Re: Branding Refresh For AOO 4.0 [Closing in 72hrs]
That looks great! On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 5:00 PM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: On 02/03/2013 Samer Mansour wrote: I've populated some minimal how to participate info on https://cwiki.apache.org/**confluence/display/OOOUSERS/** Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+**Refresh+Projecthttps://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+Refresh+Project . Could you help with making that a blog post? Even if its short Call For Designers And a link to the above Thanks. I've put together a draft blog post, using your text, at http://blogs.apache.org/**preview/OOo/?previewEntry=** call_for_designers_apache_**openofficehttp://blogs.apache.org/preview/OOo/?previewEntry=call_for_designers_apache_openoffice Comments/suggestions welcome. Regards, Andrea. --**--**- To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.orgdev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Branding Refresh For AOO 4.0 [Closing in 72hrs]
On 02/03/2013 Samer Mansour wrote: I've populated some minimal how to participate info on https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+Refresh+Project. Could you help with making that a blog post? Even if its short Call For Designers And a link to the above Thanks. I've put together a draft blog post, using your text, at http://blogs.apache.org/preview/OOo/?previewEntry=call_for_designers_apache_openoffice Comments/suggestions welcome. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Branding Refresh For AOO 4.0 [Closing in 72hrs]
Andrea, I've populated some minimal how to participate info on https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+Refresh+Project . Could you help with making that a blog post? Even if its short Call For Designers And a link to the above Samer On Sun, Feb 24, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Samer Mansour samer...@gmail.com wrote: Kevin Grignon if you have spare time and experience in the area of design language and messaging your help would be really appreciated as I have limited experience in this area. If you have a cwiki account, I don't mind if you alter the pages I've worked on. https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+Refresh+Project Andrea I'll try to populate the wiki better so that it leads into each design area and add more contact information and submission help so volunteers know how to subscribe to the marketing mailing list and post their proposals to the cwiki. Then we can blog saying we need designers for ideas and to help implement. This is going to take me a few days, I'm really busy in the next day or so. Samer On Sun, Feb 24, 2013 at 3:51 AM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.orgwrote: On 23/02/2013 Rob Weir wrote: My advice: continue pushing the effort forward, but avoid the perception of exclusion that comes by specifying a hard deadline, especially a sudden one. The progress of AOO 4.0 will create its own practical deadline. And my advice (in addition to agreeing with Rob on this): get exposure. The text in https://cwiki.apache.org/**confluence/display/OOOUSERS/** Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+**Refresh+Projecthttps://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+Refresh+Project can be copied almost verbatim to a blog post that can generate awareness, traffic and involvement, and perhaps a few unusable submissions, but also a few good ones. Choosing a new logo is an occasion to get more attention on one hand, and a duty to inform current users on the other hand: we are changing a well-known brand and this need proper communication. I've already written this, but it would be good to add to https://cwiki.apache.org/**confluence/display/OOOUSERS/** Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+**Refresh+Projecthttps://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+Refresh+Project(and to the possible blog post) some contact information, possibly the marketing or dev list. If you tweak the text so that it can be used as a blog post, I can take care of posting it to http://blogs.apache.org/OOo/ Regards, Andrea.
