Re: Community Track at ApacheCon Europe?
Hi all, I might not be that much versed in Apache terminology, but what is a 'community track'? And what are/is the definition of the other kind? Please help me understand? Regards, Pierre 2012/7/16 Nick Burch nick.bu...@alfresco.com Hi All I'm currently in the process of putting the proposed tracks for ApacheCon Europe into the website, and I noticed we don't currently have a community track proposed. I've really enjoyed past community tracks, and learnt a lot from them, so I think it'd be great if we could do one again. Is anyone able to volunteer to act as a track chair for the community track, so we can add it to the list? There's info on the apachecon-discuss list about what this role entails, but it isn't too much work. Any takers? Thanks Nick
Re: Community Track at ApacheCon Europe?
Hi Nick, If we explain it as not being project specific but as elaborating on the dynamics of OS communities in general and of Apache communities in particular, then I understand it. Regards, Pierre 2012/7/16 Nick Burch nick.bu...@alfresco.com On Mon, 16 Jul 2012, Pierre Smits wrote: I might not be that much versed in Apache terminology, but what is a 'community track'? And what are/is the definition of the other kind? Perhaps the best way to explain it is through the talks this track has hosted in the past. Over the past few years, we've had: * http://na11.apachecon.com/**talk/by_track/1401http://na11.apachecon.com/talk/by_track/1401 * http://archive.apachecon.com/**c/acna2010/schedule/gridhttp://archive.apachecon.com/c/acna2010/schedule/grid(scroll to Thursday, Room 4) * http://archive.apachecon.com/**c/acus2009/schedule/gridhttp://archive.apachecon.com/c/acus2009/schedule/grid(scroll to Thursday, Track 1) Does that give you some idea of what we normally put include? Nick
Re: Open Source Organizational Culture
Hi all, This is a good initiative to do regularly (e.g. yearly or bi-yearly), and it should be sponsored/guided by this project/community. It could/will help the ASF (specifically those involved in community building) to pinpoint which projects operate successfully (in the spirit of the Apache Foundation) and which should be offered assistance to improve. But it should be communicated to all within all projects. Regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 8:12 AM, Storm-Olsen, Marius marius.storm-ol...@student.bi.no wrote: On 5/2/2014 3:21 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote: On 22/04/2014 Storm-Olsen, Marius wrote: As part of the research into a thesis on Open Source Organizational Culture, I want to send out a short survey to the Apache organization. However, given that the Apache community is so large, with numerous individual projects under its umbrella, I wanted to check with the community list first; both to seek explicit permission for doing so, and to figure out what would be the best way to send out such a survey without spamming the community. ... http://bit.ly/OSOCAS2014 ... I believe that, for once, we have a survey that can be useful to the projects and not only to the student. We can even check with numbers whether our Community over code mantra is really perceived as such by contributors and whether it is considered an indicator for future success. Please extend your deadline by two weeks, send the survey link to d...@openoffice.apache.org and I'll endorse your request. I encourage others to take your survey too (link above) and to consider advertising the survey on the dev lists of other projects if they find it equally interesting. Hi Andrea, Thank you for getting back to me, I appreciate your time and effort. I will extend the deadline until May 15th, and send the request to the OpenOffice Dev list ASAP. Sincerely, Marius Storm-Olsen
Re: ComDev scope and lists
For sure, onboarding of newcomers is important. Same goes for committer relations. But how about contributor relations, mediation and such? Regards, Pierre Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 7:49 AM, Brett Porter br...@apache.org wrote: Hi ComDev PMC and other interested folks, From time to time, I hear someone suggest ComDev or its lists as a potential target for a foundation-wide activity that affects current committers. However, I've always thought of ComDev as being focused on those that are not here yet, rather than those that are - as the monthly report starts, The Community Development PMC is responsible for helping people become involved with Apache projects. Some roughly related discussion was held in in April 2013 [1] at Ross' initiation. However, it's not clear to me whether there was any decision taken in the end. If I look over the archives since, it's related to mentoring, GSoC, small events and ApacheCon, with one exception being a large release cadence discussion - which seems to confirm my expectation. The current composition of the PMC also seems to reflect people with that sort of expertise. Possibly it's just my personal bugbear, but my concern with sending traffic to a list that doesn't feel empowered to act on it is that it often ends up in discussion with very little decision making. In addition to this list, ComDev stewards commun...@apache.org, but that is much less frequently used now. I feel like the ASF is seeing a pattern where we need something like committer relations, that can focus on providing resources and assistance to any committer, while not interfering with individual project boundaries. I'm willing to take up that initiative with others interested - but also quite happy to acknowledge it might be more overhead than value if existing groups can address that need. The first thing I wanted to do was clarify whether ComDev already feels like it has this responsibility in whole or part. So, my questions are: - have I read ComDev's scope correctly, or should it be expanded to include resources for current committers? - regardless of scope, how does the PMC feel about its lists being used to reach out to committers for discussion or updates? - what does the PMC see as the current purpose of commun...@apache.org vs this list? Thanks for indulging me :) Cheers, Brett [1] http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/community-dev/201304.mbox/%3CCAKQbXgDL55M9sBXigm8Wmwgk7K0hVGtWEOrCTVWfQ9EgthG%2B3A%40mail.gmail.com%3E
Re: ApacheCon EU CFP Review - Help needed
I am happy to assist in the review. My id is: PierreSmits Regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 4:50 PM, Rich Bowen rbo...@rcbowen.com wrote: The ApacheCon EU CFP closes in a week, as you know. We need your help reviewing the talks that have been submitted. Those of you who helped with Denver are already on the list, but if there are other people that want to be involved in reviewing the content and selecting the schedule for ACEU, please let me know, and I'll get you added to the auth list. You can start reviewing any time by going to http://events.linuxfoundation.org/cfp/cfp-list?field_ presentation_event_target_id%5B%5D=2260 and wading in. I don't yet know how many tracks we'll end up with - it depends on what talks come in over the next week. I don't expect we'll do as many tracks as we did in Denver, though. Thanks. --Rich -- Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com - @rbowen http://apachecon.com/ - @apachecon
Re: ApacheCon EU CFP Review - Help needed
Rich, Thanks for adding me. Regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 2:29 PM, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote: I am happy to assist in the review. My id is: PierreSmits Regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 4:50 PM, Rich Bowen rbo...@rcbowen.com wrote: The ApacheCon EU CFP closes in a week, as you know. We need your help reviewing the talks that have been submitted. Those of you who helped with Denver are already on the list, but if there are other people that want to be involved in reviewing the content and selecting the schedule for ACEU, please let me know, and I'll get you added to the auth list. You can start reviewing any time by going to http://events.linuxfoundation.org/cfp/cfp-list?field_ presentation_event_target_id%5B%5D=2260 and wading in. I don't yet know how many tracks we'll end up with - it depends on what talks come in over the next week. I don't expect we'll do as many tracks as we did in Denver, though. Thanks. --Rich -- Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com - @rbowen http://apachecon.com/ - @apachecon
Re: ApacheCon CFP closed, now the hard work starts
Rich, Doesn't the number of talks per day or even track also depend on the duration of each talk? What is the goal (duration wise)? I have about 10 OFBiz talks lined up, but don't have a clue yet about how long each is intended to be. Regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 4:17 PM, Jan Willem Janssen janwillem.jans...@luminis.eu wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 26/06/14 15:47, Rich Bowen wrote: For those of you who have agreed to participate in filtering and selecting talks for Apachecon EU, the time has arrived. I already started reviewing a couple, but the CFP system has the tendency to lose my filter settings after each review :( Is there a way we can ping the nice folks at LF on fixing this? It would really make my reviewing experience a lot easier... - -- Met vriendelijke groeten | Kind regards Jan Willem Janssen | Software Architect +31 631 765 814 /My world is revolving around PulseOn and Amdatu/ Luminis Technologies B.V. J.C. Wilslaan 29 7313 HK Apeldoorn +31 88 586 46 30 http://www.luminis-technologies.com http://www.luminis.eu KvK (CoC) 09 16 28 93 BTW (VAT) NL8169.78.566.B.01 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.17 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJTrCuXAAoJEKF/mP2eHDc405sP+wXAUk+MWv04hjIFsqqQOK4I TeZhS73qsl8+ceksajJgXgOFnH5uNNW3w/Gk7ZZEvwmBV0vYS+enn4Dc4dYnuY4h +T9Kwsy5NyVc3/zuBaVJX2Ig9n6/M+2t4JjXP7tizyLd+anCuJPu3HslmhwPZ8Pr rpep0dNRivkqhqyK7wr/7bQRinN2FHfcIX/J27FTf6P8Mq67WV4ssrTU3fxJEtRf KrCmRutU6W+3cWGdCyWGHIjs9FIYQyCgkmBrbh0fOSmt5Wi44DFHQe+2e/aDiIF3 IaYVQxjFLGgXWmFj9Zo8yzXQrEQLl/t2KygRM2yU3QzC6AHEw0SB2nOju0YFRuLr d21h3wEnxFMfmkv8urJkDpBGstu9RoHUS/tA3XMSFk4wvqX5QOEUptZY4gRsl/S+ /q+37OJRDv8Eawgr+YD52YoLOAqEIdHh8z/kBE5cQRMlD4rL/mpktHEzZKQ7nvN8 bH2fDSO9SBInLXpQzTLnxMuWjLuQpZkGwtV/u8B2BWGZHzp4jy/DT4CK5Vd4EtlU 4gAPb4o8xTfcKKz1eMPJpz5CrNU+46iX6NrkTVwiayOjCvW1YpLYYe8X3NVAjWc5 dNKzCMI71AX8BRX3sBoiulPwZqledivJhrUZfyCFBk2sLxyxb6L55r045PyEJAMG DCpZRkfZ4MLKBVjRsujM =j7OG -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: ApacheCon CFP closed, now the hard work starts
Rich, Thanks, I will confer with the submitters to see where stuff can be combined. Regards, Pierre Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 5:18 PM, Rich Bowen rbo...@rcbowen.com wrote: On 06/26/2014 10:20 AM, Pierre Smits wrote: Rich, Doesn't the number of talks per day or even track also depend on the duration of each talk? What is the goal (duration wise)? I have about 10 OFBiz talks lined up, but don't have a clue yet about how long each is intended to be. The assumption is 50-minute talks, which gives a 6 hour day, plus breaks and lunch. Some tracks (eg, Fast Feather) do different talk lengths, and we're open to that if you want to discuss a different track format. Just let me know soonish. --Rich Regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 4:17 PM, Jan Willem Janssen janwillem.jans...@luminis.eu wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 26/06/14 15:47, Rich Bowen wrote: For those of you who have agreed to participate in filtering and selecting talks for Apachecon EU, the time has arrived. I already started reviewing a couple, but the CFP system has the tendency to lose my filter settings after each review :( Is there a way we can ping the nice folks at LF on fixing this? It would really make my reviewing experience a lot easier... - -- Met vriendelijke groeten | Kind regards Jan Willem Janssen | Software Architect +31 631 765 814 /My world is revolving around PulseOn and Amdatu/ Luminis Technologies B.V. J.C. Wilslaan 29 7313 HK Apeldoorn +31 88 586 46 30 http://www.luminis-technologies.com http://www.luminis.eu KvK (CoC) 09 16 28 93 BTW (VAT) NL8169.78.566.B.01 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.17 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJTrCuXAAoJEKF/mP2eHDc405sP+wXAUk+MWv04hjIFsqqQOK4I TeZhS73qsl8+ceksajJgXgOFnH5uNNW3w/Gk7ZZEvwmBV0vYS+enn4Dc4dYnuY4h +T9Kwsy5NyVc3/zuBaVJX2Ig9n6/M+2t4JjXP7tizyLd+anCuJPu3HslmhwPZ8Pr rpep0dNRivkqhqyK7wr/7bQRinN2FHfcIX/J27FTf6P8Mq67WV4ssrTU3fxJEtRf KrCmRutU6W+3cWGdCyWGHIjs9FIYQyCgkmBrbh0fOSmt5Wi44DFHQe+2e/aDiIF3 IaYVQxjFLGgXWmFj9Zo8yzXQrEQLl/t2KygRM2yU3QzC6AHEw0SB2nOju0YFRuLr d21h3wEnxFMfmkv8urJkDpBGstu9RoHUS/tA3XMSFk4wvqX5QOEUptZY4gRsl/S+ /q+37OJRDv8Eawgr+YD52YoLOAqEIdHh8z/kBE5cQRMlD4rL/mpktHEzZKQ7nvN8 bH2fDSO9SBInLXpQzTLnxMuWjLuQpZkGwtV/u8B2BWGZHzp4jy/DT4CK5Vd4EtlU 4gAPb4o8xTfcKKz1eMPJpz5CrNU+46iX6NrkTVwiayOjCvW1YpLYYe8X3NVAjWc5 dNKzCMI71AX8BRX3sBoiulPwZqledivJhrUZfyCFBk2sLxyxb6L55r045PyEJAMG DCpZRkfZ4MLKBVjRsujM =j7OG -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com - @rbowen http://apachecon.com/ - @apachecon
Re: ApacheCon CFP closed, now the hard work starts
Rich, Including a column that shows the main project involved might also help. Regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 5:23 PM, Rich Bowen rbo...@rcbowen.com wrote: On 06/26/2014 10:20 AM, Joe Brockmeier wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 06/26/2014 09:17 AM, Jan Willem Janssen wrote: I already started reviewing a couple, but the CFP system has the tendency to lose my filter settings after each review :( Is there a way we can ping the nice folks at LF on fixing this? It would really make my reviewing experience a lot easier... Last time I reviewed something in the LF's CfP system, they said it was OK to just download the CSV file and work through it in a spreadsheet. I too find the system a bit cumbersome, though the CSV is only marginally less so. If it's OK with C. this time around, you could do that instead. I've got a spreadsheet at https://docs.google.com/a/ rcbowen.com/spreadsheets/d/1NSFxoGYkzpkorJkRN7CNnZpsaO59q ro3L5YjeTBVSZE/edit#gid=0 where I'll be attempting to break stuff up into tracks. What we did last time was that - we had a spreadsheet, we divided it into topics, and went through and marked stuff accepted or rejected based on CFP ratings. I've just started that process, and don't expect to get anything done today or tomorrow, but if we work together on the split into tracks bit, then there's much less for folks to review - you just review the topics that you know something about. Sound reasonable? --Rich -- Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com - @rbowen http://apachecon.com/ - @apachecon
Proposing for Apache Member?
Hi All, Is it possible that contributors of a project can propose a community member to be elected as an Apache Member? Regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com
Re: Proposing for Apache Member?
HI Rob, Thank you for your prompt reply. How would a ASF member become aware of potentials, if it weren't brought to their attention by others? Should they read-up on every mailing list available to establish such awareness for themselves? I don't regard such as feasible. I would say that bringing potentials to the awareness of ASF Members is acceptable behaviour for anyone who has the Apache Way in his/her heart. Like you could have guessed, I am not a member. Therefore, I don't have a say in what the by-laws of the ASF must be. But, in the spirit of community development - and the ASF is a community) we could set up a discussion whether or not article 4.1 should be extended in such a way that nominations by others (than members) can be submitted, and whether or not such nominations should be accompanied by a notice of sponsorship by an existing ASF Member. Regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 11:41 AM, Rob Vesse rve...@dotnetrdf.org wrote: Pierre Not unless one/more of those contributors is themselves a Member/Officer of the ASF - see Sectopn 4.1 of the Bylaws (http://apache.org/foundation/bylaws.html#4.1) which states the following: To be eligible for membership, a person or entity must be nominated by a current member of the corporation and must complete a written membership application in such form as shall be adopted by the Board of Directors from time to time Therefore contributors of a project can't directly, I guess they could talk to ASF members they know and suggest that person with the aim of getting a nomination but not being a member myself I'm not sure if that would be acceptable behaviour. Ultimately ASF is a meritocracy and my personal impression based on people who I know of who've become members in the past couple of years is that to become a member you need to be active across the foundation (not just within a small part of it) for a prolonged period. One thing worth asking is why the community you are involved in feels the need to have someone be elected as a Member? Rob On 08/07/2014 09:43, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote: Hi All, Is it possible that contributors of a project can propose a community member to be elected as an Apache Member? Regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com
Re: Proposing for Apache Member?
All, Taking into consideration that nominate and propose - in general and in this context - mean the same and that any contributor can propose potentials for ASF Membership, shouldn't the by-laws of the Foundation reflect this? Regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Sun, Jul 6, 2014 at 8:48 AM, Ross Gardler rgard...@opendirective.com wrote: Yes, of course a community member can propose a member. As Rob says, the nomination and election has to be done by the Members, but not all projects have existing members acting as the eyes and ears. Of course, not having members in a project community shouldn't impact the project since it is self-managing and membership is only a foundational level thing. Nevertheless, the membership needs to be a good cross-section of our project communities. If a community member feels someone is being overlooked a mail to priv...@community.apache.org will reach people who can add notes to the member watch list. This is the right list for discussing what we look for in members. Sent from my phone - please forgive brevity and typos -Original Message- From: Rob Vesse rve...@dotnetrdf.org Sent: 7/8/2014 10:42 To: dev@community.apache.org dev@community.apache.org Subject: Re: Proposing for Apache Member? Pierre Not unless one/more of those contributors is themselves a Member/Officer of the ASF - see Sectopn 4.1 of the Bylaws (http://apache.org/foundation/bylaws.html#4.1) which states the following: To be eligible for membership, a person or entity must be nominated by a current member of the corporation and must complete a written membership application in such form as shall be adopted by the Board of Directors from time to time Therefore contributors of a project can't directly, I guess they could talk to ASF members they know and suggest that person with the aim of getting a nomination but not being a member myself I'm not sure if that would be acceptable behaviour. Ultimately ASF is a meritocracy and my personal impression based on people who I know of who've become members in the past couple of years is that to become a member you need to be active across the foundation (not just within a small part of it) for a prolonged period. One thing worth asking is why the community you are involved in feels the need to have someone be elected as a Member? Rob On 08/07/2014 09:43, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote: Hi All, Is it possible that contributors of a project can propose a community member to be elected as an Apache Member? Regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com
Re: ApacheCon EU: What I need help with
Hi Rich, That first link that you included redirects to http://tm3.org Regards, Pierre Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 6:49 PM, Rich Bowen rbo...@rcbowen.com wrote: Thank you all for your enormous help so far. I can still use some help if we're going to make a *July 15th* deadline for CFP notifications. Here's what you can still do: The spreadsheet is at *http://tm3.org/aceu2014tracks* * Check the first tab. If something isn't in a track (ie, isn't color coded in any way), put it in one. Even if it's a track with only one thing in it. Otherwise it might get overlooked later on. * Check a track you know something about - if you disagree, move stuff to another track. Note that some tracks are topic based, while other tracks are project based. We want to build tracks that people will attend, not necessarily tracks that are 100% correctly categorized, so think about topics rather than just projects, if possible. * If a track is huge, consider splitting into logical subsets (days of the same track, maybe?) The Big Data track is a likely candidate for this, as is community. (Internal facing, vs external facing community, worked well as categorizations at ACNA.) * Within a track, sort by type - that is, list regular sessions first, then tutorials, then lightning talks and bofs, with a blank line between each group. * And, still, we need reviewers. There are a lot of unreviewed talks. That's at http://events.linuxfoundation.org/cfp/cfp-list?field_ presentation_event_target_id%5B%5D=2260 Thanks! On 06/30/2014 12:11 PM, Rich Bowen wrote: I need to call on all you find people who have offered help with ApacheCon. I didn't get anything done on it this weekend, and I don't want to be holding anybody up. These are the things that I can use help with. * Reviewing talks - if you're willing, please sign on to the CFP system - http://events.linuxfoundation.org/cfp/cfp-list?field_ presentation_event_target_id%5B%5D=2260 - and start rating talks. If you don't have authorization to get to that interface, please tell me and C. Craig Ross c...@linuxfoundation.org to get that fixed. * Sorting into tracks/categories. All of the talks are in a Google Doc at https://docs.google.com/a/rcbowen.com/spreadsheets/d/ 1NSFxoGYkzpkorJkRN7CNnZpsaO59qro3L5YjeTBVSZE/edit#gid=0 I need help dividing them up into tracks/topics/projects so that when we have the ratings, it'll be easy to identify which ones to select and how to divide them up. Please a) create a tab for what you think a topic should be, b) COPY (not move) the record from ALL TALKS to that tab, and c) highlight the entry on the ALL TALKS tab in a different color to indicate that it has been categorized. * If you are familiar with Budapest, help us with the content for http://wiki.apache.org/apachecon/BudapestTips * If your project is planning to participate in the hackathon, put some ideas at http://wiki.apache.org/apachecon/HackathonEU14 to get attendees excited about our on-site activities. * If your company is interested in sponsoring the event, but doesn't know how, please email me and Angela Brown ang...@linuxfoundation.org Thanks so much for any way that you can help, be it minutes our hours. --Rich -- rbo...@apache.org http://apache.org/
Re: Proposing for Apache Member?
