Re: [digitalradio] PSK-ARQ versus ALE-400
As has been mentioned before, the best way to get the various flavours of ALE400 added to the various digital programs we use is to make source code available, failing that a good spec. Simon Brown, HB9DRV www.ham-radio-deluxe.com - Original Message - From: Andy obrien k3uka...@gmail.com I'll agree with John, while many here will find ALE400 easy to tackle, many average hams will be intimidated by an unfamiliar process. Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Pages at http://www.obriensweb.com/sked Recommended digital mode software: Winwarbler, FLDIGI, DM780, or Multipsk Logging Software: DXKeeper or Ham Radio Deluxe. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:digitalradio-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:digitalradio-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: digitalradio-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [digitalradio] Re: PSK-ARQ versus ALE-400
This is where a combination of Patrick's RSID idea (also in fldigi and DM780 5.0 and PocketDigi) and SDR will help. On July 1st I want to start writing my own Windows SDR console, initially for SoftRock and later other SDR radios. Instead of monitoring ~3kHz as at present we'll be able to monitor 40 - 100kHz (or more), so when a RSID transmission is detected (you calling CQ) anyone monitoring the same band will see the RSID and will know the frequency (+/- 6Hz) and mode you are using. Given the low cost of a 1 watt SoftRock it will be easy to get on the air using SDR and with any luck we'll get more MFSK / Olivia activity as SDR users will be able to watch the whole digital portion of the band. Consider this as a digital mode equivalent of the CW Skimmer program (which also could support decoding of simultaneous CW transmissions). I hope to be running with SoftRock and have DM780 integrated by the end of the year, probably not ready for 'prime time' but who knows? Simon Brown, HB9DRV www.ham-radio-deluxe.com - Original Message - From: John Bradley I live at a higher latitude than many folks in the US and find that PSK is susceptible to aurora flutter/multipath more often than most modes.
[digitalradio] How do I get started with digital radio?
I let my license expire twenty years or so ago but recently took the test for a new license and passed. I'll be getting it (an Extra) in a few weeks. I got rid of my equipment years ago so have no radio gear. I got interested in Ham radio again after joining the local Search and Rescue unit. Of course Ham radio holds an important part of its operation so I thought I help out with the Comms and get my license again. I'm retired and don't have a lot of money to spend on equipment. I know I want to use the 2 meter band for S and R and in the vehicle when traveling. Also, there are two repeaters in the area using that band. I know that I'd like to use the APRS which they started using in the SAR unit. Packet radio sounds really interesting. I spent thirty years working in Communications and spent several years programming computers used in Comms. However, I haven't thought about radios since I retired twelve years ago. I like the building/technical aspect of amateur radio and not BSing with strangers in foreign countries. I know how things work and like when I started canoeing, I started with one canoe and after a few years, I had three. But how to start? I have two different thoughts on equipment: 1.) get something like an IC-7000 which will allow me to use all the modes and bands to get me started. It's a pricey option but I think it would give me a good start and can use it in the field with SAR. 2.) Get something like an FT-8900R or just a two band VHF/UHF rig. I can get a HF rig later if I feel the need for one. It is a cheaper option. Since I'm not interested in DXing, I'm not sure if spending the extra money for the HF band is worth it when getting started? Do I need an all mode VHF/UHF rig to go digital How much is UHF used? Maybe I don't need that band yet? I'm thinking it might be useful when traveling to have two bands? Perhaps I could just get a 2 meter rig to get started. I could then afford also to get a hand held 2 meter rig to bring on searches.
Re: [digitalradio] How do I get started with digital radio?
A good HF radio +6m is the 100W Kenwood TS-480SAT - you can pick this up second-hand. It is a very good performer and an excellent HF radio for digital in general. Also the IC-703+ which is 10W and no mean machine. As for VHF / UHF I'll let others make suggestions. Simon Brown, HB9DRV www.ham-radio-deluxe.com - Original Message - From: evanp63 evan...@yahoo.com But how to start?
Re: [digitalradio] How do I get started with digital radio?
