Re: [Studio] How to speed up build time?
Hi Felix, Actually, I've got an issue with this solution... :( When you erase entirely your Maven local repository, there's an issue because the UpdateSite project refers to the help projects, which have not been built yet... So the build fails. I noticed that when I was switching the version number from 1.3.0.SNAPSHOT to 1.3.0-SNAPSHOT, so the CI server does not have any snapshot of the help plugins for this version. I think we need to bring back the original build order, and we need to setup a build profile based on the 'timestamp' file in the root help pom. WDYT? Regards, Pierre-Arnaud On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 11:15 AM, Pierre-Arnaud Marcelot [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Hi Felix, On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 8:52 PM, Felix Knecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I gave it a try (http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?rev=698281view=rev). If you think it's not what you had in mind feel free to revert it. This looks very good! Thanks! Here are the results. Before: [INFO] [INFO] BUILD SUCCESSFUL [INFO] [INFO] Total time: 5 minutes 40 seconds [INFO] Finished at: Wed Sep 24 11:13:10 CEST 2008 [INFO] Final Memory: 62M/136M [INFO] After: [INFO] [INFO] BUILD SUCCESSFUL [INFO] [INFO] Total time: 1 minute 44 seconds [INFO] Finished at: Wed Sep 24 11:15:17 CEST 2008 [INFO] Final Memory: 58M/104M [INFO] Awesome... :D Regards, Pierre-Arnaud
Re: [Studio] How to speed up build time?
Pierre-Arnaud Marcelot schrieb: Hi Felix, Actually, I've got an issue with this solution... :( When you erase entirely your Maven local repository, there's an issue because the UpdateSite project refers to the help projects, which have not been built yet... So the build fails. I noticed that when I was switching the version number from 1.3.0.SNAPSHOT to 1.3.0-SNAPSHOT, so the CI server does not have any snapshot of the help plugins for this version. I think we need to bring back the original build order, and we need to setup a build profile based on the 'timestamp' file in the root help pom. You're absolutely right, I should have thought about this. Profile modules are built after the non profile modules. So we had in fact a back log of 1 build in the help plugins :-( I'll fix this. Thanks Felix
Re: [Studio] How to speed up build time?
On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 1:58 PM, Felix Knecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You're absolutely right, I should have thought about this. Profile modules are built after the non profile modules. So we had in fact a back log of 1 build in the help plugins :-( I'll fix this. I tried to fix it but it only works half way. When I run the mvn install command from the root of the trunk, it will work. But I run it from an help project (let's say apacheds-help), it will re-build everything, even if the timestamp is here. What I did is this. I've added again the help projects as modules in the root pom and removed the help profiles from it. I've also put all build instructions in the help-pom.xml in a profile activated if the timestamp file is missing. I can commit this if you want. Regards, Pierre-Arnaud
Re: [Studio] How to speed up build time?
Pierre-Arnaud Marcelot schrieb: On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 1:58 PM, Felix Knecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You're absolutely right, I should have thought about this. Profile modules are built after the non profile modules. So we had in fact a back log of 1 build in the help plugins :-( I'll fix this. I tried to fix it but it only works half way. When I run the mvn install command from the root of the trunk, it will work. But I run it from an help project (let's say apacheds-help), it will re-build everything, even if the timestamp is here. What I did is this. I've added again the help projects as modules in the root pom and removed the help profiles from it. I've also put all build instructions in the help-pom.xml in a profile activated if the timestamp file is missing. I think I've found a solution doing both, but I need to retest again. The ugly thing is that have the help-pom.xml goes into each *help/pom.xml ... I can commit this if you want. Regards, Pierre-Arnaud
Re: [Studio] How to speed up build time?
On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 3:08 PM, Felix Knecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think I've found a solution doing both, but I need to retest again. The ugly thing is that have the help-pom.xml goes into each *help/pom.xml ... Ok cool... If it saves us a lot of time, it's not so ugly... Thanks, Pierre-Arnaud
Re: [Studio] How to speed up build time?
