Re: [digitalradio] Individual software programs for various digital modes????
Johnne Lee, 2 that come to mind are Ham Radio Deluxe/DM780 and fldigi. Google/Bing them and you won't be dissapointed. Both are outstanding and contain a plethora of modes. 73... Jon W1MNK On 6/15/2010 4:40 PM, JLA wrote: Hi All, I've been lurking a while and I've not found a clear (to me anyway) discussion of small, individual digital mode software programs, e.g., one program for RTTY; one program for Olivia, etc, etc... I have a 7200 and I am not at all interested in computer control of my rig. Neither am I interested in a software suite with a zillion bells and whistles that I will never, ever use. I am neither a contester nor DX-er. I doubt very, very seriously if I will ever work any digital modes other than Olivia and RTTY. My only current digital software program is MRP40 which is FB for QRQ CW especially in bad/weak signal conditions. It is worth every penny to me as I can not copy CW at the faster rates (25+ wpm.) Any guidance/advice anyone has will be greatly appreciated. 73 de W1YB Johnne Lee
Re: [digitalradio] Individual software programs for various digital modes????
Ed, My BAD :-) I glossed over ...small, individual I just think those two suites are the best around and are worth a view. 73... Jon W1MNK On 6/15/2010 5:42 PM, Ed G wrote: Jon, Do you REALLY consider Ham Radio Deluxe/DM780 to be small, individual digital mode software programs ??? Because that is what Johnne is looking for. I consider HRD/DM780 to be software suites with a zillion bells and whistles, which is exactly what Johnne is NOT looking for. Ed K7AAT *From:* digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Jon Maguire *Sent:* Tuesday, June 15, 2010 2:29 PM *To:* digitalradio@yahoogroups.com *Subject:* Re: [digitalradio] Individual software programs for various digital modes Johnne Lee, 2 that come to mind are Ham Radio Deluxe/DM780 and fldigi. Google/Bing them and you won't be dissapointed. Both are outstanding and contain a plethora of modes. 73... Jon W1MNK On 6/15/2010 4:40 PM, JLA wrote: Hi All, I've been lurking a while and I've not found a clear (to me anyway) discussion of small, individual digital mode software programs, e.g., one program for RTTY; one program for Olivia, etc, etc... I have a 7200 and I am not at all interested in computer control of my rig. Neither am I interested in a software suite with a zillion bells and whistles that I will never, ever use. I am neither a contester nor DX-er. I doubt very, very seriously if I will ever work any digital modes other than Olivia and RTTY. My only current digital software program is MRP40 which is FB for QRQ CW especially in bad/weak signal conditions. It is worth every penny to me as I can not copy CW at the faster rates (25+ wpm.) Any guidance/advice anyone has will be greatly appreciated. 73 de W1YB Johnne Lee
[digitalradio] fldigi/flrig Waterfall Problem
I'm running a USInterface Navigator driving an ICOM Pro3. OS is WinXP Media center. fldigi 3.20.16 and flrig 1.0.0bD. flrig controls the rig just fine, and fldigi shows the rig is connected once flrig is finished initializing. However, during the init process, the waterfall stops. fldigi works fine as long as flrig isn't running. I'm sure I missed something, a setting etc. but I haven't been able to find it. Any help is greatly appreciated. 73... Jon W1MNK ps I posted this on the win-fldigi list, no response
Re: [digitalradio] ALE 400: Ready for next stage ?
Andy, We can do all this in Multipsk, right? No need for PCALE etal? 73... Jon W1MNK On 5/22/2010 8:34 AM, Andy obrien wrote: With dozens of NEW ALE 400 operators in the past week since K2MO's QST article, I wonder if the new ALE 400 enthusiasGs are now ready for the next logical stage in ALE 400 sue... SCANNING and LINKING. Using ALE as it was intended , over multiple channels . I've been down this road before and had perhaps just 2-3 hams try to find me while I was scanning. Any ideas for building on Tony's article and developing an ALE 400 Network similar to standard ALE networks but without 2.7 Khz wide signals and unattended soundings ? How about a 3-band network to start 80,30, 20 ? Andy K3GK
Re: [digitalradio] Youtube Video of JT65-HF
Hi Frank, It's supposed to be at http://w6cqz-hf-wsjt.googlecode.com/files//setupJT65/-/HF1051/./zip but isn't found. 73... Jon W1MNK / On 4/15/2010 8:16 PM, Frank MacDonell wrote: Andy - What is the website to download JT65-HF? Tnx. Frank MacDonell KD8FIP On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 7:46 PM, obrienaj k3uka...@gmail.com mailto:k3uka...@gmail.com wrote: While I am still a fan of JT65A as part of the WSJT program, I also use JT65A in Multipsk and also in JT65-HF by W4CQZ. JT65-HF is my favourite, works very well and is VERY easy to figure out. I just put a quick video of it up on Youtube at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM9Ai_bHr0o http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM9Ai_bHr0o This is without sound because I am testing camstudio software thanks to a tip from K2MO, still have not sussed the audio settings. Andy K3UK -- Frank KD8FIP
Re: [digitalradio] Youtube Video of JT65-HF
Andy, That's fine. I'll keep checking for it. CU on FB 73... Jon W1MNK On 4/17/2010 4:37 PM, Andy obrien wrote: The software is still in beta testing and usually available via that link but has been taken down for a little while , the author is trying to sort out some international export regulations. Andy On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 3:55 PM, Jon Maguire w1...@tampabay.rr.com mailto:w1...@tampabay.rr.com wrote: Hi Frank, It's supposed to be at http://w6cqz-hf-wsjt.googlecode.com/files/ http://w6cqz-hf-wsjt.googlecode.com/files//setupJT65/-/HF1051/./zip but isn't found. 73... Jon W1MNK / On 4/15/2010 8:16 PM, Frank MacDonell wrote: Andy - What is the website to download JT65-HF? Tnx. Frank MacDonell KD8FIP On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 7:46 PM, obrienaj k3uka...@gmail.com mailto:k3uka...@gmail.com wrote: While I am still a fan of JT65A as part of the WSJT program, I also use JT65A in Multipsk and also in JT65-HF by W4CQZ. JT65-HF is my favourite, works very well and is VERY easy to figure out. I just put a quick video of it up on Youtube at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM9Ai_bHr0o http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM9Ai_bHr0o This is without sound because I am testing camstudio software thanks to a tip from K2MO, still have not sussed the audio settings. Andy K3UK -- Frank KD8FIP
Re: [digitalradio] Re: Using JT65A and W4CQZ RB for radiation pattern studies.
