Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
On Wed, 4 Jan 2012 21:18:49 -0500, Steve Wedge wrote: >Yeah, but Klinger had more style... Ah, but Klinger stopped wearing dresses when he became company clerk. 73 -Jim (not a cross-dresser, just a modder) -- Ham Radio NU0C Lincoln, Nebraska, U.S.S.A. TR7/RV7/R7A/L7, TR6/RV6, T4XC/R4C/L4B, NCL2000, SB104A, R390A, GT550A/RV550A, HyGain 3750, IBM PS/2 - all vintage, all the time! "Give a man a URL, and he will learn for an hour; teach him to Google, and he will learn for a lifetime." HyGain 3750 User's Group - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HyGain_3750/ http://incolor.inetnebr.com/jshorney http://www.nebraskaghosts.org ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
Yeah, but Klinger had more style... Steve Wedge, W1ES/4 "I can't complain, but sometimes I still do." - Joe Walsh If the above message appears, it came from Steve's Son of Laptop! - Original Message - From: "Jim Shorney" To: Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 11:58 PM Subject: Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 21:04:07 -0500 (EST), kc9...@aol.com wrote: Why invent the wheel...but as they say...go for it if it trips your trigger. By the time you buy all the parts...you won't save much. Maybe you missed the part about FUN! And the sense of accomplishment. Parts are cheap. Especially if you went to the Radar O'Rielly school of procurement. 73 -Jim -- Ham Radio NU0C Lincoln, Nebraska, U.S.S.A. TR7/RV7/R7A/L7, TR6/RV6, T4XC/R4C/L4B, NCL2000, SB104A, R390A, GT550A/RV550A, HyGain 3750, IBM PS/2 - all vintage, all the time! "Give a man a URL, and he will learn for an hour; teach him to Google, and he will learn for a lifetime." HyGain 3750 User's Group - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HyGain_3750/ http://incolor.inetnebr.com/jshorney http://www.nebraskaghosts.org ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
On Mon, 2 Jan 2012 19:28:29 -0600, Don Cunningham wrote: >The braid mod you mentioned was a Drake factory fix to >a problem found. There are many such things Drake put out to fix known >engineering oversights. That brings up the point that even "factory mods" can be poor engineering. Case in point, the Drake-published "all-band transmit" mod for the TR-7 that disables the PLL out-of-lock signal. I can see Drake wanting a quick and simple mod for screwdriver jockeys in the field, but it's just plain bad, and there is a better way. And speaking of bad mods, DrakeMod6 needs to be corrected to remove the advice to reverse the direction FA-7! I proved that this was a bad mod two years ago, but it's still out there and people still believe it. 73 -Jim -- Ham Radio NU0C Lincoln, Nebraska, U.S.S.A. TR7/RV7/R7A/L7, TR6/RV6, T4XC/R4C/L4B, NCL2000, SB104A, R390A, GT550A/RV550A, HyGain 3750, IBM PS/2 - all vintage, all the time! "Give a man a URL, and he will learn for an hour; teach him to Google, and he will learn for a lifetime." HyGain 3750 User's Group - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HyGain_3750/ http://incolor.inetnebr.com/jshorney http://www.nebraskaghosts.org ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
Thank you both for the comments and the affirmation. Yes, it is indeed the Owner of the radio that determines the best for him and for his needs. I marvel at the asking price for the Sherwood R4c radios. I do not know if they get the for that cost, but for me at my time, what money I put into my radios enhanced my dedication to them, not destroyed it. I was aware of the braid issue, yet many would say if it did not have it from the factory that it was "wrong" to fix a broken radio!. Thanks for your gentle reply. As I age I see the huge variety of answers to such a simple question that Max proposed. David Assaf, III W5XU -Original Message- From: Don Cunningham [mailto:d...@martineer.net] Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 7:28 PM To: David; drakelist@zerobeat.net Subject: Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods David, I think you will find that in any group. One group will ONLY stay stock, even going so far as to gut and "re-stuff" paper caps with new poly caps, remelting beeswax back in the ends! The other group to the other side will make it a whole new radio (look at the "reworked TR7" on WB4HFN's site for an example of that!! The braid mod you mentioned was a Drake factory fix to a problem found. There are many such things Drake put out to fix known engineering oversights. They remained in business for MANY years past the sales of the first rigs, and found need to do that for most of the line. That's just not the same thing as the full Monte Sherwood job. What most of us said to the original question was that it was up to how he intended to use the rig and what he expected to get out of it when he was finished with it. If using it "from now on", do what you want. If fixing it to use and sell in a few months, you won't get close to your investment back. Most threads get hijacked and twisted, that's one of the problems with lists. In the end, each man (or woman's) gear is theirs, and they should do what they wish with it. If you ask, you should be ready to get ALL views, not just the ones you wanted to get, hi. 73, and enjoy those Drakes, or Frankendrakes, both, Don, WB5HAK - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1901 / Virus Database: 2109/4719 - Release Date: 01/02/12 ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
David, I think you will find that in any group. One group will ONLY stay stock, even going so far as to gut and "re-stuff" paper caps with new poly caps, remelting beeswax back in the ends! The other group to the other side will make it a whole new radio (look at the "reworked TR7" on WB4HFN's site for an example of that!! The braid mod you mentioned was a Drake factory fix to a problem found. There are many such things Drake put out to fix known engineering oversights. They remained in business for MANY years past the sales of the first rigs, and found need to do that for most of the line. That's just not the same thing as the full Monte Sherwood job. What most of us said to the original question was that it was up to how he intended to use the rig and what he expected to get out of it when he was finished with it. If using it "from now on", do what you want. If fixing it to use and sell in a few months, you won't get close to your investment back. Most threads get hijacked and twisted, that's one of the problems with lists. In the end, each man (or woman's) gear is theirs, and they should do what they wish with it. If you ask, you should be ready to get ALL views, not just the ones you wanted to get, hi. 73, and enjoy those Drakes, or Frankendrakes, both, Don, WB5HAK ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
Well IMHO, I think it's fine to MOD the R-4C as it has some problems (to me anyways) and a stock one while OK...is not that great compared to a good R-4B. When I had the stock R-4C...I liked it but I didn't seem to use it that much...went to the B line I had at the time. After I got the Sherwood R-4C and added one more Sherwood MOD that wasn't already on (The 2.4 KC front end filter set) I really loved the performace and have used it a bunch. One big thing...getting all that heat out of there...this think is ROCK solid after a couple minutes. I usually don't use the roofing filters unless it is weak DX near strong sigs OR a contest week end...but it's nice to have them when needed. Look at rob Sherwood's RXCVR chartyou will see the stock R-4C way down the list...the Sherwood one is still pretty high up there...considering the company it is keeping. Now I am looking for a pristine R-4A...just for nice rag chew smooth audio qso's. And everything is in therealready..or maybe a R-4B if I can't find the A. 73, Lee -Original Message- From: David To: drakelist Sent: Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:12 pm Subject: Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods The thread for the Sherwood modifications started with Max asking which ones would be useful. In my reply email and others tried to answer the question for Max. Hope this effort was useful to him. I was surprised, however, to see such a staunch group that insists that the Drakes stay pristine. While I do not condone hackers and butchers (have one really sad case now on the bench from some person who cared little of what the radio was), I do believe there are mods that would enhance the use of the radio. For example, would anyone not recommend the grounding braid on a PTO that obviously has lost the ability to provide its own ground? Such a modification enhances the pleasure of the use of the radio. Not doing it keeps that radio generally useless. And so it is for the Sherwood Mods. When I did mine it was on a set that was already partially modified by Sherwood. It was at a point in time where I could not afford anything else than a used set of Drakes. It was my only radio. Modifications to the radio for my purposes made the enjoyment even deeper and it is the reason while 30 years later I still have them. So, while it is purist to state that the Drakes should stay pristine, we all know and accept that those modified with a true and correct intent to fix and enhance the operation was for me, and many, a choice that would have otherwise frustrated us to another hobby. The term "different strokes for different folks..." How we all use and love our Drake radios is unique. There simply is not a single right or wrong way; so it is with the modifications. Enjoyed the thread. David Assaf, III W5XU -Original Message- From: drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net [mailto:drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net] On Behalf Of kc9...@aol.com Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2012 3:22 PM To: w...@arrl.net; drakelist@zerobeat.net Subject: Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods Paul, Absolutely true...Rob Sherwoods design is top notch...and throwing a few parts you find around will NOT get you the same result. There's a lot more to it than those that have not really looked into it or have it would realize. I think for the design, quality of parts and the kind of parts needed Rob's prices are reasonable. The PS and Audio amp...well yes you could roll your own there...but better to just get the board s from him and install it yourself...IF you have the tools & abilities. 73, Lee -Original Message- From: Paul Christensen To: drakel...@.zerobeat.net Sent: Sun, Jan 1, 2012 1:34 pm Subject: Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods Most of Parts for the Sherwood MODS are not cheap...the relays alone for the filter swich board are $20 each + and you need several. Also, you need to be pretty creative to get it all in there...pretty tight in places. Yes, a tight fit, put perfectly manageable. Keep in mind that the Teledyne relays used for the filter switch are designed for RF applications and hence, the high cost. The entire relay board assembly was designed to eliminate filter leakage and "blow-by." Take a look at the Sherwood ultimate filter rejection spec and it's easily to see where the buyer's money is going. Paul, W9AC ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1901 / Virus Database: 2109/4713 - Release Date: 12/30/11 ___ Drakel
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
The thread for the Sherwood modifications started with Max asking which ones would be useful. In my reply email and others tried to answer the question for Max. Hope this effort was useful to him. I was surprised, however, to see such a staunch group that insists that the Drakes stay pristine. While I do not condone hackers and butchers (have one really sad case now on the bench from some person who cared little of what the radio was), I do believe there are mods that would enhance the use of the radio. For example, would anyone not recommend the grounding braid on a PTO that obviously has lost the ability to provide its own ground? Such a modification enhances the pleasure of the use of the radio. Not doing it keeps that radio generally useless. And so it is for the Sherwood Mods. When I did mine it was on a set that was already partially modified by Sherwood. It was at a point in time where I could not afford anything else than a used set of Drakes. It was my only radio. Modifications to the radio for my purposes made the enjoyment even deeper and it is the reason while 30 years later I still have them. So, while it is purist to state that the Drakes should stay pristine, we all know and accept that those modified with a true and correct intent to fix and enhance the operation was for me, and many, a choice that would have otherwise frustrated us to another hobby. The term "different strokes for different folks..." How we all use and love our Drake radios is unique. There simply is not a single right or wrong way; so it is with the modifications. Enjoyed the thread. David Assaf, III W5XU -Original Message- From: drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net [mailto:drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net] On Behalf Of kc9...@aol.com Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2012 3:22 PM To: w...@arrl.net; drakelist@zerobeat.net Subject: Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods Paul, Absolutely true...Rob Sherwoods design is top notch...and throwing a few parts you find around will NOT get you the same result. There's a lot more to it than those that have not really looked into it or have it would realize. I think for the design, quality of parts and the kind of parts needed Rob's prices are reasonable. The PS and Audio amp...well yes you could roll your own there...but better to just get the board s from him and install it yourself...IF you have the tools & abilities. 73, Lee -Original Message- From: Paul Christensen To: drakel...@.zerobeat.net Sent: Sun, Jan 1, 2012 1:34 pm Subject: Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods >Most of Parts for the Sherwood MODS are not cheap...the relays alone >for the filter swich board are $20 each + and you need several. >Also, you need to be pretty creative to get it all in there...pretty >tight in places. Yes, a tight fit, put perfectly manageable. Keep in mind that the Teledyne relays used for the filter switch are designed for RF applications and hence, the high cost. The entire relay board assembly was designed to eliminate filter leakage and "blow-by." Take a look at the Sherwood ultimate filter rejection spec and it's easily to see where the buyer's money is going. Paul, W9AC ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1901 / Virus Database: 2109/4713 - Release Date: 12/30/11 ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
Paul, Absolutely true...Rob Sherwoods design is top notch...and throwing a few parts you find around will NOT get you the same result. There's a lot more to it than those that have not really looked into it or have it would realize. I think for the design, quality of parts and the kind of parts needed Rob's prices are reasonable. The PS and Audio amp...well yes you could roll your own there...but better to just get the board s from him and install it yourself...IF you have the tools & abilities. 73, Lee -Original Message- From: Paul Christensen To: drakel...@.zerobeat.net Sent: Sun, Jan 1, 2012 1:34 pm Subject: Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods Most of Parts for the Sherwood MODS are not cheap...the relays alone for the filter swich board are $20 each + and you need several. Also, you need to be pretty creative to get it all in there...pretty tight in places. Yes, a tight fit, put perfectly manageable. Keep in mind that the Teledyne relays used for the filter switch are designed for RF applications and hence, the high cost. The entire relay board assembly was designed to eliminate filter leakage and "blow-by." Take a look at the Sherwood ultimate filter rejection spec and it's easily to see where the buyer's money is going. Paul, W9AC ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
Most of Parts for the Sherwood MODS are not cheap...the relays alone for the filter swich board are $20 each + and you need several. Also, you need to be pretty creative to get it all in there...pretty tight in places. Yes, a tight fit, put perfectly manageable. Keep in mind that the Teledyne relays used for the filter switch are designed for RF applications and hence, the high cost. The entire relay board assembly was designed to eliminate filter leakage and "blow-by." Take a look at the Sherwood ultimate filter rejection spec and it's easily to see where the buyer's money is going. Paul, W9AC ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