I think I've found a solution doing both, but I need to retest again. The ugly thing is that have the help-pom.xml goes into each *help/pom.xml ... Retests failed. in fact you should be able to have something like profile idbuild-help/id activation file missing${basedir}/timestamp/missing /file /activation in the help-pom.xml, but ${basedir} doesn't seems to be properly resolved :-( Yes please, go ahead and commit what you've done :-) mine doesn't works in a better way. Felix I can commit this if you want. Regards, Pierre-Arnaud
Re: [Studio] How to speed up build time?
On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 3:11 PM, Felix Knecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Retests failed. in fact you should be able to have something like profile idbuild-help/id activation file missing${basedir}/timestamp/missing /file /activation in the help-pom.xml, but ${basedir} doesn't seems to be properly resolved :-( That's exactly what I did but I used missingtimestamp/missing instead of your missing${basedir}/timestamp/missing Yes please, go ahead and commit what you've done :-) mine doesn't works in a better way. Done. ;) Pierre-Arnaud
Re: [Studio] How to speed up build time?
Pierre-Arnaud Marcelot schrieb: On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 3:11 PM, Felix Knecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Retests failed. in fact you should be able to have something like profile idbuild-help/id activation file missing${basedir}/timestamp/missing /file /activation in the help-pom.xml, but ${basedir} doesn't seems to be properly resolved :-( That's exactly what I did but I used missingtimestamp/missing instead of your missing${basedir}/timestamp/missing It's confirmed not to work with ${basedir} missleading to the documentation http://maven.apache.org/pom.html#Activation. Response from Nicolas: Profile activation doesn't support property interopolation, even the ${basedir} one This makes this feature unusable in nested modules configuration, as the file are tested from current dir, not active project root... I already reported this issue in JIRA. Nicolas 2008/9/26 Felix Knecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi all The foofoo profile is always activated, no matter if a file 'timestamp' exists in the same directory like the pom.xml or not. It looks to me as the ${basedir} is not correctly resolved. Is this a known problem? Thanks Felix [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~/tmp $ cat pom.xml project xmlns=http://maven.apache.org/POM/4.0.0; xmlns:xsi=http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance; xsi:schemaLocation=http://maven.apache.org/POM/4.0.0 http://maven.apache.org/maven-v4_0_0.xsd; modelVersion4.0.0/modelVersion groupIdbar/groupId artifactIdfoo/artifactId version1.0.0/version namefoobar/name packagingjar/packaging profiles profile idfoofoo/id activation file missing${basedir}/timestamp/missing /file /activation /profile /profiles /project [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~/tmp $ touch timestamp [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~/tmp $ mvn help:active-profiles [INFO] Scanning for projects... [INFO] Searching repository for plugin with prefix: 'help'. [INFO] [INFO] Building foobar [INFO]task-segment: [help:active-profiles] (aggregator-style) [INFO] [INFO] [help:active-profiles] [INFO] Active Profiles for Project 'bar:foo:jar:1.0.0': The following profiles are active: - foofoo (source: pom) [INFO] [INFO] BUILD SUCCESSFUL [INFO] [INFO] Total time: 1 second [INFO] Finished at: Fri Sep 26 15:22:51 CEST 2008 [INFO] Final Memory: 19M/64M [INFO] [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~/tmp $ rm timestamp [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~/tmp $ mvn help:active-profiles [INFO] Scanning for projects... [INFO] Searching repository for plugin with prefix: 'help'. [INFO] [INFO] Building foobar [INFO]task-segment: [help:active-profiles] (aggregator-style) [INFO] [INFO] [help:active-profiles] [INFO] Active Profiles for Project 'bar:foo:jar:1.0.0': The following profiles are active: - foofoo (source: pom) [INFO] [INFO] BUILD SUCCESSFUL [INFO] [INFO] Total time: 1 second [INFO] Finished at: Fri Sep 26 15:22:58 CEST 2008 [INFO] Final Memory: 19M/64M [INFO] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Studio] How to speed up build time?