It is a bit strange to read that 'Contributor' is not the official role for anybody who is committed to an Apache project. Equally strange is it to read that both the 'User' and the 'Developer' is defined/explained as the person who is contributing. Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 9:27 PM, Chip Childers chipchild...@apache.org wrote: On Tue, Jul 08, 2014 at 09:42:56PM +0300, Issac Goldstand wrote: Ross, So to clarify, not all ASF officers are necessarily ASF members? Correct. See: http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#roles
Re: Proposing for Apache Member?
Ross, How can it be that 'Contributor' is not an official 'hat'-definition in the (explanatory) pages of the ASF? While so much importance is placed on correct usage of terminology in projects and elsewhere, based on those pages. Shouldn't the document http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#roles be amended (with respect to definitons 'User' and 'Developer) in such a way that it reflects that? Regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 10:06 PM, Ross Gardler rgard...@opendirective.com wrote: Pierre, feel free to ask questions, but I don't see any in your last couple of mails. What can we clarify for you? Ross On 10 July 2014 04:56, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote: I not only tried reading, but I did. Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 11:24 PM, Ross Gardler rgard...@opendirective.com wrote: Try reading http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html On 9 Jul 2014 22:20, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote: It is a bit strange to read that 'Contributor' is not the official role for anybody who is committed to an Apache project. Equally strange is it to read that both the 'User' and the 'Developer' is defined/explained as the person who is contributing. Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 9:27 PM, Chip Childers chipchild...@apache.org wrote: On Tue, Jul 08, 2014 at 09:42:56PM +0300, Issac Goldstand wrote: Ross, So to clarify, not all ASF officers are necessarily ASF members? Correct. See: http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#roles
Re: ApacheCon EU: What I need help with
Rich I got the understanding that planned breaks are intended for coffee in the morning, lunch and coffee in the afternoon. Could you communicate the time slots for these, so that they can be included in tentative schedule planning? Regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com
Banner Apachecon on website pages
Hi All, Currently several pages are showing the banner for the Apachecon US 2014 event in Denver. Shouldn't we change that with the banner for the Apachecon EU 2014 event in Budapest? Regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com
Re: Banner Apachecon on website pages
Jan, The smalles image of the Apachecon UE 2014 event (at the FL site, see http://events.linuxfoundation.org/events/apachecon-europe/attend/web-badges) is, at best, marginally acceptable. It has a different size, and is more intended for people visiting who want to show it at their own page. Is this what is wanted by the ASF? Regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 11:29 AM, jan i j...@apache.org wrote: On 21 July 2014 11:24, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote: Jan, Thanks for expressing the confidence. But, is there already an approved image available for the Apachecon EU 2014 event? www.apachecon.eu. We typically use the same as LF uses. You might find a better one by going to LF home page, and then look under events. rgds jan I. Regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 11:12 AM, jan i j...@apache.org wrote: On 21 July 2014 11:08, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote: Hi All, Currently several pages are showing the banner for the Apachecon US 2014 event in Denver. Shouldn't we change that with the banner for the Apachecon EU 2014 event in Budapest? That would be a good idea except for the 1 or 2 places where the reference is really for the past ACNA in denver. You should be able to update most pages. rgds jan I Regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com
Re: Corrections for http://apacheconeu2014.sched.org/, where?
I am wondering about that too. Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 12:06 PM, Sergio Fernández wik...@apache.org wrote: In addition, I never used sched.org before, but it's really cool, it'd be nice to know how to claim your speaker profile: http://apacheconeu2014.sched.org/speaker/wikier On 24/07/14 09:49, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote: Hi (Rich mostly I guess), Should we report corrections for http://apacheconeu2014.sched.org/ here, or where? I have a few things for now: My company name says AEM, should be Adobe http://apacheconeu2014.sched.org/speaker/bdelacretaz The How Secure Your Framework Is talk title should probably be How Secure Is Your Web Framework? http://apacheconeu2014.sched.org/event/dfc8210caf242f4d2e1c926326b97188 There's an extra uppercase T in the Your Search doesn'T work talk title. HTH, -Bertrand -- Sergio Fernández Partner Technology Manager Redlink GmbH m: +43 660 2747 925 e: sergio.fernan...@redlink.co w: http://redlink.co
Re: Corrections for http://apacheconeu2014.sched.org/, where?
Jan, You mean the user name as used when registering the talk at the LF site? Regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 1:27 PM, Jan Willem Janssen janwillem.jans...@luminis.eu wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 24/07/14 13:22, Pierre Smits wrote: I am wondering about that too. IIRC, you need to create an account for sched.org with the same name. Otherwise, you can send the people of sched.org a mail to connect your sched.org account to the correct username. Found them very quick and friendly in their action and response. Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 12:06 PM, Sergio Fernández wik...@apache.org wrote: In addition, I never used sched.org before, but it's really cool, it'd be nice to know how to claim your speaker profile: http://apacheconeu2014.sched.org/speaker/wikier On 24/07/14 09:49, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote: Hi (Rich mostly I guess), Should we report corrections for http://apacheconeu2014.sched.org/ here, or where? I have a few things for now: My company name says AEM, should be Adobe http://apacheconeu2014.sched.org/speaker/bdelacretaz The How Secure Your Framework Is talk title should probably be How Secure Is Your Web Framework? http://apacheconeu2014.sched.org/event/dfc8210caf242f4d2e1c926326b97188 There's an extra uppercase T in the Your Search doesn'T work talk title. HTH, -Bertrand -- Sergio Fernández Partner Technology Manager Redlink GmbH m: +43 660 2747 925 e: sergio.fernan...@redlink.co w: http://redlink.co - -- Met vriendelijke groeten | Kind regards Jan Willem Janssen | Software Architect +31 631 765 814 /My world is revolving around INAETICS and Amdatu/ Luminis Technologies B.V. Churchillplein 1 7314 BZ Apeldoorn +31 88 586 46 00 http://www.luminis-technologies.com http://www.luminis.eu KvK (CoC) 09 16 28 93 BTW (VAT) NL8169.78.566.B.01 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.17 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJT0O2IAAoJEKF/mP2eHDc4n9AP/AjgHnpBar0/WrG/yNzKiFU8 SrxsQjnErKyluRLOVy1+MA8zWLuN3P60GKaHi3Ph9whkRq+ih/mjktawmOFcdWEe DImij1bDJcs4mXarYFMqqmxZeiH+UBABm8OkZh/o6wvLpFrrrapxdTC/fEx2uf8e xNTlUJvkbQyVgC3nS43q8gL2on8ue7XkDCK+Y6cK89h69ALYO31ZMOIB79kFNyFZ YKdvn1SaAUk4crTLgqC7/15GvUAsyKXs2zNTqLR21VR0ns1+ubLlTEZi7TKmHoMU dcMX5UpyZGRqkBEcPHKKWGiJ1HXw6Ku+mraLOj4w3b+X90NgRa0NXj5mcbtV6GWJ b8AkPSjHylbPWM+LB2tj+576iy2mG8IME/VsQHvcD9Ysa3Vt6KZYv07tdO8buOHa aSDZFDhUb1iaG/H+eyDGgGUTbxqq66NbhP+hI85N4Cp4OACGk2TcxbnkSujdvSTu DA/IW9D/NHYLVwc8cy9EV110cR9dR09h1CZcNiRR+5bLKhmOjYYUDa3Lt+7lHahc 4j1W1yJEh391AO0H4KKsYE84qoEKv3D7S2x3AAmTYhYQhnryXJA/k0T6uEM8teJn fThjcu2/0WjoGn5uSHV11Y5WgL8EN8sGHts3CPnHTEsu2z8cAW5jOEOCBN4H1Rfb DGCYwaIjcUAkrGOsfMJt =t1sM -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: more prominence for ASF activities?
I agree. The only link on the front page (homepage) of apache.org that comes in the neighbourhood of events is the conferences link. And this goes to a page that is shows a lot of information links, but not the events themselves. This page should be showing an overview of upcoming events (including conferences). And I would say that the first upcoming (and rated as most important) event should have a nice image on the front page to click directly to that event. Regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 7:09 PM, Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com wrote: Some of us just received a nice little summary from Melissa on the ASF's activities at OSCON -- kudos to everyone on all this! However, on looking at the ASF main home page, http://www.apache.org/, events of any kind are not easily found. I'm wondering if a prominent Events tab might be in order. -- - MzK To be trusted is a greater compliment than being loved. -- George MacDonald
Measuring Contributors, Contributions and Community Actvity
Noah, First of all, and I guess that you are aware of this, the document ‘How the ASF Works’ describes the following roles regarding non-committing participants in the communities of the ASF projects: The *user*: A user is someone that uses our software. For the sake of brevity lets accept that this can also be an organisation that consumes the work of a project, and is represented by a person. The description then reads on that these ‘users’ contribute to the Apache projects by providing feedback in the form of bug reports and feature suggestions. And users participate in the Apache community by helping others on mailing lists and support forums. The *developer* (aka the *contributor*): is a user who contributes to a project in the form of code or documentation. They take extra steps to participate in a project, are active in the developer mailing list , participate in discussions, provide patches, documentation, suggestions, and criticism. Both descriptions use the word ‘contribute’, but the first group of participants is regarded as users (not contributors), and the second group does (more or less) the same as the first group (but has this aka ‘contributor’ which the first doesn’t have, but is also described as ‘user’). I would say that a user of the work of a project participates in the community, because he (or the organisation he represents) consumes the work and has questions thereabouts. Questions like: - What is this function we’re talking about? - When will the function be released? - Where can I find the documentation? - Why does this function not work? - How should this function work? And why is that? I would say, because nine out of ten times the second most important work of the project is incomplete, inconclusive, to complicated, to extensive, etc. I am talking about the documentation related to the code. Or he might even rant about how shitty the work or the project is. A contributor is a person who does more than just ask these questions. He provides feedback in the user mailing list to such questions, he hold presentations on the project and the work of the project, he registers bug reports , he improve documentation or the code base of the project, or write books about the work, blogs, tweets, etc, etc. Nevertheless, without the clear-cut distinction between the two there will always be ambiguity about what a contributor is, and might lead to the (perception of) degradation of this participant to second class. As has been written about in the past few weeks. *Measuring contributors* When talking about measuring the number of contributors in a community we should first clear the definitions. Based on what a contributor does, one could say that it could be measured by whether a participant is subscribed to the dev mailing list and/or the equivalent of a JIRA account for registering bugs and patches. As it more likely that a contributor will register to the dev mailing list to participate there as well or have a Issue Mgt account than somebody who is just using the work. But that is not totally conclusive, as some contributors can choose to operate only in the user mailing list, or hold presentations. Such activities doesn’t make them less of a contributor. So something more needs to be done there. Or am I wrong here? *Measuring community activity (project liveliness)* I agree with you that measuring the number of unanswered threads in the user mailing list says something about community activity. But, the same goes for unanswered threads in the dev mailing list. So that should be included as well when trying to have something conclusive to say about the liveliness of a project. But why exclude trends in influx of new users and new contributors, as both also say something of the liveliness of the community and hence the project? The first indicates adoption, the second commitment. The first aspect (new users) is easy to measure by counting the new user mailing list registrations in a period, or even the first posting of a new registrant, or the combination of both. This should be feasible to achieve. Or isn’t it? The second aspect (new contributors) can be measured by registrations of new accounts in the dev mailing list of a project, and/or registration of a JIRA (or equivalent) account. Or even the number of reactions made by each registrant to a thread in the user mailing list. But I suspect that it also needs to be a combination of sorts. Don’t you agree? Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com
Re: ApacheCon w/ infant - logistics
Hi Isabel, I don't think that you have to worry about the availability of Hipp baby food. They have a sales office in budapest, so for sure it will be sold somewhere. But if you want to check availability, please take a look at: http://www.hipp.com/index.php?id=1482country_name=Ungarn. If need be, you can even contact them (Ms Ilona Guba - 0036 1 4502193). Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 9:01 PM, Isabel Drost-Fromm isa...@apache.org wrote: Hi, I don't know any Hungarians that I could ask and during my last visit this topic wasn't exactly on the agenda to explore so trying here in case someone knows: I'm planning to travel to ApacheCon EU together with my husband and our little one. From a friend of mine I know that there are European countries where ready made baby mashes e.g. by Hipp or Alete aren't available - she found out only after arrival and was very happy to have booked an apartment including a kitchen. So before booking the wrong room for ApacheCon or overpacking: Am I right in assuming that purchasing Hipp/Alete and Pampers stuff won't be a problem in Budapest? Cheers, Isabel
Apachecon US 2015 Texas
Hi Rich, All, Is a timetable/ list of milestone dates available regarding the event, stating when papers need to be submitted, reviewed, etc.? Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com
OFBiz @ Apachecon EU 2014
Hi All, Did you invite all your European contacts to come to Apachecon EU 2014? Now is a great opportunity to do so, as the event will be held in approx. 2 months. Apachecon EU 2014 is a great event to learn all about the (other) great achievements of the open source projects under the umbrella of the Apache Software Foundation (the ASF), but foremost a great opportunity to exchange insights and ideas about how to use and improve OFBiz. The event will be hosted in Budapest and will be held from the 17th till the 21st of November. An overview of the OFBiz talks can be found here: https://apacheconeu2014.sched.org/overview/type/ofbiz Best regards, and looking forward to meeting you there in person. Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com
Re: [NOTICE] Welcome Ulrich Stärk as new Community Development PMC Chair
Not only congratulations to Ulrich, but also thanks to Luciano! Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 10:49 PM, Luciano Resende luckbr1...@gmail.com wrote: The Apache Community Development PMC has recommended and the Board has confirmed Ulrich Stärk as the new ComDev PMC Chair. Congratulations !!! -- Luciano Resende http://people.apache.org/~lresende http://twitter.com/lresende1975 http://lresende.blogspot.com/
Re: Apachecon US 2015 Texas
Rich, Please present a list of areas and activities that require assistence. I contribute where and whenever I can. Regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 11:38 PM, Rich Bowen rbo...@rcbowen.com wrote: On 09/18/2014 01:56 AM, Pierre Smits wrote: Hi Rich, All, Is a timetable/ list of milestone dates available regarding the event, stating when papers need to be submitted, reviewed, etc.? The relevant dates are: CFP Open: September 16, 2014 CFP Close: February 1, 2015 CFP Notifications: February 14, 2015 Schedule Announced: February 18, 2015 Event Dates: April 13-17, 2015 I will be reaching out, again, for volunteers as soon as I get ApacheCon EU put to bed. If people want to step up to do anything now, please do so. I hope to delegate more and more with each successive event, and work myself out of a job. -- Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com - @rbowen http://apachecon.com/ - @apachecon
Re: ApacheCon - How you can help
Also done in the Apache Dirctory mailing list. Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad Op 19 sep. 2014 om 15:37 heeft Rich Bowen rbo...@rcbowen.com het volgende geschreven: Here's the most important ways that you can help with ApacheCon EU right now, in order of importance. * If you are involved in an Apache project that has content at ApacheCon, send messages to your users@ and dev@ list telling them about that content, and telling people that they need to be there. Tell them specifically what talks they need to come for, and what developers they'll get to hang out with at the event. Tell them that they are doing their career a disservice if they don't come to this event. Remind them that committers have a deep discount, so if they're not committers now, here's a *great* reason for them to get on that train for next time. Remind the US audience that if they can't make it to Budapest, they should plan to come to Austin in April. * Reach out to other audiences - Twitter, Facebook, and G+, certainly, but also other non-Apache projects you're involved with that have strong overlap with our content. Again, mention specific talks and people that will be at the event. * If your company cares about or relies on any Apache technology, encourage them to sponsor the event and/or send an employee to the event. Remind them that it's about more than just the technical content - they will get to have first-hand contact with the people that develop the software, and become part of that community, with the possibility to participate in shaping the future of that product. If there's a spark of interest in sponsorship, have them get in touch with me - rbo...@apache.org - and we'll take it from there. * Follow and retweet the @apachecon account. -- rbo...@apache.org http://apache.org/
Re: Tweets for ApacheCon (was Re: ApacheCon - How you can help)
Joe, That was a great catch phrase about the beer and the OFBiz talk. Kudos! Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 12:03 AM, Joe Brockmeier j...@zonker.net wrote: On Tue, Sep 23, 2014, at 04:48 PM, Joe Brockmeier wrote: On Fri, Sep 19, 2014, at 08:37 AM, Rich Bowen wrote: Here's the most important ways that you can help with ApacheCon EU right now, in order of importance. * Reach out to other audiences - Twitter, Facebook, and G+, certainly, but also other non-Apache projects you're involved with that have strong overlap with our content. Again, mention specific talks and people that will be at the event. I'm including a list of suggested tweets for *all* talks at ApacheCon EU here. It'd be great if we could start using these and tweeting from project and personal accounts. Sorry - disregard previous list. Corrected keynote info and used the correct (I believe) Apache OpenOffice twitter handle this time. # # # Don't miss @rbowen delivering the Apache Software Foundation State of the Feather http://sched.co/1pbz2S9 at #ApacheCon in Budapest! At #ApacheCon in Budapest, @douglascarswell will keynote on iDemocracy and Political Reform http://sched.co/1m5CFZl Nov. 17-21! Apache Tez - A New Chapter In Hadoop Data Processing http://sched.co/1pbkIsQ by Hitesh Shah at #ApacheCon Budapest See @gagravarr discuss The Apache Way at #ApacheCon http://sched.co/1pboCC2 in Budapest, Nov. 17-21! Nov. 17th: Mobile Productivity and Apache http://sched.co/1p6XPnB with @uxproductivity, Louis Suárez-Potts @ageofpeers #ApacheCon Budapest OFBiz: What Do Business Users See and Want? http://sched.co/1pbwKT9 Sharan Foga Using Apache Commons SCXML 2.0: http://sched.co/1pblgz8 by @AteDouma at #ApacheCon in Budapest Apache @CouchDB State Of The Union http://sched.co/1nz2uDt by @janl in Budapest at #ApacheCon this November Learn about Jax-Rs 2.0 With Apache Cxf Continued by @sberyozkin http://sched.co/1pbn4rL at #ApacheCon Europe (Budapest!) November 17-21 This Nov., the amazing @rbowen presents Configurable Configuration w/Apache at #ApacheCon Europe in Budapest httpd http://sched.co/1pbqniI ETL Made Simple Using Spark http://sched.co/1pbkKB5 by @mayur_rustagi @ApacheCon Europe, November 17-21 in Budapest! Did somebody say #Beer?! Brewing With Apache OFBiz http://sched.co/1nhAAtR by @PierreSmits @ApacheCon Europe Budapest, 17 November See @ApacheOO's @pescetti discusses Bending The Rules: Community Over Code Over Policy http://sched.co/1pboGSl #ApacheCon in Nov. See Oak, the Architecture of Apache Jackrabbit 3.0 by Michael Dürig http://sched.co/1pFshqr at #ApacheCon Europe, 17 Nov. in Budapest! Get an Introduction to @CouchDB http://sched.co/1A4gGsd from @janl @ApacheCon Europe, Budapest - Nov. 17-21 Using Websocket With CXF And Camel http://sched.co/1pbn6Qm by Akitoshi Yoshida at #ApacheCon Europe, 17 Nov. in Budapest! Learn about Building @ApacheCordova Applications With Apache Flex http://sched.co/1pbtA1O from @ChristoferDutz @ApacheCon Nov. 17-21 External Identity And Authentication Providers For Apache Httpd http://sched.co/1pbrMWC by Jan Pazdziora @ApacheCon Europe - Nov. 17-21 Accelerating Big Data Application Development With Cascading http://sched.co/1p6Y6XF by @supreet_online #ApacheCon Nov. 17-21 #Java Sharing Apache's Goodness: How We Should Be Telling Apache's Story http://sched.co/1p7jDzE by @jzb #ApacheCon in Budapest, Nov. 17-21 Find out What's New In Apache Syncope 1.2.0 http://sched.co/1pblZAc from @coheigea @ApacheCon Europe in Budapest, Nov. 17-21 Putting The C Back In @CouchDB 2.0: Merging Bigcouch http://sched.co/1nz2GCz by @wohali @ApacheCon Europe, Budapest this Nov. 17-21 CXF Security And Reliability http://sched.co/1pbn7UC by Dennis Sosnoski @ApacheCon Europe, Budapest - this Nov. 17-21 Catch mod_rewrite And Friends: URL Mapping And Manipulation With Apache httpd http://sched.co/1nyXM8I by @rbowen at #ApacheCon on Nov. 17 See Cordova And Firefox OS - HTML5 For The Mobile Web http://sched.co/1nz0Rpb by @JasonWeathersby #ApacheCon Budapest, Nov. 17-21 Introduction To A Groovy Based DSL For Apache OFBiz http://sched.co/1pbvGP4 by @jacopo_c #ApacheCon Europe in Budapest, Nov. 17-21 Long-Lived Yarn Services: The Future Of Yarn Applications http://sched.co/1pbkFgL by @steveloughran #ApacheCon Budapest, Nov. 17-21 Patches Welcome - Contributing To Apache Projects In A Nutshell at #ApacheCon Budapest, Nov. 17-21 http://sched.co/1pboJxC by @MaineC Learn about Apache JSPWiki http://sched.co/1pbm5I2 from Siegfried Goeschl #ApacheCon Budapest, Nov. 17-21 @CouchDB Replication: A Robust Sync Architecture For The Mobile World http://sched.co/1pbuF9G @janl #ApacheCon Budapest, Nov. 17-21
ASF Status website and project health reporting
Hi, Recently we exchanged some thoughts (twitter and otherwise) regarding the status of Apache top level projects and about how the reporting by the ASF to the projects and the wider communities could be improved. Currently the status pages at http://status.apache.org regarding project health (commit activity and mailing lists) don't allow drill down into individual projects. Is it achievable to get this kind of functionality? Can we (as the ASF) also provide insights in number of people joining and leaving the mailing lists of the projects and show what the trending topics over the periods? But also reporting on average depth and width of mailing list threads? I do believe that these kind of insights will help monitoring project health and investigate where projects can improve regarding community building. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com
Re: ASF Status website and project health reporting
For sure, such an endeavour will take quit some effort and technical resources. Especially if we want to have this available over the entire lifespan of projects. Projects do generate a lot of data that can be used for statistical analysis. Assuming over 200 projects and podlings, and each list having at least 3 mailing lists, you are looking at a lot of data that needs to be gathered and enhanced with data from other sources to ensure that the information created is meaningful. I wonder what technical solutions available under the ASF umbrella would be suitable to bring this kind of information to project communities, the board and everybody else interested. And how this should be approached project wise, as I suspect that a lot of skills and expertise is involved. Regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 12:03 PM, Noah Slater nsla...@apache.org wrote: Agreed. Commits/ML traffic would be nice on a per-project basis. Beyond that: detailed analytics tools for all projects would be such a boon from a community management perspective. I've long since thought about writing some of these myself. No need to get it perfect at the outset. It's something that could be improved over time. On 3 October 2014 12:50, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Recently we exchanged some thoughts (twitter and otherwise) regarding the status of Apache top level projects and about how the reporting by the ASF to the projects and the wider communities could be improved. Currently the status pages at http://status.apache.org regarding project health (commit activity and mailing lists) don't allow drill down into individual projects. Is it achievable to get this kind of functionality? Can we (as the ASF) also provide insights in number of people joining and leaving the mailing lists of the projects and show what the trending topics over the periods? But also reporting on average depth and width of mailing list threads? I do believe that these kind of insights will help monitoring project health and investigate where projects can improve regarding community building. Best regards, Pierre Smits ORRTIZ.COM Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com -- Noah Slater https://twitter.com/nslater
Re: ApacheBookStore.com
Rich, Why not consider the eCommerce solution of the Apache OFBiz project as a replacement for the wiki page? Regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 10:39 PM, Rich Bowen rbo...@rcbowen.com wrote: On 10/06/2014 04:21 PM, Konstantin Kolinko wrote: 2014-10-06 17:13 GMT+04:00 Rich Bowen rbo...@rcbowen.com: Anybody know who manages/owns/whatever ApacheBookStore.com? On the front page: 1. ASF Committers may add new items to our inventory or edit the item descriptions. - contact e-mail address 2. Last line on the front page: Contact Administrators - http://www.apachebookstore.com/confluence/oss/administrators.action An interesting effort, but the site looks somewhat outdated and unmaintained. The latest listed books are from year 2008. Thanks. I totally missed those. Yes, it's completely unmaintained, and we have several project websites that link to it. -- Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com - @rbowen http://apachecon.com/ - @apachecon
Re: Cordava 3.6.3 Bug
Dear Sir, Madam, I believe you intended this message to be for the community of the Apache Cordova project. Please subscibe to their dev mailing list by sending an email to dev-subscr...@cordova.apache.org. See here (http://cordova.apache.org/#mailing-list). This mailing list (dev@community.apache.org) is intended to discuss the development of the communities of the projects under the umbrella of the Apache Software Foundation. It doesn't involve the development of the works of the Apache projects. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Sat, Oct 11, 2014 at 4:30 PM, SealMedia Global sealmediaglo...@gmail.com wrote: Dear Sir, I hope this mail finfs you well. Npm - NodeJs Package Manager - forces developers to use the latest Cordova file sets; even if they are in their beta version. The (cordova.js) in Cordova 3.6.3, the latest I've downloaded as of this date, is much much smaller in size (61 Kb) as compared to the (cordova.js) in Cordova 2.8.0 (219 Kb) The reduction of size means that many items have been deleted/ removed from the latest release - Specifically the Network State section... i.e. when there is no internet connection, it should Not say that the page can not be displayed - It should alert users in advance like it was before. Kindly get back to me as soon as you can. Kind regards.
