Re: [DMM] Fwd: Re: [5gangip] To initiate user-plane study work in 3GPP

2017-11-14 Thread Behcet Sarikaya 
Sri,
As I wrote to Marco Thursday afternoon III clashes with 5G IP meeting.
Please do not use that slot :)

Regards,
Behcet

On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 10:56 AM, Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) <
sgund...@cisco.com> wrote:

> Thats a great idea. Lets find a slot to discuss with Charlie and
> understand the comments.
>
> Any one interested in attending, send me a unicast note.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 15, 2017, at 10:52 AM, Marco Liebsch 
> wrote:
>
> Can we quickly set up an ad-hoc site meeting here at IETF100?
>
> E.g. Thursday Afternoon III or later would be possible for me.
>
> Would be an opportunity to follow-up f2f and further elaborate on that.
>
>
>
> marco
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* dmm [mailto:dmm-boun...@ietf.org ] *On
> Behalf Of *Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
> *Sent:* Mittwoch, 15. November 2017 03:42
> *To:* vojislav vucetic
> *Cc:* Charlie Perkins; dmm@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [DMM] Fwd: Re: [5gangip] To initiate user-plane study work
> in 3GPP
>
>
>
> Like I said, concern is valid. The deliverable about  that study. If it
> turns out there is no significant optimizations that operators can convince
> operators, then we will drop the work.
>
>
>
>
>
> Sri
>
>
>
> *From: *vojislav vucetic 
> *Date: *Tuesday, November 14, 2017 at 6:35 PM
> *To: *Sri Gundavelli 
> *Cc: *Charlie Perkins , "dmm@ietf.org" <
> dmm@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [DMM] Fwd: Re: [5gangip] To initiate user-plane study work
> in 3GPP
>
>
>
> He put you on the spot
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Nov 14, 2017, at 7:13 PM, Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) 
> wrote:
>
> Hi Charlie,
>
>
>
> Fair point! As part of these efforts, we need to understand and quantify
> those optimizations. For not all work items, we need blessing from anyone
> before we initiate any new work, we do what the community believes is the
> right thing here. This work is less about building a solution, and more
> about investigation.   This is one of those items where can bring possibly
> great optimizations to the mobile data plane. We lost the signaling war
> (after CDMA2000 ended) for various reasons, less technical and more about
> legacy and other reasons, but that does not mean we will fail every time.
>
>
>
>
>
> Sri
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *dmm  on behalf of Charlie Perkins <
> charles.perk...@earthlink.net>
> *Date: *Tuesday, November 14, 2017 at 4:43 PM
> *To: *"dmm@ietf.org" 
> *Subject: *[DMM] Fwd: Re: [5gangip] To initiate user-plane study work in
> 3GPP
>
>
>
> Hello folks,
>
> I stumbled across this terrific diagram from email that was sent by
> Satoru-san yesterday.  I think it's an indication that current operators
> are not really asking for a simplified data plane.  Or, at least, that we
> really need to understand under what conditions they would accept an
> IETF-designed simplified data plane before embarking on a solution for
> their needs.
>
> Regards,
> Charlie P.
>
> PS. I hope it is O.K. to forward this email...
>
> ==
>
>
> Alex,
>
>
>
> 
>
> Please take a look at the attached picture which one of the realities
> happened in some operator.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> --satoru
>
> 
>
>
>
> 
>
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Re: [DMM] [5gangip] To initiate user-plane study work in 3GPP

2017-11-14 Thread Satoru Matsushima 
Ouch, s/Hell/Hello/; Sorry for that rude typo...

> 2017/11/15 10:54、Satoru Matsushima のメール:
> 

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Re: [DMM] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on draft-ietf-dmm-4283mnids-05: (with DISCUSS)

2017-11-14 Thread Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) 
We had a offline discussion with the Authors, AD, Chairs and Alissa on
this DISCUSS.  We found a way-forward and new version from the Authors
will resolve this DISCUSS.

With this we can close this work.

Sri





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Re: [DMM] Fwd: Re: [5gangip] To initiate user-plane study work in 3GPP

2017-11-14 Thread Satoru Matsushima 
Hell Charlie,

First, of course it’s ok to forward and thank you for sharing it for DMM list.

Yes, I think that many operators have met various requirements for networks 
which are supporting mobile user-plane nowadays.

My understanding is that mobility management itself is a bit complicated system 
so that it is important that keep it simple as much as possible in terms of 
mobility management. So other features should be isolated or modulated as an 
independent pluggable feature into the system. I can see that concept in 
current cellular mobile systems and also in the Rel-15 control-plane SBA which 
indicates that concept more explicitly IMO.

