Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Jan Kurik]

The Change owner [1] has decided to cancel this Change proposal. I am
leaving the FESCo ticket [2] opened to make sure FESCo has noticed
this decision.

[1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Jsilhan
[2] https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1578#comment:7

Regards,
Jan

On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 3:35 PM, Stephen C. Tweedie <s...@redhat.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Thu, 2016-05-19 at 21:57 +0200, Alec Leamas wrote:
>> On 19/05/16 21:26, Neal Gompa wrote:
>> >
>> > On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 11:42 AM, John Florian <john.florian@dart.b
>> > iz> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > > > From: Alec Leamas [mailto:leamas.a...@gmail.com]
>> > > > Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2016 09:39
>> > > > To: devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
>> > > > Subject: Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as
>> > > > default
>> > > > reposdir
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > I have yet to see the arguments why this really must be
>> > > > renamed. Of
>> > > > course, there are better names than /etc/yum.repos.d. But does
>> > > > the
>> > > > benefits of a better name really motivate the cost of change in
>> > > > this
>> > > > case? Really?
>> > > >
>> > > > In other words, as Mathieu Bridon pointed out, the "Benefit to
>> > > > Fedora"
>> > > > part of the change just isn't very convincing.
>> > > I totally agree -- I too have yet to see why it should be renamed
>> > > at all.  My point was merely that, if for some reason this does
>> > > go forward (justified or not), it would be disappointing if this
>> > > were to break the efforts of vendors that have been trying to
>> > > cooperate in a reasonable manner.
>> > >
>> > The proposal has been revised to preserve compatibility with
>> > /etc/yum.repos.d while supporting the new default directory.
>> >
>> Which is nice. However, the main point is  that to motivate all the
>> obvious hassles related to the directory renaming  a better "Benefit for
>> Fedora" section is needed  - IMHO the current one just doesn't motivate
>> this change, the cons outweighs the pros.
>
> Agreed; adding a new directory may offer some level of backwards
> compatible but still breaks forwards compatibility and also breaks
> tools that want to scan or manage repository files.  And it adds
> complexity to admins who now need to look at and manage multiple
> locations.
>
> I still think the cost outweighs the benefit here.
>
> --Stephen
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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Stephen C. Tweedie]

Hi,

On Thu, 2016-05-19 at 21:57 +0200, Alec Leamas wrote:
> On 19/05/16 21:26, Neal Gompa wrote:
> > 
> > On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 11:42 AM, John Florian <john.florian@dart.b
> > iz> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > From: Alec Leamas [mailto:leamas.a...@gmail.com]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2016 09:39
> > > > To: devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
> > > > Subject: Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as
> > > > default
> > > > reposdir
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > I have yet to see the arguments why this really must be
> > > > renamed. Of
> > > > course, there are better names than /etc/yum.repos.d. But does
> > > > the
> > > > benefits of a better name really motivate the cost of change in
> > > > this
> > > > case? Really?
> > > > 
> > > > In other words, as Mathieu Bridon pointed out, the "Benefit to
> > > > Fedora"
> > > > part of the change just isn't very convincing.
> > > I totally agree -- I too have yet to see why it should be renamed
> > > at all.  My point was merely that, if for some reason this does
> > > go forward (justified or not), it would be disappointing if this
> > > were to break the efforts of vendors that have been trying to
> > > cooperate in a reasonable manner.
> > > 
> > The proposal has been revised to preserve compatibility with
> > /etc/yum.repos.d while supporting the new default directory.
> > 
> Which is nice. However, the main point is  that to motivate all the
> obvious hassles related to the directory renaming  a better "Benefit for 
> Fedora" section is needed  - IMHO the current one just doesn't motivate 
> this change, the cons outweighs the pros.

Agreed; adding a new directory may offer some level of backwards
compatible but still breaks forwards compatibility and also breaks
tools that want to scan or manage repository files.  And it adds
complexity to admins who now need to look at and manage multiple
locations.

I still think the cost outweighs the benefit here.

--Stephen
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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Stephen C. Tweedie]

Hi,

On Wed, 2016-05-18 at 11:10 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Fri, 2016-05-13 at 15:19 +0200, Petr Spacek wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > +1
> > 
> > The Change Page did not even try to weight pros and cons. IMHO cons
> > (as
> > described above) are worse that living with original name, which is
> > well-known, well-documented, and relied on.
> Another +1 here. I think the name should stay. Changing it brings no
> significant benefits but will certainly break stuff, and render huge
> amounts of existing information obsolete.

[Chiming in late here, I was traveling all last week...]

Agreed.  Breaking compatibility should need a strong technical reason,
not just trying to change an association with a package name.  This
will risks breaking tooling and will make it harder to eg. maintain
package portability across Centos and Fedora.

Let's just chalk the /etc/yum.repos.d name as a historical fact at this
point, and live with it --- there's plenty in the distro that we might
change if we were trying to invent a new, perfect solution, but that we
keep anyway for compatibility's sake.

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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Ben Breard]

Hey guys,

I'm working with Jan & Honza on the RHEL side of the house. Currently we're 
slated to keep yum as the primary name/command for package management in RHEL. 
It may or may not be backed by dnf at some point; we're still looking at the 
pros & cons and how to bring better compatibility if we go down this path.

My preference is to keep yum.repos.d. 
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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Alec Leamas]

On 19/05/16 21:26, Neal Gompa wrote:

On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 11:42 AM, John Florian <john.flor...@dart.biz> wrote:

From: Alec Leamas [mailto:leamas.a...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2016 09:39
To: devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Subject: Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default
reposdir


I have yet to see the arguments why this really must be renamed. Of
course, there are better names than /etc/yum.repos.d. But does the
benefits of a better name really motivate the cost of change in this
case? Really?

In other words, as Mathieu Bridon pointed out, the "Benefit to Fedora"
part of the change just isn't very convincing.

I totally agree -- I too have yet to see why it should be renamed at all.  My 
point was merely that, if for some reason this does go forward (justified or 
not), it would be disappointing if this were to break the efforts of vendors 
that have been trying to cooperate in a reasonable manner.


The proposal has been revised to preserve compatibility with
/etc/yum.repos.d while supporting the new default directory.


Which is nice. However, the main point is  that to motivate all the 
obvious hassles related to the directory renaming  a better "Benefit for 
Fedora" section is needed  - IMHO the current one just doesn't motivate 
this change, the cons outweighs the pros.


Cheers!

--alec
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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Neal Gompa]

On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 11:42 AM, John Florian <john.flor...@dart.biz> wrote:
>> From: Alec Leamas [mailto:leamas.a...@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2016 09:39
>> To: devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
>> Subject: Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default
>> reposdir
>>
>>
>>
>> On 19/05/16 15:16, John Florian wrote:
>> >> From: Jonathan Wakely [mailto:jwak...@fedoraproject.org]
>> >> Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2016 15:15
>> >>
>> >> Another +1 here. There are plenty of software vendors (e.g. Google and
>> >> Adobe, to name two people might have heard of) that provide the option
>> of
>> >> installing their software via an RPM, which installs a .repo file into
>> >> /etc/yum.repos.d. That's cool, well done software vendors, we should
>> >> applaud them, not break their stuff, or force them to provide one RPM
>> >> for Fedora and another for RHEL+CentOS etc.
>> > Yes, please don't break their goodwill.  If this must be renamed,
>> backwards compatibility is a must IMHO.
>>
>> I have yet to see the arguments why this really must be renamed. Of
>> course, there are better names than /etc/yum.repos.d. But does the
>> benefits of a better name really motivate the cost of change in this
>> case? Really?
>>
>> In other words, as Mathieu Bridon pointed out, the "Benefit to Fedora"
>> part of the change just isn't very convincing.
>
> I totally agree -- I too have yet to see why it should be renamed at all.  My 
> point was merely that, if for some reason this does go forward (justified or 
> not), it would be disappointing if this were to break the efforts of vendors 
> that have been trying to cooperate in a reasonable manner.
>

The proposal has been revised to preserve compatibility with
/etc/yum.repos.d while supporting the new default directory.


