Re: some advice from Barack Obama to Free Software communities?
Oct 16, 2019, 19:28 by ahil...@keemail.me: > O tempora, o mores. > I cannot understand this language even with translation tools. > You are too dumb to use a search tool. ___ Discussion mailing list Discussion@lists.fsfellowship.eu https://lists.fsfellowship.eu/mailman/listinfo/discussion
Re: some advice from Barack Obama to Free Software communities?
Oct 16, 2019, 15:53 by ahil...@keemail.me: > perhaps also my pills did not work so well. > You always take the wrong pills and forget to take the right pills. ___ Discussion mailing list Discussion@lists.fsfellowship.eu https://lists.fsfellowship.eu/mailman/listinfo/discussion
Re: some advice from Barack Obama to Free Software communities?
Oct 16, 2019, 17:46 by anw...@rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de: Ignorant, but a strong opinion. I'm not ignorant! How can you say that! I don't want to get so upset again, so I'll attribute it to your youthful recklessness. You still have a lot to learn, but if you have as much experience as I have, then you will also recognize the truth. Just as Daniel has known it for a long time and shows us the way! A common fashion nowadays. O tempora, o mores. I cannot understand this language even with translation tools. But keep your stupid jokes for yourself. Better tell us how FSFE helped you fight better for free software! You implied that FSFE had helped you, so there are now more organizations fighting for free software. This is good for all of us, but only if you share your knowledge and don't hide behind strange languages. I already know why I said you can't be a dancer despite your name. Because you always speak in riddles and dancers don't. They are honest because they can't hide anything in their tight suits anyway. If you also want to be so self-confident, then share your knowledge with us. Our great leader wanted us to share our knowledge. So do it and show us the way! ___ Discussion mailing list Discussion@lists.fsfellowship.eu https://lists.fsfellowship.eu/mailman/listinfo/discussion
Re: some advice from Barack Obama to Free Software communities?
Am 16.10.19 um 17:53 schrieb ahil...@keemail.me: I don't know what an E.V. is, but I'm sure the members are filling their pockets. Ignorant, but a strong opinion. A common fashion nowadays. O tempora, o mores. Kind regards Michael signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Discussion mailing list Discussion@lists.fsfellowship.eu https://lists.fsfellowship.eu/mailman/listinfo/discussion
Re: some advice from Barack Obama to Free Software communities?
Oct 16, 2019, 15:37 by bugs@gnu.support: Yes, and I think it does happen for money. Each of those inside of the e.V. or German non-profit also receive some money from foundation, That's it. This scumbag Florian Sow claimed to get a negative salary from FSFE. This is ridiculous! How is that even supposed to work? And why would such a scumbag work for free? And there's no other way to explain the influence of Google's dirty money. I don't know what an E.V. is, but I'm sure the members are filling their pockets. That's probably why they wanted to get rid of Daniel. Otherwise they would have had to share the money with him. Such dirty pigs! They could have simply asked Google for some more money, then everyone would have had some. But no, they kick him out so they can all keep it to themselves. They should burn in the eternal oven! Maybe you have to do something worse! Castrate or roll or something. Best with a Google O. I really have to calm down again, otherwise I'll drive everyone crazy here. I am a very peaceful person. Last week with the whole diarrhoea perhaps also my pills did not work so well. It was really bad. It was all dirty. The toilet and the shower looked bad. And once I didn't get out of bed in time. The matrass still smells bad. And it\s not all white anymore. Anyway, it's better now. But the wrong FSF* upset me so much, sometimes I can't help it. I am sorry. I don't want to offend anyone. ___ Discussion mailing list Discussion@lists.fsfellowship.eu https://lists.fsfellowship.eu/mailman/listinfo/discussion
Re: some advice from Barack Obama to Free Software communities?
