Re: [Elecraft] Is the KX3 a good choice for a new General?
I think it's almost better to get a much cheaper older rig first. In my latest run as a ham I started with an old Kenwood TS140 for about $350. It worked fine for what it could do. It couldn't break apart pileups but it allowed me to make many QSOs. However, when I got my K3--wow! I don't think I could really appreciate the K3 unless I had first used a basic rig first. I still get a thrill when I narrow the bandpass down to 50hz. I still have the TS140 which is perfect for using in high risk environments and/or lending to the next new ham. Eric WB7SDE On December 5, 2014 11:29:13 PM PST, Gary Gregory vk1zzg...@gmail.com wrote: Don You should add that the K3 has been around for quite awhile now so it has proven not just its performance but adoption by many knowledgeable hams around the world and has also proven very reliable operating in less than ideal conditionsask me how i know this:-) No better advertisement than customer satisfaction i supposegrin Gary Vk1ZZ K3, KX3, KPA500-FT, KAT500-FT,P3. On 06/12/2014 3:48 PM, Don Wilhelm w3...@embarqmail.com wrote: Yes, simple is better, but if that new ham is interested in having a top-notch station, he will be well advised to consider Elecraft gear. If for no other reason than the Elecraft gear is upgradable -- one does not have to buy the whole ball of wax at the initial purchase time, it can be upgrades as operating needs arise. My typical response to new hams is that they do not yet know what they will want for whatever type of operation they might eventually become interested in, so yes, they should get some operating experience under their belts before deciding on which rig they would want for their station. That can be simply a borrowed transceiver to get that new ham on the air. However, if the new ham does not have locals who will loan him transceivers to get on the air, the KX3 offers a great receiver, and a limited number of options, which I believe will serve the novice operator well for a very long time. The only question is do you want higher than 15 watts power? If yes, then the KXPA100 is available and if you do not have resonant antennas, the KXAT100 is a good wide range auto tuner. The K3 is also a good choice for beginning hams. Many get hung up on what filters to purchase with the K3, but my recommendation to the new ham is to purchase no optional filters - the DSP provides gppd filtering except in crowded band conditions such a contests and extreme DXing. As operating experience is gained, that new ham who has now been seasoned may want additional filters, and they are easily added to the K3. Likewise the SubRX may be useful in some operating scenarios, but the new ham would not know the advantages provided by the SubRX until he gets his feet wet. The price of a basic K3 or a basic KX3 is within the realm of other high end transceivers on the market (and in fact may be priced less than many other comparable transceivers). Bottom line, I would not hesitate to recommend a basic K3 or KX3 to any new ham. He will have a great receiver, and the options offered by Elecraft can allow that new ham to customize his station by adding options as his needs and operating experiences dictate. 73, Don W3FPR On 12/5/2014 10:55 PM, Doug Person via Elecraft wrote: I really have to agree. Simple is better to start with. I don't consider the KX3 to be simple by any means. Having some immediate success is the best way to keep a new ham interested. I keep several loaners around that aren't worth very much on the used market but serve very well as starter rigs. At least twice those loaners have gone to young men with an interest that eventually led to getting licensed. (Both now Extras). On the other hand, if a new ham has an accessible Elmer and has an opportunity for a short course in KX3 operating AND happens to be able to erect a decent antenna, it might indeed be a fine choice. Like a lot of things in life - it all depends... 73, Doug -- K0DXV On Thu, 04 Dec 2014 09:27:06 -0700, Don Butler n...@comcast.net wrote: There seems to be unanimous agreement here, but I beg to differ. In my opinion, the KX3 is not ideal for a typical beginning general class operator. I own a KX3 myself, and I think it's wonderful, and I doubt that I will ever part with it. It shines when it comes to portable operation .. That's why I bought it, that's what I use it for, and it's by far the best portable rig I've ever owned. I also have two K3s in my shack, and I use them when I'm operating there, which is the vast majority of the time. But let's face it, most beginning hams are forced to deal with budget limits, and a new KX3 is expensive. The last time I checked, the cost of a loaded KX3 with an outboard KXPA100 setup for HF only is well over $2300 plus tax and shipping, and that's without a power supply. We know that the antenna system is the most
Re: [Elecraft] Is the KX3 a good choice for a new General?
I agree that a less expensive rig may be a better way to go for a beginning ham. That being said, I'm surprised the option of a K2 hasn't been mentioned. It's a nice clean easy to use layout with an excellent RX in a compact package which can be obtained (especially used) without breaking the budget. 73, Al On Sat December 6 2014 6:57:55 am Eric Ross wrote: I think it's almost better to get a much cheaper older rig first. In my latest run as a ham I started with an old Kenwood TS140 for about $350. It worked fine for what it could do. It couldn't break apart pileups but it allowed me to make many QSOs. However, when I got my K3--wow! I don't think I could really appreciate the K3 unless I had first used a basic rig first. I still get a thrill when I narrow the bandpass down to 50hz. I still have the TS140 which is perfect for using in high risk environments and/or lending to the next new ham. Eric WB7SDE On December 5, 2014 11:29:13 PM PST, Gary Gregory vk1zzg...@gmail.com wrote: Don You should add that the K3 has been around for quite awhile now so it has proven not just its performance but adoption by many knowledgeable hams around the world and has also proven very reliable operating in less than ideal conditionsask me how i know this:-) No better advertisement than customer satisfaction i supposegrin Gary Vk1ZZ K3, KX3, KPA500-FT, KAT500-FT,P3. On 06/12/2014 3:48 PM, Don Wilhelm w3...@embarqmail.com wrote: Yes, simple is better, but if that new ham is interested in having a top-notch station, he will be well advised to consider Elecraft gear. If for no other reason than the Elecraft gear is upgradable -- one does not have to buy the whole ball of wax at the initial purchase time, it can be upgrades as operating needs arise. My typical response to new hams is that they do not yet know what they will want for whatever type of operation they might eventually become interested in, so yes, they should get some operating experience under their belts before deciding on which rig they would want for their station. That can be simply a borrowed transceiver to get that new ham on the air. However, if the new ham does not have locals who will loan him transceivers to get on the air, the KX3 offers a great receiver, and a limited number of options, which I believe will serve the novice operator well for a very long time. The only question is do you want higher than 15 watts power? If yes, then the KXPA100 is available and if you do not have resonant antennas, the KXAT100 is a good wide range auto tuner. The K3 is also a good choice for beginning hams. Many get hung up on what filters to purchase with the K3, but my recommendation to the new ham is to purchase no optional filters - the DSP provides gppd filtering except in crowded band conditions such a contests and extreme DXing. As operating experience is gained, that new ham who has now been seasoned may want additional filters, and they are easily added to the K3. Likewise the SubRX may be useful in some operating scenarios, but the new ham would not know the advantages provided by the SubRX until he gets his feet wet. The price of a basic K3 or a basic KX3 is within the realm of other high end transceivers on the market (and in fact may be priced less than many other comparable transceivers). Bottom line, I would not hesitate to recommend a basic K3 or KX3 to any new ham. He will have a great receiver, and the options offered by Elecraft can allow that new ham to customize his station by adding options as his needs and operating experiences dictate. 73, Don W3FPR On 12/5/2014 10:55 PM, Doug Person via Elecraft wrote: I really have to agree. Simple is better to start with. I don't consider the KX3 to be simple by any means. Having some immediate success is the best way to keep a new ham interested. I keep several loaners around that aren't worth very much on the used market but serve very well as starter rigs. At least twice those loaners have gone to young men with an interest that eventually led to getting licensed. (Both now Extras). On the other hand, if a new ham has an accessible Elmer and has an opportunity for a short course in KX3 operating AND happens to be able to erect a decent antenna, it might indeed be a fine choice. Like a lot of things in life - it all depends... 73, Doug -- K0DXV On Thu, 04 Dec 2014 09:27:06 -0700, Don Butler n...@comcast.net wrote: There seems to be unanimous agreement here, but I beg to differ. In my opinion, the KX3 is not ideal for a typical beginning general class operator. I own a KX3 myself, and I think it's wonderful, and I doubt that I will ever part with it. It shines when it
Re: [Elecraft] Is the KX3 a good choice for a new General?
