Re: [OSM-dev] [Imports] OSM-3D tagging info
On Dec 16, 2011, at 4:48 AM, Jaime Crespo wrote: El 16/12/2011 10:22, Paul Norman penor...@mac.com escribió: 3d tagging is not widely supported. I think it’d be of questionable value. I think that importing the number of floors and/or the height of the building is something really useful. Look at those pretty buildings in 3d renderings. Google folks love them. :-) no importing has no value. Yes rendering has HUGE value!! Please merge this kind of data in a rendering DB not the main DB. ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] [Imports] OSM-3D tagging info
Please read again what I wrote the answer is there!! Can I do more can shout in CAPS to make it clear? long answer in many posts from Frederick and others about imports On Dec 16, 2011, at 12:07 PM, Komяpa wrote: Hi! Yes rendering has HUGE value!! Please merge this kind of data in a rendering DB not the main DB. So, renderings like this must not be in OSM? Why? :3 http://latlon.org/buildings?zoom=16lat=53.90347lon=27.44665layers=BT -- Darafei Komяpa Praliaskouski OSM BY Team - http://openstreetmap.by/ xmpp:m...@komzpa.net mailto:m...@komzpa.net ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Data source for robot
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 6:46 AM, Peter Budny pet...@gatech.edu wrote: Road routes are useful because it avoids the dreaded semicolon (as someone else called it). agreed this is useful. but it's not the whole story For instance: I would love to see the correct symbol for roads on the map--an Interstate shield, a US Highway shield, or a State Road shield with the shape of the state. In a road relation, a URL to this is stored in the symbol=* key. The renderer would just find all the road relations a way is part of, grab their symbols, and place them on the map. many wanted to see it but no one to date has implemented a usable and scalable version of it. If someone does this adding the relations makes sense. until then it's not of much use. Currently no renderer supports this. They draw ovals and put the ref=* inside, which would be okay... except that they don't support semicolons. What they /should/ do is split the tag by semicolons, and place all the resulting tags on the road individually. This is not trivial if there are multiple routes on the same way. I have done it once for Garmin maps but the need to prioritize and add the shields based on space on a map is really not that easy. no matter if you do this with ref on the way or with relations this is tricky. even more so with relations because they are not sorted and a renderer needs to build a sorted db first. splitting ref tags with semicolons is much simpler. What they /actually/ do is try to place a giant ref=* tag inside the oval, which usually means giving up when you have ref=US 29; US 78; US 278; GA 8 (and that's assuming you don't use the long US:US and US:GA format). Relations are the cleaner solution here. You /could/ accomplish the same thing with regular tags, but who wants to see symbol=*, symbol_1=*, symbol_2=*, etc. on every way in a city? (Or worse, a giant symbol=* tag with semicolon-separated URLs?) this is all theory until someone builds a renderer. then it's time to discuss how this can be supported with tags in osm. -- Peter Budny \ Georgia Tech \ CS PhD student \ ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Data source for robot
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 7:41 AM, Peter Budny pet...@gatech.edu wrote: Andy Allan gravityst...@gmail.com writes: Also, I'd advise you to leave TIGER data to one side. A very high percentage of major roads in OSM in the US have been edited, many multiple times What about the minor roads? State Roads are exactly the ones that aren't major, and there are a lot of them. Most states have at least several hundred, and a few like Kentucky and Texas have more than 6000. That's a /minimum/ estimate of 20,000 roads, most of which haven't been touched because they're in rural areas. if they haven't been touched what is the advantage to touch them by a bot or other automatic edits? obviously they are either good enough in there current status or no one cares about it. there is 0 benefit in automatic edits. taking original tiger 2010 data will be the much better choice for any application -- Peter Budny \ Georgia Tech \ CS PhD student \ ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Data source for robot
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 10:18 AM, Peter Budny pet...@gatech.edu wrote: Well, I'm already committed to the project. If the general tone is that automated edits are not welcome, I'll happily do edits on a local database and throw them away later, leaving OSM in exactly the same incomplete state it's in now. OSM will never complete. I'd much rather my work be put to some use. It would be nice if you and others could describe what kind of automated edits /would/ be welcome. I think the idea that /no/ robot could possibly improve OSM data correctly is absurd. yes it is absurd but the past shows that they many did more harm than good. as you can see on the reaction in this thread it's a mine field. If you'd like me to generate but not apply changesets, and hold them until people approve that the robot is not causing harm, I can do that. If you'd like me to choose a different task for the robot to perform, I can do that. If you'd like me to buzz off and continue to let people waste their time doing edits that could be performed much faster by a robot... well, I guess I'd have to live with that, if it's really what you want. yes this is the perfect approach. the mappers who are interested in this will work on this. Especially in US there is no lack of people willing to do imports or automatic edits but a lack of mappers who go out and do verification on the ground. OSM is much more about the community than the perfection and completion of one or the other feature. -- Peter Budny \ Georgia Tech \ CS PhD student \ ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Data source for robot
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 10:53 AM, Jan Sandbrink fischikow...@web.de wrote: obviously they are either good enough in there current status or no one cares about it. there is 0 benefit in automatic edits. Are you serious? Yes What about the guy that wants to use any kind of routing software to go from A to B? if streets are not connected in a place where nobody cares this means he will get redirected over some areas where people care. would you trust a routing based on automatic edits? Hell, this whole discussion looks like a witch-hunt. Because all robot-edits are the devil. And the general tone here is very discouraging for everyone that might think about investing time into OSM. not all are but most have been. It's so easy to write a robot. any script kid can do this. Any GIS professional can but who is willing to do on the ground survey? Doing a bot right without destruction of other data is very difficult. I have done imports semi automatic edits ... but the real challenge was to fix the mess left behind manually by broken uploads. corner cases not considered initially and many more. So the message is don't do it unless you are absolutely committed and willing to fix all problems it causes. Too many did not in the past and now a lot of mappers are angry at bot writers for a good reason. ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] srtm2osm stops after hours with file not found