Hi there, I'm working at the moment but just thought I'd say that you can get on FM 2M Packet with just about the cheapest rig you can get and a sub standard PC or old laptop. I'm out of range of my packet node up here in the outer Hebrides. But at the previous QTH I used an old hand held with a tiny 2 TNC and a really really old 486 DX2 laptop running 4Mb ram and free Dos. Can't remember the software now. I still have it all and just need more space and a higher antenna. Also when I 1st started (before I bought the tiny 2 etc) I used an old Trio TH-205E Handi for everything, Local repeater and packet, including rx of ISS I made a really cruddy connection and ran it with winpac and my desk PC. The wee bugger got quite hot sometimes as it was on full power and a 13.8v power supply as the battery was duff, but it worked really quite well. I have only used uhf a few times with a couple of friends, but you guys in civilisation do have uhf repeaters. I also think there are a good few 2 / 70 radios with built in TNC's and the like. But you can get buy with just about anything. As for HF, well I love dx'ing but if it's not for you then maybe building a little 40m or 80m kit for local ragchews would be the thing. Or an old pre warc radio. Anyway I better do some more work now. Good luck and welcome back to ham radio Toby ---Original Message--- From: evanp63 Date: 28/05/2009 11:12:09 To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: [digitalradio] How do I get started with digital radio? I let my license expire twenty years or so ago but recently took the test for a new license and passed. I'll be getting it (an Extra) in a few weeks. I got rid of my equipment years ago so have no radio gear. I got interested in Ham radio again after joining the local Search and Rescue unit. Of course Ham radio holds an important part of its operation so I thought I help out with the Comms and get my license again. I'm retired and don't have a lot of money to spend on equipment. I know I want to use the 2 meter band for S and R and in the vehicle when traveling. Also, there are two repeaters in the area using that band. I know that I'd like to use the APRS which they started using in the SAR unit. Packet radio sounds really interesting. I spent thirty years working in Communications and spent several years programming computers used in Comms. However, I haven't thought about radios since I retired twelve years ago. I like the building/technical aspect of amateur radio and not BSing with strangers in foreign countries. I know how things work and like when I started canoeing, I started with one canoe and after a few years, I had three. But how to start? I have two different thoughts on equipment: 1.) get something like an IC-7000 which will allow me to use all the modes and bands to get me started. It's a pricey option but I think it would give me a good start and can use it in the field with SAR. 2.) Get something like an FT-8900R or just a two band VHF/UHF rig. I can get a HF rig later if I feel the need for one. It is a cheaper option. Since I'm not interested in DXing, I'm not sure if spending the extra money for the HF band is worth it when getting started? Do I need an all mode VHF/UHF rig to go digital How much is UHF used? Maybe I don't need that band yet? I'm thinking it might be useful when traveling to have two bands? Perhaps I could just get a 2 meter rig to get started. I could then afford also to get a hand held 2 meter rig to bring on searches.
Re: [digitalradio] How do I get started with digital radio?
For about $500 you can get a secondhand IC-706MKIIG and be able to work SSB, CW, FM, or digital modes from 160m through UHF. 73, Skip KH6TY
Re: [digitalradio] Re: PSK-ARQ versus ALE-400
Say, John, you also use Pactor 2 and 3 which are always 100 baud PSK modes. Do you find that these modes work through the ionospheric conditions when sound card modes, even those with similar modes do not? I find PSK to be rather poor at times here at 44 degrees N latitude, unless you are close to the MUF with a stable ionosphere. I have never seen any published information or other comparisons of P2 and P3 in terms of how much multipath or Doppler can be tolerated, but I suspect that it is not all that much, and there are going to be times that some sound card modes work (albeit slowly) and P2 and P3 simply will not. 73, Rick, KV9U John Bradley wrote: I live at a higher latitude than many folks in the US and find that PSK is susceptible to aurora flutter/multipath more often than most modes. There are time up here that nothing will decode PSK despite the fact the band is open and active. I’m not technically competent enough to say why, but the fact of the matter is PSK at times will not work, when MFSK and ALE400 will. Go figure. BTW I’m at almost 51N latitude John VE5MU ** Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Pages at http://www.obriensweb.com/sked Recommended digital mode software: Winwarbler, FLDIGI, DM780, or Multipsk Logging Software: DXKeeper or Ham Radio Deluxe. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:digitalradio-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:digitalradio-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: digitalradio-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [digitalradio] How do I get started with digital radio?
AVOID FT-100 or 100D --- On Thu, 5/28/09, kh6ty kh...@comcast.net wrote: From: kh6ty kh...@comcast.net Subject: Re: [digitalradio] How do I get started with digital radio? To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, May 28, 2009, 7:36 AM For about $500 you can get a secondhand IC-706MKIIG and be able to work SSB, CW, FM, or digital modes from 160m through UHF. 73, Skip KH6TY
Re: [digitalradio] How do I get started with digital radio?