Re: Branding Refresh For AOO 4.0 [Closing in 72hrs]
On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 12:46 PM, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.comwrote: My pleasure. On Feb 25, 2013, at 4:26 AM, Samer Mansour samer...@gmail.com wrote: Kevin Grignon if you have spare time and experience in the area of design language and messaging your help would be really appreciated as I have limited experience in this area. If you have a cwiki account, I don't mind if you alter the pages I've worked on. https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+Refresh+Project Andrea I'll try to populate the wiki better so that it leads into each design area and add more contact information and submission help so volunteers know how to subscribe to the marketing mailing list and post their proposals to the cwiki. Then we can blog saying we need designers for ideas and to help implement. This is going to take me a few days, I'm really busy in the next day or so. Samer On Sun, Feb 24, 2013 at 3:51 AM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: On 23/02/2013 Rob Weir wrote: My advice: continue pushing the effort forward, but avoid the perception of exclusion that comes by specifying a hard deadline, especially a sudden one. The progress of AOO 4.0 will create its own practical deadline. And my advice (in addition to agreeing with Rob on this): get exposure. The text in https://cwiki.apache.org/**confluence/display/OOOUSERS/** Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+**Refresh+Project https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+Refresh+Project can be copied almost verbatim to a blog post that can generate awareness, traffic and involvement, and perhaps a few unusable submissions, but also a few good ones. Choosing a new logo is an occasion to get more attention on one hand, and a duty to inform current users on the other hand: we are changing a well-known brand and this need proper communication. I've already written this, but it would be good to add to https://cwiki.apache.org/**confluence/display/OOOUSERS/** Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+**Refresh+Project https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+Refresh+Project(and to the possible blog post) some contact information, possibly the marketing or dev list. If you tweak the text so that it can be used as a blog post, I can take care of posting it to http://blogs.apache.org/OOo/ Regards, Andrea. KG-01: I've added my logo submissions to the 4.0 logo concepts page. See: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/AOO+4.x+-+Logo+Explorations Regards, Kevin
Re: Branding Refresh For AOO 4.0 [Closing in 72hrs]
My pleasure. On Feb 25, 2013, at 4:26 AM, Samer Mansour samer...@gmail.com wrote: Kevin Grignon if you have spare time and experience in the area of design language and messaging your help would be really appreciated as I have limited experience in this area. If you have a cwiki account, I don't mind if you alter the pages I've worked on. https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+Refresh+Project Andrea I'll try to populate the wiki better so that it leads into each design area and add more contact information and submission help so volunteers know how to subscribe to the marketing mailing list and post their proposals to the cwiki. Then we can blog saying we need designers for ideas and to help implement. This is going to take me a few days, I'm really busy in the next day or so. Samer On Sun, Feb 24, 2013 at 3:51 AM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.orgwrote: On 23/02/2013 Rob Weir wrote: My advice: continue pushing the effort forward, but avoid the perception of exclusion that comes by specifying a hard deadline, especially a sudden one. The progress of AOO 4.0 will create its own practical deadline. And my advice (in addition to agreeing with Rob on this): get exposure. The text in https://cwiki.apache.org/**confluence/display/OOOUSERS/** Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+**Refresh+Projecthttps://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+Refresh+Project can be copied almost verbatim to a blog post that can generate awareness, traffic and involvement, and perhaps a few unusable submissions, but also a few good ones. Choosing a new logo is an occasion to get more attention on one hand, and a duty to inform current users on the other hand: we are changing a well-known brand and this need proper communication. I've already written this, but it would be good to add to https://cwiki.apache.org/**confluence/display/OOOUSERS/** Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+**Refresh+Projecthttps://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+Refresh+Project(and to the possible blog post) some contact information, possibly the marketing or dev list. If you tweak the text so that it can be used as a blog post, I can take care of posting it to http://blogs.apache.org/OOo/ Regards, Andrea.