On Sun, 1 Jan 2012 12:09:15 -0500 (EST), kc9...@aol.com wrote: >Most of Parts for the Sherwood MODS are not cheap...the relays alone >for the filter swich board are $20 each + and you need several. >Also, you need to be pretty creative to get it all in there...pretty >tight in places. I guess we need to define which "mods" we are talking about. The filters are a subset of the entire "Sherwood" legend. Personally, I'm not particularly interested in dancing roofing filters, but if I was I probably could scrounge the necessary relays and such over time. The filters themselves, yes, they are pricey. The audio amp, power supply, product detector, etc., parts are cheap. I've got most of what I need for a lot of that, and probably didn't spend over $30. It's easier for me to buy a little somethign here and there than it is to plop down a lump sum all at once. Not that I am at all opposed to Mr. Sherwood making a buck or two doing something that he enjoys. 73 -Jim -- Ham Radio NU0C Lincoln, Nebraska, U.S.S.A. TR7/RV7/R7A/L7, TR6/RV6, T4XC/R4C/L4B, NCL2000, SB104A, R390A, GT550A/RV550A, HyGain 3750, IBM PS/2 - all vintage, all the time! "Give a man a URL, and he will learn for an hour; teach him to Google, and he will learn for a lifetime." HyGain 3750 User's Group - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HyGain_3750/ http://incolor.inetnebr.com/jshorney http://www.nebraskaghosts.org ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 21:04:07 -0500 (EST), kc9...@aol.com wrote: >Why invent the wheel...but as they say...go for it if it trips your >trigger. By the time you buy all the parts...you won't save much. Maybe you missed the part about FUN! And the sense of accomplishment. Parts are cheap. Especially if you went to the Radar O'Rielly school of procurement. 73 -Jim -- Ham Radio NU0C Lincoln, Nebraska, U.S.S.A. TR7/RV7/R7A/L7, TR6/RV6, T4XC/R4C/L4B, NCL2000, SB104A, R390A, GT550A/RV550A, HyGain 3750, IBM PS/2 - all vintage, all the time! "Give a man a URL, and he will learn for an hour; teach him to Google, and he will learn for a lifetime." HyGain 3750 User's Group - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HyGain_3750/ http://incolor.inetnebr.com/jshorney http://www.nebraskaghosts.org ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
Sartori Associates also made the kits available. The earliest ads I have for the Sherwood / Sartori kits is 1982. Most of the articles for R-4C improvement show up in 1979 issues of Ham Radio and 73. Fox Tango also made switchable 1st IF filters kits available they called GUF-1 and GUF-2. For a while in the late 90’s a fellow by the name of David McCauley I believe and sold upgrade kits as well through his online Drake Shop store. The boards were good quality and priced very reasonable. I don’t think he is in business any longer though. So you are quite correct Steve, the current improvements for the R-4C were dreamed up 30 years ago and by various individuals. 73, Gary___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
Steve, Have you ever had/used extensively a properly done Sherwood R-4C? I have a TT Orion II right beside it.that's a pretty good comparison machine, as would the K3... I had the Sherwood before the O II...now I really don't need the Sherwood, but I love it and it's staying. Sometimes I want to run Drake and I want the performace of the Sherwood R-4C. My 2 cents is if you are into running Drake AND want the top performace it's worth the Mods. If you do the Drake for ragchew & like the easy/great audio,, forget it and get a R-4A or B...better audio and very smooth. One nice thing about the Sherwood modded RX, leave the Front end filter switch at center and the regular front end isstill used...or go to 2,4 or 600 front end roofing filters as needed with heavy QRM. You don't really need anything but a Icom 718...but all this is fun. 73, Lee -Original Message- From: Steve Wedge To: Gary Poland ; drakelist Sent: Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:03 pm Subject: Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods One needs to look at these changes for what they are, in the context of their original use when they were introduced over 30 years ago. Back then, these mods did make a fairly-new radio perform much better. I can also remember ads in QST for solid-state tube replacements. I never saw any tests done on those. Back around 1980, these mods were ways to get more performance out of contemporary or recently contemporary rigs. There are folks who love them with these mods and others who hate 'em. A chacque son gout. For me and lots of others, we like the Drakes for what they represent from their now-historical period and will minimize the mods. Myself, I have an Elecraft K3 for doing contesting and heavy-duty DX'ing. It's a fantastic rig. I used to have a Model A Ford, as well as my modern car that I commuted to work with. While it was fun to take the "A" out on weekends and occasionally to work to show it off, it really was a lousy commuter car compared to the Saab that I was driving at the time. But the "A" was still enjoyable. That's the way I look at my Drake gear. BTW, stock Drake gear is usually much more useable on the current bands than 90% of the other rigs that were contemporary to any of the Drake line. My $0.02 Enjoy Those Drakes, but leave the DSP in your K3... Steve Wedge, W1ES/4 "I can't complain, but sometimes I still do." - Joe Walsh If the above message appears, it came from Steve's Son of Laptop! - Original Message - From: Gary Poland To: drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 9:43 AM Subject: Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods Against my better judgment to comment on the Sherwood mods, I guess this time I can’t help myself HI HI. This subject is just about as opinionated as the fan sucks in, blows out debate. First I am not a serious contester, just a tinkerer, casual SSB /AM operator and not so serious DX chaser. Short of first IF filter replacements, I am personally not in favor of modifying the the R-4C. Even overlooking the fact that it is no longer as Drake designed it, good or bad, I prefer to keep them stock, just my opinion. I love them for what they are. The modifications were first published in Ham Radio and 73 magazines years ago. I have tried most of them, but later returned the R-4C back to stock. Probably the best reason I see against the mods, unless you have money to burn, they are very expensive. I personally would prefer the keep the Drakes stock and purchase a newer radio. Again I realize everyone is different, everyone has an opinion. Those that spent big bucks to “ upgrade “ their R-4C’s have a need to feel warm and fuzzy about the expense I suppose, and maybe they see a real improvement. I will just keep my non Blue LED lighted, spotted chassis, non $100 Hartzel paint job, non modded C-lines as they are ... 73, Gary ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
Jim, Of course anything can be done...it takes MANY, MANY hours just to install all of Sherwoods mods even if you get the kits from him. Then there is a modified alignment procedure too. (according to Rob, I have not had to do one since he did mine) Why invent the wheel...but as they say...go for it if it trips your trigger. By the time you buy all the parts...you won't save much. 73, Lee -Original Message- From: Jim Shorney To: drakelist Sent: Sat, Dec 31, 2011 8:55 pm Subject: Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 20:32:14 -0500 (EST), kc9...@aol.com wrote: I don't see any of the MODS I have on my Sherwood R-4C as roll your own...I guess if you can design and build printed circuit boards and get all the parts including those neat front end filters you could. Sure, why not? That's what building stuff is all about! You could even make your own crystal filters if you wanted to get that deep. Most of the Sherwood stuff is pretty well documented. 73 -Jim -- Ham Radio NU0C Lincoln, Nebraska, U.S.S.A. TR7/RV7/R7A/L7, TR6/RV6, T4XC/R4C/L4B, NCL2000, SB104A, R390A, GT550A/RV550A, HyGain 3750, IBM PS/2 - all vintage, all the time! "Give a man a URL, and he will learn for an hour; teach him to Google, and he will learn for a lifetime." HyGain 3750 User's Group - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HyGain_3750/ http://incolor.inetnebr.com/jshorney http://www.nebraskaghosts.org ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