Avoid the Icom IC-718 if you want to do push to talk by CAT command. Icom chose not to put PTT by CAT in the command word set. There are other methods of doin PTT but CAT is by far the most elegant. Rick - KH2DF Sent from my iPhone On May 28, 2009, at 9:06 AM, bruce mallon wa4...@yahoo.com wrote: AVOID FT-100 or 100D --- On Thu, 5/28/09, kh6ty kh...@comcast.net wrote: From: kh6ty kh...@comcast.net Subject: Re: [digitalradio] How do I get started with digital radio? To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, May 28, 2009, 7:36 AM For about $500 you can get a secondhand IC-706MKIIG and be able to work SSB, CW, FM, or digital modes from 160m through UHF. 73, Skip KH6TY
Re: [digitalradio] Re: PSK-ARQ versus ALE-400
Rick W escribió: Say, John, you also use Pactor 2 and 3 which are always 100 baud PSK modes. Pactor and Pactor 2 can work at 200 baud. Buit it requires little multipath and good SNR. Do you find that these modes work through the ionospheric conditions when sound card modes, even those with similar modes do not? ARQ is a great adventage. If not acknowledged, repeat it. That is what helps to hold the link under marginal conditions. I find PSK to be rather poor at times here at 44 degrees N latitude, unless you are close to the MUF with a stable ionosphere. I have never seen any published information or other comparisons of P2 and P3 in terms of how much multipath or Doppler can be tolerated, but I suspect that it is not all that much, and there are going to be times that some sound card modes work (albeit slowly) and P2 and P3 simply will not. I have never compared them, but again, ARQ is a great adventage. If some mode could compete, is at least Olivia 16/500. I had a scheduled QSO on 40 with HB9, and even when the waterfall was very faint, print was perfect. Lenghthening the symbols (lowering the speed) helps with multipath. With Doppler, I believe that differential PSK is what makes it tick on HF, otherwise, Doppler.can be very destructive on the link integrity. 73, Jose, CO2JA VI Conferencia Internacional de Energía Renovable, Ahorro de Energía y Educación Energética 9 - 12 de Junio 2009, Palacio de las Convenciones ...Por una cultura energética sustentable www.ciercuba.com Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Pages at http://www.obriensweb.com/sked Recommended digital mode software: Winwarbler, FLDIGI, DM780, or Multipsk Logging Software: DXKeeper or Ham Radio Deluxe. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:digitalradio-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:digitalradio-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: digitalradio-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [digitalradio] PSK-ARQ versus ALE-400
Simon; That said, what would it take to convince you and Patrick to work on a project,(besides time), hm? John VE5MU As has been mentioned before, the best way to get the various flavours of ALE400 added to the various digital programs we use is to make source code available, failing that a good spec. Simon Brown, HB9DRV www.ham-radio-deluxe.com
Re: [digitalradio] PSK-ARQ versus ALE-400
Hi, I'm working on at least a million lines of code in various Ham projects - the easiest way for me to add a new mode is if I have the source. Patrick writes in Pascal, myself in C++. To be honest I see Olivia and MT63 as the most reliable modes out there. Simon Brown, HB9DRV www.ham-radio-deluxe.com - Original Message - From: John Bradley jbrad...@sasktel.net That said, what would it take to convince you and Patrick to work on a project,(besides time), hm?
Re: [digitalradio] PSK-ARQ versus ALE-400
Hello John and all, I have suggested to Patrick in the past that he does an emcomm version of multipsk.. PSK,MFSK, ALE 400 and 141, and maybe Olivia. Not to remove these from the software but just take all the other options off the user interface.. hide the buttons of you wish. At the time, he was not interested. That said, what would it take to convince you and Patrick to work on a project,(besides time), hm? There is a lot of interesting projects but time is a rare ressource, that's the problem. About ALE400 source code: ALE400 is the same code as ALE with different parameters and a different way to estimate the BER. It seems that it exits some parts of ALE source available and, at least, someone (a French guy, sorry I forgot his call sign) is developping a C++ code for ALE, which will be available in the future. I don't want to issue my own ALE code (moreover, it would be difficult to extract as it is mixed with the rest). anyone monitoring the same band will see the RSID and will know the frequency (+/- 6Hz) and mode Note: the precision in frequency is +/-2.7 Hz. About the interface: I do it the way that corresponds to my needs (and I hope it corresponds to some other needs): * quick access to modes and options without going to menus, * except for some complex modes as Packet or ALE, all the options concerning a mode are directly available using buttons, * as I have no much memory (in my mind not in the PC), many buttons have a hint (i.e. after 1/2 s, mouse cursor over the button) which is, in fact, a sort of micro contextual help, * many buttons give access to a context sensitive help (i.e. mouse cursor over the button, clicking on the right button of the mouse calls the concerned help), Note: I do this way because, I noted that it is really complex to have a pertinent information, through the help, with professional softs as WORD. * clicking a mode button as ALE400 for example gives access to a default configuration, which must be sufficient for a first start, so, in fact, there is nothing to configure at the first step. There is just to choose the mode to work. Now each one must choose according to his/her needs. 73 Patrick - Original Message - From: John Bradley To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 4:40 AM Subject: RE: [digitalradio] PSK-ARQ versus ALE-400 you are right I do like multipsk and particularly ALE400. Works well in to the noise . I don't find it hard to use, but I have spent some time using the software and am not intimidated by the user interface. When I try to encourage others to try it out , their first reaction is that the software is too complex.. and they are thrown off by the interface. I would be reluctant to suggest this mode for emcomm use since the same operators would also be overcome by the interface, with the added stressors of whatever the incident is. Probably be OK for the first couple of operating periods but beyond that less experienced operators would be thrown into the mix. I have suggested to Patrick in the past that he does an emcomm version of multipsk.. PSK,MFSK, ALE 400 and 141, and maybe Olivia. Not to remove these from the software but just take all the other options off the user interface.. hide the buttons of you wish. At the time, he was not interested. John VE5MU
Re: [digitalradio] PSK-ARQ versus ALE-400
When the C++ code is available I'll take a look for sure :) I understand not shipping your code if it's mixed up elsewhere. Simon Brown, HB9DRV www.ham-radio-deluxe.com - Original Message - From: Patrick Lindecker ... is developping a C++ code for ALE, which will be available in the future.