I tend to try to save a few bux by buying used older gear. My XYL always tells me that's false economy because at some point I'll want newer/better and won't get much out of the dented scratched boat-anchors. She's SO wise. 73, Mike NF4L On Dec 6, 2014, at 10:08 AM, Al Gulseth wb5...@centurytel.net wrote: I agree that a less expensive rig may be a better way to go for a beginning ham. That being said, I'm surprised the option of a K2 hasn't been mentioned. It's a nice clean easy to use layout with an excellent RX in a compact package which can be obtained (especially used) without breaking the budget. 73, Al On Sat December 6 2014 6:57:55 am Eric Ross wrote: I think it's almost better to get a much cheaper older rig first. In my latest run as a ham I started with an old Kenwood TS140 for about $350. It worked fine for what it could do. It couldn't break apart pileups but it allowed me to make many QSOs. However, when I got my K3--wow! I don't think I could really appreciate the K3 unless I had first used a basic rig first. I still get a thrill when I narrow the bandpass down to 50hz. I still have the TS140 which is perfect for using in high risk environments and/or lending to the next new ham. Eric WB7SDE On December 5, 2014 11:29:13 PM PST, Gary Gregory vk1zzg...@gmail.com wrote: Don You should add that the K3 has been around for quite awhile now so it has proven not just its performance but adoption by many knowledgeable hams around the world and has also proven very reliable operating in less than ideal conditionsask me how i know this:-) No better advertisement than customer satisfaction i supposegrin Gary Vk1ZZ K3, KX3, KPA500-FT, KAT500-FT,P3. On 06/12/2014 3:48 PM, Don Wilhelm w3...@embarqmail.com wrote: Yes, simple is better, but if that new ham is interested in having a top-notch station, he will be well advised to consider Elecraft gear. If for no other reason than the Elecraft gear is upgradable -- one does not have to buy the whole ball of wax at the initial purchase time, it can be upgrades as operating needs arise. My typical response to new hams is that they do not yet know what they will want for whatever type of operation they might eventually become interested in, so yes, they should get some operating experience under their belts before deciding on which rig they would want for their station. That can be simply a borrowed transceiver to get that new ham on the air. However, if the new ham does not have locals who will loan him transceivers to get on the air, the KX3 offers a great receiver, and a limited number of options, which I believe will serve the novice operator well for a very long time. The only question is do you want higher than 15 watts power? If yes, then the KXPA100 is available and if you do not have resonant antennas, the KXAT100 is a good wide range auto tuner. The K3 is also a good choice for beginning hams. Many get hung up on what filters to purchase with the K3, but my recommendation to the new ham is to purchase no optional filters - the DSP provides gppd filtering except in crowded band conditions such a contests and extreme DXing. As operating experience is gained, that new ham who has now been seasoned may want additional filters, and they are easily added to the K3. Likewise the SubRX may be useful in some operating scenarios, but the new ham would not know the advantages provided by the SubRX until he gets his feet wet. The price of a basic K3 or a basic KX3 is within the realm of other high end transceivers on the market (and in fact may be priced less than many other comparable transceivers). Bottom line, I would not hesitate to recommend a basic K3 or KX3 to any new ham. He will have a great receiver, and the options offered by Elecraft can allow that new ham to customize his station by adding options as his needs and operating experiences dictate. 73, Don W3FPR On 12/5/2014 10:55 PM, Doug Person via Elecraft wrote: I really have to agree. Simple is better to start with. I don't consider the KX3 to be simple by any means. Having some immediate success is the best way to keep a new ham interested. I keep several loaners around that aren't worth very much on the used market but serve very well as starter rigs. At least twice those loaners have gone to young men with an interest that eventually led to getting licensed. (Both now Extras). On the other hand, if a new ham has an accessible Elmer and has an opportunity for a short course in KX3 operating AND happens to be able to erect a decent antenna, it might indeed be a fine choice. Like a lot of things in life - it all depends... 73, Doug -- K0DXV On Thu, 04 Dec 2014 09:27:06 -0700, Don Butler n...@comcast.net wrote:
Re: [Elecraft] Is the KX3 a good choice for a new General?
Don, $2000 to $4000??? A basic KX3 doesn't come close to $2000, and the upgrades can be added as money becomes available! I sure wish the KX3 was around when I got my novice ticket! Mark KE6BB __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Is the KX3 a good choice for a new General?
Sure Mark …. I’m of the opinion that QRP is NOT the best idea for a beginner because it can often be very frustrating without an optimal antenna (which most newbees do NOT have)….. so my estimate does not necessarily apply to those who are willing to struggle with QRP. I don’t really know about the digital modes and QRP as I’m a traditional CW and SSB guy also ….so I’m really talking about KX3 + the 100 watt external amp, key, mic and other options …..or a K3/100 with most options. My KX3 + KXPA100 and other options if purchased today would cost me over $2300 …. And I’m afraid to check what the two K3s would be … the one with subreceiver, internal tuner and several filters would be well over $4K …. And the other which is more barebones as a second SO2R radio would be close to $3K …. And I need an external 20+ amp power supply in addition to that…. So, yes …. I’d say $2K to $4K. Don, N5LZ From: Mark, KE6BB [mailto:rv6am...@yahoo.com] Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2014 12:19 PM To: Don Butler; 'Gary Gregory'; d...@w3fpr.com Cc: 'Elecraft List' Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Is the KX3 a good choice for a new General? Don, $2000 to $4000??? A basic KX3 doesn't come close to $2000, and the upgrades can be added as money becomes available! I sure wish the KX3 was around when I got my novice ticket! Mark KE6BB __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Is the KX3 a good choice for a new General?
OK, I am not a beginner, but having worked 253 DXCC with 5W and very modest antennas on my K2 I would not agree with that statementAnd I never find myself 'struggling', I just work the stuff. 73 Dave G3YMC On 6 Dec 2014 at 12:45, Don Butler wrote: TMm of the opinion that QRP is NOT the best idea for a beginner because it can often be very frustrating without an optimal antenna http://davesergeant.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Is the KX3 a good choice for a new General?
Just for clarity, the original post asked only about the KX3 - which is $899.95 kit price. That is only 20% to 45% of your stated $2K to $4K. While the pros and cons of a new general class licensee using a transceiver that produces 15 watts can be debated, my take is that -- 1) Many new hams *do* budget enough for the KX3/KXPA100/KXAT100 combo, or even a full blown K3. 2) A good receiver is more important than the amount of power, especially with compromise antennas. If the antenna must be a compromise, why create double jeopardy by using an inferior receiver. If conditions are right, even a 1 watt signal can be quite effective. 3) The KX3 (and the K3) do not have to be purchased with all the options at once - the receiver capabilities are there in the basic models, but the bells and whistles can be added as the operator gains experience and begins to understand what additional options would be of value. If you can't hear them, you can't work them, no matter what the power might be, so a good receiver is a real asset to a ham just starting out on the HF bands - to my mind more of an asset than higher power. Certainly the new op running lower power will want to stay away from contests and DX pileups to avoid frustration, but after gaining some operating experience, he can even join in those activities even with QRP levels. To respond to another earlier post in this thread, yes a used K2 would be a good choice if it has been upgraded and properly aligned and calibrated. The K2 has a fine receiver too. 73, Don W3FPR On 12/6/2014 2:45 PM, Don Butler wrote: Sure Mark …. I’m of the opinion that QRP is NOT the best idea for a beginner because it can often be very frustrating without an optimal antenna (which most newbees do NOT have)….. so my estimate does not necessarily apply to those who are willing to struggle with QRP. I don’t really know about the digital modes and QRP as I’m a traditional CW and SSB guy also ….so I’m really talking about KX3 + the 100 watt external amp, key, mic and other options …..or a K3/100 with most options. My KX3 + KXPA100 and other options if purchased today would cost me over $2300 …. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Is the KX3 a good choice for a new General?
Hi Elecrafters... This is becoming redundant so will be my final post on this thread (I apologize for the consumed bandwidth). Suffice to say that each of us will develop an opinion of our own on this subject and it will likely differ from that of many others, and that should be just fine. My shack happens to be equipped with several pieces of Elecraft gear, and I am very, very pleased with every single item. Regarding prices . yes, they are rather expensive, but I'm happy and I think the prices I paid were fair. My whole point to these posts has been that, even though we're talking about excellent equipment here, many beginning hams simply do not have the means to be able to buy these high end transceivers when they're trying to put their first station together. 73, Don, N5LZ -Original Message- From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Dave Sergeant Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2014 1:50 PM To: 'Elecraft List' Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Is the KX3 a good choice for a new General? OK, I am not a beginner, but having worked 253 DXCC with 5W and very modest antennas on my K2 I would not agree with that statementAnd I never find myself 'struggling', I just work the stuff. 73 Dave G3YMC On 6 Dec 2014 at 12:45, Don Butler wrote: TMm of the opinion that QRP is NOT the best idea for a beginner because it can often be very frustrating without an optimal antenna http://davesergeant.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to n...@comcast.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Is the KX3 a good choice for a new General?
Something new hams wrestle with is ... how much do I want to spend given that I don't know where this will take me or if I'll even stick with it? So the entry point price makes a difference. So does resell-ability in case I want out. The question of QRP operation is pertinent but not the whole discussion. Antennas are very important but any antenna a new ham puts up will likely be the same regardless of what unit they are operating from and as such the focus goes back to the equipment usability. A problem with the question ... Is the KX3 (/or any other model/) a good choice for a new General (/ham/)? ... is that it is _/*too*/_ broad. It is kinda like asking if someone is pretty/handsome. It all depends on the observer. For either question, there is no one answer! Relative to _usability _for a new ham (as opposed to flat out comparing equipment spec) mode of operation makes a huge difference to the question: If you are operating from home base (not mobile or portable) then the options increase and are different than the next modes. Now there are more options relative to used, new and power. If you are operating from vehicle mobile then the options change as well. If the ham wants portable (not mobile) then the options are severely reduced. For example, what if the final three are the 817ND, 857D and the KX3. Now the applicability to a new ham questions include: - Which of the three is a better new ham choice without any options? - If I add a $150 amp (not Elecraft) to the 817ND or the KX3 now how does it compare to the 857D (given that final power out is not identical) as it applies to usability by a new ham - If I add a antenna tuner to the 817ND, 857D KX3 and the $150 power amp, how do they compare relative to usability to a new ham. - If I take out the 817 857 then what units should be considered in addition to the KX3? And how does operation compare relative to a new ham. - What if the new ham only is interested in CW? Or Digital? Now is the KX3 a good choice? If you follow my drift, the permutations and combinations of the question explode. And note that I'm not trying to explode the discussion/question:-) Here are some variations on the original KX3 question: For fixed base, mobile, portable, Other?: - Where/why is the KX3 a good choice for a new ham? - Where/why is the KX3 a bad choice for a new ham? - What things/actions/options/etc can make a new ham successful with a KX3? Nick N1KMP __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Is the KX3 a good choice for a new General?
I agree, NIck. In past years I made a point of giving older rigs away to a new ham so they can start in the hobby without committing funds. That's where early Kenwoods (TS-520S, TS-440SAT) went and where my TS-570DG will go as soon as I find a local ham with interest. New hams seldom know what areas of this hobby will grab them, nor if they'll stay in the hobby long term. Assuming they are of limited means, spending $1K or more may not be a wise starting point if they have other viable options. Phil W7OX On 12/6/14 1:50 PM, Nick Kemp wrote: Something new hams wrestle with is ... how much do I want to spend given that I don't know where this will take me or if I'll even stick with it? So the entry point price makes a difference. So does resell-ability in case I want out. The question of QRP operation is pertinent but not the whole discussion. . Nick N1KMP __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Is the KX3 a good choice for a new General?
While I think an Elecraft rig is not a bad choice for a committed ham, or even an unsure newbie (because they retain value in the second hand market), this is a situation where a local club might help. Sometimes, hams will leave their radio estate to the club, for the purpose of providing a loaner rig for new hams or for someone whose rig went poof. It might be worth checking. And, some clubs have a fully functioning station which is available for members to use. My local club has dues of $20 a year... that's pretty cheap to get to use a raft of nice ham gear, including the nicely built antenna systems. 73 de Ray K2ULR KX3 #211 On Dec 6, 2014, at 4:58 PM, Phil Wheeler wrote: I agree, NIck. In past years I made a point of giving older rigs away to a new ham so they can start in the hobby without committing funds. That's where early Kenwoods (TS-520S, TS-440SAT) went and where my TS-570DG will go as soon as I find a local ham with interest. New hams seldom know what areas of this hobby will grab them, nor if they'll stay in the hobby long term. Assuming they are of limited means, spending $1K or more may not be a wise starting point if they have other viable options. Phil W7OX On 12/6/14 1:50 PM, Nick Kemp wrote: Something new hams wrestle with is ... how much do I want to spend given that I don't know where this will take me or if I'll even stick with it? So the entry point price makes a difference. So does resell-ability in case I want out. The question of QRP operation is pertinent but not the whole discussion. . Nick N1KMP __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to raysil...@verizon.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Is the KX3 a good choice for a new General?
And that is a great way to go. However, the eye candy of a the newer rigs is a big appeal to the uniformed and will likely be biased from then on and that's all they want. Until the day (maybe it never comes) they realize that their rig just doesn't seem to perform like someone else's, (ignoring the antenna system for the moment). Or they read on a list somewhere that their rig doesn't perform like the Humperdink 8000, then they will wish they had waited. Either way a good way to go, for sure. Visit someone's shack and even multiple stations to see what they like. Betcha it will be the eye candy rigs. Myron WVØH Printed on Recycled Data On Dec 6, 2014, at 3:07 PM, Ray Sills raysil...@verizon.net wrote: And, some clubs have a fully functioning station which is available for members to use __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Is the KX3 a good choice for a new General?
Respectfully, 253 QRP DXCC is FAR easier from anywhere around the northern Atlantic and Western EU than from many other parts of the world. W6, for example. :) On Sat,12/6/2014 12:49 PM, Dave Sergeant wrote: but having worked 253 DXCC with 5W and very modest antennas on my K2 I would not agree with that statementAnd I never find myself 'struggling', I just work the stuff. 73 Dave G3YMC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Is the KX3 a good choice for a new General?
I bought my K3 and KX3 in stages because I could not afford all at once. I owned an IC-718, IC-706mkII and an IC-746 (all previously used) as first radios. I decided to buy the K3 because of my first experience with it. I got a late night shift during a contest and suddenly had to figure it out with no introduction, and was up and running shortly. No worries. I did have guest op experience with Yaesu, Kenwood, TenTec and Icom radios. I found the K3 easy to set up and adjust. If you can afford one, it will save you much pain and frustration. On the other hand, starting with a less expensive radio will teach life lessons regarding the value of a well designed radio system. For a new ham that has some interest in contesting and dxing with CW, the feature that would sell me is APF: http://www.elecraft.com/KX3/tips/Using%20APF%20for%20weak%20signal%20CW%20work%20the%20K3%20and%20KX3.pdf APF makes learning CW much more comfortable than I expected. I am unaware of a similar feature on other radios, but may just be ignorant. It is critical for my hearing weak signals, but also critical for hearing good signals in bad conditions. There are many great features, but for someone learning CW, APF is wonderful. Richard Hill KG6JOT, AE6JW, NU6T (Tech to Extra in 2002) On 12/6/2014 1:50 PM, Nick Kemp wrote: Something new hams wrestle with is ... how much do I want to spend given that I don't know where this will take me or if I'll even stick with it? So the entry point price makes a difference. So does resell-ability in case I want out. The question of QRP operation is pertinent but not the whole discussion. Antennas are very important but any antenna a new ham puts up will likely be the same regardless of what unit they are operating from and as such the focus goes back to the equipment usability. A problem with the question ... Is the KX3 (/or any other model/) a good choice for a new General (/ham/)? ... is that it is _/*too*/_ broad. It is kinda like asking if someone is pretty/handsome. It all depends on the observer. For either question, there is no one answer! Relative to _usability _for a new ham (as opposed to flat out comparing equipment spec) mode of operation makes a huge difference to the question: If you are operating from home base (not mobile or portable) then the options increase and are different than the next modes. Now there are more options relative to used, new and power. If you are operating from vehicle mobile then the options change as well. If the ham wants portable (not mobile) then the options are severely reduced. For example, what if the final three are the 817ND, 857D and the KX3. Now the applicability to a new ham questions include: - Which of the three is a better new ham choice without any options? - If I add a $150 amp (not Elecraft) to the 817ND or the KX3 now how does it compare to the 857D (given that final power out is not identical) as it applies to usability by a new ham - If I add a antenna tuner to the 817ND, 857D KX3 and the $150 power amp, how do they compare relative to usability to a new ham. - If I take out the 817 857 then what units should be considered in addition to the KX3? And how does operation compare relative to a new ham. - What if the new ham only is interested in CW? Or Digital? Now is the KX3 a good choice? If you follow my drift, the permutations and combinations of the question explode. And note that I'm not trying to explode the discussion/question:-) Here are some variations on the original KX3 question: For fixed base, mobile, portable, Other?: - Where/why is the KX3 a good choice for a new ham? - Where/why is the KX3 a bad choice for a new ham? - What things/actions/options/etc can make a new ham successful with a KX3? Nick N1KMP __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to reh...@ix.netcom.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Is the KX3 a good choice for a new General?
I really have to agree. Simple is better to start with. I don't consider the KX3 to be simple by any means. Having some immediate success is the best way to keep a new ham interested. I keep several loaners around that aren't worth very much on the used market but serve very well as starter rigs. At least twice those loaners have gone to young men with an interest that eventually led to getting licensed. (Both now Extras). On the other hand, if a new ham has an accessible Elmer and has an opportunity for a short course in KX3 operating AND happens to be able to erect a decent antenna, it might indeed be a fine choice. Like a lot of things in life - it all depends... 73, Doug -- K0DXV On Thu, 04 Dec 2014 09:27:06 -0700, Don Butler n...@comcast.net wrote: There seems to be unanimous agreement here, but I beg to differ. In my opinion, the KX3 is not ideal for a typical beginning general class operator. I own a KX3 myself, and I think it's wonderful, and I doubt that I will ever part with it. It shines when it comes to portable operation .. That's why I bought it, that's what I use it for, and it's by far the best portable rig I've ever owned. I also have two K3s in my shack, and I use them when I'm operating there, which is the vast majority of the time. But let's face it, most beginning hams are forced to deal with budget limits, and a new KX3 is expensive. The last time I checked, the cost of a loaded KX3 with an outboard KXPA100 setup for HF only is well over $2300 plus tax and shipping, and that's without a power supply. We know that the antenna system is the most important part of any station, and that an average transceiver with a great antenna will always outperform a state of the art transceiver with a bare bones wire antenna. Some will disagree, but I believe that a beginner will obtain more enjoyment and success with a 100 watt transmitter versus a 10 watt transmitter .. He'll be able to work most of the stations he can hear, which will not happen when he's QRP. QRP operation can be very, very frustrating (you know the saying .. life is too short ...) There are many transceivers readily available on the used market . some for as little as $200 to $300. and, of course, they go on up from there. Forget about all of those high tech bench testing numbers.. a beginner simply needs a transceiver that works! I happen to have a $200 TS-520S (with internal power supply) in my shack that I fire up every once in awhile. I really doubt that most listeners can distinguish its 130 watt signal from that of my 100 watt KX3/KPA100. I would suggest that a beginner buy something like that and use the rest of his budget to build a good station and antenna system. He will likely opt to buy a new KX3, K3 or another excellent top of the line transceiver somewhere down the line, but by that time he'll have a much better idea about what he really wants, and the direction he wants to go in this wonderful hobby of ours. Don, N5LZ -Original Message- From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Edward R Cole Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2014 2:47 PM To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Is the KX3 a good choice for a new General? Actually, I would say its a good choice for any new ham (Tech or General License). It has both 10m and 6m for the Tech at 8w output which can work quite well when bands are open, and locally if not. Add the 2M module and you have 2m at 3w which will work nearby repeaters. But both 6m and 2m SSB or digital modes can also be used which offers increased diversity of operating. First step to increase usability is get a good antenna for any band considered, then maybe an amplifier. I have a HB 140w HF amp, a Mirage 125w 6m amp, and RFConcepts 35w 2m amp which the KX3 can drive. The whole lot can go mobile. The good part is when you advance in ham radio the KX3 has the capabilities to advance with you, so its not just a starter rig. Firmware improvements and additions preclude it becoming outdated technology. Quality and performance it is hard to beat for the bucks! Had I now already had a K3, the KX3 would probably be my first purchase. Of course I am not a new ham (56-years since I got my Novice: a week from tomorrow). So its a good new radio for an old timer - too! ;-) 73, Ed - KL7UW http://www.kl7uw.com Kits made by KL7UW Dubus Mag business: dubus...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to n...@comcast.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home:
Re: [Elecraft] Is the KX3 a good choice for a new General?