Hi Felix, On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 8:52 PM, Felix Knecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I gave it a try (http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?rev=698281view=rev). If you think it's not what you had in mind feel free to revert it. This looks very good! Thanks! Here are the results. Before: [INFO] [INFO] BUILD SUCCESSFUL [INFO] [INFO] Total time: 5 minutes 40 seconds [INFO] Finished at: Wed Sep 24 11:13:10 CEST 2008 [INFO] Final Memory: 62M/136M [INFO] After: [INFO] [INFO] BUILD SUCCESSFUL [INFO] [INFO] Total time: 1 minute 44 seconds [INFO] Finished at: Wed Sep 24 11:15:17 CEST 2008 [INFO] Final Memory: 58M/104M [INFO] Awesome... :D Regards, Pierre-Arnaud
[Studio] How to speed up build time?
Hi all, On my machine it takes around 4 minutes to build Apache Directory Studio. Sometimes, when maven is updating the latest snapshots, it can go up to 6 or more minutes. It's a long time. Let's take a look at the build log: [INFO] [INFO] Reactor Summary: [INFO] [INFO] Apache Directory Studio ... SUCCESS [6.566s] [INFO] Apache Directory Studio Repository SUCCESS [0.932s] [INFO] Apache Directory Studio DSML Parser ... SUCCESS [8.374s] [INFO] Apache Directory Studio Jars .. SUCCESS [3.299s] [INFO] Apache Directory Studio LDIF Parser ... SUCCESS [1.394s] [INFO] Apache Directory Studio Connection Core ... SUCCESS [0.713s] [INFO] Apache Directory Studio LDAP Browser Core . SUCCESS [2.695s] [INFO] Apache Directory Studio Connection UI . SUCCESS [1.130s] [INFO] Apache Directory Studio LDAP Browser Common ... SUCCESS [1.852s] [INFO] Apache Directory Studio Value Editors . SUCCESS [0.781s] [INFO] Apache Directory Studio ACI Item Editor ... SUCCESS [0.886s] [INFO] Apache Directory Studio Schema Editor . SUCCESS [4.029s] [INFO] Apache Directory Studio Schema Editor Feature . SUCCESS [0.101s] [INFO] Apache Directory Studio Schema Editor Help SUCCESS [27.815s] [INFO] Apache Directory Studio RCP ... SUCCESS [0.809s] [INFO] Apache Directory Studio RCP Feature ... SUCCESS [0.294s] [INFO] Apache Directory Studio RCP Help .. SUCCESS [16.841s] [INFO] Apache Directory Studio LDIF Editor ... SUCCESS [1.716s] [INFO] Apache Directory Studio LDIF Editor Feature ... SUCCESS [0.098s] [INFO] Apache Directory Studio LDIF Editor Help .. SUCCESS [15.026s] [INFO] Apache Directory Studio LDAP Browser UI ... SUCCESS [2.421s] [INFO] Apache Directory Studio LDAP Browser Feature .. SUCCESS [0.088s] [INFO] Apache Directory Studio LDAP Browser Help . SUCCESS [40.328s] [INFO] Apache Directory Studio Apache DS Configuration ... SUCCESS [2.360s] [INFO] Apache Directory Studio Apache DS Configuration Feature SUCCESS [0.107s] [INFO] Apache Directory Studio Apache DS Configuration Help .. SUCCESS [23.601s] [INFO] Apache Directory Studio Apache DS Launcher SUCCESS [2.611s] [INFO] Apache Directory Studio Apache DS . SUCCESS [2.496s] [INFO] Apache Directory Studio Apache DS Help SUCCESS [16.241s] [INFO] Apache Directory Studio Apache DS Feature . SUCCESS [0.152s] [INFO] Apache Directory Studio Core Integration Tests SUCCESS [6.197s] [INFO] Apache Directory Studio UI Integration Tests .. SUCCESS [4.163s] [INFO] Apache Directory Studio Update Site ... SUCCESS [17.197s] [INFO] Apache Directory Studio Build . SUCCESS [19.715s] [INFO] [INFO] [INFO] BUILD SUCCESSFUL [INFO] [INFO] Total time: 3 minutes 59 seconds [INFO] Finished at: Tue Sep 23 16:24:06 CEST 2008 [INFO] Final Memory: 68M/123M [INFO] I think we can now say, after a few months, that we're all very happy with the Maven build system. It took us long hours to get working, but now it has made the integration of studio in the CI system very easy, and has unified the whole build system within the Directory project. I really think it was a great move. It made me like Maven a lot... :D There's only one thing I regret from our old Ant build system, that saved us a lot of time. In the old system, we had a timestamp set in the help projects and we were only building them if, and only if, there has been changes to the code between the last build (according to the timestamp). Let's have a look at the help