Hi Julian, What are you using to analyze the WSPR data after downloading? Thank you. 73... Jon W1MNK g4ilo wrote: I don't think you can impute anything meaningful from one set of reports. Normal QSB will make a difference of from several to many dB which can only be averaged out over a period of time. WSPR is much better IMO for this sort of thing. You can leave it running, go and do something interesting, then come back later and download all the spots and take an average. You can also transmit simultaneously on two different frequencies using the test antenna and a reference one and compare the reports each one gets. (You have to start the transmit cycles manually in that case, there is no facility in the software for two copies of the program to use the same pattern of transmissions.) Julian, G4ILO --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com mailto:digitalradio%40yahoogroups.com, Andy obrien k3uka...@... wrote: While transmitting on 20M today , using JT65HF software and monitoring the W4CQZ Reverse Beacons for JT65A,, I was lucky enough to get 9 stations report my signal strength from one 45 second transmission. Take a look at the report each station noted at 2136 Europe. I was using my home made ground plane vertical mounted at 17ft (1/4 wave). Southern US stations (mostly SW of me) averaged several dB better signals from me than the Europeans. So can I assume anything meaningful aabout the radiation pattern from this antenna or is the key factor to examine the distance ? The Europeans were twice as far away from my QTH. ES2MA-1 (KO29HI) Heard K3UK on 14076.12 KHz -19dB at 21:36:00Z using JT65A (6755 kms) G4ENZ-1 (IO81vv) Heard K3UK on 14076.11 KHz -17dB at 21:36:00Z using JT65A (3514 miles) F6DKQ-1 (JN37BI) Heard K3UK on 14076.13 KHz -11dB at 21:36:00Z using JT65A (3986 miles) Southern USA KD5JGA-1 (EM16rb) Heard K3UK on 14076.11 KHz -10dB at 21:36:00Z using JT65A N5LYJ-1 (EM03rv) Heard K3UK on 14076.08 KHz -9dB at 21:36:00Z using JT65A (1191 miles) KC5NYJ-1 (EL09rn) Heard K3UK on 14076.11 KHz -11dB at 21:36:00Z using JT65A (1380 miles) N4ABN-1 (DM59pd) Heard K3UK on 14076.10 KHz -17dB at 21:36:00Z using JT65A (1545 miles) WY5R-1 (DM95be) Heard K3UK on 14076.11 KHz -7dB at 21:36:00Z using JT65A (1307 miles) Local VE3CDX-1 (DM26ic) Heard K3UK on 14076.09 KHz -9dB at 21:36:00Z using JT65A (30 miles) Andy K3UK
Re: [digitalradio] Re: Using JT65A and W4CQZ RB for radiation pattern studies.
Julian, I didn't consider the brain. Oh my :-) Excellent information. Brain 1 computer 0. 73... Jon W1MNK g4ilo wrote: My own brain, pencil and paper. :) I just average out the reports from different stations. I use two different transmitters to send two WSPR transmissions at the same time and using the same power on different frequencies using the antenna under test and the one I am comparing it to. Julian, G4ILO --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com mailto:digitalradio%40yahoogroups.com, Jon Maguire w1...@... wrote: Hi Julian, What are you using to analyze the WSPR data after downloading? Thank you.