[digitalradio] Re: VE5MU High Latitude ionosphere and digital modes
John VE5MU wrote: I live at a higher latitude than many folks There are times up here that nothing will decode PSK despite the fact the band is open and active. I'm very glad you brought this up to the group John. High latitude path distortion is one of the best examples of why we should use and appreciate the more robust modes more often; especially Olivia and it's derivatives. We all see the same instability on the majority of signals coming over the pole regardless of ones location (obviously more common in your case) and it's also quite common on low-latitude (spread-F) paths. Even a small amount of ionospheric agitation can cause throughput problems. Spread-F, multipath and other types of ionospheric instability can happen anywhere, anytime. This seems to confuse some PSK operators in that they can't understand why the print is so bad when signals are so strong. The phase meter is a good indicator of instability; the spokes in the meter tend to deviate wildly instead of staying straight and vertical. I recently had a QSO with JA1RZD on MFSK16 and I captured his QSO with another station just a few minutes later on PSK31. I think the text below speaks for itself. Path distortion was moderate, but was enough to cause problems with the narrow mode. I think PSK31 is a superb spectrum friendly, weak signal mode. But like other narrow modes it cannot overcome certain types of path instability as well as others. Thanks for mentioning this John. I hope others take the time to switch modes now and then to overcome some of the path issues we run into. Good reason to experiment and become familiar with other modes. Tony -K2MO (JA1RZD on MFSK16) K2MO K2MO de JA1RZD JA1RZD Roger Tony. Tnx for the report. The WX here is fine and temp is 7 C. Here is my setup: Transceiver : IC-746 with IC-PW1 amp at 250 watts on PSK31 350 watts on MFSK 700 watts on RTTY Antenna: Five element tribander for 20, 15, 10 meter bands and add on rotary dipole for 40 m. Four element dual bander for 17 and 12 meter bands Software : MMVARI by JE3HHT Interface : Home brew PC : Celeron CPU 2GHz, RAM 1GB I would like to exchange QSL cards via the bureau. If you cannot use the bureau, send me your card durectly. I am OK on QRZ.com. BTU K2MO Tony de JA1RZD KN K2MO K2MO de JA1RZD JA1RZD Tnx for the Contact, Tony. I hope to see you soon on the air. Thank you very much for the QSO. Best 73 and Sayonara from Tokyo Japan. K2MO Tony de JA1RZD sk CQ CQ CQ CQ DX DE JA1RZD JA1RZD JA1RZD Q CQ CQ CQ DX DE JA1RZD JA1RZD JA1RZD CQ CQ CQ CQ DX DE JA1RZD JA1RZD JA1RZD Pse kkk (JA1RZD on PSK31) DX DE JA1RZD JyyRZD JA1RrtD CQ rCQ CQ a a D. JA1RZD fn yRZD JAs RZD CQ Ct CQ Cm 1X DE JA1CD JA1R= - JA1kZD Pseepkk anr n e kRe ea ti e -Vet: pis o o e = v,gnoto mi_ e.ee)nee.ht QR} zRZ QRZ7e J ?RZa 1Rtel JeÉRZk k N W9NCQ de JA1RZD JA1R dD? Good a ternoon 'a. lhank yqu ve msch fo your seply. Yout sigdl R-Q ns E49 u4949. Mame is ben Ken KeeKen. My QTH is Nisö Tok o City, Nisé Toky ity, Nishi ToFyo City, ×t 2) km west of central Tokyo. G etd Lonator is PM95sr wae9tesr BTU WVNCW de JA1ROV KNÄti eÏZhe e on n Ae
[digitalradio] Re: VE5MU High Latitude ionosphere and digital modes