plugins build times: [INFO] Apache Directory Studio Schema Editor Help SUCCESS [27.815s] [INFO] Apache Directory Studio RCP Help .. SUCCESS [16.841s] [INFO] Apache Directory Studio LDIF Editor Help .. SUCCESS [15.026s] [INFO] Apache Directory Studio LDAP Browser Help . SUCCESS [40.328s] [INFO] Apache Directory Studio Apache DS Configuration Help .. SUCCESS [23.601s] [INFO] Apache Directory Studio Apache DS Help SUCCESS [16.241s] These 6 projects took 139,7 seconds to build. That's 58% of the time of our build... :( I really wish we could do something about this, and only build these projects when we need them. If anyone has an idea.
Re: [Studio] How to speed up build time?
I think we can now say, after a few months, that we're all very happy with the Maven build system. It took us long hours to get working, but now it has made the integration of studio in the CI system very easy, and has unified the whole build system within the Directory project. I really think it was a great move. It made me like Maven a lot... :D Heyhey :-) There's only one thing I regret from our old Ant build system, that saved us a lot of time. In the old system, we had a timestamp set in the help projects and we were only building them if, and only if, there has been changes to the code between the last build (according to the timestamp). Let's have a look at the help plugins build times: [INFO] Apache Directory Studio Schema Editor Help SUCCESS [27.815s] [INFO] Apache Directory Studio RCP Help .. SUCCESS [16.841s] [INFO] Apache Directory Studio LDIF Editor Help .. SUCCESS [15.026s] [INFO] Apache Directory Studio LDAP Browser Help . SUCCESS [40.328s] [INFO] Apache Directory Studio Apache DS Configuration Help .. SUCCESS [23.601s] [INFO] Apache Directory Studio Apache DS Help SUCCESS [16.241s] These 6 projects took 139,7 seconds to build. That's 58% of the time of our build... :( I really wish we could do something about this, and only build these projects when we need them. If anyone has an idea. Well, here's an idea let us see if we can adapt/configure it for our needs: Put the *help modules into a separate profile and have it activated by ? (see [1]). We just need to find an appropriate activator which fits our needs. We can have e.g. such a timestamp file (exist or not) to activate to 'help' profile. The question is just 'How to figure out if something has changed?. One possibility could be that we create such a file when doing a build and only delete it when running a new build including the 'clean' goal - adapt the clean goal configuration in such a way that it deletes the timestamp file. The timestamp file needs to be added to svn:ignore and it's location can/should be in the *help modules root directory. As said, just an idea. Maybe there are better solutions. [1] http://maven.apache.org/pom.html#Activation Regards Felix
Re: [Studio] How to speed up build time?
On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 7:21 PM, Felix Knecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, here's an idea let us see if we can adapt/configure it for our needs: Put the *help modules into a separate profile and have it activated by ? (see [1]). We just need to find an appropriate activator which fits our needs. We can have e.g. such a timestamp file (exist or not) to activate to 'help' profile. The question is just 'How to figure out if something has changed?. One possibility could be that we create such a file when doing a build and only delete it when running a new build including the 'clean' goal - adapt the clean goal configuration in such a way that it deletes the timestamp file. The timestamp file needs to be added to svn:ignore and it's location can/should be in the *help modules root directory. As said, just an idea. Maybe there are better solutions. I must have catch the Maven way of thinking, because I was thinking about something pretty similar... Hehe. A special profile that gets triggered when we want, or based on a condition (a file existing [or not] somewhere). We'll see that after I'm done with the Manifests. ;) Thanks, Pierre-Arnaud
Re: [Studio] How to speed up build time?