Re: Fwd: The ASF and Apache OFBiz (was: Re: ASF Status website and project health reporting)
@brane Every tool has its limitations... ;-) I can do an (off-site) demo at the ApacheCon EU 2014 for those interested. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 3:44 PM, Branko Čibej br...@apache.org wrote: On 13.10.2014 15:27, Pierre Smits wrote: Based on some demo data I have mocked up how this could look like and have created a Powerpoint to show and explain this a bit. In the attached PDF you can get a feel of some screenshots. In the notes of each slide you'll find a short description. ASF mailing lists do not allow binary attachments; there's nothing attached to the mail. (Yes, this is a good thing and protects us from spam, somewhat.) -- Brane P.S.: A Powerpoint? Really? :)
Re: ApacheBookStore.com
True, whether or not to pursue the exploitation of an e-commerce activity by The ASF is something that needs to analysed thoroughly regarding the fiscal and social implications. But, before such endeavour is undertaken the ASF could use the capabilities of OFBiz to showcase the books related to the works of the Apache Projects (without opening it up to take in orders). This could assist (in a unified way) in branding the products of the Apache projects. And this can be done by (delegated to) any interested contributor within any project. And thereby achieving that the list of books is more up to date than it is today. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 6:13 PM, Ted Dunning ted.dunn...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 11:27 AM, jan i j...@apache.org wrote: On 13 October 2014 16:30, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote: Rich, How about drop shipments directly from the publishing party, if they can handle that? That way no inventory would be required. With OFBiz The ASF can take the ordersin (not only for books, but also promotion stuff like t-shirts, banners, buttons, etc), accept the payment (credit card, etc) and send the supply order to the party handling the drop shipments. Technically I am sure OFBiz can handle it, but how does this work with our non-profit status, I am not sure we can freely sell goods without paying taxes. The ASF will absolutely have to pay taxes and the rules will vary for every city in the US (not to mention every other jurisdiction in the world). Expecting that Apache has the resources to actually run a full-scale e-commerce business with reasonable tax and PCI compliance is absolutely nuts (in my oh so very humble opinion based on having built 2 substantial consumer businesses and been very involved in 2 major anti-fraud companies). Volunteer staffing for any significant e-commerce effort is simply not sufficient.
Re: ApacheBookStore.com
With everything you have, of course, to consider whether the joy is worth the price. Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 10:07 AM, Rich Bowen rbo...@rcbowen.com wrote: On 10/13/2014 10:02 PM, Pierre Smits wrote: True, whether or not to pursue the exploitation of an e-commerce activity by The ASF is something that needs to analysed thoroughly regarding the fiscal and social implications. But, before such endeavour is undertaken the ASF could use the capabilities of OFBiz to showcase the books related to the works of the Apache Projects (without opening it up to take in orders). This could assist (in a unified way) in branding the products of the Apache projects. And this can be done by (delegated to) any interested contributor within any project. And thereby achieving that the list of books is more up to date than it is today. What we have encouraged in the past is for people/companies to set up their own stores and welcomed any donations that they wished to make back to the Foundation from profits. We've never really entertained the notion of an official store. -- Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com - @rbowen http://apachecon.com/ - @apachecon
Re: The ASF and Apache OFBiz (was: Re: ASF Status website and project health reporting)
Ross, As far as I can tell, only Rich has contacted the community of the OFBiz project regarding management of fundraising activities. I assume you that is what you meant, not contracted. Regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 4:26 PM, Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) ross.gard...@microsoft.com wrote: Note, we have recently been discussing how OfBiz can help with management of the fundraising activities. Melissa (our EA) is in contract with the project. It seems to me that this would be the simplest starting point (and isn't public facing, so less of a design overhead). Other than that, as Shane says, anything that does happen needs to happen with the infra team on board. Thanks Ross Sent from my Windows Phone From: Shane Curcurumailto:a...@shanecurcuru.org Sent: 10/15/2014 4:57 AM To: dev@community.apache.orgmailto:dev@community.apache.org Cc: u...@ofbiz.apache.orgmailto:u...@ofbiz.apache.org; Jacques Le Rouxmailto:jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com Subject: Re: The ASF and Apache OFBiz (was: Re: ASF Status website and project health reporting) The best place to start this discussion in terms of needs is over on the dev@community mailing list - no need to include folks individually unless they ask. There are several different issues to work on: - Need and design: what does the ASF or some projects actually need, and how could we better present a design that would be easier to use and maintain? Note also that projects use a wide variety of site generation and maintenance tools, and to get better adoption any new tool needs to fit easily into existing Forrest, Maven, or other tools that various projects use (i.e., adoption on a per-project level, like for project.a.o/mailinglist pages, would be up to each project) - Work: Who is actually going to provide the code, take feedback from various parties, and help maintain any new solution? This is where having an iterative design is important, because many of these efforts start with great new volunteers, but never get finished or fully deployed when the rest of the world interferes with people's dayjobs. - Code: Any apache.org hosted solution needs to be maintained by the infra team. In particular, infra is moving to centralize all the per-person data into our custom LDAP scheme, which is being expanded to include PMC membership and plenty of other data. Some info is on the blog: https://blogs.apache.org/infra/tags/ldap https://id.apache.org/ There's been a lot of updates to how the core LDAP is being used and is exposed on http or https endpoints in the past year, so it would be useful to get a better overview of what the core people/projects data is available already. - Shane On 10/13/14 9:19 AM, Pierre Smits wrote: Hi Gabriella, I have been pondering a bit on how Apache OFBiz could support The ASF as the unified front end regarding: * subscribing to and unsubscribing from mailing lists of projects and offices * profiling the Projects, Corporate Officers, ASF Members, Vice Presidents, PMC Members, Committers, Contributors and Offices * the invitation processes regarding new ASF Members, PMC Members and Committers * the 'Change of Guard' process regarding Board Members, Office and Project VPs Based on some demo data I have mocked up how this could look like and have created a Powerpoint to show and explain this a bit. In the attached PDF you can get a feel of some screenshots. In the notes of each slide you'll find a short description. If you would like to investigate and/or pursue the possibilities further, feel free to contact me to exchange ideas, viewpoints, etc. If you have trouble accessing the attached file please send me a note. Best Regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com http://www.orrtiz.com/ On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 2:42 PM, Gabriela Gibson gabriela.gib...@gmail.com mailto:gabriela.gib...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 11:50 AM, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com mailto:pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Recently we exchanged some thoughts (twitter and otherwise) regarding the status of Apache top level projects and about how the reporting by the ASF to the projects and the wider communities could be improved. Currently the status pages at http://status.apache.org regarding project health (commit activity and mailing lists) don't allow drill down into individual projects. Is it achievable to get this kind of functionality? Can we (as the ASF) also provide insights
Re: The ASF and Apache OFBiz (was: Re: ASF Status website and project health reporting)
See inline. On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 7:50 PM, Melissa Warnkin missywarn...@yahoo.com.invalid wrote: Good afternoon, I have been in direct contact with Mike Bates re a CRM for fundraising activities (not the whole OFBiz community). Why not the OFBiz community? Surely you had questions to ask that could also have been answered by other members of the community. In fact, I sent a follow-up email to him yesterday and plan to give him a ring in a day or two if I do not receive a response (I don't want to put too much pressure on him! ;) ). HTH,~M Regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com/* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com
Re: Fwd: The ASF and Apache OFBiz (was: Re: ASF Status website and project health reporting)
HI Branco, All, For your convenience I have made the presentation also available to get an idea. It can be found here: http://www.slideshare.net/pierresmits/ofbiz-4-the-asf Should you have any questions and/or remarks, feel free to post them here. Regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 3:44 PM, Branko Čibej br...@apache.org wrote: On 13.10.2014 15:27, Pierre Smits wrote: Based on some demo data I have mocked up how this could look like and have created a Powerpoint to show and explain this a bit. In the attached PDF you can get a feel of some screenshots. In the notes of each slide you'll find a short description. ASF mailing lists do not allow binary attachments; there's nothing attached to the mail. (Yes, this is a good thing and protects us from spam, somewhat.) -- Brane P.S.: A Powerpoint? Really? :)
Fwd: ApacheCon US 2015 and change of CFP
Reposting in community development. I guess I took a wrong turn earlier. -- Forwarded message -- From: Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com Date: Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 2:24 PM Subject: ApacheCon US 2015 and change of CFP To: apachecon-disc...@apache.org apachecon-disc...@apache.org Jan, All, First of all, thanks to all (contributors, speakers, organisers and supporting parties) who participated in making the ApacheCon EU 2014 a success. It is one of the best ways to get the word out on what the contributors of both the Apache projects and the Apache Software Foundation are doing, achieving and how they collaborate. Thank you, Bertrand, for the brilliant slide of the Swiss Army Knife, showing what the combined result of each Apache project is. It is also a great way to attract new users and contributors. Thank you, Jan and Noah, for the equally brilliant slide regarding the soliciting for new contributors by the CouchDb project. A strong message never needs a complicated slide! I have started out to bring the ApacheCon US 2015 event to attention of the Apache OFBiz community in order promote it and investigate the interest for presenting talks. Now, Jan has told me yesterday (Nov 19,2014) that the way we are going to review and accept talks might change for upcoming ApacheCon US 2015 event. Is there perhaps a wiki page (or something of the kind) that explains how this new procedure will work? Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com
Re: ApacheCon track descriptions
Jan, I noticed the ps in your reaction to the posting of Sharan. Is there something specific you're hinting towards, that you can't find in the project's web pages? Can you elaborate on your ps. Regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Sun, Dec 14, 2014 at 4:41 PM, jan i j...@apache.org wrote: Hi Sharan Looking forward to see you in austin (there will be plenty of vegetarian food even though its a cattle city, btw I got several complaints for not offering vegetarian in budapest). i had a similar problem, and it turned out to be a spam isolation/detection problem. Nick Burch waved a magic stick and I could edit. have a nice day rgds jan i ps. how about making a paper what can ofbiz do for asf? On Sunday, December 14, 2014, Sharan Foga sharan.f...@gmail.com wrote: Hi I've written a summary for the OFBiz track but am having problems editing the wiki to copy it in. Logging in is fine but I cant change anything. Please can someone check that I've got edit access? Thanks Sharan On 12/12/2014 17:25, Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) wrote: Track organizers you have a small job to do... Sally is working up a marketing campaign to align with ApacheCon. This is a campaign for the foundation not for ApacheCon itself, however it will run during the push for attendees and is intended to both ride on the ApacheCon press and contribute to it. In order to help Sally plan this campaign can you please provide a 3-5 sentence description of your track in the wiki ( https://wiki.apache.org/ apachecon/ACNA2015ContentCommittee). Don't worry about the details. We'll help flesh out a more marketing friendly set of words. We just need some guidance on what your track will contain. As an example here's what I wrote for my cloud track: The cloud changes everything. The Apache Software Foundation changes everything. This track will focus on how The Apache Software Foundation and, more specifically, the Apache projects are often found at the core of the latest and greatest innovations in IT. Sessions in this track will show how the Apache Way enables the largest and the smallest of companies to work together to redefine IT. We'll also take a look into the future of cloud computing and how Apache projects fit into, even defines, that future. Ross -- Sent from My iPad, sorry for any misspellings.
Why the Apachecon (was Re: ApacheCon NA CFP closed)
We are discussing again, as it seems to me, what the purpose of the Apachecon is based on talks submitted. And why is that? It appears, at least to me as I have seen the discussions before, that the ASF misses a clear strategy regarding the event, why we do it and what the intended audience is. This should be fixed prior to opening the process for the next event (Apachecon EU 2015), because then it will be easier to communicate, easier to invite speakers (and yes, we should do that), and get everybody on board regarding helping out. Is the event to be considered as the bi-annual party for ourselves, where we can all (all the presenters) claim how good we (as the individual) are with the products of the various projects? Is it an promotion and networking event? Or is it something that sits somewhere in the middle? And how does it fit with the strategy and other activities of the ASF Offices and Projects? As soon as it is known what it is, we can investigate and define the target audiences and set up a plan to communicate with (our public information can be found in 20.700 pages found https://www.google.nl/search?sitesearch=apache.orgq=apachecon and the page listed first is related to the conference of 1998) , setup a plan to get the attracting talks in. And I presume, that will help increase the success of the event, the projects and the ASF. Now, I also surmise that we don't know the size of the potential audience. We talk about 500+ members, 5000+ committers. But we are forgetting the number of the other contributors (subscribers to dev@) participating in our projects and the followers of our products (subscribers to user@). These are also numbers we can use when promoting the event. Extrapolating the ratio of members vs committers we could say 50.000+ contributors and 500.000 followers. Communicating those numbers add to the importance of the event for sponsors, presenters and attendees. Let's face it: the event costs... It cost effort to organise, it uses precious ASF resources. And net-wise it should be beneficial to both the projects and the ASF regarding supporting the projects. Meaning adding to the budgets, or at least be cost neutral, and leading to more contributors to the projects. I must admit that I don't know the exact figures per event held (e.g. EU 2014, US 2013, EU and US 2012) and what has been learned and gained from each. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 9:52 PM, Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) ross.gard...@microsoft.com wrote: There is nothing stopping LF from promoting the CFP. Ross Microsoft Open Technologies, Inc. A subsidiary of Microsoft Corporation -Original Message- From: Phil Steitz [mailto:phil.ste...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 3, 2015 12:38 PM To: dev@community.apache.org Subject: Re: ApacheCon NA CFP closed On 2/2/15 11:47 AM, jan i wrote: On 2 February 2015 at 19:30, Jim Jagielski j...@jagunet.com wrote: Agreed! Also, after all is said and done, and Rich has some time to breathe, I'd like to know just how helpful LF was this time around. From the sidelines, it seems that they really didn't do an aggressive job promoting the event and being a pro-active producer in trying to drive speakers. Being one who tries to do a little more than just help, I think we need to divide issues here. Content is our responsibility, as I believe it rightly should be, so finding and driving speakers is our part, of course with the help of LF. Promoting an event before the content is known is pretty hard and not very rewarding. The real (external) promotion start 14th February, when the schedule is in place (work which just started today). Right. One thing that might help would be to push back the CFP close date, so there is more time between content selected and the event itself. Phil All that said, I believe in general we should look for ways to motivate our projects a lot more to participate (not only with talks, but also getting people to come). just my opinion rgds jan i. On Feb 2, 2015, at 11:11 AM, Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) ross.gard...@microsoft.com wrote: Great job Rich, and those who helped. Sent from my Windows Phone From: Rich Bowenmailto:rbo...@rcbowen.com Sent: 2/2/2015 12:19 AM To: devmailto:dev@community.apache.org Subject: ApacheCon NA CFP closed Thanks so much for people that got their last-minute papers into the CFP system. We currently have 235 proposals. It is still to be decided how many tracks we're going to run, but 6 tracks would be (roughly) 108 talks, just for reference. So we should be good. If you've volunteered to review, you can start any time. If you'd like to review and aren't in the system yet, email C. Craig Ross c
Re: Why the Apachecon (was Re: ApacheCon NA CFP closed)
Rich, There is no need to pick on OFBiz. I have organized the speakers for ACEU 2012, ACEU 2014 and together with Sharan interesting talks for ACNA 2015 are lined up. Each were/are full tracks. Again for ACNA2015 I experienced unwillingness upfron at some parties because of skewed cost/benefit ratios. Nevertheless, like for ACEU 2014 we have more talks for ACNA 2015 than space in a track. We even have input for a panel/QA session, that we are looking into. If you (or your assisting organisation) want sponsors for such tracks, I suggest you/the ASF run to the names you know and start asking. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 4:37 PM, Rich Bowen rbo...@rcbowen.com wrote: On 02/04/2015 03:42 AM, Pierre Smits wrote: We are discussing again, as it seems to me, what the purpose of the Apachecon is based on talks submitted. And why is that? For what it's worth, we have made a concerted effort for ACNA15 to ask project communities to step up to make ApacheCon what they think it should be. If a project wants a track (even now) and can provide the content for it, we'll schedule it. If OFBiz, for example, wants to provide us with a track that has more the focus that you think we should have at ApacheCon, make it happen, and we'll schedule it. (I pick on OFBiz, at least in part, because they made a real effort to do this exact thing in EU.) If that brings sponsors along with it, all the better. The open CFP phase is over, but if someone brings me a track (n * 6 talks, for an n day track), we'll make it happen. Within reason - in agreement with Joe's comments else-thread, I'm not keen on running corporate advertisements at ApacheCon. But if there are companies that are deeply involved in an ASF project (as is the case at OFBiz), then, yeah, I'd love to see their content showcased. So, yes, we can only schedule content that is submitted, but we've made an effort this event to go out and get those submissions from specific communities. At future events, we'd like to see more communities step up to do this hard work. -- Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com - @rbowen http://apachecon.com/ - @apachecon
Re: ApacheCon NA CFP closed
Sharan and I will go over the talks in the OFBiz track the coming few days, and will get back to everybody with the result. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 9:18 AM, Rich Bowen rbo...@rcbowen.com wrote: Thanks so much for people that got their last-minute papers into the CFP system. We currently have 235 proposals. It is still to be decided how many tracks we're going to run, but 6 tracks would be (roughly) 108 talks, just for reference. So we should be good. If you've volunteered to review, you can start any time. If you'd like to review and aren't in the system yet, email C. Craig Ross c...@linuxfoundation.org and ask to be added to the CFP review system, and cc this list, so that we have some idea of who's being added to the list. We have 2 weeks from today to get the talks (tentatively) scheduled and notify speakers on the 14th, so there's a lot of work ahead of us. Thanks in advance. -- Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com - @rbowen http://apachecon.com/ - @apachecon
Re: FOSDEM 2016
Noted! Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 4:02 PM, jan i j...@apache.org wrote: On Wednesday, February 4, 2015, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote: Had I known upfront it was held in Brussels and the last few days (yes, I had to look it up), I would have popped over as it is only an hour's drive away. Where will the next be held and when? same place and time next year. rgds jan i Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 3:37 PM, Rich Bowen rbo...@rcbowen.com javascript:; wrote: I just came back from FOSDEM. As always, it was a madhouse, but there was some time for sane conversation. For those that weren't there, you should know that OpenOffice had a presence there (as they always have), staffed by volunteers, with some swag provided by the ASF, and other swag provided by the OpenOffice community, out of their own pockets. They did an *awesome* job of representing both AOO and the ASF as a whole. However, I think we can do better in 2016. I want to see Apache have a table at FOSDEM 2016, representing more than just one project, with proper respect to the historical position of AOO at the event - ie, not just usurping their place there. Here are some thoughts from talking with folks (mostly Jan Iversen and Daniel Gruno) at FOSDEM. * We would need to either have a separate table from AOO, or double the size of the existing table, so that we don't eclipse their place there. They've put *years* into developing a presence at FOSDEM, and we want to respect that. * Table Staff: I figure it takes at least 6 people to staff a FOSDEM table if you don't want to go insane. Daniel and Jan have said that they will staff the table. So we're 1/3 of the way there. I would probably be available for some time, but, like many of the folks that might otherwise be willing to do time, I have work duties as well. Two people need to be there at all times, and people should be willing to commit to specific time windows. It would also be cool to have times scheduled for specific projects. Like, say, 11:00 to 12:00 is Cordova Hour, and will have two representatives of the project present to answer questions and give demos. * We need printed materials, as well as stickers/pins/whatever. Printed materials should cover the ASF as a whole, as well as highlighting a variety of projects. Individual projects who wish to be represented should be encouraged to provide materials that we can print, but we don't want to have too many projects with printed materials - that would be overwhelming. We need to provide a template (in AOO, of course) that a project can fill in with their project-specific content to produce a consistent one-page, or tri-fold, or whatever, that could be printed for the event. We don't want twenty different-looking documents. We are trying to present a brand. (Right, Shane?) * A tshirt would be nice - the word-cloud of project names we discussed a year or two ago would be cool. There's several thousand people in attendance, and this is an opportunity to get the Foundation's name in front of a really important, and hugely diverse, audience. So having a cool, eye-catching tshirt is a cheap, easy way to do that. So, if you are interested in being part of this effort, please speak up. This won't happen if I'm in charge of it, but I wanted to throw it out there and see if it catches anyone. I presume that Jan will take the lead on this, but I'm the one that took notes. I'm also aware that we tend to have a lot of passion about this kind of thing for a moment, and then it fades as the event recedes into the past. But something like this takes time, effort, money, and grunt work to make it happen. -- Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com javascript:; - @rbowen http://apachecon.com/ - @apachecon -- Sent from My iPad, sorry for any misspellings.
