Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Warren Chu]

 I would guess there are few cases 
>>>> where the same database server is used for production and the other 
>>>> environments.
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Nov 27, 2020 at 1:18 PM r...@whidbey.com  
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Good news.  I've been using Django on MSSQL for about 8 years.  Couple 
>>>>> of things:
>>>>> - I've been using pyodbc, not django-mssql.  I note your messages from 
>>>>> 2015 include it as a library to check for compatibility; what was the 
>>>>> outcome of that?  Is it proposed that django-mssql become the 
>>>>> "best-practices" interface for SQL Server?
>>>>> - Couple of persistent pain points:
>>>>>   1. Testing.  The Django code that sets up test databases fails with 
>>>>> MSSQL, while it succeeds with PostGRE, MySQL and SQLite.  The issues seem 
>>>>> to revolve around setting constraints as the tables are generated, rather 
>>>>> than holding off and enabling the constraints at the end of the process.
>>>>>   2. Stored Procedures.  These need to be loaded as an additional step 
>>>>> in the creation of a database, and don't really have any representation 
>>>>> in 
>>>>> Django per se so migrations, etc don't generally have an idea that they 
>>>>> exist.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd be happy to test out what you come up with against our system.  
>>>>> It's currently serving a custom REST interface with 2-million-plus rows 
>>>>> of 
>>>>> transactions,with clients world-wide, along with a customer-facing web 
>>>>> app, 
>>>>> a staff site and a suite of Tableau reports.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 5:40:18 PM UTC-8 vwa...@gmail.com 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Microsoft has now committed ongoing resources towards improving MSSQL 
>>>>>> and Azure SQL support for Django. We're currently focused on internal 
>>>>>> compliance and forking the ESSolutions django-mssql-backend 
>>>>>> <https://github.com/ESSolutions/django-mssql-backend>, adding 
>>>>>> testing pipelines, refactoring the Django DB engine naming convention, 
>>>>>> and 
>>>>>> addressing current test suite errors.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We'd love to hear from current mssql-backend maintainers as well as 
>>>>>> mssql-backend users about the existing issues and feature requests that 
>>>>>> we 
>>>>>> should be prioritizing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We looking forward to engaging the community and working towards 
>>>>>> MSSQL as a first-class supported backend for Django.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Warren
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wednesday, 4 December 2019 at 07:05:25 UTC-8 Tim Allen wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Sean, just an update from what I know.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We are still waiting for a reply from Microsoft. They're a large 
>>>>>>> company, so understandably, it takes a little while.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For now, if people need to get onto Django 2.2 for long term support 
>>>>>>> (which will last until April, 2022), you can use this package:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://github.com/ESSolutions/django-mssql-backend I've been 
>>>>>>> running it in production for months without incident. Of course, YMMV.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If Microsoft and/or the DSF end up wanting to bring support under 
>>>>>>> the Django umbrella, the django-mssql-backend repository is a 
>>>>>>> possible starting point, IMHO.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The django-mssql-backend is currently being developed and support 
>>>>>>> for Django 3.0 is being worked on: 
>>>>>>> ESSolutions/django-mssql-backend#18 
>>>>>>> <https://github.com/ESSolutions/django-mssql-backend/issues/18>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tim
>

Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Adam Johnson]

th PostGRE, MySQL and SQLite.  The issues seem
>>>> to revolve around setting constraints as the tables are generated, rather
>>>> than holding off and enabling the constraints at the end of the process.
>>>>   2. Stored Procedures.  These need to be loaded as an additional step
>>>> in the creation of a database, and don't really have any representation in
>>>> Django per se so migrations, etc don't generally have an idea that they
>>>> exist.
>>>>
>>>> I'd be happy to test out what you come up with against our system.
>>>> It's currently serving a custom REST interface with 2-million-plus rows of
>>>> transactions,with clients world-wide, along with a customer-facing web app,
>>>> a staff site and a suite of Tableau reports.
>>>>
>>>> On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 5:40:18 PM UTC-8 vwa...@gmail.com
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>
>>>>> Microsoft has now committed ongoing resources towards improving MSSQL
>>>>> and Azure SQL support for Django. We're currently focused on internal
>>>>> compliance and forking the ESSolutions django-mssql-backend
>>>>> <https://github.com/ESSolutions/django-mssql-backend>, adding testing
>>>>> pipelines, refactoring the Django DB engine naming convention, and
>>>>> addressing current test suite errors.
>>>>>
>>>>> We'd love to hear from current mssql-backend maintainers as well as
>>>>> mssql-backend users about the existing issues and feature requests that we
>>>>> should be prioritizing.
>>>>>
>>>>> We looking forward to engaging the community and working towards MSSQL
>>>>> as a first-class supported backend for Django.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Warren
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wednesday, 4 December 2019 at 07:05:25 UTC-8 Tim Allen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Sean, just an update from what I know.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We are still waiting for a reply from Microsoft. They're a large
>>>>>> company, so understandably, it takes a little while.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For now, if people need to get onto Django 2.2 for long term support
>>>>>> (which will last until April, 2022), you can use this package:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://github.com/ESSolutions/django-mssql-backend I've been
>>>>>> running it in production for months without incident. Of course, YMMV.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If Microsoft and/or the DSF end up wanting to bring support under the
>>>>>> Django umbrella, the django-mssql-backend repository is a possible
>>>>>> starting point, IMHO.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The django-mssql-backend is currently being developed and support
>>>>>> for Django 3.0 is being worked on:
>>>>>> ESSolutions/django-mssql-backend#18
>>>>>> <https://github.com/ESSolutions/django-mssql-backend/issues/18>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tim
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Monday, December 2, 2019 at 11:03:56 AM UTC-5, Sean Martz wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It seems like this issue has lost momentum. Is this still something
>>>>>>> that's on anyones radar? It looks like django-pyodbc-azure is not 
>>>>>>> actively
>>>>>>> maintained anymore (it looks like Michaya has taken a hiatus from 
>>>>>>> GitHub).
>>>>>>> It also looks like there's a small community potentially popping up 
>>>>>>> that's
>>>>>>> interested in first class MSSQL Server support for Django. (
>>>>>>> https://github.com/FlipperPA/django-mssql-backend). Is Microsoft
>>>>>>> still interested in committing resources to this goal? In my situation, 
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> would be a lot easier to sell stakeholders and decision makers on 
>>>>>>> Django if
>>>>>>> it had first class support for MSSQL Server.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For what it's worth, Django-pyodbc-azure is still working well.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> Sean
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>> Groups "Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>> an email to django-develop...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/a531fb44-4a5c-48f3-b28c-d78e3419141fn%40googlegroups.com
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/a531fb44-4a5c-48f3-b28c-d78e3419141fn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>>>> .
>>>>
>>> --
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Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Florian Apolloner]

Hi Warren,

> A) django-mssql is viewed as the Phase 1 focus and current preferred 
option with a longer term Phase 2 goal of including MSSQL as a supported 
backend for Django core

Please keep in mind that Phase 2 is something that might never happen. We 
have a tendency to not bloat Django and there is no reason why a database 
backend cannot live outside of core. Tim Graham is currently working on a 
cockroach backend and is running against the builtin Django testsuite (+ 
submitting patches to Django where we need to alter tests due to reliance 
on PKs etc…). This approach works imo very well (I did the same when 
writing a backend for Informix). We are very supportive of 3rd party db 
backends in the sense that we usually quickly address issues in our 
testsuite etc to make testing those external backends against Django 
easier. In that sense there is no strong reason to include the MSSQL 
backend in core. Package management in Python works well enough to allow 
the backend to stay external. 

Personally I think having the django-mssql backend with MS support behind 
it (be that test infra for the existing django-mssql fork etc) is already 
the icing on the cake.

Cheers,
Florian


On Friday, December 4, 2020 at 2:59:43 AM UTC+1 vwa...@gmail.com wrote:

> Thanks for the responses.
>
> @Florian - I've now reached out to the maintainers of ESSolutions as well 
> as the relevant previous Microsoft engagement owners, thanks for the 
> suggestion
>
> @Chris - This is excellent news indeed, we are excited to make progress 
> beginning with some small steps
>
> @r...@whidbey.com - 
> A) django-mssql is viewed as the Phase 1 focus and current preferred 
> option with a longer term Phase 2 goal of including MSSQL as a supported 
> backend for Django core
> B) I've now logged both your pain points as issues in our private repo 
> (which will be made public after internal compliance reviews)
> C) Happy to hear about your scaled production app using Django and MSSQL. 
> Could I ask you to send a "Hello" email to myself at v-wa...@microsoft.com, 
> so that we can follow up with eventual testing?
>
> @dans...@gmail.com - Your security concerns are important and noted, I've 
> flagged this for investigation as a priority
>
> Cheers,
> Warren
> On Friday, 27 November 2020 at 10:57:09 UTC-8 dans...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I'd suggest someone talk with professional DBAs for MSSQL.  In my work, 
>> which is Federal government, the DBA told me that disconnecting from PSQL 
>> as "appuser" and attempting to connect to database "postgres" in order to 
>> create the test database violated FISMA.  I had to subclass my own 
>> postgresql backend to create the test user while connected to my actual 
>> database.  I would imagine that the original reasons for doing it this way 
>> harkens back to a time when people used the same database server for 
>> production, staging, qa, and integration, and some of these environments 
>> may not have existed. While in some organizations we have only production, 
>> staging/qa, and development/integration, I would guess there are few cases 
>> where the same database server is used for production and the other 
>> environments.
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 27, 2020 at 1:18 PM r...@whidbey.com  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Good news.  I've been using Django on MSSQL for about 8 years.  Couple 
>>> of things:
>>> - I've been using pyodbc, not django-mssql.  I note your messages from 
>>> 2015 include it as a library to check for compatibility; what was the 
>>> outcome of that?  Is it proposed that django-mssql become the 
>>> "best-practices" interface for SQL Server?
>>> - Couple of persistent pain points:
>>>   1. Testing.  The Django code that sets up test databases fails with 
>>> MSSQL, while it succeeds with PostGRE, MySQL and SQLite.  The issues seem 
>>> to revolve around setting constraints as the tables are generated, rather 
>>> than holding off and enabling the constraints at the end of the process.
>>>   2. Stored Procedures.  These need to be loaded as an additional step 
>>> in the creation of a database, and don't really have any representation in 
>>> Django per se so migrations, etc don't generally have an idea that they 
>>> exist.
>>>
>>> I'd be happy to test out what you come up with against our system.  It's 
>>> currently serving a custom REST interface with 2-million-plus rows of 
>>> transactions,with clients world-wide, along with a customer-facing web app, 
>>> a staff site and a suite of Tableau reports.
>>>
>>> On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 5:40:18 PM UT

Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Warren Chu]

Thanks for the responses.

@Florian - I've now reached out to the maintainers of ESSolutions as well 
as the relevant previous Microsoft engagement owners, thanks for the 
suggestion

@Chris - This is excellent news indeed, we are excited to make progress 
beginning with some small steps

@r...@whidbey.com - 
A) django-mssql is viewed as the Phase 1 focus and current preferred option 
with a longer term Phase 2 goal of including MSSQL as a supported backend 
for Django core
B) I've now logged both your pain points as issues in our private repo 
(which will be made public after internal compliance reviews)
C) Happy to hear about your scaled production app using Django and MSSQL. 
Could I ask you to send a "Hello" email to myself at 
v-war...@microsoft.com, so that we can follow up with eventual testing?

@dans...@gmail.com - Your security concerns are important and noted, I've 
flagged this for investigation as a priority

Cheers,
Warren
On Friday, 27 November 2020 at 10:57:09 UTC-8 dans...@gmail.com wrote:

> I'd suggest someone talk with professional DBAs for MSSQL.  In my work, 
> which is Federal government, the DBA told me that disconnecting from PSQL 
> as "appuser" and attempting to connect to database "postgres" in order to 
> create the test database violated FISMA.  I had to subclass my own 
> postgresql backend to create the test user while connected to my actual 
> database.  I would imagine that the original reasons for doing it this way 
> harkens back to a time when people used the same database server for 
> production, staging, qa, and integration, and some of these environments 
> may not have existed. While in some organizations we have only production, 
> staging/qa, and development/integration, I would guess there are few cases 
> where the same database server is used for production and the other 
> environments.
>
> On Fri, Nov 27, 2020 at 1:18 PM r...@whidbey.com  wrote:
>
>> Good news.  I've been using Django on MSSQL for about 8 years.  Couple of 
>> things:
>> - I've been using pyodbc, not django-mssql.  I note your messages from 
>> 2015 include it as a library to check for compatibility; what was the 
>> outcome of that?  Is it proposed that django-mssql become the 
>> "best-practices" interface for SQL Server?
>> - Couple of persistent pain points:
>>   1. Testing.  The Django code that sets up test databases fails with 
>> MSSQL, while it succeeds with PostGRE, MySQL and SQLite.  The issues seem 
>> to revolve around setting constraints as the tables are generated, rather 
>> than holding off and enabling the constraints at the end of the process.
>>   2. Stored Procedures.  These need to be loaded as an additional step in 
>> the creation of a database, and don't really have any representation in 
>> Django per se so migrations, etc don't generally have an idea that they 
>> exist.
>>
>> I'd be happy to test out what you come up with against our system.  It's 
>> currently serving a custom REST interface with 2-million-plus rows of 
>> transactions,with clients world-wide, along with a customer-facing web app, 
>> a staff site and a suite of Tableau reports.
>>
>> On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 5:40:18 PM UTC-8 vwa...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> Microsoft has now committed ongoing resources towards improving MSSQL 
>>> and Azure SQL support for Django. We're currently focused on internal 
>>> compliance and forking the ESSolutions django-mssql-backend 
>>> <https://github.com/ESSolutions/django-mssql-backend>, adding testing 
>>> pipelines, refactoring the Django DB engine naming convention, and 
>>> addressing current test suite errors.
>>>
>>> We'd love to hear from current mssql-backend maintainers as well as 
>>> mssql-backend users about the existing issues and feature requests that we 
>>> should be prioritizing.
>>>
>>> We looking forward to engaging the community and working towards MSSQL 
>>> as a first-class supported backend for Django.
>>>
>>> -Warren
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, 4 December 2019 at 07:05:25 UTC-8 Tim Allen wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Sean, just an update from what I know.
>>>>
>>>> We are still waiting for a reply from Microsoft. They're a large 
>>>> company, so understandably, it takes a little while.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> For now, if people need to get onto Django 2.2 for long term support 
>>>> (which will last until April, 2022), you can use this package:
>>>>
>>>> https://github.com/ESSolutions/django-mssql-backend I'v

Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Dan Davis]

I'd suggest someone talk with professional DBAs for MSSQL.  In my work,
which is Federal government, the DBA told me that disconnecting from PSQL
as "appuser" and attempting to connect to database "postgres" in order to
create the test database violated FISMA.  I had to subclass my own
postgresql backend to create the test user while connected to my actual
database.  I would imagine that the original reasons for doing it this way
harkens back to a time when people used the same database server for
production, staging, qa, and integration, and some of these environments
may not have existed. While in some organizations we have only production,
staging/qa, and development/integration, I would guess there are few cases
where the same database server is used for production and the other
environments.

On Fri, Nov 27, 2020 at 1:18 PM r...@whidbey.com  wrote:

> Good news.  I've been using Django on MSSQL for about 8 years.  Couple of
> things:
> - I've been using pyodbc, not django-mssql.  I note your messages from
> 2015 include it as a library to check for compatibility; what was the
> outcome of that?  Is it proposed that django-mssql become the
> "best-practices" interface for SQL Server?
> - Couple of persistent pain points:
>   1. Testing.  The Django code that sets up test databases fails with
> MSSQL, while it succeeds with PostGRE, MySQL and SQLite.  The issues seem
> to revolve around setting constraints as the tables are generated, rather
> than holding off and enabling the constraints at the end of the process.
>   2. Stored Procedures.  These need to be loaded as an additional step in
> the creation of a database, and don't really have any representation in
> Django per se so migrations, etc don't generally have an idea that they
> exist.
>
> I'd be happy to test out what you come up with against our system.  It's
> currently serving a custom REST interface with 2-million-plus rows of
> transactions,with clients world-wide, along with a customer-facing web app,
> a staff site and a suite of Tableau reports.
>
> On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 5:40:18 PM UTC-8 vwa...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Microsoft has now committed ongoing resources towards improving MSSQL and
>> Azure SQL support for Django. We're currently focused on internal
>> compliance and forking the ESSolutions django-mssql-backend
>> <https://github.com/ESSolutions/django-mssql-backend>, adding testing
>> pipelines, refactoring the Django DB engine naming convention, and
>> addressing current test suite errors.
>>
>> We'd love to hear from current mssql-backend maintainers as well as
>> mssql-backend users about the existing issues and feature requests that we
>> should be prioritizing.
>>
>> We looking forward to engaging the community and working towards MSSQL as
>> a first-class supported backend for Django.
>>
>> -Warren
>>
>> On Wednesday, 4 December 2019 at 07:05:25 UTC-8 Tim Allen wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Sean, just an update from what I know.
>>>
>>> We are still waiting for a reply from Microsoft. They're a large
>>> company, so understandably, it takes a little while.
>>>
>>>
>>> For now, if people need to get onto Django 2.2 for long term support
>>> (which will last until April, 2022), you can use this package:
>>>
>>> https://github.com/ESSolutions/django-mssql-backend I've been running
>>> it in production for months without incident. Of course, YMMV.
>>>
>>>
>>> If Microsoft and/or the DSF end up wanting to bring support under the
>>> Django umbrella, the django-mssql-backend repository is a possible
>>> starting point, IMHO.
>>>
>>> The django-mssql-backend is currently being developed and support for
>>> Django 3.0 is being worked on: ESSolutions/django-mssql-backend#18
>>> <https://github.com/ESSolutions/django-mssql-backend/issues/18>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>> Tim
>>>
>>> On Monday, December 2, 2019 at 11:03:56 AM UTC-5, Sean Martz wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> It seems like this issue has lost momentum. Is this still something
>>>> that's on anyones radar? It looks like django-pyodbc-azure is not actively
>>>> maintained anymore (it looks like Michaya has taken a hiatus from GitHub).
>>>> It also looks like there's a small community potentially popping up that's
>>>> interested in first class MSSQL Server support for Django. (
>>>> https://github.com/FlipperPA/django-mssql-backend). Is Microsoft still
>>>

Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[r...@whidbey.com]

Good news.  I've been using Django on MSSQL for about 8 years.  Couple of 
things:
- I've been using pyodbc, not django-mssql.  I note your messages from 2015 
include it as a library to check for compatibility; what was the outcome of 
that?  Is it proposed that django-mssql become the "best-practices" 
interface for SQL Server?
- Couple of persistent pain points:
  1. Testing.  The Django code that sets up test databases fails with 
MSSQL, while it succeeds with PostGRE, MySQL and SQLite.  The issues seem 
to revolve around setting constraints as the tables are generated, rather 
than holding off and enabling the constraints at the end of the process.
  2. Stored Procedures.  These need to be loaded as an additional step in 
the creation of a database, and don't really have any representation in 
Django per se so migrations, etc don't generally have an idea that they 
exist.

I'd be happy to test out what you come up with against our system.  It's 
currently serving a custom REST interface with 2-million-plus rows of 
transactions,with clients world-wide, along with a customer-facing web app, 
a staff site and a suite of Tableau reports.

On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 5:40:18 PM UTC-8 vwa...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Microsoft has now committed ongoing resources towards improving MSSQL and 
> Azure SQL support for Django. We're currently focused on internal 
> compliance and forking the ESSolutions django-mssql-backend 
> <https://github.com/ESSolutions/django-mssql-backend>, adding testing 
> pipelines, refactoring the Django DB engine naming convention, and 
> addressing current test suite errors.
>
> We'd love to hear from current mssql-backend maintainers as well as 
> mssql-backend users about the existing issues and feature requests that we 
> should be prioritizing.
>
> We looking forward to engaging the community and working towards MSSQL as 
> a first-class supported backend for Django.
>
> -Warren
>
> On Wednesday, 4 December 2019 at 07:05:25 UTC-8 Tim Allen wrote:
>
>> Hi Sean, just an update from what I know.
>>
>> We are still waiting for a reply from Microsoft. They're a large company, 
>> so understandably, it takes a little while.
>>
>>
>> For now, if people need to get onto Django 2.2 for long term support 
>> (which will last until April, 2022), you can use this package:
>>
>> https://github.com/ESSolutions/django-mssql-backend I've been running it 
>> in production for months without incident. Of course, YMMV.
>>
>>
>> If Microsoft and/or the DSF end up wanting to bring support under the 
>> Django umbrella, the django-mssql-backend repository is a possible 
>> starting point, IMHO.
>>
>> The django-mssql-backend is currently being developed and support for 
>> Django 3.0 is being worked on: ESSolutions/django-mssql-backend#18 
>> <https://github.com/ESSolutions/django-mssql-backend/issues/18>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> On Monday, December 2, 2019 at 11:03:56 AM UTC-5, Sean Martz wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> It seems like this issue has lost momentum. Is this still something 
>>> that's on anyones radar? It looks like django-pyodbc-azure is not actively 
>>> maintained anymore (it looks like Michaya has taken a hiatus from GitHub). 
>>> It also looks like there's a small community potentially popping up that's 
>>> interested in first class MSSQL Server support for Django. (
>>> https://github.com/FlipperPA/django-mssql-backend). Is Microsoft still 
>>> interested in committing resources to this goal? In my situation, it would 
>>> be a lot easier to sell stakeholders and decision makers on Django if it 
>>> had first class support for MSSQL Server.
>>>
>>> For what it's worth, Django-pyodbc-azure is still working well.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Sean
>>>
>>>

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Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Chris Wedgwood]

Hi Warren

This is excellent news!

