Re: [Diversity-talk] Code of Conduct & Moderation for this list

[Rory McCann]

Hi all,

I'm using the power entrusted to me by the list admins, and choosing the
draft CoC as our official CoC, with the feedback from the list.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Diversity/MailingList/CodeOfConduct

I'll try to enforce that CoC, and only give mod powers to people who'll
enforce it. I'm human, who watches the watchers and all that.

In my opinion the comment from cray33 on SeleneYang's diary entry would
count as sexist, and merit a ban from the list. If I knew their email
address, I'd ban them now.

Rory

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Re: [Diversity-talk] Code of Conduct & Moderation for this list

[Blake Girardot]

Hi Liz, hi everyone,

Thank you very much for this Liz.

I really just want to pull out one section for extra emphasis because there
is so much good information on this issue, some folks might not get to the
ada link, and I think it addresses a previous email about "lets only be
positive" and why that might not be the best model. Here is the quote from
Ada Initiative link that Liz and others have provided, that most resonates
with me
https://adainitiative.org/2014/02/18/howto-design-a-code-of-conduct-for-your-community/
:

"90% of the effect and work is in being specific, for several reasons:

_The major weapon of harassers is arguing whether something is actually
harassing._ It is difficult to enforce a CoC if you have to have a month
long nasty argument about whether it was violated. _It burns out people
like you._

The list of “don’ts” educates people on what to do, so you avoid problems
in the first place."


We have already seen the second sentence put into practice just in the
discussion about having a CoC.

We must find a way to be specific in what is not welcome in our community.

respectfully,
blake


On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Liz Barry  wrote:

> These links are so great, i am really appreciating this thread! I will be
> +1 on whatever CoC the group is into practicing on this listserve, it will
> be a big step forward.
>
> The HOT Complaint Handling Process is super clear -- something like this,
> and like the reporting structure of OSGeo, is critical for a CoC to come
> into practice and not just be another poster on the wall/web. Similarly,
> check out the process described at the top of the anonymous reporting form
> on publiclab.org/conduct. http://sage.thesharps.us/ is a great reference
> on this.
>
> Being based in rights was critical for Public Lab as we set up a CoC to
> describe how we want to relate to each other, which goes beyond stopping
> harassment as it reframes the internal power dynamics of open source
> communities from being like a clubhouse to being like a society. It is
> useful to explain with clear, mundane examples how to relate to each other
> when introducing sometimes abstract / high minded principles of
> responsibility, empathy, dignity, consent.
>
> Adjacently, I will mention the book "Conflict Is Not Abuse" by Sarah
> Schulman, which details in a very readable, relatable manner the cost of
> *not* figuring out how to hold a caring democratic space amongst each
> other -- the extension of external power into our individual and community
> lives. I have an inkling that some of the dynamics that she walks through
> might apply to some of the misunderstandings about CoCs that we've seen in
> OSM -- perhaps not enough self-checking, meaning that those whose actions
> are sometimes harassing to others actually perceive themselves as victims
> and continue to escalate in a misdirected effort against peers to resist
> the perceived expansion of external power, when in fact, these escalations
> only weaken our community from the inside out. I would happily re-read this
> book and book club it with any group of people thinking deeply about open
> source community health.
>
> I am really grateful for everyone here, thanks for reading,
> Liz
>
> PS, in case you still feel like reading, here's the full sourcing of the
> lineage that we pulled into Public Lab's CoC
>  (copied from about halfway down in this
> post
> 
> ).
>
> We framed the very top of the document with language from in-person
> democratic space holding that emphasizes the combination of respect and
> responsibility. The sentiment of "for democracy to work for everybody..."
> as practiced by the Highlander Center for grassroots organizing and
> movement building in Appalachia / the South is described in the book by
> Miles Horton "The Long Haul: an autobiography". Also see
> http://highlandercenter.org/. We also drew from the Jemez Principles for
> Democratic Organizing  which was
> written in 1996 by forty people of color and European-American
> representatives who met in Jemez, New Mexico with an "intention of
> hammering out common understandings between participants from different
> cultures, politics and organizations." Carla
>  added the
> clarifying points on dignity during interactions.
>
> For the fundamentals, we looked to the Ada Initiative guide to writing
> Codes of Conduct (CoCs) https://adainitiative.
> org/2014/02/18/howto-design-a-code-of-conduct-for-your-community/,
> specifically these three points:
>
>- List specific common behaviors that are not okay
>- Include detailed directions for reporting violations
>- Have a defined and documented complaint handling process
>
> Over that, we added a heavy overlay of JoyConf consent and empathy culture:
>  

Re: [Diversity-talk] Who says we need a code of conduct?

