Re: PR Stuff

[Dan Roberts]

Hey Michael,
   That's awesome to hear! Great job and thanks for putting yourself out
there to do these things.

Cheers,
Dan

On May 15, 2017 10:15 AM, "Michael Grube"  wrote:

Hi Dev List,

I've been quietly running a very small PR campaign and would like to make
some data visible to people. I think the results are encouraging.

Since January I've done 3 things to promote Freenet: Gave a brief
introduction to Freenet primitives and a very very basic runthrough of
pyFreenet.

The class was well attended and truly I did not have to work very hard to
fill it.

The second thing I did was give a talk at a regional convention called
Penguicon. I gave essentially the same talk with a demo(that worked!
quickly!) showing what Freenet is, how it works, etc.

The convention gave about 20 talks an hour and my Freenet talk was in the
top 20 most popular for the entire event - at one point it was in the top
15. I attribute this not to something I did, but to the level of interest
people have in decentralized anonymous communication and publication.

The audience for this is laypeople but my slides are here, if anybody cares:
http://presentations.penguicon.org/?download=Penguicon+2017%2FNo+Gods%2C+
No+Servers.pdf

Finally, I've created a night at my local hackerspace for the specific aim
of setting up darknets and getting people on FMS. I did not anticipate this
being a big event, but I have 20 RSVPs so far and I know there are some
people who are coming but do not wish to publicly acknowledge it. I did not
even promote this event.

So why am I sharing all of this? Honestly I'm surprised and encouraged at
the level of interest that has remained in Freenet. There is a lot left to
fight for and we should not allow high-profile imitations discourage us.

That's all for now,
Thanks.

Re: Website quick-guide and snaglist

[Dan Roberts]

https://github.com/Ademan-laptop/freenet-website-redesign-pelican/commit/ae6b9c4e2d5f282a120abcfdd4a6c4216586f7e9

This addresses the snags in a kludgy way, but is far super to broken links
since we're live now.

Thanks,
Dan

On Apr 6, 2017 10:36 AM, "Ian Clarke"  wrote:

> I've created a doc to give quick instructions on how to contribute to the
> site and also a list of snags that need to be fixed.  Hopefully this can
> grow into a quick overview of how everything is wired together here (if
> Florent or someone could flesh this out).
>
> Anyone is welcome to address any snag, just mark it with strikethrough
> once you start working on it / finish it.
>
> This doc does not require Google sign-in to edit, tor (please don't abuse)
> and can be accessed via Tor (I've tested this):
>
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WjStykIc_BiCircQ7os2xBq-
> NSDuIm437WZVU4a6Z5E/edit#
>
> Please contribute to the doc, find snags, and (even better!) fix snags :)
>
> Ian.
>
> Ian Clarke
> Founder, The Freenet Project
> Email: i...@freenetproject.org
>

Re: HSTS and expired cert: our site is down for now

[Dan Roberts]

The jnlp download for Linux requires review and almost certainly
modification. I'm not familiar with jnlp itself but I will try to review it
and the rest of the downloads in the next half hour on public transit. I
don't know if I'll have enough time to complete that this morning however,
it would be great for someone to review that too.

Thanks,
Dan

On Apr 6, 2017 12:49 AM, "Florent Daigniere" 
wrote:

> I have made the DNS changes; these aren't the problem...
>
> The problem is that the content we serve from the new infrastructure
> isn't ready... almost a year in the making... so we have never finished
> the infrastructure switch.
>
> Whatever is pushed to
> https://github.com/freenet/website/tree/2016-redesign
> will go live; both of you have access; if you care, fix it :)
>
> I won't have time to do anything more for the foreseeable future.
>
> Florent
>
> On Thu, 2017-04-06 at 00:10 +, Ian wrote:
> >  Crap, what are we waiting on to get it back up?
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 6:35 PM, Arne Babenhauserheide arne_...@web.de
> > wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > The certificate expired and we use HTTP Strict Transport Security
> > > (HSTS). That means: Our old site is down until the DNS can be
> > > switched
> > > over to the AWS site.
> > >
> > > Let’s treat this as a test of what would happen if an attacker were
> > > to
> > > take down our clearnet infrastructure.
> > >
> > > Best wishes,
> > > Arne
> > > --
> > > Unpolitisch sein
> > > heißt politisch sein
> > > ohne es zu merken
> > >
> > >

Re: [freenet-dev] Website Redesign Pre-pre-alpha

[Dan Roberts]

Sorry 'bout that, I've got a few changes ready to pull. I resolved the
mobile issue, and I want to coordinate with Florent about the list sign up,
I haven't been available so far this week for that.

I think those are our last known issues.

Thanks,
Dan

On Mar 24, 2017 10:51 PM, "Ian"  wrote:

Hi Dan, just wanted to check in on this - would be great to have the new
site up!



On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 1:06 AM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hey Everyone,
> We're getting really close now, especially with Florent's work getting
> the site to build automatically. I have a few things to work on this week
> and weekend but I have a lot more time this weekend than I did last, and
> fewer action items. I'm nearly happy with it. Thanks for hanging in there.
>
> Cheers,
> Dan
>
> On Mar 18, 2017 3:28 AM, "Florent Daigniere" 
> wrote:
>
> You should be able to make those changes yourself from your web-browser
> with the github "edit" button on:
> https://github.com/freenet/website/blob/2016-redesign/theme/
> templates/footer.html
>
> Let's use the issue-tracker rather than the mailing list for it
>
> Florent
> PS: I am done tweaking it, it's fast-enough here
>
>
> On Fri, 2017-03-17 at 21:11 +, Ian Clarke wrote:
> > Another one, we should probably fix "184 Followers  Downloads 184
> > Likes"
> > at the bottom.
> > " Downloads" probably isn't the message we want to be sending :)
> > Also not sure if we need to include how many followers/likes we have
> > here, or if
> > we really want that there is probably a FB widget we can embed.
> > Ian.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 9:25 AM, Ian Clarke i...@trystacks.com  wrote:
> > Some feedback on the site re: mobile device format:
> > Looks great👍 however there's something a little strange with th
> > e layout on my
> > phone. The first logo seems to push the margins out to the right
> > effecting the
> > scrolling.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 9:15 AM, Ian Clarke i...@trystacks.com  wrote:
> > Minor thing, but probably worth adding Facebook markup so that the
> > page looks
> > good when shared :
> > https://developers.facebook.com/docs/sharing/webmasters#markup
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 7:30 PM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com  wrote:
> > Hi Florent,
> > Thanks so much for putting that together. When I try to access
> > staging.freenetproject.org  I get an "Access Denied" error. In the
> > past I recall
> > there being an authentication challenge, am I missing something?
> > Thanks,Dan
> > On Mar 15, 2017 4:34 PM, "Florent Daigniere"  > org>
> > wrote:
> > I have deployed it on
> > https://github.com/freenet/website/tree/2016-redesign
> > It gets auto-built by CI when you push to it
> > https://travis-ci.org/freenet/website
> > and auto-deployed to:
> > https://staging.freenetproject.org/
> >
> > Florent
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 2017-03-10 at 10:49 -0800, Dan Roberts wrote:
> > > Hi Ian,
> > > I was going to solicit further feedback this weekend since
> > > nobody
> > > has
> > > commented on the language selection menu. Since that is my own
> > > creation,
> > > not from the original design I want a bit of review.
> > >
> > > My list of remaining items is extremely small at this point so
> > > community
> > > feedback is important in general.
> > >
> > > After i finish my list I can start in on content updates like you
> > > pointed
> > > out.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Dan
> > >
> > > On Mar 9, 2017 7:44 AM, "Ian Clarke"  wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hey Dan,
> > > >
> > > > Any updates?
> > > >
> > > > Ian.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 8:27 AM, Ian Clarke i...@trystacks.com  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Only have a few seconds for feedback just now, but we should
> > > > > change
> > > > > "What's Freenet" to "What is Freenet?", and "Freenet Features"
> > > > > to
> > > > > "Features".  We should probably have more to explain what
> > > > > Freenet
> > > > > is, and
> > > > 

Re: [freenet-dev] Website Redesign Pre-pre-alpha

[Dan Roberts]

Hey Everyone,
We're getting really close now, especially with Florent's work getting
the site to build automatically. I have a few things to work on this week
and weekend but I have a lot more time this weekend than I did last, and
fewer action items. I'm nearly happy with it. Thanks for hanging in there.

Cheers,
Dan

On Mar 18, 2017 3:28 AM, "Florent Daigniere" 
wrote:

> You should be able to make those changes yourself from your web-browser
> with the github "edit" button on:
> https://github.com/freenet/website/blob/2016-redesign/
> theme/templates/footer.html
>
> Let's use the issue-tracker rather than the mailing list for it
>
> Florent
> PS: I am done tweaking it, it's fast-enough here
>
>
> On Fri, 2017-03-17 at 21:11 +, Ian Clarke wrote:
> > Another one, we should probably fix "184 Followers  Downloads 184
> > Likes"
> > at the bottom.
> > " Downloads" probably isn't the message we want to be sending :)
> > Also not sure if we need to include how many followers/likes we have
> > here, or if
> > we really want that there is probably a FB widget we can embed.
> > Ian.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 9:25 AM, Ian Clarke i...@trystacks.com  wrote:
> > Some feedback on the site re: mobile device format:
> > Looks great👍 however there's something a little strange with th
> > e layout on my
> > phone. The first logo seems to push the margins out to the right
> > effecting the
> > scrolling.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 9:15 AM, Ian Clarke i...@trystacks.com  wrote:
> > Minor thing, but probably worth adding Facebook markup so that the
> > page looks
> > good when shared :
> > https://developers.facebook.com/docs/sharing/webmasters#markup
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 7:30 PM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com  wrote:
> > Hi Florent,
> > Thanks so much for putting that together. When I try to access
> > staging.freenetproject.org  I get an "Access Denied" error. In the
> > past I recall
> > there being an authentication challenge, am I missing something?
> > Thanks,Dan
> > On Mar 15, 2017 4:34 PM, "Florent Daigniere"  > org>
> > wrote:
> > I have deployed it on
> > https://github.com/freenet/website/tree/2016-redesign
> > It gets auto-built by CI when you push to it
> > https://travis-ci.org/freenet/website
> > and auto-deployed to:
> > https://staging.freenetproject.org/
> >
> > Florent
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 2017-03-10 at 10:49 -0800, Dan Roberts wrote:
> > > Hi Ian,
> > > I was going to solicit further feedback this weekend since
> > > nobody
> > > has
> > > commented on the language selection menu. Since that is my own
> > > creation,
> > > not from the original design I want a bit of review.
> > >
> > > My list of remaining items is extremely small at this point so
> > > community
> > > feedback is important in general.
> > >
> > > After i finish my list I can start in on content updates like you
> > > pointed
> > > out.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Dan
> > >
> > > On Mar 9, 2017 7:44 AM, "Ian Clarke"  wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hey Dan,
> > > >
> > > > Any updates?
> > > >
> > > > Ian.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 8:27 AM, Ian Clarke i...@trystacks.com  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Only have a few seconds for feedback just now, but we should
> > > > > change
> > > > > "What's Freenet" to "What is Freenet?", and "Freenet Features"
> > > > > to
> > > > > "Features".  We should probably have more to explain what
> > > > > Freenet
> > > > > is, and
> > > > > the Download link in the "What's Freenet" section doesn't really
> > > > > belong
> > > > > there.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 3:02 AM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hey Everyone,
> > > > > I've put a new release up here: https://ademan-laptop.
> > > > > githu

Re: [freenet-dev] Website Redesign Pre-pre-alpha

[Dan Roberts]

Hi Florent,

 Thanks so much for putting that together. When I try to access
staging.freenetproject.org I get an "Access Denied" error. In the past I
recall there being an authentication challenge, am I missing something?

Thanks,
Dan

On Mar 15, 2017 4:34 PM, "Florent Daigniere" 
wrote:

> I have deployed it on
> https://github.com/freenet/website/tree/2016-redesign
> It gets auto-built by CI when you push to it
> https://travis-ci.org/freenet/website
> and auto-deployed to:
> https://staging.freenetproject.org/
>
> Florent
>
>
> On Fri, 2017-03-10 at 10:49 -0800, Dan Roberts wrote:
> > Hi Ian,
> > I was going to solicit further feedback this weekend since nobody
> > has
> > commented on the language selection menu. Since that is my own
> > creation,
> > not from the original design I want a bit of review.
> >
> > My list of remaining items is extremely small at this point so
> > community
> > feedback is important in general.
> >
> > After i finish my list I can start in on content updates like you
> > pointed
> > out.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Dan
> >
> > On Mar 9, 2017 7:44 AM, "Ian Clarke"  wrote:
> >
> > > Hey Dan,
> > >
> > > Any updates?
> > >
> > > Ian.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 8:27 AM, Ian Clarke i...@trystacks.com wrote:
> > >
> > > > Only have a few seconds for feedback just now, but we should
> > > > change
> > > > "What's Freenet" to "What is Freenet?", and "Freenet Features" to
> > > > "Features".  We should probably have more to explain what Freenet
> > > > is, and
> > > > the Download link in the "What's Freenet" section doesn't really
> > > > belong
> > > > there.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 3:02 AM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hey Everyone,
> > > > I've put a new release up here: https://ademan-laptop.
> > > > github.io/freenet-website-redesign-pelican/ Some resource images
> > > > are
> > > > broken due to the /freenet-website-redesign-pelican/ prefix, and
> > > > I'm not
> > > > certain there's a good way to fix this. (Relative paths break with
> > > > our
> > > > i18n_subsites usage). Please ignore that for the moment.
> > > >
> > > > Please take a look at the language menu's style, I extrapolated
> > > > from the
> > > > design we bought, but I am not really a designer. I think I'll
> > > > change its
> > > > functionality so that changing language keeps you on the same
> > > > page. The
> > > > language menu picks up any messages.mo files (generated from .po
> > > > files) and
> > > > gives them a language entry.
> > > >
> > > > I appreciate any and all constructive feedback.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Dan
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 1:54 AM, Arne Babenhauserheide  > > > eb.de>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Dan Roberts  writes:
> > > >
> > > > > Hey Everyone,
> > > > > I'll be posting the website for feedback tomorrow.
> > > >
> > > > Great!
> > > >
> > > > > I seem to constantly
> > > > > find new things to fix, but I could probably nit-pick forever,
> > > >
> > > > That’s common problem ☺
> > > >
> > > > > I'd like to also create and/or link to a google plus freenet
> > > > > page. I
> > > >
> > > > found
> > > > > this: https://plus.google.com/communities/107006765679470608749
> > > > > I think
> > > > > it's worth having something.
> > > >
> > > > There’s also the Deep Web community:
> > > > https://plus.google.com/communities/104253064892524682250
> > > >
> > > > > I'll be removing the pinterest and instagram social media links
> > > > > unless
> > > > > somebody thinks we should have a presence there too.
> > > >
> > > > There’s a difference between thi

Re: [freenet-dev] Website Redesign Pre-pre-alpha

[Dan Roberts]

Hi Ian,
I was going to solicit further feedback this weekend since nobody has
commented on the language selection menu. Since that is my own creation,
not from the original design I want a bit of review.

My list of remaining items is extremely small at this point so community
feedback is important in general.

After i finish my list I can start in on content updates like you pointed
out.

Thanks,
Dan

On Mar 9, 2017 7:44 AM, "Ian Clarke"  wrote:

> Hey Dan,
>
> Any updates?
>
> Ian.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 8:27 AM, Ian Clarke i...@trystacks.com wrote:
>
>> Only have a few seconds for feedback just now, but we should change
>> "What's Freenet" to "What is Freenet?", and "Freenet Features" to
>> "Features".  We should probably have more to explain what Freenet is, and
>> the Download link in the "What's Freenet" section doesn't really belong
>> there.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 3:02 AM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> Hey Everyone,
>> I've put a new release up here: https://ademan-laptop.
>> github.io/freenet-website-redesign-pelican/ Some resource images are
>> broken due to the /freenet-website-redesign-pelican/ prefix, and I'm not
>> certain there's a good way to fix this. (Relative paths break with our
>> i18n_subsites usage). Please ignore that for the moment.
>>
>> Please take a look at the language menu's style, I extrapolated from the
>> design we bought, but I am not really a designer. I think I'll change its
>> functionality so that changing language keeps you on the same page. The
>> language menu picks up any messages.mo files (generated from .po files) and
>> gives them a language entry.
>>
>> I appreciate any and all constructive feedback.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Dan
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 1:54 AM, Arne Babenhauserheide 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Dan Roberts  writes:
>>
>> > Hey Everyone,
>> > I'll be posting the website for feedback tomorrow.
>>
>> Great!
>>
>> > I seem to constantly
>> > find new things to fix, but I could probably nit-pick forever,
>>
>> That’s common problem ☺
>>
>> > I'd like to also create and/or link to a google plus freenet page. I
>> found
>> > this: https://plus.google.com/communities/107006765679470608749 I think
>> > it's worth having something.
>>
>> There’s also the Deep Web community:
>> https://plus.google.com/communities/104253064892524682250
>>
>> > I'll be removing the pinterest and instagram social media links unless
>> > somebody thinks we should have a presence there too.
>>
>> There’s a difference between thinking we should be there and having
>> someone who does it: If we had someone who maintains them, I’d say we
>> should be there. According to teachers, instagram is where the cool
>> people are are nowadays. If not, not. I think this goes for every social
>> network.
>>
>> > The difference from twitter, google+ and facebook are that we
>> > incidentally generate content to put on those sites (news items can be
>> > copied and pasted and/or linked to), the more image-oriented social
>> > media would take extra effort (that I don't believe would be worth
>> > while).
>>
>> Sounds reasonable.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>> Arne
>> --
>> Unpolitisch sein
>> heißt politisch sein
>> ohne es zu merken
>>
>> ___
>> Devl mailing list
>> Devl@freenetproject.org
>> https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Ian Clarke
>> Stacks - Our AI will save your money
>> http://trystacks.com/
>>
>>
>
>
> Ian Clarke
> Stacks - Our AI will save your money
> http://trystacks.com/
>
>
___
Devl mailing list
Devl@freenetproject.org
https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl

Re: [freenet-dev] Freenet 0.7.5 build 1476 is now available

[Dan Roberts]

Thanks for all your hard work!