never worked for me on linux. I recommend to use gdal_translate, gdal_contour, shp2osm together with wget for download the whole chain can be automated easily On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 2:13 AM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/9/24 M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: Has someone an idea what happened? I call srtm2osm like this: mono Srtm2Osm/Srtm2Osm.exe -bounds1 48 6 36 18 -cat 250 50 -step 10 -large nobody experiencing similar problems? cheers, Martin ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [josm-dev] Change to changeset comment handling, RfD
On 31 Jul 2010, at 12:23 , Frederik Ramm wrote: I have now changed this in the following way: * The last recently used changeset description is only loaded as default if it was used less than 4 hours ago. Otherwise there is no default. Why 4h and not 1h or 5min? this doesn't help much to avoid mistakes. You should at least provide it as a variable in the advanced options. personally I'd set it very low to avoid mistakes which are worse than bad or empty comments ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Bad Changeset 4469513
starting revert, but can take some time. please try to avoid such huge changesets, easier to handle smaller ones. On 19 Apr 2010, at 15:38 , Kate Chapman wrote: Hey All, Could someone revert my changeset 4469513, not sure what happened. JOSM asked me to resolve a couple conflicts and I ended up with a ton of duplicate nodes. Thanks, Kate user:wonderchook ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [josm-dev] JOSM, the relation killer
had the same problems but seen it before upload. at that time conflict resolution had other bugs too and I didn't spend time to analyze and just went back and did my edits again. If I remember correct it was that by default all members are removed in the conflict dialog and you have to explicitly choose yours or the one from the server and put it back. Just clicking on ok and all members are dropped. On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 12:52 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, every now and then we have isolated reports about all members of a relation having accidentally been removed with JOSM. Just recently, with JOSM 3097, someone made this changeset http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/4238359 in which this 2700 member relation http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/18162 (which has meanwhile been deleted and re-created as #544296) was robbed of all its members; only the empty, tagged relation remained. The user says that he had not changed the relation except removing a node from a way that was part of the relation; then, on upload, that edit produced a conflict which he resolved by saying that the deletion of the node can be ignored. I don't have details but I have a feeling that some sort of conflict resolution was involved in most of these help, JOSM has removed all members from the relation problem. I'll play around a bit on then dev API and see if I can reproduce the problem. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [OSM-dev] [OSM-newbies] Revert Request
starting to revert now, this will take some time for these huge changesets. On 3 Apr 2010, at 19:41 , Richard Weait wrote: On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 10:06 PM, Kenneth Pardue kenn...@pardue.me wrote: Looks like I may have run into a serious error trying to figure out the NHD data conversion. In trying to merge and upload the data for an entire subbasin in order to keep duplicates down, I instead ran into an error in my upload at some point during the process, leaving me with nearly 350,000 orphaned nodes. o.O Lesson learned, it seems like a much better idea to import the files (limited to 30,000 nodes each) individually, and deal with duplicates as they happen. Instead of pushing my luck and working with the revert scripts, how can I ask that a system admin revert the following changesets: 4309301, 4309425, 4309533, 4309602, 4309662, 4309733, 4309777, 4309834. My mistake certainly wasn't a malicious one, I have the genuine intent to improve the quality of the maps throughout my state. Best, Kenneth Thanks for bringing this to our attention Kenneth. Imports are tricky and we can all make mistakes. I've forwarded your revert request to dev. ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
[OSM-dev] Vandalism how to proceed?
any ideas on how to deal with vandalism of a technically skilled user? has the block user function ever be used? how would one request it. I know I can't just call for it without evidence but can't spend much time right now for documentation and explanation. conformation from other users … so some info when the admins are willing to consider a block will be appreciated. If anyone want't to check it started with this changeset of mass upgrades from residential to tertiary of approx 3500 roads http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/3515112 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/3518792 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/3519089 I have started to write some tools to analyze the edits and come up with a more intelligent revert of defined tags across full history only but due to time constraints this isn't finished yet. also not sure how this will help as this user can simply use revert.pl again to revert all my changes blindly as he has done multiple times. multiple users have contacted this users but refuses to accept any other opinion, advice, discussion … one example below. discuss ideas on the lists first If I wished to discuss an idea, I might do so. However, I'm unlikely to do so on mailing lists, an outdated technology ill-suited to the task at hand. Regardless, I have yet to be convinced that there's anything to discuss, let alone that there's a need to have a discussion first, as if I need permission. but you think after a month you know all better? Of course I think I know better. I don't purport to know all better, so I do research areas of lighter knowledge. ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Vandalism how to proceed?