Re: Branding Refresh For AOO 4.0 [Closing in 72hrs]
Hey Everyone, Let me first admit I felt Saturday (72 hrs) was short, but at the same time necessary. I expected someone would have said Wait I volunteer to make a proposal but I just don't have enough time in the next few days. On date and rush: The date that floated for design assets to be ready for consumption is April 4th, 2013 which is 40 days from this writing. We all would like to have the refresh integrated into the RCs, where applicable. What I've seen produced in the last two months has been more than the previous 10 months and is amazing work. If we pick something and just do it, I think we can make the 04/04 target. Our volunteers are very eager to start. On Voting: I asked for comments into the wiki's so that everyone can proposes ideas even if they are not artistically inclined. I'm relatively new to the community so I'm not sure what warrants a vote or how a change like in this particular situation is incorporated into the product, its not code to be checked in per say, but it is an asset. On Flex: Our community's make up is a little different. We have everyday students and diverse work industries using our product. Flex's community by nature is more exposed to designers. I would be horrified to find flex's community had anything less than an amazing site. Having said that I would totally be okay with approaching the flex community and asking humbly that we could use some help of theirs. Also I think their designer nature contributed to why they may have had 50 proposals :D Moving Forward: I know this will be a very opinionated activity. I invite anyone who is passionate about this activity to join the marketing team to help us do the work and complete the assets. I need a shed and they give me a purple one, I'm going to have to trust them. It is easier for me to take the opinion of someone if they did the work. Integration of the team: I've already seen activity that leads me to believe I'm taking the right path. Robin proposed a full design and someone suggested the script font was a little off. Robin agreed, the output now is something +2 agree with. If more input is given, my good faith says it will converge to a high percentage of the community's desires, but not necessarily everyone's. Samer Mansour On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 2:46 AM, Jürgen Schmidt jogischm...@gmail.comwrote: On 2/22/13 1:21 AM, Dave Fisher wrote: On Feb 21, 2013, at 4:02 PM, Dave Fisher wrote: (Note this discussion is going to be difficult because we are posting between two lists.) Adding back marketing, who are doing wonderful work. Look at http://flex.apache.org/. It might be an inspiration for someone. I saw the flex one before and was very impressed by the new logo. Maybe you can reach out there if some of the designers are interested to help us as well. A logo (and more design elements) for a 40 million downloaded app should be motivating. Juergen Regards, Dave On Feb 21, 2013, at 2:23 PM, Rob Weir wrote: On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 4:27 PM, Dave Fisher dave2w...@comcast.net wrote: On Feb 20, 2013, at 8:13 AM, Samer Mansour wrote: Hello AOO Dev and Marketing Community, The main subject of this e-mail is to call for an end date to proposals. In 72hrs (saturday) we will be closing branding proposals. - - - - - I am heading up the branding effort for the AOO 4.0 release and we can unanimously agree the 4.0 release will be a milestone for our community and users. For this special release the marketing team is taking on the effort to giving us a fresh look. The marketing team is starting to plot deadlines at the same time as the dev team, the marketing team can't keep proposing ideas forever, we actually need to do the work to get us there. Specially because some dev efforts require assets from our designers. What does that mean? - We're picking and choosing. Late submissions might not be considered (just the nature of just do it sorry). - Eliminating designs we don't like and smoothing and integrating ones we do like. - In a week from Saturday we will have a master proposal to present for lazy consensus. (at least that's the plan) I do not think that this can operate as lazy consensus,. it is a process that is more opinion based than most. It is possible that the Marketing team can make some discussions, but the community may have other preferences. Indeed I assume there would be many opinions. But in the discussion that had lead up to this has noted that there are well-established design and marketing best practices for logo desgin, and giving some trust to those volunteers with knowledge of these disciplines might yield a better result that throwing it out to a general vote of 400 subscribers to the dev list and their individual non-expert opinions. Now you could argue that opinions of non-experts is useful, and what the general public thinks is important.
Re: Branding Refresh For AOO 4.0 [Closing in 72hrs]
Hello, I've reached out to Nicholas Kwiatkowski of the Apache Flex project, he is on the volunteer page as Working on components, website, marketing. I've asked if he knows any volunteers who can help us in the area of website design, icons, splash screens, etc. as we'll need help implementing those. I'll begin working with Robin F., Chris R., and Michael A. this week in the mean time. Samer Mansour On Sat, Feb 23, 2013 at 12:36 PM, Samer Mansour samer...