Re: [DISCUSS] Removal of Marko A. Rodriguez from Apache TinkerPop
I will reach out to you off list to arrange a time. On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 2:44 PM Marko Rodriguez wrote: > Open like source. > > * Nothing racist is implied or intended by that turn of phrase (recursive > Kleene closure on that). > > Marko. > > > On Jan 10, 2022, at 9:10 AM, Stephen Mallette > wrote: > > > > Marko, would you be open to a one-on-one conversation with me over video > > chat? > > > > On Fri, Jan 7, 2022 at 11:05 AM Marko Rodriguez > > wrote: > > > >> Thanks for the update. I opened up my email this morning to ping: > >> > >>“Any updates? I can’t believe open source software has come to > >> this. I look back and think, once you took your recent corporate > position > >> and then were put on the Apache Board, it turned a once great software > >> development team, never mired in politics, into secret backdoor > discussions > >> of what I can only presume to be of the nature “What does he know? More > >> than what he mentioned? **k that guy! We’re Apache — we're not going to > be > >> held hostage by some Nazi racist!” Stephen, you would be surprised by > who > >> has connected with me after hearing of Apache’s move to remove me from > my > >> project. The people you have allied yourself with (for whatever reason) > are > >> not of the caliber of person that I know you to be. I’ve known you for > 15 > >> years now, working closely in harmony over numerous companies, and while > >> I’m aware of your life stresses and what that can do to a man, I’m > certain > >> you are not of their breed. Don’t sully your soul by remaining entangled > >> with an organization that was once the life blood of open source > software > >> and now, given all I’ve seen with my situation with them and have come > to > >> learn from other, also its death. Good luck to you, old friend — I will > >> continue to remain in my holding pattern.” > >> > >> Take care, > >> Marko. > >> > >> > >>> On Jan 7, 2022, at 4:28 AM, Stephen Mallette > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi Marko, I know this thread is a week old at this point. I just wanted > >> to > >>> let you know it's not being ignored. Thank you for your patience. > >>> > >>> On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 3:24 PM Marko Rodriguez > >> wrote: > >>> > Understood. > > Marko. > > > On Jan 5, 2022, at 12:31 PM, Stephen Mallette > wrote: > > > > Please allow some more time for a reply as I've been away for the New > Years > > Eve weekend. > > > > On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 12:50 PM Marko Rodriguez < > okramma...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > >> Hey Stephen, > >> > >> Any movement on what I presented below? Meaning, do you 1.) agree > with > >> inconsistent application of the “violated social norms” clause and > if > >> so > >> 2.) do you plan to argue my point ‘in good faith’ (meaning, the > following > >> sentiment resonates with you: "every person has skeletons in their > closet > >> so why I are we attacking Marko after contributing his PhD work to > Apache > >> and then spending over a decade developing it only to kick him off > the > >> project for telling jokes on Twitter?”). > >> > >> If you don’t agree, then please tell me so I can move forward on my > side. > >> > >> Thank you very much, > >> Marko. > >> > >> > >> > >>> On Dec 31, 2021, at 2:14 PM, Marko Rodriguez > > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> Hello everyone, > >>> > >>> As you all may know, I was recently removed from TinkerPop for the > crime > >> of “being a Nazi troll.” When arguing I’m not a Nazi, I was told I > >> “violated social norms.” Assuming I violated social norms, I > inquired > as to > >> where such social norms are specified as I never signed anything > when > >> providing TinkerPop to Apache that mentioned ’social norms'. > Moreover, > if > >> the crime of violating social norms is in fact how Apache wishes to > judge > >> people for the sake of removal by committee, then I believe this > >> statute > >> should be applied fairly and equally. Thus, please review the > >> following > >> “social norm violations” made by people in Apache and on Apache > TinkerPop. > >> Given that social norms are not specified anywhere, I offer simply > >> what > I > >> believe fall within this fuzzy category. > >>> > >>> 1. Roy Fielding stating I’m a Nazi troll. When asked for evidence > of > >> me > >> being part of the Nazi party, none was presented. As far as I know, > >> the > >> Nazi party dissolved post WW2 and seems to exist as a word use by > >> modern > >> folk to remove people they dislike from their positions. The > question: > is > >> libel a violation of social norms? > >>> > >>> 2. Sam Ruby in the past had threatened me with physical violence. > If > >> threat of violence is not breaking social norms then that seems > like a > >>