On 23 Mar 2010, at 1:27 , Frederik Ramm wrote: Apo, Apollinaris Schoell wrote: any ideas on how to deal with vandalism of a technically skilled user? What you have given us here is not really an example of vandalism. You seem to have someone who thinks that certain roads should rather be tertiary, and who writes arrogant e-mails. (But anyone can be made to write arrogant e-mails given the right input so this doesn't say much.) don't have the time to explain all the reasons and analysis done so far if there is no chance that this will help in any way to stop this. Can't spend 24/7 on osm. I can as well give up on this area evan that I l live there Don't need a map or navigation here since I know how to come around and spend my time on more useful things in unmapped areas. And while other vandals rarely bother to put proper changeset comments (or they write piss off and things like that), this guy explains what he is doing and why. He might still be wrong but at least he talks about it: and this makes it so difficult to revert. I do not want to blindly revert things if some edits have been useful. http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/mk408/edits Unless this guy is really good at cloaking his vandalism, he looks like somebody who does a lot of work and who truly believes that he makes OSM better. It should be possible to engage him in a discussion. I do not know anything about the exchanges between him and the multiple users who contacted him, but does the possibility exist that these exchanges have perhaps been initiated in a way that put him in the defensive? I don't think so. there have been friendly emails from people more patient than me. but all responses are like this I am correct You're telling us how you have spent time investigating and writing scripts and reverting his edits and all - but to be honest, from the information you have given us, it looks like more time should have been spent on the human side rather than on the technical side! haven't finished the scripts for lack of time and difficulties to really define how data should be reverted without creating more damage in case other users have worked on different aspects of the same ways. just coming up with a criteria what needs to be reverted it requires analysis of the changes and then I can as well use josm to look at a way at a time instead writing scripts and again if there is no help in sight why should I spend hours to write it all up instead trying to fix things or don't care at all. I'd say calm down, go slow, try to talk to him - if he doesn't like mailing lists then ask him if he'd prefer a meeting in person or what. It's not like 3500 roads changed from residential to tertiary need to be fixed instantly - if we decide to change them back a few months from now we can still do it. talk to someone who doesn't accept any inputs? I know of 2 others who contacted him but same response. it's already 2 months it doesn't change. Again I can't spend as much time as this guy definitely can. reverting in a few months is practically impossible if a way has been edited may times after. ways are split, ways are merged. osm is a nightmare when it comes to deep history analysis. You or others might have better tools than revert.pl and if they are not published I can fully understand. But if they exist than it will be useful to know what evidence is required to document bad edits that anyone would be willing to share it or run it themselves. Honestly if I finish any of my scripts there will be very view trusted users I am willing to share it as any revert tool is a weapon in the hands of the wrong person. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [josm-dev] Function to select or download a sequence of ways?
Marko, XAPI does exactly what you need. insert your bounding box ... wget http://www.informationfreeway.org/api/0.6/way\[natural=coastline\]\[bbox=…\] -O coastline.osm On 9 Mar 2010, at 1:59 , Marko Mäkelä wrote: Hi Karl, thank you for your helpful reply. As a further development, it could be useful to create a selective download function (follow this way until reaching a branch or a given bounding box). ... except for this function which sounds like what the waydownloader plugin provides. Great, I will have to check it. It could be a useful starting point for my work. One more question: is there a function that would extend the current selection to the given direction? For example, if I have selected a coastline, add all islands west of the selection to the selection. In that way, I would see if there are any natural=coastline objects in the mainland. Or one could use such a function when producing a map of a city or suburb and wanted to delete all objects outside the borders. (Yes, I know that Osmosis could do such things, but a GUI could be nicer.) Marko ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
[OSM-dev] ocean tiles are dry
any ideas what is going on here? http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=35.2lon=-78.9zoom=5layers=B000FTFT http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=10.28lon=-78.83zoom=6layers=B000FTF ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept
openstreetbugs is basically there but has a crappy UI. It needs to be 1) click 'feedback' or 'problem' 2) enter problem 3) click ok ok and then? who will pick it up and fix it? look at openstreetbugs and most could be closed right away. the feedback from most people is useless. a comment footways are missing in this park doesn't help much if there is no experienced mapper willing to survey. And someone able to write a detailed and useful description will be able to Potlatch* in the same time the extra step of clicking where the problem is should not happen, we should get that from the bbox or center point plus zoom. So with some changes I think we can integrate OSB and expose it front and center to help fix up the bugs. I think in an environment where every other map on the planet is trying to hide their bugs, we should expose ours and fix them quickly while showing everyone what they got wrong. As for your comments about people entering bugs and feature requests we can't handle... look. I understand it's a case of matching requests to people who can be bothered to do them. And I understand that people here today can't be bothered to fix most of the things that are wrong in OSM because we're all happy to work around them... but it's bonkers to be dismissive about 'granny' because it's all those grannies out there who are going to help us fix this map. the grannies are useless unless you sit down with them and talk to them finally and do the entry yourself. If I think about all the people who can help today in OSM, I immediately think of my brothers and sister, my parents and so on... and the only way is if we go through a big complicated loop with walking papers. A bug system like the above should be where we're headed. It will make so many more people help us, and we will be able to fix so many more things. something like walking papers is what non geeks understand because they know paper maps. or to repeat you have to sit down with them So as for features and software bugs... I think we should turn up the volume of the people who want things changed. One, we might learn something about what the users actually want (because trac is a poor, poor reflection) and two... look we should be the first people to welcome input on what people think we should do. We can't all hide in our basement and hack on Java any more. We have to help these people who are crying out for it. I'll add two more things 1) Using google insight (bing for it) and many other tools it's very very clear that the german community is by far and away huge. That's wonderful, but we don't have Germans all over Europe and the US - we need these tools out here Frederik to help us fix the map. without the German's you won't get a better map. back to footways are missing in this park it's sitting in openstreetbugs for many months (or years?) openstreetbugs or keepright are the perfect tools for German's with a large community look at US. even a 5+ mio area like the bay area has probably less than 100 active mappers. they can and will do cooler and more rewarding things first. 