Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft's source code

[Robert Vargas-KP4Y via Elecraft]

Kev, I can't agree more with you, excellent response. I'm also amazed with some 
of the responses under this thread. I wonder what their reaction would have 
been if back in the day Yaesu or Kenwood had sold them an hermetically sealed 
radio to keep them from experimenting with their radio as they see fit or 
stealing their trade secret. I would argue that's actually a little against the 
spirit of ham radio. BTW, since the new generation of SDRs perform all main 
functions, such as modulation, mixing,filtering, etc. numerically within a 
chip, experimenting with their firmware/software will be pretty much the main 
way to tinker with these radios. However, I totally understand the decision to 
use open source is a business prerogative of Elecraft, which is the reason why 
I also have an Apache Labs radio to experiment with. That platform has many 
volunteer developing firmware and software and, after frequent updates, nothing 
has gotten broken beyond repair thus far.  

73,
Robert-KP4Y/W4



Sent from my iPhone

> On May 12, 2017, at 4:46 PM, Kevin - K4VD  wrote:
> 
> ​And we certainly don't want science experiments in ham radio. Oh no.​
> Someone might get hurt.
> 
> ​Someone asked about open source code for Elecraft. Answering him with,
> no... you might break something, is a lousy answer.
> 
> Companies can choose one way or the other. I'm not arguing that point. It
> really is a decision for CEOs and CFOs and owners and bored directors.
> While I'm aware of one open source Elecraft project (scary, isn't it) I'm
> not expecting them open up their code for all to see. But as a community of
> hams I am amazed at how we are shooting this guy's idea down dead. Then
> kicking it. Then maybe shooting it again instead of commiserating with him
> about all the cool things that might be missed because things are closed.
> 
> 73,
> Kev, K4VD
> Reforming Curmudgeon
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Re: [Elecraft] NVIS HF vs VHF line-of-sight & CB

[Robert Vargas-KP4Y via Elecraft]

Clay,

Do have a horse in this race? I believe Mr. Brown can defend himself. I agree 
with other gentleman that Jim can be very offensive in his responses sometimes. 
That has been well documented in this forum and others. It's against the spirit 
of ham radio and you are sanctioning that type of conduct with your response.

73,
Robert-W4/KP4Y

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 30, 2017, at 5:43 PM, Walter Underwood  wrote:
> 
> The potential Cascadia earthquake could be 9.0. That means that every tower 
> will fall, maybe even those built like this CHP/CalOES tower.
> 
> http://www.oesnews.com/going-towering-heights-keep-emergency-communications-flowing/
>  
> 
> 
> That is why I suggested easily erected wire antennas and small beams, like a 
> 10m Moxon. After the big one, it will be Field Day, not “flip the switch on 
> the linear”.
> 
> Regular practice with field antennas will be more useful preparation than a 
> big antenna farm. Maybe some regular exercises with a Par EndFedZ antenna, or 
> even SOTA activations.
> 
> http://www.lnrprecision.com/endfedz/ 
> 
> More info on the potential Cascadia earthquake.
> 
> http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/07/20/the-really-big-one 
> 
> 
> wunder
> K6WRU
> Walter Underwood
> CM87wj
> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
> 
>> On Apr 30, 2017, at 1:22 PM, Bill Frantz  wrote:
>> 
>> I have always wondered how towers hold up during earthquakes. Being able to 
>> work with ad-hoc antennas seems a good attribute for any emergency plan.
>> 
>> 73 Bill AE6JV
>> 
>>> On 4/30/17 at 11:34 AM, kev...@coho.net wrote:
>>> 
>>> Please try NVIS on 40 or 80 meters.  You'll find you can cover most of the 
>>> state with its use.  Plus the antennas can be ad hoc - tossed into trees or 
>>> even an old fence line.
>> ---
>> Bill Frantz| I don't have high-speed  | Periwinkle
>> (408)356-8506  | internet. I have DSL.| 16345 Englewood Ave
>> www.pwpconsult.com |  | Los Gatos, CA 95032
>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] [OT] end-fed halfwave antennas

[Robert Vargas-KP4Y via Elecraft]

Agree...I'm a big fan of EFHW. I have made comparisons between an HFHW with a 
short radial and 1/4 WL with a few radials and the EFHW beats the 1/4 WL 100% 
hands down. This is a great example of empirical results speaking louder than 
theoretical predictions. 

73,
Robert-KP4Y/W4 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 14, 2017, at 1:19 PM, Gil G. via Elecraft  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> I will second Guy here.
> The best antenna I have ever used is the vertical EFHW. I never used a 
> counterpoise wire, never felt that tingling in your fingers you might feel 
> with a random wire and a metal key.
> I have used 100mW to 500mW regularly with end feds with great results, single 
> hop up to 1300 miles, 5K miles on 1W.
> I say that having built all kinds of antennas and used them in all sorts of 
> configurations, random wires, with and without counterpoises, slopers, 
> inverted Vs, dipole, Windom, magnetic loops, quad, short whips, yagi, and 
> except for the beams nothing beats the EFHW!
> A horizontal dipole might perform as well but they are rarely high enough to 
> perform as well, except of course for NVIS on the lower bands, and then, a 
> horizontal EFHW will work as well.
> The only antenna that came close in performance was a large magnetic loop.
> Whatever the theory says, I am talking about real in-the-field performance 
> where nothing comes close.
> Gil
> AK4YH & F4WBY
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft black friday

[Robert Vargas-KP4Y via Elecraft]

> 

On Nov 26, 2016, at 8:01 PM, Bill  wrote:
> 
> You will not get this one-on-one attention from the so called "big 
> manufacturers."

