Re: Distributed workflow and the woes of slow testsuite

[Hanne Moa]

On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 18:04, mrts  wrote:
> As of now, I'll stop pursuing this further, but when I come back to
> this,
> would the approach outlined in http://dpaste.com/108140/ be
> acceptable?
>
> I.e. if
> 1) not specified explicitly (by the --multiprocessing option to test)
> 2) there's only a single core in the system
> 3) importing the multiprocessing module fails
> run the ordinary single-process test runner.

Django doesn't need this yet but to show what is happening elsewhere...

CPAN have plans for fully automated testing: an os-image with the
needed libraries is created and distributed, tests are run in the
vhost and results are sent to an accumulator, in essence: c...@home...

:)


HM

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Re: Distributed workflow and the woes of slow testsuite

[mrts]

On Jan 12, 3:45 pm, "Jacob Kaplan-Moss" 
wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 6:53 AM, mrts  wrote:
> > What if we try to be nice to ourselves and get #8138 and something in
> > the lines ofhttp://oebfare.com/blog/2008/mar/25/faster-django-test-suite/
> > into trunk ASAP
>
> #8138 is nearly done; there are still a couple of tricky issues to
> work out first. Those who've been paying attention to the ticket know
> this.
>
> Running a multiprocess/multithreaded version of the tests is a
> trickier issue: while in theory tests ought to be isolated from each
> other, at times subtle bugs only show up when the whole test suite is
> run en masse. So while I think the way Brian's going, there's never
> going to be a substitute for simply running the whole test suite.

As of now, I'll stop pursuing this further, but when I come back to
this,
would the approach outlined in http://dpaste.com/108140/ be
acceptable?

I.e. if
1) not specified explicitly (by the --multiprocessing option to test)
2) there's only a single core in the system
3) importing the multiprocessing module fails
run the ordinary single-process test runner.
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Re: Distributed workflow and the woes of slow testsuite

[Brian Rosner]

On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 5:53 AM, mrts  wrote:

> What if we try to be nice to ourselves and get #8138 and something in
> the lines of http://oebfare.com/blog/2008/mar/25/faster-django-test-suite/
> into trunk ASAP, especially now that the dynamic workflow is really
> gaining ground (both aggregates and model-validation is managed this
> way)?

I am all for a faster test suite and #8138 is going to give us a nice
speed boost, but my test runner is not ultimately a great way to go at
this point. It would require the processing library thus making it
really only viable for those running Python 2.6+. While it can be made
optional, that is what it is now. I am all for its inclusion, but lets
wait until it becomes, first, more stable (used by more people than
me), and two, more people can actually take advantage of it out of the
box.

-- 
Brian Rosner
http://oebfare.com

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Re: Distributed workflow and the woes of slow testsuite

[Jacob Kaplan-Moss]

On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 7:44 AM, Karen Tracey  wrote:
> (There was a mini-sprint on Saturday?  I missed the memo -- where are these
> things being announced or was this just impromptu?)

It was really just a handful of us in Lawrence getting together for
the afternoon; those who were in #django-dev joined in. I didn't want
to make a big deal of it.

Jacob

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Re: Distributed workflow and the woes of slow testsuite

[Jacob Kaplan-Moss]

On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 6:53 AM, mrts  wrote:
> What if we try to be nice to ourselves and get #8138 and something in
> the lines of http://oebfare.com/blog/2008/mar/25/faster-django-test-suite/
> into trunk ASAP

#8138 is nearly done; there are still a couple of tricky issues to
work out first. Those who've been paying attention to the ticket know
this.

Running a multiprocess/multithreaded version of the tests is a
trickier issue: while in theory tests ought to be isolated from each
other, at times subtle bugs only show up when the whole test suite is
run en masse. So while I think the way Brian's going, there's never
going to be a substitute for simply running the whole test suite.
Jacob

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Re: Distributed workflow and the woes of slow testsuite

[Karen Tracey]

On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 8:25 AM, James Bennett wrote:

>
> On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 6:53 AM, mrts  wrote:
> > What if we try to be nice to ourselves and get #8138 and something in
> > the lines of
> http://oebfare.com/blog/2008/mar/25/faster-django-test-suite/
> > into trunk ASAP
>
> What if we pay attention to the work that's been done on that
> recently, including during the mini-sprint on Saturday?
>

(There was a mini-sprint on Saturday?  I missed the memo -- where are these
things being announced or was this just impromptu?)

I've spent a lot of time on #8138 and would be interested in more feedback
from people with tests beyond the Django testsuite on the last patch I
posted there (8138alternate-nodoctestxaction.diff).  I've got one big
unresolved question that I intend to solicit feedback from this list on
today, once I get a chance to write it up.

Karen

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Re: Distributed workflow and the woes of slow testsuite

[James Bennett]

On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 6:53 AM, mrts  wrote:
> What if we try to be nice to ourselves and get #8138 and something in
> the lines of http://oebfare.com/blog/2008/mar/25/faster-django-test-suite/
> into trunk ASAP

What if we pay attention to the work that's been done on that
recently, including during the mini-sprint on Saturday?



-- 
"Bureaucrat Conrad, you are technically correct -- the best kind of correct."

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Distributed workflow and the woes of slow testsuite

[mrts]

A proper "agile" workflow for distributed collaboration on a largeish
chunk of functionality should be as follows:

Feature developer:
* implement tests for the features to be added
* commit locally
* implement the features
* commit locally
* run the test suite iteratively, fixing whatever the tests indicate
needs fixing
* commit locally
* push your changes to GitHub or whatever other public code hosting
service is used for collaboration

Lieutenant:
* review changes, expecting that the tests pass
* pull changes from feature developer's repo to the "central" repo
* run the test suite
* push changes to the public code hosting service

Nice and clean -- in an ideal world. In real life, the humongous time
wasted on running the test suite causes a tiny impulse of frustration
to be transmitted between the neurons in the developer's brain on
every line where you read "run the test suite".

Let me bet -- every single Django developer, who runs the test suite
regularly, has felt discomfort thinking of the time he has to wait for
the suite to complete. Which means slight aversion regards running the
tests, which in turn, brings about that tests are run as a last resort
("doh, I have to run the tests"), not as the happy default path ("yay,
time to run the tests!").

What if we try to be nice to ourselves and get #8138 and something in
the lines of http://oebfare.com/blog/2008/mar/25/faster-django-test-suite/
into trunk ASAP, especially now that the dynamic workflow is really
gaining ground (both aggregates and model-validation is managed this
way)?

(Lessons learned while collaborating on model-validation with Honza.
Given a dual-core T5500 CPU, 2 GB RAM, Ubuntu and SQLite on a laptop,
the full test suite takes 1346.841s (22 minutes!) to complete on the
trunk.)

"Work with People’s Instincts, Not Against Them"-ly yours,
Mart Sõmermaa

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