.apache.org))

[Ted Dunning]

On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 3:29 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz bdelacre...@apache.org
wrote:

 Hi,

 On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 10:14 AM, Ted Dunning ted.dunn...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  ...Apache Drill has been doing something like this for some time.  They
 use
  Jekyll from Github to render markdown as HTML and then commit the HTML to
  SVN to that pubsub carries it to the right places...

 Do you have URLs that show how that works? DeviceMap might be interested.


https://github.com/apache/drill/tree/gh-pages

See the README

Also http://jekyllrb.com/

Re: A maturity model for Apache projects

[Ted Dunning]

These are *open* source.  Plotting strategy for marketing on a private list
has no place in Apache projects.  Private lists have very limited
appropriate uses and that policy has served Apache very well.



On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 11:48 AM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org
wrote:

 On 06/01/2015 Daniel Gruno wrote:

 projects unfortunately have a tendency to use their private lists for
 much more than committer votes and security issues, which I find is bad
 practice.


 If you as a project had a competitor, possibly a proprietary one, would
 you discuss marketing strategy in public? Would you expect the same from
 your competitor? This is a purely theoretical issue, but some projects
 might be facing it. I don't have a clear-cut answer here. Maybe the answer
 is yes, but in practice journalists expect to use confidential channels. So
 press/marketing strategy might, and I repeat might, be among the
 discussions allowed on the private list. Marketing activities instead, as
 opposed to strategy, must surely be discussed on public lists.

 Regards,
   Andrea.

Re: A maturity model for Apache projects

[Ted Dunning]

On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 3:36 PM, Louis Suárez-Potts lui...@gmail.com wrote:


  On 6 Jan 2015, at 18:09, jan i j...@apache.org wrote:
 
  On Wednesday, January 7, 2015, Ted Dunning ted.dunn...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
  These are *open* source.  Plotting strategy for marketing on a private
 list
  has no place in Apache projects.  Private lists have very limited
  appropriate uses and that policy has served Apache very well.
 
  +1
 
  jan i
 

 Say you are right. But in the “real world,” defined by personal experience
 and hearsay, the result of such policies (and such tones in their
 articulation) is to have discussions entirely off-list. Open source is
 meant to be a vehicle by which free collaboration is enabled now and later.
 As we’ve surely discussed in the past, in different contexts (at least I
 have; I can only assume that if you are reading this you have, too),
 there’s usually a tension between what the world expects and what we would
 like to do in open source. And sometimes the balance is against us.


In such situations, I become an advocate of closed source.  If you aren't
going to walk the walk and do things in an open, community-oriented way,
then it really is better to call a spade a spade and make the code be
closed source.  You can move faster, productively employ genius prima donas
and hatch all the secret plans you desire.

I would much rather call a spade a spade and get back to work rather than
allow a project to veer in to the open source / closed community category.
In my experience, being stuck in the closed community state is probably a
great indicator of excessive fascination with the Apache brand.

Oddly enough, I have also seen the opposite case of code that is
unabashedly closed source being very open to input and community action.
Paradoxical.

Re: ApacheBookStore.com

[Ted Dunning]

On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 11:27 AM, jan i j...@apache.org wrote:

 On 13 October 2014 16:30, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote:

  Rich,
 
  How about drop shipments directly from the publishing party, if they can
  handle that? That way no inventory would be required.
 
  With OFBiz The ASF can take the ordersin (not only for books, but also
  promotion stuff like t-shirts, banners, buttons, etc), accept the payment
  (credit card, etc) and send the supply order to the party handling the
 drop
  shipments.
 
 Technically I am sure OFBiz can handle it, but how does this work with our
 non-profit status, I am not sure we can freely sell goods without paying
 taxes.



The ASF will absolutely have to pay taxes and the rules will vary for every
city in the US (not to mention every other jurisdiction in the world).

Expecting that Apache has the resources to actually run a full-scale
e-commerce business with reasonable tax and PCI compliance is absolutely
nuts (in my oh so very humble opinion based on having built 2 substantial
consumer businesses and been very involved in 2 major anti-fraud companies).

Volunteer staffing for any significant e-commerce effort is simply not
sufficient.

Re: ApacheCon CFP status

[Ted Dunning]

We still have to strike a balance at the conference level.  I think that
the questions to the PMC's will have to be of the form: We have N
submissions in your area, please pick m of these.  That will let the PMC's
pick within their area while the conference as a whole can find the balance
between, say, Mesos and Yarn or whatever other overlapping projects exist.



