Re: F36 Change: Retired Packages (Self-Contained Change proposal)
Dne 07. 10. 21 v 17:45 Ben Cotton napsal(a): https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/RetiredPackages == Summary == Easy the task of removing packages, which were retired and no longer receives updates. Updates: The change has been approved by FESCO. The subpackage `remove-retired-packages` is in rawhide now. It has two binaries (scripts to be precise): /usr/sbin/remove-retired-packages - this the main part of this change. /usr/sbin/fedora-remove-old-gpg-keys - removes GPG keys of EOLed Fedora's from your rpmdb. Not part of this change, but I spin it off from fedora-upgrade(8) and I put it in into this package. Feedback is welcomed. If there will be no issue I plan to backport it to F35 just after branching of F36, because this will be part of fedora-upgrade(8) and upgrades are tricky because features of F-N needs to be actually put into F-N-1. Updated package for current Fedoras can be used from my Copr project: dnf copr enable msuchy/remove-retired-packages Miroslav ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: F36 Change: Retired Packages (Self-Contained Change proposal)
On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 09:10:44AM +0200, Miroslav Suchý wrote: > Dne 11. 10. 21 v 20:14 Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek napsal(a): > >>Nothing is broken **now**. But it very often broke N+1 or N+2 > >>upgrade. I remember some package broken N+5 upgrade. And then you > >>(or some co-maintainer) hesitated to add it to > >>fedora-obsolete-packages because "it is too old".:) > >That's why we should keep packages in f-o-p for much longer than we > >currently do. There was just a thread about Jiri upgrading from F22 > >to a recent release. That procedure would have been made easier if > >f-o-p had more packages. > > +1, but... It does not solve the problem that users want to have two-speed > line for package removal. > > You want to remove *all* packages which are retired and blocks the upgrade. > That is what f-o-p does. > > And you *may* want to remove *some* packages that are retired. That is what > remove-retired-package does. > > You removes package for which you have replacement or you do not use > them. But you want to keep packages which you use and there is not > functional replacement for them. Hopefully for transition period. Yeah, remove-retired-packages would provide functionality that we currently don't have. But for the part where you *need* to remove uninstallable packages, f-o-p is a better solution (and it's already there, so no need to reimplement it.) Zbyszek ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: F36 Change: Retired Packages (Self-Contained Change proposal)
Dne 11. 10. 21 v 20:14 Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek napsal(a): Nothing is broken **now**. But it very often broke N+1 or N+2 upgrade. I remember some package broken N+5 upgrade. And then you (or some co-maintainer) hesitated to add it to fedora-obsolete-packages because "it is too old".:) That's why we should keep packages in f-o-p for much longer than we currently do. There was just a thread about Jiri upgrading from F22 to a recent release. That procedure would have been made easier if f-o-p had more packages. +1, but... It does not solve the problem that users want to have two-speed line for package removal. You want to remove *all* packages which are retired and blocks the upgrade. That is what f-o-p does. And you *may* want to remove *some* packages that are retired. That is what remove-retired-package does. You removes package for which you have replacement or you do not use them. But you want to keep packages which you use and there is not functional replacement for them. Hopefully for transition period. Miroslav ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: F36 Change: Retired Packages (Self-Contained Change proposal)
On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 09:55:05PM +0200, Miro Hrončok wrote: > On 11. 10. 21 21:41, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > >On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 08:17:36PM +0200, Miro Hrončok wrote: > >>On 11. 10. 21 20:14, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > >>>On Fri, Oct 08, 2021 at 08:21:51AM +0200, Miroslav Suchý wrote: > Dne 07. 10. 