Re: [digitalradio] FCC - Spread Spectrum NPRM
Skip, Just a thought, but raspy signals on VHF/UHF are usually associated with aurora. Can you correlate that? 73... Jon W1MNK PS Great discussion!! KH6TY wrote: Hi Jose, We will be starting with tests of ROS 1 baud tomorrow but I will not have any results until next week, after we have been able to make tests over several days and under many different conditions. The tests with ROS 16 baud have been finished and our results are as I have already reported. Perhaps if the spreading were much wider, say as much a 10 kHz or 20 kHz, the result might be better, but then nobody on UHF SSB has an IF filter wider than 2.5 kHz anyway. It would probably take at least a SDR on both ends, I think, but so far those are still rare, even though they make excellent IF's for VHF and UHF transverters. So, wider spreading is just not practical. Whatever it is that is causing a raspy CW note, and raspy sounding ROS tones, must be destroying the data modulation on the carriers, but I do not know enough about the modulation technique or the autocorrelation function that ROS uses to understand why that is causing ROS to fail. Perhaps it is because EVERY tone in the bandpass is so badly distorted that autocorrelation is not possible and decoding fails (i.e. is the Doppler shift perhpas moving the carriers outside some very narrow DSP filter?). As best I can remember from my college days (50 years ago!), autocorrelation will only work if reoccurring signals are identified among random noise, but if the tones are distorted so they appear too much like the noise, correlation may not be possible. I am sure experienced communications theorists can make a better guess than I can! The Olivia tones are also raspy sounding, but Olivia survives and ROS does not. When the tones sound pure, ROS does OK, but that does not happen very often at fringe area reception on UHF, and mostly only when there is propagation enhancement. 73 - Skip KH6TY I promised to post the results of our attempts to use ROS on UHF on this reflector, and this is what we have found. So, it looks like Olivia is currently still the best digital mode to use on UHF, VHF, or HF for normal (not EME) digital QSO's. Skip, please do tell us. I am particularly quite curious about the results of your tests. 73, Jose, CO2JA
[digitalradio] Re: Making RSID de rigueur, for Olivia
Gentlemen, Excellent!!! Ideas!!! I have hearing problems, although I can make it in the outside world, telling the difference between modes can be a major pain. RSID has and will continue to broaden the scope of my digital operating. On the other hand, Gavin I see your point, and will shut RSID off on the common modes. 73 all, de Jon KT4KB WCC-10 --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Gavin g0...@... wrote: Agreed, it is handy for all digi modes.except psk31..why do people insist on using RSID for modes we all know? It gets damned annoying seeing little boxes popping up on my screen to tell me it has heard a psk31 signal.Qpsk even i could accept, but psk31 using rsid for psk31 is just dumb. So just use it for the more exotic modes please! --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, obrienaj k3ukandy@ wrote: I want to embark on a campaign to make RSID de rigueur, for Olivia. It is nice to see Olivia continue to be used as a mode , a very effective mode. However, Olivia users need to remind themselves that there are 10 common sets tones/bw, and despite their appearance in a waterfall, it is not easy to determine which Olivia variant it is. RS ID makes that so much easier. Please use it, it will increase your chances of a someone returning to your CQ. Andy K3UK
[digitalradio] Re: Netbook or Laptop Better
I have both a Dell Vostro laptop and an Acer Aspire One netbook. Both run Win XP. Other than the size, I much prefer the laptop: 1. The Aspire is slow. 1.3ghz sounds like a lot, but it can get frustrating. For example, running Digipan and hit the lookup button. While the browser is loading, everything just stops. Even trying to monitor multiple QSOs in Digipan can be a problem, especially if something else kicks in on the computer like Windows Update or my anti-virus/anti-spyware. 2. I've experienced problems with the Aspire and certain digital interfaces. For example, the Aspire locks up tight when I'm using it with a RIGblaster NOMIC. Not particularly during transmit, but more just on a regular cycle based on time (e.g., I've left it for 20 or 30 minutes without doing any transmitting and it still locks up). The problem seems to have something to do with power management and sleep/hibernate settings, but as much as I've been experimenting, I can't find a setting (including no sleep, no hibernate) that keeps the thing from locking up. I've tested with three other Aspire Ones and replicated the problem with each of them. I don't have the problem with the Dell. Jon KB1QBZ
[digitalradio] WINMOR software.
Has anyone found a place where it's possible to download the software without needing permissions first? Thier Yahoo groups (the only place I know where the software resides) requires one to signup and then limits applicants to licensed ham ops only. - Jon-FL StarChat IRC Network channels #wunclub and #monitor (2x Icom IC-R75, IC-R8500, Racal RA6790/GM, WJ-8716, Collins HF-2050, BCD996T, AOR ar-8200-MK3, HAL ST-8000a, M-8000, t2fd, D130NJ discone)
[digitalradio] Re: WINMOR software.
