Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

Come to think about it, I haven't heard mine click and pop in quite some 
time.  I doubt that it's seasonal, but that is an interesting twist.  I 
doubt that my room or the dormant equipment varies over +/- 2°F over any 
given 24 hr period.


73

Bob, K4TAX

On 4/7/2019 1:11 PM, Andy Durbin wrote:

This will only be of interest to a few KPA500 owners  - those who don't think 
loud clicks/ticks/pops are acceptable.

In the message below I reported that I had lost interest in my investigation 
because the click/ticks had stopped.  That message is dated October 2018.   
Late March the ticks came back and now, early April, they are back to the 
annoying level that I experienced in 2018.  What's different?  Room temperature 
and consequently the powered on but not transmitting temperature of the KPA500 
is much lower in the winter months.

Although I lost interest in the investigation I continued to record PA 
temperature, heat sink temperature, and Z bracket temperature for every 
transmission I made.  That's a lot of data but  differences between summer and 
winter operating conditions may be interesting.   I plan to pick a few mid 
winter samples to compare with a few peak summer samples.

Has anyone else who is annoyed by KPA500 click/ticks noticed any correlation 
with room temperature?

73,
Andy, k3wyc



From: ANDY DURBIN
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 6:52 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: KPA500 Clicks & Pops


I found this quite annoying too.  My approach was to try to understand how the 
Z bracket temperature varied relative to the heat sink temperature.  I placed a 
thermistor on the front end of the Z bracket and another on the heat sink fin 
closest to the Z bracket.  I logged the standard PA temperature and these 
additional thermistor temperatures for every transmission I made (still do).   
I established baseline temperature characteristics and planned to use this data 
to see if any mods I made changed the characteristics.


Surprise!  -  When I though I had enough data to move on to the next step in 
the investigation it stopped clicking.


Adding the thermistors only required removal of the front panel and the Z 
bracket screws were no touched.   It continued to click after the thermistors 
were added and then stopped a few weeks later.


The data show the rapid change in temperature is at the PA sensor only.  The 
heat sink and Z bracket change much more slowly and never have a large 
temperature difference.  Their temperatures do cross over though.


One problem with temperature logging is that I had no data, except for my test 
notes , on the clicks themselves.  I had planned to added some inexpensive 
sound detection modules and add this data to the logger.  That's on hold until 
the clicks come back.


It's really nice not to have the amp click continuously on every FT8 
transmission.  I wish I knew what fixed it.


73,

Andy k3wyc
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

Folks, this endless topic has been discussed before in depth on thenlist and is 
available in the archives. In the interest of keeping list volume and SNR 
reasonable, lets end this thread.

In general, please take discussions and arguments about appropriate power 
levels for any mode off list for discussion. 

73, 
Eric
Moderater
elecraft.com
_..._



> On Oct 17, 2018, at 3:13 PM, Wes Stewart  wrote:
> 
> Ed,
> 
> Not picking on you personally either but I fail to understand this attitude 
> that because some digital mode or another can make QSOs with 10 mW on some 
> path, everyone else should run only10 mW.
> 
> I consider my K3S + KPA500 to be a 500W transceiver (with push buttons for 
> selecting bands) and that's the way I run it.  Often, especially when I'm 
> beating myself up on 160, I wish for more power. When some of my DX club 
> buddies tease me about running QRP should I ask them to lower their power so 
> we have parity?
> 
> Wes  N7WS
> 
> ps: When I ran 2-meter EME  30 years ago we actually heard the signals by ear.
> 
> 
>> On 10/17/2018 1:34 PM, Edward R Cole wrote:
>> Bob,
>> 
>> A question about your statement that you run 400w in digital modes (assuming 
>> you mean FT8, etc. and not RTTY).  That seems pretty extreme.
>> 
>> I pretty much ignore HF usage as I am not on HF very much (primarily an 
>> eme'er on 6m+).  But back at the beginnings of psk-31 I built a HB 
>> interface* for my FT-847 and did a bit of 14.070 operating (with a dipole).  
>> I was recommended to not exceeding 25w (or 25% full power).  Everyone seemed 
>> to do quite well on psk-31 with low power and some ran at QRP (<5w).
>> 
>> I do not get why I hear of running high power digital when 10% would 
>> communicate easily.  You may remonstrate me for running 2m-eme at 1500w on 
>> JT-65 but the path loss on 2m-eme is 254 dB+ and contacts are made over a 
>> half-million mile path.  Certainly not encountered by terrestrial HF users.
>> 
>> Not picking on you personally, but you made the statement so figure maybe 
>> would reply.  Just curious.
>> 
>> 73, Ed - KL7UW
>> * that I/F later was used for JT-65 on eme 15 years ago.  Now use my K3 
>> directly connected.
>> 
>> Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 16:59:15 -0500
>> From: Bob McGraw K4TAX 
>> To: "Dauer, Edward" 
>> Cc: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" 
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops
>> Message-ID: 
>> Content-Type: text/plain;   charset=us-ascii
>> 
>> I do run 400 watts or so on digital modes.  Issues are not really noted on 
>> SSB or CW modes.
>> 
>> I've set the Fan Ctr to 2 and 3 and still noted the issue
>> 
>> Was recently showing my K Line to some hams friends. They commented rather 
>> negatively on the point.
>> 
>> Bob, K4TAX
>> 
>> 
>> 73, Ed - KL7UW
>>   http://www.kl7uw.com
>> Dubus-NA Business mail:
>>   dubus...@gmail.com
>> __
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>> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops

[Edward R Cole]

Guess I got a few replies to my comments.  I will try to respond to 
all in this one:


James-w6jhb:  Bob did reply back and was referring to using digital 
on 160m, which is harder to work than upper bands like 20m.  More 
power helps.  I have done some operating on 600m (before it became a 
ham band) and FCC limits 630m operations to 5w EIRP which is a real 
test of ability and equipment.  Yet CW and digital modes are making 
some surprising DX contacts on a band that is not known for 
ionospheric prop (D-layer only).


Wes-N7WS:  Uh, I never mentioned running 10mw.  I did suggest 10% (of 
full power) might be quite adequate on digital.  So that would be 
150w for a KPA1500 or 50w for a KPA500.  Yes, I have heard that some 
are making HF digital contacts at 10mw (or such) but that is a 
personal challenge (as I see it).  Again 160m is a special case with 
limited prop as compared to 20-10m.  I would probably use full power 
if I were on 160m (currently that is 100w from my KXPA100).


Many still use CW on eme but that is on 432 and up these 
days.  6m-eme is 100% digital and 2m-eme is 99%.  I made some of my 
early 2m contacts using CW.


Fred-K6DWG:  Sorry but you are not correct on how JT65, FT8, and 
other WSJT modes work.  Yes, you run the receiver RF bandwidth at 
nominal 2.5-KHz (SSB) width but that is just to make operating with 
various Doppler offsets easier (as you can see all the signals within 
the wider bw.  But the detection bw of JT65 is 4.7 Hz and that is a 
large part of why it is approx 10-dB more sensitive than CW.  S+N/N 
of 4.7 Hz over 50-Hz (apparent detection bw of the human ear/brain) 
does reduce the noise power vs signal.  JT-65 and other of these 
digital modes are FSK with the sw detecting single tones.  The shift 
freq of JT-65 is over a wider range but that does not affect 
detection.  I believe psk-31 is much wider detection bw (often 
referred to as RBW) so it is not near as good for weak signal 
operation.  I understand that more power may be needed to overcome HF 
noise floors that are much higher than VHF+ where eme is done.  Still 
not convinced that one needs QRO for terrestrial path loss.  QRM 
maybe requires it.  I have no local eme QRM.  Pile ups are on the 
receiving end of multiple stations calling me (KL7 is rare on eme).


Bob-K4TAX:  Yeah I get it.  It depends on frequency band as far as 
how well signals reach.  As  I  already stated, I never mentioned 
10mw (Wes thru that into the discussion) but I do think one does not 
need to run the same power as a CW or SSB contact if using a NB 
digital mode.  Of course that varies with band conditions and 
distance worked.  FT8 (in particular) is getting thru when poor band 
conditions prevent CW/SSB from happening.  Using the power necessary 
is a given - just don't see that running (near) max power is 
necessary (all the time which seems to be the HF mentality - 
regardless of mode or conditions).


