[Drakelist] Test

[Donley]

I lost my connection to the Drakelist and am testing to see if it has been 
restored.

Richard

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Re: [Drakelist] TX-4C 160 Mod ?

[Donley]

Kris, Garey and Group,

Does anyone have a good, sharp and clear pdf file of the RF Tune sticker 
furnished with the FS-4? Is there a source for purchase of after-market 
stickers?


73
Richard
kc9ub



- Original Message - 
From: "Garey Barrell" 

To: "Kris Merschrod" 
Cc: 
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 11:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Drakelist] TX-4C 160 Mod ?



Kris -

The 160M 'Mod' consists of a couple of extra capacitors to stretch the 
160M band down to 1800 kHz rather than the stock 1840 kHz.


The 'factory applied decal' is an accessory supplied with the FS-4 
'Crystal Eliminator' to show the General Coverage bands and is stuck on by 
the owner!


The 160 Mod is on your CD for the T-4X/B/C.

--
73, Garey - K4OAH
St Charles, IL

Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line
and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs



Kris Merschrod wrote:
Does anyone have the "scoop" on this 160 mod on eBay?  Yes, inside there 
are 4 crystals in the sockets and the decale on the front looks like a 
nice addition, but what could be the "mod" ?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220914022496&viewitem=&sspagename=ADME%3AB%3AWNA%3AMOTORS%3A1123#ht_500wt_1202 


Kris KM2KM


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Re: [Drakelist] TR-4C Bias Adjustment

[Donley]

Garey et al,

I made resistance measurements on the RF Output switch on the LOAD shaft
with the switch in place and wires and resistor attached. I got steady
readings but wasn't satisfied. I removed the switch and made measurements
just on the switch contacts. The open positions were obviously open, but the
shorting functions of the switch were unstable. I replaced the switch with
the only thing that I had which was a slide switch with
snap-and-remain-in-position, not spring loaded for easy return. However, the
LOAD shaft spring is strong enough to return the switch.

EUREKA

The old switch mechanism must have been locking the circuit into the RF
output measurement mode.

I can now adjust the bias current with the switches set in the required
position. However, I can also adjust the bias current with the SIDEBAND
switch set in the X position.
Question 1Is this normal?

I can also properly tune the transmitter. The PLATE control dips current
like it should. The RF output adjusts like it should. I can tune and load
the transmitter to 440 mA plate current with 185 W output on 40 M. (7.164
MHz.). I have not tried any other frequency. When I activate the mike switch
I see the bias or idle current on the plate meter.
Question 2Is this normal?

When I huff into the mike, the plate current huffs with me.

I have no operating experience with the TR-4C, so I don't know the answers
to these two questions.

I have a proper switch on order.

A new item popped up though. When I just ever-so-slightly twist the chassis,
the volume level on the speaker drops to about 20 %. I don't know what else
might be affected. If I flex the chassis slightly, the volume comes back. If
I press the mike switch or activate the key, which activates the relay, the
volume level comes back. So it doesn't necessarily take flexure to bring it
back. I am thinking bad solder joint somewhere from my continually flexing
the chassis in turning it over repeatedly, or that the relay contacts are
not as good as I thought they looked. I have a new relay ordered also.

Anyway, the major problem seems to be fixed and I can get it on the air.
Garey, I thank you very much for your help and all the others who chipped in
with suggestions. The Drakelist sure works.

Richard




- Original Message - 
From: "Garey Barrell" 

To: "Donley" 
Cc: "drakelist" 
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: [Drakelist] TR-4C Bias Adjustment



Richard -

OK.  Good idea.  Sometimes it helps to just step back and look at the 
simple things again!  :-)


For 'normal' operation of the PA, with the LOAD control at minimum, adjust 
the PLATE control while monitoring the voltage across R45.  The voltage 
should 'dip' at about the same place the output 'peaks'.


IF you were to adjust the RF TUNE control, you  _would_  see the output 
_AND_  R45 voltage both peak near the center and fall off on both sides.


73, Garey - K4OAH
Glen Allen, VA

Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line
and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs



Donley wrote:

Garey,

I am not offended by any questions about whether I am doing things 
correctly. I need reality checks occasionally. I checked over my notes 
that I am keeping and see that the current did NOT dip across R45 but 
acted just like the RF output and peaked about midrange and fell off on 
both sides. I want to go back and redo some of these measurements. I 
removed the RF output switch on the LOAD control to make better 
resistance measurements on the switch. I found the contacts to be 
unstable out of circuit, so I am going to replace it. Maybe the 
connection to the LOAD shaft would hold the switch in the right position 
to make good contact. I don't think this is responsible for the problem, 
but it can't hurt to replace it.


I am going to go back and recheck some of the measurements and make sure 
that I am tuning per the manual.


Richard


- Original Message - From: "Garey Barrell" 
Cc: "drakelist" 
Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2011 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: [Drakelist] TR-4C Bias Adjustment



Richard -

I just another couple of thoughts.

Looking back through the million or so messages regarding this problem, 
I asked if the voltage across R45 'dipped' when you rotated the PLATE 
control, and you replied that it did NOT, rather it peaked just like the 
RF output, falling off on either side.  That's just not right!!  :-)


Please don't be offended, but you ARE tuning the PLATE control and NOT 
the RF TUNE control.?


Just remember, 'We do this for fun ..."  "We do this for fun ...":-)

73, Garey - K4OAH
Glen Allen, VA

Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line
and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs



Donley wrote:

Garey, et al

The PA tubes are Sylvania 6JB6, checked on a Hickok 600A and test good. 
I have seen no color to the plates of the finals.


I have 

Re: [Drakelist] TR-4C Bias Adjustment

[Donley]

Garey,

I am not offended by any questions about whether I am doing things 
correctly. I need reality checks occasionally. I checked over my notes that 
I am keeping and see that the current did NOT dip across R45 but acted just 
like the RF output and peaked about midrange and fell off on both sides. I 
want to go back and redo some of these measurements. I removed the RF output 
switch on the LOAD control to make better resistance measurements on the 
switch. I found the contacts to be unstable out of circuit, so I am going to 
replace it. Maybe the connection to the LOAD shaft would hold the switch in 
the right position to make good contact. I don't think this is responsible 
for the problem, but it can't hurt to replace it.


I am going to go back and recheck some of the measurements and make sure 
that I am tuning per the manual.


Richard


- Original Message - 
From: "Garey Barrell" 

Cc: "drakelist" 
Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2011 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: [Drakelist] TR-4C Bias Adjustment



Richard -

I just another couple of thoughts.

Looking back through the million or so messages regarding this problem, I 
asked if the voltage across R45 'dipped' when you rotated the PLATE 
control, and you replied that it did NOT, rather it peaked just like the 
RF output, falling off on either side.  That's just not right!!  :-)


Please don't be offended, but you ARE tuning the PLATE control and NOT the 
RF TUNE control.?


Just remember, 'We do this for fun ..."  "We do this for fun ...":-)

73, Garey - K4OAH
Glen Allen, VA

Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line
and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs



Donley wrote:

Garey, et al

The PA tubes are Sylvania 6JB6, checked on a Hickok 600A and test good. I 
have seen no color to the plates of the finals.


I have been doing all testing on 40 M. I came to suspect one of the 
sideband filters so I tried 80, 40 and 20 M., both upper and lower 
sideband to see what happened. I got output in excess of 125 W. to the 
dummy load in all cases. The cables to the wattmeter and dummy load are 
OK, the dummy load (switched to a Bird 8201) is OK.


I took the lid off of the PA cage and placed an all purpose telescoping 
antenna next to the cage and ran the input into an HP spectrum analyzer. 
I got a very nice signal at 7.3 MHz and also very nice signals at 14, 21 
and 28 MHz. There was no sign of any other oscillation of the finals. I 
did notice hash from the laptop computer switching power supply which 
went away when I unplugged it. Replacing and grounding the PA lid removed 
the extraneous harmonics at 14, 21 and 28 MHz. I also listened to the 
signal with another receiver and had a very clear sounding tone with no 
other noise up and down the dial. I varied the TR-4C VFO to make sure I 
was listening to the correct signal.


I did measure the lead resistance of the Fluke leads. It is about 0.15 
ohms, so the resistance of R45 will be about 2.25 ohms, closer to the 
nominal value.


I don't think anything is wrong with the output circuitry. If there was, 
how could I be measuring power out to the dummy load? The wattmeter is a 
Swan 3000. I am not absolutely certain that it is working OK. I suppose I 
should try the light bulb technology that I used as a novice back when I 
knew it all. Now I have some reasonable equipment and don't know 
anything.


Now, the last item puzzles me. I measured the ANT output to ground 
(SO-239) and it was 1.4 ohms, no way near 2.2 Megohms. RFC 7 goes to 
ground right at the SO-239. I would expect the DC resistance of the choke 
to be more than 1.4 ohms but less than 2.2 Megohms. Are we getting closer 
to an answer or just more confusion (I know it is the latter for me)?


Awaiting further task assignments. I appreciate all the help.

73
Richard



- Original Message - From: "Garey Barrell" 
To: "drakelist" 
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: [Drakelist] TR-4C Bias Adjustment



Richard -

OK.  As others have said, we are missing something fundamental, as 
transmitters just do not do this!!  :-)  Verifying that the PA tubes ARE 
6JB6 is a good idea.  The Simpson is more than adequate for all but very 
low resistance readings, 2 - 15 ohm resistors and the voltage across 
them.


You haven't confirmed which band you are using for test purposes.  I 
suggest 40M.  Are the PA plates showing any color that you have seen? 
Listen on another receiver and determine if you can hear the TR-4C on 
the frequency indicated by the dial reading.  Once you find the signal, 
does it vary with PTO adjustment as expected?


Since we have already measured the voltage across the three Cathode 
resistors and determined that they are approximately equal, nothing is 
gained by the risky (dangerous) measurement of 'plate' current.  There 
is no place else for the current through R45 to come from other t

Re: [Drakelist] TR-4C Bias Adjustment

[Donley]

Garey, et al

The PA tubes are Sylvania 6JB6, checked on a Hickok 600A and test good. I 
have seen no color to the plates of the finals.


I have been doing all testing on 40 M. I came to suspect one of the sideband 
filters so I tried 80, 40 and 20 M., both upper and lower sideband to see 
what happened. I got output in excess of 125 W. to the dummy load in all 
cases. The cables to the wattmeter and dummy load are OK, the dummy load 
(switched to a Bird 8201) is OK.


