RE: [Elecraft] APP roll pins
Charles, I believe that the Elecraft Moderator has asked for this Disruptive thread APP Roll Pins to come to a halt. I am not sure what point you are trying to make here. K4PV -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Charles Harpole Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 9:59 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Tom Hammond Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: RE: [Elecraft] APP roll pins APPs are bad design, bad technology, just bad why? 1 the crimp or solder or buy a special tool or what facts as noted often here. 2. need glue often what!!! 3. no strain relief. 4. no repeat use, can not be used again. 5. do not step on this plastic or u will need another set. 6. do not get caught outside the easy ordering/purchase of these dogs or u will be sticking a bare wire into the socket when ur apps are broken. Surprise, most of the world never hrd of these things ... and for good reason. When, oh when, will users of this junk wake up to its obvious limits and abandon the false start they represent? Charles Harpole [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 09:15:03 -0400 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] APP roll pins CC: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Tom and all, That is quite contrary to my experience. The APP housings that I have purchased (from both PowerWerks and West Mountain Radio) have dovetail matings that need quite a bit of force to slide completely together, and I lock them with a drop of SuperGlue. I never had one come apart, and that includes the 3 of them that are in constant use on the workbench. The ones in the hamshack are more permanent - they are seldom changed. I have roll pins and use them only sometimes. If I use the roll pins, I lock the pins in place with a drop of Superglue. BTW - I just saw evidence that using the 'good' West Mountain crimper is not the entire answer. The crimps this gentleman had made with that tool had distorted the connector barrel and tongue severely such that good contact was not made. When we discussed the problem, I found that he was using the tool improperly. So even the proper tool can produce a bad job if you do not know what a good crimped connection looks like. Unfortunately, West Mountain Radio does not provide any instructions with the tool. 73, Don W3FPR Tom Hammond wrote: I must admit that I have had less than stellar results with the roll pins myself... having a number fall out over time. Fortunately none fell into 'sensitive' electronic areas... they just fall out... I didn't have have all that good luck with Super Glues either... not sure why, but the several times I tried them did not end well, with the connectors STILL coming apart. I think I like the idea of filling the 'roll pin hole' with hot glue. That seems like a much more viable method. I currently use a short length of #12 solid copper wire, stuck thru the hole and then bent (on both ends) around at least two sides of each of the APP connector shells. This method allows for a slight amount of movement between the shells, but it does keep them together and in a manner which allows for complete disassembly if necessary at a later time. It's not terribly 'pretty', but it does work. 73, Tom Hammond N0SS ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] APP roll pins
I must admit that I have had less than stellar results with the roll pins myself... having a number fall out over time. Fortunately none fell into 'sensitive' electronic areas... they just fall out... I didn't have have all that good luck with Super Glues either... not sure why, but the several times I tried them did not end well, with the connectors STILL coming apart. I think I like the idea of filling the 'roll pin hole' with hot glue. That seems like a much more viable method. I currently use a short length of #12 solid copper wire, stuck thru the hole and then bent (on both ends) around at least two sides of each of the APP connector shells. This method allows for a slight amount of movement between the shells, but it does keep them together and in a manner which allows for complete disassembly if necessary at a later time. It's not terribly 'pretty', but it does work. 73, Tom Hammond N0SS At 21:29 04/05/2008, Mike B wrote: I've purchased an APP pack or two that instead of having real roll pins (as in a flat piece of metal rolled over on itself, having a bit of spring tension in the process), just a piece of tiny metal tubing. While these slipped in place, they also tended to slip out of place. I'm guessing that this is what many dissatisfied APP users have purchased, instead of getting a pack with real roll pins. Dave G. wrote: The APP kit I bought (some time ago) from PowerWerx contained the cheap crimper, anc 20 sets of 30A APP's including the roll pins... In over three years I have NOT had a roll pin come out!! 73, Mike KW1ND ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] APP roll pins
Tom and all, That is quite contrary to my experience. The APP housings that I have purchased (from both PowerWerks and West Mountain Radio) have dovetail matings that need quite a bit of force to slide completely together, and I lock them with a drop of SuperGlue. I never had one come apart, and that includes the 3 of them that are in constant use on the workbench. The ones in the hamshack are more permanent - they are seldom changed. I have roll pins and use them only sometimes. If I use the roll pins, I lock the pins in place with a drop of Superglue. BTW - I just saw evidence that using the 'good' West Mountain crimper is not the entire answer. The crimps this gentleman had made with that tool had distorted the connector barrel and tongue severely such that good contact was not made. When we discussed the problem, I found that he was using the tool improperly. So even the proper tool can produce a bad job if you do not know what a good crimped connection looks like. Unfortunately, West Mountain Radio does not provide any instructions with the tool. 73, Don W3FPR Tom Hammond wrote: I must admit that I have had less than stellar results with the roll pins myself... having a number fall out over time. Fortunately none fell into 'sensitive' electronic areas... they just fall out... I didn't have have all that good luck with Super Glues either... not sure why, but the several times I tried them did not end well, with the connectors STILL coming apart. I think I like the idea of filling the 'roll pin hole' with hot glue. That seems like a much more viable method. I currently use a short length of #12 solid copper wire, stuck thru the hole and then bent (on both ends) around at least two sides of each of the APP connector shells. This method allows for a slight amount of movement between the shells, but it does keep them together and in a manner which allows for complete disassembly if necessary at a later time. It's not terribly 'pretty', but it does work. 73, Tom Hammond N0SS ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] APP roll pins
Just a comment on the APP connectors and roll pins. There are many ways to solve the problem, some good and some not so good. Everyone that's used them long enough will probably have tackled the disappearing roll pin dilemma at one time or another. Glueing them tends not to work because most glues don't like shear force after being applied, and that's what happens when you slide the two halves of the connector back together after putting the glue on them. Super glue is really succeptible to this because it sets so fast. Other types of glue have been used with varying degrees of success, mostly poor. My solution was to clamp the connector halves in a vise, run a 4-40 tap through the hole and then use a 4-40 x 1/4 setscrew screwed into the hole to keep them from coming apart. You can also use a miniscule drop of blue Loc-Tite on the threads of the setscrew to sort of lock it in place -- haven't had one come apart since I started doing this. If you decide to try it, make sure you snug the connector in the vise, but not so tight that you deform it. Carefully run the tap in and out of the hole. Put the 4-40 x 1/4 setscrew into the hole before you remove the connector from the vise. Check to make sure the APP will still mate with another one and hasn't spread from the pressure if the setscrew. If it has, remove the screw, reclamp it and run the tap back forth several times to cut the threads deeper. I've found this method works best with a new, sharp tap. Not all APP's are created equal, and some of the plastic material seems to be harder than others. Probably depends on what plastic mix was used when they were formed at the factory. Jim Sheldon, W0EB ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] APP roll pins
This is crazy. Who would ever want to use a connector with all the problems and care and feeding of the APP's? Something has gotten lost here. Imagine if you had to go endure all of this for the AC plugs on all your household appliances? Either the connector is no darn good or the problems reported here are greatly exaggerated. The function is of a connector is to plug it in and forget about. It should be completely trouble free and a non-issue--ever. de K3KO Dave G. wrote: The APP kit I bought (some time ago) from PowerWerx contained the cheap crimper, anc 20 sets of 30A APP's including the roll pins... In over three years I have NOT had a roll pin come out!! -- Dave G. KK7SS '65 MK III Sprite in Richland, WA Two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. But I'm not so sure about the universe. ... Albert Einstein. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/APP-roll-pins-tp16520010p16524603.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] APP roll pins
At 08:12 AM 06/04/08, you wrote: This is crazy. Either the connector is no darn good or the problems reported here are greatly exaggerated. Well said! It's fun to follow the threads and see just how far they go though. I think G4ILO put an end to the 7.5 lb knob thread with his comment too. :-) JOhn k7up ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] APP roll pins
Actually, the 'basic' APP connectors have few 'problems'... they slip together nicely and if properly assembled, require little additional 'help'. The discussion had to do with the perceived need to 'help' them by inserting pins to keep them from coming apart, which is rare anyway. I virtually NEVER 'pin' my APP connectors, and have had very few problems at all. However, WHEN I DO pin them, I was reporting my experiences. I've been using APP connectors since before they were APP connectors. There was a previous manufacturer... and I've been using them for at least 15 years now with extremely good results. Tom N0SS At 09:12 04/06/2008, K3KO wrote: This is crazy. Who would ever want to use a connector with all the problems and care and feeding of the APP's? Something has gotten lost here. Imagine if you had to go endure all of this for the AC plugs on all your household appliances? Either the connector is no darn good or the problems reported here are greatly exaggerated. The function is of a connector is to plug it in and forget about. It should be completely trouble free and a non-issue--ever. de K3KO Dave G. wrote: The APP kit I bought (some time ago) from PowerWerx contained the cheap crimper, anc 20 sets of 30A APP's including the roll pins... In over three years I have NOT had a roll pin come out!! -- Dave G. KK7SS '65 MK III Sprite in Richland, WA Two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. But I'm not so sure about the universe. ... Albert Einstein. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/APP-roll-pins-tp16520010p16524603.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] APP roll pins
Sermos. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] APP roll pins
FWIW, I've been using APPs for years with no problems at all. I solder the wires and have not had a single breakage. As I mentioned earlier, millions of connectors do that with no problem. The trick is to avoid forcing the stiff portion of the wire to bend constantly or to force one small area - such as the exposed wire between the insulation and the terminal to do all the bending. I've never had a connector come apart, pin or no pin. The shells mate very securely. (All of mine use the Anderson red/black zip wire that won't let the shells move anyway!) When inserted properly, the terminals will not come out of the shells under any conditions of use. Ron AC7AC ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] APP roll pins
Hi All, I think the problems have been exagerated. I have been using PP connectors on all of my 12-volt toys for the past six years, with roll pins, both soldered and crimped, without problems of any kind. YMMV. 73, John, W2GW - Original Message - From: John [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 10:32 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] APP roll pins At 08:12 AM 06/04/08, you wrote: This is crazy. Either the connector is no darn good or the problems reported here are greatly exaggerated. Well said! It's fun to follow the threads and see just how far they go though. I think G4ILO put an end to the 7.5 lb knob thread with his comment too. :-) JOhn k7up ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] APP roll pins
K3KO's response is the best I have read in this thread so far and I agree 100%. I have been using and putting up with these APP's for at least 6-7 years and have learned that I always crimp them using a cheap crimper and I always solder them too. It took a while for me to learn (I am a slow learner) that you must crimp it near the edge where the wire goes into the connector. Stay as far away as you can from the contact end so that you don't deform it to the point where you can't insert it into the housing. I don't use heat shrink tubing but I may in the future. I know many of you don't agree but this is what works best for me. To me the APP's are a pain to assemble and they are not reliable because they come apart too easy even though they snap together properly. I had to get these remarks in before Eric pulls the plug which should be any day now. John[K7SVV] P.S. I use the roll pin. - Original Message - From: K3KO [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 7:12 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] APP roll pins This is crazy. Who would ever want to use a connector with all the problems and care and feeding of the APP's? Something has gotten lost here. Imagine if you had to go endure all of this for the AC plugs on all your household appliances? Either the connector is no darn good or the problems reported here are greatly exaggerated. The function is of a connector is to plug it in and forget about. It should be completely trouble free and a non-issue--ever. de K3KO Dave G. wrote: The APP kit I bought (some time ago) from PowerWerx contained the cheap crimper, anc 20 sets of 30A APP's including the roll pins... In over three years I have NOT had a roll pin come out!! -- Dave G. KK7SS '65 MK III Sprite in Richland, WA Two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. But I'm not so sure about the universe. ... Albert Einstein. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/APP-roll-pins-tp16520010p16524603.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.8/1362 - Release Date: 4/6/2008 11:12 AM ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] APP roll pins