Just for the record, I keep hearing this argument on this reflector, but it 
seems like nobody ever backs this up with the specific issues. While I agree 
that Elecraft's customer service is outstanding, I have never had any problems 
with the customer service from the "big manufacturers" 

Yaesu replaced an OLED on my FTDX5K free of charge after 4 years and Kenwood 
fixed a problem with the ALC free of charge on my TS-590S sometime after the 
warranty expired. 

Someone will claim that they were morally (not contractually) obligated to 
correct the problems because these are know issues on both of these 
transceivers. Regardless, the point is that they provide the customer service 
when I needed it and they took responsibility for the problems. I know that 
there are folks who haven't had the same experience as me and I know that there 
will be some folks that have had negative experiences with Elecraft (i have 
seen some emails on this reflector) 

I believe that one can be a huge fan of Elecraft without losing objectivity.

73,
Robert-KP4Y/W4
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] [PX3] Keyboard, Mouse, Thumb Drive and Knob Support

[Robert Vargas-KP4Y via Elecraft]

Joe, 

I commend you for your ingenuity and experimentation efforts. As a PX3 user, 
I'm very interested in some of these ideas. The only thing that I hate about 
the PX3 is the need to tap the "SELECT" button to QSY to the marker frequency. 
Many times I end up moving the PX3 all over the table while trying to tap this 
button. 

Please don't get discourage by some rude people on this reflector. This is 
basically the same group of "contradictorians" and kool aid drinkers that will 
never suggest or let alone try anything to advance the state of art.

73,
Robert-KP4Y/W4

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 5, 2016, at 10:26 AM, Bill  wrote:
> 
> Exactly what I have been looking for and trying to design and build! I will 
> use an Arduino Mega and a USB host shield to put this together!  Thanks for 
> showing the idea. Now, when Elecraft puts in the software, a portable KX3 
> will be more useful since we can program all kinds of macros to be accessed 
> from the keyboard. Thanks!
> 
> Thumb crafted from my iPhone
> 
> On Jun 4, 2016, at 6:22 PM, wickedbeernut  wrote:
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft Centric

[Robert Vargas-KP4Y via Elecraft]

Guys,

Most of us all loyal Elecraft customers that love the company and their 
products. This type of post provides valuable feedback to Elecraft that will 
enable them to understand the type of feature that we would like to see in 
future products. Many of these features are only possible (at least 
economically feasible) using a direct-sampling SDR architecture. It would be 
very sad to see Elecraft fall behind the competition just because we gave them 
the false impression that we are too happy with our K3s and KX3s, combined with 
Elecraft's excellent customer support, to want to see technological innovation 
in their next generation of product. A good example of this would be Ten-Tec. I 
guess their clients didn't ask for more as long as they got the "legendary 
QSK". Of course, Wayne and Eric will not let that happen!

73,
Robert-KP4Y/W4

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 2, 2016, at 3:45 PM, Dave Cole  wrote:
> 
> I have to agree with AB7E here, I enjoy some of the off topic things,
> and for those that I don't, I delete...
> -- 
> 73's, and thanks,
> Dave (NK7Z)
> 
> For software/hardware reviews see:
> http://www.nk7z.net
> 
> For MixW support see:
> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info
> 
> For SSTV help see:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MM-SSTV/info
> 
> 
>> On Mon, 2016-05-02 at 11:19 -0700, David Gilbert wrote:
>> Thankfully you don't get to make that call, and Eric has already
>> laid 
>> out the guidelines describing to what extent he considers pro/con 
>> comments on other rigs to be appropriate for this list.  For me, I
>> find 
>> it very valuable to understand how my K3 stacks up to other rigs as
>> long 
>> as such posts don't dominate the list.  I prefer not to live in a
>> silo.
>> 
>> Dave   AB7E
>> 
>> 
>>> On 5/2/2016 10:42 AM, Harry Yingst via Elecraft wrote:
>>> 
>>> I also have been thinking this lately
>>> If it's not an Elecraft product then please use the appropriate
>>> forum.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>From: Ken G Kopp 
>>>   To: g...@ka1j.com; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>>>   Sent: Monday, May 2, 2016 12:39 PM
>>>   Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft Centric
>>> 
>>> Well-said, Gary ...
>>> 
>>> This was a topic at our local coffee gathering this AM.
>>> 
>>> 73
>>> 
>>> Ken - K0PP
>>> 
>>> 73
>>> 
>>> Ken, K0PP
 On May 2, 2016 10:30, "Gary Smith"  wrote:
 
 
 Folks,
 
 Till now I've kept my thoughts to myself regarding some of the
 lengthy threads here, discussing other radios/Competition for
 Elecraft products. I personally find these threads irritating and
 here is why:
 
 This is the only place on the internet where I can find answers
 to my
 questions about the K3 and K3s I own and I don't like seeing it
 used
 as a platform for discussing the pros & Cons of non Elecraft
 radios.
 