Thanks also to Steve for managing for so long and supporting this release
as well!

Cheers,
Dan

On Mar 1, 2017 4:29 PM, "Arne Babenhauserheide"  wrote:

> Freenet 0.7.5 build 1476 is now available.
>
> - efficiency improvements: routing for fast nodes and spare bitmaps
> - a new gif filter with improved security
> - improved maintainability by replacing custom code with standard code
> - show update info alongside bookmarks
> - ssl fixes
> - update plugins: Sharesite 0.4.4, Library v37, Freereader 6
>
> Thank you for using Freenet!
>
>
> This is my first release as release manager. Deepest gratitude to Toad,
> Steve, and Florent for the release infrastructure I inherited.  It is
> much more convenient than it looks at first glance.
>
> Running nodes should detect the update automatically over Freenet and
> either update directly or prompt you for updating (depending on your
> autoupdate settings).
>
>
> - Arne Babenhauserheide
>
> PS: The long release notes in the tag contain one error:
> "semi-persistent" should be "persistent". Fixed here
>
>
> Developer changelog:
>
> 2017-03-01
>
> Changes in 1476:
>
> - FOAF efficiency enhancements for fast nodes
> - gif filter
> - ssl fixes
> - logger fix
> - spare bitmap efficiency
> - reduce custom code
> - show persistent update info next to bookmarks
> - plugin updates: Sharesite 0.4.4, Library v37, Freereader 6
>
> Thank you to all involved!
>
> - Arne Babenhauserheide
>
>
> Sharesite changes from 0.2.7 to 0.4.4:
>
> - provide default content as nicer example
> - add explicit path option
> - add insertHour to restrict the upload time
> - show the current UTC hour next to the insertHour setting
> - add random wait time of at most the remaining seconds in the insertHour
> to mask clicking insert during the insertHour.
> - parse description as textile
> - syntax help: show block elements first
> - link to style.css at the bottom
> - footer: link to the latest version of Sharesite
> - thanks to banbananabans@CQUZ... from FMS for lots of feedback
>
>
> ---
> Sharesite changes:
>
> Arne Babenhauserheide (16):
>   import patch
>   more syntax help
>   better code help and blockquote help
>   help: add strong again
>   hopefully really breaking block
>   only redirect to edit if not preview clicked.
>   rename ChangeLog to NEWS, because it is user-facing, not developer
> facing (as by the GNU coding guidelines).
>   prepared version 0.2.1
>   add Image syntax help.
>   help: {toc} only works as only element in the line
>   mention that the h. headline tags are what are used to form the
> contents text
>   syntax: note that to the left is the syntax
>   Added tag 0.2.8 for changeset efb842bd4f73
>   Added signature for changeset 7f938354de9c
>   increase realVersion and version
>   0.4.4 with updated ant
>
> drak@kaverne (91):
>   fix localization and other minor stuff
>   actually switch to an exact copy of the ShareWiki b17 source.
>   add missing activelink template.
>   review everything except for mylyn
>   fix whitespace in review notes.
>   Document the last version of textile-j under LGPL
>   Compiling with Textile-J works.
>   Removed mylyn stuff (under EPL).
>   Use LGPL 2.1 as License, since I may now do that after replacing
> mylyn wikitext with textile-j, since the original author of sharelink could
> only have shared this (legally) under a GPL compatible license.
>   add basic syntax help
>   update l10n
>   add syntax help {toc}
>   include the NEWS in the source tarball.
>   rename plugin to Sharesite
>   keep the backup format the same: loads ShareWiki backups
>   update version to 0.2.2 with realVersion 2
>   update NEWS
>   actually move to Sharesite
>   replace freesite URL
>   link to the Sharesite Freesite instead of ShareLink
>   template: Add ids for header and footer to simplify CSS design
>   more consistent IDs for CSS
>   harmonize coding style
>   harmonize coding style
>   added an activelinkUri field.
>   todo: discuss using a redirect for the activelink
>   increment version to 0.2.4
>   Added tag 0.2.4 for changeset f6689b03c70c
>   Added signature for changeset be98370f3504
>   increment build number to 27
>   add NEWS entry for 0.2.4
>   Added signature for changeset 03a85d80dfae
>   fix: compare strings with .equals()
>   update version and build number.
>   Added tag 0.2.5 for changeset 4489ccf64d09
>   Added signature for changeset 038bde8cbc27
>   improve news
>   activelink: note that the URI must be SSK or CHK
>   prepare 0.2.6
>   add a very basic Makefile
>   prepare version 0.2.7
>   fix Makefile a bit and update build number.
>   Added tag 0.2.7 for changeset 06c3625ff20b
>   Added signature for changeset cd12c2e21dad
>   Added signature for changeset

Re: [freenet-dev] Website Redesign Pre-pre-alpha

[Dan Roberts]

Hey Everyone,
I've put a new release up here:
https://ademan-laptop.github.io/freenet-website-redesign-pelican/ Some
resource images are broken due to the /freenet-website-redesign-pelican/
prefix, and I'm not certain there's a good way to fix this. (Relative paths
break with our i18n_subsites usage). Please ignore that for the moment.

Please take a look at the language menu's style, I extrapolated from the
design we bought, but I am not really a designer. I think I'll change its
functionality so that changing language keeps you on the same page. The
language menu picks up any messages.mo files (generated from .po files) and
gives them a language entry.

I appreciate any and all constructive feedback.

Thanks,
Dan

On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 1:54 AM, Arne Babenhauserheide 
wrote:

>
> Dan Roberts  writes:
>
> > Hey Everyone,
> > I'll be posting the website for feedback tomorrow.
>
> Great!
>
> > I seem to constantly
> > find new things to fix, but I could probably nit-pick forever,
>
> That’s common problem ☺
>
> > I'd like to also create and/or link to a google plus freenet page. I
> found
> > this: https://plus.google.com/communities/107006765679470608749 I think
> > it's worth having something.
>
> There’s also the Deep Web community:
> https://plus.google.com/communities/104253064892524682250
>
> > I'll be removing the pinterest and instagram social media links unless
> > somebody thinks we should have a presence there too.
>
> There’s a difference between thinking we should be there and having
> someone who does it: If we had someone who maintains them, I’d say we
> should be there. According to teachers, instagram is where the cool
> people are are nowadays. If not, not. I think this goes for every social
> network.
>
> > The difference from twitter, google+ and facebook are that we
> > incidentally generate content to put on those sites (news items can be
> > copied and pasted and/or linked to), the more image-oriented social
> > media would take extra effort (that I don't believe would be worth
> > while).
>
> Sounds reasonable.
>
> Best wishes,
> Arne
> --
> Unpolitisch sein
> heißt politisch sein
> ohne es zu merken
>
> ___
> Devl mailing list
> Devl@freenetproject.org
> https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
>
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Re: [freenet-dev] Website Redesign Pre-pre-alpha

[Dan Roberts]

Hey Everyone,
I'll be posting the website for feedback tomorrow. I seem to constantly
find new things to fix, but I could probably nit-pick forever, I need
everyone's help catching the big things I haven't noticed. There are two
things that are near-show-stoppers I intend to fix tomorrow afternoon.

I'd like to also create and/or link to a google plus freenet page. I found
this: https://plus.google.com/communities/107006765679470608749 I think
it's worth having something. I'll be removing the pinterest and instagram
social media links unless somebody thinks we should have a presence there
too. The difference from twitter, google+ and facebook are that we
incidentally generate content to put on those sites (news items can be
copied and pasted and/or linked to), the more image-oriented social media
would take extra effort (that I don't believe would be worth while).

Thanks,
Dan

On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 7:43 PM, Ian Clarke  wrote:

> Thanks for the update and your hard work on this!
>
> On Wed, Feb 15, 2017, 9:42 PM Dan Roberts  wrote:
>
>> Just a quick update. I ran into an issue that cost me a lot of time.
>> Frustratingly it was something I removed when I first uploaded to github.
>> I've found that trivial issues cause difficult to trace errors in pelican.
>>
>> I'm still moving forward, but I did have this setback. I have a three day
>> weekend so I'll be pushing very hard through Monday to get everything in
>> order. Ideally I'll seek feedback Saturday and/or Sunday and prepare for
>> release Monday, this last 20% has been rough but the end is in sight.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Dan
>>
>> On Feb 9, 2017 6:15 PM, "Dan Roberts"  wrote:
>>
>> Hey Ian,
>> I didn't have a whole lot of time last weekend but I've been
>> squeezing in time during the week as my week permitted... I'm planning to
>> set aside most of this weekend to work on it though, I should be able to
>> address all of the known issues during that time, so we're getting very
>> close.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Dan
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 8, 2017 at 7:41 AM, Ian Clarke  wrote:
>>
>> Hey Dan,
>>
>> How are things going with the new website?  Are we close to going live
>> with it?
>>
>> Ian.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 1:19 PM, Arne Babenhauserheide arne_...@web.de
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Ian Clarke  writes:
>>
>>
>> > On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 5:34 AM, Arne Babenhauserheide arne_...@web.de
>> wrote:A
>>
>> >> More importantly: However they are shown: We are lacking screenshots.
>>
>> > We should only include screenshots if they don't detract from the clean
>> design.
>>
>>
>> Do people install programs nowadays when they don’t get a screenshot? (a
>>
>> few years ago, missing screenshots were the easiest way to loose most
>>
>> visitors).
>>
>>
>> >> Leap over censorship
>>
>> >> Escape total surveillance
>>
>> > I was never a big fan of this tagline, it's a somewhat tortured pun.
>> When did
>>
>> > we get rid of the Mike Godwin quote?
>>
>>
>> I don’t know why we did that, but I always disagreed with removing it.
>>
>>
>> My point is: We need a strong tagline.
>>
>>
>> > > “After running the Tor services for years it was a big relief to just
>>
>> > > shut down the services for good and say ’fuck it’. I never again
>>
>> > > had to worry no more about security. With Freenet I am Free, it
>>
>> > > suites the name pretty well if you ask me.”
>>
>> > > — Unkwon
>>
>> >
>>
>> > I don't think we should have swear-words on the site, definitely not on
>> the
>>
>> > front page. It would look immature.
>>
>>
>> Steve said that, too, and I agree with you both. We can simply remove
>>
>> that part of the quote.
>>
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Arne
>>
>> --
>>
>> Unpolitisch sein
>>
>> heißt politisch sein
>>
>> ohne es zu merken
>>
>> ___
>>
>> Devl mailing list
>>
>> Devl@freenetproject.org
>>
>> https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
>>
>>
>>
>> Ian Clarke
>> Stacks - Our AI will save your money
>> http://trystacks.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> --
> Stacks
> http://trystacks.com/ - Our AI will save you money
>
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Re: [freenet-dev] 5 weeks till our SSL certificate expires

[Dan Roberts]

The website is fully static and should be fine with s3 + cloudflare. I
don't think it makes much sense to use github for any of this hosting, we
already threw out all of the advantages we'd get from it back in october or
november for the translation support, and switching to pelican didn't
change the situation. The pending question for me is how to handle
deployment, I figure I'll end up working with Florent to develop a lambda
job, it should be pretty straight forward.

Thanks,
Dan

On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 1:03 PM, Ian  wrote:

> Dan, can you clarify the current plan for website hosting per Nextgens'
> questions below?
>
> Ian.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 2:29 AM, Florent Daigniere
> nextg...@freenetproject.org wrote:
>
>> We need to know what we are hosting before we can make any determination
>>
>> here... Last I've heard, the plan was to start with github's hosting
>>
>> facility and to put either cloudflare or cloudfront in front (since
>>
>> github doesn't do SSL). If it turns out that we have a fully static
>>
>> website, I suggest we do s3 + cloudfront (SSL all the way instead). I
>>
>> have said that I would take care of it and I will, provided the new
>>
>> website materialises.
>>
>>
>> There are numerous related quirks that need ironing out; Fred pins the
>>
>> certificate authority FPI uses to securely fetch plugins and last-resort
>>
>> updates... this means that changing the CA we use will take a mandatory
>>
>> release (which obviously involves some planning).
>>
>>
>> By the way, we need to plan for the mailserver / mailman too (this is
>>
>> also reliant on having a valid certificate as currently configured).
>>
>>
>> Florent
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 2017-02-21 at 14:26 -0500, Steve Dougherty wrote:
>>
>> > Sure, I'll discuss this with nextgens.
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >  Original Message 
>>
>> > On Feb 21, 2017, 11:42 AM, Ian wrote:
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Steve, are you in a position to take ownership of this task (renewing
>>
>> > our cert and migrating to Let's Encrypt)?
>>
>> >
>>
>> > What about using AWS, don't they do free certs now? It seems like
>>
>> > Florent is keen on migrating everything to AWS (except for what's on
>>
>> > Github), if so it might be nice to have the cert through AWS too (and
>>
>> > AWS has good multi-user functionality).
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Ian.
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 9:31 AM, Steve Dougherty  st...@asksteved.com
>>
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >
>>
>> >  Original Message 
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Subject: Re: [freenet-dev] 5 weeks till our SSL certificate expires
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Local Time: February 21, 2017 8:07 AM
>>
>> >
>>
>> > UTC Time: February 21, 2017 1:07 PM
>>
>> >
>>
>> > From: i...@locut.us
>>
>> >
>>
>> > To: Discussion of development issues ,
>>
>> > Florent Daignière 
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Did we migrate over to AWS for SSL? I'm not at all familiar with how
>>
>> > this is
>>
>> >
>>
>> > set up - who is? Florent?
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > We bought an SSL cert from Alpha SSL and use it with Apache on osprey.
>>
>> > My inclination would be to move to Let's Encrypt.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > ___
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Devl mailing list
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Devl@freenetproject.org
>>
>> >
>>
>> > https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
>>
>> > ___
>>
>> > Devl mailing list
>>
>> > Devl@freenetproject.org
>>
>> > https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
>>
>
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Re: [freenet-dev] Website Redesign Pre-pre-alpha

[Dan Roberts]

Just a quick update. I ran into an issue that cost me a lot of time.
Frustratingly it was something I removed when I first uploaded to github.
I've found that trivial issues cause difficult to trace errors in pelican.

I'm still moving forward, but I did have this setback. I have a three day
weekend so I'll be pushing very hard through Monday to get everything in
order. Ideally I'll seek feedback Saturday and/or Sunday and prepare for
release Monday, this last 20% has been rough but the end is in sight.

Thanks,
Dan

On Feb 9, 2017 6:15 PM, "Dan Roberts"  wrote:

> Hey Ian,
> I didn't have a whole lot of time last weekend but I've been squeezing
> in time during the week as my week permitted... I'm planning to set aside
> most of this weekend to work on it though, I should be able to address all
> of the known issues during that time, so we're getting very close.
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
>
> On Wed, Feb 8, 2017 at 7:41 AM, Ian Clarke  wrote:
>
>> Hey Dan,
>>
>> How are things going with the new website?  Are we close to going live
>> with it?
>>
>> Ian.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 1:19 PM, Arne Babenhauserheide arne_...@web.de
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Ian Clarke  writes:
>>>
>>>
>>> > On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 5:34 AM, Arne Babenhauserheide arne_...@web.de
>>> wrote:A
>>>
>>> >> More importantly: However they are shown: We are lacking screenshots.
>>>
>>> > We should only include screenshots if they don't detract from the
>>> clean design.
>>>
>>>
>>> Do people install programs nowadays when they don’t get a screenshot? (a
>>>
>>> few years ago, missing screenshots were the easiest way to loose most
>>>
>>> visitors).
>>>
>>>
>>> >> Leap over censorship
>>>
>>> >> Escape total surveillance
>>>
>>> > I was never a big fan of this tagline, it's a somewhat tortured pun.
>>> When did
>>>
>>> > we get rid of the Mike Godwin quote?
>>>
>>>
>>> I don’t know why we did that, but I always disagreed with removing it.
>>>
>>>
>>> My point is: We need a strong tagline.
>>>
>>>
>>> > > “After running the Tor services for years it was a big relief to just
>>>
>>> > > shut down the services for good and say ’fuck it’. I never again
>>>
>>> > > had to worry no more about security. With Freenet I am Free, it
>>>
>>> > > suites the name pretty well if you ask me.”
>>>
>>> > > — Unkwon
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> > I don't think we should have swear-words on the site, definitely not
>>> on the
>>>
>>> > front page. It would look immature.
>>>
>>>
>>> Steve said that, too, and I agree with you both. We can simply remove
>>>
>>> that part of the quote.
>>>
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>>
>>> Arne
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Unpolitisch sein
>>>
>>> heißt politisch sein
>>>
>>> ohne es zu merken
>>>
>>> ___
>>>
>>> Devl mailing list
>>>
>>> Devl@freenetproject.org
>>>
>>> https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
>>>
>>
>>
>> Ian Clarke
>> Stacks - Our AI will save your money
>> http://trystacks.com/
>>
>>
>
>
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Re: [freenet-dev] Website Redesign Pre-pre-alpha

[Dan Roberts]

Hey Ian,
I didn't have a whole lot of time last weekend but I've been squeezing
in time during the week as my week permitted... I'm planning to set aside
most of this weekend to work on it though, I should be able to address all
of the known issues during that time, so we're getting very close.

