Re: [DNG] Web md RAID monitoring [was: Re: Fake RAID]

[Michael Neuffer via Dng]

On 3/10/22 08:41, Didier Kryn wrote:
     Not packaged. Debian packaging is something I was never able to 
achieve and I prefer devoting my time to more fruitfull trasks, given my 
skills. I can send you diskweb.tgz, the size of which is 16K. It is 
trivial to build. It monitors both md RAIDs and the level of occupation 
of the filesystems. RAID data is read from devices' representation in 
/sys/devices/virtual/block, and the display is made attractive by the 
use of colors and svg graphics. I wrote this more than a dozen years ago 
and never touched it since that time. It's running on our home Desktop.


     Note that the location /sys/devices/virtual/block is not granted to 
stay the same place in the future, but this location is easy to change 
in the source in case kernel people change their mind.


     If more people are interested I might put it on Devuan git.



Please do so.

Thanks!

Cheers
  Mike
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Re: [DNG] questions further into networking

[Michael Neuffer via Dng]

On 1/30/22 20:05, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote:

Greetings

(Growing out of the 'Configuring ethernet port of ipv6' thread.)

I have been considering setting up a 'Pihole' to enhance my network here.

Is a Pihole a useful addition into a ipv6 network or ?



I've been using it for quite a while. It blocks about 30-45% of my daily 
DNS requests IPv4 & IPv6


It is quite an effective DNS based pre-filter

And you get warnings like this
2022-01-28 00:00:48	RATE_LIMIT	Client fd00::9b3a:1467:d7db:58c9 has been 
rate-limited (current config allows up to 1000 queries in 60 seconds)


which might help you in case of problems. (In this case this was my 
laptop starting an odd job)


Cheers
  Mike



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Re: [DNG] Bug in synaptic package manager?

[Michael Neuffer via Dng]

On 1/25/22 10:27, Didier Kryn wrote:

Le 25/01/2022 à 09:49, Olaf Meeuwissen via Dng a écrit :

Hi Tito,

tito via Dng  writes:

[...]

BTW, I don't use synaptic myself.  Too much bloat.  The command-line
suits my needs just fine.


     I'd have loved using aptitude but could never understand how to do 
the simplest thing with it, although I watched several experts using it 
and was impressed. As a menu-driven package manager, I very often use 
Synaptic, leaving apt-get for quick simple things or when dist-upgrading.


     I don't use synaptic with pkexec to get the permission. I think I 
haven't pkexec installed. I have a button on my pannel programmed with 
sh -c "SUDO_ASKPASS=/usr/bin/ssh-askpass sudo -A synaptic".


     For this to work, I must have ssh-askpass installed, /etc/sudoers 
configured to allow me to invoque synaptic, plus the following line in 
/etc/sudoers:


Defaults env_keep = "EDITOR LOGNAME XAUTHORITY DISPLAY"

     Only XAUTHORITY and DISPLAY  are needed in this case, the other 
variables serve other purposes.


Why don't you use the trusty old dselect?

Cheers
  Mike
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Re: [DNG] Only a few packages now still on hold

[Michael Neuffer]

On 8/2/21 11:02 AM, Mark Hindley wrote:

Hendrik,

As suggested by Rod, I also prefer plain apt to aptitude. In general it is a
very good package manager and is pretty successful at resolving dependencies and
not breaking your system.


Or try good old dselect

Cheers

  Mike


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Re: [DNG] USB mount problem

[Michael Neuffer]

On 6/27/21 11:28 AM, Arnt Karlsen wrote:

It is always been;

  sudo apt-get update
  sudo apt-get upgrade
  sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
and occasionally one of the upgrades will suggest
  sudo apr autoremove

..playing around with all the "apt family members" helps you find
solutions whenever any of the members fails to solve a dependency
etc puzzle.

..pick a favorite goto member and use that as your "daily driver"
to keep your apt depencency puzzle database manageable, and keep
yourself proficient on the other members so you can use those to
find solutions whenever your goto member fails to solve a puzzle.



And don't forget the trusty old dselect

To this day it is my main tool.

One of the most important behavioral differences between the

dselect and apt  descendants is that the dselect dependency solver will 
remove packages by default, while apt solvers do not.



Cheers

  Mike

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[DNG] No Sound in XFCE Beowulf - Pulsaudio

[Michael K.]

*establishing connetion to pulsaudio, please wait *

(a fresh installed Beowulf wth XFCE has no Sound. )

There was a hint once before on the list to edit "something" in a
Pulsaudio file. But I can't find this info anymore.

What do I have to do to get back in contact with the sound mixer?

Thanks in advance

Michael
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[DNG] XFCE in Beowulf confuses left and right

[Michael K.]

Heyho,

I have setup a Desktop with Beowulf and XFCE. The install was done with
only one Monitor (Acer 24" HDMI)

I put on a other Monitor (Acer 20" VGA) and yes i get "Figure 3.
Configure new displays dialog." (*) In this display dialog i see the
first "confuses of left and right" The 20" stands *left* from 24" (for
medical reasons i need it) I drag and drop the Icons to te right places,
how my monitors are positioned. I set 24" as default. And XFCE use the
20" as default?! 24" shows only the default XFCE Background. (***)

"if i want to reach the monitor left with the mouse i have to move the
mouse to the right."

Although, the 24" is the *default* Monitor XFCE give me the Menu and
other Desktop Items on the small one 20" ?? E.g. open Thunar 

I *disable* the Small on 20", and the Monitor Icon for the 20" goes
automatically to the right side. See screenshot (**)

I make this settings as a "normal user" non root privileges. (***)

what can I do to make this program do what I want?

Thank you in advance and have a nice weekend

Michael

(*) https://docs.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-settings/4.12/display
(**) https://paste.pics/d4c5304aad0b59d810705756c06c5774
(***) https://paste.pics/22edd79281ed949a7d48419688d5c927


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Re: [DNG] Clarification please

[Michael Neuffer]

On 10/29/20 5:53 PM, g4sra via Dng wrote:

On 29/10/2020 13:44, Michael Neuffer wrote:

On 10/29/20 2:27 PM, d...@d404.nl wrote:

--snip--

To ease the maintenance of those servers i intend to migrate them to
docker containers. I wonder people on this list have experience on this
subject?



You might want to take a look at this project:

https://github.com/mailserver2/mailserver


Please correct me if I am mistaken, I thought 'unbound' was tied to 'systemd 
creep' nowadays and have been avoiding it for that reason alone.
I want to avoid creating a dependency on something I don't already have only to 
need to purge it next year ...


If you can provide them with a better option, PLEASE go ahead and help 
out.
My impression of the people working on this was that they are not 
exactly fans of systemd either.


Cheers
  Mike
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Re: [DNG] Self-hosted SMTP (was: TB and Enigmail)

[Michael Neuffer]

On 10/29/20 2:27 PM, d...@d404.nl wrote:

I do administer 3 different mailservers from which 1 does have the full
package from spf, dkim and dmarc. In my experience dmarc does not add
much of value but spf does. Dkim is much liked by isp's with strict spam
policies. But those are still reachable without after some waiting time
as long as you are not on a spam blocklist. A reverse dns record does
help too.

To ease the maintenance of those servers i intend to migrate them to
docker containers. I wonder people on this list have experience on this
subject?



You might want to take a look at this project:

https://github.com/mailserver2/mailserver

It is a project that might provide what you want to do.

It is in the hands of a group of volunteers that took over when the 
original maintainer called it quits.


The original project was: https://github.com/hardware/mailserver

Cheers
  Mike
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Re: [DNG] Complete system HDD encryption w/o LLVM.

[Michael Neuffer]

On 10/1/20 4:42 AM, Steve Litt wrote:

On Tue, 29 Sep 2020 20:58:42 +0700
Андрей via Dng  wrote: 

I've seen on the DeVuan web wite an article on complete system HDD
encryption using LLVM. I have tried that one and found that it is
impossible to change partiotion sizes once it was autopartiotioned,
using LLVM full system HDD encryption.


If your /home partition is encrypted, and any other "data" partitions
are encrypted, and perhaps your swap partition is encrypted (is that
possible?) then I think it's pretty easy. Why would one need /usr and
/etc and /var encrypted?



/etc/ to prevent adversaries with physical access from reading your 
configuration


/usr/ to prevent adversaries with physical access from replacing binaries

/var/ mixture of the above.



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[DNG] Shutdown/halt versus WiFi and NFS

[Michael S. Keller via Dng]

My desktop is running Chimaera, and I saw this with Beowulf, but didn't 
spend much time on it then.


My network connection is via WiFi, and I have permanent NFS mounts in 
place. I run SysV init.


During halt or shutdown via init scripts, NetworkManager is terminated 
before the NFS unmount, which brings down the active NIC, and usually 
the unmount hangs forever, so I have to do a hard reset or power-off.


After futzing with it for a while, trying to find a more elegant 
solution, I ended up just renaming K01network-manager and K02sendsigs in 
rc0.d and rc6.d. Now shutdown and reboot run reliably.


Before that, I tried renaming K01network-manager to K06network-manager, 
to place it after the NFS unmount, but it ran earlier anyway.


I also tried shielding NetworkManager from sendsigs, and I think it 
would have worked if I could make K0.network-manager run later, but that 
was about the point I gave up and took a virtual hammer to the issue.


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[DNG] XFCE Lang Settings in Beowulf

[Michael K.]