2) We have to be very clear that the openstreetmap.org website is _awful_. Horrendous. A total PITA. We're all here because we're persistent with it. But the wonderful thing is - we don't have to make the tools and site easy to use if we can expose a simple bug system. It's very clear that nobody can convince Richard to actually write something any muggle would really want to use, you can scream at him to finish the mythical Potlatch 2 all you want, but he doesn't give a shit and lives on a boat in bliss. That's his choice, and it's totally fine, but if we all feel that way then we have to deal with the downside that every single day we lose tens of thousands of edits because of that monopoly on bad UI. All I'm suggesting is we sidestep the problem and connect people who can report a map bug but can't be bothered to deal with pain and suffering of potlatch with the people who can deal with it, at least until Richard gets his act together and stops fixing every stupid thing in the old codebase. You have to take a step back here and realise what we're missing out on. Yours c. Steve ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept
On 21 Feb 2010, at 2:32 , Marc Schütz wrote: Am Sonntag 21 Februar 2010 09:55:40 schrieb Apollinaris Schoell: openstreetbugs is basically there but has a crappy UI. It needs to be 1) click 'feedback' or 'problem' 2) enter problem 3) click ok ok and then? who will pick it up and fix it? look at openstreetbugs and most could be closed right away. the feedback from most people is useless. a comment footways are missing in this park doesn't help much if there is no experienced mapper willing to survey. And someone able to write a detailed and useful description will be able to Potlatch* in the same time It's not that bad actually. There are basically two classes of bugs: those that can be fixed immediately (The name of this street is spelled wrong, This xxx doesn't exist anymore), and those that require someone to go out and actually look at the situation there and record GPS traces. The latter are far more frequent. Of course they will not be fixed immediately, but they serve as a great reminder of where something is still missing or needs to be fixed. When I find the time, I sometimes go on bug-closing tours. You do it because you are one of the German's mentioned in later in the original mail. and this is good for the german part of osm but it does (not yet) work in all other places IMO, OSB is already working quite well as it is. If we can integrate it more prominently into the OSM website, the better. Regards, Marc ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] [OSM-talk] OSM front page design concept
Instead of whining about the good and and and the ugly of osm.org and Potlatch and speculating some stats who is contributing to osm # Planet + daily diff from 2010-02-20 total users, with 0 objects in a planet file: 66949 total users, with 10 objects in a planet file: 42450 # North America extract from Nov 2009 total users, with 0 objects: 8043 total users, with 10 objects: 4723 # Germany from Geofabrik total users, with 0 objects: 24172 total users, with 10 objects: 16421 users with less than 10 objects are probably not active anymore and their contributions have been reworked or they haven't done anything useful at all. an even stricter user count quoted from recent talk 8173 as of the beginning of the month, I think. See http://www.flickr.com/photos/itoworld/4360166105 Don't have the total number of users but remember it was 130k long time back Now my speculations. 1/3 -1/2 of users with an account are present in planet 2/3 of active users contributed more than the Potlatch live mode error in their first and last edits the stricter definition of active users reduces these numbers to 1/8 +1/3 of active users in germany Except for germany I would say Osm contributions is still a project for geeks and this will not change anytime soon. OSB or other bug entry systems for non mappers are pointless until the experienced user base is big enough to be willing to work on bugs rather their own interests. OSB is really cool idea but definitely lacks 2 features - add pictures, now all smart-phones have gps and camera. a pic will tell more than any description. this is easy for anyone to take pics of turn restrictions, speed limits, all kinds of POI. I use Josm with geotagged pics and this is better than anything else and much faster than notebooks, walking papers … - no contact info. as a mapper it's not possible to verify and ask for more details. sure anonymous bugs should be allowed but many people are willing to share their contact email and will love the idea to get points for a certain number of bugs, or a voting system ala amazon reviews might attract non mappers. ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] [OSM-talk] OSM front page design concept
On 21 Feb 2010, at 15:09 , SteveC wrote: The problem with your analysis is pretty simple - maybe those people left because the site was crap, not because they inherently don't like adding more than 10 things. Maybe if we make it better, they will add a lot more. I can't agree or disagree here. It's just numbers. I am sure other opensource projects and especially wikipedia will have similar patterns. though their numbers might be completely different. until someone contacts a statistical sample of users and ask why this is pure speculation. some interesting questions - how many users have a GIS, Software background? - which tool, osm.org, wiki, lack of documentation, lack of support, … stopped them this could be done when we move to the new license and all active users have to be contacted anyway and might shed some light on the motivation just in case you forgot. Tom said it many times. fix it, send patches. I am sure Richard will say the same for Potlatch. ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] USGS VGI Workshop: Worldwide Geographic Names
Hi Dave, I have done some imports and may be able to help. Can you describe in more detail what kind of data. POI, ways, area, … What format and license. Apollinaris On 20 Feb 2010, at 9:55 , SteveC wrote: bouncing to dev... On Feb 20, 2010, at 5:53 AM, David Gunn wrote: Hi Steve - We met briefly at the USGS VGI Workshop. I work professionally with geographic names collection and standardization. I'd like to volunteer to help add large datasets of standard geographic names to OSM. I have an OSM account, but I haven't contributed anything yet. I need to speak with someone who can answer my questions about entering large datasets. Would you please help me find someone who can answer my questions? It would help if the person were in the US, due to time zones, etc. I'd greatly appreciate any help you can offer. Kind regards, Dave Gunn Yours c. Steve ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [josm-dev] Java 1.5 versus 1.6