One needs to look at these changes for what they are, in the context of their original use when they were introduced over 30 years ago. Back then, these mods did make a fairly-new radio perform much better. I can also remember ads in QST for solid-state tube replacements. I never saw any tests done on those. Back around 1980, these mods were ways to get more performance out of contemporary or recently contemporary rigs. There are folks who love them with these mods and others who hate 'em. A chacque son gout. For me and lots of others, we like the Drakes for what they represent from their now-historical period and will minimize the mods. Myself, I have an Elecraft K3 for doing contesting and heavy-duty DX'ing. It's a fantastic rig. I used to have a Model A Ford, as well as my modern car that I commuted to work with. While it was fun to take the "A" out on weekends and occasionally to work to show it off, it really was a lousy commuter car compared to the Saab that I was driving at the time. But the "A" was still enjoyable. That's the way I look at my Drake gear. BTW, stock Drake gear is usually much more useable on the current bands than 90% of the other rigs that were contemporary to any of the Drake line. My $0.02 Enjoy Those Drakes, but leave the DSP in your K3... Steve Wedge, W1ES/4 "I can't complain, but sometimes I still do." - Joe Walsh If the above message appears, it came from Steve's Son of Laptop! - Original Message - From: Gary Poland To: drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 9:43 AM Subject: Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods Against my better judgment to comment on the Sherwood mods, I guess this time I can’t help myself HI HI. This subject is just about as opinionated as the fan sucks in, blows out debate. First I am not a serious contester, just a tinkerer, casual SSB /AM operator and not so serious DX chaser. Short of first IF filter replacements, I am personally not in favor of modifying the the R-4C. Even overlooking the fact that it is no longer as Drake designed it, good or bad, I prefer to keep them stock, just my opinion. I love them for what they are. The modifications were first published in Ham Radio and 73 magazines years ago. I have tried most of them, but later returned the R-4C back to stock. Probably the best reason I see against the mods, unless you have money to burn, they are very expensive. I personally would prefer the keep the Drakes stock and purchase a newer radio. Again I realize everyone is different, everyone has an opinion. Those that spent big bucks to “ upgrade “ their R-4C’s have a need to feel warm and fuzzy about the expense I suppose, and maybe they see a real improvement. I will just keep my non Blue LED lighted, spotted chassis, non $100 Hartzel paint job, non modded C-lines as they are ... 73, Gary -- ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 20:32:14 -0500 (EST), kc9...@aol.com wrote: >I don't see any of the MODS I have on my Sherwood R-4C as roll your >own...I guess if you can design and build printed circuit boards and >get all the parts including those neat front end filters you could. Sure, why not? That's what building stuff is all about! You could even make your own crystal filters if you wanted to get that deep. Most of the Sherwood stuff is pretty well documented. 73 -Jim -- Ham Radio NU0C Lincoln, Nebraska, U.S.S.A. TR7/RV7/R7A/L7, TR6/RV6, T4XC/R4C/L4B, NCL2000, SB104A, R390A, GT550A/RV550A, HyGain 3750, IBM PS/2 - all vintage, all the time! "Give a man a URL, and he will learn for an hour; teach him to Google, and he will learn for a lifetime." HyGain 3750 User's Group - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HyGain_3750/ http://incolor.inetnebr.com/jshorney http://www.nebraskaghosts.org ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
Jim, Huh? I don't see any of the MODS I have on my Sherwood R-4C as roll your own...I guess if you can design and build printed circuit boards and get all the parts including those neat front end filters you could. Another way to get a Sherwood r-4C is get one from someone selling thiers. They do sell the kits so you can install them yourself..(Maybe a couple at a time) I did a couple...I am a pretty good technitian and it was not all that easy to do...it's pretty tight in most of the RX. Anyways...Glad I already have it...just today I used the C line including the L-4B, and had a great timejust nice & quiet and signals just pop out when you get to them. I have the 2.4 KC frony end roofing filters and it's cool to have weal signals nearby that do not de-sense the weak ones. 73, Lee -Original Message- From: Jim Shorney To: drakelist Sent: Sat, Dec 31, 2011 12:26 pm Subject: Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 09:43:18 -0500, Gary Poland wrote: Probably the best reason I see against the mods, unless you have money to burn, they are very expensive. I personally would prefer the keep the Drakes stock and purchase a newer radio. Again I realize everyone is different, everyone has an opinion I can see your point, and I generally stay away from "feature-ism" mods, but I'm not opposed to technically sound mods that address design deficiencies. Arguably that audio output stage and low voltage power supply were not state-of-the-art when the radio was manufactured, nor was the product detector and that mixer stage that picks up noise on AM, but we can assume that Drake was designing to a price point. Sherwood mods are only expensive when purchased from Sherwood, it's easy enough to roll your own for most of them if you have the skills. I don't care for most of the modern radios out there at all, and can't justify the expense - especially when I can spend a sawbuck or two now and then on some parts and make what I have the equal of anything that's out there in performance or listenablility. Just my opinons. 73 -Jim -- Ham Radio NU0C Lincoln, Nebraska, U.S.S.A. TR7/RV7/R7A/L7, TR6/RV6, T4XC/R4C/L4B, NCL2000, SB104A, R390A, GT550A/RV550A, HyGain 3750, IBM PS/2 - all vintage, all the time! "Give a man a URL, and he will learn for an hour; teach him to Google, and he will learn for a lifetime." HyGain 3750 User's Group - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HyGain_3750/ http://incolor.inetnebr.com/jshorney http://www.nebraskaghosts.org ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 13:55:06 -0500 (EST), L L bahr wrote: > I look at modifying a Drake rig like taking a Stanley Steamer, removing it's > boiler and installing a Corvette engine in it. Maybe you wouldn't put a 'vette engine in it, but I'd bet a dollar that you would set a stadium cushion on the seat to soften your ride a bit ;) > > I just look at modifying a Drake rig as showing no appreciation of years gone > bye technology. If someone wants to improve something, go out and buy a new > 2012 rig and modify/destroy it. And I can still remember when is wasn't uncommon for hams to spend hours tuning, tweaking, and yes, making modifications to their gear (whether homebrew or store-bought) so they could put the best possible signal on the air. This is just an extension of that, and arguably part of the basis and purpose of Amateur Radio. And besides that, it's FUN! Aside from that, which one of us hasn't replaced a 2-wire power cord with 3-wire, or (to stray off-topic a bit) opearated an AC/DC set through an isolation transformer? Those are mods, too. If Bob Drake modded his C-Line, would it still be a Drake...? 73 -Jim -- Ham Radio NU0C Lincoln, Nebraska, U.S.S.A. TR7/RV7/R7A/L7, TR6/RV6, T4XC/R4C/L4B, NCL2000, SB104A, R390A, GT550A/RV550A, HyGain 3750, IBM PS/2 - all vintage, all the time! "Give a man a URL, and he will learn for an hour; teach him to Google, and he will learn for a lifetime." HyGain 3750 User's Group - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HyGain_3750/ http://incolor.inetnebr.com/jshorney http://www.nebraskaghosts.org ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
