Re: [Elecraft] Clipping first element of CW - K3/KPA-1500

[N4ZR]

And none is

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at , now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

On 4/24/2019 10:12 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Scott,

What do you mean by "if I get tired of all the racket"?
The Elecraft gear is all electronic switching for T/R, so no relay 
clacking racket.  That is true for ALL Elecraft gear, even the oldest K2.


That may not be true for your old tube amplifiers, but the original 
question was about a K3 and a KPA1500, so no relay clacking could be 
present.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 4/24/2019 9:52 AM, K9MA wrote:
I know this will seem incredible to the software purists, but I have 
an actual mechanical "switch" in series with the PTT line. The K3 is 
always in QSK mode, but if I get tired of all the racket, I can just 
turn on the PTT. That seems to work flawlessly with the KPA1500, as 
well as my old tube amplifiers. (There's another switch in the keying 
line, just in case the computer goes nuts. Of course, that could 
NEVER happen.)


73,
Scott K9MA


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Re: [Elecraft] Clipping first element of CW - K3/KPA-1500

[Jim Brown]

Hi Pete,

This is what I've always used, with no issues.

73, Jim K9YC

On 4/24/2019 6:14 AM, N4ZR wrote:
Experimentally, it appears that must have *both* QSK on - whether Full 
or Semi - and VOX on.  Once I do this, I see my first dots on the 
KPA-1500 bar-graph every time.



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Re: [Elecraft] Clipping first element of CW - K3/KPA-1500

[K9MA]

Don,

I use an external vacuum relay for compatibility with my old tube 
amplifiers. The whole system long predates the KPA1500, and I still 
sometimes use the tube amplifier. The system also includes small relays 
for switching receiving antennas and protecting the receiver. However, 
even without relays, in QSK there's sound from the receiver between 
characters, of course, which I sometimes prefer not to listen to. This 
works fine with the K3, as in QSK/VOX mode closing the PTT circuit 
simply keeps it in transmit mode. My old FT-1000D doesn't work that way, 
and it's a pain: if you close the PTT circuit in QSK mode, you get a 
carrier. I'm glad the K3 doesn't work that way.


73,
Scott K9MA




On 4/24/2019 09:12, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Scott,

What do you mean by "if I get tired of all the racket"?
The Elecraft gear is all electronic switching for T/R, so no relay 
clacking racket.  That is true for ALL Elecraft gear, even the oldest K2.


That may not be true for your old tube amplifiers, but the original 
question was about a K3 and a KPA1500, so no relay clacking could be 
present.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 4/24/2019 9:52 AM, K9MA wrote:
I know this will seem incredible to the software purists, but I have 
an actual mechanical "switch" in series with the PTT line. The K3 is 
always in QSK mode, but if I get tired of all the racket, I can just 
turn on the PTT. That seems to work flawlessly with the KPA1500, as 
well as my old tube amplifiers. (There's another switch in the keying 
line, just in case the computer goes nuts. Of course, that could 
NEVER happen.)


73,
Scott K9MA



--
Scott  K9MA

k...@sdellington.us

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Re: [Elecraft] Clipping first element of CW - K3/KPA-1500

[Roger Dixon]

Hi Pete 
If you don't want to use VOX and/or QSK   I take both the key line 
and the PTT line from the WinKey to the K3.
In N1MM - Config - Config Ports etc - WinKey - Set lead time to 1.  Works 
perfectly !!
73
Roger - G4BVY

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of N4ZR
Sent: 24 April 2019 14:15
To: Elecraft List 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Clipping first element of CW - K3/KPA-1500

This appears to be, at least in part, a simple matter of RTFM.  Also, my manual 
is 9 years old, and there's obviously been a lot of stuff added since then. 
Experimentally, it appears that must have *both* QSK on - whether Full or Semi 
- and VOX on.  Once I do this, I see my first dots on the KPA-1500 bar-graph 
every time.  I do not want to use the built-in keyer in the K3, because most of 
my operating is CW contesting, and I want to use the Winkeyer to send stored 
messages from N1MM +.  The manual makes it clear (if only I'd read it) that 
both QSK and VOX must be enabled for CW. In PTT mode, it appears that my keyer 
is sending the PTT signal simultaneously with the first RF - not good.

Thanks to everyone who helped put me on the right track.