Re: [DISCUSS] Removal of Marko A. Rodriguez from Apache TinkerPop
Open like source. * Nothing racist is implied or intended by that turn of phrase (recursive Kleene closure on that). Marko. > On Jan 10, 2022, at 9:10 AM, Stephen Mallette wrote: > > Marko, would you be open to a one-on-one conversation with me over video > chat? > > On Fri, Jan 7, 2022 at 11:05 AM Marko Rodriguez > wrote: > >> Thanks for the update. I opened up my email this morning to ping: >> >>“Any updates? I can’t believe open source software has come to >> this. I look back and think, once you took your recent corporate position >> and then were put on the Apache Board, it turned a once great software >> development team, never mired in politics, into secret backdoor discussions >> of what I can only presume to be of the nature “What does he know? More >> than what he mentioned? **k that guy! We’re Apache — we're not going to be >> held hostage by some Nazi racist!” Stephen, you would be surprised by who >> has connected with me after hearing of Apache’s move to remove me from my >> project. The people you have allied yourself with (for whatever reason) are >> not of the caliber of person that I know you to be. I’ve known you for 15 >> years now, working closely in harmony over numerous companies, and while >> I’m aware of your life stresses and what that can do to a man, I’m certain >> you are not of their breed. Don’t sully your soul by remaining entangled >> with an organization that was once the life blood of open source software >> and now, given all I’ve seen with my situation with them and have come to >> learn from other, also its death. Good luck to you, old friend — I will >> continue to remain in my holding pattern.” >> >> Take care, >> Marko. >> >> >>> On Jan 7, 2022, at 4:28 AM, Stephen Mallette >> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Marko, I know this thread is a week old at this point. I just wanted >> to >>> let you know it's not being ignored. Thank you for your patience. >>> >>> On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 3:24 PM Marko Rodriguez >> wrote: >>> Understood. Marko. > On Jan 5, 2022, at 12:31 PM, Stephen Mallette wrote: > > Please allow some more time for a reply as I've been away for the New Years > Eve weekend. > > On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 12:50 PM Marko Rodriguez > wrote: > >> Hey Stephen, >> >> Any movement on what I presented below? Meaning, do you 1.) agree with >> inconsistent application of the “violated social norms” clause and if >> so >> 2.) do you plan to argue my point ‘in good faith’ (meaning, the following >> sentiment resonates with you: "every person has skeletons in their closet >> so why I are we attacking Marko after contributing his PhD work to Apache >> and then spending over a decade developing it only to kick him off the >> project for telling jokes on Twitter?”). >> >> If you don’t agree, then please tell me so I can move forward on my side. >> >> Thank you very much, >> Marko. >> >> >> >>> On Dec 31, 2021, at 2:14 PM, Marko Rodriguez >> wrote: >>> >>> Hello everyone, >>> >>> As you all may know, I was recently removed from TinkerPop for the crime >> of “being a Nazi troll.” When arguing I’m not a Nazi, I was told I >> “violated social norms.” Assuming I violated social norms, I inquired as to >> where such social norms are specified as I never signed anything when >> providing TinkerPop to Apache that mentioned ’social norms'. Moreover, if >> the crime of violating social norms is in fact how Apache wishes to judge >> people for the sake of removal by committee, then I believe this >> statute >> should be applied fairly and equally. Thus, please review the >> following >> “social norm violations” made by people in Apache and on Apache TinkerPop. >> Given that social norms are not specified anywhere, I offer simply >> what I >> believe fall within this fuzzy category. >>> >>> 1. Roy Fielding stating I’m a Nazi troll. When asked for evidence of >> me >> being part of the Nazi party, none was presented. As far as I know, >> the >> Nazi party dissolved post WW2 and seems to exist as a word use by >> modern >> folk to remove people they dislike from their positions. The question: is >> libel a violation of social norms? >>> >>> 2. Sam Ruby in the past had threatened me with physical violence. If >> threat of violence is not breaking social norms then that seems like a >> break from social norms in and of itself. Thus, was Sam Ruby removed from >> his position in Apache? The question: is threat of violence a >> violation of >> social norms? >>> >>> 3. danielfb@ is the mysterious character that had access to our >> private@tinkerpop mailing list and said that a picture I made in >> photoshop of one of my chickens in WW2 regalia
Re: [DISCUSS] Removal of Marko A. Rodriguez from Apache TinkerPop