21 v 18:23 Miro Hrončok napsal(a): > >When are you supposed to run remove-retired-packages? > After the upgrade. > > > >If you run remove-retired-packages after the upgrade, you already > >managed to upgrade and nothing is broken, no? > > > Nothing is broken **now**. But it very often broke N+1 or N+2 > upgrade. I remember some package broken N+5 upgrade. And then you > (or some co-maintainer) hesitated to add it to > fedora-obsolete-packages because "it is too old". :) > >>> > >>>That's why we should keep packages in f-o-p for much longer than we > >>>currently do. There was just a thread about Jiri upgrading from F22 > >>>to a recent release. That procedure would have been made easier if > >>>f-o-p had more packages. > >>> > >>>What exactly is the rationale for constantly trimming the list in f-o-p? > >> > >>It is a huge mess to maintain. > > > >Hmm, I still don't get it. It's just a list that you append to at the end. > >Old entries don't need to be touched at all. > > The list is super huge and provenpackagers add stuff to the middle > of it or create duplicate entries. I've seen that happening even > when it's starting to get huge before the cleanup. The first issue should be fixed by better documentation. The second issue can be fixed by a test. I'd be happy to submit a PR if that'd help. Zbyszek ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: F36 Change: Retired Packages (Self-Contained Change proposal)
On 11. 10. 21 21:41, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 08:17:36PM +0200, Miro Hrončok wrote: On 11. 10. 21 20:14, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: On Fri, Oct 08, 2021 at 08:21:51AM +0200, Miroslav Suchý wrote: Dne 07. 10. 21 v 18:23 Miro Hrončok napsal(a): When are you supposed to run remove-retired-packages? After the upgrade. If you run remove-retired-packages after the upgrade, you already managed to upgrade and nothing is broken, no? Nothing is broken **now**. But it very often broke N+1 or N+2 upgrade. I remember some package broken N+5 upgrade. And then you (or some co-maintainer) hesitated to add it to fedora-obsolete-packages because "it is too old". :) That's why we should keep packages in f-o-p for much longer than we currently do. There was just a thread about Jiri upgrading from F22 to a recent release. That procedure would have been made easier if f-o-p had more packages. What exactly is the rationale for constantly trimming the list in f-o-p? It is a huge mess to maintain. Hmm, I still don't get it. It's just a list that you append to at the end. Old entries don't need to be touched at all. The list is super huge and provenpackagers add stuff to the middle of it or create duplicate entries. I've seen that happening even when it's starting to get huge before the cleanup. -- Miro Hrončok -- Phone: +420777974800 IRC: mhroncok ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: F36 Change: Retired Packages (Self-Contained Change proposal)
On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 08:17:36PM +0200, Miro Hrončok wrote: > On 11. 10. 21 20:14, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > >On Fri, Oct 08, 2021 at 08:21:51AM +0200, Miroslav Suchý wrote: > >>Dne 07. 10. 21 v 18:23 Miro Hrončok napsal(a): > >>>When are you supposed to run remove-retired-packages? > >>After the upgrade. > >>> > >>>If you run remove-retired-packages after the upgrade, you already > >>>managed to upgrade and nothing is broken, no? > >> > >> > >>Nothing is broken **now**. But it very often broke N+1 or N+2 > >>upgrade. I remember some package broken N+5 upgrade. And then you > >>(or some co-maintainer) hesitated to add it to > >>fedora-obsolete-packages because "it is too old". :) > > > >That's why we should keep packages in f-o-p for much longer than we > >currently do. There was just a thread about Jiri upgrading from F22 > >to a recent release. That procedure would have been made easier if > >f-o-p had more packages. > > > >What exactly is the rationale for constantly trimming the list in f-o-p? > > It is a huge mess to maintain. Hmm, I still don't get it. It's just a list that you append to at the end. Old entries don't need to be touched at all. Zbyszek ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: F36 Change: Retired Packages (Self-Contained Change proposal)
On 11. 10. 21 20:14, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: On Fri, Oct 08, 2021 at 08:21:51AM +0200, Miroslav Suchý wrote: Dne 07. 10. 21 v 18:23 Miro Hrončok napsal(a): When are you supposed to run remove-retired-packages? After the upgrade. If you run remove-retired-packages after the upgrade, you already managed to upgrade and nothing is broken, no? Nothing is broken **now**. But it very often broke N+1 or N+2 upgrade. I remember some package broken N+5 upgrade. And then you (or some co-maintainer) hesitated to add it to fedora-obsolete-packages because "it is too old". :) That's why we should keep packages in f-o-p for much longer than we currently do. There was just a thread about Jiri upgrading from F22 to a recent release. That procedure would have been made easier if f-o-p had more packages. What exactly is the rationale for constantly trimming the list in f-o-p? It is a huge mess to maintain. -- Miro Hrončok -- Phone: +420777974800 IRC: mhroncok ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: F36 Change: Retired Packages (Self-Contained Change proposal)