Yes, simple is better, but if that new ham is interested in having a top-notch station, he will be well advised to consider Elecraft gear. If for no other reason than the Elecraft gear is upgradable -- one does not have to buy the whole ball of wax at the initial purchase time, it can be upgrades as operating needs arise. My typical response to new hams is that they do not yet know what they will want for whatever type of operation they might eventually become interested in, so yes, they should get some operating experience under their belts before deciding on which rig they would want for their station. That can be simply a borrowed transceiver to get that new ham on the air. However, if the new ham does not have locals who will loan him transceivers to get on the air, the KX3 offers a great receiver, and a limited number of options, which I believe will serve the novice operator well for a very long time. The only question is do you want higher than 15 watts power? If yes, then the KXPA100 is available and if you do not have resonant antennas, the KXAT100 is a good wide range auto tuner. The K3 is also a good choice for beginning hams. Many get hung up on what filters to purchase with the K3, but my recommendation to the new ham is to purchase no optional filters - the DSP provides gppd filtering except in crowded band conditions such a contests and extreme DXing. As operating experience is gained, that new ham who has now been seasoned may want additional filters, and they are easily added to the K3. Likewise the SubRX may be useful in some operating scenarios, but the new ham would not know the advantages provided by the SubRX until he gets his feet wet. The price of a basic K3 or a basic KX3 is within the realm of other high end transceivers on the market (and in fact may be priced less than many other comparable transceivers). Bottom line, I would not hesitate to recommend a basic K3 or KX3 to any new ham. He will have a great receiver, and the options offered by Elecraft can allow that new ham to customize his station by adding options as his needs and operating experiences dictate. 73, Don W3FPR On 12/5/2014 10:55 PM, Doug Person via Elecraft wrote: I really have to agree. Simple is better to start with. I don't consider the KX3 to be simple by any means. Having some immediate success is the best way to keep a new ham interested. I keep several loaners around that aren't worth very much on the used market but serve very well as starter rigs. At least twice those loaners have gone to young men with an interest that eventually led to getting licensed. (Both now Extras). On the other hand, if a new ham has an accessible Elmer and has an opportunity for a short course in KX3 operating AND happens to be able to erect a decent antenna, it might indeed be a fine choice. Like a lot of things in life - it all depends... 73, Doug -- K0DXV On Thu, 04 Dec 2014 09:27:06 -0700, Don Butler n...@comcast.net wrote: There seems to be unanimous agreement here, but I beg to differ. In my opinion, the KX3 is not ideal for a typical beginning general class operator. I own a KX3 myself, and I think it's wonderful, and I doubt that I will ever part with it. It shines when it comes to portable operation .. That's why I bought it, that's what I use it for, and it's by far the best portable rig I've ever owned. I also have two K3s in my shack, and I use them when I'm operating there, which is the vast majority of the time. But let's face it, most beginning hams are forced to deal with budget limits, and a new KX3 is expensive. The last time I checked, the cost of a loaded KX3 with an outboard KXPA100 setup for HF only is well over $2300 plus tax and shipping, and that's without a power supply. We know that the antenna system is the most important part of any station, and that an average transceiver with a great antenna will always outperform a state of the art transceiver with a bare bones wire antenna. Some will disagree, but I believe that a beginner will obtain more enjoyment and success with a 100 watt transmitter versus a 10 watt transmitter .. He'll be able to work most of the stations he can hear, which will not happen when he's QRP. QRP operation can be very, very frustrating (you know the saying .. life is too short ...) There are many transceivers readily available on the used market . some for as little as $200 to $300. and, of course, they go on up from there. Forget about all of those high tech bench testing numbers.. a beginner simply needs a transceiver that works! I happen to have a $200 TS-520S (with internal power supply) in my shack that I fire up every once in awhile. I really doubt that most listeners can distinguish its 130 watt signal from that of my 100 watt KX3/KPA100. I would suggest that a beginner buy something like that and use the rest of his budget to build a good station and antenna system.
Re: [Elecraft] Is the KX3 a good choice for a new General?
Don You should add that the K3 has been around for quite awhile now so it has proven not just its performance but adoption by many knowledgeable hams around the world and has also proven very reliable operating in less than ideal conditionsask me how i know this:-) No better advertisement than customer satisfaction i supposegrin Gary Vk1ZZ K3, KX3, KPA500-FT, KAT500-FT,P3. On 06/12/2014 3:48 PM, Don Wilhelm w3...@embarqmail.com wrote: Yes, simple is better, but if that new ham is interested in having a top-notch station, he will be well advised to consider Elecraft gear. If for no other reason than the Elecraft gear is upgradable -- one does not have to buy the whole ball of wax at the initial purchase time, it can be upgrades as operating needs arise. My typical response to new hams is that they do not yet know what they will want for whatever type of operation they might eventually become interested in, so yes, they should get some operating experience under their belts before deciding on which rig they would want for their station. That can be simply a borrowed transceiver to get that new ham on the air. However, if the new ham does not have locals who will loan him transceivers to get on the air, the KX3 offers a great receiver, and a limited number of options, which I believe will serve the novice operator well for a very long time. The only question is do you want higher than 15 watts power? If yes, then the KXPA100 is available and if you do not have resonant antennas, the KXAT100 is a good wide range auto tuner. The K3 is also a good choice for beginning hams. Many get hung up on what filters to purchase with the K3, but my recommendation to the new ham is to purchase no optional filters - the DSP provides gppd filtering except in crowded band conditions such a contests and extreme DXing. As operating experience is gained, that new ham who has now been seasoned may want additional filters, and they are easily added to the K3. Likewise the SubRX may be useful in some operating scenarios, but the new ham would not know the advantages provided by the SubRX until he gets his feet wet. The price of a basic K3 or a basic KX3 is within the realm of other high end transceivers on the market (and in fact may be priced less than many other comparable transceivers). Bottom line, I would not hesitate to recommend a basic K3 or KX3 to any new ham. He will have a great receiver, and the options offered by Elecraft can allow that new ham to customize his station by adding options as his needs and operating experiences dictate. 73, Don W3FPR On 12/5/2014 10:55 PM, Doug Person via Elecraft wrote: I really have to agree. Simple is better to start with. I don't consider the KX3 to be simple by any means. Having some immediate success is the best way to keep a new ham interested. I keep several loaners around that aren't worth very much on the used market but serve very well as starter rigs. At least twice those loaners have gone to young men with an interest that eventually led to getting licensed. (Both now Extras). On the other hand, if a new ham has an accessible Elmer and has an opportunity for a short course in KX3 operating AND happens to be able to erect a decent antenna, it might indeed be a fine choice. Like a lot of things in life - it all depends... 73, Doug -- K0DXV On Thu, 04 Dec 2014 09:27:06 -0700, Don Butler n...@comcast.net wrote: There seems to be unanimous agreement here, but I beg to differ. In my opinion, the KX3 is not ideal for a typical beginning general class operator. I own a KX3 myself, and I think it's wonderful, and I doubt that I will ever part with it. It shines when it comes to portable operation .. That's why I bought it, that's what I use it for, and it's by far the best portable rig I've ever owned. I also have two K3s in my shack, and I use them when I'm operating there, which is the vast majority of the time. But let's face it, most beginning hams are forced to deal with budget limits, and a new KX3 is expensive. The last time I checked, the cost of a loaded KX3 with an outboard KXPA100 setup for HF only is well over $2300 plus tax and shipping, and that's without a power supply. We know that the antenna system is the most important part of any station, and that an average transceiver with a great antenna will always outperform a state of the art transceiver with a bare bones wire antenna. Some will disagree, but I believe that a beginner will obtain more enjoyment and success with a 100 watt transmitter versus a 10 watt transmitter .. He'll be able to work most of the stations he can hear, which will not happen when he's QRP. QRP operation can be very, very frustrating (you know the saying .. life is too short ...) There are many transceivers readily available on the used market . some for as little as $200 to $300. and, of course, they go on up from
Re: [Elecraft] Is the KX3 a good choice for a new General?
