Re: [Elecraft] Default K3 transmit delay may be too short for slow QRO amplifiers

[Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP]

My amplifier uses a reed relay and a vacuum relay for QSK. It uses the 
so-called "AG6K circuit"  which 
supposedly makes the usual Jennings RJ1A relay operate in 2-3 ms. I 
never had any problems with the default delay of the K3, both before and 
after installing the new synthesizers.


I do recall that with the old synthesizers and an external keyer, 
increasing the delay above the default even a little seriously messed up 
the CW timing. However now I have the new synths. So on reading Wayne's 
announcement I decided to so some testing.


I don't notice ANY difference in CW timing, either with the internal 
keyer or with an N1MM-operated Winkey, with QRQ mode on or off, with TX 
Delay set from 8 to 20 ms., in semi or full QSK mode, up to 40 wpm.


I listened to both the sidetone and the transmitted signal. I didn't 
measure anything with the scope, but I have always been sensitive to CW 
timing, and it sounded the same to me.


So the upshot is that if you have a slow amplifier, you should be able 
to just increase the TX DELAY as needed. And if Bob is right, turn off 
QRQ mode too.


But it would be prudent to check the timing with your particular 
amplifier with a scope before taking my advice!



73,
Victor, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
CWops no. 5
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
On 8 Jun 2018 21:12, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote:



If you are using the internal keyer of the K3 for hand sending,
compensation is automatic.  No need for any adjustment; use any TX DLY
value you need, and the transmitted dot/dash ratios will still be perfect
(I've measured it on a scope).

If using external keying with a WinKey, use the menu setting for "Keying
Compensation" (QSK), or "1st dit extension" (Semi-Breakin).  to apply
matching keying compensation.  Example:

CONFIG: TX DLY 010
Actual measured TX Delay  7-8 ms (with jitter)
Set External Keying Compensation (for QSK) to:  7 ms
Set 1st Dit Extension (semi-breakin) to:  7 ms


If using a microHAM Device with a built-in WinKey, the menu settings for
these values were (unfortunately) moved from the WinKey tab of the Router
software.  Instead, they are now a single setting under the PTT tab, called
"R/T Delay" (improperly documented).  So, in the microHAM Router, PTT tab:

Set R/T Delay to 7 ms


If using a LogiKey K1 or similar:

Set the "K Factor" (keying compensatin) to 7


If using Win-Test with CONFIG:PTT-KEY OFF-DTR for QSK keying over the
serial port DTR pin, or an external keying circuit, set the Keying
Compensation in the Interface Configuration menu to 7 ms (this a new
feature in Win-Test 4.28.0-dev).  If using semi-breakin, set CONFIG:PTT-KEY
to RTS-DTR and tell Win-Test to use a PTT Lead time of 10-20 ms, 0 ms
keying compensation.

Most WinKey/N1MM users can simply rely on setting the WinKey PTT Lead time
to a sufficient value.  Unfortunately, the WinKey PTT lead times are set in
increments of 10 ms (0, 10, 20, 30 ms), despite the menu settings.  If you
ask for 11 ms of PTT delay in a WinKey, you actually get 20 ms of PTT delay.

Note that the K3 will safely ignore any PTT lead time less than TX DLY, so
if you set PTT LEAD to 3 ms you will actually get 7 ms and all elements
(QSK) or the first element (semi break-in) will be shortened by 7 ms.

FYI, the OM Power OM2000A+ non-QSK amplifier manual recommends a TX DLY of
20 ms (!).

Final note:  if using CW QRQ mode, the K3 ignores TX DLY completely, and
you get 4-5 ms of TX DELAY (fixed, with jitter).  Set keying compensation
to 4 ms.

73,
Bob, N6TV
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[Elecraft] Transmit Inhibit

[Clay Autery]

I'm going to use ACC Pin #7 as Transmit Inhibit (High), and the manual 
says this:


"TX INH (Transmit Inhibit Signal)
Pin 7 of the ACC connector can be configured as a
transmit inhibit input by setting CONFIG:TX INH
to LO=Inh (or HI=Inh). Holding pin 7 low (or
high) will then prevent transmit. An external 2.2 to
10 K pull-up resistor (to 5 VDC) is required.
If TX INH is set to OFF, pin 7 reverts to its
default output function, K3S ON (see above)."

This has confused me a bit...  I'm not an electronic expert. The input 
signal is 12 vdc, present all the time EXCEPT when the K3s keys up... 
the amp gets that message and drops the signal to ) vdc...  Not sure how 
to pull off reducing the input from 12 to 5vdc with a single external 
resistor.
I DO know how to do it with a voltage divider  Vout = Vin x 
R2/(R1+R2)  Calculate resistor values, tie them together at one end and 
that end connects to Pin #7 at K3s end.  R1's other end ties to the (+) 
signal in from amp, and R2's other end ties to the ground (conductor on 
Pin #5).


Is there a simpler way to do this with a single resistor?  Am I missing 
something?


And am I in fact reading the manual correctly?  The K3 expects a TTL 
logic level + 5 vdc on Pin #7 to activate inhibit with TX Inh set to 
"high"?  A straight 12vdc exceeds the spec for that pin as an input?  
(When it's used as the K3s ON output to XVERTER, it OUTPUTS +5 VDC)


I'm trying to get this custom cable built for this amp this weekend  
I'd appreciate a little help here.  I don't want to let the smoke out of 
anything


73,

--
__
Clay Autery, KY5G
(318) 518-1389

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 AF knob..

[Martin Sole]

Hmm, "the big three"?

Elecraft, Flex and who's third, Anan or Sun?

:)

Martin, HS0ZED


On 08/06/2018 23:20, Bob Gibson via Elecraft wrote:

GEE..I wonder if the big three would do that?  NOT!

    73s Bob W5RG
  


 On Friday, June 8, 2018, 11:02:10 AM CDT, hawley, charles j jr 
 wrote:
  
  👍


Chuck
KE9UW

Sent from my iPhone, cjack


On Jun 8, 2018, at 9:47 AM, Michael Eberle  wrote:

I just contacted them this week for a broken AF knob and they said they were 
sending a couple at no cost.

73,

Mike KI0HA



On 6/8/2018 08:14, Don Wilhelm wrote:
Linas and all,

I don't know if the policy is still in place, but several years ago, Eric 
stated that defective knobs would be replaced at no cost.  Contact Elecraft 
support.

73,
Don W3FPR


On 6/8/2018 8:25 AM, Linas Balsys wrote:
The same is here. It is the crack in the knob, I can see it. You can try to
tighten up the screw a bit but not too much not to finaly break the knob.
If it is not completely loose you still can find the end stop while turning
very gently and slowly. The best way surely is to get the knob replaced :)
73 Linas LY2H


<>
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 AF knob..

[Bill Frantz]

The West Valley Amateur Radio Association, operating using the 
call K6EI, has known the value of all modes on a band at the 
same time for years. We are all Elecraft for that reason.


I realize that Field Day is not a contest, but if you look at 
the results you can see how our solar powered, QRP operation scores.


73 Bill AE6JV

On 6/8/18 at 6:22 PM, donw...@embarqmail.com (Don Wilhelm) wrote:

The big DXpeditions are using Elecraft gear because they can 
use several on the same band without interference from one to 
the other - the low transmit phase noise of the Elecraft gear 
allows that to happen along with the superior receive performance.


With ARRL Field Day coming up, that factor may be important to 
many Field Day operations.  The ability to operate voice, data 
modes and CW on the same band is possible with Elecraft gear.


Convince your FD club to use all Elecraft gear for that reason.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/8/2018 9:02 PM, Bill Frantz wrote:

(I see the big DXpeditions using Elecraft and sometimes Flex 
gear. I don't see them using the others very often. Perhaps 
I'm missing something.)


---
Bill Frantz| Security is like Government  | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | services. The market doesn't | 16345 
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com | want to pay for them.| Los Gatos, 
CA 95032


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 AF knob..

[Don Wilhelm]

The big DXpeditions are using Elecraft gear because they can use several 
on the same band without interference from one to the other - the low 
transmit phase noise of the Elecraft gear allows that to happen along 
with the superior receive performance.


With ARRL Field Day coming up, that factor may be important to many 
Field Day operations.  The ability to operate voice, data modes and CW 
on the same band is possible with Elecraft gear.