Heyho,


What do I have to install in Dev1 (BEOWULF) to make this setting in XFCE?

https://forum.manjaro.org/uploads/default/original/3X/8/1/8119468869b9c01a1d22b1bf6cdbdc4d35671787.png


Thanks in advance
Michael



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Re: [DNG] I do not work menu options, how to solve this problem?

[Michael K.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

OK, just for the record: the packet "sudo" is installed? ;-)

Hello Ismael or Bom Dia!

Pls, test this:

log off from the "broken" desktop
use a new Terminal an login als root or sudo [Ctrl]+[Alt]+[F2 / F3]
make a new "test" user (e.g.: ismael0) go back to X [Ctrl]+[Alt]+[F7]
and login as the test user...

Hint: i have thus issue month ago whit a fedora "twenty something"
this have "work for me" ...

Good Luck!

Greetz from Lisboa
Michael



Am 22.05.19 um 14:06 schrieb Ismael L. Donis Garcia:
> - Original Message - From: "terryc"  To:
>  Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2019 10:35 PM Subject:
> Re: [DNG] I do not work menu options, how to solve this problem?
> 
> 
>> On Tue, 21 May 2019 14:42:06 -0400 "Ismael L. Donis Garcia"
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> system - administration - users and groups - advanced settings 
>>> it does not work. Does not do anything when pressing the
>>> button
>> 
>> What are you trying to do? Which VM/desktop are you running. 
>> Under xfce4 there is no system -> admin, so obviously what you
>> get depends on your desktop and basically what programs you have
>> install.
> 
> Excuse me, I forgot to mention that I use both mate desktop
> 
>>> 
>>> Neither does it ask me for the root password when I try to run 
>>> synaptic from the menu.
>> 
>> does it run or not run? You might have to pop a terminal, su,
>> then run the program.
>> 
>>> 
>>> I have this problem in 2 pc that I just installed an ascii and 
>>> another beowulf updated from ascii
>>> 
>>> This pc that I come from debian 8 with her I do not have that
>>> problem.
>>> 
>>> Best Regards -- Ismael Devuan User:
>>> http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=devuan
>> 
> 
> Best Regards -- Ismael Devuan User:
> http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=devuan
> 
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[DNG] Update on the Green Hat Hackers attack

[Michael Stroucken via Dng]

I like Devuan. I am proud to financially contribute to a project so
desperately needed in our time. But I would like to join others in
registering that this "joke" was in poor taste.

I don't know if it was one individual with Devuan who found it so
hilarious and single-handedly "defaced" the web site, and then added to
the uncertainty with the supposed investigation. I really hope it wasn't
a group effort. In any case, you may benefit from reconsidering the
policy on who gets to put what on the web page.

Leave the stupid jokes for the school playground. Do consider how you
would like it if the pilot of your next flight made an announcement that
they mixed up the kerosine with the salad oil, and they're investigating
the extent of the problem.

Greetings,
Michael.
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Re: [DNG] new freedesktop "standard": /etc/machine-id

[Michael Neuffer]

On 08.03.19 14:23, KatolaZ wrote:
> this is currently managed by eudev in devuan and, IIRC, it is simply
> regenerated as a random ID at each boot. I guess it's still there
> because it is used by several things, including
> session-management-related stuff. We had a discussion on IRC with Mark
> (LeePen) about that several weeks ago, and IIRC we concluded that
> keeping it around but re-generating it at boot was the way to avoid
> breakage.
>
> Any thoughts on the matter are appreciated, but concrete insight on
> the ins and outs are much more useful I guess (read: please let's
> avoid a useless uninformed flame about that :P).

I would assume that the machine-id is used for:
1. Software Licencing
2. Identifying machines in a pool/swarm/cluster/cloud of machines where
static IP adresses are not necessarily a given

similar to
HP/HP-UX: /bin/uname -i
IBM/AIX: /bin/uname -m
SGI/IRIX: /sbin/sysinfo -s
Sun/Solaris: /usr/ucb/hostid

machine-id should theoretical be a serial number or UUID

Cheers
  Mike
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Re: [DNG] Fwd: ifstat.eth0 on Boot

[Michael K.]

hello all,
Bonjour Didier


Am 24.02.19 um 08:52 schrieb Didier Kryn:

>login to investigate what's happening.
> 
>         Didier

OK, Thanks, i can (re)boot my machine. more infos comming soon

Ate breve!
Michael





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[DNG] Fwd: ifstat.eth0 on Boot

[Michael K.]

Happy ?! New Year .

with the "same ol' bug sh**"??? ;-)

After the last Kernel Update** on Dev1 i do a reboot.

(** Update to:  4.9.0-8-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.144-3.1 (2019-02-19)
x86_64 GNU/Linux)

Now i get the MSG:
Configuring Network Interfaces ifup: Waiting for Lock on
/run/network/ifstat.eth0


Last year (see TOFU bellow) my Machine (laptop) starts after a long time
i wait. The Machine now don't start, it is a Virtual Machine. Yes i can
connect the Hypervisor.

What must (or can) i do to bring up my Dev1 ??

Thanks in Advanced
Michael



== TOFU == TOFU == TOFU == TOFU == TOFU == TOFU == TOFU == TOFU == TOFU

 Weitergeleitete Nachricht 
Betreff: ifstat.eth0 on Boot
Datum: Wed, 5 Dec 2018 18:14:39 +0100
Von: Michael K. 
An: dng@lists.dyne.org

¡Ola!

After a Dev1 Setup on a Laptop (whit eth0), i have to wait a long time
for the eth0 on "cold boot".

I "cold boot" my Laptop
I look to the "Boot Messages"
I see the following Msg:

Configuring Network Interfaces ifup: Waiting for Lock on
/run/network/ifstat.eth0

After 2 or 3 minutes to wait, the Laptop boot up,

In the folder /run/network/ i have - after the "long to wait boot":

ifstat  (content: eth0=eth0 and lo=lo
ifstat.eth0 (content: eth0 )
ifstat.lo   (content: lo )
ifstat.lock (content: empty )

The Packet: ifstat (1.1-8.1) current *not* installed!

What must i do to speed up my Dev1 Boot ?!

Thanks
Michael

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Re: [DNG] Fwd: Re: What should an Install Guide accomplish?

[Michael]

On Tuesday 01 January 2019 08:11:44 pm goli...@dyne.org wrote:
> Sorry.  Forgot to send to the list.
>
>  Original Message 
> Subject: Re: [DNG] What should an Install Guide accomplish?
> Date: 2019-01-01 18:50
>  From: goli...@dyne.org
> To: Michael 
>
> On 2019-01-01 17:34, Michael wrote:
> > Hi golinux and everyone else,
> >
> > Okay, I’m breaking this topic off from the ‘Added desktop-live to the
> > install
> > guides’ as it seems we have a much higher, philosophical level decision
> > to
> > make before we can continue with editing the Devuan Install Guide.
> > Which is:
> >
> > == What should an Install Guide accomplish?
>
> Before that, it might be good for you to understand a little better
> where Devuan is coming from.
>
> > # # #
> >
> > My take is that an Install Guide is a complete set of instructions that
> > a
> > person can follow to fully accomplish the task.  There are no
> > ambiguities
> > presented to the user, as it is literally do step a), do step b), do
> > step
> > c) ...
>
> As explained elsewhere.  These documents were originally created for
> inclusion on the ascii isos and have been re-purposed to go on the
> website. They were never intended as a complete set of instructions. Are
> you even aware of dev1fanboy's wiki?
> https://git.devuan.org/dev1fanboy/Upgrade-Install-Devuan
> Or the friends of devaun wiki?
> https://friendsofdevuan.org/doku.php
>
> > Each step should be fully explained and if there is more than one
> > primary
> > method of doing any of the steps, then each method is explained.  In
> > this
> > case my take is that both Nix and Windows instructions should be
> > available.
>
> See below.
>
> > # # Minor points
> >
> > = I am fully against against repeating any information on a website.
> > As doing
> > so almost always leads to discrepancies between the difference sources.
> >  If
> > the Devuan site is using a CMS of some sort, then a single source
> > should be
> > able to be created and block inclusions can be then placed anywhere
> > else on
> > the site as needed. [1]
>
> The site is intricately hand-coded in markdown.  Not my doing; I
> inherited it and have learned to live with it.
>
> > = I do think that anything a user needs to know to make an intelligent
> > decision should be either on the page or directly linked to.  If linked
> > to,
> > then clicking the link should not close or overwrite the Install Guide
> > page.
>
> The best documemntation will be useless if no one reads it.  See below.
> Isn't that what a scrollwheel click is for?
>
> > = For an Install Guide I’m against ‘Minimalism.’  My feeling is that
> > not
> > giving total, and literally an over abundance of information, not only
> > directly inhibits and stops people from doing the Install, but also
> > creates
> > vast negative word of mouth from those who attempt the Install but
> > can’t
> > complete it because they aren’t given enough information to physically
> > be
> > able to follow it.
>
> Even though information is already available on the site and elsewhere,
> quite often there will be questions that could be readily answered with
> a little effort on the user's part.  So it is not a lack of information
> problem but a "you can't fix stupid" problem. Bloating the guide won't
> change that human behavior.
>
> > = If golinux agrees to ‘an over abundance of information approach,’ I
> > have no
> > issue re-writing the whole guide.  (As you may have noticed I’m a bit
> > gabby.)
> > I will need someone with a Windows box to QC those instructions.
>
> I am a minimalist personally as is the target audience of this distro.
> We are not seeking to court desktop users and overtake the desktop
> market.  In fact, we considered launching this distro without ANY
> desktop!! That would have left desktop development to derivatives of
> which we have many. So I think you're not understanding who we are,
> where we are coming from and where we want to go.
>
> Feel free to open a project in our gitlab for us to review.
>
> > # # #
> >
> > Okay, that’s my fairly opinionated opinion.  I think ultimately this is
> > golinux’s decision, but please everyone else jump in with yea’s, nay’s,
> > and
> > what you think the answer to the question is ;)  Also, please don’t
> > feel shy
> > about bringing up what you think the ramifications might be for the
> > different
> > options/opinions/methods.  I bring this last point up, as I have 

[DNG] What should an Install Guide accomplish?