On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 5:39 AM, Rich Bowen rbo...@rcbowen.com wrote:


 On 02/05/2014 12:39 AM, Ross Gardler wrote:

 Generally I am finding the proposals to be pretty good (as they usually
 are).

 With respect to de-duping I suggest we stay focused on reviewing talks
 independent of other submissions at this point. It is likely that some of
 the supplicates will just drop out at this first review. Rich can then
 work
 with the appropriate PMCs to de-dupe more fully (Rich I'm happy to help
 with this process)

 Yes, that will be very helpful.


 --
 Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com - @rbowen
 http://apachecon.com/ - @apachecon

Re: Edit the ApacheCon Banner on Website

[Ted Dunning]

I see Denver.

Probably you have some browser caching issues and aren't really seeing the
current state of the page.  It is also possible that there is caching in
the network somewhere and a significant number of people are seeing the old
content.

Can you force a complete reload of the page?  If you have more than one
browser on your machine, you might try with the less used one.

If you have done that recently and still see the problem, then debugging
further will require knowing quite a bit more about what is happening in
your browser.

This debugging starts with browser version info and some detailed
information about your network location, but then you will need to figure
out exactly whether your browser is trying to load the right version of the
page and if so exactly where it is trying to get it from.  But try the
reload or off-axis browser first.




On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 6:31 AM, Melissa Warnkin missywarn...@yahoo.comwrote:

 Well I have no idea what's going on, but I'm still seeing Portland!!




 
  From: Bertrand Delacretaz bdelacre...@apache.org
 To: dev dev@community.apache.org; Melissa Warnkin 
 missywarn...@yahoo.com
 Cc: Mark Thomas ma...@apache.org; infrastructure-priv...@apache.org 
 infrastructure-priv...@apache.org; Rich Bowen rbo...@rcbowen.com;
 Melissa Warnkin e...@apache.org; Ross Gardler rgard...@opendirective.com
 Sent: Thursday, February 6, 2014 3:08 AM
 Subject: Re: Edit the ApacheCon Banner on Website


 On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 10:37 PM, Melissa Warnkin missywarn...@yahoo.com
 wrote:
  While I appreciate your efforts tremendously, I hate to tell you that
 it's still showing Portland. :(...

 I have now fixed Mark's fix of my fix in the projects/html/pa/pa.json file
 ;-)

 Right now http://projects.apache.org/ shows no ad and it should show
 Denver in a few hours.


 -Bertrand

Re: ApacheCon CFP status

[Ted Dunning]

I confirm this impression.

There is a similar glut of Cordova talks.  In the Cordova talks, however,
many of the submissions are from the same few people and the talks are
very, very similar.

A smaller set of near duplicates occurs in Solr where a number of speakers
have volunteered a State of Lucene (or Solr or SolrCloud) without
providing any further ideas about content or any other way to distinguish
the proposals.

A deduping round would be very helpful.



On Mon, Feb 3, 2014 at 10:22 AM, Roman Shaposhnik r...@apache.org wrote:

 Buy now I've reviewed most of the talks submitted in the areas
 I'm familiar with (mostly Hadoop ecosystem). Beyond the feedback
 I left in the system two trends emerged:
1. there are a lot of different talks submitted around Hadoop's YARN
2. there are a lot of different talks submitted around Apache Hive

 Both technologies are extremely important and useful, but I'm not
 sure with the slot pressure the way it is we can accommodate all of
 them.

 Question: is there any way of reaching back to the authors of these
 submissions and asking them to do a bit of folding/refactoring? After
 all, there's always a chance to co-present (which may even be better
 from a community building/bonding perspective).

 Thanks,
 Roman.

 On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 4:48 AM, Rich Bowen rbo...@rcbowen.com wrote:
  With the CFP closed (officially ... it appears that there are still talks
  coming in ... geez) we have 250+ talk proposals, including:
 
  7 lightning talks
  15 tutorials
  1 mini-summit (ie, a whole track managed by itself)
  3 labs (I don't know what labs are. Do you think they meant tutorials?)
 
  Which leaves us with approx 226 talks to slot into approx 165 actual
  sessions. So we have to identify 60 talks that we're not going to run, or
  which can be fallback sessions, ie, a speaker who is already scheduled,
 who
  has a talk that they're willing to give on an as-needed basis. In the
 past
  we've needed anywhere from zero to 4 fallbacks per day.
 
