Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
but is texmfcnf.lua loaded? (--verbose) Sure. Both for root and the normal user. ok, another attempt .. new beta Version 2008.05.27 16:31 happily generates the file database and compiles both english and dutch formats! Also, it sticks to the proper cache location I defined in texmf/web2c/texmfcnf.lua ... again without any environment variables set. Simple ConTeXt test files finally compile. Thanks very much for the effort you put into this crucial problem! Oliver P.S. Can you put that context stub back into the minimals? ___ dev-context mailing list dev-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/dev-context
Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 6:39 PM, Oliver Buerschaper wrote: P.S. Can you put that context stub back into the minimals? It's only missing in the scripts/context/stubs/unix/ folder, in scripts/context/stubs/mswin/ it is present :) Mojca ___ dev-context mailing list dev-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/dev-context
Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
Mojca Miklavec wrote: On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 6:39 PM, Oliver Buerschaper wrote: P.S. Can you put that context stub back into the minimals? It's only missing in the scripts/context/stubs/unix/ folder, in scripts/context/stubs/mswin/ it is present :) well, i copy a non existing unix stub into the zip is this one ok? #!/bin/sh mtxrun --script context $@ Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ dev-context mailing list dev-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/dev-context
Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
well, i copy a non existing unix stub into the zip is this one ok? #!/bin/sh mtxrun --script context $@ Perfect. It's exactly the one that used to be present in the beta 2008.05.24 20:06 (both in the binaries as well as the unix stubs directories). I was wondering why you removed it at all ;-) Oliver ___ dev-context mailing list dev-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/dev-context
Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
Another question: what part of the LuaTeX chain is responsible for locating the configuration files? Is it the scripts mtxrun.lua and luatools.lua or the binary texlua itself? You mentioned something about luatools only but now that Hans uploaded the entire beta ... this is done in the lua code and taco and i spent quit esome time experimenting with this; our filosophy is to hard code as less as possible and let lud du the work unless this is not possible; here we have a border case with these symlinks; an option would to add functions that provide info about the symlink, but then, we don;t wan tto add too many functions to the core; hoever in this case it may be that we need to let the binary provide info about the path where the binary resides (also because it may be a bit playform depedent) Who's lud? (btw, the lua code is in luat-inp but merged into mtxrun and luatools so that these scripts can operate independent of libraries, because otherwise we can have another chicken or egg problem) Good to know ... at some point part of the interface in luat-inp will be public i.e. users can use it themselves, but first i need to clean up that code Sure :-) Oliver ___ dev-context mailing list dev-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/dev-context
Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
What I mean is this: in the full path /usr/texbin/luatex, texbin
can be a symlink to a different directory and that will be followed,
but if luatex itself is a symlink to a file in a different
directory,
that will not be noticed.
I think this should be just fine for the moment ...
Extended report ... in short, format compilation fails because of file
location problems. Apparently generating the LuaTeX cache succeeds
though. See below.
---
bash# luatools --generate --verbose
LuaTools | version 1.2.0 - 2006+ - PRAGMA ADE / CONTEXT
LuaTools | following symlink /usr/texbin to /usr/local/context/
2008-05-24-beta/texmf-osx-intel/bin
LuaTools | variable SELFAUTOLOC set to /usr/local/context/2008-05-24-
beta/texmf-osx-intel/bin
LuaTools | variable SELFAUTODIR set to /usr/local/context/2008-05-24-
beta/texmf-osx-intel/bin/..
LuaTools | variable SELFAUTOPARENT set to /usr/local/context/
2008-05-24-beta/texmf-osx-intel/bin/../..
LuaTools | variable TEXMFCNF set to {$SELFAUTODIR,$SELFAUTOPARENT}{,{/
share,}/texmf{-local,.local,}/web2c}
LuaTools | loading configuration file /usr/local/context/2008-05-24-
beta/texmf/web2c/texmfcnf.lua
LuaTools | loading /usr/local/context/2008-05-24-beta/texmf/web2c/
texmf.cnf
LuaTools | preparing configuration for /usr/local/context/2008-05-24-
beta/texmf/web2c
LuaTools | saving configuration in /usr/local/context/2008-05-24-beta/
texmf-cache/luatex-cache/context/e09ab1c5fd12ff1663572f339200d7b9/
trees/01087b0ca69d21f3ef3ffa1e45445465.tma
LuaTools | compiling configuration to /usr/local/context/2008-05-24-
beta/texmf-cache/luatex-cache/context/e09ab1c5fd12ff1663572f339200d7b9/
trees/01087b0ca69d21f3ef3ffa1e45445465.tmc
LuaTools | locating list of /usr/local/context/2008-05-24-beta/texmf-
project
LuaTools | locating list of /usr/local/context/2008-05-24-beta/texmf-
fonts
LuaTools | locating list of /usr/local/context/2008-05-24-beta/texmf-
local
LuaTools | locating list of /usr/local/context/2008-05-24-beta/texmf-
context
LuaTools | locating list of /usr/local/context/2008-05-24-beta/texmf-
extra
LuaTools | locating list of /usr/local/context/2008-05-24-beta/texmf
LuaTools | scanning path /usr/local/context/2008-05-24-beta/texmf-local
LuaTools | 0 files found on 0 directories with 0 uppercase remappings
LuaTools | scanning path /usr/local/context/2008-05-24-beta/texmf-
context
LuaTools | 1349 files found on 125 directories with 0 uppercase
remappings
LuaTools | scanning path /usr/local/context/2008-05-24-beta/texmf
LuaTools | 1550 files found on 82 directories with 60 uppercase
remappings
LuaTools | preparing files for /usr/local/context/2008-05-24-beta/texmf
LuaTools | saving files in /usr/local/context/2008-05-24-beta/texmf-
cache/luatex-cache/context/e09ab1c5fd12ff1663572f339200d7b9/trees/
058e57e5173e90883a3ba926c33fe22d.tma
LuaTools | compiling files to /usr/local/context/2008-05-24-beta/texmf-
cache/luatex-cache/context/e09ab1c5fd12ff1663572f339200d7b9/trees/
058e57e5173e90883a3ba926c33fe22d.tmc
LuaTools | preparing files for /usr/local/context/2008-05-24-beta/
texmf-context
LuaTools | saving files in /usr/local/context/2008-05-24-beta/texmf-
cache/luatex-cache/context/e09ab1c5fd12ff1663572f339200d7b9/trees/
3c541a92ee2a3a79f77458e195b0a0f8.tma
LuaTools | compiling files to /usr/local/context/2008-05-24-beta/texmf-
cache/luatex-cache/context/e09ab1c5fd12ff1663572f339200d7b9/trees/
3c541a92ee2a3a79f77458e195b0a0f8.tmc
LuaTools | preparing files for /usr/local/context/2008-05-24-beta/
texmf-local
LuaTools | saving files in /usr/local/context/2008-05-24-beta/texmf-
cache/luatex-cache/context/e09ab1c5fd12ff1663572f339200d7b9/trees/
678bda37a3a32e3b1917a023bf896e91.tma
LuaTools | compiling files to /usr/local/context/2008-05-24-beta/texmf-
cache/luatex-cache/context/e09ab1c5fd12ff1663572f339200d7b9/trees/
678bda37a3a32e3b1917a023bf896e91.tmc
LuaTools |
LuaTools | runtime: 0.255 seconds
---
So far, so good. Now creating the format fails although the file texmf-
context/tex/context/base/context.tex is present and perfectly
readable :-(
---
bash# luatools --ini --compile --verbose cont-en
LuaTools | version 1.2.0 - 2006+ - PRAGMA ADE / CONTEXT
LuaTools | following symlink /usr/texbin to /usr/local/context/
2008-05-24-beta/texmf-osx-intel/bin
LuaTools | variable SELFAUTOLOC set to /usr/local/context/2008-05-24-
beta/texmf-osx-intel/bin
LuaTools | variable SELFAUTODIR set to /usr/local/context/2008-05-24-
beta/texmf-osx-intel/bin/..
