Re: [DNG] browsers

[Olaf Meeuwissen via Dng]

Hi,

Hendrik Boom  writes:

> On Thu, Mar 24, 2022 at 06:43:09PM -0500, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote:
>> Greetings
>>
>> Firefox is quite ticking me off.
>> It has this penchant for NOT remembering the previous session even
>> when the click box has been 'enabled'.
>
> Firefox aways remebers my last session.
> I'm using firefox-est in chimaera.

Same experience as Hendrik with firefox-esr on beowulf and daedalus.

>> I am quite uncomfortable with ms googly's desire to know everything
>> about me but maybe I would use chromium IF I can stop the trackers. In
>> FF I use ublockorigin and privacy badger.

You can use webext-privacy-badger with chromium.  There's also a
webext-ublock-origin-chromium package.

# I checked on daedalus only but expect this to be available for
# chimaera as well.  They are available for Debian's bullseye.

>> Someone who is using chromium - - - - is it possible to harden
>> chromium?

Check out the various webext-* packages.
There's also ungoogled-chromium

  https://github.com/Eloston/ungoogled-chromium

>> Please - - - I'm quite frustrated with Firefox.
>>
>> (I've also got Vivaldi, Opera and Falkon available.
>> Find that all the other browsers except firefox-esr expect one to
>> update almost daily - - - sorry I find that that kind of behavior is
>> usually a waste of my time!)

Hope this helps,
--
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Re: [DNG] browsers

[Hendrik Boom]

On Thu, Mar 24, 2022 at 06:43:09PM -0500, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote:
> Greetings
> 
> Firefox is quite ticking me off.
> It has this penchant for NOT remembering the previous session even
> when the click box has been 'enabled'.

Firefox aways remebers my last session.
I'm using firefox-est in chimaera.

-- hendrik

> 
> I am quite uncomfortable with ms googly's desire to know everything
> about me but maybe I would use chromium IF I can stop the trackers. In
> FF I use ublockorigin and privacy badger.
> 
> Someone who is using chromium - - - - is it possible to harden chromium?
> 
> Please - - - I'm quite frustrated with Firefox.
> 
> (I've also got Vivaldi, Opera and Falkon available.
> Find that all the other browsers except firefox-esr expect one to
> update almost daily - - - sorry I find that that kind of behavior is
> usually a waste of my time!)
> 
> TIA
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Re: [DNG] browsers

[Syeed Ali]

On Thu, 24 Mar 2022 18:43:09 -0500
o1bigtenor via Dng  wrote:

> Someone who is using chromium - - - - is it possible to harden
> chromium?

The Brave browser specifically targets de-Googling and removing
shenanigans.

https://brave.com/
https://brave.com/linux/

It also has native ad blocking that's reasonable and can be
supplemented by an addon to be more aggressive, as well as BitTorrent,
and TOR functionality.

It's also available for Android, and I use it's sync feature so I can
share my settings, bookmarks, and open tabs across a few devices.

You can also make a tidge of money from it if you'd like to explore
it's "Basic Attention Token" concept.
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Re: [DNG] browsers

[Adrian Zaugg]

Have you tried to start off with a new FF profile? Just for a test, open FF 
from console with:

firefox-esr --profile-manager

...then create a new profile and try: It will restore your open windows when 
chosen to do so with the new profile.

Regards, Adrian.


In der Nachricht vom Friday, 25 March 2022 00:43:09 CET schrieb o1bigtenor via 
Dng:
> Greetings
> 
> Firefox is quite ticking me off.
> It has this penchant for NOT remembering the previous session even
> when the click box has been 'enabled'.
> 
> I am quite uncomfortable with ms googly's desire to know everything
> about me but maybe I would use chromium IF I can stop the trackers. In
> FF I use ublockorigin and privacy badger.
> 
> Someone who is using chromium - - - - is it possible to harden chromium?
> 
> Please - - - I'm quite frustrated with Firefox.
> 
> (I've also got Vivaldi, Opera and Falkon available.
> Find that all the other browsers except firefox-esr expect one to
> update almost daily - - - sorry I find that that kind of behavior is
> usually a waste of my time!)
> 
> TIA
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Re: [DNG] Browsers

[KatolaZ]

On Thu, Mar 02, 2017 at 11:46:22PM -0500, Steve Litt wrote:

[cut]

> 
> I wonder if Devuan had the foresight in config.h to set 
> 
> static Bool enableplugins = FALSE;
> 
> Straight from Suckless, it's set to TRUE. If the Devuan developers set
> it to FALSE, that has the same effect as always using -p.
> 

Hi Steve,

I don't see why it should be set to false, and in any case it is set
to TRUE in the devuan package.