On Sep 23, 2008, at 10:40 AM, Pierre-Arnaud Marcelot wrote: On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 7:21 PM, Felix Knecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, here's an idea let us see if we can adapt/configure it for our needs: Put the *help modules into a separate profile and have it activated by ? (see [1]). We just need to find an appropriate activator which fits our needs. We can have e.g. such a timestamp file (exist or not) to activate to 'help' profile. The question is just 'How to figure out if something has changed?. One possibility could be that we create such a file when doing a build and only delete it when running a new build including the 'clean' goal - adapt the clean goal configuration in such a way that it deletes the timestamp file. The timestamp file needs to be added to svn:ignore and it's location can/should be in the *help modules root directory. As said, just an idea. Maybe there are better solutions. I must have catch the Maven way of thinking, because I was thinking about something pretty similar... Hehe. A special profile that gets triggered when we want, or based on a condition (a file existing [or not] somewhere). We'll see that after I'm done with the Manifests. ;) In general the fact that a module hasn't changed doesn't mean it will build: the stuff it depends on might have changed to break it. Thus I think CI builds should be complete builds of everything. There's been activity recently in maven on enabling dependency based partial builds. IIUC most of this will be in maven 2.1-M2 (it's apparently in trunk) and there's a plugin for earlier mavens. I haven't tried it personally yet the first experiment I made didn't work and I didn't poke very hard to find out what was wrong. http://maven.apache.org/plugins/maven-reactor-plugin/ thanks david jencks Thanks, Pierre-Arnaud
Re: [Studio] How to speed up build time?
David Jencks wrote: A special profile that gets triggered when we want, or based on a condition (a file existing [or not] somewhere). In general the fact that a module hasn't changed doesn't mean it will build: the stuff it depends on might have changed to break it. Thus I think CI builds should be complete builds of everything. We are talking about Javadoc generation, here. I don't think this make a big difference if some Javadoc is not up to date simply because you have not generated it before committing the code. Except that it cut the build time from 10 minutes to 3 minutes, which is good enough to guarantee that committers _will_ run the build before committing. Of course, the release _must_ run a full build. -- -- cordialement, regards, Emmanuel Lécharny www.iktek.com directory.apache.org
Re: [Studio] How to speed up build time?
Pierre-Arnaud Marcelot schrieb: On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 7:21 PM, Felix Knecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, here's an idea let us see if we can adapt/configure it for our needs: Put the *help modules into a separate profile and have it activated by ? (see [1]). We just need to find an appropriate activator which fits our needs. We can have e.g. such a timestamp file (exist or not) to activate to 'help' profile. The question is just 'How to figure out if something has changed?. One possibility could be that we create such a file when doing a build and only delete it when running a new build including the 'clean' goal - adapt the clean goal configuration in such a way that it deletes the timestamp file. The timestamp file needs to be added to svn:ignore and it's location can/should be in the *help modules root directory. As said, just an idea. Maybe there are better solutions. I must have catch the Maven way of thinking, because I was thinking about something pretty similar... Hehe. A special profile that gets triggered when we want, or based on a condition (a file existing [or not] somewhere). We'll see that after I'm done with the Manifests. ;) I gave it a try (http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?rev=698281view=rev). If you think it's not what you had in mind feel free to revert it. Regards Felix
Re: [Studio] How to speed up build time?