@gmail.com wrote: Hey Everyone, Let me first admit I felt Saturday (72 hrs) was short, but at the same time necessary. I expected someone would have said Wait I volunteer to make a proposal but I just don't have enough time in the next few days. On date and rush: The date that floated for design assets to be ready for consumption is April 4th, 2013 which is 40 days from this writing. We all would like to have the refresh integrated into the RCs, where applicable. What I've seen produced in the last two months has been more than the previous 10 months and is amazing work. If we pick something and just do it, I think we can make the 04/04 target. Our volunteers are very eager to start. On Voting: I asked for comments into the wiki's so that everyone can proposes ideas even if they are not artistically inclined. I'm relatively new to the community so I'm not sure what warrants a vote or how a change like in this particular situation is incorporated into the product, its not code to be checked in per say, but it is an asset. On Flex: Our community's make up is a little different. We have everyday students and diverse work industries using our product. Flex's community by nature is more exposed to designers. I would be horrified to find flex's community had anything less than an amazing site. Having said that I would totally be okay with approaching the flex community and asking humbly that we could use some help of theirs. Also I think their designer nature contributed to why they may have had 50 proposals :D Moving Forward: I know this will be a very opinionated activity. I invite anyone who is passionate about this activity to join the marketing team to help us do the work and complete the assets. I need a shed and they give me a purple one, I'm going to have to trust them. It is easier for me to take the opinion of someone if they did the work. Integration of the team: I've already seen activity that leads me to believe I'm taking the right path. Robin proposed a full design and someone suggested the script font was a little off. Robin agreed, the output now is something +2 agree with. If more input is given, my good faith says it will converge to a high percentage of the community's desires, but not necessarily everyone's. Samer Mansour On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 2:46 AM, Jürgen Schmidt jogischm...@gmail.comwrote: On 2/22/13 1:21 AM, Dave Fisher wrote: On Feb 21, 2013, at 4:02 PM, Dave Fisher wrote: (Note this discussion is going to be difficult because we are posting between two lists.) Adding back marketing, who are doing wonderful work. Look at http://flex.apache.org/. It might be an inspiration for someone. I saw the flex one before and was very impressed by the new logo. Maybe you can reach out there if some of the designers are interested to help us as well. A logo (and more design elements) for a 40 million downloaded app should be motivating. Juergen Regards, Dave On Feb 21, 2013, at 2:23 PM, Rob Weir wrote: On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 4:27 PM, Dave Fisher dave2w...@comcast.net wrote: On Feb 20, 2013, at 8:13 AM, Samer Mansour wrote: Hello AOO Dev and Marketing Community, The main subject of this e-mail is to call for an end date to proposals. In 72hrs (saturday) we will be closing branding proposals. - - - - - I am heading up the branding effort for the AOO 4.0 release and we can unanimously agree the 4.0 release will be a milestone for our community and users. For this special release the marketing team is taking on the effort to giving us a fresh look. The marketing team is starting to plot deadlines at the same time as the dev team, the marketing team can't keep proposing ideas forever, we actually need to do the work to get us there. Specially because some dev efforts require assets from our designers. What does that mean? - We're picking and choosing. Late submissions might not be considered (just the nature of just do it sorry). - Eliminating designs we don't like and smoothing and integrating ones we do like. - In a week from Saturday we will have a master proposal to present for lazy consensus. (at least that's the plan) I do not think that this can operate as lazy consensus,. it is a process that is more opinion based than most. It is possible that the Marketing team can make some discussions, but the community may have other preferences. Indeed I assume
RE: Branding Refresh For AOO 4.0 [Closing in 72hrs]
At the ASF, 72 hours is a *minimum* time. And it is polite to step past known holidays and weekends as well. There needs to be some clarification here on how Apache projects do not have designated teams and voting is something that happens after extensive discussion (both on the dev list). The goal is consensus and unanimous consent. Voting, when necessary, is accomplished by a particular ballot procedure, and there has been no such thing here. I am offering a procedural objection. Your concerns about timing and other matters are fine, but the process appears to be out of line. - Dennis PS: Personally, it strikes me as odd to make schedule-driven arguments on an Apache project. Rush and similar urgency seem out of character. It is not the calendar that it inflexible, it is resources and their self-selected contributions. -Original Message- From: Samer Mansour [mailto:samer...@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 09:36 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org; market...@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: Branding Refresh For AOO 4.0 [Closing in 72hrs] Hey Everyone, Let me first admit I felt Saturday (72 hrs) was short, but at the same time necessary. I expected someone would have said Wait I volunteer to make a proposal but I just don't have enough time in the next few days. On date and rush: The date that floated for design assets to be ready for consumption is April 4th, 2013 which is 40 days from this writing. We all would like to have the refresh integrated into the RCs, where applicable. What I've seen produced in the last two months has been more than the previous 10 months and is amazing work. If we pick something and just do it, I think we can make the 04/04 target. Our volunteers are very eager to start. On Voting: I asked for comments into the wiki's so that everyone can proposes ideas even if they are not artistically inclined. I'm relatively new to the community so I'm not sure what warrants a vote or how a change like in this particular situation is incorporated into the product, its not code