Re: [Elecraft] Antenna tuners
More than just them. Steve, K6OIK, who has presented at a number of past Pacificons speaks about the Myths of Conjugate Matching in a Pacificon presentation from 2011 at https://www.fars.k6ya.org/docs/Conjugate-Match-Myths.pdf It begins on page 20. This is Dr. Stearns home turf, it can be a little technically dense in places. 73, Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW Sparks NV DM09dn Washoe County On 7/18/2020 3:46 PM, hawley, charles j jr wrote: Wasn't there a debate between Maxwell and Walter Bruene (designed the Collins 30L1) on the conjugate match...I think Bruene disagreed with the popular notion of a conjugate match. Jack BMW Motorcycles Chuck KE9UW c-haw...@illinois.edu __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Antenna tuners
Wasn't there a debate between Maxwell and Walter Bruene (designed the Collins 30L1) on the conjugate match...I think Bruene disagreed with the popular notion of a conjugate match. Jack BMW Motorcycles Chuck KE9UW c-haw...@illinois.edu Sent from my iPad > On Jul 18, 2020, at 3:01 PM, Gary Peterson wrote: > > You are in good company with Walter Maxwell, W2DU, now silent key. Maxwell > was an engineer at RCA. He designed the antennas on several earth orbiting > satellites and the antenna on the Lunar Rover. He explained this quite > succinctly in his book Reflections (all three editions), by use of the > conjugate matching theorem. As I recall, that chapter in his book (peer > reviewed by the RCA engineering department) was called My Antenna Tuner Tunes > My Antenna. > > Gary, K0CX > > But if the "tuner" is an LC network, like an adjustable L network, T network, > Pi network, or a linked-coupled network, then I strongly disagree. > A tuner is a 2-port network. A transmission line is also a 2-port network. > Both networks obey reciprocity, meaning that what you do to one port of the > network will have a direct influence on the opposite end. > That being said, if an antenna exhibits a complex impedance at our frequency > of interest, and that behavior can be corrected (brought to resonance) by the > application of a particular value of reactance at the antenna's feedpoint, > then that application of reactance can, for reasons of convenience, be made > at the "shack end" of the transmission line. As such, the "tuner" in the > shack is really "tuning" the antenna! > John, KD2BD > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to c-haw...@illinois.edu __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Antenna tuners
I very vaguely remember there was a different optimum length for the others, thanks! 73, Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW Sparks NV DM09dn Washoe County On 7/18/2020 12:25 PM, W2xj wrote: That only applies to class A stations with protected skywave. Otherwise, something near 225 degrees is best. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 18, 2020, at 11:33, Fred Jensen wrote: And the Texas Bug Catcher, Webster BandSpanner, SteppIR's, et al. All represent changes to the antenna itself, which would also include changing the height [e.g. cranking the tower up and down] and possibly cutting down nearby trees or metal buildings [:=). Any change to the antenna itself or its near-field environment will affect the feed point complex impedance. This would include adding traps, inductors, and capacitors to the antenna. When you're done flutzing with the antenna itself, you are stuck with whatever complex impedance you find at the feed point. AM broadcast verticals are generally engineered for coverage near the edges of the market area, meeting non-interference FS requirements, and minimizing self-cancellation between the ground and sky wave. Something in the vicinity of 195 degrees is generally optimal. They are not usually resonant and there will be fixed matching network(s) at the base(s) ... AM broadcast stations aren't known to QSY much. I'm not familiar with the TurboTuner however many mechanical antenna adjusters operated by driving the phase angle between voltage and current to zero, that is effectively bringing the antenna into resonance so the feedline sees a resistive load. It's up to you to design the antenna so that resistive load matches the characteristic impedance of the feedline OR put a matching network between the feedline and the antenna feedpoint OR tolerate the SWR on the line and put the matching network in the shack. Pick one. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] Antenna tuners