Hi I have been using these for several years and they are on all of my 12 volt stuff. I mounted a 5 circuit RigRunner on my work bench that I can plug into to power radios I am working on. I have used the roll pins but do not use them any more. If you are careful to make the wires exactly the same length the connectors will not tend to come apart. I have found the glue for PVC pipe works well to glue the connectors. I like it better than super glue. Use a tiny bit on one side before you slide the dovetails together. If you think you need a roll pin glue a toothpick into the hole for the pin and clip off the excess with flush cutters. If it ever does come out at least it will not short out anything. Thanks Don Brown KD5NDB K3 S/N 0575 -- From: John [K7SVV] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 1:03 PM To: K3KO [EMAIL PROTECTED]; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] APP roll pins K3KO's response is the best I have read in this thread so far and I agree 100%. I have been using and putting up with these APP's for at least 6-7 years and have learned that I always crimp them using a cheap crimper and I always solder them too. It took a while for me to learn (I am a slow learner) that you must crimp it near the edge where the wire goes into the connector. Stay as far away as you can from the contact end so that you don't deform it to the point where you can't insert it into the housing. I don't use heat shrink tubing but I may in the future. I know many of you don't agree but this is what works best for me. To me the APP's are a pain to assemble and they are not reliable because they come apart too easy even though they snap together properly. I had to get these remarks in before Eric pulls the plug which should be any day now. John[K7SVV] P.S. I use the roll pin. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] APP roll pins [END of Thread]
Let's end this thread for now. 73, Eric WA6HHQ Elecraft List Moderator _..._ ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] APP roll pins
APPs are bad design, bad technology, just bad why? 1 the crimp or solder or buy a special tool or what facts as noted often here. 2. need glue often what!!! 3. no strain relief. 4. no repeat use, can not be used again. 5. do not step on this plastic or u will need another set. 6. do not get caught outside the easy ordering/purchase of these dogs or u will be sticking a bare wire into the socket when ur apps are broken. Surprise, most of the world never hrd of these things ... and for good reason. When, oh when, will users of this junk wake up to its obvious limits and abandon the false start they represent? Charles Harpole [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 09:15:03 -0400 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] APP roll pins CC: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Tom and all, That is quite contrary to my experience. The APP housings that I have purchased (from both PowerWerks and West Mountain Radio) have dovetail matings that need quite a bit of force to slide completely together, and I lock them with a drop of SuperGlue. I never had one come apart, and that includes the 3 of them that are in constant use on the workbench. The ones in the hamshack are more permanent - they are seldom changed. I have roll pins and use them only sometimes. If I use the roll pins, I lock the pins in place with a drop of Superglue. BTW - I just saw evidence that using the 'good' West Mountain crimper is not the entire answer. The crimps this gentleman had made with that tool had distorted the connector barrel and tongue severely such that good contact was not made. When we discussed the problem, I found that he was using the tool improperly. So even the proper tool can produce a bad job if you do not know what a good crimped connection looks like. Unfortunately, West Mountain Radio does not provide any instructions with the tool. 73, Don W3FPR Tom Hammond wrote: I must admit that I have had less than stellar results with the roll pins myself... having a number fall out over time. Fortunately none fell into 'sensitive' electronic areas... they just fall out... I didn't have have all that good luck with Super Glues either... not sure why, but the several times I tried them did not end well, with the connectors STILL coming apart. I think I like the idea of filling the 'roll pin hole' with hot glue. That seems like a much more viable method. I currently use a short length of #12 solid copper wire, stuck thru the hole and then bent (on both ends) around at least two sides of each of the APP connector shells. This method allows for a slight amount of movement between the shells, but it does keep them together and in a manner which allows for complete disassembly if necessary at a later time. It's not terribly 'pretty', but it does work. 73, Tom Hammond N0SS ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] APP roll pins
I've purchased an APP pack or two that instead of having real roll pins (as in a flat piece of metal rolled over on itself, having a bit of spring tension in the process), just a piece of tiny metal tubing. While these slipped in place, they also tended to slip out of place. I'm guessing that this is what many dissatisfied APP users have purchased, instead of getting a pack with real roll pins. Dave G. wrote: The APP kit I bought (some time ago) from PowerWerx contained the cheap crimper, anc 20 sets of 30A APP's including the roll pins... In over three years I have NOT had a roll pin come out!! 73, Mike KW1ND ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
