Re: [slim] How do you want to create/manage playlists ?
erland wrote: To anyone that currently uses static playlists: 1. How many static playlists do you have for your library ? 2. Is a static playlist typically something you make, use for a single event/party and deletes afterwards ? 3. Is a static playlist typically something you make once and never change afterwards ? 4. Can you give some examples of static playlists which you currently have and use continuously ? (name + when you use them) I have a handfull, under 10, static playlists that I keep around always. Very occasionally I'll make a playlist for a party/event, but only in situations where I really want to control the exact content and wouldn't be happy with a random play of a set of genres (most likely) or use a Pandora station. I use static playlists for cases where I can't generate the list from tags. For example, I have a list called Female Folk singers, which actually pulls from several genres (Folk, Bluegrass, Country, Alt). I have another called Evening Jazz, which is just my personal, subjective selection of jazz I'd like to hear with dinner. Again, not something I can easily create with tag filters. I have a similar playlist called BigBand Dinner. I also uses static lists to pull together material of a very narrow but meaningful (to me) criterion. For example, I have a list that collects folky-bluesey-RB tunes that feature hammond organ. Weird, I know. Anyway, all of these are built by hand -- just go through my collection bit-by-bit and decide if a piece belongs. In fact, I think I built most of them in J.River Media center. wnshall's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5886 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94988 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] How do you want to create/manage playlists ?
erland wrote: 1. What kind of device would you like to use when creating the playlists ? - A computer - A tablet - A smart phone - A Logitech Controller, Radio or Touch display - A IR remote - Something else I currently mostly use the computer. If playlist generation was simple, I suppose I would use any other interface, such as tablet, smart phone, Controller. After using phone/tablet, using the IR remote seems cumbersome at best. erland wrote: 2. How do you decide what should be part of a playlist ? - By selecting the individual tracks you want to include - By selecting the albums you want to include - By selecting the artists you want to include - By automatically selecting 100 tracks that matches some search criteria (genre, ratings, ...) - Something else I would want to easily use all of these methods. There are scenarios where you want to handpick individual tracks. There are other scenarios where I want to include an artist's whole output (for example, to create a playlist of Neil Young, the Stones, the Band, and others, but not the Dead, Yes, Pink Floyd, etc., all of which are tagged with GENRE=Classic Rock.) erland wrote: 3. How do you decide which order the tracks should have in the playlist ? - Random ordered tracks - Random ordered albums - Drag and drop albums to put them into the right order - Drag and drop tracks to put them into the right order - Something else I usually play playlists in random order (either by track or by album, although mostly by track), but can imagine occasions where I might want to preserve the order. Drag and Dropping to establish order is fine. erland wrote: 4. What's the most frustrating limitation with SBS/LMS playlist management today ? - That it doesn't support relative paths in playlist files which are scanned - That it's too hard to reorder tracks in existing playlists - That it's too hard to create completely new playlists - Something else Creating playlists using LMS just doesn't seem to be something it's designed to do -- in fact, haven't I read in early threads developers say that playlist management should be done outside LMS? Currently the most obvious wishlist feature is an easy-to-use smart list tool and an easy-to-use MusicIP/Pandora style playlist generator. erland wrote: 5. What kind of device would you like to use when modifying existing playlists ? - A computer - A tablet - A smart phone - A Logitech Controller, Radio or Touch display - A IR remote - Something else As above, computer, tablet, smart phone, Controller. For modifying the currently playing playlist, it sure would be nice to be able to do it easily from phone/tablet/controller, whichever you are using to play/control the music. erland wrote: 6. What kind of modifications do you usually do on already existing playlists ? - Reorder tracks in the playlist - Remove tracks, albums or artists from the playlist - Add new tracks, albums or artists to the playlist - Something else Don't currently do much of any, but if easy, all of the above would be important. erland wrote: Is there anything else than the above you feel is important to take into consideration if anyone would like to improve the playlist management ? As I wrote above, the biggest advance would be easy-to-use smart lists. this could be something as simple as iOS-style drop-down boxes with allowed fields. I'd love to see something like the script language J.River Media uses for its smart lists. Although it requires some sense of command line coding (and so probably violates easy-to-use) it allows you to some powerful stuff. I particularly like that you can generate playlists that have a certain percentage of songs satisfying a certain criterion. For example, you can make a playlist that is 50% rock Genre, 20% Blues Genre, 10% Reggae Genre, and 20% Classic Rock Genre. It also allows you to easily filter the generated playlists to remove duplicate songs, specify how many times a particular artist or album shows up, etc. Another suggestion, which probably isn't really about playlists, but is about playing playlists randomly. I actually don't want a truly random play, because I would rather not have the same artist played back-to-back. I know one of Erland's plug-ins allows to alter random so that the same artist isn't played until n songs have passed. That's a nice feature. wnshall's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5886 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94988 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] How do you want to create/manage playlists ?
Mnyb wrote: In general not tablet related I always wanted some specific function others may find weird ,Erland is free to ignore if this is to strange : Remove album, artist ,genre . Explanation if you added an album to a playlist and shuffled it and saved it for later use and you find that you for some reason did not really want that artist in this playlist what do you do if it s large playlist . This is a good idea. wnshall's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5886 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94988 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] How do you want to create/manage playlists ?
erland wrote: 1. What kind of device would you like to use when creating the playlists ? In order of preference: 1) A computer 2) A tablet 3) A smart phone erland wrote: 2. How do you decide what should be part of a playlist ? By selecting the individual tracks you want to include erland wrote: 3. How do you decide which order the tracks should have in the playlist ? Random ordered tracks or Drag and drop tracks to put them into the right order erland wrote: 4. What's the most frustrating limitation with SBS/LMS playlist management today ? That it's too hard to create completely new playlists erland wrote: 5. What kind of device would you like to use when modifying existing playlists ? In order of preference: 1) A computer 2) A tablet 3) A smart phone erland wrote: 6. What kind of modifications do you usually do on already existing playlists ? Add new tracks, albums or artists to the playlist erland wrote: Is there anything else than the above you feel is important to take into consideration if anyone would like to improve the playlist management ? elziko's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11835 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94988 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] How do you want to create/manage playlists ?