  So, if you're on the reviewer list, get started.
 
  I know that the CFP system isn't ideal, so if you have comments you'd
 like
  to make about it, please keep track of them so that we can get them to
 the
  LF folks for next time. I know I have some of my own already.
 
  And if you're the IRC type, come hang out on #apachecon on Freenode,
 where
  we've been discussing things on and off.
 
  --
  Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com - @rbowen
  http://apachecon.com/ - @apachecon
 

Re: ApacheCon content committee

[Ted Dunning]

Rich,

Many projects have only a single person listed per project.  In some cases,
it is a person with a strong point of view that is strongly influenced by
their non-Apache life.

Other important projects have nobody listed.

Are submissions going to be curated by the group as a whole?  Or only by
the person listed?




On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 10:48 AM, Rich Bowen rbo...@rcbowen.com wrote:

 I've put the ApacheCon content committee listing at
 https://wiki.apache.org/apachecon/ContentCommitteeNA2014

 If you're not listed there, and you'd like to help curate content for the
 conference, please add your project and name there. Thanks.

 --
 Rich Bowen
 rbo...@rcbowen.com
 http://rcbowen.com/

Re: Question Related to Mahout

[Ted Dunning]

In addition to the web site link that the other respondent gave you, you
can send email to u...@mahout.apache.org instead of here.


On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 10:05 AM, Pramod Gaur pramodgau...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi All,

 I am Research student who want to start working Mahout. Can you please
 provide the steps to install Mahout on Windows 7 64 Bit Machine. If there
 is any Mailing group please let me know how to get registered.


 Regards,
 Pramod Gaur

Re: Content Committee, ApacheCon 2014

[Ted Dunning]

I can help for Mahout, Drill and Zookeeper.


On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 11:19 AM, Grant Ingersoll gsing...@apache.orgwrote:

 I can help for Lucene and Mahout.

 -Grant

 On Dec 13, 2013, at 1:46 PM, Neha Narkhede neha.narkh...@gmail.com
 wrote:

  I can help with content selection from Kafka PMC.
 
  Thanks,
  Neha
 
 
  On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 2:18 AM, Lewis John Mcgibbney 
 lewis.mcgibb...@gmail.com wrote:
  Hey Rich,
  Is there any timescale on when the input is required?
  I am interested in getting involved in reviewing content again but until
 I
  see or have an idea of the content I don't know which PMC I would
 volunteer
  to represent.
  Is there somewhere else that this conversation can continue other than
 pmcs@
  ?
  Thanks very much
  Lewis
 
 
  On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 7:52 PM, Rich Bowen rbo...@rcbowen.com wrote:
 
   Dear PMCs,
  
   In the coming days, we'll be hearing more about ApacheCon 2014, and
 what
   we need to do to make it happen.
  
   This time around, we, the folks at the ASF, will be responsible for
   selecting content, while the conference producer will be responsible
 for
   *EVERYTHING* else.
  
   Content selection is no small task, and I need help. While there are
   several people who have already volunteered to be part of a content
   selection committee, I'd also like to ask each PMC which wants to be
   represented in the selection process to volunteer one person to
 represent
   them in this task.
  
   We'll be using the RFP infrastructure supplied by the producer so all
   you'd be on the hook for is being willing to review a list of talk
   proposals specific to your project, and voting for/against them in some
   method which that RFP process provides. Final schedule construction
 falls
   to the producer, and, I suppose, to me.
  
   Thanks!
  
   --
   Rich Bowen
   rbo...@rcbowen.com
   http://rcbowen.com/
  
  
 
 
  --
  *Lewis*
 

 
 Grant Ingersoll | @gsingers
 http://www.lucidworks.com

Re: Pilot Mentoring Programme with India ICFOSS - Mentor Request Mail.

[Ted Dunning]

On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 11:14 PM, Dan Filimon dangeorge.fili...@gmail.comwrote:

 This is Dan (from Mahout). I'm writing here because for whatever reason
 your e-mail hasn't reached dev@mahout and I saw it here first.


I haven't seen that email on the Mahout list either.

Re: Setup development software for Macs?

[Ted Dunning]

Regardless of which you choose,

+1 non-deterministically for either brew or mac port.

Very useful.