[Michael]

Hi golinux and everyone else,

Okay, I’m breaking this topic off from the ‘Added desktop-live to the install 
guides’ as it seems we have a much higher, philosophical level decision to 
make before we can continue with editing the Devuan Install Guide.  Which is:

== What should an Install Guide accomplish?


# # #

My take is that an Install Guide is a complete set of instructions that a 
person can follow to fully accomplish the task.  There are no ambiguities 
presented to the user, as it is literally do step a), do step b), do step 
c) ...

Each step should be fully explained and if there is more than one primary 
method of doing any of the steps, then each method is explained.  In this 
case my take is that both Nix and Windows instructions should be available.

# # Minor points

= I am fully against against repeating any information on a website.  As doing 
so almost always leads to discrepancies between the difference sources.  If 
the Devuan site is using a CMS of some sort, then a single source should be 
able to be created and block inclusions can be then placed anywhere else on 
the site as needed. [1]

= I do think that anything a user needs to know to make an intelligent 
decision should be either on the page or directly linked to.  If linked to, 
then clicking the link should not close or overwrite the Install Guide page.

= For an Install Guide I’m against ‘Minimalism.’  My feeling is that not 
giving total, and literally an over abundance of information, not only 
directly inhibits and stops people from doing the Install, but also creates 
vast negative word of mouth from those who attempt the Install but can’t 
complete it because they aren’t given enough information to physically be 
able to follow it.

= If golinux agrees to ‘an over abundance of information approach,’ I have no 
issue re-writing the whole guide.  (As you may have noticed I’m a bit gabby.)  
I will need someone with a Windows box to QC those instructions.

# # #

Okay, that’s my fairly opinionated opinion.  I think ultimately this is 
golinux’s decision, but please everyone else jump in with yea’s, nay’s, and 
what you think the answer to the question is ;)  Also, please don’t feel shy 
about bringing up what you think the ramifications might be for the different 
options/opinions/methods.  I bring this last point up, as I have a gut feel 
that if we come to agreement on the ramifications, then we’ll have 
our ‘decision’ per say made for us.

Best Regards All and Happy New Year!,
Michael

PS:  golinux, my full apologies if I’ve stepped on your toes :( and/or 
exceeded what you’re willing to take under discussion.

[1] I host and manage Drupal (CMS) websites, this generally takes 10 minutes 
to setup.  I can discuss this offline with whoever as desired.

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Re: [DNG] Added desktop-live to the install guides

[Michael]

On Tuesday 01 January 2019 03:46:52 am goli...@dyne.org wrote:
> tweaking the install guides and adding one for the desktop-live gui
> install. You can start here:
>
> https://beta.devuan.org/os/documentation/install-guides/start-here.html


Hi golinux,

These thoughts are from the angle of helping someone who’s never done an 
install of any OS before.  My guess is most people haven’t, as when buying a 
new computer the OS is almost always already installed now days.

I’ve added stubs where I can, but do edit for better user clarity!

# # #


# # Sections to Add:

= Which Release version is right for me?

Explain when/why they should choose ASCII or Jessie.

= {Explanation of the .iso naming scheme}

devuan_ascii_2.0.0_amd64_netinst.iso 
^^^ Who we are!
   ^^^ The Release name
   ^^^ The architecture
 ^^^ The Installation image
   
Needs fixed width to line up properly...

= {Pathing walk through of how to find the right .iso}


# # Section:  Supported architectures

Define what both of these mean.

amd64:  64-bit CPUs, used for both Intel and AMD consumer level CPUs.
I386:  32-bit CPUs, ???


# # Section:  Installation images

Rename to “What Installation image should I chose?”

Add Subsection:  One install with access to the Internet?

Use the `*_netinst.iso` which will install a base system then download the 
remaining packages during the installation process. 

Add Subsection:  Multiple installs or no access to the Internet during 
install?

Choose the single `*_dvd-1.iso`. The image contains several desktop choices 
and additional software options. ...


# # Section:  Check the integrity of images

Add how to for Windows.  You can probably swipe Fedora’s?  But someone would 
need to check both copyright concerns and that the instructions work.

https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/18/html/Burning_ISO_images_to_disc/sect-Burning_ISO_images_to_disc-Validating_the_Files-Validating_at_the_Windows_Command_Prompt.html


# # Check the integrity of images Vs. Verify the images

This isn’t my field, but???  If they’ve done a sha256sum, is there any value 
in checking a keychain?  Or are these just two alternatives of the same thing 
and these two sections need to be sub-sections of the same section?


# # Section:  Writing an image to a CD/DVD or USB drive

Okay, I hate giving people dd instructions, as one bad typo and they’ve 
irrevocably wiped the wrong drive.  These instructions are much safer and 
also allow the user to add scripts, commands, copies of .bashrc, and any 
other ‘stuff’ that they might want post install to the USB.

Creating a bootable Ubuntu USB flash drive from terminal
https://askubuntu.com/a/376430

There is one additional command needed.  In the next to last step you also 
need to rename isolinux.bin to syslinux.bin.

This section also needs Windows instructions.

# # #

Nice writeup, this will definitely help!

Best,
Michael
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[DNG] Post install disk partitioning/encryption

[Michael]

Hi All,

We have a "tasksel" for software that we can run after install.  Is there 
something similar for the disk partitioning/encryption part of install?

I finally figured out how to do an install with 2 disks (SSD and spin), both 
encrypted and asking for passphrases at boot.  The spin disk promptly died 
during testing.  Since I’ve already figured out how to use the install 
partitioning interface, I’m hoping there’s a way to re-access it after 
install like you can tasksel.

Secondary Q:

Is there a reason the install process isn’t setting up or triggering 
decrypt_keyctl [1] if the passphrases are the same for all disks?  (Or more 
appropriately having a selection box to enable.)

Thanks,
Michael

[1]
https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/392284/using-a-single-passphrase-to-unlock-multiple-encrypted-disks-at-boot
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Re: [DNG] Admins can you fix/set the header overrides?

[Michael]

On Wednesday 26 December 2018 02:06:52 pm Simon Hobson wrote:
> The problem is SPF, DMARC, and friends. These basically provide information
> about where emails may come from - eg gmail may only come from Google's
> servers. This is a problem for any system that forwards email - such as
> mailing lists and mail servers setup to forward email for (say)
> i...@nicetownplumbers.co.uk to ntplumb2458...@someispmail.com.

On Wednesday 26 December 2018 03:05:43 pm Rick Moen wrote:
> _Why_, and why (specifically) _your_ mail?  Actually, it's not just
> you, but rather your sending domain, protonmail.com.  Protonmail creates
> a challenge to any mailing list by publishing an aggressive DMARC
> antiforgery policy in its public DNS:

Okay, I'm not disagreeing with either of you on SPF/DMARC/etc.’s inner 
workings, as I have to wrangle those beasts myself for my clients' DNS to 
work correctly.  Literal headache every time.

I am going to say, that the Trinity Desktop Environment (TDE) Users mailing 
list seems to send from/to ProtonMail without the reply to issue the Devuan 
Users list has.  The list admin, and owner of the project, is Timothy 
Pearson, and his publicly published email is:

"Timothy Pearson" 

He's somewhat hard to get a hold of, but I can certainly provide copies of my 
message headers to the TDE users list privately to the admin(s) of this list.  
The headers are fairly different, not that I know what specifically ‘fixes’ 
this issue, but I’ll guess it would hopefully give a clue as to what/where 
the fix lies.

I was also a member of the LEAF user list for near 20 years, I don’t remember 
them ever having the issue either.  I can dig up some old headers (‘17) off 
that list as well if an admin here thinks it would help.

# # #

Admittedly, just being able to always click reply and it ‘just works’ is a 
triviality on any issue scale, but if there’s anything I can do to help get 
there, I’m in, as it’s momentous on my annoyance scale.

Best All,
Michael
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[DNG] Admins can you fix/set the header overrides?

[Michael]

On Wednesday 26 December 2018 03:24:24 am Antony Stone wrote:
> Argh.  Sending to the list this time.
>
> Please don't set "Reply-to" on list emails.
>
> Antony.

I’m pretty sure the individuals aren’t doing it explicitly.  This list just 
doesn’t seem to create, or override really, the headers quite right.  Some 
messages here I hit reply (like this one) and the proper “To: 
dng@lists.dyne.org” shows up, on others someone’s name is populated in the 
To: box.  Other lists, you hit reply and To: is always populated correctly.

golinux?, other admins?, is there a config option somewhere in the backend 
to ‘fix’ this?