John VE5MU wrote: I live at a higher latitude than many folks There are times up here that nothing will decode PSK despite the fact the band is open and active. I'm very glad you brought this up to the group John. High latitude path distortion is one of the best examples of why we should use and appreciate the more robust modes more often; especially Olivia and it's derivatives. We all see the same instability on the majority of signals coming over the pole regardless of ones location (obviously more common in your case) and it's also quite common on low-latitude (spread-F) paths. Even a small amount of ionospheric agitation can cause throughput problems. Spread-F, multipath and other types of ionospheric instability can happen anywhere, anytime. This seems to confuse some PSK operators in that they can't understand why the print is so bad when signals are so strong. The phase meter is a good indicator of instability; the spokes in the meter tend to deviate wildly instead of staying straight and vertical. I recently had a QSO with JA1RZD on MFSK16 and I captured his QSO with another station just a few minutes later on PSK31. I think the text below speaks for itself. Path distortion was moderate, but was enough to cause problems with the narrow mode. I think PSK31 is a superb spectrum friendly, weak signal mode. But like other narrow modes it cannot overcome certain types of path instability as well as others. Thanks for mentioning this John. I hope others take the time to switch modes now and then to overcome some of the path issues we run into. Good reason to experiment and become familiar with other modes. Tony -K2MO (JA1RZD on MFSK16) K2MO K2MO de JA1RZD JA1RZD Roger Tony. Tnx for the report. The WX here is fine and temp is 7 C. Here is my setup: Transceiver : IC-746 with IC-PW1 amp at 250 watts on PSK31 350 watts on MFSK 700 watts on RTTY Antenna: Five element tribander for 20, 15, 10 meter bands and add on rotary dipole for 40 m. Four element dual bander for 17 and 12 meter bands Software : MMVARI by JE3HHT Interface : Home brew PC : Celeron CPU 2GHz, RAM 1GB I would like to exchange QSL cards via the bureau. If you cannot use the bureau, send me your card durectly. I am OK on QRZ.com. BTU K2MO Tony de JA1RZD KN K2MO K2MO de JA1RZD JA1RZD Tnx for the Contact, Tony. I hope to see you soon on the air. Thank you very much for the QSO. Best 73 and Sayonara from Tokyo Japan. K2MO Tony de JA1RZD sk CQ CQ CQ CQ DX DE JA1RZD JA1RZD JA1RZD Q CQ CQ CQ DX DE JA1RZD JA1RZD JA1RZD CQ CQ CQ CQ DX DE JA1RZD JA1RZD JA1RZD Pse kkk (JA1RZD on PSK31) DX DE JA1RZD JyyRZD JA1RrtD CQ rCQ CQ a a D. JA1RZD fn yRZD JAs RZD CQ Ct CQ Cm 1X DE JA1CD JA1R= - JA1kZD Pseepkk anr n e kRe ea ti e -Vet: pis o o e = v,gnoto mi_ e.ee)nee.ht QR} zRZ QRZ7e J ?RZa 1Rtel JeÉRZk k N W9NCQ de JA1RZD JA1R dD? Good a ternoon 'a. lhank yqu ve msch fo your seply. Yout sigdl R-Q ns E49 u4949. Mame is ben Ken KeeKen. My QTH is Nisö Tok o City, Nisé Toky ity, Nishi ToFyo City, ×t 2) km west of central Tokyo. G etd Lonator is PM95sr wae9tesr BTU WVNCW de JA1ROV KNÄti eÏZhe e on n Ae
[digitalradio] What PSKmail Server is online.
If you want to know what PSKmail server and where it is and the times. You can go out to (http://pskmail.wikispaces.com/) down the left side of the page find Pskmail server, network and On Air, and take a look. Russell NC5O Yesterday is HISTORY. Tomorrow is a MYSTERY. Today is a GIFT! Thats why its called the PRESENT! IN GOD WE TRUST Russell Blair (NC5O) Skype-Russell.Blair Hell Field #300 DRCC #55 30m Dig-group #693
[digitalradio] Re: What mode is on 3.5820?