Thanks,
Dan

On Wed, Feb 8, 2017 at 7:41 AM, Ian Clarke  wrote:

> Hey Dan,
>
> How are things going with the new website?  Are we close to going live
> with it?
>
> Ian.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 1:19 PM, Arne Babenhauserheide arne_...@web.de wrote:
>
>>
>> Ian Clarke  writes:
>>
>>
>> > On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 5:34 AM, Arne Babenhauserheide arne_...@web.de
>> wrote:A
>>
>> >> More importantly: However they are shown: We are lacking screenshots.
>>
>> > We should only include screenshots if they don't detract from the clean
>> design.
>>
>>
>> Do people install programs nowadays when they don’t get a screenshot? (a
>>
>> few years ago, missing screenshots were the easiest way to loose most
>>
>> visitors).
>>
>>
>> >> Leap over censorship
>>
>> >> Escape total surveillance
>>
>> > I was never a big fan of this tagline, it's a somewhat tortured pun.
>> When did
>>
>> > we get rid of the Mike Godwin quote?
>>
>>
>> I don’t know why we did that, but I always disagreed with removing it.
>>
>>
>> My point is: We need a strong tagline.
>>
>>
>> > > “After running the Tor services for years it was a big relief to just
>>
>> > > shut down the services for good and say ’fuck it’. I never again
>>
>> > > had to worry no more about security. With Freenet I am Free, it
>>
>> > > suites the name pretty well if you ask me.”
>>
>> > > — Unkwon
>>
>> >
>>
>> > I don't think we should have swear-words on the site, definitely not on
>> the
>>
>> > front page. It would look immature.
>>
>>
>> Steve said that, too, and I agree with you both. We can simply remove
>>
>> that part of the quote.
>>
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Arne
>>
>> --
>>
>> Unpolitisch sein
>>
>> heißt politisch sein
>>
>> ohne es zu merken
>>
>> ___
>>
>> Devl mailing list
>>
>> Devl@freenetproject.org
>>
>> https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
>>
>
>
> Ian Clarke
> Stacks - Our AI will save your money
> http://trystacks.com/
>
>
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Re: [freenet-dev] Website Redesign Pre-pre-alpha

[Dan Roberts]

Ah great, I was unaware we had an official facebook page. I think it would
be great to at least mirror some of our most recent news items to it for
content. Facebook and Twitter are the two most important social media
accounts in my estimation, but I no longer follow these sort of things
closely.

I've hosted the current state of the redesign here for now:
https://ademan-laptop.github.io/freenet-website-redesign-pelican/

There are still known issues, but I've enabled github issues on the
project. Please feel free to report issues and comments/criticism as you
come across them. I plan to spend some time tomorrow squashing more bugs
that resulted from the port to pelican.

Thanks,
Dan



On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 5:23 PM, Ian Clarke  wrote:

> I use FB, and we already have a Freenet page -
> https://www.facebook.com/freenetp2p/
> It's not well maintained, but it is getting about 15 likes per week or
> so.  If
> anyone would like to assist with it let me know.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 4:07 PM, Arne Babenhauserheide arne_...@web.de
> wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
>
>
> Dan Roberts  writes:
>
> > Ian: Are you comfortable with creating social media accounts for Freenet?
>
> > Our design assumes their existence. I think a Facebook account is
>
> > worthwhile in any case.
>
>
>
>
> As far as I know we have a twitter account. Does anyone among us use
>
> Facebook (so is there someone who could routinely monitor the account)?
>
>
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Arne
>
> --
>
> Unpolitisch sein
>
> heißt politisch sein
>
> ohne es zu merken
>
> ___
>
> Devl mailing list
>
> Devl@freenetproject.org
>
> https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
>
>
>
> Ian ClarkeStacks - Our AI will save your moneyhttp://trystacks.com/
> ___
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>
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Re: [freenet-dev] Website Redesign Pre-pre-alpha

[Dan Roberts]

Hey everyone,
I've been fixing known issues gradually and I'll post the current state
this evening. I'll be continuing work on it tomorrow.

Ian: Are you comfortable with creating social media accounts for Freenet?
Our design assumes their existence. I think a Facebook account is
worthwhile in any case.

Thanks,
Dan

On Jan 16, 2017 8:46 AM, "Ian Clarke"  wrote:

> Thanks Dan, will take a look.  Looking forward to being able to see it in
> its
> full rendered form.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 15, 2017 1:44 AM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com
> wrote:
> Hey Everybody,
>
>   I've been (and am) extremely short on time recently, but I uploaded the
>
> pelican port of the website redesign to
>
> https://github.com/Ademan-laptop/freenet-website-redesign-pelican
>
>
>
>
> At this moment it's not at parity with the Jekyll version, but I'll be
>
> continuing to work on that. I didn't want to sit on it any longer so here
>
> it is in its current state.
>
>
>
>
> Translation of content is achieved with a plugin markdown_i18n which allows
>
> us to translate pages piecemeal like we've wanted.
>
>
>
>
> After I fix some of the more glaring regressions from the pelican port I'll
>
> upload the generated site as well.
>
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dan
>
> ___
>
> Devl mailing list
>
> Devl@freenetproject.org
>
> https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
>
>
>
> Ian ClarkeStacks - Our AI will save your moneyhttp://trystacks.com/
> ___
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[freenet-dev] Website Redesign Pre-pre-alpha

[Dan Roberts]

Hey Everybody,
I've been (and am) extremely short on time recently, but I uploaded the
pelican port of the website redesign to
https://github.com/Ademan-laptop/freenet-website-redesign-pelican

At this moment it's not at parity with the Jekyll version, but I'll be
continuing to work on that. I didn't want to sit on it any longer so here
it is in its current state.

Translation of content is achieved with a plugin markdown_i18n which allows
us to translate pages piecemeal like we've wanted.

After I fix some of the more glaring regressions from the pelican port I'll
upload the generated site as well.

Thanks,
Dan
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Re: [freenet-dev] Status of web redesign?

[Dan Roberts]

The front page is working, with a small number of known issues that I think
have solutions for. The content pages (about,  download) need a bit more
work. I'll try to get the current state into github during the week, I
expect at least one more revision after that.

Thanks,
Dan

On Jan 3, 2017 8:45 PM, "Dan Roberts"  wrote:

> Hey Ian,
> I didn't end up with as much time as I'd hoped/expected, but one of my
> experiments is promising. I'm working on turning it into a first (pelican)
> iteration of the site. I'd like to have it ready Saturday to polish over
> this coming weekend.
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
>
> On Jan 2, 2017 8:19 AM, "Ian Clarke"  wrote:
>
>> Thanks Dan, were you able to make the progressed you had hoped for?
>>
>> Ian Clarke
>> Founder, The Freenet Project
>> Email: i...@freenetproject.org
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 30, 2016 4:34 PM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Unfortunately I didn't find much time between work and three different
>>> sets of family, but I believe I can carve out time this weekend. I expect a
>>> very low key new years. I have a prospective solution to my biggest pelican
>>> concern that I'm very happy with, I'll try to update again this weekend.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Dan
>>>
>>> On Dec 25, 2016 3:24 PM, "Ian Clarke"  wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks for the update Dan, merry xmas.
>>>
>>> Ian Clarke
>>> Founder, The Freenet Project
>>> Email: i...@freenetproject.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Dec 25, 2016 5:02 PM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm trying to find some time to fully exercise the parts of pelican we
>>> need. I still have some concerns and issues I ran into last weekend in my
>>> initial exploration, but I'm hopeful they're not showstoppers.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Dan
>>>
>>> On Dec 23, 2016 11:34 AM, "Ian Clarke"  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hey guys, this conversation seems to have died.
>>>
>>> Florent/Dan, are you guys on the same page about how we should proceed?
>>>
>>> Ian.
>>>
>>> Ian Clarke
>>> Founder, The Freenet Project
>>> Email: i...@freenetproject.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 5:09 PM, Ian Clarke i...@freenetproject.org wrote:
>>>
>>> On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 4:18 PM, Florent Daigniere
>>> nextg...@freenetproject.org wrote:
>>>
>>> On Sat, 2016-12-17 at 10:44 -0800, Dan Roberts wrote:
>>>
>>> > It is my impression that retaining our transifex translations is a
>>>
>>> > requirement.
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't think so (we are supposed to re-write/de-clutter the content!);
>>>
>>>
>>> I agree, I the content on the main website must be simplified
>>> dramatically relative to what we have now, focussing on the needs of those
>>> interested in downloading and using Freenet, and donating to the project.
>>> This is a commonly used approach for consumer-facing open source software
>>> (eg. https://getfirefox.com/), and I think we should emulate it.
>>>
>>> "Deeper" content, more relevant to researchers, or developers, should be
>>> migrated to a separate wiki (perhaps hosted on Github) - although as an
>>> interim measure we can keep the old site around on a different URL.  Of
>>> course we will provide links to it where appropriate from the main site so
>>> it is findable.
>>>
>>> The perfect shouldn't be the enemy of the good.  My inclination is to
>>> get the new site up ASAP, translations and content can catch up (and will
>>> be much easier with a simplified website).  I think with a website that
>>> looks really good it will also be a good motivator for people to contribute
>>> to improve it.
>>>
>>> From a devops perspective, I think an ideal situation would be to have a
>>> limited number of people that can merge pull-requests for the site (but not
>>> so limited that it proves to be a bottleneck), and then a merge to master
>>> results in an automatic roll-out of the improved site.
>>>
>>> Ian.
>>>
>>> Ian Clarke
>>> Founder, The Freenet Project
>>> Email: i...@freenetproject.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ian Clarke
>>> Founder, The Freenet Project
>>> Email: i...@freenetproject.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ian Clarke
>>> Founder, The Freenet Project
>>> Email: i...@freenetproject.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Ian Clarke
>> Founder, The Freenet Project
>> Email: i...@freenetproject.org
>>
>
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Re: [freenet-dev] Status of web redesign?

[Dan Roberts]

Hey Ian,
I didn't end up with as much time as I'd hoped/expected, but one of my
experiments is promising. I'm working on turning it into a first (pelican)
iteration of the site. I'd like to have it ready Saturday to polish over
this coming weekend.

Thanks,
Dan

On Jan 2, 2017 8:19 AM, "Ian Clarke"  wrote:

> Thanks Dan, were you able to make the progressed you had hoped for?
>
> Ian Clarke
> Founder, The Freenet Project
> Email: i...@freenetproject.org
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 30, 2016 4:34 PM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Unfortunately I didn't find much time between work and three different
>> sets of family, but I believe I can carve out time this weekend. I expect a
>> very low key new years. I have a prospective solution to my biggest pelican
>> concern that I'm very happy with, I'll try to update again this weekend.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Dan
>>
>> On Dec 25, 2016 3:24 PM, "Ian Clarke"  wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for the update Dan, merry xmas.
>>
>> Ian Clarke
>> Founder, The Freenet Project
>> Email: i...@freenetproject.org
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 25, 2016 5:02 PM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> I'm trying to find some time to fully exercise the parts of pelican we
>> need. I still have some concerns and issues I ran into last weekend in my
>> initial exploration, but I'm hopeful they're not showstoppers.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Dan
>>
>> On Dec 23, 2016 11:34 AM, "Ian Clarke"  wrote:
>>
>> Hey guys, this conversation seems to have died.
>>
>> Florent/Dan, are you guys on the same page about how we should proceed?
>>
>> Ian.
>>
>> Ian Clarke
>> Founder, The Freenet Project
>> Email: i...@freenetproject.org
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 5:09 PM, Ian Clarke i...@freenetproject.org wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 4:18 PM, Florent Daigniere
>> nextg...@freenetproject.org wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, 2016-12-17 at 10:44 -0800, Dan Roberts wrote:
>>
>> > It is my impression that retaining our transifex translations is a
>>
>> > requirement.
>>
>>
>> I don't think so (we are supposed to re-write/de-clutter the content!);
>>
>>
>> I agree, I the content on the main website must be simplified
>> dramatically relative to what we have now, focussing on the needs of those
>> interested in downloading and using Freenet, and donating to the project.
>> This is a commonly used approach for consumer-facing open source software
>> (eg. https://getfirefox.com/), and I think we should emulate it.
>>
>> "Deeper" content, more relevant to researchers, or developers, should be
>> migrated to a separate wiki (perhaps hosted on Github) - although as an
>> interim measure we can keep the old site around on a different URL.  Of
>> course we will provide links to it where appropriate from the main site so
>> it is findable.
>>
>> The perfect shouldn't be the enemy of the good.  My inclination is to get
>> the new site up ASAP, translations and content can catch up (and will be
>> much easier with a simplified website).  I think with a website that looks
>> really good it will also be a good motivator for people to contribute to
>> improve it.
>>
>> From a devops perspective, I think an ideal situation would be to have a
>> limited number of people that can merge pull-requests for the site (but not
>> so limited that it proves to be a bottleneck), and then a merge to master
>> results in an automatic roll-out of the improved site.
>>
>> Ian.
>>
>> Ian Clarke
>> Founder, The Freenet Project
>> Email: i...@freenetproject.org
>>
>>
>>
>> Ian Clarke
>> Founder, The Freenet Project
>> Email: i...@freenetproject.org
>>
>>
>>
>> Ian Clarke
>> Founder, The Freenet Project
>> Email: i...@freenetproject.org
>>
>>
>
> Ian Clarke
> Founder, The Freenet Project
> Email: i...@freenetproject.org
>
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Re: [freenet-dev] Status of web redesign?

[Dan Roberts]

Unfortunately I didn't find much time between work and three different sets
of family, but I believe I can carve out time this weekend. I expect a very
low key new years. I have a prospective solution to my biggest pelican
concern that I'm very happy with, I'll try to update again this weekend.

Thanks,
Dan

On Dec 25, 2016 3:24 PM, "Ian Clarke"  wrote:

> Thanks for the update Dan, merry xmas.
>
> Ian Clarke
> Founder, The Freenet Project
> Email: i...@freenetproject.org
>
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 25, 2016 5:02 PM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I'm trying to find some time to fully exercise the parts of pelican we
>> need. I still have some concerns and issues I ran into last weekend in my
>> initial exploration, but I'm hopeful they're not showstoppers.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Dan
>>
>> On Dec 23, 2016 11:34 AM, "Ian Clarke"  wrote:
>>
>> Hey guys, this conversation seems to have died.
>>
>> Florent/Dan, are you guys on the same page about how we should proceed?
>>
>> Ian.
>>
>> Ian Clarke
>> Founder, The Freenet Project
>> Email: i...@freenetproject.org
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 5:09 PM, Ian Clarke i...@freenetproject.org wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 4:18 PM, Florent Daigniere
>> nextg...@freenetproject.org wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, 2016-12-17 at 10:44 -0800, Dan Roberts wrote:
>>
>> > It is my impression that retaining our transifex translations is a
>>
>> > requirement.
>>
>>
>> I don't think so (we are supposed to re-write/de-clutter the content!);
>>
>>
>> I agree, I the content on the main website must be simplified
>> dramatically relative to what we have now, focussing on the needs of those
>> interested in downloading and using Freenet, and donating to the project.
>> This is a commonly used approach for consumer-facing open source software
>> (eg. https://getfirefox.com/), and I think we should emulate it.
>>
>> "Deeper" content, more relevant to researchers, or developers, should be
>> migrated to a separate wiki (perhaps hosted on Github) - although as an
>> interim measure we can keep the old site around on a different URL.  Of
>> course we will provide links to it where appropriate from the main site so
>> it is findable.
>>
>> The perfect shouldn't be the enemy of the good.  My inclination is to get
>> the new site up ASAP, translations and content can catch up (and will be
>> much easier with a simplified website).  I think with a website that looks
>> really good it will also be a good motivator for people to contribute to
>> improve it.
>>
>> From a devops perspective, I think an ideal situation would be to have a
>> limited number of people that can merge pull-requests for the site (but not
>> so limited that it proves to be a bottleneck), and then a merge to master
>> results in an automatic roll-out of the improved site.
>>
>> Ian.
>>
>> Ian Clarke
>> Founder, The Freenet Project
>> Email: i...@freenetproject.org
>>
>>
>>
>> Ian Clarke
>> Founder, The Freenet Project
>> Email: i...@freenetproject.org
>>
>>
>
> Ian Clarke
> Founder, The Freenet Project
> Email: i...@freenetproject.org
>
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Re: [freenet-dev] Status of web redesign?

[Dan Roberts]

I'm trying to find some time to fully exercise the parts of pelican we
need. I still have some concerns and issues I ran into last weekend in my
initial exploration, but I'm hopeful they're not showstoppers.

Thanks,
Dan

On Dec 23, 2016 11:34 AM, "Ian Clarke"  wrote:

> Hey guys, this conversation seems to have died.
>
> Florent/Dan, are you guys on the same page about how we should proceed?
>
> Ian.
>
> Ian Clarke
> Founder, The Freenet Project
> Email: i...@freenetproject.org
>
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 5:09 PM, Ian Clarke i...@freenetproject.org wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 4:18 PM, Florent Daigniere
>> nextg...@freenetproject.org wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, 2016-12-17 at 10:44 -0800, Dan Roberts wrote:
>>
>> > It is my impression that retaining our transifex translations is a
>>
>> > requirement.
>>
>>
>> I don't think so (we are supposed to re-write/de-clutter the content!);
>>
>>
>> I agree, I the content on the main website must be simplified
>> dramatically relative to what we have now, focussing on the needs of those
>> interested in downloading and using Freenet, and donating to the project.
>> This is a commonly used approach for consumer-facing open source software
>> (eg. https://getfirefox.com/), and I think we should emulate it.
>>
>> "Deeper" content, more relevant to researchers, or developers, should be
>> migrated to a separate wiki (perhaps hosted on Github) - although as an
>> interim measure we can keep the old site around on a different URL.  Of
>> course we will provide links to it where appropriate from the main site so
>> it is findable.
>>
>> The perfect shouldn't be the enemy of the good.  My inclination is to get
>> the new site up ASAP, translations and content can catch up (and will be
>> much easier with a simplified website).  I think with a website that looks
>> really good it will also be a good motivator for people to contribute to
>> improve it.
>>
>> From a devops perspective, I think an ideal situation would be to have a
>> limited number of people that can merge pull-requests for the site (but not
>> so limited that it proves to be a bottleneck), and then a merge to master
>> results in an automatic roll-out of the improved site.
>>
>> Ian.
>>
>> Ian Clarke
>> Founder, The Freenet Project
>> Email: i...@freenetproject.org
>>
>
>
> Ian Clarke
> Founder, The Freenet Project
> Email: i...@freenetproject.org
>
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Re: [freenet-dev] Status of web redesign?