I took the lid off of the PA cage and placed an all purpose telescoping 
antenna next to the cage and ran the input into an HP spectrum analyzer. I 
got a very nice signal at 7.3 MHz and also very nice signals at 14, 21 and 
28 MHz. There was no sign of any other oscillation of the finals. I did 
notice hash from the laptop computer switching power supply which went away 
when I unplugged it. Replacing and grounding the PA lid removed the 
extraneous harmonics at 14, 21 and 28 MHz. I also listened to the signal 
with another receiver and had a very clear sounding tone with no other noise 
up and down the dial. I varied the TR-4C VFO to make sure I was listening to 
the correct signal.


I did measure the lead resistance of the Fluke leads. It is about 0.15 ohms, 
so the resistance of R45 will be about 2.25 ohms, closer to the nominal 
value.


I don't think anything is wrong with the output circuitry. If there was, how 
could I be measuring power out to the dummy load? The wattmeter is a Swan 
3000. I am not absolutely certain that it is working OK. I suppose I should 
try the light bulb technology that I used as a novice back when I knew it 
all. Now I have some reasonable equipment and don't know anything.


Now, the last item puzzles me. I measured the ANT output to ground (SO-239) 
and it was 1.4 ohms, no way near 2.2 Megohms. RFC 7 goes to ground right at 
the SO-239. I would expect the DC resistance of the choke to be more than 
1.4 ohms but less than 2.2 Megohms. Are we getting closer to an answer or 
just more confusion (I know it is the latter for me)?


Awaiting further task assignments. I appreciate all the help.

73
Richard



- Original Message - 
From: "Garey Barrell" 

To: "drakelist" 
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: [Drakelist] TR-4C Bias Adjustment



Richard -

OK.  As others have said, we are missing something fundamental, as 
transmitters just do not do this!!  :-)  Verifying that the PA tubes ARE 
6JB6 is a good idea.  The Simpson is more than adequate for all but very 
low resistance readings, 2 - 15 ohm resistors and the voltage across them.


You haven't confirmed which band you are using for test purposes.  I 
suggest 40M.  Are the PA plates showing any color that you have seen? 
Listen on another receiver and determine if you can hear the TR-4C on the 
frequency indicated by the dial reading.  Once you find the signal, does 
it vary with PTO adjustment as expected?


Since we have already measured the voltage across the three Cathode 
resistors and determined that they are approximately equal, nothing is 
gained by the risky (dangerous) measurement of 'plate' current.  There is 
no place else for the current through R45 to come from other than the 
plate supply, so measuring the voltage across it is just as accurate and 
much less dangerous.  Check your ohmmeter by shorting the test leads to 
determine if it reads "0.00" or if there is some lead resistance to be 
subtracted from the 2.4 ohm reading.  2.4 ohms is 20% high, but absolute 
current isn't critical at this point.


I believe that we have determined that the meter IS measuring current 
correctly, the current just isn't behaving normally.  It appears that 
'something' is wrong with the output circuitry of the PA, preventing it 
from transferring power from the PA plates to the antenna, or the 
'antenna' (dummy load) isn't accepting power.


Measurement of the dummy load would be a good next step.  If it measures 
near 50 ohms, then measure again at the transceiver end of the cable to 
verify that the cable is good.  Measure the resistance of the ANT output 
jack on the radio, (power off, dummy load disconnected,) it should read 
about 2.2 Megohms to chassis.  Rotate the PLATE and LOAD controls through 
their range with the ohmmeter connected, watching for anomalies.


73, Garey - K4OAH
Glen Allen, VA

Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line
and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs



Donley wrote:

Garey , Richard I, et al

Since I am the student here, I can only be Richard II.

I measured the resistance of R45, in circuit with the relay pulled. I'm 
not sure that made any difference. It measured 2.4 ohms on a Fluke 179.


Since it is difficult to adjust for MAX or MIN on a DMM, I changed to a 
Simpson 260 (I know, maybe not too accurate).


Then set SIDEBAND X, MODE X-CW cranked in some XMTR gain and tuned PLATE 
for MAX on the PLATE CUR

Re: [Drakelist] TR-4C Bias Adjustment

[Donley]

Garey , Richard I, et al

Since I am the student here, I can only be Richard II.

I measured the resistance of R45, in circuit with the relay pulled. I'm not 
sure that made any difference. It measured 2.4 ohms on a Fluke 179.


Since it is difficult to adjust for MAX or MIN on a DMM, I changed to a 
Simpson 260 (I know, maybe not too accurate).


Then set SIDEBAND X, MODE X-CW cranked in some XMTR gain and tuned PLATE for 
MAX on the PLATE CURRENT meter (because tuning for MIN didn't work). Max 
reading on the PLATE CURRENT  meter again occurs about mid-range and falls 
off on both sides. The PLATE METER read 200 mA and the voltage on R45 was 
0.46 VDC. Since R45 measured 2.4 ohms from before, the calculated current is 
about 192 mA. Close to the 200 mA on the PLATE METER.


Then I tried tuning PLATE for MIN voltage on R45 with the Simpson. I could 
not tune to MIN, there was a MAX value about mid-range and it falls off on 
either side of MAX. The voltage on R45 was very close to 0.46 VDC, the same 
as above. Again, the calculated current was about 192 mA.


Plate current or RF output?

I checked the slide switch on the LOAD control. I took resistance 
measurements in each position and it seems to be working. I added a little 
DeOxit.


I looked at the circuitry for RF output on the relay board ( I have most of 
Garey's Drake CD's). If the problem is in there, it is going to be a real 
pain to get to. I hope someone comes up with the "Golden Screwdriver" 
solution. When I was working, our solutions were "Silver Bullets". Of 
course, that was before the price of silver skyrocketed.


Richard II




- Original Message - 
From: "Garey Barrell" 

To: "drakelist" 
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 1:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Drakelist] TR-4C Bias Adjustment




Richard Knoppow wrote:


- Original Message - From: "Garey Barrell" 
To: "drakelist" 
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 6:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Drakelist] TR-4C Bias Adjustment



Richard -

I don't recall a C73 reference.?  Possibly C74, which is the Cathode 
lead feedthrough?


Rats, I thought we might be on to something.  The fact that the meter 
reading peak results in
   The other Richard I think. C-73 was my blunder from looking at the 
TR-4 schematics. Obviously the TR-4C has considerable differences. I 
meant to find a point where the collective voltage drop across the 
cathode resistors could be measured independandly of the panel meter. My 
idea was not to get a precise reading but only to see if the current 
there behaved normally, i.e., dipped at reasonance. The peaking of of the 
meter when adjusting plate tuning sure suggests its looking at output not 
plate current.
   Maybe not a bad switch but it could be something in the wiring there. 
At any rate an RF amplifier just can't behave the way the meter says its 
doing.
   I have enountered bad slide switches but not many, it can't be 
discounted with something as mysterious as this. It could be something as 
simple as a solder butch or something having been mis-wired in the past.
   The idea is to isolate the problem and I think using an independant 
meter would help.
   There has been a lot of tail-chasing over this problem and I am afraid 
I made it worse by making a fundamental mistake, that is making an 
assumption, in this case that the two versions of the TR-4 were mostly 
similar.
   My only excuse is that I am on a medication for the after effects of 
Shingles that makes me a little dumber even than usual.



Richard -

Unfortunately, I don't have medication as an excuse!  I did have low blood 
pressure after rehab this morning, does that count?!?  :-)


C74 would be a reasonable place to measure the drop across R45 to check 
for a dip coinciding with maximum output.  I was trying to set the BIAS 
voltage correctly by measuring across the Cathode resistors, and the 
resistor's values, 'accurately'.  Richard came up with ~ -50 VDC, which 
I'm afraid could result in over-dissipation of the PA, -60 to -65 is more 
typical for 100 mA.


THIS RF amplifier  _MAY_  behave just as described, (max output and max 
current coinciding,) with 'some' PA tubes and/or improperly adjusted 
neutralization, by oscillating on its own.


Yet another problem is that this transceiver has NEVER worked for this 
owner, so a 'golden screwdriver' may yet turn out to be the problem!!


73, Garey - K4OAH
Glen Allen, VA

Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line
and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs




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Re: [Drakelist] TR-4C Bias Adjustment

[Donley]

Completed tasks.

Adjusted bias control until 0.5 VDC across cathode resistor, equals 33 mA, 
three resistors in parallel equals 100 mA total bias current. Bias voltage 
is -55 VDC at this point. No bias current measurement on plate current meter 
(actually has been just a slight wiggle all along, but nothing more than a 
half pointer width wiggle).


C-73 is not a feedthrough, what point should be measured?

The LOAD control spring is intact and functioning.

In tune procedure, PLATE control does not dip, it is maximum about mid-range 
and reduces to near zero on either side of peak.


LOAD control pushed in or out, peak occurs about mid-range and falls off on 
either side of peak.


Is this pointing to the RF output slide switch circuit, possibly a shorted 
switch?




- Original Message - 
From: "Richard Knoppow" <1oldle...@ix.netcom.com>

To: ; "drakelist" 
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2011 10:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Drakelist] TR-4C Bias Adjustment




- Original Message - 
From: "Garey Barrell" 

To: "drakelist" 
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2011 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Drakelist] TR-4C Bias Adjustment



Richard -

This is what I referred to in my last message.  There is no "adjusting 
pot" on the TR-4C, but the meter is switched from Plate current to output 
meter.  That's why I said to push and pull the LOAD control a couple of 
times.  There should be a hairpin shaped spring on the LOAD control shaft 
that pushes the LOAD knob OUT for PLATE current reading and you PUSH it 
IN for RF OUTPUT reading.


73, Garey - K4OAH
Glen Allen, VA


   That's obviously a differenc I missed between the TR-4 and TR-4C but 
the idea is the same. If the meter is stuck reading output it could behave 
as described. That's why I suggested an independant measurement of cathode 
current. If he gets a dip there but not on the meter the switch is 
probably no good or something else is causing the meter to read output all 
the time.



--
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles
WB6KBL
dickb...@ix.netcom.com

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Re: [Drakelist] TR-4C Bias Adjustment

[Donley]

NE 
is NOT used for this purpose in the TR-4C, only to operate the VOX 
circuit.


