Re: [board-discuss] Conference Travel Support
Simon Phipps wrote: I've not seen any statement about financial support for travel to Berlin for the LibreOffice Conference. Is there a budget and process in hand for this, or are we defaulting to the published policy? Hi Simon, thanks for bringing that up. There's an initial budget approved by the board on 2012-08-08, see http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/TDF/BoD_Decisions , so far approval was on a per-request basis. FWICT there's no final, fixed budget available yet (partly because of very late sponsor signups, partly because of unclear spendings on other fronts, video recording swag), but I think it's safe to assume that we can spend beyond this initial budget. The organizer team will finish up registration tonight, and then the plan is to mail all participants with further details - that could as well include suggestions on how where to request travel bursaries. I hope that clears it up enough - please do follow-up with further questions, either here on board-discuss, or privately to the board, or me personally ASAP. Especially if you have unmet travel needs, or even worse, have not booked your travel yet. ;) Cheers, -- Thorsten pgp7d0NmU5Omu.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Forums Proposal
Christian, I don't think my tone was inappropriate, but if it really was I am sorry and it was not my intention. I still disagree with the approach of mixing both contributors and users forums development this way, but you should not infer that I am against contributors forums..to me it is a very valid option for some type of contributions and teams, while not being an option for others. My point is on the approach, not on the content of the proposal. Best, Charles. Le 8 oct. 2012 03:27, Christian Lohmaier lohmaier+ooofut...@googlemail.com a écrit : Hi Charles, *, On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 at 4:26 PM, Charles-H. Schulz charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org wrote: But the discussion was started about users forums. Anything besides that would require the interested teams to have been consulted before. This thread (or these threads, as they have gone to various lists, the interesting teams) /is/ the consulting *before*. As Marc correctly pointed out: This is part of the job he and the other coordinators did volunteer for. Get the initial forum structure sorted out, ask the affected people for their input. Your reply (or should I say the tone of your reply) was not appropriate in this scenario. What I fear at this stage is both confusion from new contributors (for instance someone submitting a patch to a forum might never get picked up because devs would not bother reading the forum) and exhaustion from the moderators. Björn and others made it pretty clear from the very start that core development will continue to use the mailinglists, and I don't remember anyone questioning that, so the notification was just that. - A notification. No list will be forced to move to the forum. If people complain, then they complain and state: No, thanks. If you read the mails, you notice that this is one of the options that were offered. That now you tell the Board wants a forum exclusively meant for user-support I reply WTF did nobody else from the board point that out earlier. Björn after all is Deputy on the Board, and his input early in the process was the basis for all this, as it was quite a reasonable thing to do. So while I don't question your intentions, I question your style in this regard. Yes, suggesting to move a list to the forum is controversial, Björn did already anticipate that. But that by itself doesn't make it a stupid idea that needs to be stopped at all cost. Just say: No thanks, I prefer to keep whatever to use the mailinglists and move on to the next topic. ciao Christian -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Forums Proposal
I think until we get things going that we should focus ONLY on user forums for now and then we can slowly add contributors sections once we get the teething problems and issues sorted and a steady work flow going. On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 10:17 AM, Charles-H. Schulz charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org wrote: Christian, I don't think my tone was inappropriate, but if it really was I am sorry and it was not my intention. I still disagree with the approach of mixing both contributors and users forums development this way, but you should not infer that I am against contributors forums..to me it is a very valid option for some type of contributions and teams, while not being an option for others. My point is on the approach, not on the content of the proposal. Best, Charles. Le 8 oct. 2012 03:27, Christian Lohmaier lohmaier+ooofut...@googlemail.com a écrit : Hi Charles, *, On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 at 4:26 PM, Charles-H. Schulz charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org wrote: But the discussion was started about users forums. Anything besides that would require the interested teams to have been consulted before. This thread (or these threads, as they have gone to various lists, the interesting teams) /is/ the consulting *before*. As Marc correctly pointed out: This is part of the job he and the other coordinators did volunteer for. Get the initial forum structure sorted out, ask the affected people for their input. Your reply (or should I say the tone of your reply) was not appropriate in this scenario. What I fear at this stage is both confusion from new contributors (for instance someone submitting a patch to a forum might never get picked up because devs would not bother reading the forum) and exhaustion from the moderators. Björn and others made it pretty clear from the very start that core development will continue to use the mailinglists, and I don't remember anyone questioning that, so the notification