On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 2:19 AM, Olivier Lamy ol...@apache.org wrote:

 Try http://brew.sh

 Yes brew vs mac port is probably like vi vs emacs :-)


 2013/6/27 Mark Struberg strub...@yahoo.de:
  probably the most important for me is mac ports. It's basically a BSD
 package manager with OSX packages. You can install all the *NIX stuff
 easily.
 
  There is also a graphical UI called Porticus.
 
  LieGrue,
  strub
 
 
 
 
  - Original Message -
  From: Roger and Beth Whitcomb rogerandb...@rbwhitcomb.com
  To: dev@community.apache.org
  Cc:
  Sent: Thursday, 27 June 2013, 6:21
  Subject: Re: Setup  development software for Macs?
 
  As far as basic text editors, TextWrangler is probably the best:
  http://www.barebones.com/products/textwrangler/ (and it's free). Also
  available via the App Store.  Although the XCode editor is very nice as
  well.  And I've used UltraEdit on a PC, and they now have a Mac version
  (cost is minimal) (
 http://www.ultraedit.com/products/mac-text-editor.html).
 
  ~Roger Whitcomb
 
  On 6/26/13 8:47 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
   I tested disk I/O before and after enabling FileVault and couldn't
  really
   tell the difference.  I also turned it on after I had quite a bit of
 stuff
   on the disk and it didn't take all that long to convert (considerably
  less
   than all night).
 
   Leave the firewall on.  It is very easy to poke and then repair holes
 when
   you need them.
 
 
 
   On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 6:31 PM, Luciano Resende
  luckbr1...@gmail.comwrote:
 
   On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 6:20 PM, Shane Curcuru
  a...@shanecurcuru.org
   wrote:
 
   I just switched to a Mac for much of my stuff, and am wondering how
  other
   committers organize their Macs and what kind of software they use.
 
   In particular, what's the best GUI-ish SVN clients?
 
   Your favorite basic text editors?  I don't need a big IDE, just
  simple
   markdown/python/ruby, and occasional web page editing.
 
   Also, a silly question, I know, but if I have my work on SSD, is
  there
   any
   reason that I should *not* configure FileVault?  It seems like a no
   brainer
   for any laptop.  Similarly, any reason to turn off the built-in
  Firewall?
 
   Related, what are decent options for parental control software for
  macs 
   iPads?  It's obvious that we will need some way to restrict and
  monitor
   what our daughter does on the computer...
 
   Thanks in advance!
 
   - Shane
 
   Take a look at this, seems like some good pointers :
   http://www.josebrowne.com/from-windows-to-mac-dev.html
 
   Also, install Xcode command line tools, that should give you most of
  what
   you need (e.g. svn, git, and some other stuff required for basic dev)
 
   As for FileVault, I use that with no issues (and you know, it's
  kind
   required by our employers... in case you ever use your mac for
  work)
   but if you choose to do it, do it now, while you don't have much
  content on
   the SSD. Firewall is always ON as well.
 
   --
   Luciano Resende
   http://people.apache.org/~lresende
   http://twitter.com/lresende1975
   http://lresende.blogspot.com/
 
 



 --
 Olivier Lamy
 Ecetera: http://ecetera.com.au
 http://twitter.com/olamy | http://linkedin.com/in/olamy

Re: Setup development software for Macs?

[Ted Dunning]

I tested disk I/O before and after enabling FileVault and couldn't really
tell the difference.  I also turned it on after I had quite a bit of stuff
on the disk and it didn't take all that long to convert (considerably less
than all night).

Leave the firewall on.  It is very easy to poke and then repair holes when
you need them.



On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 6:31 PM, Luciano Resende luckbr1...@gmail.comwrote:

 On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 6:20 PM, Shane Curcuru a...@shanecurcuru.org
 wrote:

  I just switched to a Mac for much of my stuff, and am wondering how other
  committers organize their Macs and what kind of software they use.
 
  In particular, what's the best GUI-ish SVN clients?
 
  Your favorite basic text editors?  I don't need a big IDE, just simple
  markdown/python/ruby, and occasional web page editing.
 
  Also, a silly question, I know, but if I have my work on SSD, is there
 any
  reason that I should *not* configure FileVault?  It seems like a no
 brainer
  for any laptop.  Similarly, any reason to turn off the built-in Firewall?
 
  Related, what are decent options for parental control software for macs 
  iPads?  It's obvious that we will need some way to restrict and monitor
  what our daughter does on the computer...
 