Hi Erland! First a brief description of my usage of music. My digital library consists of 3020 albums of 38,200 tracks. I don't collect or download individual tracks. I have 2 libraries of these, one FLAC files for SBS, the other M4a for my smartphone, managed by Itunes. I have added everyone of those albums from CD's ripped on my desktop PC using dbpoweramp. All my album artwork is 1000 x 1000 jpg files (where available), looks great ported to the TV! I also extensively tag my albums using the Genre Style tags. I don't download free music or purchase music online. I am also slowly digitizing an LP collection of 3,800 discs, though I don't expect to complete this in my lifetime. :-) I have a Touch and a Duet and these have revolutionized my listening life over the past 6 years or so. I am a heavy user of the SBS ecosystem, I work from home and would be streaming AND listening to squeezebox delivered, glorious sound, 6 - 14 hours of most days. This has resulted in a huge increase in listening pleasure due to ease of access to my music. For this reason alone I love my Squeezebox!! Now to the questions. 1/ I use the 1st 4 options only. I am a heavy user of the SBS ecosystem. - Desktop PC 50% of the time - Smartphone 20% of the time - Tablet 20% of the time - Duet Controller 10% of the time I foresee my tablet and smartphone usage increasing to probably 30 - 40% and the PC decreasing to 30 - 40% in the next year or so. 2/ I play only entire albums (in the order as recorded/released by the artists) 99% of the time. I am therefore very interested in more options regarding queueing, stacking, ordering of albums, NOT individual tracks. I would like to see something like Spicefly, etc. which queues albums by some form of mood, tempo, style fingerprinting, as opposed to tracks which are already well catered for. I know from talking to friends using SBS, Sonos and other platforms that a lot of people are album as opposed to track listeners and there is a lot of scope to improve the album listening experience. I use random play of albums 60% of the time because it's really the only easy option available and manualy select albums as the mood dictates the other 40% of the time. 3/ See 2/ 4/ Lack of album playing/queueing options as discussed in 2/. 5/ I use the first 4 options only, probably in percentages pretty close to the device percentages in 1/ and foresee doing so in the near future. 6/ I remove or add re-order abums in playlists. The biggest problem with SBS and the one that needs fixing FIRST is the prehistoric look and functionality of the front end. The inability to seamlessly scroll through entire libraries instead of laborious A-Z, page by page selections is ludicrous!! It also looks atrocious when ported to a LCD TV, which I like to do. This should have been updated years ago. I know Ipeng gets around this for smartphones/tablets, but there's still a lot of us out there using desktop/laptop PC's as well as smartphones/tablets and will be for a while. I know several people who have looked at my PC SBS front end and just laughed at it. A pity because everything else, the flexibilty and plethora of 3rd party app's, such as yours, still makes it the best digital music option by a wide margin ( I think). At least there is the excellent Muso browser to help with this (Moose is also very good, though a bit dated looking). Well that's my 2 penny's worth. Keep up the good work Erland, I really appreciate the use I get out of your apps I use them everyday in some form or other. The Icky Stick thingy sounds really interesting as well, looking forward to developments with interest!! Cheers..Bruce. kiwibrucie's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=31674 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94988 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] How do you want to create/manage playlists ?
1. What kind of device would you like to use when creating the playlists ? - A computer - A tablet - A smart phone - A Logitech Controller, Radio or Touch display - A IR remote - Something else My preference would be to use tablet/smart phone followed by the SB players themsleves and finally a computer, I'm looking for ease of use playlists over spending a long time creating and deciding what should be in it 2. How do you decide what should be part of a playlist ? - By selecting the individual tracks you want to include - By selecting the albums you want to include - By selecting the artists you want to include - By automatically selecting 100 tracks that matches some search criteria (genre, ratings, ...) - Something else I listen to 2 types of playlists 1) album playlists - mainly new music, in this case I'll add an album (either local or on spotify) and then queue up another one with 'add to end' 2) dynamic/smart playlists - I've got various playlists set up using erlands dynamic playlists based on 'top rated' and then the smartmix playlist, these are both heavily used for more casual listening with variations of decades, genre etc. 3. How do you decide which order the tracks should have in the playlist ? - Random ordered tracks - Random ordered albums - Drag and drop albums to put them into the right order - Drag and drop tracks to put them into the right order - Something else See above 4. What's the most frustrating limitation with SBS/LMS playlist management today ? - That it doesn't support relative paths in playlist files which are scanned - That it's too hard to reorder tracks in existing playlists - That it's too hard to create completely new playlists - Something else There is no native smart playlist from the web interface/phone controller, so for example when I loaded music into google music it created some auto playlists, whereas with SB i have had to set up various plugins/ratings/mixes although the results are good The web interface is very limited, it would be great if controllers had the ability to drag and drop or suggest tracks etc. 5. What kind of device would you like to use when modifying existing playlists ? - A computer - A tablet - A smart phone - A Logitech Controller, Radio or Touch display - A IR remote - Something else don't really use static playlists 6. What kind of modifications do you usually do on already existing playlists ? - Reorder tracks in the playlist - Remove tracks, albums or artists from the playlist - Add new tracks, albums or artists to the playlist - Something else see above Is there anything else than the above you feel is important to take into consideration if anyone would like to improve the playlist management ? socistep's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18860 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94988 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] How do you want to create/manage playlists ?
Mnyb wrote: In general not tablet related I always wanted some specific function others may find weird ,Erland is free to ignore if this is to strange : Remove album, artist ,genre . Explanation if you added an album to a playlist and shuffled it and saved it for later use and you find that you for some reason did not really want that artist in this playlist what do you do if it s large playlist . But maybe Erland is even more clever and have something in mind that can sort the playlist for manipulation that is not necessarily in playing order and you can mark multiple songs . Actually, I don't find that weird - this functionality is also something I've missed. Therefore, it's available in the extGUI4LMS (you can remove albums, artists, genre or marked songs from the current playlist in a single operation) Roland0's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=56808 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94988 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] How do you want to create/manage playlists ?
What I really would like is music ip like functionality integrated . MIP is a bit of hustle even if it performs better than smartmix , a separate server with its own separate scan ,and the files have to be separately fingerprinted on another abandoned app on another OS yuck . So MIP like function that has the ease of use as smartmix . What also is a hustle to apply musicbrain id to all tracks to have them properly recognised if you blow up your dB . So that statistic stays correct . Slightly OT. Now that we know that Erlands work on another platform/app , if it has similar functions as his suite of plugins it would be nice to have one common backup file for any extra information about the music collection that's not in the tags . And that the app would recognise the music anyhow if you recover from a disaster . I personally would not mind an unique identifier tag automagically planted in the files by the new app . Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94988 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] How do you want to create/manage playlists ?
Mnyb wrote: What I really would like is music ip like functionality integrated . MIP is a bit of hustle even if it performs better than smartmix , a separate server with its own separate scan ,and the files have to be separately fingerprinted on another abandoned app on another OS yuck . So MIP like function that has the ease of use as smartmix . What also is a hustle to apply musicbrain id to all tracks to have them properly recognised if you blow up your dB . So that statistic stays correct . Slightly OT. Now that we know that Erlands work on another platform/app , if it has similar functions as his suite of plugins it would be nice to have one common backup file for any extra information about the music collection that's not in the tags . And that the app would recognise the music anyhow if you recover from a disaster . I personally would not mind an unique identifier tag automagically planted in the files by the new app . Musicbrain ID is quite simple if you use Mediamonkey for tagging. There's a free add-on specifically for that :) (Windows-only though) bakker_be's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=30369 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94988 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] How do you want to create/manage playlists ?
bakker_be wrote: Musicbrain ID is quite simple if you use Mediamonkey for tagging. There's a free add-on specifically for that :) (Windows-only though) It is simple by other means to but an extra step for me as I tag in other apps , also the extra run in MIP GUI for each new album and the extra scan as MIP GUI does not run on my server . But mhergers smartmix is good enough for most of my cases as I don't listen to much local music . Me I think the time is rigth for an app that does it all , just plunk in files in any state and the app can smartly mix from them ;) Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94988 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] How do you want to create/manage playlists ?