BTW my 495 KHz 5w EIRP CW signal has been detected about 4,000 miles, 
so its quite possible.  FCC limits 630m ham operation to 5w EIRP 
(which is about what I get running 100w output from my PA and due to 
4% antenna efficiency).


Thanks for bearing with this multi-part reply; figured it would use 
less list bandwidth with this approach.  Probably not worth further 
on-list commentary; reply direct to me if any of you want to continue,




73, Ed - KL7UW
  http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
  dubus...@gmail.com 


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Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops

[Fred Jensen]

That digital modes are all "low power modes" is an unfortunate urban 
legend, Ed.  PSK31 is very narrow and will work well in very narrow RX 
bandwidths.  Noise power, being proportional to bandwidth, will thus be 
less on each end, and lower powers work well.  It's also angle 
modulation and moderately immune to at least Gaussian noise.  JT65, FT8, 
and the other Dr. Joe Taylor modes are "weak signal" not "low power" 
modes.  They operate in roughly a SSB voice channel bandwidth [~3 KHz] 
even though each signal is very narrow.  They will decode at negative 
(S+N)/N ratios in a ~3 KHz channel where there will be many such 
signals.  With today's abysmal conditions, even 1,500 W may result in a 
negative (S+N)/N ratio on the other end.  It's the terrestrial 
equivalent of your lunar path, and no remonstration is required or deserved.


73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 10/17/2018 1:34 PM, Edward R Cole wrote:

Bob,

A question about your statement that you run 400w in digital modes 
(assuming you mean FT8, etc. and not RTTY).  That seems pretty extreme.


I pretty much ignore HF usage as I am not on HF very much (primarily 
an eme'er on 6m+).  But back at the beginnings of psk-31 I built a HB 
interface* for my FT-847 and did a bit of 14.070 operating (with a 
dipole).  I was recommended to not exceeding 25w (or 25% full power).  
Everyone seemed to do quite well on psk-31 with low power and some ran 
at QRP (<5w).


I do not get why I hear of running high power digital when 10% would 
communicate easily.  You may remonstrate me for running 2m-eme at 
1500w on JT-65 but the path loss on 2m-eme is 254 dB+ and contacts are 
made over a half-million mile path.  Certainly not encountered by 
terrestrial HF users.


Not picking on you personally, but you made the statement so figure 
maybe would reply.  Just curious.


73, Ed - KL7UW
* that I/F later was used for JT-65 on eme 15 years ago.  Now use my 
K3 directly connected.


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Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops

[Wes Stewart]

Ed,

Not picking on you personally either but I fail to understand this attitude that 
because some digital mode or another can make QSOs with 10 mW on some path, 
everyone else should run only10 mW.


I consider my K3S + KPA500 to be a 500W transceiver (with push buttons for 
selecting bands) and that's the way I run it.  Often, especially when I'm 
beating myself up on 160, I wish for more power. When some of my DX club buddies 
tease me about running QRP should I ask them to lower their power so we have parity?


Wes  N7WS

ps: When I ran 2-meter EME  30 years ago we actually heard the signals by ear.


On 10/17/2018 1:34 PM, Edward R Cole wrote:

Bob,

A question about your statement that you run 400w in digital modes (assuming 
you mean FT8, etc. and not RTTY).  That seems pretty extreme.


I pretty much ignore HF usage as I am not on HF very much (primarily an eme'er 
on 6m+).  But back at the beginnings of psk-31 I built a HB interface* for my 
FT-847 and did a bit of 14.070 operating (with a dipole).  I was recommended 
to not exceeding 25w (or 25% full power).  Everyone seemed to do quite well on 
psk-31 with low power and some ran at QRP (<5w).


I do not get why I hear of running high power digital when 10% would 
communicate easily.  You may remonstrate me for running 2m-eme at 1500w on 
JT-65 but the path loss on 2m-eme is 254 dB+ and contacts are made over a 
half-million mile path.  Certainly not encountered by terrestrial HF users.


Not picking on you personally, but you made the statement so figure maybe 
would reply.  Just curious.


73, Ed - KL7UW
* that I/F later was used for JT-65 on eme 15 years ago.  Now use my K3 
directly connected.


Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 16:59:15 -0500
From: Bob McGraw K4TAX 
To: "Dauer, Edward" 
Cc: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset=us-ascii

I do run 400 watts or so on digital modes.  Issues are not really noted on SSB 
or CW modes.


I've set the Fan Ctr to 2 and 3 and still noted the issue

Was recently showing my K Line to some hams friends. They commented rather 
negatively on the point.


Bob, K4TAX


73, Ed - KL7UW
  http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
  dubus...@gmail.com
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops

[James Bennett via Elecraft]

Ed,

Haven’t seen a response from him yet, but he may be taking about 160 meters. 
From what I have read, that may be an acceptable thing on that band, given QSB, 
band conditions, and antenna limitations.

Jim / W6JHB

> On Oct 17, 2018, at 1:34 PM, Edward R Cole  wrote:
> 
> Bob,
> 
> A question about your statement that you run 400w in digital modes (assuming 
> you mean FT8, etc. and not RTTY).  That seems pretty extreme.
> 
> I pretty much ignore HF usage as I am not on HF very much (primarily an 
> eme'er on 6m+).  But back at the beginnings of psk-31 I built a HB interface* 
> for my FT-847 and did a bit of 14.070 operating (with a dipole).  I was 
> recommended to not exceeding 25w (or 25% full power).  Everyone seemed to do 
> quite well on psk-31 with low power and some ran at QRP (<5w).
> 
> I do not get why I hear of running high power digital when 10% would 
> communicate easily.  You may remonstrate me for running 2m-eme at 1500w on 
> JT-65 but the path loss on 2m-eme is 254 dB+ and contacts are made over a 
> half-million mile path.  Certainly not encountered by terrestrial HF users.
> 
> Not picking on you personally, but you made the statement so figure maybe 
> would reply.  Just curious.
> 
> 73, Ed - KL7UW
> * that I/F later was used for JT-65 on eme 15 years ago.  Now use my K3 
> directly connected.
> 
> Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 16:59:15 -0500
> From: Bob McGraw K4TAX 
> To: "Dauer, Edward" 
> Cc: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" 
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain;   charset=us-ascii
> 
> I do run 400 watts or so on digital modes.  Issues are not really noted on 
> SSB or CW modes.
> 
> I've set the Fan Ctr to 2 and 3 and still noted the issue
> 
> Was recently showing my K Line to some hams friends. They commented rather 
> negatively on the point.
> 
> Bob, K4TAX
> 
> 
> 73, Ed - KL7UW
>  http://www.kl7uw.com
> Dubus-NA Business mail:
>  dubus...@gmail.com 
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops

[Edward R Cole]

Bob,

A question about your statement that you run 400w in digital modes 
(assuming you mean FT8, etc. and not RTTY).  That seems pretty extreme.


I pretty much ignore HF usage as I am not on HF very much (primarily 
an eme'er on 6m+).  But back at the beginnings of psk-31 I built a HB 
interface* for my FT-847 and did a bit of 14.070 operating (with a 
dipole).  I was recommended to not exceeding 25w (or 25% full 
power).  Everyone seemed to do quite well on psk-31 with low power 
and some ran at QRP (<5w).


I do not get why I hear of running high power digital when 10% would 
communicate easily.  You may remonstrate me for running 2m-eme at 
1500w on JT-65 but the path loss on 2m-eme is 254 dB+ and contacts 
are made over a half-million mile path.  Certainly not encountered by 
terrestrial HF users.


Not picking on you personally, but you made the statement so figure 
maybe would reply.  Just curious.


73, Ed - KL7UW
* that I/F later was used for JT-65 on eme 15 years ago.  Now use my 
K3 directly connected.


Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 16:59:15 -0500
From: Bob McGraw K4TAX 
To: "Dauer, Edward" 
Cc: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset=us-ascii

I do run 400 watts or so on digital modes.  Issues are not really 
noted on SSB or CW modes.


I've set the Fan Ctr to 2 and 3 and still noted the issue

Was recently showing my K Line to some hams friends. They commented 
rather negatively on the point.


Bob, K4TAX


73, Ed - KL7UW
  http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
  dubus...@gmail.com 


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Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops

[Don Wilhelm]

All,

If you can figure out how to keep the relatively thin "Z" panel from 
expanding and contracting as it is heated and cooled, you will have a 
solution to the problem.


