Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Using Multiple Antennas With the Tuner

[N4ZR]

I agree, Dick - power settings per band are fine.  The issue is power 
settings per band and  per matching solution


73, Pete N4ZR
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On 10/16/2020 11:01 PM, Dick Dievendorff wrote:

Your K3 stores the power settings. The amp reports when it goes in and out of 
OPER and the K3 (and K4) store two power settings per band, one for the amp in 
STBY, another for amp in OPER. You adjust these levels at the exciter, and 
they’re retained for recall on band switch and power off/on. Mine are typically 
100w for amp in STBY and 25-35w for amp in OPER. I’m primarily a CW guy, but in 
digital modes I often drop down to see who I can reach with good antennas and 
little power.

There are K3 and K4 menu choices for “Per band power” to enable this.

73 de Dick, K6KR


On Oct 16, 2020, at 19:09, N4ZR  wrote:

Precisely what I thought, Jim.  The KPA-1500 already adjusts the K3's output 
power when the amp switches to OPER, from 100 watts in STBY to a preset, much 
lower value in OPER, but I don't know if they can store and recall drive power 
levels by band and antenna

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at , now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.


On 10/16/2020 3:54 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

...I suspect that, to have the system automatically change power in the manner 
that Pete needs, Elecraft would need to write software to remember and change 
drive levels from the transceiver on command from the KPA1500.

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Using Multiple Antennas With the Tuner

[Jim Brown]

On 10/16/2020 7:39 PM, K8TE wrote:

there is no
solution currently available when using an external antenna switch
(necessary with more than two antennas) with the KPA1500. 


I see it as an issue only when using more than one antenna ON THE SAME 
BAND. I have two antennas for 30, 20, 15, and 10M, and three antennas 
for 160, 80, and 40M. My antenna switching system was developed for the 
KAT500. My long 6M Yagi goes to port #2.


 Unfortunately,

there is no way for the KPA1500 to tell the K3/K3S to use a different drive
level, even when using ANT1 and ANT2 on the same band, but with two
different antennas that require different tuning solutions.

My (not yet implemented) initial solution is to use a macro for band changes
that will drop the drive level based on previously-determined data when
selecting a new band/antenna.  The long term solutions is a computer (Pi,
Arduino, PC, etc.) with the appropriate tables with the data entered from
empirical testing.  I only wish the ability (firmware and hardware) had been
included in the original design.


Yes, that's unfortunate. I think Dick has done a great job with the 
tuner design, with it's capability to switch between multiple trained 
settings for every frequency!


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Using Multiple Antennas With the Tuner

[Dick Dievendorff]

Your K3 stores the power settings. The amp reports when it goes in and out of 
OPER and the K3 (and K4) store two power settings per band, one for the amp in 
STBY, another for amp in OPER. You adjust these levels at the exciter, and 
they’re retained for recall on band switch and power off/on. Mine are typically 
100w for amp in STBY and 25-35w for amp in OPER. I’m primarily a CW guy, but in 
digital modes I often drop down to see who I can reach with good antennas and 
little power.

There are K3 and K4 menu choices for “Per band power” to enable this.

73 de Dick, K6KR

> On Oct 16, 2020, at 19:09, N4ZR  wrote:
> 
> Precisely what I thought, Jim.  The KPA-1500 already adjusts the K3's output 
> power when the amp switches to OPER, from 100 watts in STBY to a preset, much 
> lower value in OPER, but I don't know if they can store and recall drive 
> power levels by band and antenna
> 
> 73, Pete N4ZR
> Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
> at , now
> spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
> For spots, please use your favorite
> "retail" DX cluster.
> 
>> On 10/16/2020 3:54 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
>> 
>> ...I suspect that, to have the system automatically change power in the 
>> manner that Pete needs, Elecraft would need to write software to remember 
>> and change drive levels from the transceiver on command from the KPA1500.
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Using Multiple Antennas With the Tuner

[K8TE]

I too have the same issue.  I worked with Dick on this, but there is no
solution currently available when using an external antenna switch
(necessary with more than two antennas) with the KPA1500.  Unfortunately,
there is no way for the KPA1500 to tell the K3/K3S to use a different drive
level, even when using ANT1 and ANT2 on the same band, but with two
different antennas that require different tuning solutions.  