Thanks
Chris

On Fri, 27 Nov 2020 at 01:40, Warren Chu  wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Microsoft has now committed ongoing resources towards improving MSSQL and
> Azure SQL support for Django. We're currently focused on internal
> compliance and forking the ESSolutions django-mssql-backend
> <https://github.com/ESSolutions/django-mssql-backend>, adding testing
> pipelines, refactoring the Django DB engine naming convention, and
> addressing current test suite errors.
>
> We'd love to hear from current mssql-backend maintainers as well as
> mssql-backend users about the existing issues and feature requests that we
> should be prioritizing.
>
> We looking forward to engaging the community and working towards MSSQL as
> a first-class supported backend for Django.
>
> -Warren
>
> On Wednesday, 4 December 2019 at 07:05:25 UTC-8 Tim Allen wrote:
>
>> Hi Sean, just an update from what I know.
>>
>> We are still waiting for a reply from Microsoft. They're a large company,
>> so understandably, it takes a little while.
>>
>>
>> For now, if people need to get onto Django 2.2 for long term support
>> (which will last until April, 2022), you can use this package:
>>
>> https://github.com/ESSolutions/django-mssql-backend I've been running it
>> in production for months without incident. Of course, YMMV.
>>
>>
>> If Microsoft and/or the DSF end up wanting to bring support under the
>> Django umbrella, the django-mssql-backend repository is a possible
>> starting point, IMHO.
>>
>> The django-mssql-backend is currently being developed and support for
>> Django 3.0 is being worked on: ESSolutions/django-mssql-backend#18
>> <https://github.com/ESSolutions/django-mssql-backend/issues/18>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> On Monday, December 2, 2019 at 11:03:56 AM UTC-5, Sean Martz wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> It seems like this issue has lost momentum. Is this still something
>>> that's on anyones radar? It looks like django-pyodbc-azure is not actively
>>> maintained anymore (it looks like Michaya has taken a hiatus from GitHub).
>>> It also looks like there's a small community potentially popping up that's
>>> interested in first class MSSQL Server support for Django. (
>>> https://github.com/FlipperPA/django-mssql-backend). Is Microsoft still
>>> interested in committing resources to this goal? In my situation, it would
>>> be a lot easier to sell stakeholders and decision makers on Django if it
>>> had first class support for MSSQL Server.
>>>
>>> For what it's worth, Django-pyodbc-azure is still working well.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Sean
>>>
>>> --
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Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Florian Apolloner]

Hi Warren,

given that the current django-mssql-backend maintainers might not be 
reading here I'd suggest you open a ticket on the repository to get in 
contact with them. It also might be a good idea to re-evaluate this thread 
(and possibly at Microsoft internally) to see why the last approaches 
failed and what can be done better this time. Personally I'd also suggest 
to work "openly" with the existing fork from ESSolutions and submit PRs 
there for testing pipelines etc (I assume you'd want to run them on azure 
or something and having that integration developed in the open would 
certainly provide good guidance for other projects). I am not sure what 
internal compliance entails, but please keep in mind that this is an open 
source project used already by people and compliance to some internal 
microsoft standards might not be something people care about or need.

I am excited to see your PRs against the repo.

Cheers,
Florian

On Friday, November 27, 2020 at 2:40:18 AM UTC+1 vwa...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Microsoft has now committed ongoing resources towards improving MSSQL and 
> Azure SQL support for Django. We're currently focused on internal 
> compliance and forking the ESSolutions django-mssql-backend 
> <https://github.com/ESSolutions/django-mssql-backend>, adding testing 
> pipelines, refactoring the Django DB engine naming convention, and 
> addressing current test suite errors.
>
> We'd love to hear from current mssql-backend maintainers as well as 
> mssql-backend users about the existing issues and feature requests that we 
> should be prioritizing.
>
> We looking forward to engaging the community and working towards MSSQL as 
> a first-class supported backend for Django.
>
> -Warren
>
> On Wednesday, 4 December 2019 at 07:05:25 UTC-8 Tim Allen wrote:
>
>> Hi Sean, just an update from what I know.
>>
>> We are still waiting for a reply from Microsoft. They're a large company, 
>> so understandably, it takes a little while.
>>
>>
>> For now, if people need to get onto Django 2.2 for long term support 
>> (which will last until April, 2022), you can use this package:
>>
>> https://github.com/ESSolutions/django-mssql-backend I've been running it 
>> in production for months without incident. Of course, YMMV.
>>
>>
>> If Microsoft and/or the DSF end up wanting to bring support under the 
>> Django umbrella, the django-mssql-backend repository is a possible 
>> starting point, IMHO.
>>
>> The django-mssql-backend is currently being developed and support for 
>> Django 3.0 is being worked on: ESSolutions/django-mssql-backend#18 
>> <https://github.com/ESSolutions/django-mssql-backend/issues/18>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> On Monday, December 2, 2019 at 11:03:56 AM UTC-5, Sean Martz wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> It seems like this issue has lost momentum. Is this still something 
>>> that's on anyones radar? It looks like django-pyodbc-azure is not actively 
>>> maintained anymore (it looks like Michaya has taken a hiatus from GitHub). 
>>> It also looks like there's a small community potentially popping up that's 
>>> interested in first class MSSQL Server support for Django. (
>>> https://github.com/FlipperPA/django-mssql-backend). Is Microsoft still 
>>> interested in committing resources to this goal? In my situation, it would 
>>> be a lot easier to sell stakeholders and decision makers on Django if it 
>>> had first class support for MSSQL Server.
>>>
>>> For what it's worth, Django-pyodbc-azure is still working well.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Sean
>>>
>>>

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Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Warren Chu]

Hi All,

Microsoft has now committed ongoing resources towards improving MSSQL and 
Azure SQL support for Django. We're currently focused on internal 
compliance and forking the ESSolutions django-mssql-backend 
<https://github.com/ESSolutions/django-mssql-backend>, adding testing 
pipelines, refactoring the Django DB engine naming convention, and 
addressing current test suite errors.

We'd love to hear from current mssql-backend maintainers as well as 
mssql-backend users about the existing issues and feature requests that we 
should be prioritizing.

We looking forward to engaging the community and working towards MSSQL as a 
first-class supported backend for Django.

-Warren

On Wednesday, 4 December 2019 at 07:05:25 UTC-8 Tim Allen wrote:

> Hi Sean, just an update from what I know.
>
> We are still waiting for a reply from Microsoft. They're a large company, 
> so understandably, it takes a little while.
>
>
> For now, if people need to get onto Django 2.2 for long term support 
> (which will last until April, 2022), you can use this package:
>
> https://github.com/ESSolutions/django-mssql-backend I've been running it 
> in production for months without incident. Of course, YMMV.
>
>
> If Microsoft and/or the DSF end up wanting to bring support under the 
> Django umbrella, the django-mssql-backend repository is a possible 
> starting point, IMHO.
>
> The django-mssql-backend is currently being developed and support for 
> Django 3.0 is being worked on: ESSolutions/django-mssql-backend#18 
> <https://github.com/ESSolutions/django-mssql-backend/issues/18>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Tim
>
> On Monday, December 2, 2019 at 11:03:56 AM UTC-5, Sean Martz wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> It seems like this issue has lost momentum. Is this still something 
>> that's on anyones radar? It looks like django-pyodbc-azure is not actively 
>> maintained anymore (it looks like Michaya has taken a hiatus from GitHub). 
>> It also looks like there's a small community potentially popping up that's 
>> interested in first class MSSQL Server support for Django. (
>> https://github.com/FlipperPA/django-mssql-backend). Is Microsoft still 
>> interested in committing resources to this goal? In my situation, it would 
>> be a lot easier to sell stakeholders and decision makers on Django if it 
>> had first class support for MSSQL Server.
>>
>> For what it's worth, Django-pyodbc-azure is still working well.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Sean
>>
>>

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Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Tim Allen]

Hi Sean, just an update from what I know.

We are still waiting for a reply from Microsoft. They're a large company, 
so understandably, it takes a little while.


For now, if people need to get onto Django 2.2 for long term support (which 
will last until April, 2022), you can use this package:

https://github.com/ESSolutions/django-mssql-backend I've been running it in 
production for months without incident. Of course, YMMV.


If Microsoft and/or the DSF end up wanting to bring support under the 
Django umbrella, the django-mssql-backend repository is a possible starting 
point, IMHO.

The django-mssql-backend is currently being developed and support for 
Django 3.0 is being worked on: ESSolutions/django-mssql-backend#18 



Regards,


Tim

On Monday, December 2, 2019 at 11:03:56 AM UTC-5, Sean Martz wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> It seems like this issue has lost momentum. Is this still something that's 
> on anyones radar? It looks like django-pyodbc-azure is not actively 
> maintained anymore (it looks like Michaya has taken a hiatus from GitHub). 
> It also looks like there's a small community potentially popping up that's 
> interested in first class MSSQL Server support for Django. (
> https://github.com/FlipperPA/django-mssql-backend). Is Microsoft still 
> interested in committing resources to this goal? In my situation, it would 
> be a lot easier to sell stakeholders and decision makers on Django if it 
> had first class support for MSSQL Server.
>
> For what it's worth, Django-pyodbc-azure is still working well.
>
> Cheers,
> Sean
>
>

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Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Sean Martz]

Hello,

It seems like this issue has lost momentum. Is this still something that's 
on anyones radar? It looks like django-pyodbc-azure is not actively 
maintained anymore (it looks like Michaya has taken a hiatus from GitHub). 
It also looks like there's a small community potentially popping up that's 
interested in first class MSSQL Server support for Django. 
(https://github.com/FlipperPA/django-mssql-backend). Is Microsoft still 
interested in committing resources to this goal? In my situation, it would 
be a lot easier to sell stakeholders and decision makers on Django if it 
had first class support for MSSQL Server.

For what it's worth, Django-pyodbc-azure is still working well.

Cheers,
Sean

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Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Tim Allen]

Hi Kunal, welcome to the Django community! django-pyodbc-azure is the best 
maintained SQL Server engine I've found, and it typically gets updated a 
little more quickly than this. However, Michaya who maintains the package 
has been extremely busy lately, and said it will take him a few more weeks 
to get it done. If you're starting a new project, could you develop on 
SQLite for now and then swap in django-pyodbc-azure when it is ready?

Regards,

Tim

On Thursday, January 18, 2018 at 8:39:42 AM UTC-5, 
kunal...@williamoneilindia.com wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I am new to Django, but planning to use Django 2.0 for my newest project. 
> I am using MSSQL db and hence facing issues with it.
>
> Anyone working on getting an MSSQL backend that works with Django 2.0? 
> (Couldn't find one that's up to date including django-pyodbc-azure).
>
>>
>>>

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Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[kunal . kabra]

Hi,

I am new to Django, but planning to use Django 2.0 for my newest project. I 
am using MSSQL db and hence facing issues with it.

Anyone working on getting an MSSQL backend that works with Django 2.0? 
(Couldn't find one that's up to date including django-pyodbc-azure).

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Kunal

On Saturday, April 29, 2017 at 3:31:33 AM UTC+5:30, Michael Manfre wrote:
>
> Quick update of the current status of things related to MSSQL. The most 
> actively maintained MSSQL backend that I'm aware of is django-pyodbc-azure 
> (also works with standalone SQL Server). Michiya has been doing an amazing 
> job supporting that backend. There has been no real movement toward there 
> being an officially supported MSSQL backend for Django. Microsoft has 
> continued to be involved with Django and myself related to making a better 
> MSSQL experience for us.
>
> Regards,
> Michael Manfre
>
> On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 3:55 PM  wrote:
>
>> I wonder if there have been any updates on MS support for a 
>> official/supported MS SQL Django driver? Did the offered engineering effort 
>> from MS ever come through? Given the availability of of MS SQL on Linux, as 
>> well as support for Django in Visual Studio, it would be great if this came 
>> to fruition.
>> Explicit support for Django with IronPython would also be nice, if MS 
>> would really want to take their Django support to the next level...
>>
>>
>> On Monday, March 7, 2016 at 5:37:06 PM UTC-5, Meet Bhagdev wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> On interacting with several Django developers and committers, one of the 
>>> questions often came up, can I use SQL Server on non Window OS's? I wanted 
>>> to share that today Microsoft announced SQL Server availibility on Linux - 
>>> https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2016/03/07/announcing-sql-server-on-linux/
>>> . 
>>>
>>> While there is still work needed to strengthen the MSSQL-Django story, 
>>> we hope this aids more Linux developers to give SQL Server a shot. Let me 
>>> know of your thoughts and questions :)
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Meet
>>>
>>> On Monday, February 22, 2016 at 4:54:38 PM UTC-8, Vin Yu wrote:

 Hey Folks, 

 My name is Vin and I work with Meet in the Microsoft SQL Server team. 
 Just wanted to let you all know we are still looking into how we can 
 better 
 improve and support MSSQL for the Django framework. We’ll continue to sync 
 with Michael and let you know of any updates soon. 

 Christiano and Tim - thanks for sharing your interest and sharing how 
 you are using Django with MSSQL. It's great to learn from your scenarios. 

 If you have any concerns, questions or comments feel free to reach out 
 to me at vinsonyu[at]microsoft.com
>>>
>>> -- 
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>> .
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/8258f170-8f10-45fc-a1d3-9551efca6d1c%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>

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Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Dmitriy Sintsov]

Microsoft probably will take Django support to the next level with Windows 
Subsystem for Linux. It's still beta but a very promising one. Not only it 
should make compiling Python module binaries (like lxml) much easier, it 
also fixes binary / nix specific support of node.js / Ruby packages.

On Friday, April 28, 2017 at 10:55:26 PM UTC+3, uri...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> I wonder if there have been any updates on MS support for a 
> official/supported MS SQL Django driver? Did the offered engineering effort 
> from MS ever come through? Given the availability of of MS SQL on Linux, as 
> well as support for Django in Visual Studio, it would be great if this came 
> to fruition.
> Explicit support for Django with IronPython would also be nice, if MS 
> would really want to take their Django support to the next level...
>
> On Monday, March 7, 2016 at 5:37:06 PM UTC-5, Meet Bhagdev wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> On interacting with several Django developers and committers, one of the 
>> questions often came up, can I use SQL Server on non Window OS's? I wanted 
>> to share that today Microsoft announced SQL Server availibility on Linux - 
>> https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2016/03/07/announcing-sql-server-on-linux/
>> . 
>>
>> While there is still work needed to strengthen the MSSQL-Django story, we 
>> hope this aids more Linux developers to give SQL Server a shot. Let me know 
>> of your thoughts and questions :)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Meet
>>
>> On Monday, February 22, 2016 at 4:54:38 PM UTC-8, Vin Yu wrote:
>>>
>>> Hey Folks, 
>>>
>>> My name is Vin and I work with Meet in the Microsoft SQL Server team. 
>>> Just wanted to let you all know we are still looking into how we can better 
>>> improve and support MSSQL for the Django framework. We’ll continue to sync 
>>> with Michael and let you know of any updates soon. 
>>>
>>> Christiano and Tim - thanks for sharing your interest and sharing how 
>>> you are using Django with MSSQL. It's great to learn from your scenarios. 
>>>
>>> If you have any concerns, questions or comments feel free to reach out 
>>> to me at vinsonyu[at]microsoft.com
>>
>>

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Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Michael Manfre]

Quick update of the current status of things related to MSSQL. The most
actively maintained MSSQL backend that I'm aware of is django-pyodbc-azure
(also works with standalone SQL Server). Michiya has been doing an amazing
job supporting that backend. There has been no real movement toward there
being an officially supported MSSQL backend for Django. Microsoft has
continued to be involved with Django and myself related to making a better
MSSQL experience for us.

Regards,
Michael Manfre

On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 3:55 PM  wrote:

> I wonder if there have been any updates on MS support for a
> official/supported MS SQL Django driver? Did the offered engineering effort
> from MS ever come through? Given the availability of of MS SQL on Linux, as
> well as support for Django in Visual Studio, it would be great if this came
> to fruition.
> Explicit support for Django with IronPython would also be nice, if MS
> would really want to take their Django support to the next level...
>
>
> On Monday, March 7, 2016 at 5:37:06 PM UTC-5, Meet Bhagdev wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> On interacting with several Django developers and committers, one of the
>> questions often came up, can I use SQL Server on non Window OS's? I wanted
>> to share that today Microsoft announced SQL Server availibility on Linux -
>> https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2016/03/07/announcing-sql-server-on-linux/
>> .
>>
>> While there is still work needed to strengthen the MSSQL-Django story, we
>> hope this aids more Linux developers to give SQL Server a shot. Let me know
>> of your thoughts and questions :)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Meet
>>
>> On Monday, February 22, 2016 at 4:54:38 PM UTC-8, Vin Yu wrote:
>>>
>>> Hey Folks,
>>>
>>> My name is Vin and I work with Meet in the Microsoft SQL Server team.
>>> Just wanted to let you all know we are still looking into how we can better
>>> improve and support MSSQL for the Django framework. We’ll continue to sync
>>> with Michael and let you know of any updates soon.
>>>
>>> Christiano and Tim - thanks for sharing your interest and sharing how
>>> you are using Django with MSSQL. It's great to learn from your scenarios.
>>>
>>> If you have any concerns, questions or comments feel free to reach out
>>> to me at vinsonyu[at]microsoft.com
>>
>> --
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> 
> .
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

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Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[urijah]

I wonder if there have been any updates on MS support for a 
official/supported MS SQL Django driver? Did the offered engineering effort 
from MS ever come through? Given the availability of of MS SQL on Linux, as 
well as support for Django in Visual Studio, it would be great if this came 
to fruition.
Explicit support for Django with IronPython would also be nice, if MS would 
really want to take their Django support to the next level...

On Monday, March 7, 2016 at 5:37:06 PM UTC-5, Meet Bhagdev wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> On interacting with several Django developers and committers, one of the 
> questions often came up, can I use SQL Server on non Window OS's? I wanted 
> to share that today Microsoft announced SQL Server availibility on Linux - 
> https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2016/03/07/announcing-sql-server-on-linux/
> . 
>
> While there is still work needed to strengthen the MSSQL-Django story, we 
> hope this aids more Linux developers to give SQL Server a shot. Let me know 
> of your thoughts and questions :)
>
> Cheers,
> Meet
>
> On Monday, February 22, 2016 at 4:54:38 PM UTC-8, Vin Yu wrote:
>>
>> Hey Folks, 
>>
>> My name is Vin and I work with Meet in the Microsoft SQL Server team. 
>> Just wanted to let you all know we are still looking into how we can better 
>> improve and support MSSQL for the Django framework. We’ll continue to sync 
>> with Michael and let you know of any updates soon. 
>>
>> Christiano and Tim - thanks for sharing your interest and sharing how you 
>> are using Django with MSSQL. It's great to learn from your scenarios. 
>>
>> If you have any concerns, questions or comments feel free to reach out to 
>> me at vinsonyu[at]microsoft.com
>
>

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Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Tim Allen]

If people are planning on being in Philadelphia around the time of 
DjangoCon this summer (July 17th - 22nd), I'd be happy to arrange space for 
a meeting / code sprint and provide food. Django sprints are on July 21st / 
22nd which would be ideal; or the weekend afterwards. I'm on the DjangoCon 
organization team and arranging for the space for the conference already, 
so I'd be happy to help out with logistics.

Just a thought, since several of us may be planning on being in Philly 
already. The Wharton School (full disclosure: I'm an employee) is hosting 
DjangoCon and runs Django with SQL Server, so I'm sure we'd be amenable to 
helping out where we can. More details: https://2016.djangocon.us

Both Tims on this thread are near Philadephia. :) Regards,

Tim A.

On Tuesday, March 22, 2016 at 6:52:08 PM UTC-4, Vin Yu wrote:
>
> Hey Tim, 
>
> We are continuing to follow up with Michael and have reached out to 
> Michiya as well. We have not abandoned the idea of providing engineering 
> resources either, and are still working out the logistics with Michael as 
> he will help direct our efforts. We are syncing again in mid-April to 
> discuss the next steps; we are hoping to start identifying a plan, come up 
> with a proposal and start working on this shortly after. 
>
>
> Regards,
> Vin
>
>
>  
>
> On Friday, 11 March 2016 10:54:01 UTC-8, Tim Graham wrote:
>>
>> Yes, I wonder if Microsoft abandoned the idea of providing engineering 
>> resources to help out projects like django-mssql or if things are just 
>> moving really slowly? I'm not aware of any follow up related to that idea 
>> since Michael, Michiya, and I visited Microsoft in October.
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 9, 2016 at 9:43:16 PM UTC-5, Cristiano Coelho wrote:
>>>
>>> "Improve documentation/examples [decrease confusion]: There's already so 
>>> much awesome content out there on getting started with Django (but not many 
>>> are referencing MSSQL as the db of choice or why MSSQL is a great option)."
>>>
>>> I wouldn't think of MSSQL as a great option for django at least until it 
>>> is supported natively and not through 3rd party apps which are always 
>>> behind django updates.
>>>
>>> El martes, 8 de marzo de 2016, 23:20:58 (UTC-3), Vin Yu escribió:

 Hey Tim,

 We've gotten lots of questions about the tools when we announced SQL 
 Server on Linux. I am curious; what are the DB management/development 
 tasks 
 that are being performed by your coworkers? What are they using SSMS for? 
 I 
 am interested in learning more. [Perhaps we can follow up by email as this 
 seens off-topic here :) ] 

 In terms of strengthening the story for MSSQL-Django, I think there is 
 a little bit of both difficulty and confusion over options; here are some 
 ideas that we are working on and could solve these issues:

- Improve documentation/examples [decrease confusion]: There's 
already so much awesome content out there on getting started with 
 Django 
(but not many are referencing MSSQL as the db of choice or why MSSQL is 
 a 
great option).
- Improve getting started experience [decrease difficulty]: Getting 
MSSQL for development (free and easy/fast set up) is hard today;this is 
 on 
MSFT to improve this experience.