Best,
Michael
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Re: [DNG] try Tor Browser Bundle? [was:] IceCat

[Michael]

On Tuesday 25 December 2018 04:40:09 am Edward Bartolo via Dng wrote:
> So, this is yet another limited browser that many modern web-sites
> find repulsive to connect to. It is clear the problem is not the
> browsers themselves, but economical and political.

[snip basic reality]

I know nothing of IceCat, nor am I trying to dismiss it.  But...  If you’re 
looking for a browser that’s exceptionally good at displaying modern 
web-sites and keeping capitalists ‘out of your business’ try the Tor Browser 
Bundle (TBB), https://www.torproject.org/projects/torbrowser.html .

If you’re still concerned with ads and privacy, but are sticking with one of 
the ‘big 6,’ try the addon AdBlocker Ultimate (AU), 
https://adblockultimate.net/ .

TBB with AU seems to be one of the better combinations to view websites as 
intended while maintaining your privacy.

Best,
Michael
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Re: [DNG] What should be the tasks of the Devuan Installer

[Michael]

On Monday 17 December 2018 09:48:10 pm Steve Litt wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Dec 2018 11:10:20 +0100
>
> KatolaZ  wrote:
> > On Sat, Dec 15, 2018 at 08:19:31PM -0500, Steve Litt wrote:
> > > On Wed, 12 Dec 2018 14:36:45 +
> > >
> > > g4sra via Dng  wrote:
> > > > Media partitioning, formatting
> > > > Configure mountpoints
> > > > Install Bootloader
> > > > Install Kernel, Modules & Firmware
> > > > Install Shell & package management software
> > > > Configure console
> > > > Configure network
> > > > Boot
> > > >
> > > > Discuss...
> > >
> > > Above all else, query the user for his/her preferences, and coach
> > > the user while making such decisions. Such decisions serve as input
> > > to your list,  which seems quite complete to me.
> >
>
> Perhaps reframing it would make a difference. Perhaps renaming the
> second program "Install Software" (install_software), 

[snip]

:Software
Yes, something that separates software into its own screen and also gives much 
better definition as to what the 'Software' being installed is would be very 
helpful.  'Web Server' makes sense to most people, but 'Console tools' means 
nothing to that same group.

Further selection into even 'Web Server' would be helpful, especially as most 
read that as what LAMP stack are you installing for me.  Does the user want 
Apache or nginx?  Does the user want MySQL, MariaDB, MongoDB, or ???  Does 
the user want PHP, Perl, Python, or ???


:Firmware
Firmware currently seems to need some work.  Non-free won't install even 
though the packages are on the install media (DVD) and the computer has a 
hard-wired Ethernet connection.

I’m not even sure if the Devuan installer even tries to install graphics 
drivers.  Depending on whose survey you’re using (Steam in this case) NVIDIA 
has over 50% of the market in ~15 GeForce GTX cards.  Add in the next 2 major 
groups* and it would seem 70-80% of these drivers would be installed ‘out of 
the box.’

* Maybe just one group?  AMD Radon seems about it outside of a few Intel's up 
to the 90% total usage mark.

GPU driver full disclosure:
Since there don’t seem to be any Devuan instructions, following Debian 
instructions I can’t even get the NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060, supposedly the 
most used graphics card, drivers to install.  Being butthurt might be biasing 
my opinion a bit...

Humor aside, having the distribution that installs ~75% of people graphics 
cards ‘out-of-the-box’ would be a pretty major reason for people to install 
Devuan over anything else.

> > > You know what would really be fun? An installer that asks *all* of
> > > the necessary questions right at the front,  so you can walk away
> > > and do something else while it installs itself. I find installers
> > > that keep asking me questions every 10 minutes annoying.
> >
> > You can use preseeding for that. And you are not asked any question at
> > all.
>
> Not the same thing. I want the discoverability of a menu when I define
> all aspects. Perhaps the best of both worlds could be obtained by
> having a Curses or GUI program providing questions to create the
> preseed. Now THAT would be cool!

I’ve always wanted this.  The downside having always been, you come back 4 
hours later and it barfed in the first 10 minutes.  Maybe continually flash 
the screen upon an error or something, since having the old PC speaker 
standby is iffy now.

Best,
Michael
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Re: [DNG] What should be the tasks of the Devuan Installer

[Michael]

[let's see if I can send to the list instead of replying to an individual this 
time...]

On Tuesday 18 December 2018 11:30:47 am g4sra via Dng wrote:
> [snip]
>
> > You are confusing a simple config file that is read once and for all
> > during boot time (the config file on raspberry pis) with the complete
> > installation of a new system. They are not even comparable. There is
> > no thing like "oh I re-run the installer configuration to change the
> > layout of my partitions".
>
> No, building a system under the concept I am trying to describe is a two
> step procedure. You are still merging both steps into one.
>
> Even simpler explanation (so simple it is wrong).
>
> Stage 1) install kernel using program 1 from installation media.
>
> -- reboot --
>
> Stage 2) Install GNOME using program 2 from running built system.

Replace TDE for GNOME and this is exactly my install procedure currently.  
It’s a bit of a pita, because I didn’t know the below, so you have zero 
desktop and are working in a root shell.

On Tuesday 18 December 2018 12:53:11 pm KatolaZ wrote:
> Are you familiar with the Debian/Devuan installer? "tasksel" is the
> installer component that lets you choose which set of packages you
> want to install *after* the base system has been installed. It
> includes selections like "XFCE desktop", "KDE Desktop", "Printer
> server", "SSH server", "web server", "Console productivity", "Standard
> system utilities", etc. You choose what you want, it installs the
> corresponding packages. If you change idea after installation, you
> just run again "tasksel" (from the installed system) and change your
> selections. It's already there.

Documenting that you can run "tasksel" (from the installed system) on the 
initial install screen would be very useful.
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Re: [DNG] How to install NVIDIA driver?

[Michael]

On Monday 17 December 2018 05:49:22 pm you wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> [Minimal install, Devuan ASCII w/ Trinity Desktop Environment (TDE)]
>
> I’m trying to install NVIDIA drivers for a GTX 1060.  I’m basically
> following the Debian instructions [1], modified for Devuan and got to the
> last step, which error-ed out.  The summary of the error is:
>
> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
>  nvidia-driver : PreDepends: nvidia-installer-cleanup but it is not
> installable
>
> I’d also like someone to check if I’ve modified sources.list correctly.
>
> Full command line output and error message below:

After further investigation, the missing package is in Debian 9 (Stretch) 
Contrib:

https://pkgs.org/download/nvidia-installer-cleanup

I tried adding 'contrib' to the end of sources, which worked for 'non-free,' 
but doesn't seem to work for contrib.

So...  What is the corresponding Devuan repository for Debian Contrib?

If there isn't one, what are the issues with installing the .deb 
(nvidia-installer-cleanup_20151021+4_amd64.deb) from the above link?

Thanks,
Michael

PS:  Does anyone see this? Or am I in some sort of moderation?


> [1] https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers
>
>
> root@local [/etc/apt]# lspci -nn | egrep -i "3d|display|vga"
> 2e:00.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: NVIDIA Corporation GP106 [GeForce
> GTX 1060 6GB] [10de:1c03] (rev a1)
>
>
> *Same error whether or not you use backports
> root@local [/etc/apt]# apt-get install -t ascii-backports nvidia-driver
> Reading package lists... Done
> Building dependency tree
> Reading state information... Done
> Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have
> requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable
> distribution that some required packages have not yet been created
> or been moved out of Incoming.
> The following information may help to resolve the situation:
>
> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
>  nvidia-driver : PreDepends: nvidia-installer-cleanup but it is not
> installable
>  PreDepends: nvidia-legacy-check (>= 343) but it is not
> going to be installed
>  Depends: nvidia-driver-libs (= 390.87-4~bpo9+1) but it is
> not going to be installed or
>   nvidia-driver-libs-nonglvnd (= 390.87-4~bpo9+1)
> but it is not going to be installed
>  Depends: nvidia-driver-bin (= 390.87-4~bpo9+1) but it is
> not going to be installed
>  Depends: xserver-xorg-video-nvidia (= 390.87-4~bpo9+1) but
> it is not going to be installed
>  Depends: nvidia-vdpau-driver (= 390.87-4~bpo9+1) but it is
> not going to be installed
>  Depends: nvidia-alternative (= 390.87-4~bpo9+1) but it is
> not going to be installed
>  Depends: nvidia-kernel-dkms (= 390.87-4~bpo9+1) but it is
> not going to be installed or
>   nvidia-kernel-390.87
>  Depends: nvidia-support but it is not installable
>  Recommends: nvidia-settings (>= 390) but it is not
> installable
>  Recommends: nvidia-persistenced but it is not installable
> E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
>
>
> root@local [/etc/apt]# ll /etc/X11/xorg.conf
> ls: cannot access '/etc/X11/xorg.conf': No such file or directory
>
>
>
> root@local [/etc/apt]# cat sources.list
> #
>
> # deb cdrom:[devuan_ascii_2.0.0_amd64_dvd-1]/ ascii main non-free
> # deb cdrom:[devuan_ascii_2.0.0_amd64_dvd-1]/ ascii main non-free
>
> deb http://us.deb.devuan.org/merged ascii main non-free
> deb-src http://us.deb.devuan.org/merged ascii main non-free
>
>
> deb http://us.deb.devuan.org/merged ascii-security main non-free
> deb-src http://us.deb.devuan.org/merged ascii-security main non-free
>
> deb http://us.deb.devuan.org/merged ascii-updates main non-free
> deb-src http://us.deb.devuan.org/merged ascii-updates main non-free
>
> deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged ascii-backports main non-free
> deb-src http://deb.devuan.org/merged ascii-backports main non-free
>
>
> ## Trinity - TDE R14.0.5
> deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-r14.0.0/debian
> stretch main
> deb
> http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-builddeps-r14.0.0/debi
>an stretch main
> deb-src http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-r14.0.0/debian
> stretch main
> deb-src
> http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-builddeps-r14.0.0/debi
>an stretch main

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Re: [DNG] No dependency packages in ASCII repo for nvidia's xorg-video-driver.

