Re: [DX-CHAT] Be Careful What You Wish For
I would recommend that the DXAC simply apply DXCC rule 12, specifically 12c: 12. Conduct: Exemplary conduct is expected of all amateur radio operators participating in the DXCC program. Evidence of intentionally disruptive operating practices or inappropriate ethical conduct in any aspect of DXCC participation may lead to disqualification from all participation in the program by action of the ARRL Awards Committee. Actions that may lead to disqualification include, but are not limited to: c) Participation in activities that create an unfavorable impression of amateur radio with government authorities. Such activities include malicious attempts to cause disruption or disaccreditation of an operation. I believe anyone on a DXpedition who operates on unauthorized frequencies in the host country would "create an unfavorable impression of amateur radio with government authorities" and therefore the operators of the DXpedition should be disqualified from the DXCC program. Secondly, there doesn't seem to be any enforcement actions against freebanders worldwide (that I've heard of, anyway). Lets keep our house in order and hope that governments can discern the difference between hams and freebanders when the situation arises. Kris N5KM Ron Notarius WN3VAW wrote: > > Hmmm, this is an interesting concept. But I don't buy it. The implication > being that if something is not overtly declared illegal, then it is legal, > suffers from a logical fallacy... namely that it has to be "declared" legal > or illegal to be so. > > Be so as it may... as far as DXCC is concerned, I think that any DX > operation that also operates in an illegal or illicit fashion (by the rules > of that particular administration), in addition to their legitimate Amateur > operation, risks putting Amateur Radio in a bad light by being clumped into > the same group with the illegals; and that is not limited to just Freeband > operation, incidently. Therefore, should such an operation occur, I can > understand where the DXCC desk may have a concern about legitimacy of the > entire operation. However, I'm not really sure that the DXCC desk may WANT > to have to rule on that. That can become a political hot potato in and of > itself... heck, they get flamed enough almost every day over the 7O1A and > 7O1YGF and similar situations, I'm sure they don't want to add more of that > on top. > > The 40 meter situation does not apply, incidently. The nature of the 40 > meter allocation is the cause of the split phone operations cited, and since > each Amateur is transmitting (OK, supposed to be transmitting) within their > allocated frequencies, no violation should take place. > Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, [EMAIL PROTECTED] This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] Be Careful What You Wish For
Hmmm, this is an interesting concept. But I don't buy it. The implication being that if something is not overtly declared illegal, then it is legal, suffers from a logical fallacy... namely that it has to be "declared" legal or illegal to be so. Be so as it may... as far as DXCC is concerned, I think that any DX operation that also operates in an illegal or illicit fashion (by the rules of that particular administration), in addition to their legitimate Amateur operation, risks putting Amateur Radio in a bad light by being clumped into the same group with the illegals; and that is not limited to just Freeband operation, incidently. Therefore, should such an operation occur, I can understand where the DXCC desk may have a concern about legitimacy of the entire operation. However, I'm not really sure that the DXCC desk may WANT to have to rule on that. That can become a political hot potato in and of itself... heck, they get flamed enough almost every day over the 7O1A and 7O1YGF and similar situations, I'm sure they don't want to add more of that on top. The 40 meter situation does not apply, incidently. The nature of the 40 meter allocation is the cause of the split phone operations cited, and since each Amateur is transmitting (OK, supposed to be transmitting) within their allocated frequencies, no violation should take place. Now, I don't know if the Chesterfield group actually operated Freeband. I do know that the "Sugar Delta" people promoted the alleged Sable operation, but once the word got out, the promotion collapsed, and I understand that the Sable group denied any plans to operate illegally. So I don't know if we'll ever really know what happened there. Funny thing, my January QST arrived today, and over in "How's DX?" is a long article from W3UR about the Freeband situation (though I believe he talks about the "Alpha Tango" group, which is different from the "SD" group). How prescient he was to write that article for publication two months before it became a hot topic! In any event, it was noted in the article that one of major DXpeditions allegedly kicked one of the amateurs off the operation (sent him back to the boat, is what I think they said) for operating illegally outside of the Amateur bands. 