Adrian… I can’t resist this comment to your Jaguar/Bentley question and being fond of both vehicle lines. It seems to me you would call that car a Jentley rather than say, a Baguar. OK, that’s my last bad joke for 2011. I promise. Happy New Year to all! Tom Holmes, N8ZM Tipp City, OH EM79 From: drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net [mailto:drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net] On Behalf Of Adrian Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 6:35 AM To: John Brown Cc: drakelist@zerobeat.net Subject: Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods A vacuum tube-born radio with loads of solid state mods ? Sorry but then isn't a vacuum made receiver,transmitter, twin line ( etc ) anymore. The FUN about those "boathanchors" is "use it as it is". If i wanna something improved...ill buy a new product. At my side, the challenging while using old stuff is fun, fun and fun. The battle against big, closed, splatters while you have to fight with the passband tuning AND rf gain...etc etc. It's like to drive a Jaguar, but with a (eg) Bentley engine inside. Do we can call that car a Jaguar ? I don't think so. So, at my side, a Drake product, with plenty of solid state things inside...isn't a Drake anymore. Obv it's only my opinion. '73 de Adrian iz3svi On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 12:06:30 +1100, "John Brown" wrote: Max, if you are inclined towards doing all of the R-4C Sherwood mods on your receiver then I would say it would be well worthwhile. The complete mods really puts the R4-C ahead of the pack. I have done 2 R4C’s this way and wouldn’t hesitate to do them again. In terms of individual mods, then the power supply is a must and perhaps the filter capacitors at the same time. The audio module gets rid of the class A audio amp which is a heat generator and source of PTO drift. I believe you would need to do the audio mod if the power supply is upgraded. So once you start you might as well keep going. Best of luck JB From: drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net [mailto:drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net] On Behalf Of AirRadio Sent: Saturday, 31 December 2011 8:28 AM To: drakelist@zerobeat.net Subject: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods I am thinking about doing the full works Sherwood mods on my R4-C. Which are the best to do? I don't mind how far I go with this, I just want the best receiver for my money, I would like it for Top band use but I know it will be good for all frequencies however 160M is where I want to go. 73 Max M0GHQ/W8BX ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
Personally I would never consider modifying my Drakes. They work great as is. When I want 2011 technology, I use one of my modern rigs. When I turn on my Drakes, I want to experience a Drake rig, and not some cobbled up one. I no longer would consider buying any Drake rig with modifications. I've done that a few times and regretted it each and every time. (Too much working taking them out). I look at modifying a Drake rig like taking a Stanley Steamer, removing it's boiler and installing a Corvette engine in it. Doing this makes absolutely no sense to me at all. To me, if you don't like the radio as is, why not build your own design. One of my other interests are Tropical Fish. I am almost out of that hobby as today sellers are injecting dye to color living fish and breeding sports which never existed in nature. I guess there are different strokes for different people. I just look at modifying a Drake rig as showing no appreciation of years gone bye technology. If someone wants to improve something, go out and buy a new 2012 rig and modify/destroy it. Lee, w0vt ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 09:43:18 -0500, Gary Poland wrote: >Probably the best reason I see against the mods, unless you have money to >burn, they are very expensive. I personally would prefer the keep the Drakes >stock and purchase a newer radio. Again I realize everyone is different, >everyone has an opinion I can see your point, and I generally stay away from "feature-ism" mods, but I'm not opposed to technically sound mods that address design deficiencies. Arguably that audio output stage and low voltage power supply were not state-of-the-art when the radio was manufactured, nor was the product detector and that mixer stage that picks up noise on AM, but we can assume that Drake was designing to a price point. Sherwood mods are only expensive when purchased from Sherwood, it's easy enough to roll your own for most of them if you have the skills. I don't care for most of the modern radios out there at all, and can't justify the expense - especially when I can spend a sawbuck or two now and then on some parts and make what I have the equal of anything that's out there in performance or listenablility. Just my opinons. 73 -Jim -- Ham Radio NU0C Lincoln, Nebraska, U.S.S.A. TR7/RV7/R7A/L7, TR6/RV6, T4XC/R4C/L4B, NCL2000, SB104A, R390A, GT550A/RV550A, HyGain 3750, IBM PS/2 - all vintage, all the time! "Give a man a URL, and he will learn for an hour; teach him to Google, and he will learn for a lifetime." HyGain 3750 User's Group - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HyGain_3750/ http://incolor.inetnebr.com/jshorney http://www.nebraskaghosts.org ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 12:35:11 +0100, Adrian wrote: >So, at my side, a Drake product, with plenty of solid state >things inside...isn't a Drake anymore. I hate to tell you this, Adrian, but your Drake already has solid state things inside. 73 -Jim -- Ham Radio NU0C Lincoln, Nebraska, U.S.S.A. TR7/RV7/R7A/L7, TR6/RV6, T4XC/R4C/L4B, NCL2000, SB104A, R390A, GT550A/RV550A, HyGain 3750, IBM PS/2 - all vintage, all the time! "Give a man a URL, and he will learn for an hour; teach him to Google, and he will learn for a lifetime." HyGain 3750 User's Group - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HyGain_3750/ http://incolor.inetnebr.com/jshorney http://www.nebraskaghosts.org ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
Well, thats another way to look at it...and very valid. Today you can do that (buy a better radio) BUT in the time when he was doing a lot of them...that was NOT an option since during that time the Jap radios were very poor RX ( they didn't tell us that??) we were sold on all the neat features & no tuneup. Just recently are the MFG (US & Jap) radios finally coming around to using roofing filters like Rob used decades ago! If you love the whole Drake thing AND you want a real DX/contest quality radio...go for the MODS. Yep, get your wallet out and dig deep. As to using the Drakes the way they were originally. Give me a R-4A or R-4B instead. 73, Lee -Original Message- From: Gary Poland To: drakelist Sent: Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:45 am Subject: Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods Against my better judgment to comment on the Sherwood mods, I guess this time I can’t help myself HI HI. This subject is just about as opinionated as the fan sucks in, blows out debate. First I am not a serious contester, just a tinkerer, casual SSB /AM operator and not so serious DX chaser. Short of first IF filter replacements, I am personally not in favor of modifying the the R-4C. Even overlooking the fact that it is no longer as Drake designed it, good or bad, I prefer to keep them stock, just my opinion. I love them for what they are. The modifications were first published in Ham Radio and 73 magazines years ago. I have tried most of them, but later returned the R-4C back to stock. Probably the best reason I see against the mods, unless you have money to burn, they are very expensive. I personally would prefer the keep the Drakes stock and purchase a newer radio. Again I realize everyone is different, everyone has an opinion. Those that spent big bucks to “ upgrade “ their R-4C’s have a need to feel warm and fuzzy about the expense I suppose, and maybe they see a real improvement. I will just keep my non Blue LED lighted, spotted chassis, non $100 Hartzel paint job, non modded C-lines as they are ... 73, Gary ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
The audio amp in the stock R-4C is already solid state. The Sherwood mod for the audio amp does make it sound better and removes the big heat source right below the PTO. That is the only Sherwood mod I made, but I'm considering the power supply mod. I also installed the Hayseed Hamfest cap cans. 73, Bob WW3QB The R-4C (stock) is hardly a true vacuum tube radio...very much a hybrid. Even the R-4B has quite a few transisters. Early R-4a...= tube RX...and I'm looking to get one of those some day (Dayton??) 73, Lee -Original Message- From: Adrian To: John Brown Cc: drakelist Sent: Sat, Dec 31, 2011 6:50 am Subject: Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods A vacuum tube-born radio with loads of solid state mods ? Sorry but then isn't a vacuum made receiver,transmitter, twin line ( etc ) anymore. The FUN about those "boathanchors" is "use it as it is". If i wanna something improved...ill buy a new product. At my side, the challenging while using old stuff is fun, fun and fun. The battle against big, closed, splatters while you have to fight with the passband tuning AND rf gain...etc etc. It's like to drive a Jaguar, but with a (eg) Bentley engine inside. Do we can call that car a Jaguar ? I don't think so. So, at my side, a Drake product, with plenty of solid state things inside...isn't a Drake anymore. Obv it's only my opinion. '73 de Adrian iz3svi On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 12:06:30 +1100, "John Brown" wrote: Max, if you are inclined towards doing all of the R-4C Sherwood mods on your receiver then I would say it would be well worthwhile. The complete mods really puts the R4-C ahead of the pack. I have done 2 R4C’s this way and wouldn’t hesitate to do them again. In terms of individual mods, then the power supply is a must and perhaps the filter capacitors at the same time. The audio module gets rid of the class A audio amp which is a heat generator and source of PTO drift. I believe you would need to do the audio mod if the power supply is upgraded. So once you start you might as well keep going. Best of luck JB From: drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net [mailto:drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net] On Behalf Of AirRadio Sent: Saturday, 31 December 2011 8:28 AM To: drakelist@zerobeat.net Subject: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods I am thinking about doing the full works Sherwood mods on my R4-C. Which are the best to do? I don't mind how far I go with this, I just want the best receiver for my money, I would like it for Top band use but I know it will be good for all frequencies however 160M is where I want to go. 73 Max M0GHQ/W8BX ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
"To Mod or not to Mod" has been an interesting theme to close out the old year, that is for sure. Happy Old Year to all, and may the new year bring excellent propagation, low noise, and resonance on all antennas and remember, "to tune is to exist." Kris KM2KM___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
The R-4C (stock) is hardly a true vacuum tube radio...very much a hybrid. Even the R-4B has quite a few transisters. Early R-4a...= tube RX...and I'm looking to get one of those some day (Dayton??) 73, Lee -Original Message- From: Adrian To: John Brown Cc: drakelist Sent: Sat, Dec 31, 2011 6:50 am Subject: Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods A vacuum tube-born radio with loads of solid state mods ? Sorry but then isn't a vacuum made receiver,transmitter, twin line ( etc ) anymore. The FUN about those "boathanchors" is "use it as it is". If i wanna something improved...ill buy a new product. At my side, the challenging while using old stuff is fun, fun and fun. The battle against big, closed, splatters while you have to fight with the passband tuning AND rf gain...etc etc. It's like to drive a Jaguar, but with a (eg) Bentley engine inside. Do we can call that car a Jaguar ? I don't think so. So, at my side, a Drake product, with plenty of solid state things inside...isn't a Drake anymore. Obv it's only my opinion. '73 de Adrian iz3svi On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 12:06:30 +1100, "John Brown" wrote: Max, if you are inclined towards doing all of the R-4C Sherwood mods on your receiver then I would say it would be well worthwhile. The complete mods really puts the R4-C ahead of the pack. I have done 2 R4C’s this way and wouldn’t hesitate to do them again. In terms of individual mods, then the power supply is a must and perhaps the filter capacitors at the same time. The audio module gets rid of the class A audio amp which is a heat generator and source of PTO drift. I believe you would need to do the audio mod if the power supply is upgraded. So once you start you might as well keep going. Best of luck JB From: drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net [mailto:drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net] On Behalf Of AirRadio Sent: Saturday, 31 December 2011 8:28 AM To: drakelist@zerobeat.net Subject: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods I am thinking about doing the full works Sherwood mods on my R4-C. Which are the best to do? I don't mind how far I go with this, I just want the best receiver for my money, I would like it for Top band use but I know it will be good for all frequencies however 160M is where I want to go. 73 Max M0GHQ/W8BX ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
I'll third it. If I want something to act like a new whizbang radio, why not get a new whizbang radio? The joy of an old piece of gear is it being an old piece of gear that still works well. I suppose the "ultimate" update would be to remove everything in the cabinet of a R4C and install inside an Elecraft K3.. Would it still be a Drake? I don't think so, but others might. We own the radios, so we're free to do as we wish, but remember, it's only original once. John K5MO At 09:43 AM 12/31/2011, Gary Poland wrote: Against my better judgment to comment on the Sherwood mods, I guess this time I canât help myself HI HI. This subject is just about as opinionated as the fan sucks in, blows out debate. First I am not a serious contester, just a tinkerer, casual SSB /AM operator and not so serious DX chaser. Short of first IF filter replacements, I am personally not in favor of modifying the the R-4C. Even overlooking the fact that it is no longer as Drake designed it, good or bad, I prefer to keep them stock, just my opinion. I love them for what they are. The modifications were first published in Ham Radio and 73 magazines years ago. I have tried most of them, but later returned the R-4C back to stock. Probably the best reason I see against the mods, unless you have money to burn, they are very expensive. I personally would prefer the keep the Drakes stock and purchase a newer radio. Again I realize everyone is different, everyone has an opinion. Those that spent big bucks to â upgrade â their R-4Câs have a need to feel warm and fuzzy about the expense I suppose, and maybe they see a real improvement. I will just keep my non Blue LED lighted, spotted chassis, non $100 Hartzel paint job, non modded C-lines as they are ... 73, Gary ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
Gary - Amen! Happy New Year!! 73, Garey - K4OAH Glen Allen, VA Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs Gary Poland wrote: Against my better judgment to comment on the Sherwood mods, I guess this time I can’t help myself HI HI. This subject is just about as opinionated as the fan sucks in, blows out debate. First I am not a serious contester, just a tinkerer, casual SSB /AM operator and not so serious DX chaser. Short of first IF filter replacements, I am personally not in favor of modifying the the R-4C. Even overlooking the fact that it is no longer as Drake designed it, good or bad, I prefer to keep them stock, just my opinion. I love them for what they are. The modifications were first published in Ham Radio and 73 magazines years ago. I have tried most of them, but later returned the R-4C back to stock. Probably the best reason I see against the mods, unless you have money to burn, they are very expensive. I personally would prefer the keep the Drakes stock and purchase a newer radio. Again I realize everyone is different, everyone has an opinion. Those that spent big bucks to “ upgrade “ their R-4C’s have a need to feel warm and fuzzy about the expense I suppose, and maybe they see a real improvement. I will just keep my non Blue LED lighted, spotted chassis, non $100 Hartzel paint job, non modded C-lines as they are ... 73, Gary ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