* Daniel Pocock [2019-10-16 18:35]: > > What is fellowship? Any reference to it? > > https://fsfellowship.eu/2018/09/08/who-were-the-fsfe-fellowship.html Thank you, that is good that you are trying to make it transparent. In fact the FSFE would get more supporters with more transparency. To say that "infrastructure" expense is 130,000 euro means really nothing and so the other financial categories, that is not transparent at all. > An email circulated by Matthias Kirschner contains the quote: One > general wish -- which I agreed with -- from Debian was to better > share information about people. The email went around privately, as it > is mostly defamatory I'm not planning to publish it publicly. I think it is better to open that and make it clear. > What you describe is politics 101: the people who control the > infrastructure will do what they want, rule by decree and use codes of > conduct as a justification for whatever they want to do anyway. These > are more arguments for changing the structure of FSF and GNU. Yes, and I think it does happen for money. Each of those inside of the e.V. or German non-profit also receive some money from foundation, have their privileges, donations, good image of various other communities, that position is power position which they would not like to destroy. My impression is that they are not quite motivated by free software philosophy, they are doing goods works in general, but would money not be there it is very questionable who would really remain promoting the free software philosophy. And when I said they are doing good work in general I think they could be doing much more provided the money is more efficiently managed. What remains free is for each of free software politicians, people who are pushing the free software philosophy as laid out by RMS, is to promote the same, to take the bunch of articles as published by RMS and to promote the philosophy in the society without any organization. Just donate to your next webmaster to replicate all the articles of free software philosophy, choose one GNU system distribution you like most and make a mirror of it, organize one social action yourself, like a seminar. I did two of those back in time, 17 years ago in Stuttgart, Germany, and I can keep doing more in East Africa even this year. Each of us can push ideology into society, just donate to yourself or your next fellow who is willing to do it, you can skip organizations. Jean ___ Discussion mailing list Discussion@lists.fsfellowship.eu https://lists.fsfellowship.eu/mailman/listinfo/discussion
Re: some advice from Barack Obama to Free Software communities?
On 16/10/2019 14:40, Anco Dapo wrote: For example, do you know how many people made secret recordings of the FSFE annual meeting with their phones? I believe one of them was even using a Free Software app that I contributed to: >>> >>> I call your bluff. Publish the recording or shut up. >> >> >> Use your real name or shut up > > So as always, you have nothing. All you can do is evade questions like a > shady politician. You know you are wrong. You know you have nothing. You > evade questions instead of showing proof. You've just given us the proof that you are a troll. Have a nice day. ___ Discussion mailing list Discussion@lists.fsfellowship.eu https://lists.fsfellowship.eu/mailman/listinfo/discussion
Re: some advice from Barack Obama to Free Software communities?
> >> For example, do you know how many people made secret > >> recordings of the FSFE annual meeting with their phones? I > >> believe one of them was even > >> using a Free Software app that I contributed to: > > > > I call your bluff. Publish the recording or shut up. > > > Use your real name or shut up So as always, you have nothing. All you can do is evade questions like a shady politician. You know you are wrong. You know you have nothing. You evade questions instead of showing proof. ___ Discussion mailing list Discussion@lists.fsfellowship.eu https://lists.fsfellowship.eu/mailman/listinfo/discussion
Re: some advice from Barack Obama to Free Software communities?
Daniel, > you are trying to put all the attention on me personally Because it is an issue with you personally. > For example, do you know how many people made secret > recordings of the FSFE annual meeting with their phones? I > believe one of them was even > using a Free Software app that I contributed to: I call your bluff. Publish the recording or shut up. Anco ___ Discussion mailing list Discussion@lists.fsfellowship.eu https://lists.fsfellowship.eu/mailman/listinfo/discussion
Re: Aw: Re: some advice from Barack Obama to Free Software communities?