On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 4:55 PM, Henry Loenwind he...@loenwind.info wrote: On 13.02.2010 14:24, Dirk Stöcker wrote: I would not care about that any more. Java 1.5 support will be dropped with next release and we have 4% Java 5 users (actually I only see page impressions, not users). Suggestion for these is to update. Update like in buy a new pc? Yeah, people will just love you ;) Java 1.6 still is not available for all platforms that run 1.5. And it seems that won't change---so with going to 1.6 you'd lock out all Mac users but those with a 64-bit Intel processor. In my opinion its still too early to lock out all those 32bit Intel processor (e.g. Core Duo) users without any real reason. this is wrong all intel based macs support snow leopard which includes java 1.6 leopard 1.6 support is 64bit only if someone doesn't upgrade the OS why upgrade josm? old josm versions will still work only G* based macs have no official 1.6 support. there is also soylatte which may work. but have never tested josm only osmosis, or mkgmap BTW, those with a 64bit Mac and OSX 10.5 will need some advice on how to use Java 1.6. Point them to: http://superuser.com/questions/100078/java-1-6-on-mac-os-x-10-5 cu Henry ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [osmosis-dev] [RFE] Add bounding shape to OSM dumps
osmosis supports 2 options to keep ways and relations intact. but geofabrik extracts don't use it as far as I know. completeWays completeRelations On 20 Jan 2010, at 12:19 , WanMil wrote: Hello, I am currently active in the mkgmap project and at the moment I am developing the implementation of the multipolygon feature. I am facing problems on the tile/dump boundaries. When mkgmap (and any other software) processes an OSM dump it has no hard information which shape was used to extract this dump. It could be a simple bounding box but it could also be a complex shape (e.g. a country boundary). We can guess only. This makes it nearly impossible to fill incomplete polygons reasonable. In the real world it makes it impossible to draw the austrian/german/swiss part of the Bodensee using the austrian/german/swiss dump. A lot of problems related to flooding on coastlines are also a reson for this. So what do you think? I think it should not be a big problem for you to add such an information because you already have the shape to extract the data. What about the OSM format? Is there a DTD for the OSM format which must be extended? WanMil ___ osmosis-dev mailing list osmosis-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmosis-dev ___ osmosis-dev mailing list osmosis-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmosis-dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Planet file space requirements
On 30 Oct 2009, at 7:43 , Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, Andy Allan wrote: I'd advise against that - download the diffs, and use them to patch your locally held planet file, then do a full import. The (daily) diffs come out earlier than the planet, and save a significant amount of time (and bandwidth) over downloading the whole thing each week. for a short time there was a torrent, adding one on the main server could save most of the bandwith and improve download speed for all ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Mapnik rendering of leisure=park + landuse=* relations
On 5 Oct 2009, at 15:38 , Dan Homerick wrote: It would be very nice to be able to use landuse tags within parks, especially large ones. Trying to do so is pretty 'buggy' though. I use buggy in quotes, because it seems like the rendering order is just undefined, or at least inconsistent between zoom levels when used with landuse relations. As far as I have seen it's random. It has nothing to do with relations or plain areas. But we can't really expect the renderer to know the intend of the mapper. Ideally, leisure=park areas (which have an alpha transparency less than 1) would render on top of landuse=* areas (which mostly/all? seem to have an alpha of 1). This would allow a park to still be visible even when surrounded by areas of the same landuse, because the park would overlay the landuse and alter the coloration. As is, the render order appears to be the other way around, with landuse renderings overlaying the park and completely hiding it. this is a good idea to use some transparency setting. a landuse forest in a park and outside a park will differ slightly in color. While trying to work around this limitation, I noticed that the rendering order for relations is ... odd. Buggy. I thinks it's just undefined and whatever comes first is rendered first. We need a proposal how to change it. It's on my wish list for a long time but never found time to work on it 1) sort order for different landuse, leisure, natural tags or use explicit tagging with layer tags 2) well defined transparency values to get nice maps 3) implement change for the Mapnik/Osmarender styles First, an example: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=37.0466lon=-122.075zoom=14layers=B000FTF Both units of Henry Cowell Redwood State Park (the 'Fall Creek' unit to the NW and the main parkland to the SE) have a multipolygon relation whose outer member is the park boundary and where the relation itself is carrying a landuse tag. Some inner members carry different landuse tags. The park itself is defined by a leisure=park tag on the boundary way. Note that we want the park boundary to be separate from the landuse relation, so that 'holes' in the landuse aren't holes in the park. Also note Wilder Ranch State to the SSE, which does NOT use a landuse relation. Areas of landuse overlay the park and obscure it. in this area relations are used because areas with holes require a multipolygon relation and can't be defined as a simple polygon area. Or maybe the length of the polygon exceeds 2000 nodes. and yes the landuse(or natural) should always be independent form leisure=park. a park is nothing on ground it is a ownership and legal thing. Now zoom in and out, and notice that at some zoom levels, the landuse relation is rendered on top of the park (obscuring it), and at other zoom levels the landuse relation is rendered below the park, taking on a coloration that reveals the landuse while still indicating the area is a park. There are various parks nearby without any landuse that can help note the color differences. Zoom level doesn't seem to be the primary causation of the differences in rendering, it just looks like the different tile sizes are triggering different rendering orders, since at one zoom level both parks may get rendered differently (zoom=14 for example). maybe low zoom levels haven't been rendered at the same time. some features may show after a full reimport only. Can you send an exact link? There's also a hell of a lot of crud left around from somebody's botched import(s), but that's another story. Is this inconsistent rendering order a known issue? Is there a better way, or workaround, to tag an area with both leisure=park and landuse=*? I think we should always render a these parks with a boundary. similar to the topo24k maps. they uses a thin black boundary. Mapnik uses a thick green dashed line at the moment. As soon as we have detailed landuse areas mapped the rendering of the park itself is not easy in a way to see both. there are already many shades of green. adding more might be confusing. Cheers, - Dan ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [josm-dev] Please invest some time into documentation - especially confilict resolution