LuaTools | variable SELFAUTOPARENT set to /usr/local/context/
2008-05-24-beta/texmf-osx-intel/bin/../..
LuaTools | variable TEXMFCNF set to {$SELFAUTODIR,$SELFAUTOPARENT}{,{/
share,}/texmf{-local,.local,}/web2c}
LuaTools | loading configuration file /usr/local/context/2008-05-24-
beta/texmf/web2c/texmfcnf.lua
LuaTools | loading configuration for /usr/local/context/2008-05-24-
beta/texmf/web2c from /usr/local/context/2008-05-24-beta/texmf-cache/
Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
Oliver Buerschaper wrote: Another question: what part of the LuaTeX chain is responsible for locating the configuration files? Is it the scripts mtxrun.lua and luatools.lua or the binary texlua itself? You mentioned something about luatools only but now that Hans uploaded the entire beta ... this is done in the lua code and taco and i spent quit esome time experimenting with this; our filosophy is to hard code as less as possible and let lud du the work unless this is not possible; here we have a border case with these symlinks; an option would to add functions that provide info about the symlink, but then, we don;t wan tto add too many functions to the core; hoever in this case it may be that we need to let the binary provide info about the path where the binary resides (also because it may be a bit playform depedent) (btw, the lua code is in luat-inp but merged into mtxrun and luatools so that these scripts can operate independent of libraries, because otherwise we can have another chicken or egg problem) at some point part of the interface in luat-inp will be public i.e. users can use it themselves, but first i need to clean up that code Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ dev-context mailing list dev-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/dev-context
Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
Who's lud? Lua :-) ___ dev-context mailing list dev-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/dev-context
Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
Oliver Buerschaper wrote: What I mean is this: in the full path /usr/texbin/luatex, texbin can be a symlink to a different directory and that will be followed, but if luatex itself is a symlink to a file in a different directory, that will not be noticed. I think this should be just fine for the moment ... Extended report ... in short, format compilation fails because of file location problems. Apparently generating the LuaTeX cache succeeds though. See below. the hashes differ (these hashes represent the original path of the subtree and are needed in order to run multiple trees in one cache) loading files for .../trees/678bda37a3a32e3b1917a023bf896e91 saving files in .../trees/058e57e5173e90883a3ba926c33fe22d loading files for .../trees/3c541a92ee2a3a79f77458e195b0a0f8 saving files in .../trees/3c541a92ee2a3a79f77458e195b0a0f8 loading files for .../trees/058e57e5173e90883a3ba926c33fe22d saving files in .../trees/678bda37a3a32e3b1917a023bf896e91 maybe you can add some message to caches.hashed caches.setpath and see what happens there (luat-tmp) - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ dev-context mailing list dev-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/dev-context
Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
Martin Schröder wrote: 2008/5/23 Hans Hagen [EMAIL PROTECTED]: sure, but it depends on tmp being cleaned up too; afaik /tmp and c:/temp are only cleaned up periodically e.g. when one runs out of space so it's a kind of indication of 'may be cleaned up' Many Unixes clear /tmp at bootup. Even SUSE can do this. :-) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temporary_directory In Unix and Linux, the global temporary directories are /tmp and /var/tmp. Typically, /var/tmp is for more permanent files, and /tmp is for more temporary files. See Filesystem Hierarchy Standard. In addition, a user can set his TMPDIR environment variable to point to a preferred directory (where the creation and modification of files is allowed). so then checking for TMPDIR should precece TMP - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ dev-context mailing list dev-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/dev-context
Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
Hi Taco,
This new release is available now.
I've just had the chance to test this new release and got mixed
results ... the 2008.05.21 minimal distribution (LuaTeX only) now sits
in
/usr/local/context/2008-05-21
and there's a symbolic link
/usr/texbin - /usr/local/context/2008-05-21/texmf-osx-intel/bin
to the binaries. This link is given by the distribution switching
mechanism on the Mac (see my earlier post in this thread) and is
appended to $PATH, too. Furthermore, *no* TEXMFCNF environment
variable is set.
Now there's a problem of finding the texmf.cnf file:
---
$/usr/texbin/luatools --generate --verbose
LuaTools | version 1.2.0 - 2006+ - PRAGMA ADE / CONTEXT
LuaTools | variable SELFAUTOLOC set to /usr/texbin
LuaTools | variable SELFAUTODIR set to /usr/texbin/..
LuaTools | variable SELFAUTOPARENT set to /usr/texbin/../..
LuaTools | variable TEXMFCNF set to {$SELFAUTODIR,$SELFAUTOPARENT}{,{/
share,}/texmf{-local,.local,}/web2c}
LuaTools | no cnf files found (TEXMFCNF may not be set/known)
LuaTools |
LuaTools | runtime: 0.004 seconds
---
The problem persists when I call the binary directly:
---
$ /usr/local/context/2008-05-21/texmf-osx-intel/bin/luatools --
generate --verbose
LuaTools | version 1.2.0 - 2006+ - PRAGMA ADE / CONTEXT
LuaTools | variable SELFAUTOLOC set to /usr/texbin
LuaTools | variable SELFAUTODIR set to /usr/texbin/..
LuaTools | variable SELFAUTOPARENT set to /usr/texbin/../..
LuaTools | variable TEXMFCNF set to {$SELFAUTODIR,$SELFAUTOPARENT}{,{/
share,}/texmf{-local,.local,}/web2c}
LuaTools | no cnf files found (TEXMFCNF may not be set/known)
LuaTools |
LuaTools | runtime: 0.007 seconds
---
Obviously, the problem is the symbolic link because LuaTeX tries and
finds argv[0] in $PATH but doesn't resolve /usr/texbin to its actual
location on disk. It's clear that in this situation there can't be any
difference between the distribution-independent syntax of calling
luatex and the direct invocation.
Do you think LuaTeX's path discovery mechanism could be adapted to
handle symbolic links?