  Thanks in advance!
 
  - Shane
 

 Take a look at this, seems like some good pointers :
 http://www.josebrowne.com/from-windows-to-mac-dev.html

 Also, install Xcode command line tools, that should give you most of what
 you need (e.g. svn, git, and some other stuff required for basic dev)

 As for FileVault, I use that with no issues (and you know, it's kind
 required by our employers... in case you ever use your mac for work)
 but if you choose to do it, do it now, while you don't have much content on
 the SSD. Firewall is always ON as well.

 --
 Luciano Resende
 http://people.apache.org/~lresende
 http://twitter.com/lresende1975
 http://lresende.blogspot.com/

Re: Seoul Tajo Meetup

[Ted Dunning]

Talking in Korean will definitely decrease the demand from outside of
Korea.  As long as you summarize on-list and decide there, I don't think it
is all that different from simply being in an inconvenient time-zone.


On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 11:03 AM, Ross Gardler
rgard...@opendirective.comwrote:

 It is great to hear of your efforts. Ted already provided valuable
 feedback. The most important being if it didn't happen on the list it
 didn't happen - as Ted says this doesn't mean you can't do face to face
 meetings, just that they can only develop proposals that must later be
 shared with the list.

 You should also be aware that the events are supported by the conference
 committee. I've cc'd that list for you so they are aware of your efforts.
 The approval process is one of lazy consensus so you need take no further
 action as you already indicated PPMC involvement, which is the maim
 prerequisite.

 Let us, or concom know if you need any support and please let us know how
 you get on.

 Ross

 Sent from a mobile device, please excuse mistakes and brevity
 On 31 Mar 2013 07:54, Hyunsik Choi hyun...@apache.org wrote:

  Hi all,
 
  I'm a PPMC member of Tajo poddling. I will host a local meetup for Tajo
 in
  Seoul, South Korea. You can see the mailing thread about this meetup from
  http://markmail.org/message/kzselcwriwssjzve.
 
  I'm a newbie in ComDev. This is my first meetup for some ASF project. If
  there are things that I should know about hosting a local meetup, please
  let me know.
 
  Best regards,
  Hyunsik
 

Re: GSoC Temporary commit access accounts

[Ted Dunning]

I completely agree with this.

Mahout has worked on just this basis quite well.

Where it is deemed important for students to be allowed to commit changes,
we have used github as a temporary work area, but all changes committed to
the project code have been committed by actual committers with the
concurrence of the rest of the committers.  We watch to make sure that
temporary work areas do not involve inadvertent inclusion of code not
produced by the students.

I haven't observed a need for any partial committer status.  I certainly
don't see any need to issue apache.org email addresses to students.

On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 11:44 PM, Luciano Resende luckbr1...@gmail.comwrote:

 As the PMC overseeing the GSoC program at Apache, I'd like to see a
 set of recommendations, guidelines and if necessary processes on how
 to handle these cases. Having said that, I believe students are and
 should be treated as any other community contributor, that have design
 discussions on the project mailing list, and provides patch towards
 earning trust and committership status as a community recognition of
 his contributions.

 What are your thoughts on what should be the official recommendation,
 and based on that we can discuss required processes.

Re: Capturing mail (was Re: Stackoverflow)

[Ted Dunning]

A student popped up a while ago on the Mahout mailing with a very nice
little magic program that would sift through email archives to find good
question/answer pairs in email threads.

The results were quite impressively good.  The program didn't find a lot of
pairs, but the pairs it did find were uniformly pretty excellent.

Maybe a secondary search index based on the output of such a program would
be useful.

On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 3:20 AM, Ross Gardler rgard...@apache.org wrote:

 Sent from my mobile device (so please excuse typos)

 On 13 May 2011, at 02:31, David Blevins david.blev...@gmail.com wrote:

  For me tagging and voting and (i forgot) the marking the question
 answered (thanks, Benson) are the parts I would love.
 
  I write some really good responses sometimes and even *I* have a hard
 time finding some of my old responses in the list archive haystack.

 Right. I always ask users to provide a patch if they find an answer in the
 mailing list useful. Of course it rarely happens (even with devs).

 Keeping things simple, could we provide a feature in the CMS that simply
 copies a mail from our archives (with backlinks) into the CMS system for the
 appropriate project?

 A link to this could also be provided in the footer of each mail (only
 works for committers).