Marko, would you be open to a one-on-one conversation with me over video chat? On Fri, Jan 7, 2022 at 11:05 AM Marko Rodriguez wrote: > Thanks for the update. I opened up my email this morning to ping: > > “Any updates? I can’t believe open source software has come to > this. I look back and think, once you took your recent corporate position > and then were put on the Apache Board, it turned a once great software > development team, never mired in politics, into secret backdoor discussions > of what I can only presume to be of the nature “What does he know? More > than what he mentioned? **k that guy! We’re Apache — we're not going to be > held hostage by some Nazi racist!” Stephen, you would be surprised by who > has connected with me after hearing of Apache’s move to remove me from my > project. The people you have allied yourself with (for whatever reason) are > not of the caliber of person that I know you to be. I’ve known you for 15 > years now, working closely in harmony over numerous companies, and while > I’m aware of your life stresses and what that can do to a man, I’m certain > you are not of their breed. Don’t sully your soul by remaining entangled > with an organization that was once the life blood of open source software > and now, given all I’ve seen with my situation with them and have come to > learn from other, also its death. Good luck to you, old friend — I will > continue to remain in my holding pattern.” > > Take care, > Marko. > > > > On Jan 7, 2022, at 4:28 AM, Stephen Mallette > wrote: > > > > Hi Marko, I know this thread is a week old at this point. I just wanted > to > > let you know it's not being ignored. Thank you for your patience. > > > > On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 3:24 PM Marko Rodriguez > wrote: > > > >> Understood. > >> > >> Marko. > >> > >>> On Jan 5, 2022, at 12:31 PM, Stephen Mallette > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> Please allow some more time for a reply as I've been away for the New > >> Years > >>> Eve weekend. > >>> > >>> On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 12:50 PM Marko Rodriguez > >>> wrote: > >>> > Hey Stephen, > > Any movement on what I presented below? Meaning, do you 1.) agree with > inconsistent application of the “violated social norms” clause and if > so > 2.) do you plan to argue my point ‘in good faith’ (meaning, the > >> following > sentiment resonates with you: "every person has skeletons in their > >> closet > so why I are we attacking Marko after contributing his PhD work to > >> Apache > and then spending over a decade developing it only to kick him off the > project for telling jokes on Twitter?”). > > If you don’t agree, then please tell me so I can move forward on my > >> side. > > Thank you very much, > Marko. > > > > > On Dec 31, 2021, at 2:14 PM, Marko Rodriguez > wrote: > > > > Hello everyone, > > > > As you all may know, I was recently removed from TinkerPop for the > >> crime > of “being a Nazi troll.” When arguing I’m not a Nazi, I was told I > “violated social norms.” Assuming I violated social norms, I inquired > >> as to > where such social norms are specified as I never signed anything when > providing TinkerPop to Apache that mentioned ’social norms'. Moreover, > >> if > the crime of violating social norms is in fact how Apache wishes to > >> judge > people for the sake of removal by committee, then I believe this > statute > should be applied fairly and equally. Thus, please review the > following > “social norm violations” made by people in Apache and on Apache > >> TinkerPop. > Given that social norms are not specified anywhere, I offer simply > what > >> I > believe fall within this fuzzy category. > > > > 1. Roy Fielding stating I’m a Nazi troll. When asked for evidence of > me > being part of the Nazi party, none was presented. As far as I know, > the > Nazi party dissolved post WW2 and seems to exist as a word use by > modern > folk to remove people they dislike from their positions. The question: > >> is > libel a violation of social norms? > > > > 2. Sam Ruby in the past had threatened me with physical violence. If > threat of violence is not breaking social norms then that seems like a > break from social norms in and of itself. Thus, was Sam Ruby removed > >> from > his position in Apache? The question: is threat of violence a > violation > >> of > social norms? > > > > 3. danielfb@ is the mysterious character that had access to our > private@tinkerpop mailing list and said that a picture I made in > photoshop of one of my chickens in WW2 regalia was “offensive” to him > (I > assume ‘him' given the name ‘daniel’). My response was initially to > joke > (as I do), but then continued with (I paraphrase) “let’s talk more as > I > think you will find me to be a jokester.” That man was
Re: [DISCUSS] Removal of Marko A. Rodriguez from Apache TinkerPop