Convince your FD club to use all Elecraft gear for that reason.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/8/2018 9:02 PM, Bill Frantz wrote:

(I see the big DXpeditions using Elecraft and sometimes Flex gear. I 
don't see them using the others very often. Perhaps I'm missing something.)



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 AF knob..

[Bill Frantz]

Well, of the big 5, we know the policy of one of them. That's 
how I got replacement knobs a year or so ago.


(I see the big DXpeditions using Elecraft and sometimes Flex 
gear. I don't see them using the others very often. Perhaps I'm 
missing something.)


73 Bill AE6JV

On 6/8/18 at 9:20 AM, elecraft@mailman.qth.net (Bob Gibson via 
Elecraft) wrote:



GEE..I wonder if the big three would do that?  NOT!

   73s Bob W5RG


On Friday, June 8, 2018, 11:02:10 AM CDT, hawley, charles j jr 
 wrote:

👍

Chuck
KE9UW

Sent from my iPhone, cjack

On Jun 8, 2018, at 9:47 AM, Michael Eberle  wrote:

I just contacted them this week for a broken AF knob and they said they were 
sending a couple at no

cost.


73,

Mike KI0HA


---
Bill Frantz| gets() remains as a monument | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | to C's continuing support of | 16345 
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com | buffer overruns. | Los Gatos, 
CA 95032


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Re: [Elecraft] KAT500 Utility for MAC

[John Hiatt]

Does it have to be that old version?  The current version is at:

http://www.elecraft.com/KAT500/KAT500UtilityOSX_1_14_2_1.zip

John, KC7DRI


From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  on 
behalf of Chris Hallinan 
Sent: Friday, June 8, 2018 3:41 PM
To: 
Subject: [Elecraft] KAT500 Utility for MAC

Not Found

The requested URL /KAT500/KAT500UtilityOSX_1_13_6_17.zip was not found on
this server.
Anyone know where I can find it?

73 de K1AY
Chris

--
Life is like Linux - it never stands still.
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Re: [Elecraft] Default K3 transmit delay may be too short for slow QRO amplifiers

[Don Wilhelm]

With the Elecraft gear (starting with the K3), a sequencer can be 
started with the KEYOUT output and RF held off by TX INHibit until the 
sequencer completes.
Of course, there are other methods, but to my mind, that is the most 
"automatic" method - you operate the transceiver as normal and it "just 
happens".


73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/8/2018 7:46 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
 From experience, in an operation as you describe, a sequencer is almost 
mandatory to assure each item switches as it should and that proper 
feedback on that item to the sequencer to allow it to proceed to the 
next interval and switching.  I don't feel one can relay just on the 
radio to perform this function.  My sequenced EME station put the 
transceiver in the transmit mode as the last item in the timing of 
events.    I don't understand how one can expect a transceiver to supply 
multi sequenced events.


I've fried enough mast mounted preamps, coax relays and caused amp flash 
overs enough times before a proper timed sequencer was employed.   Legal 
limit power on 70 cm can really do nasty things.


73

Bob, K4TAX


On 6/8/2018 12:56 PM, Dimitry Borzenko wrote:

Hi group.
Please understand, this nice transceiver is used not only for HF. but 
also for VHF,UHF and uppp.

So, more TX DLY is needed!
LNAs, polarization switches, PA and transverters in the transmission 
line.

Sequencer is nice device but if U press XMIT button - BIG BAGA BUM :(
I hope Elecraft engineers will add additional  TX DLY.

Tnx a lot.




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Re: [Elecraft] Default K3 transmit delay may be too short for slow QRO amplifiers

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

From experience, in an operation as you describe, a sequencer is almost 
mandatory to assure each item switches as it should and that proper 
feedback on that item to the sequencer to allow it to proceed to the 
next interval and switching.  I don't feel one can relay just on the 
radio to perform this function.  My sequenced EME station put the 
transceiver in the transmit mode as the last item in the timing of 
events.    I don't understand how one can expect a transceiver to supply 
multi sequenced events.


I've fried enough mast mounted preamps, coax relays and caused amp flash 
overs enough times before a proper timed sequencer was employed.   Legal 
limit power on 70 cm can really do nasty things.


73

Bob, K4TAX


On 6/8/2018 12:56 PM, Dimitry Borzenko wrote:

Hi group.
Please understand, this nice transceiver is used not only for HF. but 
also for VHF,UHF and uppp.

So, more TX DLY is needed!
LNAs, polarization switches, PA and transverters in the transmission 
line.

Sequencer is nice device but if U press XMIT button - BIG BAGA BUM :(
I hope Elecraft engineers will add additional  TX DLY.

Tnx a lot.




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Re: [Elecraft] Default K3 transmit delay may be too short for slow QRO amplifiers

[rich hurd WC3T]

"More seriously, I could see a foot switch as a VOX inhibit. Broadcasters
have a “cough button” to mute an otherwise live mic."

Can't you do that with the KX3 in VOX mode but with ACC2 IO set to
"LO=Inh?"  That's what I thought.  I'm far away from my KX3 so I can't test
it.

On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 18:24 Walter Underwood  wrote:

> Maybe you could put a tone generator on the foot switch to bleep yourself.
> Leave VOX on, but stomp on the pedal when you encounter a lid. :-)
>
> More seriously, I could see a foot switch as a VOX inhibit. Broadcasters
> have a “cough button” to mute an otherwise live mic.
>
> wunder
> K6WRU
> Walter Underwood
> CM87wj
> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
>
> > On Jun 8, 2018, at 12:05 PM, Josh Fiden  wrote:
> >
> > My poor impulse control makes it impossible to operate within FCC regs
> using vox during the inevitable lid encounters.
> >
> > 73
> > Josh W6XU
> >
> > Sent from my mobile device
>
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-- 
72,
Rich Hurd / WC3T / DMR: 3142737
PA Army MARS, Northampton County RACES, EPA-ARRL Public Information Officer
for Scouting
Latitude: 40.761621 Longitude: -75.288988  (40°45.68' N 75°17.33' W) Grid:
*FN20is*
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[Elecraft] KAT500 Utility for MAC

[Chris Hallinan]

Not Found

The requested URL /KAT500/KAT500UtilityOSX_1_13_6_17.zip was not found on
this server.
Anyone know where I can find it?

73 de K1AY
Chris

-- 
Life is like Linux - it never stands still.
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Re: [Elecraft] Default K3 transmit delay may be too short for slow QRO amplifiers

[Walter Underwood]

Maybe you could put a tone generator on the foot switch to bleep yourself. 
Leave VOX on, but stomp on the pedal when you encounter a lid. :-)

More seriously, I could see a foot switch as a VOX inhibit. Broadcasters have a 
“cough button” to mute an otherwise live mic.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Jun 8, 2018, at 12:05 PM, Josh Fiden  wrote:
> 
> My poor impulse control makes it impossible to operate within FCC regs using 
> vox during the inevitable lid encounters. 
> 
> 73
> Josh W6XU
> 
> Sent from my mobile device

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Re: [Elecraft] Default K3 transmit delay may be too short for slow QRO amplifiers

[Bob Wilson, N6TV]

On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 12:37 PM, Igor Sokolov  wrote:

> My setup is optimized for traveling/field operation. I do not need
> additional boxes in the form of Winkey or external QSK.


Very good.  I assume you are using CONFIG:PTT-KEY set to RTS-DTR to have
T4RW provide CW and PTT over the K3 USB cable (or serial cable).


> I use external keying from computer through USB-COM adapter.


OK.  For the K3S, or K3 with KIO3B upgrade, no adapter is required (it is
built in to the K3).


> The logger that does CW keying is TR4W. No keying compensation helps to
> achieve correct CW weight if TX Delay in K3 is set to say 20ms and CW speed
> used is above 30WPM.


The TR4W manual  says:

"7.Support for PTT with programmable delay to ensure that antenna relays
are cold-switched."

But I could not find any further documentation showing how to set the CW
PTT delay to 20 ms in TR4W.  If the PTT line is held closed by the
software, no keying compensation is required, and CW output will be fine.
But, if you're trying to do QSK (full break-in) with VOX and external
keying from TR4W, with no PTT output, you will either have to use a
different radio, or use different software like Win-Test that (in
v4.28.0-dev) supports keying compensation, or an external keyer with PTT or
keying compensation, like a WinKey.

