Re: Re-define: What is Helix
How about this Helix - A framework for distributed systems development Helix - A Distributed System Development toolkit On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 1:12 PM, Greg Brandt brandt.g...@gmail.com wrote: From talking w/ Kishore earlier, think the key thing to convey to users is the level of control they get. Cluster manager/management seems like something relatively out of the user's control, like some external service that contains their services. But framework or toolkit conveys more control, like the user is building a system such as a cluster manager (in the YARN / Mesos sense), which is probably more in-line with what Helix actually is. -Greg On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 1:07 PM, kishore g g.kish...@gmail.com wrote: Throwing in another option Toolkit for building distributed systems. On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 11:30 AM, Kanak Biscuitwala kana...@hotmail.com wrote: SolrCloud's Helix clone throws around the word orchestrate. I have found it to be a useful term when describing Helix to others as well. Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 11:25:27 -0700 Subject: Re: Re-define: What is Helix From: osgig...@gmail.com To: u...@helix.apache.org CC: dev@helix.apache.org I read through the response on the stackoverflow and from what I know the crux of the Helix framework appears to be 'Automation of Declarative State Management for Clustered Resources' ... now isn't that a mouth-full :-) I think any other capability with scaling etc is add-on to the core competency of Helix. On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Shirshanka Das shirsha...@gmail.com wrote: Think about analogies to netty for network programming in Java _ From: kishore g g.kish...@gmail.com Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 10:46 AM Subject: Re-define: What is Helix To: u...@helix.apache.org, dev@helix.apache.org Hi,This is something that has been bothering most of us. Should we callHelix *clustermanagement framework*? Its a framework alright, but is it clustermanager?- I am not sure. Cluster management is a broad term and can meandifferent things to different people. But the most common understanding ofcluster management term is managing a set of machines and starting/stoppingprocesses on those machines. In other words, it cluster management issynonymous to a deployment solution.Because of this terminology, Helix is often compared with Mesos/YARN/Ambariand other frameworks that manage the start/stop of processes. I haveanswered this athttp://stackoverflow.com/questions/16401412/apache-helix-vs-yarn but everyone i talk to ask the same question again and again. For e.g. some oneasked if they can put together a Hadoop Cluster using Helix. Here is the Hadoopecosystem table where Helix islabelled as system deployment.I feel the best way to clear this confusion is re-brand Helix as somethingelse that helps one understand what it is and when can some one use it.What do others think. Any suggestions on what we should re-brand it as?thanks,Kishore G
Re: Re-define: What is Helix
+1 for Helix - A framework for distributed systems development On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 10:07 AM, kishore g g.kish...@gmail.com wrote: How about this Helix - A framework for distributed systems development Helix - A Distributed System Development toolkit On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 1:12 PM, Greg Brandt brandt.g...@gmail.com wrote: From talking w/ Kishore earlier, think the key thing to convey to users is the level of control they get. Cluster manager/management seems like something relatively out of the user's control, like some external service that contains their services. But framework or toolkit conveys more control, like the user is building a system such as a cluster manager (in the YARN / Mesos sense), which is probably more in-line with what Helix actually is. -Greg On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 1:07 PM, kishore g g.kish...@gmail.com wrote: Throwing in another option Toolkit for building distributed systems. On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 11:30 AM, Kanak Biscuitwala kana...@hotmail.com wrote: SolrCloud's Helix clone throws around the word orchestrate. I have found it to be a useful term when describing Helix to others as well. Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 11:25:27 -0700 Subject: Re: Re-define: What is Helix From: osgig...@gmail.com To: u...@helix.apache.org CC: dev@helix.apache.org I read through the response on the stackoverflow and from what I know the crux of the Helix framework appears to be 'Automation of Declarative State Management for Clustered Resources' ... now isn't that a mouth-full :-) I think any other capability with scaling etc is add-on to the core competency of Helix. On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Shirshanka Das shirsha...@gmail.com wrote: Think about analogies to netty for network programming in Java _ From: kishore g g.kish...@gmail.com Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 10:46 AM Subject: Re-define: What is Helix To: u...@helix.apache.org, dev@helix.apache.org Hi,This is something that has been bothering most of us. Should we callHelix *clustermanagement framework*? Its a framework alright, but is it clustermanager?- I am not sure. Cluster management is a broad term and can meandifferent things to different people. But the most common understanding ofcluster management term is managing a set of machines and starting/stoppingprocesses on those machines. In other words, it cluster management issynonymous to a deployment solution.Because of this terminology, Helix is often compared with Mesos/YARN/Ambariand other frameworks that manage the start/stop of processes. I haveanswered this athttp:// stackoverflow.com/questions/16401412/apache-helix-vs-yarn but everyone i talk to ask the same question again and again. For e.g. some oneasked if they can put together a Hadoop Cluster using Helix. Here is the Hadoopecosystem table where Helix islabelled as system deployment.I feel the best way to clear this confusion is re-brand Helix as somethingelse that helps one understand what it is and when can some one use it.What do others think. Any suggestions on what we should re-brand it as?thanks,Kishore G
