Re: discontinue shipping tests with contrib apps?

[Aymeric Augustin]

Hello,

I find the flat structure in tests/ quite convenient, especially for making 
large changes, also in combination with shell globbing. Merging modeltests and 
regressiontests was a win.

I'm not convinced a contrib folder would help much. Reserving foo_* for contrib 
app foo sounds sufficient.

-- 
Aymeric.

> Le 11 févr. 2015 à 01:39, Tim Graham  a écrit :
> 
> I don't have a strong opinion on a nested structure for the tests; I merely 
> followed the existing convention for contrib tests that were already in 
> tests/. Note that if we do nest, we still need the "_tests" suffix (or some 
> distinction so to prevent duplicate app_labels from the contrib apps 
> themselves). A nested structure will require additional changes to 
> runtests.py to make it "smarter", and of course moving more tests.
> 
>> On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 at 5:11:10 PM UTC-5, Shai Berger wrote:
>> On Monday 09 February 2015 17:38:27 Markus Holtermann wrote: 
>> > I'm +1 on moving the contrib tests to tests/_tests/ . 
>> > 
>> I'm +1 on preventing tests from being packaged with the contrib apps; 
>> I'm also +1 on moving them out of the app folders in the source -- +0 for 
>> the 
>> move's inherent value, but +1 because it makes the above packaging easier. 
>> 
>> But I'm not sure tests/_tests/ is the best destination -- I think 
>> that, just like the contrib apps themselves are collected in a folder, their 
>> tests should be too. Either django/contrib/tests/ or tests/contrib/ seem 
>> appropriate. 
>> 
>> The point is to keep it clear that the core does not depend on contrib, and 
>> to 
>> make it easier to remove all of contrib to prove it. 
>> 
>> Shai.
> 
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Re: discontinue shipping tests with contrib apps?

[Tim Graham]

I don't have a strong opinion on a nested structure for the tests; I merely 
followed the existing convention for contrib tests that were already in 
tests/. Note that if we do nest, we still need the "_tests" suffix (or some 
distinction so to prevent duplicate app_labels from the contrib apps 
themselves). A nested structure will require additional changes to 
runtests.py to make it "smarter", and of course moving more tests.

On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 at 5:11:10 PM UTC-5, Shai Berger wrote:
>
> On Monday 09 February 2015 17:38:27 Markus Holtermann wrote: 
> > I'm +1 on moving the contrib tests to tests/_tests/ . 
> > 
> I'm +1 on preventing tests from being packaged with the contrib apps; 
> I'm also +1 on moving them out of the app folders in the source -- +0 for 
> the 
> move's inherent value, but +1 because it makes the above packaging easier. 
>
> But I'm not sure tests/_tests/ is the best destination -- I 
> think 
> that, just like the contrib apps themselves are collected in a folder, 
> their 
> tests should be too. Either django/contrib/tests/ or tests/contrib/ seem 
> appropriate. 
>
> The point is to keep it clear that the core does not depend on contrib, 
> and to 
> make it easier to remove all of contrib to prove it. 
>
> Shai. 
>

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Re: discontinue shipping tests with contrib apps?

[Shai Berger]

On Monday 09 February 2015 17:38:27 Markus Holtermann wrote:
> I'm +1 on moving the contrib tests to tests/_tests/ .
> 
I'm +1 on preventing tests from being packaged with the contrib apps;
I'm also +1 on moving them out of the app folders in the source -- +0 for the 
move's inherent value, but +1 because it makes the above packaging easier.

But I'm not sure tests/_tests/ is the best destination -- I think 
that, just like the contrib apps themselves are collected in a folder, their 
tests should be too. Either django/contrib/tests/ or tests/contrib/ seem 
appropriate.

The point is to keep it clear that the core does not depend on contrib, and to 
make it easier to remove all of contrib to prove it.

Shai.

Re: discontinue shipping tests with contrib apps?