Perhaps you can convince the author of TR4W to add keying compensation (
*not* weight), a setting that lengthens every dot or dash by a fixed amount.


> Dependency of CW weight from TX Delay is only inherent in K3. All other
> rigs do not have this dependency.
>

Most rigs will shorten the first dot or dash (semi break-in) or every dot
or dash (QSK full break-in) by a few ms to compensate for the TX delay
setting, the delay between the amp RELAY closure, and the RF output.  Some
rigs may use a hardware "buffer" for external keying, to provide perfect
timing even with a  PTT delay, but I don't know which ones do this (Icom
perhaps).

Again, for hand sending with the internal keyer of the K3, all TX DLY
values work fine, no shortening of RF output.

73,
Bob, N6TV
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Re: [Elecraft] Default K3 transmit delay may be too short for slow QRO amplifiers

[Fred Jensen]

In a simiilar vein, I try and let some newly composed emails ferment 
overnight before pressing SEND. [:-)


73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 6/8/2018 1:19 PM, Clay Autery wrote:

ONE of MANY of my personal reasons NOT to use VOX.  

73,

__
Clay Autery, KY5G
(318) 518-1389

On 08-Jun-18 14:05, Josh Fiden wrote:
My poor impulse control makes it impossible to operate within FCC 
regs using vox during the inevitable lid encounters.


73
Josh W6XU



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Re: [Elecraft] Default K3 transmit delay may be too short for slow QRO amplifiers

[Clay Autery]

ONE of MANY of my personal reasons NOT to use VOX.  

73,

__
Clay Autery, KY5G
(318) 518-1389

On 08-Jun-18 14:05, Josh Fiden wrote:

My poor impulse control makes it impossible to operate within FCC regs using 
vox during the inevitable lid encounters.

73
Josh W6XU

Sent from my mobile device


On Jun 8, 2018, at 10:07 AM, Bill Stravinsky via Elecraft 
 wrote:

Why in the 20 century we need to use foot switch?

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Re: [Elecraft] Foot switches

[Fred Jensen]

Breaking news:  On 8 Jun 2018, the most Googled word was "philtrum."  
Silicon Valley experts are baffled as to the reason.


73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 6/8/2018 12:35 PM, Grant Youngman wrote:

Mostly because it’s sometimes tiring to listen to the coughs, sneezes, shouted 
answers to the spouse in some other room when dinner’s ready, belches, dropped 
tools, shuffling paper, the dog running into the room and barking, and all 
manner of other stuff that ends up on the air.  Plus the inevitable sounds of 
shifting headsets, or fingers distractedly rubbing at the mic cartridge while 
the op picks at that protuberant thing right above the philtrum  …




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Re: [Elecraft] Default K3 transmit delay may be too short for slow QRO amplifiers

[Grant Youngman]

I’m confused.  If you’re in the “field”, are you keying a high power amp with 
relay T/R switching??   Is it possible the problem is associated with the way 
your computer software keys the K3?  Have you tested “all other rigs”?  Perhaps 
it’s a “system” issue? How does your system behave when keying the K3 directly— 
e.g., no computer, just a key — manual or internal keyer.

Grant NQ5T
K3 #2091, KX3 #8342

> On Jun 8, 2018, at 3:37 PM, Igor Sokolov  wrote:
> 
> Dear Bob,
> 
> My setup is optimized for traveling/field operation. I do not need  
> additional boxes in the form of Winkey or external QSK. I use external keying 
> from computer through USB-COM adapter. The logger that does CW keying is 
> TR4W. No keying compensation helps to achieve correct CW weight if TX Delay 
> in K3 is set to say 20ms and CW speed used is above 30WPM. Dependency of CW 
> weight from TX Delay is only inherent in K3. All other rigs do not have this 
> dependency.
> 
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 AF knob..

[Scott]

Mike,

Yep I contacted Elecraft Parts too and they are sending me a new knob at 
no cost.


Don,
I did take the knob off and test the pot and it is fine, so the knob is 
definitely the problem and I'm getting it fixed via an excellent 
Elecraft support policy from a few years ago.  I'm guessing, but I'll 
bet the other manufacturers won't do that.


Thanks Elecraft.

Scott
AD5HS

On 6/8/2018 9:46 AM, Michael Eberle wrote:
I just contacted them this week for a broken AF knob and they said they 
were sending a couple at no cost.


73,

Mike KI0HA


On 6/8/2018 08:14, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Linas and all,

I don't know if the policy is still in place, but several years ago, 
Eric stated that defective knobs would be replaced at no cost. Contact 
Elecraft support.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/8/2018 8:25 AM, Linas Balsys wrote:
The same is here. It is the crack in the knob, I can see it. You can 
try to
tighten up the screw a bit but not too much not to finaly break the 
knob.
If it is not completely loose you still can find the end stop while 
turning
very gently and slowly. The best way surely is to get the knob 
replaced :)

73 Linas LY2H


>

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Re: [Elecraft] Foot switches

[Bill Johnson]

Agree with aaa the comment.

73,
Bill
K9YEQ

https://wrj-tech.com/

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Ralph Parker
Sent: Friday, June 8, 2018 1:27 PM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] Foot switches

 >>Why in the 20 century we need to use foot switch?

>I strongly agree. I HATE foot switches, because I'm very poorly 
coordinated...

I love foot switches (Linemaster, of course!). Started using one with my 
Viking II for a faster CW changeover (instead of 3 switches) in 1958.
Tried VOX when I got my GSB-100, but aaa I didn't like the aaa way 
everyone sounded when they aaa tried to keep VOX from dropping out when 
they weren't aaa finished their thought. Not to mention the clipped 
first syllable (I know, not on the K3).
So it's been foot switch or computer control of PTT for me ever since. A 
total habit by now.

VE7XF
The fastest left foot in the west!

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Re: [Elecraft] Default K3 transmit delay may be too short for slow QRO amplifiers

[Igor Sokolov]

Dear Bob,

My setup is optimized for traveling/field operation. I do not need  
additional boxes in the form of Winkey or external QSK. I use external 
keying from computer through USB-COM adapter. The logger that does CW 
keying is TR4W. No keying compensation helps to achieve correct CW 
weight if TX Delay in K3 is set to say 20ms and CW speed used is above 
30WPM. Dependency of CW weight from TX Delay is only inherent in K3. All 
other rigs do not have this dependency.



73, Igor UA9CDC


08.06.2018 23:12, Bob Wilson, N6TV пишет:
On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 3:22 AM, Igor Sokolov > wrote:


Wayne it is a pity that TX delay setting affects CW timing.
Changing TX delay from default even one or two steps makes CW much
worth. Can you figure out a way to make CW timing independent from
TX delay? With 5 ms TX delay working in many contests I already
had to change a pair of relays in the amplifier. 10-12 ms would be
fine for me. 20 ms will probably suit the majority of users. But 5
ms is way too fast and unfortunately cannot be altered without
spoiling CW sending. I know that I could build external sequencer
but this does not look neat enough especially for portable field
operation. Every other radio I had allowed TX delay adjustment to
at least 20 ms.


Instead of weighting, as Wayne suggested, set "Keying Compensation" or 
"1st dit extension" to match the actual TX DLY.  This will restore 
proper CW timing ratios in the transmitted RF, as you increase TX DLY, 
since every dot or dash (or the first one in a message) will be 
lengthened by a fixed number of ms.


No footswitch is required, since external keying methods can generate 
a leading PTT delay.


If you are using the internal keyer of the K3 for hand sending, 
compensation is automatic.  No need for any adjustment; use any TX DLY 
value you need, and the transmitted dot/dash ratios will still be 
perfect (I've measured it on a scope).