All the best,
Oliver
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Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
Oliver Buerschaper wrote: Obviously, the problem is the symbolic link because LuaTeX tries and finds argv[0] in $PATH but doesn't resolve /usr/texbin to its actual location on disk. It's clear that in this situation there can't be any difference between the distribution-independent syntax of calling luatex and the direct invocation. Do you think LuaTeX's path discovery mechanism could be adapted to handle symbolic links? there is lfs.symlinkattributes but i'm somewhat reluctant to usinmg platform specific things; if i have time i'll see if this function returns something useful Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ dev-context mailing list dev-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/dev-context
Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
Hans Hagen wrote: Oliver Buerschaper wrote: Obviously, the problem is the symbolic link because LuaTeX tries and finds argv[0] in $PATH but doesn't resolve /usr/texbin to its actual location on disk. It's clear that in this situation there can't be any difference between the distribution-independent syntax of calling luatex and the direct invocation. Do you think LuaTeX's path discovery mechanism could be adapted to handle symbolic links? there is lfs.symlinkattributes but i'm somewhat reluctant to usinmg platform specific things; if i have time i'll see if this function returns something useful No need, here is function that works and is portable to all platforms: function input.getownpath() local olddir = lfs.currentdir() if not input.ownpath then for p in string.gmatch(os.getenv(PATH),[^..io.pathseparator..]+) do lfs.chdir(p) p = lfs.currentdir() local b = file.join(p,input.ownbin) if lfs.isfile(b...exe) or lfs.isfile(b) then input.ownpath = p break end end if not input.ownpath then input.ownpath = '.' end end lfs.chdir(olddir) return input.ownpath end Oliver, I have emailed you a patched version of luatools.lua. Can you try to make sure that it works for you as well? (It should, but ...) Best wishes, Taco ___ dev-context mailing list dev-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/dev-context
Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
Taco Hoekwater wrote: The chosen method has a few small flaws in bordercases that will be corrected eventually (in a new luatex release) but it seems to work well enough for now Before Oliver tells me I am being vague again: ;-) What I mean is this: in the full path /usr/texbin/luatex, texbin can be a symlink to a different directory and that will be followed, but if luatex itself is a symlink to a file in a different directory, that will not be noticed. Solving that in pure lua is pretty hard, so I will add a predefined full executable path variable in the next luatex beta. Best wishes, Taco ___ dev-context mailing list dev-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/dev-context
Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
Hi again, (replying to myself) Taco Hoekwater wrote: Oliver, I have emailed you a patched version of luatools.lua. Can you try to make sure that it works for you as well? (It should, but ...) Hans is just finished uploading a new beta that has two fixes in this area: * there was a bug in the TEXMFCACHE defaulting, making it ask strange questions if TEXMFCACHE was not set in texmfcnf.lua. * it comes with a variation of the symlink-discovering code I posted earlier. There is an extra report line if a symlink is followed while discovering the full executable path. e.g.: LuaTools | following symlink /home/taco/mybin to /usr/local/bin The chosen method has a few small flaws in bordercases that will be corrected eventually (in a new luatex release) but it seems to work well enough for now Best wishes, Taco ___ dev-context mailing list dev-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/dev-context
Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
Unrelated - how exactly do I set TEXMFCACHE to be in texmf-cache alongside other texmf trees? I have tried (I know that this cannot work): TEXMFCACHE = '$TEXROOT/texmf-cache', but TEXROOT is probably unknown anyway I forgot to finish the sentence: with this setting I get luatools --generate LuaTools | loading configuration file /Users/mojca/context/tex/texmf/web2c/texmfcnf.lua LuaTools | loading /Users/mojca/context/tex/texmf/web2c/texmf.cnfShould I create the cache path /texmf-cache? [yes|no] [no] every time, independent on whether I answer with yes or no. And everytime cache is generated under $HOME/luatex-cache. I guess that $TOXROOT is simply empty and /texmf-cache is not writable by me. Mojca ___ dev-context mailing list dev-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/dev-context
Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
Mojca Miklavec wrote: Here I have the cnf file under /usr/local/gwTeX/texmf.cnf huh, in the root of the tree? is that also true for upcoming versions? i'm not sure if we should support all variants of trees and maybe gwtex assumes an env var to be set? Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ dev-context mailing list dev-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/dev-context
Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 9:34 AM, Hans Hagen wrote: Mojca Miklavec wrote: in the path bases variant, you cannot use TEXOS and TEXROOT since they don't exist; you can try TEXMFCACHE=/tmp I know, but I do not want the cache to go to /tmp. It's still nice to be able to reuse it from time to time. Mojca ___ dev-context mailing list dev-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/dev-context
Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
Mojca Miklavec wrote: On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 9:31 AM, Hans Hagen wrote: Mojca Miklavec wrote: Here I have the cnf file under /usr/local/gwTeX/texmf.cnf huh, in the root of the tree? is that also true for upcoming versions? i'm not sure if we should support all variants of trees and maybe gwtex assumes an env var to be set? In gwTeX there is only one variable, namely PATH is set to /usr/texbin, and that is a symlink to the proper version of binaries (/usr/local/gwTeX/bin/i386-apple-darwin8.8.1 in my case). Nothing else is needed, even though Oliver might explain more details if needed. From what Taco explained, that configuration should already be OK. gwtex can have a patched default for TEXMFCNF (i.e the period instead of the -) - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ dev-context mailing list dev-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/dev-context
Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
few? afaik all windows and linux systems -) No :-) I have to insist like one year ago, *no* Linux machine I have an account on does set TMP or TEMP (using various distributions). Maybe that's a shell problem, I don't know, but on any case you can't rely on it. anyhow, taco and i decided now to default as follows: if CACHEPATH is not set: cachepath = os.env[TEXMFCACHE] or os.env[TMP] or os.env[TEMP] or os.env[TMPDIR] or os.get[HOME] or os.env[HOMEPATH] or nil Sounds reasonable, but why not test for the existence of the /tmp directory also? Arthur ___ dev-context mailing list dev-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/dev-context
Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
weird because what then is the purpose of that variable But if there is no such variable, what's the point of looking for its purpose? :-) I suppose that on Unix, functions like mkstemp have to be preferred for truly temporary directories. Arthur ___ dev-context mailing list dev-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/dev-context
Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
Arthur Reutenauer wrote: weird because what then is the purpose of that variable But if there is no such variable, what's the point of looking for its purpose? :-) I suppose that on Unix, functions like mkstemp have to be preferred for truly temporary directories. sure, but it depends on tmp being cleaned up too; afaik /tmp and c:/temp are only cleaned up periodically e.g. when one runs out of space so it's a kind of indication of 'may be cleaned up' anyhow, it makes even more sense on templess systems to set the texmfcache var (what i actually dislike is all this ~/.crap stuff which apart from not being that readable also give a fuzzy indication .. temp? hidden? weird? app-only?) - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ dev-context mailing list dev-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/dev-context
Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
Norbert Preining wrote: On Mi, 21 Mai 2008, Taco Hoekwater wrote: that the ConTeXt shipping with TeX Live should be regarded as the official stable release ... We have not added mkiv to texlive. If it is included now, then that is thanks to Norbert's packaging. No I didn't add anything to the TeX Live repository, that I leave to Taco/Hans/whoever. I would say it is up to them to ship what they consider fine. I am trying to package the latest context for Debian. But AFAIS, the whole context could in fact be omitted. As far as I see *everyone* using context also uses his home-grown installation etc ;-) not true -) the so called minimals are based on my personal subset that i use in project; one can consider them a kind if reference subset and they can be used of course; however, it leave out all the other tex stuff: no other macro packages, less binaries, less fonts, etc Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ dev-context mailing list dev-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/dev-context
Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
Mojca Miklavec wrote: On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 7:45 PM, Norbert Preining wrote: But AFAIS, the whole context could in fact be omitted. As far as I see *everyone* using context also uses his home-grown installation etc ;-) - ConTeXt on MikTeX is completely/absolutely broken - TeX Live is outdated sure, but tex live always had a relative stable version of context and i'd like to keep that property - ConTeX/XeTeX on gwTeX is broken hm - LuaTeX doesn't work at all, anywhere (except for the Debian) i'm glad that norbert packages luatex/mkiv because it gives us a reference outside out own machines What else (apart from W32TeX) remains out there? commercial tex's Let's see how the new packaging in TeX Live is going to work ... :) :) :) don't worry, mkii will be in there anyway and i see no reason not to have mkiv in there too Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ dev-context mailing list dev-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/dev-context
Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
2008/5/23 Arthur Reutenauer [EMAIL PROTECTED]: To /tmp, but there is no $TMP or $TEMP defined anywhere. weird, maybe they use some apple name, like $WASTEBIN or $THRASH We already had that discussion: very few systems actually set TMP or TEMP (the first public releases of Mark IV used to assume it was set, and subsequently created luatex-cache in the current directory since it wasn't). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temporary_directory http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TMPDIR TMPDIR is the canonical Unix environment variable which points to user scratch space. Most Unix utilities will honor the setting of this variable and use its value to denote the scratch area for temporary files instead of the common default of /tmp. Other forms sometimes accepted are TEMP, TEMPDIR, and TMP but these are used more commonly by non-POSIX Operating systems. Best Martin ___ dev-context mailing list dev-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/dev-context
Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 7:27 PM, Arthur Reutenauer wrote: So, assuming /opt/tex/texmf-linux/bin, it attempts the following directories, in this order: [/opt/tex/texmf]/web2c% two parents up [/opt/tex/texmf-linux]/texmf/web2c% one parent up [/opt/tex]/texmf-local/web2c [/opt/tex/texmf-linux]/texmf-local/web2c Mac (gwtex, mactex) also uses texmf.local. (Well, also many others, but that one is most evident.) Thats's great! It works on my machine without the need to set any environment variable (I even tried two different arrangments of the directories). I have just tested it and it didn't work as expected. MK II: texexec --make --xtx --all TeXExec | using search method 'kpsewhich' TeXExec | updating file database mktexlsr: Updating /Users/mojca/context/tex/texmf/ls-R... mktexlsr: Updating /Users/mojca/context/tex/texmf-context/ls-R... mktexlsr: Updating /Users/mojca/context/tex/texmf-local/ls-R... mktexlsr: Done. TeXExec | using tex engine xetex TeXExec | using tex format path /Users/mojca/context/tex/texmf-context/web2c/xetex TeXExec | generating tex format cont-en This is XeTeX, Version 3.1415926-2.2-0.998.5-dev (Web2C 7.5.6) (INITEX) \write18 enabled. entering extended mode ... Beginning to dump on file metafun.mem (mem=metafun 2008.5.23) at most 3068 strings of total length 40865 49365 memory locations dumped; current usage is 1282236400 1788 symbolic tokens Transcript written on metafun.log. TeXExec | TeXExec | tex engine path: /Users/mojca/context/tex/texmf-context/web2c/xetex TeXExec | mps engine path: /Users/mojca/context/tex/texmf-context/web2c TeXExec | TeXExec | tex: 23/05/2008 02:05:17 /Users/mojca/context/tex/texmf-context/web2c/xetex/cont-en.fmt (4503548) TeXExec | tex: 23/05/2008 02:05:23 /Users/mojca/context/tex/texmf-context/web2c/xetex/cont-nl.fmt (4544450) TeXExec | tex: 23/05/2008 02:05:25 /Users/mojca/context/tex/texmf-context/web2c/xetex/mptopdf.fmt (1786949) TeXExec | mps: 23/05/2008 02:05:25 /Users/mojca/context/tex/texmf-context/web2c/metafun.mem (491080) TeXExec | TeXExec | runtime: 15.745237 (formats have always flied to texmf-osx-intel so far) But ... texexec --xtx a.tex TeXExec | processing document 'a.tex' TeXExec | no ctx file found TeXExec | tex processing method: context TeXExec | TeX run 1 TeXExec | writing option file a.top TeXExec | using randomseed 1213 TeXExec | tex engine: xetex TeXExec | tex format: cont-en This is XeTeX, Version 3.1415926-2.2-0.998.5-dev (Web2C 7.5.6) \write18 enabled. kpathsea: Running mktexfmt cont-en.fmt /usr/texbin/mktexfmt: line 336: /Users/mojca/context/tex/texmf/texconfig/tcfmgr: No such file or directory fmtutil: config file `fmtutil.cnf' not found. I can't find the format file `cont-en.fmt'! MK IV: context a.tex MtxRun | error unable to locate texmfcnf.lua MtxRun | loading configuration for /Users/mojca/context/tex/texmf/web2c from /Users/mojca/luatex-cache/context/bce2a35a5270714da084d11faf744f76/trees/71a1a190289e8fc90263c427daa9d235 MtxRun | locating list of /Users/mojca/context/tex/texmf-project MtxRun | locating list of /Users/mojca/context/tex/texmf-fonts MtxRun | locating list of /Users/mojca/context/tex/texmf-local MtxRun | locating list of /Users/mojca/context/tex/texmf-context MtxRun | locating list of /Users/mojca/context/tex/texmf-extra MtxRun | locating list of /Users/mojca/context/tex/texmf MtxRun | loading files for /Users/mojca/context/tex/texmf-local from /Users/mojca/luatex-cache/context/bce2a35a5270714da084d11faf744f76/trees/9cef58cec78e4ef962f7764cc0d0af77 MtxRun | loading files for /Users/mojca/context/tex/texmf-context from /Users/mojca/luatex-cache/context/bce2a35a5270714da084d11faf744f76/trees/05c539c10b6a70b446df0913d1c04b99 MtxRun | loading files for /Users/mojca/context/tex/texmf from /Users/mojca/luatex-cache/context/bce2a35a5270714da084d11faf744f76/trees/9cd0d756a20671533c8167942232650c MtxRun | using script: /Users/mojca/context/tex/texmf-context/scripts/context/lua/mtx-context.lua MtxRun | loading configuration for /Users/mojca/context/tex/texmf/web2c from /Users/mojca/luatex-cache/context/bce2a35a5270714da084d11faf744f76/trees/71a1a190289e8fc90263c427daa9d235 MtxRun | error no format found with name cont-en MtxRun | total runtime: 0.011 I definitely need to add texmfcnf.lua, but just a quick overview of non-working solutions :) Mojca ___ dev-context mailing list dev-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/dev-context
Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
Taco Hoekwater wrote:
Please note this implementation logic is not set in stone yet. We
preferred to start as simple as possible, but extensions may
be needed. (currently we have a works for me system). Keep in
mind that if your installation is really outlandish, you can just
set TEXMFCNF in the environment explicitly.