It reminds me of my childhood days living with a coal furnace.  The 
furnace had an inner cast iron furnace surrounded by a sheet metal shell 
as the air plenum.
It was comforting on a cold winter's morning to hear that sheet metal 
expanding because that was the 1st indication that warm air was coming.


It was my job to shake down the ashes, put coal in and stoke up the fire 
in the mornings.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 10/16/2018 5:59 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:

I do run 400 watts or so on digital modes.  Issues are not really noted on SSB 
or CW modes.

I've set the Fan Ctr to 2 and 3 and still noted the issue

Was recently showing my K Line to some hams friends. They commented rather 
negatively on the point.

Bob, K4TAX


Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 16, 2018, at 4:52 PM, Dauer, Edward  wrote:


I've not experienced the problem with kit-built S/N 0651.  But then, I have 
never used it on high duty cycle data modes.

Ted, KN1CBR



--

Message: 25
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 14:13:55 -0700
From: Dennis Moore 
To: Elecraft Reflector 
    Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops
Message-ID: <0497f5c1-6e76-75be-53c4-4acf668d9...@mail4life.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

I rarely hear anything from my KPA500-F. Serious question, I wonder if
those with the kit experience more noise than those with factory
assembled units?

Dennis NJ6G



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Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

I do run 400 watts or so on digital modes.  Issues are not really noted on SSB 
or CW modes. 

I've set the Fan Ctr to 2 and 3 and still noted the issue 

Was recently showing my K Line to some hams friends. They commented rather 
negatively on the point.  

Bob, K4TAX


Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 16, 2018, at 4:52 PM, Dauer, Edward  wrote:
> 
> 
> I've not experienced the problem with kit-built S/N 0651.  But then, I have 
> never used it on high duty cycle data modes.
> 
> Ted, KN1CBR
> 
> 
> 
>--
> 
>Message: 25
>Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 14:13:55 -0700
>From: Dennis Moore 
>To: Elecraft Reflector 
>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops
>Message-ID: <0497f5c1-6e76-75be-53c4-4acf668d9...@mail4life.net>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> 
>I rarely hear anything from my KPA500-F. Serious question, I wonder if 
>those with the kit experience more noise than those with factory 
>assembled units?
> 
>Dennis NJ6G
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops

[Jim Brown]

On 10/16/2018 1:56 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
I've tried to determine where the clicks originate without success. 


This is a much discussed issue. Check the archive. Call or email 
Elecraft if you want to know more.


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops

[AB4IQ]

Mine was a kit and does the same thing.  Sort of like Railroad Welded Rail,  in 
the summer it expands and shrinks in the winter.  We had the same issue with #6 
solid copper on the communications lines.  It only does it on the KPA500 when I 
do a lot of RTTY or FT8.  Very seldom on SSB or CW.

ED..AB4IQ

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Dennis Moore
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 4:14 PM
To: Elecraft Reflector 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops

I rarely hear anything from my KPA500-F. Serious question, I wonder if those 
with the kit experience more noise than those with factory assembled units?

Dennis NJ6G


On 10/14/2018 19:52, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
> What is the recommended solution to stopping the clicks and pops from 
> the KPA500 as the amp heats during transmission and cools during 
> receive?  I've seen one that suggested replacing the screws in the Z 
> bracket with 4-40 x 1/4".Any traction to this?
>
> The amp performs absolutely fantastic.  The clicks and pops are more 
> annoying when working high duty cycle modes.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> 73
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
> KPA500 s/n 3519

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops

[KENT TRIMBLE]

Mine was a kit (sn 267) and I've never heard any noises from it whatever.

Kent  K9ZTV



On 10/16/2018 4:13 PM, Dennis Moore wrote:
I wonder if those with the kit experience more noise than those with 
factory assembled units?






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Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops

[Bill Johnson]

I did a FT on the device and never an issue.  Building requires a bit of 
electro mechanical skills that some do not have.  When I read the issues, I 
wonder about how it was built or modified.

73,
Bill
K9YEQ

https://wrj-tech.com/

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Dennis Moore
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 4:14 PM
To: Elecraft Reflector 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops

I rarely hear anything from my KPA500-F. Serious question, I wonder if those 
with the kit experience more noise than those with factory assembled units?