aa777888 wrote: .Unfortunately there is currently no way to monitor Winmor even with the RMS Express client software. RMS Express has no provisions for monitoring. Like any ARQ protocol that uses extensive FEC it is very difficult to monitor in any meaningful way because if you don't receive every packet of both stations things go to hell in a hand basket pretty quick. -- The monitoring of other ping-pong and/or FEC protocols like ax.25, arq-e, arq-e3, clover, and about 20 other types is old had. So I cant see it as an insurmountable problem. Sure there may be gaps but that is to be expected. Now it's just a waiting game for someone with access to the specs, and inclinations to write some software. I sincerely hope it doesnt remain a closed and unmonitorable system for very long. - Jon-FL StarChat IRC Network channels #wunclub and #monitor (2x Icom IC-R75, IC-R8500, Racal RA6790/GM, WJ-8716, Collins HF-2050, BCD996T, AOR ar-8200-MK3, HAL ST-8000a, M-8000, t2fd, D130NJ discone)
[digitalradio] New Window 7 Ham Group
I just created a group to discuss Windows 7 specific issues for Hams. Success/failure stories, hints, tips etc. are all welcome. Here are the details on Winham7: Group home page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Winham7 Group email address: winh...@yahoogroups.com 73... Jon W1MNK http://www.w1mnk.com
[digitalradio] New Digital Mode Winmor
http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2008/08/26/10284/?nc=1
[digitalradio] Re: New digital mode interface due for release 25/08/08
ARRL article: New HF Digital Protocol to Debut at DCC WINMOR, an HF digital protocol designed for use with the Winlink 2000 network, will be unveiled at the upcoming ARRL/TAPR Digital Communications Conference in Chicago, September 26-28. [see screen shot] http://www.arrl.org/news/images/nms/fullsized/373.gif http://www.arrl.org/news/images/nms/fullsized/373.gif According to developer Rick Muething, KN6KB, WINMOR will effectively eliminate the need for external PACTOR hardware. This new protocol is implemented through a Windows application that uses a computer sound card for all the analog-to-digital conversion. It provides error-free ARQ transfers within 200, 500 or 2000 Hz bandwidths, Muething said. In terms of throughput, Muething said that the 200-Hz WINMOR mode appears to equal the performance of PACTOR I. In WINMOR's 2000 Hz mode, its performance rivals PACTOR III. WINMOR is a work in progress, Muething said. We won't be pulling the wraps off a finished application at the conference. We're close, though. I'd like to see on-air testing in 3 to 6 months. DCC Conference information and registration is available online http://www.tapr.org/dcc http://www.tapr.org/dcc or by telephone at 972-671-8277. Rick Muething's presentation paper, WINMOR. . . A Sound Card ARQ Mode for Winlink HF Digital Messaging, is included in the conference proceedings. http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2008/08/26/10284/?nc=1 http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2008/08/26/10284/?nc=1
[digitalradio] Re: PSK reporter
Andrew, I've got to agree that Simon and Philip Gladstone have done a wonderful job in introducing this feature. Propagation studies are a great way for Hams to use their stations even when they cannot transmit. Jon W1MNK Brandon FL USA ***Celebrating 30 years in IT with IBM 4/24/08!!*** Simon must have been reading my mind. As I was sitting in the shack this morning with the PSK Reporter web page plotting my heard stations on the map, I was thinking... with the popularity of PSK31 the PSK Reporter pages have to be the best propagation tools there are. It is not live, updates every 5 minutes, but it really tells me a lot about the band I am monitoring. Too bad we cannot marry it to Joe DX of Spotcollector fame and have a verbal announcement when a new country (for the day) is plotted on the map. The WSPR mode and the N8FQ designed database are perhaps the most useful in terms of propgation but it takes time to study. PSK Reporter is easy, just look at the map of the world and see who you are hearing and who is hearing you.
[digitalradio] Re: Olivia
Sholto, does Multipsk support 2/250? I didn't see it in the selection list. 73... Jon W1MNK Has anyone ever experimented with the 2 tone Olivia submodes? How does say the 2/250 mode compare to regular RTTY? 73, Sholto KE7HPV
[digitalradio] Re: Narrow SSTV contact
Rick, Sounds good. Let's coordinate via http://www.obriensweb.com/sked/index.html ... the digitalradio page. 73... Jon W1MNK I don't recall ever using the SSTV part of Multipsk but would be willing to try it. 20 meters would likely be our best band between WI and FL? Perhaps 14.074? 73, Rick, KV9U
[digitalradio] Re: Narrow SSTV contact
Rick, Patrick sent me this... wanna play? :-) There is a Word document which goal is to show from two Multipsk snapshots how to do the basic operations in SSTV in MFSK16. This document (0.5 Mo) is available from my site site http://f6cte.free.fr/SSTV_IN_MFSK16_EASY_WITH_MULTIPSK.doc http://f6cte.free.fr/SSTV_IN_MFSK16_EASY_WITH_MULTIPSK.doc (copy and paste this adress in Internet Explorer (or equivalent) Net adress field). 73 Patrick I thought I read some thing about a way you could use MFSK16 or some other narrow mode and then switch over to send an image and then switch back. Or am I mistaken? 73, Rick, KV9U 73... Jon W1MNK
[digitalradio] SSB on 14070
Do any of the IARU regions allow voice on 14070? I ask, because around 1800EST, there was a S9+10 signal around this frequency. I wasn't in the same room as the rig, but was able to confirm (by turning the rig WAY UP and getting the XYL really mad!!) that it was voice, language not determined. I wonder if this was an interloper? Anyone else hear it? 73... Jon W1MNK