Thanks for the update. I opened up my email this morning to ping: “Any updates? I can’t believe open source software has come to this. I look back and think, once you took your recent corporate position and then were put on the Apache Board, it turned a once great software development team, never mired in politics, into secret backdoor discussions of what I can only presume to be of the nature “What does he know? More than what he mentioned? **k that guy! We’re Apache — we're not going to be held hostage by some Nazi racist!” Stephen, you would be surprised by who has connected with me after hearing of Apache’s move to remove me from my project. The people you have allied yourself with (for whatever reason) are not of the caliber of person that I know you to be. I’ve known you for 15 years now, working closely in harmony over numerous companies, and while I’m aware of your life stresses and what that can do to a man, I’m certain you are not of their breed. Don’t sully your soul by remaining entangled with an organization that was once the life blood of open source software and now, given all I’ve seen with my situation with them and have come to learn from other, also its death. Good luck to you, old friend — I will continue to remain in my holding pattern.” Take care, Marko. > On Jan 7, 2022, at 4:28 AM, Stephen Mallette wrote: > > Hi Marko, I know this thread is a week old at this point. I just wanted to > let you know it's not being ignored. Thank you for your patience. > > On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 3:24 PM Marko Rodriguez wrote: > >> Understood. >> >> Marko. >> >>> On Jan 5, 2022, at 12:31 PM, Stephen Mallette >> wrote: >>> >>> Please allow some more time for a reply as I've been away for the New >> Years >>> Eve weekend. >>> >>> On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 12:50 PM Marko Rodriguez >>> wrote: >>> Hey Stephen, Any movement on what I presented below? Meaning, do you 1.) agree with inconsistent application of the “violated social norms” clause and if so 2.) do you plan to argue my point ‘in good faith’ (meaning, the >> following sentiment resonates with you: "every person has skeletons in their >> closet so why I are we attacking Marko after contributing his PhD work to >> Apache and then spending over a decade developing it only to kick him off the project for telling jokes on Twitter?”). If you don’t agree, then please tell me so I can move forward on my >> side. Thank you very much, Marko. > On Dec 31, 2021, at 2:14 PM, Marko Rodriguez wrote: > > Hello everyone, > > As you all may know, I was recently removed from TinkerPop for the >> crime of “being a Nazi troll.” When arguing I’m not a Nazi, I was told I “violated social norms.” Assuming I violated social norms, I inquired >> as to where such social norms are specified as I never signed anything when providing TinkerPop to Apache that mentioned ’social norms'. Moreover, >> if the crime of violating social norms is in fact how Apache wishes to >> judge people for the sake of removal by committee, then I believe this statute should be applied fairly and equally. Thus, please review the following “social norm violations” made by people in Apache and on Apache >> TinkerPop. Given that social norms are not specified anywhere, I offer simply what >> I believe fall within this fuzzy category. > > 1. Roy Fielding stating I’m a Nazi troll. When asked for evidence of me being part of the Nazi party, none was presented. As far as I know, the Nazi party dissolved post WW2 and seems to exist as a word use by modern folk to remove people they dislike from their positions. The question: >> is libel a violation of social norms? > > 2. Sam Ruby in the past had threatened me with physical violence. If threat of violence is not breaking social norms then that seems like a break from social norms in and of itself. Thus, was Sam Ruby removed >> from his position in Apache? The question: is threat of violence a violation >> of social norms? > > 3. danielfb@ is the mysterious character that had access to our private@tinkerpop mailing list and said that a picture I made in photoshop of one of my chickens in WW2 regalia was “offensive” to him (I assume ‘him' given the name ‘daniel’). My response was initially to joke (as I do), but then continued with (I paraphrase) “let’s talk more as I think you will find me to be a jokester.” That man was never heard from again. The question: is allowing seemingly random people on our private mailing list in order to entrap me a violation of social norms? > > 4. Roy Fielding was unhappy with the fact that no one on the TinkerPop PMC cared about danielfb@’s allegation of me being a racist. In fact, Jorge said (I
Re: [DISCUSS] Removal of Marko A. Rodriguez from Apache TinkerPop