Mnyb wrote: Slightly OT. Now that we know that Erlands work on another platform/app , if it has similar functions as his suite of plugins it would be nice to have one common backup file for any extra information about the music collection that's not in the tags . And that the app would recognise the music anyhow if you recover from a disaster . I personally would not mind an unique identifier tag automagically planted in the files by the new app . For ickStream related features people want to see, I would appreciate if you use the pre-announcement thread so we can avoid having too many threads for us to monitor at this stage: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?98467-Pre-Announcement-ickStream-Music-Platform erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94988 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] How do you want to create/manage playlists ?
erland wrote: To anyone that currently uses static playlists: 1. How many static playlists do you have for your library ? 2. Is a static playlist typically something you make, use for a single event/party and deletes afterwards ? 3. Is a static playlist typically something you make once and never change afterwards ? 4. Can you give some examples of static playlists which you currently have and use continuously ? (name + when you use them) 1. 19, all generated by MIP based on specific 'seed tracks', lightly edited by removing an occasional track, 50 tracks long. 2. No 3. Yes 4. Walking In The Air playlist, generated by MIP from Walking in the Air from Forest CD by George Winston. My wife likes this as background music for drawing. Other similarly used playlists are Faure - Pavane, Adagios and Gwenlaise. Like bakker_be says, bakker_be wrote: I'm a very happy user of MusicIP through Spicefly Sugarcube, which perfectly covers normal listening and bakker_be wrote: When I'm doing serious listening, I always pick specific albums and the add to end-function, mainly using my tablet or the GUI. If I am in my study (Boom) I usually have the GUI open on the SugarCube Live View and occasionally add one or more tracks from the list of MIP Track Recommendations. I very rarely listen to Internet streams. Serious listening is in the lounge room (Touch, NAD amp and K-Horns) and tablet as controller. My wife has a small amp and speakers in her studio, connected to the Tape Out on the NAD amp. Wirrunna's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3225 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94988 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] How do you want to create/manage playlists ?
I don't save any static playlists at all. I'm a very happy user of MusicIP through Spicefly Sugarcube, which perfectly covers normal listening. I've tried the new Smartmix plugin, but to me the results are a bit too monotonous, in that Sugarcube isn't as strict in clinging to a specific genre. The additional function Play this album is sufficient for me if some particular track in the continuous mix catches my fancy. When I'm doing serious listening, I always pick specific albums and the add to end-function, mainly using my tablet, only very rarely the web interface, and I never touch the Touch ;) I've never even used the bundled remote, relying instead on my Harmony 525. bakker_be's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=30369 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94988 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] How do you want to create/manage playlists ?
I don't use playlists. I'm an album listener. And I'm lazy. I leave it up to other powers to create the mixes for me (radio, random play, MusicIP, Smart Mix). -- Michael ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] How do you want to create/manage playlists ?
Itunes and use the playlists from there... SimonG156's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94988 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] How do you want to create/manage playlists ?
I'll lift this thread up again as it's relevant to something I'm working on and I really want to understand better how people work with playlist, so if you didn't answer this thread the first time please answer it now and if your behavior/need has changed since your last post in this thread please post an update. I'm mainly tying to figure out if there is a need to manage playlists from a tablet and in that case what kind of functionality would be needed. erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94988 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] How do you want to create/manage playlists ?
What have changed since last time , smartmix . On the tablet The functionality that the playlist manager plugin has is a big help , but you you can't see the playlist or controll where in the list the file is added . Add and rearrange would be good . In general not tablet related I always wanted some specific function others may find weird ,Erland is free to ignore if this is to strange : Remove album, artist ,genre . Explanation if you added an album to a playlist and shuffled it and saved it for later use and you find that you for some reason did not really want that artist in this playlist what do you do if it s large playlist . But maybe Erland is even more clever and have something in mind that can sort the playlist for manipulation that is not necessarily in playing order and you can mark multiple songs . Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94988 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] How do you want to create/manage playlists ?
Mnyb wrote: What have changed since last time , smartmix . On the tablet The functionality that the playlist manager plugin has is a big help , but you you can't see the playlist or controll where in the list the file is added . Add and rearrange would be good . In general not tablet related I always wanted some specific function others may find weird ,Erland is free to ignore if this is to strange : Remove album, artist ,genre . Explanation if you added an album to a playlist and shuffled it and saved it for later use and you find that you for some reason did not really want that artist in this playlist what do you do if it s large playlist . But maybe Erland is even more clever and have something in mind that can sort the playlist for manipulation that is not necessarily in playing order and you can mark multiple songs . How about some sort of tag cloud pane at the bottom, listing artist and album and maybe other tags, click on the a tag and get options to delete everything with that particular tag. Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD jimbobvfr400's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=56857 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94988 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] How do you want to create/manage playlists ?
At the moment I use iPeng on a touch and MIP, unless I want to listen to something specific. What I'd like to be able to do is use a tablet (when I get one). I'd like to have the playlist on one side and be able to search for tracks and drag and drop them into the playlist. I'd also like to be able to add a few tracks chosen by MIP based on the currently playing track. I guess this isn't really what you mean by making a playlist, but it's how I'd like to be able to control my music. Neil NeilT's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=24306 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94988 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] How do you want to create/manage playlists ?
I downloaded MIP when I first got into SBs and really liked where it was heading. I'm saddened it wasn't further developed, and really wish someone would resurrect the concept and make it integral to the SB experience. Right now I don't have the patience to create static playlists that fit a certain mood, which is why a replacement for MIP would be valuable to me. Sometimes when I'm listening to one of my random playlists, a track comes up that makes me want to add a few more like it to the queue without erasing the playlist. I wish there was a way to insert a group of say 5 or 10 randomly generated songs based on year, genre, artist, etc., then continue on with the playlist. Lastly, I'm surprised at the number of people in this thread choosing computer over tablet. I'm seeing more and more non-techies like me ditching their laptops over smartphones and tablets. I know for me I groan whenever I have to open up the old laptop to do anything...90% of my casual computer time is now spent with my iPad. Pippen is doing a great job expanding the capabilities of iPeng, such that I am relying less on LMS's browser interface. GeeJay's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11388 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94988 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] How do you want to create/manage playlists ?