In the T-4XC, the CO is shifted for CW operation.  However, in TUNE mode 
the SIDETONE IS applied to the Balanced Modulator, generating a single 
tone SSB signal, and the CO is NOT shifted.


The key here is that these Cathodes are NOT grounded in either SSB 
position.  I believe that is the result of the PTT/VOX circuit NOT 
pulling in the relay in that switch position.  Grounding the tip of the 
MIC connector causes the relay to pull in, and I believe that will cause 
the PA Cathodes to read the correct near zero reading rather than the 
156 VDC he measured.  The PLATE meter should then read correctly.  We'll 
see!  :-)


I'm now thinking the problem is in the VOX circuitry.

73, Garey - K4OAH
Glen Allen, VA



Kihwal Lee wrote:
> Richard,
>
> I think you need to find the cause of the low voltage (230V vs. 
> 250-260V) and fix that first.
> The meter circuit does not change by switching the sideband. As Garey 
> said it's only

> job is to choose the filter and the lamp.
>
> The low screen voltage will certainly affect the plate current.
>
> In the X-CW mode, the carrier frequency is shifted and the side-tone 
> is fed to the balanced
> modulator. Correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is that 
> since the carrier is shifted,
> this signal can only pass through the filter selected at the X 
> position. At the non-X position,

> no signal goes through.
>
> A lower screen voltage negatively affects the plate current. A lighter 
> bias may be required,
> but AC-4 may not be able to supply it. Now, even in this case, if you 
> push signal to the control
> grid, there will be some plate current. By advancing the TX gain, you 
> did exactly that. But
> as you know that's not the idling current (we are providing input) we 
> want to check when

> setting the bias.
>
> If the screen voltage is not too low, you can still see a good power 
> output. But without proper

> biasing, the linearity will suffer.
>
> Kihwal, K9SUL
>
>
>

> *From:* Donley mailto:donley...@comcast.net>>
> *To:* k4...@mindspring.com <mailto:k4...@mindspring.com>; drakelist 
> 
<mailto:Drakelist@zerobeat.net>>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2011 10:57 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Drakelist] TR-4C Bias Adjustment
>
> Garey,
> Sorry about the delay in my response. Time gets away from me.
>
> I acquired the TR-4C several years ago and my normal procedure is to 
> put a new acquisition on
the bench and run it through a simple use test. Then I tag it with the 
information, working or not, and put it on the shelf for later free 
time. This one has no tag, so my procedure must have failed. I don't 
remember if the bias worked or not. My guess is not.

>
> Yes, the receiver works just fine. The RV-4C is on the shelf, not 
> connected. VOX and ANTI-VOX

are set at mid-range.
> The transmitter works fine also, I just can't measure the bias 
> current. Can I assume that the
bias current is close to 100 mA if the bias voltage is ~ -60 VDC? It 
seems like there must be an open in the meter circuit when switched to 
set the bias. That should involve switches and relay contacts in the 
circuit. I am not very good at tracing circuits on the schematic when 
they start running through switches.
> In SSB mode, NON-X position, grounding the 'TIP' MIC connector pulls 
> in the relay.

>
> I should probably order a new relay and try it, but the old one 
> appeared to work when I had it
out and open for cleaning. One set of contacts was somewhat dirty but I 
had good continuity after cleaning.

>
> Richard
>
>
>
>
>
> > Richard -
> >
> > Probably should have asked this question a while ago, but has this 
> > transmitter EVER worked,

to your knowledge?
> >
> > Does the receiver work??  Do you have an RV-4(C) connected?  Verify 
> > that the VOX and ANTI-VOX

controls on the right side are about mid-range.
> >
> > Unless something has been rewired, the Cathode line of the PA should 
> > read that 0.3 to 0.4 VDC
ANY time the relay (the four pole one near the power connector) is 
energized, regardless of ANY other switch position.  The Cathode lead 
comes through the feedthrough cap on the PA section shield, goes to R45 
(2 ohms, on the board with the relay) and is hard wired from the other 
end of R45 to the relay contact.  This contact is grounded any time the 
relay is energized, grounding the PA Cathodes.

> >
> > When it's in SSB, in the NON-X position, try grounding the 'TIP' of 
> > the MIC connector and see

if the relay pulls in.
> >
> &

Re: [Drakelist] TR-4C Bias Adjustment

[Donley]

Garey,
Sorry about the delay in my response. Time gets away from me.

I acquired the TR-4C several years ago and my normal procedure is to put a 
new acquisition on the bench and run it through a simple use test. Then I 
tag it with the information, working or not, and put it on the shelf for 
later free time. This one has no tag, so my procedure must have failed. I 
don't remember if the bias worked or not. My guess is not.


Yes, the receiver works just fine. The RV-4C is on the shelf, not connected. 
VOX and ANTI-VOX are set at mid-range.
The transmitter works fine also, I just can't measure the bias current. Can 
I assume that the bias current is close to 100 mA if the bias voltage is 
~ -60 VDC? It seems like there must be an open in the meter circuit when 
switched to set the bias. That should involve switches and relay contacts in 
the circuit. I am not very good at tracing circuits on the schematic when 
they start running through switches.
In SSB mode, NON-X position, grounding the 'TIP' MIC connector pulls in the 
relay.


I should probably order a new relay and try it, but the old one appeared to 
work when I had it out and open for cleaning. One set of contacts was 
somewhat dirty but I had good continuity after cleaning.


Richard






Richard -

Probably should have asked this question a while ago, but has this 
transmitter EVER worked, to your knowledge?


Does the receiver work??  Do you have an RV-4(C) connected?  Verify that 
the VOX and ANTI-VOX controls on the right side are about mid-range.


Unless something has been rewired, the Cathode line of the PA should read 
that 0.3 to 0.4 VDC ANY time the relay (the four pole one near the power 
connector) is energized, regardless of ANY other switch position.  The 
Cathode lead comes through the feedthrough cap on the PA section shield, 
goes to R45 (2 ohms, on the board with the relay) and is hard wired from 
the other end of R45 to the relay contact.  This contact is grounded any 
time the relay is energized, grounding the PA Cathodes.


When it's in SSB, in the NON-X position, try grounding the 'TIP' of the 
MIC connector and see if the relay pulls in.


73, Garey - K4OAH
Glen Allen, VA

Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line
and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs



Donley wrote:

Garey,
I replaced the 6EV7 and there was no change. The plate voltage on the 
6EV7 measures a little low at 230 VDC (supposed to 260). This makes the 
voltage on the relay lower than the 48 VDC (measures about 26 V if I 
remember correctly, but it seems to pull in okay). I measured the four 
voltages in all combinations of the sideband switch and the mode switch 
settings (sideband switch in non-X position and mode switch in SSB 
position and then in X-CW position). Then (sideband switch in X position 
and mode switch in SSB position and then X-CW position).

The four plate voltage measurements were 687 to 690 VDC.
The four screen voltage measurements were 230 to 236 VDC (a little low if 
260 is correct).

The four grid voltage measurements were around -60 VDC.
When the Mode switch was in the SSB position, the cathode voltage was 156 
VDC for each position of the sideband switch.
When the Mode switch was in the X-CW position, the cathode voltage was 
0.3 to 0.4 VDC.


When I said I could adjust the bias voltage in the sideband X position, I 
didn't tell you that to do that I had to advance the transmitter gain 
control slightly to get 100 mA. But when I switched back to sideband 
non-X position, the current dropped to zero with no control by the bias 
knob on the AC-4.


I have pulled the one relay and opened it and cleaned the contacts with 
no change. Also cleaned the contacts on the second relay.


I have a power supply rebuild kit to install but the voltages appear to 
be okay and steady. I should probably order a new relay and try that.


If I adjust the bias pot to get -60 VDC, I have no idea what the bias 
current is, but I get plenty of power out, around 200 watts, so it seems 
to work , I just can't measure the current.


??
Richard


- Original Message - From: "Garey Barrell" 
To: "Donley" 
Cc: "Drakelist" 
Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Drakelist] TR-4C Bias Adjustment



Richard -

I've thought about this some more this afternoon, and I think the next 
step is to measure the PA voltages with the switches set per the manual 
and see WHAT is missing.


There aren't that many choices, ONE or more of the three are missing or 
incorrect.


Plate +650 VDC
Screen + 260 VDC
Grid ~ -60 VDC
Cathode ~ 0 VDC

73, Garey - K4OAH
Glen Allen, VA

Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line
and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs



Donley wrote:
"My guess is that either a KEY is plugged in and open, or the 
'shorting' jack, isn't!   Try just
inserting a phone plug into the KEY jack several times to see if that 
shorting contact will close as
it sho

Re: [Drakelist] TR-4C Bias Adjustment

[Donley]

Garey,
I replaced the 6EV7 and there was no change. The plate voltage on the 6EV7 
measures a little low at 230 VDC (supposed to 260). This makes the voltage 
on the relay lower than the 48 VDC (measures about 26 V if I remember 
correctly, but it seems to pull in okay). I measured the four voltages in 
all combinations of the sideband switch and the mode switch settings 
(sideband switch in non-X position and mode switch in SSB position and then 
in X-CW position). Then (sideband switch in X position and mode switch in 
SSB position and then X-CW position).

The four plate voltage measurements were 687 to 690 VDC.
The four screen voltage measurements were 230 to 236 VDC (a little low if 
260 is correct).

The four grid voltage measurements were around -60 VDC.
When the Mode switch was in the SSB position, the cathode voltage was 156 
VDC for each position of the sideband switch.
When the Mode switch was in the X-CW position, the cathode voltage was 0.3 
to 0.4 VDC.


When I said I could adjust the bias voltage in the sideband X position, I 
didn't tell you that to do that I had to advance the transmitter gain 
control slightly to get 100 mA. But when I switched back to sideband non-X 
position, the current dropped to zero with no control by the bias knob on 
the AC-4.


I have pulled the one relay and opened it and cleaned the contacts with no 
change. Also cleaned the contacts on the second relay.


I have a power supply rebuild kit to install but the voltages appear to be 
okay and steady. I should probably order a new relay and try that.


If I adjust the bias pot to get -60 VDC, I have no idea what the bias 
current is, but I get plenty of power out, around 200 watts, so it seems to 
work , I just can't measure the current.