to be checked in per say, but it is an asset. On Flex: Our community's make up is a little different. We have everyday students and diverse work industries using our product. Flex's community by nature is more exposed to designers. I would be horrified to find flex's community had anything less than an amazing site. Having said that I would totally be okay with approaching the flex community and asking humbly that we could use some help of theirs. Also I think their designer nature contributed to why they may have had 50 proposals :D Moving Forward: I know this will be a very opinionated activity. I invite anyone who is passionate about this activity to join the marketing team to help us do the work and complete the assets. I need a shed and they give me a purple one, I'm going to have to trust them. It is easier for me to take the opinion of someone if they did the work. Integration of the team: I've already seen activity that leads me to believe I'm taking the right path. Robin proposed a full design and someone suggested the script font was a little off. Robin agreed, the output now is something +2 agree with. If more input is given, my good faith says it will converge to a high percentage of the community's desires, but not necessarily everyone's. Samer Mansour On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 2:46 AM, Jürgen Schmidt jogischm...@gmail.comwrote: On 2/22/13 1:21 AM, Dave Fisher wrote: On Feb 21, 2013, at 4:02 PM, Dave Fisher wrote: (Note this discussion is going to be difficult because we are posting between two lists.) Adding back marketing, who are doing wonderful work. Look at http://flex.apache.org/. It might be an inspiration for someone. I saw the flex one before and was very impressed by the new logo. Maybe you can reach out there if some of the designers are interested to help us as well. A logo (and more design elements) for a 40 million downloaded app should be motivating. Juergen Regards, Dave On Feb 21, 2013, at 2:23 PM, Rob Weir wrote: On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 4:27 PM, Dave Fisher dave2w...@comcast.net wrote: On Feb 20, 2013, at 8:13 AM, Samer Mansour wrote: Hello AOO Dev and Marketing Community, The main subject of this e-mail is to call for an end date to proposals. In 72hrs (saturday) we will be closing branding proposals. - - - - - I am heading up the branding effort for the AOO 4.0 release and we can unanimously agree the 4.0 release will be a milestone for our community and users. For this special release the marketing team is taking on the effort to giving us a fresh look. The marketing team is starting to plot deadlines at the same time as the dev team, the marketing team can't keep proposing ideas forever, we actually need to do the work to get us there. Specially because some dev efforts require assets from our designers. What does that mean? - We're
Re: Branding Refresh For AOO 4.0 [Closing in 72hrs]
On Feb 20, 2013, at 8:13 AM, Samer Mansour wrote: Hello AOO Dev and Marketing Community, The main subject of this e-mail is to call for an end date to proposals. In 72hrs (saturday) we will be closing branding proposals. - - - - - I am heading up the branding effort for the AOO 4.0 release and we can unanimously agree the 4.0 release will be a milestone for our community and users. For this special release the marketing team is taking on the effort to giving us a fresh look. The marketing team is starting to plot deadlines at the same time as the dev team, the marketing team can't keep proposing ideas forever, we actually need to do the work to get us there. Specially because some dev efforts require assets from our designers. What does that mean? - We're picking and choosing. Late submissions might not be considered (just the nature of just do it sorry). - Eliminating designs we don't like and smoothing and integrating ones we do like. - In a week from Saturday we will have a master proposal to present for lazy consensus. (at least that's the plan) I do not think that this can operate as lazy consensus,. it is a process that is more opinion based than most. It is possible that the Marketing team can make some discussions, but the community may have other preferences. I don't think that we need to be afraid of having a VOTE. Rules can be generated and this dev list can tolerate the extra traffic. I participated in a two round vote for Apache Flex. There were over 50 entries. Each ballot had 5 votes which allowed people with strong opinions to vote for one logo and others who liked many designs could split their vote. (Note this discussion is going to be difficult because we are posting between two lists.) How can you help? - - - - - - I have design skills! (or I think!) - Check out some guidelines and placements of the branding, see children of this cwiki page: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+Refresh+Project - Go to our wiki and sketch out some ideas here: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/AOO+4.x+-+Logo+Explorations - They don't have to be complete or polished ideas, ie. you only have ideas for icons and only have 2 hours to create the proposal, capture the main idea but don't worry about detail. - Join the marketing mailing list to help us with implementing the final design: https://blogs.apache.org/OOo/entry/call_for_marketing_volunteers - I don't have design skills?! - Go to our wiki and help us by commenting on designs, DO NOT reply with comments about design in these mailing lists. - There is about 10 pages and they all could use some feedback in the comments: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+Refresh+Project - I will call for any final discussion on Saturday once the deadline has passed. I have added comments including the volunteer and organization hurdles to make certain branding changes. Regards, Dave If you have any concerns about this process reply here. Do not reply to this e-mail to talk about designs! Go to the wiki and add design comments there!