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RE: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[John Florian]

> From: Alec Leamas [mailto:leamas.a...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2016 09:39
> To: devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
> Subject: Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default
> reposdir
> 
> 
> 
> On 19/05/16 15:16, John Florian wrote:
> >> From: Jonathan Wakely [mailto:jwak...@fedoraproject.org]
> >> Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2016 15:15
> >>
> >> Another +1 here. There are plenty of software vendors (e.g. Google and
> >> Adobe, to name two people might have heard of) that provide the option
> of
> >> installing their software via an RPM, which installs a .repo file into
> >> /etc/yum.repos.d. That's cool, well done software vendors, we should
> >> applaud them, not break their stuff, or force them to provide one RPM
> >> for Fedora and another for RHEL+CentOS etc.
> > Yes, please don't break their goodwill.  If this must be renamed,
> backwards compatibility is a must IMHO.
> 
> I have yet to see the arguments why this really must be renamed. Of
> course, there are better names than /etc/yum.repos.d. But does the
> benefits of a better name really motivate the cost of change in this
> case? Really?
> 
> In other words, as Mathieu Bridon pointed out, the "Benefit to Fedora"
> part of the change just isn't very convincing.

I totally agree -- I too have yet to see why it should be renamed at all.  My 
point was merely that, if for some reason this does go forward (justified or 
not), it would be disappointing if this were to break the efforts of vendors 
that have been trying to cooperate in a reasonable manner.

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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Marian Csontos]

On 05/18/2016 09:38 PM, Adam Williamson wrote:

On Wed, 2016-05-18 at 15:02 -0400, Chuck Anderson wrote:

On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 11:10:57AM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:

On Fri, 2016-05-13 at 15:19 +0200, Petr Spacek wrote:


+1

The Change Page did not even try to weight pros and cons. IMHO cons (as
described above) are worse that living with original name, which is
well-known, well-documented, and relied on.


Another +1 here. I think the name should stay. Changing it brings no
significant benefits but will certainly break stuff, and render huge
amounts of existing information obsolete.


I happen to agree, but that argument was lost on the yum -> dnf
rename.


No it wasn't. There are many precedents for keeping some things after a
rename where changing them would be too destructive, and we even have a
perfectly good rationale that's already been cited in this thread: the
repository metadata format is still the same one originally defined by
yum and could still be referred to as the 'yum repository format'.


...and could still be used by yum on older fedoras (or RHEL-7/CentOS-7), 
if someone had an use case for that.


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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Alec Leamas]

On 19/05/16 15:16, John Florian wrote:

From: Jonathan Wakely [mailto:jwak...@fedoraproject.org]
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2016 15:15

Another +1 here. There are plenty of software vendors (e.g. Google and
Adobe, to name two people might have heard of) that provide the option of
installing their software via an RPM, which installs a .repo file into
/etc/yum.repos.d. That's cool, well done software vendors, we should
applaud them, not break their stuff, or force them to provide one RPM
for Fedora and another for RHEL+CentOS etc.

Yes, please don't break their goodwill.  If this must be renamed, backwards 
compatibility is a must IMHO.


I have yet to see the arguments why this really must be renamed. Of 
course, there are better names than /etc/yum.repos.d. But does the 
benefits of a better name really motivate the cost of change in this 
case? Really?


In other words, as Mathieu Bridon pointed out, the "Benefit to Fedora" 
part of the change just isn't very convincing.


Just my 5 öre,

--alec

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RE: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[John Florian]

> From: Jonathan Wakely [mailto:jwak...@fedoraproject.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2016 15:15
> 
> Another +1 here. There are plenty of software vendors (e.g. Google and
> Adobe, to name two people might have heard of) that provide the option of
> installing their software via an RPM, which installs a .repo file into
> /etc/yum.repos.d. That's cool, well done software vendors, we should
> applaud them, not break their stuff, or force them to provide one RPM
> for Fedora and another for RHEL+CentOS etc.

Yes, please don't break their goodwill.  If this must be renamed, backwards 
compatibility is a must IMHO.  I really don't want to have to return to the 
days of me personally polling upstream to see if there's an update available 
when tooling can do much more easily and better than I.

I'll mention two more vendors from which I've leveraged their yum repo config's 
via a simple rpm install: PostgreSQL and Puppet.  (Yes, these are wholly/partly 
in Fedora, but sometimes you still must go upstream.)

--
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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Chuck Anderson]

On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 12:38:37PM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Wed, 2016-05-18 at 15:02 -0400, Chuck Anderson wrote:
> > On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 11:10:57AM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
> > > On Fri, 2016-05-13 at 15:19 +0200, Petr Spacek wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > +1
> > > > 
> > > > The Change Page did not even try to weight pros and cons. IMHO cons (as
> > > > described above) are worse that living with original name, which is
> > > > well-known, well-documented, and relied on.
> > > 
> > > Another +1 here. I think the name should stay. Changing it brings no
> > > significant benefits but will certainly break stuff, and render huge
> > > amounts of existing information obsolete.
> > 
> > I happen to agree, but that argument was lost on the yum -> dnf
> > rename.
> 
> No it wasn't. There are many precedents for keeping some things after a
> rename where changing them would be too destructive, and we even have a
> perfectly good rationale that's already been cited in this thread: the
> repository metadata format is still the same one originally defined by
> yum and could still be referred to as the 'yum repository format'.

I believe we are in agreement about the present change under
discussion (don't change things needlessly).  My point was that we (as
a project) couldn't agree to keep the CLI command named "yum" for the
same reasons.  Maybe over time that will become true if/when "yum"
stops warning people to change to "dnf".
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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Adam Williamson]

On Wed, 2016-05-18 at 15:02 -0400, Chuck Anderson wrote:
> On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 11:10:57AM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
> > On Fri, 2016-05-13 at 15:19 +0200, Petr Spacek wrote:
> > > 
> > > +1
> > > 
> > > The Change Page did not even try to weight pros and cons. IMHO cons (as
> > > described above) are worse that living with original name, which is
> > > well-known, well-documented, and relied on.
> > 
> > Another +1 here. I think the name should stay. Changing it brings no
> > significant benefits but will certainly break stuff, and render huge
> > amounts of existing information obsolete.
> 
> I happen to agree, but that argument was lost on the yum -> dnf
> rename.

No it wasn't. There are many precedents for keeping some things after a
rename where changing them would be too destructive, and we even have a
perfectly good rationale that's already been cited in this thread: the
repository metadata format is still the same one originally defined by
yum and could still be referred to as the 'yum repository format'.
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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Colin Walters]

On Wed, May 18, 2016, at 03:06 PM, Subhendu Ghosh wrote:
> Is ostree  remotes in scope?
 
ostree has /etc/ostree/remotes.d today...the only thing I can think of
here is that there are certainly use cases for having some common
configuration between yum repos and ostree remotes - things like TLS
client certificates.
 