??
Richard


- Original Message - 
From: "Garey Barrell" 

To: "Donley" 
Cc: "Drakelist" 
Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Drakelist] TR-4C Bias Adjustment



Richard -

I've thought about this some more this afternoon, and I think the next 
step is to measure the PA voltages with the switches set per the manual 
and see WHAT is missing.


There aren't that many choices, ONE or more of the three are missing or 
incorrect.


Plate +650 VDC
Screen + 260 VDC
Grid ~ -60 VDC
Cathode ~ 0 VDC

73, Garey - K4OAH
Glen Allen, VA

Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line
and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs



Donley wrote:
"My guess is that either a KEY is plugged in and open, or the 'shorting' 
jack, isn't!   Try just
inserting a phone plug into the KEY jack several times to see if that 
shorting contact will close as
it should.  Otherwise just insert a shorted phone plug into the KEY 
jack."


Garey,

Been there, did that. The key is not plugged in but the jack is shorted 
as it should be. When set up according to the manual, there is no bias 
current indicated on the meter when adjusting the bias control, but there 
is adjustable voltage (around -60 VDC +/- adjustable) on the PA grids. If 
I switch the sideband back to the "X" position, there is current 
indicated and I can easily vary it with the bias control and get 100 mA. 
What is the difference in being in the "X" sideband or opposite sideband 
position? Both are done with no transmitter gain and I get current in the 
"X" position and not in the other. Maybe there is an open condition on 
the sideband switch when it is in the non "X" position.


Question - Is the bias current just plate current with no transmitter 
gain?


Thanks.
Richard
kc9ub




- Original Message - From: "Garey Barrell" 
To: "Donley" 
Cc: "Drakelist" 
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 11:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Drakelist] TR-4C Bias Adjustment



Richard -

I'm not sure I follow your description below.

1.  There is only ONE metering circuit, NO switching involved.  If it 
can read PLATE current it can also read BIAS current.


2.  26 V across the relay sounds low, but if it pulls in that can be 
left til later.


The manual says to switch the SIDEBAND switch counter-clockwise (the 
'non-X' position) and the MODE switch to X-CW.  I don't have a TR-4C set 
up at the moment, but I believe the KEY has to be closed.  IF you have a 
key plugged in, it must be shorted.  IF you do NOT have a key plugged 
in, there is a contact on the key jack that is 'supposed' to short the 
key. IF this contact does not MAKE properly you would see what I think 
you are describing.


The goal here is to put the transceiver into TRANSMIT mode (X-CW) with 
the 'non' X SIDEBAND selected and the MIC GAIN at minimum.  This should 
register the BIAS current of the PA stage since you're essentially in 
SSB with no audio applied, resulting in only the suppressed carrier and 
no PLATE current.


My guess is that either a KEY is plugged in and open, or the 'shorting' 
jack

Re: [Drakelist] TR-4C Bias Adjustment

[Donley]

"My guess is that either a KEY is plugged in and open, or the 'shorting' 
jack, isn't!   Try just
inserting a phone plug into the KEY jack several times to see if that 
shorting contact will close as

it should.  Otherwise just insert a shorted phone plug into the KEY jack."

Garey,

Been there, did that. The key is not plugged in but the jack is shorted as 
it should be. When set up according to the manual, there is no bias current 
indicated on the meter when adjusting the bias control, but there is 
adjustable voltage (around -60 VDC +/- adjustable) on the PA grids. If I 
switch the sideband back to the "X" position, there is current indicated and 
I can easily vary it with the bias control and get 100 mA. What is the 
difference in being in the "X" sideband or opposite sideband position? Both 
are done with no transmitter gain and I get current in the "X" position and 
not in the other. Maybe there is an open condition on the sideband switch 
when it is in the non "X" position.


Question - Is the bias current just plate current with no transmitter gain?

Thanks.
Richard
kc9ub




- Original Message - 
From: "Garey Barrell" 

To: "Donley" 
Cc: "Drakelist" 
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 11:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Drakelist] TR-4C Bias Adjustment



Richard -

I'm not sure I follow your description below.

1.  There is only ONE metering circuit, NO switching involved.  If it can 
read PLATE current it can also read BIAS current.


2.  26 V across the relay sounds low, but if it pulls in that can be left 
til later.


The manual says to switch the SIDEBAND switch counter-clockwise (the 
'non-X' position) and the MODE switch to X-CW.  I don't have a TR-4C set 
up at the moment, but I believe the KEY has to be closed.  IF you have a 
key plugged in, it must be shorted.  IF you do NOT have a key plugged in, 
there is a contact on the key jack that is 'supposed' to short the key. 
IF this contact does not MAKE properly you would see what I think you are 
describing.


The goal here is to put the transceiver into TRANSMIT mode (X-CW) with the 
'non' X SIDEBAND selected and the MIC GAIN at minimum.  This should 
register the BIAS current of the PA stage since you're essentially in SSB 
with no audio applied, resulting in only the suppressed carrier and no 
PLATE current.


My guess is that either a KEY is plugged in and open, or the 'shorting' 
jack, isn't!   Try just inserting a phone plug into the KEY jack several 
times to see if that shorting contact will close as it should.  Otherwise 
just insert a shorted phone plug into the KEY jack.


73, Garey - K4OAH
Glen Allen, VA

Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line
and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs



Donley wrote:
A few weeks ago I started working on putting a TR-4C back on the air. I 
posed a question about the bias adjustment. I finally got back to working 
on the transceiver and still have some questions. I have followed all the 
information that has been sent to other people with bias problems, but 
that info has not helped me.
My problem is that the bias current is not displayed or changed on the 
Plate Current meter when I adjust the bias control. I can measure and 
adjust the bias voltage on the final grids so I know the system is 
working, I just can't measure the current. I have done most of the 
suggested things: loosen and retighten most ground screws, pulled and 
checked all tubes and used Deoxit on the pins and reinserted multiple 
times to clean the pins and sockets and cleaned the contacts on the 
relays. The 48 volt relay only has 26 volts on the pins, but it appears 
to pull in okay and work. Is 26 volts normal?
Using the Drake manual instructions for bias adjust, no plate current 
reading is detected even though everything seems to be working. With the 
sideband switch in the clockwise position (opposite what the directions 
say) and transmitter gain full counterclockwise, I can adjust the plate 
current with the bias control. I also get full power output and can 
control the plate current with tuning and loading.
It seems everything is fine except being able to measure the bias current 
with the recommended setup procedure.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.
73
Richard
kc9ub





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[Drakelist] TR-4C Bias Adjustment

[Donley]

A few weeks ago I started working on putting a TR-4C back on the air. I posed a 
question about the bias adjustment. I finally got back to working on the 
transceiver and still have some questions. I have followed all the information 
that has been sent to other people with bias problems, but that info has not 
helped me.

My problem is that the bias current is not displayed or changed on the Plate 
Current meter when I adjust the bias control. I can measure and adjust the bias 
voltage on the final grids so I know the system is working, I just can't 
measure the current. I have done most of the suggested things: loosen and 
retighten most ground screws, pulled and checked all tubes and used Deoxit on 
the pins and reinserted multiple times to clean the pins and sockets and 
cleaned the contacts on the relays. The 48 volt relay only has 26 volts on the 
pins, but it appears to pull in okay and work. Is 26 volts normal?

Using the Drake manual instructions for bias adjust, no plate current reading 
is detected even though everything seems to be working. With the sideband 
switch in the clockwise position (opposite what the directions say) and 
transmitter gain full counterclockwise, I can adjust the plate current with the 
bias control. I also get full power output and can control the plate current 
with tuning and loading.

It seems everything is fine except being able to measure the bias current with 
the recommended setup procedure.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

73
Richard
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[Drakelist] TR-4C

[Donley]

I have pulled a TR-4C off the shelf, blown off a little dust and am trying to 
get it ready to put on the air. I know that I will have more questions but I 
want to start with the most important. When I try to adjust the bias current, I 
get no change in the current as I adjust the potentiometer. I think that it is 
working because I can tweak the bias pot when transmitting CW (dummy load) and 
the plate current changes indicating to me that the bias is changing. Am I 
correct in this assumption? Why doesn't the meter show the bias current?

I have used another AC-4 with same result on the TR-4C, and I have used both 
AC-4's with the B and C line transmitters and the bias adjust works perfectly.

Thanks.

Richard
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[Drakelist] test

[Donley]

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[Drakelist] Drake Crystals for 10 Meters

[Donley]

All of my past experience has been with three-band (80, 40 and 20 meter) 
transceivers so I know nothing of 10 meters. I am currently refurbishing Drake 
B and C line equipment which have crystals for 28.5 MHz only. There are crystal 
sockets to which the additional three 10 meter band crystals can be added.

My question is: Is it worth the cost to add three crystals to each set for 
complete 10 meter coverage? I know the improving sunspot cycle may help, but is 
there that much more activity on the missing segments?

73
Richard
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[Drakelist] Drake 26.1 MHz crystal for R-4C

[Donley]

Does anyone have a spare 26.1 MHz crystal (for 15.0 to 15.5 MHz R-4C) 
available. Please indicate condition and price plus shipping to 47429.

73
Richard
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Re: [Drakelist] R-4C Use as a receiver by itself

[Donley]

The manual for the R-4C apparently does not address the use of the receiver 
without connecting it to another Drake transmitter. Obviously the antenna 
and speaker jacks need to be connected but which other jacks need to be 
shorted (or not) to make the receiver work. I do not want to experiment 
without knowledge.


Richard
kc9ub 



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[Drakelist] Blue Filter Dials

[Donley]

Has anyone on the list repainted the "white" metal reflector behind the blue 
filter and diffuser to reinstate the white background? The yellowing of this 
white contributes to the green hue as many have stated. If repainted, any 
recommendations for paint choice?


Thanks.

Richard
kc9ub 



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[Drakelist] Blue Filters for B and C lines

[Donley]

What were the filter manufacturers and filter numbers for replacing the faded 
green filters on the B and C lines?

Richard
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[Drakelist] test

[Donley]

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[Drakelist] Drake TR-4C

[Donley]

I am trying to put my TR-4C back on the air after many years on the shelf. I 
have a few problems and questions for now. Maybe more later.