was just that. - A notification. No list will be forced to move to the forum. If people complain, then they complain and state: No, thanks. If you read the mails, you notice that this is one of the options that were offered. That now you tell the Board wants a forum exclusively meant for user-support I reply WTF did nobody else from the board point that out earlier. Björn after all is Deputy on the Board, and his input early in the process was the basis for all this, as it was quite a reasonable thing to do. So while I don't question your intentions, I question your style in this regard. Yes, suggesting to move a list to the forum is controversial, Björn did already anticipate that. But that by itself doesn't make it a stupid idea that needs to be stopped at all cost. Just say: No thanks, I prefer to keep whatever to use the mailinglists and move on to the next topic. ciao Christian -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Jonathan Aquilina -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Forums Proposal
I agree with Jonathan and others, and indeed said as much some time ago when the forums were first being discussed. At the time Björn appeared to be quite emphatic about the opposite point of view (forums for contributors being at least as important, if not more so), and I was under the impression that was the Board's preference too, so I didn't argue further. Sounds like I may not have not been paying enough attention. --Jean On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 10:28 AM, Jonathan Aquilina eagles051...@gmail.com wrote: I think until we get things going that we should focus ONLY on user forums for now and then we can slowly add contributors sections once we get the teething problems and issues sorted and a steady work flow going. On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 10:17 AM, Charles-H. Schulz charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org wrote: Christian, I don't think my tone was inappropriate, but if it really was I am sorry and it was not my intention. I still disagree with the approach of mixing both contributors and users forums development this way, but you should not infer that I am against contributors forums..to me it is a very valid option for some type of contributions and teams, while not being an option for others. My point is on the approach, not on the content of the proposal. Best, Charles. Le 8 oct. 2012 03:27, Christian Lohmaier lohmaier+ooofut...@googlemail.com a écrit : Hi Charles, *, On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 at 4:26 PM, Charles-H. Schulz charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org wrote: But the discussion was started about users forums. Anything besides that would require the interested teams to have been consulted before. This thread (or these threads, as they have gone to various lists, the interesting teams) /is/ the consulting *before*. As Marc correctly pointed out: This is part of the job he and the other coordinators did volunteer for. Get the initial forum structure sorted out, ask the affected people for their input. Your reply (or should I say the tone of your reply) was not appropriate in this scenario. What I fear at this stage is both confusion from new contributors (for instance someone submitting a patch to a forum might never get picked up because devs would not bother reading the forum) and exhaustion from the moderators. Björn and others made it pretty clear from the very start that core development will continue to use the mailinglists, and I don't remember anyone questioning that, so the notification was just that. - A notification. No list will be forced to move to the forum. If people complain, then they complain and state: No, thanks. If you read the mails, you notice that this is one of the options that were offered. That now you tell the Board wants a forum exclusively meant for user-support I reply WTF did nobody else from the board point that out earlier. Björn after all is Deputy on the Board, and his input early in the process was the basis for all this, as it was quite a reasonable thing to do. So while I don't question your intentions, I question your style in this regard. Yes, suggesting to move a list to the forum is controversial, Björn did already anticipate that. But that by itself doesn't make it a stupid idea that needs to be stopped at all cost. Just say: No thanks, I prefer to keep whatever to use the mailinglists and move on to the next topic. ciao Christian -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Forums Proposal
I am now wondering if this should be put forth to the board that way we can get a clear end all decision and move forward with the forums and getting them going. On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 11:23 AM, Jean Weber jeanwe...@gmail.com wrote: I agree with Jonathan and others, and indeed said as much some time ago when the forums were first being discussed. At the time Björn appeared to be quite emphatic about the opposite point of view (forums for contributors being at least as important, if not more so), and I was under the impression that was the Board's preference too, so I didn't argue further. Sounds like I may not have not been paying enough attention. --Jean On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 10:28 AM, Jonathan Aquilina eagles051...@gmail.com wrote: I think until we get things going that we should focus ONLY on user forums for now and then we can slowly add contributors sections once we get the teething problems and issues sorted and a steady work flow going. On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 10:17 AM, Charles-H. Schulz charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org wrote: Christian, I don't think my tone was inappropriate, but if it really was I am sorry and it was not my intention. I still disagree with the approach of mixing both contributors and users forums development this way, but you should not infer that I am against contributors forums..to me it is a very valid option for some type of contributions and teams, while not being an option for others. My point is on the approach, not on the content of the proposal. Best, Charles. Le 8 oct. 2012 03:27, Christian Lohmaier lohmaier+ooofut...