73, ron wn3vaw "New Jersey - the most American of all states. It has everything from wilderness to the Mafia. All the great things and all the worst, for example, Route 22." Jean Shepherd K2ORS (SK), Newark Sunday News, 11 January 1970 - Original Message - From: "James Shryne, N6DHZ" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "DX Chat" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 6:27 PM Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] Be Careful What You Wish For At the risk of being boiled in oil for the following let me preface this by saying I don't support the "Freeband" operations/concept etc. etc. Everyone keeps saying these operations/operators are illegal. If the licensing authority of the host country does not deem it illegal then it would seem to be that the operation is legal. I belive this was the case in Chesterfield and maybe even Sable Isl. I realize for US Amateurs that these kinds of operations would be illegal, but in other countries it may not be considered illegal. Several of the earlier posts, a week or two ago suggested that these combined operations be denied DXCC acceptance. I can't see this being done if the host country does not consider the operations illegal. This would be the same as the DXCC Desk not accepting split 40m contacts since it is illegal for US amateurs to operate phone at below 7.150Mhz. Are the South American stations working below 7.100Mhz Illegal because they would be if they were located in the US? I guess the countries that allow these type of operations may be in violation of some international agreement in which case it should be taken up with the international governing body to apply some sanction to the specific country allowing these operations. I realize this does not address the myriad of other problems that these types of operations can cause. Such as landing on an island without proper permission as was suggested was done by one group or violating a wildlife sanctuary etc. All of which can make it that much harder for licensed operations to get proper permissions. Ok I feel better now, I have my flame resistant suit on and my finger hovering over the send button. 73 & Good DX James Shryne, N6DHZ [EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.qsl.net/n6dhz http://www.sasquatchnet.org Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, [EMAIL PROTECTED] This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, [EMAIL PROTECTED] This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] Be Careful What You Wish For
James N6DHZ wrote: Everyone keeps saying these operations/operators are illegal. If the licensing authority of the host country does not deem it illegal then it would seem to be that the operation is legal. I belive this was the case in Chesterfield... Several of the earlier posts, a week or two ago suggested that these combined operations be denied DXCC acceptance. I can't see this being done if the host country does not consider the operations illegal. But most of the stations they worked WERE illegal James, because the situation which is alleged to exist in New Caledonia certainly does not exist in most other countries. And don't kid yourself - They knew that! This would be the same as the DXCC Desk not accepting split 40m contacts since it is illegal for US amateurs to operate phone at below 7.150Mhz. Are the South American stations working below 7.100Mhz Illegal because they would be if they were located in the US? Not so. This is not an accurate analogy. In the case of 40M split, BOTH stations are operating 100% legally. That's rarely if ever true in freebanding. What I can't understand is why any licensed amateur would WANT to operate freeband? Perhaps some of the Chesterfield or Sable Island crew can explain? 73, John, NT5C. Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, [EMAIL PROTECTED] This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] Be Careful What You Wish For
Not really, and you answered this yourself. 22.72 amps! Of course, you would be using the same type of circuit as for your electric clothes dryer. If you use a double-oven you might even be using a 50 amp circuit. No need for three-phase. John N6JM [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Running 5KW from the average residential place might be hard to do. > Normally to run this type of power you need three-phase primary power and > this is usually not available in residential areas --- in fact it is often > hard to obtain in light-industrial areas. > > Figure it out for yourself, even running a primary power of 220 voltrs, > for just the final alone you would need 5000/220 or 22.72 amps, not counting > the rest of the rig and accessories. > > Tom Orr, W6HT Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, [EMAIL PROTECTED] This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
[DX-CHAT] high power hams
I saw many posts saying it is impossible to run 5 kw on 240 single phase service. An electric range in the kitchen pulls more power than that. I am going out on a limb and name two hams who have admitted they used to run Henry 8 K amps. One drove it with a GLA 1000 dentron and the other drove it with an Ameritron ALS-600. One was AE4N of 3915 and 3898 fame and the other was K4OKA. The latter had the Henry 8 K in his shack when he was visited by Riley during an inspection. I believe this was mentioned in one ARRL article. I heard AE4N brag on 3915 about selling the 8K to a CB'ER. I have never approved of this practice. My amp only runs 1200 or 1300 Watts and I seldom run it.As a matter of fact the AM broadcast station where I work used to run a transmitter that used a 4CX3000A as a linear amp. The input power on 125 percent modulation peaks exceeded 12000 watts input with 5000 watts p.e.p.output on modulation peaks running class AB1. That transmitter ran on 240 v 3 phase.