1. What kind of device would you like to use when creating the playlists ? Computer or tablet 2. How do you decide what should be part of a playlist ? - By selecting the individual tracks you want to include - By automatically selecting 100 tracks that matches some search criteria (genre, ratings, ...) 3. How do you decide which order the tracks should have in the playlist ? - Random ordered tracks - Drag and drop tracks to put them into the right order 4. What's the most frustrating limitation with SBS/LMS playlist management today ? - That it's too hard to reorder tracks in existing playlists - It's to hard to delete tracks from existing playlists - There is no native smartlist or genius capability, a core feature of *any music software today* 5. What kind of device would you like to use when modifying existing playlists ? - A computer - A tablet 6. What kind of modifications do you usually do on already existing playlists ? - Reorder tracks in the playlist - Remove tracks, albums or artists from the playlist - Add new tracks, albums or artists to the playlist All of the above. erland wrote: To anyone that currently uses static playlists: 1. How many static playlists do you have for your library ? 2. Is a static playlist typically something you make, use for a single event/party and deletes afterwards ? 3. Is a static playlist typically something you make once and never change afterwards ? 4. Can you give some examples of static playlists which you currently have and use continuously ? (name + when you use them) I don't really use any truly static playlists. I use J. River Media Center to generate, update, and export a number of smartlists which I use in conjunction with SQL Playlists/Dynamic playlists for certain kinds of mixes. Some examples: Fast songs/slow songs (based on BPM intensity), songs we both like (based on a custom tag and ratings), recently imported, instrumentals. I also have several hand-picked but evolving playlists that I am always adding to. For example: Harmonica songs (since I am learning harmonica), Pool party, bedroom music, wake-up songs. For the most part Philip Meyer's Playlist Manager plugin works well for adding to these, but I wish it had the ability to automatically reject duplicates and a function to remove songs from a playlist since sometimes I fat finger and accidentally put something in the wrong list--then I have to go on the computer to fix the mistake. MeSue's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=985 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94988 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] How do you want to create/manage playlists ?
Sue is rigth . Smart playlist is dearly missing as core feature . I use the dead and buggy MIP in conjunction with sugercube it works sort off after a great deal of fuzzing around with stuff that would turn away 99.98% off end users, an official MIP replacement is needed. And it should be a core feature . An optional idea would be if such smart list function could have a setting to also include tracks from your configured services in the playlist at a rate you choose, you seed a track that builds a list from you own files but you have a setting to include for example 25% tracks from spotify that are similar but don't exist in your own library :) Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94988 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] How do you want to create/manage playlists ?
I use the iTunes plugin so my iTunes playlists are available on my SB's. This works great but the feature I'm missing is to be able to add songs to a playlist from iPeng or SqueezePad. I don't want to use a computer for that. While I'm listening to music I don't use a computer (too big an chunky) but I find myself using my iPad a lot. Using mostly SqueezePad on the iPad, I usually lookup the artist, read biography or other artist related info. Obviously, it wouldn't make any sense to add songs to the playlists managed by iTunes but it would make sense to have LMS create, edit, add and remove songs from its own set of playlists. From SqueezePad or iPeng, long pressing a song or album, pops up a menu. There I would like to be able to add the selected song to a playlist (non iTunes playlist) of my choise. If the playlist doesn't exists then I want to be able to create it. Nothing fancy, just something very simple. Pascal Hibon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7969 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94988 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] How do you want to create/manage playlists ?
erland wrote: This sounds kind of similar to the issues Spicefly Voyager plugin was designed to solve: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?95212-Announce-Spicefly-Voyager-%28Take-Playlists-on-the-move%29 Might be worth to take a look at it. Hmm I don't think it will work, since the actual file structure on my RAID array is root/data/userid/media/music and on my laptop with Windows 7 C:\Users\Mark_Cathcart\Music and in the car it would be different again. I guess I could write editor macros called laptop, car_sd, car_hd etc. to post process. I guess what I was thinking of in my head was creating profile driven playlists. ie somewhere on a SB, either on a SB Touch which has an SD slot(can it write on read only?) or on the LMS, to select a playlist and choose export to profile either laptop, car_sd, car_hd etc. But thinking about it, to export to the laptop it would have to be laptop initiated, ie copy from the file server and change the path. cathcam's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=43414 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94988 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] How do you want to create/manage playlists ?
1. What kind of device would you like to use when creating the playlists ? - A computer - A tablet - A smart phone - A Logitech Controller, Radio or Touch display - A IR remote - Something else I own a Radio, Touch, Boom and use SqueezePlay, I also have an Android controller app on a 7-inch tablet. I've not found any of these conducive to creating long playlists from a large music selection. In fact, I find the differences in UI between the touch, boom and radio, when you can/can't get to the playlist etc difficult to use playlists at all, and so I have not. Also, since I moved music from a PC to a RAID array at the sametime I seriously started using the LMS, all my old playlists were rendered useless as they had PC based absolute file locations ie C: and D: etc. - Yes I know I could have edited them, but I also reorganized my folder structure when moving. So, I find my way here because I want to start creating playlists again that are based on a collection of tracks from different genres, bpm etc. I have 3x laptops, the main one used for music has a Dell Inspiron 17inch touch screen and is actually my media center, however, it is Windows 7 based and as of today wouldn't be that useful, even though it does support touch screen, it would be difficult to rapidly assemble a playlist from folders etc. So, I guess my current choice would be traditional Windows 7 laptop with a mouse. 2. How do you decide what should be part of a playlist ? - By selecting the individual tracks you want to include - By selecting the albums you want to include - By selecting the artists you want to include - By automatically selecting 100 tracks that matches some search criteria (genre, ratings, ...) - Something else Probably individual tracks, buy having tracks presented based on type/genre might be useful, BPM or somesuch would be more useful than human tagging. I'd then edit, re-organize and save. 3. How do you decide which order the tracks should have in the playlist ? - Random ordered tracks - Random ordered albums - Drag and drop albums to put them into the right order - Drag and drop tracks to put them into the right order - Something else I'd like to drag and drop, then maybe randomize and finally move into a specific order. ie to start the playlist I'd like to just drag and drop them into a playlist, so if I picked 3 tracks from a single album that would be one drag and drop; then if I wanted to split up the 3x tracks and mix them amongst all the others in the playlist, randomize; finally I'd want to tweak the playlist by dragging and dropping within the playlist. 4. What's the most frustrating limitation with SBS/LMS playlist management today ? - That it doesn't support relative paths in playlist files which are scanned - That it's too hard to reorder tracks in existing playlists - That it's too hard to create completely new playlists - Something else All the above. I regularly find myself trying to create a playlist on the radio, getting 4-5 tracks into it and then managing to delete/overwrite it somehow. 5. What kind of device would you like to use when modifying existing playlists ? - A computer - A tablet - A smart phone - A Logitech Controller, Radio or Touch display - A IR remote - Something else I'd like to be able to tweak the playlist using either a Logitech player or a laptop. 6. What kind of modifications do you usually do on already existing playlists ? - Reorder tracks in the playlist - Remove tracks, albums or artists from the playlist - Add new tracks, albums or artists to the playlist - Something else I think mostly remove tracks. When I've put 30/50/100 tracks in a playlist I'm not 100% sure of all the tracks, so I play the playlist and then would like to remove the tracks I don't like. Is there anything else than the above you feel is important to take into consideration if anyone would like to improve the playlist management ? I must admit, if the LMS server UI had somelike the dropbox web ui where I could drag from Windows folders onto the UI, one or more than one track and then reorder, randomize and save using the LMS server UI, that would be great. One thing that I'd really, really, really like is top take a playlist on the LMS Server, and be able to export the playlist and tracks to an SD card, harddrive etc. and have the playlist work because it uses relative pathnames. In my case I have some 6,500 MP3 files, my media PC has an SD card slot and USB drives, my car audio system also has an SD card slot, and a USB hard drive port, I'd love to be able to export a playlist and the tracks, and just plug-into the car and play... Much of my music is acquired using the laptop I'm on now. It goes pretty much everywhere with me, so for example, I just bought an MP3 album from amazon. I'd like to be able to copy that folder over to my home music collection with a playlist that starts in album order and can have tracks re-ordered, or removed as needed on the laptop and later on via the
Re: [slim] How do you want to create/manage playlists ?
cathcam wrote: One thing that I'd really, really, really like is top take a playlist on the LMS Server, and be able to export the playlist and tracks to an SD card, harddrive etc. and have the playlist work because it uses relative pathnames. In my case I have some 6,500 MP3 files, my media PC has an SD card slot and USB drives, my car audio system also has an SD card slot, and a USB hard drive port, I'd love to be able to export a playlist and the tracks, and just plug-into the car and play... This sounds kind of similar to the issues Spicefly Voyager plugin was designed to solve: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?95212-Announce-Spicefly-Voyager-%28Take-Playlists-on-the-move%29 Might be worth to take a look at it. erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94988 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] How do you want to create/manage playlists ?