On Fri, Oct 08, 2021 at 08:21:51AM +0200, Miroslav Suchý wrote: > Dne 07. 10. 21 v 18:23 Miro Hrončok napsal(a): > >When are you supposed to run remove-retired-packages? > After the upgrade. > > > >If you run remove-retired-packages after the upgrade, you already > >managed to upgrade and nothing is broken, no? > > > Nothing is broken **now**. But it very often broke N+1 or N+2 > upgrade. I remember some package broken N+5 upgrade. And then you > (or some co-maintainer) hesitated to add it to > fedora-obsolete-packages because "it is too old". :) That's why we should keep packages in f-o-p for much longer than we currently do. There was just a thread about Jiri upgrading from F22 to a recent release. That procedure would have been made easier if f-o-p had more packages. What exactly is the rationale for constantly trimming the list in f-o-p? Zbyszek ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: F36 Change: Retired Packages (Self-Contained Change proposal)
Vitaly Zaitsev via devel writes: > On 07/10/2021 17:45, Ben Cotton wrote: >> Subpackage `remove-retired-packages` has been created (subpackage of >> `fedora-upgrade`). > > I suggest integrating this functionality into dnf as a plugin. > > Example: > sudo dnf clean-retired --releasever=32 This sounds like a great idea! Would it be possible to have this distro agnostic, so that dnf users who are not running Fedora could leverage this plugin? Cheers, Dan ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: F36 Change: Retired Packages (Self-Contained Change proposal)
Dne 07. 10. 21 v 18:23 Miro Hrončok napsal(a): When are you supposed to run remove-retired-packages? After the upgrade. If you run remove-retired-packages after the upgrade, you already managed to upgrade and nothing is broken, no? Nothing is broken **now**. But it very often broke N+1 or N+2 upgrade. I remember some package broken N+5 upgrade. And then you (or some co-maintainer) hesitated to add it to fedora-obsolete-packages because "it is too old". :) Miroslav ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: F36 Change: Retired Packages (Self-Contained Change proposal)
On Thu, Oct 07, 2021 at 18:23:00 +0200, Miro Hrončok wrote: On 07. 10. 21 17:45, Ben Cotton wrote: * We suggest users to remove packages that are no longer maintained and may contain security vulnerabilities. This makes perfect sense. * We make sure that archaic packages do not break upgrade between two versions of Fedora. When are you supposed to run remove-retired-packages? If you run remove-retired-packages after the upgrade, you already managed to upgrade and nothing is broken, no? If the upgrade was done with distro-sync with deletes allowed, then the upgrade would have removed blocking packages. If just upgrade was used then the retired packages might have blocked upgrading some packages. Instead of checking retired packages, people might be better off running dnf list --extras to get a list of installed packages that aren't in any current repo they are using. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: F36 Change: Retired Packages (Self-Contained Change proposal)
On 07. 10. 21 17:45, Ben Cotton wrote: * We suggest users to remove packages that are no longer maintained and may contain security vulnerabilities. This makes perfect sense. * We make sure that archaic packages do not break upgrade between two versions of Fedora. When are you supposed to run remove-retired-packages? If you run remove-retired-packages after the upgrade, you already managed to upgrade and nothing is broken, no? If you run remove-retired-packages before the upgrade, it might remove something that will be correctly obsoleted and provided by a replacement package that offers the same functionality under a different package name. -- Miro Hrončok -- Phone: +420777974800 IRC: mhroncok ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
F36 Change: Retired Packages (Self-Contained Change proposal)
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/RetiredPackages == Summary == Easy the task of removing packages, which were retired and no longer receives updates. == Owner == * Name: [[User:msuchy| Miroslav Suchý]] * Email: msu...@redhat.com == Detailed Description == This follows the [[Changes/Fedora-Retired-Packages]] which was withdrawn. This time I provide a script `remove-retired-packages` (presented in the package of the same name) which identifies packages retired between N-1 and current (N) version. Alternatively, user can run: remove-retired-packages 32 which will look for packages between Fedora Linux 32 and the current version. The packages are suggested to be removed one by one, which allows the admin to skip the package and keep it on their machine despite being retired. Part of this proposal is to change [https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/quick-docs/dnf-system-upgrade/#sect-optional-post-upgrade-tasks the documentation for the upgrade]. == Feedback == See [[Changes/Fedora-Retired-Packages#Feedback original feedback page]] [https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/de...