Don, I totally agree that a KX3 or K3 would be an excellent choice for any new licensee who can afford to spend $2000 to $4000 on his/her first ever radio. I absolutely love mine. But there are many newbees who simply cannot afford that luxury, and they need to know that there are suitable used transceivers available that are capable of providing all of the on-air enjoyment they need .. at about ONE TENTH of the new rig cost... which will likely allow them to invest more into their antenna system, which we all know is much more important than any transceiver. Don, N5LZ -Original Message- From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Gary Gregory Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2014 12:29 AM To: d...@w3fpr.com Cc: Elecraft List Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Is the KX3 a good choice for a new General? Don You should add that the K3 has been around for quite awhile now so it has proven not just its performance but adoption by many knowledgeable hams around the world and has also proven very reliable operating in less than ideal conditionsask me how i know this:-) No better advertisement than customer satisfaction i supposegrin Gary Vk1ZZ K3, KX3, KPA500-FT, KAT500-FT,P3. On 06/12/2014 3:48 PM, Don Wilhelm w3...@embarqmail.com wrote: Yes, simple is better, but if that new ham is interested in having a top-notch station, he will be well advised to consider Elecraft gear. If for no other reason than the Elecraft gear is upgradable -- one does not have to buy the whole ball of wax at the initial purchase time, it can be upgrades as operating needs arise. My typical response to new hams is that they do not yet know what they will want for whatever type of operation they might eventually become interested in, so yes, they should get some operating experience under their belts before deciding on which rig they would want for their station. That can be simply a borrowed transceiver to get that new ham on the air. However, if the new ham does not have locals who will loan him transceivers to get on the air, the KX3 offers a great receiver, and a limited number of options, which I believe will serve the novice operator well for a very long time. The only question is do you want higher than 15 watts power? If yes, then the KXPA100 is available and if you do not have resonant antennas, the KXAT100 is a good wide range auto tuner. The K3 is also a good choice for beginning hams. Many get hung up on what filters to purchase with the K3, but my recommendation to the new ham is to purchase no optional filters - the DSP provides gppd filtering except in crowded band conditions such a contests and extreme DXing. As operating experience is gained, that new ham who has now been seasoned may want additional filters, and they are easily added to the K3. Likewise the SubRX may be useful in some operating scenarios, but the new ham would not know the advantages provided by the SubRX until he gets his feet wet. The price of a basic K3 or a basic KX3 is within the realm of other high end transceivers on the market (and in fact may be priced less than many other comparable transceivers). Bottom line, I would not hesitate to recommend a basic K3 or KX3 to any new ham. He will have a great receiver, and the options offered by Elecraft can allow that new ham to customize his station by adding options as his needs and operating experiences dictate. 73, Don W3FPR On 12/5/2014 10:55 PM, Doug Person via Elecraft wrote: I really have to agree. Simple is better to start with. I don't consider the KX3 to be simple by any means. Having some immediate success is the best way to keep a new ham interested. I keep several loaners around that aren't worth very much on the used market but serve very well as starter rigs. At least twice those loaners have gone to young men with an interest that eventually led to getting licensed. (Both now Extras). On the other hand, if a new ham has an accessible Elmer and has an opportunity for a short course in KX3 operating AND happens to be able to erect a decent antenna, it might indeed be a fine choice. Like a lot of things in life - it all depends... 73, Doug -- K0DXV On Thu, 04 Dec 2014 09:27:06 -0700, Don Butler n...@comcast.net wrote: There seems to be unanimous agreement here, but I beg to differ. In my opinion, the KX3 is not ideal for a typical beginning general class operator. I own a KX3 myself, and I think it's wonderful, and I doubt that I will ever part with it. It shines when it comes to portable operation .. That's why I bought it, that's what I use it for, and it's by far the best portable rig I've ever owned. I also have two K3s in my shack, and I use them when I'm operating there, which is the vast majority of the time. But let's face it, most beginning hams are forced to deal with budget limits, and a new KX3 is
Re: [Elecraft] Is the KX3 a good choice for a new General?
There seems to be unanimous agreement here, but I beg to differ. In my opinion, the KX3 is not ideal for a typical beginning general class operator. I own a KX3 myself, and I think it's wonderful, and I doubt that I will ever part with it. It shines when it comes to portable operation .. That's why I bought it, that's what I use it for, and it's by far the best portable rig I've ever owned. I also have two K3s in my shack, and I use them when I'm operating there, which is the vast majority of the time. But let's face it, most beginning hams are forced to deal with budget limits, and a new KX3 is expensive. The last time I checked, the cost of a loaded KX3 with an outboard KXPA100 setup for HF only is well over $2300 plus tax and shipping, and that's without a power supply. We know that the antenna system is the most important part of any station, and that an average transceiver with a great antenna will always outperform a state of the art transceiver with a bare bones wire antenna. Some will disagree, but I believe that a beginner will obtain more enjoyment and success with a 100 watt transmitter versus a 10 watt transmitter .. He'll be able to work most of the stations he can hear, which will not happen when he's QRP. QRP operation can be very, very frustrating (you know the saying .. life is too short ...) There are many transceivers readily available on the used market . some for as little as $200 to $300. and, of course, they go on up from there. Forget about all of those high tech bench testing numbers.. a beginner simply needs a transceiver that works! I happen to have a $200 TS-520S (with internal power supply) in my shack that I fire up every once in awhile. I really doubt that most listeners can distinguish its 130 watt signal from that of my 100 watt KX3/KPA100. I would suggest that a beginner buy something like that and use the rest of his budget to build a good station and antenna system. He will likely opt to buy a new KX3, K3 or another excellent top of the line transceiver somewhere down the line, but by that time he'll have a much better idea about what he really wants, and the direction he wants to go in this wonderful hobby of ours. Don, N5LZ -Original Message- From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Edward R Cole Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2014 2:47 PM To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Is the KX3 a good choice for a new General? Actually, I would say its a good choice for any new ham (Tech or General License). It has both 10m and 6m for the Tech at 8w output which can work quite well when bands are open, and locally if not. Add the 2M module and you have 2m at 3w which will work nearby repeaters. But both 6m and 2m SSB or digital modes can also be used which offers increased diversity of operating. First step to increase usability is get a good antenna for any band considered, then maybe an amplifier. I have a HB 140w HF amp, a Mirage 125w 6m amp, and RFConcepts 35w 2m amp which the KX3 can drive. The whole lot can go mobile. The good part is when you advance in ham radio the KX3 has the capabilities to advance with you, so its not just a starter rig. Firmware improvements and additions preclude it becoming outdated technology. Quality and performance it is hard to beat for the bucks! Had I now already had a K3, the KX3 would probably be my first purchase. Of course I am not a new ham (56-years since I got my Novice: a week from tomorrow). So its a good new radio for an old timer - too! ;-) 73, Ed - KL7UW http://www.kl7uw.com Kits made by KL7UW Dubus Mag business: dubus...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to n...@comcast.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Is the KX3 a good choice for a new General?