[Blake Girardot]

On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 4:11 PM, Dan S  wrote:
> Hi
>
> There are lots of shouty babies like that in online discussions. The
> challenge is to keep remembering that they're naive/immature (even
> though the keyboard hides it) - they sap less of your energy that
> way...
>
> Dan
>

Hi Dan, unfortunately I think our experience shows, while true what
you say, it is not really a solution and just leads to reduced
diversity and participation, and is partly why we are in the situation
we are in.

Respectfully,
blake



>
> 2018-03-06 14:56 GMT+00:00 Selene Yang :
>> Hi! I wrote an entry in my OSM diary about diversity
>> (https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/SeleneYang/diary/43446)  in the
>> community using the OSM Awards as an example, and one of the answers from an
>> OSM collaborator was:
>>
>> Comentario de cray33 el 6 de marzo de 2018 a las 10:03
>>
>> fuck diversity. A man and a woman are different from each other. You can't
>> change the nature
>>
>>
>> So I guess... Who needs a CoC when we have such an inclusive and well
>> mannered community. :sigh: This is not the first time I've read a violent
>> response from a community member when it comes to gender related issues. I
>> don't know if you recall the `man=made` vs  `human=made` debacle, and yet
>> we're still here debating whether or not we need to enforce a CoC.
>>
>> I'm truly disappointed in the community.
>> Thanks for reading.
>>
>> Sele.
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Selene Yang Rappaccioli
>> Candidata Doctoral en Comunicación
>> Universidad Nacional de La Plata
>> @SeleneYang
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Diversity-talk mailing list
>> Code of Conduct: TBD
>> Contact the mods (private): diversity-talk-ow...@openstreetmap.org
>
> ___
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-- 

Blake Girardot
OSM Wiki - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot
HOTOSM Member - https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot
skype: jblakegirardot

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Re: [Diversity-talk] Code of Conduct & Moderation for this list

[Liz Barry]

These links are so great, i am really appreciating this thread! I will be
+1 on whatever CoC the group is into practicing on this listserve, it will
be a big step forward.

The HOT Complaint Handling Process is super clear -- something like this,
and like the reporting structure of OSGeo, is critical for a CoC to come
into practice and not just be another poster on the wall/web. Similarly,
check out the process described at the top of the anonymous reporting form
on publiclab.org/conduct. http://sage.thesharps.us/ is a great reference on
this.

Being based in rights was critical for Public Lab as we set up a CoC to
describe how we want to relate to each other, which goes beyond stopping
harassment as it reframes the internal power dynamics of open source
communities from being like a clubhouse to being like a society. It is
useful to explain with clear, mundane examples how to relate to each other
when introducing sometimes abstract / high minded principles of
responsibility, empathy, dignity, consent.

Adjacently, I will mention the book "Conflict Is Not Abuse" by Sarah
Schulman, which details in a very readable, relatable manner the cost of
*not* figuring out how to hold a caring democratic space amongst each other
-- the extension of external power into our individual and community lives.
I have an inkling that some of the dynamics that she walks through might
apply to some of the misunderstandings about CoCs that we've seen in OSM --
perhaps not enough self-checking, meaning that those whose actions are
sometimes harassing to others actually perceive themselves as victims and
continue to escalate in a misdirected effort against peers to resist the
perceived expansion of external power, when in fact, these escalations only
weaken our community from the inside out. I would happily re-read this book
and book club it with any group of people thinking deeply about open source
community health.

I am really grateful for everyone here, thanks for reading,
Liz

PS, in case you still feel like reading, here's the full sourcing of the
lineage that we pulled into Public Lab's CoC 
(copied from about halfway down in this post

).