 I can't imagine going to an Icom forum and discussing at length
 my
 and other's opinions about Elecraft or any other manufacturer.
 The
 only reason I would dream of going to any brand specific forum is
 to
 hear information on that manufacturer's radios.
 
 Before I joined this forum close to 10 years ago, I was on the
 TenTec
 reflector, reading daily as I wanted to buy one of the newer
 radios
 with better hearing than my Corsair II. At that time I was
 considering the Orion line. I had been disappointed with how that
 company at the time, was not handling some of the long term
 complaints I was reading on their reflector about a lack of
 updates
 and issues with end of life parts being soon unobtanium. With
 that
 being a real concern to me, I looked to threads on the eHam
 forums
 and read about Elecraft in the discussions and found this
 reflector.
 
 I used this Elecraft forum as a learning tool before buying my
 first
 K3 and appreciated the dedication of the members and then to my
 pleasant surprise to find the owners of the company were
 frequent,
 often daily contributors to the threads. It took me awhile to
 realize
 I wasn't interested in a K1 or K2 but the K3 was going to fit my
 needs and it was made in America and I wasn't going to buy from
 overseas if what I want was made here. That an option to buy a
 kit
 was included made it a lock for me to buy the K3 kit with most
 all of
 the options available.
 
 But my point being what I said that above; I turned to this forum
 to
 hear about Elecraft products and issues, not to read lengthy
 discussions about competitors products. I still consider that is
 the
 purpose of this forum and I am bemused why people tout other
 equipment here, it's just bad form. I would consider myself being
 rude and a jerk if I went to the Icom forum and started threads
 about
 how wonderful my Elecraft XYZ was.
 

Re: [Elecraft] Sherwood's receiver performance table updated

[Robert Vargas-KP4Y via Elecraft]

> On Apr 27, 2016, at 9:31 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV  wrote

> Adam adds a lot to the discussion.  The 7300 is actually a "hybrid"
> DSR ... direct down conversion being used to drive the SDR "back end"
> typical of Icom's current generation of transceivers.  In essence,
> the direct sampling front end replaces the traditional analog up-
> conversion front end and is responsible for a much "cleaner" (less
> phase noise, etc.) transceiver.  The selectivity, AGC and features
> are derived from the 36 KHz DSP "back end".



Joe, I know this thread was closed earlier today, but I just wanted to clarify 
that the IC-7300 is a "pure" direct-sampling SDR. The architecture that you 
described is more in line with direct-conversion SDRs such as the KX3. 
I also asked myself why ICOM did not go the extra mile and provided more than 
one receiver on the IC-7300 since the whole spectrum is available on a 
direct-sampling SDR. The only reason that occurred to me is that its FPGA is 
not big enough to handled/process the stream of data arriving from the ADC that 
is necessary to produce more than one of receiver (slices).

73,
Robert-KP4Y/W4

Sent from my iPhone

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Re: [Elecraft] Sherwood's receiver performance table updated

[Robert Vargas-KP4Y via Elecraft]

Joe, I have an MSEE, so I perfectly understand the design aspects and math 
behind a direct-sampling SDR. That's why I stated previously that this 
architecture has some wrinkles that will eventually be ironed out as more 
capable and affordable ( this is a key factor to be competitive in the  amateur 
radio market) ADC and DSP chips become available in the future. Also, just that 
we are clear, I'm familiar with the way how the ADC overload issue that you are 
describing would manifest in a direct-sampling SDR. However, I'm yet to 
experience this issue during actual operating conditions. 

BTW, I don't see the need for preselector filter as a deficiency in a 
direct-sampling architecture. That would be sort of equivalent to seeing the 
need for roofing filters in the K3 to put out impressive blocking dynamic range 
numbers as a deficiency.

Finally, I have seen great reviews about the Flex-6300, and I'm actually 
impressed by the fact that it has not preselector filters. However, as 
satisfied Elecraft customer, I'm confident they will be able to produce a much 
better implementation of direct-sampling radio in the no so distant future.