 In the CMS we could have some magic system to build an index.

 I appreciate this has now moved away from stack overflow (I changed the
 subject) but for any Perl hackers looking for something useful to do on a
 weekend I would certainly use such a feature.

 This could grow to fancy tagging, tracking and more. But I believe thus is
 a reasonably simple thin to do that would provide immediate benefits.

 Ross

 
  And to avoid the tag names can be spam issue having so that only
 committers can introduce new tags would be fine for me.  It could be a file
 in svn or something else equally lame but functional.
 
 
  -David
 
  On May 12, 2011, at 6:04 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
 
  There is another factor that comes into play.  QA sites like SO also
 blend
  in wiki and trust mechanisms.  Thus, highly rated users can and do
 rewrite
  questions to be more answerable/understandable.  They can also rewrite
  answers if necessary.
 
  Without automated karma, the moderation function has to be granted
 manually
  which is a process that doesn't scale as easily and is subject to attack
 by
  cabals.  That way lies wikipedia's dictatorship of the editor
 proletariat
  and associated drop in user participation.  That is fine for a largely
  static knowledge base, but SO addresses much more dynamic topics in a
 way
  that engages the readership much more strongly.  Moreover, the feedback
  cycle essentially guarantees that the moderators reflect the interests
 of
  the voting public.
 
  On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 5:47 PM, David Blevins david.blev...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
  Another thought.  Sometimes I wonder how hard it would be to just allow
  tagging and voting on top of a plain mailing list emails.  A simple DB
 with
  the messageId as the key for tags and vote count then a slightly
 fancier
  archive view than we have now.   And hey, markdown happens to look nice
 as
  plain email.  I've actually been indenting code snippets for years.
 
  I admit I like getting SO points and badges but they do not factor in
 at
  all when looking for the right answer.
 
 

Re: Stackoverflow

[Ted Dunning]

There is another factor that comes into play.  QA sites like SO also blend
in wiki and trust mechanisms.  Thus, highly rated users can and do rewrite
questions to be more answerable/understandable.  They can also rewrite
answers if necessary.

Without automated karma, the moderation function has to be granted manually
which is a process that doesn't scale as easily and is subject to attack by
cabals.  That way lies wikipedia's dictatorship of the editor proletariat
and associated drop in user participation.  That is fine for a largely
static knowledge base, but SO addresses much more dynamic topics in a way
that engages the readership much more strongly.  Moreover, the feedback
cycle essentially guarantees that the moderators reflect the interests of
the voting public.

On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 5:47 PM, David Blevins david.blev...@gmail.comwrote:

 Another thought.  Sometimes I wonder how hard it would be to just allow
 tagging and voting on top of a plain mailing list emails.  A simple DB with
 the messageId as the key for tags and vote count then a slightly fancier
 archive view than we have now.   And hey, markdown happens to look nice as
 plain email.  I've actually been indenting code snippets for years.

 I admit I like getting SO points and badges but they do not factor in at
 all when looking for the right answer.

Re: Recognizing non-{code,docs,bits} contributors

[Ted Dunning]

Put them in the list of contributors at least.

And frankly, I was asked to be a committer on Mahout largely based on
similar contributions (with some code).  I have subsequently
contributed quite a bit of code, but the original offer was made somewhat
speculatively.  If these contributors of yours
were able to fix javadocs and other documentation autonomously, the project
would be better off, right?


On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 12:41 PM, Hyrum K Wright hy...@hyrumwright.orgwrote:

 Quick question for ComDev folks: Over in the Subversion project, we've
 had a number of people who have contributed in somewhat intangible
 ways.  There are several denizens of the us...@subversion.apache.org
 mailing list who know how to use Subversion far beyond many of the
 developers' capabilities, and who are valuable assets to the
 Subversion community at large.

 What's a good way to reward these individuals?  If somebody were
 submitting patches as fast as these folks answer questions, they'd
 have commit privileges long ago, and probably be on the PMC by now.
 But in this case, the contributions are much more intangible, though
 just as important.  How can we reward / recognize these people (thus
 encouraging them to continue to participate by having an ownership
 stake in the project)?

 -Hyrum

Re: [proposal] integrating womAn@a.o into an Apache code of practice

[Ted Dunning]

I'll take some if you are offering.

On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 9:58 AM, Benson Margulies bimargul...@gmail.comwrote:

 No argument with that. Though there are some days on members@ where I feel
 like someone needs to hand out juice and cookies.