Re: [DX-CHAT] Be Careful What You Wish For
At the risk of being boiled in oil for the following let me preface this by saying I don't support the "Freeband" operations/concept etc. etc. Everyone keeps saying these operations/operators are illegal. If the licensing authority of the host country does not deem it illegal then it would seem to be that the operation is legal. I belive this was the case in Chesterfield and maybe even Sable Isl. I realize for US Amateurs that these kinds of operations would be illegal, but in other countries it may not be considered illegal. Several of the earlier posts, a week or two ago suggested that these combined operations be denied DXCC acceptance. I can't see this being done if the host country does not consider the operations illegal. This would be the same as the DXCC Desk not accepting split 40m contacts since it is illegal for US amateurs to operate phone at below 7.150Mhz. Are the South American stations working below 7.100Mhz Illegal because they would be if they were located in the US? I guess the countries that allow these type of operations may be in violation of some international agreement in which case it should be taken up with the international governing body to apply some sanction to the specific country allowing these operations. I realize this does not address the myriad of other problems that these types of operations can cause. Such as landing on an island without proper permission as was suggested was done by one group or violating a wildlife sanctuary etc. All of which can make it that much harder for licensed operations to get proper permissions. Ok I feel better now, I have my flame resistant suit on and my finger hovering over the send button. 73 & Good DX James Shryne, N6DHZ [EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.qsl.net/n6dhz http://www.sasquatchnet.org Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, [EMAIL PROTECTED] This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] high power hams
Big AL and "NUKEM"! :-) Haven't heard those calls in a while. I also know another ham that has an 8K sitting "in a closet", or at least he did the last time I asked about it, but he still had never plugged it in. Those things weigh a TON! Don't think the BIG amps aren't out there. I saw with my own eyes a CBer key down 35,000 watts. Yes, that's no missing decimal point. And this was in a mobile! Under the hood of his Suburban he had 6 alternators which were configured to provide 3 phase. I believe "box" contained a 3CX5. He was using a Bird wattmeter with a 50k slug for his "demonstration". Some may find this link interesting: http://www.radiotech.org/messageview.cfm?catid=14&threadid=4426 I couldn't find a picture of the Suburban I saw, but his name is mentioned in that link. It was a sight to see. On a side note, when he keyed down, standing next to 35k gives you a really "freaky" feeling. Very uncomfortable to say the least. Kelly - KE9KD http://www.dx-central.com On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, JAMES ABERCROMBIE wrote: > I saw many posts saying it is impossible to run 5 kw on 240 single phase service. An >electric range in the kitchen pulls more power than that. I am going out on a limb >and name two hams who have admitted they used to run Henry 8 K amps. One drove it >with a GLA 1000 dentron and the other drove it with an Ameritron ALS-600. One was >AE4N of 3915 and 3898 fame and the other was K4OKA. The latter had the Henry 8 K in >his shack when he was visited by Riley during an inspection. I believe this was >mentioned in one ARRL article. I heard AE4N brag on 3915 about selling the 8K to a >CB'ER. I have never approved of this practice. My amp only runs 1200 or 1300 Watts >and I seldom run it. > As a matter of fact the AM broadcast station where I work used to run a transmitter >that used a 4CX3000A as a linear amp. The input power on 125 percent modulation peaks >exceeded 12000 watts input with 5000 watts p.e.p.output on modulation peaks running >class AB1. That transmitter ran on 240 v 3 phase. > Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, [EMAIL PROTECTED] This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
[DX-CHAT] Losing Sleep (was: Be Careful What You Wish For)
On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Ron Notarius WN3VAW wrote: > > In any event, the discussion has kinda veered off the original point, > which was to simply let you know that the bootleggers aren't too happy > with us licensed-types being involved (directly or indirectly) in > interfering in some of their (illegal) operations. I wouldn't lose TOO > much sleep over it... I have a hunch we've already given it more > attention than it's worth. Still, it is something negative sitting out > there on the web, and if we don't keep an eye on it once in a while, it > could come back to haunt us. > > 73, ron wn3vaw > I reserve the loss of sleep for DXpeditions to places I haven't worked yet. :-) Most of the places I need are going to be on grayline propagation, which means I'll have to be on the air at sunrise/sunset. If I get the desire to work all of the Pacific on 80 or 160 meters, I'll lose some sleep to do so. I remember well when 3Y0PI was active, I lost a LOT of sleep. But I also worked ZY0SP, St. Peter and Paul's Rocks, for another new one as an added bonus for staying up late so many nights. For a while I had this weird knack of waking up in the middle of the night, going to the shack, turning on the rig on 80 CW and hearing a station in a country I hadn't worked on that band calling CQ. I'd work him before he got spotted on packet and go back to bed. Seems like I haven't been able to do that since I got DXCC on 80 meters. 73, Zack W9SZ Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, [EMAIL PROTECTED] This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] Be Careful What You Wish For
Incidently, there was someone at Hamvention last Spring who was handing out flyers to everyone in the HARA ice rink grandstand (and probably elsewhere too) advertising an HF amplifier... I don't want to name the company, but the call of the owner starts with the letter "I"... theoretically capable of 7.0 kW output for 400 W of drive, 3.5 kW out for 150 W of drive. However, the amp also requires either 220 V single phase or 380 / 420 V 3 phase. (And yes, I'm sure of those numbers, I have the flyer right here in front of me!) And granted, in all fairness, it is not just being marketed to amateurs, and the flyer also mentions that the Ham Version is limited to 1.5 kW out, 100% duty cycle. But the point is, the amps are available, and if someone has the will and the means, they could sure put together a bad mutha of a station. And if they do so, I hope they enjoy that private and personal chat with Riley! 73, ron wn3vaw "New Jersey - the most American of all states. It has everything from wilderness to the Mafia. All the great things and all the worst, for example, Route 22."Jean Shepherd K2ORS (SK), Newark Sunday News, 11 January 1970 - Original Message - From: ray To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 4:18 PM Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] Be Careful What You Wish For Well put, Tom. To run 5KW Output you would need 8KW input...well beyond the normal single phase service to the average ham shack. I think our friend in Iowa was merely making a shot gun approach statement without any facts to back it up. K6VX snip> Running 5KW from the average residential place might be hard to do. Normally to run this type of power you need three-phase primary power and this is usually not available in residential areas --- in fact it is often hard to obtain in light-industrial areas. Figure it out for yourself, even running a primary power of 220 voltrs, for just the final alone you would need 5000/220 or 22.72 amps, not counting the rest of the rig and accessories. Tom Orr, W6HT
Re: [DX-CHAT] Be Careful What You Wish For
Well... there have been a few documented cases of individuals who have been running extremely high power (ie 5 kW). While I do not recall all the details, I do remember hearing a speech from a very prominent FCC attorney indicating that they had indeed busted someone running that much power, and his shack included 3 Phase commercial power and custom built amplifiers. However, this is the exception by far, not the norm. In any event, the discussion has kinda veered off the original point, which was to simply let you know that the bootleggers aren't too happy with us licensed-types being involved (directly or indirectly) in interfering in some of their (illegal) operations. I wouldn't lose TOO much sleep over it... I have a hunch we've already given it more attention than it's worth. Still, it is something negative sitting out there on the web, and if we don't keep an eye on it once in a while, it could come back to haunt us. 73, ron wn3vaw "New Jersey - the most American of all states. It has everything from wilderness to the Mafia. All the great things and all the worst, for example, Route 22."Jean Shepherd K2ORS (SK), Newark Sunday News, 11 January 1970 - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 3:44 PM Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] Be Careful What You Wish For Running 5KW from the average residential place might be hard to do. Normally to run this type of power you need three-phase primary power and this is usually not available in residential areas --- in fact it is often hard to obtain in light-industrial areas. Figure it out for yourself, even running a primary power of 220 voltrs, for just the final alone you would need 5000/220 or 22.72 amps, not counting the rest of the rig and accessories. Tom Orr, W6HTIn a message dated 12/17/2002 9:22:28 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: They know what they're doing is illegal and they don't care that it'sillegal and they don't care how you feel about it. Just like the many 75meter ops who run 5,000 watts.
Re: [DX-CHAT] Be Careful What You Wish For
Well put, Tom. To run 5KW Output you would need 8KW input...well beyond the normal single phase service to the average ham shack. I think our friend in Iowa was merely making a shot gun approach statement without any facts to back it up. K6VX snip> Running 5KW from the average residential place might be hard to do. Normally to run this type of power you need three-phase primary power and this is usually not available in residential areas --- in fact it is often hard to obtain in light-industrial areas. Figure it out for yourself, even running a primary power of 220 voltrs, for just the final alone you would need 5000/220 or 22.72 amps, not counting the rest of the rig and accessories. Tom Orr, W6HT
Re: [DX-CHAT] Be Careful What You Wish For
Running 5KW from the average residential place might be hard to do. Normally to run this type of power you need three-phase primary power and this is usually not available in residential areas --- in fact it is often hard to obtain in light-industrial areas. Figure it out for yourself, even running a primary power of 220 voltrs, for just the final alone you would need 5000/220 or 22.72 amps, not counting the rest of the rig and accessories. Tom Orr, W6HT In a message dated 12/17/2002 9:22:28 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: They know what they're doing is illegal and they don't care that it's illegal and they don't care how you feel about it. Just like the many 75 meter ops who run 5,000 watts.
