Re: Options to contribute to NuttX without github?
Hi, I realistically know that ai cant be avoided while there is money to be made. I have no problems contributing bits to NuttX knowing that they will feed the beast. The reason I started this, is that I wanted to take the symbolic step to *entirely delete* my github account, instead of keeping it just for NuttX (I have already removed my code from it, of course) Pushing patches is probably a solution to this, but that would give work to someone else and I dont like it. I'll keep github for now. These gitbox repos are a good thing, but they are very much not advertised at all and I did not know about them. But this URL redirects to github, so the gitbox cant actually be accessed: https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=nuttx.git even via here I get a redirect: https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf Sebastien Le 22/03/2024 à 00:57, Nathan Hartman a écrit : For those who cannot or don't want to access GitHub, the gitbox repos on ASF infrastructure are actually the "real" source of truth. As I understand it, our GitHub repos are really some kind of mirror that is kept in a two-way sync with gitbox. (Unless something has changed since I last looked into it.) However, the way we use GitHub makes it so that GitHub is for all practical purposes the central thing for us and gitbox is some kind of afterthought (if we even remember that it's there). We as a project don't have to work in a GitHub-centric way. We could choose to use ASF's Jira for issues, ASF's buildbots for CI, etc. But GitHub's all-in-one way of working and the fact that it's so entrenched makes it the path of least resistance for most users and contributors around the world, and probably the least maintenance and administration effort for us. That's probably why GitHub is in such widespread use. The convenience and entrenchment is either an advantage (if you just want to write code and not muck around with administering all kinds of systems or teaching contributors your special way of working) or a disadvantage (if you don't like dealing with the other baggage that comes with it), depending on your point of view. While I would rather we didn't depend on GitHub as much as we do, I recognize that if we work any other way, it will introduce friction and we'd likely take a big hit in the amount of contributors and contributions. So, not because I like it but just because that's practical reality, I'd rather accept it and just focus on getting work done. I went off on a tangent. I began by talking about gitbox, which is on ASF infra. If you set that up as your remote, you can pull from it and not deal with GitHub for pulling. But what about the other direction, when you want to upstream your work? Since we have adopted the convention that no one merges their own changes (this is a good convention in my opinion), and because of CI, anything you want to push has to become a PR somehow. I don't really know how that can happen. I suppose you can email it to dev@ with a subject line starting with [PATCH] and someone can volunteer to put it in a PR and sort of become the steward of it on GitHub. But this won't get us out of the "AI" training datasets. Nothing will. As others have said, all our code is public so anyone can take it and do things with it, including training AI, and I'm sure there are lots more of them than just this "Stack" thing. Nathan On Thu, Mar 21, 2024 at 6:43 PM Gregory Nutt wrote: I think we need to continue to use PRs at some point in the process. PRs are so tied into our CI that I don't think we could work around it. Can you use another GIT repository? If you create a PR on gitlab or bitbucket, someone could move the PR to github. Or perhaps we could take commits from a local repository clone? We haven't done it for a while, but patches could also be converted to github PRs with a little more effort. I think there are options, but without PRs on github, I don't see how you could independently make changes. On 3/21/2024 4:08 PM, Sebastien Lorquet wrote: Hi, I plan to leave github completely and delete my account, because of this: https://huggingface.co/spaces/bigcode/in-the-stack It is the last of reasons that make me want to leave this place for good. How can we imagine a process so I (and others) can continue to contribute to NuttX without using pull requests from github? or any public "forge" for that matter. Sebastien
Re: Options to contribute to NuttX without github?
Even if the NuttX PMC requested to opt-out from "The Stack" there could be (and probably are) a million other stacks, and many of those might be quite a bit less transparent about what they're doing. So, like I said before, all our code is public and there's not much we can do to prevent AIs from training on it, any less than we could prevent people from studying it. Nathan On Thu, Mar 21, 2024 at 7:06 PM Gregory Nutt wrote: > The more I think about, I believe you don't have to be concerned about > accessing github for Apache NuttX. Certainly, I respect your choice to > keep your personal code out of "The Stack". But NuttX will most likely > be in the Stack and any changes you submit to NuttX will be in the > Stack. So it may be awkward for you, but I don't see any reason for you > to avoid Apache NuttX in github while moving your personal code elsewhere. > > Am I missing something? You would probably like to make a clean break > with github, but I think continuing to use the Apache NuttX repository > (only) would be the more practical way to accomplished what you want to do. > > On 3/21/2024 4:43 PM, Gregory Nutt wrote: > > I think we need to continue to use PRs at some point in the process. > > PRs are so tied into our CI that I don't think we could work around it. > > > > Can you use another GIT repository? If you create a PR on gitlab or > > bitbucket, someone could move the PR to github. Or perhaps we could > > take commits from a local repository clone? We haven't done it for a > > while, but patches could also be converted to github PRs with a little > > more effort. > > > > I think there are options, but without PRs on github, I don't see how > > you could independently make changes. > > > > On 3/21/2024 4:08 PM, Sebastien Lorquet wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> I plan to leave github completely and delete my account, because of > >> this: https://huggingface.co/spaces/bigcode/in-the-stack > >> > >> It is the last of reasons that make me want to leave this place for > >> good. > >> > >> How can we imagine a process so I (and others) can continue to > >> contribute to NuttX without using pull requests from github? or any > >> public "forge" for that matter. > >> > >> Sebastien > >> >
Re: Options to contribute to NuttX without github?