[Michael]

On Wednesday 19 December 2018 04:53:05 am KatolaZ wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 04:35:39PM +0700, Андрей via Dng wrote:
> > Приветствую.
> >
> >
> > How to solve problem of installing nvidia xorg-video-driver, when
> > aptitude says that in ASCII repo no one of:
> >
> > nvidia-installer-cleanup
> > nvidia-support
> > glx-alternative-nvidia
> >
> > packages? Thank you for advice.
>
> Please use https://pkginfo.devuan.org:
>
>  
> https://pkginfo.devuan.org/stage/ascii/ascii/nvidia-installer-cleanup_20151
>021+4.html
>
> You need to add "contrib" and "non-free" to your sources.list.

Would someone add that info to the 'Package repositories' section of 
https://devuan.org/os/ ?

Actually, please add ALL the various sources options there.  And a full 
example of everything would sure help those of us that have never used Debian 
before, as we don't know to add what to us is random, unpublished 
information.

Thanks,
Michael
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[DNG] How to install NVIDIA driver?

[Michael]

Hi All,

[Minimal install, Devuan ASCII w/ Trinity Desktop Environment (TDE)]

I’m trying to install NVIDIA drivers for a GTX 1060.  I’m basically following 
the Debian instructions [1], modified for Devuan and got to the last step, 
which error-ed out.  The summary of the error is:

The following packages have unmet dependencies:
 nvidia-driver : PreDepends: nvidia-installer-cleanup but it is not 
installable

I’d also like someone to check if I’ve modified sources.list correctly.

Full command line output and error message below:

Thanks all,
Michael

[1] https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers


root@local [/etc/apt]# lspci -nn | egrep -i "3d|display|vga"
2e:00.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: NVIDIA Corporation GP106 [GeForce 
GTX 1060 6GB] [10de:1c03] (rev a1)


*Same error whether or not you use backports
root@local [/etc/apt]# apt-get install -t ascii-backports nvidia-driver
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have
requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable
distribution that some required packages have not yet been created
or been moved out of Incoming.
The following information may help to resolve the situation:

The following packages have unmet dependencies:
 nvidia-driver : PreDepends: nvidia-installer-cleanup but it is not 
installable
 PreDepends: nvidia-legacy-check (>= 343) but it is not going 
to be installed
 Depends: nvidia-driver-libs (= 390.87-4~bpo9+1) but it is not 
going to be installed or
  nvidia-driver-libs-nonglvnd (= 390.87-4~bpo9+1) but 
it is not going to be installed
 Depends: nvidia-driver-bin (= 390.87-4~bpo9+1) but it is not 
going to be installed
 Depends: xserver-xorg-video-nvidia (= 390.87-4~bpo9+1) but it 
is not going to be installed
 Depends: nvidia-vdpau-driver (= 390.87-4~bpo9+1) but it is 
not going to be installed
 Depends: nvidia-alternative (= 390.87-4~bpo9+1) but it is not 
going to be installed
 Depends: nvidia-kernel-dkms (= 390.87-4~bpo9+1) but it is not 
going to be installed or
  nvidia-kernel-390.87
 Depends: nvidia-support but it is not installable
 Recommends: nvidia-settings (>= 390) but it is not 
installable
 Recommends: nvidia-persistenced but it is not installable
E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.


root@local [/etc/apt]# ll /etc/X11/xorg.conf
ls: cannot access '/etc/X11/xorg.conf': No such file or directory



root@local [/etc/apt]# cat sources.list
#

# deb cdrom:[devuan_ascii_2.0.0_amd64_dvd-1]/ ascii main non-free
# deb cdrom:[devuan_ascii_2.0.0_amd64_dvd-1]/ ascii main non-free

deb http://us.deb.devuan.org/merged ascii main non-free
deb-src http://us.deb.devuan.org/merged ascii main non-free


deb http://us.deb.devuan.org/merged ascii-security main non-free
deb-src http://us.deb.devuan.org/merged ascii-security main non-free

deb http://us.deb.devuan.org/merged ascii-updates main non-free
deb-src http://us.deb.devuan.org/merged ascii-updates main non-free

deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged ascii-backports main non-free
deb-src http://deb.devuan.org/merged ascii-backports main non-free


## Trinity - TDE R14.0.5
deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-r14.0.0/debian 
stretch main
deb 
http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-builddeps-r14.0.0/debian 
stretch main
deb-src http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-r14.0.0/debian 
stretch main
deb-src 
http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity-builddeps-r14.0.0/debian 
stretch main

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Re: [DNG] What should be the tasks of the Devuan Installer

[Michael]

On Tuesday 18 December 2018 07:19:05 am Hendrik Boom wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 17, 2018 at 10:51:53PM -0500, Steve Litt wrote:
> > On Sun, 16 Dec 2018 13:28:43 +0100
> > KatolaZ  wrote:
> >
> > Also, Hendrik is right: If the bootable installer
> > finds information, it should be saved for the secondary installer to
> > use.
>
> It would be enough if the software the bootable installer used were
> still available after the minimal installation to find out the same
> information again.  And if it were clearly documented how the user
> could go about this.

Would this be any different from the user’s perspective than them using 
something like the Synaptic package manager?  If not, then some documentation 
during install would work?

Best,
Michael
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Re: [DNG] ifstat.eth0 on Boot [SOLVED]

[Michael K.]

!Ola outra vez!

and: sorry for delay ...
(to be ill)

Am 10.12.18 um 16:26 schrieb Didier Kryn:
> don't ask me why, I don't know, but it works.

OK, *Big Thanks* for Help and the Script.

*Yes! it work's for me*

Happy Hollyday's @all (whatever you celebrate)

Michael

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[DNG] ifstat.eth0 on Boot

[Michael K.]

¡Ola!

After a Dev1 Setup on a Laptop (whit eth0), i have to wait a long time
for the eth0 on "cold boot".

I "cold boot" my Laptop
I look to the "Boot Messages"
I see the following Msg:

Configuring Network Interfaces ifup: Waiting for Lock on
/run/network/ifstat.eth0

After 2 or 3 minutes to wait, the Laptop boot up,

In the folder /run/network/ i have - after the "long to wait boot":

ifstat  (content: eth0=eth0 and lo=lo
ifstat.eth0 (content: eth0 )
ifstat.lo   (content: lo )
ifstat.lock (content: empty )

The Packet: ifstat (1.1-8.1) current *not* installed!

What must i do to speed up my Dev1 Boot ?!

Thanks
Michael

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[DNG] XFCE : can't open xsession-errors anymore (invalid UTF-8)

[Michael K.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

*Big Thanks* @all at first for help and clue

Dear readers,

Am 26.10.18 um 20:21 schrieb Michael K.:
> Hey List readers,

abstract:

i can open my ".xsession-error" File whit: Emacs, NANO and also the MC
or wxHex

i make a "backup" of my ol' xsession-error file
i make a log-of/on on my "Xsession" (to get a new xsession-error file)
i can open my xsession-error file in my IDE ... (again)


Hint: i don't edit my DOTxsession-erorr File, i only observe it by work.
And for me the easy way to do this, is a new "Tab" in my default IDE.
(Geany)


> USER@deskt0p:~$ stat .xsession-errors Datei: .xsession-errors 
> Größe: 2508836Blöcke: 4912   EA Block: 4096   reguläre
> Datei Gerät: fe01h/65025d Inode: 21233736Verknüpfungen: 1 
> Zugriff: (0600/-rw---)  Uid: ( 1000/ USER)   Gid: ( 1000/
> USER) Zugriff: 2018-10-26 19:22:01.059698862 +0200 Modifiziert:
> 2018-10-28 12:53:06.735892443 +0100 Geändert   : 2018-10-28
> 12:53:06.735892443 +0100 Geburt: - USER@deskt0p:~$ hexdump -n 3
> -C .xsession-errors   58 73 65
> |Xse| 0003 USER@deskt0p:~$

i will observe, if thus happend again

thanks for help
michael

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[DNG] XFCE : can't open xsession-errors anymore (invalid UTF-8)

[Michael K.]

Hey List readers,

i use, under Dev1, XFCE and "geany 1.29" as my default IDE / Text editor.

I observe my xsession-errors on this way also, long time ago. But, i
can't open my ".xsession-errors" file whit any text editor?

A "text editor" tells me on opening the file: this file is a invalid UTF-8

what must i do to re-open my ".xsession-errors" in a text editor?

Thanks in advanced
Michael


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Re: [DNG] what happened to usbmount?