Re: FOSDEM 2016
Had I known upfront it was held in Brussels and the last few days (yes, I had to look it up), I would have popped over as it is only an hour's drive away. Where will the next be held and when? Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 3:37 PM, Rich Bowen rbo...@rcbowen.com wrote: I just came back from FOSDEM. As always, it was a madhouse, but there was some time for sane conversation. For those that weren't there, you should know that OpenOffice had a presence there (as they always have), staffed by volunteers, with some swag provided by the ASF, and other swag provided by the OpenOffice community, out of their own pockets. They did an *awesome* job of representing both AOO and the ASF as a whole. However, I think we can do better in 2016. I want to see Apache have a table at FOSDEM 2016, representing more than just one project, with proper respect to the historical position of AOO at the event - ie, not just usurping their place there. Here are some thoughts from talking with folks (mostly Jan Iversen and Daniel Gruno) at FOSDEM. * We would need to either have a separate table from AOO, or double the size of the existing table, so that we don't eclipse their place there. They've put *years* into developing a presence at FOSDEM, and we want to respect that. * Table Staff: I figure it takes at least 6 people to staff a FOSDEM table if you don't want to go insane. Daniel and Jan have said that they will staff the table. So we're 1/3 of the way there. I would probably be available for some time, but, like many of the folks that might otherwise be willing to do time, I have work duties as well. Two people need to be there at all times, and people should be willing to commit to specific time windows. It would also be cool to have times scheduled for specific projects. Like, say, 11:00 to 12:00 is Cordova Hour, and will have two representatives of the project present to answer questions and give demos. * We need printed materials, as well as stickers/pins/whatever. Printed materials should cover the ASF as a whole, as well as highlighting a variety of projects. Individual projects who wish to be represented should be encouraged to provide materials that we can print, but we don't want to have too many projects with printed materials - that would be overwhelming. We need to provide a template (in AOO, of course) that a project can fill in with their project-specific content to produce a consistent one-page, or tri-fold, or whatever, that could be printed for the event. We don't want twenty different-looking documents. We are trying to present a brand. (Right, Shane?) * A tshirt would be nice - the word-cloud of project names we discussed a year or two ago would be cool. There's several thousand people in attendance, and this is an opportunity to get the Foundation's name in front of a really important, and hugely diverse, audience. So having a cool, eye-catching tshirt is a cheap, easy way to do that. So, if you are interested in being part of this effort, please speak up. This won't happen if I'm in charge of it, but I wanted to throw it out there and see if it catches anyone. I presume that Jan will take the lead on this, but I'm the one that took notes. I'm also aware that we tend to have a lot of passion about this kind of thing for a moment, and then it fades as the event recedes into the past. But something like this takes time, effort, money, and grunt work to make it happen. -- Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com - @rbowen http://apachecon.com/ - @apachecon
Re: FOSDEM 2016
Free/sponsored always goes a long way (See the list: https://fosdem.org/2015/about/sponsors/), so it leads to value for a lot of groups and individuals. Think recruiters, entrepreneurs, students, independent contractors. But also the sponsors (advertisers as well). Something the ASF could learn from? Share your input at: http://markmail.org/message/rwk6nh2i6lavianm Best regards: Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 4:11 PM, Rich Bowen rbo...@rcbowen.com wrote: On 02/04/2015 09:49 AM, Pierre Smits wrote: Had I known upfront it was held in Brussels and the last few days (yes, I had to look it up), I would have popped over as it is only an hour's drive away. Where will the next be held and when? Always first weekend of February, always in Brussels at the ULB ( http://www.ulb.ac.be/) It is a two day (Sat, Sun) event, but there are numerous events that orbit it, both before and after, both in Brussels and in surrounding cities, so it is a VERY high-bandwidth time to be in the area. Upwards of 4000 geeks in attendance. Very community focused (as opposed to the corporate focus of may events like OSCON) and one of the oldest free software events in the world - may be the oldest. Event is free. And there are always lots of ASF people in attendance, although not usually wearing their Apache 'hats'. -- Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com - @rbowen http://apachecon.com/ - @apachecon
Re: ApacheCon NA CFP closed
That might be an idea to explore But remember, you need to investigate the potential before you can allocate square meters. And auctioning only works when demand is higher than supply. There are always capacity limits. Best regards Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 4:07 PM, Niclas Hedhman nic...@hedhman.org wrote: Regarding commercial or advertising presentations; Why should we reject these outright? Why not allocate a track for corporations to present whatever they like, in 20, 30 or 60 min blocks? And auction out those slots. Either there is a market, or there is not... And/or combine them with on-site sponsorship programs, of booths, give-aways and so on. Stallman wouldn't do this, but we are said to be business-friendly, are we not? Cheers Niclas On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 10:27 PM, jan i j...@apache.org wrote: On Wednesday, February 4, 2015, Rich Bowen rbo...@rcbowen.com wrote: On 02/03/2015 04:11 AM, jan i wrote: We should really make that clear to people, I strongly believe the general opinion is non-project talks are not welcome. I base this on the fact that a number of talks for Denver and Budapest was rejected for being too company like. When I started helping a year ago, I had ideas about having 2 tracks (or the talks scattered around) - User (including companies) experiences with ASF projects - Companies presenting solutions based on ASF projects I quickly learned that that was not the purpose of ApacheCON, I am very trilled if that is the way we want to go because that is a real way to get AC to grow again. For several years, we had a strong business track, where the implications of The Apache Way to business (legal, marketing, planning, community, whatever) were discussed. This just took someone to step up and make it happen. If someone comes to me tomorrow with a business track, complete with content, we'll schedule it. Sally used to handle this, and with her contacts was able to provide really strong content. There was indeed resistance to this, because it's not about Apache projects, but that is very open to interpretation, and, in the end, it strengthened the community as a whole. Once we get ACNA scheduled I will talk with Sally and also come with ideas for early (before/during CFP) press releases for ACEU. I am very convinced that a business track, will sell more tickets and maybe also attract some new sponsors. rgds jan i But, we can't schedule talks that aren't submitted. LF cannot market this message alone, they need clear public statements from us, that we want companies to come and present. I am convinced that if we (e.g. for ACEU) make early press releases about wanting companies to talk, tell it to LF, then we will be a lot more successful. +1 If we just relax, and hope LF can lift that alone we will fail and keep telling each other how great projects we have ( which happens to be the truth, but maybe not the whole truth). Yep. If we keep talking to just ourselves, we'll ... keep talking to just ourselves. -- Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com - @rbowen http://apachecon.com/ - @apachecon -- Sent from My iPad, sorry for any misspellings. -- Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer http://www.qi4j.org - New Energy for Java
Re: projects.apache.org overhaul proposal
You are correct. And I am aware that budgets are limitied. But I don't what the budget will be nor decide where the money of the ASF flows. I can only ask for some of it regarding a project. And even then, I won't consider doing so for something that could be perceived as a pet project of Pierre Smits. If ASF offices do want an OFBiz implementation to work with, maybe they should go ahead and involve both INFRA and the OFBiz community. I understand the concerns. I myself have them as well when dealing with volunteer organisations. But - and apparently - the ASF has this solved regarding the INFRA office. The same could be worked out for the other solutions and/or services it needs to have in place. You just need to ask the right questions to the right people. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 5:34 PM, Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) ross.gard...@microsoft.com wrote: Maintaining servers costs money. Money has to come from somewhere and has to be budgeted. We can't just drop a new demand on infra without discussing it with them and ensuring they have the capacity. In terms of maintenance of the result Im thinking who makes the changes we need as requirements change over time? Somebody needs to be responsible for that and we need to be sure it is sustainable. The easier it is to maintain the easier it is to find someone willing to do it. As for my suggestion for OfBiz to be applied to operational area of the foundation I said currently unstructured that is the information is in ad-hoc spreadsheets and mailing lists. OfBiz is, as far as I'm aware, designed for the kinds of functions I listed. Sent from my Windows Phone
Re: projects.apache.org overhaul proposal
To put that last sentence in a more positive manner: The future looks bright and is multi-coloured! But it is shrouded in layers of mists. Unfortunately, so is the future influx of funds. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 4:22 PM, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote: Maybe we should considering changing the subject as this seems bigger than just an overhaul of one of the front ends of the ASF? Yes, it all has to do with the ROI (the benefits at large vs the costs) for the ASF. And such need to be determined regarding the future, not the present day or the past. The time that the ASF was a one project endeavour has past, and the importance of the foundation in the umfeld is growing day by day. People are turning more and more to the ASF with requests to host their open source projects. This all leads to more demand on solutions and services provided by INFRA. But also on our offices. More people/projects involved means more work on the heads in Brand Management, Legal, Communications, Secretary, etc. And these offices also use solutions/services of INFRA and/or third parties. Thus, any decision of this kind is should be taken must be weighed with the future - the 5 year view - of the ASF and its offices in mind. So, what are the future demands on our offices? And how does that impact the solutions and services rendered by INFRA, and/or third parties? To what budget requirements will the availability of those (future) solutions and services lead, with the use of current setup? Can costs be saved by rethinking that setup and replacing it by something else, and do the projected savings outweigh the projected cost of change? Such questions must be considered regularly, because there is no guarantee that current influx of funds will be the same or even increase equally with the increase of needs/wants and pleasures of offices and projects and inherently the cost associated to all that. And then we can make the proper decisions. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 3:35 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz bdelacre...@apache.org wrote: On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 3:24 PM, Rich Bowen rbo...@rcbowen.com wrote: ...*historically*, when this kind of thing has happened (project implements, thing becomes critical), gradually it becomes the responsibility of Infra, not of the project, to do ongoing maintenance Yes, this is why I'm reluctant to encourage any initiative that requires our infrastructure team to support new tools. And I suspect infra shares that reluctance ;-) That being said, it's always a question of benefits vs. costs - but if a simple thing using technologies that every web developer is supposed to know works the choice is a no-brainer for me. -Bertrand
Re: projects.apache.org overhaul proposal
Maybe we should considering changing the subject as this seems bigger than just an overhaul of one of the front ends of the ASF? Yes, it all has to do with the ROI (the benefits at large vs the costs) for the ASF. And such need to be determined regarding the future, not the present day or the past. The time that the ASF was a one project endeavour has past, and the importance of the foundation in the umfeld is growing day by day. People are turning more and more to the ASF with requests to host their open source projects. This all leads to more demand on solutions and services provided by INFRA. But also on our offices. More people/projects involved means more work on the heads in Brand Management, Legal, Communications, Secretary, etc. And these offices also use solutions/services of INFRA and/or third parties. Thus, any decision of this kind is should be taken must be weighed with the future - the 5 year view - of the ASF and its offices in mind. So, what are the future demands on our offices? And how does that impact the solutions and services rendered by INFRA, and/or third parties? To what budget requirements will the availability of those (future) solutions and services lead, with the use of current setup? Can costs be saved by rethinking that setup and replacing it by something else, and do the projected savings outweigh the projected cost of change? Such questions must be considered regularly, because there is no guarantee that current influx of funds will be the same or even increase equally with the increase of needs/wants and pleasures of offices and projects and inherently the cost associated to all that. And then we can make the proper decisions. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 3:35 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz bdelacre...@apache.org wrote: On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 3:24 PM, Rich Bowen rbo...@rcbowen.com wrote: ...*historically*, when this kind of thing has happened (project implements, thing becomes critical), gradually it becomes the responsibility of Infra, not of the project, to do ongoing maintenance Yes, this is why I'm reluctant to encourage any initiative that requires our infrastructure team to support new tools. And I suspect infra shares that reluctance ;-) That being said, it's always a question of benefits vs. costs - but if a simple thing using technologies that every web developer is supposed to know works the choice is a no-brainer for me. -Bertrand
Re: projects.apache.org overhaul proposal
Like some have expressed in earlier messages in this thread this endeavour could take up some time. Especially when requirements are not clear. And let's not forget, the OFBiz community volunteers their effort to get to a better OFBiz product. They have the tools in place for that. If the ASF wants something on top of that from the OFBIz community it needs to be asked there (their mailing lists). Not here. Even if it is assistance with prototyping a Proof of Concept. Apart from that, as the building blocks of OFBiz don't use exotic constructs (it is java, xml, ftl, groovy, when talking languages) I surmise an ASF Azure box can suffice. If concessions regarding data storage are acceptable (integrated derby in stead of external RDBMS) for such a PoC.. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 10:30 PM, Alex Harui aha...@adobe.com wrote: I’m way outside my area of knowledge, but is there anything stopping the OFBiz community from getting an ASF Azure box and trying to prototype something? -Alex On 1/14/15, 10:46 AM, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote: You are correct. And I am aware that budgets are limitied. But I don't what the budget will be nor decide where the money of the ASF flows. I can only ask for some of it regarding a project. And even then, I won't consider doing so for something that could be perceived as a pet project of Pierre Smits. If ASF offices do want an OFBiz implementation to work with, maybe they should go ahead and involve both INFRA and the OFBiz community. I understand the concerns. I myself have them as well when dealing with volunteer organisations. But - and apparently - the ASF has this solved regarding the INFRA office. The same could be worked out for the other solutions and/or services it needs to have in place. You just need to ask the right questions to the right people. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 5:34 PM, Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) ross.gard...@microsoft.com wrote: Maintaining servers costs money. Money has to come from somewhere and has to be budgeted. We can't just drop a new demand on infra without discussing it with them and ensuring they have the capacity. In terms of maintenance of the result Im thinking who makes the changes we need as requirements change over time? Somebody needs to be responsible for that and we need to be sure it is sustainable. The easier it is to maintain the easier it is to find someone willing to do it. As for my suggestion for OfBiz to be applied to operational area of the foundation I said currently unstructured that is the information is in ad-hoc spreadsheets and mailing lists. OfBiz is, as far as I'm aware, designed for the kinds of functions I listed. Sent from my Windows Phone
Re: projects.apache.org overhaul proposal
Indeed, an integrated approach and subsequent solution could help in delivering information in a unified way and reduce resource consumption. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 3:39 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz bdelacre...@apache.org wrote: On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 3:19 PM, Daniel Gruno humbed...@apache.org wrote: ...The site itself is 100% static HTML+JavaScript, I haven't added any arcane Lua/PHP/whatever scripts to it ;) Oh no...it's not really ASF if it doesn't have arcane stuff in it that no one can maintain after a few months ;-) Big thanks for your work Daniel, this looks cool! IIUC you're getting most or all of the data from LDAP? Getting rid of our scattered inconsistent sources of information about our projects would be fantastic. -Bertrand
Re: projects.apache.org overhaul proposal
See inline, On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Daniel Gruno humbed...@apache.org wrote: First off, comdev needs to officially accept the task of maintaining the site. It is currently maintained by infra, which has no interest in running it. Which internal organisation of the ASF takes ownership of the solutions delivering the information/data is debatable, and that discussion should - IMO - reside within the board. But I agree that comdev contributors can help with sharing experiences and insight so the board can make a well founded decision regarding that topic. On the subject of the thread, comdev can help with identifying requirements (functional and technical), constraints with respect to resources, and more. Secondly, I think we need to figure out which proposal we are going to run with for now, and then we can set up a JIRA ticket or three to track progress. We shouldn't turn JIRA into a discussion/voting tool when email works out really well. No need to reinvent the wheel. This is not about reinventing the wheel. More about which wheel to use. Both have advantages and disadvantages. With regards, Daniel. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com/* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com
Re: projects.apache.org overhaul proposal
See inline. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 12:42 AM, Alex Harui aha...@adobe.com wrote: I was probing the notion that it might be to the advantage of the OFBiz community to just volunteer something instead of being asked. To the best of my knowledge, the persons in the OFBiz community are volunteering. Maybe the folks on this list know the other Apache projects better than I do, but I wouldn’t even know what to ask for. Asking the first thing that comes to your mind will get you answers. Might not be the right ones, though. ;-) The project I’m involved in, Apache Flex, might also have the technology to improve a lot of things at the ASF. Once the code I’m working on gets to a certain point, if I need more customers and want to test out the “eat your own dog food” principle, I may start offering replacements to some of the web experiences we have at the ASF. I tend to agree. But you have the operators wrong. You are talking about yourself testing the 'eat your own dogfood' principle. That is different to 'having someone else eat/test your dogfood'. That means you have to solicit the willingness of others. And when there is no willingness offered and you keep trying to push it down the throat of the other, the result you get is not something you want. In the case of the works of an ASF project for the ASF (the other), you'll need - beside the willingness of the other - assistance/support from the third party (INFRA, or someone else) regarding the provisioning of hardware, etc . Unless you have unlimited resources yourself in that area. Here in The Netherlands we have this saying 'The road to hell is paved with good intentions'. I surmise, we can all recant the stories of the good intentions abandoned and the effort these required to clean up the left overs. How that eats into the areas with constraints (money, time, etc). So it is better to investigate the potential success rate before endorsing the resources you have control over. If I can run a live PoC, it will make it much easier to sell and focus the conversation and maybe even garner more contributors. And even if the ASF rejects it, I will have learned something in the process. For sure, I will meter the effort I put into it accordingly so it isn’t a huge deal if it doesn’t get adopted. Apart from the exchange of theoretical deliberations in this thread, there are connections established between offices of the ASF and (a) third party(ies) providing OFBiz services regarding exploration whether OFBiz can be utilised with respect to some of the processes of those offices. And OFBiz volunteers have offered their assistance.