Re: Re-define: What is Helix
Definitely a framework. A framework provides (and imposes) structure and gives you a working solution. A toolkit has building blocks, but you're on your own to put them together. Consider adding either of these modifiers, though that might weaken the message because of whatever we omit from the modifier list: Helix - A framework for reliable distributed systems development Helix - A framework for scalable distributed systems development - Bob How about this Helix - A framework for distributed systems development Helix - A Distributed System Development toolkit On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 1:12 PM, Greg Brandt brandt.g...@gmail.com wrote: From talking w/ Kishore earlier, think the key thing to convey to users is the level of control they get. Cluster manager/management seems like something relatively out of the user's control, like some external service that contains their services. But framework or toolkit conveys more control, like the user is building a system such as a cluster manager (in the YARN / Mesos sense), which is probably more in-line with what Helix actually is. -Greg On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 1:07 PM, kishore g g.kish...@gmail.com wrote: Throwing in another option Toolkit for building distributed systems. On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 11:30 AM, Kanak Biscuitwala kana...@hotmail.com wrote: SolrCloud's Helix clone throws around the word orchestrate. I have found it to be a useful term when describing Helix to others as well. Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 11:25:27 -0700 Subject: Re: Re-define: What is Helix From: osgig...@gmail.com To: u...@helix.apache.org CC: dev@helix.apache.org I read through the response on the stackoverflow and from what I know the crux of the Helix framework appears to be 'Automation of Declarative State Management for Clustered Resources' ... now isn't that a mouth-full :-) I think any other capability with scaling etc is add-on to the core competency of Helix. On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Shirshanka Das shirsha...@gmail.com wrote: Think about analogies to netty for network programming in Java _ From: kishore g g.kish...@gmail.com Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 10:46 AM Subject: Re-define: What is Helix To: u...@helix.apache.org, dev@helix.apache.org Hi,This is something that has been bothering most of us. Should we callHelix *clustermanagement framework*? Its a framework alright, but is it clustermanager?- I am not sure. Cluster management is a broad term and can meandifferent things to different people. But the most common understanding ofcluster management term is managing a set of machines and starting/stoppingprocesses on those machines. In other words, it cluster management issynonymous to a deployment solution.Because of this terminology, Helix is often compared with Mesos/YARN/Ambariand other frameworks that manage the start/stop of processes. I haveanswered this athttp://stackoverflow.com/questions/16401412/apache-helix-vs-y arn but everyone i talk to ask the same question again and again. For e.g. some oneasked if they can put together a Hadoop Cluster using Helix. Here is the Hadoopecosystem table where Helix islabelled as system deployment.I feel the best way to clear this confusion is re-brand Helix as somethingelse that helps one understand what it is and when can some one use it.What do others think. Any suggestions on what we should re-brand it as?thanks,Kishore G
Re: Re-define: What is Helix
I was going to suggest 'An framework to manage/orchestrate distributed systems'. I use manage or orchestrate as suggestion to pick one, I lean towards orchestrate. I think Kanak was the first one to suggest 'orchestrate' and I thought it fit well. I also agree with Bob's latter statement that by virtue of omitting one or the other of the modifiers it could give the reader a wrong impression. So I would lean towards not adding any and go with the notion that users should expect these to be reliable and scalable. On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 11:01 AM, Bob Schulman b...@schulman.com wrote: Definitely a framework. A framework provides (and imposes) structure and gives you a working solution. A toolkit has building blocks, but you're on your own to put them together. Consider adding either of these modifiers, though that might weaken the message because of whatever we omit from the modifier list: Helix - A framework for reliable distributed systems development Helix - A framework for scalable distributed systems development - Bob How about this Helix - A framework for distributed systems development Helix - A Distributed System Development toolkit On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 1:12 PM, Greg Brandt brandt.g...