[digitalradio] Re: [multipsk] Remote Access Desktop, and remote digital operation
John I too use Remote Desktop on my local LAN to access my Ham gear. As far as access from the Internet, there could be an issue with a hardware or software firewall blocking inbound data. I need to try this here, as I have access too 2 WANs (ISPs) at home. 73... Jon W1MNK Brandon, FL USA John Bradley wrote: I have been fooling around with Windows XP remote access desktop, and found that I can readily access a desktop on any computer , wired or wireless, connected to my router. Further, I found that if I was signed in on the ham computer , and MultiPSK or MixW was running already, I could change modes etc and actually do a digital QSO from a remote computer. I also had the Kenwood rig control software running, so could change frequencies, power, etc etc . Since Digital doesn't need any audio feed to the remote, or microphone feed, it really lends itself to remote operations. Trying this from the internet though did not permit accessing the computer.. according to XP documentation it's possible but didn't work for me. It looks like we need a Virtual Private Network (VPN) to do this? Possible applications include remote control of a Station located in an EOC, and enabling folks like Patrick To access a station in North America to try the software personally. I'm not sure of the US laws, but know that Patrick could run a station here remotely, signing himself F6CTE/VE5 , since there is a reciprocal agreement between Canada and France Any bright ideas on how we can do this ? John VE5MU
[digitalradio] Re: help for setting pcale with FT1000 MP mark V
Hi Steve, Can you give a rundown as why dedicated PTT is better than CAT PTT? Thank you. I think you will find on a whole and especially within the ALE community that RTS/DTR hardware PTT is the standard to this day, just look at all the RigBlaster and other interfaces being used ( where if such an interface is the choice and RTS/CTS handshaking is being used either DTR for PTT or again the use of CAT PTT with such units in the Vox position would be used). begin:vcard fn:73... Jon W1MNK Brandon, FL USA EL87uv n:;73... Jon W1MNK Brandon, FL USA EL87uv version:2.1 end:vcard
[digitalradio] Re: ALE: Increased QRV/ Activity log for this evening
Hi Andrew, yes it was busy today!! I didn't copy you, but I captured [Call] [from W1CDO] [to K3UK] (his BER=30 + SINAD= 5) And this block is VERY interesting: [FAE] [from EA2AFR] (his BER=23 + SINAD= 2) [Sounding THIS WAS] [from EA2AFR] (his BER=29 + SINAD= 2) AFR[Sounding THIS WAS] [from EA2AFR] (his BER=26 + SINAD= 2) AFR[Sounding THIS WAS] [from EA2] (his BER=27 + SINAD= 2) AFR[Sounding THIS WAS] [from EA2AFR] (his BER=21 + SINAD= 2) You are using Multipsk, correct? If so, how did you turn on the time stamp? Thanks. 73... Jon W1MNK begin:vcard fn:73... Jon W1MNK Brandon, FL USA EL87uv n:;73... Jon W1MNK Brandon, FL USA EL87uv version:2.1 end:vcard
[digitalradio] AGC and Digital Modes
I would like to query the digital mode users regarding the AGC setting. I'm currently running PowerSDR 1.9.1 beta (original SVN), DXLabs Commander interfaced via VComm to a test version of Multipsk. I currently have the AGC set to MED, and I notice that when a strong PSK signal appears in the bandwidth, the AGC really cuts the signals back. I know it's supposed to do that, but I'm curious as to what is an optimal setting for digi modes. Thanks for any help and suggestions. 73... Jon W1MNK
[digitalradio] Re: What Mode Is It?
Hello Patrick, I never considered an unmodulated carrier!! Thank you for pointing that out. And I will use the automatic detection feature in the future :-) Thank you for your answer. Kind Regards es 73... Jon W1MNK Brandon, FL USA PS Thanks also to Matthew. Hello Jon, The 2000 Hz carrier does not seem modulated (tune ?) or perhaps at very low speed (PSK10 or PSKAM10?). Note: in Multipsk there is an automatic BPSK detection. You have just to click on the modulated carrier and wait several seconds to have the most probable BPSK mode (if the signal is sufficiently strong). 73 Patrick http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/message/22665
[digitalradio] What Mode Is It?
I've just posted a jpeg on my Web site. There is a signal that I can't identify at the 2000Hz marker of the waterfall. All comments welcome. Thank you. http://www.w1mnk.org 73... Jon W1MNK PS Pardon the Web site. I'm just getting going.
[digitalradio] Re: digital radio interactive sked page
Orrin, there are folks using other modes on the page. Thanks to Andy for such a great tool. 73... Jon W1MNK Just curious, is anyone on this list using the Digital Radio Interactive Sked Page (http://www.obriensweb.com/drsked/drsked.php) for anything other than HFLINKNET / ALE stuff? Or has anyone seen any activity there lately for other than ALE testing? Just checking. Orrin wn1z in northeast Calif.
[digitalradio] Re: ethernet or wireless
I'm operate from my family room via wireless to all my wired PCs in the shack/data center. Even my work PC!! Wireless is the way to go. I found that you may have to fix your wireless router on a quiet channel (use Net Stumbler) to prevent interference. I have 3 wireless LANs and 2 WANs. I'm trying to get the 2 WANs bridge, either wireless or wired. 73... Jon W1MNK Brandon, FL USA
[digitalradio] Re: Waterfall Identifications
Hello Patrick, The Olivia page in the Web site http://f1ult.free.fr/DIGIMODES/MULTIPSK/digimodesF6CTE_en.htm is blank. I thought you'd like to know!! :-) 73... Jon W1MNK
[digitalradio] Waterfall Identifications
There was a UK Web site that has a comprehensive display of waterfall displays for many modes. I can't find that site. Does any one know what it is? Many thanks in advance. 73... Jon W1MNK
[digitalradio] Re: Most robust digi-mode with 200 to 600 bps ?