But I think that's something we could address in rpm-ostree (e.g. have
some settings for an ostree remote automatically derive from a yum repo,
or vice versa).
 
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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Jonathan Wakely]

On 18/05/16 15:02 -0400, Chuck Anderson wrote:

On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 11:10:57AM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:

On Fri, 2016-05-13 at 15:19 +0200, Petr Spacek wrote:
>
> +1
>
> The Change Page did not even try to weight pros and cons. IMHO cons (as
> described above) are worse that living with original name, which is
> well-known, well-documented, and relied on.

Another +1 here. I think the name should stay. Changing it brings no
significant benefits but will certainly break stuff, and render huge
amounts of existing information obsolete.


I happen to agree, but that argument was lost on the yum -> dnf
rename.


I'm still hoping sanity will prevail and once Yum's deprecation period
ends and it goes away, "yum" will become an alias for "dnf".

i.e. you can always use "yum", it's just for a while you'll get
annoying warnings, and the precise syntax will change between Yum v1
and Yum v2 (aka DNF).

We're managing a Python2 -> Python3 transition without printing
"Warning, Python2 is obsolete, see 'man py2py3' for details."
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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Jonathan Wakely]

On 18/05/16 11:10 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:

On Fri, 2016-05-13 at 15:19 +0200, Petr Spacek wrote:


+1

The Change Page did not even try to weight pros and cons. IMHO cons (as
described above) are worse that living with original name, which is
well-known, well-documented, and relied on.


Another +1 here. I think the name should stay. Changing it brings no
significant benefits but will certainly break stuff, and render huge
amounts of existing information obsolete.


Another +1 here. There are plenty of software vendors (e.g. Google and
Adobe, to name two people might have heard of) that provide the option of
installing their software via an RPM, which installs a .repo file into
/etc/yum.repos.d. That's cool, well done software vendors, we should
applaud them, not break their stuff, or force them to provide one RPM
for Fedora and another for RHEL+CentOS etc.

The repo format comes from Yum, so yum.repos.d is fine, even if other
tools can read the same format.
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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Subhendu Ghosh]

Is ostree  remotes in scope?
On May 12, 2016 03:37, "Jan Kurik"  wrote:

> = Proposed System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir
> =
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/ReposInEtcDistroReposD
>
> Change owner(s):
> * Neal Gompa 
> * Jan Silhan 
>
>
> == Detailed Description ==
> For DNF 2.0 in Fedora 25, the DNF team would like to make the default
> repository configuration directory /etc/distro.repos.d. In contrast to
> /etc/yum.repos.d (current default path), /etc/distro.repos.d path is a
> package manager agnostic name and less misleading. The configuration
> files are currently used by DNF, PackageKit, and Yum. The proposed
> location more accurately reflects the nature of the repositories, and
> also implies that other tools can look there for repository
> information. Note: current default repository configuration directory
> /etc/yum.repos.d will still be supported by package managers but
> /etc/distro.repos.d would be preferred default path.
>
>
> == Scope ==
> * Proposal owners:
> DNF already supports /etc/distro.repos.d, but it should be set as default.
> Yum will need to use the new path by default while supporting the current
> one.
>
> * Other developers:
> PackageKit's Hif backend will need to use the new path by default
> while supporting the current one.
> fedora-repos and fedora-workstation-repositories will need to change
> to the new path.
>
>
> * Release engineering: N/A
> List of deliverables: N/A (Not needed for this Change)
>
> * Policies and guidelines:
> Packages containing repository configuration will need to change to
> store repo files in /etc/distro.repos.d.
>
> * Trademark approval: N/A (not needed for this Change)
> --
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> Platform & Fedora Program Manager
> Red Hat Czech s.r.o., Purkynova 99/71, 612 45 Brno, Czech Republic
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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Chuck Anderson]

On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 11:10:57AM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Fri, 2016-05-13 at 15:19 +0200, Petr Spacek wrote:
> > 
> > +1
> > 
> > The Change Page did not even try to weight pros and cons. IMHO cons (as
> > described above) are worse that living with original name, which is
> > well-known, well-documented, and relied on.
> 
> Another +1 here. I think the name should stay. Changing it brings no
> significant benefits but will certainly break stuff, and render huge
> amounts of existing information obsolete.

I happen to agree, but that argument was lost on the yum -> dnf
rename.
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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Adam Williamson]

On Fri, 2016-05-13 at 15:19 +0200, Petr Spacek wrote:
> 
> +1
> 
> The Change Page did not even try to weight pros and cons. IMHO cons (as
> described above) are worse that living with original name, which is
> well-known, well-documented, and relied on.

Another +1 here. I think the name should stay. Changing it brings no
significant benefits but will certainly break stuff, and render huge
amounts of existing information obsolete.
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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Roberto Ragusa]

On 05/17/2016 04:48 PM, Lukas Zapletal wrote:

> Sure. I always find annoying when there are two entities:
> 
> something.conf
> something.d/
> 
> so in order to expend the directory, I need to tab twice. I hope there
> will be no repos.conf :-)

Right.
Wouldn't have been better to go with the following?

something.conf.d/something.conf [base conf file, handled by something.rpm]
something.conf.d/*.conf [additional files, handled by other rpms or 
manually]

In this way the rule would have been "if you do not see something.conf,
it is actually inside something.conf.d", and expansion would be very 
straightforward.

Regards.
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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Jóhann B . Guðmundsson]

On 05/17/2016 04:32 PM, Till Maas wrote:

Your argument sounds like yum.repos.d would be the best name for the
repo definitions that are recognised by the yum parser and other
implementations for this format.


More accurate and more distro agnostic would be system like rpm or npm etc >.repos.d or >.repos.d not package management like yum, dnf, zypper etc could all 
use that repository directory if that would be the case


repos.d is to generic.

It's going to be interesting to see if fesco will be consistent in their 
previous decision making or Red Hat NIH software of zypper will get the 
special Red Hat corporate treatment from them.


JBG

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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Neal Gompa]

On Tue, May 17, 2016 at 12:32 PM, Till Maas  wrote:
> On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 08:58:18PM -0400, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
>> On 05/12/2016 07:46 PM, Neal Gompa wrote:
>
>> > Nothing says that in the future, we couldn't handle other kinds.
>> > Fundamentally, libsolv can process rpm-md/yum, susetags/yast2, hdlist2
>> > (mdk), and helix repos. And those are just the RPM repo formats.
>> > libsolv can handle deb/apt, arch repos, and Haiku repos. We don't
>> > really care too much about stuff other than rpm-md for now, but I
>> > don't see why that couldn't change in the future.
>>
>> Even if we could, I don't think it would be a good idea to have a single
>> drop-directory for all of them. That's introducing too much complexity on the
>> behalf of the tools that have to parse them.
>>
>> So I think we should keep the directory limited to files that share a parser.
>> I'm strongly in favor of the "rpm.repos.d" proposal, FWIW. (I agree that
>
> Your argument sounds like yum.repos.d would be the best name for the
> repo definitions that are recognised by the yum parser and other
> implementations for this format. Unless you still want to bundle
> different repo definitions for different parsers in one directory.
>
> Regards
> Till

If we followed the logic of calling them by parsers, we'd call it
/etc/solv.repos.d, since libsolv is the parser and it handles
different types of repodata.