Hi Marko, I know this thread is a week old at this point. I just wanted to let you know it's not being ignored. Thank you for your patience. On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 3:24 PM Marko Rodriguez wrote: > Understood. > > Marko. > > > On Jan 5, 2022, at 12:31 PM, Stephen Mallette > wrote: > > > > Please allow some more time for a reply as I've been away for the New > Years > > Eve weekend. > > > > On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 12:50 PM Marko Rodriguez > > wrote: > > > >> Hey Stephen, > >> > >> Any movement on what I presented below? Meaning, do you 1.) agree with > >> inconsistent application of the “violated social norms” clause and if so > >> 2.) do you plan to argue my point ‘in good faith’ (meaning, the > following > >> sentiment resonates with you: "every person has skeletons in their > closet > >> so why I are we attacking Marko after contributing his PhD work to > Apache > >> and then spending over a decade developing it only to kick him off the > >> project for telling jokes on Twitter?”). > >> > >> If you don’t agree, then please tell me so I can move forward on my > side. > >> > >> Thank you very much, > >> Marko. > >> > >> > >> > >>> On Dec 31, 2021, at 2:14 PM, Marko Rodriguez > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> Hello everyone, > >>> > >>> As you all may know, I was recently removed from TinkerPop for the > crime > >> of “being a Nazi troll.” When arguing I’m not a Nazi, I was told I > >> “violated social norms.” Assuming I violated social norms, I inquired > as to > >> where such social norms are specified as I never signed anything when > >> providing TinkerPop to Apache that mentioned ’social norms'. Moreover, > if > >> the crime of violating social norms is in fact how Apache wishes to > judge > >> people for the sake of removal by committee, then I believe this statute > >> should be applied fairly and equally. Thus, please review the following > >> “social norm violations” made by people in Apache and on Apache > TinkerPop. > >> Given that social norms are not specified anywhere, I offer simply what > I > >> believe fall within this fuzzy category. > >>> > >>> 1. Roy Fielding stating I’m a Nazi troll. When asked for evidence of me > >> being part of the Nazi party, none was presented. As far as I know, the > >> Nazi party dissolved post WW2 and seems to exist as a word use by modern > >> folk to remove people they dislike from their positions. The question: > is > >> libel a violation of social norms? > >>> > >>> 2. Sam Ruby in the past had threatened me with physical violence. If > >> threat of violence is not breaking social norms then that seems like a > >> break from social norms in and of itself. Thus, was Sam Ruby removed > from > >> his position in Apache? The question: is threat of violence a violation > of > >> social norms? > >>> > >>> 3. danielfb@ is the mysterious character that had access to our > >> private@tinkerpop mailing list and said that a picture I made in > >> photoshop of one of my chickens in WW2 regalia was “offensive” to him (I > >> assume ‘him' given the name ‘daniel’). My response was initially to joke > >> (as I do), but then continued with (I paraphrase) “let’s talk more as I > >> think you will find me to be a jokester.” That man was never heard from > >> again. The question: is allowing seemingly random people on our private > >> mailing list in order to entrap me a violation of social norms? > >>> > >>> 4. Roy Fielding was unhappy with the fact that no one on the TinkerPop > >> PMC cared about danielfb@’s allegation of me being a racist. In fact, > >> Jorge said (I paraphrase) "that’s not racism, he’s just being silly.” He > >> went on to note organizations that Apache could get behind that help > fight > >> racism — unfortunately, that fell on deaf ears. Instead, Roy Fielding > went > >> ahead and ignored the PMC's brush off saying (I paraphrase) “I know you > are > >> friends and its hard to punish people you’ve worked with.” This seemed > odd > >> to me because the email prior I had said “no one ever stands up for me > >> because most people never understand the point I’m trying to make with > my > >> craft.” (I consider much of the work I do ‘art’). Thus, Roy Fielding > pushed > >> an agenda placing thoughts/emotions in colleagues that did not exist. > The > >> question: is baiting the group so they do his 'dirty work' not a > violation > >> of social norms? > >>> > >>> 5. Stephen Mallette and I have worked together for over a decade. It > >> came as a shock to me that he said nothing in favor of my person when I > was > >> deemed a “racist” and a “nazi.” The question: is not standing up for a > >> friend who has been there for you for many years not a violation of > social > >> norms? > >>> > >>> 6. Stephen Mallette knows what I was “charged with” was just some > social > >> ploy using the rhetoric of the times to restructure power by removing > those > >> individuals that don’t tow some party line which I was never made aware > of. > >> While I assert these are
Re: [DISCUSS] Removal of Marko A. Rodriguez from Apache TinkerPop