Documentation please... cesco12342000 wrote @rick: drm (ofdm) runs circles around scamp, and outperforms pactor3 in data rate at given snr as well besides that the robot-qrm mode is insanely expensive. 73... Jon W1MNK Brandon, FL USA http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/message/22355
[digitalradio] Re: DV: WinDRM vs AOR9xxx vs DSTAR
Tony, most interesting information. Many thanks for posting. Please email me offline about your testing. I would be most interested in participating if possible. 73... Jon W1MNK Jon, I have no idea about DSTAR, but did do some path simulator testing with WinDRM and the latest variants as well as the AOR fast modem. Nothing serious, just some informal testing from PC-to-PC. The modes were tested for sensitivity and the ability to fight ionospheric distortion. Some QRM tests were also done by mixing on-air QRM with the digtial voice signals. They all sound great and work well with a clear channel and high signal-to-noise ratio, but the better mode shows itself when the going gets rough. It would seem that the latest WinDRM variant offers the the best compromise between audio quality and robustness. We are still beta testing the mode with on air testing when we can. Tony KT2Q
[digitalradio] DV: WinDRM vs AOR9xxx vs DSTAR
Has any testing been done on the DV modes above? WinDVM sure looks attractive as no additiona hardware is required. Thanks for any/all replies. 73... Jon W1MNK
[digitalradio] Re: FCC Failure
Pactor III will violate Part 97 when the new rules go into affect and in fact *may violate Part 97 now due to other problems associated with the mode. *Walt, please elaborate on the second part of this statement. Thank you. 73... Jon W1MNK
[digitalradio] Re: Omnibus rules published in Federal Register
As of Dec 15 Pactor-III running at a bandwidth of greater than 500 Hz (such as Winlink) is not permissible below 30 MHz. This is one of the petition to reconsider items being considered by the ARRL Board of Directors. Of course any digital mode 500Hz bandwidth on any frequency =30Mhz is not permissible now. Bummer. Digital imaging with embedded symbols (stegenography) anyone? Please? 73... Jon W1MNK
[digitalradio] Digital Modes for Emergency Communication Was:Re: W1MNK 11-1
Walt, thanks for the comments and insights. I actually sent this to wrong place, but I am very interested in digital modes, both packet and non-packet base for use for emergency communications. 73... Jon W1MNK Need a Digital mode QSO? Connect to Telnet://cluster.dynalias.org Other areas of interest: The MixW Reflector : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup/ DigiPol: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digipol (band plan policy discussion) Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[digitalradio] W1MNK 11-1
1 and 2, I have sent email to my section manager to find a emcomm contact. I'll update when possible. 3. Suppose that during an emergency activation, you find yourself to be the leader of the local emcomm group. To which agency would you report? To whom within the agency would you report? What would your duties be as leader of the emcomm group? Report to the logistics director of the first responding agency. Co-ordinate all communications activities. Need a Digital mode QSO? Connect to Telnet://cluster.dynalias.org Other areas of interest: The MixW Reflector : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup/ DigiPol: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digipol (band plan policy discussion) Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[digitalradio] Re: Concerning Signal Detection
My uncle, Charles Sumner Williams (author of Introduction to the Optical Transfer Function), who taught radio at Scott Field during WWII and retired from TI said that the problem with computer signal detection (we were discussing CW) was trying to duplicate with a computer what the human brain could do was difficult. However, once you succeeds, the computer is likely to be able to do the job better. Walt, part of what your Uncle was explaining is Heuristics ie. In computer science http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_science, a *heuristic* is a technique designed to solve a problem that ignores whether the solution can be proven to be correct, but which usually produces a good solution or solves a simpler problem that contains or intersects with the solution of the more complex problem. -- wikipedia.org Until we can introduct a heuristic characterstic to an SDR, the results will be limited. 73... Jon W1MNK Need a Digital mode QSO? Connect to Telnet://cluster.dynalias.org Other areas of interest: The MixW Reflector : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup/ DigiPol: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digipol (band plan policy discussion) Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[digitalradio] Re: Too much fighting
Well, this is one very good, hearty, polite, technical discussion. 73... Jon W1MNK Need a Digital mode QSO? Connect to Telnet://cluster.dynalias.org Other areas of interest: The MixW Reflector : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup/ DigiPol: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digipol (band plan policy discussion) Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[digitalradio] Re: Digital modes in emergency communication (was Field Day and PSK31 )
Andrew, You bring up some interesting points. Also, your question about how many Ham use digital modes is really the heart of the issues of voice vs. digital modes. I think that the issue should be training Hams in digital modes as part of emergency training. While voice is excellent for emergency communications, digital is much more suited for transmission of data such as statistics and other non-alpha data. So, in short, I think that the goal of ARES/RACES and other emergency services should be to train up Hams, rather than go to the least common denominator and use mainly voice. 73... Jon W1MNK Andrew O'brien wrote Keeping this thread digital related, my main point is that the USA system has developed a very good method for transmission of urgent information. However, the use of Pactor and PACKET has added an layer that complicates simple emergency communications. As my recent Field Day demo illustrated, the majority of hams have NO CLUE on how to set up digital modes for use with amateur radio, even for a non-emergency digital rag-chew. And, as a ham involved in a recent drill told me, I am at least experienced in some digital modes but still had difficulty remembering Flex-Net and Winlink processes. Can you imagine what it would have been like in a real scenario where the hams that turned up were hams with no knowledge of anything other than using a repeater. While their ability to use a simple repeater system may have been all the skills they needed, the drill organizers had deliberately established packet radio as the method for liaison between government officials and RACES. I wonder how many hams actually USE digital modes? I am going to guess that is or probably no more than 15 percent of licensed hams. I think WINLINK and other such systems work wonderfully well, but think the backbone of an emergency communication system should be based on the skills and capabilities of the average ham, not the specialist ham. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out the enhanced email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/SISQkA/gOaOAA/yQLSAA/ELTolB/TM ~- Need a Digital mode QSO? Connect to Telnet://cluster.dynalias.org Other areas of interest: The MixW Reflector : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup/ DigiPol: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digipol (band plan policy discussion) Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[digitalradio] Re: Field Day and PSK31