On 16/10/2019 14:04, Anco Dapo wrote: > Daniel, > >> Romans used lions and tigers to kill their slaves, now it is email >> lynchings but isn't it the same mindset? > > All I can see is that they removed a disruptive element from their > organization. That is sensible. > > >>> It is unlikely that all these organizations who kicked you out did so >>> without reason. >> >> I wasn't kicked out, I resigned: > > Well, you resigned just before they could kick you out. So that is > essentially the same. And I also wrote about other Multiple people have resigned from FSFE in recent times. Like Florian Snow, you are trying to put all the attention on me personally to avoid the real issues. Your emails are thick on character assassination and void of any constructive solutions. > They do great work and you took up too much of their time. > Rogue elements of Debian blackmail volunteers at Christmas. I'm happy to take up their time if it stops them blackmailing more volunteers. They also host libel on Debian infrastructure, like this: https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2019/01/msg00170.html Is that what you call "great work"? Most people call it cyberbullying. > >> Censorship. Smoking gun. > > I was talking about your recent accusations of the FSFE. So again, you have > no proof. A journalist only needs two sources to publish a story. I have far more than that. If I haven't published proof, what makes you think I haven't seen or heard it in some form? For example, do you know how many people made secret recordings of the FSFE annual meeting with their phones? I believe one of them was even using a Free Software app that I contributed to: https://github.com/Kaljurand/Diktofon/graphs/contributors https://f-droid.org/wiki/page/kaljurand_at_gmail_dot_com.diktofon Regards, Daniel ___ Discussion mailing list Discussion@lists.fsfellowship.eu https://lists.fsfellowship.eu/mailman/listinfo/discussion
Re: some advice from Barack Obama to Free Software communities?
On 16/10/2019 13:49, Jean Louis wrote: > * Daniel Pocock [2019-10-16 18:03]: >> It isn't just the FSFE. Back in Roman times they would demote people >> to be non-citizens and take away their vote, like demoting the Fellows >> to be Supporters. Every now and then they would kill some slaves to >> keep all the other slaves in fear. >> >> Romans used lions and tigers to kill their slaves, now it is email >> lynchings but isn't it the same mindset? >> >>> It is unlikely that all these organizations who kicked you out did so >>> without reason. >> >> I wasn't kicked out, I resigned: >> >> https://lists.fsfe.org/pipermail/discussion/2018-September/012650.html > > What is fellowship? Any reference to it? https://fsfellowship.eu/2018/09/08/who-were-the-fsfe-fellowship.html > >> A few weeks later Matthias Kirschner had a meeting with Chris Lamb >> (Debian) in Italy somewhere and decided to make ongoing hostilities. >> Why this vendetta, why didn't they let sleeping dogs lie after I >> resigned? > > Which hostilities, any reference? > An email circulated by Matthias Kirschner contains the quote: "One general wish -- which I agreed with -- from Debian was to better share information about people". The email went around privately, as it is mostly defamatory I'm not planning to publish it publicly. People who know the history of the Stasi, blacklisting and such are horrified at these conspiracies against volunteers. >> Look at the FSF archives and see if you can find the message I posted in >> support of RMS: >> >> https://danielpocock.com/what-does-fsf-censor/ >> >> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/libreplanet-discuss/2019-10/index.html >> >> Notice that messages posted by Jean Louis and I today don't appear there >> either. Censorship. Smoking gun. > > That is moderated, censored, forbidden, for reasons that they will > simply say it is off-topic. Maybe even Richard Stallman is censored > too. > > They censored many of my messages, and I was just answering to > people. I am not even initiating the conversation. Just > answering. > > But Guix leaders' statement was off-topic for GNU project and nobody > is censoring their page. That is my point, I would not say anything > would there be 1 (one) person responsible to keep GNU project > apolitical or to supervise websites according to GNU kind > communication guidelines. > > Basically everything that RMS said that relates to GNU project and > free software represents free software philosophy. That includes GNU > kind communication guidelines and the point that GNU shall remain > apolitical, and that only politics shall be free software and related > human rights. > > So if there is no inner moderation of politics and bad conduct, then I > am protesting. > > And even Guix developers think that it is off-topic to post it to > Guix-devel and help-guix mailing lists, I think it is very on-topic as > they started posting off-topic defamation of the RMS on Guix pages. What you describe is politics 101: the people who control the infrastructure will do what they want, rule by decree and use codes of conduct as a justification for whatever they want to do anyway. These are more arguments for changing the structure of FSF and GNU. While some people speak up publicly about these concerns, there are many more who recognized these games and simply quit. Better things to do with their time. Regards, Daniel ___ Discussion mailing list Discussion@lists.fsfellowship.eu https://lists.fsfellowship.eu/mailman/listinfo/discussion
Aw: Re: some advice from Barack Obama to Free Software communities?