Re: projects.apache.org overhaul proposal
Though it might appear that my contributions in this thread visavis the OFBiz aspect may look like adversity towards deployment on comdev svn so the comdev community can work on it, I am +1 Regards Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 6:53 PM, Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) ross.gard...@microsoft.com wrote: Daniel, There is no assuming just do it :-) You have a number of ComDev PMC members saying +1, and you are a PMC member yourself. Let's have the code where we can start working on it and let's get it to feature parity with projects.apache.org ASAP. I agree with Rich that there is value in this already. This is not to exclude the much broader OfBiz proposal, but it looks to me like this solution is close to being ready to go as a replacement for projects.apache.org and I already see some simple improvements I can make in a coffee break at work :-) Ross -Original Message- From: Daniel Gruno [mailto:humbed...@apache.org] Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2015 9:43 AM To: dev@community.apache.org Subject: Re: projects.apache.org overhaul proposal On 2015-01-14 18:37, Jacques Le Roux wrote: Just as a note for the sake of truth, OFBiz has Content component http://projects.apache.pw/projects.html?category#content http://ofbiz.apache.org/doap_OFBiz.rdf disagrees ;-) but, assuming this gets accepted into comdev, you needn't worry about doap files any longer, as you will be able to edit it online instead. With regards, Daniel. I very like what I saw, kudos! Jacques Le 14/01/2015 12:48, Daniel Gruno a écrit : Hi folks, I was having a conversation with Rich (Bowen) some weeks ago, and the sentiment was that our projects page ( projects.apache.org http://projects.apache.org ) could use a big overhaul. It's outdated, not very user friendly, doesn't really compile the data into anything useful (mostly just displays raw data) and it's difficult to navigate (no search abilities, no actual overviews). Therefore, I propose that the community development project takes over this project from Infra, which has no interest in continuing/maintaining it, and revamps it with both a new site design and a new LDAP/JSON-based information system which would enable people to edit their project details online without having to upload/change RDF files when something happens. This would also mean that everything could be rendered in the browser instead of relying on daily cron jobs to compile the page, and also allow us to add some inspiring/interesting graphical charts and overviews/timelines. I have been working on a proposal that follows these ideas, which is available for preview at http://projects.apache.pw/ for those interested. Only the first two tabs in the menu currently work (and the extensive search feature), but that is still most of what the old site has and then some. I am pondering on moving some of the front page stuff to the 'Timelines' tab instead, feedback is appreciated on this. So, comments, feedback, questions, anything is most welcome, especially comments on whether you: 1) think comdev should be responsible for the projects directory 2) think the proposal looks good/swell/nifty/whatever. A few notes on the search feature: - You can search for virtually anything within a project, types, languages, descriptions, bug-trackers etc - Try typing your committer ID or Apache ID into the box, and it will show all projects you are a part of If there is consensus for moving this into comdev framework and collaborating on this, I will commit the proposal to a sub-folder in the comdev svn repository and ask infra for a VM where we can set this up. With regards, Daniel.
Re: GSoC 2015 - very little interest so far
Hi Ulrich, How do they record their registration? Is it simply registering a JIRA describing the intend or goal and tagging it with GSoC 2015? Best regards, Pierre Op woensdag 11 februari 2015 heeft Ulrich Stärk u...@spielviel.de het volgende geschreven: Hi Pierre, the original email went bcc p...@apache.org javascript:; so all PMCs should be aware of the programme. Great to hear that there is interest within Directory and OpenMeetings. There are however no ideas on our list from those two projects. It would be great if you could remind them to record them. Cheers, Uli On 2015-02-11 12:06, Pierre Smits wrote: Hi Ulrich, Don't know whether your call for action was also sent to PMC Members of the projects (via private@), but there is interest in Apache Directory and Apache OpenMeetings. For Apache Directory interest, have a look at: http://directory.markmail.org/message/fgvejt7gncwheyki For Apache OpenMeetings interest, have a look at: http://markmail.org/message/e23ishui3rt7hhsg Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 11:24 PM, Ulrich Stärk u...@spielviel.de javascript:; wrote: Hi Folks, Our ideas list for GSoC projects [1] so far has only 38 entries. IMO this number is extremely low given the number of projects at Apache. I conclude that interest in GSoC this year is either very low or that my initial email has not reached the right people. Please help me spread the word by reminding your projects' communities of GSoC and the great opportunity for community building it provides. Thanks, Uli [1] http://s.apache.org/gsoc2015ideas -- Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com
Re: ApacheCon Schedule
Jan, Rich, Where can I access the schedule to check? Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 3:05 PM, Rich Bowen rbo...@rcbowen.com wrote: For those not involved in the process so far, I appreciate your patience, and your suffering in the dark. Making the schedule public too early caused significant logistical problems last two times (people thinking they knew things that they didn't know, and making travel plans accordingly), and we want to avoid that nightmare this time around. For those involved in the process so far: It looks like we're done with the ApacheCon schedule. Sort of. We've got 7 tracks, three days, which I think is probably just the right volume. Please look at the DRAFT schedule, and comment in this thread. I, for one, think we have a kickin' schedule. Problems that I think still need solving: * We have an empty spot in the community track. Given that community is what we *do*, it seems that we could come up with 6 community talks to schedule, and have a few fallbacks. If folks could look through the not-yet-accepted list with me and see what you can find, that would be awesome. * We have 16 open slots. We don't need to fill all of them - we need to leave 6 or 7 slots open for vendor-sponsored talks (Don't worry, these will NOT be product pitches) which will show up over the coming weeks. (LF's problem, not ours.) But I think we can probably put together a few half-day tracks if we put our minds to it. We have an entire day/track on Wednesday, if someone still thinks that they can put together a complete track (6 talks). * We need more wait-listed talks. We currently have 6 waitlisted talks, and I'm probably going to take several of those right now to fill in some empties. * We have the problem that's not a problem, which is that we had 239 submissions, and have only accepted 115 talks - less than half. So we'll get a LOT of why wasn't my talk accepted emails, and I never have very good answers to that, because the answer really is, this time, too much content, too little space. But the questions will come, and that's a very unsatisfying answer to people that have put time and effort into crafting talk abstracts. If you would like to help with any of these things, please get in touch with me. Or, just step up and claim it and do it. Note that I will be flying for much of today, and at a conference Friday-Sunday, so if I'm not responsive, please ping Jan Iversen, who can also help you out with this - although apparently I can't make him Owner of the Google Doc, so actually sharing the doc with you will be delayed, unless you respond in the next 3 hours. -- Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com - @rbowen http://apachecon.com/ - @apachecon
Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Apache Commons grants write access to all ASF committers
Congratulations. This openness in its truest form. Regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 10:07 AM, Otávio Gonçalves de Santana otaviopolianasant...@gmail.com wrote: Great! !! On Jan 2, 2015 9:56 PM, Antoine Levy Lambert anto...@gmx.de wrote: I like that too, Antoine On Jan 2, 2015, at 2:24 PM, Luciano Resende luckbr1...@gmail.com wrote: Very good initiative !!! +1 On Thu, Dec 25, 2014 at 6:17 AM, Benedikt Ritter brit...@apache.org wrote: Dear fellow committers, The Apache Commons Team is pleased to announce that write access to the Apache Commons Subversion and Git repositories has been granted to all ASF committers. Apache Commons is an Apache project focused on all aspects of reusable Java components. As such, the components maintained by the Apache Commons project may be of interest to a variety of other Apache projects. The Apache Commons community would like to invite you to share and maintain useful code. While Apache Commons is a Commit-Then-Review community, we would consider it polite and helpful for contributors to announce their intentions and plans on the dev mailing list [1] before committing code. Have fun, Benedikt Ritter, on behalf of the Apache Commons Community [1] http://commons.apache.org/mail-lists.html -- http://people.apache.org/~britter/ http://www.systemoutprintln.de/ http://twitter.com/BenediktRitter http://github.com/britter -- Luciano Resende http://people.apache.org/~lresende http://twitter.com/lresende1975 http://lresende.blogspot.com/
Re: projects.apache.org overhaul proposal
I agree with Daniel that (several) ASF pages could do with an overhaul to make them more up-to-date regarding usebility and functionality. This is inline with what I said earlier in a thread in this mailing list (see: http://community.markmail.org/message/a73m7slgtqtso3gs?q=list:org%2Eapache%2Ecommunity%2Edev+from:%22Pierre+Smits%22+ofbiz), with regards how OFBiz could support the ASF. Think managing the projects, their contributors and the PMC, as well as iCLA and CCL registration, etc. See also the online storage of a presentation of a mockup that I communicated earlier, via this link: http://www.slideshare.net/pierresmits/ofbiz-4-the-asf Such screens as are proposed by Daniel could be integrated. With regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com/* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 12:48 PM, Daniel Gruno humbed...@apache.org wrote: Hi folks, I was having a conversation with Rich (Bowen) some weeks ago, and the sentiment was that our projects page ( projects.apache.org http://projects.apache.org ) could use a big overhaul. It's outdated, not very user friendly, doesn't really compile the data into anything useful (mostly just displays raw data) and it's difficult to navigate (no search abilities, no actual overviews). Therefore, I propose that the community development project takes over this project from Infra, which has no interest in continuing/maintaining it, and revamps it with both a new site design and a new LDAP/JSON-based information system which would enable people to edit their project details online without having to upload/change RDF files when something happens. This would also mean that everything could be rendered in the browser instead of relying on daily cron jobs to compile the page, and also allow us to add some inspiring/interesting graphical charts and overviews/timelines. I have been working on a proposal that follows these ideas, which is available for preview at http://projects.apache.pw/ for those interested. Only the first two tabs in the menu currently work (and the extensive search feature), but that is still most of what the old site has and then some. I am pondering on moving some of the front page stuff to the 'Timelines' tab instead, feedback is appreciated on this. So, comments, feedback, questions, anything is most welcome, especially comments on whether you: 1) think comdev should be responsible for the projects directory 2) think the proposal looks good/swell/nifty/whatever. A few notes on the search feature: - You can search for virtually anything within a project, types, languages, descriptions, bug-trackers etc - Try typing your committer ID or Apache ID into the box, and it will show all projects you are a part of If there is consensus for moving this into comdev framework and collaborating on this, I will commit the proposal to a sub-folder in the comdev svn repository and ask infra for a VM where we can set this up. With regards, Daniel. With regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com/* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com
Re: projects.apache.org overhaul proposal
Why don't we create an improvement issue in the JIRA of comdev to track issues regarding this proposal. That will ensure that everything regarding requirements, suggestions, approaches etc is registered in one place and (amongst others) sub-tasks can be registered to track progress. Regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 2:40 PM, Rich Bowen rbo...@rcbowen.com wrote: On 01/14/2015 06:48 AM, Daniel Gruno wrote: Hi folks, I was having a conversation with Rich (Bowen) some weeks ago, and the sentiment was that our projects page ( projects.apache.org http://projects.apache.org ) could use a big overhaul. It's outdated, not very user friendly, doesn't really compile the data into anything useful (mostly just displays raw data) and it's difficult to navigate (no search abilities, no actual overviews). Therefore, I propose that the community development project takes over this project from Infra, which has no interest in continuing/maintaining it, and revamps it with both a new site design and a new LDAP/JSON-based information system which would enable people to edit their project details online without having to upload/change RDF files when something happens. This would also mean that everything could be rendered in the browser instead of relying on daily cron jobs to compile the page, and also allow us to add some inspiring/interesting graphical charts and overviews/timelines. I have been working on a proposal that follows these ideas, which is available for preview at http://projects.apache.pw/ for those interested. Only the first two tabs in the menu currently work (and the extensive search feature), but that is still most of what the old site has and then some. I am pondering on moving some of the front page stuff to the 'Timelines' tab instead, feedback is appreciated on this. This is really cool stuff, and answers many of the questions that I go hunting for every time I do a presentation about the ASF. I'm *sure* I'll have feature requests going forward. So, comments, feedback, questions, anything is most welcome, especially comments on whether you: 1) think comdev should be responsible for the projects directory 2) think the proposal looks good/swell/nifty/whatever. So, one thing you don't appear to mention ... what language is this all written in. My biggest concern with this is that it, like the first generation projects.a.o, might end up being another single-developer, single-maintainer site, and thus end up being unmaintained in short order. We want to avoid that. A few notes on the search feature: - You can search for virtually anything within a project, types, languages, descriptions, bug-trackers etc - Try typing your committer ID or Apache ID into the box, and it will show all projects you are a part of If there is consensus for moving this into comdev framework and collaborating on this, I will commit the proposal to a sub-folder in the comdev svn repository and ask infra for a VM where we can set this up. +1 to moving this into comdev svn, but I do want to hear an answer to the above question. (Yes, I know, you've discussed this with me in IRC, but I'd like to have details on the record so that other people can step up and say, hey, I can do that!) -- Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com - @rbowen http://apachecon.com/ - @apachecon
Re: GSoC 2015 - very little interest so far
Hi Ulrich, Don't know whether your call for action was also sent to PMC Members of the projects (via private@), but there is interest in Apache Directory and Apache OpenMeetings. For Apache Directory interest, have a look at: http://directory.markmail.org/message/fgvejt7gncwheyki For Apache OpenMeetings interest, have a look at: http://markmail.org/message/e23ishui3rt7hhsg Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 11:24 PM, Ulrich Stärk u...@spielviel.de wrote: Hi Folks, Our ideas list for GSoC projects [1] so far has only 38 entries. IMO this number is extremely low given the number of projects at Apache. I conclude that interest in GSoC this year is either very low or that my initial email has not reached the right people. Please help me spread the word by reminding your projects' communities of GSoC and the great opportunity for community building it provides. Thanks, Uli [1] http://s.apache.org/gsoc2015ideas
Re: Veto! Veto?
HI Bertrand, Thanks for the clarification regarding http://community.apache.org/newcommitter.html Shouldn't http://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html then also explicitly reflect that vetoes aren't allowed when it comes to on- and ofboarding contributors as committer and PMC member? That would surely bring clarity. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Sun, Mar 22, 2015 at 2:25 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz bdelacre...@apache.org wrote: On Sun, Mar 22, 2015 at 2:17 PM, Jacques Le Roux jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com wrote: ...Thanks for the clarification Bertrand, this was also unclear to me. Should we not amend the newcommitter page?.. That would be great, I don't have time right now myself. -Bertrand
Re: commit rights to ComDev non-community.a.o site resources
Why not register the solution as a component of the COMDEV project in JIRA, and do the same as any other ASF project does when it comes to code: register and evaluate issues, have patches registered there and have invited committers work from there. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 10:24 PM, Ulrich Stärk u...@spielviel.de wrote: Heh. When I put that sentence in the board report we didn't have projects-new yet. I don't see a reason why we shouldn't open up those two (or even all of /comdev) for all committers as long as changes are first discussed on our lists. What do others think? Cheers, Uli On 2015-03-14 16:38, Hervé BOUTEMY wrote: Hi, I lately gave patches for projects-new that were not applied: it seems there is a problem to determine who should do it (to avoid projects-new to be a single-man affair). Then I made some investigations: in the last board report for ComDev [1], I think I found the cause: Since artifacts produced by ComDev are usually documentation on our website which is writable for all Apache committers, we usually do not add committers to the ComDev project. Then should projects(-new).apache.org become writeable for all Apache committers too? Same for reporter.apache.org? Regards, Hervé [1] https://whimsy.apache.org/board/minutes/Community_Development.html
Re: commit rights to ComDev non-community.a.o site resources
+ 1 Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 9:39 PM, Hervé BOUTEMY herve.bout...@free.fr wrote: +1 (non-binding) Regards, Hervé Le dimanche 15 mars 2015 22:24:34 Ulrich Stärk a écrit : Heh. When I put that sentence in the board report we didn't have projects-new yet. I don't see a reason why we shouldn't open up those two (or even all of /comdev) for all committers as long as changes are first discussed on our lists. What do others think? Cheers, Uli On 2015-03-14 16:38, Hervé BOUTEMY wrote: Hi, I lately gave patches for projects-new that were not applied: it seems there is a problem to determine who should do it (to avoid projects-new to be a single-man affair). Then I made some investigations: in the last board report for ComDev [1], I think I found the cause: Since artifacts produced by ComDev are usually documentation on our website which is writable for all Apache committers, we usually do not add committers to the ComDev project. Then should projects(-new).apache.org become writeable for all Apache committers too? Same for reporter.apache.org? Regards, Hervé [1] https://whimsy.apache.org/board/minutes/Community_Development.html
Re: work with you
Please remember that communicating a 2-way street. Obliging the other party to comply doesn't help collaboration. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 12:10 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz bdelacre...@apache.org wrote: 2015-03-19 11:44 GMT+01:00 Jan Matèrne (jhm) apa...@materne.de: ...My personal experience is, that native English speakers excuse bad English from non-native speakers, if they try their best Yes, not doing so would be rude! One has to be able to communicate their ideas clearly though, so if someone's written English is limited it would be good for them to find a bilingual friend who can help review/translate messages as needed. -Bertrand
Re: Veto! Veto?
Majority voting, regarding on and offboarding of people, is less subject of abuse - when it comes to get to a resolution - than the veto mechanism. Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 4:26 PM, jan i j...@apache.org wrote: On 21 March 2015 at 15:24, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote: Again, this is not about the veto mechanism for the technical works of the project. This is about onboarding of new people, this is about community development. Voting is not a technicality or formality when it comes to people. It is the ultimate means to get to a resolution. We can discuss all we want, but there are times when discussing doesn't lead to some kind of resolution (consensus or implicit acceptance). When the discussion heats up, it often leads to 'I am right and you are wrong' to and fro. When that happens voting will bring a resolution. But then a veto is the ultimate 'my way and I won't budge' variant in stead of seeking the compromise. In the case of people (both onboarding and offboarding) it doesn't help to move a project forward. It is a postponer, a show stopper. In a posting above it said that the PMC of a project is free to define it own ruleset regarding the way that project operates. But that freedom is bound by the principles of the Apache Software Foundation. Principles (and changes thereon) that are voted upon by the members of the ASF. This platform is the place to discuss the aspects of community development in a broader sense. Like we did when the topic of the project maturity model came up. This is another topic in that broader sense of building mature projects. you are right this is the platform to discuss these matters, but you are wrong that there is a policy or principle that the vote for new committers/need to allow a veto. What you refer to is a recommendation ! Is you follow projects you will from time to time see projects forward a suggested PMC extension to the board (Board has to acknowledge every PMC extension, with a 72 hour delay) without having had a vote, but just refer to a consensus thread. So I do not understand the problem, if your PMC wants not to include veto in PMC/Committer go ahead and do so. My personal opinion (my policy or ...) is that if a PMC have had a discussion and then someone gives a -1 in the vote, there is a community problem not a policy problem. Why the need to talk specifics? This is not about finger pointing or naming and shaming. And if it were, it shouldn't be done here but in a private message to the board. And I trust that the board has ample means to take appropriate actions. Sorry it was not to offend you, but simply to get a better understanding of what the problem really is, as said above if your PMC does not like veto then don´t use it, nobody forces you to use it. If the problem is you want to change the recommendation, then it might be a good idea to talk about a specific change to a specific page. rgds jan I. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 2:42 PM, Mike Kienenberger mkien...@gmail.com wrote: Have you read https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html? As others have said, the idea is always to build consensus rather than force a result. I guess I've been fortunate in that the projects in which I've been most active have always been more interested in consensus than individuals forcing a result. This does add what seems to be a bit of bureaucracy at first glance. For example, we vote about taking a vote for committers and PMC members (others above have called it DISCUSS). And if we aren't going to be unanimous in our decision to add in a new committer or PMC member, then we've always decided to postpone the vote until the individual overcomes whatever caused the objection. I think the reason that code commits can be vetoed is to prevent dangerous situations. Projects can't afford to delay dealing with security issues or licensing issues. I've been on the PMC for two different projects for a decade, and to my recollection we've never had a code veto. As far as I know, there's only been a threat of a veto one time in those 20 project-years of time, and it was by me. I used the threat of veto with a specific committer who had been asked before to not make behavioral changes to the code in the same commit where he reformatted every line of the file. It was making it impossible to review his code changes. Veto is there for emergencies, not for bending others to your technical vision. And yes, we've
Re: Veto! Veto?