an additional note:
it is important to keep in mind that when you don't set TEXMFCNF and
TEXMF, ther eis a potential clash with existing tex installations; the
main reason for having setuptex in the minimals is that it permits many
parallel installations (users like taco and me often have many
'independent' istallations (for projects)
so, if the automatisms fail (i.e. you don't set TEXMF and TEXMFCNF
yourself and depend on luatools cum suis to figure out where the
configureations are) there is probably some interference with
environment variables; i.e. when you for instance install tetex (or when
the system came with it) you can be pretty sure that some variables are
set and cf tds/kpse environment variables take precedence); in that case
there is no way around overriding them at the shell level (as setuptex
does)
this also means that when you install the minimals allongside an
existing tex installation, you probably still need to use setuptex
All such files will be read before any of the texmf.cnfs, and
so they can be used to overrule texmf.cnf values, TEXMFCACHE in
particular. The lua script has to return a table. Mine
(I have only one) looks like this:
config = {}
config.TEXMFCACHE = /tmp
return config
there is an example contextcnf.lua file in the distribution that will
have the variables that we support in addition to the normal ones in
texmf.cnf (
Hans
-
Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
| www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
Duncan Hothersall wrote: only run the setuptex script in the shell in which you want to run ConTeXt. These environment variables aren't meant to be set globally (again, AFAIK), they are meant to be set for the session. To me this is what makes the minimals highly portable and easy to integrate into cross-platform scripts and applications. indeed, and for users who have multiple projects the minimals give them isolated installations; this is why there are texmf-fonts (for commercial fonts) and texmf-project paths as well: you install a minimal, and copy unique stuff to texmf-fonts and texmf-projects Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ dev-context mailing list dev-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/dev-context
Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
Oliver Buerschaper wrote: I was referring to setuptex.sh All scripts starting with setuptex have the same functionality: they set up all the needed environment variables I have seen the following, that only differ per platform: setuptex,setuptex.sh % unix bash shell setuptex.csh % unix csh shell setuptex.bat,setuptex.cmd % windows shell setuptex.tmf This one can be used by texmfstart if you run it with texmfstart --tree= and is only for advanced use. context.cnf this file is not used, ever. texmf.cnf This is read by mkii (in the normal way, via kathsea, as well as via texmfstart's file searching routines) and in mkiv by luatools when --generate is given on the command line (the rest of mkiv uses preprocessed data from the cache). As of this morning, we also have texmfcnf.lua that is always read by all of mkiv. environment variables These are set up by setuptex, but I assume you want to know what each does. Will you still care if they go away anyway? digging this information up though all the nooks and crannies of mkii is quite a bit of work. and how the information contained therein is accessed (if at all) by the different engines and scripts. More or less the same question again. How much of this do you really need to know? Because generally speaking, there are more sensible things to do than to document all thoses lines of code in a separate implementation manual. If you are curious about a few variables, can you please post which ones? Best wishes, Taco ___ dev-context mailing list dev-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/dev-context
Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
Oliver Buerschaper wrote: However, think of someone who has never heard of ConTeXt before but has been persuaded by a friend or colleague to give it a try. Perhaps they've been given a template document for a thesis to start from. If this person has a Mac they'll probably want to download some disk image, have ConTeXt deployed on their machine by the Apple installer program, fire up TeXShop and start writing their thesis with ConTeXt right away. This is what I'd consider the average user. With the current minimals this is impossible ... hm, i really had it up and running on the mac pretty fast in texshop but since my mac is permantly broken i cannot test it right now Well, you're an IT pro ... that makes all the difference ;-) i'm a complete mac-dummy so for me it was a matter of: - unzip a minimal - make sure that texshop intializes that tree btw, there will me a cross platform 'texshop' variant (tug funded project) and at some point we need to get context support in there Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ dev-context mailing list dev-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/dev-context
Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
Taco Hoekwater wrote: Taco Hoekwater wrote: So, assuming /opt/tex/texmf-linux/bin, it attempts the following directories, in this order: [/opt/tex]/texmf/web2c% two parents up [/opt/tex/texmf-linux]/texmf/web2c% one parent up [/opt/tex]/texmf-local/web2c [/opt/tex/texmf-linux]/texmf-local/web2c I forgot to mention that in this case it will also set the texmf.cnf implicit variable $SELFAUTOPARENT to the single value that is the found TDS root (e.g. /opt/tex). For Hans: it makes sense to do this if TEXMFCNF *is* set as well. i think that this happens already,since i donnot test for the non-set case - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ dev-context mailing list dev-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/dev-context
Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
So, assuming /opt/tex/texmf-linux/bin, it attempts the following directories, in this order: [/opt/tex/texmf]/web2c% two parents up [/opt/tex/texmf-linux]/texmf/web2c% one parent up [/opt/tex]/texmf-local/web2c [/opt/tex/texmf-linux]/texmf-local/web2c Thats's great! It works on my machine without the need to set any environment variable (I even tried two different arrangments of the directories). Arthur ___ dev-context mailing list dev-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/dev-context
Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
Arthur Reutenauer wrote: So, assuming /opt/tex/texmf-linux/bin, it attempts the following directories, in this order: [/opt/tex/texmf]/web2c% two parents up [/opt/tex/texmf-linux]/texmf/web2c% one parent up [/opt/tex]/texmf-local/web2c [/opt/tex/texmf-linux]/texmf-local/web2c Thats's great! It works on my machine without the need to set any environment variable (I even tried two different arrangments of the directories). well, you need to set the path i assume -) - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ dev-context mailing list dev-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/dev-context
Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
well, you need to set the path i assume -) Yes, sure :-) But it's much easier to control than all the variables set by setuptex. Now I can switch between the minimals and TeX Live by simply changing my PATH. Great! By the way, the rsync minimals have been updated, so it also works with them now. Arthur ___ dev-context mailing list dev-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/dev-context
Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
Arthur Reutenauer wrote: well, you need to set the path i assume -) Yes, sure :-) But it's much easier to control than all the variables set by setuptex. Now I can switch between the minimals and TeX Live by simply changing my PATH. Great! By the way, the rsync minimals have been updated, so it also works with them now. Be warned that this only affects mkiv for now. Last time I tried, texexec could not run without 4 or 5 variables (but admittedly that was quite a while ago, when it was still in perl). Best wishes, Taco ___ dev-context mailing list dev-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/dev-context
Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
hm, but that not much more keying than calling setuptex -) No, it's very different, because it's reversible: once you've sourced setuptex, there's no going back unless you unset dozens of variables. Up to now I had to use diiferent shells for TeX Live and the Minimals. and setuptex is then the only way to keep interference away Yes, that's definitely true. Arthur ___ dev-context mailing list dev-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/dev-context
Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
Hans and I are extending context in this area right now, so any current answer will likely be outdated before much longer. So, a little bit of extra patience is required still. I see. It's just that literally everything about ConTeXt is changing on a daily basis and almost every current answer about just any topic seems to be outdated within a fortnight. However, if you want user-friendly ConTeXt distributions to hit the main stage at some point you'll have to start somewhere. Refusing to explain the details because they're going to change anyway probably won't be the best idea ... On the other hand, if you want ConTeXt distributions to always remain almost exact replicas of Hans' machine (like the current minimals are), fine. But don't expect them to be widely usable. The average user doesn't have the knowhow required to happily juggle with dozens of configurations sitting side by side. Sorry for putting this bluntly but I feel something had to be said about this issue. I guess it won't do you any harm if you shared your plans about LuaTeX's configuration mechanism with us package developers ... thus we wouldn't have to reverse engineer every tiny bit. Oliver ___ dev-context mailing list dev-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/dev-context
Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
Oliver Buerschaper wrote: Hans and I are extending context in this area right now, so any current answer will likely be outdated before much longer. So, a little bit of extra patience is required still. I see. It's just that literally everything about ConTeXt is changing on a daily basis and almost every current answer about just any topic seems to be outdated within a fortnight. Well, what else do you expect from code that is in active development? Sorry, but this rant does not make a lot of sense. Context MKIV and Luatex are *not* production systems, and we do not claim they are. If you are unhappy with code that is in still moving fast, stick to MKII. MKII has been pretty stable for years now. I wrote that message yesterday to let you know that we are actively working to make the situation better. It quite a cold shower to get flamed for doing exactly that. Taco ___ dev-context mailing list dev-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/dev-context
Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
Hello Taco, I see. It's just that literally everything about ConTeXt is changing on a daily basis and almost every current answer about just any topic seems to be outdated within a fortnight. Well, what else do you expect from code that is in active development? Sorry, but this rant does not make a lot of sense. Context MKIV and Luatex are *not* production systems, and we do not claim they are. If you are unhappy with code that is in still moving fast, stick to MKII. MKII has been pretty stable for years now. I'm perfectly aware of the fact that MKIV isn't ready for prime time yet. Still I remember that from one MKII release to the next bugs kept creeping into the code that suddenly broke everything. Wrecked font handling in combination with XeTeX around the beginning of last year comes to my mind as just one of the topics people were having trouble with. From personal experience in the middle of a project at that time I also remember a few other problems with MKII ... besides I was having the impression that for each new MKII release that didn't solve a specific bug you'd have to adapt the original workaround. So compared to MKIV I certainly agree with you that MKII is pretty stable, but in comparison with other projects probably not stable enough for many users. In my opinion this is the very reason why that discussion about quality assurance and regression testing came up at all during the conference in Epen last March. And this is also why I made the comment about the ever changing ConTeXt. Additionally, from the point of view of a package developer I keep having the feeling that more often than not the reasons for certain changes are left in the dark rather than explained. For example, my understanding is that many Perl scripts have been superseded by Ruby scripts over time, still they're shipped with current MKII minimals. Unfortunately there's no documentation about whether they could actually be deleted or whether there are still some (rare) tasks they're needed for. And then they seem to access dozens of environment variables and configuration files so you have no clue about whether those are needed or not. You just have to know. Which I don't. When I was trying to put together a Mac installer for MKII a couple of months ago I kept hearing the same definitely maybes about this configuration data issue as the ones I'm facing now -- only at that time the game wasn't called LuaTeX. Not having had the time to reverse engineer everything I gave up then. Recently I had the chance to work on the Mac installer again and after some progress I got stuck at the very same vital point called configuration information and how it's accessed. I wrote that message yesterday to let you know that we are actively working to make the situation better. It quite a cold shower to get flamed for doing exactly that. Taco Admittedly, I phrased my comment rather provocatively ... if you feel offended personally I apologize. I appreciate very much what both you and Hans do. Otherwise I wouldn't use ConTeXt at all and even more certainly wouldn't be concerned with a Mac package for it. Still I find the current situation rather frustrating ... in fairness I think this is also quite understandable from the above. Anyway, for the moment I'll stay put and wait for the configuration mechanism to stabilize. Once that has happened I'd be delighted to get to know the details about how it works ... then the Mac installer could also enter the stage finally. Oliver ___ dev-context mailing list dev-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/dev-context
Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
On Mo, 19 Mai 2008, Mojca Miklavec wrote: Any ideas if getting rid of dependency on environmental variables is doable? And please also of that *stupid* user-specific luatex-cache. There must be a way to run-time merge a system-wide luatex-cache with a luatex-cache only for the user files. like mktexlsr. Please do NOT reinvent the wheel formed like a rectangle... see my other email. Best wishes Norbert --- Dr. Norbert Preining [EMAIL PROTECTED]Vienna University of Technology Debian Developer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Debian TeX Group gpg DSA: 0x09C5B094 fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76 A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094 --- The story goes that I first had the idea for THHGTTG while lying drunk in a field in Innsbruck (or `Spain' as the BBC TV publicity department authorititively has it, probably because it's easier to spell). --- Foreward by DNA. --- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy ___ dev-context mailing list dev-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/dev-context
Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