73,
Robert-KP4Y/W4

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 26, 2016, at 11:35 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV <li...@subich.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 4/26/2016 10:15 PM, Robert Vargas-KP4Y via Elecraft wrote:
>> Just that you know, K9CT has one of the finest contesting station in
> > the US. He has switched to direct-sampling SDRs (Flex-6700). Just ask
> > him if this architecture is 5 years away from being competitive.
> 
> While I do not know for sure, I suspect K9CT is using bandpass filters
> and stubs to prevent inter-station interference in his multi-multi
> operation just as he did when he used conventional transceivers.  With
> properly designed bandpass filters, stubs and the preselectors in his
> 6700s he's not likely to have a severe overload issue unless he happens
> to be close to some high power AM stations (on 160 meters) and even
> then indications are that a good highpass filter and 10 to 15 dB of
> attenuation will resolve the problems with a 16 bit ADC.
> 
> I have not heard any reports of large multi-multi stations switching to
> direct sampling transceivers in areas of Europe where the 40 meter SW
> broadcast was a problem for many decades.
> 
> The point is that direct conversion receivers need either good filters
> *ahead of the ADC*, attenuation or both to prevent problems.  When one
> uses a Flex 6300 *which has no preselector*,  Flex 6500 on multiple
> bands (which bypasses the preselector), an ELAD DUO which has no
> preselector, etc. one must make a choice between sensitivity and
> dynamic range.  The ARRL lab tests show that, Sherwood's tests show
> that, Adam Farson's noise power ratio testing shows that, and other
> reviewers hint at the problem but they simply don't understand direct
> sampling well enough to recognize its limits when they see them.
> 
> One needs to understand the nature of direct sampling receivers and the
> way they react to overload to recognize the behavior but the test data
> is unequivocal.  16 bit ADCs are probably 4 to 6 bits "short" of being
> able to handle worst case signal levels while simultaneously providing
> maximum sensitivity (MDS of -135 to -140 dBm in 500 Hz) and fully broad
> band performance (multiple slice receivers on multiple amateur bands).
> 
> 73,
> 
>  ... Joe, W4TV
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Sherwood's receiver performance table updated

[Robert Vargas-KP4Y via Elecraft]

> On Apr 26, 2016, at 8:08 PM, Kevin Stover  wrote:

> I'm curious why is direct sampling SDR's like the 7300 are supposed to be the 
> second coming why Icom stuck with the traditional superhet architecture on 
> it's "flagship" 7851? Maybe they realize the technology is at least 5 years 
> away from being competitive. Everybody is ignoring W4TV's 800lb Gorilla, ADC 
> overload.


What suggests you that direct-sampling SDRs are 5 years away from being 
competitive? Elecraft will likely have moved to this architecture in less time 
than that to remain competitive. I suspect that one of the reason Icom stuck 
with the superheat on the IC-7851 is because this product was already in 
production by the time they made the decision to design a direct-sampling SDR. 
Now this is all speculation. What matters is that many of us who have high-end 
direct-sampling SDRs haven't experienced the overload issues. I don't doubt 
some operators have (maybe W4TV one of them), but these are probably isolated 
case. BTW, all receivers have weakness (every design has trade-offs), including 
the ones designed by Elecraft (I can hear images on KX3 sometimes). Just that 
you know, K9CT has one of the finest contesting station in the US. He has 
switched to direct-sampling SDRs (Flex-6700). Just ask him if this architecture 
is 5 years away from being competitive.

73,
Robert-KP4Y/W4
Sent from my iPhone

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Re: [Elecraft] Sherwood's receiver performance table updated

[Robert Vargas-KP4Y via Elecraft]

> I'm curious why is direct sampling SDR's like the 7300 are supposed to be the 
> second coming why Icom stuck with the traditional superhet architecture on 
> it's "flagship" 7851? Maybe they realize the technology is at least 5 years 
> away from being competitive. Everybody is ignoring W4TV's 800lb Gorilla, ADC 
> overload



What suggests you that direct-sampling SDRs are 5 years away from being 
competitive? Elecraft will likely have moved to this architecture in less time 
than that to remain competitive. I suspect that one of the reason Icom stuck 
with the superheat on the IC-7851 is because this product was already in 
production by the time they made the decision to design a direct-sampling SDR. 
Now this is all speculation. What matters is that many of us who have high-end 
direct-sampling SDRs haven't experienced the overload issues. I don't doubt 
some operators have (maybe W4TV one of them), but these are probably isolated 
case. BTW, all receivers have weakness (every design has trade-offs), including 
the ones designed by Elecraft (I can hear images on KX3 sometimes). Just that 
you know, K9CT has one of the finest contesting station in the US. He has 
switched to direct-sampling SDRs (Flex-6700). Just ask him if this architecture 
is 5 years away from being competitive.