You are in good company with Walter Maxwell, W2DU, now silent key. Maxwell was an engineer at RCA. He designed the antennas on several earth orbiting satellites and the antenna on the Lunar Rover. He explained this quite succinctly in his book Reflections (all three editions), by use of the conjugate matching theorem. As I recall, that chapter in his book (peer reviewed by the RCA engineering department) was called My Antenna Tuner Tunes My Antenna. Gary, K0CX But if the "tuner" is an LC network, like an adjustable L network, T network, Pi network, or a linked-coupled network, then I strongly disagree. A tuner is a 2-port network. A transmission line is also a 2-port network. Both networks obey reciprocity, meaning that what you do to one port of the network will have a direct influence on the opposite end. That being said, if an antenna exhibits a complex impedance at our frequency of interest, and that behavior can be corrected (brought to resonance) by the application of a particular value of reactance at the antenna's feedpoint, then that application of reactance can, for reasons of convenience, be made at the "shack end" of the transmission line. As such, the "tuner" in the shack is really "tuning" the antenna! John, KD2BD __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Antenna tuners
That only applies to class A stations with protected skywave. Otherwise, something near 225 degrees is best. Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 18, 2020, at 11:33, Fred Jensen wrote: > > And the Texas Bug Catcher, Webster BandSpanner, SteppIR's, et al. All > represent changes to the antenna itself, which would also include changing > the height [e.g. cranking the tower up and down] and possibly cutting down > nearby trees or metal buildings [:=). Any change to the antenna itself or > its near-field environment will affect the feed point complex impedance. > This would include adding traps, inductors, and capacitors to the antenna. > > When you're done flutzing with the antenna itself, you are stuck with > whatever complex impedance you find at the feed point. AM broadcast > verticals are generally engineered for coverage near the edges of the market > area, meeting non-interference FS requirements, and minimizing > self-cancellation between the ground and sky wave. Something in the vicinity > of 195 degrees is generally optimal. They are not usually resonant and there > will be fixed matching network(s) at the base(s) ... AM broadcast stations > aren't known to QSY much. > > I'm not familiar with the TurboTuner however many mechanical antenna > adjusters operated by driving the phase angle between voltage and current to > zero, that is effectively bringing the antenna into resonance so the feedline > sees a resistive load. It's up to you to design the antenna so that resistive > load matches the characteristic impedance of the feedline OR put a matching > network between the feedline and the antenna feedpoint OR tolerate the SWR on > the line and put the matching network in the shack. Pick one. > > 73, > Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW > Sparks NV DM09dn > Washoe County > >> On 7/17/2020 9:44 PM, Rick NK7I wrote: >> Save one; the screwdriver antenna on my truck is tuned (coil adjusted) by >> the TurboTuner attached to my radio until a match is found. >> >> And an argument could be made that a SteppIR controller performs a similar >> function. >> >> The rest are matching circuits to compensate for the disparity of input to >> output. >> >> 73, >> Rick NK7I >> >> Email spiel Czech corruptions happen >> On Jul 17, 2020, at 7:00 PM, Fred Jensen wrote: >>> >>> No antenna has, at any time, anywhere in any of our lifetimes, been >>> "tuned" by an "antenna tuner." So called antenna tuners are 2-port >>> impedance matching networks ... all of them ... and their __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Antenna tuners
And the Texas Bug Catcher, Webster BandSpanner, SteppIR's, et al. All
represent changes to the antenna itself, which would also include
changing the height [e.g. cranking the tower up and down] and possibly
cutting down nearby trees or metal buildings [:=). Any change to the
antenna itself or its near-field environment will affect the feed point
complex impedance. This would include adding traps, inductors, and
capacitors to the antenna.
When you're done flutzing with the antenna itself, you are stuck with
whatever complex impedance you find at the feed point. AM broadcast
verticals are generally engineered for coverage near the edges of the
market area, meeting non-interference FS requirements, and minimizing
self-cancellation between the ground and sky wave. Something in the
vicinity of 195 degrees is generally optimal. They are not usually
resonant and there will be fixed matching network(s) at the base(s) ...
AM broadcast stations aren't known to QSY much.
I'm not familiar with the TurboTuner however many mechanical antenna
adjusters operated by driving the phase angle between voltage and
current to zero, that is effectively bringing the antenna into resonance
so the feedline sees a resistive load. It's up to you to design the
antenna so that resistive load matches the characteristic impedance of
the feedline OR put a matching network between the feedline and the
antenna feedpoint OR tolerate the SWR on the line and put the matching
network in the shack. Pick one.
73,
Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County
On 7/17/2020 9:44 PM, Rick NK7I wrote:
Save one; the screwdriver antenna on my truck is tuned (coil adjusted) by the
TurboTuner attached to my radio until a match is found.
And an argument could be made that a SteppIR controller performs a similar
function.
The rest are matching circuits to compensate for the disparity of input to
output.