Understood. Marko. > On Jan 5, 2022, at 12:31 PM, Stephen Mallette wrote: > > Please allow some more time for a reply as I've been away for the New Years > Eve weekend. > > On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 12:50 PM Marko Rodriguez > wrote: > >> Hey Stephen, >> >> Any movement on what I presented below? Meaning, do you 1.) agree with >> inconsistent application of the “violated social norms” clause and if so >> 2.) do you plan to argue my point ‘in good faith’ (meaning, the following >> sentiment resonates with you: "every person has skeletons in their closet >> so why I are we attacking Marko after contributing his PhD work to Apache >> and then spending over a decade developing it only to kick him off the >> project for telling jokes on Twitter?”). >> >> If you don’t agree, then please tell me so I can move forward on my side. >> >> Thank you very much, >> Marko. >> >> >> >>> On Dec 31, 2021, at 2:14 PM, Marko Rodriguez >> wrote: >>> >>> Hello everyone, >>> >>> As you all may know, I was recently removed from TinkerPop for the crime >> of “being a Nazi troll.” When arguing I’m not a Nazi, I was told I >> “violated social norms.” Assuming I violated social norms, I inquired as to >> where such social norms are specified as I never signed anything when >> providing TinkerPop to Apache that mentioned ’social norms'. Moreover, if >> the crime of violating social norms is in fact how Apache wishes to judge >> people for the sake of removal by committee, then I believe this statute >> should be applied fairly and equally. Thus, please review the following >> “social norm violations” made by people in Apache and on Apache TinkerPop. >> Given that social norms are not specified anywhere, I offer simply what I >> believe fall within this fuzzy category. >>> >>> 1. Roy Fielding stating I’m a Nazi troll. When asked for evidence of me >> being part of the Nazi party, none was presented. As far as I know, the >> Nazi party dissolved post WW2 and seems to exist as a word use by modern >> folk to remove people they dislike from their positions. The question: is >> libel a violation of social norms? >>> >>> 2. Sam Ruby in the past had threatened me with physical violence. If >> threat of violence is not breaking social norms then that seems like a >> break from social norms in and of itself. Thus, was Sam Ruby removed from >> his position in Apache? The question: is threat of violence a violation of >> social norms? >>> >>> 3. danielfb@ is the mysterious character that had access to our >> private@tinkerpop mailing list and said that a picture I made in >> photoshop of one of my chickens in WW2 regalia was “offensive” to him (I >> assume ‘him' given the name ‘daniel’). My response was initially to joke >> (as I do), but then continued with (I paraphrase) “let’s talk more as I >> think you will find me to be a jokester.” That man was never heard from >> again. The question: is allowing seemingly random people on our private >> mailing list in order to entrap me a violation of social norms? >>> >>> 4. Roy Fielding was unhappy with the fact that no one on the TinkerPop >> PMC cared about danielfb@’s allegation of me being a racist. In fact, >> Jorge said (I paraphrase) "that’s not racism, he’s just being silly.” He >> went on to note organizations that Apache could get behind that help fight >> racism — unfortunately, that fell on deaf ears. Instead, Roy Fielding went >> ahead and ignored the PMC's brush off saying (I paraphrase) “I know you are >> friends and its hard to punish people you’ve worked with.” This seemed odd >> to me because the email prior I had said “no one ever stands up for me >> because most people never understand the point I’m trying to make with my >> craft.” (I consider much of the work I do ‘art’). Thus, Roy Fielding pushed >> an agenda placing thoughts/emotions in colleagues that did not exist. The >> question: is baiting the group so they do his 'dirty work' not a violation >> of social norms? >>> >>> 5. Stephen Mallette and I have worked together for over a decade. It >> came as a shock to me that he said nothing in favor of my person when I was >> deemed a “racist” and a “nazi.” The question: is not standing up for a >> friend who has been there for you for many years not a violation of social >> norms? >>> >>> 6. Stephen Mallette knows what I was “charged with” was just some social >> ploy using the rhetoric of the times to restructure power by removing those >> individuals that don’t tow some party line which I was never made aware of. >> While I assert these are whimsical and without merit, you know what real >> charges you have against yourself, Stephen, and I won’t get into those, but >> I believe you would feel much better (less social stressed) as a person if >> you were to say: “letting organizations condemn people so they can steal >> prestige or money from them is not right and I take my stand against it.” >> As such, the question: when a person living in a glass house
Re: [DISCUSS] Removal of Marko A. Rodriguez from Apache TinkerPop