Re: [DX-CHAT] Be Careful What You Wish For
Hi Ron Ever heard of Gator Stakes? Same as Free Band, hi hi. JV "many . . . who run 5,000 watts." Really? I must be living in a jaded area. I live in the greater Lansing Michigan area and I have been to many shacks and several contest stations and have not seen such power present. Ron ND5S Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, [EMAIL PROTECTED] This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
[DX-CHAT] Be Careful What You Wish For
Anything over 5W to the ex CBers sounds like 5KW... Wonder how many vanity calls he will try B4 he finds the one he likes. //snipThey know what they're doing is illegal and they don't care that it'sillegal and they don't care how you feel about it. Just like the many 75meter ops who run 5,000 watts.//snip"many . . . who run 5,000 watts."Really? I must be living in a jaded area. I live in the greater LansingMichigan area and I have been to many shacks and several contest stationsand have not seen such power present.Ron ND5SSubscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chatTo post a message, DX related items only, [EMAIL PROTECTED]This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org.
Re: [DX-CHAT] Be Careful What You Wish For
//snip They know what they're doing is illegal and they don't care that it's illegal and they don't care how you feel about it. Just like the many 75 meter ops who run 5,000 watts. //snip "many . . . who run 5,000 watts." Really? I must be living in a jaded area. I live in the greater Lansing Michigan area and I have been to many shacks and several contest stations and have not seen such power present. Ron ND5S Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, [EMAIL PROTECTED] This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] Be Careful What You Wish For
No, my long winded post said that we should clean up our own back yards before we worry about someone else's. 73, Scott, W9AL > > Your long-winded post appears to say that you think the freebanders are > justified, since some hams also break the rules. An interesting concept. > If you follow it in your daily life, I am glad we are not neighbors. > > This philosophy has been used many times to justify breaking the law. It > is at best irresponsible, and at worst, sociopathic. > > Get it straight, the "freebanders" are OUTLAWS! They should be arrested, > charged, and most importantly, put off the air! > > --- Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, [EMAIL PROTECTED] This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] Be Careful What You Wish For
I'm really struggling with this discussion and the amount of verbiage involved. Illegal means against the law; period. It's a lot like pregnant. Either you are, or you aren't. If you are operating illegally on or off the ham bands, your butt belongs in jail. "age and treachery will overcome youth and skill" Outgoing Mail Scanned by Norton Antivirus 2002
Re: [DX-CHAT] Be Careful What You Wish For
On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Scott Manthe wrote: > > > > These people seem to be completely oblivious or ignorant of the fact that > > what they are doing is illegal. > > They know what they're doing is illegal and they don't care that it's > illegal and they don't care how you feel about it. Just like the many 75 > meter ops who run 5,000 watts. > I don't operate 75 meters and I rarely listen there. I've heard people tell me that some hams are running 5,000 watts there but I've never been to their stations to verify it. 97% of my operating is on CW and the other 3% these days has been on the new digital modes. I will work SSB for the Sweepstakes contest so the Society of Midwest Contesters will have a few more points in their cumulative score. (GO SMC!) > > > > Yes, you can extend friendship to a criminal in the hopes of getting the > > person to mend his ways, but what about when he doesn't? I have always > > been legally licensed and have never knowingly done anything illegal with > > my radio equipment. I expect no less of others. > > It's nice that you're so diligent and concientious, Zack. Unfortunately, > many of your fellow amateurs don't hold the rules in nearly as high regard > as you. Take a listen to any band during a major (especially phone) contest > weekend. Do you actually think the guys operating against the band edges and > outside the bandplans don't know what they're doing? How about the guys who > run 10 times as much power as they need to, in direct opposition to part 97? > Anytime you run more power than you have to, you're operating illegally. Are > you sure you've never run afoul of the law? And how about the "Hi-Fi" SSB > guys, who in their minds, don't "technically" break any rules, but certainly > assail good amateur practice by using twice as much spectrum as they need > to? You're making me feel like I'm the only one who DOES follow the rules. No, I've never intentionally broken a law, not even the "minimum power required" rule. I don't own an amp. I have three rigs that run 100 watts barefoot. And I throttle down if the other guy is loud here and gives me a big report. I don't mind getting 559 signal reports. And I know many hams who also follow the laws to the best of their ability. My