@gmail.com wrote: From talking w/ Kishore earlier, think the key thing to convey to users is the level of control they get. Cluster manager/management seems like something relatively out of the user's control, like some external service that contains their services. But framework or toolkit conveys more control, like the user is building a system such as a cluster manager (in the YARN / Mesos sense), which is probably more in-line with what Helix actually is. -Greg On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 1:07 PM, kishore g g.kish...@gmail.com wrote: Throwing in another option Toolkit for building distributed systems. On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 11:30 AM, Kanak Biscuitwala kana...@hotmail.com wrote: SolrCloud's Helix clone throws around the word orchestrate. I have found it to be a useful term when describing Helix to others as well. Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 11:25:27 -0700 Subject: Re: Re-define: What is Helix From: osgig...@gmail.com To: u...@helix.apache.org CC: dev@helix.apache.org I read through the response on the stackoverflow and from what I know the crux of the Helix framework appears to be 'Automation of Declarative State Management for Clustered Resources' ... now isn't that a mouth-full :-) I think any other capability with scaling etc is add-on to the core competency of Helix. On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Shirshanka Das shirsha...@gmail.com wrote: Think about analogies to netty for network programming in Java _ From: kishore g g.kish...@gmail.com Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 10:46 AM Subject: Re-define: What is Helix To: u...@helix.apache.org, dev@helix.apache.org Hi,This is something that has been bothering most of us. Should we callHelix *clustermanagement framework*? Its a framework alright, but is it clustermanager?- I am not sure. Cluster management is a broad term and can meandifferent things to different people. But the most common understanding ofcluster management term is managing a set of machines and starting/stoppingprocesses on those machines. In other words, it cluster management issynonymous to a deployment solution.Because of this terminology, Helix is often compared with Mesos/YARN/Ambariand other frameworks that manage the start/stop of processes. I haveanswered this athttp://stackoverflow.com/questions/16401412/apache-helix-vs-y arn but everyone i talk to ask the same question again and again. For e.g. some oneasked if they can put together a Hadoop Cluster using Helix. Here is the Hadoopecosystem table where Helix islabelled as system deployment.I feel the best way to clear this confusion is re-brand Helix as somethingelse that helps one understand what it is and when can some one use it.What do others think. Any suggestions on what we should re-brand it as?thanks,Kishore G
Re: Re-define: What is Helix
Think about analogies to netty for network programming in Javanbsp; _ From: kishore g lt;g.kish...@gmail.comgt; Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 10:46 AM Subject: Re-define: What is Helix To: lt;u...@helix.apache.orggt;, lt;dev@helix.apache.orggt; Hi,This is something that has been bothering most of us. Should we callHelix *quot;clustermanagement frameworkquot;*? Its a framework alright, but is it clustermanager?- I am not sure. Cluster management is a broad term and can meandifferent things to different people. But the most common understanding ofcluster management term is managing a set of machines and starting/stoppingprocesses on those machines. In other words, it cluster management issynonymous to a deployment solution.Because of this terminology, Helix is often compared with Mesos/YARN/Ambariand other frameworks that manage the start/stop of processes. I haveanswered this athttp://stackoverflow.com/questions/16401412/apache-helix-vs-yarn but everyone i talk to ask the same question again and again. For e.g. some oneasked if they can put together a Hadoop Cluster using Helix. Here is the Hadoopecosystem table where Helix islabelled as system deployment.I feel the best way to clear this confusion is re-brand Helix as somethingelse that helps one understand what it is and when can some one use it.What do others think. Any suggestions on what we should re-brand it as?thanks,Kishore G
Re: Re-define: What is Helix
I read through the response on the stackoverflow and from what I know the crux of the Helix framework appears to be 'Automation of Declarative State Management for Clustered Resources' ... now isn't that a mouth-full :-) I think any other capability with scaling etc is add-on to the core competency of Helix. On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Shirshanka Das shirsha...@gmail.com wrote: Think about analogies to netty for network programming in Java _ From: kishore g g.kish...@gmail.com Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 10:46 AM Subject: Re-define: What is Helix To: u...@helix.apache.org, dev@helix.apache.org Hi,This is something that has been bothering most of us. Should we callHelix *clustermanagement framework*? Its a framework alright, but is it clustermanager?- I am not sure. Cluster management is a broad term and can meandifferent things to different people. But the most common understanding ofcluster management term is managing a set of machines and starting/stoppingprocesses on those machines. In other words, it cluster management issynonymous to a deployment solution.Because of this terminology, Helix is often compared with Mesos/YARN/Ambariand other frameworks that manage the start/stop of processes. I haveanswered this athttp://stackoverflow.com/questions/16401412/apache-helix-vs-yarn but everyone i talk to ask the same question again and again. For e.g. some oneasked if they can put together a Hadoop Cluster using Helix. Here is the Hadoopecosystem table where Helix islabelled as system deployment.I feel the best way to clear this confusion is re-brand Helix as somethingelse that helps one understand what it is and when can some one use it.What do others think. Any suggestions on what we should re-brand it as?thanks,Kishore G