@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/XQMUSHK7HX65LQUJBFDNY47YPMCPI5MG/#XQMUSHK7HX65LQUJBFDNY47YPMCPI5MG Discussion] on devel mailing list prior this proposal. == Benefit to Fedora == * We suggest users to remove packages that are no longer maintained and may contain security vulnerabilities. * We make sure that archaic packages do not break upgrade between two versions of Fedora. == Scope == * Proposal owners: Subpackage `remove-retired-packages` has been created (subpackage of `fedora-upgrade`). * Other developers: N/A (not needed for this Change) * Release engineering: N/A (not needed for this Change) * Policies and guidelines: N/A (not needed for this Change) Edit of https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/quick-docs/dnf-system-upgrade/#sect-optional-post-upgrade-tasks - will be done after approval from FESCO. * Trademark approval: N/A (not needed for this Change) * Alignment with Objectives: N/A == Upgrade/compatibility impact == Packages that are no longer maintained are removed during a distribution upgrade. == Dependencies == None. == Contingency Plan == * Contingency mechanism: (What to do? Who will do it?) N/A (not a System Wide Change) * Contingency deadline: N/A (not a System Wide Change) * Blocks release? N/A == Documentation == N/A (not a System Wide Change) == Release Notes == TBD -- Ben Cotton He / Him / His Fedora Program Manager Red Hat TZ=America/Indiana/Indianapolis ___ devel-announce mailing list -- devel-announce@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-announce-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel-announce@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: F36 Change: Retired Packages (Self-Contained Change proposal)
On 07/10/2021 17:45, Ben Cotton wrote: Subpackage `remove-retired-packages` has been created (subpackage of `fedora-upgrade`). I suggest integrating this functionality into dnf as a plugin. Example: sudo dnf clean-retired --releasever=32 -- Sincerely, Vitaly Zaitsev (vit...@easycoding.org) ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
F36 Change: Retired Packages (Self-Contained Change proposal)
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/RetiredPackages == Summary == Easy the task of removing packages, which were retired and no longer receives updates. == Owner == * Name: [[User:msuchy| Miroslav Suchý]] * Email: msu...@redhat.com == Detailed Description == This follows the [[Changes/Fedora-Retired-Packages]] which was withdrawn. This time I provide a script `remove-retired-packages` (presented in the package of the same name) which identifies packages retired between N-1 and current (N) version. Alternatively, user can run: remove-retired-packages 32 which will look for packages between Fedora Linux 32 and the current version. The packages are suggested to be removed one by one, which allows the admin to skip the package and keep it on their machine despite being retired. Part of this proposal is to change [https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/quick-docs/dnf-system-upgrade/#sect-optional-post-upgrade-tasks the documentation for the upgrade]. == Feedback == See [[Changes/Fedora-Retired-Packages#Feedback original feedback page]] [https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/XQMUSHK7HX65LQUJBFDNY47YPMCPI5MG/#XQMUSHK7HX65LQUJBFDNY47YPMCPI5MG Discussion] on devel mailing list prior this proposal. == Benefit to Fedora == * We suggest users to remove packages that are no longer maintained and may contain security vulnerabilities. * We make sure that archaic packages do not break upgrade between two versions of Fedora. == Scope == * Proposal owners: Subpackage `remove-retired-packages` has been created (subpackage of `fedora-upgrade`). * Other developers: N/A (not needed for this Change) * Release engineering: N/A (not needed for this Change) * Policies and guidelines: N/A (not needed for this Change) Edit of https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/quick-docs/dnf-system-upgrade/#sect-optional-post-upgrade-tasks - will be done after approval from FESCO. * Trademark approval: N/A (not needed for this Change) * Alignment with Objectives: N/A == Upgrade/compatibility impact == Packages that are no longer maintained are removed during a distribution upgrade. == Dependencies == None. == Contingency Plan == * Contingency mechanism: (What to do? Who will do it?) N/A (not a System Wide Change) * Contingency deadline: N/A (not a System Wide Change) * Blocks release? N/A == Documentation == N/A (not a System Wide Change) == Release Notes == TBD -- Ben Cotton He / Him / His Fedora Program Manager Red Hat TZ=America/Indiana/Indianapolis ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