Josm Docu isn't really important. most functions are self explaining. What we really need is to understand what Josm does with the data and how this working with the API and the whole OSM database. Conflict resolution or history functionality are such topics where good docu or tutorials can help. But as said before this is NOT a task for the developers. It's not even a Josm problem. My problem in the last months was that the development was too fast to even catch up with the idea how things work. With a couple of bugs impossible. The only solution was to create trac tickets and Karl fixed them all. thanks for that. Still have some conflict problems from time to time. Not sure if this is a Josm problem or more a sync problem when server connections are interrupted and josm doesn't receive the response from the server. anyway, thanks for the great work. It's a great tool today and will be better in future. On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 9:46 AM, Dirk Stöcker openstreet...@dstoecker.dewrote: On Sun, 4 Oct 2009, Karl Guggisberg wrote: No. All my experience shows that this is untrue. People either help or they don't help. This goes along with my experience but the interesting point is how to find those who want to help. What do you have to do to attract people who would like to improve JOSMs documentation? I think today they don't even know that JOSM is looking for help. If we want documentation work to be done we should promote it. We can mention it on the JOSM home page as sub project, we can structure the work to be done, we can describe what we need, we can provide one or two good examples and tell people that we need more of the same. We can announce that we are looking for help on OSM dev, or on the german list for translation, for instance to achieve some small goal until end of october (i.e. complete documentation of the conflict resolution dialogs). When we last had that discussion we improved the JOSM webpage and the start page of JOSM to show most of the tasks to be done (the How to help section). The notes to help translating using launchpad did have some effect I think, but not very much at all. Lots of mails in the mailinglists never had an effect until now. Maybe something like a Google's summer of code would help, but I fear this is only for coding and not for all the other stuff. But that goes down to pay for it, which I always say works for unwanted tasks. I also would do JOSM documentation when I'm payed for it (but I'm not really cheap :-) As maintainer I also do some of the stuff you mention above which you don't see, but the results are usually very little. As this has been equal for all projects I participated (which are really a lot) I decided for myself that I wont spent a lot time for recruiting. When someone shows up (like you or Jiri) I try a lot to encourage these people to stay, but I don't actively search (which e.g. means I accept also patches which do not follow my quality requirements or fight for the developers in discussions even if I think myself they have been wrong :-). We develop free open source software. Development in this area has its own rules and we can only live with them. I work in commerical as well as in open source area (and also do strategic decisions in both areas) and after longer experience you learn to respect the implicit rules. If you can show me that my view is wrong I would be happy, but I fear most of the efforts in recruiting help are better spent in UI improvements. The most important factor of open source is the available time of its participants (which BTW is not so different from commercial work). Ciao -- http://www.dstoecker.eu/ (PGP key available) ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] josm 2180 seems to invent conflicts and then fail to properly resolve them?
had similar problems from time to time. but never a clear testcase to
reproduce and no trac ticket yet.
On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 11:22 AM, ael law_ence@ntlworld.com wrote:
Maybe this should be on the newbies list, but still.
Using josm latest, 2180, earlier this evening, it started reporting
conflicts which I am fairly certain were spurious.
I was uploading frequently in small changes partly because josm runs so
slowly, and partly because I have had a few crashes with recent
versions. I didn't want to spend hours on an edit only to have to do it
again :-) In the event that's exactly what happened...
OK. Now I haven't encountered conflicts before, and maybe I
misunderstand something. But I opened the conflicts window, selected the
problem, and used the resolve option. That seemed to fix the problem,
but when I then tried to upload the changes, it didn't complete, but
instead reported an error.
I haven't (yet) opened a ticket on this because I don't think that I
understand what is happening well enough to provide much useful
information.
However, I find it hard to believe that I am the only one experiencing
these problems (or perhaps I am misusing the multiple changesets
somehow), so I thought that I should ask here first.
I do have a little of the output from part of a failing session:
--
$ Revision: Path: trunk
URL: http://josm.openstreetmap.de/svn/trunk
Repository Root: http://josm.openstreetmap.de/svn
Repository UUID: 0c6e7542-c601-0410-84e7-c038aed88b3b
Revision: 2180
Node Kind: directory
Last Changed Author: stoecker
Last Changed Rev: 2180
Last Changed Date: 2009-09-21 13:11:21 +0200 (Mon, 21 Sep 2009)
loading AgPifoJ
loading DirectUpload
loading editgpx
loading measurement
loading validator
opening fc for extension null
Open file: /home/someone/mapping/22-9-2009/220909.gpx (1102912 bytes)
GET http://www.openstreetmap.org/api/capabilities... OK
Communications with http://www.openstreetmap.org/api established using
protocol version 0.6
GET
http://www.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/map?bbox=-1.544492718163326,51.81650224203192,-1.5003183705164196,51.8588818258819
returning array list with size: 733
GET
http://www.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/trackpoints?bbox=-1.5444954471170094,51.81150545766499,-1.5020482225854301,51.852228089849945page=0
GET
http://www.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/trackpoints?bbox=-1.5444954471170094,51.81150545766499,-1.5020482225854301,51.852228089849945page=1
GET
http://www.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/trackpoints?bbox=-1.5444954471170094,51.81150545766499,-1.5020482225854301,51.852228089849945page=2
GET
http://www.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/trackpoints?bbox=-1.5444954471170094,51.81150545766499,-1.5020482225854301,51.852228089849945page=3
GET
http://www.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/trackpoints?bbox=-1.5444954471170094,51.81150545766499,-1.5020482225854301,51.852228089849945page=4
GET
http://www.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/trackpoints?bbox=-1.5444954471170094,51.81150545766499,-1.5020482225854301,51.852228089849945page=5
GET
http://www.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/trackpoints?bbox=-1.5444954471170094,51.81150545766499,-1.5020482225854301,51.852228089849945page=6
GET
http://www.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/trackpoints?bbox=-1.5444954471170094,51.81150545766499,-1.5020482225854301,51.852228089849945page=7
returning array list with size: 733
returning array list with size: 733
PUT http://www.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/changeset/create... OK
POST http://www.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/changeset/2572692/upload... OK
PUT http://www.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/changeset/2572692/close... OK
returning array list with size: 738
returning array list with size: 738
returning array list with size: 740
returning array list with size: 740
PUT http://www.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/changeset/create... OK
POST http://www.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/changeset/2572860/upload... Gone
Error header: The node with the id 36480515 has already been deleted ==
PUT http://www.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/changeset/2572860/close... OK
GET http://www.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/nodes?nodes=36480515
returning array list with size: 1
returning array list with size: 1
...
-
After 3 or 4 attempts to use josm-latest, I gave up and used josm-tested
{I think the measurement plugin might be broken there: fixed later}. No
problems with that version, so it looks like 2180 is broken somehow.