Any follow up on this Dave? f
[digitalradio] More on ALE 400 FAE
First, is it really ALE as used currently? I am not sure that the recent tests of this mode have actually used it in the form of establishing an automatic link. I know it can be used this way , but do not see this. If it is not really ALE, what should it be called ? Second, the performance of ALE 400 FAE file transfers between Sholto and myself last night was simply astonishing . Late at night (0400 UTC) we passed a files east coast to west coast USA with audible signal levels around S1 or less. 20 meters , I was on a vertical running 90 watts. 100% copy (it is ARQ) in a fairly reasonable amount of time with expected amounts of re-tries. So, regardless of whether this mode is used in automatic link establishment , it really has to be considered as a very reliable method of transferring short files under very poor conditions and much longer files in good conditions. Well done Patrick! So, in addition to NBEBS ARQ MFSK16 and ARQ PSK, we now have and even more robust mode that beats its way through the QRN and low sun spot conditions. Andy K3UK
[digitalradio] Really beating the AGC issue with PSK ?
From time to time we have had discussions here about the problem with PSK (and other modes) when a strong stations appears to grab the waterfall and wipe out all the other stations within a 2-3 Khz range. Because of this phenomenon, when I purchased a new rig, I looked for one that could have AGC totally off (when needed) and one that can employ narrow DSP filtering. I must say that I have not really solved this issue . I can see a marginal difference with AGC turned off but strong signals still essentially desensitize other stations in the waterfall. The DSP features do better and I can get rid of the phenomena by turning to a narrow filter. However this does not help if the offending station is with 300 - 500 Hz ( a lot when dealing with narrow digital modes). Does anyone have any advice on how to once and for all solve this issue? My rig is a TS2000 Andy K3UK
Re: [digitalradio] Really beating the AGC issue with PSK ?
When I use MultiPSK, I make sure the mic input is high (say 30% - 50%) then use MultiPSK's waterfall AGC which often shows the weaker signals as well as the loud one. I also use the manual notch on the rig to help out. 73 Sholto Andy obrien wrote: From time to time we have had discussions here about the problem with PSK (and other modes) when a strong stations appears to grab the waterfall and wipe out all the other stations within a 2-3 Khz range. Because of this phenomenon, when I purchased a new rig, I looked for one that could have AGC totally off (when needed) and one that can employ narrow DSP filtering. I must say that I have not really solved this issue . I can see a marginal difference with AGC turned off but strong signals still essentially desensitize other stations in the waterfall. The DSP features do better and I can get rid of the phenomena by turning to a narrow filter. However this does not help if the offending station is with 300 - 500 Hz ( a lot when dealing with narrow digital modes). Does anyone have any advice on how to once and for all solve this issue? My rig is a TS2000 Andy K3UK
Re: [digitalradio] More on ALE 400 FAE
Andy, First, is it really ALE as used currently? I am not sure that the recent tests of this mode have actually used it in the form of establishing an automatic link. I haven't Andy. I think it would be put to better use as an ARQ chat mode. Tony -K2MO
Re: [digitalradio] Really beating the AGC issue with PSK ?
Andy obrien wrote: From time to time we have had discussions here about the problem with PSK (and other modes) when a strong stations appears to grab the waterfall and wipe out all the other stations within a 2-3 Khz range. Because of this phenomenon, when I purchased a new rig, I looked for one that could have AGC totally off (when needed) and one that can employ narrow DSP filtering. I must say that I have not really solved this issue . I can see a marginal difference with AGC turned off but strong signals still essentially desensitize other stations in the waterfall. The DSP features do better and I can get rid of the phenomena by turning to a narrow filter. However this does not help if the offending station is with 300 - 500 Hz ( a lot when dealing with narrow digital modes). Does anyone have any advice on how to once and for all solve this issue? My rig is a TS2000 IF DSP is much better at handling this than AF DSP. On my IC-746Pro, the AGC sees only signals that make it through the filter, which can be narrowed to 50hz. Allowing for the sharp slope setting, this is pretty effective at limiting to about 100hz down to about 25db down from the peak. Of course, you can't fix a splattered signal that is actually interfering on the frequency where your weaker target it. Nothing can fix that except to clean up the transmitter that is battering the spectrum.
[digitalradio] Re: Really beating the AGC issue with PSK ?