[Dan Roberts]

On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 at 9:25 AM, Ian Clarke  wrote:

> On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 10:36 AM, Florent Daigniere
> nextg...@freenetproject.org wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 2016-12-17 at 16:11 +, Ian Clarke wrote:
>>
>> > Weren't we going to host on AWS?
>>
>>
>> I don't know, that's why I am asking...
>>
>
> Dan?  I think your input is required here.
>
> I have suggested either hugo or pelican with AWS lambda (for a
>
> completely serverless, trendy infrastructure)
>
> OR
>
> using github-pages (with jekyll) and putting some CDN in front
>
> (cloudflare, cloudfront, whatever)
>
>
> I have not offered to help maintain something ruby based.
>
>
> For clarity, you're saying you would not help to set up a CDN in front of
> github-pages because it is Ruby based?  I assume that would be ok since
> Github is administering Jekyll, not us.
>

Well unfortunately Jekyll on github-pages doesn't facilitate any usable
gettext support that I have seen. It is my impression that retaining our
transifex translations is a requirement.


> I wish it was that simple. AWS lambda doesn't support ruby as runtime...
>
> so you have to ship/maintain your own... and write the glue code in any
>
> of the languages that are supported (java, c#, node, python). You get
>
> billed when your code runs... so the naive approach of doing what you've
>
> described above can turn out to be bloody expensive (network round-trip
>
> to debian mirrors, then to gem, then to bundler, ...)
>
>
That assumes we're using AWS lambda.
>
>
> At the end of the day, I don't care... I've said it in the past; we are
>
> picking the worst and most convoluted solution possible. I've been
>
> ignored and can live with it; just don't count on me to make it happen.
>
>
> Well, if you're opposed to it then that's what we'll do! :)
>
> I don't have an axe to grind here, I'm just trying to have a discussion
> the outcome of which will hopefully be a good approach.
>
> If Dan has built his work on Jekyll then I'm worried it might be a lot of
> additional work to switch to something else like Hugo or Pelican, but
> perhaps I'm wrong about that.
>
> Ideally I'd love to outsource our hosting to Github completely to reduce
> or eliminate our devops workload, but it seems we can't do that without
> compromising on i18n.
>
> Perhaps the best solution is to switch to Hugh or Pelican and then use AWS
> lambda, assuming that can handle i18n, and assuming it won't be an
> excessive amount of work to migrate from Jekyll.
>
> Either way, Dan's input is needed here.
>

I think we can probably switch to another generator with reasonable effort,
but I'm not particularly qualified nor motivated to go out and evaluate a
bunch of alternatives. What I was wanted to get across before is that I
know exactly what must be done with Jekyll and don't really want to be the
one selecting an alternative. *As best as I can tell*, Hugo has no gettext
support, Pelican *may* have usable support through an existing i18n plugin,
but I have not evaluated it yet.

It was not my intention to reject all alternatives to Jekyll, I'm not
attached to it, but I haven't wanted to (and still don't want to) lead a
search for an alternative, and then redo the existing work. I never viewed
automatic generation of the website to be an important requirement, and I
offered to be the one to periodically run `jekyll build`, so I still
consider Jekyll to be a viable way forward.

However, if it really is an important requirement, based on what I've seen
so far I'm willing to evaluate Pelican to see if its i18n plugin can suit
our needs with reasonable effort.

Ian.
>
> Ian Clarke
> Founder, The Freenet Project
> Email: i...@freenetproject.org
>

Cheers,
Dan

>
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Re: [freenet-dev] Status of web redesign?

[Dan Roberts]

Hi Folks,

Status update. The simple jekyll plugin I wrote works, with a couple of
known issues. It will allow us to use our existing transifex translations
unmodified (something I don't think we were going to get out-of-the-box
anywhere). It depends on the ruby gettext gem. The site still needs some
massaging to match the transifex strings, but you can see the translation
work for parts of /about.de/ which is automatically generated by the
plugin. For each locales/${LOCALE}.po there will be a ${PAGE}.${LOCALE}
file generated.

Tomorrow (saturday 12-17) I'm going to fix the known issues with the
plugin, and QA the translation tags to ensure our translation keys match
what is already translated (I may consider automating it using the existing
site generator, we'll see how obnoxious it gets). I'll also be implementing
a language selector UI.

The source code is at
https://github.com/Ademan-laptop/freenet-website-redesign though beware the
history is ugly, I will be cleaning it at some point, but I wanted to be
sure to update before the weekend. Obviously with the plugin dependency it
is no longer viewable on github.

Thanks,
Dan

On Sat, Dec 10, 2016 at 1:32 PM, Dan Roberts  wrote:

> I gave a few updates on IRC but I apologize for not updating the ML, I
> didn't foresee how long I would be stalled. I've had some personal issues
> going on which ate not only my weekends but several work days of both last
> week and this week. I don't expect to lose any more time from the
> aforementioned issues but it's not impossible.
>
> I intend to finish the Jekyll plugin this afternoon so that we can use
> existing translations, the proof of concept from the other weekend worked
> well. After that we can stand it up somewhere for QA. I do need to add a
> language selector, that is not present in the design we bought so I'll use
> my best judgement and we'll move it later.
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
>
> On Sat, Dec 10, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Ian Clarke 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 10, 2016 at 9:51 AM, Florent Daigniere <
>> nextg...@freenetproject.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 2016-12-10 at 13:40 +, Ian Clarke wrote:
>>> >  Hey guys, it's been quite a while at this point, and we're still
>>> > stuck with the old website.
>>> > What's the current status of getting the new site up?
>>>
>>> I can't make any progress until there is something to deploy... I
>>> haven't heard from Dan.
>>>
>>
>> That's worrying...
>>
>>
>>> > If necessary we should spend some more of our donation to make this
>>> > happen (we've already invested in getting the original design done,
>>> > and yet we've received no benefit from it yet).
>>> >
>>>
>>> Agreed; a big piece of it is the content re-design (for which I haven't
>>> seen any plan).
>>>
>>
>> We start by categorizing our different audiences, I think this has been
>> discussed.  Users, donors, and developers are the major categories IIRC.
>> IMHO the website should focus on the first two, and this will probably
>> require a limited amount of content.  For developers a companion wiki is
>> probably the best approach.
>>
>> Ian.
>>
>> --
>> Ian Clarke
>> Founder, The Freenet Project
>> Email: i...@freenetproject.org
>>
>
>
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Re: [freenet-dev] Status of web redesign?

[Dan Roberts]

I gave a few updates on IRC but I apologize for not updating the ML, I
didn't foresee how long I would be stalled. I've had some personal issues
going on which ate not only my weekends but several work days of both last
week and this week. I don't expect to lose any more time from the
aforementioned issues but it's not impossible.

I intend to finish the Jekyll plugin this afternoon so that we can use
existing translations, the proof of concept from the other weekend worked
well. After that we can stand it up somewhere for QA. I do need to add a
language selector, that is not present in the design we bought so I'll use
my best judgement and we'll move it later.

Thanks,
Dan

On Sat, Dec 10, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Ian Clarke  wrote:

>
>
> On Sat, Dec 10, 2016 at 9:51 AM, Florent Daigniere <
> nextg...@freenetproject.org> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 2016-12-10 at 13:40 +, Ian Clarke wrote:
>> >  Hey guys, it's been quite a while at this point, and we're still
>> > stuck with the old website.
>> > What's the current status of getting the new site up?
>>
>> I can't make any progress until there is something to deploy... I
>> haven't heard from Dan.
>>
>
> That's worrying...
>
>
>> > If necessary we should spend some more of our donation to make this
>> > happen (we've already invested in getting the original design done,
>> > and yet we've received no benefit from it yet).
>> >
>>
>> Agreed; a big piece of it is the content re-design (for which I haven't
>> seen any plan).
>>
>
> We start by categorizing our different audiences, I think this has been
> discussed.  Users, donors, and developers are the major categories IIRC.
> IMHO the website should focus on the first two, and this will probably
> require a limited amount of content.  For developers a companion wiki is
> probably the best approach.
>
> Ian.
>
> --
> Ian Clarke
> Founder, The Freenet Project
> Email: i...@freenetproject.org
>
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Re: [freenet-dev] Internationalization on the new site

[Dan Roberts]

Hi Florent,
I understand you're averse to the ruby ecosystem, and for good reason,
however I see jekyll+plugins as the path of least resistance between us and
a functioning site. I want to constrain the scope of this work, and I am
afraid that a survey of static site generators and translation tools will
further expand the scope. This evening I believe I can implement a simple
jekyll plugin that will allow us to re-use the existing translations, which
I believe to be a requirement of this work.

Thanks,
Dan

On Sun, Nov 27, 2016 at 2:23 PM, Florent Daigniere <
nextg...@freenetproject.org> wrote:

> There is a misunderstanding here... either we can satisfy ourselves with
> github pages' version of jekyll and plugins... or we won't use jekyll at
> all. The last thing we need is a jekyll plugin that we can't use on
> github pages!
>
> Ian has arranged for the project to have a debit card ... so now we have
> more options open.
>
> My favourite would be to explore what can be done with pontoon.
>
> Florent
>
> On Sun, 2016-11-27 at 12:23 -0800, Dan Roberts wrote:
> > We had some discussions in IRC over the past week around the i18n,
> > modifying content vs deploying as-is, and gettext. Since we dropped
> > github
> > pages as our target, I'm looking into writing a small plugin for
> > Jekyll
> > today to aid i18n support, I'm also going to double check that there's
> > no
> > existing plugin that's appropriate. Provided jekyll allows it, I think
> > its
> > should be a reasonably simple plugin and provide the quickest way
> > forward.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Dan
> >
> > On Nov 27, 2016 9:21 AM, "Ian Clarke"  wrote:
> >
> > > Guys, where are we on this?  It's been several weeks since the last
> > > update.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 1:10 AM, x...@freenetproject.org wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Wednesday, November 02, 2016 10:52:39 PM Dan Roberts wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I'm doing my best to avoid any "design" decisions, so I had no
> > > > > plan to
> > > > > include the bank balance, but it definitely has value.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The project is way too large to operate solely as a volunteer
> > > > thing, we
> > > > need
> > > >
> > > > to have a plan how to get more funds.
> > > >
> > > > Also, getting funds has been difficult recently, so IMHO it should
> > > > be
> > > >
> > > > permanently visible on the index page.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Personally I think there are two aspects:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 1. The site should permanently at least in small size say
> > > > something like
> > > > "Our
> > > >
> > > > current funds will pay N months of development".
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The dollar value itself is irrelevant to potential donors as
> > > > outsiders
> > > > cannot
> > > >
> > > > judge how much dollars development costs. Also "We have $20 000"
> > > > will
> > > > sound
> > > >
> > > > like very much to non-IT-folks and discourage donations, while IT
> > > > people
> > > > know
> > > >
> > > > that this is very little in terms of how expensive IT is.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 2.
> > > >
> > > > Realistically we run out of money once a year, which is rather
> > > > frequent,
> > > > so we
> > > >
> > > > already need to plan for a more large request for donations during
> > > > the
> > > > time
> > > >
> > > > where our money is low.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > A donation progress bar like with the old site IMHO is the best
> > > > approach.
> > > >
> > > > It should span the site in full width.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Optionally, a small version of the bar could be used at 1.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > If you don't feel like being capable of doing this with the design
> > > > templates
> > > >
> > > > you have, can you maybe ask Ian to request something from the
> > > > original
> > > >
> > > > designer?___
> > > >
> > > > Devl mailing list
> > > >
> > > > Devl@freenetproject.org
> > > >
> > > > https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ian Clarke
> > > Stacks - Our AI will save your money
> > > http://trystacks.com/
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ___
> > Devl mailing list
> > Devl@freenetproject.org
> > https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
>
> ___
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Re: [freenet-dev] Internationalization on the new site

[Dan Roberts]

We had some discussions in IRC over the past week around the i18n,
modifying content vs deploying as-is, and gettext. Since we dropped github
pages as our target, I'm looking into writing a small plugin for Jekyll
today to aid i18n support, I'm also going to double check that there's no
existing plugin that's appropriate. Provided jekyll allows it, I think its
should be a reasonably simple plugin and provide the quickest way forward.

Thanks,

Dan

On Nov 27, 2016 9:21 AM, "Ian Clarke"  wrote:

> Guys, where are we on this?  It's been several weeks since the last update.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 1:10 AM, x...@freenetproject.org wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, November 02, 2016 10:52:39 PM Dan Roberts wrote:
>>
>> > I'm doing my best to avoid any "design" decisions, so I had no plan to
>>
>> > include the bank balance, but it definitely has value.
>>
>>
>> The project is way too large to operate solely as a volunteer thing, we
>> need
>>
>> to have a plan how to get more funds.
>>
>> Also, getting funds has been difficult recently, so IMHO it should be
>>
>> permanently visible on the index page.
>>
>>
>> Personally I think there are two aspects:
>>
>>
>> 1. The site should permanently at least in small size say something like
>> "Our
>>
>> current funds will pay N months of development".
>>
>>
>> The dollar value itself is irrelevant to potential donors as outsiders
>> cannot
>>
>> judge how much dollars development costs. Also "We have $20 000" will
>> sound
>>
>> like very much to non-IT-folks and discourage donations, while IT people
>> know
>>
>> that this is very little in terms of how expensive IT is.
>>
>>
>> 2.
>>
>> Realistically we run out of money once a year, which is rather frequent,
>> so we
>>
>> already need to plan for a more large request for donations during the
>> time
>>
>> where our money is low.
>>
>>
>> A donation progress bar like with the old site IMHO is the best approach.
>>
>> It should span the site in full width.
>>
>>
>> Optionally, a small version of the bar could be used at 1.
>>
>>
>>
>> If you don't feel like being capable of doing this with the design
>> templates
>>
>> you have, can you maybe ask Ian to request something from the original
>>
>> designer?___
>>
>> Devl mailing list
>>
>> Devl@freenetproject.org
>>
>> https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
>>
>
>
> Ian Clarke
> Stacks - Our AI will save your money
> http://trystacks.com/
>
>
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Re: [freenet-dev] Internationalization on the new site

[Dan Roberts]

On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 2:26 AM, Florent Daigniere <
nextg...@freenetproject.org> wrote:

> On Tue, 2016-11-01 at 01:05 -0700, Dan Roberts wrote:
> > On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 7:01 AM, Florent Daigniere
> >  wrote:
> > > On Sun, 2016-10-30 at 09:37 -0700, Dan Roberts wrote:
> > > > At this point I consider the hosting platform to a blocker for
> > > > completing the website redesign.
> > >
> > >
> > > You shouldn't.
> >
> > I'm a bit concerned that i18n support will be a significant chunk of
> > work, and it depends on this decision.
> >
>
> I went ahead and have rolled out cloudflare on an under-used
> subdomain... for us to test the setup. That's a free mitm-as-a-service
> that was relatively effort-less to setup... and that will take care of
> maintaining our certificates.
>
> Try it out:
> https://javadoc.freenetproject.org/
> it's served from https://github.com/freenet/javadoc/
>
>
> > > > Shall I proceed for the moment assuming that we're using github
> > > > pages?
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes; We might put something in front, but that's irrelevant... we
> > > will
> > > proxy the content if need be.
> > >
> > > > If we abandon github pages, that frees me to identify and select a
> > > > more i18n friendly site generator, so I haven't put much more work
> > > > into the Jekyll version. At present the Jekyll version's English
> > > > translation is effectively complete, however I do think some
> > > content
> > > > curation will be necessary to better fit the new format.
> > >
> > >
> > > Can you push what you have so far somewhere?
> > >
> > > Florent
> >
> > Sure, I had meant to do this a while ago:
> >
> > https://ademan-laptop.github.io/freenet-website-redesign
> >
> > (I don't allow my travel laptop to push to my primary github account)
> >
> > There are a couple of known issues with the above link, and possibly a
> > few lurking issues due to different paths on github. I can resolve the
> > low hanging fruit tomorrow, and a couple of larger issues which I'll
> > be hacking on this week (paypal form, footer).
> >
>
>
> Do you have any plan to handle the bank-balance stuff? Or is that gone
> in the new design?


I'm doing my best to avoid any "design" decisions, so I had no plan to
include the bank balance, but it definitely has value.


>
> > WRT to Hugo, Hugo looks fine to me, but it doesn't appear to be a
> > significant improvement for i18n support over Jekyll (I know you had
> > additional reasons for preferring it). If we're Ok with whole page
> > translations for content, however, I think I may as well proceed with
> > i18n on Jekyll for the moment.
> >
>
>
> I'm fine with Jekyll as long as we get github to run it for us (ie: that
> you manage to use it without any additional plugin/specific
> configuration).