I will await advice about whether to submit a ticket.
ael
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Re: [OSM-dev] Anyway to split or simplify an .osm file from the command line?
Frederik, full agreement to all this arguments. but one of the problems is none of this is documented. the import page in the wiki is old has no best practice like you recommend here. and we have no tools which makes it easier to deal with such data. If others agree the wiki should be updated. We will need also more cleanup tools if such data is already uploaded. You mentioned in the other thread that you have used Postgis to manage such a task. Can you share that tools, scripts, commands? Only a minority are Postgis experts but many are technical enough to use the tools if there is a good manual. again should be in the wiki too. I plan such an import and delayed it because didn't want to do all the manual work. If I can manage to use this I volonteer to include it in the wiki -- Apollinaris On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 7:30 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: John, John Smith wrote: The majority of Australian postcodes have been converted from shape files to osm files, however there is a couple of complex/big areas that I'm having trouble dealing with in JOSM as a result, is there a simple way to simplify these files from a command line util? Let me speak bluntly: Have you been in touch with *anyone* who knows something about OSM before you attempted this import? One of the files you are trying to import has a node with more than 40.000 ways. Even if JOSM would handle it, the API would not accept it. Even if teh API would accept it, you would basically sabotage any attempt at mapping anything touching the boundary of that post code area because they would be forced to download 4 MB of postcode area data even if they just wanted a little stretch of road that happened to cross it. Your ways are not tagged with anything. Did you plan to add the tags manually in JOSM before uploading? I have not checked this but given the ignorance that speaks from the above, I very much assume that you have not undertaken any effort to re-use nodes and ways; my guess is that where there is a boundary between two post code areas, you will import every node twice, once as part of post code area 1 and once as part of post code area 2... right? This is an awful waste of space and not how we do things in OSM. Please stop this import, take a deep breath, find out how to do it right, and then do it properly. Could the author(s) of shp2osm also please make sure that users of the tool are educated about multipolygons and the maximum sizes of ways. John, the following thread should have some information about how to properly import a mesh of boundaries (which I believe is what you are planning to do): http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/dev/2009-September/016995.html In short, you need to create multipolygon relations consisting of ways with no more thane 2,000 members each, and where you have shared boundaries these should be ONE way with ONE set of nodes, with the way referenced by the two post code area multipolygon. The thread also mentions the newly setup imports support working group which you can contact for help if you want. Please, folks, be more careful with imports. I'd rather *not* have post code data than botched imports. Well-meaning as they are, they can easily do more damage than any vandalism we have seen until now. Bye Frederik ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Excessive version count
Josm might do that if it gets lost in the version conflicts and doesn't resolve correct. there have been a couple bugs and I had created multiple versions without any change on some nodes. many bugs have been fixed since then. Ideally the api should check for changes and skip any upload if there is no change. On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 4:27 PM, Stefan de Konink ste...@konink.de wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Ian Dees schreef: Perhaps the API should ignore (i.e. not increase rev #'s) changes that don't actually change anything? Maybe even throw an error. It is clearly an error to upload something that has not been changed right? I wonder if this could be related to 'undo'. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkqxdE8ACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn3lfACfRboCTFioLSRiR+eDSXonhdhK 4icAnROkSIatbk2+ge1oQkpEdrb0Cj5O =H551 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Incomplete Mapnik rendering
anyone of the experts knows what is wrong here? tested planet but fails for any sized osm file checked out osm2psql from svn yesterday Processing: Node(0k) Way(0k) Relation(0k) Node stats: total(687), max(471987589) Way stats: total(6), max(39394137) Relation stats: total(0), max(0) osm2pgsql: Geometry.cpp:651: int geos::geom::Geometry::getClassSortIndex() const: Assertion `typeid (*this) == typeid(GeometryCollection)' failed. On Aug 22, 2009, at 10:29 AM, Richard Weait wrote: On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Corneliuscornelius@csides.info wrote: Hi, I've tried to render my own Mapnik tiles. But my tiles are looking like this: http://tiles.osmlab.org/14/8531/5447.png (E. g. there are no streets ...) Dear Cornelius, I had a similar problem recently. Updating osm2pgsql mapnik gis schema for svn.openstreetmap.org, and mapnik from svn.mapnik.org (sp?) then re-importing my bounding box fixed it. This is not the finesse way to do it. ;-) Best regards, Richard ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Incomplete Mapnik rendering
sory for the spam, my system had an old geo library On Aug 22, 2009, at 12:18 PM, Apollinaris Schoell wrote: anyone of the experts knows what is wrong here? tested planet but fails for any sized osm file checked out osm2psql from svn yesterday Processing: Node(0k) Way(0k) Relation(0k) Node stats: total(687), max(471987589) Way stats: total(6), max(39394137) Relation stats: total(0), max(0) osm2pgsql: Geometry.cpp:651: int geos::geom::Geometry::getClassSortIndex() const: Assertion `typeid (*this) == typeid(GeometryCollection)' failed. On Aug 22, 2009, at 10:29 AM, Richard Weait wrote: On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Corneliuscornelius@csides.info wrote: Hi, I've tried to render my own Mapnik tiles. But my tiles are looking like this: http://tiles.osmlab.org/14/8531/5447.png (E. g. there are no streets ...) Dear Cornelius, I had a similar problem recently. Updating osm2pgsql mapnik gis schema for svn.openstreetmap.org, and mapnik from svn.mapnik.org (sp?) then re-importing my bounding box fixed it. This is not the finesse way to do it. ;-) Best regards, Richard ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Deleting TIGER node tags
in a 12-hour editing session, a very simple analysis would suggest about a 0.5% chance of conflicts. this isn't very much, imho cheers, matt it's running only for a week and I have already the first conflict. and it's max 2h edit. session latest JOSM resolved all conflicts so no big deal. it is a real possibility ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Deleting TIGER node tags