Daniel, > Romans used lions and tigers to kill their slaves, now it is email > lynchings but isn't it the same mindset? All I can see is that they removed a disruptive element from their organization. That is sensible. > > It is unlikely that all these organizations who kicked you out did so > > without reason. > > I wasn't kicked out, I resigned: Well, you resigned just before they could kick you out. So that is essentially the same. And I also wrote about other organizations. I saw your mails on the Debian lists. I am not surprised they didn't want you there anymore. They do great work and you took up too much of their time. Debian is healthier without you. > Censorship. Smoking gun. I was talking about your recent accusations of the FSFE. So again, you have no proof. Anco ___ Discussion mailing list Discussion@lists.fsfellowship.eu https://lists.fsfellowship.eu/mailman/listinfo/discussion
Re: some advice from Barack Obama to Free Software communities?
* Daniel Pocock [2019-10-16 18:03]: > It isn't just the FSFE. Back in Roman times they would demote people > to be non-citizens and take away their vote, like demoting the Fellows > to be Supporters. Every now and then they would kill some slaves to > keep all the other slaves in fear. > > Romans used lions and tigers to kill their slaves, now it is email > lynchings but isn't it the same mindset? > > > It is unlikely that all these organizations who kicked you out did so > > without reason. > > I wasn't kicked out, I resigned: > > https://lists.fsfe.org/pipermail/discussion/2018-September/012650.html What is fellowship? Any reference to it? > A few weeks later Matthias Kirschner had a meeting with Chris Lamb > (Debian) in Italy somewhere and decided to make ongoing hostilities. > Why this vendetta, why didn't they let sleeping dogs lie after I > resigned? Which hostilities, any reference? > Look at the FSF archives and see if you can find the message I posted in > support of RMS: > > https://danielpocock.com/what-does-fsf-censor/ > > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/libreplanet-discuss/2019-10/index.html > > Notice that messages posted by Jean Louis and I today don't appear there > either. Censorship. Smoking gun. That is moderated, censored, forbidden, for reasons that they will simply say it is off-topic. Maybe even Richard Stallman is censored too. They censored many of my messages, and I was just answering to people. I am not even initiating the conversation. Just answering. But Guix leaders' statement was off-topic for GNU project and nobody is censoring their page. That is my point, I would not say anything would there be 1 (one) person responsible to keep GNU project apolitical or to supervise websites according to GNU kind communication guidelines. Basically everything that RMS said that relates to GNU project and free software represents free software philosophy. That includes GNU kind communication guidelines and the point that GNU shall remain apolitical, and that only politics shall be free software and related human rights. So if there is no inner moderation of politics and bad conduct, then I am protesting. And even Guix developers think that it is off-topic to post it to Guix-devel and help-guix mailing lists, I think it is very on-topic as they started posting off-topic defamation of the RMS on Guix pages. Jean ___ Discussion mailing list Discussion@lists.fsfellowship.eu https://lists.fsfellowship.eu/mailman/listinfo/discussion
Re: some advice from Barack Obama to Free Software communities?
On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 10:10:41AM +0100, Daniel Pocock wrote: > When Kirschner asserts[1] that free software and open source are the > same thing, he appears to be demoting and subverting the philosophy, > denying it is important, maybe even ridiculing it. He doesn't. He says they refer to the same software. Which is, in the intention of both sides (Free and Open Source), true. He explicitly writes that the difference is the "values". ___ Discussion mailing list Discussion@lists.fsfellowship.eu https://lists.fsfellowship.eu/mailman/listinfo/discussion
Re: some advice from Barack Obama to Free Software communities?