@googlemail.com a écrit : Hi Charles, *, On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 at 4:26 PM, Charles-H. Schulz charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org wrote: But the discussion was started about users forums. Anything besides that would require the interested teams to have been consulted before. This thread (or these threads, as they have gone to various lists, the interesting teams) /is/ the consulting *before*. As Marc correctly pointed out: This is part of the job he and the other coordinators did volunteer for. Get the initial forum structure sorted out, ask the affected people for their input. Your reply (or should I say the tone of your reply) was not appropriate in this scenario. What I fear at this stage is both confusion from new contributors (for instance someone submitting a patch to a forum might never get picked up because devs would not bother reading the forum) and exhaustion from the moderators. Björn and others made it pretty clear from the very start that core development will continue to use the mailinglists, and I don't remember anyone questioning that, so the notification was just that. - A notification. No list will be forced to move to the forum. If people complain, then they complain and state: No, thanks. If you read the mails, you notice that this is one of the options that were offered. That now you tell the Board wants a forum exclusively meant for user-support I reply WTF did nobody else from the board point that out earlier. Björn after all is Deputy on the Board, and his input early in the process was the basis for all this, as it was quite a reasonable thing to do. So while I don't question your intentions, I question your style in this regard. Yes, suggesting to move a list to the forum is controversial, Björn did already anticipate that. But that by itself doesn't make it a stupid idea that needs to be stopped at all cost. Just say: No thanks, I prefer to keep whatever to use the mailinglists and move on to the next topic. ciao Christian -- Jonathan Aquilina -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Forums Proposal
I think it's too late for that, and not appropriate at this time. Let's see what the response is to the notes already sent to the various mailing lists, and work from there. --Jean On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 12:14 PM, Jonathan Aquilina eagles051...@gmail.com wrote: I am now wondering if this should be put forth to the board that way we can get a clear end all decision and move forward with the forums and getting them going. On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 11:23 AM, Jean Weber jeanwe...@gmail.com wrote: I agree with Jonathan and others, and indeed said as much some time ago when the forums were first being discussed. At the time Björn appeared to be quite emphatic about the opposite point of view (forums for contributors being at least as important, if not more so), and I was under the impression that was the Board's preference too, so I didn't argue further. Sounds like I may not have not been paying enough attention. --Jean On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 10:28 AM, Jonathan Aquilina eagles051...@gmail.com wrote: I think until we get things going that we should focus ONLY on user forums for now and then we can slowly add contributors sections once we get the teething problems and issues sorted and a steady work flow going. On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 10:17 AM, Charles-H. Schulz charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org wrote: Christian, I don't think my tone was inappropriate, but if it really was I am sorry and it was not my intention. I still disagree with the approach of mixing both contributors and users forums development this way, but you should not infer that I am against contributors forums..to me it is a very valid option for some type of contributions and teams, while not being an option for others. My point is on the approach, not on the content of the proposal. Best, Charles. Le 8 oct. 2012 03:27, Christian Lohmaier lohmaier+ooofut...@googlemail.com a écrit : Hi Charles, *, On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 at 4:26 PM, Charles-H. Schulz charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org wrote: But the discussion was started about users forums. Anything besides that would require the interested teams to have been consulted before. This thread (or these threads, as they have gone to various lists, the interesting teams) /is/ the consulting *before*. As Marc correctly pointed out: This is part of the job he and the other coordinators did volunteer for. Get the initial forum structure sorted out, ask the affected people for their input. Your reply (or should I say the tone of your reply) was not appropriate in this scenario. What I fear at this stage is both confusion from new contributors (for instance someone submitting a patch to a forum might never get picked up because devs would not bother reading the forum) and exhaustion from the moderators. Björn and others made it pretty clear from the very start that core development will continue to use the mailinglists, and I don't remember anyone questioning that, so the notification was just that. - A notification. No list will be forced to move to the forum. If people complain, then they complain and state: No, thanks. If you read the mails, you notice that this is one of the options that were offered. That now you tell the Board wants a forum exclusively meant for user-support I reply WTF did nobody else from the board point that out earlier. Björn after all is Deputy on the Board, and his input early in the process was the basis for all this, as it was quite a reasonable thing to do. So while I don't question your intentions, I question your style in this regard. Yes, suggesting to move a list to the forum is controversial, Björn did already anticipate that. But that by itself doesn't make it a stupid idea that needs to be stopped at all cost. Just say: No thanks, I prefer to keep whatever to use the mailinglists and move on to the next topic. ciao Christian -- Jonathan Aquilina -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Forums Proposal