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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Till Maas]

On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 08:58:18PM -0400, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
> On 05/12/2016 07:46 PM, Neal Gompa wrote:

> > Nothing says that in the future, we couldn't handle other kinds.
> > Fundamentally, libsolv can process rpm-md/yum, susetags/yast2, hdlist2
> > (mdk), and helix repos. And those are just the RPM repo formats.
> > libsolv can handle deb/apt, arch repos, and Haiku repos. We don't
> > really care too much about stuff other than rpm-md for now, but I
> > don't see why that couldn't change in the future.
> 
> Even if we could, I don't think it would be a good idea to have a single
> drop-directory for all of them. That's introducing too much complexity on the
> behalf of the tools that have to parse them.
> 
> So I think we should keep the directory limited to files that share a parser.
> I'm strongly in favor of the "rpm.repos.d" proposal, FWIW. (I agree that

Your argument sounds like yum.repos.d would be the best name for the
repo definitions that are recognised by the yum parser and other
implementations for this format. Unless you still want to bundle
different repo definitions for different parsers in one directory.

Regards
Till
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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Jóhann B . Guðmundsson]

On 05/17/2016 02:48 PM, Lukas Zapletal wrote:

With a symlink /etc/yum.repos.d to it.


And for other type repository's
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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Lukas Zapletal]

> >> /etc/repos.d is less typing.

Yes, please!

With a symlink /etc/yum.repos.d to it.

> The .d suffix is a meaningful distinction. It denotes a drop-in directory 
> (where
> anything placed in it is meant to be automatically picked up and used, 
> assuming
> it is in the correct format).

Sure. I always find annoying when there are two entities:

something.conf
something.d/

so in order to expend the directory, I need to tab twice. I hope there
will be no repos.conf :-)

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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Jóhann B . Guðmundsson]

On 05/17/2016 02:14 PM, Honza Šilhan wrote:

there are a lot of good suggestions about the path name in the discussion.
`/etc/distro.repos.d` probably wasn't the best chosen path so we've changed
it to `/etc/repos.d` in the proposal. Moreover I've mentioned there possible 
path name
alternatives like /etc/software.repos.d, /etc/vendors.repos.d, /etc/rpm.repos.d,
/etc/rpm-md.repos.d, /etc/system.repos.d. The type of the metadata format could
be defined by `type` option in the file itself like Suse does so we don't need
to have any specifier before `repos.d`.



You do realize that if you are going the "too generic route of repos.d" 
and change it to /usr/lib/repos.d ( as opposed to /usr/lib/rpm.repos.d ) 
then you need to add distinction in file name ending that might be used 
( - .conf ) or use a sub directory within that 
directory like repos.d/rpm which would contain foo.repo or something 
similar or have all package manager to use the same configuration file 
format for all package managers ( rpm,maven, npm, rubygems etc ) that 
migt end up using that "too generic" repos.d directory directly.


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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Honza Šilhan]

> From: "Ted W." <ted-li...@xy0.org>
> 
> I'll jump on the /etc/repos.d bandwagon. It follows a convention
> commonly found in lots of other configuration directories and I feel
> it's much more concise and clear than /etc/distro.repos.d.
> 
> I'm not sure I fully understand the rationale behind using
> distros.repos.d as the directory name in the first place. Distros, in
> the Linux context, suggest something fairly well defined; variants of
> the Linux based operating systems. To stick with the the original
> justification:
> 
>  > [...] /etc/distro.repos.d path is a
> package manager agnostic name [...]
> 
> I would think something called /etc/software.repos.d or
> /etc/vendors.repos.d would make more sense if you really want to keep
> the foo.bar.d convention.
> 
> On 05/16/2016 04:59 AM, Miroslav Suchý wrote:
> > Dne 12.5.2016 v 17:51 Mike Chambers napsal(a):
> >> Hell, if really want to make it simple, why not just /etc/repos.d?
> >
> > +1

Hi,

there are a lot of good suggestions about the path name in the discussion.
`/etc/distro.repos.d` probably wasn't the best chosen path so we've changed
it to `/etc/repos.d` in the proposal. Moreover I've mentioned there possible 
path name
alternatives like /etc/software.repos.d, /etc/vendors.repos.d, /etc/rpm.repos.d,
/etc/rpm-md.repos.d, /etc/system.repos.d. The type of the metadata format could
be defined by `type` option in the file itself like Suse does so we don't need
to have any specifier before `repos.d`.


> From: "Dennis Gilmore" <den...@ausil.us>
> 
> As others have mentioned I do not think that distro.repos.d is not really
> appropriate. I also suspect that the idea of putting them in /usr/lib/
> somewhere and allowing local overriding py dropping snippets in /etc/ will be
> a lot fo work to yum adding new features that we probably do not want to do.
> 
> rpm.repos.d may be the best name if we grow to support maven, npm, rubygems,
> etc repos  they could use .repos.d for consistency

`/etc/rpm.repos.d` - indicate it's a directory with configuration files to
rpm package so `/etc/rpm-md.repos.d` would be IMO preferable.


> From: "Remi Collet" <fed...@famillecollet.com>
> To: devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
> Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 1:00:09 PM
> Subject: Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default 
> reposdir
> 
> Le 12/05/2016 à 09:36, Jan Kurik a écrit :
> > = Proposed System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir
> > =
> > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/ReposInEtcDistroReposD
> 
> 
> Perhaps the 1st goal should be
> "have compatible configuration files for yum and dnf".
> 
> For memory this is not true
> 
> - "includepkgs" for yum doesn't work with dnf
> - "include" for dnf breaks yum.

This will be compatible with yum again in DNF-2.0. Some of the yum options,
PK and DNF does not currently understand though.


Honza
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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Ted W.]

I'll jump on the /etc/repos.d bandwagon. It follows a convention 
commonly found in lots of other configuration directories and I feel 
it's much more concise and clear than /etc/distro.repos.d.


I'm not sure I fully understand the rationale behind using 
distros.repos.d as the directory name in the first place. Distros, in 
the Linux context, suggest something fairly well defined; variants of 
the Linux based operating systems. To stick with the the original 
justification:


> [...] /etc/distro.repos.d path is a
package manager agnostic name [...]

I would think something called /etc/software.repos.d or 
/etc/vendors.repos.d would make more sense if you really want to keep 
the foo.bar.d convention.


 -Ted

On 05/16/2016 04:59 AM, Miroslav Suchý wrote:

Dne 12.5.2016 v 17:51 Mike Chambers napsal(a):

Hell, if really want to make it simple, why not just /etc/repos.d?


+1


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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Miroslav Suchý]

Dne 12.5.2016 v 17:51 Mike Chambers napsal(a):
> Hell, if really want to make it simple, why not just /etc/repos.d?