HND

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] Browsers

[Steve Litt]

On Mon, 27 Feb 2017 10:13:31 +
KatolaZ  wrote:

> On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 06:24:36PM -0500, Steve Litt wrote:
> > On Thu, 23 Feb 2017 19:39:56 +
> > KatolaZ  wrote:

> > What I've found is that if you want to do this in stable manner (at
> > least on Void), you need the following command, EXACTLY:
> > 
> > tabbed surf -peg
> >   
> 
> I have been using
> 
>   tabbed surf -g -e
> 
> in Devuan form months, and it has never ever crashed. Both tabbed and
> surf are from the devuan repos (deb-src in the case of surf, for small
> configs).
> 
> HND

I wonder if Devuan had the foresight in config.h to set 

static Bool enableplugins = FALSE;

Straight from Suckless, it's set to TRUE. If the Devuan developers set
it to FALSE, that has the same effect as always using -p.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
February 2017 featured book: Thriving in Tough Times
http://www.troubleshooters.com/thrive
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Re: [DNG] Browsers

[KatolaZ]

On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 06:24:36PM -0500, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Feb 2017 19:39:56 +
> KatolaZ  wrote:
> 
> 
> > If you don't mind minimal stuff (i.e., a browser that just browse the
> > WWW and downloads files on request), then surf+tabbed is a very good
> > and stable solution. Here are the links:
> > 
> >   http://surf.suckless.org/
> >   http://tools.suckless.org/tabbed/
> > 
> > The setup is extremely simple. You just "apt-get install tabbed surf"
> > and bind your preferred keystroke or menu entry to:
> > 
> > "tabbed surf -g -e"
> 
> Danger Will Robinson:
> 
> The preceding fails on Void Linux setups. It dies with the dreaded
> "webkit based browser suddenly aborts" symptom.
> 
> What I've found is that if you want to do this in stable manner (at
> least on Void), you need the following command, EXACTLY:
> 
> tabbed surf -peg
> 

I have been using

  tabbed surf -g -e

in Devuan form months, and it has never ever crashed. Both tabbed and
surf are from the devuan repos (deb-src in the case of surf, for small
configs).

HND

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] Browsers

[Steve Litt]

On Thu, 23 Feb 2017 19:39:56 +
KatolaZ  wrote:


> If you don't mind minimal stuff (i.e., a browser that just browse the
> WWW and downloads files on request), then surf+tabbed is a very good
> and stable solution. Here are the links:
> 
>   http://surf.suckless.org/
>   http://tools.suckless.org/tabbed/
> 
> The setup is extremely simple. You just "apt-get install tabbed surf"
> and bind your preferred keystroke or menu entry to:
> 
> "tabbed surf -g -e"

Danger Will Robinson:

The preceding fails on Void Linux setups. It dies with the dreaded
"webkit based browser suddenly aborts" symptom.

What I've found is that if you want to do this in stable manner (at
least on Void), you need the following command, EXACTLY:

tabbed surf -peg

The "p" arg tells it not to use plugins, which is what is needed to fix
the sudden abort. Too bad Midori and the rest don't have the same arg.
the "e" supposedly tells it to re-parent, but supposedly requires an
argument for the parent. . The "g" prevents geolocation: The
command runs fine without it, if you're willing to give away your
position.

The order of the three letters in the *single argument* appear to be
very important. My experience was that unless the first letter is "p",
you get some variation of the "webkit suddenly vanishes" problem. The
"e" is necessary when running surf from tabbed, but fails if you run
tab alone. As mentioned previously, "g" is optional as far as the
browser running without crashing is concerned.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
February 2017 featured book: Thriving in Tough Times
http://www.troubleshooters.com/thrive
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Re: [DNG] Browsers

[Hendrik Boom]

On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 09:45:26PM +0100, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Feb 2017 20:31:08 -0500, Steve wrote in message 
> <20170225203108.2838a...@mydesk.domain.cxm>:
> 
> > On Thu, 23 Feb 2017 13:34:50 -0500
> > Hendrik Boom  wrote:
> > 
> > > And speaking of bookmarks, each browser seems to jealously hang on
> > > to its bookmarks, unless perhaps another browser manages to sneak in
> > > like a thief and import them.  Is this the way browsers cement their
> > > grip on users?  Isn't there any way of setting up bookmarks 
> > > so that multiple browsers and other tools can use them?
> > 
> > Yes.
> > 
> > Using a very simple tab-indented outline that I maintain with
> > VimOutliner adorned Vim, plus a conversion app, I have hundreds of
> > bookmarks, organized just the way I want them. If I want to change the
> > organization, I do some cutting and pasting on my outline and
> > recompile. Every browser I use has a link called "littlinks", and
> > clicking it brings up my link hierarchy. In the past I've even tweaked
> > my desktop's Apache so any computer within the house could pull up my
> > links page at http://192.168.100.2/littlinks. On any browser,
> > including elinks.
> > 
> > I did this for the exact reason you state: To keep my bookmarks from
> > being held hostage by particular software.
> > 
> > If a lot of you want this, I'll slap a free software license on it and
> > release it.
> 
> ..make it GPLv2, v3 is too kind on violators. ;o)

How is v3 kinder on violators?  As far as I know, it has a lot of 
restrictions to forbid various kinds of abuse.

And to reach maximum availability for various forms of reuse, please 
if you want to use GPL2 or 3, use GPL2+.

I'd be happy with a freeer license, too.  There. a word with three 
consecutive e's!

-- hendrik

> 
> > SteveT
> > 
> > Steve Litt 
> > February 2017 featured book: Thriving in Tough Times
> > http://www.troubleshooters.com/thrive
> 
> -- 
> ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen
> ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
>   Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
>   best case, worst case, and just in case.
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Re: [DNG] Browsers

[Rick Moen]

Quoting Arnt Karlsen (a...@iaksess.no):

> ..make it GPLv2, v3 is too kind on violators. ;o)

Steve leans strongly towards permissive licensing, of the MIT-ish
flavour.  

Copyright violation is actually possible under permissive licences, too:
The obvious way is to wrongfully remove another contributor's copyright 
notice from incumbent source code -- as a judge found AT Bell Labs to
have done in his preliminary ruling in the AT v. UC Regents lawsuit 
(the BSD lawsuit), just before the case was quietly settled.  But
they're rare, because you have to be kind of a colossal idiot to violate
them.

-- 
Cheers,  Homo in Domu Alba, qui est iratus et habet in 
Rick Moenartificialibus capillum:  Quod homo non sit
r...@linuxmafia.com  honesta, et est perniciosa in rei publicae.
McQ! (4x80)   
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Re: [DNG] Browsers

[Arnt Karlsen]

On Sat, 25 Feb 2017 20:31:08 -0500, Steve wrote in message 
<20170225203108.2838a...@mydesk.domain.cxm>:

> On Thu, 23 Feb 2017 13:34:50 -0500
> Hendrik Boom  wrote:
> 
> > And speaking of bookmarks, each browser seems to jealously hang on
> > to its bookmarks, unless perhaps another browser manages to sneak in
> > like a thief and import them.  Is this the way browsers cement their
> > grip on users?  Isn't there any way of setting up bookmarks 
> > so that multiple browsers and other tools can use them?
> 
> Yes.
> 
> Using a very simple tab-indented outline that I maintain with
> VimOutliner adorned Vim, plus a conversion app, I have hundreds of
> bookmarks, organized just the way I want them. If I want to change the
> organization, I do some cutting and pasting on my outline and
> recompile. Every browser I use has a link called "littlinks", and
> clicking it brings up my link hierarchy. In the past I've even tweaked
> my desktop's Apache so any computer within the house could pull up my
> links page at http://192.168.100.2/littlinks. On any browser,
> including elinks.
> 
> I did this for the exact reason you state: To keep my bookmarks from
> being held hostage by particular software.
> 
> If a lot of you want this, I'll slap a free software license on it and
> release it.

..make it GPLv2, v3 is too kind on violators. ;o)

> SteveT
> 
> Steve Litt 
> February 2017 featured book: Thriving in Tough Times
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/thrive

-- 
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
  best case, worst case, and just in case.
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Re: [DNG] Browsers

[KatolaZ]

On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 04:00:23PM +0100, J. Fahrner wrote:
> Am 23.02.2017 um 20:39 schrieb KatolaZ:
> >
> > "tabbed surf -g -e"
> >
> > and you are done. Well, you still need a good "man tabbed" and "man
> > surf" to get things done...
> 
> What is the option "-g" for? Mine seems to not have it.

-g is used to disable providing geo-location information to the
 server. It's there in surf 0.7. You can safely discard it altogether
 if you want.

> According to the man page, plugins should be supported by copying them
> to /usr/lib/browser-plugins. What type of plugins? Firefox? Chrome? Is
> it possible to use Lastpass? Do you have an example?

libflashplayer.so for flash is the only example I have at hand. I
don't know what Lastpass is. I don't use any other plugin.

> Is it possible to load Google as default page?

Definitely yes, but depending on what you exactly want to do you might
need to fiddle with xprop, as explained at this URL:

https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=192140

My2Cents

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] Browsers

[J. Fahrner]

Am 23.02.2017 um 20:39 schrieb KatolaZ:
>
> "tabbed surf -g -e"
>
> and you are done. Well, you still need a good "man tabbed" and "man
> surf" to get things done...

What is the option "-g" for? Mine seems to not have it.
According to the man page, plugins should be supported by copying them
to /usr/lib/browser-plugins. What type of plugins? Firefox? Chrome? Is
it possible to use Lastpass? Do you have an example?
Is it possible to load Google as default page? When I append a URL the
-e option does not work.
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Re: [DNG] Browsers

[Steve Litt]

On Thu, 23 Feb 2017 13:34:50 -0500
Hendrik Boom  wrote:

> And speaking of bookmarks, each browser seems to jealously hang on to 
> its bookmarks, unless perhaps another browser manages to sneak in
> like a thief and import them.  Is this the way browsers cement their
> grip on users?  Isn't there any way of setting up bookmarks 
> so that multiple browsers and other tools can use them?

Yes.

Using a very simple tab-indented outline that I maintain with
VimOutliner adorned Vim, plus a conversion app, I have hundreds of
bookmarks, organized just the way I want them. If I want to change the
organization, I do some cutting and pasting on my outline and
recompile. Every browser I use has a link called "littlinks", and
clicking it brings up my link hierarchy. In the past I've even tweaked
my desktop's Apache so any computer within the house could pull up my
links page at http://192.168.100.2/littlinks. On any browser, including
elinks.

I did this for the exact reason you state: To keep my bookmarks from
being held hostage by particular software.

If a lot of you want this, I'll slap a free software license on it and
release it.
 
SteveT

Steve Litt 
February 2017 featured book: Thriving in Tough Times
http://www.troubleshooters.com/thrive
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Re: [DNG] Browsers

[Ozi Traveller]

I've just tested this on debian sid and I can add the shortcut and it
works. I have many shortcuts that I use, and don't have any problems.

Ozi

On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 2:53 AM,  wrote:

> On 2017-02-25 06:04, fsmithred wrote:
>
>> On 02/25/2017 05:50 AM, Jaromil wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 25 Feb 2017, aitor_czr wrote:
>>>
In my case (refracta xfce), there is no entry field for the keyboard
shortcut, only for the command, as you can see in the following
screenshot:

[2]http://gnuinos.org/hotkeys.png

>>>
>>> yes, but there is a way to leave focus from input and bang a key and
>>> then it will appear as hotkey combo in the non-editable space. I was
>>> also confused by it and found out almost by mistake how to do it.
>>>
>>> yet after passing this difficulty the configured hotkey did not work
>>>
>>> I wonder is there a better graphical tool to configure hotkeys
>>> actually? I understand that must be integrated with the
>>> windowmanager... or is there something independent of it?
>>>
>>> ciao
>>>
>>>
>> At the keyboard settings window, click Add, enter the command you want the
>> shortcut to run, click OK, and a popup will display the key combination as
>> you press it.
>>
>> It's not intuitive, and it lacks instructions.
>>
>> fsr
>>
>>
>> Indeed . . . go to settings > Keyboard > Application Shortcuts.
> Definitely not intuitive but has worked for the few hot keys I needed.
>
> golinux
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Re: [DNG] Browsers

[golinux]

On 2017-02-25 06:04, fsmithred wrote:

On 02/25/2017 05:50 AM, Jaromil wrote:

On Sat, 25 Feb 2017, aitor_czr wrote:
   In my case (refracta xfce), there is no entry field for the 
keyboard

   shortcut, only for the command, as you can see in the following
   screenshot:

   [2]http://gnuinos.org/hotkeys.png


yes, but there is a way to leave focus from input and bang a key and
then it will appear as hotkey combo in the non-editable space. I was
also confused by it and found out almost by mistake how to do it.

yet after passing this difficulty the configured hotkey did not work

I wonder is there a better graphical tool to configure hotkeys
actually? I understand that must be integrated with the
windowmanager... or is there something independent of it?

ciao



At the keyboard settings window, click Add, enter the command you want 
the
shortcut to run, click OK, and a popup will display the key combination 
as

you press it.

It's not intuitive, and it lacks instructions.

fsr


Indeed . . . go to settings > Keyboard > Application Shortcuts.  
Definitely not intuitive but has worked for the few hot keys I needed.


golinux
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Re: [DNG] Browsers

[fsmithred]

On 02/25/2017 05:50 AM, Jaromil wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Feb 2017, aitor_czr wrote:
>>In my case (refracta xfce), there is no entry field for the keyboard
>>shortcut, only for the command, as you can see in the following
>>screenshot:
>>
>>[2]http://gnuinos.org/hotkeys.png
> 
> yes, but there is a way to leave focus from input and bang a key and
> then it will appear as hotkey combo in the non-editable space. I was
> also confused by it and found out almost by mistake how to do it.
> 
> yet after passing this difficulty the configured hotkey did not work
> 
> I wonder is there a better graphical tool to configure hotkeys
> actually? I understand that must be integrated with the
> windowmanager... or is there something independent of it?
> 
> ciao
> 
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> 

At the keyboard settings window, click Add, enter the command you want the
shortcut to run, click OK, and a popup will display the key combination as
you press it.

It's not intuitive, and it lacks instructions.

fsr

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Re: [DNG] Browsers

[Jaromil]

On Sat, 25 Feb 2017, Jaromil wrote:

> I wonder is there a better graphical tool to configure hotkeys
> actually? I understand that must be integrated with the
> windowmanager... or is there something independent of it?

answering myself after a bit of research it seems that there is an
old-school solution with gtk2 GUI and a new-school solution that
hasn't yet a GUI:

- xbindkeys + xbindkeys-config (gtk2 GUI)
- sxhkd - https://github.com/baskerville/sxhkd

I recommend somehow switching to xbindkeys for refracta and devuan
desktop, but I'm not sure what would be the best way to integrate that
into the xfce4 settings.

ciao
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Re: [DNG] Browsers

[Jaromil]

On Sat, 25 Feb 2017, aitor_czr wrote:
>In my case (refracta xfce), there is no entry field for the keyboard
>shortcut, only for the command, as you can see in the following
>screenshot:
> 
>[2]http://gnuinos.org/hotkeys.png

yes, but there is a way to leave focus from input and bang a key and
then it will appear as hotkey combo in the non-editable space. I was
also confused by it and found out almost by mistake how to do it.

yet after passing this difficulty the configured hotkey did not work

I wonder is there a better graphical tool to configure hotkeys
actually? I understand that must be integrated with the
windowmanager... or is there something independent of it?

ciao

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Re: [DNG] Browsers

[aitor_czr]

Hi Jaromil,

El 24/02/17 a las 12:31, Jaromil  escribió:

about hotkeys in xfce, I had odd experienced both in Refracta and in
Devuan, that newly created hotkeys aren't responding. Does anyone has
the same experience?


In my case (refracta xfce), there is no entry field for the keyboard 
shortcut, only for the command, as you can see in the following screenshot:


http://gnuinos.org/hotkeys.png

Cheers,

  Aitor.


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Re: [DNG] Browsers

[Rick Moen]

Quoting Hendrik Boom (hend...@topoi.pooq.com):

> Are there other Devuan-packaged lightweight browsers anyone might 
> recommend?  I may switch to chromium, but I doubt that it's 
> lightweight.

Not exactly the answer to your question, but to a similar one:  I
maintain what I hop is a list of all Linux Web browsers, here: 
http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/faq/kicking.html#linuxbrowser


While I'm at it, let's talk layout (rendering) engines.

Gecko
-
Not much to say about this classic Mozilla Foundation codebase, except
it works, it's aging, it's used for many browsers.

Goanna
--

One thing I didn't know until just now:  Pale Moon (from 'Moonchild
Productions' is based not on Gecko exactly, but on a Jan. 2016 _fork_ of
Gecko called Goanna maintained as part of the project that produced 
Pale Moon.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goanna_(software) 
Reasons for said fork are detailed at
http://www.ghacks.net/2015/06/22/pale-moon-to-switch-from-gecko-to-goanna-rendering-engine/

Blink
-

There have been interesting things happening in browser layout engines.
First a couple'a year ago, Google forked Apple's WebKit engine to create
Blink, the engine in Chromium and Google Chrome.  (WebKit in turn was
Apple's fork of KDE's kHTML engine.)  The Blink fork was all about
Google wanting to implement per-tab processes, which was not supported
in WebKit (and thus not in Apple Safari).  Blink thus underlies all
current Chromium derivatives including current proprietary Opera Web
browser.  (Like WebKit, Blink is proprietary-friendly-licensed, thus
Amazon uses it in a proprietary embedded Web browser called Silk.)

Servo
-

More recently, Mozilla Research, with some participation by Samsung,
created an all-new experimental layout engine called Servo, with it 
rendering quite a lot faster (in part because of using GPU acceleration)
and able to be highly parallelise / fine-grained because some key parts
of it were written in Rust.  (No, you don't want to run it today.  It's
still alphaware / proof of concept code.)

WebKit (+ QtWebKit, PyQtWebkit)
--

WebKit underlies Midori, KDE Rekonq, the GNOME browser 'Web' that is the
dessicated & reanimated corpse of Epiphany (after 'Web' initially used
Gecko), and a bunch of weird things like WebOS's application runtime, 
the proprietary Slimboat Web browser, Valve's Steam UI, and some
proprietary Adobe things on other OSes courtesy of WebKit's BSD
licensing for most of the browser engine.  Plus the Arora Web browser
(formerly Icefox Arora) which is based on Qt4 + WebKit -- but Arora's
somewhere between 'stalled' and 'abandoned', last I checked.  A
particular combination of WebKit and Qt is popular and called
(inevitably) QtWebKit.  Thus Qutebrowser ('a keyboard-driven,
vim-like browser based on PyQt5 and QtWebKit').  Plus QtWeb Internet
Browser.  Plus an odd little thing called Lightweight2
(https://www.linux-apps.com/p/1131910/).  Likewise Dooble
(http://dooble.sourceforge.net).  Add Python bindings and you
get 'PyQtWebkit', used for WCGBrowser, a lightweight 'kiosk' browser
written in Python.

QtWebEngine
---

QtWebEngine (not to be confused with QtWebKit) came out recently and,
IMO, has been underappreciated.  It underlies QupZilla and the
delightful Otter Browser (revenge of the Opera Browser 12.x UI -- still
a bit experimental).  Dooble has a partial port to QtWebEngine.  And
Liri Browser (see below) can now be built for QtWebEngine.

kHTML
-

kHTML is still in use in KDE's Konqueror 'not dead yet' Web and file
browser.


So, Servo, Goanna, QtWebEngine, and Oxide (see below) are the new
layout engine options.  Those and Gecko, WebKit, kHTML, and Blink are
what we have to work with on Linux, not counting proprietary engines
(MARTHA, Prince).  I don't know why anyone but Google is yet building an
open source Web browser on Blink, but my cynical guess is that it has
something to do with their habit of rather too often doing 'open source'
by developing behind closed doors and then hurling code dumps over the
transom -- which is also how Apple rather haplessly forked kHTML without
actually intending to do so.  Which, come to think of it, reminds me 
of how Corel Software Ltd. haplessly and accidentally forked WINE for
its late 1990s Linux/Winelib port of Corel Office 2000 by making the
exact same screwup.  Some folks never learn from software history.  (The
proprietary Slimjet browser is built on Blink, but nothing open source
except Chromium, to my knowledge.  But read on)



Oxide
-

Very late in composing this e-mail, I found one exception, a fork of Google's
Blink layout engine + V8 Javascript engine called Oxide.
http://www.chriscoulson.me.uk/blog/?p=196
https://launchpad.net/oxide

Oxide is used in the Ubuntu Touch embedded browser, and in Liri Project's
Liri Browser, https://github.com/lirios/browser.


None of the above
-

A very small Web browser called qtbrowser
(https://github.com/Metrological/qtbrowser) is built on Qt4 

Re: [DNG] Browsers

[KatolaZ]

On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 10:21:13AM +0100, Adam Borowski wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 07:39:56PM +, KatolaZ wrote:
> > On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 01:34:50PM -0500, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> > > Are there other Devuan-packaged lightweight browsers anyone might 
> > > recommend?  I may switch to chromium, but I doubt that it's 
> > > lightweight.
> > 
> > If you don't mind minimal stuff (i.e., a browser that just browse the
> > WWW and downloads files on request), then surf+tabbed is a very good
> > and stable solution. Here are the links:
> > 
> >   http://surf.suckless.org/
> >   http://tools.suckless.org/tabbed/
> 
> Uhm, no.  It doesn't have even the most necessary basics, like ad blocking. 
> Seriously, how can one humanly browse when 2/3 of the screen is full of
> flashing crap, not to mention all security and privacy issues?
> 

You can have ad-blocking, if you want:

http://surf.suckless.org/files/adblock-hosts

The truth is that if you want to keep a browser light you should let
it exclusively browse. All the rest should be handled in a proper way
by proper tools, working together in the old unix-style.

> 
> I say "security" despite a first-party site having same or more
> capabilities to exploit an unpatched issue than a third-party element, but
> in practice, the chances https://slashdot.org or https://devuan.org would
> run an attack are a wee bit less than a random sleazy ad peddler.
> 
> 

surf enforces TLS by default. You have to recompile if you want to
disable it. It also supports socks5 proxies, even through a simple
"ssh -D ...".

BTW, Hendrik asked for a "light" solution, and I suggested the one I
have found after years of frustration with the late Mozilla & Co.

I understand very well though that nowadays we are used to have
full-featured operating systems as browsers, so that "light" might
actually mean very different things to different people :)

My2Cents

KatolaZ

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[ ~.,_  Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - GLUGCT -- Freaknet Medialab  ]  
[ "+.  katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it  ]
[   @)   http://kalos.mine.nu ---  Devuan GNU + Linux User  ]
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Re: [DNG] Browsers

[Adam Borowski]

On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 07:39:56PM +, KatolaZ wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 01:34:50PM -0500, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> > Are there other Devuan-packaged lightweight browsers anyone might 
> > recommend?  I may switch to chromium, but I doubt that it's 
> > lightweight.
> 
> If you don't mind minimal stuff (i.e., a browser that just browse the
> WWW and downloads files on request), then surf+tabbed is a very good
> and stable solution. Here are the links:
> 
>   http://surf.suckless.org/
>   http://tools.suckless.org/tabbed/

Uhm, no.  It doesn't have even the most necessary basics, like ad blocking. 
Seriously, how can one humanly browse when 2/3 of the screen is full of
flashing crap, not to mention all security and privacy issues?


I say "security" despite a first-party site having same or more
capabilities to exploit an unpatched issue than a third-party element, but
in practice, the chances https://slashdot.org or https://devuan.org would
run an attack are a wee bit less than a random sleazy ad peddler.


Meow!
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Re: [DNG] Browsers

[Jaromil]

On Thu, 23 Feb 2017, Hendrik Boom wrote:

> Is this a kind of refugee syndrome?  never feeling I'm home any
> more?

if you are into such a syndrome, then get prepared to cry for days
whenever you will finally feel at home again.

about hotkeys in xfce, I had odd experienced both in Refracta and in
Devuan, that newly created hotkeys aren't responding. Does anyone has
the same experience?

ciao
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Re: [DNG] Browsers

[Hendrik Boom]

On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 07:39:56PM +, KatolaZ wrote:
> 
> I have already implicitly replied to this question before you even
> answered it (in the gtk+3 thread).
> 
> If you don't mind minimal stuff (i.e., a browser that just browse the
> WWW and downloads files on request), then surf+tabbed is a very good
> and stable solution. Here are the links:
> 
>   http://surf.suckless.org/
>   http://tools.suckless.org/tabbed/
> 
> The setup is extremely simple. You just "apt-get install tabbed surf"
> and bind your preferred keystroke or menu entry to:
> 
> "tabbed surf -g -e"
> 
> and you are done. Well, you still need a good "man tabbed" and "man
> surf" to get things done...

Thanks.  surf and tabbed look useful.  It'll take a while to figure 
out just how I can best use them.

Now to figure out how to bind keytrokes or menu entries.  I currently 
use xcfe, completely in dfault configuration.  After coming as refugee 
from gnome and kde, I hesitate to cuddle up with a new DE and invest 
real effort into it.

Is this a kind of refugee syndrome?  never feeling I'm home any more?

I guess I'm just ranting about the closing in of open software.

-- hendrik

> 
> > And speaking of bookmarks, each browser seems to jealously hang on to 
> > its bookmarks, unless perhaps another browser manages to sneak in like 
> > a thief and import them.  Is this the way browsers cement their grip 
> > on users?  Isn't there any way of setting up bookmarks 
> > so that multiple browsers and other tools can use them?
> >
> 
> I got pissed off of the 300 incompatible ways in which bookmarks are
> stored by different browsers. I wrote a simple 20-line shell script
> which copy/pastes from/to the content of the current X clipboard and
> sets/gets bookmarks to/from a simple file in the form:
> 
> http://suckless.org/ | suckless.org
> http://www.devuan.org | devuan website homepage
> .
> 
> with obvious meaning. The script is bound to a keystroke to search for
> a bookmark (using dmenu) or launched with any "run-thing" (or a shell)
> to create a new bookmark and associate tags to it. It works for
> cavemen like me, but do not expect any eyecandy ;) If you think you
> might like it, just shout and I will put the script somewhere.
> 
> HND
> 
> KatolaZ
> 
> -- 
> [ ~.,_  Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - GLUGCT -- Freaknet Medialab  ]  
> [ "+.  katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it  ]
> [   @)   http://kalos.mine.nu ---  Devuan GNU + Linux User  ]
> [ @@)  http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia --  GPG: 0B5F062F  ] 
> [ (@@@)  Twitter: @KatolaZ - skype: katolaz -- github: KatolaZ  ]
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Re: [DNG] Browsers

[Hendrik Boom]

On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 03:47:33PM -0300, Renaud OLGIATI wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Feb 2017 13:34:50 -0500
> Hendrik Boom  wrote:
> 
> > But firefox sometimes get crazy slow -- so slow I get no feedbak 
> > whether I've properly clicked on a menu item or icon or some 
> > such.  I've recently discovereed that killall firfox-esr will kill it, 
> > and when I restart it offers to reestablish all ite tabs it had 
> > before, and after that procedure it's usable again.  Memory leak 
> > perhaps?
> 
> I found that at times, when some sites like Facebook are opened in a tab, 
> Firefox sometimes uses up 100% of cpu as reported by htop...

My wife has that problem on her mac.  I never use Facebook in a browser, 
so that's not likely to be the problem.

>  
> Cheers,
>  
> Ron.
> -- 
>   The liar's punishment is not in the least that he is not believed,
>   but that he cannot believe anyone else.   
>--George Bernard Shaw

Thanks.  An insight in the age of fake news.

-- hendrik

> 
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Re: [DNG] Browsers

[KatolaZ]

On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 01:34:50PM -0500, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> Browsers.  What a mess.
> 

[cut]

> 
> Are there other Devuan-packaged lightweight browsers anyone might 
> recommend?  I may switch to chromium, but I doubt that it's 
> lightweight.
> 

I have already implicitly replied to this question before you even
answered it (in the gtk+3 thread).

If you don't mind minimal stuff (i.e., a browser that just browse the
WWW and downloads files on request), then surf+tabbed is a very good
and stable solution. Here are the links:

  http://surf.suckless.org/
  http://tools.suckless.org/tabbed/

The setup is extremely simple. You just "apt-get install tabbed surf"
and bind your preferred keystroke or menu entry to:

"tabbed surf -g -e"

and you are done. Well, you still need a good "man tabbed" and "man
surf" to get things done...

> And speaking of bookmarks, each browser seems to jealously hang on to 
> its bookmarks, unless perhaps another browser manages to sneak in like 
> a thief and import them.  Is this the way browsers cement their grip 
> on users?  Isn't there any way of setting up bookmarks 
> so that multiple browsers and other tools can use them?
>

I got pissed off of the 300 incompatible ways in which bookmarks are
stored by different browsers. I wrote a simple 20-line shell script
which copy/pastes from/to the content of the current X clipboard and
sets/gets bookmarks to/from a simple file in the form:

http://suckless.org/ | suckless.org
http://www.devuan.org | devuan website homepage
.

with obvious meaning. The script is bound to a keystroke to search for
a bookmark (using dmenu) or launched with any "run-thing" (or a shell)
to create a new bookmark and associate tags to it. It works for
cavemen like me, but do not expect any eyecandy ;) If you think you
might like it, just shout and I will put the script somewhere.

HND

KatolaZ

-- 
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[ "+.  katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it  ]
[   @)   http://kalos.mine.nu ---  Devuan GNU + Linux User  ]
[ @@)  http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia --  GPG: 0B5F062F  ] 
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Re: [DNG] Browsers

[Ron]

On Thu, 23 Feb 2017 13:34:50 -0500
Hendrik Boom  wrote:

> But firefox sometimes get crazy slow -- so slow I get no feedbak 
> whether I've properly clicked on a menu item or icon or some 
> such.  I've recently discovereed that killall firfox-esr will kill it, 
> and when I restart it offers to reestablish all ite tabs it had 
> before, and after that procedure it's usable again.  Memory leak 
> perhaps?

I found that at times, when some sites like Facebook are opened in a tab, 
Firefox sometimes uses up 100% of cpu as reported by htop...
 
Cheers,
 
Ron.
-- 
  The liar's punishment is not in the least that he is not believed,
  but that he cannot believe anyone else.   
   --George Bernard Shaw

   -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org --
 
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