Hi Erland, some thoughts as requested. :-) 1. What kind of device would you like to use when creating the playlists ? - A computer - A tablet - A smart phone - A Logitech Controller, Radio or Touch display - A IR remote - Something else 90% of the time a computer, 10% an Ipeng controlled iphone/itouch remote - normally when entertaining/partying. 2. How do you decide what should be part of a playlist ? - By selecting the individual tracks you want to include - By selecting the albums you want to include - By selecting the artists you want to include - By automatically selecting 100 tracks that matches some search criteria (genre, ratings, ...) - Something else If it's for my personal listening I listen 95% of the time to albums - my album playlists are generated by 3 main criteria. 1/Artist 2/Genre 3/ Decades. I generally run these choices through custom browse in random mode and add albums on the fly as i feel the need. If I'm running party play lists of songs when entertaining etc. I let the guests add song selections to pre-manufactured playlists on one of my itouch remotes using Ipeng, works great! 3. How do you decide which order the tracks should have in the playlist ? - Random ordered tracks - Random ordered albums - Drag and drop albums to put them into the right order - Drag and drop tracks to put them into the right order - Something else As above 4. What's the most frustrating limitation with SBS/LMS playlist management today ? - That it doesn't support relative paths in playlist files which are scanned - That it's too hard to reorder tracks in existing playlists - That it's too hard to create completely new playlists - Something else I would definitely think, the too hard option. It is not very intuitive or easy for the average person to create or use the menu/playlists in the Squeezebox universe compared to a lot of the alternatives out there. Simplification would encourage increased use judging by feedback I hear from other people I know using SMS. Casual users of my system definitely don't get there head around it to easily. 5. What kind of device would you like to use when modifying existing playlists ? - A computer - A tablet - A smart phone - A Logitech Controller, Radio or Touch display - A IR remote - Something else 90% of the time a computer, 10% an Ipeng controlled iphone/itouch remote - normally when entertaining/partying. 6. What kind of modifications do you usually do on already existing playlists ? - Reorder tracks in the playlist - Remove tracks, albums or artists from the playlist - Add new tracks, albums or artists to the playlist - Something else I hardly ever re-order tracks. I add new albums to a currently running playlist all the time. I find the ability to introduce an album immediately into the queue after the currently playing track using play next a real winning feature of your Custom Browse plug-in. 7/ Is there anything else than the above you feel is important to take into consideration if anyone would like to improve the playlist management ? For me the biggest deal breaker is the PC web interface. I can't stand the inability to search my WHOLE database in a continuous flow. The way you have to scroll and select alphanumerical blocks of albums/artists and then WAIT for your selection drives me up the wall! At least remote operation with Ipeng allows this. (The first comment I usually get from casual observers when I'm using the SB web interface on my PC is invariably along the lines of what a clunky/ugly program!) Itunes may be chronically limited in it's flexibilty of selection regarding playlists, etc. but it kicks SBS's arse when it comes to seamless ease of use and an intuitive eco-system on the PC. Regarding your plug-ins, there is one feature I feel that would greatly add to the value of play list creation. That is the abilty to create playlists/menus using style id tag info. All my database has been ripped and tagged with extensive style tag info on music types, moods, years, nationalities, sex's, styles etc. Most of my friends databases are the same and as a lot of this info is automatically provided by dbpoweramp, foobar and numerous other tagger/rippers it seems a shame not to be able to use it EASILY with SBS. It would be good to have it as an option for playlist/menu creation in one of plug-in's .. what do you think? Cheers ... Bruce. kiwibrucie's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=31674 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94988 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] How do you want to create/manage playlists ?
erland wrote: To anyone that currently uses static playlists: 1. How many static playlists do you have for your library ? 2. Is a static playlist typically something you make, use for a single event/party and deletes afterwards ? 3. Is a static playlist typically something you make once and never change afterwards ? 4. Can you give some examples of static playlists which you currently have and use continuously ? (name + when you use them) 1. To date I have about 80 playlists. I made nearly all of them on a computer (I use J. River Media Jukebox). 2. I create them for several reasons, including social events/parties, but also for my own personal use (and family members). Some get played quite often, others only rarely. But I don't delete them. 3. Some are truly static, having become familiar enough to be like extended albums in their own right. These tend to be the shorter ones (perhaps 15 - 30 tracks), and are reminiscent of mix tapes. Others do get modified at times by having some new material added, but that's not real common. More likely, if I want to add new stuff, I'll end up splitting a playlist or creating a whole new one. 4. Usually my playlists are mood- or genre-specific, or possibly seasonal. I give 'em names that are either directly descriptive (e.g. Christmas Favorites or Mostly Mozart) or that will serve as mnemonics for me (and family) to indicate what kind of music they contain. Some names: Mellow Moods, Jumpin' Hoppin', Piano Bar Flies, Country When It Rocks, Guitar Goodies, etc. We'll put playlists on if we have people over, and often put on a long-running one (150 - 250 tracks) all day on Saturday or Sunday, in sync on players all around the house, to listen to through the weekend housework/projects/chores/whatever. A few of the playlists (such as one called Working Sunday) were put together using the SB Controller, on a sort of spur-of-the-moment, by tacking a bunch of albums together and then randomizing the list, but usually I'm more methodical, and prefer to choose individual tracks with care, geared toward a very specific mix. A mix of 100 - 150 tracks might take me an hour to put together, and I might tinker with it a bit the first time I listen through it, but after that they usually remain static. Overall, these days, we probably use playlists for about 20% of our listening. (The rest is perhaps 70% albums, 5% ad hoc random mixes, and 5% Internet, mainly Pandora and XM.) Dogberry2's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18883 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94988 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] How do you want to create/manage playlists ?
erland wrote: Well, you can't get everything :-) If you had to prioritize and select one or two items per point, what would it be ? :-/ but I actually want it all + even more stuff . Design by committee is bit hopeless I know Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94988 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] How do you want to create/manage playlists ?