Please allow some more time for a reply as I've been away for the New Years Eve weekend. On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 12:50 PM Marko Rodriguez wrote: > Hey Stephen, > > Any movement on what I presented below? Meaning, do you 1.) agree with > inconsistent application of the “violated social norms” clause and if so > 2.) do you plan to argue my point ‘in good faith’ (meaning, the following > sentiment resonates with you: "every person has skeletons in their closet > so why I are we attacking Marko after contributing his PhD work to Apache > and then spending over a decade developing it only to kick him off the > project for telling jokes on Twitter?”). > > If you don’t agree, then please tell me so I can move forward on my side. > > Thank you very much, > Marko. > > > > > On Dec 31, 2021, at 2:14 PM, Marko Rodriguez > wrote: > > > > Hello everyone, > > > > As you all may know, I was recently removed from TinkerPop for the crime > of “being a Nazi troll.” When arguing I’m not a Nazi, I was told I > “violated social norms.” Assuming I violated social norms, I inquired as to > where such social norms are specified as I never signed anything when > providing TinkerPop to Apache that mentioned ’social norms'. Moreover, if > the crime of violating social norms is in fact how Apache wishes to judge > people for the sake of removal by committee, then I believe this statute > should be applied fairly and equally. Thus, please review the following > “social norm violations” made by people in Apache and on Apache TinkerPop. > Given that social norms are not specified anywhere, I offer simply what I > believe fall within this fuzzy category. > > > > 1. Roy Fielding stating I’m a Nazi troll. When asked for evidence of me > being part of the Nazi party, none was presented. As far as I know, the > Nazi party dissolved post WW2 and seems to exist as a word use by modern > folk to remove people they dislike from their positions. The question: is > libel a violation of social norms? > > > > 2. Sam Ruby in the past had threatened me with physical violence. If > threat of violence is not breaking social norms then that seems like a > break from social norms in and of itself. Thus, was Sam Ruby removed from > his position in Apache? The question: is threat of violence a violation of > social norms? > > > > 3. danielfb@ is the mysterious character that had access to our > private@tinkerpop mailing list and said that a picture I made in > photoshop of one of my chickens in WW2 regalia was “offensive” to him (I > assume ‘him' given the name ‘daniel’). My response was initially to joke > (as I do), but then continued with (I paraphrase) “let’s talk more as I > think you will find me to be a jokester.” That man was never heard from > again. The question: is allowing seemingly random people on our private > mailing list in order to entrap me a violation of social norms? > > > > 4. Roy Fielding was unhappy with the fact that no one on the TinkerPop > PMC cared about danielfb@’s allegation of me being a racist. In fact, > Jorge said (I paraphrase) "that’s not racism, he’s just being silly.” He > went on to note organizations that Apache could get behind that help fight > racism — unfortunately, that fell on deaf ears. Instead, Roy Fielding went > ahead and ignored the PMC's brush off saying (I paraphrase) “I know you are > friends and its hard to punish people you’ve worked with.” This seemed odd > to me because the email prior I had said “no one ever stands up for me > because most people never understand the point I’m trying to make with my > craft.” (I consider much of the work I do ‘art’). Thus, Roy Fielding pushed > an agenda placing thoughts/emotions in colleagues that did not exist. The > question: is baiting the group so they do his 'dirty work' not a violation > of social norms? > > > > 5. Stephen Mallette and I have worked together for over a decade. It > came as a shock to me that he said nothing in favor of my person when I was > deemed a “racist” and a “nazi.” The question: is not standing up for a > friend who has been there for you for many years not a violation of social > norms? > > > > 6. Stephen Mallette knows what I was “charged with” was just some social > ploy using the rhetoric of the times to restructure power by removing those > individuals that don’t tow some party line which I was never made aware of. > While I assert these are whimsical and without merit, you know what real > charges you have against yourself, Stephen, and I won’t get into those, but > I believe you would feel much better (less social stressed) as a person if > you were to say: “letting organizations condemn people so they can steal > prestige or money from them is not right and I take my stand against it.” > As such, the question: when a person living in a glass house throws stones, > is that not a violation of social norms? > > > > 7. Stephen Mallette knows very well the quality of Josh Shinavier’s > contributions and the hollowness of his