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at <http://reversebeacon.net>, now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

On 4/24/2019 8:49 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
> See CW QRO and TX DELAY in the menu.  Also the benefits and likely 
> issues are described in the manual, page 58 and 66 as MENU items.
> As to using other means to key the radio and amp and send CW, those 
> may have their own settings as required.
>
> While I do not consider myself a high speed CW op, I do work QSK.   I 
> do not find any truncation of the first CW element.I use the 
> internal keyer and either a Vibroplex Iambic paddle or a Vibroplex 
> single level paddle.  I have VOX set to ON, CW QRO  is OFF and TX DLY 
> to NOR and 008.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> 73
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
>
>
> On 4/24/2019 7:34 AM, Andy Durbin wrote:
>> "It occurs if the rising edge of the keying waveform happens at the 
>> same time as the PTT line.  The ONLY way around this is to delay the 
>> keying waveform slightly so it occurs after the PTT."
>>
>> That would seem to imply that you are not using CW VOX keying. If 
>> that is the case then wouldn't using CW VOX eliminate the issue?
>>
>> 73,
>> Andy k3wyc
>>
>> __
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>
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Re: [Elecraft] Clipping first element of CW - K3/KPA-1500

[Don Wilhelm]

Scott,

What do you mean by "if I get tired of all the racket"?
The Elecraft gear is all electronic switching for T/R, so no relay 
clacking racket.  That is true for ALL Elecraft gear, even the oldest K2.


That may not be true for your old tube amplifiers, but the original 
question was about a K3 and a KPA1500, so no relay clacking could be 
present.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 4/24/2019 9:52 AM, K9MA wrote:
I know this will seem incredible to the software purists, but I have an 
actual mechanical "switch" in series with the PTT line. The K3 is always 
in QSK mode, but if I get tired of all the racket, I can just turn on 
the PTT. That seems to work flawlessly with the KPA1500, as well as my 
old tube amplifiers. (There's another switch in the keying line, just in 
case the computer goes nuts. Of course, that could NEVER happen.)


73,
Scott K9MA


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Re: [Elecraft] Clipping first element of CW - K3/KPA-1500

[K9MA]

I know this will seem incredible to the software purists, but I have an 
actual mechanical "switch" in series with the PTT line. The K3 is always 
in QSK mode, but if I get tired of all the racket, I can just turn on 
the PTT. That seems to work flawlessly with the KPA1500, as well as my 
old tube amplifiers. (There's another switch in the keying line, just in 
case the computer goes nuts. Of course, that could NEVER happen.)


73,
Scott K9MA

On 4/24/2019 08:14, N4ZR wrote:
This appears to be, at least in part, a simple matter of RTFM.  Also, 
my manual is 9 years old, and there's obviously been a lot of stuff 
added since then. Experimentally, it appears that must have *both* QSK 
on - whether Full or Semi - and VOX on.  Once I do this, I see my 
first dots on the KPA-1500 bar-graph every time.  I do not want to use 
the built-in keyer in the K3, because most of my operating is CW 
contesting, and I want to use the Winkeyer to send stored messages 
from N1MM +.  The manual makes it clear (if only I'd read it) that 
both QSK and VOX must be enabled for CW. In PTT mode, it appears that 
my keyer is sending the PTT signal simultaneously with the first RF - 
not good.


Thanks to everyone who helped put me on the right track.

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at , now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

On 4/24/2019 8:49 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
See CW QRO and TX DELAY in the menu.  Also the benefits and likely 
issues are described in the manual, page 58 and 66 as MENU items.    
As to using other means to key the radio and amp and send CW, those 
may have their own settings as required.


While I do not consider myself a high speed CW op, I do work QSK.   I 
do not find any truncation of the first CW element. I use the 
internal keyer and either a Vibroplex Iambic paddle or a Vibroplex 
single level paddle.  I have VOX set to ON, CW QRO is OFF and TX DLY 
to NOR and 008.


Hope this helps.

73

Bob, K4TAX




On 4/24/2019 7:34 AM, Andy Durbin wrote:
"It occurs if the rising edge of the keying waveform happens at the 
same time as the PTT line.  The ONLY way around this is to delay the 
keying waveform slightly so it occurs after the PTT."


That would seem to imply that you are not using CW VOX keying. If 
that is the case then wouldn't using CW VOX eliminate the issue?


73,
Andy k3wyc



--
Scott  K9MA

k...@sdellington.us

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Re: [Elecraft] Clipping first element of CW - K3/KPA-1500

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

Glad you found it and have things up and running correctly.   

Hope I was able to be of assistance. 