73,
Rick NK7I
Email spiel Czech corruptions happen
On Jul 17, 2020, at 7:00 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
No antenna has, at any time, anywhere in any of our lifetimes, been "tuned" by an "antenna
tuner." So called antenna tuners are 2-port impedance matching networks ... all of them ... and their
job is to match the impedance on one port to another impedance on the second port, period. Nothing gets
"tuned." They come in a variety of flavors ... a pair of push-pull 807's with a resonant tank and
a link feed to the antenna on open wire line is one. Everything that happens on the feed line [regardless of
it's construction] is the sole result of the complex impedance at the antenna feed point and the
characteristic impedance of the feedline. No magic.
73,
Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
"Captain Obvious"
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County
On 7/17/2020 5:14 PM, Ken Roberson via Elecraft wrote:
Kurt,
We are not tuning the antenna , we are matching the antenna to the coax at the
base of the antenna.
73 Ken K5DNL
On Friday, July 17, 2020, 7:10:32 PM CDT, Kurt Pawlikowski
wrote:
Ken: In some respects, a "matching device" at the base of the antenna is a
tuner! {'-) It accomplishes the same function... {'-) k WB9FMC
On 7/17/2020 6:34 PM, Ken Roberson via Elecraft wrote:
Antenna tuners
I never use an antenna tuner , on the MF and LF bands realmen use a scopematch
at the
Output of the Power Amp and a matching device at the base ofthe vertical
antenna – HI Hi.
73 Ken K5DNL
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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna tuners
Save one; the screwdriver antenna on my truck is tuned (coil adjusted) by the
TurboTuner attached to my radio until a match is found.
And an argument could be made that a SteppIR controller performs a similar
function.
The rest are matching circuits to compensate for the disparity of input to
output.
73,
Rick NK7I
Email spiel Czech corruptions happen
> On Jul 17, 2020, at 7:00 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
>
> No antenna has, at any time, anywhere in any of our lifetimes, been "tuned"
> by an "antenna tuner." So called antenna tuners are 2-port impedance
> matching networks ... all of them ... and their job is to match the impedance
> on one port to another impedance on the second port, period. Nothing gets
> "tuned." They come in a variety of flavors ... a pair of push-pull 807's
> with a resonant tank and a link feed to the antenna on open wire line is one.
> Everything that happens on the feed line [regardless of it's construction]
> is the sole result of the complex impedance at the antenna feed point and the
> characteristic impedance of the feedline. No magic.
>
> 73,
> Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
> "Captain Obvious"
> Sparks NV DM09dn
> Washoe County
>
>> On 7/17/2020 5:14 PM, Ken Roberson via Elecraft wrote:
>> Kurt,
>> We are not tuning the antenna , we are matching the antenna to the coax at
>> the base of the antenna.
>> 73 Ken K5DNL
>>
>> On Friday, July 17, 2020, 7:10:32 PM CDT, Kurt Pawlikowski
>> wrote:
>> Ken: In some respects, a "matching device" at the base of the antenna is
>> a tuner! {'-) It accomplishes the same function... {'-) k WB9FMC
>>On 7/17/2020 6:34 PM, Ken Roberson via Elecraft wrote:
>> Antenna tuners
>>
>> I never use an antenna tuner , on the MF and LF bands realmen use a
>> scopematch at the
>>
>> Output of the Power Amp and a matching device at the base ofthe vertical
>> antenna – HI Hi.
>>
>> 73 Ken K5DNL
>>
>
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna tuners
That's not in the least true, but those among us fixated on semantics continue to push that tired old myth. You could, for example, have an antenna with a feedpoint impedance of 50 - j40 ohms, and if you insert 40 ohms worth of inductance in series with the feedline at the feedpoint you will TUNE that antenna to resonance exactly the same as if you put an appropriate amount of reactance in the antenna itself or adjust its length ... all of which do exactly the same thing. The antenna and it's feedline are inseparable as far as the overall network is concerned. One is not independent of the other ... ever. Furthermore, the adjustment (i.e., "tuning") can be done at the shack end of the feedline with EXACTLY the same effect except for the transmission line transformation by the feedline, and of course its associated loss, since whatever is done at the shack end is reflected back to the antenna end. Yours is really a very tedious distinction that has no basis in actual physics or network theory. 73, Dave AB7E On 7/17/2020 6:59 PM, Fred Jensen wrote: No antenna has, at any time, anywhere in any of our lifetimes, been "tuned" by an "antenna tuner." So called antenna tuners are 2-port impedance matching networks ... all of them ... and their job is to match the impedance on one port to another impedance on the second port, period. Nothing gets "tuned." They come in a variety of flavors ... a pair of push-pull 807's with a resonant tank and a link feed to the antenna on open wire line is one. Everything that happens on the feed line [regardless of it's construction] is the sole result of the complex impedance at the antenna feed point and the characteristic impedance of the feedline. No magic. 73, Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW "Captain Obvious" Sparks NV DM09dn Washoe County __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Antenna tuners
On Friday, July 17, 2020, 10:03:24 PM EDT, Fred Jensen wrote: > No antenna has, at any time, anywhere in any of our lifetimes, been > "tuned" by an "antenna tuner." Unless the "tuner" is simply a broadband transformer, I might agree. But if the "tuner" is an LC network, like an adjustable L network, T network, Pi network, or a linked-coupled network, then I strongly disagree. A tuner is a 2-port network. A transmission line is also a 2-port network. Both networks obey reciprocity, meaning that what you do to one port of the network will have a direct influence on the opposite end. That being said, if an antenna exhibits a complex impedance at our frequency of interest, and that behavior can be corrected (brought to resonance) by the application of a particular value of reactance at the antenna's feedpoint, then that application of reactance can, for reasons of convenience, be made at the "shack end" of the transmission line. As such, the "tuner" in the shack is really "tuning" the antenna! There's no "magic" involved here -- just a simple understanding that things that are connected together actually behave like they're connected together. A transmission line doesn't isolate the shack from the antenna: It couples them together with the highest degree of efficiency we can muster/afford. Therefore, what happens at one end of a transmission line DIRECTLY affects the other, and vice versa. And so, properly applying an adjustable LC impedance matching network in the shack CAN (and often does) modify the resonant frequency of an antenna. 73 de John, KD2BD __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Antenna tuners
No antenna has, at any time, anywhere in any of our lifetimes, been
"tuned" by an "antenna tuner." So called antenna tuners are 2-port
impedance matching networks ... all of them ... and their job is to
match the impedance on one port to another impedance on the second port,
period. Nothing gets "tuned." They come in a variety of flavors ... a
pair of push-pull 807's with a resonant tank and a link feed to the
antenna on open wire line is one. Everything that happens on the feed
line [regardless of it's construction] is the sole result of the complex
impedance at the antenna feed point and the characteristic impedance of
the feedline. No magic.
73,
Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
"Captain Obvious"
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County
On 7/17/2020 5:14 PM, Ken Roberson via Elecraft wrote:
Kurt,
We are not tuning the antenna , we are matching the antenna to the coax at the
base of the antenna.
73 Ken K5DNL
On Friday, July 17, 2020, 7:10:32 PM CDT, Kurt Pawlikowski
wrote:
Ken: In some respects, a "matching device" at the base of the antenna is a tuner! {'-) It accomplishes the same function... {'-) k WB9FMC
On 7/17/2020 6:34 PM, Ken Roberson via Elecraft wrote:
Antenna tuners
I never use an antenna tuner , on the MF and LF bands realmen use a scopematch
at the
Output of the Power Amp and a matching device at the base ofthe vertical
antenna – HI Hi.
73 Ken K5DNL
__
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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna tuners
On Friday, July 17, 2020, 7:10:32 PM CDT, Kurt Pawlikowski
wrote:
> Ken: In some respects, a "matching device" at the base of the antenna is a
> tuner! {'-) It accomplishes the same function... {'-) k
> WB9FMC
On Friday, July 17, 2020, 08:21:54 PM EDT, Ken Roberson via Elecraft
wrote:
> Kurt,
> We are not tuning the antenna , we are matching the antenna to the coax at
> the base of the antenna.
> 73 Ken K5DNL
Kurt's correct. A low-loss (non-resistive) matching network connected directly
at the feedpoint of an antenna will modify its resonant frequency.
A matching network connected to the feedpoint of an antenna through 1 inch
(25.4mm) of transmission line will also modify the resonant frequency of the
antenna.
A matching network connected through 1 meter of transmission line will also
modify the resonant frequency of the antenna.
A matching network connected through 10 meters of transmission line will also
modify the resonant frequency of the antenna.
And so on, and so forth... all the way back to the shack! ;-)
Why? Because transmission lines obey reciprocity. As such they cannot (aside
from the effects of losses) separate what's on their source end from what's on
their load end. What you do to one end directly affects the other, and vice
versa.
Show me a transmission line that disobeys this property, and I'll show you a
line that is either opened or shorted.