But when we see the user-plane, modulated concept that features in addition to 
mobility management have decoupled horizontally to deploy in where like Gi-LAN, 
and vertically decoupled in underlying layers, like VPWS/VPLS on top of 
pseudo-wires and MPLS TE(TP)-LSPs. You can see them in the E-Line/E-LAN spec in 
MEF to provide backhaul connectivity services for MNOs. So, the outcome in the 
user-plane has been well complicated as you find in the picture.

I’ve learned that even the control-plane protocols and functions are modulated 
to keep mobility management simple, almost those actual services are 
implemented in the data-plane network(s). Otherwise, those are useless. IMO to 
simplify whole data-plane while mobility management still be simple (ironic?), 
mobile user-plane need to be capable to integrate rest of data-plane roles into 
it.

# I use the term ‘data-plane’ here in more generic while ‘user-plane’ means 
mobility tunnel specifically. 

Actually there's rest of the story of that picture. If we have plenty ID space 
in one single data-plane layer to represent all required feature including 
mobility, there’s no need to employ additional layers and horizontally 
decoupling. This is my background thought for the SRv6 mobile user-plane I-D. 
SRv6 is able to represent network functions as an 128bits ID or a set of IDs. 
So it enable us to simplify the data-plane by integrating all required 
functions into one IPv6 layer.

IMO What specific functions are required is not argument here, what integration 
mechanism we really need for our solution would be a trigger we embark. Of 
course I believe that it is SRv6.

Cheers,
--satoru



> 2017/11/15 8:43、Charlie Perkins のメール:
> 
> Hello folks,
> 
> I stumbled across this terrific diagram from email that was sent by 
> Satoru-san yesterday.  I think it's an indication that current operators are 
> not really asking for a simplified data plane.  Or, at least, that we really 
> need to understand under what conditions they would accept an IETF-designed 
> simplified data plane before embarking on a solution for their needs.
> Regards,
> Charlie P.
> PS. I hope it is O.K. to forward this email...
> 
> ==
> 
> Alex,
> 
> 
> Please take a look at the attached picture which one of the realities 
> happened in some operator.
> 
> Cheers,
> --satoru
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> dmm mailing list
> dmm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm

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Re: [DMM] Fwd: Re: [5gangip] To initiate user-plane study work in 3GPP

2017-11-14 Thread Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) 
Thats a great idea. Lets find a slot to discuss with Charlie and understand the 
comments.

Any one interested in attending, send me a unicast note.

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 15, 2017, at 10:52 AM, Marco Liebsch 
> wrote:

Can we quickly set up an ad-hoc site meeting here at IETF100?
E.g. Thursday Afternoon III or later would be possible for me.
Would be an opportunity to follow-up f2f and further elaborate on that.

marco





From: dmm [mailto:dmm-boun...@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
Sent: Mittwoch, 15. November 2017 03:42
To: vojislav vucetic
Cc: Charlie Perkins; dmm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [DMM] Fwd: Re: [5gangip] To initiate user-plane study work in 3GPP

Like I said, concern is valid. The deliverable about  that study. If it turns 
out there is no significant optimizations that operators can convince 
operators, then we will drop the work.


Sri

From: vojislav vucetic >
Date: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 at 6:35 PM
To: Sri Gundavelli >
Cc: Charlie Perkins 
>, 
"dmm@ietf.org" >
Subject: Re: [DMM] Fwd: Re: [5gangip] To initiate user-plane study work in 3GPP

He put you on the spot
Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 14, 2017, at 7:13 PM, Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) 
> wrote:
Hi Charlie,

Fair point! As part of these efforts, we need to understand and quantify those 
optimizations. For not all work items, we need blessing from anyone before we 
initiate any new work, we do what the community believes is the right thing 
here. This work is less about building a solution, and more about 
investigation.   This is one of those items where can bring possibly great 
optimizations to the mobile data plane. We lost the signaling war (after 
CDMA2000 ended) for various reasons, less technical and more about legacy and 
other reasons, but that does not mean we will fail every time.


Sri


From: dmm > on behalf of 
Charlie Perkins 
>
Date: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 at 4:43 PM
To: "dmm@ietf.org" >
Subject: [DMM] Fwd: Re: [5gangip] To initiate user-plane study work in 3GPP


Hello folks,

I stumbled across this terrific diagram from email that was sent by Satoru-san 
yesterday.  I think it's an indication that current operators are not really 
asking for a simplified data plane.  Or, at least, that we really need to 
understand under what conditions they would accept an IETF-designed simplified 
data plane before embarking on a solution for their needs.

Regards,
Charlie P.

PS. I hope it is O.K. to forward this email...