We framed the very top of the document with language from in-person
democratic space holding that emphasizes the combination of respect and
responsibility. The sentiment of "for democracy to work for everybody..."
as practiced by the Highlander Center for grassroots organizing and
movement building in Appalachia / the South is described in the book by
Miles Horton "The Long Haul: an autobiography". Also see
http://highlandercenter.org/. We also drew from the Jemez Principles for
Democratic Organizing  which was written
in 1996 by forty people of color and European-American representatives who
met in Jemez, New Mexico with an "intention of hammering out common
understandings between participants from different cultures, politics and
organizations." Carla
 added the
clarifying points on dignity during interactions.

For the fundamentals, we looked to the Ada Initiative guide to writing
Codes of Conduct (CoCs)
https://adainitiative.org/2014/02/18/howto-design-a-code-of-conduct-for-your-community/,
specifically these three points:

   - List specific common behaviors that are not okay
   - Include detailed directions for reporting violations
   - Have a defined and documented complaint handling process

Over that, we added a heavy overlay of JoyConf consent and empathy culture:
https://github.com/maitria/code-of-welcome/blob/master/coc.md
Refinements

   - After Geek Feminism http://geekfeminism.org/about/code-of-conduct/ and
   Django https://www.djangoproject.com/conduct/, we described the set of
   spaces that our community is active in and to which the CoC applies
   - From @Mathew  suggestion of
   http://stumptownsyndicate.org/about/guiding-principles/ we added a list
   of who the CoC applies to, seeking to level status
   - @Klie  designed the reporting
   process via anonymous online submission form, and converted the list of
   unwanted behaviors to "Do's and Don'ts":
   https://goo.gl/forms/Ma6lEkZ0TuE7D9FZ2 (updated for 2017)
   - @Kanarinka  wrote in our
   existing practice of checking in before posting people on social media
   - Potentially unique to Public Lab, we created a dual moderators group
   and facilitation group which cannot entirely be described by an
   online/offline dichotomy. The Addendum clarifies that staff of the
   non-profit are additionally bound by their Employment handbooks which meet
   federal and state laws.
   - Generally, a lot of solid and clarifying editing by Nick, Shannon,
   Klie, Carla and Public Lab staffers, and the organizers.

Re: [Diversity-talk] Who says we need a code of conduct?

[russell . deffner]

Dear Selene,

 

First, I am sorry – to anyone who has to deal with ignorance and/or harassment 
in the broader OSM community. I won’t pretend I can exactly put myself in your 
shoes, but I know I wouldn’t want to be there. I want to help build an 
environment where we at least have a way to address harassment. I took a quick 
look over the main website and searched the wiki for “harassment” and it only 
comes up with Codes of Conduct for conferences. A search for similar terms also 
returns pretty much nothing. So taking away those of us who know other OSM 
people and those who are brave enough to speak out on a list, etc. – how many 
potentially valuable contributors have been harassed out of the project because 
there is apparently nothing you can do about it?

 

I see great people on this list who I have no doubt can write an amazing Code 
of Conduct and maybe enforce it on this list and get other list admins to do 
the same, great start, but we really need the fundamental governance mechanisms 
to be adopted and enforced at the OSMF.

 

For clarity, I am a voting member of HOT and was their chair when we were in a 
similar situation and needed the mechanisms to enforce respectable behavior – 
which was not fun and took a long time. I am also a paying member of the OSM-US 
mainly because I run a few local meetups. But I am not, and will not be, a 
paying member of the OSMF until there is some significant work done to make OSM 
a safer community.

 

I urge everyone to pick their battles, but please – don’t feed the trolls,

=Russ

 

Russell Deffner

russell.deff...@hotosm.org

 

From: Selene Yang  
Sent: Tuesday, March 6, 2018 7:56 AM
To: OSM Diversity 
Subject: [Diversity-talk] Who says we need a code of conduct?

 

Hi! I wrote an entry in my OSM diary about diversity 
(https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/SeleneYang/diary/43446)  in the community 
using the OSM Awards as an example, and one of the answers from an OSM 
collaborator was:

 

Comentario de   cray33 el  
 6 de 
marzo de 2018 a las 10:03

fuck diversity. A man and a woman are different from each other. You can't 
change the nature

 

So I guess... Who needs a CoC when we have such an inclusive and well mannered 
community. :sigh: This is not the first time I've read a violent response from 
a community member when it comes to gender related issues. I don't know if you 
recall the `man=made` vs  `human=made` debacle, and yet we're still here 
debating whether or not we need to enforce a CoC.