David Jencks schrieb: On Sep 23, 2008, at 10:40 AM, Pierre-Arnaud Marcelot wrote: On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 7:21 PM, Felix Knecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, here's an idea let us see if we can adapt/configure it for our needs: Put the *help modules into a separate profile and have it activated by ? (see [1]). We just need to find an appropriate activator which fits our needs. We can have e.g. such a timestamp file (exist or not) to activate to 'help' profile. The question is just 'How to figure out if something has changed?. One possibility could be that we create such a file when doing a build and only delete it when running a new build including the 'clean' goal - adapt the clean goal configuration in such a way that it deletes the timestamp file. The timestamp file needs to be added to svn:ignore and it's location can/should be in the *help modules root directory. As said, just an idea. Maybe there are better solutions. I must have catch the Maven way of thinking, because I was thinking about something pretty similar... Hehe. A special profile that gets triggered when we want, or based on a condition (a file existing [or not] somewhere). We'll see that after I'm done with the Manifests. ;) In general the fact that a module hasn't changed doesn't mean it will build: the stuff it depends on might have changed to break it. Thus I think CI builds should be complete builds of everything. There's been activity recently in maven on enabling dependency based partial builds. IIUC most of this will be in maven 2.1-M2 (it's apparently in trunk) and there's a plugin for earlier mavens. I haven't tried it personally yet the first experiment I made didn't work and I didn't poke very hard to find out what was wrong. http://maven.apache.org/plugins/maven-reactor-plugin/ At first glance I don't see how the reactor plugin could help us. We have submodules which should be built only if there are any file changes in the specific submodule- Regards Felix
Re: [Studio] How to speed up build time?
On Sep 23, 2008, at 11:59 AM, Felix Knecht wrote: David Jencks schrieb: On Sep 23, 2008, at 10:40 AM, Pierre-Arnaud Marcelot wrote: On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 7:21 PM, Felix Knecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, here's an idea let us see if we can adapt/configure it for our needs: Put the *help modules into a separate profile and have it activated by ? (see [1]). We just need to find an appropriate activator which fits our needs. We can have e.g. such a timestamp file (exist or not) to activate to 'help' profile. The question is just 'How to figure out if something has changed?. One possibility could be that we create such a file when doing a build and only delete it when running a new build including the 'clean' goal - adapt the clean goal configuration in such a way that it deletes the timestamp file. The timestamp file needs to be added to svn:ignore and it's location can/should be in the *help modules root directory. As said, just an idea. Maybe there are better solutions. I must have catch the Maven way of thinking, because I was thinking about something pretty similar... Hehe. A special profile that gets triggered when we want, or based on a condition (a file existing [or not] somewhere). We'll see that after I'm done with the Manifests. ;) In general the fact that a module hasn't changed doesn't mean it will build: the stuff it depends on might have changed to break it. Thus I think CI builds should be complete builds of everything. There's been activity recently in maven on enabling dependency based partial builds. IIUC most of this will be in maven 2.1-M2 (it's apparently in trunk) and there's a plugin for earlier mavens. I haven't tried it personally yet the first experiment I made didn't work and I didn't poke very hard to find out what was wrong. http://maven.apache.org/plugins/maven-reactor-plugin/ At first glance I don't see how the reactor plugin could help us. We have submodules which should be built only if there are any file changes in the specific submodule- I probably don't understand the problem you are trying to solve. I thought the way one would typically use the reactor plugin was, - I know I changed something in module X - I want to see what breaks as a result - so I start the build at X and build all the modules that depend on it. This seems like what you are describing so I'm probably missing the important point in your situation :-) thanks david jencks Regards Felix
Re: [Studio] How to speed up build time?
David Jencks wrote: I probably don't understand the problem you are trying to solve. I thought the way one would typically use the reactor plugin was, - I know I changed something in module X - I want to see what breaks as a result - so I start the build at X and build all the modules that depend on it. In our case, building the help files cost around 65% of the global build time (more than 6 minutes out of 10 on a laptop). The idea is to avoid to build those help files, which use extensive XSLT processing, in order to have a faster build, except if we are building a release. -- -- cordialement, regards, Emmanuel Lécharny www.iktek.com directory.apache.org
Re: [Studio] How to speed up build time?
Emmanuel Lecharny wrote: In our case, building the help files cost around 65% of the global build time (more than 6 minutes out of 10 on a laptop). The idea is to avoid to build those help files, which use extensive XSLT processing, in order to have a faster build, except if we are building a release. One possibility is to break the help files into their own module, which can then be built separately (if at all). Regards, Graham -- smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature