[DNG] Fwd: Future of gNewSense: Debian or Devuan?

[Narcis Garcia]

 Missatge reenviat 
Assumpte: Re: [DNG] Future of gNewSense: Debian or Devuan?
Data: Sat, 3 Aug 2019 12:36:10 -0300
De: pekman 
Organització: devuan
A: dng@lists.dyne.org

Em Wed, 31 Jul 2019 10:29:39 +0200
Narcis Garcia  escreveu:

>  Missatge reenviat 
> Assumpte: Re: [gNewSense-users] Stepping down
> Data: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 22:45:32 +0200
> De: Sam Geeraerts 
> A: gnewsense-us...@nongnu.org
> 
> On 29/07/19 17:10, Will Hill wrote:
>  [...]  
> 
> Indeed, at least technically. If there's anyone here who knows some
> Devuan people it would be interesting to hear from him/her.
> 
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> 
> 
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I think GNewSense is welcome.

Devuan will be a great basis for your development. The work to do is
not complex. I myself was able to remove all Non-Free Software on my
own and install Linux Libre bundled with Jason Self.
Good news, everything works as expected.

Currently I collaborate with the Devuan documentation in Portuguese
language and in the development of Hyperbola GNU/Linux-Libre.

Devua will be a great choice for the future of GNewSense.

I'm hoping for a prosperous future for the whole team, which will find
a solid solution for one of the first FSF certified distros.
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Re: [DNG] Future of gNewSense: Debian or Devuan?

[Narcis Garcia]

El 2/8/19 a les 18:25, Antoine via Dng ha escrit:
> someone on the gNewSense list floated the idea of rebasing their distro
> on Devuan, rather than having to rip systemd out themselves (from
> Debian, their current base). The above post was then transmitted to us
> in search of anyone interested in cooperating.

+1
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Re: [DNG] Future of gNewSense: Debian or Devuan?

[Narcis Garcia]

I'm sorry, this is the source of the original thread:
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnewsense-users
And concrete letters:
https://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/gnewsense-users/2019-07/index.html


El 1/8/19 a les 18:26, Steve Litt ha escrit:
> On Wed, 31 Jul 2019 10:29:39 +0200
> Narcis Garcia  wrote:
> 
>>  Missatge reenviat 
>> Assumpte: Re: [gNewSense-users] Stepping down
>> Data: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 22:45:32 +0200
>> De: Sam Geeraerts 
>> A: gnewsense-us...@nongnu.org
>>
>> On 29/07/19 17:10, Will Hill wrote:
>>> It would probably be easier to take non free software out of Devuan
>>> than it is to take Systemd out of Debian, so I'll be happy if
>>> gNewSense continues the easy way.  
>>
>> Indeed, at least technically. If there's anyone here who knows some
>> Devuan people it would be interesting to hear from him/her.
> 
> There's not enough context here to understand, and the attributions
> appear screwed up. I have no Devuan posts from Sam Geeraerts nor Will
> Hill, so I'm assuming this came in from somewhere else
> (gnewsense-us...@nongnue.org maybe?).
> 
> Anyway, if this is a suggestion to yank all nonfree out of Devuan and
> call it something else, that's fine with me. As a matter of fact,
> Devuan could slowly, selectively and judiciously make the same
> substitutions as the child distro.
> 
> But if the suggestion is to yank out nonfree and call it Devuan, for
> practical purposes that would make Devuan unbootable for a lot of
> people. Malfunctions during boot can have causes depending on tens or
> hundreds of factors, many hidden away. It's a bridge too far to
> expect someone booting up a distro for the first time to 1)
> Know all his hardware, 2) Know exactly what drivers and firmware to
> use, 3) Know where to find those drivers and firmware, 4) Know all the
> commands to correctly load those drivers and firmware from a thumb
> drive, and 5) Have enough spare time to go through all this.
> 
>  
> SteveT
> 
> Steve Litt 
> July 2019 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques
>  of the Successful Technologist
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques
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[DNG] Future of gNewSense: Debian or Devuan?

[Narcis Garcia]

 Missatge reenviat 
Assumpte: Re: [gNewSense-users] Stepping down
Data: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 22:45:32 +0200
De: Sam Geeraerts 
A: gnewsense-us...@nongnu.org

On 29/07/19 17:10, Will Hill wrote:
> It would probably be easier to take non free software out of Devuan than it 
> is 
> to take Systemd out of Debian, so I'll be happy if gNewSense continues the 
> easy way.

Indeed, at least technically. If there's anyone here who knows some
Devuan people it would be interesting to hear from him/her.

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Re: [DNG] Google abandons UEFI in Chromebooks

[Narcis Garcia]

Please shutdown this giant thread completely.
I'm near to unsubscribe from list.
Most of subjects you are chattering can be found with web browsing.
Devuan project is very fragile with this behaviour.


El 03/11/17 a les 06:25, Rick Moen ha escrit:
> I wrote:
> 
>> As it happens, as I mentioned, I just recently bought (to play with)  a
>> reconditioned Zotac CI321 w/4GB RAM and a 64GB SSD for US $125 with 1
>> year warranty from Zotac after John Franklin mentioned the Zotac
>> C-series here.  (TY, John!)  It has the Intel ME and Intel FSM problems,
>> too.
> [...]
>> The FSP is a separate problem (for both the Purism laptops and my
>> little toy Zotac), and I can't say much about more about that.
> 
> I'll do that now.  
> 
> Long ago, I had a Lucent Silver Wavelan PCMCIA 802.11b wireless card for
> my laptops.  At the time, this was the most universally best supported
> wireless chipset ever, using the orinoco_cs driver starting with the
> 2.4.3 Linux kernel.  Like all NICs of that generation, the card had a
> built-in ROM that hooked into hardware initialisation.
> 
> Newer cards (and motherboard chipsets) have often had hauntingly similar
> functionality to my old 802.11b card, but relegated the ROM
> initialisation to a binary-only firmware BLOB that must be hurled into
> RAM during hardware recognition -- a change made, as far as I can tell,
> just to save a trivial amount of money on ROM costs.  It occurred to me
> that the functionality of the new BLOBs and of my old Lucent card's ROM
> contents was the same.  In a few cases, the new BLOBs might even be
> exactly the same code, just dd'd to a file from what was formerly burned
> into a ROM.
> 
> I sometimes have Richard Stallman as a house guest, and I don't _think_ 
> I've yet raised this with him, but I keep intending to.  So, here's my
> attempt to imagine the conversation:
> 
> RM:  Here's my point:  Why are the firmware BLOBs a software freedom
>  issue, and the Lucent ROM was not?
> 
> RMS:  We at FSF seek freedom to modify in all general-use software, and
> the BLOBs, if they were freed, could give developers ability to
> improve them, the ability to ensure that they are
> freedom-protecting, and the ability to adapt that code to other
> purposes for everyone's benefit.
> 
> RM:  Sure, but why wasn't that by the same token an issue for the 
> Lucent ROM code?  And, for that matter, why not CPU microcode?
> 
> RMS:  Because those are hardware, and you can't change them.  Maybe
> one day we'll have full visibility into microcode, but one fight
> at a time.
> 
> RM:  Fair enough, but are you saying that FSF would have no problem
> with BLOB firmware images if they get burned into ROMs?  I'm
> not clear on why that would matter.  It's the same code doing
> the same functionality.  Also, I'm not sure the ROM code in
> a Lucent Silver could not be changed.  Often, these aren't 
> classic burn-once ROMs but rather EEPROMs.
> 
> RMS:  [here, I run out of imagination]
> 
> The Stallman in my head _might_ have countered that, well, the frontiers
> of free software (I almost said 'open source') change over time
> depending on what is feasible.  Back then, hardware init 'feature' ROMs
> were black boxes and we couldn't reasonably dream of changing that.
> Now, we may have many obstacles, but we can aspire.
> 
> Angling back to the Intel Firmware Support Package:  In 1997, it never
> would have even occurred to you to object to the (then-current analogue
> of the) Intel FSM as a free software issue, because you'd just call it
> 'the feature ROMs', and it was just an unavoidable black-box feature of
> your computer, like the CPU microcode.  Twenty years later, a bunch of
> people see that as an intolerable affront to freedom-respecting hardware
> design, even though nothing has actually changed.
> 
> But if that's not a grey area, then I don't know my greyscales.
> 
> (In fairness, Libreboot Project clarifies on
> https://libreboot.org/faq.html#intel that the FSP handles System
> Management Mode, which raises a genuine security concern, in addition to
> doing 1997-style hardware initialisation.  To quote my favourite line
> from 'The West Wing', 'Ah, the rare valid point.')
> 
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Re: [DNG] Redhat CEO answers questions

[Narcis Garcia]

El 02/11/17 a les 14:58, zap ha escrit:
> 
>> Please no political jokes. Not everyone shares the same political opinion 
>> and the joke may be offensive to some.
> 
> I don't see why, but if it will keep peace then I will do so. But I wish
> to know what you mean by political jokes... free software has a
> political agenda too after all.
> 
> so I guess I will ask this, do you mean just political candidates/people
> in power?

In my humble opinion, better to mean any political out of this scope:
Devuan (includes FOSS) and Systemd as a particular case.

Because, any other jokes or ultra-developed threads are just off-topic
and making subscribers to unsubscribe some day.
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Re: [DNG] Google abandons UEFI in Chromebooks

[Narcis Garcia]

No project website for NERF?


El 30/10/17 a les 06:59, J. Fahrner ha escrit:
> https://osseu17.sched.com/event/ByYt/replace-your-exploit-ridden-firmware-with-linux-ronald-minnich-google
> 
> 
> Jochen
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Re: [DNG] UEFI and Secure Boot

[Narcis Garcia]

El 23/10/17 a les 21:42, John Franklin ha escrit:
> 
>> On Oct 23, 2017, at 2:37 PM, goli...@dyne.org wrote:
>>
>> On 2017-10-23 09:41, Steve Litt wrote:
>>> To get Windows 10 certification, you have to have Secure Boot but
>>> there's no requirement for an off switch.
>>> SteveT
>>
>> If that is true, it sounds like a class action law suit to me.  Anyone want 
>> to take it on?
> 
> Can you identify any vendors where you can’t install Linux?  If you can’t, 
> this just a bunch of FUD.
> 

A vendor: Turbo-X
The only way to install a GNU operating system is to void warranty with
opening laptop case, extract hard disk, wipe disk, remount pieces and
try to boot with same or another media.
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Re: [DNG] UEFI and Secure Boot

[Narcis Garcia]

El 23/10/17 a les 16:35, Arnt Gulbrandsen ha escrit:
> Didier Kryn writes:
>>     For me the things which need to be protected are
>>
>>     1) the data
>>     2) the OS, to avoid backdoors
>>
>>     I can't see any need to protect a motherboard against booting from
>> a "foreign" disk.
> 
> To access the data: Boot from foreign media, modify or replace the usual
> boot partition so it looks right until it asks for the disk encryption
> password, turn off the host, wait for the owner to turn it on and type
> in the password, done.
> 

I don't know better secure boot than your own removable media: MBR and
whole /boot on an USB key, and full disk encryption.
If you really need that level of security, don't trust to any installed
boot (UEFI/GRUB/etc).

Mainboard support for UEFIs aren't capable to trust the boot so
transparently as FOSS does.
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Re: [DNG] UEFI and Secure Boot

[Narcis Garcia]

+1

I perform a lot of GNU+Linux installs each month, and 99% of them are
absolutely wiping SecureBoot & UEFI.


El 22/10/17 a les 19:06, Steve Litt ha escrit:
> Hi all,
> 
> I basically said UEFI is junk and Secure Boot is an anti-small-distro
> monopolistic practice. These were, and continue to be, my opinions, but
> they're just one man's opinion. I can see use cases where Secure Boot
> would be great, and I can see cases where something like UEFI would be
> handy: But they're neither necessary nor wanted on MY computers.
> 
> If I had a real choice to stick with MBR and always be able to disable
> Secure Boot, the world would be fine. We'd all make our choice, and
> we'd all be happy.
> 
> But you don't know if you can turn off Secure Boot until you've bought
> the mobo or computer. This ability, which is the #1 priority for me,
> doesn't even make it to the specifications. There's no way to find out.
> THAT's why I hate Secure Boot.
> 
> Similar for UEFI. I don't like its architecture, for exactly the same
> reason I don't like KDE and I don't like systemd: Monolithic
> entanglement. Hey, my preference is to have modules communicate on a
> need to know basis. Others may differ: All I wish is that we all had
> our choice.
> 
> So I've written this email just to make sure my position is never
> interpreted as "nobody needs hardware protection against malware" or
> "nobody needs a system to prevent various boot code from clobbering
> each other." All I'm saying is it should be an option, and the
> existence of the option.
> 
> SteveT
> 
> Steve Litt 
> October 2017 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21
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Re: [DNG] systemd-udevd: renamed network interface eth0 to eth1

[Narcis Garcia]

Perhaps this helps you for a more static configuration:
https://git.actiu.net/libre/mactoname/


El 06/10/17 a les 18:12, J. Fahrner ha escrit:
> Hello,
> I found the message
> "systemd-udevd[415]: renamed network interface eth0 to eth1"
> in my dmesg log.
> 1. why is there a systemd daemon?
> 2. why is my ethernet device renamed?
> 
> I would like it as eth0 and wlan0, not eth1 and wlan1.
> 
> Jochen
> 
> 
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Re: [DNG] "the more you do, the stronger your voice"

[Narcis Garcia]

What failed in Debian was the votation count method (1+1+1 < 2)


El 14/10/17 a les 09:19, Edward Bartolo ha escrit:
> Although this belongs to devuan-dev I am posting this here for general
> discussion.
> 
> I think, the principle should hold indefinitely as anyone working on
> Devuan's projects, is doing it for free in their free time. Since
> there is no payment involved, it makes a lot of sense to keep some
> form of motivator. In this case, such a motivator, would be more say
> in decisions.
> 
> Please, understand this email is NOT intended to push myself to have
> more say: that would be above my head, as I have absolutely NO
> experience besides with the most common equipment found at homes.
> 
> Another point to state is, to repeat that unanimity, is important
> where major changes to Devuan are involved. This point has been
> criticised as the stalling policy of the EU, but needless to say,
> every policy has its downside. It is better to have slow progress
> rather than have schisms occurring as a result of deep disagreement.
> This has happened to Debian notwithstanding of its well-planned
> structure.
> 
> I attribute the changes taking place in GNU/Linux in general,
> especially the introduction of systemd, to business forces placing
> their fingers where they shouldn't. Devuan should guard itself to
> create a structure that impeaches any member that acts in ways that
> would undermine the Devuan ideal in the long run. I think, Debian
> suffered what it suffered because it allowed members/developers with
> questionable backgrounds and design preferences.
> 
> edbarx
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Re: [DNG] Photoshop CS6 on devuan wine?

[Narcis Garcia]

Better and easier helper is:
www.playonlinux.com


El 08/10/17 a les 10:34, taii...@gmx.com ha escrit:
> How can I do this? I have installed the recommended windows addons with
> winetricks to no luck (installer exits with unspecified error) I then
> installed it in a VM and copied it over only to get either a blank
> launch and exit with no error or an "Error 1"
> 
> Thanks
> 
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Re: [DNG] Gnome?

[Narcis Garcia]

Current Mate is pretty different than current Gnome.
It's like somebody asking for Windows GUI and responding with Windows
3.11-like GUI.


El 26/09/17 a les 09:42, taii...@gmx.com ha escrit:
> Why not use the gnome 2 fork MATE?
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Re: [DNG] Gnome?

[Narcis Garcia]

El 20/09/17 a les 12:43, J. Fahrner ha escrit:
> Am 2017-09-20 11:59, schrieb Narcis Garcia:
> 
>> I like to rely on distribution's packages and be able to open a bug when
>> necessary about it. If Devuan's people say Gnome is not supported at
>> all, this means I need some other way to work on this.
> 
> IMHO this would be the best option for you. Why do you insist on using
> Devuan when you want Gnome? What is wrong with Debian in this case?
> 
I prefer the best (for me) of all worlds: No Systemd, but Yes Gnome.
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Re: [DNG] Gnome?

[Narcis Garcia]

Could Devuan project itself open a bug in bugzilla.gnome.org about
issues without Systemd?


El 18/09/17 a les 09:02, Narcis Garcia ha escrit:
> Is there some published procedure to install Gnome in Devuan 8/9 ?
> 
> I need this to migrate desktop users from Debian & Ubuntu.
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Re: [DNG] Gnome?

[Narcis Garcia]

El 20/09/17 a les 11:48, Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI ha escrit:
> On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 09:02:37 +0200
> Narcis Garcia <informat...@actiu.net> wrote:
> 
>> Is there some published procedure to install Gnome in Devuan 8/9 ?
>> I need this to migrate desktop users from Debian & Ubuntu.
> 
> There are in the Devuan repo 557 packages related to Gnome, 303 of which have 
> Gnome in their name.
> 
> So go ahead, install Gnome, and go in peace...
>  

I like to rely on distribution's packages and be able to open a bug when
necessary about it. If Devuan's people say Gnome is not supported at
all, this means I need some other way to work on this.

Anyway, I'll give it a try.
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Re: [DNG] Gnome?

[Narcis Garcia]

El 19/09/17 a les 16:16, Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI ha escrit:
> On Tue, 19 Sep 2017 15:22:14 +0200
> Narcis Garcia <informat...@actiu.net> wrote:
> 
>> I understand perfectly current situation with Gnome and Systemd.
>> But if I cannot offer Gnome 3 to desktop users (or a fork as Mate was
>> for Gnome 2), Devuan is not an option for me in this area.
> 
> What does Gnome offer, that XFCE lacks ?
>  

Today, mainly the well-known design to users I support.
Most of computer users don't like computing; everyday they expect same
usage and behavior of machines.
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Re: [DNG] Gnome?

[Narcis Garcia]

El 19/09/17 a les 15:56, J. Fahrner ha escrit:
> Am 2017-09-19 15:00, schrieb Narcis Garcia:
>> El 18/09/17 a les 19:45, Steve Litt ha escrit:
>>> Why in the world would you need Gnome?
>>
>> 1. Gnome is the desktop environment that better fits my criteria for
>> unexperienced and normal people.
>>
>> 2. I select desktop software for hundreds of users, and 99% of users
>> that already use desktop computers installed by me (hundreds more), use
>> Gnome. I don't want to face another change like Gnome 2->3 was.
>>
>> 3. Why not?
> 
> I'm wondering why people cry when they don't get Gnome and why they try
> to enforce Devuan developers to offer Gnome. Devuans goal is to offer a
> Linux system without systemd. And that's not possible for Gnome, because
> Gnome depends on systemd. If you want Gnome you have to live with
> systemd. It's your choice. If you want a Windows GUI you have to use
> Windows. But don't cry.
> 

My first strategy on Windows to GNU migrations was to use a
WindowsXP-like theme for Gnome.
All users were happy with this, unlike I left Gnome 2 as it was.
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Re: [DNG] Gnome?

[Narcis Garcia]

El 19/09/17 a les 15:30, Rick Moen ha escrit:
> Quoting Narcis Garcia (informat...@actiu.net):
> 
>> I understand perfectly current situation with Gnome and Systemd.
>> But if I cannot offer Gnome 3 to desktop users (or a fork as Mate was
>> for Gnome 2), Devuan is not an option for me in this area.
> 
> Or you could give Xfce a try.  It's rather nice.
> 
> But whatever's your cuppa.
> 

I have no problem with other desktop softwares if them can be
configured/themed to seem Gnome.
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Re: [DNG] Gnome?

[Narcis Garcia]

I understand perfectly current situation with Gnome and Systemd.
But if I cannot offer Gnome 3 to desktop users (or a fork as Mate was
for Gnome 2), Devuan is not an option for me in this area.

Servers are an independent chapter.


El 19/09/17 a les 15:14, Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI ha escrit:
> On Tue, 19 Sep 2017 15:00:22 +0200
> Narcis Garcia <informat...@actiu.net> wrote:
> 
>> 3. Why not?
> 
> Because all recent versions of Gnome are infected with the systemd pox.
>  
> Cheers,
>  
> Ron.
> 
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Re: [DNG] Gnome?

[Narcis Garcia]

El 18/09/17 a les 19:45, Steve Litt ha escrit:
> Why in the world would you need Gnome?

1. Gnome is the desktop environment that better fits my criteria for
unexperienced and normal people.

2. I select desktop software for hundreds of users, and 99% of users
that already use desktop computers installed by me (hundreds more), use
Gnome. I don't want to face another change like Gnome 2->3 was.

3. Why not?
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Re: [DNG] Gnome?

[Narcis Garcia]

I've tried shwsh's procedure and it doesn't work in the first step.
apt loops in a large messages list, all saying:

...
Note, selecting 'python2.7-taurus' for regex '.'
Note, selecting 'r-cran-kernsmooth' for regex '.'
Note, selecting 'slsh' for regex '.'
...

Neither with dpkg:
$ sudo dkg -i elogind_234-2.2_amd64.deb
...
dpkg: error processing archive elogind_234-2.2_amd64.deb (--install):
 trying to overwrite '/lib/udev/rules.d/70-power-switch.rules', which is
also in package udev 215-17+deb8u7
dpkg: error: subprocess paste was killed by signal (Broken pipe)
Errors were encountered while processing:
 elogind_234-2.2_amd64.deb

Scenario was: Devuan 8 fresh install with all defaults, and only removed
default desktop with:
$ sudo tasksel remove desktop xfce-desktop
$ sudo reboot


El 18/09/17 a les 12:28, Svante Signell ha escrit:
> On Mon, 2017-09-18 at 09:02 +0200, Narcis Garcia wrote:
>> Is there some published procedure to install Gnome in Devuan 8/9 ?
>>
>> I need this to migrate desktop users from Debian & Ubuntu.
> 
> On IRC September 6 somebody (shwsh) reported gnome running on Devuan. He
> packaged elogind gnome-settings-deamon. For more info see
> https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=1581
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Re: [DNG] Gnome?

[Narcis Garcia]

I'm trying now to make an installation as similar as possible to Gnome.
XFCE is the best option for a Gnome-like theme and behavior?


El 18/09/17 a les 19:45, Steve Litt ha escrit:
> On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 09:02:37 +0200
> Narcis Garcia <informat...@actiu.net> wrote:
> 
>> Is there some published procedure to install Gnome in Devuan 8/9 ?
> 
> Gnome is so tightly would with systemd that it can't be run on Devuan
> with reasonable effort.
> 
>> I need this to migrate desktop users from Debian & Ubuntu.
> 
> Why in the world would you need Gnome? Copy their home directory, add
> them to /etc/group and /etc/passwd as on the old machine, assign them
> temporary passwords which you give them, and have them change their
> passwords. Set them all up with Xfce, and if they want to migrate to
> LXDE or Openbox or ctwm let them do it themselves.
> 
> PS: Do them a favor and incorporate dmenu using an easy hotkey. They'll
> be so thrilled with the quick and easy user interface that they'll
> never miss Gnome.
>  
> SteveT
> 
> Steve Litt
> September 2017 featured book: Manager's Guide to Technical
> Troubleshooting Brand new, second edition
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/mgr
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Re: [DNG] Talos, Intel, libre purism, ...

[Narcis Garcia]

El 08/09/17 a les 11:02, Arnt Karlsen ha escrit:
> On Thu, 7 Sep 2017 13:13:17 +0100, Rowland wrote in message 
> <20170907131317.02a67...@devstation.samdom.example.com>:
> 
>> On Thu, 7 Sep 2017 13:59:01 +0200
>> Narcis Garcia <informat...@actiu.net> wrote:
>>
>>> This thread has now 86 posts, and I still don't see a solid
>>> contribution to Devuan project.
> 
> ..in the narrower sense of building Devuan, I agree. 
> In the wider sense, I disagree, Devuan happens largely because 
> we believe systemd is some form of backdoor to subvert freedom.
> 
> ..there are many other ways to create those mean backdoors.
> 

Devuan GNU+Linux is a project with a decision already taken: The default
ability to run without Systemd.
A very bad contribution to the project is to flood community with
subjects related to this, while other serious areas of a normal distro
project aren't properly deployed to guarantee a future.

Please complete first Devuan as a project and a distro, and AFTER
introduce new or different features.
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[DNG] Talos, Intel, libre purism, ...

[Narcis Garcia]

This thread has now 86 posts, and I still don't see a solid contribution
to Devuan project.
This makes very heavy to be subscribed in a mailing list for people like
me, that are looking a good alternative to Debian/Systemd, not only in
software but also in community.


El 07/09/17 a les 13:43, Didier Kryn ha escrit:
> Le 07/09/2017 à 10:48, taii...@gmx.com a écrit :
>> On 09/07/2017 04:30 AM, Alessandro Selli wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 6 Sep 2017 at 17:12:27 -0400
>>> zap  wrote:
>>>
 Agreed! Talos is at least *LIBRE!*
>>>No, it ain't:
>>> https://blog.rapid7.com/2013/07/02/a-penetration-testers-guide-to-ipmi/
>>>
>>> "BMCs and the IPMI Protocol
>>>
>>> Baseboard Management Controllers (BMCs) are a type of embedded
>>> computer used to provide out-of-band monitoring for desktops and
>>> servers. These products are sold under many brand names,
>>> including HP
>>> iLO, Dell DRAC, Sun ILOM, Fujitsu iRMC, *IBM IMM*, and Supermicro
>>> IPMI."
>>>
>>>IBM stuff is plagued by embedded controlware, too. 
> 
> 
> Alessandro, I've read that thread with great interest and I think
> you forgot a "detail": BMC software is open on IBM Power, meaning you
> can replace it by your own, or patch the existant if you prefer.
> 
> Wether there is yet another backdoor is only a supposition and it
> applies to everything you can buy, not specifically IBM. At least, if
> there is one, it is known only to the manufacturer and the 3-letter
> agencies, not to the general hacker. And I'm optimistic because of the
> following law: the time of life of a secret decreases when the number of
> persons who share it increases, and in this case there must be a number
> of engineers.
> 
> Didier
> 
> 
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Re: [DNG] Purism Librem and disabling Intel ME: it can be done [ Re: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server ]

[Narcis Garcia]

El 05/09/17 a les 16:05, Edward Bartolo ha escrit:
> Hiding a complete OS integrated on the main processor's silicon die,
> and to add insult to injury, complete with a dedicated processor,
> filesystem and all!

This is the point that makes me doubt about those theories.
I'm shure this type of backdoors must be driven with operating system
work (collaboration between hardware and software).
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Re: [DNG] Fw: Gentoo wiki

[Narcis Garcia]

El 02/09/17 a les 03:30, Steve Litt ha escrit:
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm forwarding this from the Supervision list. Really great information
> about runit, s6, and daemontools-encore. I think this is handy
> information no matter what distro one is using.
> 
> SteveT
> 
> ===
> 
> Begin forwarded message:
> 
> Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2017 19:44:07 +0100
> From: Jonathan de Boyne Pollard
>  To: Supervision
>  Subject: Gentoo wiki
> 
> 
> For those people who had not noticed: Someone (I shall say no more.
> (-:) has been writing on the Gentoo wiki recently.
> 
> * https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/S6_and_s6-rc-based_init_system
> 
> * https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Runit
> 
> * https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/S6
> 
> * https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Daemontools-encore
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Is this an official documentation site of Devuan project?
https://friendsofdevuan.org/doku.php
Some link should appear at:
https://www.devuan.org/os/community

This scope (init software) should be the main focus of Devuan's
documentation. It's difficult for me to believe that documentation is
being deployed in a forum.
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Re: [DNG] Accountability (Was: TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server)

[Narcis Garcia]

...Pan Am aircraft...
Volkswagen soviet union?

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Re: [DNG] TALOS 2 - The Libre Owner Controlled POWER9 Workstation/Server

[Narcis Garcia]

El 31/08/17 a les 15:24, info at smallinnovations dot nl ha escrit:
> On 31-08-17 10:14, Alessandro Selli wrote:
>>
>>Good news indeed!  The second one this week, after this worthy
>> attempt by
>> puri.sm to finally produce a smartphone designed to be 100%
>> evil-software free
>> and GNU/Linux compatible (scheduled for release in 2019, though):
>>
>> https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/
>>
>>
>> Alessandro
> As a owner of a BQ Aquaris E45 Ubuntu version i fully support this kind
> of free smartphone development. But i doubt of a linux smartphone will
> be functional comparable with Android or iOS within 3 to 4 years. They
> should use the efforts of Meego/Maemo development or work together wit
> Jolla. And trying to get support from one or more large smartphone
> makers. Until then when i have to replace my current BQ it will be a
> iPhone as one of the lesser evil.
> 

All Androids run Linux.
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[DNG] journalctl and Unix groups

[Narcis Garcia]

I've discovered that for journalctl only exist user(s) and others: no
group permissions.

Example: exim4 sets read+write permissions to root for logs, and
read-only for group "adm". If you are member of "adm", you can read
EXIM4 logs.
Depending on distribution, journalctl allows you to read recorded logs
depending only on you being root or not: In some distros (eg. Ubuntu)
any user can read any journal, and (eg. Debian) only root can read
journals (nobody else can read anything else).

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Re: [DNG] noatime by default

[Narcis Garcia]

El 28/08/17 a les 12:47, Arnt Gulbrandsen ha escrit:
> If you want to do it it can be done, though. You can intercept the mount
> system call using LD_PRELOAD and about 10 lines of C, or you can write
> an /etc/fstab line for /mnt that specifies noatime and your usual USB
> device (perhaps sdb1, YMMV). If you write the fstab line at least "sudo
> mount /mnt" will mount with noatime, and you can write something udevish
> that runs mount and does it the way you want it.
> 

Perhaps there is some kernel parameter to change default behavior from boot?
I'm not looking a solution for a single installation but for hundreds of
my users.

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Re: [DNG] noatime by default

[Narcis Garcia]

El 28/08/17 a les 11:59, Alessandro Selli ha escrit:
> On Sun, 27 Aug 2017 at 17:18:28 -0500
> d_pridge  wrote:
> 
>> Doesn't this affect the expected lifetime for an SSD?
> 
>   Little.  AFAIK this used to be a more serious concern on the first
> generation of SSDs, because they suffered strongly from write-wear and
> because firmware, drivers and filesystems did not support write-levelling.
> Today this is much less of a concern.  SSD cells can stand many more write
> operations before wearing (not so so called 3D SSD units, however) and unit's
> firmware today apply algorithms to write operations that attempt to spread
> writes as evenly as possible to cells avoiding impinging too many times on
> the same ones.  Which means that, even if you're writing several times on the
> same filesystem's blocks (e.g., the FS's log on a journalled FS), these
> blocks are mapped to cells spread here and there on the SSD that are generally
> different from write operation to another, transparently to the filesystem's
> driver and block allocator.  Plus, SSD-aware filesystems (designed, among
> other things, to reduce the impact of write amplification of cells being
> rewritten) further help prolonging the unit's life, regardless of how it is
> used.
> 

"SSD-aware filesystems" are flesystems mounted with no atime

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Re: [DNG] noatime by default

[Narcis Garcia]

El 28/08/17 a les 10:48, Arnt Gulbrandsen ha escrit:
> Narcis Garcia writes:
>> Does anybody know some way to configure an already installed system to
>> mount points with noatime by default?
> 
> Edit /etc/fstab.
> 
>> I'm specially interested for USB pendrives, that are automatically
>> mounted in a desktop environment.
> 
> USB drives generally use some sort of windowsy file system that doesn't
> support atime at all.
> 
> Arnt
> 

USB drives use filesystem as were formatted.
When they are formatted in ext4, support atime.

I was asking for a method to set noatime by default. Is udev/eudev
triggering program involved for USB cases? And when user clics over a
not mounted device through file manager?

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Re: [DNG] noatime by default

[Narcis Garcia]

El 27/08/17 a les 20:53, John Franklin ha escrit:
> On Sat, 2017-08-26 at 16:14 +0200, Alessandro Selli wrote:
>> On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 at 01:03:10 +0200
>> Adam Borowski  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi!
>>> I'd like to recommend another improvement: let's make the installer
>>> default
>>> to noatime for fstab it creates.
>>
>>
>>  I agree.
> 
> I don't.  Adding noatime by default will break some software that
> relies on atime, in particular mutt and popcon.  Keeping relatime is
> sufficient.
> 
> https://blog.valerieaurora.org/2009/03/27/relatime-recap/
> 
> jf
> 

Does anybody know some way to configure an already installed system to
mount points with noatime by default?
I'm specially interested for USB pendrives, that are automatically
mounted in a desktop environment.

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Re: [DNG] Naming of network interfaces

[Narcis Garcia]

El 27/08/17 a les 11:08, Martin Steigerwald ha escrit:
> Narcis Garcia - 27.08.17, 09:59:
>> El 26/08/17 a les 19:57, Didier Kryn ha escrit:
>>> Le 26/08/2017 à 19:02, Alessandro Selli a écrit :
>>> With my proposed solution, the admin has the choice to refer to nics
>>>
>>> by their interface name, as given by the kernel, which is fine when
>>> there is only one, or by their MAC address, if there are several. If you
>>> use MAC you get the same result as with current Devuan's udev renaming
>>> scheme -without the race - and if you use eth0 then you get the same
>>> result as if you disabled renaming. And you can mix things if you like
>>> in /etc/interfaces, eg use wlan0 for wifi and MAC for the Ethernets; it
>>> isn't a decisipon of the distro; it is up to the admin. Just like for
>>> partitions. Simplicity and choice, that's Unix, isn't it :-)
>>
>> This is exactly what the 'mactoname' service allows.
> 
> A maintainer/developer of ifupdown implemented this also there. Its standard 
> in Debian Sid now, that you can use MAC addresses in /e/n/i to address 
> interfaces.
> 
> There has been a huge and long thread on debian-devel about naming of network 
> interfaces that triggered a maintainer of ifupdown to implement this new 
> feature.
> 
> See manpage interfaces(5) on Debian Sid under PATTERN MATCHING INTERFACES.
> 
> For thread see:
> 
> Debian 9 in a VM with Proxmox 5 system =>
> Naming of network devices
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2017/07/threads.html#00115
> 
> And here is the the mail about the MAC address pattern matching that Guus 
> Sliepen implemented:
> 
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2017/07/msg00265.html
> 
> But as Adam who replied to this mail then is on this list, it may be that he 
> mentioned all of this already… however how can I know in a thread that goes 
> about everything and the universe.
> 
> Thanks,
> 

Thanks for references; then mactoname is really useful for these cases:
From Sarge to Stretch/Ascii (not next Debian versions)
Hurd
FreeBSD
+ Cases without ifupdown.
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Re: [DNG] What does Linus do?

[Narcis Garcia]

El 26/08/17 a les 19:57, Didier Kryn ha escrit:
> Le 26/08/2017 à 19:02, Alessandro Selli a écrit :

> With my proposed solution, the admin has the choice to refer to nics
> by their interface name, as given by the kernel, which is fine when
> there is only one, or by their MAC address, if there are several. If you
> use MAC you get the same result as with current Devuan's udev renaming
> scheme -without the race - and if you use eth0 then you get the same
> result as if you disabled renaming. And you can mix things if you like
> in /etc/interfaces, eg use wlan0 for wifi and MAC for the Ethernets; it
> isn't a decisipon of the distro; it is up to the admin. Just like for
> partitions. Simplicity and choice, that's Unix, isn't it :-)
> 

This is exactly what the 'mactoname' service allows.
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Re: [DNG] Alternative to renaming: mactoname

[Narcis Garcia]

El 25/08/17 a les 13:48, Adam Borowski ha escrit:
> On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 12:50:03PM +0200, Narcis Garcia wrote:
>> mactoname has no relation with naming schema.
>> It allows to use MAC addresses instead of devnames in files like
>> /etc/network/interfaces
> 
> Why would anyone want this over just using a mac= logical interface match
> that's built into ifupdown?  Since recently you can even use it for renames.
> 

Where is documented that mac=.. is supported for /etc/network/interfaces ?
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Re: [DNG] Alternative to renaming: mactoname

[Narcis Garcia]

El 25/08/17 a les 12:17, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp ha escrit:
> Am Freitag, 25. August 2017 schrieb Narcis Garcia:
>> In the meanwhile, hotplug users will survive with this:
> 
> I prefer this in the grub config:
> 
> GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="... net.ifnames=0 biosdevname=0 ..."
> 
> Nik
> 

mactoname has no relation with naming schema.
It allows to use MAC addresses instead of devnames in files like
/etc/network/interfaces

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Re: [DNG] git.devuan.org -- 2FA issues

[Narcis Garcia]

El 25/08/17 a les 11:00, Andrew McGlashan ha escrit:
> Hi,
> 
> Okay, my code wasn't actually using the git.devuan.org server time, it
> just displayed it.
> 
> 2FA is re-enabled for me, but if you use the Google Authenticator app,
> it won't work because you cannot change the time sever to use
> git.devuan.org (which has a different time).
> 
> Kind Regards
> AndrewM
> 
> 
> 
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Do you mean in devuan.org there are services depending on Google?
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[DNG] Alternative to renaming: mactoname

[Narcis Garcia]

In the meanwhile, hotplug users will survive with this:

https://git.actiu.net/libre/mactoname
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Re: [DNG] An alternative to Devuan thread

[Narcis Garcia]

El 25/08/17 a les 01:14, Steve Litt ha escrit:
> On Fri, 25 Aug 2017 00:35:13 +0200
> Svante Signell  wrote:
> 
> 
>> Hi Edward,
>>
>> Can you please quote the relevant parts of the mail you are replying
>> to, especially the name of the person who sent that mail. Please ;)
> 
> Yes! And I wish everybody would do what Svante says. And it's not just
> Edward, by any means.
> 
> To take it a step further, for gosh sakes, write for clarity. Quote
> what's relevant to your reply, including what person said it, and
> delete all quoted material not relevant to your reply. If you're
> interleave posting, please please PLEASE delete all quoted text below
> your final response so readers don't waste time looking for yet another
> of your responses.
> 
> Interleave posting can increase clarity and reduce the need for you to
> be microscopically explicit. Use it! If you simply must print one
> massive reply at the very bottom, please be sure to be explicit about
> what each and every one of your points refers to, and please delete
> all quoted text not related to your reply.
> 
> And for those of you who insist on top-posting, which breaks long
> many-poster sequences of very clear interleave posting, please at least
> have the decency not to use words like "it", "them", "him", but instead
> write out the whole concept, as in "the /etc/runit directory", "the
> services started by runit", or "Peter Johnson", respectively. Who
> wants to parse the entire bottom of an email trying to find out what
> someone meant by "it", "them" or "him"? And please remember, top-posting
> does not excuse you from deleting irrelevant quoted text while leaving
> relevant quoted text in place.
> 
> Top-posting with no quoted text deletion is outstanding for business
> transactions intended to be a contemporaneous log of what happened
> (CYA, in other words). But it's a discussion-muddling obfuscation in a
> multi-person brainstorming session, which is what we're supposed to
> have on technical mailing lists.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> SteveT

Is this a new thread about the top/bottom posting in soviet union by
Volkswagen?
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Re: [DNG] An alternative to renaming [was Re: Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames]

[Narcis Garcia]

El 24/08/17 a les 11:33, Edward Bartolo ha escrit:
> Quote by Karl Hammar: "There are several drawback useing the old
> transformer + rectifier design. Of main consern is the current spikes
> seen on the power grid when the diodes starts to conduct.  Your power
> supplier don't like them and that is why we have PFC to make the unit
> behave more like a resistor to the power grid."
> 
> If PFC stands for Power Factor Correction, using a switching power
> supply doesn't free one from using rectification of the mains to power
> the switching transistors. The rectifier diodes will also have current
> spikes and we are essentially back to square one. With 3 phase power
> rectification the current spikes can be greatly reduced as the
> rectified voltage output from the rectifier without a smoothing
> capacitor never goes below ~85% of peak.
> 
> If voltage rectification was such a problem, all devices/appliances
> that have to use a DC voltage source would be at blame, which is
> clearly not the case. Power Factor Correction enters the equation when
> loads having a substantial inductive component exist. This is the case
> when certain types of motors are used. Three phase motors do not
> produce a significant inductive load if they are well designed. This
> is also true of transformers given their primaries are well designed
> to keep the magnetising currents at a minimum.
> 
> For voltage rectification Power Factor Correction (PFC) is not an
> issue. If this is a new issue that older text books about
> electricity/electronics did not discuss, please direct me to your
> sources of information.
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...Volkswagen...soviet...assassination...mom
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Re: [DNG] An alternative to renaming [was Re: Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames]

[Narcis Garcia]

...Wolkswagen Beetle ...
...Volkswagens of various models
...mom's 1967 1300 Beetle...
...Soviet Politburo pictures "evolve"...
...trump-may-not-survive-his-term-but-the-assassination-complex-will...
...Italian history is quite different from Polish history...

What are you talking about?
It's difficult for non-native english speaking people to feel sense to
this kind of threads in a list supposed to be about Devuan GNU+Linux

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Re: [DNG] noatime by default

[Narcis Garcia]

El 24/08/17 a les 01:03, Adam Borowski ha escrit:
> Hi!
> I'd like to recommend another improvement: let's make the installer default
> to noatime for fstab it creates.
> 
> In the past, atime updates used to ruin performance.  Thanks to work by Ted
> Ts'o and others, that penalty has been greatly reduced (but not eliminated)
> by two options:
> * relatime (on by default): atime is not updated unless atime<=mtime or
>   atime * lazytime (off by default): atime and mtime updates are postponed by up to
>   30 minutes, unless there's memory pressure or the inode has to be written
>   for another reason
> 
> But alas, there are more considerations than just performance:
> * atime is really nasty for any CoW filesystems (btrfs, zfs, lvm snapshots,
>   qcow2 snapshots, deduped thin storage, etc).  For a /usr-y mix of files,
>   it costs around 5% of disk space per snapshot.  relatime offers no help as
>   its threshold (24h) just happens to match the most popular snapshot and
>   cronjob frequency (once per day).  Even worse, it can make _reading_
>   things result in ENOSPC!
> * atime murders media with sharply limited write endurance, such as SD
>   cards.  For this reason, every SoC pre-made image I've seen ships with
>   noatime.
> 
> And what do we get in return?
> * the "vote" field in popcon.  This somewhat benefits the distribution (lets
>   us spot low-use packages installed by default, such as xterm (53.60% inst,
>   6.67% vote) or tcpd (95.20% inst, 9.85% vote)) but gives no gain to
>   individual users.
> * some rare forensic uses
> * new mail notification on login
> 
> The last thing has recentlish (POSIX-2008) gained a solution: mail readers
> can be patched to manually calls futimens(f, {UTIME_NOW, UTIME_OMIT});
> stretch/ascii already sports mutt patched this way -- not sure what other
> mail clients are likely to be used by local users thus worthy of patching.
> Sample patch:
> https://github.com/neomutt/neomutt/commit/816095bfdb72caafd8845e8fb28cbc8c6afc114f
> Because of stretch's freeze, I did not manage to write+push upstream patches
> for any client other than mutt, I guess it's time to resume.
> 
> Obviously, an admin who thinks he actually has an use for atime is free to
> edit fstab.
> 
> So, what would you folks say about defaulting to noatime?
> 
> 
> Meow!
> 

Since 10 years ago I'm setting "noatime" to all mounts in thousands of
GNU/Linux installations.
Yes, please set "noatime" as default for any volume.
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Re: [DNG] An alternative to renaming: UUID=MAC

[Narcis Garcia]

Didier identified the *exact* same problem as was found for block
devices (sda, sdb, etc.) and, if UUID/MAC solution worked for that, it
must help for this.

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Re: [DNG] Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames logic reversing proposal

[Narcis Garcia]

El 22/08/17 a les 02:48, Alessandro Selli ha escrit:
> On Mon, 21 Aug 2017 at 10:32:43 +0200
> Narcis Garcia <informat...@actiu.net> wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
>> This logic does not guarantee 100% predictable naming (think about
>> removable NICs), but gives enough confort to a sysadmin deals any with
>> situation.
> 
>   If it's not 100% predictable and configurable by the sysadmin then it does
> *not* provide "enough confort", as in an Enterprise environment this means
> 100% certainty that the system comes up with each networking card having
> a definite, assigned name and that everything that depends on networking is
> always going to work fine short of a hardware failure.
>   Randomness is very unwelcome in critical systems and in data centers, where
> even a tiny percentage of random malfunction has to be multiplied by the
> numer of racks and devices that are present to be deemed acceptable.
> 
> 
> Alessandro

Please, differenciate between predictable name and definitive name.
persistent-net.rules allows 100% definitive names.
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Re: [DNG] An alternative to renaming [was Re: Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames]

[Narcis Garcia]

El 21/08/17 a les 15:52, Didier Kryn ha escrit:
> Note that a similar problem with disks has been solved elegantly by
> referencing disks by their uuid or label in /etc/fstab. Maybe
> /etc/network/interface could specify the MAC address as a hook. This
> would only suppose that the hotplugger creates a symlink to the
> interface in some /dev/net/by-address/ subdirectory. With this solution,
> it is up to the admin to decide if  s?he wants a simple configuration
> based on interface name (eth0) or a secured one alla
> "Address=a0:d3:c1:9d:a5:86".
> 

+1

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Re: [DNG] Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames logic reversing proposal

[Narcis Garcia]

El 20/08/17 a les 21:53, fsmithred ha escrit:
> On 08/20/2017 10:27 AM, Adam Borowski wrote:
>>
>> * systemd-udev's promise of providing _stable_ names didn't deliver.  They
>>   still change on major kernel upgrades, and sometimes on every boot. 
>>   And their chosen naming is utterly insane (wlxf81a671bcfae, WTF?).
>>   Only systemd proponents still say it's a good idea.
>>
> 
> They change? I thought they were based on which hardware slot they were
> in. I've been ranting about how you have to open the box and look inside
> to predict the names. Have I been wrong all this time?
> 
> Yeah, the name on a usb dongle is insane. I didn't stick with it long
> enough to figure out if that number comes from somewhere or is random.
> 
> fsmithred
> 
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> 

I suggest:
ethX/wlanX naming BUT:
Based on last MAC byte;
- When MAC ends with :00 -> eth0
- When MAC ends with :01 -> eth1
- When MAC ends with :0A -> eth10
- When MAC ends with :10 -> eth16
* When 2 NICs have same MAC byte (01) -> eth1 & eth1a & ... eth1b
* Anyway, maintain full support of
/etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules

This logic does not guarantee 100% predictable naming (think about
removable NICs), but gives enough confort to a sysadmin deals any with
situation.
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Re: [DNG] Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames logic reversing proposal

[Narcis Garcia]

El 20/08/17 a les 16:48, Lars Noodén ha escrit:
> On 08/20/2017 04:38 PM, Daniel Reurich wrote:
>> We discussed a few weeks back in a dev meeting whether or not to revert
>> to jessie like naming scheme for ethernet interfaces by default.
> 
> My only interest would be consistency: that the same physical device
> always gets the same name, even if some of them come and go.  Other than
> that, I'm rather indifferent as to what they are called.
> 
> On routers and servers that I have run with Debian or Devuan, the setup
> rarely changes.  So there I feel it is not as much of an issue, as long
> as the names end up consistent across reboots, updates, and eventual
> upgrades.
> 
> However, on notebooks that I have run with Debian or Devuan, a single
> machine can rotate through three or more Ethernet devices each with
> different characteristics, any or all of which can sometimes be
> connected concurrently.
> 
> /Lars
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> 

Note the importance of matintaining consistency between initrd and GNU
environment.
In Debian 9: What in initrd is called "ens3" in user environment is seen
as "ens3" (OK)
In Devuan 1: What in initrd is called "eth0" in user environment is seen
as "eth0" (OK)

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[DNG] Fwd: [Bug-gnuzilla] Status of IceCat packages and variants

[Narcis Garcia]

 Missatge reenviat 
Assumpte:   [Bug-gnuzilla] Status of IceCat packages and variants
Data:   Fri, 18 Aug 2017 15:56:07 +0200
De: David Hedlund 
A:  bug-gnuzi...@gnu.org



##

icecat package status for free GNU/Linux distros
(https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.en.html)

[GNU/Linux distros for embedded devices are excluded.]


BLAG (based on Fedora): Not packaged (the distro is 6 years old). Once
BLAG will update it will have icecat available, see "Fedora" below.

Dragora: Not packaged. The distro is 5 years old.

Dynebolic: Not packaged. The distro is 5 years old.

gNewSense: Not packaged.

GuixSD: Packaged - https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/packages/i.html

Musix (based on Knoppix): Not packaged AFAIK

Parabola (based on Arch GNU/Linux: Packaged:
https://www.parabola.nu/packages/?sort==icecat==

Trisquel (based on Ubuntu): Part of Trisquel 8, found as package in
Trisquel 7. The maintainer of Trisquel is also maintainer of IceCat.

Ututo XS: Not packages. The distro is 5 years old.


--


icecat package status for non-free GNU/Linux distros (used to make free
GNU/Linux distros)


###

* Arch GNU/Linux: Not packaged -
https://www.archlinux.org/packages/?sort==icecat==

* Debian

To vote on IceCat for Debian email: 637...@bugs.debian.org

Visit this link to follow 637...@bugs.debian.org posted emails:
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=637348

https://packages.qa.debian.org/i/icecat.html refer to a page that
doesn't exist: https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/icecat

* Fedora: Packaged - https://apps.fedoraproject.org/packages/icecat

* Ubuntu: Not packaged. Not found in
https://packages.ubuntu.com/trusty/allpackages or
https://packages.ubuntu.com/xenial/allpackages


##

Free Non-GNU Distributions
(https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-non-gnu-distros.html)


IceCat for Replicant


[Note: Not even Firefox itself can run on Replicant]


Planned by the IceCat developer(s).


Background to the intervention: IceCatMobile cannot run on Replicant:
"Firefox 52 has an opengl 2.0 dependency which replicant can't do
because it requires nonfree software (at least on the galaxy s3, which
is the best phone choice for replicant afaik)." - Ian Kelling


##

IceCat for GNU/Linux, binary release

Both 32-bits and 64-bits released on https://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/icecat/


##

icecat package status for distros ready to be evaluated
(https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Incoming_distros)


* ConnochaetOS (based on Slackware): Yes
* FreeSlack (based on Slackware): Yes
* LibertyBSD (base on OpenBSD): Yes

icecat package status for non-free operating systems (used to make free
operating systems ready for evaluation)


* DeLi GNU/Linux (dead)
* OpenBSD: Yes
* Slackware: Yes


##

IceCat for Android


IceCatMobile has been developed.


Background to the intervention: Firefox for Android



##

IceCat for Windows


Discontinued.


Unofficial builds can be found here: https://rpm.jenslody.de/icecat-win/
(link added to https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/IceCat#tab=Details)


Background to the intervention: Firefox ESR for Windows


##

IceCat for macOS


Not developed.


Background to the intervention: Firefox for macOS -
https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/releases/52.3.0esr/


##

IceCat for iOS


Not developed.

"Unless drastic changes have been made in iOS 9, you aren't able to use
a different rendering engine when you build a browser for iOS. So
Firefox for iOS is really just a reskinned Safari."


Background to the intervention: Firefox for iOS


##

IceCat Portable


Not developed.


Background to the intervention:

  * http://portableapps.com/apps/internet/firefox_portable
  * http://portableapps.com/apps/internet/firefox-portable-esr


##

IceCat Developer Edition


Not developed.


Background to the intervention: "Firefox Developer Edition brings your
core dev tools together with some powerful new ones that will extend
your ability to work across multiple platforms from one place. It’s
everything you’re used to, only better. And only from Firefox." - From
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/developer/


#

IceCat virtual image

Not developed.

Background to the intervention: From
http://www.pcworld.com/article/227838/free_browser_in_a_box_runs_firefox4_with_ultra_security.html

A new solution launched this week by German Sirrix AG
, however, uses Firefox 4
,
Linux and virtualization to create 

Re: [DNG] Which desktops are available in Devuan?

[Narcis Garcia]

In www.devuan.org I don't find a link to write wiki pages with
procedures (eg. wiki.devuan.org/Enlightment )


El 17/08/17 a les 10:27, Eric ha escrit:
> On 08/14/2017 11:45 PM, Erik Christiansen wrote:
>> Finding Devuan, and subscribing last night, I'm keen to replace my
>> Debian 9.0 "Systemdix"¹, even at the cost of reverting to older
>> packages. But I don't much like Gnome either, and have become quite used
>> to LXDE - especially the boot speed of the leaner environment.
>>
>> So the question is as put in the subject line. The answer might also fit
>> in the category "what does Devuan have to offer", perhaps.
>>
>> I viewed the 2016 video last night, and applaud the commitment to
>> OS ecosystem diversity. There is nothing more fundamental to *nix than
>> that, equalled only by application diversity.
>>
>> I'll download the CD, and see what I find. (Or should it be the DVD for
>> desktop alternatives?)
>>
>> Erik
>>
> 
> I was able to install enlightenment desktop from
> 
> https://www.enlightenment.org
> 
> I followed along with the directions on their download page and also
> from the site:
> 
> https://www.tecmint.com/install-enlightenment-on-devuan-linux/
> 
> 
> It works with the latest stable builds.  If you need help or have any
> questions just ask.
> 
> Have fun,
> 
> Eric
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Re: [DNG] Devuan presentation at Chemnitzer Linux-Tage (Germany) 2018?

[Narcis Garcia]

It's better to defend Init systems than focusing on the Systemd
software. Dedicated hours against Systemd are lost hours for Init systems.
How to defend init systems (ans supervisors)? Analyzing, documenting,
comparing and explaining them to the detail.


El 16/08/17 a les 14:39, Simon Hobson ha escrit:
> Edward Bartolo  wrote:
> 
>> Keep in mind that someone from the audience may tell you that
>> fine control requires the knowledge of complicated shell scripting and
>> the knowledge of how diverse programs are configured in their
>> configuration files.
> 
> Just like Windows, with PowerShell - and a confusingly similar but different 
> PowerShell for Exchange - and all those ".ini' files. I try and stay out of 
> "doing Windows" while working in a mostly Windows-centric outfit, but one 
> thing I have learned is that even some fairly basic tasks need "complicated 
> shell scripting" (aka, magic PowerShell incantations) to do - this is, of 
> course, invisible to those who's skill level has never exceeded the basics 
> that can be done with the "click things randomly till it seems to work" GUI. 
> I've also observed that it's quite easy to screw things up (a little 
> knowledge ...) but impossible to track down later as these incantations make 
> invisible changes - very unlike making changes that are easy to see in a 
> script/config file.
> 
> And the ultimate config file in the Windows world is of course ... the 
> Registry. That small, easy to navigate, and not at all easy to damage, config 
> database :D
> 
> 
> Lars Noodén  wrote:
> 
>> Even within Debian, it ended on being one single person who made the
>> call to deploy systemd.  Look at the ranking for the official tallies:
>>
>> https://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte/2014/02/msg00402.html
>>
>> He made the decision and it cascaded down to well over 300 derivatives:
> 
> 
> Also, have a link ready to the analysis someone did showing that in fact 
> "going SystemD" was a minority vote once you look at the options carefully 
> and exclude the ones that didn't really vote for SystemD but were counted as 
> such. Sorry, don't have the link, but I know someone posted it here not all 
> that long ago.
> 
> 
> 
> Another "weapon" to have in reserve would be a list of serious bugs in stuff 
> LP decided "had to be remade, well because". It's a tricky one to do, because 
> you need to show that those running the project have a track record for 
> really bad code - but without it being possible for someone to turn it around 
> and label it as an attack on those people themselves. Eg, "you have to be 
> careful with SystemD because LP has a history of writing crap code" can 
> easily (but falsely) be rebutted as "so you are lowering your argument to 
> personal attacks then ?".
> 
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Re: [DNG] Devuan presentation at Chemnitzer Linux-Tage (Germany) 2018?