Daniel, > then extending the 2 year term of Matthias Kirschner That is not uncommon and I think it is a good thing to have these elections regularly. > Let's hope it is all fake news. It's coming from you, so it most likely is. > Here is what Obama tells us: I don't know what you're trying to say, but there is another lesson we can learn from Obama: Even though the claims about him not being a natural born US citizen were outrageous, he published his birth certificate. You should do the same. If the FSFE and the FSF are as bad as you say and not just good organizations that occasionally make a mistake, then it would be your duty as a free software supporter to show us some proof. Otherwise the effect of your statements is limited. In contrast to Obama though, who had a birth certificate, you have nothing to show. You have been consistently unwilling or more likely unable to support your claims with anything but at least potentially out of context quotes. So I don't think you actually still want to support free software any longer. You are a disgruntled former volunteer who is upset about something small and now wants to destroy the whole organization. Why do you think your problem is not limited to the FSFE? It might be a good idea to have a critical look on your own behavior and figure out which parts you may have caused. It is unlikely that all these organizations who kicked you out did so without reason. You keep on pointing to a smoking gun, but there is none. Anco ___ Discussion mailing list Discussion@lists.fsfellowship.eu https://lists.fsfellowship.eu/mailman/listinfo/discussion
Re: some advice from Barack Obama to Free Software communities?
* Daniel Pocock [2019-10-16 14:41]: > When he uses the FSF*derivative name and his title to demote the > philosophy, that is rather unpleasant. People see the FSF* name and > some think it represents the same philosophy as FSF. Promotion of free software philosophy is not for FSFE in first place. Yes, they do it: https://fsfe.org/about/basics/freesoftware.en.html but that is simply inadequate, with too few references and allowing dillution as you said. Some pages are missing like: https://fsfe.org/freesoftware/transcripts/The-name-GNU Jean ___ Discussion mailing list Discussion@lists.fsfellowship.eu https://lists.fsfellowship.eu/mailman/listinfo/discussion
Re: some advice from Barack Obama to Free Software communities?
* Daniel Pocock [2019-10-16 14:41]: > > > On 16/10/2019 08:21, Dr. Michael Stehmann wrote: > > Hello, > > > > Am 16.10.19 um 09:06 schrieb Jean Louis: > > > >> I would not bash them for that, but then we shall promote free > >> software philosophy without politics. > > > > IMO that is not possible. > > > > May be one thinks, (s)he can promote open source philosophy without > > politics, but not Free Software philosophy. > > > > Promoting freedom has necessarily political implications. > > > > When Kirschner asserts[1] that free software and open source are the > same thing, he appears to be demoting and subverting the philosophy, > denying it is important, maybe even ridiculing it. It is like diluting > fuel with methanol or some other cheaper substance. Yes, I do agree to that. And FSF-friendly organizations such as FSFE or any others shall be subject to review and analysis based on how much they promote the free software philosophy and user rights, versus anything else. Yet if they are not promoting the free software philosophy, then they maybe promote only free software and then we shall consider such groups friend, not enemies. > When he uses the FSF*derivative name and his title to demote the > philosophy, that is rather unpleasant. People see the FSF* name and > some think it represents the same philosophy as FSF. That is true, and yet Internet is accessible to everybody, so even to members of the FSFE. People cannot learn free software philosophy in one day, it is process that may take long time, many years for somebody to realize what the value of it. For myself I have first realized what means GPL, as I have taken time to read it back in 1999. In fact I was convinced that GPL is yet another proprietary license and I was rather fan of warez and copying the software as I wish, "cracked" software was for me number one option. Then I have purchased GNU/Linux book with DVD inside, and because I have purchased it, by thinking it is proprietary, I have taken time to read the GPL. When I understood the GPL, at that time I did not know nothing about the free software philosophy, but I have got big relief that I can freely distribute the software. It was in fact so unbelievable that I have not believed it for longer time, unspoken of being well aware of free software philosophy, I required several months to understand it all in details. At that time I did not know about www.gnu.org website neither FSF, I have been reading it rather through files distributed with GNU Emacs such as GNU Manifesto and similar. The point of the anegdote is that people using "open source" and which are invited to "open source" will not immediately know what is free software philosophy in my opinion, but also those who are invited to "fre software" will need time to understand the user rights and freedom and control issues. All those users have potential one by one, step by step, to understand about free software philosophy, so they are friendly, they are at least in the group of free software users which are still not aware of free software, that is much better than proprietary software users, right? > Doing a combination of changes to an organization's constitution and > doing them at this particular point in time would also be a calculated > insult to the founder of the movement. Kicking a volunteer while he is > down. It is a particularly nasty type of organization that harasses > volunteers even after they have resigned. Which one? > It only adds weight to the assertion that FSFE is an organization > founded on a grudge, not on the Free Software philosophy. > > If you add up their financial disclosures, you find they raised > approximately €3 million in the last 15 years using the FSF* name, a > name taken from the person they are insulting. How could they be more > ungrateful? I agree on that, that is how it is. But that is their organization. I can just suggest to open up your own FSF type of organization, nobody is forbidding it, as all articles of Dr. Richard Stallman are freely licensed. Jean ___ Discussion mailing list Discussion@lists.fsfellowship.eu https://lists.fsfellowship.eu/mailman/listinfo/discussion
Re: some advice from Barack Obama to Free Software communities?