Re: Branding Refresh For AOO 4.0 [Closing in 72hrs]
On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 4:27 PM, Dave Fisher dave2w...@comcast.net wrote: On Feb 20, 2013, at 8:13 AM, Samer Mansour wrote: Hello AOO Dev and Marketing Community, The main subject of this e-mail is to call for an end date to proposals. In 72hrs (saturday) we will be closing branding proposals. - - - - - I am heading up the branding effort for the AOO 4.0 release and we can unanimously agree the 4.0 release will be a milestone for our community and users. For this special release the marketing team is taking on the effort to giving us a fresh look. The marketing team is starting to plot deadlines at the same time as the dev team, the marketing team can't keep proposing ideas forever, we actually need to do the work to get us there. Specially because some dev efforts require assets from our designers. What does that mean? - We're picking and choosing. Late submissions might not be considered (just the nature of just do it sorry). - Eliminating designs we don't like and smoothing and integrating ones we do like. - In a week from Saturday we will have a master proposal to present for lazy consensus. (at least that's the plan) I do not think that this can operate as lazy consensus,. it is a process that is more opinion based than most. It is possible that the Marketing team can make some discussions, but the community may have other preferences. Indeed I assume there would be many opinions. But in the discussion that had lead up to this has noted that there are well-established design and marketing best practices for logo desgin, and giving some trust to those volunteers with knowledge of these disciplines might yield a better result that throwing it out to a general vote of 400 subscribers to the dev list and their individual non-expert opinions. Now you could argue that opinions of non-experts is useful, and what the general public thinks is important. True, but that is better done with an expertly-designed survey of the general public, not by bikeshedding on the dev list. We've kicked the can down the road with regards to a grand contest for almost a year now. We're no closer to than we were when we started. Do we want to ship 4.0 with a half-assed logo attempt done at the last minute? Or do we want to let the marketing experts push this forward. And remember, if someone really doesn't like the output of this process, they can object and offer an alternative at any time. But I don't think we can force a volunteer, or group of volunteers, to pursue a contest versus an approach based on best practices and working with a small set of already-active volunteers. Regards, -Rob I don't think that we need to be afraid of having a VOTE. Rules can be generated and this dev list can tolerate the extra traffic. I participated in a two round vote for Apache Flex. There were over 50 entries. Each ballot had 5 votes which allowed people with strong opinions to vote for one logo and others who liked many designs could split their vote. (Note this discussion is going to be difficult because we are posting between two lists.) How can you help? - - - - - - I have design skills! (or I think!) - Check out some guidelines and placements of the branding, see children of this cwiki page: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+Refresh+Project - Go to our wiki and sketch out some ideas here: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/AOO+4.x+-+Logo+Explorations - They don't have to be complete or polished ideas, ie. you only have ideas for icons and only have 2 hours to create the proposal, capture the main idea but don't worry about detail. - Join the marketing mailing list to help us with implementing the final design: https://blogs.apache.org/OOo/entry/call_for_marketing_volunteers - I don't have design skills?! - Go to our wiki and help us by commenting on designs, DO NOT reply with comments about design in these mailing lists. - There is about 10 pages and they all could use some feedback in the comments: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+Refresh+Project - I will call for any final discussion on Saturday once the deadline has passed. I have added comments including the volunteer and organization hurdles to make certain branding changes. Regards, Dave If you have any concerns about this process reply here. Do not reply to this e-mail to talk about designs! Go to the wiki and add design comments there!