+1

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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Petr Spacek]

On 13.5.2016 15:01, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
> On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 7:00 AM, Remi Collet  wrote:
>> Le 12/05/2016 à 09:36, Jan Kurik a écrit :
>>> = Proposed System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir =
>>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/ReposInEtcDistroReposD
>>
>>
>> Perhaps the 1st goal should be
>> "have compatible configuration files for yum and dnf".
>>
>> For memory this is not true
>>
>> - "includepkgs" for yum doesn't work with dnf
>> - "include" for dnf breaks yum.
> 
> The "disto" name is horrible. Many repositories are third party or
> local. Unless you want to start supporeting "/etc/distro.repos.d",
> "/etc/local.repos.d", and "/etc/vendor.repos.d" to all run together,
> then distro is the wrong name for it. And splitting up the yum/dnf
> configs to separate directories would be begging for pain.
> 
> This change is also likely to break almost every third party
> repository management tool in existence unless "/etc/yum.repos.d" and
> "/etc/[myunemployedscriptkiddienewrepotool].d/" are forced into
> identical behavior, probably by a symlink.  This includes
> epel-release, rpmforge-release, the apache-community-mysql
> repositories, etc., etc., etc.
> 
> Would the new name remove one line of existing code or make anything
> faster or more stable? I think not. It's an esthetic change with no
> actual performance benefit. Even dropping in a symlink to
> /etc/yum.repos.d is as potentially confusing as the
> "/etc/{init.d,rc0,d,rc1,d,etc}" symlinks to
> "/etc/rc.d/{init.d,rc0.d,rc1,d,etc}." for SysV init scirpt locations
> was. And it would encourage the sort of randomization of default path
> to the .repo files that we saw for SysV init scripts, which could get
> pretty confusing.

+1

The Change Page did not even try to weight pros and cons. IMHO cons (as
described above) are worse that living with original name, which is
well-known, well-documented, and relied on.

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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Nico Kadel-Garcia]

On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 7:00 AM, Remi Collet  wrote:
> Le 12/05/2016 à 09:36, Jan Kurik a écrit :
>> = Proposed System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir =
>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/ReposInEtcDistroReposD
>
>
> Perhaps the 1st goal should be
> "have compatible configuration files for yum and dnf".
>
> For memory this is not true
>
> - "includepkgs" for yum doesn't work with dnf
> - "include" for dnf breaks yum.

The "disto" name is horrible. Many repositories are third party or
local. Unless you want to start supporeting "/etc/distro.repos.d",
"/etc/local.repos.d", and "/etc/vendor.repos.d" to all run together,
then distro is the wrong name for it. And splitting up the yum/dnf
configs to separate directories would be begging for pain.

This change is also likely to break almost every third party
repository management tool in existence unless "/etc/yum.repos.d" and
"/etc/[myunemployedscriptkiddienewrepotool].d/" are forced into
identical behavior, probably by a symlink.  This includes
epel-release, rpmforge-release, the apache-community-mysql
repositories, etc., etc., etc.

Would the new name remove one line of existing code or make anything
faster or more stable? I think not. It's an esthetic change with no
actual performance benefit. Even dropping in a symlink to
/etc/yum.repos.d is as potentially confusing as the
"/etc/{init.d,rc0,d,rc1,d,etc}" symlinks to
"/etc/rc.d/{init.d,rc0.d,rc1,d,etc}." for SysV init scirpt locations
was. And it would encourage the sort of randomization of default path
to the .repo files that we saw for SysV init scripts, which could get
pretty confusing.
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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Remi Collet]

Le 12/05/2016 à 09:36, Jan Kurik a écrit :
> = Proposed System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir =
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/ReposInEtcDistroReposD


Perhaps the 1st goal should be
"have compatible configuration files for yum and dnf".

For memory this is not true

- "includepkgs" for yum doesn't work with dnf
- "include" for dnf breaks yum.





Remi.
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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Neal Gompa]

On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 10:25 PM, Bernardo Sulzbach
 wrote:
> On 05/12/2016 09:58 PM, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
>>
>>
>> Even if we could, I don't think it would be a good idea to have a single
>> drop-directory for all of them. That's introducing too much complexity on
>> the
>> behalf of the tools that have to parse them.
>>
>
> I believe that this is the best point against a one size fits all solution
> for this. Although it is nicer to say that ALL are in one directory and ONLY
> one directory; doing so would require tools to work around this.
>

Well, openSUSE's Zypper already can do this. It uses *.repo files that
can point to those repositories and the additional parameter "type="
is set in the file to indicate what type of RPM repository it is.
Zypper uses the same fundamental stack DNF does, so I see no reason
that in the future *something* may offer it in Fedora.



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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Bernardo Sulzbach]

On 05/12/2016 09:58 PM, Stephen Gallagher wrote:


Even if we could, I don't think it would be a good idea to have a single
drop-directory for all of them. That's introducing too much complexity on the
behalf of the tools that have to parse them.



I believe that this is the best point against a one size fits all 
solution for this. Although it is nicer to say that ALL are in one 
directory and ONLY one directory; doing so would require tools to work 
around this.

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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Neal Gompa]

On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 8:58 PM, Stephen Gallagher  wrote:
> On 05/12/2016 07:46 PM, Neal Gompa wrote:
>> On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 5:29 PM, Orion Poplawski  wrote:
>>> On 05/12/2016 07:14 AM, Parag Nemade wrote:

 I will suggest /etc/package.repos.d that way we can be more neutral in
 having repos directory using various different packaging formats.

 Regards,
 Parag.
>>>
>>> But we're not neutral, are we?  These tools currently only handle "yum" 
>>> style
>>> repositories of rpm packages.
>>>
>>
>> Nothing says that in the future, we couldn't handle other kinds.
>> Fundamentally, libsolv can process rpm-md/yum, susetags/yast2, hdlist2
>> (mdk), and helix repos. And those are just the RPM repo formats.
>> libsolv can handle deb/apt, arch repos, and Haiku repos. We don't
>> really care too much about stuff other than rpm-md for now, but I
>> don't see why that couldn't change in the future.
>
> Even if we could, I don't think it would be a good idea to have a single
> drop-directory for all of them. That's introducing too much complexity on the
> behalf of the tools that have to parse them.
>
> So I think we should keep the directory limited to files that share a parser.
> I'm strongly in favor of the "rpm.repos.d" proposal, FWIW. (I agree that
> "distro.repos.d" is a misnomer, particularly since we will be supporting
> third-party repositories).
>

For what it's worth, I like "/etc/rpm.repos.d" as well. :)


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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Stephen Gallagher]

On 05/12/2016 07:46 PM, Neal Gompa wrote:
> On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 5:29 PM, Orion Poplawski  wrote:
>> On 05/12/2016 07:14 AM, Parag Nemade wrote:
>>>
>>> I will suggest /etc/package.repos.d that way we can be more neutral in
>>> having repos directory using various different packaging formats.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Parag.
>>
>> But we're not neutral, are we?  These tools currently only handle "yum" style
>> repositories of rpm packages.
>>
> 
> Nothing says that in the future, we couldn't handle other kinds.
> Fundamentally, libsolv can process rpm-md/yum, susetags/yast2, hdlist2
> (mdk), and helix repos. And those are just the RPM repo formats.
> libsolv can handle deb/apt, arch repos, and Haiku repos. We don't
> really care too much about stuff other than rpm-md for now, but I
> don't see why that couldn't change in the future.

Even if we could, I don't think it would be a good idea to have a single
drop-directory for all of them. That's introducing too much complexity on the
behalf of the tools that have to parse them.

So I think we should keep the directory limited to files that share a parser.
I'm strongly in favor of the "rpm.repos.d" proposal, FWIW. (I agree that
"distro.repos.d" is a misnomer, particularly since we will be supporting
third-party repositories).