erland wrote: Just to make sure I understand you. Are you saying that you create multiple playlist files ? Or are you saying that you duplicate and rename music files so you have multiple copies of the same file in different folders in the music folder ? My library contains just one copy of the actual .flac files for each performance. For a number of my CDs, my playlist folder has one static playlist for that particular CD. The playlist folder also has a number of different 'my evening concert' playlists that each list several pieces from different CDs. For example: A CD has the cellist Rostropovitch playing a Schubert sonata with that has three movements, a short collection of five one-movement pieces by Schumann called Five Pieces in a Folk Tone Op. 102, and a Debussy Cello Sonata with three movements. There are 11 tracks on the CD, corresponding to the individual movements of the pieces. When I rip it, I get 11 .flac files, one for each movement. The first three tracks are the Schubert Sonata and I put these three .flac files in a folder called 'Schubert - D.821 Sonata - Rostropovich and put this folder in my library tree under Schubert Sonatas D.821. There may already be other folders there of the same piece but by a different performer. Then I put the next five tracks in a separate folder called Schumann - Op. 102 Five Pieces - Rostropovich and store this folder under Schumann Chamber Music Duets Op. 102, which may have sub-folders with other performances of the Five Pieces too. Finally I put the last three tracks into a separate folder called Debussy - Cello Sonata - Rostropovich and file this under French Debussy. When I want to listen, I almost always think of which pieces by which composers played by which performers I want to hear, and not which individual tracks. So I browse my music folder down to those sub-folders that contain the particular performances and add these folders to a playlist. I may want an evening of different Schubert Sonatas by different performers, or an evening of the Florestan Trio playing piano trios by various composers. But if I especially like the original CD, I will make a static playlist that reproduces the CD with the same pieces in the same order they were in on the CD. In my example above, I would make a static playlist that includes the Schubert sonata by Rostropovich, the Five Pieces by Schumann with Rostropovich, and the Debussy Cello Sonata by Rostropovich and save the playlist, so that whenever I want to hear that CD, I just use the playlist. Hope that clarifies -- Swimmer Swimmerbird123's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17285 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94988 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] How do you want to create/manage playlists ?
Mnyb wrote: Actually all of the ideas expressed in point 1-6 . Well, you can't get everything :-) If you had to prioritize and select one or two items per point, what would it be ? erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94988 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] How do you want to create/manage playlists ?
Erland, this is awesome. for years i haven't used playlists b/c no one makes an app that makes playlists the way i want. the closest thing for me is smartviews in winamp, but thats not perfect or suited really for specific purposes or occassions. smartviews are more of a library manager. as a former radio dj, i have long fantasized over what a perfect playlist app would be. erland wrote: Since the playlist management in SBS/LMS is a bit limited and most people seems to use external software to manage their playlist it feels like there is a need for something better in SBS/LMS. So, some questions to people that use saved playlists and would like to be easier. Try to think about how you like it to work instead of how it works today. 1. What kind of device would you like to use when creating the playlists ? - A computer - A tablet - A smart phone - A Logitech Controller, Radio or Touch display - A IR remote - Something else i'd use a computer. erland wrote: 2. How do you decide what should be part of a playlist ? - By selecting the individual tracks you want to include - By selecting the albums you want to include - By selecting the artists you want to include - By automatically selecting 100 tracks that matches some search criteria (genre, ratings, ...) - Something else i think the app would need to scan the music to catalog it for manipulation. this assumes a user already has good tags. smartviews let me use criteria. what i would want is basically a graph paper like grid, kinda like a spread sheet. on the left would be album artists, then indented just a tad would be album names, then indented just a tad more would be track titles. so like this: Beatles _Help __Ticket to ride __Yesterday _Abbey Road __Here comes the Sun Cars _Candy O __Dangerous Type and so on... then, on the right would be a series of columns, with empty checkboxes. one column per named playlist. so if u have 11 columns, u have 11 playlists. then, if u put a check in the songtitle row for that column, the playlist is automatically rewritten to include it, and vice versa. if you put it on the album row, all the titles on the album are included. and on the albumartists row, all the titles on all albums are included. also, a special column should exist that if you checked the row in that column, it adds that to ALL playlists. in addition, on a per column basis, i should then be able to specify whatever criteria. so i could say any new music in this file path or subfolder should automatically be checked or any new music with this genre should automatically be checked etc. each column would have its own unique color and the playlist names would be listed in a fixed row at the top (like in excel, so u can see em even when scrolling) where they bend kind of, like at an angle, think 2 o'clock, to read. erland wrote: 3. How do you decide which order the tracks should have in the playlist ? - Random ordered tracks - Random ordered albums - Drag and drop albums to put them into the right order - Drag and drop tracks to put them into the right order - Something else this is not important to me as i would simply load and then randomize my playlists. however, if people wanted to play things in a strict order, then an option in this playlist creating app would be to not overwrite the order the playlist is in. that way, i could use this proposed app to create and select the songs, load them into winamp in AA, album, track # order, rearrange them in winamp, save in winamp, and then the proposed app would respect that ordering, but still allow to add or remove items. erland wrote: 4. What's the most frustrating limitation with SBS/LMS playlist management today ? - That it doesn't support relative paths in playlist files which are scanned - That it's too hard to reorder tracks in existing playlists - That it's too hard to create completely new playlists - Something else i almost always use the SBS random mix functions. anything else with server is a joke. erland wrote: 5. What kind of device would you like to use when modifying existing playlists ? - A computer - A tablet - A smart phone - A Logitech Controller, Radio or Touch display - A IR remote - Something else same computer. erland wrote: 6. What kind of modifications do you usually do on already existing playlists ? - Reorder tracks in the playlist - Remove tracks, albums or artists from the playlist - Add new tracks, albums or artists to the playlist - Something else Is there anything else than the above you feel is important to take into consideration if anyone would like to improve the playlist management ? to me, its all about adding or deleting tracks from a playlist, and or automating a playlist. i can envision columns where a playlist is made based on last access date, or rating, or combos of criterias, like smartviews, but its just automatically done. a user should be able to dictate if
Re: [slim] How do you want to create/manage playlists ?
MrSinatra wrote: my guess is u are trying to do something inside server, like a plugin. i would suggest your efforts would be a lot more useful if done OUTSIDE of server, and besides, server could just read the apps output dir. meanwhile, users of other apps could benefit! Aren't there already other external applications that handles this well already ? The reason I started this thread was to investigate what would be needed to make something that works good for Squeezebox. I don't really use static playlists myself much, so I need information from people that actually use them to better understand the needs. Personally I mostly use smart playlists (through SQL Playlist/Dynamic Playlist) as I like to focus on listening to music rather than spending the time maintaining playlists, but I could see scenarios, like parties or special events, where the exact tracks and order of them could be important and due to this static playlists would be needed. Still, I'm skeptical if it's possible to implement it as a plugin as I think it requires a rich user interface to really work and I'm not sure the SBS/LMS web interface is suitable for this kind of usage. erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94988 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] How do you want to create/manage playlists ?
erland wrote: Aren't there already other external applications that handles this well already ? i have not seen anything close to what i describe. erland wrote: The reason I started this thread was to investigate what would be needed to make something that works good for Squeezebox. I don't really use static playlists myself much, so I need information from people that actually use them to better understand the needs. Personally I mostly use smart playlists (through SQL Playlist/Dynamic Playlist) as I like to focus on listening to music rather than spending the time maintaining playlists, but I could see scenarios, like parties or special events, where the exact tracks and order of them could be important and due to this static playlists would be needed. Still, I'm skeptical if it's possible to implement it as a plugin as I think it requires a rich user interface to really work and I'm not sure the SBS/LMS web interface is suitable for this kind of usage. i think the server UI sucks for just about anything. but my point was that if you are going to do something, do something that could work for any app, not just server. thats far more useful. to me playlists are mainly about what is or is not in them. order is a secondary concern, since any decent app can randomize a playlist. if a static order needs to be maintained, a proposed app should respect that, but leave that setting of the order to other apps to do, just respect it when done. MrSinatra's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2336 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94988 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] How do you want to create/manage playlists ?