 

I'm truly disappointed in the community.

Thanks for reading.

 

Sele.




 

-- 

Selene Yang Rappaccioli
Candidata Doctoral en Comunicación
Universidad Nacional de La Plata
@SeleneYang

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Re: [Diversity-talk] Who says we need a code of conduct?

[Alex Barth]

This is not acceptable, we can't ignore  behavior like this and  need to
pull access to comment threads at least temporarily
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/SeleneYang/diary/43446#comment41172

On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 7:11 AM, Dan S  wrote:

> Hi
>
> There are lots of shouty babies like that in online discussions. The
> challenge is to keep remembering that they're naive/immature (even
> though the keyboard hides it) - they sap less of your energy that
> way...
>
> Dan
>
>
>
> 2018-03-06 14:56 GMT+00:00 Selene Yang :
> > Hi! I wrote an entry in my OSM diary about diversity
> > (https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/SeleneYang/diary/43446)  in the
> > community using the OSM Awards as an example, and one of the answers
> from an
> > OSM collaborator was:
> >
> > Comentario de cray33 el 6 de marzo de 2018 a las 10:03
> >
> > fuck diversity. A man and a woman are different from each other. You
> can't
> > change the nature
> >
> >
> > So I guess... Who needs a CoC when we have such an inclusive and well
> > mannered community. :sigh: This is not the first time I've read a violent
> > response from a community member when it comes to gender related issues.
> I
> > don't know if you recall the `man=made` vs  `human=made` debacle, and yet
> > we're still here debating whether or not we need to enforce a CoC.
> >
> > I'm truly disappointed in the community.
> > Thanks for reading.
> >
> > Sele.
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Selene Yang Rappaccioli
> > Candidata Doctoral en Comunicación
> > Universidad Nacional de La Plata
> > @SeleneYang
> >
> >
> > ___
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>
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Re: [Diversity-talk] Who says we need a code of conduct?

[Dan S]

Hi

There are lots of shouty babies like that in online discussions. The
challenge is to keep remembering that they're naive/immature (even
though the keyboard hides it) - they sap less of your energy that
way...

Dan



2018-03-06 14:56 GMT+00:00 Selene Yang :
> Hi! I wrote an entry in my OSM diary about diversity
> (https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/SeleneYang/diary/43446)  in the
> community using the OSM Awards as an example, and one of the answers from an
> OSM collaborator was:
>
> Comentario de cray33 el 6 de marzo de 2018 a las 10:03
>
> fuck diversity. A man and a woman are different from each other. You can't
> change the nature
>
>
> So I guess... Who needs a CoC when we have such an inclusive and well
> mannered community. :sigh: This is not the first time I've read a violent
> response from a community member when it comes to gender related issues. I
> don't know if you recall the `man=made` vs  `human=made` debacle, and yet
> we're still here debating whether or not we need to enforce a CoC.
>
> I'm truly disappointed in the community.
> Thanks for reading.
>
> Sele.
>
>
> --
>
> Selene Yang Rappaccioli
> Candidata Doctoral en Comunicación
> Universidad Nacional de La Plata
> @SeleneYang
>
>
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[Diversity-talk] Who says we need a code of conduct?

[Selene Yang]

Hi! I wrote an entry in my OSM diary about diversity (
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/SeleneYang/diary/43446)  in the
community using the OSM Awards as an example, and one of the answers from
an OSM collaborator was:

Comentario de cray33  el 6 de
marzo de 2018 a las 10:03


fuck diversity. A man and a woman are different from each other. You can't
change the nature

So I guess... Who needs a CoC when we have such an inclusive and well
mannered community. :sigh: This is not the first time I've read a violent
response from a community member when it comes to gender related issues. I
don't know if you recall the `man=made` vs  `human=made` debacle, and yet
we're still here debating whether or not we need to enforce a CoC.

I'm truly disappointed in the community.
Thanks for reading.

Sele.


-- 

Selene Yang Rappaccioli
Candidata Doctoral en Comunicación
Universidad Nacional de La Plata
@SeleneYang
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