 We want to help provide better developer experiences for those who want 
 to create new Django apps + MSSQL databases and if MSSQL were in the core, 
 it would definitely help with that. This would increase usage and is 
 something we are striving to achieve. We will continue to work with the 
 community to make this happen.  

 =) , 
 Vin


 On Tuesday, 8 March 2016 10:13:34 UTC-8, Tim Allen wrote:
>
> [slightly off-topic] I'm wondering if this will extend to SQL Server 
> Management Studio. While I'm mainly a command line basher, many of 
> coworkers are married to the GUI. I've found SSMS blows the competition 
> out 
> of the water when it comes to DB management GUIs. I'm wondering if this 
> means SSMS will run on Linux (or Mac) eventually.
>
> This is certainly very big news. I wouldn't be shocked to some day see 
> Windows itself running on the Linux Kernel.
>
> Meet, how can we help strengthen the story for MSSQL-Django? It seems 
> we have a chicken and egg problem here. A very small amount of Django 
> sites 
> use SQL Server, but is that because of the difficulty in the available 
> stack and confusion over options? Would usage increase if provided in 
> core?
>
> On Monday, March 7, 2016 at 6:03:29 PM UTC-5, Josh Smeaton wrote:
>>
>> Wow, that's really great news! I haven't used mssql for a number of 
>> years but it was always very nice to work with. Having it available to 
>> run 
>> on linux will make it much easier for the Django community to test 
>> 

Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Vin Yu]

Hey Tim, 

We are continuing to follow up with Michael and have reached out to Michiya 
as well. We have not abandoned the idea of providing engineering resources 
either, and are still working out the logistics with Michael as he will 
help direct our efforts. We are syncing again in mid-April to discuss the 
next steps; we are hoping to start identifying a plan, come up with a 
proposal and start working on this shortly after. 


Regards,
Vin


 

On Friday, 11 March 2016 10:54:01 UTC-8, Tim Graham wrote:
>
> Yes, I wonder if Microsoft abandoned the idea of providing engineering 
> resources to help out projects like django-mssql or if things are just 
> moving really slowly? I'm not aware of any follow up related to that idea 
> since Michael, Michiya, and I visited Microsoft in October.
>
> On Wednesday, March 9, 2016 at 9:43:16 PM UTC-5, Cristiano Coelho wrote:
>>
>> "Improve documentation/examples [decrease confusion]: There's already so 
>> much awesome content out there on getting started with Django (but not many 
>> are referencing MSSQL as the db of choice or why MSSQL is a great option)."
>>
>> I wouldn't think of MSSQL as a great option for django at least until it 
>> is supported natively and not through 3rd party apps which are always 
>> behind django updates.
>>
>> El martes, 8 de marzo de 2016, 23:20:58 (UTC-3), Vin Yu escribió:
>>>
>>> Hey Tim,
>>>
>>> We've gotten lots of questions about the tools when we announced SQL 
>>> Server on Linux. I am curious; what are the DB management/development tasks 
>>> that are being performed by your coworkers? What are they using SSMS for? I 
>>> am interested in learning more. [Perhaps we can follow up by email as this 
>>> seens off-topic here :) ] 
>>>
>>> In terms of strengthening the story for MSSQL-Django, I think there is a 
>>> little bit of both difficulty and confusion over options; here are some 
>>> ideas that we are working on and could solve these issues:
>>>
>>>- Improve documentation/examples [decrease confusion]: There's 
>>>already so much awesome content out there on getting started with Django 
>>>(but not many are referencing MSSQL as the db of choice or why MSSQL is 
>>> a 
>>>great option).
>>>- Improve getting started experience [decrease difficulty]: Getting 
>>>MSSQL for development (free and easy/fast set up) is hard today;this is 
>>> on 
>>>MSFT to improve this experience.
>>>
>>> We want to help provide better developer experiences for those who want 
>>> to create new Django apps + MSSQL databases and if MSSQL were in the core, 
>>> it would definitely help with that. This would increase usage and is 
>>> something we are striving to achieve. We will continue to work with the 
>>> community to make this happen.  
>>>
>>> =) , 
>>> Vin
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, 8 March 2016 10:13:34 UTC-8, Tim Allen wrote:

 [slightly off-topic] I'm wondering if this will extend to SQL Server 
 Management Studio. While I'm mainly a command line basher, many of 
 coworkers are married to the GUI. I've found SSMS blows the competition 
 out 
 of the water when it comes to DB management GUIs. I'm wondering if this 
 means SSMS will run on Linux (or Mac) eventually.

 This is certainly very big news. I wouldn't be shocked to some day see 
 Windows itself running on the Linux Kernel.

 Meet, how can we help strengthen the story for MSSQL-Django? It seems 
 we have a chicken and egg problem here. A very small amount of Django 
 sites 
 use SQL Server, but is that because of the difficulty in the available 
 stack and confusion over options? Would usage increase if provided in core?

 On Monday, March 7, 2016 at 6:03:29 PM UTC-5, Josh Smeaton wrote:
>
> Wow, that's really great news! I haven't used mssql for a number of 
> years but it was always very nice to work with. Having it available to 
> run 
> on linux will make it much easier for the Django community to test 
> against 
> mssql, provided we're able to get/develop an appropriate driver and 
> backend. 
>
> Cheers
>
> On Tuesday, 8 March 2016 09:37:06 UTC+11, Meet Bhagdev wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> On interacting with several Django developers and committers, one of 
>> the questions often came up, can I use SQL Server on non Window OS's? I 
>> wanted to share that today Microsoft announced SQL Server availibility 
>> on 
>> Linux - 
>> https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2016/03/07/announcing-sql-server-on-linux/
>> . 
>>
>> While there is still work needed to strengthen the MSSQL-Django 
>> story, we hope this aids more Linux developers to give SQL Server a 
>> shot. 
>> Let me know of your thoughts and questions :)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Meet
>>
>> On Monday, February 22, 2016 at 4:54:38 PM UTC-8, Vin Yu wrote:
>>>
>>> Hey Folks, 
>>>
>>> My name is 

Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Tim Graham]

Yes, I wonder if Microsoft abandoned the idea of providing engineering 
resources to help out projects like django-mssql or if things are just 
moving really slowly? I'm not aware of any follow up related to that idea 
since Michael, Michiya, and I visited Microsoft in October.

On Wednesday, March 9, 2016 at 9:43:16 PM UTC-5, Cristiano Coelho wrote:
>
> "Improve documentation/examples [decrease confusion]: There's already so 
> much awesome content out there on getting started with Django (but not many 
> are referencing MSSQL as the db of choice or why MSSQL is a great option)."
>
> I wouldn't think of MSSQL as a great option for django at least until it 
> is supported natively and not through 3rd party apps which are always 
> behind django updates.
>
> El martes, 8 de marzo de 2016, 23:20:58 (UTC-3), Vin Yu escribió:
>>
>> Hey Tim,
>>
>> We've gotten lots of questions about the tools when we announced SQL 
>> Server on Linux. I am curious; what are the DB management/development tasks 
>> that are being performed by your coworkers? What are they using SSMS for? I 
>> am interested in learning more. [Perhaps we can follow up by email as this 
>> seens off-topic here :) ] 
>>
>> In terms of strengthening the story for MSSQL-Django, I think there is a 
>> little bit of both difficulty and confusion over options; here are some 
>> ideas that we are working on and could solve these issues:
>>
>>- Improve documentation/examples [decrease confusion]: There's 
>>already so much awesome content out there on getting started with Django 
>>(but not many are referencing MSSQL as the db of choice or why MSSQL is a 
>>great option).
>>- Improve getting started experience [decrease difficulty]: Getting 
>>MSSQL for development (free and easy/fast set up) is hard today;this is 
>> on 
>>MSFT to improve this experience.
>>
>> We want to help provide better developer experiences for those who want 
>> to create new Django apps + MSSQL databases and if MSSQL were in the core, 
>> it would definitely help with that. This would increase usage and is 
>> something we are striving to achieve. We will continue to work with the 
>> community to make this happen.  
>>
>> =) , 
>> Vin
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, 8 March 2016 10:13:34 UTC-8, Tim Allen wrote:
>>>
>>> [slightly off-topic] I'm wondering if this will extend to SQL Server 
>>> Management Studio. While I'm mainly a command line basher, many of 
>>> coworkers are married to the GUI. I've found SSMS blows the competition out 
>>> of the water when it comes to DB management GUIs. I'm wondering if this 
>>> means SSMS will run on Linux (or Mac) eventually.
>>>
>>> This is certainly very big news. I wouldn't be shocked to some day see 
>>> Windows itself running on the Linux Kernel.
>>>
>>> Meet, how can we help strengthen the story for MSSQL-Django? It seems we 
>>> have a chicken and egg problem here. A very small amount of Django sites 
>>> use SQL Server, but is that because of the difficulty in the available 
>>> stack and confusion over options? Would usage increase if provided in core?
>>>
>>> On Monday, March 7, 2016 at 6:03:29 PM UTC-5, Josh Smeaton wrote:

 Wow, that's really great news! I haven't used mssql for a number of 
 years but it was always very nice to work with. Having it available to run 
 on linux will make it much easier for the Django community to test against 
 mssql, provided we're able to get/develop an appropriate driver and 
 backend. 

 Cheers

 On Tuesday, 8 March 2016 09:37:06 UTC+11, Meet Bhagdev wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> On interacting with several Django developers and committers, one of 
> the questions often came up, can I use SQL Server on non Window OS's? I 
> wanted to share that today Microsoft announced SQL Server availibility on 
> Linux - 
> https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2016/03/07/announcing-sql-server-on-linux/
> . 
>
> While there is still work needed to strengthen the MSSQL-Django story, 
> we hope this aids more Linux developers to give SQL Server a shot. Let me 
> know of your thoughts and questions :)
>
> Cheers,
> Meet
>
> On Monday, February 22, 2016 at 4:54:38 PM UTC-8, Vin Yu wrote:
>>
>> Hey Folks, 
>>
>> My name is Vin and I work with Meet in the Microsoft SQL Server team. 
>> Just wanted to let you all know we are still looking into how we can 
>> better 
>> improve and support MSSQL for the Django framework. We’ll continue to 
>> sync 
>> with Michael and let you know of any updates soon. 
>>
>> Christiano and Tim - thanks for sharing your interest and sharing how 
>> you are using Django with MSSQL. It's great to learn from your 
>> scenarios. 
>>
>> If you have any concerns, questions or comments feel free to reach 
>> out to me at vinsonyu[at]microsoft.com
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are 

Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Cristiano Coelho]

"Improve documentation/examples [decrease confusion]: There's already so 
much awesome content out there on getting started with Django (but not many 
are referencing MSSQL as the db of choice or why MSSQL is a great option)."

I wouldn't think of MSSQL as a great option for django at least until it is 
supported natively and not through 3rd party apps which are always behind 
django updates.

El martes, 8 de marzo de 2016, 23:20:58 (UTC-3), Vin Yu escribió:
>
> Hey Tim,
>
> We've gotten lots of questions about the tools when we announced SQL 
> Server on Linux. I am curious; what are the DB management/development tasks 
> that are being performed by your coworkers? What are they using SSMS for? I 
> am interested in learning more. [Perhaps we can follow up by email as this 
> seens off-topic here :) ] 
>
> In terms of strengthening the story for MSSQL-Django, I think there is a 
> little bit of both difficulty and confusion over options; here are some 
> ideas that we are working on and could solve these issues:
>
>- Improve documentation/examples [decrease confusion]: There's already 
>so much awesome content out there on getting started with Django (but not 
>many are referencing MSSQL as the db of choice or why MSSQL is a great 
>option).
>- Improve getting started experience [decrease difficulty]: Getting 
>MSSQL for development (free and easy/fast set up) is hard today;this is on 
>MSFT to improve this experience.
>
> We want to help provide better developer experiences for those who want to 
> create new Django apps + MSSQL databases and if MSSQL were in the core, it 
> would definitely help with that. This would increase usage and is something 
> we are striving to achieve. We will continue to work with the community to 
> make this happen.  
>
> =) , 
> Vin
>
>
> On Tuesday, 8 March 2016 10:13:34 UTC-8, Tim Allen wrote:
>>
>> [slightly off-topic] I'm wondering if this will extend to SQL Server 
>> Management Studio. While I'm mainly a command line basher, many of 
>> coworkers are married to the GUI. I've found SSMS blows the competition out 
>> of the water when it comes to DB management GUIs. I'm wondering if this 
>> means SSMS will run on Linux (or Mac) eventually.
>>
>> This is certainly very big news. I wouldn't be shocked to some day see 
>> Windows itself running on the Linux Kernel.
>>
>> Meet, how can we help strengthen the story for MSSQL-Django? It seems we 
>> have a chicken and egg problem here. A very small amount of Django sites 
>> use SQL Server, but is that because of the difficulty in the available 
>> stack and confusion over options? Would usage increase if provided in core?
>>
>> On Monday, March 7, 2016 at 6:03:29 PM UTC-5, Josh Smeaton wrote:
>>>
>>> Wow, that's really great news! I haven't used mssql for a number of 
>>> years but it was always very nice to work with. Having it available to run 
>>> on linux will make it much easier for the Django community to test against 
>>> mssql, provided we're able to get/develop an appropriate driver and 
>>> backend. 
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, 8 March 2016 09:37:06 UTC+11, Meet Bhagdev wrote:

 Hi all,

 On interacting with several Django developers and committers, one of 
 the questions often came up, can I use SQL Server on non Window OS's? I 
 wanted to share that today Microsoft announced SQL Server availibility on 
 Linux - 
 https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2016/03/07/announcing-sql-server-on-linux/
 . 

 While there is still work needed to strengthen the MSSQL-Django story, 
 we hope this aids more Linux developers to give SQL Server a shot. Let me 
 know of your thoughts and questions :)

 Cheers,
 Meet

 On Monday, February 22, 2016 at 4:54:38 PM UTC-8, Vin Yu wrote:
>
> Hey Folks, 
>
> My name is Vin and I work with Meet in the Microsoft SQL Server team. 
> Just wanted to let you all know we are still looking into how we can 
> better 
> improve and support MSSQL for the Django framework. We’ll continue to 
> sync 
> with Michael and let you know of any updates soon. 
>
> Christiano and Tim - thanks for sharing your interest and sharing how 
> you are using Django with MSSQL. It's great to learn from your scenarios. 
>
> If you have any concerns, questions or comments feel free to reach out 
> to me at vinsonyu[at]microsoft.com



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Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Vin Yu]

Hey Tim,

We've gotten lots of questions about the tools when we announced SQL Server 
on Linux. I am curious; what are the DB management/development tasks that 
are being performed by your coworkers? What are they using SSMS for? I am 
interested in learning more. [Perhaps we can follow up by email as this 
seens off-topic here :) ] 

In terms of strengthening the story for MSSQL-Django, I think there is a 
little bit of both difficulty and confusion over options; here are some 
ideas that we are working on and could solve these issues:

   - Improve documentation/examples [decrease confusion]: There's already 
   so much awesome content out there on getting started with Django (but not 
   many are referencing MSSQL as the db of choice or why MSSQL is a great 
   option).
   - Improve getting started experience [decrease difficulty]: Getting 
   MSSQL for development (free and easy/fast set up) is hard today;this is on 
   MSFT to improve this experience.

We want to help provide better developer experiences for those who want to 
create new Django apps + MSSQL databases and if MSSQL were in the core, it 
would definitely help with that. This would increase usage and is something 
we are striving to achieve. We will continue to work with the community to 
make this happen.  

=) , 
Vin


On Tuesday, 8 March 2016 10:13:34 UTC-8, Tim Allen wrote:
>
> [slightly off-topic] I'm wondering if this will extend to SQL Server 
> Management Studio. While I'm mainly a command line basher, many of 
> coworkers are married to the GUI. I've found SSMS blows the competition out 
> of the water when it comes to DB management GUIs. I'm wondering if this 
> means SSMS will run on Linux (or Mac) eventually.
>
> This is certainly very big news. I wouldn't be shocked to some day see 
> Windows itself running on the Linux Kernel.
>
> Meet, how can we help strengthen the story for MSSQL-Django? It seems we 
> have a chicken and egg problem here. A very small amount of Django sites 
> use SQL Server, but is that because of the difficulty in the available 
> stack and confusion over options? Would usage increase if provided in core?
>
> On Monday, March 7, 2016 at 6:03:29 PM UTC-5, Josh Smeaton wrote:
>>
>> Wow, that's really great news! I haven't used mssql for a number of years 
>> but it was always very nice to work with. Having it available to run on 
>> linux will make it much easier for the Django community to test against 
>> mssql, provided we're able to get/develop an appropriate driver and 
>> backend. 
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> On Tuesday, 8 March 2016 09:37:06 UTC+11, Meet Bhagdev wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> On interacting with several Django developers and committers, one of the 
>>> questions often came up, can I use SQL Server on non Window OS's? I wanted 
>>> to share that today Microsoft announced SQL Server availibility on Linux - 
>>> https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2016/03/07/announcing-sql-server-on-linux/
>>> . 
>>>
>>> While there is still work needed to strengthen the MSSQL-Django story, 
>>> we hope this aids more Linux developers to give SQL Server a shot. Let me 
>>> know of your thoughts and questions :)
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Meet
>>>
>>> On Monday, February 22, 2016 at 4:54:38 PM UTC-8, Vin Yu wrote:

 Hey Folks, 

 My name is Vin and I work with Meet in the Microsoft SQL Server team. 
 Just wanted to let you all know we are still looking into how we can 
 better 
 improve and support MSSQL for the Django framework. We’ll continue to sync 
 with Michael and let you know of any updates soon. 

 Christiano and Tim - thanks for sharing your interest and sharing how 
 you are using Django with MSSQL. It's great to learn from your scenarios. 

 If you have any concerns, questions or comments feel free to reach out 
 to me at vinsonyu[at]microsoft.com
>>>
>>>

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Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Tim Allen]

[slightly off-topic] I'm wondering if this will extend to SQL Server 
Management Studio. While I'm mainly a command line basher, many of 
coworkers are married to the GUI. I've found SSMS blows the competition out 
of the water when it comes to DB management GUIs. I'm wondering if this 
means SSMS will run on Linux (or Mac) eventually.

This is certainly very big news. I wouldn't be shocked to some day see 
Windows itself running on the Linux Kernel.

Meet, how can we help strengthen the story for MSSQL-Django? It seems we 
have a chicken and egg problem here. A very small amount of Django sites 
use SQL Server, but is that because of the difficulty in the available 
stack and confusion over options? Would usage increase if provided in core?

On Monday, March 7, 2016 at 6:03:29 PM UTC-5, Josh Smeaton wrote:
>
> Wow, that's really great news! I haven't used mssql for a number of years 
> but it was always very nice to work with. Having it available to run on 
> linux will make it much easier for the Django community to test against 
> mssql, provided we're able to get/develop an appropriate driver and 
> backend. 
>
> Cheers
>
> On Tuesday, 8 March 2016 09:37:06 UTC+11, Meet Bhagdev wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> On interacting with several Django developers and committers, one of the 
>> questions often came up, can I use SQL Server on non Window OS's? I wanted 
>> to share that today Microsoft announced SQL Server availibility on Linux - 
>> https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2016/03/07/announcing-sql-server-on-linux/
>> . 
>>
>> While there is still work needed to strengthen the MSSQL-Django story, we 
>> hope this aids more Linux developers to give SQL Server a shot. Let me know 
>> of your thoughts and questions :)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Meet
>>
>> On Monday, February 22, 2016 at 4:54:38 PM UTC-8, Vin Yu wrote:
>>>
>>> Hey Folks, 
>>>
>>> My name is Vin and I work with Meet in the Microsoft SQL Server team. 
>>> Just wanted to let you all know we are still looking into how we can better 
>>> improve and support MSSQL for the Django framework. We’ll continue to sync 
>>> with Michael and let you know of any updates soon. 
>>>
>>> Christiano and Tim - thanks for sharing your interest and sharing how 
>>> you are using Django with MSSQL. It's great to learn from your scenarios. 
>>>
>>> If you have any concerns, questions or comments feel free to reach out 
>>> to me at vinsonyu[at]microsoft.com
>>
>>

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Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Josh Smeaton]

Wow, that's really great news! I haven't used mssql for a number of years 
but it was always very nice to work with. Having it available to run on 
linux will make it much easier for the Django community to test against 
mssql, provided we're able to get/develop an appropriate driver and 
backend. 