73
Bob, K4TAX


Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 24, 2019, at 8:14 AM, N4ZR  wrote:
> 
> This appears to be, at least in part, a simple matter of RTFM.  Also, my 
> manual is 9 years old, and there's obviously been a lot of stuff added since 
> then. Experimentally, it appears that must have *both* QSK on - whether Full 
> or Semi - and VOX on.  Once I do this, I see my first dots on the KPA-1500 
> bar-graph every time.  I do not want to use the built-in keyer in the K3, 
> because most of my operating is CW contesting, and I want to use the Winkeyer 
> to send stored messages from N1MM +.  The manual makes it clear (if only I'd 
> read it) that both QSK and VOX must be enabled for CW. In PTT mode, it 
> appears that my keyer is sending the PTT signal simultaneously with the first 
> RF - not good.
> 
> Thanks to everyone who helped put me on the right track.
> 
> 73, Pete N4ZR
> Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
> at , now
> spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
> For spots, please use your favorite
> "retail" DX cluster.
> 
>> On 4/24/2019 8:49 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
>> See CW QRO and TX DELAY in the menu.  Also the benefits and likely issues 
>> are described in the manual, page 58 and 66 as MENU items.As to using 
>> other means to key the radio and amp and send CW, those may have their own 
>> settings as required.
>> 
>> While I do not consider myself a high speed CW op, I do work QSK.   I do not 
>> find any truncation of the first CW element.I use the internal keyer and 
>> either a Vibroplex Iambic paddle or a Vibroplex single level paddle.  I have 
>> VOX set to ON, CW QRO  is OFF and TX DLY to NOR and 008.
>> 
>> Hope this helps.
>> 
>> 73
>> 
>> Bob, K4TAX
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 4/24/2019 7:34 AM, Andy Durbin wrote:
>>> "It occurs if the rising edge of the keying waveform happens at the same 
>>> time as the PTT line.  The ONLY way around this is to delay the keying 
>>> waveform slightly so it occurs after the PTT."
>>> 
>>> That would seem to imply that you are not using CW VOX keying. If that is 
>>> the case then wouldn't using CW VOX eliminate the issue?
>>> 
>>> 73,
>>> Andy k3wyc
>>> 
>>> __
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>>> 
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> 
>> 
>> __
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Re: [Elecraft] Clipping first element of CW - K3/KPA-1500

[N4ZR]

This appears to be, at least in part, a simple matter of RTFM.  Also, my 
manual is 9 years old, and there's obviously been a lot of stuff added 
since then. Experimentally, it appears that must have *both* QSK on - 
whether Full or Semi - and VOX on.  Once I do this, I see my first dots 
on the KPA-1500 bar-graph every time.  I do not want to use the built-in 
keyer in the K3, because most of my operating is CW contesting, and I 
want to use the Winkeyer to send stored messages from N1MM +.  The 
manual makes it clear (if only I'd read it) that both QSK and VOX must 
be enabled for CW. In PTT mode, it appears that my keyer is sending the 
PTT signal simultaneously with the first RF - not good.


Thanks to everyone who helped put me on the right track.

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at , now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

On 4/24/2019 8:49 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
See CW QRO and TX DELAY in the menu.  Also the benefits and likely 
issues are described in the manual, page 58 and 66 as MENU items.    
As to using other means to key the radio and amp and send CW, those 
may have their own settings as required.


While I do not consider myself a high speed CW op, I do work QSK.   I 
do not find any truncation of the first CW element.    I use the 
internal keyer and either a Vibroplex Iambic paddle or a Vibroplex 
single level paddle.  I have VOX set to ON, CW QRO  is OFF and TX DLY 
to NOR and 008.


Hope this helps.

73

Bob, K4TAX




On 4/24/2019 7:34 AM, Andy Durbin wrote:
"It occurs if the rising edge of the keying waveform happens at the 
same time as the PTT line.  The ONLY way around this is to delay the 
keying waveform slightly so it occurs after the PTT."


That would seem to imply that you are not using CW VOX keying. If 
that is the case then wouldn't using CW VOX eliminate the issue?


73,
Andy k3wyc

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Re: [Elecraft] Clipping first element of CW - K3/KPA-1500

[Roy Koeppe]

Pete...odd is right. Does it happen when using built-in keyer?

73,  Roy K6XK


-Running into what I'm sure is a simple matter of menu settings, but... 
My K3 is set for PTT with a "normal" TX delay of 008 (I presume 8 ms.), 
driving a KPA-1500.  I am getting persistent reports of clipping one 
dash worth at the beginning of each transmission, so my casll becomes 
"E4ZR", for example.  I've been through both manuals, and aside from 
setting a higher TX Delay, I don't know what I can do to clean this up.


so what am I missing?

73, Pete N4ZR


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Re: [Elecraft] Clipping first element of CW - K3/KPA-1500

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

See CW QRO and TX DELAY in the menu.  Also the benefits and likely 
issues are described in the manual, page 58 and 66 as MENU items.    As 
to using other means to key the radio and amp and send CW, those may 
have their own settings as required.