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/message/15345 Check out http://www.winlink.org and http://www.airmail2000.com There is no requirement to use SCS modems or Pactor for this to work. 73... Jon W1MNK Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/TISQkA/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/ELTolB/TM ~- Need a Digital mode QSO? Connect to Telnet://cluster.dynalias.org Other areas of interest: The MixW Reflector : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup/ DigiPol: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digipol (band plan policy discussion) Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[digitalradio] Re: All Channels are Busy Channels? Free Decoding Rights?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/message/15268 Just out of curiosity, and not meant as a flame Wouldn't two Hams talking in Navajo or some other very obscure language be illegal? It could easily be construed that this was being done to obscure the meaning of the message. Also, take a mode like PSK31... very common mode. What about two Hams using that mode, but sending multi digit groups that only they hold the key to decrypt. Would that be considered an attempt to obscure the message? Just a couple of thoughts for discussion purposes. 73... Jon W1MNK Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/TISQkA/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/ELTolB/TM ~- Need a Digital mode QSO? Connect to Telnet://cluster.dynalias.org Other areas of interest: The MixW Reflector : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup/ DigiPol: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digipol (band plan policy discussion) Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[digitalradio] Re: All Channels are Busy Channels? Free Decod ing Rights?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/message/15290 Walt and Rick, excellent points. Nothing like an intellectual discussion for what ails you!! 73... Jon W1MNK Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/2pRQfA/bOaOAA/yQLSAA/ELTolB/TM ~- Need a Digital mode QSO? Connect to Telnet://cluster.dynalias.org Other areas of interest: The MixW Reflector : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup/ DigiPol: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digipol (band plan policy discussion) Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[digitalradio] Re: I Should Know The Answer - Confused Myself
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/message/15196 Although it may be a no-no, you could use steganography to embed non-image data within an image. Now let's here some word on this as long as the specification is published, and there is not intent to obscure data from view, then I wonder if this would be against Part 97.309(4)? Remember, this would be a message encoded within an image, and transmitted as an image. This would open up more bandwidth for data transmissions. Just a thought for brain stimulation. No flames please :-) 73... Jon Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out the enhanced email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/SISQkA/gOaOAA/yQLSAA/ELTolB/TM ~- Need a Digital mode QSO? Connect to Telnet://cluster.dynalias.org Other areas of interest: The MixW Reflector : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup/ DigiPol: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digipol (band plan policy discussion) Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[digitalradio] Re: Digital Video on 12.5khz channel
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/message/15125 Paul, I believe you are correct. According to http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/regulations/news/part97/Part97.pdf 97.305 Note 5, the authorized bandwidth at 144.1-148.0 is 20Khz 73... Jon W1MNK Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Home is just a click away.� Make Yahoo! your home page now. http://us.click.yahoo.com/DHchtC/3FxNAA/yQLSAA/ELTolB/TM ~- Need a Digital mode QSO? Connect to Telnet://cluster.dynalias.org Other areas of interest: The MixW Reflector : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup/ DigiPol: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digipol (band plan policy discussion) Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[digitalradio] Pactor II / III Keboard to Keyboard And Other Questions
1 Does anybody have a feel for how many Hams are using PII and PIII for keyboard QSOs? 2. SCS has a patent on these modes. What exactly is patented? I know the hardware must be, and probably a software element like compression can be patented, but what else? 3. In reference to 2, is it possible to patent tone and modulation techniques? 4. If 4 is false, then couldn't a mode be reverse engineered, and then changes made to the patented portions? I am in no way suggesting that this be done with any particular mode or format. 73... Jon W1MNK http://www.w1mnk.org Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Protect your PC from spy ware with award winning anti spy technology. It's free. http://us.click.yahoo.com/97bhrC/LGxNAA/yQLSAA/ELTolB/TM ~- Need a Digital mode QSO? Connect to Telnet://cluster.dynalias.org Other areas of interest: The MixW Reflector : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup/ DigiPol: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digipol (band plan policy discussion) Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[digitalradio] Re: Digital Video on 12.5khz channel