On 16/10/2019 08:21, Dr. Michael Stehmann wrote: > Hello, > > Am 16.10.19 um 09:06 schrieb Jean Louis: > >> I would not bash them for that, but then we shall promote free >> software philosophy without politics. > > IMO that is not possible. > > May be one thinks, (s)he can promote "open source philosophy" without > politics, but not Free Software philosophy. > > Promoting freedom has necessarily political implications. > When Kirschner asserts[1] that free software and open source are the same thing, he appears to be demoting and subverting the philosophy, denying it is important, maybe even ridiculing it. It is like diluting fuel with methanol or some other cheaper substance. In a free world, he is free to talk about open source and his own philosophy. As my new blog post asserts[2], I'm not keen on censoring people. When he uses the FSF*derivative name and his title to demote the philosophy, that is rather unpleasant. People see the FSF* name and some think it represents the same philosophy as FSF. Doing a combination of changes to an organization's constitution and doing them at this particular point in time would also be a calculated insult to the founder of the movement. Kicking a volunteer while he is down. It is a particularly nasty type of organization that harasses volunteers even after they have resigned. It only adds weight to the assertion that FSFE is an organization founded on a grudge, not on the Free Software philosophy. If you add up their financial disclosures, you find they raised approximately €3 million in the last 15 years using the FSF* name, a name taken from the person they are insulting. How could they be more ungrateful? Regards, Daniel 1. https://k7r.eu/2-percent-discussion-free-software-or-open-source-software/ 2. https://danielpocock.com/where-do-censored-developers-go/ ___ Discussion mailing list Discussion@lists.fsfellowship.eu https://lists.fsfellowship.eu/mailman/listinfo/discussion
Re: some advice from Barack Obama to Free Software communities?
* Daniel Pocock [2019-10-16 12:26]: > > I hear that the FSFE annual meeting recently decided to make various > changes to their constitution, removing Richard Stallman's name and > inserting Open Source, then extending the 2 year term of Matthias > Kirschner indefinitely so he can be president for life. > > Let's hope it is all fake news. It would be good to provide link or reference. But it does not matter really, as everbody is free to open up their own FSF, do you understand? You can do it in Germany. Even articles and by-laws of FSF in Boston are welcoming friendly other FSF organizations. The free software philosophy is free, licensed to be free for anybody, so the foundation for any new FSF is laid out, and GNU system is already in existence in multiples, everbody can form their own organizations. I would not bash them for that, but then we shall promote free software philosophy without politics. Jean ___ Discussion mailing list Discussion@lists.fsfellowship.eu https://lists.fsfellowship.eu/mailman/listinfo/discussion
some advice from Barack Obama to Free Software communities?
I hear that the FSFE annual meeting recently decided to make various changes to their constitution, removing Richard Stallman's name and inserting Open Source, then extending the 2 year term of Matthias Kirschner indefinitely so he can be president for life. Let's hope it is all fake news. Here is what Obama tells us: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjaY6ybk178 ___ Discussion mailing list Discussion@lists.fsfellowship.eu https://lists.fsfellowship.eu/mailman/listinfo/discussion