[Michael Ranft]

On Dienstag, 19. Juni 2018 14:16:49 CEST dan pridgeon wrote:
>   From: "li...@michaelranft.com" 
>  To: dng@lists.dyne.org
>  Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2018 5:27 AM
>  Subject: Re: [DNG] what happened to usbmount?
> 
> On Dienstag, 19. Juni 2018 19:15:44 CEST Erik Christiansen wrote:
> > On 19.06.18 02:38, James Cloos wrote:
> > > >>>>> "HB" == Haines Brown  writes:
> > > HB> Has an alternative been developed without the problems associated
> > > HB> with usbmount?
> > > 
> > > pmount may be what you want.
> > > 
> > > I've not used it on devuan (or debian), but it works well on my gentoo
> > > workstation.
> > 
> > I've used it very happily for years on ubuntu and debian, and have just
> > installed it on devuan ascii. If someone can drop a hint on how to find
> > out the device of the usb stick I've just plugged in (it isn't
> > automounting)
> 
> easiest way would be a
> tail -fn 50 /var/log/messages
> before or right after plugging it in to determine the device's name from
> /var/ log/messages. Ctrl-c finishes output from tail
> 
> Michael
> ___
> 
> dmesg | tail works for me.

including Martin's suggestion we have four different short snippets providing 
this info, while tail -fn 50 /var/log/messages seems the longest one and there 
are surely more than these 4.
Isn't it just beautiful having this diversity.
BTW, I'm glad I didn't have to walk this narrowing path of sD and hope I'll 
never have to.
Just want to say thank all of you working on Devuan!
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Re: [DNG] Ascii LVM Encrypted Issue

[Michael McConnell]

Thanks,

I’ve know been through the Graphic and Text based installs and did not see any 
such prompt. I’ve even done what was suggested and did the install from a USB 
key and still the issue persists - installing Devuan ASCII and using LVM 
Encryption results in the requirement for a PS2 input to unlock the encryption. 

Unless there is something I am missing here, I believe this is in fact a bug.

Any suggestions or input would be very much appreciated!

Thanks again,
Mike

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> On Jun 15, 2018, at 2:37 AM, Didier Kryn  wrote:
> 
> Le 15/06/2018 à 02:05, Michael McConnell a écrit :
>> Thanks for the reply, but at no point during the install do I see an option 
>> to install the “necessary” drivers? I just ran through the install once more 
>> and still don’t see any prompt or indication asking about supporting USB 
>> drivers. I did the install using a USB keyboard on both the VM instance and 
>> the dedicated hardware.
>> 
> AFAIR, this choice has been present in Debian installer for at least a 
> decade and I confirm it's still present in Devuan-ASCII - I don't remember in 
> which step though.
> 
> The choice is rather radical and the option to only install the drivers 
> for devices present at install time is mostly meant for industrial SBCs and 
> hand-held devices which don't accept any hot-pluggable device. It is also 
> interesting for security reasons.
> 
> It would be nice to have an intermediate choice including all common 
> hot-pluggable devices, but, there isn't. It might help to install from a USB 
> stick, or just pug one in during install.
> 
> Didier
> 
> 
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Re: [DNG] Ascii LVM Encrypted Issue

[Michael McConnell]

Thanks for the reply, but at no point during the install do I see an option to 
install the “necessary” drivers? I just ran through the install once more and 
still don’t see any prompt or indication asking about supporting USB drivers. I 
did the install using a USB keyboard on both the VM instance and the dedicated 
hardware. 

Thanks again,
Mike

> On Jun 14, 2018, at 5:04 PM, KatolaZ  wrote:
> 
> On Thu, Jun 14, 2018 at 10:44:10PM +0200, Stefan Krusche wrote:
>> Am Donnerstag 14 Juni 2018 schrieb Michael McConnell:
>>> Thanks for confirming I am not going crazy (: I've been googling around 
>>> to see if USB is a non-free firmware element and from what I can tell 
>>> since loading firmware via USB seems to be the recommended way to load 
>>> non-free drivers I doubt this is a licensing issue. From what I've read 
>>> it appears intel and a few others gave USB 100% license free. Sooo is 
>>> this just an overlooked driver from the release?
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> Mike
>> 
>> The driver for USB is in the standard kernel. It just wasn't included in the 
>> initrd created during my installation, at least not the one for the USB 
>> keyboard, as I did the installation with another, old PS2 keyboard *and* 
>> chose "only necessary drivers", not "generic", which includes all the 
>> available drivers into the initrd, if I understand correctly. So, as no USB 
>> was being used during install the installer included no USB drivers in 
>> initrd, I think. In my case the problem didn't have anything to do with 
>> licensing or non-available non-free software or something like that.
>> 
> 
> Hi Stefan,
> 
> if you choose to install only the necessary drivers, you will be
> guaranteed to have only the drivers needed for the hardware present in
> the system at install time. That's the reason why you don't get USB
> modules in the initrd (which is exactly what I would expect to happen
> if I asked to include only the necessary drivers, TBH).
> 
> I guess there is genuinely no bug here, just a feature ;) I am sure
> you get the point.
> 
> HND
> 
> KatolaZ
> 
> -- 
> [ ~.,_  Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - Devuan -- Freaknet Medialab  ]  
> [ "+.  katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it  ]
> [   @)   http://kalos.mine.nu ---  Devuan GNU + Linux User  ]
> [ @@)  http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia --  GPG: 0B5F062F  ] 
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Re: [DNG] Ascii LVM Encrypted Issue

[Michael McConnell]

Thanks for confirming I am not going crazy (: I've been googling around 
to see if USB is a non-free firmware element and from what I can tell 
since loading firmware via USB seems to be the recommended way to load 
non-free drivers I doubt this is a licensing issue. From what I've read 
it appears intel and a few others gave USB 100% license free. Sooo is 
this just an overlooked driver from the release?


Cheers,
Mike


On 06/14/2018 02:15 AM, Stefan Krusche wrote:

Am Donnerstag 14 Juni 2018 schrieb Michael McConnell:

Hello All,
I've run this test both on Hyper-V VM install and a dedicated hardware install 
using a Dell R210ii, and the results are the same. If I do a new install using 
ASCII and use the default full disk encryption with LVM option - everything 
goes good, until the initial first boot. Upon boot up no matter what I do key 
presses don't register and no way to unlock the disk. I am using a USB 
keyboard, and I’ve tried a couple different models and the keyboard and configs 
i’m using have been fine going as far back as Ubuntu 12.04.
I will try this with a legacy PS2 device if I can track one down this week, but 
my guess is no USB support from the busybox side.
Cheers,
Mike

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Hello Michael,

I had this very same phenomenon. The reason in my case was, that the USB driver 
(general or for the keyboard I don't know) wasn't included in the initrd as I 
had used an old PS2 keyboard during installation.

When the installer was about to generate initrd and asked wether to create a 
"generic" ramdisk or to use only the necessary drivers, I chose the latter.

When later I restarted the machine with my plugged in shiny USB keyboard it 
wouldn't work as you described.

With the old keyboard again I could enter crypt passphrase etc. and start the 
machine. I Plugged in the USB keyboard and recreated the initrd which solved 
the issue for me.

Hope this helps,
Stefan

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[DNG] Ascii LVM Encrypted Issue

[Michael McConnell]

Hello All,
I've run this test both on Hyper-V VM install and a dedicated hardware install 
using a Dell R210ii, and the results are the same. If I do a new install using 
ASCII and use the default full disk encryption with LVM option - everything 
goes good, until the initial first boot. Upon boot up no matter what I do key 
presses don't register and no way to unlock the disk. I am using a USB 
keyboard, and I’ve tried a couple different models and the keyboard and configs 
i’m using have been fine going as far back as Ubuntu 12.04.
I will try this with a legacy PS2 device if I can track one down this week, but 
my guess is no USB support from the busybox side.
Cheers,
Mike

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Re: [DNG] Backup plans: was Which is free, which is open source, et al.

[Michael Siegel]

Am 13.01.2018 um 18:02 schrieb Steve Litt:

[snip]

> * OpenBSD now has hardware assisted virtual machines and is a great
> and stable "Linux".

sed 's/Linux/Unix-like OS/'

Also, there's a considerable (non-technical) difference between what
GNU+Linux distributions like Devuan on the one side and OpenBSD on the
other consider free software. Linux is being released under the terms of
the GPLv2, OpenBSD isn't. In fact, OpenBSD is anti-GPL:

"The GNU Public License and licenses modeled on it impose the
restriction that source code must be distributed or made available for
all works that are derivatives of the GNU copyrighted code.

While this may superficially look like a noble strategy, it is a
condition that is typically unacceptable for commercial use of software.
So in practice, it usually ends up hindering free sharing and reuse of
code and ideas rather than encouraging it. As a consequence, no
additional software bound by the GPL terms will be considered for
inclusion into the OpenBSD base system.

For historical reasons, the OpenBSD base system still includes the
following GPL-licensed components: the GNU compiler collection (GCC)
with supporting binutils and libraries, GNU CVS, GNU texinfo, the
mkhybrid file system creation tool, and the readline library.
Replacement by equivalent, more freely licensed tools is a long-term
desideratum."

(https://www.openbsd.org/policy.html)

> * I've heard that there are now sans-systemD versions of Arch. Given 
> that once upon a time Arch prided itself as being very close to the 
> metal, a sans-systemD Arch would be a wonderful machine.
> 
> For the Devuan user, these are definitely *plan Bs*. Only two aren't 
> rolling releases, and one of those doesn't even use the Linux
> kernel. I've tried them all, and I think all of them are "more
> difficult" than Devuan. Funtoo is a serious time committment: Source
> compilation isn't instant.