For those who cannot or don't want to access GitHub, the gitbox repos on ASF infrastructure are actually the "real" source of truth. As I understand it, our GitHub repos are really some kind of mirror that is kept in a two-way sync with gitbox. (Unless something has changed since I last looked into it.) However, the way we use GitHub makes it so that GitHub is for all practical purposes the central thing for us and gitbox is some kind of afterthought (if we even remember that it's there). We as a project don't have to work in a GitHub-centric way. We could choose to use ASF's Jira for issues, ASF's buildbots for CI, etc. But GitHub's all-in-one way of working and the fact that it's so entrenched makes it the path of least resistance for most users and contributors around the world, and probably the least maintenance and administration effort for us. That's probably why GitHub is in such widespread use. The convenience and entrenchment is either an advantage (if you just want to write code and not muck around with administering all kinds of systems or teaching contributors your special way of working) or a disadvantage (if you don't like dealing with the other baggage that comes with it), depending on your point of view. While I would rather we didn't depend on GitHub as much as we do, I recognize that if we work any other way, it will introduce friction and we'd likely take a big hit in the amount of contributors and contributions. So, not because I like it but just because that's practical reality, I'd rather accept it and just focus on getting work done. I went off on a tangent. I began by talking about gitbox, which is on ASF infra. If you set that up as your remote, you can pull from it and not deal with GitHub for pulling. But what about the other direction, when you want to upstream your work? Since we have adopted the convention that no one merges their own changes (this is a good convention in my opinion), and because of CI, anything you want to push has to become a PR somehow. I don't really know how that can happen. I suppose you can email it to dev@ with a subject line starting with [PATCH] and someone can volunteer to put it in a PR and sort of become the steward of it on GitHub. But this won't get us out of the "AI" training datasets. Nothing will. As others have said, all our code is public so anyone can take it and do things with it, including training AI, and I'm sure there are lots more of them than just this "Stack" thing. Nathan On Thu, Mar 21, 2024 at 6:43 PM Gregory Nutt wrote: > I think we need to continue to use PRs at some point in the process. > PRs are so tied into our CI that I don't think we could work around it. > > Can you use another GIT repository? If you create a PR on gitlab or > bitbucket, someone could move the PR to github. Or perhaps we could > take commits from a local repository clone? We haven't done it for a > while, but patches could also be converted to github PRs with a little > more effort. > > I think there are options, but without PRs on github, I don't see how > you could independently make changes. > > On 3/21/2024 4:08 PM, Sebastien Lorquet wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I plan to leave github completely and delete my account, because of > > this: https://huggingface.co/spaces/bigcode/in-the-stack > > > > It is the last of reasons that make me want to leave this place for good. > > > > How can we imagine a process so I (and others) can continue to > > contribute to NuttX without using pull requests from github? or any > > public "forge" for that matter. > > > > Sebastien > > >
Re: Options to contribute to NuttX without github?