Cheers

On Tuesday, 8 March 2016 09:37:06 UTC+11, Meet Bhagdev wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> On interacting with several Django developers and committers, one of the 
> questions often came up, can I use SQL Server on non Window OS's? I wanted 
> to share that today Microsoft announced SQL Server availibility on Linux - 
> https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2016/03/07/announcing-sql-server-on-linux/
> . 
>
> While there is still work needed to strengthen the MSSQL-Django story, we 
> hope this aids more Linux developers to give SQL Server a shot. Let me know 
> of your thoughts and questions :)
>
> Cheers,
> Meet
>
> On Monday, February 22, 2016 at 4:54:38 PM UTC-8, Vin Yu wrote:
>>
>> Hey Folks, 
>>
>> My name is Vin and I work with Meet in the Microsoft SQL Server team. 
>> Just wanted to let you all know we are still looking into how we can better 
>> improve and support MSSQL for the Django framework. We’ll continue to sync 
>> with Michael and let you know of any updates soon. 
>>
>> Christiano and Tim - thanks for sharing your interest and sharing how you 
>> are using Django with MSSQL. It's great to learn from your scenarios. 
>>
>> If you have any concerns, questions or comments feel free to reach out to 
>> me at vinsonyu[at]microsoft.com
>
>

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Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Meet Bhagdev]

Hi all,

On interacting with several Django developers and committers, one of the 
questions often came up, can I use SQL Server on non Window OS's? I wanted 
to share that today Microsoft announced SQL Server availibility on Linux - 
https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2016/03/07/announcing-sql-server-on-linux/
. 

While there is still work needed to strengthen the MSSQL-Django story, we 
hope this aids more Linux developers to give SQL Server a shot. Let me know 
of your thoughts and questions :)

Cheers,
Meet

On Monday, February 22, 2016 at 4:54:38 PM UTC-8, Vin Yu wrote:
>
> Hey Folks, 
>
> My name is Vin and I work with Meet in the Microsoft SQL Server team. Just 
> wanted to let you all know we are still looking into how we can better 
> improve and support MSSQL for the Django framework. We’ll continue to sync 
> with Michael and let you know of any updates soon. 
>
> Christiano and Tim - thanks for sharing your interest and sharing how you 
> are using Django with MSSQL. It's great to learn from your scenarios. 
>
> If you have any concerns, questions or comments feel free to reach out to 
> me at vinsonyu[at]microsoft.com

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Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Vin Yu]

Hey Folks,

My name is Vin and I work with Meet in the Microsoft SQL Server team. Just 
wanted to let you all know we are still looking into how we can better improve 
and support MSSQL for the Django framework. We’ll continue to sync with Michael 
and let you know of any updates soon. 

Christiano and Tim - thanks for sharing your interest and sharing how you are 
using Django with MSSQL. It's great to learn from your scenarios.

If you have any concerns, questions or comments feel free to reach out to me at 
vinsonyu[at]microsoft.com

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Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Tim Allen]

Hi Cristiano, I support a bunch of developers on Windows (and Mac and 
Linux). You've probably heard this before, but Vagrant has really been a 
game changer for us. We're a RedHat shop, so I've built a CentOS vagrant 
box our developers can easily spin up for development purposes. It really 
helps for several reasons: they're developing on a Linux flavor as close to 
the production environment as possible, and have root access on their local 
VM which allows them to test new packages, configurations, and so on. It 
has improved our development process by leaps and bounds. For my stuff, 
I've developed a Vagrant / Linux / Python 3 / Django / FreeTDS - SQL Server 
box. I don't know if it might help you out, but feel free to have a look 
here: https://github.com/FlipperPA/django-python3-vagrant

I'm still hoping this project moves forward; it'd be great to have 
closer-to-native support.

Regards,

Tim

On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 1:09:41 PM UTC-5, Cristiano Coelho wrote:
>
> Tim Allen,
>
> What you said about compiling the C dependencies on a similar machine and 
> then upload it all together indeed works (it was one of the options) but 
> caused some other issues (ie: we usually develop on Windows, and also the 
> compiled libraries are very platform specific) and performance was really 
> not that important in this case. But just letting you know that your idea 
> works most of the time if you are willing to take the extra work.
>
> El jueves, 28 de enero de 2016, 12:48:29 (UTC-3), Tim Allen escribió:
>>
>> Thanks to everyone for their efforts; my workplace has a mix of SQL 
>> Server and PostgreSQL, heavier on the SQL Server side. Due to some groups 
>> reliance on SSIS and tight SQL Server integration with data vendors, that 
>> isn't going to change any time soon, so this is project is one we're 
>> following closely as well. We've tried to contribute by way of feedback, 
>> testing various configurations with various drivers, some documentation and 
>> a minuscule amount of code contribution.
>>
>> In case this anecdotal evidence helps anyone in the meantime, the stack 
>> we've found most reliable these days (from RedHat / CentOS, at least, but 
>> also partially tested on Ubuntu) is:
>>
>> - FreeTDS 0.95 (supports TDS version 7.3) with unixODBC. We tried the 
>> Microsoft provided ODBC driver, but ran into quite a few issues, 
>> particularly with multi-threading.
>> - pyodbc 3.0.10. pyodbc just works. We get slightly better performance 
>> with pymssql, but have found pyodbc to be more frequently updated and 
>> rock-solid. The performance upgrade didn't warrant using pymssql in our 
>> case, but is worth mentioning.
>> - django-pyodbc-azure. This is kept up to date with Django and Python 
>> release versions, and works with the least amount of configuration tweaking 
>> that we have found.
>>
>> We're on a mix of RHEL/CentOS 6 and 7, and have gotten this stack running 
>> reliably up to v7.2. YMMV, of course!
>>
>> As for the C dependencies, have you considered building the C binaries 
>> necessary on another server, and then just including them as part of a 
>> wheel (or something like that) for installation were you couldn't install? 
>> This sound like a perfect use case for a temporary vagrant box you could 
>> blow away after compiling. Just a thought that might give you the 
>> performance you need without stepping on anyone's toes.
>>
>> On Wednesday, January 27, 2016 at 12:15:48 AM UTC-5, Cristiano Coelho 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm interested in the progress of this as well :)
>>>
>>> Sorry I didn't read through all the posts, mostly the first ones about 
>>> the idea.
>>>
>>> I would like to know, have you guys decided on which adapter to use? I 
>>> have had a project where we needed to connect to SQL Server from a linux 
>>> machine (actually amazon lambda) and even worse, we couldn't install any 
>>> library with dependencies on C code, so we used one that was implemented in 
>>> pure python that worked very well (pytds if I'm not wrong), with ofcourse, 
>>> not the best performance.
>>> Why do I tell this? Because even if you want django to run on SQL 
>>> Server, it doesn't really mean you want to run it on a Windows machine, 
>>> actually, that would probably be a terrible idea (no ofense), since apache 
>>> works horribly bad on Windows, and Linux is atually the best OS to run a 
>>> web server with python code (either nginx or apache). So please keep this 
>>> in mind when chosing a connector, since if it has C dependencies (which it 
>>> will probably have, since the pure python ones are quite slow).
>>>
>>> About if you need different connectors for Azure or SQLServer, I'm 
>>> 'almost' sure you don't, we use azure or other cloud based sqlserver 
>>> deployments with no problem with standard sqlserver connectors.
>>>
>>> So basically, do not aim this towards making django more Windows 
>>> friendly, but rather the actual SQL Server backend.
>>>
>>> El lunes, 25 de enero de 

Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Cristiano Coelho]

Tim Allen,

What you said about compiling the C dependencies on a similar machine and 
then upload it all together indeed works (it was one of the options) but 
caused some other issues (ie: we usually develop on Windows, and also the 
compiled libraries are very platform specific) and performance was really 
not that important in this case. But just letting you know that your idea 
works most of the time if you are willing to take the extra work.

El jueves, 28 de enero de 2016, 12:48:29 (UTC-3), Tim Allen escribió:
>
> Thanks to everyone for their efforts; my workplace has a mix of SQL Server 
> and PostgreSQL, heavier on the SQL Server side. Due to some groups reliance 
> on SSIS and tight SQL Server integration with data vendors, that isn't 
> going to change any time soon, so this is project is one we're following 
> closely as well. We've tried to contribute by way of feedback, testing 
> various configurations with various drivers, some documentation and a 
> minuscule amount of code contribution.
>
> In case this anecdotal evidence helps anyone in the meantime, the stack 
> we've found most reliable these days (from RedHat / CentOS, at least, but 
> also partially tested on Ubuntu) is:
>
> - FreeTDS 0.95 (supports TDS version 7.3) with unixODBC. We tried the 
> Microsoft provided ODBC driver, but ran into quite a few issues, 
> particularly with multi-threading.
> - pyodbc 3.0.10. pyodbc just works. We get slightly better performance 
> with pymssql, but have found pyodbc to be more frequently updated and 
> rock-solid. The performance upgrade didn't warrant using pymssql in our 
> case, but is worth mentioning.
> - django-pyodbc-azure. This is kept up to date with Django and Python 
> release versions, and works with the least amount of configuration tweaking 
> that we have found.
>
> We're on a mix of RHEL/CentOS 6 and 7, and have gotten this stack running 
> reliably up to v7.2. YMMV, of course!
>
> As for the C dependencies, have you considered building the C binaries 
> necessary on another server, and then just including them as part of a 
> wheel (or something like that) for installation were you couldn't install? 
> This sound like a perfect use case for a temporary vagrant box you could 
> blow away after compiling. Just a thought that might give you the 
> performance you need without stepping on anyone's toes.
>
> On Wednesday, January 27, 2016 at 12:15:48 AM UTC-5, Cristiano Coelho 
> wrote:
>>
>> I'm interested in the progress of this as well :)
>>
>> Sorry I didn't read through all the posts, mostly the first ones about 
>> the idea.
>>
>> I would like to know, have you guys decided on which adapter to use? I 
>> have had a project where we needed to connect to SQL Server from a linux 
>> machine (actually amazon lambda) and even worse, we couldn't install any 
>> library with dependencies on C code, so we used one that was implemented in 
>> pure python that worked very well (pytds if I'm not wrong), with ofcourse, 
>> not the best performance.
>> Why do I tell this? Because even if you want django to run on SQL Server, 
>> it doesn't really mean you want to run it on a Windows machine, actually, 
>> that would probably be a terrible idea (no ofense), since apache works 
>> horribly bad on Windows, and Linux is atually the best OS to run a web 
>> server with python code (either nginx or apache). So please keep this in 
>> mind when chosing a connector, since if it has C dependencies (which it 
>> will probably have, since the pure python ones are quite slow).
>>
>> About if you need different connectors for Azure or SQLServer, I'm 
>> 'almost' sure you don't, we use azure or other cloud based sqlserver 
>> deployments with no problem with standard sqlserver connectors.
>>
>> So basically, do not aim this towards making django more Windows 
>> friendly, but rather the actual SQL Server backend.
>>
>> El lunes, 25 de enero de 2016, 22:59:07 (UTC-3), Fabio Caritas 
>> Barrionuevo da Luz escribió:
>>>
>>> is there any update about the progress of this?
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Fábio C. Barrionuevo da Luz
>>> Palmas - Tocantins - Brasil - América do Sul
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Em terça-feira, 13 de outubro de 2015 18:12:55 UTC-3, Tim Graham 
>>> escreveu:

 If anyone is interested in listening in on the meetings with Microsoft 
 engineers (Wednesday and Thursday 9am-5pm Pacific), let me know and I'll 
 send you the Skype link.

 On Friday, October 2, 2015 at 11:53:17 AM UTC-7, Meet Bhagdev wrote:
>
>
>
> On Thursday, October 1, 2015 at 12:32:25 PM UTC-7, Tim Graham wrote:
>>
>> Hi Meet,
>>
>> I was wondering
>>
>> 1. If you have any progress updates since your last message?
>>
> 
>
> * Yes, engineers on my team I are currently ramping up on the 
> three Django-SQL Server adapters*
>
>
>- *  Django-pymssql*
>- * Django-pyodbc-azure*
>- 
> * Django-mssql 

Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Tim Allen]

Thanks to everyone for their efforts; my workplace has a mix of SQL Server 
and PostgreSQL, heavier on the SQL Server side. Due to some groups reliance 
on SSIS and tight SQL Server integration with data vendors, that isn't 
going to change any time soon, so this is project is one we're following 
closely as well. We've tried to contribute by way of feedback, testing 
various configurations with various drivers, some documentation and a 
minuscule amount of code contribution.

In case this anecdotal evidence helps anyone in the meantime, the stack 
we've found most reliable these days (from RedHat / CentOS, at least, but 
also partially tested on Ubuntu) is:

- FreeTDS 0.95 (supports TDS version 7.3) with unixODBC. We tried the 
Microsoft provided ODBC driver, but ran into quite a few issues, 
particularly with multi-threading.
- pyodbc 3.0.10. pyodbc just works. We get slightly better performance with 
pymssql, but have found pyodbc to be more frequently updated and 
rock-solid. The performance upgrade didn't warrant using pymssql in our 
case, but is worth mentioning.
- django-pyodbc-azure. This is kept up to date with Django and Python 
release versions, and works with the least amount of configuration tweaking 
that we have found.

We're on a mix of RHEL/CentOS 6 and 7, and have gotten this stack running 
reliably up to v7.2. YMMV, of course!

As for the C dependencies, have you considered building the C binaries 
necessary on another server, and then just including them as part of a 
wheel (or something like that) for installation were you couldn't install? 
This sound like a perfect use case for a temporary vagrant box you could 
blow away after compiling. Just a thought that might give you the 
performance you need without stepping on anyone's toes.

On Wednesday, January 27, 2016 at 12:15:48 AM UTC-5, Cristiano Coelho wrote:
>
> I'm interested in the progress of this as well :)
>
> Sorry I didn't read through all the posts, mostly the first ones about the 
> idea.
>
> I would like to know, have you guys decided on which adapter to use? I 
> have had a project where we needed to connect to SQL Server from a linux 
> machine (actually amazon lambda) and even worse, we couldn't install any 
> library with dependencies on C code, so we used one that was implemented in 
> pure python that worked very well (pytds if I'm not wrong), with ofcourse, 
> not the best performance.
> Why do I tell this? Because even if you want django to run on SQL Server, 
> it doesn't really mean you want to run it on a Windows machine, actually, 
> that would probably be a terrible idea (no ofense), since apache works 
> horribly bad on Windows, and Linux is atually the best OS to run a web 
> server with python code (either nginx or apache). So please keep this in 
> mind when chosing a connector, since if it has C dependencies (which it 
> will probably have, since the pure python ones are quite slow).
>
> About if you need different connectors for Azure or SQLServer, I'm 
> 'almost' sure you don't, we use azure or other cloud based sqlserver 
> deployments with no problem with standard sqlserver connectors.
>
> So basically, do not aim this towards making django more Windows friendly, 
> but rather the actual SQL Server backend.
>
> El lunes, 25 de enero de 2016, 22:59:07 (UTC-3), Fabio Caritas Barrionuevo 
> da Luz escribió:
>>
>> is there any update about the progress of this?
>>
>> -- 
>> Fábio C. Barrionuevo da Luz
>> Palmas - Tocantins - Brasil - América do Sul
>>
>>
>>
>> Em terça-feira, 13 de outubro de 2015 18:12:55 UTC-3, Tim Graham escreveu:
>>>
>>> If anyone is interested in listening in on the meetings with Microsoft 
>>> engineers (Wednesday and Thursday 9am-5pm Pacific), let me know and I'll 
>>> send you the Skype link.
>>>
>>> On Friday, October 2, 2015 at 11:53:17 AM UTC-7, Meet Bhagdev wrote:



 On Thursday, October 1, 2015 at 12:32:25 PM UTC-7, Tim Graham wrote:
>
> Hi Meet,
>
> I was wondering
>
> 1. If you have any progress updates since your last message?
>
 

 * Yes, engineers on my team I are currently ramping up on the three 
 Django-SQL Server adapters*


- *  Django-pymssql*
- * Django-pyodbc-azure*
- 
 * Django-mssql *

 * The goal is to have a thorough understanding of what’s good and 
 what’s bad with these adapters before the event. *

>
> 2. If you have any further details on the schedule for the time in 
> Seattle in a week and a half? (including video conference details for 
> those 
> unable to attend in person)
>

- *We will have a video conference link for Day 2 and Day 3. 
Participants interested can join the conference stream from their 
 browser. 
The conference room mics are only capable to a certain extent. Thus the 
quality might be a little poor. *


- 

Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Michael Manfre]

There has not been much direct progress with regards to an SQL Server
database backend. My personal life keeps getting in the way and the test
suite takes a disturbingly long time on my computer against MSSQL. Despite
me being busy, others have helped move things forward. Some have
contributed code to django-mssql and others have put effort towards
optimizing the Django test suite so that it doesn't take so long when
connecting to a MS SQL Server.

My goal for the next MSSQL database backend will be to support running
Django on Windows, Linux, and Mac. Support for Windows is one of my primary
concerns because there are existing production sites that run Django on
Windows.

Regards,
Michael Manfre

On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 12:15 AM, Cristiano Coelho  wrote:

> I'm interested in the progress of this as well :)
>
> Sorry I didn't read through all the posts, mostly the first ones about the
> idea.
>
> I would like to know, have you guys decided on which adapter to use? I
> have had a project where we needed to connect to SQL Server from a linux
> machine (actually amazon lambda) and even worse, we couldn't install any
> library with dependencies on C code, so we used one that was implemented in
> pure python that worked very well (pytds if I'm not wrong), with ofcourse,
> not the best performance.
> Why do I tell this? Because even if you want django to run on SQL Server,
> it doesn't really mean you want to run it on a Windows machine, actually,
> that would probably be a terrible idea (no ofense), since apache works
> horribly bad on Windows, and Linux is atually the best OS to run a web
> server with python code (either nginx or apache). So please keep this in
> mind when chosing a connector, since if it has C dependencies (which it
> will probably have, since the pure python ones are quite slow).
>
> About if you need different connectors for Azure or SQLServer, I'm
> 'almost' sure you don't, we use azure or other cloud based sqlserver
> deployments with no problem with standard sqlserver connectors.
>
> So basically, do not aim this towards making django more Windows friendly,
> but rather the actual SQL Server backend.
>
>
> El lunes, 25 de enero de 2016, 22:59:07 (UTC-3), Fabio Caritas Barrionuevo
> da Luz escribió:
>>
>> is there any update about the progress of this?
>>
>> --
>> Fábio C. Barrionuevo da Luz
>> Palmas - Tocantins - Brasil - América do Sul
>>
>>
>>
>> Em terça-feira, 13 de outubro de 2015 18:12:55 UTC-3, Tim Graham escreveu:
>>>
>>> If anyone is interested in listening in on the meetings with Microsoft
>>> engineers (Wednesday and Thursday 9am-5pm Pacific), let me know and I'll
>>> send you the Skype link.
>>>
>>> On Friday, October 2, 2015 at 11:53:17 AM UTC-7, Meet Bhagdev wrote:



 On Thursday, October 1, 2015 at 12:32:25 PM UTC-7, Tim Graham wrote:
>
> Hi Meet,
>
> I was wondering
>
> 1. If you have any progress updates since your last message?
>


 * Yes, engineers on my team I are currently ramping up on the three
 Django-SQL Server adapters*


- *  Django-pymssql*
- * Django-pyodbc-azure*
-
 * Django-mssql *

 * The goal is to have a thorough understanding of what’s good and
 what’s bad with these adapters before the event. *

>
> 2. If you have any further details on the schedule for the time in
> Seattle in a week and a half? (including video conference details for 
> those
> unable to attend in person)
>

- *We will have a video conference link for Day 2 and Day 3.
Participants interested can join the conference stream from their 
 browser.
The conference room mics are only capable to a certain extent. Thus the
quality might be a little poor. *


- *We are finalizing the detailed schedule this week and will post
it on this thread by next Friday.  *


 3. If myself or the other attendees should do anything to prepare for
> the meetings?
>
> *Here are some things that you should prepare before coming to
 Seattle.*

 *-*


-
 * Have a clear understanding of the things that you need from
Microsoft to improve the SQL Server support on Django. We have 
 resources to
do the heavy lifting but need guidance. *
- * Share with us the issues we can help fix (on the Django
side and on the Django-ORM(database) side). *


 Thanks!
>
> On Thursday, September 17, 2015 at 3:38:09 PM UTC-4, Tim Allen wrote:
>>
>> Hey team, as promised, here are the simple tests I put together to
>> benchmark pyodbc vs pymssql. Be kind, this was Python I wrote a long time
>> ago!
>>
>> https://github.com/FlipperPA/pyodbc-pymssql-tests
>>
>> I've included example output on the README. Very basic, but 

Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Cristiano Coelho]

I'm interested in the progress of this as well :)

Sorry I didn't read through all the posts, mostly the first ones about the 
idea.

I would like to know, have you guys decided on which adapter to use? I have 
had a project where we needed to connect to SQL Server from a linux machine 
(actually amazon lambda) and even worse, we couldn't install any library 
with dependencies on C code, so we used one that was implemented in pure 
python that worked very well (pytds if I'm not wrong), with ofcourse, not 
the best performance.
Why do I tell this? Because even if you want django to run on SQL Server, 
it doesn't really mean you want to run it on a Windows machine, actually, 
that would probably be a terrible idea (no ofense), since apache works 
horribly bad on Windows, and Linux is atually the best OS to run a web 
server with python code (either nginx or apache). So please keep this in 
mind when chosing a connector, since if it has C dependencies (which it 
will probably have, since the pure python ones are quite slow).