[Narcis Garcia]

El 16/08/17 a les 09:17, Erik Christiansen ha escrit:
> On 15.08.17 21:49, Hendrik Boom wrote:
>> On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 12:42:50AM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
>>>
>>> ..I agree "hate" is a little too loaded and a little too warranted. ;o)
>>
>> Exactly my point.  But it's better to present the emotionally unloaded 
>> facts and let the listeners of readers come up with their own feelings 
>> about the matter.  People resent being force-fed emotions.
> 
> Even "loathe" is too strong to be attractive to an audience which is not
> already converted. Understanding that hatred arises out of fear (nothing
> less can evoke such a strong response, in reality), leads to a less
> emotive presentation. Better to tickle the audience's curiosity, than to
> bludgeon their intelligence with heavy propaganda.
> 
> They will be more attracted by outgoing engagement with their nascent
> curiosity, than by a presenter egocentrically obsessing about his own
> dark emotions.
> 
> Creeping dictatorial constraint vs freedom of choice ; Sterile monoculture
> vs vital diversity, agile Linux vs monolithic M$-style Systemdix, ... let the
> ego go off on a coffee break, and engage with the facts, as Hendrik so
> wisely advises, but gently emphasise the dichotomy with evocative
> adjectives, perhaps?
> 
> Erik

The best strategy is to go as a contributor for Chemnitzer Linux-Tage.
The best propaganda is that exposed contents contribute people to make
their own decisions and to more people works on (p.e.) init softwares.
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Re: [DNG] Devuan presentation at Chemnitzer Linux-Tage (Germany) 2018?

[Narcis Garcia]

El 16/08/17 a les 03:49, Hendrik Boom ha escrit:
> On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 12:42:50AM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
>> On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 21:27:13 -0400, Hendrik wrote in message 
>> <20170815012713.ga7...@topoi.pooq.com>:
>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 14, 2017 at 03:45:08PM +0200, Evilham wrote:
>>>

 I'd recommend taking a look at this:
 https://www.slideshare.net/opennebula/opennebulaconf2015-112-the-status-of-devuan-project-alberto-zuin
>>>
>>> The slide "Why I Hate systemd" is likely to derail discussion because
>>> of the loaded word "hate".  Better to discuss technical merits and
>>> demerits without raising emotions.
>>
>> ..I lean towards disagreeing, I rejected systemd on its creepy banana
>> republic politics and its usage to defend the mission creep.
>>
>> ..I agree "hate" is a little too loaded and a little too warranted. ;o)
> 
> Exactly my point.  But it's better to present the emotionally unloaded 
> facts and let the listeners of readers come up with their own feelings 
> about the matter.  People resent being force-fed emotions.
> 

+1
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Re: [DNG] OT: most processors are insecure (was Re: Nvidia Drivers)

[Narcis Garcia]

El 15/08/17 a les 21:33, Simon Hobson ha escrit:
> Narcis Garcia <informat...@actiu.net> wrote:
> 
>> As Far As I Know, CPU makes what software asks to do.
>> If software doesn't call some CPU functions, those functions will not work.
> 
> Well, maybe, but these days you can't take that on trust. Your OS no longer 
> runs native on the processor - there's EFI as a shim between your code and 
> the processor, hence no guarantees that *ONLY* your code is running. As a 
> side effect, the EFI can permit or deny access to processor functions as well 
> - eg by disabling the virtualisation support features for "entry level" 
> machines.
> So these days, you can't assume that there isn't any form of backdoor - with 
> hidden code in the EFI, using hidden functions in the CPU, and making 
> backdoor use of the onboard NIC to call out to someone. OK, that's perhaps 
> into "tinfoil hat" territory - but the point is that we can no longer 
> completely trust the hardware we supposedly buy (sometimes feels like rental 
> !)
> 

Isn't EFI a software installed by person who formats disk?
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Re: [DNG] OT: most processors are insecure (was Re: Nvidia Drivers)

[Narcis Garcia]

El 15/08/17 a les 17:04, Hendrik Boom ha escrit:
> On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 04:29:50PM +0200, Alessandro Selli wrote:
>> On 15/08/2017 at 05:13, taii...@gmx.com wrote:
>>> FYI Many big companies get intel to include classified instruction
>>> sets to give them some kind of competitive edge.
>>>
>>> I can't find the link but it was in a bloomberg article about xeon CPU's. 
>>
>>   Maybe it's this piece:
>>
>> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-09/how-intel-makes-a-chip
> 
> It lets me read the first paragraph.  Then it spnds minutes changing the 
> layout and adding new articles to the page, rearranging the ads, placing 
> the "Inside Intel's Chip Factory" video in different places on the page, 
> and moving it multiple times, and finally tells me the rest of the 
> article is available to subscribers only.
> 
> After that kind of onscreen runaround, I wouldn't subscribe even if I 
> originally had wanteed to.
> 
>> Customer B has no idea that feature is there.”
> 
> What implications does this have for security?  Allow me to shudder.
> 
> -- hendrik
As Far As I Know, CPU makes what software asks to do.
If software doesn't call some CPU functions, those functions will not work.
It's like a 1990 software compiled for i386, running now on x86-64 CPU:
The software will not use MMX registers, RIP, SSE instructions, etc.
because them are unknown for the software and developer in 1990.
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Re: [DNG] Devuan presentation at Chemnitzer Linux-Tage (Germany) 2018?

[Narcis Garcia]

I suggest to put effort on explaining what are and how are init systems
with stages, supervision, freedom, etc.


El 14/08/17 a les 11:49, Michael Siegel ha escrit:
> Am 12.08.2017 um 22:16 schrieb Evilham:
> 
>>> * Giving a talk of about 30 to 45 minutes and answering questions
>>> from the audience for another 30 or 15 minutes respectively
>>>
>>> * Having a booth in the exhibition area of the building where
>>> people can come by, inform themselves, ask questions, obtain
>>> installation media and such
>>>
>>> I think it should be possible to have both if available manpower
>>> allows for that.
>>
>> Maybe both is not quite necessary, you know how that goes, people
>> come to you afterwards if they are interested. OTOH: if enough people
>> end up volunteering, sure why not.
> 
> I think a talk should be enough for now.
> 
>> Let's see how much interest this gathers and what can be done from
>> that, did you have any particular topic in mind?
> 
> As for the topic of the talk, I was thinking of a general introduction
> to Devuan, i.e. something like:
> 
> * What is Devuan?
> * Why and how did it come about?
> * How does the process of creating releases for this distribution work?
> * What does the system have to offer?
> * Where can you get Devuan to try it out/install it?
> * Future plans
> * Where does the project need help?/How to contribute?
> 
> 
> --
> msi
> 
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Re: [DNG] Technical overview of init systems

[Narcis Garcia]

El 11/08/17 a les 07:43, Didier Kryn ha escrit:
> Le 10/08/2017 à 16:22, Jamey Fletcher a écrit :
>>> Le 09/08/2017 à 22:46, Joel Roth a écrit :
>>>   Despite what the author claims, this series of pages isn't about
>>> init. It is mostly about supervision and a little about containers. It
>>> assumes both are usefull, with no argumentation to motivate supervision.
>>> Confusion about init, supervision, and containers typically suggests
>>> that the author has been contaminated by systemd propaganda.
>>>   Also I don't like the style of this series of explanations; there
>>> is little content within a lot of decoration and structure. Clearly the
>>> author has tried all these supervisors but his explanations could be
>>> more detailed.
>> And the answer is...
>>
>> Take what he's written, add in your thoughts, more clearly specify the
>> differences between inits, supervisors, hypervisors, and containers, and
>> write up your own explanation.
>>
>> One thing I might suggest, since you think his explanations could be more
>> detailed, is do a short explanation for each section, kind of an
>> executive
>> summary, and then add in a section closed up initially for more detail
>> for
>> those who need it.
>>
> I thing you're taking me wrong. I don't claim I know the matter
> better that the author. He studied all these supervisors in some detail;
> I didn't. I just say he failed to explain things in an educative way -
> and it seems to me doesn't consider it worth.
> 

Something has to be done (written)

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Re: [DNG] Just out of curiosity, I wondered,

[Narcis Garcia]

Someone asked for an easy question, and I tried to reply with an
effective answer (without perfection).
I hope "zap/calmstorm" has already launched any GNU/Linux .iso with
that, because hasn't asked more details.


