Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Draw Guide (full book) now available
Hi :) Phones or any other real-time communication drives me up the wall. Sometimes i might type things faster and in real-time would have to wait ages while the person thought about it. More usually i get distracted by things afk or other on-screen things that must have a higher priority. With emails i can return later and pick-up my train of thought (or hit delete). Even though i say a lot of unwise or rash things by email i'm probably far worse in person. Regards from Tom :) On 28 November 2013 21:04, Jean Weber jeanwe...@gmail.com wrote: Bruce, I wrote to you the day before yesterday about the Calc Guide, in response to a private note from you. Among other things, I mentioned that I am located in eastern Australia, Brisbane time zone (GMT+10). However, I do not talk to anyone on the telephone except in very unusual circumstances; sorry. In case you can't find the note I sent you, I will resend it. --Jean On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 11:50 PM, Bruce Martin brucemarti...@gmail.com wrote: Dear Jean: Thank you for the links to thew WIKI stuff. What I had seen tas a comment in regards to Calc, chapter 14 and the graphics issues. However, from what I can see cursorially, there is no indication if chapter 14 and the Calc .ODT instructions are really one and the same, or if the Calc section comprises more than one chapter, or less than one chapter. I see you are located in Germany. given it is 8:16 AM here in Montreal, I guess I would add 6 hours, making it 14:00 there? I wonder, for a quicker start if I could get a phone number to call you, as there are a lot of minor questions that I thinking could be faster cleared in a voice chat. My return email address is brucemarti...@gmail.com. In the interim, I will check on the list of 30 countries I have in my international long distance package with Videotron (local cable provider) and Germany is included. That service cost me a paltry 3 cents a minute, so the call would be on me. (I also have a retired friend in Mexico, which is why I got that package, and I chat back and forth several times a week ongoing.) On 11/26/2013 01:44 AM, Jean Weber wrote: Have fun finding all the errors I missed (or that I introduced when compiling the book). http://www.odfauthors.org/libreoffice/english/draw-guide/published-lo-4.1/dg4-1-draw-guide-full-book-pdf/view http://www.odfauthors.org/libreoffice/english/draw-guide/published-lo-4.1/dg4-1-draw-guide-full-book/view https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Publications#LibreOffice_Draw_Guide Printed edition coming soon. A big round of applause to PeterS for his work on this book. --Jean -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Copy documentation from OpenOffice.org?
Hi :) If we did copy the worst case scenario is apparently that we get served with a Cease and Desist or a Take down notice. Since it's a wiki that is easy for anyone to do at very short notice. The problem would be if we published in printed form and were then expected to recall all published copies. Plus the chance of being caught out is very small. Apache are not the enemy. Most of them are us too anyway or nearly us. When OpenOffice was owned by Oracle there was a much higher risk of them scrabbling around trying to find any way of making any money and causing us any trouble they possibly could. If Apache tried to take us to court or anything then i suspect that a lot of their volunteers would be quite unhappy or feel a conflict of loyalties. Their customers might object even more. If we don't copy and DO the translations ourselves and the result is much the same as the Apache one then wouldn't that be considered a copy anyway? Could we prove that it was sufficiently different that it couldn't really be considered a copy? So, i think that in this case it is worth taking the risk because the chance of it being a problem is fairly tiny and it's very easy to fix if there is a problem. I'm not sure how i would feel if the Published Guides were copying stuff. I'm not sure how that would play out. If we had to pay people to return any copies of the published guides then it would be a nightmare. On the other hand the risk of that happening is a LOT lower under Apache than it was under Oracle. It's theoretical anyway now that LO has developed so much so quickly. As time goes on the Faq will hopefully get updated quite a bit as new functionality gets added and hopefully will fairly soon reach a point where it's sufficient different that it would be impossible to take action against it. Just my 2cents. I'm not a lawyer and haven't studied copyright law in any country nor international law about it. I've just followed a few threads about this this sort of thing and made some sort of sense of it. Regards from Tom :) On 29 November 2013 06:17, Robinson Tryon bishop.robin...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 10:20 PM, Glen Reesor g...