About if you need different connectors for Azure or SQLServer, I'm 'almost' 
sure you don't, we use azure or other cloud based sqlserver deployments 
with no problem with standard sqlserver connectors.

So basically, do not aim this towards making django more Windows friendly, 
but rather the actual SQL Server backend.

El lunes, 25 de enero de 2016, 22:59:07 (UTC-3), Fabio Caritas Barrionuevo 
da Luz escribió:
>
> is there any update about the progress of this?
>
> -- 
> Fábio C. Barrionuevo da Luz
> Palmas - Tocantins - Brasil - América do Sul
>
>
>
> Em terça-feira, 13 de outubro de 2015 18:12:55 UTC-3, Tim Graham escreveu:
>>
>> If anyone is interested in listening in on the meetings with Microsoft 
>> engineers (Wednesday and Thursday 9am-5pm Pacific), let me know and I'll 
>> send you the Skype link.
>>
>> On Friday, October 2, 2015 at 11:53:17 AM UTC-7, Meet Bhagdev wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, October 1, 2015 at 12:32:25 PM UTC-7, Tim Graham wrote:

 Hi Meet,

 I was wondering

 1. If you have any progress updates since your last message?

>>> 
>>>
>>> * Yes, engineers on my team I are currently ramping up on the three 
>>> Django-SQL Server adapters*
>>>
>>>
>>>- *  Django-pymssql*
>>>- * Django-pyodbc-azure*
>>>- 
>>> * Django-mssql *
>>>
>>> * The goal is to have a thorough understanding of what’s good and 
>>> what’s bad with these adapters before the event. *
>>>

 2. If you have any further details on the schedule for the time in 
 Seattle in a week and a half? (including video conference details for 
 those 
 unable to attend in person)

>>>
>>>- *We will have a video conference link for Day 2 and Day 3. 
>>>Participants interested can join the conference stream from their 
>>> browser. 
>>>The conference room mics are only capable to a certain extent. Thus the 
>>>quality might be a little poor. *
>>>
>>>
>>>- *We are finalizing the detailed schedule this week and will post 
>>>it on this thread by next Friday.  *
>>>
>>>
>>> 3. If myself or the other attendees should do anything to prepare for 
 the meetings?

 *Here are some things that you should prepare before coming to 
>>> Seattle.*
>>>
>>> *-*
>>>
>>>
>>>- 
>>> * Have a clear understanding of the things that you need from 
>>>Microsoft to improve the SQL Server support on Django. We have resources 
>>> to 
>>>do the heavy lifting but need guidance. *
>>>- * Share with us the issues we can help fix (on the Django side 
>>>and on the Django-ORM(database) side). *
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks!

 On Thursday, September 17, 2015 at 3:38:09 PM UTC-4, Tim Allen wrote:
>
> Hey team, as promised, here are the simple tests I put together to 
> benchmark pyodbc vs pymssql. Be kind, this was Python I wrote a long time 
> ago!
>
> https://github.com/FlipperPA/pyodbc-pymssql-tests
>
> I've included example output on the README. Very basic, but useful.
>
> On Wednesday, September 16, 2015 at 11:27:59 AM UTC-4, Tim Allen wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for all of your efforts, Aymeric, I've been following your 
>> project since its inception - I'm FlipperPA on GitHub.
>>
>> On Sunday, September 13, 2015 at 4:59:34 AM UTC-4, Aymeric Augustin 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Did you mean “pyodbc outperforms pymssql”? Or did you go with pyodbc 
>>> despite lower performance? (Or did I misread that?)
>>>
>>
>> We went with pyodbc, despite lower performance. I've been meaning to 
>> put the simple tests up on GitHub - making a note to do that this week.
>>
>> At the time we were looking at options, we couldn't find a stable 
>> Django option for pymssql. I should have been more clear about the time 
>> frame in which we were testing as well; this was right around the time 

Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Fabio Caritas Barrionuevo da Luz]

is there any update about the progress of this?

-- 
Fábio C. Barrionuevo da Luz
Palmas - Tocantins - Brasil - América do Sul



Em terça-feira, 13 de outubro de 2015 18:12:55 UTC-3, Tim Graham escreveu:
>
> If anyone is interested in listening in on the meetings with Microsoft 
> engineers (Wednesday and Thursday 9am-5pm Pacific), let me know and I'll 
> send you the Skype link.
>
> On Friday, October 2, 2015 at 11:53:17 AM UTC-7, Meet Bhagdev wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, October 1, 2015 at 12:32:25 PM UTC-7, Tim Graham wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Meet,
>>>
>>> I was wondering
>>>
>>> 1. If you have any progress updates since your last message?
>>>
>> 
>>
>> * Yes, engineers on my team I are currently ramping up on the three 
>> Django-SQL Server adapters*
>>
>>
>>- *  Django-pymssql*
>>- * Django-pyodbc-azure*
>>- 
>> * Django-mssql *
>>
>> * The goal is to have a thorough understanding of what’s good and 
>> what’s bad with these adapters before the event. *
>>
>>>
>>> 2. If you have any further details on the schedule for the time in 
>>> Seattle in a week and a half? (including video conference details for those 
>>> unable to attend in person)
>>>
>>
>>- *We will have a video conference link for Day 2 and Day 3. 
>>Participants interested can join the conference stream from their 
>> browser. 
>>The conference room mics are only capable to a certain extent. Thus the 
>>quality might be a little poor. *
>>
>>
>>- *We are finalizing the detailed schedule this week and will post it 
>>on this thread by next Friday.  *
>>
>>
>> 3. If myself or the other attendees should do anything to prepare for the 
>>> meetings?
>>>
>>> *Here are some things that you should prepare before coming to 
>> Seattle.*
>>
>> *-*
>>
>>
>>- 
>> * Have a clear understanding of the things that you need from 
>>Microsoft to improve the SQL Server support on Django. We have resources 
>> to 
>>do the heavy lifting but need guidance. *
>>- * Share with us the issues we can help fix (on the Django side 
>>and on the Django-ORM(database) side). *
>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> On Thursday, September 17, 2015 at 3:38:09 PM UTC-4, Tim Allen wrote:

 Hey team, as promised, here are the simple tests I put together to 
 benchmark pyodbc vs pymssql. Be kind, this was Python I wrote a long time 
 ago!

 https://github.com/FlipperPA/pyodbc-pymssql-tests

 I've included example output on the README. Very basic, but useful.

 On Wednesday, September 16, 2015 at 11:27:59 AM UTC-4, Tim Allen wrote:
>
> Thanks for all of your efforts, Aymeric, I've been following your 
> project since its inception - I'm FlipperPA on GitHub.
>
> On Sunday, September 13, 2015 at 4:59:34 AM UTC-4, Aymeric Augustin 
> wrote:
>>
>> Did you mean “pyodbc outperforms pymssql”? Or did you go with pyodbc 
>> despite lower performance? (Or did I misread that?)
>>
>
> We went with pyodbc, despite lower performance. I've been meaning to 
> put the simple tests up on GitHub - making a note to do that this week.
>
> At the time we were looking at options, we couldn't find a stable 
> Django option for pymssql. I should have been more clear about the time 
> frame in which we were testing as well; this was right around the time 
> that 
> you first started django-pymssql. 
>
>>
>>- django-pymssql is basically django-mssql on Linux. We could 
>>debate whether django-pyodbc-azure is more stable than django-mssql. 
>>There’ve been a bunch of forks over the years.
>>
>>
>> I’m not going to argue it further because I would inevitably sound 
>> like I’m tooting my own horn which isn’t my intent. I will just say that 
>> the picture isn’t all that clear.
>>
>
> There is definitely much more to consider now, than when we were first 
> assessing options. I will say I've been impressed with 
> django-pyodbc-azure 
> staying up to date with Django's releases.
>
> From the perspective of someone who works on Django’s internals, I 
>> believe django-pyodbc-azure could use a review of how the Django 
>> database 
>> backend API is implemented.
>>
>> For example, looking at the new transaction APIs I introduced in 1.6, 
>> I see that it commits or rolls back implicitly in _set_autocommit. 
>> At best that’s weird and useless, at worst a data corruption bug.
>>
>> Nothing that couldn’t be fixed, but just because the code works 
>> doesn’t means it handles edge cases well. django-mssql probably fares a 
>> bit 
>> better since its author cooperated with and eventually joined the core 
>> team.
>>
>> Thanks to the abstraction provided by the Python DB-API, it should be 
>> quite easy to port code implementing Django’s database 

Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Tim Graham]

If anyone is interested in listening in on the meetings with Microsoft 
engineers (Wednesday and Thursday 9am-5pm Pacific), let me know and I'll 
send you the Skype link.

On Friday, October 2, 2015 at 11:53:17 AM UTC-7, Meet Bhagdev wrote:
>
>
>
> On Thursday, October 1, 2015 at 12:32:25 PM UTC-7, Tim Graham wrote:
>>
>> Hi Meet,
>>
>> I was wondering
>>
>> 1. If you have any progress updates since your last message?
>>
> 
>
> * Yes, engineers on my team I are currently ramping up on the three 
> Django-SQL Server adapters*
>
>
>- *  Django-pymssql*
>- * Django-pyodbc-azure*
>- 
> * Django-mssql *
>
> * The goal is to have a thorough understanding of what’s good and 
> what’s bad with these adapters before the event. *
>
>>
>> 2. If you have any further details on the schedule for the time in 
>> Seattle in a week and a half? (including video conference details for those 
>> unable to attend in person)
>>
>
>- *We will have a video conference link for Day 2 and Day 3. 
>Participants interested can join the conference stream from their browser. 
>The conference room mics are only capable to a certain extent. Thus the 
>quality might be a little poor. *
>
>
>- *We are finalizing the detailed schedule this week and will post it 
>on this thread by next Friday.  *
>
>
> 3. If myself or the other attendees should do anything to prepare for the 
>> meetings?
>>
>> *Here are some things that you should prepare before coming to 
> Seattle.*
>
> *-*
>
>
>- 
> * Have a clear understanding of the things that you need from 
>Microsoft to improve the SQL Server support on Django. We have resources 
> to 
>do the heavy lifting but need guidance. *
>- * Share with us the issues we can help fix (on the Django side 
>and on the Django-ORM(database) side). *
>
>
> Thanks!
>>
>> On Thursday, September 17, 2015 at 3:38:09 PM UTC-4, Tim Allen wrote:
>>>
>>> Hey team, as promised, here are the simple tests I put together to 
>>> benchmark pyodbc vs pymssql. Be kind, this was Python I wrote a long time 
>>> ago!
>>>
>>> https://github.com/FlipperPA/pyodbc-pymssql-tests
>>>
>>> I've included example output on the README. Very basic, but useful.
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, September 16, 2015 at 11:27:59 AM UTC-4, Tim Allen wrote:

 Thanks for all of your efforts, Aymeric, I've been following your 
 project since its inception - I'm FlipperPA on GitHub.

 On Sunday, September 13, 2015 at 4:59:34 AM UTC-4, Aymeric Augustin 
 wrote:
>
> Did you mean “pyodbc outperforms pymssql”? Or did you go with pyodbc 
> despite lower performance? (Or did I misread that?)
>

 We went with pyodbc, despite lower performance. I've been meaning to 
 put the simple tests up on GitHub - making a note to do that this week.

 At the time we were looking at options, we couldn't find a stable 
 Django option for pymssql. I should have been more clear about the time 
 frame in which we were testing as well; this was right around the time 
 that 
 you first started django-pymssql. 

>
>- django-pymssql is basically django-mssql on Linux. We could 
>debate whether django-pyodbc-azure is more stable than django-mssql. 
>There’ve been a bunch of forks over the years.
>
>
> I’m not going to argue it further because I would inevitably sound 
> like I’m tooting my own horn which isn’t my intent. I will just say that 
> the picture isn’t all that clear.
>

 There is definitely much more to consider now, than when we were first 
 assessing options. I will say I've been impressed with django-pyodbc-azure 
 staying up to date with Django's releases.

 From the perspective of someone who works on Django’s internals, I 
> believe django-pyodbc-azure could use a review of how the Django database 
> backend API is implemented.
>
> For example, looking at the new transaction APIs I introduced in 1.6, 
> I see that it commits or rolls back implicitly in _set_autocommit. At 
> best that’s weird and useless, at worst a data corruption bug.
>
> Nothing that couldn’t be fixed, but just because the code works 
> doesn’t means it handles edge cases well. django-mssql probably fares a 
> bit 
> better since its author cooperated with and eventually joined the core 
> team.
>
> Thanks to the abstraction provided by the Python DB-API, it should be 
> quite easy to port code implementing Django’s database backend API 
> between 
> django-mssql and django-pyodbc-azure anyway.
>

 You certainly know this stuff more intimately that me, I can just relay 
 my experience, and hope it helps! Either way, a driver provided from 
 Microsoft that offers better performance, easier installation and 
 configuration, and more features would 

Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Meet Bhagdev]

Hi Tim, 
Hope this helps, please let me know if you have any more questions. 

On Thursday, October 1, 2015 at 12:32:25 PM UTC-7, Tim Graham wrote:
>
> Hi Meet,
>
> I was wondering
>
> 1. If you have any progress updates since your last message?
>
 
*Yes, engineers on my team and I are currently ramping up on the three 
Django-SQL Server adapters*


   - 
*Django-pymssql *
   - 
*Django-pyodbc-azure *
   - 
*Django-mssql *

*   s  The goal is to have a thorough understanding of what’s good and 
what’s bad with these adapters before the event.*

 


> 2. If you have any further details on the schedule for the time in Seattle 
> in a week and a half? (including video conference details for those unable 
> to attend in person)
>
 

-We will have a video conference link for Day 2 and Day 3. 
Participants interested can join the conference stream from their browser. 
The conference room mics are only capable to a certain extent. Thus the 
quality might be a little poor. 

-We are finalizing the detailed schedule this week and will post it 
on this thread by next Friday.

 

> 3. If myself or the other attendees should do anything to prepare for the 
> meetings?
>
> Thanks!
>
> On Thursday, September 17, 2015 at 3:38:09 PM UTC-4, Tim Allen wrote:
>>
>> Hey team, as promised, here are the simple tests I put together to 
>> benchmark pyodbc vs pymssql. Be kind, this was Python I wrote a long time 
>> ago!
>>
>> https://github.com/FlipperPA/pyodbc-pymssql-tests
>>
>> I've included example output on the README. Very basic, but useful.
>>
>> On Wednesday, September 16, 2015 at 11:27:59 AM UTC-4, Tim Allen wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks for all of your efforts, Aymeric, I've been following your 
>>> project since its inception - I'm FlipperPA on GitHub.
>>>
>>> On Sunday, September 13, 2015 at 4:59:34 AM UTC-4, Aymeric Augustin 
>>> wrote:

 Did you mean “pyodbc outperforms pymssql”? Or did you go with pyodbc 
 despite lower performance? (Or did I misread that?)

>>>
>>> We went with pyodbc, despite lower performance. I've been meaning to put 
>>> the simple tests up on GitHub - making a note to do that this week.
>>>
>>> At the time we were looking at options, we couldn't find a stable Django 
>>> option for pymssql. I should have been more clear about the time frame in 
>>> which we were testing as well; this was right around the time that you 
>>> first started django-pymssql. 
>>>

- django-pymssql is basically django-mssql on Linux. We could 
debate whether django-pyodbc-azure is more stable than django-mssql. 
There’ve been a bunch of forks over the years.


 I’m not going to argue it further because I would inevitably sound like 
 I’m tooting my own horn which isn’t my intent. I will just say that the 
 picture isn’t all that clear.

>>>
>>> There is definitely much more to consider now, than when we were first 
>>> assessing options. I will say I've been impressed with django-pyodbc-azure 
>>> staying up to date with Django's releases.
>>>
>>> From the perspective of someone who works on Django’s internals, I 
 believe django-pyodbc-azure could use a review of how the Django database 
 backend API is implemented.

 For example, looking at the new transaction APIs I introduced in 1.6, I 
 see that it commits or rolls back implicitly in _set_autocommit. At 
 best that’s weird and useless, at worst a data corruption bug.

 Nothing that couldn’t be fixed, but just because the code works doesn’t 
 means it handles edge cases well. django-mssql probably fares a bit better 
 since its author cooperated with and eventually joined the core team.

 Thanks to the abstraction provided by the Python DB-API, it should be 
 quite easy to port code implementing Django’s database backend API between 
 django-mssql and django-pyodbc-azure anyway.

>>>
>>> You certainly know this stuff more intimately that me, I can just relay 
>>> my experience, and hope it helps! Either way, a driver provided from 
>>> Microsoft that offers better performance, easier installation and 
>>> configuration, and more features would be a win for us all. The amount of 
>>> time I've seen people spend trying to get FreeTDS + unixODBC + pyodbc 
>>> running is substantial.
>>>
>>> Thanks again for your efforts - they're very much appreciated, and I'll 
>>> check out django-pymssql again soon, it has been over a year.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Tim
>>>
>>

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Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Tim Graham]

Hi Meet,

I was wondering

1. If you have any progress updates since your last message?
2. If you have any further details on the schedule for the time in Seattle 
in a week and a half? (including video conference details for those unable 
to attend in person)
3. If myself or the other attendees should do anything to prepare for the 
meetings?

Thanks!

On Thursday, September 17, 2015 at 3:38:09 PM UTC-4, Tim Allen wrote:
>
> Hey team, as promised, here are the simple tests I put together to 
> benchmark pyodbc vs pymssql. Be kind, this was Python I wrote a long time 
> ago!
>
> https://github.com/FlipperPA/pyodbc-pymssql-tests
>
> I've included example output on the README. Very basic, but useful.
>
> On Wednesday, September 16, 2015 at 11:27:59 AM UTC-4, Tim Allen wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for all of your efforts, Aymeric, I've been following your project 
>> since its inception - I'm FlipperPA on GitHub.
>>
>> On Sunday, September 13, 2015 at 4:59:34 AM UTC-4, Aymeric Augustin wrote:
>>>
>>> Did you mean “pyodbc outperforms pymssql”? Or did you go with pyodbc 
>>> despite lower performance? (Or did I misread that?)
>>>
>>
>> We went with pyodbc, despite lower performance. I've been meaning to put 
>> the simple tests up on GitHub - making a note to do that this week.
>>
>> At the time we were looking at options, we couldn't find a stable Django 
>> option for pymssql. I should have been more clear about the time frame in 
>> which we were testing as well; this was right around the time that you 
>> first started django-pymssql. 
>>
>>>
>>>- django-pymssql is basically django-mssql on Linux. We could debate 
>>>whether django-pyodbc-azure is more stable than django-mssql. There’ve 
>>> been 
>>>a bunch of forks over the years.
>>>
>>>
>>> I’m not going to argue it further because I would inevitably sound like 
>>> I’m tooting my own horn which isn’t my intent. I will just say that the 
>>> picture isn’t all that clear.
>>>
>>
>> There is definitely much more to consider now, than when we were first 
>> assessing options. I will say I've been impressed with django-pyodbc-azure 
>> staying up to date with Django's releases.
>>
>> From the perspective of someone who works on Django’s internals, I 
>>> believe django-pyodbc-azure could use a review of how the Django database 
>>> backend API is implemented.
>>>
>>> For example, looking at the new transaction APIs I introduced in 1.6, I 
>>> see that it commits or rolls back implicitly in _set_autocommit. At 
>>> best that’s weird and useless, at worst a data corruption bug.
>>>
>>> Nothing that couldn’t be fixed, but just because the code works doesn’t 
>>> means it handles edge cases well. django-mssql probably fares a bit better 
>>> since its author cooperated with and eventually joined the core team.
>>>
>>> Thanks to the abstraction provided by the Python DB-API, it should be 
>>> quite easy to port code implementing Django’s database backend API between 
>>> django-mssql and django-pyodbc-azure anyway.
>>>
>>
>> You certainly know this stuff more intimately that me, I can just relay 
>> my experience, and hope it helps! Either way, a driver provided from 
>> Microsoft that offers better performance, easier installation and 
>> configuration, and more features would be a win for us all. The amount of 
>> time I've seen people spend trying to get FreeTDS + unixODBC + pyodbc 
>> running is substantial.
>>
>> Thanks again for your efforts - they're very much appreciated, and I'll 
>> check out django-pymssql again soon, it has been over a year.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Tim
>>
>

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Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Tim Allen]

Hey team, as promised, here are the simple tests I put together to 
benchmark pyodbc vs pymssql. Be kind, this was Python I wrote a long time 
ago!

https://github.com/FlipperPA/pyodbc-pymssql-tests

I've included example output on the README. Very basic, but useful.