==

Alex,


Please take a look at the attached picture which one of the realities happened 
in some operator.

Cheers,
--satoru



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Re: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-matsushima-spring-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane-03 as DMM WG document

2017-11-14 Thread Behcet Sarikaya 
On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 9:56 AM, Carlos Jesús Bernardos Cano <
c...@it.uc3m.es> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I support adoption.
>
>
+1

Behcet

> Thanks,
>
> Carlos
>
> On Wed, 2017-11-15 at 00:02 +, Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) wrote:
> > Folks:
> >
> > The following message commences a two week call for opinions on the
> > adoption of draft-matsushima-spring-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane-03 as a
> > DMM Working document.
> >
> > ---
> > The DMM working group is considering adopting the draft, "draft-
> > matsushima-spring-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane-03” as a working group
> > document. The chairs have polled the room for opinions during
> > IETF100, and it was determined that there is good support for taking
> > up this work. The chairs would like to confirm the same in the
> > mailing list.  Please provide your feedback.
> >
> >
> > Document Link:
> > https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-matsushima-spring-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplan
> > e-03.txt
> >
> > Slides:
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/100/materials/slides-100-dmm-srv
> > 6-for-mobile-user-plane/
> >
> > Background:
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/100/materials/slides-100-dmm-mob
> > ile-data-plane-evolution-motivation-goals/
> > ---
> >
> > Regards
> > Dapping & Sri
> >
> > ___
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> > dmm@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
>
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Re: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-matsushima-spring-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane-03 as DMM WG document

2017-11-14 Thread Carlos Jesús Bernardos Cano 
Hi,

I support adoption.

Thanks,

Carlos

On Wed, 2017-11-15 at 00:02 +, Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) wrote:
> Folks:
> 
> The following message commences a two week call for opinions on the
> adoption of draft-matsushima-spring-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane-03 as a
> DMM Working document. 
> 
> ---
> The DMM working group is considering adopting the draft, "draft-
> matsushima-spring-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane-03” as a working group
> document. The chairs have polled the room for opinions during
> IETF100, and it was determined that there is good support for taking
> up this work. The chairs would like to confirm the same in the
> mailing list.  Please provide your feedback.
>   
> 
> Document Link:
> https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-matsushima-spring-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplan
> e-03.txt
> 
> Slides:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/100/materials/slides-100-dmm-srv
> 6-for-mobile-user-plane/
> 
> Background:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/100/materials/slides-100-dmm-mob
> ile-data-plane-evolution-motivation-goals/
> ---
> 
> Regards
> Dapping & Sri
> 
> ___
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Re: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-matsushima-spring-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane-03 as DMM WG document

2017-11-14 Thread Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) 
Hi Charlie,

This work has dependency on other other WG documents and specially on Spring WG 
as you pointed out, and also 6man WG as Suresh pointed out. The normative 
references listed in this document clearly show that dependency and we have a 
proper process to ensure the work is aligned with those base documents.  
Furthermore, the chairs+AD will also ensure the work is reviewed by those 
respective working groups before we move the document for publications.

Regards
Sri

From: Charlie Perkins 
>
Date: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 at 4:29 PM
To: Sri Gundavelli >, 
"dmm@ietf.org" >
Subject: Re: [DMM] Call for adoption of 
draft-matsushima-spring-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane-03 as DMM WG document


Hello Sri,

Could you summarize Suresh's comments regarding the acceptance of segment 
routing within [6man] WG?  I think it is relevant to this discussion.

Regards,
Charlie P.

On 11/14/2017 4:02 PM, Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) wrote:
Folks:

The following message commences a two week call for opinions on the adoption of 
draft-matsushima-spring-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane-03 as a DMM Working document.

---
The DMM working group is considering adopting the draft, 
"draft-matsushima-spring-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane-03² as a working group 
document. The chairs have polled the room for opinions during IETF100, and it 
was determined that there is good support for taking up this work. The chairs 
would like to confirm the same in the mailing list.  Please provide your 
feedback.


Document Link:
https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-matsushima-spring-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane-03.txt

Slides:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/100/materials/slides-100-dmm-srv6-for-mobile-user-plane/

Background:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/100/materials/slides-100-dmm-mobile-data-plane-evolution-motivation-goals/
---

Regards
Dapping & Sri




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Re: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-matsushima-spring-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane-03 as DMM WG document

2017-11-14 Thread Charlie Perkins 

Hello Sri,

Could you summarize Suresh's comments regarding the acceptance of 
segment routing within [6man] WG?  I think it is relevant to this 
discussion.


Regards,
Charlie P.