Mojca Miklavec wrote: On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 9:03 AM, Taco Hoekwater wrote: Norbert Preining wrote: Well not surprising ... there is NO context script anywhere in the distribution! Am I missing something? The script is: scripts/context/lua/mtx-context.lua If mtxrun cannot find it, something went wrong running luatools --generate It seems to me that this is actually a yet unanswered FAQ: - the thread about AucTeX on ntg-context dunno, i never used emacs - Oliver asked me about how to run LuaTeX without having to set any environmental variables except for PATH adjustment; that would make the mac installer much easier to cope with - in most TeX distributions, one simply puts texmf.cnf somewhere above the binary (selfautoparent trickery), and then everything works out of the box i've come to hate this autofoo trickery since there is no resl standard and whatever one cooks up eventually something else happens - similar question raised by Vyatcheslav for Windows it would ne no problem if we could be sure that the binary lives relative to the tree (same for cnf file) but there is no clear policy for this (for instance on linux a cnf file can live somewhere under etc too) - I often have problems in my editor; if I launch it from terminal with proper environmental variables set, then it works OK, but if I want to launch it from menu, then it sometimes works and sometimes not (some weird interference with the existing distribution, in most cases it just doesn't find the cont-en.fmt and stops there already) I just wanted to raise the question as it appears in just every installation of TeX where one wants to use ConTeXt with LuaTeX. As long as one runs source setuptex in minimals, or source ~/.luatex in Thomas' instructions of hard-coded paths then LuaTeX runs OK, but if one would like to run LuaTeX without explicitly setting environmental variables (problematic within TeX editors), one soon runs into problems. mtxrun --tree=pathtotree should work given that there is a setuptex.tmf file there Minimals contain texmf.cnf hidden somewhere in the tree. But even if I put in in the top folder, it doesn't help much. Hans also uses setuptex.tmf for reading settings with LuaTeX in some way, but again, it doesn't happen automatically. indeed, since there is no robust way to locate it Jonathan Kew also told me that it should be enough to have a proper version of texmf.cnf in the top folder, and then setting PATH to include binaries should be enough. LuaTeX now works on standalone ConTeXt installation for more than a year, but it would be nice to make it work on Debian, TeX Live, MikTeX (that will soon provide it) as well. Any ideas if getting rid of dependency on environmental variables is doable? i keep thinking about it but i'm not in the mood to implement a messy fuzzy logic solution thet eventually will bite us for instance, can you cook up a list of locations for each platform that is guaranteed correct? (no problem for the minimals probably) PS: ping [EMAIL PROTECTED] hm Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ dev-context mailing list dev-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/dev-context
Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
Norbert Preining wrote: Hi everyone, aehmmm, looks nice, but # let us see how the context wrapper looks like: $ cat /usr/bin/context #!/bin/sh mtxrun --script context $@ # now see what mtxrun does ... $ mtxrun --script context foobar MtxRun | unknown script: context $ Well not surprising ... there is NO context script anywhere in the distribution! Am I missing something? it's mtx-context.lua the --script looks for: (mtx-)context(s).lua in the current path or in the file database - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ dev-context mailing list dev-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/dev-context
Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
Oliver Buerschaper wrote: Any ideas if getting rid of dependency on environmental variables is doable? I agree it would be great if mtxrun could call/do setuptex on itself if needed. At the moment for me it would be enough to know where exactly LuaTeX looks for configuration information (path file name) and which files take precedence over others in the case of conflicts ... my current understanding is: 1. Environment variables 2. setuptex.tmf no, this one is only used when you run mtxrun --tree= i use this methos in web driven workflows where we can have multiple trees alongside (linux servers) and i never bother to setup my shell for that; i just call mtxrun then 3. texmf-context/web2c/context.cnf we ship context.cnfas an example of what is needed (it's the one on my machine) 4. texmf/web2c/texmf.cnf that one indeed unless it's in a usual place 5. ... $TEXMF $TEXMFCACHE (since there is no agreement over where it lives) so, only two variables As a second step, one would have to know what each of the settings in the above places is needed for. In particular, I would like to know which settings LuaTeX actually uses and which ones it ignores. But this can wait until the first question is figured out completely ;-) $TEXMF is needed in order to locate the configuration file (currently still a CNF file but we may as well get rid of it since we use less and less info from it; if we would organize the minimals differently i.e. more flat that tds we can do without a configuration, especially fonts are an issue (why no tex/fonts/data/vendor/collection) $TEXMFCACHE is needed because distributers want control over the place where those files go; there is some default setup but ... Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ dev-context mailing list dev-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/dev-context
Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
Norbert Preining wrote: On Mo, 19 Mai 2008, Mojca Miklavec wrote: Any ideas if getting rid of dependency on environmental variables is doable? And please also of that *stupid* user-specific luatex-cache. There must be a way to run-time merge a system-wide luatex-cache with a luatex-cache only for the user files. i'll look into that when i have time (keep in mind that mkiv/luate xis rather fresh and not finished) like mktexlsr. Please do NOT reinvent the wheel formed like a rectangle... see my other email. actually, i *wanted* to get rid of mktexlsr cum suis ... for several reasons (1) more control (2) different file daabase models (at some point running from one zip file) (3) more speed (4) less platform issues kind trying to convert a square wheel to an elipse (much in tds/kpse is driven by 20 year old file systems and systems, kind of steam engine while now we have electricity) although it will not be noticeable in public distributions i want to support flatter file systems too (i.e. all files for a font in one path and so) but that should not bother you (hopefully) Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ dev-context mailing list dev-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/dev-context
Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
Hi Hans, On Mo, 19 Mai 2008, Hans Hagen wrote: Again, you should definitely implement some level of global setup possibility!!! you mean shared for users? Yes. keep in mind that i hav eno experience with multi user systems (ok, long What we actually need, and that is the same for TeX Live and for all distributions (at least inmy imagination), is: - one (or several) system wide luatex cache thingies - one per user (if the user wants to) - a way to update the cache for specific trees only (luatools --system-only ...) - and the adaption of the lua functions that the different caches are merged at loading time, the later (user) taking precedence over the former. That would already be some big step forward. come on, we do care, but it's a moving train ... ;-) Let me sometimes get rid of some frustration ;-))) It does not happen often anyway. Best wishes Norbert --- Dr. Norbert Preining [EMAIL PROTECTED]Vienna University of Technology Debian Developer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Debian TeX Group gpg DSA: 0x09C5B094 fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76 A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094 --- PEN-TRE-TAFARN-Y-FEDW (n.) Welsh word which literally translates as 'leaking-biro-by-the-glass-hole-of-the-clerk-of-the-bank-has-been- -taken-to-another-place-leaving-only-the-special-inkwell-and-three- -inches-of-tin-chain'. --- Douglas Adams, The Meaning of Liff ___ dev-context mailing list dev-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/dev-context
Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
What we actually need, and that is the same for TeX Live and for all distributions (at least inmy imagination), is: - one (or several) system wide luatex cache thingies - one per user (if the user wants to) - a way to update the cache for specific trees only (luatools --system-only ...) - and the adaption of the lua functions that the different caches are merged at loading time, the later (user) taking precedence over the former. That would already be some big step forward. come on, we do care, but it's a moving train ... ;-) Let me sometimes get rid of some frustration ;-))) It does not happen often anyway. I really wonder how (if at all) LuaTeX is going to work on MikTeX ... :) ConTeXt is broken there already, and ConTeXt is the only tool that really benefits from LuaTeX (apart from some of your tools on TL). The new search capabilities are likely to break the MikTeX's auto-install functionality as well if nobody will push Hans to fix it (or implement it himself). Mojca ___ dev-context mailing list dev-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/dev-context
Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