Buy an IC7000 ;-) I run my 7000 with 150Hz filter width for PSK31 and if that's not small enough I'll put one or both manual notches into play to narrow things further. I can only define three filters and I have to do that at the rig, there is no provision to do it via CAT. But I can choose via CAT. They are forced to be centered at 1500Hz. I have setup 150Hz (for PSK31 and 63), 600Hz (for MFSK and Olivia) and 3KHz (for search/acquisition and MT63-1K) Right now I'm using fldigi because I need calibration capability but when the new HRD/DM780 comes out with calibration I'm looking forward to switching back so I can hopefully program some macros in DM780 to QSY to 1500Hz waterfall and dump the filter from 3KHz to 150Hz with a single button press. That way I can have a search mode and a QSO mode. Scott k*b*l*0*0*q --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Andy obrien k3uka...@... wrote: From time to time we have had discussions here about the problem with PSK (and other modes) when a strong stations appears to grab the waterfall and wipe out all the other stations within a 2-3 Khz range. Because of this phenomenon, when I purchased a new rig, I looked for one that could have AGC totally off (when needed) and one that can employ narrow DSP filtering. I must say that I have not really solved this issue . I can see a marginal difference with AGC turned off but strong signals still essentially desensitize other stations in the waterfall. The DSP features do better and I can get rid of the phenomena by turning to a narrow filter. However this does not help if the offending station is with 300 - 500 Hz ( a lot when dealing with narrow digital modes). Does anyone have any advice on how to once and for all solve this issue? My rig is a TS2000 Andy K3UK
[digitalradio] QRV 14074.0 ALE-400 FAE
All, Anyone care for an ARQ chat? I'm QRV ALE-400 FAE... 14074.0 USB + 1600Hz -- beaming west. Time is 00:45z... Tony -K2MO
RE: [digitalradio] Really beating the AGC issue with PSK ?
My Icom 746 suffers the same problem. I had hoped that the Elecraft K3 that I had in mind would solve this issue for me as well but maybe not. The review in QST was the best they ever gave but maybe I hope for too much. Rick - KH2DF _ From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Andy obrien Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 7:08 PM To: digitalradio Subject: [digitalradio] Really beating the AGC issue with PSK ? From time to time we have had discussions here about the problem with PSK (and other modes) when a strong stations appears to grab the waterfall and wipe out all the other stations within a 2-3 Khz range. Because of this phenomenon, when I purchased a new rig, I looked for one that could have AGC totally off (when needed) and one that can employ narrow DSP filtering. I must say that I have not really solved this issue . I can see a marginal difference with AGC turned off but strong signals still essentially desensitize other stations in the waterfall. The DSP features do better and I can get rid of the phenomena by turning to a narrow filter. However this does not help if the offending station is with 300 - 500 Hz ( a lot when dealing with narrow digital modes). Does anyone have any advice on how to once and for all solve this issue? My rig is a TS2000 Andy K3UK
Re: [digitalradio] QRV 14074.0 ALE-400 FAE
I'm there too K3UK On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 8:41 PM, Tony d...@optonline.net wrote: All, Anyone care for an ARQ chat? I'm QRV ALE-400 FAE... 14074.0 USB + 1600Hz -- beaming west. Time is 00:45z... Tony -K2MO
[digitalradio] 14074. MHZ - What Is That?
Anybody know what that is on 14.074? Rick - KH2DF/W5
RE: [digitalradio] 14074. MHZ - What Is That?
Ahh . . . thanks Andy. ALE 400. It has been a while since I heard it. Rick - KH2DF/W5 _ From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of r_lwesterfi...@bellsouth.net Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 8:33 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: [digitalradio] 14074. MHZ - What Is That? Anybody know what that is on 14.074? Rick - KH2DF/W5
Re: [digitalradio] More on ALE 400 FAE
Andy, The FAE modes are not really all that new. I had promoted it back in July 2007 on one of the eham forums when I asked if other public service operators planned to use this protocol. There have been very few hams interested in such a mode. My personal preference is to refer to it as FAE, unless it is actually used for Automatic Link Establishment. This is partially to avoid the confusion with ALE operation, and to defuse the hostility that most hams have toward ALE operation. Of course, it theoretically could be used in an ALE system, but I don't see this happening all that much for most ham purposes since what we mostly do is the opposite of ALE. As we gain experience, we know which bands are open (or can quickly check) and then cast out our RF or answer some other stations RF on shared frequencies with varying bandwidths. For public service use we are likely to set up a specific frequency of operation, but having several frequencies on different bands is always possible. I heard Tony, K2MO on this evening working a station near 14.074 using Olivia, but then he switched to FAE40 and called CQ. We were not able to link as the band appeared to be dropping out by then. I called him back and also called CQ to no avail. One other important, and convenient thing about these modes is that the convention was retained to always center on 1625 Hz audio frequency, so your dial frequency is the frequency of operation. 73, Rick, KV9U Andy obrien wrote: First, is it really ALE as used currently? I am not sure that the recent tests of this mode have actually used it in the form of establishing an automatic link. I know it can be used this way , but do not see this. If it is not really ALE, what should it be called ? Second, the performance of ALE 400 FAE file transfers between Sholto and myself last night was simply astonishing . Late at night (0400 UTC) we passed a files east coast to west coast USA with audible signal levels around S1 or less. 20 meters , I was on a vertical running 90 watts. 100% copy (it is ARQ) in a fairly reasonable amount of time with expected amounts of re-tries. So, regardless of whether this mode is used in automatic link establishment , it really has to be considered as a very reliable method of transferring short files under very poor conditions and much longer files in good conditions. Well done Patrick! So, in addition to NBEBS ARQ MFSK16 and ARQ PSK, we now have and even more robust mode that beats its way through the QRN and low sun spot conditions. Andy K3UK Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Pages at http://www.obriensweb.com/sked Recommended digital mode software: Winwarbler, FLDIGI, DM780, or Multipsk Logging Software: DXKeeper or Ham Radio Deluxe. Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.43/2139 - Release Date: 05/28/09 08:10:00
RE: [digitalradio] 14074. MHZ - What Is That?