Most of the Apache code base is already in that Stack I have checked. Some of my repos too. But they are public anyways. I understand that this may be frustrating and depressing. I also see that trend of low wage low skill works only available around. Not much respect for skills and experience. Quick wins only. Demands. Enforced changes. Ghost releases with numbers not present anywhere in the branch/tar/doc referencing master with completely different numbers. Like nothing matters anymore. Like "AI _is_already_replacing_coders_ so the boom for IT is over" I heard today from a living non-technical human. All I have ever done all was for myself. For fun, development, creativity, curiosity, problem solving, to help my friends and family, to make world around a better place. Would I play with NuttX or FreeBSD or Atari no matter what, for sure. All that matters is what I do, how I do it, and why. Anyone / anything can make a good use of what I share for free. Sebastien, you may consider GitHub a tool that is used to achieve a particular goal (i.e. NuttX contribution). I also use Windows sometimes when there is no other choice (i.e. machine control, games). What is important is what comes out of that tool. Even if the only goal is your own happiness this is important. If AI evolves (into 01 / Zero-One nation like in Animatrix) and start creating things beyond our comprehension, okay, we have not much choice, but if the world still exist by then, maybe this could be a time to get a family home with garden and finally play with NuttX on Atari :-) There might be also a good outcomes like world peace, cure for cancer, clean and free energy sources, space exploration. Who knows maybe when the burden of daily life paying bills chasing the rabbit is gone, maybe there will be more time for consciousness and self development for those who care :-) -- CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info On Fri, Mar 22, 2024 at 12:06 AM Gregory Nutt wrote: > > The more I think about, I believe you don't have to be concerned about > accessing github for Apache NuttX. Certainly, I respect your choice to > keep your personal code out of "The Stack". But NuttX will most likely > be in the Stack and any changes you submit to NuttX will be in the > Stack. So it may be awkward for you, but I don't see any reason for you > to avoid Apache NuttX in github while moving your personal code elsewhere. > > Am I missing something? You would probably like to make a clean break > with github, but I think continuing to use the Apache NuttX repository > (only) would be the more practical way to accomplished what you want to do. > > On 3/21/2024 4:43 PM, Gregory Nutt wrote: > > I think we need to continue to use PRs at some point in the process. > > PRs are so tied into our CI that I don't think we could work around it. > > > > Can you use another GIT repository? If you create a PR on gitlab or > > bitbucket, someone could move the PR to github. Or perhaps we could > > take commits from a local repository clone? We haven't done it for a > > while, but patches could also be converted to github PRs with a little > > more effort. > > > > I think there are options, but without PRs on github, I don't see how > > you could independently make changes. > > > > On 3/21/2024 4:08 PM, Sebastien Lorquet wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> I plan to leave github completely and delete my account, because of > >> this: https://huggingface.co/spaces/bigcode/in-the-stack > >> > >> It is the last of reasons that make me want to leave this place for > >> good. > >> > >> How can we imagine a process so I (and others) can continue to > >> contribute to NuttX without using pull requests from github? or any > >> public "forge" for that matter. > >> > >> Sebastien > >>
Re: Options to contribute to NuttX without github?
The more I think about, I believe you don't have to be concerned about accessing github for Apache NuttX. Certainly, I respect your choice to keep your personal code out of "The Stack". But NuttX will most likely be in the Stack and any changes you submit to NuttX will be in the Stack. So it may be awkward for you, but I don't see any reason for you to avoid Apache NuttX in github while moving your personal code elsewhere. Am I missing something? You would probably like to make a clean break with github, but I think continuing to use the Apache NuttX repository (only) would be the more practical way to accomplished what you want to do. On 3/21/2024 4:43 PM, Gregory Nutt wrote: I think we need to continue to use PRs at some point in the process. PRs are so tied into our CI that I don't think we could work around it. Can you use another GIT repository? If you create a PR on gitlab or bitbucket, someone could move the PR to github. Or perhaps we could take commits from a local repository clone? We haven't done it for a while, but patches could also be converted to github PRs with a little more effort. I think there are options, but without PRs on github, I don't see how you could independently make changes. On 3/21/2024 4:08 PM, Sebastien Lorquet wrote: Hi, I plan to leave github completely and delete my account, because of this: https://huggingface.co/spaces/bigcode/in-the-stack It is the last of reasons that make me want to leave this place for good. How can we imagine a process so I (and others) can continue to contribute to NuttX without using pull requests from github? or any public "forge" for that matter. Sebastien
Re: Options to contribute to NuttX without github?
I think we need to continue to use PRs at some point in the process. PRs are so tied into our CI that I don't think we could work around it. Can you use another GIT repository? If you create a PR on gitlab or bitbucket, someone could move the PR to github. Or perhaps we could take commits from a local repository clone? We haven't done it for a while, but patches could also be converted to github PRs with a little more effort. I think there are options, but without PRs on github, I don't see how you could independently make changes. On 3/21/2024 4:08 PM, Sebastien Lorquet wrote: Hi, I plan to leave github completely and delete my account, because of this: https://huggingface.co/spaces/bigcode/in-the-stack It is the last of reasons that make me want to leave this place for good. How can we imagine a process so I (and others) can continue to contribute to NuttX without using pull requests from github? or any public "forge" for that matter. Sebastien
Re: Options to contribute to NuttX without github?
Hmm, this Stack operates on stuff that is public anyway, so anyone can access and do whatever they like with it (assuming respecting the license), including AI training, private repositories are not exposed, right? Apache also use their own GitBox repository.. but that redirects to GitHub anyways o_O https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf#nuttx After Microsoft took over the GitHub I also switched to Open-Source GitLab (so did for instance KiCAD). But many projects are on GitHub and most people prefers that one. What is the problem here? Do I miss something? The repository is public anyways? What would change if we had switched to GitLab and someone trained silently their AI from that repository? What other way can you see to work on a public projects? -- CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info On Thu, Mar 21, 2024 at 11:09 PM Sebastien Lorquet wrote: > > Hi, > > I plan to leave github completely and delete my account, because of > this: https://huggingface.co/spaces/bigcode/in-the-stack > > It is the last of reasons that make me want to leave this place for good. > > How can we imagine a process so I (and others) can continue to > contribute to NuttX without using pull requests from github? or any > public "forge" for that matter. > > Sebastien >