1. The bias adjustment procedure as listed in the manual does not work. The 
bias current reads close to zero and does not change with adjustment of the 
bias knob. This is true of two different power supplies that I have. Is the 
manual correct and what am I doing wrong?

2. The USB and LSB indicator lights are very dim and difficult to see in normal 
lighting. The bulbs seem to be bright enough but the red plastic lenses are 
eating up the light. Any fix for this?

3. The crystal calibrator works very nicely when adjusted to zero beat on the 
calibrated frequency. However, if I move away from the calibration point, the 
calibrator still has a steady signal at about 500 to 700 Hz (estimate only, my 
ears are shot). The signal goes away when I turn off the calibrator. Is this 
normal?

Thanks.

Richard
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Re: [Drakelist] Drakelist Digest, Vol 15, Issue 26 Blue filter

[Donley]

If one of the problems causing the green tint is the yellowing of the white 
plastic background, how does one eliminate the yellowing? Can it be scrubbed 
or sanded or what? I may be asking this prematurely. I have not yet opened 
the cabinet and looked at the plastic to see what could be done.


Richard
kc9ub


- Original Message - 
From: "AB2CF" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Drakelist] Drakelist Digest, Vol 15, Issue 26 Blue filter



According to a post by Garey K4OAH, Lee filter #172 is an exact match.
Check here
http://www.leefiltersusa.com/lighting/products/finder/act:colordetails/color
Ref:C4630710C6A172/

-Original Message-
From: drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net 
[mailto:drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net]

On Behalf Of drakelist-requ...@zerobeat.net
Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 9:28 AM
To: drakelist@zerobeat.net
Subject: Drakelist Digest, Vol 15, Issue 26

Send Drakelist mailing list submissions to
drakelist@zerobeat.net

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
"Re: Contents of Drakelist digest..."


Today's Topics:

  1. Lighting Filters Blue? (Paul Gerhardt)
  2. manuals wanted (AirRadio)
  3. Re: Lighting Filters Blue? (Kris Merschrod)
  4. Drake dial blue filter material (Walker)
  5. Re: Lighting Filters Blue? (Jim Shorney)
  6. Re: Lighting Filters Blue? (Curt Nixon)
  7. Re: Lighting Filters Blue? (Jim Shorney)
  8. Re: Lighting Filters Blue? (Gary Poland)
  9. Re: Lighting Filters Blue? (Curt Nixon)


--

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 14:18:02 -0400
From: Paul Gerhardt 
Subject: [Drakelist] Lighting Filters Blue?
To: drakelist@zerobeat.net
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Is there anything that is easy to find at say walmart or office depot that
one could use to make Blue filters out of for a B line?  I also need some
Red for my vintage "Raytrack 2000DX" Amplifier.

I see you can buy 'Lightning Gels' for about $1.29 ea in lots of colors 
for

'stage' use that are heat resistant but have to pay the usual S&H charges.
Just need some blue bits for my R4B and enough red for the tops of 2 
meters

maybe 1/2" X 3" or so...

Am thinking 'report covers' or something but not sure 

Thanks

Paul K3PG
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 19:31:43 +0100
From: "AirRadio" 
Subject: [Drakelist] manuals wanted
To: 
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Does anyone have some original manuals for the T-4XB, R-4B and the 
matching

AC-4 power supply they could sell me, cash waiting,
73 Max

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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 14:40:25 -0400
From: "Kris Merschrod" 
Subject: Re: [Drakelist] Lighting Filters Blue?
To: "Paul Gerhardt" , 
Message-ID: <6e00987b912c4f24b4243555db969...@staples0258pc>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Paul mentions "report Covers"  The back of my TR-4CWx manual has a sheet 
of

blue plastic that is bound in the spiral that covers white back cover.  I
often wonder what that is all about.  I have not seen that on other,
original, Drake manuals.  Has anyone else?  I guess that it could be cut 
up

for dials.

Kris KA2OIG
Merschrod
123 Warren Road
Ithaca, NY 14850
www.merschrod.net
 - Original Message -
 From: Paul Gerhardt
 To: drakelist@zerobeat.net
 Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 2:18 PM
 Subject: [Drakelist] Lighting Filters Blue?




 Is there anything that is easy to find at say walmart or office depot 
that

one could use to make Blue filters out of for a B line?  I also need some
Red for my vintage "Raytrack 2000DX" Amplifier.

 I see you can buy 'Lightning Gels' for about $1.29 ea in lots of colors
for 'stage' use that are heat resistant but have to pay the usual S&H
charges.  Just need some blue bits for my R4B and enough red for the tops 
of

2 meters maybe 1/2" X 3" or so...

 Am thinking 'report covers' or something but not sure 

 Thanks

 Paul K3PG


-

[Drakelist] Manual Problem

[Donley]

This is not really off topic because it deals with Drake manuals also. Many of 
the free manual copies on the internet were scanned on 8 1/2 by 11 size-limited 
scanners because they are inexpensive and work well. That leaves larger 
schematics (11 by 17) with two or three pages that have to be spliced.

Is there a software program that can stitch those pages back together to print 
an 11 by 17 for example. How about Adobe Acrobat? I have been trying to find 
out on their website but wading through all the 'select this or that and then 
wait', I can't figure it out.

Is there a quick answer?

Richard
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Re: [drakelist] DMM recommendation

[Donley]

I would be interested in seeing what info you have on the probe changes.

Dick
  - Original Message - 
  From: David & Chris Drake 
  To: drakelist@zerobeat.net 
  Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 9:44 AM
  Subject: Re: [drakelist] DMM recommendation


  FYI to the group
  I too have a heath VTVM that I use frequently for receiver alignment and 
other uses.  The probe is rarely included when you find one of the many 
versions (cosmetically) of pretty much the same design.  The probe designed for 
these VTVM's is not necessary.  The best thing to do is modify the input 
circuit, very simple to do.  Then when the main switch is turned from AC to DC 
to Ohms, you have the correct input impedance and blocking.  It makes the Heath 
as easy to use as the Simpson 260/270 series.  You simply buy a set of standard 
probes and a stereo 1/4 phone plug and wire the two leads to it.  I have the 
information here somewhere and can supply to anyone who wants.  Its also 
available on the internet.  
  David
  wd9cmd
- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: drakelist@zerobeat.net 
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 9:07 AM
Subject: Re: [drakelist] DMM recommendation


 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  You might want to keep your eyes open for one of the Heath VTVMs
Hi Garey,
And somewhere on the internet was rebuilding instructions (or have it done) 
for the probes I believe I found the article somehow through the drakelist.
Carl WD8NHK






Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in 
your area - Check out TourTracker.com!

Re: [drakelist] Drake Cabinet Screws

[Donley]

Hi John,

Thanks very much for the reply. After I sent the email request, I took my head 
out of the sand and went to the McMaster-Carr site and searched. I came up with 
Phillips Head screws at $5.28 per 100. I also came up with the slotted head 
version at $6.04 EACH. I emailed McMaster-Carr about the price, but haven't 
heard back yet.

I know there are some screws listed on ebay, but they are four times the cost 
of buying from McMaster-Carr. I will check the UK ebay site and see what I can 
find.

Thanks again.

Dick
KC9UB

  - Original Message - 
  From: John Stringer 
  To: drakelist@zerobeat.net 
  Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 3:26 PM
  Subject: RE: [drakelist] Drake Cabinet Screws


  There are some 4 line screws for sale in the ham radio section of ebay uk at 
this time.. John GI3KDR
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Donley
Sent: 08 July 2008 18:26
To: drakelist
Subject: [drakelist] Drake Cabinet Screws


Some time ago, someone suggested a McMaster-Carr replacement for the Drake 
cabinet screws. Does anyone on the list remember the part number?

Dick
KC9UB

Re: [drakelist] Drake Cabinet Screws

[Donley]

Hi Don,

Thanks for taking the time to reply. After I sent the question, I took my head 
out of the sand and went to the McMaster-Carr web site. I found what I needed. 
The slotted head screws were $6.04 EACH and the Phillips Head screws were $5.28 
PER 100. I know which ones I will use.

Thanks again.

Dick
KC9UB

  - Original Message - 
  From: Don Cunningham 
  To: drakelist@zerobeat.net 
  Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 3:49 PM
  Subject: Re: [drakelist] Drake Cabinet Screws


  Dick,
  McMaster-Carr had a RIDICULOUS price, like $5.60 EACH on the web site, and 
when questioned, said "that was the price, and checked correct".  I gave up 
after that.  I am SURE that was for a box of 50 or 100, but couldn't get them 
to budge.  Just search for pan head, slotted 1/4", black oxide screws and you 
should find them.  They may have "sobered up" by now, but it didn't look good 
for the Pakistani operatives answering their emails!!
  73,
  Don, WB5HAK
- Original Message - 
From: Donley 
To: drakelist 
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 12:26 PM
Subject: [drakelist] Drake Cabinet Screws


Some time ago, someone suggested a McMaster-Carr replacement for the Drake 
cabinet screws. Does anyone on the list remember the part number?

Dick
KC9UB
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Re: [drakelist] Drake Cabinet Screws

[Donley]

Hi Bill,

Thanks very much for the reply. After I sent the email request, I took my head 
out of the sand and went to the McMaster-Carr site and searched. I came up with 
the same part number that you have. I also came up with the slotted head 
version at $6.04 EACH. I emailed McMaster-Carr about the price, but haven't 
heard back yet.

I also would prefer the Phillips Head.

Thanks again for taking the time to respond.

Dick
KC9UB



  - Original Message - 
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: drakelist@zerobeat.net 
  Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 3:43 PM
  Subject: Re: [drakelist] Drake Cabinet Screws


  Dick:

  Machine Screws
  This product matches all of your selections.




  Part Number:  91249A144  $5.28 per Pack of 100



  Material Type:Stainless Steel, Finish: Black, Drive Style, Phillips, 6-32x1/4"

  The Phillips head screws are quite cheap, but beware of the regular screw 
driver head...they are like $4-$5 each..

  I personally prefer the phillips head, harder for the screw driver to slip 
off and scratch the paint.

  73's

  Bill W6FF
  Santa Barbara, Ca.













  **
  Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.
  (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut000507) 

[drakelist] Drake Cabinet Screws

[Donley]

Some time ago, someone suggested a McMaster-Carr replacement for the Drake 
cabinet screws. Does anyone on the list remember the part number?