73,
Robert-KP4Y/W4


Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 26, 2016, at 8:08 PM, Kevin Stover  wrote:
> 
> Ditto we still don't use them.
> Our users have a choice of laptop or iPad/Surface other than a desktop thin 
> client on our VM Ware network.
> 90% choose the Win7 laptop. They're more expensive, slower, and break more 
> often than the thin client but not as often as the iPads. The Surface's are 
> new so no experience base with them yet. Our hardware group absolutely hate 
> touch screens. I'm a Network Engineer...I have no use for them either.
> 
> My brother does IT for a school district that equipped all of their middle 
> school kids with cutting edge iPads. 700 of them. My brother had to get good 
> at replacing the very expensive coated touch screens that the evil empire 
> said mere mortals couldn't replace. He got no help from Apple other than 
> expensive parts. That experiment lasted three years and they switched to 
> Chrome books.
> 
> I guarantee as sure as I'm sitting here *that touch screen will fail within a 
> year...if not sooner*, and you've got no chance to fix it yourself. I can 
> order parts from Elecraft for all my rigs and fix them. No sweat.
> 
> I'm curious why is direct sampling SDR's like the 7300 are supposed to be the 
> second coming why Icom stuck with the traditional superhet architecture on 
> it's "flagship" 7851? Maybe they realize the technology is at least 5 years 
> away from being competitive. Everybody is ignoring W4TV's 800lb Gorilla, ADC 
> overload.
> 
>> On 4/26/2016 5:28 PM, Clay Autery wrote:
>> Coat it however you want...  Doesn't stop dirt and grime being put on
>> the screen possibly scratching and/or gooping up the corners and edges...
>> 
>> I've been in IS/IT for 25+ years...  Screens are not for touching.
>> 
>> Bottom Line...  I'll stick with buttons, dials, and switches, thank you.  :)
>> 
>> __
>> Clay Autery, KG5LKV
>> MONTAC Enterprises
>> (318) 518-1389
> 
> 
> -- 
> R. Kevin Stover
> AC0H
> ARRL
> FISTS #11993
> SKCC #215
> NAQCC #3441
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Sherwood's receiver performance table updated

[Robert Vargas-KP4Y via Elecraft]

Yep, I agree and I know you understand my point 

73,
Robert-KP4Y/W4

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 26, 2016, at 12:00 AM, Wes <wes_n...@triconet.org> wrote:
> 
> I'm not smackin' this tar baby except to note that a direct sampling 
> radio*is* a heterodyne radio.
> 
>> On 4/25/2016 8:19 PM, Robert Vargas-KP4Y via Elecraft wrote:
>> I agree that comparisons between an heterodyne radio and direct-sampling 
>> radio is not like comparing apples vs apples.
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Sherwood's receiver performance table updated

[Robert Vargas-KP4Y via Elecraft]

I agree that comparisons between an heterodyne radio and direct-sampling radio 
is not like comparing apples vs apples. Each of these 
philosophies/architectures has has advantages and disadvantages at this time, 
but I'm pretty sure that all future amateur radio transceivers (any radio for 
that matter) will eventually be direct-sampling SDRsSimilar arguments have 
been had in the past (some are still ongoing) about competing technologies such 
as tubes vs. transistor, quartz cristal vs. synthesizers, etc...The difference 
is that direct-sampling SDRs, though a much newer philosophy/architecture, only 
have a few wrinkles that should easily be ironed out as more capable and 
affordable chips (ADCs and DSP) become available.
Honestly, I don't understand these claims about a direct-sampling SDR 
overloading so easily. Is this based on personal experience or theory? Of 
course, I would totally expect this to happen with an SDR kit based upon an 
8-bit ADC. However, I have an Anan SDR (16 bits) and I'm yet to experience 
these issues. Besides this, what percentage of the total amateur radio 
community live near high-power broadcast stations? Does it really make sense to 
engineer products based upon unlikely scenarios that will likely increase 
production costs while diminishing/limiting additional features? I love 
Elecraft products (have or have had all major ones; K3, KX3/PX3/KXPA100, 
KPA500), but have to admit that direct-sampling offers some features that 
Elecraft won't be able to offer with a heterodyne architecture. But, I would 
imagine that Elecraft already has a direct-sampling SDR on the drawing board 
and this is exciting because I know that it'll beat anything that is in the 
market right now.
73,Robert-KP4Y/W4       

On Monday, April 25, 2016 9:40 PM, Clay Autery  wrote:
 

 I know next to nothing about radios, but here's my $0.02 anyway...

1) My K3s/P3 combo is the first purchase in 20 years or more that I've
had absolutely NO buyer's remorse... not even a hint, nada, none...
2) My K3s makes me WANT to become the best operator I can... This arrow
is wayyy better than the Indian right now and for the forseeable future.
3) NO ONE has ever made a single comment to me negative about the K3s or
Elecraft...
4) I consistently get comments on my signal from my QSOs that it is
clean, super, fills the room, full, broadcast quality, etc, etc, et
al...  and I'm only 100w on a loop.
5) NO ONE at Yaesu, Icomm, or Kenwood ever called me to help me figure
out what I needed when I was ready to order.
6) Elecraft is USA...    ;-)