Re: [DISCUSS] Removal of Marko A. Rodriguez from Apache TinkerPop
Hey Stephen, Any movement on what I presented below? Meaning, do you 1.) agree with inconsistent application of the “violated social norms” clause and if so 2.) do you plan to argue my point ‘in good faith’ (meaning, the following sentiment resonates with you: "every person has skeletons in their closet so why I are we attacking Marko after contributing his PhD work to Apache and then spending over a decade developing it only to kick him off the project for telling jokes on Twitter?”). If you don’t agree, then please tell me so I can move forward on my side. Thank you very much, Marko. > On Dec 31, 2021, at 2:14 PM, Marko Rodriguez wrote: > > Hello everyone, > > As you all may know, I was recently removed from TinkerPop for the crime of > “being a Nazi troll.” When arguing I’m not a Nazi, I was told I “violated > social norms.” Assuming I violated social norms, I inquired as to where such > social norms are specified as I never signed anything when providing > TinkerPop to Apache that mentioned ’social norms'. Moreover, if the crime of > violating social norms is in fact how Apache wishes to judge people for the > sake of removal by committee, then I believe this statute should be applied > fairly and equally. Thus, please review the following “social norm > violations” made by people in Apache and on Apache TinkerPop. Given that > social norms are not specified anywhere, I offer simply what I believe fall > within this fuzzy category. > > 1. Roy Fielding stating I’m a Nazi troll. When asked for evidence of me being > part of the Nazi party, none was presented. As far as I know, the Nazi party > dissolved post WW2 and seems to exist as a word use by modern folk to remove > people they dislike from their positions. The question: is libel a violation > of social norms? > > 2. Sam Ruby in the past had threatened me with physical violence. If threat > of violence is not breaking social norms then that seems like a break from > social norms in and of itself. Thus, was Sam Ruby removed from his position > in Apache? The question: is threat of violence a violation of social norms? > > 3. danielfb@ is the mysterious character that had access to our > private@tinkerpop mailing list and said that a picture I made in photoshop of > one of my chickens in WW2 regalia was “offensive” to him (I assume ‘him' > given the name ‘daniel’). My response was initially to joke (as I do), but > then continued with (I paraphrase) “let’s talk more as I think you will find > me to be a jokester.” That man was never heard from again. The question: is > allowing seemingly random people on our private mailing list in order to > entrap me a violation of social norms? > > 4. Roy Fielding was unhappy with the fact that no one on the TinkerPop PMC > cared about danielfb@’s allegation of me being a racist. In fact, Jorge said > (I paraphrase) "that’s not racism, he’s just being silly.” He went on to note > organizations that Apache could get behind that help fight racism — > unfortunately, that fell on deaf ears. Instead, Roy Fielding went ahead and > ignored the PMC's brush off saying (I paraphrase) “I know you are friends and > its hard to punish people you’ve worked with.” This seemed odd to me because > the email prior I had said “no one ever stands up for me because most people > never understand the point I’m trying to make with my craft.” (I consider > much of the work I do ‘art’). Thus, Roy Fielding pushed an agenda placing > thoughts/emotions in colleagues that did not exist. The question: is baiting > the group so they do his 'dirty work' not a violation of social norms? > > 5. Stephen Mallette and I have worked together for over a decade. It came as > a shock to me that he said nothing in favor of my person when I was deemed a > “racist” and a “nazi.” The question: is not standing up for a friend who has > been there for you for many years not a violation of social norms? > > 6. Stephen Mallette knows what I was “charged with” was just some social ploy > using the rhetoric of the times to restructure power by removing those > individuals that don’t tow some party line which I was never made aware of. > While I assert these are whimsical and without merit, you know what real > charges you have against yourself, Stephen, and I won’t get into those, but I > believe you would feel much better (less social stressed) as a person if you > were to say: “letting organizations condemn people so they can steal prestige > or money from them is not right and I take my stand against it.” As such, the > question: when a person living in a glass house throws stones, is that not a > violation of social norms? > > 7. Stephen Mallette knows very well the quality of Josh Shinavier’s > contributions and the hollowness of his promises as over the years we have > joked many times about it. So why would he be put on the PMC right after I > was removed as you and I both know he is