On Wednesday, September 16, 2015 at 11:27:59 AM UTC-4, Tim Allen wrote:
>
> Thanks for all of your efforts, Aymeric, I've been following your project 
> since its inception - I'm FlipperPA on GitHub.
>
> On Sunday, September 13, 2015 at 4:59:34 AM UTC-4, Aymeric Augustin wrote:
>>
>> Did you mean “pyodbc outperforms pymssql”? Or did you go with pyodbc 
>> despite lower performance? (Or did I misread that?)
>>
>
> We went with pyodbc, despite lower performance. I've been meaning to put 
> the simple tests up on GitHub - making a note to do that this week.
>
> At the time we were looking at options, we couldn't find a stable Django 
> option for pymssql. I should have been more clear about the time frame in 
> which we were testing as well; this was right around the time that you 
> first started django-pymssql. 
>
>>
>>- django-pymssql is basically django-mssql on Linux. We could debate 
>>whether django-pyodbc-azure is more stable than django-mssql. There’ve 
>> been 
>>a bunch of forks over the years.
>>
>>
>> I’m not going to argue it further because I would inevitably sound like 
>> I’m tooting my own horn which isn’t my intent. I will just say that the 
>> picture isn’t all that clear.
>>
>
> There is definitely much more to consider now, than when we were first 
> assessing options. I will say I've been impressed with django-pyodbc-azure 
> staying up to date with Django's releases.
>
> From the perspective of someone who works on Django’s internals, I believe 
>> django-pyodbc-azure could use a review of how the Django database backend 
>> API is implemented.
>>
>> For example, looking at the new transaction APIs I introduced in 1.6, I 
>> see that it commits or rolls back implicitly in _set_autocommit. At best 
>> that’s weird and useless, at worst a data corruption bug.
>>
>> Nothing that couldn’t be fixed, but just because the code works doesn’t 
>> means it handles edge cases well. django-mssql probably fares a bit better 
>> since its author cooperated with and eventually joined the core team.
>>
>> Thanks to the abstraction provided by the Python DB-API, it should be 
>> quite easy to port code implementing Django’s database backend API between 
>> django-mssql and django-pyodbc-azure anyway.
>>
>
> You certainly know this stuff more intimately that me, I can just relay my 
> experience, and hope it helps! Either way, a driver provided from Microsoft 
> that offers better performance, easier installation and configuration, and 
> more features would be a win for us all. The amount of time I've seen 
> people spend trying to get FreeTDS + unixODBC + pyodbc running is 
> substantial.
>
> Thanks again for your efforts - they're very much appreciated, and I'll 
> check out django-pymssql again soon, it has been over a year.
>
> Regards,
>
> Tim
>

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Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Tim Allen]

Thanks for all of your efforts, Aymeric, I've been following your project 
since its inception - I'm FlipperPA on GitHub.

On Sunday, September 13, 2015 at 4:59:34 AM UTC-4, Aymeric Augustin wrote:
>
> Did you mean “pyodbc outperforms pymssql”? Or did you go with pyodbc 
> despite lower performance? (Or did I misread that?)
>

We went with pyodbc, despite lower performance. I've been meaning to put 
the simple tests up on GitHub - making a note to do that this week.

At the time we were looking at options, we couldn't find a stable Django 
option for pymssql. I should have been more clear about the time frame in 
which we were testing as well; this was right around the time that you 
first started django-pymssql. 

>
>- django-pymssql is basically django-mssql on Linux. We could debate 
>whether django-pyodbc-azure is more stable than django-mssql. There’ve 
> been 
>a bunch of forks over the years.
>
>
> I’m not going to argue it further because I would inevitably sound like 
> I’m tooting my own horn which isn’t my intent. I will just say that the 
> picture isn’t all that clear.
>

There is definitely much more to consider now, than when we were first 
assessing options. I will say I've been impressed with django-pyodbc-azure 
staying up to date with Django's releases.

>From the perspective of someone who works on Django’s internals, I believe 
> django-pyodbc-azure could use a review of how the Django database backend 
> API is implemented.
>
> For example, looking at the new transaction APIs I introduced in 1.6, I 
> see that it commits or rolls back implicitly in _set_autocommit. At best 
> that’s weird and useless, at worst a data corruption bug.
>
> Nothing that couldn’t be fixed, but just because the code works doesn’t 
> means it handles edge cases well. django-mssql probably fares a bit better 
> since its author cooperated with and eventually joined the core team.
>
> Thanks to the abstraction provided by the Python DB-API, it should be 
> quite easy to port code implementing Django’s database backend API between 
> django-mssql and django-pyodbc-azure anyway.
>

You certainly know this stuff more intimately that me, I can just relay my 
experience, and hope it helps! Either way, a driver provided from Microsoft 
that offers better performance, easier installation and configuration, and 
more features would be a win for us all. The amount of time I've seen 
people spend trying to get FreeTDS + unixODBC + pyodbc running is 
substantial.

Thanks again for your efforts - they're very much appreciated, and I'll 
check out django-pymssql again soon, it has been over a year.

Regards,

Tim

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Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Aymeric Augustin]

Hi Tim,

Thanks for sharing your experience!

> On 13 sept. 2015, at 01:48, Tim Allen  wrote:
> We have a test suite performing table creates / destroys, basic CRUD 
> operations, stored procedure execution, and more against both pyodbc and 
> pymssql.
> pymssql outperforms pyodbc significantly against SQL Server, especially on 
> SELECT and INSERT operations.
Did you mean “pyodbc outperforms pymssql”? Or did you go with pyodbc despite 
lower performance? (Or did I misread that?)
> pymssql on Linux offers no stable Django options, as noted throughout this 
> thread.
django-pymssql is basically django-mssql on Linux. We could debate whether 
django-pyodbc-azure is more stable than django-mssql. There’ve been a bunch of 
forks over the years.

I’m not going to argue it further because I would inevitably sound like I’m 
tooting my own horn which isn’t my intent. I will just say that the picture 
isn’t all that clear.
> pyodbc offers several options.
> we initially started using django-pyodbc (lionheart on GitHub), which worked 
> but required quite a few tweaks to the settings.
> we moved to django-pyodbc-azure, which we found a much easier install / 
> Django DATABASES {} configuration, and is kept up to date in a timely fashion.

>From the perspective of someone who works on Django’s internals, I believe 
>django-pyodbc-azure could use a review of how the Django database backend API 
>is implemented.

For example, looking at the new transaction APIs I introduced in 1.6, I see 
that it commits or rolls back implicitly in _set_autocommit. At best that’s 
weird and useless, at worst a data corruption bug.

Nothing that couldn’t be fixed, but just because the code works doesn’t means 
it handles edge cases well. django-mssql probably fares a bit better since its 
author cooperated with and eventually joined the core team.

Thanks to the abstraction provided by the Python DB-API, it should be quite 
easy to port code implementing Django’s database backend API between 
django-mssql and django-pyodbc-azure anyway.

-- 
Aymeric.

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Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Tim Allen]

Sorry to have missed meeting you at DjangoCon, Meet, but I'll add my 
findings here to the record.

By way of background, I work at The Wharton School, where we're a 
Python/Django (on RHEL) and SQL Server shop. I was responsible for 
implementing a working configuration for Django, starting with version 1.6, 
including building Vagrant boxes for developers which had to be 'vagrant up 
plug-and-play' ready to go. We've had pretty good success with the stack 
we're now using, but hit quite a few pain points and found many points 
where things can very much be improved.

First, drivers at the Linux level.

   - We've had our best luck with FreeTDS and unixODBC for reliability. 
   We've been using it successfully throughout the process.
   - We found the MS provided driver more performant, specifically when 
  dealing with large numbers of inserts.
  - The MS driver also offered features like bulk-loading of data, 
  which while not Django specific, would have still been a big win for our 
  team using Python without Django.
  - FreeTDS + unixODBC runs under any Linux distro we tested 
  (RHEL/CentOS, Ubuntu, Debian) and Solaris.
   - As mentioned, we found the MSODBC Driver for RedHat 
   (http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=36437) to be more 
   performant, however, ran into quite a few issues starting with Django 1.7.
   - There seem to be issues with multi-threading. Starting with Django 
  1.7, we had to run Django's runserver with the '--nothreading' option.
  - We ran into further issues with SQLRowCount returns from the 
  driver. These rendered it unusable.
  - Only supports RedHat, but also works on CentOS. We'd prefer one 
  that at least also works on Ubuntu/Debian (a definite must for the Django 
  community).
  - The driver is closed-source.
   - A note about FreeTDS: while FreeTDS 0.95 support TDS Version 7.3, as 
   does pyodbc, we had to stick with TDS Version 7.2, as any stack we tried 
   mapped to incorrect column types when switching to 7.3, which supports new 
   SQL Server 2008 column types. I haven't had the time to dig deeper, map 
   correctly, and issue a P.R. on this one. Additionally, TDS version numbers 
   are very confusing to users (see my Stack Overflow responses, heh). At one 
   point in time, FreeTDS has named the new TDS version "8.0" before Microsoft 
   made an official declaration; Microsoft then called it "7.2". While often 
   this will not affect configuration, now that 7.3 is support in FreeTDS 
   0.95, if "8.0" is entered in configuration, it is now default to "7.3" 
   which causes issues, and the configuration in Django, odbc.ini, and 
   freetds.conf must all explicitly state "7.2".

Regardless of the driver chosen (FreeTDS+unixODBC or MSODBC), we ended up 
having to use pyodbc instead of pymssql:

   - We have a test suite performing table creates / destroys, basic CRUD 
   operations, stored procedure execution, and more against both pyodbc and 
   pymssql.
   - pymssql outperforms pyodbc significantly against SQL Server, 
  especially on SELECT and INSERT operations.
   - pymssql on Linux offers no stable Django options, as noted throughout 
   this thread.
   - pyodbc offers several options.
  - we initially started using django-pyodbc (lionheart on GitHub), 
  which worked but required quite a few tweaks to the settings.
  - we moved to django-pyodbc-azure, which we found a much easier 
  install / Django DATABASES {} configuration, and is kept up to date in a 
  timely fashion.
   
To summarize, here's what we now use:

   - FreeTDS 0.91 - 0.95 (dependent on RedHat/CentOS version)
   - unixODBC (dependent on RedHat/CentOS version)
   - pyodbc
   - django-pyodbc-azure
   
It works well for us, but we've had to make compromises, and the promise of 
better performance we've seen in certain scenarios is tempting. If I were 
building a wish list, here's what I'd like to see, for performance and 
ease-of-installation:

   - Native driver to replace FreeTDS + unixODBC for SQL Server connections 
   that is supported and runs on more than just RedHat/CentOS, preferably open 
   source!
   - Easy, prompt free option for install: I had to hack to install to 
   avoid having to respond to interactive prompts in Vagrantfiles, Chef 
   recipes, etc.
   - Eventual inclusion in EPEL, etc, for yum or apt-get installs.
   - Python package (to replace pyodbc with one that supports SQL Server 
   functionality and performance)
   - Django-Python package (to replicate django-pyodbc-azure's mappings to 
   the pyodbc replacement)
   - Support bcp, SSIS, DATE data type, FILTERED and SPATIAL (GeoDjango, 
   anyone?) index types, easy Stored Procedure calls, OUTPUT variables, and 
   more I can't remember off the top of my head.

These would also be big wins for users of other languages / frameworks, 
such as PHP and Ruby web frameworks, Flask, etc, who use SQL Server.

So there's 

Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Meet Bhagdev]

On Wednesday, September 2, 2015 at 3:05:23 PM UTC-7, Ramiro Morales wrote:
>
> Hi all, 
>
> On Fri, Aug 21, 2015 at 2:39 PM, Meet Bhagdev  > wrote: 
> > Hi Django Committers, 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > My name is Meet Bhagdev, I work in the Database Systems engineering team 
> at 
> > Microsoft in Seattle, WA. My focus is the APIs used to connect to and 
> use 
> > Azure SQL Database and SQL Server (MSSQL). Example APIs are ODBC, JDBC, 
> > ADO.NET, etc. 
>
> (sorry for possibly repeating things folks have already posted to this 
> thread) 
>
> Meet: Is this list of APIs the final and full one? 
>
>  

*This is definitely not a final and full one. We have actually started 
endorsing pymssql and FreeTDS to our Linux and Mac customers who want to 
use Azure SQL. *

*We have also created documentation that lets customers use pymssql on *

*1. 
Windows: 
https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/documentation/articles/sql-database-develop-python-simple-windows/*

*2. 
Linux: 
https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/documentation/articles/sql-database-develop-python-simple-ubuntu-linux/*

*3. 
Mac: 
https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/documentation/articles/sql-database-develop-python-simple-mac-osx/*

 
* Also a big thank you from everyone on our team here for working on 
FreeTDS and pymssql. I definitely makes our customers lives easier*
 

> Because there is work being done on a different stack, the one formed by : 
>
> * FreeTDS (http://www.freetds.org/ GPL licensed) which implements the 
> wire-level TDS protocol. 
> * pymssql (http://pymssql.org LGPL licensed) -- Python bindings for 
> FreeTDS which implements the Python DB-API 2.0. I'm part of the team 
> maintaining it 
> * django-pymssql (https://github.com/aaugustin/django-pymssql , 
> MIT-licensed) which was created by Aymeric Augustin and depends on 
> pymssql plus ... 
> * django-mssql (https://django-mssql.readthedocs.org/en/latest/ , 
> MIT-licensed) which was created by Michael Manfre 
>
> *I am currently exploring django-pymssql, django-mssql, and 
django-pyodbc-azure to see which adapter(s) can we adopt to provide Django 
and MSSQL/Azure SQL support. Do have any opinions as to which one(s) should 
we contribute to eventually? *
 

> Michael, Aymeric and me are Django development team members. 
>
> Personally, I've been working on stabilizing the lower layers by 
> following a "yak shaving" non-strategy: 
>
> We (the pymssql team) realised the official pymssql Windows binaries 
> (in particular the FreeTDS libraries) we published when releasing 
> pymssql 2.1.1 don't link in a SSL implementation and so they aren't 
> usable to actually connect to Azure even if the pymssql code iself has 
> such ability. 
>

 *I looked around and it seems like this problem was fixed on this page by 
Christoph Gohlke from University of California, Irvine: 
http://www.lfd.uci.edu/~gohlke/pythonlibs/#pymssql. I downloaded pymssql 
from here and it seemed like it links the SSL implementations. I also 
documented the procedure here 
:
 
https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/documentation/articles/sql-database-develop-python-simple-windows/*

>
> This, plus the fact that the manual process of creating the actual 
> matrix of Windows deliverables is a bit tedious led me to try using 
> the AppVeyor.com hosted Windows CI platform (free for open source 
> projects) to test and actually build the binaries. The work in 
> progress on this can be seen at 
> https://github.com/ramiro/pymssql/tree/appveyor and 
> https://ci.appveyor.com/project/ramiro/pymssql 
>
> (When working on pymssql 2.1.1 at some point I created a free Azure 
> account with my credit card, tested (on Linux) the pymssql 
> implementation of connection changes needed to get it to work against 
> Azure's SQL Server and cancelled it before it started billing.) 
>
> *Do you still need Azure credits to run Azure SQL for free, I can try to 
get some free credits for you and the FreeTDS and pymssql team depending on 
the need. *
 

> So, this led me to start contributing to FreeTDS so to get it back to 
> build cleanly on Windows (work partially included with the 0.95 
> release back in June) and to also get it built/tested using 
> AppVeyor.com using the experience gained with pymssql. This has been 
> already merged in the current FreeTDS development code and allows the 
> maintainer and contributors to work without access to Windows/SQL 
> Server licenses (my case). 
>
> - https://ci.appveyor.com/project/freetds/freetds 
> - 
> https://github.com/FreeTDS/freetds/commit/3db5caa48f281f3558d4031cb5a0f0d8e8eef28c
>  
>
 
*  This is great to hear. Getting it on Appveyor definitely makes it easy 
to build on Windows. *
 

> I know MS dropped support of the DB-Library (and hence the API it 
> provides, of which FreeTDS is a open source implementation) back in 
> the SQL Server 2005 times. That's why I 

Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Meet Bhagdev]

Hi Tim,
I will definitely be driving the initial planing and will help lay out the 
ground work. There will be other engineer(s) who will work on contributing 
to third party adapter(s) and the Django project(eventualy). 
But first, we need to figure out the ask and the nature of work required. 
The goal of our October coding camp workshop is to figure that out the ask, 
by bringing developers from the Django community like yourself, and the 
developers from my team, to come together and better understand the 
technical details. 
Once we have a clear understanding of the existing solutions and the amount 
of work required on improving the Django-MSSQL/Azure SQL story we will be 
able to commit developer(s) that will contribute and do all the heavy 
lifting.
Also thanks for the share of Aymeric's log of his work on the template 
engine. I absolutely agree on having something similar for the work we are 
planning on doing. Once we have a clear idea I will start working on 
something similar. A final version of this may only be possible after the 
October event.

Best,
Meet

On Wednesday, September 2, 2015 at 7:49:07 AM UTC-7, Tim Graham wrote:
>
> Hi Meet,
>
> Will you be the primary contributor/maintainer from Microsoft of this 
> project or will their be other engineers at Microsoft involved? I'd like to 
> understand the bus factor on your side and how much time resources you plan 
> to provide.
>
> To give you an idea of how our community works when it comes to decision 
> making and implementing large features, I thought you might find Aymeric's 
> log of his work to add multiple template engines support to Django helpful: 
> https://myks.org/en/multiple-template-engines-for-django/ 
> 
> .
>
> On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 at 10:52:31 PM UTC-4, Meet Bhagdev wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi Russ,Tim
>> That is a great idea. I am going to try to engage with the team at 
>> Microsoft who is in charge of the sponsorship. I plan on attending the 
>> conference so I will see some of you there. 
>>
>> @Tim: I agree that a lot of ground work needs to be done in terms of 
>> testing out the current third party adapters and deciding which one/ones 
>> should we adopt and extend. I know Michael Manfre has a lot of expertise 
>> here. I will do my due diligence and test out the existing solutions but if 
>> Michael could share some of his findings, that would be great. If anyone 
>> else also wants to take a stab at testing and using the existing adapters 
>> for a sample app, that would be great as well. I will try to share my 
>> learnings soon.
>>
>> Here are the ones I am going to test, am I missing any?
>>
>> 1. Django-mssql 
>>
>> 2. Django-pymssql 
>>
>> 3. Django-pyodbc-azure 
>>
>> 4. Django-pyodbc 
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Meet
>>
>> On Monday, August 31, 2015 at 4:58:40 PM UTC-7, Russell Keith-Magee wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Tim, Meet 
>>>
>>> I know this is very late to be mentioning, but one idea that worth 
>>> raising: DjangoCon US is next week (in Austin). Thursday and Friday 
>>> are coding sprints, where there will be many people (including a good 
>>> chunk of the core team) looking for projects to hack on. 
>>>
>>> Microsoft is already a sponsor of DjangoCon itself; if we can get some 
>>> engineers from the Azure team (assuming there aren't already some 
>>> coming), we can start some of this prep work. 
>>>
>>> Yours, 
>>> Russ Magee %-) 
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 3:46 AM, Tim Graham  wrote: 
>>> > To arrive at the best solution, I think a lot of discussion needs to 
>>> happen 
>>> > on this mailing list before October. As for me, besides the name of 
>>> some 
>>> > existing packages that offer SQL Server/Azure support, I know very 
>>> little 
>>> > about the current landscape so I really wouldn't have anything to 
>>> offer in a 
>>> > discussion, but there are others on this list who definitely do. 
>>> > 
>>> > The existing Microsoft database backends have come out of specific 
>>> developer 
>>> > needs and I think it would maximize success if your team were 
>>> personally 
>>> > invested  in the backend by building a Django application backed by 
>>> SQL 
>>> > Server/Azure. If I were a Microsoft engineer responsible for this 
>>> project, I 
>>> > would start by building a small Django application to solve some 
>>> problem 
>>> > that my team has. Then I would test it out with all the third-party 
>>> backends 
>>> > for Microsoft databases previously mentioned to get a feel for how 
>>> they 
>>> > work. I should learn enough to at least participate in a discussion 
>>> with 
>>> > other Django developers about the direction of this project. Ideally, 
>>> I 
>>> > would 

Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Ramiro Morales]

Hi all,

On Fri, Aug 21, 2015 at 2:39 PM, Meet Bhagdev  wrote:
> Hi Django Committers,
>
>
>
> My name is Meet Bhagdev, I work in the Database Systems engineering team at
> Microsoft in Seattle, WA. My focus is the APIs used to connect to and use
> Azure SQL Database and SQL Server (MSSQL). Example APIs are ODBC, JDBC,
> ADO.NET, etc.

(sorry for possibly repeating things folks have already posted to this thread)

Meet: Is this list of APIs the final and full one?

Because there is work being done on a different stack, the one formed by :

* FreeTDS (http://www.freetds.org/ GPL licensed) which implements the
wire-level TDS protocol.
* pymssql (http://pymssql.org LGPL licensed) -- Python bindings for
FreeTDS which implements the Python DB-API 2.0. I'm part of the team
maintaining it
* django-pymssql (https://github.com/aaugustin/django-pymssql ,
MIT-licensed) which was created by Aymeric Augustin and depends on
pymssql plus ...
* django-mssql (https://django-mssql.readthedocs.org/en/latest/ ,
MIT-licensed) which was created by Michael Manfre

Michael, Aymeric and me are Django development team members.

Personally, I've been working on stabilizing the lower layers by
following a "yak shaving" non-strategy:

We (the pymssql team) realised the official pymssql Windows binaries
(in particular the FreeTDS libraries) we published when releasing
pymssql 2.1.1 don't link in a SSL implementation and so they aren't
usable to actually connect to Azure even if the pymssql code iself has
such ability.