[Tim Graham]

PR is ready for review: https://github.com/django/django/pull/4106

On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 at 12:00:13 PM UTC-5, Carl Meyer wrote:
>
> On 02/10/2015 12:08 AM, Jannis Leidel wrote: 
> >> On 10 Feb 2015, at 00:12, Tim Graham  
> wrote: 
> >> 
> >> Is it a best practice? In my unscientific sampling, none of the 
> >> following ship tests inside the application directory, but rather 
> >> in a separate "tests" directory. Or did I misunderstand what you 
> >> meant? 
> >> 
> >> - Django REST framework - django-nap - the apps that split out from 
> >> contrib (formtools, comments, localflavor) 
> > 
> > I think there's been a tendency in the past years ever since we saw 
> > an increasing adoption of the unittest2 discover runner anecdotally 
> > (and maybe also the Nose and pytest runners) to localize reusable app 
> > tests outside their main package to not accidentally trigger them 
> > when installed in a Django project that uses the old style test 
> > runner. 
> > 
> > That's also been the reason why I moved the tests outside of 
> > formtools, localflavor and almost all my apps – providing tests in 
> > app repos makes sense, but to me the reason to put them into the main 
> > package is mostly historical, so nothing I would want to continue to 
> > promote for the freshly extracted localflavor and formtools apps. 
> > 
> > IIRC Carl had a more elaborate explanation at the time we were adding 
> > the discover runner to Django, but that's my gist of it. 
>
> Elaborate explanation? Sounds like me! :-) 
>
> The reason I've generally moved tests outside of reusable apps is the 
> one Jannis mentions - avoiding having the old pre-discovery runner run 
> them in people's projects. I think this reason becomes less relevant 
> with time. 
>
> Though I generally prefer separating test code from production code 
> anyway, even without any Django-specific considerations. 
>
> Carl 
>
>

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Re: discontinue shipping tests with contrib apps?

[Carl Meyer]

On 02/10/2015 12:08 AM, Jannis Leidel wrote:
>> On 10 Feb 2015, at 00:12, Tim Graham  wrote:
>> 
>> Is it a best practice? In my unscientific sampling, none of the
>> following ship tests inside the application directory, but rather
>> in a separate "tests" directory. Or did I misunderstand what you
>> meant?
>> 
>> - Django REST framework - django-nap - the apps that split out from
>> contrib (formtools, comments, localflavor)
> 
> I think there's been a tendency in the past years ever since we saw
> an increasing adoption of the unittest2 discover runner anecdotally
> (and maybe also the Nose and pytest runners) to localize reusable app
> tests outside their main package to not accidentally trigger them
> when installed in a Django project that uses the old style test
> runner.
> 
> That's also been the reason why I moved the tests outside of
> formtools, localflavor and almost all my apps – providing tests in
> app repos makes sense, but to me the reason to put them into the main
> package is mostly historical, so nothing I would want to continue to
> promote for the freshly extracted localflavor and formtools apps.
> 
> IIRC Carl had a more elaborate explanation at the time we were adding
> the discover runner to Django, but that's my gist of it.

Elaborate explanation? Sounds like me! :-)

The reason I've generally moved tests outside of reusable apps is the
one Jannis mentions - avoiding having the old pre-discovery runner run
them in people's projects. I think this reason becomes less relevant
with time.

Though I generally prefer separating test code from production code
anyway, even without any Django-specific considerations.

Carl

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Re: discontinue shipping tests with contrib apps?

[Preston Timmons]

The trickiest tests to move will be the gis tests.

When gis is enabled, django/contrib/gis/tests is added to the discovery 
path. This doesn't affect which tests are discovered per se--all gis tests 
are discovered anyway by discovery on the parent app 
django.contrib.gis--but it causes the later side-effect of 
django.contrib.gis.tests.geo3d, django.contrib.gis.tests.geoapp, etc. being 
added to INSTALLED_APPS during the test run. The purpose of this logic is 
to avoid running migrations when gis isn't enabled.

If the test apps stay as subdirectories in the gis test folder, runtests.py 
will need to be updated accordingly. If the namespace is made flat instead, 
we'd need to update runtests.py to do something like filter out gis_* apps 
from INSTALLED_APPS when not available.