I must admit, my experience was quite different. I started as a tech doing mostly 2M repeater contacts. When I upgraded my license, I had an Icom 706M2G which I used with full size dipoles. I discovered PSK31 at field day and started using the Icom at QRP levels making many contacts on 20, 40, and 80M. My log does show a very few excursions to 30-50 watts when QRP didn't get through. I also built a Small Wonders Labs PSK-20 kit and made many QRP PSK 20M contacts with it. In a moment of weakness, my YL let me buy a K3/10 and my first SSB contact in my log was the Elecraft net. After using the K3/10 with compromise antennas during the California QSO party, the YL said, Yes, you need more power. So I got the 100w amp, which is how it stands today. I still use QRP levels for digital (except RTTY which is a high power mode). I would say, what a new to HF ham needs is: Clean audio to help hear and be heard with digital modes and SSB Flexible bandwidth control to limit noise and QRM A good UI to avoid always needing to go to the manual Good antennas. Wire dipoles up high are fine. If you can't have a good antenna, 100w is an OK substitute, but, If you can't hear um, you can't work um. IMHO, clean audio is worth several S units in getting your signal through and understanding the other end. The Icom is rather poor in this area, while the K3 and KX3 are excellent. 73 Bill AE6JV On 12/4/14 at 8:27 AM, n...@comcast.net (Don Butler) wrote: There are many transceivers readily available on the used market . some for as little as $200 to $300. and, of course, they go on up from there. Forget about all of those high tech bench testing numbers.. a beginner simply needs a transceiver that works! I happen to have a $200 TS-520S (with internal power supply) in my shack that I fire up every once in awhile. I really doubt that most listeners can distinguish its 130 watt signal from that of my 100 watt KX3/KPA100. --- Bill Frantz| QRP: So you can talk about | Periwinkle (408)356-8506 | the ones that got away. | 16345 Englewood Ave www.pwpconsult.com | | Los Gatos, CA 95032 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Is the KX3 a good choice for a new General?
Well... there we have it. After Wayne and David's cogent arguments, I'll change my position, and say that the KX3 would be a good choice for a new General. Case closed. 73 de Ray K2ULR KX3 #211 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Is the KX3 a good choice for a new General?
Actually, I would say its a good choice for any new ham (Tech or General License). It has both 10m and 6m for the Tech at 8w output which can work quite well when bands are open, and locally if not. Add the 2M module and you have 2m at 3w which will work nearby repeaters. But both 6m and 2m SSB or digital modes can also be used which offers increased diversity of operating. First step to increase usability is get a good antenna for any band considered, then maybe an amplifier. I have a HB 140w HF amp, a Mirage 125w 6m amp, and RFConcepts 35w 2m amp which the KX3 can drive. The whole lot can go mobile. The good part is when you advance in ham radio the KX3 has the capabilities to advance with you, so its not just a starter rig. Firmware improvements and additions preclude it becoming outdated technology. Quality and performance it is hard to beat for the bucks! Had I now already had a K3, the KX3 would probably be my first purchase. Of course I am not a new ham (56-years since I got my Novice: a week from tomorrow). So its a good new radio for an old timer - too! ;-) 73, Ed - KL7UW http://www.kl7uw.com Kits made by KL7UW Dubus Mag business: dubus...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Is the KX3 a good choice for a new General?
Interesting thread. The dust appears to be settling, so I thought I'd weigh in. Whether I'm biased or not is left as a study question for the reader ;) We designed the KX3 specifically for new hams. Here are some considerations: - The KX3's size and weight allows it to be used anywhere, and powered from a small battery or power supply, even its internal battery pack. This means you don't have to evict anyone from precious desk or table real-estate as you dabble in your new hobby. At least not right away. You can move around, maybe use a corner of the garage, or an RV, or a picnic table. This is why we call it ultraportable. - The KX3 has about half as many controls as the K3 and other full-featured desktop radios. We kept only the essentials. And you don't need to use all of the rig's features. You can start with the basics -- VFO, AF GAIN, MODE, BAND up and down. The default settings of the radio pretty much just work. Set the power level you want and start tuning around. - The owner's manual is written with new hams in mind, with supplemental information about antennas, operating modes, and the nature of the different HF bands. We don't go into a huge amount of detail, but it's enough to get you started, and you already have a few thousand friends on the Elecraft and KX3 reflectors if you want to dive into deeper waters. The manual is organized so that basic operation is covered right up front. As time permits, you can try each more advanced feature. - At 12 W (8 to 10 on the highest few bands), the KX3's power output is only 9 dB below 100 W. Thanks to the beauty of logarithmic phenomena, that's only 1.5 to 2.5 S-units depending on whose S-meter standard you're basing it on. (We use roughly a 5-dB-per-S-unit standard at Elecraft.) Yes, it can be harder to work stations using SSB mode when you're two S-units down, but if you avoid pileups and stick with calling stations that are well above the noise level, you'll have no trouble making SSB contacts. - The KX3's wide-range ATU can greatly simplify the process of erecting antennas for all bands. Here's the simplest case: One piece of wire about 25 feet long, tossed into a tree, and a similar wire laid on the ground, can be connected directly to the radio with a BNC-to-binding post adapter (no coax). The ATU can tune this on 40-6 meters. If the wires are 50 feet long, you can also cover 60 and 80 meters. That's 80-6 meters with two wires, no coax, and a support provided free by nature (or your neighbors). Obviously you can improve on this to better your odds, say by using an off-center-fed wire of 50 to 100 feet long supported in the middle by a 20 to 40 foot pole or tree and fed with twinlead or ladder line. A balun (e.g. Elecraft BL2) would then be used at the rig to convert this sortof-balanced antenna to the radio, through a short length of coax (1 to 2 feet). - Hams who are transitioning from VHF/UHF to HF might want to add the 2-meter module (3 watts, all modes, including repeater controls, DTMF, memories, etc.). When you get tired of exploring the vast wilds of the HF bands, you can return to the familiarity of 2-m FM, etc., and chat with the locals. 73, Wayne N6KR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Is the KX3 a good choice for a new General?