Hrm, I had assumed we were removing the github restrictions if we were
considering Hugo. If we're retaining github restrictions there's not much
in Jekyll's favor besides inertia (there is a bit of inertia I suppose) and
relative popularity.


>
> > We need to decide what to do with regards to the social media links
> > peppered throughout the design. Stripping them leaves the header and
> > footer looking fairly barren, and I think there may be some value in
> > having some extra social media presence (even if it's little more than
> > a link back to freenetproject.org ).
> >
>
>
> I will defer to those that know better :)


> Florent
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Re: [freenet-dev] Internationalization on the new site

[Dan Roberts]

Hi Arne,
I wasn't aware of that but I definitely am interested. Per the original
design, the social buttons are only links anyways, so there shouldn't be
any privacy concern there, but if we want to embed a like button, I think
we ought to employ your solution.

Thanks,
Dan

On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 1:02 PM, Arne Babenhauserheide 
wrote:

>
> Dan Roberts writes:
> > We need to decide what to do with regards to the social media links
> > peppered throughout the design. Stripping them leaves the header and
> footer
> > looking fairly barren, and I think there may be some value in having some
> > extra social media presence (even if it's little more than a link back to
> > freenetproject.org ).
>
> Do you know social share privacy?
>
> - translated original: http://pixelmechanics.de/pm-blog/plus-2-button-
> integration-social-share-privacy.html
> - wired report: https://www.wired.com/2013/03/social-sharing-buttons-that-
> respect-your-visitors-privacy/
> - instructions: http://panzi.github.io/SocialSharePrivacy/
>
> That provides privacy-respecting social media buttons.
>
> Best wishes,
> Arne
> --
> Unpolitisch sein
> heißt politisch sein
> ohne es zu merken
>
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Re: [freenet-dev] Internationalization on the new site

[Dan Roberts]

On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 7:01 AM, Florent Daigniere <
nextg...@freenetproject.org> wrote:

> On Sun, 2016-10-30 at 09:37 -0700, Dan Roberts wrote:
> > At this point I consider the hosting platform to a blocker for
> > completing the website redesign.
>
>
> You shouldn't.


I'm a bit concerned that i18n support will be a significant chunk of work,
and it depends on this decision.


>
> > Shall I proceed for the moment assuming that we're using github
> > pages?
>
>
> Yes; We might put something in front, but that's irrelevant... we will
> proxy the content if need be.
>
> > If we abandon github pages, that frees me to identify and select a
> > more i18n friendly site generator, so I haven't put much more work
> > into the Jekyll version. At present the Jekyll version's English
> > translation is effectively complete, however I do think some content
> > curation will be necessary to better fit the new format.
>
>
> Can you push what you have so far somewhere?
>
> Florent


Sure, I had meant to do this a while ago:

https://ademan-laptop.github.io/freenet-website-redesign

(I don't allow my travel laptop to push to my primary github account)

There are a couple of known issues with the above link, and possibly a few
lurking issues due to different paths on github. I can resolve the low
hanging fruit tomorrow, and a couple of larger issues which I'll be hacking
on this week (paypal form, footer).

WRT to Hugo, Hugo looks fine to me, but it doesn't appear to be a
significant improvement for i18n support over Jekyll (I know you had
additional reasons for preferring it). If we're Ok with whole page
translations for content, however, I think I may as well proceed with i18n
on Jekyll for the moment.

We need to decide what to do with regards to the social media links
peppered throughout the design. Stripping them leaves the header and footer
looking fairly barren, and I think there may be some value in having some
extra social media presence (even if it's little more than a link back to
freenetproject.org ).

Thanks,
Dan
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Re: [freenet-dev] Internationalization on the new site

[Dan Roberts]

Bumping this. My apologies for the lack of update on the website, the past
three weeks I've been working 60+ hours a week preparing for a trade show.

At this point I consider the hosting platform to a blocker for completing
the website redesign.

Shall I proceed for the moment assuming that we're using github pages?
If we abandon github pages, that frees me to identify and select a more
i18n friendly site generator, so I haven't put much more work into the
Jekyll version. At present the Jekyll version's English translation is
effectively complete, however I do think some content curation will be
necessary to better fit the new format.

Thanks,
Dan

On Oct 15, 2016 1:05 PM, "Ian Clarke"  wrote:

>

> On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 11:22 AM, Florent Daigniere
nextg...@freenetproject.org
> wrote:
> > Almost all users will have JS.
>
>
> Our user-base is less likely than the average to have it enabled, that's
>
> why I am pointing it out here.
>
>
>
>
> Perhaps.
> Or S3/cloudfront or something else. Speaking of which, do we plan to
>
> drop SSL support too? Or the domain that we have been using for a decade
>
> and a half?
>
>
>
>
> From
https://help.github.com/articles/securing-your-github-pages-site-with-https/
>
> "HTTPS is not supported for GitHub Pages using custom domains."
>
>
>
>
> That is definitely troubling, is this the first time this problem has been
> raised?  I don't recall seeing anyone mention this before.
> S3/cloudfront are options if we keep the site static, but then that would
have
> the limitations you've already pointed out with respect to
internationalization.
> Google App Engine should be able to address the internationalization
problem, it
> does (or at least it did once) have the limitation that the URL needs to
begin
> with "www", but we can set up a redirect if necessary for that.
> Ian.
>
> Ian Clarke
> Founder, The Freenet Project
> Email: i...@freenetproject.org
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Re: [freenet-dev] Winning design selected

[Dan Roberts]

Is there any chance I can get some sort of preliminary PSD today?  I'd
really like to work on it over the weekend, come Monday I think I can
showcase enough progress to justify going volunteer-only (but I'm not
asking for a commitment to that decision)

I also think our translation needs will make selecting a professional very
difficult and/or expensive, and we may end up needing to do it ourselves
anyways.

Cheers,
Dan

On Sep 8, 2016 8:24 AM, "Ian Clarke"  wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 7:21 AM, Steve Dougherty st...@asksteved.com
> wrote:> What is your timeline for the whole site, or was two weeks your
> target?
> We
>
> > have a massive amount of copy to rewrite (and translations to redo?), and
>
> > pages to restructure, or do you plan for us to get up and running with
> the
>
> > old verbiage and gradually refine it? I do have some familiarity with
>
> > Jekyll but I have no experience with translating Jekyll sites, I'm
>
> > concerned about that. I do have a couple of ideas though.
>
>
>
>
> I'd propose using the existing copy; anything else would introduce more
>
> delay and cause the new site to launch with less translation available.
>
>
>
>
> While I want to get the new site launched ASAP, I have to disagree on this
> point.  I think if we don't simplify the site significantly then it will
> negate
> a lot of the benefit of the redesign.  We can reintroduce content over
> time, but
> should do it in a way that it keeps the site looking simple for newbies
> (while
> allowing them to drill down to detail if they need it).
>
>
> The community (and me because I get lots of source string clarification
>
> questions) have put a lot of effort into the translations already. The
>
> Spanish translations are complete; the French one has excellent (82%
>
> website; 97% overall) coverage.
>
>
>
>
> This is all very valuable, but it will be very limiting if we require that
> we
> use all of that material on day-one of the new website.  We should launch
> with
> something simple, and then reintroduce this content over time, being
> careful to
> keep the site looking clean and simple for new users.
> We can keep the old site on an alternate domain so nothing is lost -
> perhaps
> doing some kind of smart 404 redirect from the new site (although I'm not
> sure
> if Jekyll has that flexibility - requires investigation).
>
>
> Whatever technology we use - be it through you or someone for hire - I'd
> like to be sure it has support for localization in a way that makes it
>
> easy for translators to contribute. Being a Ruby thing, it looks like
>
> Jekyll uses YAML, which Transifex supports. Failing that, perhaps one of
>
> the formats Pontoon supports? [1][2]
>
>
>
>
> Agreed, I have limited experience with localization technologies, but it
> should
> be a requirement for anyone that does the PSD -> Jekyll conversion that we
> support localization.
> Ian.
> Ian Clarke
> Founder, The Freenet Project
> Email: i...@freenetproject.org
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Re: [freenet-dev] Winning design selected

[Dan Roberts]

Unfortunately I'm a groomsman in a wedding next saturday, but I still have
full availability on other weekends if planned ahead, and a few hours a day
(depending). If we get the design (or maybe the preliminary design psd,
just something better than cutting things out of an unlayered png) before
this weekend, I can do significant work this weekend, and identify any
major risks to the timeline. We could even check in Monday 9/12 and decide
how to proceed. I'm pretty confident I can finish over 9/10-9/23, however,
I'm *extremely* confident I can finish it 9/10-9/25 (16 days, but gives me
a second full weekend)

What is your timeline for the whole site, or was two weeks your target? We
have a massive amount of copy to rewrite (and translations to redo?), and
pages to restructure, or do you plan for us to get up and running with the
old verbiage and gradually refine it? I do have some familiarity with
Jekyll but I have no experience with translating Jekyll sites, I'm
concerned about that. I do have a couple of ideas though.

Thanks,
Dan

On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 8:25 PM, Ian Clarke  wrote:

> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 10:13 PM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com
> wrote:
> I can tell from your email though, that you place a high value on
>
> turnaround time, so on the other hand what are the competing bids in time
>
> and money for this work? If there's an external deadline I'm unaware of,
>
> that certainly changes things. Otherwise, especially given the length of
>
> time things have remained...less-than-ideal... I see *very* little risk,
>
> and good rewards, for trying volunteer work first.
>
>
> I have not yet sought bids, but from prior experience I'm confident we
> would get
> this done in less than 14 days (probably less than 7) if we paid for it.
> I agree that everything has taken too long, but I want this redesign to be
> the
> exception, and hopefully set a new precedent for the future.  How
> confident are
> you that you could do this within 14 days?  Or, to put it another way,
> what is
> your availability over the next 2 weeks?
> Ian.
> Ian Clarke
> Founder, The Freenet Project
> Email: i...@freenetproject.org
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Re: [freenet-dev] Winning design selected

[Dan Roberts]

Hi Ian,

I just want to contribute where I can to ensure we stretch these funds the
best we can. Since we have the ability to do it for free (unlike the design
work), I think we should.

I've done similar conversions for a good number of one-off event landing
pages (+0-2 auxiliary pages) for my previous employer as a minor duty. If
you want to see something I suppose when I get home I can link my
in-progress port of the Winterface theme to Fred.

Luckily though, it's extremely easy to evaluate the quality of the result,
if the community doesn't like what I produce, by all means pay somebody,
and all it cost was a little bit of time. On the other hand, this will save
a substantial amount of money for this cash strapped project.

I can tell from your email though, that you place a high value on
turnaround time, so on the other hand what are the competing bids in time
and money for this work? If there's an external deadline I'm unaware of,
that certainly changes things. Otherwise, especially given the length of
time things have remained...less-than-ideal... I see *very* little risk,
and good rewards, for trying volunteer work first.

Cheers,
Dan

On Sep 5, 2016 11:48 AM, "Ian Clarke"  wrote:

> On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 1:04 PM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com
> wrote:
> > The designer will now need feedback as she works to create a final set of
>
> > Photoshop files, which will include both the landing page, and a "detail"
>
> page
>
> > which will serve as a template for other pages on the site.
>
> > After that, I have identified a number of coders who can take these
> files,
>
> > convert to HTML, and then publish them on Github using
>
> https://jekyllrb.com/.
>
>
>
>
> I want to reiterate that I don't think we should spend any money on
>
> translating from photoshop to html, unless it's a *very* small amount. The
>
> ~$200 you've mentioned before is about the highest price where I think
>
> "well maybe it's worth it to have somebody else do this". This is a common
>
> skill, and I am personally willing to volunteer in this regard. At worst we
>
> could pay somebody later if volunteers can't get it done satisfactorily. (I
>
> don't believe a delay like that would be damaging)
>
>
>
>
> If we have a volunteer with the appropriate skillset and time availability
> that
> is willing to do it then great, I agree we shouldn't spend the money.
> However,
> if this becomes a blocker or if the volunteer isn't working to a high
> standard
> then I think it is worth it to spend money on it.  Honestly, I think it
> will pay
> for itself in a few months with increased donations.
> That is generous of you to volunteer, can you point to examples of work
> you've
> done in the past of this nature?  How much time can you devote to it, and
> on
> what timescale?  Are you comfortable working with jekyll?  Do you think
> jekyll
> is the right tool for the job here?
>
>
> Unlike developing the actual design, we can easily evaluate whether us
> volunteers have adequately converted the photoshop to html+jekyll. We paid
>
> designers for their aesthetic sense, but with this conversion the community
>
> has all of the skills required to both execute this and evaluate this.
>
>
>
>
> I agree, provided that this doesn't bog down the process, I would hope to
> have
> the new site up in 2 weeks or less.
> Ian.
> Ian Clarke
> Founder, The Freenet Project
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Re: [freenet-dev] Winning design selected

[Dan Roberts]

On Sep 4, 2016 11:26 AM, "Ian Clarke"  wrote:
>
> Based on everyone's feedback, I have selected the winning design:
> https://99designs.com/web-design/contests/reimagine-
freenet-website-branding-647851/entries/114

Great! I'm happy with this one.

> The designer will now need feedback as she works to create a final set of
> Photoshop files, which will include both the landing page, and a "detail"
page
> which will serve as a template for other pages on the site.
> After that, I have identified a number of coders who can take these files,
> convert to HTML, and then publish them on Github using
https://jekyllrb.com/.

I want to reiterate that I don't think we should spend any money on
translating from photoshop to html, unless it's a *very* small amount.  The
~$200 you've mentioned before is about the highest price where I think
"well maybe it's worth it to have somebody else do this". This is a common
skill, and I am personally willing to volunteer in this regard. At worst we
could pay somebody later if volunteers can't get it done satisfactorily. (I
don't believe a delay like that would be damaging)

Unlike developing the actual design, we can easily evaluate whether us
volunteers have adequately converted the photoshop to html+jekyll. We paid
designers for their aesthetic sense, but with this conversion the community
has all of the skills required to both execute this and evaluate this.

> Note that the text of the site will all be editable afterwards, and so it
is not
> really important for the designer to worry about that.  The designer is
more
> concerned with visual elements, iconography, etc.
> To make it easier to provide feedback to the designer, I have created a
page
> using Redpen, where people can click and comment on parts of the design:
> https://redpen.io/pk616b4782ce9e0098
> We'll need to get this feedback to the designer quickly so she can
incorporate
> it.
> Ian.
> Ian Clarke
> Founder, The Freenet Project
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Re: [freenet-dev] Design finalist selection

[Dan Roberts]

I think that the Design Injector design from the original poll (was #4
https://images-contests.99static.com/i9qEuSXg9V4kBMxTRzin9ft3i6M=/filters:quality(100)/99designs-contests-attachments/74/74662/attachment_74662663
), and the original webDAE (#1
https://images-contests.99static.com/hyk3qOBuaQFI4QUa04Nk4Ov_XOA=/filters:quality(100)/99designs-contests-attachments/74/74639/attachment_74639880
) belong in this poll.

At the very least #4 was a close second in the first poll and I don't
believe has been in subsequent polls.



On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 5:53 AM, Ian Clarke  wrote:

> Another poll, this is to select the finalists.
> Remember, don't get too hung-up on the specific text, this can be changed
> easily, and we can also still request changes from the designer we
> eventually
> select as a winner. You're also welcome to add comments which I can pass
> along
> to the respective designers.
> https://99designs.com/contests/poll/1ndb0s?urlcategory=web-design
> Ian Clarke
> Founder, The Freenet Project
> Email: i...@freenetproject.org
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Re: [freenet-dev] 99designs contest is up

[Dan Roberts]

Are you calling for feedback from the community right now? I am not able to
view the submitted designs. This seems to be on purpose since it is a
"blind contest" to prevent designers from influencing each other. Are you
planning to share screenshots or is there another procedure in place?

Thanks,
Dan

On Aug 13, 2016 9:02 AM, "Ian Clarke"  wrote:

Here it is: http://99d.me/c/dvvv
Just 4 submissions so-far, I can rate the designs, if anyone disagrees
strongly
with a rating or would like to communicate a comment to a designer please
make
your argument here and I'll try to incorporate people's feedback.
Ian.
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org
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Re: [freenet-dev] About the project

[Dan Roberts]

All else being equal, I'm all for cutting costs, but things don't appear
equal. Migrating the wiki to Github could be a massive undertaking. I
participated in exactly this migration with the Namecoin project and it was
a royal pain. Github's mediawiki syntax support was incomplete at the time,
and pandoc failed to completely translate the pages, leaving heaps of
manual work for us, even in Namecoin's small wiki.

How big is the maintenance burden? How much are these costs? When funds
were nearly depleted, I recall someone mentioned server costs were low
enough that we could operate effectively indefinitely on the remaining ~3k.
If true, this sounds like a ton of work to increase our dependency and
trust on/of third parties.

I am also quite opposed to further centralizing in Github, but that is
mostly offset by the security concerns regarding running our own mediawiki.