Apparently, the canonical list of F/OSS operating systems without
SystemD is at:
http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page#Free_and_Open-Source_.28FOSS.29_operating_systemswithout_systemd_in_the_default_installation

[snip]


Best,

msi

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Re: [DNG] listing partitions conveniently

[Michael Siegel]

Am 31.12.2017 um 00:32 schrieb Hendrik Boom:
> Disk partitions seem to have many names.  THis is convenient, but also 
> confusing. 
> 
> Names might be
>   the current mount point
>   the mount point mentioned in /etc/fstab (usually, but not always, the 
> same)
>   the /dev/disk/by-uuid name
>   the /dev/disk/by-label name
>   the /dev/diskby-id nane
>   the uuid
>   the /dev/dm-* name
> 
> etc., etc.
> 
> Is there some simple, readable way to list them all, partition by 
> partition, giving all the names for each one?

Isn't 'lsblk' able to do this?


msi

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Re: [DNG] Devuan releases and roadmap

[Michael Siegel]

Am 28.12.2017 um 14:45 schrieb Mike Tubby:

[...]

> Reading the 'Release Information' at:
> 
> https://devuan.org/os/releases
> 
> it is not terribly clear to me exactly which Debian 'Jessie' the Devuan
> 'Jessie' is built upon - the reason for this is that Debian has 'point
> releases', e.g 8.0, 8.1, 8.2 ... and the current Debian Jessie is
> release 8.10 dated 9th December 2017.

[...]

My understanding is that Devuan is not and can't be based on a
particular Debian point release.

If you're running Debian 8, then when 8.10 is released and you run
"apt-get update && apt-get upgrade", you'll be running 8.10 after that,
won't you?

And as Devuan mostly tracks Debian's package repositories, except for
packages that require adjustment to run without systemd or
systemd-related components, that should also apply to Devuan.

Correct me, if I'm wrong.


Best,

msi
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Re: [DNG] Devuan in the German Wikipedia

[Michael Siegel]

Am 19.12.2017 um 10:23 schrieb Jaromil:
> 
> dear Michael,
> 
> On Tue, 19 Dec 2017, Michael Siegel wrote:
> 
>> 1.
>> The intro paragraph says:
>> "Erklärtes Ziel ist es, nicht den umstrittenen systemd-Dienst als
>> 'init'-Prozess fest vorzugeben, sondern die Wahl des init-Prozesses dem
>> Anwender zu überlassen und ein möglichst breites Spektrum an
>> init-Systemen zu unterstützen wie es auch in Debian möglich ist.[2]"
>>
>> That translates to: "The stated aim is not to prescribe the
>> controversial systemd service as the 'init' system, but leave the choice
>> of the init system to the user and to support a preferably wide range of
>> init systems like it is also possible in Debian.[2]"
>>
>> Question: How does Debian support a wide range of init systems? Even the
>> claim that supporting a variety of init systems is possible with Debian
>> is at least a half-truth if you take into account what it takes to not
>> use systemd.
>>
>> The source cited in the footnote is https://devuan.org/os/init-freedom.
>> That web page, however, doesn't state it as Devuan's aim to support a
>> preferably wide range of init systems, but rather to "restor[e] a sane
>> approach to PID1". And, of course, it doesn't claim Debian was able to
>> support a variety of init systems. It actually states the opposite, stating:
>> "While Debian claims that 'Systemd is becoming the de facto standard
>> init system for Linux', a number of GNU/Linux distributions, some new,
>> beg to differ. While Debian claims that 'It is better than existing
>> alternatives for all of Debian's current use cases', these rebel
>> GNU/Linux distributions refuse this one-size-fits-all vision of the *nix
>> world that breaks portability, ignores backwards compatibility, and
>> replaces existing services, forcing systemd into adoption."
>>
>> The sentence that follows the one quoted above makes things even worse:
>> "Im Gegensatz zu Debian entfernt Devuan allerdings die Unterstützung für
>> systemd."
>>
>> Translated: "But contrary to Debian, Devuan removes support for systemd."
>>
>> To sum up: Devuan doesn't want to enforece systemd onto its users but
>> leave them a choice and support a variety of init systems. But that is
>> also possible with Debian. Only Devuan removes support for systemd.
>>
>> That's not exactly right, is it?
> 
> I believe this is correct and in line with our proposition. As a
> matter of fact we are fixing init packages that do not work in Debian,
> for instance OpenRC, nothwithstanding sysvinit stays the default, also
> in ASCII.

The point I was trying to make there, was that the way the article
states those facts is misleading, not that they are actually untrue. It
just really provokes the question "So, why use Devuan at all?" in kind
of a strange way. And as a whole, it gives a wrong impression of what
Devuan is.

Could you or someone else maybe comment on the above in more detail,
especially on the question of support and choice of init systems in
Debian? I have now watched the video linked on
https://devuan.org/os/init-freedom and found that talking about Debian's
way of packaging OpenRC at the end of your presentation, you actually
give an example of Debian making it hard to use other init systems.

As I understand it, Debian making it hard to use anything else than
systemd is actually the main reason for Devuan's existence.

>> 2.
>> A few paragraphs later, the article claims that Devuan was also aiming
>> to "make it possible" to use systemd, provided its integration won't
>> collide with other init systems or create incompatibilities: "Auch
>> systemd soll ermöglicht werden, sofern die Integration ohne Kollision
>> mit anderen init-Systemen oder Inkompatibilitäten möglich ist.[2]"
>>
>> What did that footnote point to again? Right,
>> https://devuan.org/os/init-freedom .
>>
>> Now, that is an obvious mismatch.
> 
> No, this is correct too. If systemd would be only an init we'd be fine
> with it. Also please note our problem is specifically with Debian
> where a weak and manipulated majority has unresponsibly taken over and
> decided to impose systemd to everyone, disregarding what the users
> were asking and in fact violating its social contract.
> 
> I explain this in the video linked from that page.

I see. The article should better cite that video directly whenever it
draws on your presentation at FSCONS.

Also, systemd restricting itself to only being an init system seems to
go fundamentally against its design principles which in turn makes
inclusion into Devuan very unlikely, doesn't it?

[snip]

>> 5.
>> Maybe someone should provide a screen shot of a Devuan Jessie desktop
>> with Xfce in place.
> 
> Golinux is the best one to do that.

Right. I'll ask her.

> Many thanks for your attention to details!

Thanks for your reply!


Best,

msi
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Re: [DNG] fvwm

[Michael Siegel]

Am 23.08.2017 um 09:31 schrieb Harald Arnesen:
> Steve Litt [2017-08-22 23:59]:
> 
>> As far as #1, what the hell does "session" mean? A session is something
>> that runs for awhile, and usually the implication is it's already
>> running. I think the word "session" needs to be changed to "GOSFUI". If
>> you'd rather not use a word directly created to handle the exact
>> concept, you could substitute "window manager or desktop environment".
> 
> "Window Manager" would be the best, I think. I agree that "Session" can
> be misleading. How many users would know what you mean by "GOSFUI", a
> not at all intuitive and far too long abbreviation almost never used
> outside of this mailing list?

What is being chosen there, is actually a profile for the graphical
environment. So, neither "window manager" nor "desktop environment"
really fit. You could say "profile", but "session" seems to be the
(de-facto) standard term. Also, it makes some sense if you think about
what session management is.


msi
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Re: [DNG] openbox-themes in ASCII?

[Michael Siegel]

Am 21.08.2017 um 21:57 schrieb fsmithred:
> On 08/21/2017 08:59 AM, Michael Siegel wrote:
>> Am 18.08.2017 um 16:04 schrieb fsmithred:
>> 
>> What exactly do you mean by "some themes don't work"? I use obconf
>>  for setting the wm theme and gtk-theme-switch2 for setting the GTK
>>  theme. I just installed the openbox-themes package again and went
>>  through all the themes as well as the corresponding GTK themes 
>> where available. I couldn't make out any problem.
>> 
> 
> The colors that I got did not match the colors in the samples. Lots 
> of gray, especially the hightlight. Some of those corrected when I 
> used lxappearance-obconf.

And you are referring to the Openbox themes themselves and not the
corresponding GTK2 themes coming with some of them? As you probably
know, the Openbox themes themselves are not responsible for what's
happening inside application windows. That's why you will have so set
Openbox and GTK2 (or Qt etc.) themes separately. Maybe
lxappearance-obconf tries to find the GTK themes automatically.

>>> Separating the themes into several packages shouldn't be hard, 
>>> either.
>> 
>> Good. I think that would make a lot of sense, from a user 
>> perspective as well as for maintenance purposes. So, if I gave you
>>  the theme files, could you package them? That would be great. As 
>> soon as I'm able to do the packaging myself, I could take over all
>>  the maintenance.
>> 
> 
> If you edit the existing theme files, I should be able to replace 
> them and rebuild. Let's start with one or two and make sure it 
> works.

Well, I wasn't going to edit anything, but there are new versions for
some of those themes that we could try. Maybe we could try building
per-collection packages right away. I'll think of something.