El 10/08/17 a les 08:42, Simon Hobson ha escrit:
> Adam Borowski  wrote:
> 
>> rtl8139 is a 100Mbit card, you really don't want your virtual network speed
>> hobbled by emulating such gear.
> 
> It doesn't work like that. The nominal speed of the card is merely that of 
> the real card being emulated - in the emulated version, there's no serial 
> pipe to get the bits through (just in-memory copies/moves) and the actual 
> throughput will be whatever the chain of bits can push through it. That's 
> certainly the case with Xen which (AIUI) uses Qemu for the I/O stuff.
> 
> 
> Having said that, people bitten by "cr*p hardware or drivers" tend to have 
> long memories - Realtek is a make I prefer to avoid. Now, Intel e1000 is a 
> different matter.
> Yeah, I know - the newer stuff is OK, and it's only emulated not real 
> hardware, but memories of pain are memories of pain.
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Re: [DNG] Technical overview of init systems

[Narcis Garcia]

El 09/08/17 a les 09:13, Edward Bartolo ha escrit:
> Using this 'resource' will do a disservice to Devuan. Anyone serious
> enough to read it will get the wrong impression that Devuan is some
> 'amateur' distribution not worthy of wasting professional hours on it.
> Scientific and technical text must at all costs avoid opinionated
> writing but this resource does the opposite. As said earlier, there is
> no objective comparism between the different inits.
> 

If reaching perfection is a requirement, important things will not be
reached.
Imagine Devuan 1.0 without still being released because of Gnome lack.
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Re: [DNG] Just out of curiosity, I wondered,

[Narcis Garcia]

El 08/08/17 a les 23:28, zap ha escrit:
> how do you enable internet in a virtual machine with qemu?
> 
> I wanted to try to see how effectively certain distros such as gnuinos
> and vuu-do work through qemu with upgrading actually working...
> 
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I recommend you:
$ qemu-system-x86_64 -cpu host -enable-kvm -m 1024 -net
nic,model=rtl8139,vlan=0 -net user,vlan=0 -cdrom
devuan_jessie_1.0.0_amd64_desktop-live.iso

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Re: [DNG] Technical overview of init systems

[Narcis Garcia]

Very good comments to be ported to Devuan's documentation.

El 07/08/17 a les 23:41, Joel Roth ha escrit:
> Hi,
> 
> I just came across this seven-part series of articles on
> supervisors and init systems:
> 
> https://blog.afoolishmanifesto.com/tags/supervisors/
> 
> (...)
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Re: [DNG] Excessive bounces

[Narcis Garcia]

1. SPF is a friendlier solution and enough for this.
3. GPG signatures is more standard and friendlier solution for this.

This kind of tricky solutions (as DKIM) only make people to move to
other easier but non-neutral technologies, hosted services such as
WhatsApp or web-based.



El 03/08/17 a les 00:44, Daniel Abrecht ha escrit:
> I'm sorry, I'm using DMARC, and I didn't get the DMARC report about the
> bounced mails, probably because I forgot a DMARC DNS entry for the
> report receiving mail address. I have changed my DMARC policy from
> reject to quarantine for now.
> 
> That said, I won't remove the DMARC record completely, and I plan to
> switch my DMARC policy back to reject after this issue has been
> resolved. A lot of people claim that DMARC won't work with mailing
> lists, but this isn't correct, it's just that most mailing lists aren't
> configured in a way that makes DMARC usable, (and no, changing the from
> address isn't the correct solution.)
> 
> I use DMARC and believe it to be necessary because it allows me to:
>  1) Make sure nobody can use my E-Mail address to impersonate me or send
> spam
>  2) I will be notified if anyone attempts to do so
>  3) The recipient can check if the message content was changed
> 
> That said, the correct way to deal with DKIM, SPF and DMARC protected
> mails is to:
>  1) Provide an SPF record. This mailing list doesn't seam to have one
>  2) Don't change anything from the message below the DKIM headers, add
> the other headers before the DKIM signature instead. This will also
> solve the problem that some mail clients like the android mail client
> don't display text-only mails correctly.
> 
> In think the email body, subject and from header shouldn't be altered
> anyway. Of course, changing the from header and removing the DKIM header
> would avoid the problem as well, but I'm against that solution since it
> obscures who wrote the mail.
> 
> I haven't done much with mailman yet, so I don't know how it needs to be
> configured or if it can even be configured that way. I'll take a look at
> mailman in a few weeks.
> 
> I've attached two versions of an email I've sent to the list earlier.
> The first one contains the message as I received it again from the list.
> The second one is edited in such a way that the added headers and the
> original message body are preserved and the DKIM check succeeds, only
> the added mailing list signature was removed.
> 
> Daniel Abrecht
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [DNG] Yes you have standing to sue GRSecurity.

[Narcis Garcia]

El 29/07/17 a les 16:12, Antony Stone ha escrit:
> On Saturday 29 July 2017 at 13:55:54, ni...@redchan.it wrote:
> 
>> It has come to my attention that some entities are claiming that you,
>> dear Linux Hackers, (1)need to go through some foundation or get some
>> permission from upon high in-order to sue the progenitors of GRSecurity
> 
> Example?
> 
> 
> Antony.
> 

Example already mentioned:
"you are working for a company and as your job duties you are
programming the linux kernel, there is a good chance that you are a work
for hire and thus the company owns said copyrights"
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Re: [DNG] KVM + QEMU on Devuan 1.0

[Narcis Garcia]

El 29/07/17 a les 19:08, Svante Signell ha escrit:
> On Fri, 2017-07-28 at 12:06 +0200, alberto.se...@tin.it wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>>   everyone has tried installing and using kvm + qmeu on Devuan 1.0 ?
> 
> Yes, several instances. No problem :)
> 
> Download:
> wget https://files.devuan.org/devuan_jessie/installer-iso/devuan_jessie
> _1.0.0_amd64_NETINST.iso
> 
> Create:
> qemu-img create devuan_jessie_amd64.img 32G
> 
> Install:
> qemu-system-x86_64 -cdrom devuan_jessie_1.0.0_amd64_NETINST.iso -hda
> devuan_jessie_amd64.img -boot d -net nic -net user -m 4096 -localtime &
> 
> NOTE: add ipv4 to -net, otherwise you'll get the ipv6 address fec0::3
> 
> Run:
> qemu-system-x86_64 -enable-kvm -hda devuan_jessie_amd64.img -boot c
> -net nic -net user,ipv4,hostfwd=tcp::5556-:22 -m 1024 -localtime &
> 
> Access:
> ssh -p 5556 localhost
> ssh -p 5556  from outside your host.
> 
> You can also use -vnc :0 or 127.0.0.1:0 to access the console:
> gvncviewer localhost:0
> gvncviewer :0 from outside your host. Be
> careful here!

I suppose you mean Devuan hosting Qemu machines (?)
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Re: [DNG] OpenVZ 6 ready with Devuan 1

[Narcis Garcia]

El 27/07/17 a les 09:51, Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult ha escrit:
> On 27.07.2017 06:13, Narcis Garcia wrote:
> 
>> vzquota does in OpenVZ does what LXC doesn't.
> 
> Sure ? Proxmox somehow manages to do it (via lxc). Maybe look at
> their code to find out how its done.
> 

* Proxmox VE distribution is based on Systemd (since 2015)

* No Devuan templates to create Devuan containers.

* No "dir" storage for containers; the most thin seems to be LVM
volumes; then the space transparency comes from a separated
partition~volume and not from per-directory quota.
--> Very similar situation to OpenVZ 7

* Host system is 64bits only.
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Re: [DNG] OpenVZ 6 ready with Devuan 1

[Narcis Garcia]

El 27/07/17 a les 04:03, Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult ha escrit:
> On 26.07.2017 21:15, Adam Borowski wrote:
> 
>> The future is lxc, which has some new tricks, but offers nowhere close to
>> the level of isolation openvz and vserver had.  Unprivileged containers
>> aren't bad, but still quite lacking.
> 
> Whats missing in lxc?

vzquota does in OpenVZ does what LXC doesn't.
I've tried to apply btrfs per-directory (subvolume) quotas for "dir"
containers, but them are an invisible limitation for guest.

LXC is stable, but incomplete in this area. This is the reason to
qualify OpenVZ as more mature solution.
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Re: [DNG] OpenVZ 6 ready with Devuan 1

[Narcis Garcia]

El 26/07/17 a les 23:15, Adam Borowski ha escrit:
> On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 09:02:14PM +0200, Narcis Garcia wrote:
>> Hello, documentation and containers are written and tested to Devuan 1.0
>> works as host and as guest:
>>
>> https://openvz.org/Installation_on_Debian_8
>> Container templates:
>> https://openvz.org/Download/template/precreated
>>
>> OpenVZ 6 remains as one of the most mature and stable solutions for
>> operating-system-level virtualization.
> 
> I for one had better experiences with vserver than with openvz.
> 
> Sadly both are abandoned; vserver at kernel 3.18, openvz at 3.10.  This
> actually does make a difference:
> * stretch/ascii require kernel 3.2 (assuming no systemd, otherwise 3.13)
> * buster/beowulf are likely to be bumped to 3.16
> 
> The future is lxc, which has some new tricks, but offers nowhere close to
> the level of isolation openvz and vserver had.  Unprivileged containers
> aren't bad, but still quite lacking.
> 
> 
> Meow!
> 
Unlike VServer, OpenVZ 6 stable kernels are still being released (deb
packages too):
https://openvz.org/Download/kernel/rhel6/042stab123.9

Here you have the guide for stretch/ascii:
https://openvz.org/Installation_on_Debian_9
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[DNG] OpenVZ 6 ready with Devuan 1

[Narcis Garcia]

Hello, documentation and containers are written and tested to Devuan 1.0
works as host and as guest:

https://openvz.org/Installation_on_Debian_8
Container templates:
https://openvz.org/Download/template/precreated

OpenVZ 6 remains as one of the most mature and stable solutions for
operating-system-level virtualization.

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