If using external keying with a WinKey, use the menu setting for 
"Keying Compensation" (QSK), or "1st dit extension" (Semi-Breakin).  
to apply matching keying compensation.  Example:


CONFIG: TX DLY 010
Actual measured TX Delay  7-8 ms (with jitter)
Set External Keying Compensation (for QSK) to:  7 ms
Set 1st Dit Extension (semi-breakin) to:  7 ms


If using a microHAM Device with a built-in WinKey, the menu settings 
for these values were (unfortunately) moved from the WinKey tab of the 
Router software.  Instead, they are now a single setting under the PTT 
tab, called "R/T Delay" (improperly documented).  So, in the microHAM 
Router, PTT tab:


Set R/T Delay to 7 ms


If using a LogiKey K1 or similar:

Set the "K Factor" (keying compensatin) to 7


If using Win-Test with CONFIG:PTT-KEY OFF-DTR for QSK keying over the 
serial port DTR pin, or an external keying circuit, set the Keying 
Compensation in the Interface Configuration menu to 7 ms (this a new 
feature in Win-Test 4.28.0-dev).  If using semi-breakin, set 
CONFIG:PTT-KEY to RTS-DTR and tell Win-Test to use a PTT Lead time of 
10-20 ms, 0 ms keying compensation.


Most WinKey/N1MM users can simply rely on setting the WinKey PTT Lead 
time to a sufficient value. Unfortunately, the WinKey PTT lead times 
are set in increments of 10 ms (0, 10, 20, 30 ms), despite the menu 
settings.  If you ask for 11 ms of PTT delay in a WinKey, you actually 
get 20 ms of PTT delay.


Note that the K3 will safely ignore any PTT lead time less than TX 
DLY, so if you set PTT LEAD to 3 ms you will actually get 7 ms and all 
elements (QSK) or the first element (semi break-in) will be shortened 
by 7 ms.


FYI, the OM Power OM2000A+ non-QSK amplifier manual recommends a TX 
DLY of 20 ms (!).


Final note:  if using CW QRQ mode, the K3 ignores TX DLY completely, 
and you get 4-5 ms of TX DELAY (fixed, with jitter).  Set keying 
compensation to 4 ms.


73,
Bob, N6TV


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Re: [Elecraft] Foot switches

[Grant Youngman]

> On Jun 8, 2018, at 2:27 PM, Ralph Parker  wrote:
> 
> >>Why in the 20 century we need to use foot switch?
> 


Mostly because it’s sometimes tiring to listen to the coughs, sneezes, shouted 
answers to the spouse in some other room when dinner’s ready, belches, dropped 
tools, shuffling paper, the dog running into the room and barking, and all 
manner of other stuff that ends up on the air.  Plus the inevitable sounds of 
shifting headsets, or fingers distractedly rubbing at the mic cartridge while 
the op picks at that protuberant thing right above the philtrum  … 

Not everyone uses a downward expander to keep ersatz stuff minimized, and even 
that doesn’t work for everything.  Broadcasters (and AM hams), of course leave 
the carrier and audio up all the time.  But they frequently have the courtesy 
(an anit-vox?) to have a “mic mute” or “cough button” located within reach.

I’ll take PTT or a large quality foot-switch anytime … clean, simple, not 
fiddly.  Don’t like VOX.  Never did.

Grant NQ5T
K3 #2091, KX3 #8342
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Re: [Elecraft] Default K3 transmit delay may be too short for slow QRO amplifiers

[Josh Fiden]

My poor impulse control makes it impossible to operate within FCC regs using 
vox during the inevitable lid encounters. 

73
Josh W6XU

Sent from my mobile device

> On Jun 8, 2018, at 10:07 AM, Bill Stravinsky via Elecraft 
>  wrote:
> 
> Why in the 20 century we need to use foot switch?

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[Elecraft] Foot switches

[Ralph Parker]

>>Why in the 20 century we need to use foot switch?

I strongly agree. I HATE foot switches, because I'm very poorly 

coordinated...

I love foot switches (Linemaster, of course!). Started using one with my 
Viking II for a faster CW changeover (instead of 3 switches) in 1958.
Tried VOX when I got my GSB-100, but aaa I didn't like the aaa way 
everyone sounded when they aaa tried to keep VOX from dropping out when 
they weren't aaa finished their thought. Not to mention the clipped 
first syllable (I know, not on the K3).
So it's been foot switch or computer control of PTT for me ever since. A 
total habit by now.


VE7XF
The fastest left foot in the west!

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Re: [Elecraft] Default K3 transmit delay may be too short for slow QRO amplifiers

[Bob Wilson, N6TV]

On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 3:22 AM, Igor Sokolov  wrote:

> Wayne it is a pity that TX delay setting affects CW timing. Changing TX
> delay from default even one or two steps makes CW much worth. Can you
> figure out a way to make CW timing independent from TX delay? With 5 ms TX
> delay working in many contests I already had to change a pair of relays in
> the amplifier. 10-12 ms would be fine for me. 20 ms will probably suit the
> majority of users. But 5 ms is way too fast and unfortunately cannot be
> altered without spoiling CW sending. I know that I could build external
> sequencer but this does not look neat enough especially for portable field
> operation. Every other radio I had allowed TX delay adjustment to at least
> 20 ms.


Instead of weighting, as Wayne suggested, set "Keying Compensation" or "1st
dit extension" to match the actual TX DLY.  This will restore proper CW
timing ratios in the transmitted RF, as you increase TX DLY, since every
dot or dash (or the first one in a message) will be lengthened by a fixed
number of ms.

No footswitch is required, since external keying methods can generate a
leading PTT delay.

If you are using the internal keyer of the K3 for hand sending,
compensation is automatic.  No need for any adjustment; use any TX DLY
value you need, and the transmitted dot/dash ratios will still be perfect
(I've measured it on a scope).

If using external keying with a WinKey, use the menu setting for "Keying
Compensation" (QSK), or "1st dit extension" (Semi-Breakin).  to apply
matching keying compensation.  Example:

CONFIG: TX DLY 010
Actual measured TX Delay  7-8 ms (with jitter)
Set External Keying Compensation (for QSK) to:  7 ms
Set 1st Dit Extension (semi-breakin) to:  7 ms


If using a microHAM Device with a built-in WinKey, the menu settings for
these values were (unfortunately) moved from the WinKey tab of the Router
software.  Instead, they are now a single setting under the PTT tab, called
"R/T Delay" (improperly documented).  So, in the microHAM Router, PTT tab:

Set R/T Delay to 7 ms


If using a LogiKey K1 or similar:

Set the "K Factor" (keying compensatin) to 7


If using Win-Test with CONFIG:PTT-KEY OFF-DTR for QSK keying over the
serial port DTR pin, or an external keying circuit, set the Keying
Compensation in the Interface Configuration menu to 7 ms (this a new
feature in Win-Test 4.28.0-dev).  If using semi-breakin, set CONFIG:PTT-KEY
to RTS-DTR and tell Win-Test to use a PTT Lead time of 10-20 ms, 0 ms
keying compensation.

Most WinKey/N1MM users can simply rely on setting the WinKey PTT Lead time
to a sufficient value.  Unfortunately, the WinKey PTT lead times are set in
increments of 10 ms (0, 10, 20, 30 ms), despite the menu settings.  If you
ask for 11 ms of PTT delay in a WinKey, you actually get 20 ms of PTT delay.

Note that the K3 will safely ignore any PTT lead time less than TX DLY, so
if you set PTT LEAD to 3 ms you will actually get 7 ms and all elements
(QSK) or the first element (semi break-in) will be shortened by 7 ms.

FYI, the OM Power OM2000A+ non-QSK amplifier manual recommends a TX DLY of
20 ms (!).

Final note:  if using CW QRQ mode, the K3 ignores TX DLY completely, and
you get 4-5 ms of TX DELAY (fixed, with jitter).  Set keying compensation
to 4 ms.

73,
Bob, N6TV
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Re: [Elecraft] Default K3 transmit delay may be too short for slow QRO amplifiers

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

On 2018-06-08 10:53 AM, j...@kk9a.com wrote:
> Does computer keying with Winkey still perform properly with
> longer TX delays?

If you use the PTT output of WinKey with computer keying, the
delay is a non factor.  Set TX Lead in WinKey as needed for
your amplifier and the WinKey keyer will assert PTT *before*
the CW output (key closure) by the desired value.  Allowing
PTT to "lead" the output will not result in any character
clipping.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 2018-06-08 10:53 AM, j...@kk9a.com wrote:

I am sure that just adding a few ms will work with most amplifiers but my
question was what exactly happens to CW. Is it just the first dit that gets
clipped.  Does computer keying with Winkey still perform properly with
longer TX delays?