RE: Re-define: What is Helix
SolrCloud's Helix clone throws around the word orchestrate. I have found it to be a useful term when describing Helix to others as well. Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 11:25:27 -0700 Subject: Re: Re-define: What is Helix From: osgig...@gmail.com To: u...@helix.apache.org CC: dev@helix.apache.org I read through the response on the stackoverflow and from what I know the crux of the Helix framework appears to be 'Automation of Declarative State Management for Clustered Resources' ... now isn't that a mouth-full :-) I think any other capability with scaling etc is add-on to the core competency of Helix. On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Shirshanka Das shirsha...@gmail.com wrote: Think about analogies to netty for network programming in Java _ From: kishore g g.kish...@gmail.com Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 10:46 AM Subject: Re-define: What is Helix To: u...@helix.apache.org, dev@helix.apache.org Hi,This is something that has been bothering most of us. Should we callHelix *clustermanagement framework*? Its a framework alright, but is it clustermanager?- I am not sure. Cluster management is a broad term and can meandifferent things to different people. But the most common understanding ofcluster management term is managing a set of machines and starting/stoppingprocesses on those machines. In other words, it cluster management issynonymous to a deployment solution.Because of this terminology, Helix is often compared with Mesos/YARN/Ambariand other frameworks that manage the start/stop of processes. I haveanswered this athttp://stackoverflow.com/questions/16401412/apache-helix-vs-yarn but everyone i talk to ask the same question again and again. For e.g. some oneasked if they can put together a Hadoop Cluster using Helix. Here is the Hadoopecosystem table where Helix islabelled as system deployment.I feel the best way to clear this confusion is re-brand Helix as somethingelse that helps one understand what it is and when can some one use it.What do others think. Any suggestions on what we should re-brand it as?thanks,Kishore G
Re: Re-define: What is Helix
Throwing in another option Toolkit for building distributed systems. On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 11:30 AM, Kanak Biscuitwala kana...@hotmail.com wrote: SolrCloud's Helix clone throws around the word orchestrate. I have found it to be a useful term when describing Helix to others as well. Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 11:25:27 -0700 Subject: Re: Re-define: What is Helix From: osgig...@gmail.com To: u...@helix.apache.org CC: dev@helix.apache.org I read through the response on the stackoverflow and from what I know the crux of the Helix framework appears to be 'Automation of Declarative State Management for Clustered Resources' ... now isn't that a mouth-full :-) I think any other capability with scaling etc is add-on to the core competency of Helix. On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Shirshanka Das shirsha...@gmail.com wrote: Think about analogies to netty for network programming in Java _ From: kishore g g.kish...@gmail.com Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 10:46 AM Subject: Re-define: What is Helix To: u...@helix.apache.org, dev@helix.apache.org Hi,This is something that has been bothering most of us. Should we callHelix *clustermanagement framework*? Its a framework alright, but is it clustermanager?- I am not sure. Cluster management is a broad term and can meandifferent things to different people. But the most common understanding ofcluster management term is managing a set of machines and starting/stoppingprocesses on those machines. In other words, it cluster management issynonymous to a deployment solution.Because of this terminology, Helix is often compared with Mesos/YARN/Ambariand other frameworks that manage the start/stop of processes. I haveanswered this athttp://stackoverflow.com/questions/16401412/apache-helix-vs-yarn but everyone i talk to ask the same question again and again. For e.g. some oneasked if they can put together a Hadoop Cluster using Helix. Here is the Hadoopecosystem table where Helix islabelled as system deployment.I feel the best way to clear this confusion is re-brand Helix as somethingelse that helps one understand what it is and when can some one use it.What do others think. Any suggestions on what we should re-brand it as?thanks,Kishore G
Re: Re-define: What is Helix