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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Neal Gompa]

On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 5:29 PM, Orion Poplawski  wrote:
> On 05/12/2016 07:14 AM, Parag Nemade wrote:
>>
>> I will suggest /etc/package.repos.d that way we can be more neutral in
>> having repos directory using various different packaging formats.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Parag.
>
> But we're not neutral, are we?  These tools currently only handle "yum" style
> repositories of rpm packages.
>

Nothing says that in the future, we couldn't handle other kinds.
Fundamentally, libsolv can process rpm-md/yum, susetags/yast2, hdlist2
(mdk), and helix repos. And those are just the RPM repo formats.
libsolv can handle deb/apt, arch repos, and Haiku repos. We don't
really care too much about stuff other than rpm-md for now, but I
don't see why that couldn't change in the future.



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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Orion Poplawski]

On 05/12/2016 07:14 AM, Parag Nemade wrote:
> 
> I will suggest /etc/package.repos.d that way we can be more neutral in
> having repos directory using various different packaging formats.
> 
> Regards,
> Parag.

But we're not neutral, are we?  These tools currently only handle "yum" style
repositories of rpm packages.

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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[DJ Delorie]

Tomasz Torcz  writes:
>   Shouldn't that be /usr/lib/distro.repos.d (for distribution-provided

-1

Having such a small amount of information spread all over the filesystem
only makes things harder to manage.  Keeping it in one place means the
whole "where am I getting stuff" question can be answered with one "ls"
without having to ensure that X other directories are empty or
non-conflicting.  Having one directory also means there is no confusion
about search order or override rules.

Fedora is already complicated enough without adding this, and spreading
out the information solves no actual problems.

I'm also going to +1 the suggestion for /etc/repos.d
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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Avram Lubkin]

On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 8:47 AM, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson 
wrote:

>
>
> On 05/12/2016 08:07 AM, Tomasz Torcz wrote:
>
>> On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 09:36:32AM +0200, Jan Kurik wrote:
>>
>>> = Proposed System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default
>>> reposdir =
>>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/ReposInEtcDistroReposD
>>>
>>> Change owner(s):
>>> * Neal Gompa 
>>> * Jan Silhan 
>>>
>>>
>>> == Detailed Description ==
>>> For DNF 2.0 in Fedora 25, the DNF team would like to make the default
>>> repository configuration directory /etc/distro.repos.d. In contrast to
>>> /etc/yum.repos.d (current default path), /etc/distro.repos.d path is a
>>> package manager agnostic name and less misleading. The configuration
>>> files are currently used by DNF, PackageKit, and Yum. The proposed
>>> location more accurately reflects the nature of the repositories, and
>>> also implies that other tools can look there for repository
>>> information. Note: current default repository configuration directory
>>> /etc/yum.repos.d will still be supported by package managers but
>>> /etc/distro.repos.d would be preferred default path.
>>>
>>Shouldn't that be /usr/lib/distro.repos.d (for distribution-provided
>> data) with usual rules for overriding/masking in /etc/distro.repos.d (for
>> local administrator)?
>>
>>
> More like /usr/lib/rpm.repos.d to be generic, distro and 3rd party
> agnostic but yeah this should reside there these days . . .
>
> JBG
>


I like rpm.repos.d since that is accurate to what type of repo it is and
leaves the door open for other types of repos to follow the convention. I
would argue the correct place is /etc/rpm.repos.d since it is not data but
rather config information. If the enable argument was specified outside of
the repo information, then I could see the repo information being
considered data, but as it is, the appropriate place seems, /etc/rpm.repos.d

As far as anything more generic, like packages.repos.d or disto.repos.d, I
think that would only be appropriate if the file suffix was changed from
.repo to .rpm so any other potential repo types could be stored there. But
that opens the door to which package owns the directory and that directory
already gets cluttered, so it's best to keep them separate.
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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Stephen Gallagher]

On 05/12/2016 11:52 AM, Mike Chambers wrote:
> On Thu, 2016-05-12 at 13:57 +0100, Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
>> /etc/repos.d is less typing.
> 
> +1
> 
> Or better yet, just /etc/repos? 
> 

The .d suffix is a meaningful distinction. It denotes a drop-in directory (where
anything placed in it is meant to be automatically picked up and used, assuming
it is in the correct format).



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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Mike Chambers]

On Thu, 2016-05-12 at 13:57 +0100, Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
> /etc/repos.d is less typing.

+1

Or better yet, just /etc/repos? 

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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Mike Chambers]

On Thu, 2016-05-12 at 16:27 +0300, Panu Matilainen wrote:
> On 05/12/2016 11:07 AM, Tomasz Torcz wrote:
> > 
> > On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 09:36:32AM +0200, Jan Kurik wrote:
> > > 
> > > = Proposed System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default
> > > reposdir =
> > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/ReposInEtcDistroReposD
> > > 
> > > 
> 
> Why not just /etc/system.repos.d?

Hell, if really want to make it simple, why not just /etc/repos.d?  Or
better yet, just /etc/repos/?

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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Panu Matilainen]

On 05/12/2016 11:07 AM, Tomasz Torcz wrote:

On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 09:36:32AM +0200, Jan Kurik wrote:

= Proposed System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir =
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/ReposInEtcDistroReposD

Change owner(s):
* Neal Gompa 
* Jan Silhan 


== Detailed Description ==
For DNF 2.0 in Fedora 25, the DNF team would like to make the default
repository configuration directory /etc/distro.repos.d. In contrast to
/etc/yum.repos.d (current default path), /etc/distro.repos.d path is a
package manager agnostic name and less misleading. The configuration
files are currently used by DNF, PackageKit, and Yum. The proposed
location more accurately reflects the nature of the repositories, and
also implies that other tools can look there for repository
information. Note: current default repository configuration directory
/etc/yum.repos.d will still be supported by package managers but
/etc/distro.repos.d would be preferred default path.


  Shouldn't that be /usr/lib/distro.repos.d (for distribution-provided
data) with usual rules for overriding/masking in /etc/distro.repos.d (for
local administrator)?


The "distro" part is just plain misleading, which makes it a bad name. 
It has little to do with distro and everything to do with system 
configuration.


Why not just /etc/system.repos.d?

- Panu -
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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Parag Nemade]

Hi,

On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 1:06 PM, Jan Kurik  wrote:
> = Proposed System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir =
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/ReposInEtcDistroReposD
>
> Change owner(s):
> * Neal Gompa 
> * Jan Silhan 
>
>
> == Detailed Description ==
> For DNF 2.0 in Fedora 25, the DNF team would like to make the default
> repository configuration directory /etc/distro.repos.d. In contrast to
> /etc/yum.repos.d (current default path), /etc/distro.repos.d path is a
> package manager agnostic name and less misleading. The configuration
> files are currently used by DNF, PackageKit, and Yum. The proposed
> location more accurately reflects the nature of the repositories, and
> also implies that other tools can look there for repository
> information. Note: current default repository configuration directory
> /etc/yum.repos.d will still be supported by package managers but
> /etc/distro.repos.d would be preferred default path.
>

I will suggest /etc/package.repos.d that way we can be more neutral in
having repos directory using various different packaging formats.