To anyone that currently uses static playlists: 1. How many static playlists do you have for your library ? 2. Is a static playlist typically something you make, use for a single event/party and deletes afterwards ? 3. Is a static playlist typically something you make once and never change afterwards ? 4. Can you give some examples of static playlists which you currently have and use continuously ? (name + when you use them) erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94988 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] How do you want to create/manage playlists ?
MrSinatra wrote: i think the server UI sucks for just about anything. but my point was that if you are going to do something, do something that could work for any app, not just server. thats far more useful. Wouldn't it just be a matter of using the m3u file which a SBS/LMS plugin/app produces ? Or am I missing something ? erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94988 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] How do you want to create/manage playlists ?
erland wrote: Wouldn't it just be a matter of using the m3u file which a SBS/LMS plugin/app produces ? Or am I missing something ? i don't think what i proposed could be done in server, nor do i think people who don't use server want to install it just to use such an app. sometimes folks here need to remember, most people don't own squeeze anything. i think an app like this does not need to be tied to server. MrSinatra's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2336 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94988 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] How do you want to create/manage playlists ?
MrSinatra wrote: i think an app like this does not need to be tied to server. Completely agree, but it needs to be tied to some kind of media manager which can provide lists of available tracks, albums and artists. If you don't tie it to a media manager you will have to implement a scanner yourself in the app. Implementing an internal scanner is certainly one way to do it, I just fear that it will result in a lot more work than basing it on a media manager that exists already. UPnP media managers is certainly a solution but their issue is that there seems to be a lot of incompatibilities between different UPnP media servers so you can't really be sure it works with all just because you have tested it with one specific. My personal intention, if I would do something, would be to try to improve the situation for people that like to use Squeezebox devices, there are plenty of other developers and forums in the world that focus on non Squeezebox users, so let's focus on the users that want to use Squeezeboxes in this forum. However, at the moment, I'm more interested in what the actual needs are instead of discussing if it's suitable to develop as a plugin or not. After we know the needs, it's possible to decide exactly how it's best to implement it. erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94988 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] How do you want to create/manage playlists ?
erland wrote: Completely agree, but it needs to be tied to some kind of media manager which can provide lists of available tracks, albums and artists. If you don't tie it to a media manager you will have to implement a scanner yourself in the app. Implementing an internal scanner is certainly one way to do it, I just fear that it will result in a lot more work than basing it on a media manager that exists already. UPnP media managers is certainly a solution but their issue is that there seems to be a lot of incompatibilities between different UPnP media servers so you can't really be sure it works with all just because you have tested it with one specific. My personal intention, if I would do something, would be to try to improve the situation for people that like to use Squeezebox devices, there are plenty of other developers and forums in the world that focus on non Squeezebox users, so let's focus on the users that want to use Squeezeboxes in this forum. However, at the moment, I'm more interested in what the actual needs are instead of discussing if it's suitable to develop as a plugin or not. After we know the needs, it's possible to decide exactly how it's best to implement it. well just to be clear, what i proposed COULD be used by server, as its output dir could be scanned by server, (since you can tell server where to look for playlists). so, i guess i don't know why its better to do in server? i don't think anything good can be done in server. i don't know what u mean when u say upnp media managers but i would suggest a simple scanner that works off whatever tags it finds, one file per row. i think i laid out what i'm looking for pretty extensively, so those are my needs. i hope thats useful to you. MrSinatra's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2336 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94988 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] How do you want to create/manage playlists ?
MrSinatra wrote: i think i laid out what i'm looking for pretty extensively, so those are my needs. i hope thats useful to you. It definitely is, your comments are appreciated. erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94988 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] How do you want to create/manage playlists ?
I would like a button/icon that is more robust the the current add to favorite. When a song is playing you can select the ICON and you would get a list of your current playlists and and a new option in case you want a new list. vs27's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41655 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94988 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] How do you want to create/manage playlists ?
erland wrote: To anyone that currently uses static playlists: 1. How many static playlists do you have for your library ? 2. Is a static playlist typically something you make, use for a single event/party and deletes afterwards ? 3. Is a static playlist typically something you make once and never change afterwards ? 4. Can you give some examples of static playlists which you currently have and use continuously ? (name + when you use them) 1. Probably around 50. Almost all of them were initially created with MIP or SQL/Dynamic Playlists, then lightly edited (remove the inevitable tracks that don't fit, maybe change the ordering a little), and saved. 2. I usually make them for a party or event, but don't delete them afterwards. There are only a few that I've played a 2nd or 3rd time (or more), but I'm a pack-rat so I don't delete them. 3. It is rare for me to go back and change a playlist. 4. Just one example that I made a few weeks ago and then replayed last night when we had some people over for dinner on the deck outside. It was a MIP-generated list that used Soukoura (Ali Farka Touré and Ry Cooder) as the seed track. If I think about I'll post the playlist later when I'm home. Would mostly use as background music when entertaining. aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94988 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] How do you want to create/manage playlists ?
erland wrote: Since the playlist management in SBS/LMS is a bit limited and most people seems to use external software to manage their playlist it feels like there is a need for something better in SBS/LMS. So, some questions to people that use saved playlists and would like to be easier. Try to think about how you like it to work instead of how it works today. 1. What kind of device would you like to use when creating the playlists ? 2. How do you decide what should be part of a playlist ? 3. How do you decide which order the tracks should have in the playlist ? 4. What's the most frustrating limitation with SBS/LMS playlist management today ? 5. What kind of device would you like to use when modifying existing playlists ? 6. What kind of modifications do you usually do on already existing playlists ? 1. Any of those listed are fine, but a computer or tablet would be preferred. 2. Automatically select 100 tracks that match some criteria, including something like MIP's/Spicefly Sugar Cube's music-type (ie, something more musical than user-supplied genres, ratings, last-played, etc). And it has to be easy to edit after the initial playlist is generated. 3. Initially as generated by MIP/Spicefly - like program (or even not nearly as good, such as Apple Genius), then drag-and-drop tracks to re-order 4. That it's too hard to reorder tracks in existing playlists 5. Computer, tablet, or smartphone 6. All of the above. The most important is removing tracks, followed by reordering and adding. aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94988 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] How do you want to create/manage playlists ?
erland wrote: To anyone that currently uses static playlists: 1. How many static playlists do you have for your library ? 2. Is a static playlist typically something you make, use for a single event/party and deletes afterwards ? 3. Is a static playlist typically something you make once and never change afterwards ? 4. Can you give some examples of static playlists which you currently have and use continuously ? (name + when you use them) I have over a hundred static playlists in my library. I listen mostly to classical music. When I rip music, I 'dismantle' the CD contents and store each piece in a separate folder that contains all the movements for that piece played by that performer. I then store these folders sorted first by composer, then by type of piece [sonatas, concertos, symphonies, etc], then by specific piece, finally by specific performance. Some folders have multiple subfolders [an opera with each act] some have 30 or more tracks, some have only one track. Thus when I use the Squeezebox, I never select individual tracks but only folders. For my favorite CDs, I sometimes create a static playlist that 're-assembles' the CD by including all the pieces from the CD in their original order. Most of my static playlists are of this sort, and I never change them. But sometimes I assemble a 'concert' for an evening by including the performances I want in the order I want, and this becomes a static playlist. Some of these I keep for long periods, some only for a few months, some get changed occcasionally by adding new pieces or including a different performer. Swimmer Swimmerbird123's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17285 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94988 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] How do you want to create/manage playlists ?