__
Clay Autery, KG5LKV
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 4/25/2016 6:08 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
>> Jim Brown  wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon,4/25/2016 1:34 PM, lstavenhagen wrote:
>>> Wow, looks like Icom finally made a radio with performance close to the
>>> humble K3S and K3 + new synth but also looks like you really got to pay
>>> 'em for finally doing it, at nearly 13 grand for the 7851!
>> Don't be so quick to declare either of these products winners -- Rob's RX 
>> measurements are only a small part of what defines the quality of a radio. 
>> ICOM (and Yaesu) have a long history of producing radios with rather wide CW 
>> signals, including all the current products that ARRL has measured.
> Hi Jim,
>
> Also, in the "you get what you pay for" category, here are the K3S features 
> (some optional*) that differ significantly from, or are not available on, the 
> IC-7300:
>
> Receive
>
>    - *Sub receiver (identical in performance to main), diversity and 
>independent-band operation
>    - Dedicated AF and RF gain controls for both receivers
>    - APF (CW audio peaking filter)
>    - 8-band RX EQ
>    - Full stereo audio with audio effects (AFX) and L/R balance control 
>    - User-settable AF limiter for use when AGC is off
>    - 7 AGC customization controls
>
> Transmit
>
>    - PIN-diode T/R switching (audible relay on '7300)
>    - Extremely fast T/R turnaround (as low as 5 ms in QRQ mode; also applies 
>to KPA500)
>    - Dedicated controls for CW code speed/mic gain, compression/power level
>    - 8-band TX EQ
>
> General
>
>    - *Wide-range ATU (> 10:1 at 100 W; > 20:1 at low power) and two antenna 
>jacks
>    - *Internal all-mode 2-meter transverter option
>    - Direct transverter band displays (9); integrated with Elecraft XV-series
>    - Built-in PSK and RTTY decode (to display) and encode (via keyer paddle);
>      7300 has only RTTY, I believe
>    - Dedicated VFO B and RIT/XIT offset controls (VFO B is 400-count optical 
>encoder
>      with weighted knob)
>    - 100 regular memories, plus 4 quick memories per band
>    - 10 user-programmable function switches (for menu hot-keys, macros, TX 
>messages)
>    - Direct rotary control functions: K3 11; 7300 6
>    - Direct switch functions: K3, 74 (addional 22 on P3*); 7300, 27 
>        (IC-7300 also has est. 10 full-time touch controls in 

[Elecraft] KRC2 and KX3

[Robert Vargas-KP4Y via Elecraft]

Hello,

I'm trying to interface a KX3/KXPA with a kRC2 band decorder. Basically, I 
built a cable to connect the AuxBus pin on the KRC2 XCVR port t the GPIO input 
on the KX3-KXPA adapter cable, which is driven by KX3 ACC2 port. This doesn't 
seem to be working and I'm not sure the right setting is enabled for the ACC2 
port to allow for AuxBus communications. Has anyone tried this? Any help is 
appreciated

73,
Robert-KP4Y/W4

Sent from my iPhone


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Re: [Elecraft] K3IOB

[Robert Vargas-KP4Y via Elecraft]

I agree w/ Peter on this. I also find the price for upgrade outrageous. But, 
Mr. Schmidt's comment was out of line.

73,
Robert-KP4Y/W4

Sent from my iPhone



Sent from my iPhone


Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 19, 2015, at 8:38 AM, Wes (N7WS)  wrote:
> 
> Eric is the moderator of this list.
> 
>> On 12/19/2015 4:27 AM, Peter Pauly wrote:
>> Let's remain civil on this mailing list please.
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] [KX3] Noise blanker comments

[Robert Vargas-KP4Y via Elecraft]

 Hi Wayne,
Thanks for the nice info on the KX3 NB operation. How does the much lower 
opposite sideband rejection limits the effectiveness of the KX3 in a 
competitive environment? I have always imagined that everything is good as long 
as a strong signal doesn't get closer than 1 khz. Am I understanding this 
right? What would be the IMDDR3 of something like the K3 or K3S at 1 khz 
spacing? I have never had any issues with the KX3 during contest with IMD, but 
then I have small antennas; therefore, signals are not very strong.
Thanks,Robert-KP4Y/W4

On Friday, December 11, 2015 10:49 AM, Wayne Burdick  
wrote:
 

 David,

The KX3's noise blanker is implemented entirely within its DSP. Ahead of the 
DSP are the mixer and its duplexer, which have a finite bandwidth, and possibly 
the roofing filters, which have much narrower bandwidths. Because of this, 
there's no way for the DSP to gain access to wideband data for blanking 
purposes. 

While this does reduced effectiveness on some types of noise, the blanker still 
works well on most. I use it every day at my QTH on noise ranging from 
telephone-pole ESD to appliances and computer peripherals. And because the 
blanker is strictly operating within a narrow bandwidth, it cannot easily be 
"pumped" by signals well outside the IF passband.

The KX3's narrowband filtering also gives it a big advantage in blocking 
dynamic range compared to other SDRs that have nearly unlimited input 
bandwidth. For example, Sherwood measured the KX3's BDR at 138 dB, compared to 
something in the low to mid 120's for "pure" SDRs. The KX3 is also fifth on 
Sherwood's list for 2-kHz IMDDR3, again because of the narrow roofing filter.

Since the DSP controls blanking, it may be possible to implement additional 
noise blanking algorithms in the future. That is definitely on our list. If you 
send us a detailed description of the types of noise you encounter, we could 
try to duplicate them in the lab during this effort.