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Re: discontinue shipping tests with contrib apps?

[Jannis Leidel]

> On 10 Feb 2015, at 00:12, Tim Graham  wrote:
> 
> Is it a best practice? In my unscientific sampling, none of the following 
> ship tests inside the application directory, but rather in a separate "tests" 
> directory. Or did I misunderstand what you meant?
> 
> - Django REST framework
> - django-nap
> - the apps that split out from contrib (formtools, comments, localflavor)

I think there's been a tendency in the past years ever since we saw an 
increasing adoption of the unittest2 discover runner anecdotally (and maybe 
also the Nose and pytest runners) to localize reusable app tests outside their 
main package to not accidentally trigger them when installed in a Django 
project that uses the old style test runner.

That's also been the reason why I moved the tests outside of formtools, 
localflavor and almost all my apps – providing tests in app repos makes sense, 
but to me the reason to put them into the main package is mostly historical, so 
nothing I would want to continue to promote for the freshly extracted 
localflavor and formtools apps.

IIRC Carl had a more elaborate explanation at the time we were adding the 
discover runner to Django, but that's my gist of it.

+0 for moving app tests outside the contrib apps folders but +1 on updating the 
app docs to promote tests outside the main packages.

Jannis

> On Monday, February 9, 2015 at 5:28:22 PM UTC-5, Curtis Maloney wrote:
> Just to shine a light on another perspective- I frequently tell people to 
> look at contrib for "best practices", and including tests within a 3rd party 
> app would fall under that.
> 
> --
> Curtis
> 
> On 10 Feb 2015 03:34, "Marc Tamlyn"  wrote:
> +1 to removing tests from contrib itself, so long as they remain obviously 
> separated in the test section in case of future removals from core.
> 
> On 9 February 2015 at 15:44, Preston Timmons  wrote:
> I think the "need" is mainly conceptual--whether tests are more appropriately 
> grouped with their app or with the other tests. With the discover runner it's 
> uncommon that contrib tests are included in any local test runs.
> 
> I do prefer moving all tests into the tests directory. The logic to get 
> test_modules in runtests.py would be simplified quite a bit from it.
> 
> 
> 
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Re: discontinue shipping tests with contrib apps?

[Curtis Maloney]

That'll teach me to respond to email before coffee :)

--
C


On 10 February 2015 at 10:12, Tim Graham  wrote:

> Is it a best practice? In my unscientific sampling, none of the following
> ship tests inside the application directory, but rather in a separate
> "tests" directory. Or did I misunderstand what you meant?
>
> - Django REST framework
> - django-nap
> - the apps that split out from contrib (formtools, comments, localflavor)
>
> On Monday, February 9, 2015 at 5:28:22 PM UTC-5, Curtis Maloney wrote:
>>
>> Just to shine a light on another perspective- I frequently tell people to
>> look at contrib for "best practices", and including tests within a 3rd
>> party app would fall under that.
>>
>> --
>> Curtis
>> On 10 Feb 2015 03:34, "Marc Tamlyn"  wrote:
>>
>>> +1 to removing tests from contrib itself, so long as they remain
>>> obviously separated in the test section in case of future removals from
>>> core.
>>>
>>> On 9 February 2015 at 15:44, Preston Timmons 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I think the "need" is mainly conceptual--whether tests are more
 appropriately grouped with their app or with the other tests. With the
 discover runner it's uncommon that contrib tests are included in any local
 test runs.

 I do prefer moving all tests into the tests directory. The logic to get
 test_modules in runtests.py would be simplified quite a bit from it.


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Re: discontinue shipping tests with contrib apps?

[Tim Graham]

Is it a best practice? In my unscientific sampling, none of the following 
ship tests inside the application directory, but rather in a separate 
"tests" directory. Or did I misunderstand what you meant?