Thanks,
Dan

On Aug 11, 2016 7:28 AM, "Ian Clarke"  wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 9:50 AM, Florent Daigniere
> nextg...@freenetproject.org wrote:
> Two points:
>
>
>
>
> 1) The benefits you are talking about (scalability, security), will
>
> only exist if we get rid of the old instances of the wiki. 7y+ in the
>
> previous migration we are still running the "old-old" wiki.
>
> https://old-wiki.freenetproject.org/HomePage
>
>
>
>
> Are you suggesting that we finally get rid of them (both old and
>
> current wikis)?
>
>
> Yes, we shouldn't be operating our own servers when others are willing to
> do it
> for free. Also, they already appear to be archived:
> https://web.archive.org/web/20150926002329/https://old-
> wiki.freenetproject.org/HomePageCan we set a date in stone today as of
> when that will
>
>
> happen?
>
>
> Why don't you set a date since you're the one that would do it?
> 2) This is a re-hash of a discussion we had 7 years ago. At the time,
>
>
> one of the main point that was raised is that we can *not* migrate the
>
> content due to unclear licensing... and we can't get rid of it because
>
> "we shouldn't throw away contributions".
>
>
>
>
> Can you clarify what you are suggesting?
>
>
> I certainly don't think we should be constrained in any way by some kind of
> hoarder-like desire to never throw anything away, especially when
> everything is
> already archived by a 3rd party.
>
>
> Ian.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 9:50 AM, Florent Daigniere
> nextg...@freenetproject.org wrote:
> On Wed, 2016-08-10 at 14:25 +, Ian Clarke wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 3:37 AM, Florent Daigniere
>
> > nextg...@freenetproject.org wrote:
>
> > > It's not like if there was no history here...
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I'm really not clear on what point you're trying to make…
>
> > Ian.
>
> >
>
>
>
>
> Two points:
>
>
>
>
> 1) The benefits you are talking about (scalability, security), will
>
> only exist if we get rid of the old instances of the wiki. 7y+ in the
>
> previous migration we are still running the "old-old" wiki.
>
> https://old-wiki.freenetproject.org/HomePage
>
>
>
>
> Are you suggesting that we finally get rid of them (both old and
>
> current wikis)? Can we set a date in stone today as of when that will
>
> happen?
>
>
>
>
> 2) This is a re-hash of a discussion we had 7 years ago. At the time,
>
> one of the main point that was raised is that we can *not* migrate the
>
> content due to unclear licensing... and we can't get rid of it because
>
> "we shouldn't throw away contributions".
>
>
>
>
> Can you clarify what you are suggesting?
>
>
>
>
> Ticking the box to enable the wiki on github is a 30s job, so is
>
> deleting the two wiki instances... Migrating the content over isn't.
>
>
>
>
> Florent___
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Re: [freenet-dev] Should we just go ahead and redesign the website?

[Dan Roberts]

+1 to <2.5k allocation to website redesign.

Converting a design into html and CSS is not worth paying for in my
opinion. I'm happy to volunteer my time for that task, it's also not a rare
skill.

Thanks,
Dan

On Aug 6, 2016 9:03 AM, "Ian Clarke"  wrote:

> When I've raised the subject of a website redesign in the past, the only
> voices
> I heard in response were opposed to it.
> But it appears that some people agreed with me yet remained silent at the
> time,
> giving me the misleading impression that I had a minority view.
> I'm happy to carve off up-to $5k of that $25k right now, commission a new
> design
> on 99designs (probably around $1k), get a service like
> https://thesiteslinger.com/ to convert it to HTML (probably a few hundred
> $$ -
> I've worked with them before, they're good), and from there we can set it
> up,
> perhaps using Github Pages.
> I think we should reduce the amount of content on the main website
> significantly, limiting it to user-focussed content like explaining what
> Freenet
> is and how to use it.
> Developer docs and other more detailed information can be migrated to
> Github
> wiki and linked from the main website.
> This can be handled separately to the prioritization process.
> Thoughts?
> Ian.
> Ian Clarke
> Founder, The Freenet Project
> Email: i...@freenetproject.org
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[freenet-dev] Fwd: GETD#4 will happen in Berlin on 22 & 23, 2016 - Register Now!

[Dan Roberts]

Hi Everyone,
I just found out about this. I know a few of us are in Germany, though
I don't know exactly how convenient this is for them, or indeed any details
about the event itself. Regardless, this looks like it could be another
decent outreach opportunity so I wanted to share it. I don't know how
successful our presence at the decentralized web submit was, but it was far
more successful than not attending...

Cheers,
Dan
-- Forwarded message --
From: "GETDecentralized" 
Date: Jul 11, 2016 8:02 AM
Subject: GETD#4 will happen in Berlin on 22 & 23, 2016 - Register Now!
To: 
Cc:

GETDecentralized will happen in San Francisco from
> March 31 to April 2 2015 - Register Now!
> View this email in your browser
> 
>
> 
> *Berlin* *Summit & Hackathon**  ~  *July 22 & 23, 2016
> We are excited to bring* GETD#4* to you!
> In partnership with Agora Collective and Ouishare we have been building a
> community and ecosystem of decentralized projects. Every GETD connects
> local projects with the latest knowledge and technology from around the
> world.
> See who you will meet...
>
>
> REGISTER NOW
> 
> We are really looking forward to welcoming you at GETD#4! Join us and
> connect to amazing people and awesome projects. Be part of the
> decentralization movement!
>
> 
> The latest developments within the DAO-community (the first Decentralized
> Autonomous Organization on the Ethereum blockchain) provide an excellent
> showcase for discussing control, ownership, governance and group values.
>
> 
>
> Art is an integral part of how we define ourselves and our relationship
> with each other and the world. Adaptation is an initiative aimed at
> envisioning the interstices of art and technology, utilizing the Internet
> of Things as means to sense and visualize both the physical and the virtual
> world.
> The Location...
> Agora Collective
> Mittelweg 50
> 12053 Berlin-Neukölln
> Germany
> MORE INFO
> 
> PARTNERS
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
> SHARE THE EVENT WITH YOUR FRIENDS
>
> 
> Share
> 
>
> 
> Tweet
> 
>
> 
> Share
> 
>
> 
> +1
> 
>
> 
> Forward
> 
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>
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Re: [freenet-dev] Decentralized Web Summit in San Francisco, by the Internet Archive, June 8th

[Dan Roberts]

Hi xor,
 Thanks for the kind words. I think hiding behind semi-real-time text
messaging has allowed me to seem a bit better than I really am ;-) . But
regardless, *if nobody objects* I'm happy to be an emissary as best I can,
especially since I admit at least I'm probably better than nobody. I'll
look into my availability for that time.

Cheers,
Dan
On Apr 19, 2016 1:50 AM,  wrote:

> On Monday, April 11, 2016 07:29:55 AM Dan Roberts wrote:
> > I'm happy to attend (I commute farther for school every day), but I'm not
> > the representative Freenet needs to be there to answer difficult
> questions.
> > I also know I have a commitment that week, but I don't *think* it
> > conflicts...
>
> I beg to differ :) You do well in IRC team discussion, you're both
> technically
> and socially qualified.
> And most people who are new to Freenet are happy with a basic explanation
> how
> it works, and then quickly drift away into discussions about whether it is
> politically correct to have true freedom of speech :D
> So don't expect them to even ask that much technical details. The social
> aspects are where you can sell it, and the arguments there aren't
> difficult.
> If you want to know all I've gathered over the years, I'd be happy if you
> could figure out what the proper place in the Wiki would be, and point me
> to
> it on IRC.
>
> In case that doesn't convince you yet - we used to have this kind of public
> attention: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RC6R6GeAqM
> And nowadays, we barely hit any conferences. Partly due to decreased public
> interest, but probably mostly due to lack of people to just do it.
> So go for it :)
>
> If you're willing: Can you contact them soonish? We always do things too
> late,
> better do it ASAP. (Less than 2 months of time left.)
> If you can't go there, it would be nice if you could at least give a
> definite
> no, so maybe someone else can go.
> Considering how much data they store, the Internet Archive must have
> *massive*
> funding, so this is a big opportunity.
>
> In either case: Thanks for considering this! :)
>
>
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Re: [freenet-dev] Decentralized Web Summit in San Francisco, by the Internet Archive, June 8th

[Dan Roberts]

I'm happy to attend (I commute farther for school every day), but I'm not
the representative Freenet needs to be there to answer difficult questions.
I also know I have a commitment that week, but I don't *think* it
conflicts...

Cheers,
Dan

On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 6:11 AM,  wrote:

> Sorry, I forgot the obvious:
>
> I don't live in the US, so I don't plan to attend.
> So the questions would be: Is someone willing to attend? Can you mail the
> folks about it?
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Re: [freenet-dev] Would you mentor for GSoC? Please write today!

[Dan Roberts]

Hi Arne,
 Per our IRC conversation, my summer availability is a bit up in the
air, but I nonetheless expect to have enough time for the commitment we
discussed. I'm happy to help out the project where I can. I offer to mentor
as well.

Cheers,
Dan

On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 5:33 AM, Arne Babenhauserheide 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I’m currently doing the application of Freenet for GSoC, and I need to
> give a count of mentors.
>
> If you would like to mentor a project for GSoC 2016, please write today,
> so I can fill out the application tomorrow.
>
> Best wishes,
> Arne
> --
> Unpolitisch sein
> heißt politisch sein
> ohne es zu merken
>
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[freenet-dev] Would you mentor for GSoC? Please write today!

[Dan Roberts]

Hi everybody,

Arne send out a call for GSoC mentors yesterday, however I found it ended
up in gmail's junk filter, along with several other legitimate messages
from this mailing list. By his request, I've copied the contents of his
email below.

---

I’m currently doing the application of Freenet for GSoC, and I need to
give a count of mentors.

If you would like to mentor a project for GSoC 2016, please write today,
so I can fill out the application tomorrow.

Best wishes,
Arne

---

Cheers,
Dan
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Re: [freenet-dev] What blocks Freenet adoption?

[Dan Roberts]

On Sun, Jan 3, 2016 at 5:26 PM, Arne Babenhauserheide  wrote:
> I asked myself that question. These are my answers. Please add yours!
>


> Note: This is just for listing. Please don’t discuss these before January 
> 16th.

Quoted for emphasis, at this point let's just compile a list of what
each of us considers to be high priority issues, perhaps we can find
shared areas of high priority work to be done.

I did write a little bit about some of the points, consider them
additions rather than the start of discussion, please.

>
> What blocks Freenet adoption?
>
> - Our themes look clunky and our web-interface is slow. Why is access
>   to bookmarked activelinks slow? Why isn’t 404 sent instantly (for
>   bookmarked activelinks) -> remove the checkbox “has an activelink?”,
>   just check instead. Prefetch activelinks at random intervals.
>   -> FreeStyle announced in FLIP to be working on new themes.

+1 to all of these. Winterface is a potential boon here. While I've
done a bit of work on it, I don't feel like I have a list of important
features that need implementing, and at least a couple of the bug
reports I found were already fixed.

** I invite comments about specific particularly ugly parts of FProxy
that Winterface can/should cover **

> - Hackers in-the-know reject Darknet due to the non-implemented fix
>   for the Pitch Black Attack. It’s been simulated several years ago
>   and just needs implementation.
>
> - Our installers often fail -> Work is already being done for Windows
>   and OSX (short of being deployed) and for Debian packages. Gentoo
>   mostly works (except for a hard-to-trace compression bug).
>
> - No working Darknet invites. We say “use darknet”, but advise
>   against that (“only connect to …”) and don’t make it easy and
>   useful. And new Darknet users get horrible performance. I invited
>   about 5-7 people over the past years, and at least 3 left again
>   because Darknet with a single friend is slow. For the others I
>   moderated the noderef exchange with my existing friends by manually
>   sending them each others references. To get adoption via Darknet,
>   this has to be fast on the initial connection without additional
>   manual interaction ← requirement.

+1

> - WoT consumes too many resources (build 18 is faster, but my node
>   OOMs now, also without Sone).

+1 if it's possible to improve significantly

> - New users don’t see what they can do with Freenet.

+ 1

also +1 to Steve's point about objectionable content limiting adoption
(we can't do anything about this without compromising our philosophy,
but perhaps we can improve the perception for new users) I think these
points are related, if Freenet offers a compelling feature list, but
also has some objectionable content, that situation is much more
likely to retain users.

> We don’t fix
>   that, because starting to use WoT takes over an hour, so most of our
>   services can’t be shown to new users.

+ 1 I believe the process of bootstrapping trust can have its user
experience significantly improved

> -> recover flircp and add it as
>   official plugin, active by default with random name per startup
>   to avoid timing attacks. Autoconnect to #public or such.

+1 depending on details

> - Does not work on mobile phones -> now that db4o is gone, it could be
>   worthwhile to change that. Using only while connected to power and
>   wifi should give 8-16 hours uptime (given that people plug in their
>   phones at night, at work and in trains), which is more than what
>   half the nodes in Freenet have. Freenet can cope with 30% backoff,
>   so being offline 30% of the time should work.

+ 0.5

> - Opennet starts slowly. Our seednodes are overloaded. -> announce
>   through previous peers.

+ 1 assuming the security implications are acceptable, I assume
smarter people in the project already know what those implications are

> - Our website looks much better now, but it still needs serious design
>   work to get on par with modern sites. It’s at a point where I’m
>   happy to show it, but not yet at a point where someone who randomly
>   hits the site instantly feels a desire to try Freenet.

+ 1

> As you see, most of these can be fixed.
>
> Please add what I missed.
>
> Best wishes,
> Arne
> --
>   Writing about Freenet
> http://draketo.de/stichwort/freenet
>
>
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Re: [freenet-dev] Freenet Rebooted (without rewriting everything, pay for opennet)

[Dan Roberts]

I am strongly against this pay-for-opennet strategy until we've exhausted
other funding options. To my knowledge we have only contacted 3 potential
donors out of many! Frankly, I doubt we could even put together a
successful kickstarter campaign at this point, given that we can't bother
to write a few letters. If we care about funding, our immediate goal should
be to finish the donation letter and start tailoring it to individual
donors. (I have not focused on this either, mea culpa)

I realize the motivation for pay-for-opennet is also to improve security,
but others have already raised enough concerns about that aspect.

Cheers,
Dan
Am Montag, 30. November 2015, 15:29:25 schrieb Matthew Toseland:
> 3. Opennet is not secure unless users pay for introduction.

Even regular E-Mail providers, G+ and Facebook did not find a way to
get a significant number of users to pay — for a service which is
clearly essential for todays communication. Why do you think people
would pay for Freenet?

People pay for VPNs because VPNs promise them faster, anonymous
copyright infringement — I’ve seen the ads on torrent sites. The
Freenet Project cannot promise that without encouraging copyright
infringement — which we don’t.

And our communication sucks — with this thread a perfect example of
why it sucks. As much as I’m irked by the often toxic behavior of
niqnaq: this is something he’s right on. We have an existing
userbase. These users are our greatest asset. We might not like all of
them, but at the same time there are many awesome people using
Freenet. We’re neglecting them. We’re not doing the easy fixes.

Instead we’re saying “let’s make you pay to keep using Freenet”.

We need more people running Darknet, so why don’t we think of a way to
secure Opennet via Darknet? Darknet connections are the only thing at
which attackers don’t win trivially.

And it might turn out that for funding, this pull request is the most
important of them all: https://github.com/freenet/website/pull/28

Best wishes,
Arne
--
Celebrate with ye beauty and gather yer friends for a Pirate Party!
→ http://1w6.org/english/flyerbook-rules#pirate-party ←


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Re: [freenet-dev] Bank account status

[Dan Roberts]

Hi Ian,
Thanks for reviewing the document. My rationale for the repetition
was that the reader should quickly know what the message is about, but
we should also close with a summary of what we're asking them for. I'm
working on trimming out the mentions in the middle. Maybe if the
document can be trimmed to a shorter size, the end repetition is no
longer necessary though? The other thing I wanted to be sure to do, is
not just say "To whom it may concern: hey, we need money", we need to
directly ask them to donate.

Maybe I'm off-base on those points, but that was my rationale anyways.

Cheers,
Dan

On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 6:08 AM, Ian Clarke  wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 1:01 AM, Dan Roberts  wrote:
>>
>>
>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EohzxhrgM1Ky4CaKpk72WiUNepFeT5krdReEKxDyL8o/edit?usp=sharing
>>
>> I've annotated lots of things I don't like with comments, I'm sure people
>> will find many more things they hate. That's fine, be brutal. It's probably
>> also too long...
>
>
> A great start, but definitely way too long, and quite repetitive (we tell
> them we need funds about 6 times!).  We should remove any sentence that is
> repetitive or otherwise redundant.
>
> Ian.
>
>
> --
> Ian Clarke
> Founder, The Freenet Project
> Email: i...@freenetproject.org
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Re: [freenet-dev] Bank account status

[Dan Roberts]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EohzxhrgM1Ky4CaKpk72WiUNepFeT5krdReEKxDyL8o/edit?usp=sharing

I've annotated lots of things I don't like with comments, I'm sure people
will find many more things they hate. That's fine, be brutal. It's probably
also too long...

Note I typically leave each sentence on a new line for my own convenience
when editing in Vim, now that it's on google docs it doesn't really
matter...

I'm not really attached to anything specific in there, but do note I think
it's important we provide SOME kind of vision of the future to look forward
to.

Cheers,
Dan

P.S. If anyone is willing, I'm still hoping for review on the Hackathon
announcement's piratepad...

