Re: [Elecraft] Appropriate Mic for K3 (new)

2016-12-06 Thread Bruce Chadbourne
Thanks to all for the good-spirited sharing of your "mic for K3" tips.
Very, very helpful.
And I see that it prompted a few other queries on the topic.
73!  KE1CY

On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 11:06 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire <r...@cobi.biz> wrote:

> Fun is whatever is fun for you. If a nice looking new microphone is it, go
> for it!
>
> Half a century ago when microphones were still hand-made the more expensive
> ones were significantly better than the cheap variety. Considerably more
> labor went into assembling each element, and more elements failed to meet
> specs and so had to be discarded or reworked.
>
> But these days microphone manufacturing is entirely automated and a machine
> can crank out endless identically-performing high-quality elements in a
> tiny
> fraction of the time a human could. It's also why you can buy a
> first-quality wristwatch at an absurdly low cost today.
>
> A really fine microphone element can be bought for under USD$5.
>
> The rest of the cost is in the case, chrome, stand, etc., just as the cost
> of the wristwatch is in its case and band. In both cases, the cost can be
> anything from reasonable to the absurd. It's all in what you want to spend.
>
> 73, Ron AC7AC
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
> Bruce
> Chadbourne
> Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2016 6:24 AM
> To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: [Elecraft] Appropriate Mic for K3 (new)
>
> Greetings - I've had my K3 for 5 years, mostly a CW and digital operator.
> I've never done much with my microphone - just repurposing an Turner454X
> crystal mic.  I keep wondering if I'd be having more phun with a new
> 'phone.
> Without starting a holy war, perhaps a few of you could make a
> recommendation as to a specific slightly-better-than budget model.
> Better still, with Christmas coming, maybe you're eyeing a fancy upgrade
> for
> yourself and would like to sell me your modestly-priced pre-owned mic(?).
> 73 to all, Merry Christmas
> Bruce KE1CY @ arrl.net
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> delivered to r...@elecraft.com
>
>


-- 
Bruce Chadbourne PgMP/BRMP
1034 W Beagle Run Loop
Hernando, FL 34442
Office phone: 352-453-5456

If urgent, the best way to reach me is by phone. Thank you.
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Re: [Elecraft] Appropriate Mic for K3 (new)

2016-12-05 Thread w7aqk
I've taken a number of old, cheap microphone housings (hamfest 
acquisitions), and inserted an inexpensive electret cartridge.  Every one of 
them worked great!  Truth is, I think you can probably buy most any electret 
cartridge and get it to do just fine.  Some may be a bit more responsive 
than others, but I have yet to find one that doesn't do a good job.  That 
way you can pick and choose what housing you like.  All the Elecraft rigs 
provide the necessary bias right in the radios, so it is not a difficult bit 
of surgery.


My favorite headset is the Yamaha CM-500, gut I've also successfully used 
various computer headsets that are even cheaper.  You just don't need to 
spend a lot of money, unless you are looking for something special besides 
the mic element itself.  When it comes to headsets, I'm more concerned about 
the headphone part.  I've not had very good results from various Heils I 
have around here.


Dave W7AQK


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Re: [Elecraft] Appropriate Mic for K3 (new)

2016-12-05 Thread Joe Subich, W4TV


> That system applies a positive voltage in the
> range of 18 - 48VDC through close-tolerance, equal value resistors to
> the two sides of the balanced signal circuit (pins 2 and 3 of the
> XL-connector) with return for DC going to the cable shield (Pin 1).

While modern professional condenser mics use phantom power applied
through high value resistors, the *original* connection was between
the *center tap* of the audio console input transformer and shield
of the cable.  In those days a much higher current was required to
power *tube preamplifiers*.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 12/5/2016 12:32 AM, Jim Brown wrote:

On Sun,12/4/2016 8:36 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Ham microphones are the Electret type, pro-audio Condenser microphones
are different.


Yes, they are POWERED differently, but the vast majority (I'd guess 90%)
of pro mics that are called condenser mics are electrets. BUT -- that
powering system REQUIRES that they feed a balanced input and have
"balanced phantom power." That system applies a positive voltage in the
range of 18 - 48VDC through close-tolerance, equal value resistors to
the two sides of the balanced signal circuit (pins 2 and 3 of the
XL-connector) with return for DC going to the cable shield (Pin 1).