@jenniferandglen.ca wrote: I'm working on translating the Math FAQ from French to English and noticed that very good English versions of these questions exist athttps://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/FAQ/Formula div Given that LibreOffice forked fromOpenOffice.orgin 2010 (prior to the vast majority of content on thatOo.orgpage), is the licensing such that we can just copy these FAQs to the LibreOffice FAQs? - Glen The OOo wiki to which you linked states that Content is available under . [sic] (they appear to have an issues correctly rendering the copyright/license for the page). Looking at the page source, it appears the intended target is Wiki:Copyrights[1]. The Wiki:Copyrights page says the following: --- Portions of the OpenOffice.org Wiki are Copyright 1999, 2010 by contributing authors and Oracle and/or its affiliates. Sections or single pages of this wiki are covered by certain licenses. If a license notice is displayed at a given wiki page, you may use the content of that page according to that license. In all other cases, the page is licensed under the Apache License, Version 2.0 (ALv2). In posting a new contribution, you are licensing that contribution under the Apache License, Version 2.0 (ALv2). --- May one combine ALv2 works with CC-BY-SA v3.0 works (under the latter license) ? I'm not certain, but (to pick one of many possible points of incompatibility) I believe that the various patent provisions in ALv2 are not (sufficiently) expressed/protected by CC-BY-SA. tl;dr - One may not copy entire FAQs from wiki.openoffice.org - wiki.documentfoundation.org (IMHO) Cheers, --R [1] https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/OpenOffice.org_Wiki:Copyrights -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: WooooHooo!! :) Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Draw Guide (full book) now available
Le 26/11/2013 15:06, Tom Davies a écrit : Hi :) Congrats PeterS!! Nicely done!! :))) Also thanks to Jean and anyone else who helped out +1 I'm looking forward to finding this book at Lulu's. Cheers, -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Copy documentation from OpenOffice.org?
On 29 Nov 2013, at 13:20, Glen Reesor g...@jenniferandglen.ca wrote: I'm working on translating the Math FAQ from French to English and noticed that very good English versions of these questions exist athttps://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/FAQ/Formula div Given that LibreOffice forked fromOpenOffice.orgin 2010 (prior to the vast majority of content on thatOo.orgpage), is the licensing such that we can just copy these FAQs to the LibreOffice FAQs? - Glen I am checking on some facts related to that section of the wiki and will get back to you later today (it's early morning here in Australia). Meanwhile, Sophie or Clayton may have some memory of the history of those pages that would be relevant to this discussion. --Jean -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Copy documentation from OpenOffice.org?
On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 10:26 PM, Jean Hollis Weber jeanwe...@gmail.com wrote: On 29 Nov 2013, at 13:20, Glen Reesor g...@jenniferandglen.ca wrote: I'm working on translating the Math FAQ from French to English and noticed that very good English versions of these questions exist athttps://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/FAQ/Formula div Given that LibreOffice forked fromOpenOffice.orgin 2010 (prior to the vast majority of content on thatOo.orgpage), is the licensing such that we can just copy these FAQs to the LibreOffice FAQs? - Glen I am checking on some facts related to that section of the wiki and will get back to you later today (it's early morning here in Australia). Meanwhile, Sophie or Clayton may have some memory of the history of those pages that would be relevant to this discussion. Unless otherwise stated, the FAQ pages on the OOo Wiki are under the PDL ( http://www.openoffice.org/licenses/PDL.html ). The PDL license wasn't added to every FAQ page for various reasons that made marginal sense at the time. The original authors of the English FAQ (structure, layout and content) on the OOo Wiki... were mainly the Sun team (Frank, Uwe, Martina and myself), and Jean. There was of course community contributions as well, but that was mostly on adding information to existing topics. Clayton -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Copy documentation from OpenOffice.org?
On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 6:54 AM, Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Hi :) If we did copy the worst case scenario is apparently that we get served with a Cease and Desist or a Take down notice ... Plus the chance of being caught out is very small... .. If we don't copy and DO the translations ourselves and the result is much the same as the Apache one then wouldn't that be considered a copy anyway? ...so, i think that in this case it is worth taking the risk because the chance of it being a problem is fairly tiny and it's very easy to fix if there is a problem. (IANAL either) I think we should be careful about basing our policy on a quick cost vs. benefit risk analysis. If a licensing question arises in the course of our work, I propose that we try to resolve the particulars first and then copy code/documentation/media after we've gotten our ducks in a solid row. On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 4:45 PM, C smau...@gmail.com wrote: Unless otherwise stated, the FAQ pages on the OOo Wiki are under the PDL ( http://www.openoffice.org/licenses/PDL.html ). The PDL license wasn't added to every FAQ page for various reasons that made marginal sense at the time. Clayton -- Is there a way that the correct license could be added to those webpages and/or a note could be put somewhere online on the openoffice.org website that confirms the licensing? It would just make the whole process of verifying licenses before copying content much cleaner. FWIW, I'm not sure that the PDL is compatible with CC-BY-SA 3.0 (the license of the TDF Wiki): https://creativecommons.org/compatiblelicenses https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:Qubit/license Thanks, --R -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Copy documentation from OpenOffice.org?