73,
Wayne
N6KR


On Dec 11, 2015, at 3:59 AM, David Anderson  wrote:

> Still interested in any comments about how the KX3 noise blanker is 
> implemented, and if it could be improved to make it as effective as the wide 
> band RF blanker in HDSDR.
> 
> I now have the SDRPlay tracking the KX3 VFO so that in the event of static 
> rain QRN I can switch to the SDRPlay for good copy when the KX3 is useless.
> 
> 73 from David GM4JJJ
> 
>> On 9 Dec 2015, at 20:30,   wrote:
>> 
>> I use my KX3 on 144 MHz (with external transverter). 
>> 
>> Comments regarding the KX3 Noise blanker:
>> 
>> It is effective for some kinds of power line noise and ignition noise, I 
>> normally leave it on at a setting of 6.
>> 
>> It is not effective at all with heavy rain or snow static. 
>> 
>> By way of comparison I have an SDRPlay dongle connected to the same 
>> transverter and using the HDSDR software can enable the RF noise blanker in 
>> that software and it can reduce an S9+20 rain static noise that masks all 
>> signals to almost zero and allows me to decode a distant weak CW beacon that 
>> is just above the noise floor. On the KX3, just S9+ noise no matter what 
>> setting used on the NB.
>> 
>> I wonder if the DSP noise blanking could be improved in the KX3 to blank 
>> such heavy static? Does the KX3 noise blanker work in the demodulated audio 
>> or the RF domain?
>> 
>> Many thanks.
>> 
>> -- David GM4JJJ
>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 DSP processor speed

[Robert Vargas-KP4Y via Elecraft]

Wow, so much for a non-kool aid question...You comments give up my friend!
I have a K3, KX3 and TS-590. It's well documented that the nr in the K3 is poor 
and leave a lot to be desired. Also, in an effort to fix it by making it more 
adjustable, Elecraft overcomplicated its implementation. I love Elecraft 
products, but also love the simplicity and effectiveness of nr implementation 
in the TS-590 (in my opinion even better than the one in KX3). Regarding 
warranty and service, I totally agree Elecraft is hand down #1 in this area. 
However, Kenwood just fixed the ALC issue in my TS-590 free of charge after 4 
years. The question is, can I send my 3 yrs old (early production) KX3 to 
Elecraft to get all the latest corrections/improvements (e.g. tuning noise) 
free of charge. After all, I paid about the same amount of money that someone 
is paying today for a better product. ;) I'm a big fan of Elecraft, but resist 
drinking the Kool aid in order to encourage competition.
Robert-KP4Y    


 On Tuesday, November 10, 2015 12:00 PM, "ae...@carolinaheli.com" 
 wrote:
   

 I'll make a few comments with information you likely already know and drop
the thread.
1. audio hiss is common with the largest contributor being particles
traversing the substrate layers of semi-conductors (you get it in tubes as
well, just not as much). The design keys being S/N ratio, dynamic range, and
gain. Any solution to remove hiss without consideration to S/N ratio and
gain results in loss of signal level. Hard to complain about weak signal
work if the system is degraded by mods/adjustments.
2. By default the K3S receive audio isn't optimal for everyone's ears and
dynamic range. That's likely why there's an audio equalizer for both receive
and transmit audio. If you've not adjusted that to optimize the audio to
your tastes then you're missing out.

I have different hearing issues in each ear. My wish is to be able to adjust
left /right audio independently with both a single receiver and with the sub
installed. I currently run with AFX on full delay. I usually hear signals on
my right ear not my left unless I adjust the equalizer. My right ear being
more sensitive than my left.

Show me an audio circuit with no hiss and I'll show you missing signal
level. For most audio applications this doesn't matter because there's ample
signal. When working weak signal it's all about balance and working the
edges. If you operate with all knobs cranked to the right I'd humbly and
respectfully suggest that you review your operating procedures regardless of
the radio you use. 

Kenwood makes a good radio, however, I've NEVER had good luck with service
from them or Yaesu. Based on my experiences in forums, reflector, and
talking with other hams; Elecraft is rabidly good about support. 

Jerry Moore
CDXA, INDEXA, SKCC, Fists
AE4PB, K3S - S.N. 010324
http://www.qrz.com/db/AE4PB
An Amateur is - Considerate, Loyal, Progressive, Friendly, Balanced, and
Patriotic.

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of jim
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2015 11:23 AM
To: ae...@carolinaheli.com; 'Fred Townsend'; 'Robert Sands';
elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 DSP processor speed

Jer,

Perceived audio is just that.  Perception.  And to the individual, it is
*everything*.

Op skill does come into play, no doubt.

Types of noise come into play, no doubt.

The fact there are only two settings on the Kenwood does limit it's ability
to "work" under different noise condx.

The K3 is an excellent radio.  I bought one after using a friends at
Sweepstakes CW two years ago.  The only time I looked back was when I had to

hook up the Kenwood TS-480 and my perception is the NR was superior.

BTW, I sent the K3 back because of hiss in the audio with the audio gain
fully CCW.  Elecraft bent over backwards to find the issue, and advised they
compared to current production rigs, using an audio spectrum analyzer.  I
also sent the headphones to them in the event the complex impedance of them
would induce this hiss.  Yes, Elecraft service is second to none.

The radio still has hiss, so I put a resistive pad inline and the hiss is
gone and ride the audio at 12 noon.

Jim
W6AIM

P.S.  I do not subscribe to $75.00 per foot speaker cable  ;>)



.