This, plus the fact that the manual process of creating the actual
matrix of Windows deliverables is a bit tedious led me to try using
the AppVeyor.com hosted Windows CI platform (free for open source
projects) to test and actually build the binaries. The work in
progress on this can be seen at
https://github.com/ramiro/pymssql/tree/appveyor and
https://ci.appveyor.com/project/ramiro/pymssql

(When working on pymssql 2.1.1 at some point I created a free Azure
account with my credit card, tested (on Linux) the pymssql
implementation of connection changes needed to get it to work against
Azure's SQL Server and cancelled it before it started billing.)

So, this led me to start contributing to FreeTDS so to get it back to
build cleanly on Windows (work partially included with the 0.95
release back in June) and to also get it built/tested using
AppVeyor.com using the experience gained with pymssql. This has been
already merged in the current FreeTDS development code and allows the
maintainer and contributors to work without access to Windows/SQL
Server licenses (my case).

- https://ci.appveyor.com/project/freetds/freetds
- 
https://github.com/FreeTDS/freetds/commit/3db5caa48f281f3558d4031cb5a0f0d8e8eef28c

I know MS dropped support of the DB-Library (and hence the API it
provides, of which FreeTDS is a open source implementation) back in
the SQL Server 2005 times. That's why I ask if this stack has any
chance of getting some  support from Microsoft.

Personal motivation for this is simply to get Django (running on
Linux) + SQL Server to be a viable choice, even when I currently have
no actual need of this. I was one of the two developers behind the
original django-pyodbc project which had reached "almost full Django
test suite passing" status back in the Django 1.0 & 1.1 (2008-2009)
times, but abandoned it when discoverd (by logging the traffic with
SQL Servr tools) that the combination of pyodbc + Linux ODBC stack
meant the queries were sent twice to the DB server, see
https://code.google.com/p/django-pyodbc/issues/detail?id=16 . This is
also why I started considering a FreeTDS-based solution a better
technical choice.

I'm posting a message to the FreeTDS mailing list later today pointing
to Meet's post which opened this thread.

Regards,

-- 
Ramiro Morales
@ramiromorales

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Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Tim Graham]

Hi Meet,

Will you be the primary contributor/maintainer from Microsoft of this 
project or will their be other engineers at Microsoft involved? I'd like to 
understand the bus factor on your side and how much time resources you plan 
to provide.

To give you an idea of how our community works when it comes to decision 
making and implementing large features, I thought you might find Aymeric's 
log of his work to add multiple template engines support to Django helpful: 
https://myks.org/en/multiple-template-engines-for-django/.

On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 at 10:52:31 PM UTC-4, Meet Bhagdev wrote:
>
>
> Hi Russ,Tim
> That is a great idea. I am going to try to engage with the team at 
> Microsoft who is in charge of the sponsorship. I plan on attending the 
> conference so I will see some of you there. 
>
> @Tim: I agree that a lot of ground work needs to be done in terms of 
> testing out the current third party adapters and deciding which one/ones 
> should we adopt and extend. I know Michael Manfre has a lot of expertise 
> here. I will do my due diligence and test out the existing solutions but if 
> Michael could share some of his findings, that would be great. If anyone 
> else also wants to take a stab at testing and using the existing adapters 
> for a sample app, that would be great as well. I will try to share my 
> learnings soon.
>
> Here are the ones I am going to test, am I missing any?
>
> 1. Django-mssql 
>
> 2. Django-pymssql 
>
> 3. Django-pyodbc-azure 
>
> 4. Django-pyodbc 
>
> Thanks,
> Meet
>
> On Monday, August 31, 2015 at 4:58:40 PM UTC-7, Russell Keith-Magee wrote:
>>
>> Hi Tim, Meet 
>>
>> I know this is very late to be mentioning, but one idea that worth 
>> raising: DjangoCon US is next week (in Austin). Thursday and Friday 
>> are coding sprints, where there will be many people (including a good 
>> chunk of the core team) looking for projects to hack on. 
>>
>> Microsoft is already a sponsor of DjangoCon itself; if we can get some 
>> engineers from the Azure team (assuming there aren't already some 
>> coming), we can start some of this prep work. 
>>
>> Yours, 
>> Russ Magee %-) 
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 3:46 AM, Tim Graham  wrote: 
>> > To arrive at the best solution, I think a lot of discussion needs to 
>> happen 
>> > on this mailing list before October. As for me, besides the name of 
>> some 
>> > existing packages that offer SQL Server/Azure support, I know very 
>> little 
>> > about the current landscape so I really wouldn't have anything to offer 
>> in a 
>> > discussion, but there are others on this list who definitely do. 
>> > 
>> > The existing Microsoft database backends have come out of specific 
>> developer 
>> > needs and I think it would maximize success if your team were 
>> personally 
>> > invested  in the backend by building a Django application backed by SQL 
>> > Server/Azure. If I were a Microsoft engineer responsible for this 
>> project, I 
>> > would start by building a small Django application to solve some 
>> problem 
>> > that my team has. Then I would test it out with all the third-party 
>> backends 
>> > for Microsoft databases previously mentioned to get a feel for how they 
>> > work. I should learn enough to at least participate in a discussion 
>> with 
>> > other Django developers about the direction of this project. Ideally, I 
>> > would be able to learn enough to write up a Django Enhancement Proposal 
>> [1] 
>> > that summarizes the landscape and describes what an "official solution" 
>> > should look like. 
>> > 
>> > If you are relying on members of the Django team to do all this upfront 
>> > work, then please tell us so we can see if someone will do it. If you 
>> are 
>> > expecting to get all this done in a couple days in Seattle, this 
>> doesn't 
>> > seem feasible to me. However, if we have a working proposal by 
>> mid-September 
>> > that the community can review and give feedback on, then I think our 
>> time 
>> > together in October could be productive. I don't know anything about 
>> the 
>> > background of your team, but it seems pretty unlikely that any sort of 
>> > coding sprint would be useful unless the work and learning I described 
>> > happens well before the workshop. 
>> > 
>> > [1] https://github.com/django/deps/ 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > On Monday, August 31, 2015 at 3:07:28 PM UTC-4, Meet Bhagdev wrote: 
>> >> 
>> >> Hi Tim, 
>> >> Thanks for bringing it up. Yes, we will have developers who will 
>> engage 
>> >> with Django developers (like yourself) during the workshop. 
>> >> 
>> >> The goals of the October workshop are to: 
>> >> 
>> >> 1)  Get to know each other and begin building a relationship 
>> >> 
>> >> 2)  Get in a room with Microsoft developers and discuss the 
>> current 
>> >> 

Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Meet Bhagdev]

Hi Russ,Tim
That is a great idea. I am going to try to engage with the team at 
Microsoft who is in charge of the sponsorship. I plan on attending the 
conference so I will see some of you there. 

@Tim: I agree that a lot of ground work needs to be done in terms of 
testing out the current third party adapters and deciding which one/ones 
should we adopt and extend. I know Michael Manfre has a lot of expertise 
here. I will do my due diligence and test out the existing solutions but if 
Michael could share some of his findings, that would be great. If anyone 
else also wants to take a stab at testing and using the existing adapters 
for a sample app, that would be great as well. I will try to share my 
learnings soon.

Here are the ones I am going to test, am I missing any?

1. Django-mssql 

2. Django-pymssql 

3. Django-pyodbc-azure 

4. Django-pyodbc 

Thanks,
Meet

On Monday, August 31, 2015 at 4:58:40 PM UTC-7, Russell Keith-Magee wrote:
>
> Hi Tim, Meet 
>
> I know this is very late to be mentioning, but one idea that worth 
> raising: DjangoCon US is next week (in Austin). Thursday and Friday 
> are coding sprints, where there will be many people (including a good 
> chunk of the core team) looking for projects to hack on. 
>
> Microsoft is already a sponsor of DjangoCon itself; if we can get some 
> engineers from the Azure team (assuming there aren't already some 
> coming), we can start some of this prep work. 
>
> Yours, 
> Russ Magee %-) 
>
> On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 3:46 AM, Tim Graham  > wrote: 
> > To arrive at the best solution, I think a lot of discussion needs to 
> happen 
> > on this mailing list before October. As for me, besides the name of some 
> > existing packages that offer SQL Server/Azure support, I know very 
> little 
> > about the current landscape so I really wouldn't have anything to offer 
> in a 
> > discussion, but there are others on this list who definitely do. 
> > 
> > The existing Microsoft database backends have come out of specific 
> developer 
> > needs and I think it would maximize success if your team were personally 
> > invested  in the backend by building a Django application backed by SQL 
> > Server/Azure. If I were a Microsoft engineer responsible for this 
> project, I 
> > would start by building a small Django application to solve some problem 
> > that my team has. Then I would test it out with all the third-party 
> backends 
> > for Microsoft databases previously mentioned to get a feel for how they 
> > work. I should learn enough to at least participate in a discussion with 
> > other Django developers about the direction of this project. Ideally, I 
> > would be able to learn enough to write up a Django Enhancement Proposal 
> [1] 
> > that summarizes the landscape and describes what an "official solution" 
> > should look like. 
> > 
> > If you are relying on members of the Django team to do all this upfront 
> > work, then please tell us so we can see if someone will do it. If you 
> are 
> > expecting to get all this done in a couple days in Seattle, this doesn't 
> > seem feasible to me. However, if we have a working proposal by 
> mid-September 
> > that the community can review and give feedback on, then I think our 
> time 
> > together in October could be productive. I don't know anything about the 
> > background of your team, but it seems pretty unlikely that any sort of 
> > coding sprint would be useful unless the work and learning I described 
> > happens well before the workshop. 
> > 
> > [1] https://github.com/django/deps/ 
> > 
> > 
> > On Monday, August 31, 2015 at 3:07:28 PM UTC-4, Meet Bhagdev wrote: 
> >> 
> >> Hi Tim, 
> >> Thanks for bringing it up. Yes, we will have developers who will engage 
> >> with Django developers (like yourself) during the workshop. 
> >> 
> >> The goals of the October workshop are to: 
> >> 
> >> 1)  Get to know each other and begin building a relationship 
> >> 
> >> 2)  Get in a room with Microsoft developers and discuss the current 
> >> landscape 
> >> 
> >> 3)  Work on half day coding sprint(s) with Microsoft developers to 
> get 
> >> started with contributions 
> >> 
> >> 4)  Establish a plan for how Microsoft can best contribute to 
> Django, 
> >> and ensure we have great integration between Azure SQL and MSSQL and 
> Django 
> >> by maintaining our contributions 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> The key takeaway is that we want to contribute to existing solutions to 
> >> improve the Django and MSSQL/Azure SQL story. To do so we want to 
> understand 
> >> the current landscape, the gaps, and the next steps to make this happen 
> (the 
> >> right way). 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> We are currently in the planning stages and would love to get feedback. 
> >> What do you think about the goals 

Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Meet Bhagdev]

Hi Russ,Tim
That is a great idea. I am going to try to engage with the team at 
Microsoft who is in charge of the sponsorship. I plan on attending the 
conference so I will see some of you there. 

@Tim: I agree that a lot of ground work needs to be done in terms of 
testing out the current third party adapters and deciding which one/ones 
should we adopt and extend. I know Michael Manfre has a lot of expertise 
here. I will do my due diligence and test out the existing solutions but if 
Michael could share some of his findings, that would be great. If anyone 
else also wants to take a stab at testing and using the existing adapters 
for a sample app, that would be great as well. I will try to share my 
learnings soon.

Here are the ones I am going to test, am I missing any?

1. Django-mssql 

2. Django-pymssql 

3. Django-pyodbc-azure 

4. Django-pyodbc 

Thanks,
Meet

That is a great idea. I am going to try to get hold of 
On Monday, August 31, 2015 at 4:58:40 PM UTC-7, Russell Keith-Magee wrote:
>
> Hi Tim, Meet 
>
> I know this is very late to be mentioning, but one idea that worth 
> raising: DjangoCon US is next week (in Austin). Thursday and Friday 
> are coding sprints, where there will be many people (including a good 
> chunk of the core team) looking for projects to hack on. 
>
> Microsoft is already a sponsor of DjangoCon itself; if we can get some 
> engineers from the Azure team (assuming there aren't already some 
> coming), we can start some of this prep work. 
>
> Yours, 
> Russ Magee %-) 
>
> On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 3:46 AM, Tim Graham  > wrote: 
> > To arrive at the best solution, I think a lot of discussion needs to 
> happen 
> > on this mailing list before October. As for me, besides the name of some 
> > existing packages that offer SQL Server/Azure support, I know very 
> little 
> > about the current landscape so I really wouldn't have anything to offer 
> in a 
> > discussion, but there are others on this list who definitely do. 
> > 
> > The existing Microsoft database backends have come out of specific 
> developer 
> > needs and I think it would maximize success if your team were personally 
> > invested  in the backend by building a Django application backed by SQL 
> > Server/Azure. If I were a Microsoft engineer responsible for this 
> project, I 
> > would start by building a small Django application to solve some problem 
> > that my team has. Then I would test it out with all the third-party 
> backends 
> > for Microsoft databases previously mentioned to get a feel for how they 
> > work. I should learn enough to at least participate in a discussion with 
> > other Django developers about the direction of this project. Ideally, I 
> > would be able to learn enough to write up a Django Enhancement Proposal 
> [1] 
> > that summarizes the landscape and describes what an "official solution" 
> > should look like. 
> > 
> > If you are relying on members of the Django team to do all this upfront 
> > work, then please tell us so we can see if someone will do it. If you 
> are 
> > expecting to get all this done in a couple days in Seattle, this doesn't 
> > seem feasible to me. However, if we have a working proposal by 
> mid-September 
> > that the community can review and give feedback on, then I think our 
> time 
> > together in October could be productive. I don't know anything about the 
> > background of your team, but it seems pretty unlikely that any sort of 
> > coding sprint would be useful unless the work and learning I described 
> > happens well before the workshop. 
> > 
> > [1] https://github.com/django/deps/ 
> > 
> > 
> > On Monday, August 31, 2015 at 3:07:28 PM UTC-4, Meet Bhagdev wrote: 
> >> 
> >> Hi Tim, 
> >> Thanks for bringing it up. Yes, we will have developers who will engage 
> >> with Django developers (like yourself) during the workshop. 
> >> 
> >> The goals of the October workshop are to: 
> >> 
> >> 1)  Get to know each other and begin building a relationship 
> >> 
> >> 2)  Get in a room with Microsoft developers and discuss the current 
> >> landscape 
> >> 
> >> 3)  Work on half day coding sprint(s) with Microsoft developers to 
> get 
> >> started with contributions 
> >> 
> >> 4)  Establish a plan for how Microsoft can best contribute to 
> Django, 
> >> and ensure we have great integration between Azure SQL and MSSQL and 
> Django 
> >> by maintaining our contributions 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> The key takeaway is that we want to contribute to existing solutions to 
> >> improve the Django and MSSQL/Azure SQL story. To do so we want to 
> understand 
> >> the current landscape, the gaps, and the next steps to make this happen 
> (the 
> >> right way). 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> We are currently in the planning stages and would love to get 

Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Russell Keith-Magee]

Hi Tim, Meet

I know this is very late to be mentioning, but one idea that worth
raising: DjangoCon US is next week (in Austin). Thursday and Friday
are coding sprints, where there will be many people (including a good
chunk of the core team) looking for projects to hack on.

Microsoft is already a sponsor of DjangoCon itself; if we can get some
engineers from the Azure team (assuming there aren't already some
coming), we can start some of this prep work.

Yours,
Russ Magee %-)

On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 3:46 AM, Tim Graham  wrote:
> To arrive at the best solution, I think a lot of discussion needs to happen
> on this mailing list before October. As for me, besides the name of some
> existing packages that offer SQL Server/Azure support, I know very little
> about the current landscape so I really wouldn't have anything to offer in a
> discussion, but there are others on this list who definitely do.
>
> The existing Microsoft database backends have come out of specific developer
> needs and I think it would maximize success if your team were personally
> invested  in the backend by building a Django application backed by SQL
> Server/Azure. If I were a Microsoft engineer responsible for this project, I
> would start by building a small Django application to solve some problem
> that my team has. Then I would test it out with all the third-party backends
> for Microsoft databases previously mentioned to get a feel for how they
> work. I should learn enough to at least participate in a discussion with
> other Django developers about the direction of this project. Ideally, I
> would be able to learn enough to write up a Django Enhancement Proposal [1]
> that summarizes the landscape and describes what an "official solution"
> should look like.
>
> If you are relying on members of the Django team to do all this upfront
> work, then please tell us so we can see if someone will do it. If you are
> expecting to get all this done in a couple days in Seattle, this doesn't
> seem feasible to me. However, if we have a working proposal by mid-September
> that the community can review and give feedback on, then I think our time
> together in October could be productive. I don't know anything about the
> background of your team, but it seems pretty unlikely that any sort of
> coding sprint would be useful unless the work and learning I described
> happens well before the workshop.
>
> [1] https://github.com/django/deps/
>
>
> On Monday, August 31, 2015 at 3:07:28 PM UTC-4, Meet Bhagdev wrote:
>>
>> Hi Tim,
>> Thanks for bringing it up. Yes, we will have developers who will engage
>> with Django developers (like yourself) during the workshop.
>>
>> The goals of the October workshop are to:
>>
>> 1)  Get to know each other and begin building a relationship
>>
>> 2)  Get in a room with Microsoft developers and discuss the current
>> landscape
>>
>> 3)  Work on half day coding sprint(s) with Microsoft developers to get
>> started with contributions
>>
>> 4)  Establish a plan for how Microsoft can best contribute to Django,
>> and ensure we have great integration between Azure SQL and MSSQL and Django
>> by maintaining our contributions
>>
>>
>> The key takeaway is that we want to contribute to existing solutions to
>> improve the Django and MSSQL/Azure SQL story. To do so we want to understand
>> the current landscape, the gaps, and the next steps to make this happen (the
>> right way).
>>
>>
>> We are currently in the planning stages and would love to get feedback.
>> What do you think about the goals mentioned above? Is there anything you
>> like to add/remove?
>>
>>
>> We can definitely make attending via Skype an option for attendees unable
>> to make it in person.
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Meet
>>
>>
>> On Monday, August 31, 2015 at 11:33:40 AM UTC-7, Tim Graham wrote:
>>>
>>> By "we" do you mean the engineers at Microsoft who will be working on
>>> this? Will they be doing any planning for this before the meet up in
>>> October? I'd like to know more specifics about the agenda and goals for the
>>> workshop.
>>>
>>> Also, I wanted to make sure my question about a videoconferencing option
>>> for Django developers interested in participating in the discussion at that
>>> time but unable to travel to Seattle didn't get lost.
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, August 25, 2015 at 7:53:48 PM UTC-4, Meet Bhagdev wrote:


 Absolutely agree with Tim here. We need to start exploring all the cool
 open sourced third party adapters. Borrowing/adopting them definitely seems
 like the way to go about things instead of re inventing the wheel. I tried
 doing some research and came across the following:

 1. Django-mssql

 2. Django-pymssql

 3. Django-pyodbc-azure

 4. Django-pyodbc


 Am I missing any?

 Best,
 Meet

 On Monday, August 24, 2015 at 11:12:44 AM UTC-7, Tim Graham wrote:
>
> I guess the first step is to 

Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Tim Graham]

To arrive at the best solution, I think a lot of discussion needs to happen 
on this mailing list before October. As for me, besides the name of some 
existing packages that offer SQL Server/Azure support, I know very little 
about the current landscape so I really wouldn't have anything to offer in 
a discussion, but there are others on this list who definitely do.

The existing Microsoft database backends have come out of specific 
developer needs and I think it would maximize success if your team were 
personally invested  in the backend by building a Django application backed 
by SQL Server/Azure. If I were a Microsoft engineer responsible for this 
project, I would start by building a small Django application to solve some 
problem that my team has. Then I would test it out with all the third-party 
backends for Microsoft databases previously mentioned to get a feel for how 
they work. I should learn enough to at least participate in a discussion 
with other Django developers about the direction of this project. Ideally, 
I would be able to learn enough to write up a Django Enhancement Proposal 
[1] that summarizes the landscape and describes what an "official solution" 
should look like.

If you are relying on members of the Django team to do all this upfront 
work, then please tell us so we can see if someone will do it. If you are 
expecting to get all this done in a couple days in Seattle, this doesn't 
seem feasible to me. However, if we have a working proposal by 
mid-September that the community can review and give feedback on, then I 
think our time together in October could be productive. I don't know 
anything about the background of your team, but it seems pretty unlikely 
that any sort of coding sprint would be useful unless the work and learning 
I described happens well before the workshop.