On 11/14/2017 4:02 PM, Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) wrote:

Folks:

The following message commences a two week call for opinions on the 
adoption of draft-matsushima-spring-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane-03 as a DMM 
Working document.


---
The DMM working group is considering adopting the draft, 
"draft-matsushima-spring-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane-03” as a working group 
document. The chairs have polled the room for opinions during IETF100, 
and it was determined that there is good support for taking up this 
work. The chairs would like to confirm the same in the mailing list. 
 Please provide your feedback.


Document Link:
https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-matsushima-spring-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane-03.txt

Slides:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/100/materials/slides-100-dmm-srv6-for-mobile-user-plane/

Background:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/100/materials/slides-100-dmm-mobile-data-plane-evolution-motivation-goals/
---

Regards
Dapping & Sri



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Re: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-matsushima-spring-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane-03 as DMM WG document

2017-11-14 Thread Moses, Danny 
I support the adoption of this draft.

BR,
Danny

From: dmm [mailto:dmm-boun...@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 02:21
To: dmm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [DMM] Call for adoption of 
draft-matsushima-spring-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane-03 as DMM WG document

Please also note that the document is just a starting point and requires 
significant amount of community efforts  and participation before it can become 
a standard. The document does not address most of the issues, but the proposal 
is promising enough and so would like to take it up right away. Please comment.

Dapping & Sri



From: dmm > on behalf of Sri 
Gundavelli >
Date: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 at 4:02 PM
To: "dmm@ietf.org" >
Subject: [DMM] Call for adoption of 
draft-matsushima-spring-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane-03 as DMM WG document

Folks:

The following message commences a two week call for opinions on the adoption of 
draft-matsushima-spring-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane-03 as a DMM Working document.

---
The DMM working group is considering adopting the draft, 
"draft-matsushima-spring-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane-03" as a working group 
document. The chairs have polled the room for opinions during IETF100, and it 
was determined that there is good support for taking up this work. The chairs 
would like to confirm the same in the mailing list.  Please provide your 
feedback.


Document Link:
https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-matsushima-spring-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane-03.txt

Slides:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/100/materials/slides-100-dmm-srv6-for-mobile-user-plane/

Background:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/100/materials/slides-100-dmm-mobile-data-plane-evolution-motivation-goals/
---

Regards
Dapping & Sri

-
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Re: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-matsushima-spring-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane-03 as DMM WG document

2017-11-14 Thread Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) 
Please also note that the document is just a starting point and requires 
significant amount of community efforts  and participation before it can become 
a standard. The document does not address most of the issues, but the proposal 
is promising enough and so would like to take it up right away. Please comment.

Dapping & Sri



From: dmm > on behalf of Sri 
Gundavelli >
Date: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 at 4:02 PM
To: "dmm@ietf.org" >
Subject: [DMM] Call for adoption of 
draft-matsushima-spring-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane-03 as DMM WG document

Folks:

The following message commences a two week call for opinions on the adoption of 
draft-matsushima-spring-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane-03 as a DMM Working document.

---
The DMM working group is considering adopting the draft, 
"draft-matsushima-spring-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane-03" as a working group 
document. The chairs have polled the room for opinions during IETF100, and it 
was determined that there is good support for taking up this work. The chairs 
would like to confirm the same in the mailing list.  Please provide your 
feedback.


Document Link:
https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-matsushima-spring-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane-03.txt

Slides:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/100/materials/slides-100-dmm-srv6-for-mobile-user-plane/

Background:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/100/materials/slides-100-dmm-mobile-data-plane-evolution-motivation-goals/
---

Regards
Dapping & Sri

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[DMM] Call for adoption of draft-matsushima-spring-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane-03 as DMM WG document

2017-11-14 Thread Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) 
Folks:

The following message commences a two week call for opinions on the adoption of 
draft-matsushima-spring-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane-03 as a DMM Working document.

---
The DMM working group is considering adopting the draft, 
"draft-matsushima-spring-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane-03" as a working group 
document. The chairs have polled the room for opinions during IETF100, and it 
was determined that there is good support for taking up this work. The chairs 
would like to confirm the same in the mailing list.  Please provide your 
feedback.


Document Link:
https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-matsushima-spring-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane-03.txt

Slides:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/100/materials/slides-100-dmm-srv6-for-mobile-user-plane/

Background:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/100/materials/slides-100-dmm-mobile-data-plane-evolution-motivation-goals/
---

Regards
Dapping & Sri

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[DMM] Meeting Minutes from DMM Meeting@IETF100

2017-11-14 Thread Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) 
Thanks to Danny Moses for capturing the meeting minutes.

Please review and suggest any edits.

https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/100/materials/minutes-100-dmm/

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