The unbalanced electret mics we use in ham radio only require a positive
voltage as bias for a FET-follower stage that transforms the very high
output impedance of the capsule to an impedance low enough to drive mic
inputs. The balanced outputs of pro electrets have an additional gain
stage with an output impedance low enough to drive a long mic cable.

48V phantom is applied through 6.8K resistors; 18V phantom is applied
through resistors of lower value. Virtually all pro mics will work with
48V, and most will work with 18V, but most non-electret condensers
require 48V.

73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Appropriate Mic for K3 (new)

2016-12-05 Thread Roger via Elecraft
Bruce,

i use a Shure 450 Series II and it works fine and you dont need the TXEQ or
BIAS.

Roger DL2YDP 



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Re: [Elecraft] Appropriate Mic for K3 (new)

2016-12-04 Thread Jim Brown

On Sun,12/4/2016 8:36 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
Ham microphones are the Electret type, pro-audio Condenser microphones 
are different.


Yes, they are POWERED differently, but the vast majority (I'd guess 90%) 
of pro mics that are called condenser mics are electrets. BUT -- that 
powering system REQUIRES that they feed a balanced input and have 
"balanced phantom power." That system applies a positive voltage in the 
range of 18 - 48VDC through close-tolerance, equal value resistors to 
the two sides of the balanced signal circuit (pins 2 and 3 of the 
XL-connector) with return for DC going to the cable shield (Pin 1).


The unbalanced electret mics we use in ham radio only require a positive 
voltage as bias for a FET-follower stage that transforms the very high 
output impedance of the capsule to an impedance low enough to drive mic 
inputs. The balanced outputs of pro electrets have an additional gain 
stage with an output impedance low enough to drive a long mic cable.


48V phantom is applied through 6.8K resistors; 18V phantom is applied 
through resistors of lower value. Virtually all pro mics will work with 
48V, and most will work with 18V, but most non-electret condensers 
require 48V.


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Appropriate Mic for K3 (new)

2016-12-04 Thread Don Wilhelm

I hesitate to refer to the common electret microphones as "condenser" mics.

While many refer to the electret element microphones as "condenser" 
microphones, be aware that in the pro-audio world, "condenser" 
microphones are different - they usually require 48 volt Phantom 
Voltage.  They may be similar in the basic element, but the 
implementation is different.
An Electret mic element requires only a bias through a 5K to 10k 
resistor to the AF line.


If you invest in a pro-audio "condenser" microphone, it will not work on 
the bias voltage designed for electret elements.


Ham microphones are the Electret type, pro-audio Condenser microphones 
are different.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 12/4/2016 11:20 PM, Matt Zilmer wrote:

*Piggybacking on Ron, since I couldn't find the original email.

I use a Heil Goldline with H4 and H5 elements, and I have an MH3.  I've
used both and no one can tell the difference because of the TX EQ.  I
suspect Don's earlier reply is spot-on as well.  You can tailor any
modern mass-produced mic to your wishes with the EQ, and it should work
quite well.  This includes inexpensive condenser(electret) mics.


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Re: [Elecraft] Appropriate Mic for K3 (new)

2016-12-04 Thread Jim Brown

Hi Bruce,

As others have noted, almost any mic that isn't "broke" can be made to 
sound very good with the TXEQ in your K3.  Something like 8 years ago, a 
member of our contest club who is, like me, an audio professional, the 
Yamaha CM500 boom mic headset and introduced our club to it. I've used 
it ever since, and am quite happy with it. It's very comfortable to 
wear, both headphones and mic sound great with the radio. It plugs 
straight into the rear panel. A few tweaks and you're ready to go. Other 
very good SSB operators have recommended a competing model, the Koss 
SB-45, which is described as quite similar.


FWIW, I always liked Turner mics for the paging systems that I 
maintained as a young engineer just starting out.


A year or so ago, I prepared a tutorial on the topic of how to get good 
audio on the air.  It's here. http://k9yc.com/ContestAudio.pdf


73, Jim K9YC

On Sun,12/4/2016 6:24 AM, Bruce Chadbourne wrote:

Greetings - I've had my K3 for 5 years, mostly a CW and digital operator.
I've never done much with my microphone - just repurposing an Turner454X
crystal mic.  I keep wondering if I'd be having more phun with a new
'phone.  Without starting a holy war, perhaps a few of you could make a
recommendation as to a specific slightly-better-than budget model.



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Re: [Elecraft] Appropriate Mic for K3 (new)

2016-12-04 Thread Matt Zilmer

*Piggybacking on Ron, since I couldn't find the original email.