Swimmerbird123 wrote: I have over a hundred static playlists in my library. I listen mostly to classical music. When I rip music, I 'dismantle' the CD contents and store each piece in a separate folder that contains all the movements for that piece played by that performer. I then store these folders sorted first by composer, then by type of piece [sonatas, concertos, symphonies, etc], then by specific piece, finally by specific performance. Some folders have multiple subfolders [an opera with each act] some have 30 or more tracks, some have only one track. Thus when I use the Squeezebox, I never select individual tracks but only folders. You to make sure I understand you. Are you saying that you create multiple playlist files ? Or are you saying that you duplicate and rename music files so you have multiple copies of the same file in different folders in the music folder ? erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94988 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] How do you want to create/manage playlists ?
erland wrote: Since the playlist management in SBS/LMS is a bit limited and most people seems to use external software to manage their playlist it feels like there is a need for something better in SBS/LMS. Is there anything else than the above you feel is important to take into consideration if anyone would like to improve the playlist management ? Hi Erland - I do use static playlists but I don't listen to them much anymore since I discovered your Dynamic and SQL Playlist plugins (and when I do play them I play them with the Dynamic Plugin). They've changed how I listen to my music. What would make Dynamic Playlists unbeatable would be if I could do an add to a DP that I had currently playing. Let's say that I had searched for and was dynamically playing say The Who but then that gave me the urge for say Led Zep. I'd like to be able to search and optionally add to (not replace) the existing Dynamic playlist. Of course, this would work the exact same way as described if I had started with a genre and wanted to add in another genre. Now that would be awesome. Thanks for asking - Tom Tom Hutcheson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=35487 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94988 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
[slim] How do you want to create/manage playlists ?
Since the playlist management in SBS/LMS is a bit limited and most people seems to use external software to manage their playlist it feels like there is a need for something better in SBS/LMS. So, some questions to people that use saved playlists and would like to be easier. Try to think about how you like it to work instead of how it works today. 1. What kind of device would you like to use when creating the playlists ? - A computer - A tablet - A smart phone - A Logitech Controller, Radio or Touch display - A IR remote - Something else 2. How do you decide what should be part of a playlist ? - By selecting the individual tracks you want to include - By selecting the albums you want to include - By selecting the artists you want to include - By automatically selecting 100 tracks that matches some search criteria (genre, ratings, ...) - Something else 3. How do you decide which order the tracks should have in the playlist ? - Random ordered tracks - Random ordered albums - Drag and drop albums to put them into the right order - Drag and drop tracks to put them into the right order - Something else 4. What's the most frustrating limitation with SBS/LMS playlist management today ? - That it doesn't support relative paths in playlist files which are scanned - That it's too hard to reorder tracks in existing playlists - That it's too hard to create completely new playlists - Something else 5. What kind of device would you like to use when modifying existing playlists ? - A computer - A tablet - A smart phone - A Logitech Controller, Radio or Touch display - A IR remote - Something else 6. What kind of modifications do you usually do on already existing playlists ? - Reorder tracks in the playlist - Remove tracks, albums or artists from the playlist - Add new tracks, albums or artists to the playlist - Something else Is there anything else than the above you feel is important to take into consideration if anyone would like to improve the playlist management ? erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94988 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] How do you want to create/manage playlists ?
erland wrote: 1. What kind of device would you like to use when creating the playlists ? - A computer - A tablet - A smart phone - A Logitech Controller, Radio or Touch display - A IR remote - Something elseI currently use a computer, or more specifically, MediaMonkey or Foobar2000 on the computer. I have tried using my smart phone, but found it too limiting. I can't imagine that a controller or remote would suit me for this. erland wrote: 2. How do you decide what should be part of a playlist ? - By selecting the individual tracks you want to include - By selecting the albums you want to include - By selecting the artists you want to include - By automatically selecting 100 tracks that matches some search criteria (genre, ratings, ...) - Something elseIt varies. Individual tracks when I know what I want to listen to. Albums, typically when I have acquired new CDs/downloads and want to listen to them. Automatically, mostly by rating, sometimes by date last listened. Can't remember ever creating lists by artist. erland wrote: 3. How do you decide which order the tracks should have in the playlist ? - Random ordered tracks - Random ordered albums - Drag and drop albums to put them into the right order - Drag and drop tracks to put them into the right order - Something elseWhen I have specific tracks/albums to listen to I dragdrop. For tracks automatically selected by search, I still use MediaMonkey or Foobar2000 to do the search. I have not got past the learning curve of doing it via Squeeze plugins. erland wrote: 4. What's the most frustrating limitation with SBS/LMS playlist management today ? - That it doesn't support relative paths in playlist files which are scanned - That it's too hard to reorder tracks in existing playlists - That it's too hard to create completely new playlists - Something elseAll of them, I guess. Mostly the last two. erland wrote: 5. What kind of device would you like to use when modifying existing playlists ? - A computer - A tablet - A smart phone - A Logitech Controller, Radio or Touch display - A IR remote - Something elsePhones and controllers are too small to effectively show the lists. I don't have a tablet yet, but I am hoping that would work for me one day. erland wrote: 6. What kind of modifications do you usually do on already existing playlists ? - Reorder tracks in the playlist - Remove tracks, albums or artists from the playlist - Add new tracks, albums or artists to the playlist - Something elseI have found myself creating the list in some app and then loading it in MIP where I use the shuffle feature to make similar tracks end up next to each other. This helps to create a list that does not jump wildly between styles/moods. erland wrote: Is there anything else than the above you feel is important to take into consideration if anyone would like to improve the playlist management ?When I have a list of random tracks, I would like the ability to insert a second or two of silence between tracks. Not really playlist related, but I would like to have the album art, artist/album/song info, and track progress shown on my big-screen TV between my speakers, so that I can sit back, relax and listen, without always peering at tiny phone or SB Touch screens to see the info. Henry66's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=38863 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94988 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] How do you want to create/manage playlists ?
Actually all of the ideas expressed in point 1-6 . And a music ip smart playlists creator, you set up some criteria , a seed track and some other parameters and tell it to pull up 100 tracks and make a playlist :) and it should be fast ( 1 second ). Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94988 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