Dick
KC9UB

Re: [drakelist] Tubes for Drakes

[Donley]

I would be interested in a list.

Dickdonley.r  at  insightbb  dot  com
  - Original Message - 
  From: Thomas Wright 
  To: Drakelist 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 2:12 PM
  Subject: [drakelist] Tubes for Drakes


  Before I listed these on ePay I thought I'd offer these to you guys here.  I 
have 43 tubes in inventory I kept for my Drake TR-4C, and since I no longer 
have the Drake I thought someone else would want these spares.  Most of these 
appear new, but about a third of them are used.  I do not have a tester, except 
for my TR-4C when I had it, and I had tested quite a few of these, new and 
used, in the Drake to assure they were good.  I never found a weak or dead one, 
but that's not to say they're all good.  I just don't know for sure and it's 
not worth buying a tester.  If you'd like a list just email me and I'll send 
you the pdf file and a photo.

[drakelist] L-4B 0.82 ohm resistor

[Donley]

What is so special about this resistor? Would a 1.0 ohm 2 watt carbon resistor 
work as well?

Dick

[drakelist] AC Voltage Regulators (Regulating Transformers)

[Donley]

If I use an AC voltage regulator with my Drake equipment, this won't be an off 
topic subject. However, the Drake equipment regulates itself just fine.

I have a Shape Magnetronics Inc (Addison, IL) regulating transformer, catalog 
number W2136, that is supposed to regulate output voltage to 120 volts with 
input varying between 102 and 130 volts AC. I don't know enough to make it work.

1. Can anyone recommend a tutorial source for schematics and operating theory 
on regulating transformers?

2. How about a source for the schematic and operating theory for the W2136? I 
have tried locating the company but they are no longer in existence or they 
have changed their name. It could possibly be Shape LLC. I sent an email to 
them to find out.

3. The W2136 has four terminals that are used - H1, H2, X1 and X2. It is not 
intuitively clear to me which is input and which is output. H1 to H2 is about 
1.6 ohms. X1 to X2 reads about 2.0 ohms. Any H to X reading is open as I would 
expect. There is also a capacitor somewhere in the circuit, I can't tell where.

4. When I got the W2136, H1 and X1 were tied together, and using H or X for 
input got nasty hum at low voltages (I am using a variac to bring the voltage 
up slowly). Why would one side of the input and output be tied together?

5. If it was working properly, what output voltage could I expect with no load, 
if I was bringing the unit up slowly on a variac? Say, 30 volts in, what 
voltage out? When does regulation start?

A lot of questions but I have no experience using a regulator.

Dick

Re: [drakelist] WTB: MN-4 or MN-2000

[Donley]

"Donley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> made an utterance to the drakelist gang
--
I hate to jump on the bandwagon and become one of the additional 50 messages 
but want to add some more information. The seller in question has "a 
feedback score of over 6,100". His actual positive feedback numbers are over 
10,600. This means he has had many repeat customers who were obviously 
satisfied and whose second or third positive feedback reports do not count 
toward the feedback score. I have bought a couple of items from him and have 
been satisfied, but I was always skeptical of his claims.


Ebay allows only one positive from a buyer to apply to the feedback score. 
If a buyer left positive feedback for a first purchase and was unhappy with 
a second purchase, I don't know how ebay would record that second purchase 
if the buyer left a negative response.


In any case, the positive score is much higher than 6,100.

Just my two cents.

Dick


- Original Message - 
From: "Garey Barrell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: [drakelist] WTB: MN-4 or MN-2000




Garey Barrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> made an utterance to the drakelist 
gang

--
I hope this isn't going to deteriorate into another 50 messages about what 
a bad guy he is...


Obviously he has been less than honorable in some of his descriptions, but 
with over 6000 transactions he still has less than 3% dissatisfied 
customers.  Most businesses would kill for a reputation like that.  It's 
obvious he sells AND buys on EBay, and definitely has a hucksters talents, 
not to mention an ad-writer's expertise.  The fact is that he offers a LOT 
of Drake gear, and has done the work of unearthing it and placing it where 
someone who might want it can find it.  Like it or not, this is probably 
the biggest single factor in the success of EBay.  Most people don't have 
the time to search for the one item they want by going to garage sales, 
hamfests, flea markets and/or watching EBay minute by minute.


Personally, I have bought two or three items from him, and while I admit I 
was careful to ask for and receive his "high resolution" photos of the 
only equipment I bought from him, and specifically confirmed that the item 
in the photo was the item I was bidding on, I found him quick to respond 
to messages.  After the auction, I paid, the item was packed properly and 
shipped promptly.


The other items were smaller, less complicated, but again were as 
described, packed properly and shipped promptly.  Perhaps I've just been 
lucky, but I can't complain.


Regardless, I think there have been enough dire warnings to caution anyone 
who might be tempted to deal with him, to be careful.  I've also bought 
items at hamfests which I found were not quite as described when I got 
them home!!


73, Garey - K4OAH
Glen Allen, VA

Drake 2-B, 4-B & C-Line Service Supplement CDs




Rich Carter wrote:
I've never had the pleasure of dealing with the business in question.  I 
would advise refraining from personal attacks on this list.  I also 
suggest that you avoid legal exposure that this kind of thing provides. 
If you feel compelled to inform us of a potential problem with sellers on 
ebay, you might make an indirect reference such as "a certain celler who 
states that everything is Excellent."

 Just my 2cents.
 Regards
Rich



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Re: [drakelist] Somewhat OT: Experiment

[Donley]

"Donley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> made an utterance to the drakelist gang
--
Mark,

I have heard a lot of complaints about the shipping costs being excessive if 
the seller uses the ebay shipping calculator. Many sellers have been made 
aware of the discrepancy and tell bidders to disregard the shipping estimate 
and that they will calculate the actual shipping cost when the auction is 
over. It is always a good idea to question the shipping costs before 
bidding. I don't think your seller lost any money on shipping. The estimated 
shipping cost, if paid by the buyer would go directly to the sellers 
account, not to ebay.


Dick
KC9UB



- Original Message - 
From: "Mark Pilant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 2:06 PM
Subject: Re: [drakelist] Somewhat OT: Experiment




Mark Pilant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> made an utterance to the drakelist 
gang

--
Thank you all very much.

Here was the motivation for the experiment...

I just recently purchased a TR-3/RV-3/AC-3/W-7 on eBay, and the
the shopping costs were shown as $44.00.  I assumed, since I had
know reason to think otherwise, this what what the seller specified
for shipping charges.  I was a little surprised when the actual
shipping charges came in at $120.00.  (I have always sold items
specifying the buyer will bay the actual shipping charges.)

We agreed to split the difference (of $44 and $120) and all went
well.  However, I got to thinking the shipping costs might be
generated by eBay.  It appears this is the case.

So I just sent the seller the remaining shipping amount to make sure
everything was square; and he did not get the short end of eBay's
"friendly" shipping cost "estimate".


So I guess the bottom line is to make sure, if it is not explicitly
stated in the auction, to confirm with the seller what the actual
shipping costs are.

Thank you all for your time and help with my experiment.

73

- Mark  N1VQW


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Re: [drakelist] Somewhat OT: Experiment

[Donley]

"Donley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> made an utterance to the drakelist gang
--
Mark,

I am in Ellettsville, IN and the shipping charge is $42.65.

Dick

- Original Message - 
From: "Mark Pilant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 1:42 PM
Subject: [drakelist] Somewhat OT: Experiment




Mark Pilant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> made an utterance to the drakelist 
gang

--
Greetings.

I'm looking for a kind soul, with an eBay account, to look up the 
following:


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190182360471

which just happens to be a Drake TR-7; to keep things somewhat on topic.

I am interested in what you see shown for shipping costs.  I'm in NH and
it shows $48.66.

Thanks in advance.

73

- Mark  N1VQW

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[drakelist] Vacuum Tube markings

[Donley]

When restoring a tube type radio, the restoration looks better when the tubes 
are nice and shiny. But cleaning tubes is hazardous to tube identification. The 
markings usually come off easier than the dirt.

What are recommended methods of cleaning tubes?

Also, is there a method of reading the markings on tubes that have been smudged 
or with partially or totally removed markings? I seem to recall someone 
mentioning that the markings slightly etch the glass and there is a way to make 
the markings identifiable. Was I dreaming?

If there is no way to identify an unmarked tube, what good is it?

Dick
KC9UB 

Re: [drakelist] Not a Drake question.

[Donley]

"Donley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> made an utterance to the drakelist gang
--
Garey and Lee,

I also learned a lot here. If I had Googled the Tee M358 number listed in 
the manual, I would have learned that it is in fact a standard Amphenol UHF 
Tee available for about $4.00. Also, the manual shows the detector connected 
directly to the Tee so there is no coax between the two. There is coaxial 
cable between the detector and display unit. Am I correct in thinking that 
cable could just be low frequency audio cable?


Dick
KC9UB



- Original Message - 
From: "Garey Barrell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: [drakelist] Not a Drake question.




Garey Barrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> made an utterance to the drakelist 
gang

--
Live and learn!

I assume you keep the Tee coax as short as possible.

73, Garey - K4OAH
Glen Allen, VA

Drake 2-B, 4-B & C-Line Service Supplement CDs




[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The tee connector is a standard UHF tee, female/female/male (aka M358). 
All attenuation and protection of the HA8 takes place in the diode 
detector.  Simple to put together using a  "Pomona" box or surplus 
adapter box.


73
Lee WB6SSW



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[drakelist] Not a Drake question.

[Donley]

This is not a Drake related question but when submitted to the Hallicrafters 
group, it got no response.


I have acquired a Hallicrafters HA-8 Splatter Guard (Choice name for a pseudo 
modulation monitor) minus the detector and interconnecting coaxial 'TEE'. It 
looks like a simple matter to build a detector but I have a question about the 
'TEE'.

Is it just a simple UHF 'TEE' connector or is there some attenuation built in 
to the original 'TEE'?

If it is just a standard UHF TEE connector, it seems like full transmitter 
power will be applied to the detector. Could this damage the detector or the 
HA-8?

Dick
KC9UB

Re: [drakelist] Power tubes for T-4XB-C, TR-4C

[Donley]

"Donley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> made an utterance to the drakelist gang
--
Garey,

Thank you very much for the information. You have kept me from making a 
mistake in purchasing 6KM6's from the auction site 'expert'. I will look for 
the brands that you recommended. Thanks again.