Again, this is not about the veto mechanism for the technical works of the project. This is about onboarding of new people, this is about community development. Voting is not a technicality or formality when it comes to people. It is the ultimate means to get to a resolution. We can discuss all we want, but there are times when discussing doesn't lead to some kind of resolution (consensus or implicit acceptance). When the discussion heats up, it often leads to 'I am right and you are wrong' to and fro. When that happens voting will bring a resolution. But then a veto is the ultimate 'my way and I won't budge' variant in stead of seeking the compromise. In the case of people (both onboarding and offboarding) it doesn't help to move a project forward. It is a postponer, a show stopper. In a posting above it said that the PMC of a project is free to define it own ruleset regarding the way that project operates. But that freedom is bound by the principles of the Apache Software Foundation. Principles (and changes thereon) that are voted upon by the members of the ASF. This platform is the place to discuss the aspects of community development in a broader sense. Like we did when the topic of the project maturity model came up. This is another topic in that broader sense of building mature projects. Why the need to talk specifics? This is not about finger pointing or naming and shaming. And if it were, it shouldn't be done here but in a private message to the board. And I trust that the board has ample means to take appropriate actions. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 2:42 PM, Mike Kienenberger mkien...@gmail.com wrote: Have you read https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html? As others have said, the idea is always to build consensus rather than force a result. I guess I've been fortunate in that the projects in which I've been most active have always been more interested in consensus than individuals forcing a result. This does add what seems to be a bit of bureaucracy at first glance. For example, we vote about taking a vote for committers and PMC members (others above have called it DISCUSS). And if we aren't going to be unanimous in our decision to add in a new committer or PMC member, then we've always decided to postpone the vote until the individual overcomes whatever caused the objection. I think the reason that code commits can be vetoed is to prevent dangerous situations. Projects can't afford to delay dealing with security issues or licensing issues. I've been on the PMC for two different projects for a decade, and to my recollection we've never had a code veto. As far as I know, there's only been a threat of a veto one time in those 20 project-years of time, and it was by me. I used the threat of veto with a specific committer who had been asked before to not make behavioral changes to the code in the same commit where he reformatted every line of the file. It was making it impossible to review his code changes. Veto is there for emergencies, not for bending others to your technical vision. And yes, we've had some disagreements about how things should be done technically, but the final decision usually came down to either I'm willing to do the work or putting it on hold. On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 7:00 AM, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote: If the majority perceives that a nominee is an obstructionist then it will be reflected in the voting result. But if the minority - or even only one voter - perceives that and others don't, then a veto would be a show stopper for innovation, expansion and merit recognition c.q. privilege awarding. I wonder how it can be that democracy is perceived worse than any other cracy when it comes to people in open source projects in general and ASF projects in particular. Mature projects shouldn't need to have such a mechanism when it comes to people. And it doesn't seem to fit in he Apache Way. Best regards Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 5:24 AM, Alex Harui aha...@adobe.com wrote: Consensus Approval works great until you have someone who others rightly or wrongly perceive as an obstructionist. Then it just makes the whole project the loser. At least one project uses majority approval for new members, but a serious attempt is made to make sure that the vote is unanimous anyway. Those in opposition deserve to be listened to, but if there are only one or two against and lots more in favor, then majority approval avoids long threads trying to persuade the one or two. Sure discussing more to achieve Consensus can
Re: Veto! Veto?
If the majority perceives that a nominee is an obstructionist then it will be reflected in the voting result. But if the minority - or even only one voter - perceives that and others don't, then a veto would be a show stopper for innovation, expansion and merit recognition c.q. privilege awarding. I wonder how it can be that democracy is perceived worse than any other cracy when it comes to people in open source projects in general and ASF projects in particular. Mature projects shouldn't need to have such a mechanism when it comes to people. And it doesn't seem to fit in he Apache Way. Best regards Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 5:24 AM, Alex Harui aha...@adobe.com wrote: Consensus Approval works great until you have someone who others rightly or wrongly perceive as an obstructionist. Then it just makes the whole project the loser. At least one project uses majority approval for new members, but a serious attempt is made to make sure that the vote is unanimous anyway. Those in opposition deserve to be listened to, but if there are only one or two against and lots more in favor, then majority approval avoids long threads trying to persuade the one or two. Sure discussing more to achieve Consensus can be better, but you can also lose momentum of the committer candidate and momentum of the rest of the community. The -1 vote is an alluring drug. It can be misused by individuals who, consciously or not, cannot avoid the temptation to have control rather than to collaborate. But really make sure you listen. History is full of disasters caused by not listening to that one person. -Alex
Re: Veto! Veto?
It is sometimes the case that the individual, with power in the community, can't work with another 'in his eyes difficult' person. If his contributions are beneficial to the project, if others in the project can work with that second person in the collegia/civil manner that is expected in a communityl, how can it be acceptable that that first person (the one with power who can't work with the other) can block acceptance with a veto. Voting against is not the same as vetoing! Suppose one of you (with power) finds me 'difficult' within this community (as this community is somewhat similar to any other ASF project). And suppose I get nominated as PMC member, because of my good contributions and of my ability to work with many others. How would a veto (to have me in) inspire me to do more for the greater good, but in stead lead to cycles towards being a loss for this community? Vetoing people isn't a community builder. It doesn't help when it comes to collaborating. It doesn't help when it comes to diversifying the community. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 5:45 PM, Marvin Humphrey mar...@rectangular.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 8:29 AM, Benson Margulies bimargul...@gmail.com wrote: And I emphasize 'range'. There was a talk at Apache Con some years back about the idea that civility goes in two directions: we all want to express ourselves in collegial and civil ways, and we also have to be prepared to accept communications from people with very different styles, up to and including some that we might individually find somewhat 'difficult.' It's sometimes the case that an individual has difficulty fitting into one community, yet fits just fine within another. It's interesting to consider how group dynamics differ. What positive conditions are present or negative conditions absent in the harmonious group that allow it to function smoothly? In any case, there are no ideal mechanisms for resolving intractable personnel conflicts. The best we can do is talk through differences in the hope that misunderstandings can be cleared or behavioral modifications adopted. Marvin Humphrey
Re: Why are committers accounts never terminated?
Hi Jake, I am not talking about removing merit and karma. Such is persisted in many ways, think web pages, wiki pages, etc. I am talking about revoking permissions at tools levels. That doesn't mean deleting committers identities within the ASF. Ensuring that committers get the same permissions back (or not) is up to the PMC of a project to decide. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 2:15 PM, Jake Farrell jfarr...@apache.org wrote: Hi Pierre merit and karma are earned and should not be taken away. If we where to remove karma for services and then someone came back how would we track what their previous permissions had been, this would leave no guarantee that they would have the same permissions they had when they initially stepped away for whatever reason. -Jake On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 9:09 AM, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote: I apparently only replied to Jaques. See that message below. Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com -- Forwarded message -- From: Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com Date: Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 1:15 PM Subject: Re: Why are committers accounts never terminated? To: Jacques Le Roux jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com When committers resign on their own accord (for whatever reason) their permissions for the tools of the project (JIRA, CONFLUENCE, SVN, etc) should be revoked. When they want to be active again, this can easily be facilitated. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 1:11 PM, Jacques Le Roux jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com wrote: Thanks Mark, It's quite clear Jacques Le 12/03/2015 11:59, Mark Thomas a écrit : On 12/03/2015 09:50, Jacques Le Roux wrote: Hi Infra Team and All, I have a question I wonder for some time and recently discussed in our OFBiz PMC ML. Committers come and go. When a PMC member resign, because s/he clearly wants to stop helping on the project and want to be completely disconnect from it, her/his committer account remains active. I wonder if this is not an useless security hole. Same for no longer active committers. The difference with an active committer is s/he will never know since s/he is possibly no longer monitoring things. A credential can be abused by an external person, that can be the beginning of much troubles we can not all imagine (hackers do)... With security holes you never know, until it bites you, so I really wonder why a committer account can not be terminated? A committer account on its own can do very little in the way of harm. It can (if you know which hoops to jump through) get shell access to people.a.o and it can send e-mail from an @apache.org e-mail address. people.a.o is locked down (and infra has additional monitoring in place) so the risk here is sufficiently small infra is happy with it. It terms of sending e-mail via an @apache.org e-mail address, if it is abusive (i.e. spammy) then we do rely on folks reporting it to us. The PMC is responsible for granting (and revoking) commit access. There is nothing (of a technical nature - you'll have to answer to the board and your community for the social aspects) stopping you removing inactive committers from the appropriate LDAP group(s). I'd add that the PMC is responsible for reviewing all the commits made to the PMC's repositories. You are expected to spot if a long inactive committer suddenly starts making changes or an account you don't recognise makes changes. Likewise, active committers are expected to spot changes in their name they did not make. More generally, if infra has a security concern we shut stuff down and/or lock accounts first and ask questions later. Any security concerns should be reported immediately to r...@apache.org Finally, infra periodically enforces password resets for all committers. This has the helpful side-effect of effectively locking unused committer accounts. Mark
Re: Veto! Veto?
I agree: consensus reached through discussion as far better than having to do the (majority rule) vote. As with that, you -for sure - don't always get what you want. But it is - by far-the best alternative available to keep movement in a project. And do-overs are possible. Pierre Op dinsdag 24 maart 2015 heeft Greg Stein gst...@gmail.com het volgende geschreven: On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 8:33 AM, Marvin Humphrey mar...@rectangular.com javascript:; wrote: On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 2:43 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz bdelacre...@apache.org javascript:; wrote: On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 10:28 AM, Jacques Le Roux jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com javascript:; wrote: Who will update the https://community.apache.org/newcommitter.html page?* I've done that, it now says In general, committer elections are majority approval votes, as described on the Apache Voting Process page with a link. That's not my understanding. It's not what I've heard from the Board over the years, particularly from Greg. And I believe that it's for a very good reason that personnel votes at Apache are not majority rule: majority rule forces a result rather than creates consensus. I dislike all voting, yes. Consensus through discussion is definitely a better approach. Concretely: I don't think there is any specific recommendation for how a PMC/community decides upon new committers. I've seen many mechanisms. In fact, within Apache Subversion, a committer can be added by any *singular* PMC member, no vote required (but their resulting commit rights are limited). For PMC Members, Roy has stated [on general@incubator, on 1/31/2012] that: Well, it boils down to the fact that making someone a PMC member gives them veto power over the changes you make. The only way that works socially is if everyone currently on the PMC agrees that person is a peer. ... Cheers, -g -- Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com
Re: Veto! Veto?
No worries. Just helping to get to the clearest ASF message. :-) Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 11:57 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz bdelacre...@apache.org wrote: On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 11:43 AM, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote: ... Shouldn't the sentence 'Any veto... then be removed from http://community.apache.org/newcommitter.html?... Of course, tunnel vision at work here ;-) I have removed it now, thanks for noticing! -Bertrand
Veto! Veto?
You can't coerce consensus regarding procedural issues by saying: 'do it my way or I veto!' Soon everybody will: veto. Veto. Veto! VETO. VETO!! Even vetoing a vote is not generating consensus. -- Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com
Re: Veto! Veto?
D**n. Type-ahead If it weren't all that difficult and important to do the righteous thing, we wouldn't have all the 'voting' aspects defined in our by-laws, and we could run the ASF as one of its projects. Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 4:28 PM, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote: If it weren't all that difficult and imported to do the righteous thing, we wouldn't have all the 'voting' aspects defined in our by-laws, and we could run the ASF as one of its projects. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 4:21 PM, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote: You can't coerce consensus regarding procedural issues by saying: 'do it my way or I veto!' Soon everybody will: veto. Veto. Veto! VETO. VETO!! Even vetoing a vote is not generating consensus. -- Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com
Re: Veto! Veto?
An opinion poll is not the same as voting on a procedural issue. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 9:44 AM, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote: The principle/policy/rule of the ASF regarding code changes is very explicit, well documented and unambiguous. Can a project's PMC have another methodology in place while being part of the ASF? I guess not. Consensus with respect to on and off boarding of people is nice, as it expresses unanimity. And I, as I expect it to be for all, am all for it. But to have it as an requirement would be a show stopper. Would it be ok for the ASF if there were a project under its umbrella, that would say: that majority voting principle you for procedural issues is nice, but for us - when it comes to people - we veto promotors/speakers/book writers to participate in our project with privileges (commit right, PMC membership)? Or, that it vetoes people from France (this is example, I have nothing against people from France or even with the French nationality)? Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 9:20 AM, jan i j...@apache.org wrote: On 23 March 2015 at 09:02, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote: When it comes to people, consensus (acceptance by unanimity) is the best thing to have. But if the ASF has as its principle that no vetoes are allowed, how can it be the remit of a project's PMC have it as its policy? I think it is a matter of wording, I do not think it is a ASF Principle (actually not sure how that relates to policy) that veto is not allowed, Consensus is the ASF Principle. We all want to avoid Vetos, for many good reasons, but that it not the same as not being allowed. As a Foundation we try to have very few rules and policies, and let the communities handle how they want to do it, this here is surely a case where we do not a foundation wide rule. I would have no problem, if the wording on the page was something like it is recommended not to use Veto Pierre@ maybe just for my understanding, why would ASF be better, if we make this rule foundation wide, instead of leaving it up to the single community ? rgds jan I. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Sun, Mar 22, 2015 at 3:17 PM, Jacques Le Roux jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com wrote: Le 22/03/2015 14:42, jan i a écrit : On 22 March 2015 at 14:35, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote: HI Bertrand, Thanks for the clarification regarding http://community.apache.org/newcommitter.html Shouldn't http://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html then also explicitly reflect that vetoes aren't allowed when it comes to on- and ofboarding contributors as committer and PMC member? That would surely bring clarity. I would be very unhappy with aren´t allowed, that is something the individual PMCs should decide ! Yes indeed that's PMCs 's remit; we just need to clarify the ASF default. Jacques rgds jan I. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Sun, Mar 22, 2015 at 2:25 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz bdelacre...@apache.org wrote: On Sun, Mar 22, 2015 at 2:17 PM, Jacques Le Roux jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com wrote: ...Thanks for the clarification Bertrand, this was also unclear to me. Should we not amend the newcommitter page?.. That would be great, I don't have time right now myself. -Bertrand
Re: Veto! Veto?
If it weren't all that difficult and imported to do the righteous thing, we wouldn't have all the 'voting' aspects defined in our by-laws, and we could run the ASF as one of its projects. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 4:21 PM, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote: You can't coerce consensus regarding procedural issues by saying: 'do it my way or I veto!' Soon everybody will: veto. Veto. Veto! VETO. VETO!! Even vetoing a vote is not generating consensus. -- Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com
Re: Veto! Veto?
The principle/policy/rule of the ASF regarding code changes is very explicit, well documented and unambiguous. Can a project's PMC have another methodology in place while being part of the ASF? I guess not. Consensus with respect to on and off boarding of people is nice, as it expresses unanimity. And I, as I expect it to be for all, am all for it. But to have it as an requirement would be a show stopper. Would it be ok for the ASF if there were a project under its umbrella, that would say: that majority voting principle you for procedural issues is nice, but for us - when it comes to people - we veto promotors/speakers/book writers to participate in our project with privileges (commit right, PMC membership)? Or, that it vetoes people from France (this is example, I have nothing against people from France or even with the French nationality)? Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 9:20 AM, jan i j...@apache.org wrote: On 23 March 2015 at 09:02, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote: When it comes to people, consensus (acceptance by unanimity) is the best thing to have. But if the ASF has as its principle that no vetoes are allowed, how can it be the remit of a project's PMC have it as its policy? I think it is a matter of wording, I do not think it is a ASF Principle (actually not sure how that relates to policy) that veto is not allowed, Consensus is the ASF Principle. We all want to avoid Vetos, for many good reasons, but that it not the same as not being allowed. As a Foundation we try to have very few rules and policies, and let the communities handle how they want to do it, this here is surely a case where we do not a foundation wide rule. I would have no problem, if the wording on the page was something like it is recommended not to use Veto Pierre@ maybe just for my understanding, why would ASF be better, if we make this rule foundation wide, instead of leaving it up to the single community ? rgds jan I. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Sun, Mar 22, 2015 at 3:17 PM, Jacques Le Roux jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com wrote: Le 22/03/2015 14:42, jan i a écrit : On 22 March 2015 at 14:35, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote: HI Bertrand, Thanks for the clarification regarding http://community.apache.org/newcommitter.html Shouldn't http://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html then also explicitly reflect that vetoes aren't allowed when it comes to on- and ofboarding contributors as committer and PMC member? That would surely bring clarity. I would be very unhappy with aren´t allowed, that is something the individual PMCs should decide ! Yes indeed that's PMCs 's remit; we just need to clarify the ASF default. Jacques rgds jan I. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Sun, Mar 22, 2015 at 2:25 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz bdelacre...@apache.org wrote: On Sun, Mar 22, 2015 at 2:17 PM, Jacques Le Roux jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com wrote: ...Thanks for the clarification Bertrand, this was also unclear to me. Should we not amend the newcommitter page?.. That would be great, I don't have time right now myself. -Bertrand
Re: Veto! Veto?
When it comes to people, consensus (acceptance by unanimity) is the best thing to have. But if the ASF has as its principle that no vetoes are allowed, how can it be the remit of a project's PMC have it as its policy? Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Sun, Mar 22, 2015 at 3:17 PM, Jacques Le Roux jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com wrote: Le 22/03/2015 14:42, jan i a écrit : On 22 March 2015 at 14:35, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote: HI Bertrand, Thanks for the clarification regarding http://community.apache.org/newcommitter.html Shouldn't http://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html then also explicitly reflect that vetoes aren't allowed when it comes to on- and ofboarding contributors as committer and PMC member? That would surely bring clarity. I would be very unhappy with aren´t allowed, that is something the individual PMCs should decide ! Yes indeed that's PMCs 's remit; we just need to clarify the ASF default. Jacques rgds jan I. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Sun, Mar 22, 2015 at 2:25 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz bdelacre...@apache.org wrote: On Sun, Mar 22, 2015 at 2:17 PM, Jacques Le Roux jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com wrote: ...Thanks for the clarification Bertrand, this was also unclear to me. Should we not amend the newcommitter page?.. That would be great, I don't have time right now myself. -Bertrand
Re: Veto! Veto?