On 10/08/2012 03:14 AM, Jonathan Aquilina wrote: I am now wondering if this should be put forth to the board that way we can get a clear end all decision and move forward with the forums and getting them going. I think we are well beyond this and we should move forward as is, both user and contributors forum. WORST CASE we have a contributor section that isn't used, so be it, we deal with that IF AND ONLY IF that happens. I don't understand why it's gotten so much attention so close to going live. Going to the board will only delay what needs to be done, which is getting a forum together, up and running, as soon as possible. We still have several more things to do before this can happen, delaying this step only delays the entire project. Also, let's keep in mind that the top contributors have not been so vocally against the section, to me this is a big deal. If you look at who is the heads of the UX group, the QA group, the developers, etc...they haven't been nearly as vocal about this. Again very worst case we have a dead contributor section, and to me, this is a very small price to pay for moving forward as soon as possible Regards, Joel -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Forums Proposal
Hi everyone, Le 2012-10-08 12:11, Joel Madero a écrit : On 10/08/2012 03:14 AM, Jonathan Aquilina wrote: I am now wondering if this should be put forth to the board that way we can get a clear end all decision and move forward with the forums and getting them going. I think we are well beyond this and we should move forward as is, both user and contributors forum. WORST CASE we have a contributor section that isn't used, so be it, we deal with that IF AND ONLY IF that happens. I don't understand why it's gotten so much attention so close to going live. Going to the board will only delay what needs to be done, which is getting a forum together, up and running, as soon as possible. We still have several more things to do before this can happen, delaying this step only delays the entire project. Also, let's keep in mind that the top contributors have not been so vocally against the section, to me this is a big deal. If you look at who is the heads of the UX group, the QA group, the developers, etc...they haven't been nearly as vocal about this. Again very worst case we have a dead contributor section, and to me, this is a very small price to pay for moving forward as soon as possible Regards, Joel The option to open a contributor forums for any section will always be open. It is not like this is a once in a lifetime offer. If a section thinks they may like to have a forums later, they only need to ask, and it will be added. So far though, IMO, not enough interest from any contributor sections, so no contributor forums will be added. Keep in mind though, we are asking people on mailing lists (who have already shown preference, in large part, for communication on mailing lists medium. If we are looking for newer contributors, then, those who would prefer forums will not be offered a chance to join in on the contribution. There are no advocates speaking in the name of the contributor-forums people. IMO, it's really a catch-22 ... we are in need of new contributors, some sections are in fact, in dire need of contributors (we are not only talking of devs, but the other people who make up the various parts of the project (designers, marketers, documentors, wiki-updaters, webmasters, website maintainers and the list is quite large!); the people who are already contributing are those who are mostly interested/specializing on communicating through the mailing lists, with very little interest in forums talk and its organization of information. If we ask these people which medium the prefer, well, the answer is pretty obvious -- this is why they are on the mailing lists. There are no advocates for the potential contributors who may prefer the forums medium. If we consider this, and base our decision, less on an emotional response, but on the desire to attract new contributors, we should offer potential contributors a door into our contributor-world. Who knows, the OOo contributors who are now on the LibO contributor project have been so entrenched on the use of mailing lists for so long, perhaps you may find that a good portion of contributors will find the forums a better medium of conversation. Trying a forums option for a few months to gauge any response, again, IMO, would be a good measurement, and, could later be adapted as an entry-point to the contributor side of the project. The fact remains, that we are looking for ways to firstly help our user-base, and, from there, to gain a larger contributor base. Trying out a contributor forums is not a very big spoiler for the project if it doesn't work out. Any of the information on any forums may be moved around or even migrated to the mailing lists even if we have to do it by hand. Let's face it, if there is too much information, then the contributor forums are working. I am off to celebrate our day of Thanksgiving with family (celebrated in Canada on this day), and will be back later tonight (UTC-5). Wishes of a nice to day to everyone. Cheers, Marc -- Marc Paré m...@marcpare.com http://www.parEntreprise.com parEntreprise.com Supports OpenDocument Formats (ODF) parEntreprise.com Supports http://www.LibreOffice.org -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