Re: Branding Refresh For AOO 4.0 [Closing in 72hrs]
(Note this discussion is going to be difficult because we are posting between two lists.) Adding back marketing, who are doing wonderful work. On Feb 21, 2013, at 2:23 PM, Rob Weir wrote: On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 4:27 PM, Dave Fisher dave2w...@comcast.net wrote: On Feb 20, 2013, at 8:13 AM, Samer Mansour wrote: Hello AOO Dev and Marketing Community, The main subject of this e-mail is to call for an end date to proposals. In 72hrs (saturday) we will be closing branding proposals. - - - - - I am heading up the branding effort for the AOO 4.0 release and we can unanimously agree the 4.0 release will be a milestone for our community and users. For this special release the marketing team is taking on the effort to giving us a fresh look. The marketing team is starting to plot deadlines at the same time as the dev team, the marketing team can't keep proposing ideas forever, we actually need to do the work to get us there. Specially because some dev efforts require assets from our designers. What does that mean? - We're picking and choosing. Late submissions might not be considered (just the nature of just do it sorry). - Eliminating designs we don't like and smoothing and integrating ones we do like. - In a week from Saturday we will have a master proposal to present for lazy consensus. (at least that's the plan) I do not think that this can operate as lazy consensus,. it is a process that is more opinion based than most. It is possible that the Marketing team can make some discussions, but the community may have other preferences. Indeed I assume there would be many opinions. But in the discussion that had lead up to this has noted that there are well-established design and marketing best practices for logo desgin, and giving some trust to those volunteers with knowledge of these disciplines might yield a better result that throwing it out to a general vote of 400 subscribers to the dev list and their individual non-expert opinions. Now you could argue that opinions of non-experts is useful, and what the general public thinks is important. True, but that is better done with an expertly-designed survey of the general public, not by bikeshedding on the dev list. The opinions of non-experts are useful and that is a fact. This is not general public opinion it is the AOO community. An expertly designed survey is often called a BALLOT. Please design one to either validate a single decision, or to choose between a few of the designs so that the result is not a fait accompli. Validation is good. We've kicked the can down the road with regards to a grand contest for almost a year now. We're no closer to than we were when we started. Do we want to ship 4.0 with a half-assed logo attempt done at the last minute? Or do we want to let the marketing experts push this forward. Straw man. One year ago we had maybe 2 or 3 logo proposals. Now there are several logos and designs proposed and only a few are IMO half-assed. Many IMO are excellent! And remember, if someone really doesn't like the output of this process, they can object and offer an alternative at any time. But I don't think we can force a volunteer, or group of volunteers, to pursue a contest versus an approach based on best practices and working with a small set of already-active volunteers. Three points. (1) There is a public solicitation for proposals. These submissions must be fairly treated. (2) No force is involved. Just a suggestion and a reminder that LAZY CONSENSUS should not be assumed. If necessary we can design a ballot on the dev list. (3) The only legitimate VETO here is if the Logo and Design selected infringed or nearly infringed on another's mark (like one subtly does), or if it were somehow foul and offensive in some culture. In that case the technical alternative is to choose one of the non-infringing or insulting logos or designs. A VETO is a let's discuss this it must not be a your work is awful take it back. This argues that the sooner the community agrees the better. The Apache Way is about the flattest hierarchy possible. Decisions are to made (validated) on the dev list. Thanks and Regards, Dave Regards, -Rob I don't think that we need to be afraid of having a VOTE. Rules can be generated and this dev list can tolerate the extra traffic. I participated in a two round vote for Apache Flex. There were over 50 entries. Each ballot had 5 votes which allowed people with strong opinions to vote for one logo and others who liked many designs could split their vote. (Note this discussion is going to be difficult because we are posting between two lists.) How can you help? - - - - - - I have design skills! (or I think!) - Check out some guidelines and placements of the branding, see children of this cwiki page: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+Refresh+Project