While I do not consider myself a high speed CW op, I do work QSK.   I do 
not find any truncation of the first CW element.    I use the internal 
keyer and either a Vibroplex Iambic paddle or a Vibroplex single level 
paddle.  I have VOX set to ON, CW QRO  is OFF and TX DLY to NOR and 008.


Hope this helps.

73

Bob, K4TAX




On 4/24/2019 7:34 AM, Andy Durbin wrote:

"It occurs if the rising edge of the keying waveform happens at the same time as the 
PTT line.  The ONLY way around this is to delay the keying waveform slightly so it occurs 
after the PTT."

That would seem to imply that you are not using CW VOX keying.  If that is the 
case then wouldn't using CW VOX eliminate the issue?

73,
Andy k3wyc

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Re: [Elecraft] Clipping first element of CW - K3/KPA-1500

[Andy Durbin]

"It occurs if the rising edge of the keying waveform happens at the same time 
as the PTT line.  The ONLY way around this is to delay the keying waveform 
slightly so it occurs after the PTT."

That would seem to imply that you are not using CW VOX keying.  If that is the 
case then wouldn't using CW VOX eliminate the issue?

73,
Andy k3wyc

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Re: [Elecraft] Clipping first element of CW - K3/KPA-1500

[john]

Try sending your callsign as TN4ZR :)  I believe TX Delay 8 is  
technically less than 8ms however I am guessing that is not your  
problem since the KPA1500 is very fast. It would help if you gave a  
description of how you are sending CW.


John KK9A



N4ZR wrote:

Running into what I'm sure is a simple matter of menu settings, but...
My K3 is set for PTT with a "normal" TX delay of 008 (I presume 8 ms.),
driving a KPA-1500.  I am getting persistent reports of clipping one
dash worth at the beginning of each transmission, so my casll becomes
"E4ZR", for example.  I've been through both manuals, and aside from
setting a higher TX Delay, I don't know what I can do to clean this up.

so what am I missing?

--

73, Pete N4ZR

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[Elecraft] Clipping first element of CW - K3/KPA-1500

[John Harper]

You may have to move to Palestine.

John AE5X
https://ae5x.blogspot.com
___

>so my call becomes "E4ZR"
>I don't know what I can do to clean this up.
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[Elecraft] Clipping first element of CW - K3/KPA-1500

[Roger Dixon]

Hi Pete
I had this problem as well - it is a "feature".
It occurs if the rising edge of the keying waveform happens at the same time as 
the PTT line.  The ONLY way around this is to delay the keying waveform 
slightly so it occurs after the PTT.  If you are using a WinKey, then set the 
"lead-in" delay.  There is also a feature in N1MM to achieve the same result.
73
Roger - G4BVY

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of N4ZR
Sent: 23 April 2019 22:19
To: Elecraft List 
Subject: [Elecraft] Clipping first element of CW - K3/KPA-1500

Running into what I'm sure is a simple matter of menu settings, but... 
My K3 is set for PTT with a "normal" TX delay of 008 (I presume 8 ms.), driving 
a KPA-1500.  I am getting persistent reports of clipping one dash worth at the 
beginning of each transmission, so my casll becomes "E4ZR", for example.  I've 
been through both manuals, and aside from setting a higher TX Delay, I don't 
know what I can do to clean this up.

so what am I missing?

-- 

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at <http://reversebeacon.net>, now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

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[Elecraft] Clipping first element of CW - K3/KPA-1500

[Andy Durbin]

I don't know what you are missing but, when I was investigating the QSK keying 
characteristics of the TS-590S, I found a digital storage scope to be very 
useful.   Traces showing key input to rig, amplifier keying output, RF 
envelope, and RX audio were very informative.

At 30 wpm the first element of your call should be 120 ms long so there would 
have to be a really bad delay for it to disappear completely.   I doubt many 
could detect the loss of the first 8 ms.

A 'scope will tell you where the delay is happening if no one comes up with an 
answer for you.

73,
Andy, k3wyc
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[Elecraft] Clipping first element of CW - K3/KPA-1500

[N4ZR]

Running into what I'm sure is a simple matter of menu settings, but... 
My K3 is set for PTT with a "normal" TX delay of 008 (I presume 8 ms.), 
driving a KPA-1500.  I am getting persistent reports of clipping one 
dash worth at the beginning of each transmission, so my casll becomes 
"E4ZR", for example.  I've been through both manuals, and aside from 
setting a higher TX Delay, I don't know what I can do to clean this up.


so what am I missing?

--

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at , now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

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