Against my better judgment to comment on the Sherwood mods, I guess this time I can’t help myself HI HI. This subject is just about as opinionated as the fan sucks in, blows out debate. First I am not a serious contester, just a tinkerer, casual SSB /AM operator and not so serious DX chaser. Short of first IF filter replacements, I am personally not in favor of modifying the the R-4C. Even overlooking the fact that it is no longer as Drake designed it, good or bad, I prefer to keep them stock, just my opinion. I love them for what they are. The modifications were first published in Ham Radio and 73 magazines years ago. I have tried most of them, but later returned the R-4C back to stock. Probably the best reason I see against the mods, unless you have money to burn, they are very expensive. I personally would prefer the keep the Drakes stock and purchase a newer radio. Again I realize everyone is different, everyone has an opinion. Those that spent big bucks to “ upgrade “ their R-4C’s have a need to feel warm and fuzzy about the expense I suppose, and maybe they see a real improvement. I will just keep my non Blue LED lighted, spotted chassis, non $100 Hartzel paint job, non modded C-lines as they are ... 73, Gary ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
Adrian - You're not alone!! :-) 73, Garey - K4OAH Glen Allen, VA Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs Adrian wrote: A vacuum tube-born radio with loads of solid state mods ? Sorry but then isn't a vacuum made receiver,transmitter, twin line ( etc ) anymore. The FUN about those "boathanchors" is "use it as it is". If i wanna something improved...ill buy a new product. At my side, the challenging while using old stuff is fun, fun and fun. The battle against big, closed, splatters while you have to fight with the passband tuning AND rf gain...etc etc. It's like to drive a Jaguar, but with a (eg) Bentley engine inside. Do we can call that car a Jaguar ? I don't think so. So, at my side, a Drake product, with plenty of solid state things inside...isn't a Drake anymore. Obv it's only my opinion. '73 de Adrian iz3svi On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 12:06:30 +1100, "John Brown" wrote: Max, if you are inclined towards doing all of the R-4C Sherwood mods on your receiver then I would say it would be well worthwhile. The complete mods really puts the R4-C ahead of the pack. I have done 2 R4C’s this way and wouldn’t hesitate to do them again. In terms of individual mods, then the power supply is a must and perhaps the filter capacitors at the same time. The audio module gets rid of the class A audio amp which is a heat generator and source of PTO drift. I believe you would need to do the audio mod if the power supply is upgraded. So once you start you might as well keep going. Best of luck JB *From:*drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net [mailto:drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net] *On Behalf Of *AirRadio *Sent:* Saturday, 31 December 2011 8:28 AM *To:* drakelist@zerobeat.net *Subject:* [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods I am thinking about doing the full works Sherwood mods on my R4-C. Which are the best to do? I don't mind how far I go with this, I just want the best receiver for my money, I would like it for Top band use but I know it will be good for all frequencies however 160M is where I want to go. 73 Max ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
I have investigated the Sherwood Mods somewhat, but I found, like Steve mentioned, a lot of it is directed toward building a better contest radio. The mods really go after the close in IMD spec in CW. Other than a little better audio, it seems that UNLESS you truly want a contest rig, it may not do what you expect. I find it mildly amusing that so many Drake fans, who are pretty openly against just about any non-Drake modification, will embrace the Sherwood treatment. Remember, it is no longer an R4c when you are doneit is a Sherwood/Drake R4c. FWIW, Curt KU8L On 12/30/2011 8:06 PM, John Brown wrote: Max, if you are inclined towards doing all of the R-4C Sherwood mods on your receiver then I would say it would be well worthwhile. The complete mods really puts the R4-C ahead of the pack. I have done 2 R4C's this way and wouldn't hesitate to do them again. In terms of individual mods, then the power supply is a must and perhaps the filter capacitors at the same time. The audio module gets rid of the class A audio amp which is a heat generator and source of PTO drift. I believe you would need to do the audio mod if the power supply is upgraded. So once you start you might as well keep going. Best of luck JB *From:*drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net [mailto:drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net] *On Behalf Of *AirRadio *Sent:* Saturday, 31 December 2011 8:28 AM *To:* drakelist@zerobeat.net *Subject:* [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods I am thinking about doing the full works Sherwood mods on my R4-C. Which are the best to do? I don't mind how far I go with this, I just want the best receiver for my money, I would like it for Top band use but I know it will be good for all frequencies however 160M is where I want to go. 73 Max M0GHQ/W8BX ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
A vacuum tube-born radio with loads of solid state mods ? Sorry but then isn't a vacuum made receiver,transmitter, twin line ( etc ) anymore. The FUN about those "boathanchors" is "use it as it is". If i wanna something improved...ill buy a new product. At my side, the challenging while using old stuff is fun, fun and fun. The battle against big, closed, splatters while you have to fight with the passband tuning AND rf gain...etc etc. It's like to drive a Jaguar, but with a (eg) Bentley engine inside. Do we can call that car a Jaguar ? I don't think so. So, at my side, a Drake product, with plenty of solid state things inside...isn't a Drake anymore. Obv it's only my opinion. '73 de Adrian iz3svi On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 12:06:30 +1100, "John Brown" wrote: Max, if you are inclined towards doing all of the R-4C Sherwood mods on your receiver then I would say it would be well worthwhile. The complete mods really puts the R4-C ahead of the pack. I have done 2 R4C's this way and wouldn't hesitate to do them again. In terms of individual mods, then the power supply is a must and perhaps the filter capacitors at the same time. The audio module gets rid of the class A audio amp which is a heat generator and source of PTO drift. I believe you would need to do the audio mod if the power supply is upgraded. So once you start you might as well keep going. Best of luck JB FROM: drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net [mailto:drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net] ON BEHALF OF AirRadio SENT: Saturday, 31 December 2011 8:28 AM TO: drakelist@zerobeat.net SUBJECT: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods I am thinking about doing the full works Sherwood mods on my R4-C. Which are the best to do? I don't mind how far I go with this, I just want the best receiver for my money, I would like it for Top band use but I know it will be good for all frequencies however 160M is where I want to go. 73 Max M0GHQ/W8BX ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
Max, if you are inclined towards doing all of the R-4C Sherwood mods on your receiver then I would say it would be well worthwhile. The complete mods really puts the R4-C ahead of the pack. I have done 2 R4C's this way and wouldn't hesitate to do them again. In terms of individual mods, then the power supply is a must and perhaps the filter capacitors at the same time. The audio module gets rid of the class A audio amp which is a heat generator and source of PTO drift. I believe you would need to do the audio mod if the power supply is upgraded. So once you start you might as well keep going. Best of luck JB From: drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net [mailto:drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net] On Behalf Of AirRadio Sent: Saturday, 31 December 2011 8:28 AM To: drakelist@zerobeat.net Subject: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods I am thinking about doing the full works Sherwood mods on my R4-C. Which are the best to do? I don't mind how far I go with this, I just want the best receiver for my money, I would like it for Top band use but I know it will be good for all frequencies however 160M is where I want to go. 73 Max M0GHQ/W8BX ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