- Django REST framework
- django-nap
- the apps that split out from contrib (formtools, comments, localflavor)

On Monday, February 9, 2015 at 5:28:22 PM UTC-5, Curtis Maloney wrote:
>
> Just to shine a light on another perspective- I frequently tell people to 
> look at contrib for "best practices", and including tests within a 3rd 
> party app would fall under that.
>
> --
> Curtis
> On 10 Feb 2015 03:34, "Marc Tamlyn"  
> wrote:
>
>> +1 to removing tests from contrib itself, so long as they remain 
>> obviously separated in the test section in case of future removals from 
>> core.
>>
>> On 9 February 2015 at 15:44, Preston Timmons > > wrote:
>>
>>> I think the "need" is mainly conceptual--whether tests are more 
>>> appropriately grouped with their app or with the other tests. With the 
>>> discover runner it's uncommon that contrib tests are included in any local 
>>> test runs.
>>>
>>> I do prefer moving all tests into the tests directory. The logic to get 
>>> test_modules in runtests.py would be simplified quite a bit from it.
>>>
>>>
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Re: discontinue shipping tests with contrib apps?

[Curtis Maloney]

Just to shine a light on another perspective- I frequently tell people to
look at contrib for "best practices", and including tests within a 3rd
party app would fall under that.

--
Curtis
On 10 Feb 2015 03:34, "Marc Tamlyn"  wrote:

> +1 to removing tests from contrib itself, so long as they remain obviously
> separated in the test section in case of future removals from core.
>
> On 9 February 2015 at 15:44, Preston Timmons 
> wrote:
>
>> I think the "need" is mainly conceptual--whether tests are more
>> appropriately grouped with their app or with the other tests. With the
>> discover runner it's uncommon that contrib tests are included in any local
>> test runs.
>>
>> I do prefer moving all tests into the tests directory. The logic to get
>> test_modules in runtests.py would be simplified quite a bit from it.
>>
>>
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>> .
>>
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Re: discontinue shipping tests with contrib apps?

[Marc Tamlyn]

+1 to removing tests from contrib itself, so long as they remain obviously
separated in the test section in case of future removals from core.

On 9 February 2015 at 15:44, Preston Timmons 
wrote:

> I think the "need" is mainly conceptual--whether tests are more
> appropriately grouped with their app or with the other tests. With the
> discover runner it's uncommon that contrib tests are included in any local
> test runs.
>
> I do prefer moving all tests into the tests directory. The logic to get
> test_modules in runtests.py would be simplified quite a bit from it.
>
>
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Re: discontinue shipping tests with contrib apps?

[Preston Timmons]

I think the "need" is mainly conceptual--whether tests are more 
appropriately grouped with their app or with the other tests. With the 
discover runner it's uncommon that contrib tests are included in any local 
test runs.

I do prefer moving all tests into the tests directory. The logic to get 
test_modules in runtests.py would be simplified quite a bit from it.


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Re: discontinue shipping tests with contrib apps?

[Markus Holtermann]

I'm +1 on moving the contrib tests to tests/_tests/ .

The respective ticket on Trac is https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/24293

/Markus

On Monday, February 9, 2015 at 4:09:47 PM UTC+1, Tim Graham wrote:
>
> I wonder if there is any need to continue to ship tests as part of contrib 
> apps? Currently the contributing docs say, "Tests for contrib apps go in 
> their respective directories under django/contrib, in a tests.py file. 
> You can split the tests over multiple modules by using a tests directory 
> in the normal Python way." but we are currently inconsistent (see below). 
> Shipping the tests in contrib means that end users may try to run them with 
> their own projects and this often leads to failures if their project's 
> settings do not match the settings that runtests.py expects. (e.g. #24299 
> asks for us to skip contrib tests that require an 'other' database 
> connection if a project doesn't have that). 
>
> apps with tests in tests/
> admin
> admin_docs
> postgres
> staticfiles
> syndication
>
> apps with tests in contrib/
> auth
> flatpages
> gis
> humanize
> messages
> redirects
> sessions
> sitemaps
> sites
>
> apps with tests in both locations
> contenttypes
>

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