John KK9A

Sent via the Samsung Galaxy 7 edge, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone.

On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 10:48 AM, Wayne Burdick  wrote:


Also, a reminder: this is nothing new. We’re just clarifying a delay
offset that has existed for a long time. There have been no recent firmware
changes.

It would be possible to modify the K3’s keying algorithm to allow for much
longer delays (say, 0 to 200 ms). Of course this would significantly shift
CW RF output in time relative to keying input.

Fortunately, very few amplifiers require more that a few ms of extra
delay.

73,
Wayne
N6KR



http://www.elecraft.com


On Jun 8, 2018, at 7:33 AM, Wayne Burdick  wrote:

The delay can be set from 8-20 ms at present. Given the small time

offset, this is actually 5-17 ms (approx). Use small values if possible.


With external keying, you can generally compensate by reducing the

device’s weighting.


Wayne


http://www.elecraft.com


On Jun 8, 2018, at 5:02 AM, "j...@kk9a.com"  wrote:

I agree that 5ms is too fast for many amplifiers. Is computer sent CW

also

spoiled when increasing the delay?  Does it only effect QSK or all
transmissions?

John KK9A

Igor Sokolov ua9cdc wrote:

Wayne it is a pity that TX delay setting affects CW timing. Changing TX
delay from default even one or two steps makes CW much worth. Can you
figure out a way to make CW timing independent from TX delay? With 5 ms
TX delay working in many contests I already had to change a pair of
relays in the amplifier. 10-12 ms would be fine for me. 20 ms will
probably suit the majority of users. But 5 ms is way too fast and
unfortunately cannot be altered without spoiling CW sending. I know that
I could build external sequencer but this does not look neat enough
especially for portable field operation. Every other radio I had allowed
TX delay adjustment to at least 20 ms.

73, Igor UA9CDC

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Re: [Elecraft] Default K3 transmit delay may be too short for slow QRO amplifiers

[Dimitry Borzenko]

Hi group.
Please understand, this nice transceiver is used not only for HF. but 
also for VHF,UHF and uppp.

So, more TX DLY is needed!
LNAs, polarization switches, PA and transverters in the transmission 
line.

Sequencer is nice device but if U press XMIT button - BIG BAGA BUM :(
I hope Elecraft engineers will add additional  TX DLY.

Tnx a lot.


-- Original Message --
From: "Wayne Burdick" 
To: "j...@kk9a.com" 
Cc: ua9...@mail.com; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: 08.06.2018 17:48:26
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Default K3 transmit delay may be too short for 
slow QRO amplifiers


Also, a reminder: this is nothing new. We’re just clarifying a delay 
offset that has existed for a long time. There have been no recent 
firmware changes.


It would be possible to modify the K3’s keying algorithm to allow for 
much longer delays (say, 0 to 200 ms). Of course this would 
significantly shift CW RF output in time relative to keying input.


Fortunately, very few amplifiers require more that a few ms of extra 
delay.


73,
Wayne
N6KR



http://www.elecraft.com


On Jun 8, 2018, at 7:33 AM, Wayne Burdick  wrote:

The delay can be set from 8-20 ms at present. Given the small time 
offset, this is actually 5-17 ms (approx). Use small values if 
possible.


With external keying, you can generally compensate by reducing the 
device’s weighting.


Wayne


http://www.elecraft.com


On Jun 8, 2018, at 5:02 AM, "j...@kk9a.com"  wrote:

I agree that 5ms is too fast for many amplifiers. Is computer sent CW 
also

spoiled when increasing the delay?  Does it only effect QSK or all
transmissions?

John KK9A

Igor Sokolov ua9cdc wrote:

Wayne it is a pity that TX delay setting affects CW timing. Changing 
TX

delay from default even one or two steps makes CW much worth. Can you
figure out a way to make CW timing independent from TX delay? With 5 
ms

TX delay working in many contests I already had to change a pair of
relays in the amplifier. 10-12 ms would be fine for me. 20 ms will
probably suit the majority of users. But 5 ms is way too fast and
unfortunately cannot be altered without spoiling CW sending. I know 
that

I could build external sequencer but this does not look neat enough
especially for portable field operation. Every other radio I had 
allowed

TX delay adjustment to at least 20 ms.

73, Igor UA9CDC

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Re: [Elecraft] Default K3 transmit delay may be too short for slow QRO amplifiers

[Bill Stravinsky via Elecraft]

 I have a foot switch but only use it generally on Sunday of a weekend contest. 
 That's when my throat needs unfleming or whatever that iswhen your voice is 
overworked but I always just use vox if possible.  In the older days it was PTT 
but with a desk mic and not a foot switch.But my foot switch is always there if 
I need or want it, just have to drag it forward a little and place it in the 
"spot" where my foot can get to it.
I'm not a phone guy but when I bought my K3 in 2009 I opted for the dvk and 
that is more valuable than a footswitch will ever be.  Too badI only get to use 
it twice a year in ARRL & CQ dx phone tests, hi.
BillK3WJV

On Friday, June 8, 2018, 4:26:22 AM EDT, Jim Brown 
 wrote:  
 
 On 6/8/2018 1:05 AM, Dimitry Borzenko wrote:
> Why in the 20 century we need to use foot switch? 

Hi Dimitry,

I strongly agree. I HATE foot switches, because I'm very poorly 
coordinated. :) I've never used anything but VOX in my own station for 
any mode, and I do RTTY, CW, and SSB contesting, run FT8, JT65, JT9, 
MSK144 for small signal work. With every rig I've owned since 2003 (when 
I had time to back on the air) I've been able to set the delay between 
transmitted RF and the DC signal to pull in the TR relay for a power amp 
to the value that my amps have needed. The high quality, well designed 
amps I've used have never needed more than 8 msec.

That's me. Everyone is different. :)

73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Out of band data?

[Jim Rhodes]

Other possibilities: What you are hearing is not US based so FCC rules do
not apply, what you are hearing is DV and therefore belongs in the phone
band. I did not see the original post so I don't know if the poster
actually decoded the transmissions or not.

On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 11:38 PM, ANDY DURBIN  wrote:

> "I'm pretty sure I am seeing people running data WELL beyond the band plan
> into the SSB section of several bands... 20m for almost certain."
>
>
> Quite possibly the RF second harmonic of an in-band 40 m signal. It's
> unlikely that anyone would hope to work a data mode QSO far away from the
> accepted normal frequencies. 40 m data is allowed up to 7.125 and twice
> that is well into 20 m phone allocation. Even the typical FT8 upper limit
> of about 7.076 has a second harmonic inside 20 m phone allocation.
>
>
> 73,
>
> Andy, k3wyc
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-- 
Jim K0XU
j...@rhodesend.net
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 AF knob..

[Bob Gibson via Elecraft]

GEE..I wonder if the big three would do that?  NOT!

   73s Bob W5RG
 

On Friday, June 8, 2018, 11:02:10 AM CDT, hawley, charles j jr 
 wrote:  
 
 👍

Chuck
KE9UW

Sent from my iPhone, cjack 

> On Jun 8, 2018, at 9:47 AM, Michael Eberle  wrote:
> 
> I just contacted them this week for a broken AF knob and they said they were 
> sending a couple at no cost.
> 
> 73,
> 
> Mike KI0HA
> 
> 
>> On 6/8/2018 08:14, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>> Linas and all,
>> 
>> I don't know if the policy is still in place, but several years ago, Eric 
>> stated that defective knobs would be replaced at no cost.  Contact Elecraft 
>> support.
>> 
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>> 
>>> On 6/8/2018 8:25 AM, Linas Balsys wrote:
>>> The same is here. It is the crack in the knob, I can see it. You can try to
>>> tighten up the screw a bit but not too much not to finaly break the knob.
>>> If it is not completely loose you still can find the end stop while turning
>>> very gently and slowly. The best way surely is to get the knob replaced :)
>>> 73 Linas LY2H
>>> 
>>> 
>>> <>
>>> __
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> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 AF knob..