>> Well, I don't know if it's a reasonable aim to make anything work 
>> with GTK3. From what I've read, theming for GTK3 seems like a 
>> tedious waste of time. I mean, if someone volunteers to do it, 
>> great. But I don't really mind if that doesn't happen.
>> 
> 
> Good point. I was not thinking.

As it seems, some of the theme creators are taking care of GTK3 support
upstream. But as GTK3 seems to excel in regular API breakage that
doesn't really help either.


msi
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Re: [DNG] openbox-themes in ASCII?

[Michael Siegel]

Am 18.08.2017 um 16:04 schrieb fsmithred:

> I downloaded the wheezy source and built a package on ascii pretty 
> easily last night. Didn't change anything.

Nice. But the package meta data would have to be revised for an official
Devuan package, I guess.

> Some themes work, some don't, and they seem to work better if I use
> lxappearance-obconf instead of just obconf.

What exactly do you mean by "some themes don't work"? I use obconf for
setting the wm theme and gtk-theme-switch2 for setting the GTK theme. I
just installed the openbox-themes package again and went through all the
themes as well as the corresponding GTK themes where available. I
couldn't make out any problem.

> Separating the themes into several packages shouldn't be hard,
> either.

Good. I think that would make a lot of sense, from a user perspective as
well as for maintenance purposes. So, if I gave you the theme files,
could you package them? That would be great. As soon as I'm able to do
the packaging myself, I could take over all the maintenance.

> Getting them to work with gtk3 might require a large non-gmo care
> package in the form of a bribe to a certain theme guru.

Well, I don't know if it's a reasonable aim to make anything work with
GTK3. From what I've read, theming for GTK3 seems like a tedious waste
of time. I mean, if someone volunteers to do it, great. But I don't
really mind if that doesn't happen.


msi
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[DNG] openbox-themes in ASCII?

[Michael Siegel]

In Debian Wheezy, there was a package called openbox-themes
(https://packages.debian.org/wheezy/openbox-themes), offering a pretty
nice collection of themes for the Openbox window manager, some of them
coming with matching GTK2 themes. Unfortunately, this package has been
dropped with the release of Debian Jessie.

As I'm an Openbox user, I would really like it if these themes could be
made available through the package repositories in Devuan again. I
already tried installing the package from Debian Wheezy on Devuan Jessie
a view months ago. That worked just fine. And as that package doesn't
have any dependencies except Openbox and (apart from the standard
package files) consists of nothing but theme files, forking should be
quick and easy for someone who knows how to create Debian packages.

(Those having déjà vu redaing this, see
https://git.devuan.org/devuan-editors/devuan-art/issues/10.)

Also, I thought it would be a good idea to find current official sources
and recent versions of all those themes. So, I drew up a table and
started to collect data that may be used for building an up-to-date and
expanded openbox-themes package for Devuan. That table currently
includes information on 131 themes, mostly those from the original
openbox-themes package plus the ones currently being shipped with
Openbox itself as well as a few worthy additons (e.g. themes linked on
Openbox' official website that had not been part of the Debian Wheezy
package and are not currently being shipped with Openbox).

I was actually planning to create the package myself and then put it up
for review. But I got stuck in the process of learning how to build
Debian packages. It's a lot more complex than I thought it was and I
can't find the time to deal with that at the moment. So, I'm looking for
someone to assist. I could prepare a tar ball containing the updated and
expanded themes collection, so whoever would do the packaging would not
have to worry about that part.


msi
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Re: [DNG] Devuan presentation at Chemnitzer Linux-Tage (Germany) 2018?

[Michael Siegel]

Am 12.08.2017 um 22:16 schrieb Evilham:

>> * Giving a talk of about 30 to 45 minutes and answering questions
>> from the audience for another 30 or 15 minutes respectively
>> 
>> * Having a booth in the exhibition area of the building where
>> people can come by, inform themselves, ask questions, obtain
>> installation media and such
>> 
>> I think it should be possible to have both if available manpower
>> allows for that.
> 
> Maybe both is not quite necessary, you know how that goes, people
> come to you afterwards if they are interested. OTOH: if enough people
> end up volunteering, sure why not.

I think a talk should be enough for now.

> Let's see how much interest this gathers and what can be done from
> that, did you have any particular topic in mind?

As for the topic of the talk, I was thinking of a general introduction
to Devuan, i.e. something like:

* What is Devuan?
* Why and how did it come about?
* How does the process of creating releases for this distribution work?
* What does the system have to offer?
* Where can you get Devuan to try it out/install it?
* Future plans
* Where does the project need help?/How to contribute?


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[DNG] Devuan presentation at Chemnitzer Linux-Tage (Germany) 2018?

[Michael Siegel]

There is a pretty big (2500-3000 visitors) Linux/FOSS event taking place
in Chemnitz (Germany) in March. It's called Chemnitzer Linux Tage
(Chemnitz Linux Days) and has been held annually since 1999. The
project's website can be found at

https://chemnitzer.linux-tage.de.

The "About Us" page is at

https://chemnitzer.linux-tage.de/2017/en/info/about

I think it would be great if Devuan presented itself there.

There are two possible ways of doing that:

* Giving a talk of about 30 to 45 minutes and answering questions from
the audience for another 30 or 15 minutes respectively

* Having a booth in the exhibition area of the building where people can
come by, inform themselves, ask questions, obtain installation media and
such

I think it should be possible to have both if available manpower allows
for that.

It would be best if a possible talk could be given in German language,
though that's not mandatory. The call for lectures will presumably be
out in mid-October. The website also has some notes for speakers
(https://chemnitzer.linux-tage.de/2017/en/programm/hinweise) as well as
for exhibitors
(https://chemnitzer.linux-tage.de/2017/en/programm/hinweise) that should
be considered.

So, if anyone's interested, I'd be quite happy. I could help organizing
things.


msi
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Re: [DNG] Ian Murdock

[Michael Bütow]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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On 12/31/2015 12:25 AM, Go Linux  wrote:

> Perhaps Devuan should consider dedicating the Beta to Ian?

I think it would be fitting if Devuan dedicated their first official
release to him.
R.I.P. Ian, you have inspired us all through your work and life.

:-(


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[DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

[Michael Bütow]

Article here:

https://tlhp.cf/lennart-poettering-su/

I for one look forward to not having any of this madness one day when I
transition completely to Devuan!

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Re: [DNG] Will there be a MirDevuan WTF?

[Michael Bütow]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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On 23/07/15 07:49, James Powell wrote:

 Devuan's main purpose is getting rid of systemd as a hard dependency and 
 allowing user choice in
init software

Well said, thank you, I very much agree with your entire post and would
prefer if there was less noise about unrelated topics.

A quick search suggests that it local D-Bus communication is
unencrypted, but it can be set up to communicate with applications on
remote hosts using SSH connections.
I am sure if someone wants to expend the energy to get rid of D-Bus
related software in Devuan, they can set up their own spin of it.

Michael
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Re: [DNG] I am not using systemd and plan to avoid it

[Michael Bütow]

dng-requ...@lists.dyne.org wrote on 16/07/15 03:39:
 Re: [DNG] I am not using systemd and plan to avoid it
Happy to say that after I voted it was 633 users for and 634 against
(not planning to use it).

Due to the construction of the poll, the plan to avoid figure includes
those of us who will be forced to use it anyway due to work requirements
etc.
I feel the poll would be better if it had a more explicit option I am
not using systemd and do not want to, but am forced to use it at work.
This would give a clearer indication of the coercion factor.

Michael

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Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

[Michael Bütow]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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+1 for not changing the defaults at this time.

I feel this could start a multitude of little holy wars (editor, mta,
etc.) which we don't need right now that the first goal - Debian, but
without systemd - is within grasp.

Expert users can adapt from the Debian defaults to do what they need.
I'd find it more valuable to have commonality with Debian here that
sysadmins can automate customisation on both with the least amount of
difference.

Michael
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Re: [Dng] What's new in Systemd

[Michael Dec]

On 2015-02-02 17:47, T.J. Duchene wrote:

Funny thing.  I hear a lot of complaining about systemd, and yes, i
think some of it is justified, but consider this...Rather than 
joining

the project and steering it in another direction, or creating patches
to fix what you do not like, everyone is just standing about
complaining.  Now this is not to say that Devuan is sitting on its
hands.  No one here, minus FreeBSD seems to me at least to have a
clear action plan.  You cant avoid systemd forever, and at some point
compatibility is going to have to be provided. 

Better now than later.  I think FreeBSD and uselessd have the best
approaches.

Just for the case of devels advocate (yes deliberate pun)  systemd
can be compiled with an absolute minimum.
OpenRC works just fine and it has all the rings and bells you would 
want from systemd:

- logs (lol, welcome to 1980?)
- cgroups management
- parallel service start

Interestingly, cgroups can be disabled and this is why this init runs 
on BSD, these just don't exist there.
It really doesn't hurt to have a familiar software stack across 
different operating systems. Time wasted on retraining is time you 
could've used to do actual work. Especially if there's literally no 
benefit to said retraining.


Regards,
Michael
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Re: [Dng] sugestion apulse as pulseaudio replcement

[Michael Dec]

On 2015-01-23 10:16, Javier Ortega Conde (Malkavian) wrote:

Hi Sean:


I would love to see jack as a default or as an optional package with
sane defaults. If pulse is really needed,it works as a jack client.
I have to kill -9 pulse frequently as it leaks badly and wont die;


You mean it's leaking memory? Is there a bug filed against PA for this?
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