The ASF defines the boundaries by with the projects are allowed to operate under its umbrella. If a project doesn't want to adhere to that, it doesn't belong under its umbrella. If one of its principles or boundaries is community over code and if the ASF wants that the diversity within the communities of it projects is reflected in the group of committers and in PMC, how can it then be that a PMC may have it different and can veto on- and off-boarding of persons of the other kind? And by the way: Yes, it is the task of the ASF (meaning every person within the greater community of the ASF, contributor, committer, PMC member, VP and etc) to guard that the principles of the ASF are upheld. As it is the task of the Board to police. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 10:05 AM, jan i j...@apache.org wrote: On Monday, March 23, 2015, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote: The principle/policy/rule of the ASF regarding code changes is very explicit, well documented and unambiguous. Can a project's PMC have another methodology in place while being part of the ASF? I guess not. not another but always a tougher (e.g. 6+1 no -1). Consensus with respect to on and off boarding of people is nice, as it expresses unanimity. And I, as I expect it to be for all, am all for it. But to have it as an requirement would be a show stopper. Would it be ok for the ASF if there were a project under its umbrella, that would say: that majority voting principle you for procedural issues is nice, but for us - when it comes to people - we veto promotors/speakers/book writers to participate in our project with privileges (commit right, PMC membership)? Or, that it vetoes people from France (this is example, I have nothing against people from France or even with the French nationality)? If the community wants it like that, then there is consensus. It is not the task of ASF to police the communities. We must be very careful only to make ASF wide rules where it is really needed e.g. our release policy is there for legal reasons. rgds jan i Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 9:20 AM, jan i j...@apache.org javascript:; wrote: On 23 March 2015 at 09:02, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com javascript:; wrote: When it comes to people, consensus (acceptance by unanimity) is the best thing to have. But if the ASF has as its principle that no vetoes are allowed, how can it be the remit of a project's PMC have it as its policy? I think it is a matter of wording, I do not think it is a ASF Principle (actually not sure how that relates to policy) that veto is not allowed, Consensus is the ASF Principle. We all want to avoid Vetos, for many good reasons, but that it not the same as not being allowed. As a Foundation we try to have very few rules and policies, and let the communities handle how they want to do it, this here is surely a case where we do not a foundation wide rule. I would have no problem, if the wording on the page was something like it is recommended not to use Veto Pierre@ maybe just for my understanding, why would ASF be better, if we make this rule foundation wide, instead of leaving it up to the single community ? rgds jan I. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Sun, Mar 22, 2015 at 3:17 PM, Jacques Le Roux jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com javascript:; wrote: Le 22/03/2015 14:42, jan i a écrit : On 22 March 2015 at 14:35, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com javascript:; wrote: HI Bertrand, Thanks for the clarification regarding http://community.apache.org/newcommitter.html Shouldn't http://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html then also explicitly reflect that vetoes aren't allowed when it comes to on- and ofboarding contributors as committer and PMC member? That would surely bring clarity. I would be very unhappy with aren´t allowed, that is something the individual PMCs should decide ! Yes indeed that's PMCs 's remit; we just need to clarify the ASF default. Jacques rgds jan I. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade
Re: Proposing tracks for ACEU15
Asking 'Which content' delivers many viewpoints. You have to ask it first to get the answers leading to focus for the best production ever. As stated in previous posting 'the ASF is responsible for content' and 'We have little say in what it will be', please elaborate on this? Meaning: the LF will take more control on who to invite for talks CFP? We can sit back and relax? I stepped up. Again. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 4:49 PM, jan i j...@apache.org wrote: Hi. Thanks a lot for taking time to reach out to communities, and mailing it here. LF is responsible for producing the event, as well as carrying the financial responsibility, while ASF is responsible for the content. This seems very clear until you start asking which content, because that highly influenced how popular the conference will be. It is highly likely that ACEU 2015 will be differently structured, in order to get a clearer marketing message. We expect that to be decided this week in close cooperation with LF. The CFP(s) will open shortly after, and I hope no later than next week. rgds jan I. On 20 April 2015 at 16:36, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, In the weeks prior to ACNA15 I have reached out to a few communities to gather momentum for ACEU15. Based on what is in the portfolio of the ASF quite a lot of interesting tracks could be built. Before the doors of the CFP opens we could investigate potential topic clusters (anything goes). Anyway, I thought starting early gives a head start. Here are a few examples: *Community building with the ASF* About: How visions at the ASF and the Apache products can help building OS Community Topics could be: - The Apache Maturity Model (or a generalisation thereof) - Betrand Delacrétaz - How a Code of Conduct Matters - Speaker TBD - A Case Study (PoC) of Community Management with OFBiz - Pierre Smits - Due Process with Apache STeVe - Speaker TBD - Version Control with Apache Subversion - Speaker TBD - Directory Management with Apache Directory - Speaker TBD - Conferencing with Apache OpenMeetings *Securing With Apache products* About: how Apache products support Identity Management, Security, Authentication Authorization Topics could be: - Directory Management with Apache Directory - RBAC enablement with Apache Fortress - The Security Framework of Apache CXF - Etc So you want big? We have BIG! About the 'big' topics of today addressed by Apache products/processes - Big Data Solutions - Scaling with Apache products - Managing a BIG community - etc Of course the above are just suggestions. Maybe we could introduce some kind of tagging to create, beyond tracks, a have a kind of pathway/streams of interests areas? I invite you to post your suggestions of tracks/streams/broad scope interests areas to this thread at apachecon-discuss@a.o. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com
Proposing tracks for ACEU15
Hi all, In the weeks prior to ACNA15 I have reached out to a few communities to gather momentum for ACEU15. Based on what is in the portfolio of the ASF quite a lot of interesting tracks could be built. Before the doors of the CFP opens we could investigate potential topic clusters (anything goes). Anyway, I thought starting early gives a head start. Here are a few examples: *Community building with the ASF* About: How visions at the ASF and the Apache products can help building OS Community Topics could be: - The Apache Maturity Model (or a generalisation thereof) - Betrand Delacrétaz - How a Code of Conduct Matters - Speaker TBD - A Case Study (PoC) of Community Management with OFBiz - Pierre Smits - Due Process with Apache STeVe - Speaker TBD - Version Control with Apache Subversion - Speaker TBD - Directory Management with Apache Directory - Speaker TBD - Conferencing with Apache OpenMeetings *Securing With Apache products* About: how Apache products support Identity Management, Security, Authentication Authorization Topics could be: - Directory Management with Apache Directory - RBAC enablement with Apache Fortress - The Security Framework of Apache CXF - Etc So you want big? We have BIG! About the 'big' topics of today addressed by Apache products/processes - Big Data Solutions - Scaling with Apache products - Managing a BIG community - etc Of course the above are just suggestions. Maybe we could introduce some kind of tagging to create, beyond tracks, a have a kind of pathway/streams of interests areas? I invite you to post your suggestions of tracks/streams/broad scope interests areas to this thread at apachecon-discuss@a.o. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com
Re: Proposing tracks for ACEU15
Quoting: '*we* do not have to ask it. The LF do' But that 'we' is confusing. Who is that? You? I? The coordinator? The Board? Anyway, then 'we' can indeed sit back and relax, and wait for clarification and/or the invitation from the LF. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 5:08 PM, Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) ross.gard...@microsoft.com wrote: *we* do not have to ask it. The LF do. The ASF are responsible for proposing (via CFP) content. We are not responsible for selecting it. Sent from my Windows Phone From: Pierre Smitsmailto:pierre.sm...@gmail.com Sent: 4/20/2015 8:05 AM To: dev@community.apache.orgmailto:dev@community.apache.org Subject: Re: Proposing tracks for ACEU15 Asking 'Which content' delivers many viewpoints. You have to ask it first to get the answers leading to focus for the best production ever. As stated in previous posting 'the ASF is responsible for content' and 'We have little say in what it will be', please elaborate on this? Meaning: the LF will take more control on who to invite for talks CFP? We can sit back and relax? I stepped up. Again. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 4:49 PM, jan i j...@apache.org wrote: Hi. Thanks a lot for taking time to reach out to communities, and mailing it here. LF is responsible for producing the event, as well as carrying the financial responsibility, while ASF is responsible for the content. This seems very clear until you start asking which content, because that highly influenced how popular the conference will be. It is highly likely that ACEU 2015 will be differently structured, in order to get a clearer marketing message. We expect that to be decided this week in close cooperation with LF. The CFP(s) will open shortly after, and I hope no later than next week. rgds jan I. On 20 April 2015 at 16:36, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, In the weeks prior to ACNA15 I have reached out to a few communities to gather momentum for ACEU15. Based on what is in the portfolio of the ASF quite a lot of interesting tracks could be built. Before the doors of the CFP opens we could investigate potential topic clusters (anything goes). Anyway, I thought starting early gives a head start. Here are a few examples: *Community building with the ASF* About: How visions at the ASF and the Apache products can help building OS Community Topics could be: - The Apache Maturity Model (or a generalisation thereof) - Betrand Delacrétaz - How a Code of Conduct Matters - Speaker TBD - A Case Study (PoC) of Community Management with OFBiz - Pierre Smits - Due Process with Apache STeVe - Speaker TBD - Version Control with Apache Subversion - Speaker TBD - Directory Management with Apache Directory - Speaker TBD - Conferencing with Apache OpenMeetings *Securing With Apache products* About: how Apache products support Identity Management, Security, Authentication Authorization Topics could be: - Directory Management with Apache Directory - RBAC enablement with Apache Fortress - The Security Framework of Apache CXF - Etc So you want big? We have BIG! About the 'big' topics of today addressed by Apache products/processes - Big Data Solutions - Scaling with Apache products - Managing a BIG community - etc Of course the above are just suggestions. Maybe we could introduce some kind of tagging to create, beyond tracks, a have a kind of pathway/streams of interests areas? I invite you to post your suggestions of tracks/streams/broad scope interests areas to this thread at apachecon-discuss@a.o. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com
Re: Proposing tracks for ACEU15
Great. Thanks for clarifying. Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 5:29 PM, Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) ross.gard...@microsoft.com wrote: We is the ASF. Sent from my Windows Phone From: Pierre Smitsmailto:pierre.sm...@gmail.com Sent: 4/20/2015 8:28 AM To: dev@community.apache.orgmailto:dev@community.apache.org Subject: Re: Proposing tracks for ACEU15 Quoting: '*we* do not have to ask it. The LF do' But that 'we' is confusing. Who is that? You? I? The coordinator? The Board? Anyway, then 'we' can indeed sit back and relax, and wait for clarification and/or the invitation from the LF. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 5:08 PM, Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) ross.gard...@microsoft.com wrote: *we* do not have to ask it. The LF do. The ASF are responsible for proposing (via CFP) content. We are not responsible for selecting it. Sent from my Windows Phone From: Pierre Smitsmailto:pierre.sm...@gmail.com Sent: 4/20/2015 8:05 AM To: dev@community.apache.orgmailto:dev@community.apache.org Subject: Re: Proposing tracks for ACEU15 Asking 'Which content' delivers many viewpoints. You have to ask it first to get the answers leading to focus for the best production ever. As stated in previous posting 'the ASF is responsible for content' and 'We have little say in what it will be', please elaborate on this? Meaning: the LF will take more control on who to invite for talks CFP? We can sit back and relax? I stepped up. Again. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 4:49 PM, jan i j...@apache.org wrote: Hi. Thanks a lot for taking time to reach out to communities, and mailing it here. LF is responsible for producing the event, as well as carrying the financial responsibility, while ASF is responsible for the content. This seems very clear until you start asking which content, because that highly influenced how popular the conference will be. It is highly likely that ACEU 2015 will be differently structured, in order to get a clearer marketing message. We expect that to be decided this week in close cooperation with LF. The CFP(s) will open shortly after, and I hope no later than next week. rgds jan I. On 20 April 2015 at 16:36, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, In the weeks prior to ACNA15 I have reached out to a few communities to gather momentum for ACEU15. Based on what is in the portfolio of the ASF quite a lot of interesting tracks could be built. Before the doors of the CFP opens we could investigate potential topic clusters (anything goes). Anyway, I thought starting early gives a head start. Here are a few examples: *Community building with the ASF* About: How visions at the ASF and the Apache products can help building OS Community Topics could be: - The Apache Maturity Model (or a generalisation thereof) - Betrand Delacrétaz - How a Code of Conduct Matters - Speaker TBD - A Case Study (PoC) of Community Management with OFBiz - Pierre Smits - Due Process with Apache STeVe - Speaker TBD - Version Control with Apache Subversion - Speaker TBD - Directory Management with Apache Directory - Speaker TBD - Conferencing with Apache OpenMeetings *Securing With Apache products* About: how Apache products support Identity Management, Security, Authentication Authorization Topics could be: - Directory Management with Apache Directory - RBAC enablement with Apache Fortress - The Security Framework of Apache CXF - Etc So you want big? We have BIG! About the 'big' topics of today addressed by Apache products/processes - Big Data Solutions - Scaling with Apache products - Managing a BIG community - etc Of course the above are just suggestions. Maybe we could introduce some kind of tagging to create, beyond tracks, a have a kind of pathway/streams of interests areas? I invite you to post your suggestions of tracks/streams/broad scope interests areas to this thread at apachecon-discuss@a.o. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based
Re: ApacheCon 2015
Thanks Adrian. How did it you experience the event and your session? Would love to hear from all presenters and attendees how it went down... Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Thu, Apr 16, 2015 at 12:41 PM, Adrian Crum adrian.c...@sandglass-software.com wrote: Here is the slideshow from my presentation at ApacheCon: http://www.sandglass-software.com/products/sandglass/ documents/2015_ApacheCon_Reduced.pdf -- Adrian Crum Sandglass Software www.sandglass-software.com
Re: Events calendar
The question is surely important, and can't be circumvented for a organisation that spends a load of money on furthering the projects and their works. Not only do we need mid and long term plans from every office, but we also need the supporting and governing processes and procedures written down and made available to the ASF community. That way we al can see what needs to be done when it needs to be done. For example, recent mails regarding the various activities executed for the ACNA 15 event pointed out that things got forgotten (like presentation templates). For such events we need scripts, and such scripts need to evaluated and improved after the event. That way we don't make the mistakes when doing a new event like we did in the past. Most importantly, Offices need to take ownership. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 11:09 PM, Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) ross.gard...@microsoft.com wrote: To get people involved we need to provide value. Today, we offer no value. So, if I may, I would like to answer a slightly different question. The one I want to answer is how can we provide value so that PMCs will proactively maintain a central events calendar? Here's my starting answer, more ideas very welcome... VP Brand has added a clause to the events policy that requires avoidance of event date clashes. Marketing is ramping up on a quarterly report that, once we are in the swing of things, will be broadly distributed (and thus provide visibility for events listed in the calendar). We have a budget for stickers and other such giveaways at community events, we won't ship those unless it's on the calendar. More? -Original Message- From: Rich Bowen [mailto:rbo...@rcbowen.com] Sent: Friday, April 10, 2015 2:01 PM To: dev Subject: Events calendar Today I found out about yet another Apache event that is almost here and I hadn't heard about before. I also noticed that http://www.apache.org/events/ is ... kinda embarrassing. This, in conjunction with Jan's question a week ago about who managed the calendar on people.a.o, which is completely a separate thing from the calendar I thought he was talking about - the Google calendar, at http://community.apache.org/calendars/conferences.html - makes me wonder why this is so hard for us. So, two questions: 1) What other calendars are out there, and what can we do to consolidate them? 2) How can we get PMCs to put their events in that consolidated calendar, once it exists, so that we don't have all of these last-minute event surprises, and, also, so that we can help in promoting our communities' events? Suggestions welcome. I, for one, am a fan of nuking every calendar we come across, and publishing the above Google Calendar all over the place, and then making a google form for people to submit events. --Rich -- Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com - @rbowen http://apachecon.com/ - @apachecon
Re: Events calendar
I am not convinced that communication of events (and a calendar is a communication mechanism) is part of the tasks of the ComDev office. Yes, the ComDev office can support projects on the howto. But such a mechanism should be owned by the MarPub office, and they should push. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 11:34 PM, jan i j...@apache.org wrote: On 10 April 2015 at 23:26, Nick Burch n...@apache.org wrote: On Fri, 10 Apr 2015, Rich Bowen wrote: 1) What other calendars are out there, and what can we do to consolidate them? I tried to consolodate everything to the official Apache Events calendar as maintained in google docs + displayed on the comdev site, and a Lanyrd conferene guide which was for wider Apache related events which anyone could add to: http://lanyrd.com/guides/apache-software-and-technologies/ The Lanyrd group did well for a bit, but hasn't seen that much traction lately, possibly because it isn't that well advertised. Concom was axed before we finished consolodating onto the google calendar + events site, which is probably why there are so many odd/other ones still around 2) How can we get PMCs to put their events in that consolidated calendar, once it exists, so that we don't have all of these last-minute event surprises, and, also, so that we can help in promoting our communities' events? How about we create a conference committee, and give them the role? ;-) Seriously though, we probably need to finalise/review the rules on what events go where (eg can an event with lots of Apache Projects at it go on the main one, or do they have to go elsewhere eg Lanyrd), then zap the old other calendars, then write up some more on how to add to the calendar(s) we have + how to add them to your site, then publicise. I am all for that ALL apache events small and big go into the calendar, that way it becomes THE place to see what is happening in the apache world. Adding events for those with karma is easy for both the google calendar and lanyrd, what we're lacking is examples of easy ways for people to display them on their PMC / other sites. Without people using them, it's hard to get people enthusied in updating them, especially without a dedicated committee pushing it... Google calendar can be very easy embedded on other pages, even with a filter showing only the project in question. We could use the category field as project name. We do have a dedicated project. This is community development, and that is comDev. rgds jan I. Nick
Incubating, Graduating Code of conduct @ The ASF (spin-off of Better specifying....)
Having such an official ASF policy without the executing office policing it, without podlings being required to accept and instill it in their bylaws before graduation and allowing existing projects not to incorporate it makes it nothing more than a hollow statement, Being part of IPMC, I thought it was part of the incubator to make sure that exactly this happened. Having done a cursory review of the incubator reports to the board for this year (January till May/June 2015), I found that only the SAMOA podling reported working on a project set of bylaws, which without knowing details could encompass and/or incorporate the code of conduct. None of the other podlings reported about that. Having looked also at the board reports for January up to May 2015 I found that podlings graduating to TLP were either tasked by the board to establish a set of bylaws or not. This tells me that acceptance/incorporation of the code of conduct of the ASF by the podlings is not a requirement. It might also mean - given the code of conduct as it is today - that IPMC members (as mentors) are either not fully aware that acceptance/incorporation is part of incubation process, or that they consider it optional. What I also observed from the board reports (minutes) from Jan till May is that while graduating podlings (as part of their establisment as a TLP) where tasked by the board to create a set of bylaws, that up to now those projects (Apache Whimsy, Apache Orc, Apache Parquet, Apache Aurora, Apache Zest) don't reference anything about a set of bylaws. And one graduating (Apache Samza) was not tasked with creating a set of bylaws at all by the board. It seems to me that this viewpoint of flexibility for projects has led to various approaches applied during the incubation phase. Making it harder to tell a unified story to the outside world... The Code of Conduct affects more the community aspect while being under the umbrella of the ASF than the code aspect. The Code of Conduct and the Apache Way (community over code) is foremost about how the contributors interact. About how to do just to all contributors, not how to favour a few The bylaws of a project should reflect how that is done, meaning defining the rules regarding procedural matters (which culminates about how the project deals with onboarding and ofboarding of contributors visavis privileges - commit privileges, PMC, PMC Chair). And shouldn't the VP of the project report back to the board, in the projects regular report, about the progress? And shouldn't the board keep track of what it has task the project to do, and/or check that a project's bylaws doesn't conflict with the Code of Conduct or the Apache Way? Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Fri, Jul 3, 2015 at 12:10 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz bdelacre...@apache.org wrote: Hi, As there was no opposition I have modified the first few paragraphs of http://www.apache.org/foundation/policies/conduct.html as below. -Bertrand On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 1:01 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz bdelacre...@apache.org wrote: *** reworked code of conduct intro section *** This code of conduct applies to all spaces managed by the Apache Software Foundation, including IRC, all public and private mailing lists, issue trackers, wikis, blogs, Twitter, and any other communication channel used by our communities. A code of conduct which is specific to in-person events (ie., conferences) is codified in the published ASF anti-harassment policy. We expect this code of conduct to be honored by everyone who participates in the Apache community formally or informally, or claims any affiliation with the Foundation, in any Foundation-related activities and especially when representing the ASF, in any role. This code is not exhaustive or complete(unchanged from here on) *** reworked code of conduct intro section ***
Re: Incubating, Graduating Code of conduct @ The ASF (spin-off of Better specifying....)
Is that just your opinion? Or something that is documented elsewhere as a part of the rules of the game for projects of the ASF? And if so, where? Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 1:36 AM, Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) ross.gard...@microsoft.com wrote: In the absence of bye-laws the defaults apply. Sent from my Windows Phone From: Pierre Smitsmailto:pierre.sm...@gmail.com Sent: 7/4/2015 3:35 PM To: dev@community.apache.orgmailto:dev@community.apache.org Subject: Re: Incubating, Graduating Code of conduct @ The ASF (spin-off of Better specifying) How can that be? The board of the ASF explicitly tasks the projects (at least those that I have seen, as mentioned in my earlier posting) to establish a set of bylaws. That sounds like a binding clause for being a project of the ASF. The conclusion that can be derived from that is that the project that don't comply can't be an Apache project until that condition is met. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 1:28 AM, Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) ross.gard...@microsoft.com wrote: No I said if projects don't write bye-laws then the defaults if the Apache Way apply. If they have local bye-laws they are expected to be in the spirit of the Apache Way but tuned to the specifics of that project. Sent from my Windows Phone From: Pierre Smitsmailto:pierre.sm...@gmail.com Sent: 7/4/2015 3:16 PM To: dev@community.apache.orgmailto:dev@community.apache.org Subject: Incubating, Graduating Code of conduct @ The ASF (spin-off of Better specifying) Off list? I am sure that quite a few more than just I couldn't distill anything insightful or meaningful from your alrgument. So are we to understand that doing the right thing with respect to the community is pushing paperwork? Doesn't that make the Community over Code aspect of the Apache Way nothing more than a hollow phrase? Best regards, Pierre Op zaterdag 4 juli 2015 heeft Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) ross.gard...@microsoft.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ross.gard...@microsoft.com'); het volgende geschreven: Sorry rushing and as has been pointed out off list auto-correct was not kind here. First sentence is unparseable so here it is again: The ASF is about doing the right thing in code, not pushing paperwork (or the electronic equivalent). Sent from my Windows Phone From: Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH)mailto:ross.gard...@microsoft.com Sent: 7/4/2015 10:08 AM To: dev@community.apache.orgmailto:dev@community.apache.org Subject: RE: Incubating, Graduating Code of conduct @ The ASF (spin-off of Better specifying) The ASF is about doing the right thing in code, not loading passport (our the electronic equivalent). There are default position for most situations in a project. In the absence of project specific exceptions the default applies. Most projects are happy with the default and prefer to write code instead. Where a project has local exceptions they must conform to the spirit of the Apache Way. If they don't then the community can turn to the PMC (and if necessary the board) to address areas of concern. It's always possible to better document things, but the documentation is there. E.g. http://community.apache.org/apache-way/apache-project-maturity-model.html and http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html Ross Sent from my Windows Phone From: Pierre Smitsmailto:pierre.sm...@gmail.com Sent: 7/4/2015 9:34 AM To: dev@community.apache.orgmailto:dev@community.apache.org Subject: Incubating, Graduating Code of conduct @ The ASF (spin-off of Better specifying) Having such an official ASF policy without the executing office policing it, without podlings being required to accept and instill it in their bylaws before graduation and allowing existing projects not to incorporate it makes it nothing more than a hollow statement, Being part of IPMC, I thought it was part of the incubator to make sure that exactly this happened. Having done a cursory review of the incubator reports to the board for this year (January till May/June 2015), I found that only the SAMOA podling reported working on a project set of bylaws, which without knowing details could encompass and/or incorporate the code of conduct. None of the other podlings reported about that. Having looked
Incubating, Graduating Code of conduct @ The ASF (spin-off of Better specifying....)