[1] https://github.com/django/deps/

On Monday, August 31, 2015 at 3:07:28 PM UTC-4, Meet Bhagdev wrote:
>
> Hi Tim,
> Thanks for bringing it up. Yes, we will have developers who will engage 
> with Django developers (like yourself) during the workshop. 
>
> The goals of the October workshop are to:
>
> 1)  Get to know each other and begin building a relationship
>
> 2)  Get in a room with Microsoft developers and discuss the current 
> landscape 
>
> 3)  Work on half day coding sprint(s) with Microsoft developers to get 
> started with contributions
>
> 4)  Establish a plan for how Microsoft can best contribute to Django, 
> and ensure we have great integration between Azure SQL and MSSQL and Django 
> by maintaining our contributions
>
>
> The key takeaway is that we want to contribute to existing solutions to 
> improve the Django and MSSQL/Azure SQL story. To do so we want to 
> understand the current landscape, the gaps, and the next steps to make this 
> happen (the right way).
>
>
> We are currently in the planning stages and would love to get feedback. 
> What do you think about the goals mentioned above? Is there anything you 
> like to add/remove?
>
>
> We can definitely make attending via Skype an option for attendees unable 
> to make it in person. 
>
>
> Best,
>
> Meet
>
>
> On Monday, August 31, 2015 at 11:33:40 AM UTC-7, Tim Graham wrote:
>>
>> By "we" do you mean the engineers at Microsoft who will be working on 
>> this? Will they be doing any planning for this before the meet up in 
>> October? I'd like to know more specifics about the agenda and goals for the 
>> workshop.
>>
>> Also, I wanted to make sure my question about a videoconferencing option 
>> for Django developers interested in participating in the discussion at that 
>> time but unable to travel to Seattle didn't get lost.
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 25, 2015 at 7:53:48 PM UTC-4, Meet Bhagdev wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Absolutely agree with Tim here. We need to start exploring all the cool 
>>> open sourced third party adapters. Borrowing/adopting them definitely seems 
>>> like the way to go about things instead of re inventing the wheel. I tried 
>>> doing some research and came across the following: 
>>>
>>> 1. Django-mssql 
>>>
>>> 2. Django-pymssql 
>>>
>>> 3. Django-pyodbc-azure 
>>>
>>> 4. Django-pyodbc 
>>>
>>>
>>> Am I missing any? 
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Meet
>>>
>>> On Monday, August 24, 2015 at 11:12:44 AM UTC-7, Tim Graham wrote:

 I guess the first step is to identify which third-party backend(s) 
 we'll target to adopt officially (or at least borrow from heavily). For 
 example, will we need separate backends for MSSQL and Azure? (Knowing 
 nothing about the landscape myself, this question could be nonsensical.) 
 Is 
 this discussion something that should happen before the October summit? It 
 seems to me the face-to-face time will likely be more productive if we 
 have 
 some of the 

Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Meet Bhagdev]

Hi Tim,
Thanks for bringing it up. Yes, we will have developers who will engage 
with Django developers (like yourself) during the workshop. 

The goals of the October workshop are to:

1)  Get to know each other and begin building a relationship

2)  Get in a room with Microsoft developers and discuss the current 
landscape 

3)  Work on half day coding sprint(s) with Microsoft developers to get 
started with contributions

4)  Establish a plan for how Microsoft can best contribute to Django, 
and ensure we have great integration between Azure SQL and MSSQL and Django 
by maintaining our contributions


The key takeaway is that we want to contribute to existing solutions to 
improve the Django and MSSQL/Azure SQL story. To do so we want to 
understand the current landscape, the gaps, and the next steps to make this 
happen (the right way).


We are currently in the planning stages and would love to get feedback. 
What do you think about the goals mentioned above? Is there anything you 
like to add/remove?


We can definitely make attending via Skype an option for attendees unable 
to make it in person. 


Best,

Meet


On Monday, August 31, 2015 at 11:33:40 AM UTC-7, Tim Graham wrote:
>
> By "we" do you mean the engineers at Microsoft who will be working on 
> this? Will they be doing any planning for this before the meet up in 
> October? I'd like to know more specifics about the agenda and goals for the 
> workshop.
>
> Also, I wanted to make sure my question about a videoconferencing option 
> for Django developers interested in participating in the discussion at that 
> time but unable to travel to Seattle didn't get lost.
>
> On Tuesday, August 25, 2015 at 7:53:48 PM UTC-4, Meet Bhagdev wrote:
>>
>>
>> Absolutely agree with Tim here. We need to start exploring all the cool 
>> open sourced third party adapters. Borrowing/adopting them definitely seems 
>> like the way to go about things instead of re inventing the wheel. I tried 
>> doing some research and came across the following: 
>>
>> 1. Django-mssql 
>>
>> 2. Django-pymssql 
>>
>> 3. Django-pyodbc-azure 
>>
>> 4. Django-pyodbc 
>>
>>
>> Am I missing any? 
>>
>> Best,
>> Meet
>>
>> On Monday, August 24, 2015 at 11:12:44 AM UTC-7, Tim Graham wrote:
>>>
>>> I guess the first step is to identify which third-party backend(s) we'll 
>>> target to adopt officially (or at least borrow from heavily). For example, 
>>> will we need separate backends for MSSQL and Azure? (Knowing nothing about 
>>> the landscape myself, this question could be nonsensical.) Is this 
>>> discussion something that should happen before the October summit? It seems 
>>> to me the face-to-face time will likely be more productive if we have some 
>>> of the high-level details ironed out.
>>>
>>> By the way, is videoconferencing an option for Django developers 
>>> interested in participating in the discussion at that time but unable to 
>>> travel to Seattle?
>>>
>>> On Saturday, August 22, 2015 at 5:53:37 PM UTC-4, Shai Berger wrote:

 On Saturday 22 August 2015 13:28:31 Aymeric Augustin wrote:

 > 

 > There isn’t such a clear story for running Django on Linux. This led 
 me to

 > write https://github.com/aaugustin/django-pymssql. Alternatives 
 include

 > https://github.com/denisenkom/django-sqlserver and

 > https://github.com/lionheart/django-pyodbc.

  

 There's also django-pyodbc-azure 
 , a fork of 
 django-pyodbc (actually, the current django-pyodbc is also a fork of the 
 original project, which has been discontinued). I took the liberty to 
 forward the message to that project.

  

 Shai.

>>>

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Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Tim Graham]

By "we" do you mean the engineers at Microsoft who will be working on this? 
Will they be doing any planning for this before the meet up in October? I'd 
like to know more specifics about the agenda and goals for the workshop.

Also, I wanted to make sure my question about a videoconferencing option 
for Django developers interested in participating in the discussion at that 
time but unable to travel to Seattle didn't get lost.

On Tuesday, August 25, 2015 at 7:53:48 PM UTC-4, Meet Bhagdev wrote:
>
>
> Absolutely agree with Tim here. We need to start exploring all the cool 
> open sourced third party adapters. Borrowing/adopting them definitely seems 
> like the way to go about things instead of re inventing the wheel. I tried 
> doing some research and came across the following: 
>
> 1. Django-mssql 
>
> 2. Django-pymssql 
>
> 3. Django-pyodbc-azure 
>
> 4. Django-pyodbc 
>
>
> Am I missing any? 
>
> Best,
> Meet
>
> On Monday, August 24, 2015 at 11:12:44 AM UTC-7, Tim Graham wrote:
>>
>> I guess the first step is to identify which third-party backend(s) we'll 
>> target to adopt officially (or at least borrow from heavily). For example, 
>> will we need separate backends for MSSQL and Azure? (Knowing nothing about 
>> the landscape myself, this question could be nonsensical.) Is this 
>> discussion something that should happen before the October summit? It seems 
>> to me the face-to-face time will likely be more productive if we have some 
>> of the high-level details ironed out.
>>
>> By the way, is videoconferencing an option for Django developers 
>> interested in participating in the discussion at that time but unable to 
>> travel to Seattle?
>>
>> On Saturday, August 22, 2015 at 5:53:37 PM UTC-4, Shai Berger wrote:
>>>
>>> On Saturday 22 August 2015 13:28:31 Aymeric Augustin wrote:
>>>
>>> > 
>>>
>>> > There isn’t such a clear story for running Django on Linux. This led 
>>> me to
>>>
>>> > write https://github.com/aaugustin/django-pymssql. Alternatives 
>>> include
>>>
>>> > https://github.com/denisenkom/django-sqlserver and
>>>
>>> > https://github.com/lionheart/django-pyodbc.
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> There's also django-pyodbc-azure 
>>> , a fork of 
>>> django-pyodbc (actually, the current django-pyodbc is also a fork of the 
>>> original project, which has been discontinued). I took the liberty to 
>>> forward the message to that project.
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> Shai.
>>>
>>

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Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Russell Keith-Magee]

Hi Meet,

The Fellowship committee has just approved this, so go ahead and plan
whatever you need to plan.

Yours,
Russ Magee %-)

On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 6:21 AM, Meet Bhagdev  wrote:

> Thanks Russ!
>
> On Tuesday, August 25, 2015 at 6:34:54 PM UTC-7, Russell Keith-Magee wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 22, 2015 at 8:28 PM, Tim Graham  wrote:
>>
>>> I agree it would be great to get some help running the Django tests on
>>> Windows. I run them in a local virtual machine every so often, but I would
>>> love to be able to delegate fixing Windows issues. Meet, can your team
>>> provide ongoing help with fixing Windows-specific issues in Django, even if
>>> they aren't related to MSSQL/Azure? That is something where we've had a
>>> hard time finding volunteers to help with and is obviously important if we
>>> want to claim 1st-class support for Windows.
>>>
>>> I don't have any experience with MSSQL/Azure, but I could probably
>>> attend the October 13-15 event at Microsoft if you think my participation
>>> would be valuable and if the DSF were to approve the time commitment as
>>> part of the fellow duties.
>>>
>>
>> I don't see why this would be a problem - I'll run it past the fellowship
>> committee and get their OK.
>>
>> Russ %-)
>>
>>
>> --
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> .
>
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
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Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Meet Bhagdev]

Thanks Russ!

On Tuesday, August 25, 2015 at 6:34:54 PM UTC-7, Russell Keith-Magee wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 22, 2015 at 8:28 PM, Tim Graham  > wrote:
>
>> I agree it would be great to get some help running the Django tests on 
>> Windows. I run them in a local virtual machine every so often, but I would 
>> love to be able to delegate fixing Windows issues. Meet, can your team 
>> provide ongoing help with fixing Windows-specific issues in Django, even if 
>> they aren't related to MSSQL/Azure? That is something where we've had a 
>> hard time finding volunteers to help with and is obviously important if we 
>> want to claim 1st-class support for Windows.
>>
>> I don't have any experience with MSSQL/Azure, but I could probably attend 
>> the October 13-15 event at Microsoft if you think my participation would be 
>> valuable and if the DSF were to approve the time commitment as part of the 
>> fellow duties.
>>
>
> I don't see why this would be a problem - I'll run it past the fellowship 
> committee and get their OK.
>
> Russ %-)
>
>
>

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Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Russell Keith-Magee]

On Sat, Aug 22, 2015 at 8:28 PM, Tim Graham  wrote:

> I agree it would be great to get some help running the Django tests on
> Windows. I run them in a local virtual machine every so often, but I would
> love to be able to delegate fixing Windows issues. Meet, can your team
> provide ongoing help with fixing Windows-specific issues in Django, even if
> they aren't related to MSSQL/Azure? That is something where we've had a
> hard time finding volunteers to help with and is obviously important if we
> want to claim 1st-class support for Windows.
>
> I don't have any experience with MSSQL/Azure, but I could probably attend
> the October 13-15 event at Microsoft if you think my participation would be
> valuable and if the DSF were to approve the time commitment as part of the
> fellow duties.
>

I don't see why this would be a problem - I'll run it past the fellowship
committee and get their OK.

Russ %-)

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Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Meet Bhagdev]

Absolutely agree with Tim here. We need to start exploring all the cool 
open sourced third party adapters. Borrowing/adopting them definitely seems 
like the way to go about things instead of re inventing the wheel. I tried 
doing some research and came across the following: 

1. Django-mssql 

2. Django-pymssql 

3. Django-pyodbc-azure 

4. Django-pyodbc 


Am I missing any? 

Best,
Meet

On Monday, August 24, 2015 at 11:12:44 AM UTC-7, Tim Graham wrote:
>
> I guess the first step is to identify which third-party backend(s) we'll 
> target to adopt officially (or at least borrow from heavily). For example, 
> will we need separate backends for MSSQL and Azure? (Knowing nothing about 
> the landscape myself, this question could be nonsensical.) Is this 
> discussion something that should happen before the October summit? It seems 
> to me the face-to-face time will likely be more productive if we have some 
> of the high-level details ironed out.
>
> By the way, is videoconferencing an option for Django developers 
> interested in participating in the discussion at that time but unable to 
> travel to Seattle?
>
> On Saturday, August 22, 2015 at 5:53:37 PM UTC-4, Shai Berger wrote:
>>
>> On Saturday 22 August 2015 13:28:31 Aymeric Augustin wrote:
>>
>> > 
>>
>> > There isn’t such a clear story for running Django on Linux. This led me 
>> to
>>
>> > write https://github.com/aaugustin/django-pymssql. Alternatives include
>>
>> > https://github.com/denisenkom/django-sqlserver and
>>
>> > https://github.com/lionheart/django-pyodbc.
>>
>>  
>>
>> There's also django-pyodbc-azure 
>> , a fork of 
>> django-pyodbc (actually, the current django-pyodbc is also a fork of the 
>> original project, which has been discontinued). I took the liberty to 
>> forward the message to that project.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Shai.
>>
>

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Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Tim Graham]

I guess the first step is to identify which third-party backend(s) we'll 
target to adopt officially (or at least borrow from heavily). For example, 
will we need separate backends for MSSQL and Azure? (Knowing nothing about 
the landscape myself, this question could be nonsensical.) Is this 
discussion something that should happen before the October summit? It seems 
to me the face-to-face time will likely be more productive if we have some 
of the high-level details ironed out.

By the way, is videoconferencing an option for Django developers interested 
in participating in the discussion at that time but unable to travel to 
Seattle?

On Saturday, August 22, 2015 at 5:53:37 PM UTC-4, Shai Berger wrote:
>
> On Saturday 22 August 2015 13:28:31 Aymeric Augustin wrote:
>
> > 
>
> > There isn’t such a clear story for running Django on Linux. This led me 
> to
>
> > write https://github.com/aaugustin/django-pymssql. Alternatives include
>
> > https://github.com/denisenkom/django-sqlserver and
>
> > https://github.com/lionheart/django-pyodbc.
>
>  
>
> There's also django-pyodbc-azure 
> , a fork of 
> django-pyodbc (actually, the current django-pyodbc is also a fork of the 
> original project, which has been discontinued). I took the liberty to 
> forward the message to that project.
>
>  
>
> Shai.
>

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Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Shai Berger]

On Saturday 22 August 2015 13:28:31 Aymeric Augustin wrote:
> 
> There isn’t such a clear story for running Django on Linux. This led me to
> write https://github.com/aaugustin/django-pymssql. Alternatives include
> https://github.com/denisenkom/django-sqlserver and
> https://github.com/lionheart/django-pyodbc.

There's also django-pyodbc-azure, a fork of django-pyodbc (actually, the 
current django-pyodbc is also a fork of the original project, which has been 
discontinued). I took the liberty to forward the message to that project.

Shai.

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Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Tim Graham]

I agree it would be great to get some help running the Django tests on 
Windows. I run them in a local virtual machine every so often, but I would 
love to be able to delegate fixing Windows issues. Meet, can your team 
provide ongoing help with fixing Windows-specific issues in Django, even if 
they aren't related to MSSQL/Azure? That is something where we've had a 
hard time finding volunteers to help with and is obviously important if we 
want to claim 1st-class support for Windows.

I don't have any experience with MSSQL/Azure, but I could probably attend 
the October 13-15 event at Microsoft if you think my participation would be 
valuable and if the DSF were to approve the time commitment as part of the 
fellow duties.

On Saturday, August 22, 2015 at 6:28:58 AM UTC-4, Aymeric Augustin wrote:
>
> Hello Meet,
>
> On 21 août 2015, at 19:39, Meet Bhagdev  
> wrote:
>   
>
> We’d love for Django users to have a solid option to use MSSQL and Azure 
> SQL if they wish, and it would be great to make this option a reality.
>
>
> Even though this isn’t what you’re asking for :-) I’ll take this 
> opportunity to summarize the landscape for combining Django and MSSQL / 
> Azure SQL, as far as I understand it.
>
> There’s a good option for MSSQL or Azure SQL users running Django on 
> Windows: https://bitbucket.org/Manfre/django-mssql. (Perhaps it could be 
> made even better, but from my perspective, it’s solid.)
>
> There’ve been talks of making it more official. But no consensus has been 
> found yet. The main difficulty is that very few Django committers use 
> Windows as a primary OS, perhaps two out of fifty. Most of us don’t even 
> own a Windows license. We face a similar issue with our continuous 
> integration. Currently it’s running on Linux. We lack the skills and money 
> to run Windows and SQL Server. (Sponsoring in the form of Azure SQL credits 
> for the purpose of testing Django may solve parts of this problem, if using 
> a remote database isn’t too slow for test suite’s workload.)
>
> There isn’t such a clear story for running Django on Linux. This led me to 
> write https://github.com/aaugustin/django-pymssql. Alternatives include 
> https://github.com/denisenkom/django-sqlserver and 
> https://github.com/lionheart/django-pyodbc.
>
> I can’t say django-pymssql is solid. But it works and it shows that 
> django-mssql could be made cross-platform with limited effort, subject to 
> the quality of the underlying libraries: 
> https://github.com/pymssql/pymssql and https://github.com/FreeTDS/freetds. 
> However my interest has faded since I left the company where I had this use 
> case. Furthermore testing is very painful. I'm running SQL Server Express 
> in a VM. Tests are about 20 times slower than with PostgreSQL or MySQL. As 
> a consequence Django’s test suite took about 2 hours. 
>
> I appreciate the invitation. Unfortunately I live a bit too far to make 
> the trip conveniently. I’m still interested in making Django work out of 
> the box with SQL Server like it does with Oracle. (That’s for historical 
> reasons: some people gathered and made it happen). I believe 
> interoperability with SQL Server is key for using Django in the 
> medium-sized companies where SQL Server is the obvious choice of database 
> server.
>
> I hope this helps. Thanks for reaching out!
>
> -- 
> Aymeric.
>
>

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Re: Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Aymeric Augustin]

Hello Meet,

On 21 août 2015, at 19:39, Meet Bhagdev  wrote:
  
> We’d love for Django users to have a solid option to use MSSQL and Azure SQL 
> if they wish, and it would be great to make this option a reality.

Even though this isn’t what you’re asking for :-) I’ll take this opportunity to 
summarize the landscape for combining Django and MSSQL / Azure SQL, as far as I 
understand it.

There’s a good option for MSSQL or Azure SQL users running Django on Windows: 
https://bitbucket.org/Manfre/django-mssql 
. (Perhaps it could be made even 
better, but from my perspective, it’s solid.)

There’ve been talks of making it more official. But no consensus has been found 
yet. The main difficulty is that very few Django committers use Windows as a 
primary OS, perhaps two out of fifty. Most of us don’t even own a Windows 
license. We face a similar issue with our continuous integration. Currently 
it’s running on Linux. We lack the skills and money to run Windows and SQL 
Server. (Sponsoring in the form of Azure SQL credits for the purpose of testing 
Django may solve parts of this problem, if using a remote database isn’t too 
slow for test suite’s workload.)

There isn’t such a clear story for running Django on Linux. This led me to 
write https://github.com/aaugustin/django-pymssql 
. Alternatives include 
https://github.com/denisenkom/django-sqlserver 
 and 
https://github.com/lionheart/django-pyodbc 
.

I can’t say django-pymssql is solid. But it works and it shows that 
django-mssql could be made cross-platform with limited effort, subject to the 
quality of the underlying libraries: https://github.com/pymssql/pymssql 
 and https://github.com/FreeTDS/freetds 
. However my interest has faded since I 
left the company where I had this use case. Furthermore testing is very 
painful. I'm running SQL Server Express in a VM. Tests are about 20 times 
slower than with PostgreSQL or MySQL. As a consequence Django’s test suite took 
about 2 hours. 

I appreciate the invitation. Unfortunately I live a bit too far to make the 
trip conveniently. I’m still interested in making Django work out of the box 
with SQL Server like it does with Oracle. (That’s for historical reasons: some 
people gathered and made it happen). I believe interoperability with SQL Server 
is key for using Django in the medium-sized companies where SQL Server is the 
obvious choice of database server.

I hope this helps. Thanks for reaching out!

-- 
Aymeric.

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Improving MSSQL and Azure SQL support on Django

[Meet Bhagdev]

Hi Django Committers,

 

My name is Meet Bhagdev, I work in the Database Systems engineering team at 
Microsoft in Seattle, WA. My focus is the APIs used to connect to and 
use Azure SQL Database and SQL Server (MSSQL). Example APIs are ODBC, JDBC, 
ADO.NET, etc.

 

We’d love for Django users to have a solid option to use MSSQL and Azure 
SQL if they wish, and it would be great to make this option a reality. Our 
goal is to partner with committers like yourself to bring first-class 
support for MSSQL to Django. We want to bring the benefits of Django to 
millions of existing MSSQL and Azure SQL customers as well as folks that 
would like to evaluate us as a database option for Django.

 

I have been in touch with Tim Graham and Russell Keith-Magee related to us 
building such support. We are prepared to 
make the engineering investment required on our end and to work with the 
Django community to make this happen, the right way. We are willing to do 
all the heavy lifting, but we do need your help and guidance.

 

At Microsoft we have an existing program for bringing partners and 
eco-system developers to Seattle, WA, all expenses paid, and we’d like to 
extend this to the Django committers. This would be a great way to get 
started. We would love to get a group of you here during our October 
workshop. The idea is to get developers from both sides to meet and learn 
from each other—Django and Microsoft.

 

Please reach out me at me...@microsoft.com or give me a call on +1 425 722 
5342 if you would like to attend. Would love to get you more details.

 

Sincerely,

Meet Bhagdev | Linkedin 
 | Github 


 

P.S. This is not a sales pitch; we are excited about bringing the benefits 
of Django to our customers.:)

 

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