[hawley, charles j jr]

👍

Chuck
KE9UW

Sent from my iPhone, cjack 

> On Jun 8, 2018, at 9:47 AM, Michael Eberle  wrote:
> 
> I just contacted them this week for a broken AF knob and they said they were 
> sending a couple at no cost.
> 
> 73,
> 
> Mike KI0HA
> 
> 
>> On 6/8/2018 08:14, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>> Linas and all,
>> 
>> I don't know if the policy is still in place, but several years ago, Eric 
>> stated that defective knobs would be replaced at no cost.  Contact Elecraft 
>> support.
>> 
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>> 
>>> On 6/8/2018 8:25 AM, Linas Balsys wrote:
>>> The same is here. It is the crack in the knob, I can see it. You can try to
>>> tighten up the screw a bit but not too much not to finaly break the knob.
>>> If it is not completely loose you still can find the end stop while turning
>>> very gently and slowly. The best way surely is to get the knob replaced :)
>>> 73 Linas LY2H
>>> 
>>> 
>>> <>
>>> __
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>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>>> Message delivered to donw...@embarqmail.com
>>> 
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> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Default K3 transmit delay may be too short for slow QRO amplifiers

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

For the last few years I used an Ameritron AL-80B, 4 years old and one 
with the open frame relay.   Measured time from command to relay closure 
and settling was in the order of 15 ms.  For this I set my K3S for 20 ms 
without concern and no evidence of hot switching.    The new AL amps are 
reported to be faster with different relays.


But best of all  {AL-80B was sold} and a new KPA500 added to the desk.  
SWEET!   Nothing to go "clack"and won't look back.


73
Bob, K4TAX


On 6/8/2018 9:48 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

Also, a reminder: this is nothing new. We’re just clarifying a delay offset 
that has existed for a long time. There have been no recent firmware changes.

It would be possible to modify the K3’s keying algorithm to allow for much 
longer delays (say, 0 to 200 ms). Of course this would significantly shift CW 
RF output in time relative to keying input.

Fortunately, very few amplifiers require more that a few ms of extra delay.

73,
Wayne
N6KR



http://www.elecraft.com


On Jun 8, 2018, at 7:33 AM, Wayne Burdick  wrote:

The delay can be set from 8-20 ms at present. Given the small time offset, this 
is actually 5-17 ms (approx). Use small values if possible.

With external keying, you can generally compensate by reducing the device’s 
weighting.

Wayne


http://www.elecraft.com


On Jun 8, 2018, at 5:02 AM, "j...@kk9a.com"  wrote:

I agree that 5ms is too fast for many amplifiers. Is computer sent CW also
spoiled when increasing the delay?  Does it only effect QSK or all
transmissions?

John KK9A

Igor Sokolov ua9cdc wrote:

Wayne it is a pity that TX delay setting affects CW timing. Changing TX
delay from default even one or two steps makes CW much worth. Can you
figure out a way to make CW timing independent from TX delay? With 5 ms
TX delay working in many contests I already had to change a pair of
relays in the amplifier. 10-12 ms would be fine for me. 20 ms will
probably suit the majority of users. But 5 ms is way too fast and
unfortunately cannot be altered without spoiling CW sending. I know that
I could build external sequencer but this does not look neat enough
especially for portable field operation. Every other radio I had allowed
TX delay adjustment to at least 20 ms.

73, Igor UA9CDC

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Re: [Elecraft] Default K3 transmit delay may be too short for slow QRO amplifiers

[j...@kk9a.com]

I am sure that just adding a few ms will work with most amplifiers but my
question was what exactly happens to CW. Is it just the first dit that gets
clipped.  Does computer keying with Winkey still perform properly with
longer TX delays?

John KK9A

Sent via the Samsung Galaxy 7 edge, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone.

On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 10:48 AM, Wayne Burdick  wrote:

> Also, a reminder: this is nothing new. We’re just clarifying a delay
> offset that has existed for a long time. There have been no recent firmware
> changes.
>
> It would be possible to modify the K3’s keying algorithm to allow for much
> longer delays (say, 0 to 200 ms). Of course this would significantly shift
> CW RF output in time relative to keying input.
>
> Fortunately, very few amplifiers require more that a few ms of extra
> delay.
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
> 
> http://www.elecraft.com
>
> > On Jun 8, 2018, at 7:33 AM, Wayne Burdick  wrote:
> >
> > The delay can be set from 8-20 ms at present. Given the small time
> offset, this is actually 5-17 ms (approx). Use small values if possible.
> >
> > With external keying, you can generally compensate by reducing the
> device’s weighting.
> >
> > Wayne
> >
> > 
> > http://www.elecraft.com
> >
> >> On Jun 8, 2018, at 5:02 AM, "j...@kk9a.com"  wrote:
> >>
> >> I agree that 5ms is too fast for many amplifiers. Is computer sent CW
> also
> >> spoiled when increasing the delay?  Does it only effect QSK or all
> >> transmissions?
> >>
> >> John KK9A
> >>
> >> Igor Sokolov ua9cdc wrote:
> >>
> >> Wayne it is a pity that TX delay setting affects CW timing. Changing TX
> >> delay from default even one or two steps makes CW much worth. Can you
> >> figure out a way to make CW timing independent from TX delay? With 5 ms
> >> TX delay working in many contests I already had to change a pair of
> >> relays in the amplifier. 10-12 ms would be fine for me. 20 ms will
> >> probably suit the majority of users. But 5 ms is way too fast and
> >> unfortunately cannot be altered without spoiling CW sending. I know that
> >> I could build external sequencer but this does not look neat enough
> >> especially for portable field operation. Every other radio I had allowed
> >> TX delay adjustment to at least 20 ms.
> >>
> >> 73, Igor UA9CDC
> >>
> >> __
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Re: [Elecraft] Default K3 transmit delay may be too short for slow QRO amplifiers

[Wayne Burdick]

Also, a reminder: this is nothing new. We’re just clarifying a delay offset 
that has existed for a long time. There have been no recent firmware changes.

It would be possible to modify the K3’s keying algorithm to allow for much 
longer delays (say, 0 to 200 ms). Of course this would significantly shift CW 
RF output in time relative to keying input. 

Fortunately, very few amplifiers require more that a few ms of extra delay. 

73,
Wayne 
N6KR



http://www.elecraft.com

> On Jun 8, 2018, at 7:33 AM, Wayne Burdick  wrote:
> 
> The delay can be set from 8-20 ms at present. Given the small time offset, 
> this is actually 5-17 ms (approx). Use small values if possible. 
> 
> With external keying, you can generally compensate by reducing the device’s 
> weighting. 
> 
> Wayne 
> 
> 
> http://www.elecraft.com
> 
>> On Jun 8, 2018, at 5:02 AM, "j...@kk9a.com"  wrote:
>> 
>> I agree that 5ms is too fast for many amplifiers. Is computer sent CW also
>> spoiled when increasing the delay?  Does it only effect QSK or all
>> transmissions?
>> 
>> John KK9A
>> 
>> Igor Sokolov ua9cdc wrote:
>> 
>> Wayne it is a pity that TX delay setting affects CW timing. Changing TX
>> delay from default even one or two steps makes CW much worth. Can you
>> figure out a way to make CW timing independent from TX delay? With 5 ms
>> TX delay working in many contests I already had to change a pair of
>> relays in the amplifier. 10-12 ms would be fine for me. 20 ms will
>> probably suit the majority of users. But 5 ms is way too fast and
>> unfortunately cannot be altered without spoiling CW sending. I know that
>> I could build external sequencer but this does not look neat enough
>> especially for portable field operation. Every other radio I had allowed
>> TX delay adjustment to at least 20 ms.
>> 
>> 73, Igor UA9CDC
>> 
>> __
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 AF knob..

[Michael Eberle]

I just contacted them this week for a broken AF knob and they said they 
were sending a couple at no cost.


73,

Mike KI0HA


On 6/8/2018 08:14, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Linas and all,

I don't know if the policy is still in place, but several years ago, 
Eric stated that defective knobs would be replaced at no cost.  
Contact Elecraft support.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/8/2018 8:25 AM, Linas Balsys wrote:
The same is here. It is the crack in the knob, I can see it. You can 
try to
tighten up the screw a bit but not too much not to finaly break the 
knob.
If it is not completely loose you still can find the end stop while 
turning
very gently and slowly. The best way surely is to get the knob 
replaced :)

73 Linas LY2H


>

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Re: [Elecraft] Default K3 transmit delay may be too short for slow QRO amplifiers

[Wayne Burdick]

The delay can be set from 8-20 ms at present. Given the small time offset, this 
is actually 5-17 ms (approx). Use small values if possible. 

With external keying, you can generally compensate by reducing the device’s 
weighting. 

Wayne 


http://www.elecraft.com

> On Jun 8, 2018, at 5:02 AM, "j...@kk9a.com"  wrote:
> 
> I agree that 5ms is too fast for many amplifiers. Is computer sent CW also
> spoiled when increasing the delay?  Does it only effect QSK or all
> transmissions?
> 
> John KK9A
> 
> Igor Sokolov ua9cdc wrote:
> 
> Wayne it is a pity that TX delay setting affects CW timing. Changing TX
> delay from default even one or two steps makes CW much worth. Can you
> figure out a way to make CW timing independent from TX delay? With 5 ms
> TX delay working in many contests I already had to change a pair of
> relays in the amplifier. 10-12 ms would be fine for me. 20 ms will
> probably suit the majority of users. But 5 ms is way too fast and
> unfortunately cannot be altered without spoiling CW sending. I know that
> I could build external sequencer but this does not look neat enough
> especially for portable field operation. Every other radio I had allowed
> TX delay adjustment to at least 20 ms.
> 
> 73, Igor UA9CDC
> 
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] Default K3 transmit delay may be too short for slow QRO amplifiers

[hawley, charles j jr]

We’re thinking that the first CW character is shortened by a longer delay 
(QSK), and that is the issue...not that a longer delay is prevented?
Is that what I’m reading?
QSK with a foot switch sounds interesting to watch...

Chuck
KE9UW

Sent from my iPhone, cjack 

> On Jun 8, 2018, at 9:02 AM, Clay Autery  wrote:
> 
> M even without a firmware change, my TX DLY already has the range 
> from "NOR 8ms" to "020" (8-20 ms).  Granted, that 20ms MAY be somewhat 
> shorter than 20ms, as described by Wayne regarding the 8ms "NOR" setting.
> I suspect that they will now push this up in the queue of things to mod in 
> the next firmware release.
> 
> Strange (to me) that so many find foot switch use in CW such a non-starter.  
> Since I uses one exclusively in SSB, I guess it is only natural for me to use 
> one in CW...
> 
> 73,
> 
> __
> Clay Autery, KY5G
> (318) 518-1389
> 
>> On 08-Jun-18 05:22, Igor Sokolov wrote:
>> Wayne it is a pity that TX delay setting affects CW timing. Changing TX 
>> delay from default even one or two steps makes CW much worth. Can you figure 
>> out a way to make CW timing independent from TX delay? With 5 ms TX delay 
>> working in many contests I already had to change a pair of relays in the 
>> amplifier. 10-12 ms would be fine for me. 20 ms will probably suit the 
>> majority of users. But 5 ms is way too fast and unfortunately cannot be 
>> altered without spoiling CW sending. I know that I could build external 
>> sequencer but this does not look neat enough especially for portable field 
>> operation. Every other radio I had allowed TX delay adjustment to at least 
>> 20 ms.
>> 
>> 73, Igor UA9CDC
>> 
>> 08.06.2018 4:43, Wayne Burdick пишет:
>>> It has come to our attention (thanks to N7YK and N6TV) that the default 
>>> value of CONFIG:TX DLY, 8 ms, may actually be closer to 5 ms.
>>> 
>>> The associated T/R control firmware hasn’t changed in a long time, so 
>>> hopefully there aren’t many users affected (or we would have heard about 
>>> it). The shorter delay may be related to the improved KSYN3A synth, which 
>>> switches faster than the original. We’re looking into this, and will update 
>>> the displayed value to reflect the actual value.
>>> 
>>> Details:
>>> 
>>> When using a QRO amp with the K3, the KEY OUT line from the radio is used 
>>> to key the amplifier, setting it up to receive RF. Since the K3 has very 
>>> fast QSK, the amp’s T/R control circuitry has to be similarly fast.
>>> 
>>> Those of you who are using KPA500s and KPA1500s need not be concerned about 
>>> the K3’s fast QSK speed, since our amps use PIN diode T/R switching. They 
>>> can easily keep up with the K3 at any code speed and with the default 
>>> setting of the CONFIG:TX DLY menu entry.
>>> 
>>> However, some other amps, especially older ones, use slow T/R relays. If 
>>> the transceiver generates RF before the amp is ready, this might result in 
>>> key clicks.
>>> 
>>> (In practice there’s a bit of a grace period because the RF keying envelope 
>>> rises very slowly. It’s a "raised-cosine sigmoid," resulting in the 
>>> transceiver itself having incredibly clean keying sidebands. See K9YC white 
>>> paper on this topic.)
>>> 
>>> If you suspect your amp has a slow T/R relay, you should do a listening 
>>> test, or better yet have someone else listen from a good distance. If you 
>>> (or they) hear any evidence of clicks, increase the value of CONFIG:TX DLY.
>>> 
>>> Use the lowest setting that eliminates the clicks. CW keying at higher code 
>>> speeds may be affected if the value is too high. Other modes not using fast 
>>> QSK will generally be unaffected (voice and data).
>>> 
>>> An alternative to increasing TX DLY is to use a foot switch, as do many 
>>> users of old amps regardless of transceiver type.
>>> 
>>> 73,
>>> Wayne
>>> N6KR
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Default K3 transmit delay may be too short for slow QRO amplifiers

[Clay Autery]

M even without a firmware change, my TX DLY already has the 
range from "NOR 8ms" to "020" (8-20 ms).  Granted, that 20ms MAY be 
somewhat shorter than 20ms, as described by Wayne regarding the 8ms 
"NOR" setting.
I suspect that they will now push this up in the queue of things to mod 
in the next firmware release.


Strange (to me) that so many find foot switch use in CW such a 
non-starter.  Since I uses one exclusively in SSB, I guess it is only 
natural for me to use one in CW...


73,

__
Clay Autery, KY5G
(318) 518-1389

On 08-Jun-18 05:22, Igor Sokolov wrote:
Wayne it is a pity that TX delay setting affects CW timing. Changing 
TX delay from default even one or two steps makes CW much worth. Can 
you figure out a way to make CW timing independent from TX delay? With 
5 ms TX delay working in many contests I already had to change a pair 
of relays in the amplifier. 10-12 ms would be fine for me. 20 ms will 
probably suit the majority of users. But 5 ms is way too fast and 
unfortunately cannot be altered without spoiling CW sending. I know 
that I could build external sequencer but this does not look neat 
enough especially for portable field operation. Every other radio I 
had allowed TX delay adjustment to at least 20 ms.


73, Igor UA9CDC

08.06.2018 4:43, Wayne Burdick пишет:
It has come to our attention (thanks to N7YK and N6TV) that the 
default value of CONFIG:TX DLY, 8 ms, may actually be closer to 5 ms.


The associated T/R control firmware hasn’t changed in a long time, so 
hopefully there aren’t many users affected (or we would have heard 
about it). The shorter delay may be related to the improved KSYN3A 
synth, which switches faster than the original. We’re looking into 
this, and will update the displayed value to reflect the actual value.


Details:

When using a QRO amp with the K3, the KEY OUT line from the radio is 
used to key the amplifier, setting it up to receive RF. Since the K3 
has very fast QSK, the amp’s T/R control circuitry has to be 
similarly fast.


Those of you who are using KPA500s and KPA1500s need not be concerned 
about the K3’s fast QSK speed, since our amps use PIN diode T/R 
switching. They can easily keep up with the K3 at any code speed and 
with the default setting of the CONFIG:TX DLY menu entry.


However, some other amps, especially older ones, use slow T/R relays. 
If the transceiver generates RF before the amp is ready, this might 
result in key clicks.


(In practice there’s a bit of a grace period because the RF keying 
envelope rises very slowly. It’s a "raised-cosine sigmoid," resulting 
in the transceiver itself having incredibly clean keying sidebands. 
See K9YC white paper on this topic.)


If you suspect your amp has a slow T/R relay, you should do a 
listening test, or better yet have someone else listen from a good 
distance. If you (or they) hear any evidence of clicks, increase the 
value of CONFIG:TX DLY.