My (not yet implemented) initial solution is to use a macro for band changes
that will drop the drive level based on previously-determined data when
selecting a new band/antenna.  The long term solutions is a computer (Pi,
Arduino, PC, etc.) with the appropriate tables with the data entered from
empirical testing.  I only wish the ability (firmware and hardware) had been
included in the original design.

I'll take my KPA1500 to Lubbock next weekend for the CQ WW DX SSB Contest. 
I reconfigure the station's antenna switching to use ANT1 and ANT2 in the
KPA1500.  I carefully choose antennas by band so the two ports use the same
antennas by band and train the KPA1500 tuner appropriately.  The KPA1500 and
2x8 antenna switch follow the IC-7610 band and frequency data.  The hardest
part is prying the KPA1500 out of the station owner's hands so I can take it
back home!

Anyone with near perfect antenna systems (minimal tuning solutions needed)
won't have this problem.  Maybe I'll get there someday?  As Rosana
Rosanadana used to say:  "It's always something."  (not the same without
Gilda Radner voicing it!)

73, Bill, K8TE

P.S.  I have also noticed a big (300-400 Watts) difference in output after a
"long" pause in use (15-30 minutes) along with the difference between
antenna solutions on the two ports for the same frequency.



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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Using Multiple Antennas With the Tuner

[N4ZR]

Precisely what I thought, Jim.  The KPA-1500 already adjusts the K3's 
output power when the amp switches to OPER, from 100 watts in STBY to a 
preset, much lower value in OPER, but I don't know if they can store and 
recall drive power levels by band and antenna


73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at , now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

On 10/16/2020 3:54 PM, Jim Brown wrote:


...I suspect that, to have the system automatically change power in 
the manner that Pete needs, Elecraft would need to write software to 
remember and change drive levels from the transceiver on command from 
the KPA1500.

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Using Multiple Antennas With the Tuner

[David Box]

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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft] KPA1500 Using Multiple Antennas With the Tuner

[ockmrzr]

I will try that.

73 de Bruce, N7TY
Yuma, AZ
www.qsl.net/n7ty

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Jim McCook
Sent: October 16, 2020 16:47
To: Elecraft Reflector 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft] KPA1500 Using Multiple Antennas With the Tuner

Bruce,

You can set the KPA1500 to automatically go to STBY when you change bands.  
Band Change > STBY:  YES.

Jim
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft] KPA1500 Using Multiple Antennas With the Tuner

[Jim McCook]

Bruce,

You can set the KPA1500 to automatically go to STBY when you change 
bands.  Band Change > STBY:  YES.


Jim
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Using Multiple Antennas With the Tuner

[ockmrzr]

Jim,

I have been following the thread.  Same, same here.  K3 driving the KPA1500, 
using AN1 jack only to a 6 PAK that is controlled by a Bandmaster V connected 
to the K3 for band data.  I am going to try OPER / STBY trick when changing 
bands. 

73 de Bruce, N7TY
Yuma, AZ
www.qsl.net/n7ty

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Jim McCook
Sent: October 16, 2020 13:49
To: Elecraft Reflector 
Subject: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Using Multiple Antennas With the Tuner

Jim, Thanks for the info.  You understand the problem for sure.  Dick is being 
very helpful now, but I'm getting erratic data for him because switching 
between antennas sometimes only results in "NEED TUNE PWR" 
with OK result after a few seconds, and other times I get the fault due to 
initially high SWR and high power output.  I'll probably go with switching to 
STBY before applying RF to the new antenna.  That way the instant mismatch 
won't create a fault due to 1800w output!  BTW I hope your house was unaffected 
by the fire.  I feel badly for Bob.

Dave that ANT1 ANT2 arrangement will not work with my setup for other 
reasons.  Thanks anyhow for the suggestion.

Jim
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[Elecraft] KPA1500 Using Multiple Antennas With the Tuner

[Jim McCook]

Jim, Thanks for the info.  You understand the problem for sure.  Dick is 
being very helpful now, but I'm getting erratic data for him because 
switching between antennas sometimes only results in "NEED TUNE PWR" 
with OK result after a few seconds, and other times I get the fault due 
to initially high SWR and high power output.  I'll probably go with 
switching to STBY before applying RF to the new antenna.  That way the 
instant mismatch won't create a fault due to 1800w output!  BTW I hope 
your house was unaffected by the fire.  I feel badly for Bob.