Off list? I am sure that quite a few more than just I couldn't distill anything insightful or meaningful from your alrgument. So are we to understand that doing the right thing with respect to the community is pushing paperwork? Doesn't that make the Community over Code aspect of the Apache Way nothing more than a hollow phrase? Best regards, Pierre Op zaterdag 4 juli 2015 heeft Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) ross.gard...@microsoft.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ross.gard...@microsoft.com'); het volgende geschreven: Sorry rushing and as has been pointed out off list auto-correct was not kind here. First sentence is unparseable so here it is again: The ASF is about doing the right thing in code, not pushing paperwork (or the electronic equivalent). Sent from my Windows Phone From: Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH)mailto:ross.gard...@microsoft.com Sent: 7/4/2015 10:08 AM To: dev@community.apache.orgmailto:dev@community.apache.org Subject: RE: Incubating, Graduating Code of conduct @ The ASF (spin-off of Better specifying) The ASF is about doing the right thing in code, not loading passport (our the electronic equivalent). There are default position for most situations in a project. In the absence of project specific exceptions the default applies. Most projects are happy with the default and prefer to write code instead. Where a project has local exceptions they must conform to the spirit of the Apache Way. If they don't then the community can turn to the PMC (and if necessary the board) to address areas of concern. It's always possible to better document things, but the documentation is there. E.g. http://community.apache.org/apache-way/apache-project-maturity-model.html and http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html Ross Sent from my Windows Phone From: Pierre Smitsmailto:pierre.sm...@gmail.com Sent: 7/4/2015 9:34 AM To: dev@community.apache.orgmailto:dev@community.apache.org Subject: Incubating, Graduating Code of conduct @ The ASF (spin-off of Better specifying) Having such an official ASF policy without the executing office policing it, without podlings being required to accept and instill it in their bylaws before graduation and allowing existing projects not to incorporate it makes it nothing more than a hollow statement, Being part of IPMC, I thought it was part of the incubator to make sure that exactly this happened. Having done a cursory review of the incubator reports to the board for this year (January till May/June 2015), I found that only the SAMOA podling reported working on a project set of bylaws, which without knowing details could encompass and/or incorporate the code of conduct. None of the other podlings reported about that. Having looked also at the board reports for January up to May 2015 I found that podlings graduating to TLP were either tasked by the board to establish a set of bylaws or not. This tells me that acceptance/incorporation of the code of conduct of the ASF by the podlings is not a requirement. It might also mean - given the code of conduct as it is today - that IPMC members (as mentors) are either not fully aware that acceptance/incorporation is part of incubation process, or that they consider it optional. What I also observed from the board reports (minutes) from Jan till May is that while graduating podlings (as part of their establisment as a TLP) where tasked by the board to create a set of bylaws, that up to now those projects (Apache Whimsy, Apache Orc, Apache Parquet, Apache Aurora, Apache Zest) don't reference anything about a set of bylaws. And one graduating (Apache Samza) was not tasked with creating a set of bylaws at all by the board. It seems to me that this viewpoint of flexibility for projects has led to various approaches applied during the incubation phase. Making it harder to tell a unified story to the outside world... The Code of Conduct affects more the community aspect while being under the umbrella of the ASF than the code aspect. The Code of Conduct and the Apache Way (community over code) is foremost about how the contributors interact. About how to do just to all contributors, not how to favour a few The bylaws of a project should reflect how that is done, meaning defining the rules regarding procedural matters (which culminates about how the project deals with onboarding and ofboarding of contributors visavis privileges - commit privileges, PMC, PMC Chair). And shouldn't the VP of the project report back to the board, in the projects regular report, about the progress? And shouldn't the board keep track of what it has task the project to do, and/or check that a project's bylaws doesn't conflict with the Code of Conduct or the Apache Way? Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based
Re: Incubating, Graduating Code of conduct @ The ASF (spin-off of Better specifying....)
How can that be? The board of the ASF explicitly tasks the projects (at least those that I have seen, as mentioned in my earlier posting) to establish a set of bylaws. That sounds like a binding clause for being a project of the ASF. The conclusion that can be derived from that is that the project that don't comply can't be an Apache project until that condition is met. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 1:28 AM, Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) ross.gard...@microsoft.com wrote: No I said if projects don't write bye-laws then the defaults if the Apache Way apply. If they have local bye-laws they are expected to be in the spirit of the Apache Way but tuned to the specifics of that project. Sent from my Windows Phone From: Pierre Smitsmailto:pierre.sm...@gmail.com Sent: 7/4/2015 3:16 PM To: dev@community.apache.orgmailto:dev@community.apache.org Subject: Incubating, Graduating Code of conduct @ The ASF (spin-off of Better specifying) Off list? I am sure that quite a few more than just I couldn't distill anything insightful or meaningful from your alrgument. So are we to understand that doing the right thing with respect to the community is pushing paperwork? Doesn't that make the Community over Code aspect of the Apache Way nothing more than a hollow phrase? Best regards, Pierre Op zaterdag 4 juli 2015 heeft Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) ross.gard...@microsoft.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ross.gard...@microsoft.com'); het volgende geschreven: Sorry rushing and as has been pointed out off list auto-correct was not kind here. First sentence is unparseable so here it is again: The ASF is about doing the right thing in code, not pushing paperwork (or the electronic equivalent). Sent from my Windows Phone From: Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH)mailto:ross.gard...@microsoft.com Sent: 7/4/2015 10:08 AM To: dev@community.apache.orgmailto:dev@community.apache.org Subject: RE: Incubating, Graduating Code of conduct @ The ASF (spin-off of Better specifying) The ASF is about doing the right thing in code, not loading passport (our the electronic equivalent). There are default position for most situations in a project. In the absence of project specific exceptions the default applies. Most projects are happy with the default and prefer to write code instead. Where a project has local exceptions they must conform to the spirit of the Apache Way. If they don't then the community can turn to the PMC (and if necessary the board) to address areas of concern. It's always possible to better document things, but the documentation is there. E.g. http://community.apache.org/apache-way/apache-project-maturity-model.html and http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html Ross Sent from my Windows Phone From: Pierre Smitsmailto:pierre.sm...@gmail.com Sent: 7/4/2015 9:34 AM To: dev@community.apache.orgmailto:dev@community.apache.org Subject: Incubating, Graduating Code of conduct @ The ASF (spin-off of Better specifying) Having such an official ASF policy without the executing office policing it, without podlings being required to accept and instill it in their bylaws before graduation and allowing existing projects not to incorporate it makes it nothing more than a hollow statement, Being part of IPMC, I thought it was part of the incubator to make sure that exactly this happened. Having done a cursory review of the incubator reports to the board for this year (January till May/June 2015), I found that only the SAMOA podling reported working on a project set of bylaws, which without knowing details could encompass and/or incorporate the code of conduct. None of the other podlings reported about that. Having looked also at the board reports for January up to May 2015 I found that podlings graduating to TLP were either tasked by the board to establish a set of bylaws or not. This tells me that acceptance/incorporation of the code of conduct of the ASF by the podlings is not a requirement. It might also mean - given the code of conduct as it is today - that IPMC members (as mentors) are either not fully aware that acceptance/incorporation is part of incubation process, or that they consider it optional. What I also observed from the board reports (minutes) from Jan till May is that while graduating podlings (as part of their establisment as a TLP) where tasked by the board to create a set of bylaws, that up to now those projects (Apache Whimsy, Apache Orc, Apache Parquet, Apache Aurora, Apache Zest) don't reference anything about a set of bylaws. And one
Re: Incubating, Graduating Code of conduct @ The ASF (spin-off of Better specifying....)
The latest posting by Jan proves the point of the necessity of good per-project bylaws when it comes to deviating from the generic guidelines of the ASF. Bylaws define the parameters of how processes are be executed within a project, when it comes to the procedural aspects. His example given, regarding the lifetime employment of PMC members shows that a definitive description of how onboarding and ofboarding of PMC Members takes place in the project could have saved it a lot of time and trouble. The incubation process is the right place to thing about these aspects as mentors of can could provide the insights and experience in order to avoid creating either bylaw elements that are either to vague to apply or to complex to uphold that will lead to (unnecessary and avoidable) heated discussions that hurt the project more than they do good. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 12:24 PM, jan i j...@apache.org wrote: On 6 July 2015 at 11:10, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you, Branko. I feel (somewhat) sorry for you, when I read your statement of being disgusted by the viewpoint of others on the matter. I hope you recover from it soon. Having been (and still be) in a project that have strong bylaws, limiting voting etc, I know what a PITA project bylaws can be. We fought for about 6 month to get the bylaws changed, to something there was total consensus about. The problem was that the bylaws could only be changed with 2/3 +1 of all PMC, which is quite hard to reach when 1/2 of the PMC no longer are active. Bylaws can in some special cases help a project, but really should not be necesary. If our bylaws and policies are unprecise we should do something centrally and not remedy this problem in 200 projects. rgds jan I. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 10:51 AM, Branko Čibej br...@apache.org wrote: On 04.07.2015 18:34, Pierre Smits wrote: Having done a cursory review of the incubator reports to the board for this year (January till May/June 2015), I found that only the SAMOA podling reported working on a project set of bylaws, which without knowing details could encompass and/or incorporate the code of conduct. I find myself disgusted by this widespread assumption that each project needs its own bylaws. WTF for? Are not ASF policies and practices enough for everyone? What sort of bylaws could you possibly invent that are both a useful extension of these policies and practices /and/ are not applicable to other projects? Per-project bylaws are just a tool for fragmenting the ASF community, in other words, they're a bad idea; paper-shuffling at its most useless. -- Brane
Re: Incubating, Graduating Code of conduct @ The ASF (spin-off of Better specifying....)
Like expressed earlier, that loosely way of interpreting ASF guidelines has led to the situation that the board charges newly established projects to define its bylaws. Charges that are then disregarded by the project and not followed up on by the board and or the appointed VP of the project. It is such that makes the determination of 'doing the right thing, doing it the right way' less credible in stead of more. The show flake falling down at the top of the mountain creates the avalanche in the valley. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 1:25 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz bdelacre...@apache.org wrote: On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 11:38 AM, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote: ...The latest posting by Jan proves the point of the necessity of good per-project bylaws when it comes to deviating from the generic guidelines of the ASF... But as others have said, the best is to stick to those guidelines and use the default bylaws, unless it's absolutely necessary to do things differently. -Bertrand
Re: Incubating, Graduating Code of conduct @ The ASF (spin-off of Better specifying....)
And you can read 'determination' as well as 'perception'. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 1:34 PM, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote: Like expressed earlier, that loosely way of interpreting ASF guidelines has led to the situation that the board charges newly established projects to define its bylaws. Charges that are then disregarded by the project and not followed up on by the board and or the appointed VP of the project. It is such that makes the determination of 'doing the right thing, doing it the right way' less credible in stead of more. The show flake falling down at the top of the mountain creates the avalanche in the valley. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 1:25 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz bdelacre...@apache.org wrote: On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 11:38 AM, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote: ...The latest posting by Jan proves the point of the necessity of good per-project bylaws when it comes to deviating from the generic guidelines of the ASF... But as others have said, the best is to stick to those guidelines and use the default bylaws, unless it's absolutely necessary to do things differently. -Bertrand
Re: Incubating, Graduating Code of conduct @ The ASF (spin-off of Better specifying....)
Thank you, Branko. I feel (somewhat) sorry for you, when I read your statement of being disgusted by the viewpoint of others on the matter. I hope you recover from it soon. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 10:51 AM, Branko Čibej br...@apache.org wrote: On 04.07.2015 18:34, Pierre Smits wrote: Having done a cursory review of the incubator reports to the board for this year (January till May/June 2015), I found that only the SAMOA podling reported working on a project set of bylaws, which without knowing details could encompass and/or incorporate the code of conduct. I find myself disgusted by this widespread assumption that each project needs its own bylaws. WTF for? Are not ASF policies and practices enough for everyone? What sort of bylaws could you possibly invent that are both a useful extension of these policies and practices /and/ are not applicable to other projects? Per-project bylaws are just a tool for fragmenting the ASF community, in other words, they're a bad idea; paper-shuffling at its most useless. -- Brane
Re: Incubating, Graduating Code of conduct @ The ASF (spin-off of Better specifying....)
I would say that the (hints of) examples presented, especially meaning deviation of the general 'guideline' of a simple majority vote for (procedural) aspects would be enough reason for any aspiring ASF project to do just to all to have a set of bylaws. Despite all the ASF pages to make its philosophies interpretable in only one way, I hear/see a lot of variants of what is the Apache Way or the Apache Code of Conduct from various - fellow - ASF politicians (pun intended :-)). It is bylaws that decrease the ambiguity instilled in the ASF pages, ensuring that due process is or can be established, that every contributor can expect rules to be applied equally to all. Guidelines, as some of the esteemed Members of the ASF or participants in this discussion seem to regard the policies of the ASF, don't deliver that. Remember, like Sarbanes-Oxley intended with respect to how enterprises conduct their business , per project bylaws feed into the aspect of compliance to the ASF doctrine or explain when deviating on points. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 10:18 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz bdelacre...@apache.org wrote: Hi, On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 6:30 AM, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote: if a project wants to deviate from the general rule of a simple majority voting for specific aspects - think off changing the direction or goal of the project, or e.g. every registered contributor (iCLA filed) has a vote with respect of onboarding new PMC Members - this must be incorporated in the bylaws of a project This makes me feel like there you have an actual case behind this whole discussion. If that's correct, it might be easier to discuss the actual case rather than higher level and more abstract things. -Bertrand
LABS a top level project of the ASF? (Was: Re: Incubating, ....)
We can hardly say that Apache LABS is a top level project. Though shrouded with some aspects of a TLP cloak it can't be regarded as anything else than an ASF experiment to facilitate the privileged contributors of any given true project. At best one could regard it as a service by ComDev/Infra to the projects. And I would say that given the multitude of external facilities available outside of the ASF (Sourceforge, Github, etc) that it has reached the end of its lifespan regarding its goal, being enabling committers to collaborate in experimenting with solution approaches that don't fit within the projects they are contributing to. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 3:10 PM, jan i j...@apache.org wrote: On Monday, July 6, 2015, sebb seb...@gmail.com wrote: On 6 July 2015 at 10:24, jan i j...@apache.org javascript:; wrote: On 6 July 2015 at 11:10, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com javascript:; wrote: Thank you, Branko. I feel (somewhat) sorry for you, when I read your statement of being disgusted by the viewpoint of others on the matter. I hope you recover from it soon. Having been (and still be) in a project that have strong bylaws, limiting voting etc, I know what a PITA project bylaws can be. We fought for about 6 month to get the bylaws changed, to something there was total consensus about. The problem was that the bylaws could only be changed with 2/3 +1 of all PMC, which is quite hard to reach when 1/2 of the PMC no longer are active. As I recall, the main problem was that the local project bylaws had been badly drafted, and were not clear, so needed to be changed. the bylaws was very clear and understandable but drafted in a time where LABS was a active project. Bylaws can in some special cases help a project, but really should not be necesary. If our bylaws and policies are unprecise we should do something centrally and not remedy this problem in 200 projects. Indeed. Had the local project bylaws not existed, I suspect there would have been no problem in the case to which Jan refers. Correct actually LABS is a good example of a project where the bylaws are not needed. rgds jan i rgds jan I. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 10:51 AM, Branko Čibej br...@apache.org javascript:; wrote: On 04.07.2015 18:34, Pierre Smits wrote: Having done a cursory review of the incubator reports to the board for this year (January till May/June 2015), I found that only the SAMOA podling reported working on a project set of bylaws, which without knowing details could encompass and/or incorporate the code of conduct. I find myself disgusted by this widespread assumption that each project needs its own bylaws. WTF for? Are not ASF policies and practices enough for everyone? What sort of bylaws could you possibly invent that are both a useful extension of these policies and practices /and/ are not applicable to other projects? Per-project bylaws are just a tool for fragmenting the ASF community, in other words, they're a bad idea; paper-shuffling at its most useless. -- Brane -- Sent from My iPad, sorry for any misspellings.
Re: Incubating, Graduating Code of conduct @ The ASF (spin-off of Better specifying....)
Or not! Some still believe that it is 'consensus' that is required for any procedural issues and think their -1 vote vetoes a change. That applies not only to on and off-boarding of new PMC Members and committers, but also to other policy changes. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 2:57 PM, sebb seb...@gmail.com wrote: On 6 July 2015 at 10:24, jan i j...@apache.org wrote: On 6 July 2015 at 11:10, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you, Branko. I feel (somewhat) sorry for you, when I read your statement of being disgusted by the viewpoint of others on the matter. I hope you recover from it soon. Having been (and still be) in a project that have strong bylaws, limiting voting etc, I know what a PITA project bylaws can be. We fought for about 6 month to get the bylaws changed, to something there was total consensus about. The problem was that the bylaws could only be changed with 2/3 +1 of all PMC, which is quite hard to reach when 1/2 of the PMC no longer are active. As I recall, the main problem was that the local project bylaws had been badly drafted, and were not clear, so needed to be changed. Bylaws can in some special cases help a project, but really should not be necesary. If our bylaws and policies are unprecise we should do something centrally and not remedy this problem in 200 projects. Indeed. Had the local project bylaws not existed, I suspect there would have been no problem in the case to which Jan refers. rgds jan I. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 10:51 AM, Branko Čibej br...@apache.org wrote: On 04.07.2015 18:34, Pierre Smits wrote: Having done a cursory review of the incubator reports to the board for this year (January till May/June 2015), I found that only the SAMOA podling reported working on a project set of bylaws, which without knowing details could encompass and/or incorporate the code of conduct. I find myself disgusted by this widespread assumption that each project needs its own bylaws. WTF for? Are not ASF policies and practices enough for everyone? What sort of bylaws could you possibly invent that are both a useful extension of these policies and practices /and/ are not applicable to other projects? Per-project bylaws are just a tool for fragmenting the ASF community, in other words, they're a bad idea; paper-shuffling at its most useless. -- Brane
Re: LABS a top level project of the ASF? (Was: Re: Incubating, ....)
Or stopping it. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 4:21 PM, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote: @jani, Actually, I don't feel that need as (at least) Tim and you do. But I am sure that, you and your peers can find perfect validating reasons for having this service around (or considering it a TLP) when discussing such and more amongst yourselves. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 4:10 PM, jan i j...@apache.org wrote: On 6 July 2015 at 15:00, Bertrand Delacretaz bdelacre...@apache.org wrote: On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 2:34 PM, Tim Williams william...@gmail.com wrote: ...I'd say this is the wrong place to have this particular discussion. The courteous thing to do is to have a project specific discussion on the project's specific list Agreed, that's what I meant to say, comdev has no business discussing the validity of the labs project unless that discussion is started by the labs PMC. +1 as both LABS and ComDEV PMC I totally agree. I gave the project name because it seemed correct to answer Sebb, not to start a discussion about LABS. Pierre@ feel welcome to take this discussion to our mailing list l...@labs.apache.org over there I will be more than happy to discuss whether or not LABS is a real TLP. looking forward to the discussion. rgds jan i. -Bertrand
Re: LABS a top level project of the ASF? (Was: Re: Incubating, ....)
@jani, Actually, I don't feel that need as (at least) Tim and you do. But I am sure that, you and your peers can find perfect validating reasons for having this service around (or considering it a TLP) when discussing such and more amongst yourselves. Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 4:10 PM, jan i j...@apache.org wrote: On 6 July 2015 at 15:00, Bertrand Delacretaz bdelacre...@apache.org wrote: On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 2:34 PM, Tim Williams william...@gmail.com wrote: ...I'd say this is the wrong place to have this particular discussion. The courteous thing to do is to have a project specific discussion on the project's specific list Agreed, that's what I meant to say, comdev has no business discussing the validity of the labs project unless that discussion is started by the labs PMC. +1 as both LABS and ComDEV PMC I totally agree. I gave the project name because it seemed correct to answer Sebb, not to start a discussion about LABS. Pierre@ feel welcome to take this discussion to our mailing list l...@labs.apache.org over there I will be more than happy to discuss whether or not LABS is a real TLP. looking forward to the discussion. rgds jan i. -Bertrand