Dick


- Original Message - 
From: "Garey Barrell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 3:38 PM
Subject: Re: [drakelist] Power tubes for T-4XB-C, TR-4C




Garey Barrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> made an utterance to the drakelist 
gang

--
Dick -

You have it right.  Try and get three (or two) of the same brand together. 
Preferred tubes are Sylvania, Zenith, RCA and GE in that order.  All 
Zenith branded tubes were manufactured by Sylvania.  There are "some" that 
will not work without modification of the neutralization circuitry in the 
transmitter, but these are not always "brand specific" since many tubes 
were cross branded.  I have had specific problems with Westinghouse and 
Raytheon branded tubes.  The "generic" brands that came late in tube 
production are suspect since there is no way to know who made them, almost 
certainly NOT the name on the tube.


The 6KM6 is not a particularly good sub.  It has considerably different 
interelement capacitances, Plate resistance and Transconductance, each of 
which "could" be a problem for stability.  Certainly not in the TR-4 
series, since the filament current for the 'KM is 1.6A vs the 1.2A for the 
'JB, and the filaments of the TR-4 are a series/parallel combination. 
There are a lot of "recommendations" on the auction sites that serve 
no-one except the seller.!


The best substitute I have found to work consistently, following the same 
brand limitations above, is the 6GJ5/A.   It is an  _identical_  tube with 
the single exception that the Suppressor grid is connected to the cathode 
internally rather than being brought out to Pin 8 as in the 'JB.  Since 
the Drake transmitter finals are operated in Class AB1, grounded cathode; 
and Pin 8 of the socket is grounded, the 'GJ is a drop-in replacement.


73, Garey - K4OAH
Glen Allen, VA

Drake 2-B, 4-B & C-Line Service Supplement CDs




Donley wrote:
I have seen some comment on power amplifier tubes for the above Drake 
transmitters, but I would like some definitive information. My T-4XB uses 
6JB6 and the T-4XC and TR-4C use 6JB6A's. I do not know the brand names 
on the current tubes as I have had no need to open the cases.
 1. The 6JB6-6JB6A should be interchangeable as long as all tubes are the 
same in one transmitter?
 2. I believe I remember that Sylvania was the tube of choice? Are there 
any other manufacturers' tubes that will work satisfactorily? Are there 
any that absolutely will not work?
 3. Are there any substitutes (6KM6) that will work? I have seen 6KM6's 
on the auction site that are claimed to be excellent substitutes.
 4. If this has been hashed out before, please tell me and point me to 
the archives.

 Thanks.
 Dick
KC9UB



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[drakelist] Power tubes for T-4XB-C, TR-4C

[Donley]

I have seen some comment on power amplifier tubes for the above Drake 
transmitters, but I would like some definitive information. My T-4XB uses 6JB6 
and the T-4XC and TR-4C use 6JB6A's. I do not know the brand names on the 
current tubes as I have had no need to open the cases.

1. The 6JB6-6JB6A should be interchangeable as long as all tubes are the same 
in one transmitter?

2. I believe I remember that Sylvania was the tube of choice? Are there any 
other manufacturers' tubes that will work satisfactorily? Are there any that 
absolutely will not work?

3. Are there any substitutes (6KM6) that will work? I have seen 6KM6's on the 
auction site that are claimed to be excellent substitutes.

4. If this has been hashed out before, please tell me and point me to the 
archives.

Thanks.

Dick
KC9UB

[drakelist] Electronic Keyers

[Donley]

A few days ago there was a thread going about using Iambic keyers with various 
types of transmitters. While I have no interest in iambic keying, I do have 
interest in regular two paddle keying with a recently acquired Hallicrafters 
HA-1.

Is there a standard practice for a right handed person to thumb the dots and 
index finger the dashes? I don't want to learn one way and go to someone else's 
shack and be backwards.

Dick
KC9UB

Re: [drakelist] IRC .82ohm 2W SPH resistor

[Donley]

Mike,

If you bought a bunch of these resistors for resale, count me in for purchasing 
four or five spares from you.

Dick
KC9UB
  - Original Message - 
  From: Mike Bryce 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 2:03 PM
  Subject: Re: [drakelist] IRC .82ohm 2W SPH resistor


  the reason is not really clear..


  but here goes


  if there is a fault in one or both of the tubes, or a short circuit someplace 
on the +2700 volt line 


  this resistor acts like a fuse and pops open.


  the problem is that nasty 2700 volts! 


  as the resistor opens up, the voltage will simply jump over the now 
carbonized resistor.


  in fact, it would be more accurate to call it a high voltage fuse instead of 
a resistor!


  aside from the voltage it has to carry, it must be able to conduct the 
necessary current as well.


  that's why is a special critter... and very hard to come by.


  perhaps I could purchase some from the one company via my heathkit shop since 
they won't sell to anyone not in the trade??






  Mike, WB8VGE

  SunLight Energy Systems

  The Heathkit Shop

  http://www.theheathkitshop.com/

  J e e p

  o|||o 

  Note: No trees were killed in the sending of this message, but a large number 
of electrons were terribly inconvenienced





  On Nov 6, 2007, at 1:42 PM, Tom Bowman wrote:

  Hi,

  Where is the resistor being used in the circuit?

  Any idea why a 1 Ohm, 5% SPH resistor 66-SPH1R00JLF Mouser, would not work?

  73, 

  tom, WA3REY


  On Nov 6, 2007 12:49 PM, MT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Re: [drakelist] Color stripe on Carrier Oscillator and BFO crystals in T-4XB and R-4B

[Donley]

"Donley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> made an utterance to the drakelist gang
--
Garey,

Please disregard my last email. Of course it is the Carrier Oscillator 
crystal in the transmitter that would be striped, not the band selection 
crystals.


Dick


- Original Message - 
From: "Garey Barrell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 11:22 PM
Subject: Re: [drakelist] Color stripe on Carrier Oscillator and BFO crystals 
in T-4XB and R-4B





Garey Barrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> made an utterance to the drakelist 
gang

--
Dick -

Well, you're certainly welcome to disagree, but I "was there"!  :-)

They were never mentioned in the manuals, but the program was initiated 
when Drake tired of the complaints about the Transceive Align procedure 
not "holding" over time.  They determined that the primary cause of the 
"drift" was variations in the tempco of the crystals, and initiated an 
internal test setup to "select" crystals with similar temperature 
characteristics from their regular stock.  They were graded into three 
different groups and a paint stripe was applied.  I have seen at least two 
units with "Y" serial suffixes and a Yellow stripe.  They must have been 
real "outliers"!  As I said earlier, it only becomes a problem when you 
transceive on SSB because 50 Hz variations or even less are audible, 
whereas on CW it's barely noticeable.  Also, CW ops are much more tolerant 
of slight frequency differences, AND seldom operated transceive anyway!


Back then, Drake would exchange the crystals at no charge to allow you to 
get a "matched" set, and dealers were instructed to sell matched pairs 
when they were purchased together.  I was selling Drake (and Collins, 
etc.) at the time as a "part time" job after my "day job" at NASA.  The 
program started with the third version of the R-4A, and crystals were 
exchanged with T-4X owners.  I don't think the serial number suffix was 
added to any T-4X transmitters, at least I've never run across one, but 
I've seen more than a few with color striped crystals in them.  When the B 
series came out in mid to late 1967, they all had s/n suffix letters from 
the factory.


The only problem with mismatched crystals is variation in the Transceive 
Alignment when the room temperature changes and/or as the pair warm up 
from a cold start.  A "worst case" mismatch, which I believe is the 
Red/Blue combination, would actually change during a long transmission 
from the additional heat dissipated in the transmitter.  Again, it was 
only noticeable on SSB transceive.  Most one-on-one contacts in those days 
wouldn't mention a problem, unless it was a "round-table" group with 
several participants, and nowadays most everyone is using a transceiver 
with RIT and they just follow.  I'm surprised you haven't been accosted by 
one of the "channelized" guys who don't dare operate anywhere but on a 
frequency ending in 0.00!  :-)


The problem was resolved completely when the C Line came out by adding one 
more cable between units to enable a sort of phase-lock between the two 
oscillators.


73, Garey - K4OAH
Glen Allen, VA

Drake 2-B, 4-B & C-Line Service Supplement CDs




Donley wrote:


"Donley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> made an utterance to the drakelist gang
--
Garey and all other Drakelist members,

Below are two quotes from previous emails:

'The letters are a color code for the Carrier Oscillator and BFO crystals 
in the Tx and Rx.  Ideally, the letters (and color stripes on the 
crystals themselves, CHECK!) are the same in Tx and Rx.'


'I want to transceive with this pair so the color code is  important. The 
R-4B has a red stripe on a crystal next to the crystal calibrator  under 
the chassis. None of the other crystals are color coded. And the T-4XB 
has a red stripe on one of five crystals under the chassis.'


I want to mildly disagree with the concept of these two statements. I say 
mildly disagree because I am not completely sure of myself, but will list 
my objections (there are only two).


I don't see the importance of matching the color stripe of the Tx and R. 
I would think that the Tx or R unit would be tested individually for 
drift (+, - or 0) and the appropriate TC compensating crystal would be 
inserted to minimize that drift (- TC for + drift,+ TC for minus drift or 
0 TC for 0 or minimal drift). This would insure minimum drift in either 
unit. So shouldn't any Tx transceive with any R?


Secondly, I can find no reference in the Drake manuals to the requirement 
of

Re: [drakelist] Color stripe on Carrier Oscillator and BFO crystals in T-4XB and R-4B

[Donley]

"Donley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> made an utterance to the drakelist gang
--
Garey,

Remember, I said 'mildly disagree' based on age and memory or lack of 
memory. Thanks very much for the further information and for verifying that 
it did not get into the manuals. It seems as though Drake would have to 
select all five crystals for the transmitters. Did they do that and only 
stripe one of the crystals in the set? I have not yet opened my T-4XB and 
R-4B to verify that the crystals match the letter after the serial number. I 
also have a C-line set that I use more often, so have not been too concerned 
about the B-line.


Thanks again for the explanation.