-Original Message-
From: Jerry Moore [mailto:je...@carolinaheli.com] On Behalf Of
ae...@carolinaheli.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2015 5:20 AM
To: 'jim'; 'Fred Townsend'; 'Robert Sands'; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3 DSP processor speed

Jim,
  Here's a non-KookAid question for you.

Just like in school..
Show your work. 

You say that radio  has better  than the K3/K3S with latest hardware/firmware.
Please provide the data upon which you base this. 
What you hear /think you hear is not valid data because operator skill comes
into play. 
I'm no expert but have played with the K3S long enough to know the power of

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Beta 5r10 and LINK

[Robert Vargas-KP4Y via Elecraft]

While reading this email thread, I just realized that many people don't know 
how to operate their K3s! Eliminating the LINK function should not cripple the 
diversity function, let alone eliminate it. I'm yet to read an example that 
would convince me about the usefulness of the function. In my opinion, the LINK 
function is a feature that I still don't understand why someone at Aptos 
bothered to program in the K3. As Don pointed out, the only use of this feature 
would be if a DX station was moving its TX frequency while working SPLIT. In 
more than 20 years as a ham chasing DX, I have never ever seen a DX station do 
that (it's kind of silly to do that because it would put in disadvantage the 
majority the DX'ers using other transceivers). 
Sorry for my bluntness
73,Robert-KP4Y 

 On Monday, February 16, 2015 5:22 AM, Guy Olinger K2AV 
k2av@gmail.com wrote:
   

 Link uses both VFO's, with VFO A controlling main RX and VFO B
controlling sub RX. Diversity uses only VFO A on *both* main RX and
sub RX.

Link memorizes the difference between VFO A and VFO B and maintains
VFO B at that difference while VFO A is being tuned. If you do AB
before link, it will still be two synthesizers that are not locked,
just have the same current input parameters. In my case when I do this
I rarely hear the band noise spreading out into the band noise sound
stage needed for digging out weak discreet CW signals.

Diversity is a phase lock between the two RX using the same set of
frequency generating sources for both RX. This always produces the
band noise sound stage.

Note that the sound stage is not something generated in the K3. That
is done in our minds by the same mechanism that allows us to pick out
a single voice in a crowded noisy cafeteria. The band noise is spread
out around the audio horizon or sound stage in my mind's ear. A
discrete signal is in one place on the sound stage. My mind easily
picks the discrete sound out of the spread-around noise.

This is very much the same thing as listening to a stereo recording of
an orchestra that begins with audience buzz, which is all over the
audio horizon in my mind's ear.  When the music begins I hear the
violins to the left, though spread out a bit. I hear the tuba at a
specific spot on the right.

Once a K3 diversity RX operator has learned to use sound stage
diversity, it is easily an S unit advantage on RX for a station at or
in the noise that you can't see on the S meter.

For me diversity is always on 160 through 40. Anything that craps
diversity, for me throws away an S unit.

If you are not getting the sound stage trying to use diversity, you
really are not getting the benefit, and have some fun ahead of you
when you do.

73, Guy K2AV

On Sun, Feb 15, 2015 at 9:15 PM, Tom Blahovici tom...@videotron.ca wrote:
 Hi Joe,
 I guess there is some confusion then as to the function of Link.
 Myself,  I thought it was solely there for diversity mode.
 So,  how else would one use the Link function? What is its purpose?
 Thanks
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Re: [Elecraft] Further K3 development

[Robert Vargas KP4Y via Elecraft]

My backup radio is a TS-590S, and I wish Kenwood had taken a similar approach 
as Elecraft to upgrade it into the new TS-590SG. It's really admirable that 
Elecraft decided not to take advantage of the advancements in technology to 
generate additional revenue. These guys are really hams and engineers above all 

Robert-KP4Y/W4 

 On Friday, February 13, 2015 1:41 PM, Gary Smith g...@ka1j.com wrote:
   

 My opinion which may or may not be worth 2 cents:

The KX3 seems to satisfy many who would otherwise be buying a K3, 
maybe a K2 or K1. To me the KX3 is a fabulous  affordable QRP rig. 
However nice that tiny wonder is, I prefer the larger K3 with its 
greater choices and options which I find most helpful to my DXing  
contesting interests. 

Considering what I do with my K3, I can't imagine what they could do 
to make a much better radio; I'm not sure what a future K4 would 
have that I would find more appealing other than maybe another couple 
inches of width and maybe 1 of height for my 10 thumbs but till 
then, with the K3 being so modular and upgrades possible by 
replacing/exchanging boards, I'm expecting the K3 will be the 
flagship for years to come.

Every company has to address profit margins to be viable and I'd much 
rather give Elecraft more $ for component upgrades than have to sell 
my K3 to then purchase a surely more expensive, fully loaded K4 or 
whatever it would be called. 

I love the option of keeping the K3 at the top of the game  Elecraft 
making a satisfactory profit by making that possible. Elecraft; you 
keep improving as you're doing, I'll keep upgrading.

 thanks!

73, Gary KA1J 



 Still some room to improve the K3,  so thanks Elecraft for working to 
 keep it up to date.
 73 Merv K9FD/KH6


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