Dave that ANT1 ANT2 arrangement will not work with my setup for 
other reasons.  Thanks anyhow for the suggestion.


Jim
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Using Multiple Antennas With the Tuner

[Jim Brown]

On 10/16/2020 12:26 PM, Jim McCook wrote:
Dave, yes, one coax from the amp to a manual switch.  Your question is 
the same as mine.  Somehow the KPA1500 should know by sensing a rise in 
SWR and shutting down most of the drive power or output somehow so the 
tuner can go through its motions without excessive output or a fault.


I'm doing the same thing you are, Jim -- a dozen or so antennas, often 2 
or 3 for the same band. I've been lazy about training the KPA1500, but 
it is smart enough to switch between saved tunings within a reasonable 
range.


I suspect that, to have the system automatically change power in the 
manner that Pete needs, Elecraft would need to write software to 
remember and change drive levels from the transceiver on command from 
the KPA1500.


My solution is an LP100A with sensors inline with the amp outputs from 
both stations in my SO2R setup, and I manually adjust drive levels as 
needed. The LO100A is positioned right in front of me, so I can't miss 
it, and I have it set for peak hold, which gives me a worst case number 
for power out. My K3s do a bit of power hunting when I adjust power, 
starting high on the first dits and dropping back to the intended 
setting, so I often need to do multiple tweaks of drive level to get up 
to legal limit.


73, Jim K9YC



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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Using Multiple Antennas With the Tuner

[David Box]

Jim, If it is a manual switch then must be a short run from KPA to switch so 
why not connect to ANT1 ANT2 on KPA and switch with KPA.  KPA stores separate 
solutions for each ANT.
de Dave K5MWR 


On October 16, 2020 2:26:13 PM CDT, Jim McCook  wrote:
>Dave, yes, one coax from the amp to a manual switch.  Your question is 
>the same as mine.  Somehow the KPA1500 should know by sensing a rise in
>
>SWR and shutting down most of the drive power or output somehow so the 
>tuner can go through its motions without excessive output or a fault.
>
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Using Multiple Antennas With the Tuner

[Jim McCook]

Dave, yes, one coax from the amp to a manual switch.  Your question is 
the same as mine.  Somehow the KPA1500 should know by sensing a rise in 
SWR and shutting down most of the drive power or output somehow so the 
tuner can go through its motions without excessive output or a fault.


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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Using Multiple Antennas With the Tuner

[David Box]

If I am reading this thread correctly you have one coax from the KPA feeding a 
remote antenna switch.  If correct how do you expect the KPA to know you 
switched?
de Dave K5MWR 

On October 16, 2020 1:54:02 PM CDT, Jim McCook  wrote:
>I meant to say the tuner settings were made with the KPA1500 in STBY 
>with the K3 TUNE PWR set to 40w.  Jim
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[Elecraft] KPA1500 Using Multiple Antennas With the Tuner

[Jim McCook]

I meant to say the tuner settings were made with the KPA1500 in STBY 
with the K3 TUNE PWR set to 40w.  Jim

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[Elecraft] KPA1500 Using Multiple Antennas With the Tuner

[Jim McCook]

I followed N4ZR’s thread and did not see a solution.I have the same 
problem as Pete.I’ve got two antennas on 3 bands.I’ve put the tuner 
settings in all the bins on those bands for each each antenna.Neither 
antenna has SWR over 2.5:1.I can then step through the bins with RF on 
each of those bands with ONE antenna with no problem.However, the tuner 
settings were made with 40w.


If I am in a contest and decide to quickly change antennas to call 
someone, the tuner doesn’t recognize the antenna change until RF is 
applied.I apply the same drive power ~30w and before the tuner selects 
the new setting, it sees the mismatch and output jumps to over 1700w, 
high SWR is displayed, and a fault occurs.The only way I can avoid this 
is first go to STBY, apply RF and wait for the new tuner setting to be 
sensed and applied, then go back to OPER.  To go back to the original 
antenna I have to do that all over again. I don’t think this is how it’s 
supposed to be, but I think there must be no solution.How can we go from 
one antenna to another without this problem?73, Jim W6YA


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