How about Distributed state coordinator? From: kishore g g.kish...@gmail.commailto:g.kish...@gmail.com Reply-To: u...@helix.apache.orgmailto:u...@helix.apache.org u...@helix.apache.orgmailto:u...@helix.apache.org Date: Friday, July 11, 2014 1:07 PM To: u...@helix.apache.orgmailto:u...@helix.apache.org u...@helix.apache.orgmailto:u...@helix.apache.org Cc: dev@helix.apache.orgmailto:dev@helix.apache.org dev@helix.apache.orgmailto:dev@helix.apache.org Subject: Re: Re-define: What is Helix Throwing in another option Toolkit for building distributed systems. On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 11:30 AM, Kanak Biscuitwala kana...@hotmail.commailto:kana...@hotmail.com wrote: SolrCloud's Helix clone throws around the word orchestrate. I have found it to be a useful term when describing Helix to others as well. Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 11:25:27 -0700 Subject: Re: Re-define: What is Helix From: osgig...@gmail.commailto:osgig...@gmail.com To: u...@helix.apache.orgmailto:u...@helix.apache.org CC: dev@helix.apache.orgmailto:dev@helix.apache.org I read through the response on the stackoverflow and from what I know the crux of the Helix framework appears to be 'Automation of Declarative State Management for Clustered Resources' ... now isn't that a mouth-full :-) I think any other capability with scaling etc is add-on to the core competency of Helix. On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Shirshanka Das shirsha...@gmail.commailto:shirsha...@gmail.com wrote: Think about analogies to netty for network programming in Java _ From: kishore g g.kish...@gmail.commailto:g.kish...@gmail.com Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 10:46 AM Subject: Re-define: What is Helix To: u...@helix.apache.orgmailto:u...@helix.apache.org, dev@helix.apache.orgmailto:dev@helix.apache.org Hi,This is something that has been bothering most of us. Should we callHelix *clustermanagement framework*? Its a framework alright, but is it clustermanager?- I am not sure. Cluster management is a broad term and can meandifferent things to different people. But the most common understanding ofcluster management term is managing a set of machines and starting/stoppingprocesses on those machines. In other words, it cluster management issynonymous to a deployment solution.Because of this terminology, Helix is often compared with Mesos/YARN/Ambariand other frameworks that manage the start/stop of processes. I haveanswered this athttp://stackoverflow.com/questions/16401412/apache-helix-vs-yarnhttp://stackoverflow.com/questions/16401412/apache-helix-vs-yarn but everyone i talk to ask the same question again and again. For e.g. some oneasked if they can put together a Hadoop Cluster using Helix. Here is the Hadoopecosystem table where Helix islabelled as system deployment.I feel the best way to clear this confusion is re-brand Helix as somethingelse that helps one understand what it is and when can some one use it.What do others think. Any suggestions on what we should re-brand it as?thanks,Kishore G
Re: Re-define: What is Helix
From talking w/ Kishore earlier, think the key thing to convey to users is the level of control they get. Cluster manager/management seems like something relatively out of the user's control, like some external service that contains their services. But framework or toolkit conveys more control, like the user is building a system such as a cluster manager (in the YARN / Mesos sense), which is probably more in-line with what Helix actually is. -Greg On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 1:07 PM, kishore g g.kish...@gmail.com wrote: Throwing in another option Toolkit for building distributed systems. On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 11:30 AM, Kanak Biscuitwala kana...@hotmail.com wrote: SolrCloud's Helix clone throws around the word orchestrate. I have found it to be a useful term when describing Helix to others as well. Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 11:25:27 -0700 Subject: Re: Re-define: What is Helix From: osgig...@gmail.com To: u...@helix.apache.org CC: dev@helix.apache.org I read through the response on the stackoverflow and from what I know the crux of the Helix framework appears to be 'Automation of Declarative State Management for Clustered Resources' ... now isn't that a mouth-full :-) I think any other capability with scaling etc is add-on to the core competency of Helix. On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Shirshanka Das shirsha...@gmail.com wrote: Think about analogies to netty for network programming in Java _ From: kishore g g.kish...@gmail.com Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 10:46 AM Subject: Re-define: What is Helix To: u...@helix.apache.org, dev@helix.apache.org Hi,This is something that has been bothering most of us. Should we callHelix *clustermanagement framework*? Its a framework alright, but is it clustermanager?- I am not sure. Cluster management is a broad term and can meandifferent things to different people. But the most common understanding ofcluster management term is managing a set of machines and starting/stoppingprocesses on those machines. In other words, it cluster management issynonymous to a deployment solution.Because of this terminology, Helix is often compared with Mesos/YARN/Ambariand other frameworks that manage the start/stop of processes. I haveanswered this athttp://stackoverflow.com/questions/16401412/apache-helix-vs-yarn but everyone i talk to ask the same question again and again. For e.g. some oneasked if they can put together a Hadoop Cluster using Helix. Here is the Hadoopecosystem table where Helix islabelled as system deployment.I feel the best way to clear this confusion is re-brand Helix as somethingelse that helps one understand what it is and when can some one use it.What do others think. Any suggestions on what we should re-brand it as?thanks,Kishore G