Use the lowest setting that eliminates the clicks. CW keying at 
higher code speeds may be affected if the value is too high. Other 
modes not using fast QSK will generally be unaffected (voice and data).


An alternative to increasing TX DLY is to use a foot switch, as do 
many users of old amps regardless of transceiver type.


73,
Wayne
N6KR


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 AF knob..

[Don Wilhelm]

Linas and all,

I don't know if the policy is still in place, but several years ago, 
Eric stated that defective knobs would be replaced at no cost.  Contact 
Elecraft support.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/8/2018 8:25 AM, Linas Balsys wrote:

The same is here. It is the crack in the knob, I can see it. You can try to
tighten up the screw a bit but not too much not to finaly break the knob.
If it is not completely loose you still can find the end stop while turning
very gently and slowly. The best way surely is to get the knob replaced :)
73 Linas LY2H


<>
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 AF knob..

[Linas Balsys]

The same is here. It is the crack in the knob, I can see it. You can try to
tighten up the screw a bit but not too much not to finaly break the knob.
If it is not completely loose you still can find the end stop while turning
very gently and slowly. The best way surely is to get the knob replaced :)
73 Linas LY2H


<>
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[Elecraft] Default K3 transmit delay may be too short for slow QRO amplifiers

[j...@kk9a.com]

I agree that 5ms is too fast for many amplifiers. Is computer sent CW also
spoiled when increasing the delay?  Does it only effect QSK or all CW
transmissions?

John KK9A

Igor Sokolov ua9cdc wrote:

Wayne it is a pity that TX delay setting affects CW timing. Changing TX
delay from default even one or two steps makes CW much worth. Can you
figure out a way to make CW timing independent from TX delay? With 5 ms
TX delay working in many contests I already had to change a pair of
relays in the amplifier. 10-12 ms would be fine for me. 20 ms will
probably suit the majority of users. But 5 ms is way too fast and
unfortunately cannot be altered without spoiling CW sending. I know that
I could build external sequencer but this does not look neat enough
especially for portable field operation. Every other radio I had allowed
TX delay adjustment to at least 20 ms.

73, Igor UA9CDC

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Re: [Elecraft] Default K3 transmit delay may be too short for slow QRO amplifiers

[Igor Sokolov]

Wayne it is a pity that TX delay setting affects CW timing. Changing TX 
delay from default even one or two steps makes CW much worth. Can you 
figure out a way to make CW timing independent from TX delay? With 5 ms 
TX delay working in many contests I already had to change a pair of 
relays in the amplifier. 10-12 ms would be fine for me. 20 ms will 
probably suit the majority of users. But 5 ms is way too fast and 
unfortunately cannot be altered without spoiling CW sending. I know that 
I could build external sequencer but this does not look neat enough 
especially for portable field operation. Every other radio I had allowed 
TX delay adjustment to at least 20 ms.


73, Igor UA9CDC

08.06.2018 4:43, Wayne Burdick пишет:

It has come to our attention (thanks to N7YK and N6TV) that the default value 
of CONFIG:TX DLY, 8 ms, may actually be closer to 5 ms.

The associated T/R control firmware hasn’t changed in a long time, so hopefully 
there aren’t many users affected (or we would have heard about it). The shorter 
delay may be related to the improved KSYN3A synth, which switches faster than 
the original. We’re looking into this, and will update the displayed value to 
reflect the actual value.

Details:

When using a QRO amp with the K3, the KEY OUT line from the radio is used to 
key the amplifier, setting it up to receive RF. Since the K3 has very fast QSK, 
the amp’s T/R control circuitry has to be similarly fast.

Those of you who are using KPA500s and KPA1500s need not be concerned about the 
K3’s fast QSK speed, since our amps use PIN diode T/R switching. They can 
easily keep up with the K3 at any code speed and with the default setting of 
the CONFIG:TX DLY menu entry.

However, some other amps, especially older ones, use slow T/R relays. If the 
transceiver generates RF before the amp is ready, this might result in key 
clicks.

(In practice there’s a bit of a grace period because the RF keying envelope rises very 
slowly. It’s a "raised-cosine sigmoid," resulting in the transceiver itself 
having incredibly clean keying sidebands. See K9YC white paper on this topic.)

If you suspect your amp has a slow T/R relay, you should do a listening test, 
or better yet have someone else listen from a good distance. If you (or they) 
hear any evidence of clicks, increase the value of CONFIG:TX DLY.

Use the lowest setting that eliminates the clicks. CW keying at higher code 
speeds may be affected if the value is too high. Other modes not using fast QSK 
will generally be unaffected (voice and data).

An alternative to increasing TX DLY is to use a foot switch, as do many users 
of old amps regardless of transceiver type.

73,
Wayne
N6KR



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Re: [Elecraft] Default K3 transmit delay may be too short for slow QRO amplifiers

[Jim Brown]

On 6/8/2018 1:05 AM, Dimitry Borzenko wrote:
Why in the 20 century we need to use foot switch? 


Hi Dimitry,

I strongly agree. I HATE foot switches, because I'm very poorly 
coordinated. :) I've never used anything but VOX in my own station for 
any mode, and I do RTTY, CW, and SSB contesting, run FT8, JT65, JT9, 
MSK144 for small signal work. With every rig I've owned since 2003 (when 
I had time to back on the air) I've been able to set the delay between 
transmitted RF and the DC signal to pull in the TR relay for a power amp 
to the value that my amps have needed. The high quality, well designed 
amps I've used have never needed more than 8 msec.


That's me. Everyone is different. :)

73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Default K3 transmit delay may be too short for slow QRO amplifiers

[Dimitry Borzenko]

Hello.
Why in the 20 century we need to use foot switch?
Why not to do longer TX delay?
Why I can not set 200mS TX DLY ?
For QSK operation or for use with new fast switched TX/RX relays or PIN 
diodes user can to set minimum TX DLY.
Today is possible to change only firmware and do not need to do any 
hardware changes.

TRX mast be more flexible.
You can say , What about CW??.
Nothing , in winkeyer possible to set long TX DLY why in K3S is 
impossible?

All possible, need only wish to do.

Best Wishes.


-- Original Message --
From: "Wayne Burdick" 
To: "Elecraft Reflector" 
Sent: 08.06.2018 2:43:13
Subject: [Elecraft] Default K3 transmit delay may be too short for slow 
QRO amplifiers


It has come to our attention (thanks to N7YK and N6TV) that the default 
value of CONFIG:TX DLY, 8 ms, may actually be closer to 5 ms.


The associated T/R control firmware hasn’t changed in a long time, so 
hopefully there aren’t many users affected (or we would have heard 
about it). The shorter delay may be related to the improved KSYN3A 
synth, which switches faster than the original. We’re looking into 
this, and will update the displayed value to reflect the actual value.


Details:

When using a QRO amp with the K3, the KEY OUT line from the radio is 
used to key the amplifier, setting it up to receive RF. Since the K3 
has very fast QSK, the amp’s T/R control circuitry has to be similarly 
fast.


Those of you who are using KPA500s and KPA1500s need not be concerned 
about the K3’s fast QSK speed, since our amps use PIN diode T/R 
switching. They can easily keep up with the K3 at any code speed and 
with the default setting of the CONFIG:TX DLY menu entry.


However, some other amps, especially older ones, use slow T/R relays. 
If the transceiver generates RF before the amp is ready, this might 
result in key clicks.


(In practice there’s a bit of a grace period because the RF keying 
envelope rises very slowly. It’s a "raised-cosine sigmoid," resulting 
in the transceiver itself having incredibly clean keying sidebands. See 
K9YC white paper on this topic.)


If you suspect your amp has a slow T/R relay, you should do a listening 
test, or better yet have someone else listen from a good distance. If 
you (or they) hear any evidence of clicks, increase the value of 
CONFIG:TX DLY.


Use the lowest setting that eliminates the clicks. CW keying at higher 
code speeds may be affected if the value is too high. Other modes not 
using fast QSK will generally be unaffected (voice and data).


An alternative to increasing TX DLY is to use a foot switch, as do many 
users of old amps regardless of transceiver type.


73,
Wayne
N6KR



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