On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 7:42 AM, Robinson Tryon bishop.robin...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 6:54 AM, Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Hi :) If we did copy the worst case scenario is apparently that we get served with a Cease and Desist or a Take down notice ... Plus the chance of being caught out is very small... .. If we don't copy and DO the translations ourselves and the result is much the same as the Apache one then wouldn't that be considered a copy anyway? ...so, i think that in this case it is worth taking the risk because the chance of it being a problem is fairly tiny and it's very easy to fix if there is a problem. (IANAL either) I think we should be careful about basing our policy on a quick cost vs. benefit risk analysis. If a licensing question arises in the course of our work, I propose that we try to resolve the particulars first and then copy code/documentation/media after we've gotten our ducks in a solid row. On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 4:45 PM, C smau...@gmail.com wrote: Unless otherwise stated, the FAQ pages on the OOo Wiki are under the PDL ( http://www.openoffice.org/licenses/PDL.html ). The PDL license wasn't added to every FAQ page for various reasons that made marginal sense at the time. Clayton -- Is there a way that the correct license could be added to those webpages and/or a note could be put somewhere online on the openoffice.org website that confirms the licensing? It would just make the whole process of verifying licenses before copying content much cleaner. FWIW, I'm not sure that the PDL is compatible with CC-BY-SA 3.0 (the license of the TDF Wiki): https://creativecommons.org/compatiblelicenses https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:Qubit/license The simple answer is probably... no. Adding an explicit license retroactively was attempted many times (by myself and others) back when it was all still freshly uploaded on the Wiki. This was always met with loud protests and rollbacks (they would remove the license as quickly as I added it) by one or two (mainly one) very vocal community members (who weren't even documentation contributors). The best we/I could do at the time was set explicit licenses where we remembered (eg all the stuff under CC-By that Jean put into the Wiki), and we put the rest of the Wiki under a general PDL license (which was also loudly protested by the same one or two community members... no one else cared). The AOO community attempted to correct the licensing mess by keeping a blanket license in place (and more visible) that serves the same purpose as the blanket license that was in place when it was hosted by Sun. So, as it stands is what we have to work with (unless the AOO guys are willing to make the changes, but I think they'll face the same issues we did back in 2009-2011). The PDL is a bit of an odd animal making it slightly more complicated than it needs to be... a legacy of the Sun Microsystems days still haunting things :-P Even if the PDL was explicitly stated on every single Wiki page, I have a feeling you'd clash with CC-BY-SA anyway. Clayton PS:I have no quibble with whatever license is given to the documentation, and anything I personally wrote is free for anyone to use under any license. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Copy documentation from OpenOffice.org?
Le 29/11/2013 22:26, Jean Hollis Weber a écrit : On 29 Nov 2013, at 13:20, Glen Reesor g...@jenniferandglen.ca wrote: I'm working on translating the Math FAQ from French to English and noticed that very good English versions of these questions exist athttps://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/FAQ/Formula div Given that LibreOffice forked fromOpenOffice.orgin 2010 (prior to the vast majority of content on thatOo.orgpage), is the licensing such that we can just copy these FAQs to the LibreOffice FAQs? - Glen I am checking on some facts related to that section of the wiki and will get back to you later today (it's early morning here in Australia). Meanwhile, Sophie or Clayton may have some memory of the history of those pages that would be relevant to this discussion. For the French FAQ, we retrieved it from the site before it became AOO. As I said, it comes from the SO time where the FR community of this time began to build it (see here for the fun http://soo.alomphega.com/faq/FAQ.HTML). Then we updated it on the OOo FR with no license first (that was not under Sun umbrella as the FR project was not official), then on the OOo wiki, which was PDL. So the articles took the license of the LO wiki at the beginning of the LO project. I don't know for the EN content, or content in other languages. Kind regards Sophie -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