Regards,
Parag.
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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Dennis Gilmore]

On Thursday, May 12, 2016 9:36:32 AM CDT Jan Kurik wrote:
> = Proposed System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir =
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/ReposInEtcDistroReposD
> 
> Change owner(s):
> * Neal Gompa 
> * Jan Silhan 
> 
> 
> == Detailed Description ==
> For DNF 2.0 in Fedora 25, the DNF team would like to make the default
> repository configuration directory /etc/distro.repos.d. In contrast to
> /etc/yum.repos.d (current default path), /etc/distro.repos.d path is a
> package manager agnostic name and less misleading. The configuration
> files are currently used by DNF, PackageKit, and Yum. The proposed
> location more accurately reflects the nature of the repositories, and
> also implies that other tools can look there for repository
> information. Note: current default repository configuration directory
> /etc/yum.repos.d will still be supported by package managers but
> /etc/distro.repos.d would be preferred default path.
> 
> 
> == Scope ==
> * Proposal owners:
> DNF already supports /etc/distro.repos.d, but it should be set as default.
> Yum will need to use the new path by default while supporting the current
> one.
> 
> * Other developers:
> PackageKit's Hif backend will need to use the new path by default
> while supporting the current one.
> fedora-repos and fedora-workstation-repositories will need to change
> to the new path.
you probably should have talked to the owners of effected components before 
filing the change. 

As others have mentioned I do not think that distro.repos.d is not really 
appropriate. I also suspect that the idea of putting them in /usr/lib/ 
somewhere and allowing local overriding py dropping snippets in /etc/ will be 
a lot fo work to yum adding new features that we probably do not want to do.

rpm.repos.d may be the best name if we grow to support maven, npm, rubygems, 
etc repos  they could use .repos.d for consistency

Dennis
> 
> * Release engineering: N/A
> List of deliverables: N/A (Not needed for this Change)
> 
> * Policies and guidelines:
> Packages containing repository configuration will need to change to
> store repo files in /etc/distro.repos.d.
> 
> * Trademark approval: N/A (not needed for this Change)

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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Richard W.M. Jones]

/etc/repos.d is less typing.

Rich.

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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Jóhann B . Guðmundsson]

On 05/12/2016 08:07 AM, Tomasz Torcz wrote:

On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 09:36:32AM +0200, Jan Kurik wrote:

= Proposed System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir =
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/ReposInEtcDistroReposD

Change owner(s):
* Neal Gompa 
* Jan Silhan 


== Detailed Description ==
For DNF 2.0 in Fedora 25, the DNF team would like to make the default
repository configuration directory /etc/distro.repos.d. In contrast to
/etc/yum.repos.d (current default path), /etc/distro.repos.d path is a
package manager agnostic name and less misleading. The configuration
files are currently used by DNF, PackageKit, and Yum. The proposed
location more accurately reflects the nature of the repositories, and
also implies that other tools can look there for repository
information. Note: current default repository configuration directory
/etc/yum.repos.d will still be supported by package managers but
/etc/distro.repos.d would be preferred default path.

   Shouldn't that be /usr/lib/distro.repos.d (for distribution-provided
data) with usual rules for overriding/masking in /etc/distro.repos.d (for
local administrator)?



More like /usr/lib/rpm.repos.d to be generic, distro and 3rd party 
agnostic but yeah this should reside there these days . . .


JBG
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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Igor Gnatenko]

After re-thinking proposal It's very cool idea!

On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 10:07 AM, Tomasz Torcz  wrote:
> On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 09:36:32AM +0200, Jan Kurik wrote:
>> = Proposed System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir =
>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/ReposInEtcDistroReposD
>>
>> Change owner(s):
>> * Neal Gompa 
>> * Jan Silhan 
>>
>>
>> == Detailed Description ==
>> For DNF 2.0 in Fedora 25, the DNF team would like to make the default
>> repository configuration directory /etc/distro.repos.d. In contrast to
>> /etc/yum.repos.d (current default path), /etc/distro.repos.d path is a
>> package manager agnostic name and less misleading. The configuration
>> files are currently used by DNF, PackageKit, and Yum. The proposed
>> location more accurately reflects the nature of the repositories, and
>> also implies that other tools can look there for repository
>> information. Note: current default repository configuration directory
>> /etc/yum.repos.d will still be supported by package managers but
>> /etc/distro.repos.d would be preferred default path.
>
>   Shouldn't that be /usr/lib/distro.repos.d (for distribution-provided
> data) with usual rules for overriding/masking in /etc/distro.repos.d (for
> local administrator)?
>
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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Mathieu Bridon]

On Thu, 2016-05-12 at 20:54 +1000, Dan Callaghan wrote:
> Excerpts from Tom Hughes's message of 2016-05-12 09:15 +01:00:
> > 
> > On 12/05/16 09:07, Tomasz Torcz wrote:
> > > 
> > >    Shouldn't that be /usr/lib/distro.repos.d (for 
> > >    distribution-provided
> > > data) with usual rules for overriding/masking in
> > > /etc/distro.repos.d (for
> > > local administrator)?
> > Well equally isn't the "distro." prefix all wrong if it includes
> > things other than distribution provided repositories...
> Agreed... if end users and third-party repos are expected to also put
> their configs into this directory, then having "distro" in the name 
> doesn't really make sense.
> 
> If the objection to yum.repos.d is that they are not just "yum repos"
> anymore, since clients other than yum can consume them -- then maybe
> we can think of them as "yum-formatted package repos" (that is, 
> "repositories of RPM packages with metadata in the format originated
> by yum").

Agreed.

This change seems like a lot of churn (having to preserve
compatibility, having to change yum, creating tons out of date
documentation, ...) for too little actual benefit.

The "Benefit to Fedora" section just isn't convincing:

> The former default directory path implies that the repositories are
> consumable by Yum only, which is not true. This general path name
> would help us define repository configuration path that would not be
> bound to a specific package manager name and so be more portable
> among package managers. 


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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Dan Callaghan]

Excerpts from Tom Hughes's message of 2016-05-12 09:15 +01:00:
> On 12/05/16 09:07, Tomasz Torcz wrote:
> >Shouldn't that be /usr/lib/distro.repos.d (for 
> >distribution-provided
> > data) with usual rules for overriding/masking in /etc/distro.repos.d (for
> > local administrator)?
> 
> Well equally isn't the "distro." prefix all wrong if it includes things 
> other than distribution provided repositories...

Agreed... if end users and third-party repos are expected to also put 
their configs into this directory, then having "distro" in the name 
doesn't really make sense.

If the objection to yum.repos.d is that they are not just "yum repos" 
anymore, since clients other than yum can consume them -- then maybe we 
can think of them as "yum-formatted package repos" (that is, 
"repositories of RPM packages with metadata in the format originated by 
yum").

In that case, yum.repos.d still seems reasonable to me, but if you 
*really* want to avoid the word "yum" in there then maybe 
package-repos.d or package.repos.d or packagerepos.d?