Re: Forward planning

[Ted Dunning]

Is that URL correctly spelled?  (trasnfer?)

Mahout has a strong record of welcoming mentorees.  Keep us in mind as you
go forward.

On Sat, Jul 3, 2010 at 5:59 PM, Ross Gardler rgard...@apache.org wrote:

 I've been quite busy recently and as a result my activities here have taken
 a back sear. However, now that our conference [1] is out of the way I now
 have some time for ComDev again.

 The mentor programme is my primary interest for now (not that I think it is
 more important than the local speakers/mentors app, its just my personal
 focus). Starting in September I will have anything from 20-200 final year
 students from across the EU looking for mentors here at the ASF.

 These students will be part of a second pilot for an EU funded project. We
 have a number of lecturers and teaching assistants to look after them but we
 need practical projects and mentors. I'll be working with other foundations
 as well to ensure we have a good range of projects available.

 The EU project in question will be running two other pilots, so we've got
 loads of chances to get this ironed out.

 In a few moments I will create an issue to track this activity. Naturally I
 welcome any assistance on getting this going on the ASF side.

 Ross


 [1] http://trasnfersummit.com (thanks to Noirin and Bertrand for their
 representation there)

Re: Working on CouchDB or Hadoop

[Ted Dunning]

Sean,

Take a look at Cassandra, Hbase and Voldemort as well.  All provide
interesting variants on NOSQL capability.

On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 8:08 AM, Isabel Drost isa...@apache.org wrote:

 On 19.05.2010 Sean Bartell wrote:
  I was looking for something to do over the summer, and the mentoring
  program looked like a good choice. I've recently developed an interest
  in filesystems and NoSQL databases, so I'm interested in working on
  CouchDB or Hadoop. So far, I've messed around with CouchDB and submitted
  a small patch for a bug. Is one of these projects a better candidate for
  mentoring, or should I keep looking into both?

 I'd say that depends mostly on your own preference - namely in terms of
 programming language, the topics you are interested in. Usually it is
 easiest to
 get active at a project that you are actually using yourself.

 From your e-mail I conclude that you have some experience with CouchDB
 already.
 As for Hadoop: Did you have a look at the code base or the open issues in
 JIRA
 already? I guess you might want to have a closer look at the HDFS or HBase
 stuff.


  Also, if I decide I want to work on one, is that project's mailing list
 the
  right place to ask for project ideas?

 You might want to have a look at JIRA first - search for open issues you
 are
 interested in working on, there might be some issues marked as suitable for
 GSoC
 students. Those might be interesting for you as well.

 Going to the mailing lists and just asking for ideas of course is an idea
 as
 well. However working on Mahout and dealing with students there as well, I
 have
 the impression that students tend to be more successful when not told what
 to do
 but when choosing their tasks themselves.

 Isabel

Re: Reviewing the evaluation process

[Ted Dunning]

When mentoring, I also try to provide some gentle help on this by answering
any privately sent code questions in public by redirecting to the mailing
list.  I also send a gentle nudge pointing out that my answer is on the
mailing list and that they would get a faster answer on average if they
asked there in the first place.

On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 6:05 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz bdelacre...@apache.org
 wrote:

 On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 3:01 PM, Grant Ingersoll gsing...@apache.org
 wrote:
  ...More or less, here's what I tell them:
  1. I won't answer any development questions privately...
  2. The stuff I will answer privately has to do with you...

 I like this - I did work like that when mentoring students, without
 spelling it out as clearly as you did. Way to go.

Re: Reviewing the evaluation process

[Ted Dunning]

This is exactly the observation I have from the Mahout students.  I would
rather not have a project re-invent something that we already have, but I am
thrilled to have a student who is self-directed and horrified at the thought
of having a student who needs to be micro-managed.  Even if the
self-directed student starts in the right direction, they are enormously
more likely to wind up somewhere useful for the community.  Conversely, the
micro-managee might start with the best initial idea (mine, of course)  but
they will almost certainly wind up nowhere.

Academic-style originality is  a nearly orthogonal concept.

On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Rahul Akolkar rahul.akol...@gmail.comwrote:

 The motivation for original ideas isn't purely in the academic sense
 of it, but also in the observation that on average, those who come up
 with their own proposals feel more connected with the project at hand
 and are more likely to retain interest and drive the work to a
 successful completion.