Re: Branding Refresh For AOO 4.0 [Closing in 72hrs]
On Feb 21, 2013, at 4:02 PM, Dave Fisher wrote: (Note this discussion is going to be difficult because we are posting between two lists.) Adding back marketing, who are doing wonderful work. Look at http://flex.apache.org/. It might be an inspiration for someone. Regards, Dave On Feb 21, 2013, at 2:23 PM, Rob Weir wrote: On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 4:27 PM, Dave Fisher dave2w...@comcast.net wrote: On Feb 20, 2013, at 8:13 AM, Samer Mansour wrote: Hello AOO Dev and Marketing Community, The main subject of this e-mail is to call for an end date to proposals. In 72hrs (saturday) we will be closing branding proposals. - - - - - I am heading up the branding effort for the AOO 4.0 release and we can unanimously agree the 4.0 release will be a milestone for our community and users. For this special release the marketing team is taking on the effort to giving us a fresh look. The marketing team is starting to plot deadlines at the same time as the dev team, the marketing team can't keep proposing ideas forever, we actually need to do the work to get us there. Specially because some dev efforts require assets from our designers. What does that mean? - We're picking and choosing. Late submissions might not be considered (just the nature of just do it sorry). - Eliminating designs we don't like and smoothing and integrating ones we do like. - In a week from Saturday we will have a master proposal to present for lazy consensus. (at least that's the plan) I do not think that this can operate as lazy consensus,. it is a process that is more opinion based than most. It is possible that the Marketing team can make some discussions, but the community may have other preferences. Indeed I assume there would be many opinions. But in the discussion that had lead up to this has noted that there are well-established design and marketing best practices for logo desgin, and giving some trust to those volunteers with knowledge of these disciplines might yield a better result that throwing it out to a general vote of 400 subscribers to the dev list and their individual non-expert opinions. Now you could argue that opinions of non-experts is useful, and what the general public thinks is important. True, but that is better done with an expertly-designed survey of the general public, not by bikeshedding on the dev list. The opinions of non-experts are useful and that is a fact. This is not general public opinion it is the AOO community. An expertly designed survey is often called a BALLOT. Please design one to either validate a single decision, or to choose between a few of the designs so that the result is not a fait accompli. Validation is good. We've kicked the can down the road with regards to a grand contest for almost a year now. We're no closer to than we were when we started. Do we want to ship 4.0 with a half-assed logo attempt done at the last minute? Or do we want to let the marketing experts push this forward. Straw man. One year ago we had maybe 2 or 3 logo proposals. Now there are several logos and designs proposed and only a few are IMO half-assed. Many IMO are excellent! And remember, if someone really doesn't like the output of this process, they can object and offer an alternative at any time. But I don't think we can force a volunteer, or group of volunteers, to pursue a contest versus an approach based on best practices and working with a small set of already-active volunteers. Three points. (1) There is a public solicitation for proposals. These submissions must be fairly treated. (2) No force is involved. Just a suggestion and a reminder that LAZY CONSENSUS should not be assumed. If necessary we can design a ballot on the dev list. (3) The only legitimate VETO here is if the Logo and Design selected infringed or nearly infringed on another's mark (like one subtly does), or if it were somehow foul and offensive in some culture. In that case the technical alternative is to choose one of the non-infringing or insulting logos or designs. A VETO is a let's discuss this it must not be a your work is awful take it back. This argues that the sooner the community agrees the better. The Apache Way is about the flattest hierarchy possible. Decisions are to made (validated) on the dev list. Thanks and Regards, Dave Regards, -Rob I don't think that we need to be afraid of having a VOTE. Rules can be generated and this dev list can tolerate the extra traffic. I participated in a two round vote for Apache Flex. There were over 50 entries. Each ballot had 5 votes which allowed people with strong opinions to vote for one logo and others who liked many designs could split their vote. (Note this discussion is going to be difficult because we are posting between two lists.) How can you help? - - - - - - I have design skills! (or I think!) -