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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Nico Kadel-Garcia]

On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 4:27 AM, Thorsten Leemhuis  wrote:
> Peter Robinson wrote on 12.05.2016 10:11:
 = Proposed System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir 
 =
 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/ReposInEtcDistroReposD

 Change owner(s):
 * Neal Gompa 
 * Jan Silhan 


 == Detailed Description ==
 For DNF 2.0 in Fedora 25, the DNF team would like to make the default
 repository configuration directory /etc/distro.repos.d. In contrast to
 /etc/yum.repos.d (current default path), /etc/distro.repos.d path is a
 package manager agnostic name and less misleading. The configuration
 files are currently used by DNF, PackageKit, and Yum. The proposed
 location more accurately reflects the nature of the repositories, and
 also implies that other tools can look there for repository
 information. Note: current default repository configuration directory
 /etc/yum.repos.d will still be supported by package managers but
 /etc/distro.repos.d would be preferred default path.
>>>
>>>   Shouldn't that be /usr/lib/distro.repos.d (for distribution-provided
>>> data) with usual rules for overriding/masking in /etc/distro.repos.d (for
>>> local administrator)?
>
> +1 -- I just wanted to write something similar!
>
>> So if you just want to enable updates-testing you have to copy files around?
>
> I'd prefer a scheme similar to systemd, where you in
> /etc/systemd/system/ can easily extent or overlap units defined in
> /usr/lib/systemd/system/ See
> https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.unit.html for
> details.

I know, I know!!! Let's hide /etc/resolv.conf, and leave symlinks to it instead!

Oh, wait, systemd already did that just to break things.

Leave reasonable stable historical locations *alone*,  and don't
pretend to solve dependencies by playing with the filesystem.
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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Thorsten Leemhuis]

Peter Robinson wrote on 12.05.2016 10:11:
>>> = Proposed System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir =
>>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/ReposInEtcDistroReposD
>>>
>>> Change owner(s):
>>> * Neal Gompa 
>>> * Jan Silhan 
>>>
>>>
>>> == Detailed Description ==
>>> For DNF 2.0 in Fedora 25, the DNF team would like to make the default
>>> repository configuration directory /etc/distro.repos.d. In contrast to
>>> /etc/yum.repos.d (current default path), /etc/distro.repos.d path is a
>>> package manager agnostic name and less misleading. The configuration
>>> files are currently used by DNF, PackageKit, and Yum. The proposed
>>> location more accurately reflects the nature of the repositories, and
>>> also implies that other tools can look there for repository
>>> information. Note: current default repository configuration directory
>>> /etc/yum.repos.d will still be supported by package managers but
>>> /etc/distro.repos.d would be preferred default path.
>>
>>   Shouldn't that be /usr/lib/distro.repos.d (for distribution-provided
>> data) with usual rules for overriding/masking in /etc/distro.repos.d (for
>> local administrator)?

+1 -- I just wanted to write something similar!

> So if you just want to enable updates-testing you have to copy files around?

I'd prefer a scheme similar to systemd, where you in
/etc/systemd/system/ can easily extent or overlap units defined in
/usr/lib/systemd/system/ See
https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.unit.html for
details.

CU
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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Vít Ondruch]

Dne 12.5.2016 v 10:11 Peter Robinson napsal(a):
>>> = Proposed System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir =
>>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/ReposInEtcDistroReposD
>>>
>>> Change owner(s):
>>> * Neal Gompa 
>>> * Jan Silhan 
>>>
>>>
>>> == Detailed Description ==
>>> For DNF 2.0 in Fedora 25, the DNF team would like to make the default
>>> repository configuration directory /etc/distro.repos.d. In contrast to
>>> /etc/yum.repos.d (current default path), /etc/distro.repos.d path is a
>>> package manager agnostic name and less misleading. The configuration
>>> files are currently used by DNF, PackageKit, and Yum. The proposed
>>> location more accurately reflects the nature of the repositories, and
>>> also implies that other tools can look there for repository
>>> information. Note: current default repository configuration directory
>>> /etc/yum.repos.d will still be supported by package managers but
>>> /etc/distro.repos.d would be preferred default path.
>>   Shouldn't that be /usr/lib/distro.repos.d (for distribution-provided
>> data) with usual rules for overriding/masking in /etc/distro.repos.d (for
>> local administrator)?

I like this idea.

> So if you just want to enable updates-testing you have to copy files around?

I'd say that you would need to put into /etc just the override values
(which might be either the full file or just the relevant modified
parameters).


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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Tom Hughes]

On 12/05/16 09:07, Tomasz Torcz wrote:

On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 09:36:32AM +0200, Jan Kurik wrote:


For DNF 2.0 in Fedora 25, the DNF team would like to make the default
repository configuration directory /etc/distro.repos.d. In contrast to
/etc/yum.repos.d (current default path), /etc/distro.repos.d path is a
package manager agnostic name and less misleading. The configuration
files are currently used by DNF, PackageKit, and Yum. The proposed
location more accurately reflects the nature of the repositories, and
also implies that other tools can look there for repository
information. Note: current default repository configuration directory
/etc/yum.repos.d will still be supported by package managers but
/etc/distro.repos.d would be preferred default path.


   Shouldn't that be /usr/lib/distro.repos.d (for distribution-provided
data) with usual rules for overriding/masking in /etc/distro.repos.d (for
local administrator)?


Well equally isn't the "distro." prefix all wrong if it includes things 
other than distribution provided repositories...


The split locations with overriding/masking would also only work if you 
were allowed to add options to an existing repository using a new file 
in the /etc location - for example I often use local mirrors and hence 
want to disable the normal distro repos.


Tom

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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Peter Robinson]

>> = Proposed System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir =
>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/ReposInEtcDistroReposD
>>
>> Change owner(s):
>> * Neal Gompa 
>> * Jan Silhan 
>>
>>
>> == Detailed Description ==
>> For DNF 2.0 in Fedora 25, the DNF team would like to make the default
>> repository configuration directory /etc/distro.repos.d. In contrast to
>> /etc/yum.repos.d (current default path), /etc/distro.repos.d path is a
>> package manager agnostic name and less misleading. The configuration
>> files are currently used by DNF, PackageKit, and Yum. The proposed
>> location more accurately reflects the nature of the repositories, and
>> also implies that other tools can look there for repository
>> information. Note: current default repository configuration directory
>> /etc/yum.repos.d will still be supported by package managers but
>> /etc/distro.repos.d would be preferred default path.
>
>   Shouldn't that be /usr/lib/distro.repos.d (for distribution-provided
> data) with usual rules for overriding/masking in /etc/distro.repos.d (for
> local administrator)?

So if you just want to enable updates-testing you have to copy files around?
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Re: F25 System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir

[Tomasz Torcz]

On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 09:36:32AM +0200, Jan Kurik wrote:
> = Proposed System Wide Change: Use /etc/distro.repos.d as default reposdir =
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/ReposInEtcDistroReposD
> 
> Change owner(s):
> * Neal Gompa 
> * Jan Silhan 
> 
> 
> == Detailed Description ==
> For DNF 2.0 in Fedora 25, the DNF team would like to make the default
> repository configuration directory /etc/distro.repos.d. In contrast to
> /etc/yum.repos.d (current default path), /etc/distro.repos.d path is a
> package manager agnostic name and less misleading. The configuration
> files are currently used by DNF, PackageKit, and Yum. The proposed
> location more accurately reflects the nature of the repositories, and
> also implies that other tools can look there for repository
> information. Note: current default repository configuration directory
> /etc/yum.repos.d will still be supported by package managers but
> /etc/distro.repos.d would be preferred default path.

  Shouldn't that be /usr/lib/distro.repos.d (for distribution-provided
data) with usual rules for overriding/masking in /etc/distro.repos.d (for
local administrator)?

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Tomasz Torcz   72->|   80->|
xmpp: zdzich...@chrome.pl  72->|   80->|
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