I use a Heil Goldline with H4 and H5 elements, and I have an MH3.  I've 
used both and no one can tell the difference because of the TX EQ.  I 
suspect Don's earlier reply is spot-on as well.  You can tailor any 
modern mass-produced mic to your wishes with the EQ, and it should work 
quite well.  This includes inexpensive condenser(electret) mics.


73,

matt W6NIA


On 12/4/2016 8:06 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

Fun is whatever is fun for you. If a nice looking new microphone is it, go
for it!

Half a century ago when microphones were still hand-made the more expensive
ones were significantly better than the cheap variety. Considerably more
labor went into assembling each element, and more elements failed to meet
specs and so had to be discarded or reworked.

But these days microphone manufacturing is entirely automated and a machine
can crank out endless identically-performing high-quality elements in a tiny
fraction of the time a human could. It's also why you can buy a
first-quality wristwatch at an absurdly low cost today.

A really fine microphone element can be bought for under USD$5.

The rest of the cost is in the case, chrome, stand, etc., just as the cost
of the wristwatch is in its case and band. In both cases, the cost can be
anything from reasonable to the absurd. It's all in what you want to spend.

73, Ron AC7AC

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bruce
Chadbourne
Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2016 6:24 AM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] Appropriate Mic for K3 (new)

Greetings - I've had my K3 for 5 years, mostly a CW and digital operator.
I've never done much with my microphone - just repurposing an Turner454X
crystal mic.  I keep wondering if I'd be having more phun with a new 'phone.
Without starting a holy war, perhaps a few of you could make a
recommendation as to a specific slightly-better-than budget model.
Better still, with Christmas coming, maybe you're eyeing a fancy upgrade for
yourself and would like to sell me your modestly-priced pre-owned mic(?).
73 to all, Merry Christmas
Bruce KE1CY @ arrl.net
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--
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Matt Zilmer, W6NIA
[Shiraz]

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Re: [Elecraft] Appropriate Mic for K3 (new)

2016-12-04 Thread Ron D'Eau Claire
Fun is whatever is fun for you. If a nice looking new microphone is it, go
for it! 

Half a century ago when microphones were still hand-made the more expensive
ones were significantly better than the cheap variety. Considerably more
labor went into assembling each element, and more elements failed to meet
specs and so had to be discarded or reworked. 

But these days microphone manufacturing is entirely automated and a machine
can crank out endless identically-performing high-quality elements in a tiny
fraction of the time a human could. It's also why you can buy a
first-quality wristwatch at an absurdly low cost today.

A really fine microphone element can be bought for under USD$5.

The rest of the cost is in the case, chrome, stand, etc., just as the cost
of the wristwatch is in its case and band. In both cases, the cost can be
anything from reasonable to the absurd. It's all in what you want to spend. 

73, Ron AC7AC

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bruce
Chadbourne
Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2016 6:24 AM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] Appropriate Mic for K3 (new)

Greetings - I've had my K3 for 5 years, mostly a CW and digital operator.
I've never done much with my microphone - just repurposing an Turner454X
crystal mic.  I keep wondering if I'd be having more phun with a new 'phone.
Without starting a holy war, perhaps a few of you could make a
recommendation as to a specific slightly-better-than budget model.
Better still, with Christmas coming, maybe you're eyeing a fancy upgrade for
yourself and would like to sell me your modestly-priced pre-owned mic(?).
73 to all, Merry Christmas
Bruce KE1CY @ arrl.net
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Re: [Elecraft] Appropriate Mic for K3 (new)

2016-12-04 Thread Nr4c
I have a Heil HM-12. Inexpensive and good sound. 

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On Dec 4, 2016, at 9:24 AM, Bruce Chadbourne  
> wrote:
> 
> Greetings - I've had my K3 for 5 years, mostly a CW and digital operator.
> I've never done much with my microphone - just repurposing an Turner454X
> crystal mic.  I keep wondering if I'd be having more phun with a new
> 'phone.  Without starting a holy war, perhaps a few of you could make a
> recommendation as to a specific slightly-better-than budget model.
> Better still, with Christmas coming, maybe you're eyeing a fancy upgrade
> for yourself and would like to sell me your modestly-priced pre-owned
> mic(?).
> 73 to all, Merry Christmas
> Bruce KE1CY @ arrl.net
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Re: [Elecraft] Appropriate Mic for K3 (new)

2016-12-04 Thread dmoes


I have 2 mics one on an old articulated lamp arm   dynamic I 
bought at a surplus store. It was a cheep knock of of a shure SM58  
cost me $4.00   get tons of good audio remarks.   just makes me wonder 
why others need $300  condensers.