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/message/15115 Sam, this sounds veery interesting. A good lossless compression would be Huffman coding, along with the one's that Patrick referenced. I would be most interested in reading more. 73... Jon W1MNK Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Protect your PC from spy ware with award winning anti spy technology. It's free. http://us.click.yahoo.com/97bhrC/LGxNAA/yQLSAA/ELTolB/TM ~- Need a Digital mode QSO? Connect to Telnet://cluster.dynalias.org Other areas of interest: The MixW Reflector : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup/ DigiPol: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digipol (band plan policy discussion) Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[digitalradio] Re: Pactor II / III Keboard to Keyboard And Other Questions
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/message/15116 John, wow, a 28ARS. I remember repairing those, and 15s, 19s, 33s when I worked for RCA Global Comm. A lifetime ago, it seems. I bet I could take one apart and reassemble it :-) On your (4), I wasn't aware of a PC implementation of P2 or P3. I know SCS has the patent on the mode, but it seems to me that they could make additional money by licensing a PC version. 73... Jon W1MNK Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- You can search right from your browser? It's easy and it's free. See how. http://us.click.yahoo.com/_7bhrC/NGxNAA/yQLSAA/ELTolB/TM ~- Need a Digital mode QSO? Connect to Telnet://cluster.dynalias.org Other areas of interest: The MixW Reflector : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup/ DigiPol: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digipol (band plan policy discussion) Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[digitalradio] Re: Remote
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/message/15100 Mike, If you have audio going thru your soundcard, you'll need to use an VoIP client/server like Skype, Gizmo or TeamSpeak. Google any of those and I think'll you find what you need. 73... Jon W1MNK Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Protect your PC from spy ware with award winning anti spy technology. It's free. http://us.click.yahoo.com/97bhrC/LGxNAA/yQLSAA/ELTolB/TM ~- Need a Digital mode QSO? Connect to Telnet://cluster.dynalias.org Other areas of interest: The MixW Reflector : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup/ DigiPol: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digipol (band plan policy discussion) Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[digitalradio] Sound Card Packet via RigBlaster
I'm in need of some help from someoone who is familliar with Rigblaster and Packet. I was exited when I got it up until the point I hooked it all up. I then realised that there are no instructions how to operate the *$! thing! I tried trial and error, no luck. I can connect to a node but if I try to enter the commands the node lists (don't know if doing it correctly) it does nothing. So far all I can do is watch beacons transmit and watch the same people get e-mail notifications. Is this all packet is cracked up to be? WOW, lots of fun. I'm starting to think I wasted $100 Someone help me, please. Reply via e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Need a Digital mode QSO? Connect to Telnet://cluster.dynalias.org Other areas of interest: The MixW Reflector : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup/ DigiPol: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digipol (band plan policy discussion) SPONSORED LINKS Ham radio Craft hobby Hobby and craft supply YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "digitalradio" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[digitalradio] CHIP64/128
Is anybody using these modes? http://xoomer.alice.it/aporcino/Chip64/index.htm Looks interesting. 73... Jon W1MNK Need a Digital mode QSO? Connect to Telnet://cluster.dynalias.org Other areas of interest: The MixW Reflector : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup/ DigiPol: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digipol (band plan policy discussion) SPONSORED LINKS Ham radio Craft hobby Hobby and craft supply YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "digitalradio" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[digitalradio] Re: [Remote access software to help hams?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/message/14985 Hi Andy, Yes, you will need to use your ISP assigned [EMAIL PROTECTED] Also, whatever PC you intend to access, you must run VNC server (be sure to set up a password). On the other PC, you'll need to run VNC client. All the information is at http://realvnc.com/faq.html 73... Jon W1MNK If both PCs are running WinXP, give Remote Desktop a try. Need a Digital mode QSO? Connect to Telnet://cluster.dynalias.org Other areas of interest: The MixW Reflector : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup/ DigiPol: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digipol (band plan policy discussion) SPONSORED LINKS Ham radio Craft hobby Hobby and craft supply YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "digitalradio" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[digitalradio] Re: Automation and the New Solar Cycle
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/message/14878 How is it that these stations don't have the capability to monitor the frequency used? How difficult can that be? It's a simple thing to do in software. 73... Jon W1MNK Need a Digital mode QSO? Connect to Telnet://cluster.dynalias.org Other areas of interest: The MixW Reflector : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup/ DigiPol: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digipol (band plan policy discussion) SPONSORED LINKS Ham radio Craft hobby Hobby and craft supply YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "digitalradio" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[digitalradio] Re: No RSS?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/message/14788 Andy, I just added it to TBird. Very nice. Thanks!! 73... W1MNK Need a Digital mode QSO? Connect to Telnet://cluster.dynalias.org Other areas of interest: The MixW Reflector : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup/ DigiPol: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digipol (band plan policy discussion) SPONSORED LINKS Ham radio Craft hobby Hobby and craft supply YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "digitalradio" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[digitalradio] No RSS?
I'm curious as to why this group doesn't have an RSS link. Sure make for easier reading with Thunderbird!! 73... Jon Maguire W1MNK Brandon, FL USA "The four boxes of Democracy: Soap, Jury, Ballot and Cartridge" Need a Digital mode QSO? Connect to Telnet://cluster.dynalias.org Other areas of interest: The MixW Reflector : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup/ DigiPol: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digipol (band plan policy discussion) YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "digitalradio" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