guess is that the majority of them do. As a guess based on personal experience, the number who break the laws are no more than 20%. That's a minority. It's still not OK in my book, but I'll bet it's less than you think. > > > > > I hope I'm not sounding too harsh, but I didn't grow up in the freebander > > atmosphere. > > Is amateur radio really all that free of the "freebander atmosphere"? Take a > listen to 75 meters on the weekend or just about any pile-up. Ask yourself > how many people you know who run more than (sometimes many times) the legal > limit. Is it better that we break the law because we have a license, or is > it worse? Aren't those hams who knowingly break the rules just as bad as the > freebanders who don't care? I hope I don't sound too harsh, but many of us > amateurs feel that we're better than those freebanders, mostly because we're > licensed. But I contend that quite a few as are just as bad or worse than > they are, because if you work for something, aren't you supposed to respect > it? And I don't want to hear ANY BS about how amateur radio's been dumbed > down and how much harder it was for you to get your license way back when > than it is now. A change in requirements doesn't justify disrespecting the > people in the hobby or the rules that govern it. No matter when you got your > ticket. It's not OK to break the laws, whether you're licensed or not. Amateurs who do should be dealt with. But at least they have licenses issued by their respective governments and their operations aren't TOTALLY illegal. If you get stopped by a policeman for speeding and you're a licensed driver, you get a ticket. If you get stopped for speeding and you don't have a driver's license, you get arrested. If you're a licensed ham and Riley suspects you've done something illegal, he will issue a query. There is a little of the "benefit of the doubt" available there. If you're doing freeband operations, I don't think he's so lenient. > > Too many of us feel like we only need to follow the rules that we want to. > This is a kind freebander attitude and it will certainly do much more harm > to amateur radio than illegal 11 meter operators. > > 73, > Scott, W9AL > Who are these "too many of us"? Like I said, of all the hams in this area that I know, I've only seen one perform any sort of illegal operation (and I told him about it). And I don't live a sheltered life. I've been in many M/S efforts in contests in these here parts. I've probably been in the shacks of most of the DXers and contesters around here. You have to PROVE that a licensed ham is doing something illegal in order to fine or penalize him for it. Freebanders are illegal by nature. You don't h
Re: [DX-CHAT] Be Careful What You Wish For
At 1:08 AM -0600 12/17/02, Scott Manthe wrote: And I don't want to hear ANY BS about how amateur radio's been dumbed down and how much harder it was for you to get your license way back when than it is now. A change in requirements doesn't justify disrespecting the people in the hobby or the rules that govern it. No matter when you got your ticket. Too many of us feel like we only need to follow the rules that we want to. This is a kind freebander attitude and it will certainly do much more harm to amateur radio than illegal 11 meter operators. Well said, Scott! 73, -- hopelessly broken and I have received _no_ help in resolving the problem> _ /~\ The ASCII| J o h n B a s t i n K 8 A J S \ / Ribbon Campaign | [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] X Against HTML | http://www.qsl.net/k8ajs / \ Email! | Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, [EMAIL PROTECTED] This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] Be Careful What You Wish For
On 17 Dec 2002 at 1:08, Scott Manthe wrote: > It's nice that you're so diligent and concientious, Zack. Unfortunately, > many of your fellow amateurs don't hold the rules in nearly as high regard > as you. Take a listen to any band during a major (especially phone) contest > weekend. Do you actually think the guys operating against the band edges and > outside the bandplans don't know what they're doing? How about the guys who > run 10 times as much power as they need to, in direct opposition to part 97? > Anytime you run more power than you have to, you're operating illegally. Are > you sure you've never run afoul of the law? And how about the "Hi-Fi" SSB > guys, who in their minds, don't "technically" break any rules, but certainly > assail good amateur practice by using twice as much spectrum as they need > to? Your long-winded post appears to say that you think the freebanders are justified, since some hams also break the rules. An interesting concept. If you follow it in your daily life, I am glad we are not neighbors. This philosophy has been used many times to justify breaking the law. It is at best irresponsible, and at worst, sociopathic. Get it straight, the "freebanders" are OUTLAWS! They should be arrested, charged, and most importantly, put off the air! --- +-++-++-++-++-+ John L. Sielke |W||2||A||G||N|http://www.w2agn.net [UPDATED] +-++-++-++-++-+Ex-K3HLU,TF2WKT,W7JEF,W4MPC,N4JS Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, [EMAIL PROTECTED] This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org