I really wonder how (if at all) LuaTeX is going to work on MikTeX ... :) ConTeXt is broken there already, and ConTeXt is the only tool that really benefits from LuaTeX (apart from some of your tools on TL). The new search capabilities are likely to break the MikTeX's auto-install functionality as well if nobody will push Hans to fix it (or implement it himself). I meant to say: it's really great that you are putting so much effort to make LuaTeX work on non-ConTeXt-devoted installation. Without you, we would probably not see it present on TeX Live at least for the next year :) Thanks a lot for that! Mojca ___ dev-context mailing list dev-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/dev-context
Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
Mojca Miklavec wrote: What we actually need, and that is the same for TeX Live and for all distributions (at least inmy imagination), is: - one (or several) system wide luatex cache thingies - one per user (if the user wants to) - a way to update the cache for specific trees only (luatools --system-only ...) - and the adaption of the lua functions that the different caches are merged at loading time, the later (user) taking precedence over the former. That would already be some big step forward. come on, we do care, but it's a moving train ... ;-) Let me sometimes get rid of some frustration ;-))) It does not happen often anyway. I really wonder how (if at all) LuaTeX is going to work on MikTeX ... :) ConTeXt is broken there already, and ConTeXt is the only tool that really benefits from LuaTeX (apart from some of your tools on TL). The new search capabilities are likely to break the MikTeX's auto-install functionality as well if nobody will push Hans to fix it (or implement it himself). mixtex is another issue mostly because it uses a diferent approach; we had it working so at some point it will work again; probably not soon for luatex/mkiv but that's experimental anyway i simply have no capacity to run everything here (e.g. in order to set up a proper windows vm for testing i need additional windows licences which i don't have Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ dev-context mailing list dev-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/dev-context
Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
On Mo, 19 Mai 2008, Hans Hagen wrote: for that to happen we need to define what system is and what is user in a pretty consistent and cross platform way (and not in the tetex n*m permutations way) system: TEXMFDIST TEXMFMAIN TEXMFLOCAL TEXMFSYSCONFIG TEXMFSYSVAR user: TEXMFHOME TEXMFVAR TEXMFCONFIG THat is how TL2008 will work on *ALL* supported platforms, including windows. TEXMFHOME = ~/texmf where ~ - $HOME on unix ~ - %USERPROFILE% on win32 etc Yes, till TL2007 we didn't have the distinction of SYS - non-SYS on windows. But TL2008 will have exactely the same approach on all platforms, including the same scripts (updmap-sys vs updmap, ...) Best wishes Norbert --- Dr. Norbert Preining [EMAIL PROTECTED]Vienna University of Technology Debian Developer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Debian TeX Group gpg DSA: 0x09C5B094 fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76 A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094 --- MAVIS ENDERBY (n.) The almost-completely-forgotten girlfriend from your distant past for whom your wife has a completely irrational jealousy and hatred. --- Douglas Adams, The Meaning of Liff ___ dev-context mailing list dev-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/dev-context
Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
On Mo, 19 Mai 2008, Hans Hagen wrote: system: TEXMFDIST TEXMFMAIN TEXMFLOCAL TEXMFSYSCONFIG TEXMFSYSVAR i suppose that this is the order in $TEXMF in tex live then No no no, that was the order in which the stuff came to my mind!!! just wondering ... how is a system wide update taking place (since local comes last) ... is the policy now wipe out and install anew), if so, why still local? update in TeX Live will happen simply by removing a sub-package and re-adding it, so the files will go normally to TEXMFDIST. But that depends on what is in the package. I don't understand with wipe out and install anew!? Yes, up to TL2007 every installation was practically a new one. With 2008 we will have the ability to install updated package and also other packages over the net into an already present installation. For you and Taco it might be interesting that if you want you can even set up some local repository and tell people to do: tlmgr -location www.pragme-ade.nl/context-tl update which will update the context package as shipped with TL to the one shipped from your server. Best wishes Norbert --- Dr. Norbert Preining [EMAIL PROTECTED]Vienna University of Technology Debian Developer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Debian TeX Group gpg DSA: 0x09C5B094 fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76 A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094 --- `That young girl is one of the least benightedly unintelligent organic life forms it has been my profound lack of pleasure not to be able to avoid meeting.' --- Marvin's first ever compliment about anybody. --- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy ___ dev-context mailing list dev-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/dev-context
Re: [dev-context] context program, mtxrun question?
At the moment for me it would be enough to know where exactly LuaTeX looks for configuration information (path file name) and which files take precedence over others in the case of conflicts ... my current understanding is: 1. Environment variables 2. setuptex.tmf no, this one is only used when you run mtxrun --tree= i use this methos in web driven workflows where we can have multiple trees alongside (linux servers) and i never bother to setup my shell for that; i just call mtxrun then OK, just to confirm, the file setuptex.tmf at the top level of a set of tex trees is *only* ever evaluated by mtxrun. In turn, if I never intend to run mtxrun --tree=... I can safely delete this file. (A quick grep shows that the file setuptex.tmf also seems to be used by runtools.rb and texmfstart.rb for the same purpose but since these scripts are obsolete for LuaTeX this can be ignored). 3. texmf-context/web2c/context.cnf we ship context.cnfas an example of what is needed (it's the one on my machine) In other words, deleting context.cnf from texmf-context/web2c/ makes no difference whatsoever for LuaTeX? 4. texmf/web2c/texmf.cnf that one indeed unless it's in a usual place OK, again just to be sure: the file texmf/web2c/texmf.cnf (exactly in this location) is the central configuration file for LuaTeX (and actually the only one needed after deleting the ones mentioned above). However, without the environment variable $TEXMF LuaTeX won't be able to find it and will give up. Now if $TEXMF is set LuaTeX will search all the trees specified there in the given order until it finds the file at anytexmf/web2c/ texmf.cnf. What if the file texmf.cnf is in a different location within $TEXMF? Will LuaTeX still find it? As a second step, one would have to know what each of the settings in the above places is needed for. In particular, I would like to know which settings LuaTeX actually uses and which ones it ignores. But this can wait until the first question is figured out completely ;-) $TEXMF is needed in order to locate the configuration file Why does LuaTeX need an environment variable for that? Both pdftex and xetex in the minimal distribution run flawlessly without any variable set. Besides TeXLive 2007 doesn't need that either. Why can't there be a default location where LuaTeX looks for its configuration file (be it texmf.cnf or something else)? (currently still a CNF file but we may as well get rid of it since we use less and less info from it; This is what I actually wanted to know in the second step ... which info from texmf.cnf is used by LuaTeX and what is ignored? What aspects of LuaTeX are configured by each single line? Furthermore, which info is mandatory and what is optional? if we would organize the minimals differently i.e. more flat that tds we can do without a configuration, especially fonts are an issue (why no tex/fonts/data/vendor/collection) I don't understand. $TEXMFCACHE is needed because distributers want control over the place where those files go; there is some default setup but ... Yes, unless $TEXMFCACHE is set, LuaTeX uses $HOME/luatex-cache. Can the cache path also be set in the file texmf.cnf? Best, Oliver ___ dev-context mailing list dev-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/dev-context