On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 11:20 AM, Ian Clarke  wrote:

> That sounds good, recommend that you paste it into a Google Doc and allow
> people to edit or make suggestions (you'll need to adjust the sharing
> settings)
>
> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 1:11 PM, Dan Roberts  wrote:
>
>> I offered on IRC to write a preliminary donation request message to base
>> our solicitations on. I've revised it twice as of last night, and I think
>> after one more revision this evening and I'll open it up to everyone else
>> for comment (~10PM PST). I'm not particularly happy with it at the moment,
>> but actually it may generate more interest if everyone hates it ;-). From
>> there we can revise it and begin adapting the message to different donors
>> (I believe potential donors deserve a personal request, the purpose of my
>> draft is only to get the ball rolling and serve as a starting point)
>>
>> This is not meant as a replacement for exploring indiegogo/kickstarter
>> though. Something like that would still be good, it just strikes me as a
>> mid-term project, not a short term effort to get back on track.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Dan
>> On Nov 16, 2015 10:54 AM, "xor"  wrote:
>>
>>> On Monday, November 16, 2015 10:52:16 AM Ian Clarke wrote:
>>> > I am pretty convinced that it would be a bad idea to allow Xor to
>>> continue
>>> > working if the project doesn't have sufficient funds.
>>> >
>>> > Aside from any potential legal problems, imagine what our pitch to
>>> donors
>>> > becomes at that point - "Hey, donate money so that we can pay off our
>>> > debts".  Not exactly a compelling pitch :/
>>> >
>>> > And meanwhile Xor is potentially getting himself into a difficult
>>> financial
>>> > situation.
>>>
>>> Argh, I had just messaged you that I'd like to postpone the final
>>> discussion
>>> of my offer "continue working with payment delayed as interest-free debt"
>>> until Thursday :|
>>> I need to figure out some real life stuff related to that.
>>>
>>> But well, my offer still is available though.
>>> Freenet is more important to me than some temporary financial hassle.
>>>
>>> Thursday will just make me figure out how bad a "no" to my offer would
>>> be for
>>> me, which is why I'd prefer to not hear the decision until then.
>>>
>>> But, as said elsewhere, even if my offer is not accepted, I will:
>>> 1) *not* seek a different job for now (= a year at least probably) and
>>> use my
>>> free time to resolve the major real life house cleanup/selling for my
>>> mom.
>>> 2) stay available to resume my job once we have funding - my mom for sure
>>> would accept me to reduce my efforts for her at any time.
>>> 3) voluntarily continue replying on IRC / the mailing lists.
>>> 4) voluntarily at least provide very basic maintenance for Web of Trust /
>>> Freetalk to prevent user frustration. So please keep bug reports
>>> directed at
>>> me :)
>>>
>>> Nevertheless, please do notice that I cannot "officially" provide
>>> volunteering
>>> anymore due to my life situation. I am only offering this to keep the
>>> project
>>> alive by dealing with urgent stuff.
>>> There is years work of worth at my mom's to be done, and if I do invest
>>> my
>>> spare motivation for volunteering, it should be for her first (yes,
>>> she'll
>>> pay me food, but that's about it :). So please just keep on mind that it
>>> would
>>> be a benefit if I could return to paid work ASAP, as earning money is
>>> something I could justify to have a similarly significant priority.
>>> I'll try to do my part in en

Re: [freenet-dev] Bank account status

[Dan Roberts]

I offered on IRC to write a preliminary donation request message to base
our solicitations on. I've revised it twice as of last night, and I think
after one more revision this evening and I'll open it up to everyone else
for comment (~10PM PST). I'm not particularly happy with it at the moment,
but actually it may generate more interest if everyone hates it ;-). From
there we can revise it and begin adapting the message to different donors
(I believe potential donors deserve a personal request, the purpose of my
draft is only to get the ball rolling and serve as a starting point)

This is not meant as a replacement for exploring indiegogo/kickstarter
though. Something like that would still be good, it just strikes me as a
mid-term project, not a short term effort to get back on track.

Cheers,
Dan
On Nov 16, 2015 10:54 AM, "xor"  wrote:

> On Monday, November 16, 2015 10:52:16 AM Ian Clarke wrote:
> > I am pretty convinced that it would be a bad idea to allow Xor to
> continue
> > working if the project doesn't have sufficient funds.
> >
> > Aside from any potential legal problems, imagine what our pitch to donors
> > becomes at that point - "Hey, donate money so that we can pay off our
> > debts".  Not exactly a compelling pitch :/
> >
> > And meanwhile Xor is potentially getting himself into a difficult
> financial
> > situation.
>
> Argh, I had just messaged you that I'd like to postpone the final
> discussion
> of my offer "continue working with payment delayed as interest-free debt"
> until Thursday :|
> I need to figure out some real life stuff related to that.
>
> But well, my offer still is available though.
> Freenet is more important to me than some temporary financial hassle.
>
> Thursday will just make me figure out how bad a "no" to my offer would be
> for
> me, which is why I'd prefer to not hear the decision until then.
>
> But, as said elsewhere, even if my offer is not accepted, I will:
> 1) *not* seek a different job for now (= a year at least probably) and use
> my
> free time to resolve the major real life house cleanup/selling for my mom.
> 2) stay available to resume my job once we have funding - my mom for sure
> would accept me to reduce my efforts for her at any time.
> 3) voluntarily continue replying on IRC / the mailing lists.
> 4) voluntarily at least provide very basic maintenance for Web of Trust /
> Freetalk to prevent user frustration. So please keep bug reports directed
> at
> me :)
>
> Nevertheless, please do notice that I cannot "officially" provide
> volunteering
> anymore due to my life situation. I am only offering this to keep the
> project
> alive by dealing with urgent stuff.
> There is years work of worth at my mom's to be done, and if I do invest my
> spare motivation for volunteering, it should be for her first (yes, she'll
> pay me food, but that's about it :). So please just keep on mind that it
> would
> be a benefit if I could return to paid work ASAP, as earning money is
> something I could justify to have a similarly significant priority.
> I'll try to do my part in ensuring resuming of my job by helping at the
> fundraising efforts.
>
> > If we want
> > Xor to keep working, we need a strategy for raising more money.  I think
> > this strategy will need to be to achieve specific goals that we lay out.
>
> I'd say we already have a strategy:
>
> 0a) Finish the fundraising bar on the website. Done already by the
> volunteers!
> Thanks again.
>
> 0b) Maybe deploy the next Freenet release so my work of the past 6 months
> is
> available to the users actually. Would be polite to provide the result of
> the
> previous money to the users before asking for more money. The code is
> finished
> from my side, it is just waiting for a fred release to be bundled with.
> Steve
> needs to decide whether this can happen soon, or will take too long. If it
> takes to long, we can ignore this step.
>
> 1) Put a news article on website titled "We've run out of money". Notice: I
> suggested the prerequisite of first writing a huge list of news sites to
> submit it to. We need to do this *first* before putting the article up
> because: "News" contains "new". If it takes us too long to submit the
> article,
> it will be old, and thus news sites will ignore it. So we need to figure
> out
> who to send it to first.
>
> 2) Submit the article to many news sites.
>
> 3) Ask those entities directly for funds:
> https://wiki.freenetproject.org/Fundraising
>
> I will try to help with all of the above, if not do them myself. But to be
> honest I would be happy if I don't have to do it alone: I'm still a
> programmer, not a marketing guy, so my social skills are limited.
> Also, there are potentially thousands of entities who could be interested
> in
> funding us, thanks to the NSA scandal. Probably too much work for one
> person
> to talk to them all.
>
> > Perhaps we could explore a KickStarter - but that would only work if it
> is
> > to achieve something big and externally very visibl

Re: [freenet-dev] Freenet Hackathon?

[Dan Roberts]

Hi Everyone,
As I mentioned on IRC, I want to finish drafting the Hackathon
announcement ASAP so I can get it to my uni's ACM (along with a short
"what is freenet?").

We started a piratepad about a week ago for the announcement (which
I'd like to get up on freenetproject.org when it's complete):
http://piratepad.net/lhsiYf5m5Q and I believe I've implemented
Prometheas' changes. Does anyone have further changes they'd like to
add? I believe in the process I also addressed Steve's concern about
not over-specifying what people should work on.

The announcement links to here: https://wiki.freenetproject.org/Wiki/Hackathon

Does anyone have any additions, corrections, or subtractions they want
to apply there?

Thanks everyone.

Cheers,
Dan

On Sun, Nov 1, 2015 at 6:20 PM, Dan Roberts  wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
> It's been a week without any objections to the dates.
>
> Therefore, the hackathon will be December 19-20th.
>
> The topic remains an open discussion, however.
>
> Arne proposed Winterface, which I am interested in. However, I do have
> some questions:
>
> - How many people really know the Winterface code base well enough to
> help us newbies keep moving?
> - Is it more useful to work on FProxy's UI or Winterface in the medium term?
>  * Can anyone comment about the merits of working on Winterface
> versus removing warts from FProxy's UI from a "utility" perspective?
> In other words, is the core team open to "blessing" Winterface in some
> fashion if it became polished enough? If Winterface, for one reason or
> another, is doomed to remain an experimental plugin for the
> foreseeable future, perhaps it's more useful to shave warts off of
> FProxy's UI?
>
> It sounds like there are a number of veterans interested in hacking on
> various projects that interest them. So long as there are veterans
> around who are knowledgeable about the code us newbies will be
> touching, I'm just happy that people will be hacking.
>
> Announcement Wording
> ===
>
> I'd like to advertise the hackathon on freenetproject.org. Assuming
> the appropriate project leaders approve of this, my first pass of the
> text is:
>
> The Freenet Project is holding a hackathon the weekend of December
> 19th and 20th.
> The hackathon is open to developers of all skill levels, and will be held
> remotely over [IRC](help.html#irc) as well as on Freenet's anonymous IRC
> system, FLIP (link?).
>
> If you would like to participate, please let us know (HOW?), and
> suggest a topic to
> hack on. On Friday, December 18th, we would like for all participants to
> sign up on the Bug Tracker (?), have Freenet installed, and be ready
> for the hackathon!
>
> Of course, feel free to join us on our [Mailing
> List](https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl) or
> on [IRC](help.html#irc) any time and introduce yourself.
>
> -
>
> Problems with the above:
>
> - General wording is awkward
> - What contact methods should be listed for RSVP? (Contact on ML only?)
> - If Winterface ends up being the topic, should anyone sign up for the
> bug tracker?
>
>
> Finally, should phrasing this announcement be coordinated off-list?
>
> Thanks everyone and cheers,
> Dan
>
> On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 2:09 PM, Dan Roberts  wrote:
>> I can commit to December 19-20th. If anybody has a strong objection to
>> those dates please speak up soon, otherwise I'd like to consider those
>> dates fixed.
>>
>> Regardless of date, does anyone have an opinion on topics?
>> - Steve made a good point that UI code is probably a good topic for
>> newbies, as it generally shouldn't require deep knowledge of Freenet.
>> - Dean also mentioned just generally "bug squashing", I think I'd
>> prefer to be slightly more focused but it could work well.
>> - I don't believe localization should be a primary focus of this
>> hackathon, but it might be a good secondary topic, or topic of a
>> future hackathon.
>> - If the veteran-to-newbie ratio is high, perhaps some deeper topics
>> could be attempted. We'll know closer to the date what to expect. If
>> that were the situation, do any veterans have some particular bugs
>> they'd want to attempt?
>>
>> Any other suggestions?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Dan
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 3:14 PM, xor  wrote:
>>> On Friday, October 23, 2015 08:26:39 AM Dan Roberts wrote:
>>>> Hi Steve,
>>>> Thanks for proposing a date, unfortunately I actually have final
>>>> exams the week of December 14th so I have very limi

Re: [freenet-dev] Thoughts on website

[Dan Roberts]

So I filed a bug for improving the wording:

https://bugs.freenetproject.org/view.php?id=6708

I also started one suggestion for alternative wording of the first
carousel item. Like I said in the bug report itself, I'm not
particularly fond of what I proposed, but hopefully some of it is
interesting and/or useful for settling on some good text to make a
strong, positive impression on new visitors.

We also should probably articulate what ideas we want to convey in
each item first, before deciding on the final wording. (But I don't
see why we can't do both simultaneously to some degree, but agreeing
on goals will help us evaluate wording against those goals)

It might be more convenient to have a wiki page or a piratepad for
drafting these "blurbs". If anyone has a preference on that, please
create it and link it from the bug report.

Cheers,
Dan

P.S. I found that I can't make any changes to the original report (or
don't see how), is it possible to give me that permission WITHOUT
giving me permission to modify other people's bugs?

On Sun, Nov 8, 2015 at 6:51 PM, Steve Dougherty  wrote:
> On 11/08/2015 09:38 PM, Ian wrote:
>> On Sun, Nov 8, 2015 at 6:34 PM, Dan Roberts  wrote:
>>>
>>> Since
>>> someone on reddit compared us to Tor, and seeing as Tor is also a very
>>> technical project that needs to explain itself to laypeople, perhaps
>>> we could take some lessons from how they organize their messaging.
>>>
>>
>> That's a great idea.  I2P's website is also pretty slick, I think we can
>> get some good ideas from it too: https://geti2p.net/en/
>
> Agreed; I2P's website is nice too. It was actually one of the sites I
> had in mind as a role model, but it ended up not being involved in the
> redesign.
>
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Re: [freenet-dev] Thoughts on website

[Dan Roberts]

I accidentally replied off-list first. Oops...

On Sun, Nov 8, 2015 at 9:12 AM, Arne Babenhauserheide  wrote:
> Am Sonntag, 8. November 2015, 08:55:50 schrieb Ian:
>> I didn't choose not to bring this up earlier, my opinion is based in-part
>> on the feedback that we only received after the site went live.  That
>> prompted me to do some research on color schemes which solidified my view
>> that light on dark hurts readability.
>
> If this is just the result of doing research now, then I wouldn’t
> consider it consolidated — especially not consolidated enough to
> topple all the design-work done on the new design and begin something
> completely different. For design it’s not enough to just read some
> studies. You wouldn’t tell me that I cannot design a wind-turbine in a
> given way after reading a few articles about physics, right?
>
> Light on dark or dark on light is a minor point. A well designed bright
> on dark site beats any half-assed dark on bright site. A good bright on
> dark colorscheme beats any mediocre dark on bright colorscheme.
>
> So please let us stop the bikeshedding discussion. We’re working on
> realizing the important points of the feedback — for example “your
> download page does not ask me to download the software” and “I don’t
> understand how your tool helps me in the first 10 seconds”.

It seems to me, our messaging was the most criticized aspect of the
website. Of all our messaging, the highest priority messaging should
be that seen in the "first 10 seconds" you're referring to. Since
someone on reddit compared us to Tor, and seeing as Tor is also a very
technical project that needs to explain itself to laypeople, perhaps
we could take some lessons from how they organize their messaging.

https://www.torproject.org/

It's worth noting that Tor also primarily notes its features rather
than "what it is", which is something we received criticism for.
Though it does provide a non-technical description near the top:

"Tor is free software and an open network that helps you defend
against traffic analysis, a form of network surveillance that
threatens personal freedom and privacy, confidential business
activities and relationships, and state security."

Frankly, I'd argue we want to be even more concise than that, but I
think it's probably better than our first slider in the carousel. I
don't really think any of the carousel items is good enough as an
"elevator pitch", each one focuses on a particular feature, rather
than the whole. I think I'm going to open a couple of issues on github
around this (unless we're trying to keep website bugs in mantis?).

Cheers,
Dan

> Best wishes,
> Arne
> --
> Ich hab' nichts zu verbergen – hab ich gedacht:
>
> - http://draketo.de/licht/lieder/ich-hab-nichts-zu-verbergen
>
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[freenet-dev] Aaron Swartz Day Hackathon

[Dan Roberts]

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/11/aaron-swartz-hackathon-weekend-your-chance-hack-better-world

There's a hackathon this weekend  for Aaron Swartz day. I doubt there's any
point in reaching out regarding this year, I certainly couldn't commit to
participating on such short notice, but perhaps for next year? Does anyone
have any comments on pursuing participation from this hackathon next year?

Cheers,
Dan
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Re: [freenet-dev] Thoughts on website

[Dan Roberts]

I think much of the confusion can be rectified by removing the extra
vertical space above the donation bar, which is a known issue (if
nobody does it, I'm doing it this weekend). It sounds to me like the
issue is essentially that users aren't seeing any content initially,
just the donation bar.

Alternatively, we can place it lower of course, perhaps add a sub-menu
item for it, and put it near the bottom.

I proposed in IRC, we should clean up the download page (which was
part of the feedback) and put the donation bar on the download page,
and perhaps put the donation bar in a less prominent place on the
index.

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 1:40 PM, Ian  wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Steve Dougherty  wrote:
>
>> Noted. That sort of feedback would have been much more helpful back when
>> the redesign was in testing.
>>
>
> Better late than never.  That feedback is partially based on external
> feedback - eg. the Reddit comments - which we didn't have back then.
>
> Also, I think the current site is worse than the version during testing due
> to the placement of the donation bar, which it is clear is causing
> significant confusion.
>
> Ian.
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Re: [freenet-dev] Thoughts on website

[Dan Roberts]

+1 from me for mentioning 501c3 status near the button, or mentioning it
earlier on the donate page (or both).

On Nov 4, 2015 7:39 AM, "Michael Grube"  wrote:
>
> Should the website maybe also mention Freenet's 501c3 status near the
> donation bar?
> On Nov 4, 2015 10:34 AM, "Ian Clarke"  wrote:
>
> > I like the donation bar, and the website is a huge improvement.
> >
> > However, I'm still very concerned about how much blank space there is on
> > our front page, while you have to scroll down to see any kind of real
> > explanation of what Freenet is.  The bulk of the information is below
the
> > fold.  I really think the layout is all wrong here, and given that it's
the
> > landing page, it is absolutely critical that we get it right.
> >
> > I'm also not a fan of the scrollbox as the primary means to explain what
> > Freenet is (it get's price of place in the middle of the page).  I find
it
> > pretty cumbersome.  It might be good off to the side, but not right in
the
> > middle of the first page people see (surrounded by mostly blank space).
> >
> > Can anyone think of any other well-designed website that has so much
empty
> > space above the fold when the page is first loaded?  I guess you could
say
> > that Google does, but they have far less explaining to do.
> >
> > I've submitted it for feedback here:
> >
> >
https://www.reddit.com/r/design_critiques/comments/3ri38h/we_recently_redesigned_our_website_would_love/
> >
> > Ian.
> >
> > --
> > Ian Clarke
> > Founder, The Freenet Project
> > Email: i...@freenetproject.org
> > ___
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Re: [freenet-dev] Freenet website & optimization

[Dan Roberts]

Agreed. It's been there on all versions of donation bar, and I haven't
diagnosed that yet.