I am a new ham, licensed this year (general). Wayne obviously has the design perspective re: KX3 but I wanted to talk about my experience. I'm in IT, and an engineer, so I research anything I am looking at purchasing quite heavily prior to purchase. I won't talk about why my research lead me to purchase a KX3 (and then a KXPA100, and PX3) - but I will talk about what I've found from using it, and using other people's radios. 1) Intuitive controls, menus, and logic. I can't state this one strongly enough. After having used friend's Yaesu, Icom, and even Kenwood radios, the Elecraft just makes sense. It took me minutes to get up and running with the KX3 and talking with folks SSB, as well as using digital modes. There were a few things I had to look up in the manual (when I encountered a station running split, for example) but 90% of what I've encountered I've been able to figure out without needing to reference the manual. I can't say the same for the other brand radios I've used. There's nothing wrong with those other radios, but the Elecraft just makes sense. I've had friends ask to use my KX3 as they were interested in it, and the same held true. They were able to perform most operations with little guidance, because it just makes sense. 2) Receive ability I've A/B compared my KX3 with a lot of other radios on the same antennas, and I've yet to find one that outperforms the KX3 - and I've run it against plenty of non-portable setups. I'm sure some exist, but I haven't encountered them, and I know of nothing portable that will touch the KX3 in receive capability. I live in a location with an HOA so my antenna situation is heavily compromised. Having the ability to pull signals out from noise is the difference between being on the air and not being on the air. I live next door to an air force base. I still routinely talk to people all over the US, Canada, South America, and beyond with a wire antenna that's 5' off the ground (fence-line loop fed with 450ohm window line). Sure, plenty of QRM to go around, especially when the AFB kicks off whatever radar/etc that pollutes 20m/40m/80m/etc - but I can still receive. I've had 857s over here who were unable to copy conversations, then swapped to the KX3 and while not ideal, I could get a a 100% copy. 3) Portability I camp a LOT. I can't speak highly enough about the portability of the KX3. I have 4 4200mAh LiFE batteries that I rotate through, but I've rarely had to use more than two on week long trips. I use an EFHW antenna I made tossed into trees or hung from a crappie fishing pole. Even at maximum power output on SSB, I get a huge amount of runtime out of the KX3. Only once have I had to move to the second battery on a week long camping trip, and I was very active on digital modes for that trip. I haven't done a recent measurement, but I was ~ 100-150mA draw before I got my PX3 in receive. That's 28 hours on one of those batteries (they actually are 4200-4500 mAh of capacity when tested, so could probably do an hour or two more). 4) Quality These radios are solid. I've added a Side KX to my KX3/PX3 just because they get chucked into camping backpacks quite often, but these radios are made to last. Everything fits well, everything has a very solid feel. Parts like the LCD cover (I think it's termed a screen bezel by Elecraft) are replaceable; these units were engineered to survive use and even if you manage to goof up, you can get another one and you're set. Little touches like this don't seem important until you need them. 5) Customer support I can not speak highly enough about this. I've called Elecraft for a few things since I've purchased their radio, and they have been amazingly helpful. My most recent call was asking about using the PX3 signal generator as a source for doing the temperature compensation procedure with the KX3 (don't do it!) I've always received extremely helpful advice, and had quite wonderful conversations. I've learned a lot just from those interactions, as the people at Elecraft truly do care about the hobby, and want to help out when they can. I spoke with Elecraft before I was an owner, and the information I received was not only very helpful and thorough, but it went far beyond just their product line. It's obvious this is a company that cares about amateur radio, and wants potential hobbyists to join in. I probably wouldn't be on the air at this point if it hadn't been for the helpful people at Elecraft talking to me about the ins/outs, and sharing their experiences. I hope that helps in your decision making. There are far more bullet points that I could add, but I don't want to overwhelm someone seeking to join the club. In my honest opinion, you'd be hard pressed to find a better route to go as a new ham. I'm a buy once, cry once kind of person - and the KX3 is a great way to go. If I'd purchased something else, I'd have upgraded by now based on my experience with other radios I've been around. I have 0 desire to
Re: [Elecraft] Is the KX3 a good choice for a new General?
Elecraft customer support is second to none. The KX3 is definitely a keeper - you just don't see these things selling second hand. That's a pretty good indicator of customer satisfaction. In my opinion the KX3 is a brilliant bit of kit and something you'll never regret purchasing (and will keep forever). Peter VK4JD -Original Message- From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of David Orman Sent: Wednesday, 3 December 2014 4:24 PM To: Wayne Burdick Cc: Elecraft Reflector; k...@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Is the KX3 a good choice for a new General? I am a new ham, licensed this year (general). Wayne obviously has the design perspective re: KX3 but I wanted to talk about my experience. I'm in IT, and an engineer, so I research anything I am looking at purchasing quite heavily prior to purchase. I won't talk about why my research lead me to purchase a KX3 (and then a KXPA100, and PX3) - but I will talk about what I've found from using it, and using other people's radios. 1) Intuitive controls, menus, and logic. I can't state this one strongly enough. After having used friend's Yaesu, Icom, and even Kenwood radios, the Elecraft just makes sense. It took me minutes to get up and running with the KX3 and talking with folks SSB, as well as using digital modes. There were a few things I had to look up in the manual (when I encountered a station running split, for example) but 90% of what I've encountered I've been able to figure out without needing to reference the manual. I can't say the same for the other brand radios I've used. There's nothing wrong with those other radios, but the Elecraft just makes sense. I've had friends ask to use my KX3 as they were interested in it, and the same held true. They were able to perform most operations with little guidance, because it just makes sense. 2) Receive ability I've A/B compared my KX3 with a lot of other radios on the same antennas, and I've yet to find one that outperforms the KX3 - and I've run it against plenty of non-portable setups. I'm sure some exist, but I haven't encountered them, and I know of nothing portable that will touch the KX3 in receive capability. I live in a location with an HOA so my antenna situation is heavily compromised. Having the ability to pull signals out from noise is the difference between being on the air and not being on the air. I live next door to an air force base. I still routinely talk to people all over the US, Canada, South America, and beyond with a wire antenna that's 5' off the ground (fence-line loop fed with 450ohm window line). Sure, plenty of QRM to go around, especially when the AFB kicks off whatever radar/etc that pollutes 20m/40m/80m/etc - but I can still receive. I've had 857s over here who were unable to copy conversations, then swapped to the KX3 and while not ideal, I could get a a 100% copy. 3) Portability I camp a LOT. I can't speak highly enough about the portability of the KX3. I have 4 4200mAh LiFE batteries that I rotate through, but I've rarely had to use more than two on week long trips. I use an EFHW antenna I made tossed into trees or hung from a crappie fishing pole. Even at maximum power output on SSB, I get a huge amount of runtime out of the KX3. Only once have I had to move to the second battery on a week long camping trip, and I was very active on digital modes for that trip. I haven't done a recent measurement, but I was ~ 100-150mA draw before I got my PX3 in receive. That's 28 hours on one of those batteries (they actually are 4200-4500 mAh of capacity when tested, so could probably do an hour or two more). 4) Quality These radios are solid. I've added a Side KX to my KX3/PX3 just because they get chucked into camping backpacks quite often, but these radios are made to last. Everything fits well, everything has a very solid feel. Parts like the LCD cover (I think it's termed a screen bezel by Elecraft) are replaceable; these units were engineered to survive use and even if you manage to goof up, you can get another one and you're set. Little touches like this don't seem important until you need them. 5) Customer support I can not speak highly enough about this. I've called Elecraft for a few things since I've purchased their radio, and they have been amazingly helpful. My most recent call was asking about using the PX3 signal generator as a source for doing the temperature compensation procedure with the KX3 (don't do it!) I've always received extremely helpful advice, and had quite wonderful conversations. I've learned a lot just from those interactions, as the people at Elecraft truly do care about the hobby, and want to help out when they can. I spoke with Elecraft before I was an owner, and the information I received was not only very helpful and thorough, but it went far beyond just their product line. It's obvious this is a company that cares about amateur radio, and wants potential hobbyists to join in. I probably wouldn't