73
Dick
KC9UB

- Original Message - 
From: "Garey Barrell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 11:22 PM
Subject: Re: [drakelist] Color stripe on Carrier Oscillator and BFO crystals 
in T-4XB and R-4B





Garey Barrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> made an utterance to the drakelist 
gang

--
Dick -

Well, you're certainly welcome to disagree, but I "was there"!  :-)

They were never mentioned in the manuals, but the program was initiated 
when Drake tired of the complaints about the Transceive Align procedure 
not "holding" over time.  They determined that the primary cause of the 
"drift" was variations in the tempco of the crystals, and initiated an 
internal test setup to "select" crystals with similar temperature 
characteristics from their regular stock.  They were graded into three 
different groups and a paint stripe was applied.  I have seen at least two 
units with "Y" serial suffixes and a Yellow stripe.  They must have been 
real "outliers"!  As I said earlier, it only becomes a problem when you 
transceive on SSB because 50 Hz variations or even less are audible, 
whereas on CW it's barely noticeable.  Also, CW ops are much more tolerant 
of slight frequency differences, AND seldom operated transceive anyway!


Back then, Drake would exchange the crystals at no charge to allow you to 
get a "matched" set, and dealers were instructed to sell matched pairs 
when they were purchased together.  I was selling Drake (and Collins, 
etc.) at the time as a "part time" job after my "day job" at NASA.  The 
program started with the third version of the R-4A, and crystals were 
exchanged with T-4X owners.  I don't think the serial number suffix was 
added to any T-4X transmitters, at least I've never run across one, but 
I've seen more than a few with color striped crystals in them.  When the B 
series came out in mid to late 1967, they all had s/n suffix letters from 
the factory.


The only problem with mismatched crystals is variation in the Transceive 
Alignment when the room temperature changes and/or as the pair warm up 
from a cold start.  A "worst case" mismatch, which I believe is the 
Red/Blue combination, would actually change during a long transmission 
from the additional heat dissipated in the transmitter.  Again, it was 
only noticeable on SSB transceive.  Most one-on-one contacts in those days 
wouldn't mention a problem, unless it was a "round-table" group with 
several participants, and nowadays most everyone is using a transceiver 
with RIT and they just follow.  I'm surprised you haven't been accosted by 
one of the "channelized" guys who don't dare operate anywhere but on a 
frequency ending in 0.00!  :-)


The problem was resolved completely when the C Line came out by adding one 
more cable between units to enable a sort of phase-lock between the two 
oscillators.


73, Garey - K4OAH
Glen Allen, VA

Drake 2-B, 4-B & C-Line Service Supplement CDs




Donley wrote:


"Donley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> made an utterance to the drakelist gang
--
Garey and all other Drakelist members,

Below are two quotes from previous emails:

'The letters are a color code for the Carrier Oscillator and BFO crystals 
in the Tx and Rx.  Ideally, the letters (and color stripes on the 
crystals themselves, CHECK!) are the same in Tx and Rx.'


'I want to transceive with this pair so the color code is  important. The 
R-4B has a red stripe on a crystal next to the crystal calibrator  under 
the chassis. None of the other crystals are color coded. And the T-4XB 
has a red stripe on one of five crystals under the chassis.'


I want to mildly disagree with the concept of these two statements. I say 
mildly disagree because I am not completely sure of myself, but will list 
my objections (there are only two).


I don't see the importance of matching the color strip

[drakelist] Color stripe on Carrier Oscillator and BFO crystals in T-4XB and R-4B

[Donley]

"Donley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> made an utterance to the drakelist gang
--
Garey and all other Drakelist members,

Below are two quotes from previous emails:

'The letters are a color code for the Carrier Oscillator and BFO crystals in 
the Tx and Rx.  Ideally, the letters (and color stripes on the crystals 
themselves, CHECK!) are the same in Tx and Rx.'


'I want to transceive with this pair so the color code is  important. The 
R-4B has a red stripe on a crystal next to the crystal calibrator  under the 
chassis. None of the other crystals are color coded. And the T-4XB has a red 
stripe on one of five crystals under the chassis.'


I want to mildly disagree with the concept of these two statements. I say 
mildly disagree because I am not completely sure of myself, but will list my 
objections (there are only two).


I don't see the importance of matching the color stripe of the Tx and R. I 
would think that the Tx or R unit would be tested individually for drift 
(+, - or 0) and the appropriate TC compensating crystal would be inserted to 
minimize that drift (- TC for + drift,+ TC for minus drift or 0 TC for 0 or 
minimal drift). This would insure minimum drift in either unit. So shouldn't 
any Tx transceive with any R?


Secondly, I can find no reference in the Drake manuals to the requirement of 
matching Tx and R colors. In fact, I can find no reference to the color 
stripe at all in the manuals that I have.


This concept would have put a burden on the seller and buyer of Drake 4B 
series Tx and R to match the color designation at purchase. I don't recall 
(remember it was 30 to 40 years ago) any mention then of this concept. I 
have the 4B series Tx and R with two different color striped crystals, B for 
the T-4XB and G for the R-4B and do not notice any problems in transceive.


I do recall seeing written information recently about the color coded 
crystals, but I can't remember where. (I just found that article and it was 
written by you, Garey).


I will bow to those of more expertise than I have and stand by for any 
comments.


Remember, I said mildly disagree.

73
Dick
KC9UB




- Original Message - 
From: "Garey Barrell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: [drakelist] Any disadvantages to using R-4A with T-4XB?




Garey Barrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> made an utterance to the drakelist 
gang

--
Wow!  Talk about decisions.  :-)

Both of your receivers are VERY "late" in their respective groups.  Your 
R-4A is close enough to actually count the tubes.  It "should" have 13 
tubes, and therefore the tube type PD, but Drake wasn't always "perfect" 
when it came to model changeovers.  So I'd be very interested in how many 
tubes are in your R-4A, just for refining my data.


There is an article on the WB4HFN site, but that was also from 40 year old 
memory also.  I "think" the Red crystals were positive TC, the Green were 
near zero TC and the Blue were negative TC.  The same color in R an T is 
ideal, but if I have the colors right you have a positive and zero 
combination with the R-4B.  The R-4A could be better or worse, since all 
Drake did was characterize their standard crystals in-house, and we have 
no idea what group the R-4A crystal would have fallen into!  :-)  I asked 
Bill Frost at Drake about this a few years ago, and he had even forgotten 
that they "had" color coded crystals


Best is to set them up, and try them for a while.  Depending upon how 
stable your shack temperature is, and how long you let them warm up before 
use, etc., you might not have a significant problem.  You could try a 
"want" for someone with a mismatched pair to swap your G for an R or your 
R for a G if you find it to be a problem.  A hint.  You can get an 
Xcelite 3324 screwdriver which is long enough to reach the C61 adjustment 
in the receiver without removing the cabinet top.  If it's not quite long 
enough, you can shave a bit off the blade end of the handle.  After you 
put it through the "proper" hole in the cabinet top, slip a piece of 
aquarium airline tubing over the blade end and fit it to the C61 adjuster. 
You can probably figure out why I did this 40 years ago!!  :-)


My choice, assuming the general condition of the two receivers is similar, 
would be the R-4B.  The "above the belt" lettering on the A is difficult 
to see in normal lighting at best, the same for the slanted kC dial, and 
the PTO in use light is handy.  The cabinet paint on the B is tougher 
also.  Actually, if it was me, I'd keep them both, which is why I have a 
couple dozen 4 Line boxes   :-)


73, Garey - K4OAH
Glen Alle

Re: [drakelist] New bill in Oklahoma

[Donley]

What you are missing is the reference to 47 C.F.R., Section 97.15(b) which is 
the FCC rule. It specifically mentions that HOA's and CC&R's are private 
contracts and not subject to FCC regulation.


B. A municipal ordinance regulating amateur radio antenna or amateur radio 
antenna support structures shall comply with the requirements of 47 C.F.R., 
Section 97.15(b), as amended from time to time, by allowing for the erection of 
an amateur radio antenna or an amateur radio antenna support structure at a 
height and dimension sufficient to accommodate amateur radio service 
communications.


Dick




  - Original Message - 
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 11:34 AM
  Subject: Re: [drakelist] New bill in Oklahoma


  Jim,
  Some of us looked at this bill... don't see anything that would effect 
HOA's???
  What are we missing?
  73,
  Lee


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  Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour 

Re: [drakelist] New bill in Oklahoma

[Donley]

The full bill can be found at

http://wyomcases.courts.state.wy.us/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?CiteID=449171

The pertinent information is in Section 3, Paragraph B:

B. A municipal ordinance regulating amateur radio antenna or amateur radio 
antenna support structures shall comply with the requirements of 47 C.F.R., 
Section 97.15(b), as amended from time to time, by allowing for the erection of 
an amateur radio antenna or an amateur radio antenna support structure at a 
height and dimension sufficient to accommodate amateur radio service 
communications.

It deals with 'municipal' ordinances only and makes no mention of HOA's and 
CC&R's.

Dick
KC9UB

 
  - Original Message - 
  From: James B Davis 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 10:48 AM
  Subject: RE: [drakelist] New bill in Oklahoma


  Lee,

   

  I guess the best thing would be to try and look up the bill on Google. That's 
how I found the article that the ARRL issued about it.

   

  Jim/NW5F

   

  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]
  Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 9:31 AM
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: [drakelist] New bill in Oklahoma

   

  Jim,
  Where do I find the details of the bill that say it overrides HOA?
  Lee


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  Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
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Re: [drakelist] New bill in Oklahoma

[Donley]

Lee,

Indiana passed the PRB-1 law effective July 1, 2003. It does not override HOA 
agreements or CC&R agreements. These are considered private contracts and not 
subject to Federal intervention. The PRB-1 law deals with local municipality 
and zoning and planning boards that says they have to reasonably accommodate 
the amateur antenna, but only if you are not affected by HOA or CC&R.

The ARRL knows very well what is going on with antenna regulations. Visit their 
website for all kinds of information on how to go about dealing with zoning 
entities. They have all the information available about the currently 23 states 
that have such laws and are aware of and tracking other states in the process 
of enacting PRB-1 laws.

Dick
KC9UB

  - Original Message - 
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 8:17 AM
  Subject: Re: [drakelist] New bill in Oklahoma


  Jim,
  Just call ARRL's main number and ask who to talk to about it
  It would be very helpful to know to whole story on how this all came about... 
it may be something we can take to each state Gov. OR may be congess?

  73,
  Lee


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