wait a second, this will create a lot of editing conflicts when editing in Josm. Not sure how Potlatch does it in save mode. Josm still has some bugs in the conflict resolution. Can we delay until Josm is 100% master of conflict resolution. one bug was fixed today, filed a new ticket today #3141 someone with better Potlatch knowledge should comment. Can run some tests on the weekend. otherwise mappers will hate you if they loose all the hour long edits because of conflicts On Jul 31, 2009, at 6:19 AM, Andy Allan wrote: On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 11:01 AM, Frederik Rammfrede...@remote.org wrote: Each diff upload would take about 100 seconds, each changeset would take about 40 minutes, we'd be doing about 30-35 changesets per day and finish the thing after about 100 days (some time in November if we start soon). Gogogogogogogogo For It! IMHO, IANAOSMAdmin etc. Cheers, Andy ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [josm-dev] Java menu disappears
- happens only for the first download if no map layer exists - menu comes back if any window opens like save as, options, - any download into an existing layout keeps the menu open even during the download tested on snow leopard beta and there the menu disappears during download but comes back as soon the download progress window closes. On Jul 30, 2009, at 2:00 AM, Dieter Muecke wrote: HEAD version of JOSM comes along with a nasty bug I don't know how to catch. The issue is already reported in #3030. I've started debug session to see where it disappears but in debug mode everything works as expected. Next I started to comment out code to see if I can find the line where it happens. So far I found following task = Main.worker.submit(t, t); in DownLoadOsmTaks.download(). It looks to me like a specific Mac theme bug and I wonder exists a command to redraw the menu after data download? I tried updateUI() without any luck. Any hints are much appreciated, Dieter ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Creating 3-d connected network from ways + layer tag
On Jul 30, 2009, at 8:46 AM, Igor Brejc wrote: Apollinaris Schoell wrote: On 29 Jul 2009, at 22:05 , Igor Brejc wrote: Karl Newman wrote: The topology rules are simple--if the ways share a node, then they are connected and it is possible to navigate from any of the connected ways to another (subject to turn restrictions, etc.) The layer tag is primarily a hint for renderers for proper display of vertically separated features. If the data is otherwise, then it is an error and should be corrected. Then how do you handle double-decker bridges? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridge#Double-decker_bridge) 2 ways with different layer number I was asking more about the sharing/not sharing nodes stuff between those two ways can't think of a case where they could share a node. only if we start to map an elevator between the 2 ways. but then osm needs to extend to a 3d model. mapping 3d with elevation tag might be to simplistic at the end of the bridge when the 2 ways can merge into one again then topology rule applies as outlined by Karl Igor -- http://igorbrejc.net ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Deleting TIGER node tags
Hi Frederik, when a way is deleted in JOSM the nodes with tags remain in the db. this causes tons of orphans. is it possible to delete these nodes in the same cleanup. after deleting the tiger tags it's difficult to identify these useless nodes without a full history lookup. check should be - no other tags remain on node - no way or relation uses this node apo On Jul 30, 2009, at 3:01 AM, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, Frederik Ramm wrote: I just did a little test, prepared an .osc document that removed the node tags from about 1000 nodes: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/1894387 It came out at roughly 10 node changes per second. Some more tests made directly from the dev server suggest that performance is around 20 changes per second, slightly deteriorating if you upload too many changes in one diff upload (the peak performance seems to be at around 1k-2k changes per diff upload). Anything larger than 10k changes per diff upload is not feasible (you get into a territory where you have to manually increase default timeouts and all that), and also takes performance down into the 10-15 changes per second range PLUS increases the probability of having edit conflicts. If we wanted to do this cleanup through normal API requests, the best way thus seems to be dividing the data into roughly 88k batches of 2k edits each and uploading them as diff uploads; possibly grouping them in changesets of up to 25 batches each (=50k edits), which would result in roughly 3500 changesets. Each diff upload would take about 100 seconds, each changeset would take about 40 minutes, we'd be doing about 30-35 changesets per day and finish the thing after about 100 days (some time in November if we start soon). An average day in OSM currently has roughly 150k node modifications. For the 100 days of this operation, this would increase to 1.5m node modifications (factor 10). An average daily OSM diff currently has roughly 200 MB uncompressed (somedays it's 100 MB, some days it's 400 MB). For the 100 days of this operation, daily diffs would be approximately 150 MB larger, increasing the strain on downstream systems by roughly 75%. I have not done any osm2pgsql testing. If it is clever then it will detect that no geometry change has been effected by the node modification and the additional cost would mainly result from having to parse 75% more node updates. If however it automatically re-calculates the geometry of every way that contains a modified node, then it is likely that any osm2pgsql based sites running incremental updates would take anywhere between 2 and 10 times as long to process updates during the 100 days of this operation. Everything said here is of course highly speculative and based on the haphazard assumption that our systems always perform roughly as they did when I did my tests. Bye Frederik ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
[OSM-dev] Mapnik rendering?
I am impressed. Mapnik rendered tiles before osm existed :) Tile is due to be rendered. Last rendered at Sat Jan 01 00:00:00 2000 ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Creating 3-d connected network from ways + layer tag
On 29 Jul 2009, at 22:05 , Igor Brejc wrote: Karl Newman wrote: The topology rules are simple--if the ways share a node, then they are connected and it is possible to navigate from any of the connected ways to another (subject to turn restrictions, etc.) The layer tag is primarily a hint for renderers for proper display of vertically separated features. If the data is otherwise, then it is an error and should be corrected. Then how do you handle double-decker bridges? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridge#Double-decker_bridge) 2 ways with different layer number Regards, Igor -- http://igorbrejc.net ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [josm-dev] New GPX implementation
compatible. I'm not in a hurry to switch to 1.6 but we'll do it at *some* point and I am interested in finding out what that point is going to be. Mac OS Tiger, Leopard 32bit have no 1.6 ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