Cheers,
Dan

On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 9:45 AM, Juiceman  wrote:
> On Nov 4, 2015 9:54 AM,  wrote:
>>
>> First of all, very good how the donation money bar on the website
> currently is - https://freenetproject.org/index.html
>> Clear improvement to the vague donation time bar, which wasn't really
> motivating to donate as such and by it's boring small design.
>>
>> Suggestion:
>> 1. Place the donation money bar below the first download button on the
> main page. It's weird to hold up the hand even before offering the product.
>> I could imagine that after said re-organization, the fact that the
> horizontal section containing prize and 'motivation section' is asymmetric
> will have a
>> slightly less bad effect. One way or the other, the asymmetry is not
> that tragic. No need to worry.
>> 2. Let the 'motivation section' giving reasons why to use Freenet rotate,
> so that every 12 seconds the displayed reason switches automatically.
>>
>>
>> Greetings,
>> Torben Lechner
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>
> I like the new website.
>
> The donation bar is crowded on my phone. It could be wider and/or round the
> donated amount to nearest whole dollar.
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Re: [freenet-dev] A bold idea for discussion: "Freenet 2"

[Dan Roberts]

I'm nobody, and nobody should listen to me, but here's my 2 cents
anyways. I expressed something like this on IRC a few days ago. I'm
also new so I may be missing relevant project history.

I don't believe Freenet has realized much of its potential utility at
present. Therefore, I believe the way for Freenet to bring the most
utility to the most people, given the available development capacity,
is to mature the existing plugin ecosystem around existing Freenet,
and expand the feature set provided. (When I say "integrate into fred"
I mean via plugins)

Specifically, in roughly this order:

1. Integrate something like FMS into fred, possibly by fixing
freetalk. In my opinion a threaded discussion system is a more
effective and flexible mode of communication than microblogging.
Really you can microblog in a threaded discussion system as well.
2. Integrate something like OpenBazaar into fred. I imagine this could
be something of a "killer app" for Freenet as it exists today. The
world seems to be hungry for a decentralized marketplace, and Freenet
can deliver on that with fairly minimal effort in my opinion.
3. Integrate something like infocalypse into fred, with a github-like
UI for managing projects, tracking bugs, and collaborating. Consider
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_of_GitHub as my justification
for that need (there's also censorship BY github). It's also possible
that #2 can/should depend on this. This would be a huge undertaking,
so perhaps some sort of minimum useful subset of this would be good
instead.

In my opinion as an interested outsider/someone trying to involve
himself in the project, I'm not in favor of "Freenet 2" at this point.
I believe development efforts are better applied against making
Freenet more useful to more people. Strategically, I believe #2 in
particular has the potential to attract a lot more developer attention
which could in turn facilitate a "Freenet 2" effort in the future (or
a code cleanup). I further believe that #2 could potentially attract
funding to the project. OpenBazaar has a fair amount of funding,
indicating interest and available money.

I wouldn't presume to tell anyone where they should expend their
development effort, but this is just my two cents, do with it as you
will.

Cheers,
Dan

On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 10:10 AM, Michael Grube  wrote:
> Bold indeed.
>
> Necessary, in my opinion. The complexity that the project will ultimately
> face due to disparate and poorly documented code will eventually outweigh
> the benefits even of holding on to current users.
>
> The currently complex code also means that Freenet may become a security
> joke, which is not acceptable.
>
> My contributions have been limited but I believe this would be a step in
> the right direction.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
> On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 1:00 PM, Ian  wrote:
>
>> For those that appear to be craving a "bold new strategy", one thing I've
>> proposed in the past would be to put the main Freenet codebase in
>> "maintenance mode", and throw our resources behind
>> http://tahrirproject.org/
>> (possibly renaming it "Freenet 2" since Tahrir is a terrible name).
>>
>> Tahrir addresses several key concerns:
>>
>>- The people we actually want to help, those in China, Iran, etc, often
>>have very constrained bandwidth.  Tahrir is designed for this, Freenet
>> is a
>>bandwidth hog
>>- Tahrir is designed for a Twitter/Facebook type use-case
>>("microblogging"), which has proven very powerful in terms of promoting
>>political change
>>- It's a fresh-ish codebase, much smaller, although needs some cobwebs
>>blown off
>>- Can incorporate a mixnet, but actually better suited to a mixnet than
>>Tor because latency is less of an issue
>>
>> Clearly, this would not be a direct successor to Freenet, it would not be
>> backwards compatible, and would be designed for a different (but perhaps
>> more current) use-case.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> Ian.
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Re: [freenet-dev] Freenet Hackathon?

[Dan Roberts]

Hi Everyone,
It's been a week without any objections to the dates.

Therefore, the hackathon will be December 19-20th.

The topic remains an open discussion, however.

Arne proposed Winterface, which I am interested in. However, I do have
some questions:

- How many people really know the Winterface code base well enough to
help us newbies keep moving?
- Is it more useful to work on FProxy's UI or Winterface in the medium term?
 * Can anyone comment about the merits of working on Winterface
versus removing warts from FProxy's UI from a "utility" perspective?
In other words, is the core team open to "blessing" Winterface in some
fashion if it became polished enough? If Winterface, for one reason or
another, is doomed to remain an experimental plugin for the
foreseeable future, perhaps it's more useful to shave warts off of
FProxy's UI?

It sounds like there are a number of veterans interested in hacking on
various projects that interest them. So long as there are veterans
around who are knowledgeable about the code us newbies will be
touching, I'm just happy that people will be hacking.

Announcement Wording
===

I'd like to advertise the hackathon on freenetproject.org. Assuming
the appropriate project leaders approve of this, my first pass of the
text is:

The Freenet Project is holding a hackathon the weekend of December
19th and 20th.
The hackathon is open to developers of all skill levels, and will be held
remotely over [IRC](help.html#irc) as well as on Freenet's anonymous IRC
system, FLIP (link?).

If you would like to participate, please let us know (HOW?), and
suggest a topic to
hack on. On Friday, December 18th, we would like for all participants to
sign up on the Bug Tracker (?), have Freenet installed, and be ready
for the hackathon!

Of course, feel free to join us on our [Mailing
List](https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl) or
on [IRC](help.html#irc) any time and introduce yourself.

-

Problems with the above:

- General wording is awkward
- What contact methods should be listed for RSVP? (Contact on ML only?)
- If Winterface ends up being the topic, should anyone sign up for the
bug tracker?


Finally, should phrasing this announcement be coordinated off-list?

Thanks everyone and cheers,
Dan

On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 2:09 PM, Dan Roberts  wrote:
> I can commit to December 19-20th. If anybody has a strong objection to
> those dates please speak up soon, otherwise I'd like to consider those
> dates fixed.
>
> Regardless of date, does anyone have an opinion on topics?
> - Steve made a good point that UI code is probably a good topic for
> newbies, as it generally shouldn't require deep knowledge of Freenet.
> - Dean also mentioned just generally "bug squashing", I think I'd
> prefer to be slightly more focused but it could work well.
> - I don't believe localization should be a primary focus of this
> hackathon, but it might be a good secondary topic, or topic of a
> future hackathon.
> - If the veteran-to-newbie ratio is high, perhaps some deeper topics
> could be attempted. We'll know closer to the date what to expect. If
> that were the situation, do any veterans have some particular bugs
> they'd want to attempt?
>
> Any other suggestions?
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
>
> On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 3:14 PM, xor  wrote:
>> On Friday, October 23, 2015 08:26:39 AM Dan Roberts wrote:
>>> Hi Steve,
>>> Thanks for proposing a date, unfortunately I actually have final
>>> exams the week of December 14th so I have very limited availability
>>> that weekend. I was also hoping to try to rally some people from my
>>> university, so the weekend before finals week is doubly difficult.
>>> However, realistically, I think I'd be lucky to attract more than 2-3
>>> interested students anyways, so that may not really matter, especially
>>> if Dec 12-13 works best for others.
>>
>> I would be unhappy if you didn't participate! :) You've done very good at
>> acquiring lots of knowledge during the IRC discussions, and you should get
>> your chance to be able to finally hit the keyboard with code :)
>>
>> What about Dec 19 & 20?
>> People are anyway more likely to have vacation then than the weekend before,
>> so it might be a better date for everyone?
>>
>> Greetings
>> ___
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>> Devl@freenetproject.org
>> https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
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Re: [freenet-dev] Freenet Hackathon?

[Dan Roberts]

I can commit to December 19-20th. If anybody has a strong objection to
those dates please speak up soon, otherwise I'd like to consider those
dates fixed.

Regardless of date, does anyone have an opinion on topics?
- Steve made a good point that UI code is probably a good topic for
newbies, as it generally shouldn't require deep knowledge of Freenet.
- Dean also mentioned just generally "bug squashing", I think I'd
prefer to be slightly more focused but it could work well.
- I don't believe localization should be a primary focus of this
hackathon, but it might be a good secondary topic, or topic of a
future hackathon.
- If the veteran-to-newbie ratio is high, perhaps some deeper topics
could be attempted. We'll know closer to the date what to expect. If
that were the situation, do any veterans have some particular bugs
they'd want to attempt?

Any other suggestions?

Thanks,
Dan

On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 3:14 PM, xor  wrote:
> On Friday, October 23, 2015 08:26:39 AM Dan Roberts wrote:
>> Hi Steve,
>> Thanks for proposing a date, unfortunately I actually have final
>> exams the week of December 14th so I have very limited availability
>> that weekend. I was also hoping to try to rally some people from my
>> university, so the weekend before finals week is doubly difficult.
>> However, realistically, I think I'd be lucky to attract more than 2-3
>> interested students anyways, so that may not really matter, especially
>> if Dec 12-13 works best for others.
>
> I would be unhappy if you didn't participate! :) You've done very good at
> acquiring lots of knowledge during the IRC discussions, and you should get
> your chance to be able to finally hit the keyboard with code :)
>
> What about Dec 19 & 20?
> People are anyway more likely to have vacation then than the weekend before,
> so it might be a better date for everyone?
>
> Greetings
> ___
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> Devl@freenetproject.org
> https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
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Re: [freenet-dev] Freenet Hackathon?

[Dan Roberts]

Hi Steve,
Thanks for proposing a date, unfortunately I actually have final
exams the week of December 14th so I have very limited availability
that weekend. I was also hoping to try to rally some people from my
university, so the weekend before finals week is doubly difficult.
However, realistically, I think I'd be lucky to attract more than 2-3
interested students anyways, so that may not really matter, especially
if Dec 12-13 works best for others.

Cheers,
Dan

On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 8:39 PM, Steve Dougherty  wrote:
> Does December 12th - 13th work for people?
>
>
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[freenet-dev] Freenet Hackathon?

[Dan Roberts]

Hi Everybody,

Is anyone interested in a Freenet hackathon?

Context
===

For those who aren't familiar, a hackathon means roughly: a designated
time and meeting place (virtual or in-person) to do some hacking. They
are typically goal focused (eg.  Solve all UI bugs marked with major
severity, or, ensure all classes in freenet.node are documented fully
and accurately), and are often partially or wholly focused on attracting
new talent. Given the rather dire sounding "Project Status" thread, one
of the first threads I caught since I signed up for the ML, I think a
this might be useful to re-envigorate the project.

Proposal


I propose that the Freenet Project hold a 48-hour weekend hackathon
(00:00 Saturday to 23:59 Sunday) sometime this fall or winter, and
advertise it for a month or so prior.

To do this, the project needs a few things:

1. A straight forward goal or priority, and lots of low-hanging-fruit
   bugs contributing to that goal.
2. A guide to getting up and running quickly (perhaps gradle is useful
   here?). https://wiki.freenetproject.org/Building_from_source
   definitely needs a bit of help either way though (I can at least
   update the command-line section).
3. Support for green developers. There will be a lot of questions.
   (Although it may lead to a "blind-leading the blind" situation, I
   volunteer here.)

Possible issues
===

I imagine one possible objection to this initiative is that code
reviewer time is finite, perhaps the increased contribution volume would
actually be counterproductive? If this is the case, then a hackathon is
probably a non-starter, unless a large backlog of non-critical patches
is acceptable.

The other issue is that few if any of us are in the same time zones. I
believe this is pretty much a non-issue, it would be a 48-hour event,
and if all existing developers commit to participating for some portion
of the weekend, there will probably be significant overlap (which is
good).

Even if there is zero new-developer turnout, it would be useful to the
project to have a designated time when everyone is working together (and
in fact perhaps be more productive in that sense).

So is anyone interested in this, or does anyone have any outright
objections?

Thanks for reading,
Dan

P.S. Thanks Steve for review, formatting, and superior terminology.
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[freenet-dev] Brief Introduction

[Dan Roberts]

Hi Everyone,
I'm Dan. I thought I'd write a brief introduction, since I'd like to
start a discussion regarding coding sprints in another thread and wanted to
get this out of the way. I know I neglected to introduce myself in my only
other ML posting. I've been poking around Freenet for a few months now and
am interested in Freenet for its censorship resistance and anonymity
features, and also for the way data caching reduces the stress on
individual nodes. For the past few months I've been asking a lot of dumb
(and hopefully not-so-dumb) questions on IRC, but I only joined the mailing
list the other day. I'm still in the process of reviewing the source code
when I have time, but I feel like I have a grasp on a good portion of the
"essential" core freenet classes.

Personally, I'd like to see Fred exist one day as a *tiny*, verifiable
daemon, with process separation from all other components, even FProxy. But
for now I'm happy to be learning the fred code base, hacking on a Python
FMS client and a Fred plugin.

Thanks,
Dan
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Re: [freenet-dev] Project Status

[Dan Roberts]

Hi Everyone,
Regarding fundraising, perhaps it's time to reconsider Patreon,
Gratipay, and/or Bountysource? Personally, I think Patreon may be
promising. Afaict it has the largest volume of funding. Somehow the public
has found money to support lots of silly entertainment projects on a
recurring basis (not to denigrate those projects). With the right pitch, by
appealing to privacy concerns and freedom of expression, I think Freenet
has a chance of capturing funding through that platform. Funding software
seems to be a difficult proposition to users in general, but it can be done.

I doubt these would be sufficient to pay for development but they could
keep the lights on. Obviously these suggestions are just suggestions, but
from my quick perusal of the archives, it didn't look like Patreon or
Gratipay have received serious consideration, and bountysource appeared to
be more or less ruled out (but bountysource has changed enough to warrant
reconsideration too?).

If there's interest in any of these options, but lack of time, perhaps I
could contribute in that capacity by writing first passes of the requisite
campaigns, since I doubt I'll be up-to-speed on the code base any time soon.

Cheers,
Dan

On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 8:41 AM, Matthew Toseland  wrote:

> On 15/10/15 00:53, Hunter Poe wrote:
> > Hi, there
> >
> >
> >
> >  I have been a user of Freenet for several years now, and am at this
> point
> > still a pretty junior develop, but finally feel my capabilities have
> > advanced to the point where I would feel comfortable starting to do some
> > work with Freenet and contributing my, albeit limited, skills.
> >
> >  As consequence of this I have been following the mailing list a little
> > more closely the past week or two and it seems to me that one of the big
> > issues is as Ian pointed out Freenet is rather aged, and so are many of
> the
> > development methodologies, tools, and libraries, and it appears in
> > consequence of that, as well as several other hurdles, have made it
> > difficult for developers to join in the work.
> >
> >  This has resulted in a state where as Ian stated, we are basically
> running
> > in maintenance mode with a backlog of bugs, and trying to keep things
> > mostly working. Which at least in my limited experience is often one of
> the
> > less exciting tasks in a developers life. In addition because Freenet has
> > been able to stand so long on its own (15 years is quite the lifetime for
> > an application) but has resulted in numerous patches, and as Brookes
> points
> > out in the “Mythical Man Month” that when we fix a bug we end up just
> > introducing more bugs that are subtler.
> >
> >  It seems to me that the best way to revitalize Freenet would be to
> > re-architect and rebuild Freenet, starting with documenting how Freenet
> is
> > actually working according to the code. I have found in my rather limited
> > experience that often times when I am forced to verbalize or articulate
> > what my code is doing can sometimes bring epiphanies that help me make
> > major breakthroughs (source:
> > http://story.fund/post/114720918282/debugging-teddy-bea
> > r). The
> Freenet
> > 2.0 as it were could include a modernized build system, if we are
> concerned
> > about pulling down insecure dependencies we could look at creating our
> own
> > Freenet specific libraries that although this would cause us to reinvent
> > the wheel in some cases it could also help us reevaluate the need for the
> > specific component reducing software bloat, and give us the guarantee of
> > security. We could also move to a more compartmentalized and separated
> > model for Freenet, separating the deamon, and clients, changing the way
> we
> > handle plugins. As well as standardizing testing and development
> > procedures.
> >
> >  An expanded and more concise documentation and a modernization of build
> > tools could lower the bar for entry for new developers which would in
> turn
> > cascade into more devs contributing.
> >
> >  Ultimately we may need to make sacrifices in philosophical purity,  and
> > some compromises on how we want to handle certain aspects of our
> > development or methodology in order to ensure the continued survival of
> > Freenet, because regardless of how secure Freenet is, or how well the
> > source code has been vetted, or how much we trust the repositories we are
> > pulling from. If no one is running it because it has become to kludgy or
> > unwieldy to use or run, we are failing at our fundamental mission of
> > providing secure, anonymous, censorship resistant communication.
> >
> >
> >  Like I said I am still a fairly inexperienced and junior developer and
> > could be quite off base, but these are just my thoughts. I think the
> other
> > option we could do is just send the entire code base and administration
> and
> > everything else over to the NSA and the FBI and ask them to start
> > maintaining