ALE 400 ARQ I believe David KD4NUE CQ K7TMGK2MO K7TMG DE K2MO ok tony back ag ain in FAE. The other ARQ is nowhere near as f -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of r_lwesterfi...@bellsouth.net Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 9:33 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: [digitalradio] 14074. MHZ - What Is That? Anybody know what that is on 14.074? Rick - KH2DF/W5
RE: [digitalradio] More on ALE 400 FAE and a proposed test
I have used ALE400 as ALE , in fact setting up the menu so that a station will respond to a net call such as ARES. With tests it is an easy way to see who is on freq as each station programmed to respond will do so ... timing can be set as well. For test purposes we could all program a net call and monitor a particular frequency or frequencies. In FAE ARQ mode you could connect, pass traffic, and disconnect without anyone being at the remote station. In ARQ mode, ALE400 will pass a 1K message in about 3 minutes. This message will show up in the mailbox. Want to demo all this? Pick a 20M freq.. am on 14072.5 dial right now, (plus default of 1625hz) and will answer to an ARES group call (set up under options). try a connect to VE5MU sending a SMALL (under 2K) text file. Will be here for the next 24 hours . John VE5MU From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 6:30 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [digitalradio] More on ALE 400 FAE Andy, First, is it really ALE as used currently? I am not sure that the recent tests of this mode have actually used it in the form of establishing an automatic link. I haven't Andy. I think it would be put to better use as an ARQ chat mode. Tony -K2MO
Re: [digitalradio] QRV 14074.0 ALE-400 FAE
Still QRV... 14074.0 USB - ALE-400 FAE -- ARQ CHAT MODE... Time is 0245z... Tony -K2MO All, Anyone care for an ARQ chat? I'm QRV ALE-400 FAE... 14074.0 USB + 1600Hz -- beaming west. Tony -K2MO
[digitalradio] ALE400
This mode used as ALE is much superior to PC-ALE since you can determine if the path is there by sounding, and then do a connect to pass traffic using the same software. The other station can be unattended in this process. ALE141 also works well in exactly the same manner, no difference in operation, just a little faster throughput, and a little less sensitivity than ALE400 John VE5MU
[digitalradio] ALE-400 FAE -- ARQ Collisions
All, It's important to make sure your rigs vox delay is off when working ALE-400-ARQ. We've managed to cause a few tx/rx change-over collisions while in QSO by forgetting to turn it off. Tony -K2MO
[digitalradio] Re: QRV 14074.0 ALE-400 FAE
Tony, Sorry I didn't have time to stop and chat. I copied your QSO with John, VE5MU, from beginning to end while I was eating dinner and reading the mail. You were strong at the beginning but John was stronger at the end. The repeat rate was around 2:1 at the beginning and increased towards the end until the connection was lost. Sholto and I worked each other some time ago with this mode. It works quite well for a chat like that. Patrick, F6CTE, Thank you for your very generous contribution to the community. MultiPSK is ideal for those of us who like to experiment with various modes. MultiPSK is running 24/7 here capturing call signs on 30 meters PSK. I had been looking for a program that could capture call signs when the 30mdg group asked me to spot for them last year and pointed me to MultiPSK. One feature request: Would it be feasible to make the panoramic display active while using the RX/TX window for a QSO - possibly in another mode? Ed WB6YTE --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Tony d...@... wrote: Still QRV... 14074.0 USB - ALE-400 FAE -- ARQ CHAT MODE... Time is 0245z... Tony -K2MO All, Anyone care for an ARQ chat? I'm QRV ALE-400 FAE... 14074.0 USB + 1600Hz -- beaming west. Tony -K2MO