So, yes, a non-resistive matching network in the shack will bring your antenna
SYSTEM (antenna + transmission line) into resonance at your operating
frequency. In the process, the resonant frequency of the antenna is modified,
as well.
73 de John, KD2BD
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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna tuners
Dave - RRR - 73 Ken K5DNL On Friday, July 17, 2020, 7:24:10 PM CDT, Dave Cole wrote: Tuners... Tuners... We don't need no stinking tuners... Real men use antennas that don't need stinking tuners... Sorry I had too... 73, and thanks, Dave (NK7Z) https://www.nk7z.net ARRL Volunteer Examiner ARRL Technical Specialist ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources On 7/17/20 4:34 PM, Ken Roberson via Elecraft wrote: > > Antenna tuners > > I never use an antenna tuner , on the MF and LF bands realmen use a > scopematch at the > > Output of the Power Amp and a matching device at the base ofthe vertical > antenna – HI Hi. > > 73 Ken K5DNL > > > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to d...@nk7z.net > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to kwrober...@yahoo.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Antenna tuners
Tuners... Tuners... We don't need no stinking tuners... Real men use antennas that don't need stinking tuners... Sorry I had too... 73, and thanks, Dave (NK7Z) https://www.nk7z.net ARRL Volunteer Examiner ARRL Technical Specialist ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources On 7/17/20 4:34 PM, Ken Roberson via Elecraft wrote: Antenna tuners I never use an antenna tuner , on the MF and LF bands realmen use a scopematch at the Output of the Power Amp and a matching device at the base ofthe vertical antenna – HI Hi. 73 Ken K5DNL __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to d...@nk7z.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Antenna tuners
Kurt,
We are not tuning the antenna , we are matching the antenna to the coax at the
base of the antenna.
73 Ken K5DNL
On Friday, July 17, 2020, 7:10:32 PM CDT, Kurt Pawlikowski
wrote:
Ken: In some respects, a "matching device" at the base of the antenna is a
tuner! {'-) It accomplishes the same function... {'-) k WB9FMC
On 7/17/2020 6:34 PM, Ken Roberson via Elecraft wrote:
Antenna tuners
I never use an antenna tuner , on the MF and LF bands realmen use a scopematch
at the
Output of the Power Amp and a matching device at the base ofthe vertical
antenna – HI Hi.
73 Ken K5DNL
__
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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna tuners
Ken: In some respects, a "matching device" at the base of the antenna
_/is/_ a tuner! {'-) It accomplishes the same function... {'-) k WB9FMC
On 7/17/2020 6:34 PM, Ken Roberson via Elecraft wrote:
Antenna tuners
I never use an antenna tuner , on the MF and LF bands realmen use a scopematch
at the
Output of the Power Amp and a matching device at the base ofthe vertical
antenna – HI Hi.
73 Ken K5DNL
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[Elecraft] Antenna tuners
Antenna tuners I never use an antenna tuner , on the MF and LF bands realmen use a scopematch at the Output of the Power Amp and a matching device at the base ofthe vertical antenna – HI Hi. 73 Ken K5DNL __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Antenna tuners
On 8/26/07, K8TB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Speaking of antenna tuners Is there any possiblity that the new K3 antenna tuner can be put in a seperate box and be remotely controlled? If it is anything like the KAT2 then I think that the tight integration with the transceiver would make it difficult to achieve. I agree with you that the best place for the ATU is at the antenna feedpoint. I used to use a remotely mounted SGC ATU with my loop, but I missed the convenience of automatic bandswitching without having to transmit RF after each band change. A standalone, boxed ATU capable of being fully controlled by the K3 would be a nice future option. Fortunately for me, one of the few benefits of having to use indoor antennas is that I have only 2m of feeder between the K2 and the antenna feedpoint, so the losses even with an extreme mismatch are tolerable. -- Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392 K3 s/n: ??? G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com Ham-Directory: www.ham-directory.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Antenna tuners
A standalone, boxed ATU capable of being fully controlled by the K3 would be a nice future option. I agree. I suggested a remote tuner as a K3 option some time ago, but I know the plate is full at Aptos. I have an Icom AH-4 that I use with my IC-7000 in a remote configuration with my ladder line fed multiband doublet, and it is a really slick setup - both in terms of performance and convenience. Don't know what I'll do when I get my K3. SGC to me doesn't seem like a viable option. If you look at the power ratings for most of their tuners they are rated at 80W CW max. They have one that is rated for over 100W CW, but it is almost $1000. And they haven't released a new product in several years which makes one wonder about their commitment to the amateur market. A remote automatic tuner that operates seamlessly with the K3 would be a great option for Elecraft to consider. 73 ... Craig AC0DS ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Antenna tuners