Second and a popular one on K3 is the Yamaha CM500  headset with boom 
mic.  good audio both listening and transmit.the truth is any 
comfortable computer headset with mic will work very well for you.


the transmit EQ is your friend with any mic.

David Moes
VE3SD




--- Original message ---
Subject: [Elecraft] Appropriate Mic for K3 (new)
From: Bruce Chadbourne <bruce.chadbou...@gmail.com>
To: <Elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
Date: Sunday, 04/12/2016  9:25 AM

Greetings - I've had my K3 for 5 years, mostly a CW and digital 
operator.
I've never done much with my microphone - just repurposing an 
Turner454X

crystal mic.  I keep wondering if I'd be having more phun with a new
'phone.  Without starting a holy war, perhaps a few of you could make 
a

recommendation as to a specific slightly-better-than budget model.
Better still, with Christmas coming, maybe you're eyeing a fancy 
upgrade

for yourself and would like to sell me your modestly-priced pre-owned
mic(?).
73 to all, Merry Christmas
Bruce KE1CY @ arrl.net
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Re: [Elecraft] Appropriate Mic for K3 (new)

2016-12-04 Thread W1GO (Joe)

Bruce,

You'll get a ton of responses and most will be, "don't spend a lot"; most mics 
work fine with the K3's EQ.  I do agree with Nate.  I use a Kenwood 60A (keep 
preamp off) and do quite well.  There are potential issues with RF, but the fix 
is pretty easy.  Because there has been a bad reputation of RF issues with the 
mic, you can usually pick up used ones pretty inexpensively and if it hasn't 
been modified, it's an easy fix (15 min) to do so.  Also, the same pinouts make 
the Kenwood mic a "plug and play."

Joe
W1GO

> On Dec 4, 2016, at 09:24, Bruce Chadbourne  wrote:
> 
> Greetings - I've had my K3 for 5 years, mostly a CW and digital operator.
> I've never done much with my microphone - just repurposing an Turner454X
> crystal mic.  I keep wondering if I'd be having more phun with a new
> 'phone.  Without starting a holy war, perhaps a few of you could make a
> recommendation as to a specific slightly-better-than budget model.
> Better still, with Christmas coming, maybe you're eyeing a fancy upgrade
> for yourself and would like to sell me your modestly-priced pre-owned
> mic(?).
> 73 to all, Merry Christmas
> Bruce KE1CY @ arrl.net
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Re: [Elecraft] Appropriate Mic for K3 (new)

2016-12-04 Thread Don Wilhelm

Bruce,

If you want to go really cheap, get a "computer" microphone, plug it 
into the back of the K3, turn on bias, turn the TX EQ two lowest bands 
down as far as they will go and the third band down 6dB.

If you want some high frequency shaping, increase the highest 3 bands a bit.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 12/4/2016 9:24 AM, Bruce Chadbourne wrote:

Greetings - I've had my K3 for 5 years, mostly a CW and digital operator.
I've never done much with my microphone - just repurposing an Turner454X
crystal mic.  I keep wondering if I'd be having more phun with a new
'phone.  Without starting a holy war, perhaps a few of you could make a
recommendation as to a specific slightly-better-than budget model.

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Re: [Elecraft] Appropriate Mic for K3 (new)

2016-12-04 Thread Nate Bargmann
For a desk mic I use a Kenwood MC-60A.  It has some known issues and I
did some work on it to quell some RFI though the best improvement was
getting a good ground into the shack.  It seems to work well.

73, Nate

-- 

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
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Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://www.n0nb.us
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[Elecraft] Appropriate Mic for K3 (new)

2016-12-04 Thread Bruce Chadbourne
Greetings - I've had my K3 for 5 years, mostly a CW and digital operator.
I've never done much with my microphone - just repurposing an Turner454X
crystal mic.  I keep wondering if I'd be having more phun with a new
'phone.  Without starting a holy war, perhaps a few of you could make a
recommendation as to a specific slightly-better-than budget model.
Better still, with Christmas coming, maybe you're eyeing a fancy upgrade
for yourself and would like to sell me your modestly-priced pre-owned
mic(?).
73 to all, Merry Christmas
Bruce KE1CY @ arrl.net
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