You may wish to consider the following: Solid state mixer mod: The 6EQ7 (I believe) is notoriously prone to microphonics and earlier I had purchased several spare tubes just for this reason. They were hard to get then. They did not last long, so this mod essentially solved the problem and resulted in a much quieter unit. Solid state product detector: The original product detector was a simple and poor design originating to the R blank line; this fixes the unit and makes the detection more robust and less prone to producing noise. Solid state power supply and capacitor kit (actually 2 kits here): many of the mods need a clean and regulated source of DC power. This mod replaces the original capacitors (probably in need of that any way) and PROVIDES A NEW POWER SUPPLY for the radio. Even up to the C line, when Drake needed a voltage less than 250 VDC, they inserted a (generally) big resistor in the line. This was true for the few solid state devices that were in the radio to start with. This cleans it up by providing a clean and regulated source of DC power and allows the radio to run at less DC current on the power supply. Less current, less heat and less "wear" on the power transformer. The best thing you can do for the radio and the modification that wakes up an otherwise lethargic radio is the 600 Cy roofing filter in the first IF. This is the first application (that I know of) of the roofing filter concept for improved CW operation. It is an amazing modification and turns an ok radio into a sprinter. By measurement, the modified R4C has a 2 KC dynamic range of in the 80 dB range. Up until 15 years ago this was a measurement not worth doing as no radio could perform in that regard. You simply accepted what the manufacturer, any, gave you . It took an otherwise good radio and made it a champ. As I work DX only, it made working a pile up or a contest a pleasure instead of a chore. It is truly amazing and essentially is what put Sherwood on the radio map. Incidentally, it was Bob's poor showing using a pair of new R4Cs on the ARRL 160M CW contest that gave birth to the first roofing filter. Since the intro of this mod, the other manufacturers have copied it and offer it in their new designs. It all began here with the R4C mod that Bob Sherwood did in the 60's. The articles in Ham Radio where they were first published are considered classics. If you do but one of the modifications, do this one. Lastly, the audio amplifier tube and circuit can be replaced with a solid state unit. It provides cleaner audio and reduces the heat and current draw even further. The radio I have has some of the home brew items of those articles as well as the modules purchased from Sherwood. I would recommend going the purchase route as all of the chore of mounting and part placement is already worked out in the radio for you. Good luck on your adventure. You will not be sorry. There are other mods that I have considered but not done that would incrementally improve the radio, but do not have them. There are also some simple mods for the T4X as well and I have used some of these as well. There are some that say that such modifications are heresy and should not be done to keep the stable pure and true. I do believe it is because of these mods that Drake is still alive in the contesting field. I would rather take the pleasure of using a modified radio than have a pristine original that I would never use. What you will end up with is a vastly improved radio, beyond what Drake could have imagined. It holds its on with any other radio I have ever used, Yaesu 1000, Orion, Omni 6+ (with the IRC roofing filter), Kenwood. You get the added smell and history and that full bodied sound that only the tube radios have. Keep in touch and go for it! I envy you for the great adventure you are about to embark on! David Assaf, III W5XU From: drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net [mailto:drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net] On Behalf Of Steve Wedge Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 5:49 PM To: AirRadio; drakelist@zerobeat.net Subject: Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods Hi, Max - I'd go for the mods that improve on the solid-state circuits. Because of the period when these radios were made, many of the early solid-state circuits that were used in the C's have had significant improvements - particularly the audio chain. I owned a couple of C-Line sets (one early and one late) and both had the Sherwood audio amps - which I consider to be worthwhile. There was another mod that may not have been Sherwood that involved the third mixer and placing an RF choke there (IIRC, it was in the cathode circuit, but we're dealing with a 25-year-old memory here...) - it applied only to the late-production and got rid of much of the hiss in the audio. Bear in mind that a lot of those mods turned the C-Line into contest-ready radios, which - if you&#x
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
Hi, Max - I'd go for the mods that improve on the solid-state circuits. Because of the period when these radios were made, many of the early solid-state circuits that were used in the C's have had significant improvements - particularly the audio chain. I owned a couple of C-Line sets (one early and one late) and both had the Sherwood audio amps - which I consider to be worthwhile. There was another mod that may not have been Sherwood that involved the third mixer and placing an RF choke there (IIRC, it was in the cathode circuit, but we're dealing with a 25-year-old memory here...) - it applied only to the late-production and got rid of much of the hiss in the audio. Bear in mind that a lot of those mods turned the C-Line into contest-ready radios, which - if you're only operating casually - will not return as much value. I used my C-Lines in several CQWW contests and they definitely held their own. 73, Steve Wedge, W1ES/4 Live free or die: Death is not the worst of evils. John Stark. All my computers have my signature with various pearls of wisdom appended thereto. From: AirRadio Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 4:28 PM To: drakelist@zerobeat.net Subject: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods I am thinking about doing the full works Sherwood mods on my R4-C. Which are the best to do? I don't mind how far I go with this, I just want the best receiver for my money, I would like it for Top band use but I know it will be good for all frequencies however 160M is where I want to go. 73 Max M0GHQ/W8BX ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
Max. YES, go for it! I have the Full Sherwood mods on a very late R-4C and it is top notch. I have ALL mods except the one for the FS4. I have done extensive A/B test against my Ten-Tec Orion II and...it will hear every bit as well in most conditions (SSB) And on CW excellant as well (The OII of couse does have the DSP) Rob's guy did the MODS on mine and the work is 10+... I use it all the time... Yes...it's going to cost you, but if it's a keeper...just do it. If you wanted a regular R-4 any...then I go with the R-4B for casual operating. 73, Lee -Original Message- From: AirRadio To: drakelist Sent: Fri, Dec 30, 2011 4:30 pm Subject: [Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods I am thinking about doing the full works Sherwood mods on my R4-C. Which are the best to do? I don't mind how far I go with this, I just want the best receiver for my money, I would like it for Top band use but I know it will be good for all frequencies however 160M is where I want to go. 73 Max M0GHQ/W8BX ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
[Drakelist] R4C Sherwood mods
I am thinking about doing the full works Sherwood mods on my R4-C. Which are the best to do? I don't mind how far I go with this, I just want the best receiver for my money, I would like it for Top band use but I know it will be good for all frequencies however 160M is where I want to go. 73 Max M0GHQ/W8BX___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