Walt and all, Just one clarification (for the protection of your KAT100 and K2). The KAT100 does not talk with any RS-232 signals. It does connect to the K2 AUX I/O connector, but that is not rs-232 either - there are only 3 RS-232 signal lines (RXD, TXD and signal ground) in the AUX I/O connector. All the rest of the signals are K2 unique for communicating with the KAT100 (and remote KPA100 and/or KRC2). This is a reminder that your K2 (and KAT100 and KPA100) can be damaged by connecting a regular computer serial cable to the AUX I/O connector. It is labeled AUX I/O for that very reason - it is NOT an RS-232 port. Just because a serial cable will fit does not make it a serial port. 73, Don W3FPR [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I too have a KAT-100 and yes, it would be neat if that could be used without the RS-232 connection to the K-2. Probably some way to trick it into thinking it is connected to a K-2 :-) ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Antenna tuners
Speaking of antenna tuners Is there any possiblity that the new K3 antenna tuner can be put in a seperate box and be remotely controlled? I use a 102' dipole, fed with balanced feedline, which then goes into a back room in the basement. There, it hits a 4:1 balun, and then it sees an LDG RT-11 (a remotelly controlled antenna tuner). I then have 75 feet of coax from the antenna tuner to the shack. This is the best of all possible worlds. Any mismtach is taken care of by the tuner, and the subjected line loss of the coax. And it works very well. I convinced a buddy of mine to try a balanced fed dipole, and a remote antenna tuner, and he claims he has never had stronger signals on 40 and 80 than before. (He had over 120 feet of coax to the tuner/balun) I have no idea what tytpe of signals the K3 antenna tuner wants to and from the K3. I don't care if it's not rs-232, most CPU I/O signals can be buffered and balanced and sent a long ways. Maybe when that manual appears we can look at this. tom K8TB K3 FBxxx ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] Antenna tuners
Hi Has anyone checked to see if it would be possible to get the Kat100-1 external antenna tuner for the k2 to work with the K3? I'm planning on ordering the K3, but don't want to have to pay for two antenna tuners. Any ideas? Thanks Scott N5sm _ Learn.Laugh.Share. Reallivemoms is right place! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHMloc=us ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Antenna tuners
Has anyone checked to see if it would be possible to get the Kat100-1 external antenna tuner for the k2 to work with the K3? I'm planning on ordering the K3, but don't want to have to pay for two antenna tuners. From the K3 FAQ web pages on the Elecraft web site: The KAT100 and KPA100 in an EC2 enclosure is NOT supported. The KPA100 was designed as an integral part of the K2, and specifically not as a general purpose HF amplifier. In addition, the KPA100 does not include coverage of 6 meters. The KAT100 requires considerable bi-directional traffic on the auxbus, and could lead to RFI and other issues. 73, Ed - W0YK ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Antenna tuners
I too finally came to that conclusion ! I have a old LDG AT-11 and had it on one rig and the light bulb went off over my head and I put it in the output from the 6 port BW coax switch in the line to the linear. Now any rig that I am using gets tuned. It works great. A newer model with memories would be even better as most of my antennas are fairly well matched anyway. I too have a KAT-100 and yes, it would be neat if that could be used without the RS-232 connection to the K-2. Probably some way to trick it into thinking it is connected to a K-2 :-) Walt K8CV Royal Oak, MI. - Original Message - From: Scott McDowell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 11:13 PM Subject: [Elecraft] Antenna tuners Hi Has anyone checked to see if it would be possible to get the Kat100-1 external antenna tuner for the k2 to work with the K3? I'm planning on ordering the K3, but don't want to have to pay for two antenna tuners. Any ideas? Thanks Scott N5sm _ Learn.Laugh.Share. Reallivemoms is right place! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHMloc=us ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] Antenna tuners to be continued
earl baillley wrote: Hi Ci. Your plan is exavtly the same as mine. I have a K2 100 without tuner. Years back I had an SGC tuner which could do everything including I have wire antenna tuned by SGC. I'll build K2/100 and KAT-100. Could it be possible to use one or two antennas via KAT-100 and another via SGC? Maybe I should install one switch after K2/100. Is there a control cable or something which could prevent my plan? Rolf Moberg oh6kxl -- When replying my message, please - quote only necessary part of my text - write you reply _under_ the quotation. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