Dennis NJ6G


On 10/14/2018 19:52, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
> What is the recommended solution to stopping the clicks and pops from 
> the KPA500 as the amp heats during transmission and cools during 
> receive?  I've seen one that suggested replacing the screws in the Z 
> bracket with 4-40 x 1/4".    Any traction to this?
>
> The amp performs absolutely fantastic.  The clicks and pops are more 
> annoying when working high duty cycle modes.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> 73
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
> KPA500 s/n 3519

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

Mine is a KPA500-F s/n 3519 thus it is factory assembled.

73

Bob, K4TAX


On 10/16/2018 4:13 PM, Dennis Moore wrote:
I rarely hear anything from my KPA500-F. Serious question, I wonder if 
those with the kit experience more noise than those with factory 
assembled units?


Dennis NJ6G


On 10/14/2018 19:52, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
What is the recommended solution to stopping the clicks and pops from 
the KPA500 as the amp heats during transmission and cools during 
receive?  I've seen one that suggested replacing the screws in the Z 
bracket with 4-40 x 1/4".    Any traction to this?


The amp performs absolutely fantastic.  The clicks and pops are more 
annoying when working high duty cycle modes.


Thanks in advance.

73

Bob, K4TAX

KPA500 s/n 3519 


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Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops

[Dennis Moore]

I rarely hear anything from my KPA500-F. Serious question, I wonder if 
those with the kit experience more noise than those with factory 
assembled units?


Dennis NJ6G


On 10/14/2018 19:52, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
What is the recommended solution to stopping the clicks and pops from 
the KPA500 as the amp heats during transmission and cools during 
receive?  I've seen one that suggested replacing the screws in the Z 
bracket with 4-40 x 1/4".    Any traction to this?


The amp performs absolutely fantastic.  The clicks and pops are more 
annoying when working high duty cycle modes.


Thanks in advance.

73

Bob, K4TAX

KPA500 s/n 3519 


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Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

I've tried to determine where the clicks originate without success.  
I've loosened screws on the top and right side and tightened screws on 
the top and right side.  No difference. Perhaps someone at Elecraft will 
add a comment in this regard.


I did observe that the 5 screws at the center of the top cover are 
longer than the others.   I'm really at a loss as to the somewhat 
annoying Rice Krispies Snap Crackle and Pop.    Still love the amp in 
all other aspects.


73

Bob, K4TAX


On 10/16/2018 8:52 AM, ANDY DURBIN wrote:

I found this quite annoying too.  My approach was to try to understand how the 
Z bracket temperature varied relative to the heat sink temperature.  I placed a 
thermistor on the front end of the Z bracket and another on the heat sink fin 
closest to the Z bracket.  I logged the standard PA temperature and these 
additional thermistor temperatures for every transmission I made (still do).   
I established baseline temperature characteristics and planned to use this data 
to see if any mods I made changed the characteristics.


Surprise!  -  When I though I had enough data to move on to the next step in 
the investigation it stopped clicking.


Adding the thermistors only required removal of the front panel and the Z 
bracket screws were no touched.   It continued to click after the thermistors 
were added and then stopped a few weeks later.


The data show the rapid change in temperature is at the PA sensor only.  The 
heat sink and Z bracket change much more slowly and never have a large 
temperature difference.  Their temperatures do cross over though.


One problem with temperature logging is that I had no data, except for my test 
notes , on the clicks themselves.  I had planned to added some inexpensive 
sound detection modules and add this data to the logger.  That's on hold until 
the clicks come back.


It's really nice not to have the amp click continuously on every FT8 
transmission.  I wish I knew what fixed it.


73,

Andy k3wyc
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops

[Nr4c]

Ear plugs. 

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On Oct 14, 2018, at 10:52 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX  wrote:
> 
> What is the recommended solution to stopping the clicks and pops from the 
> KPA500 as the amp heats during transmission and cools during receive?  I've 
> seen one that suggested replacing the screws in the Z bracket with 4-40 x 
> 1/4".Any traction to this?
> 
> The amp performs absolutely fantastic.  The clicks and pops are more annoying 
> when working high duty cycle modes.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> 73
> 
> Bob, K4TAX
> 
> KPA500 s/n 3519
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 clicks

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

This is normal on the KA500 (and also on the KPA1500) and is due to slightly 
different rates of thermal expansion and contraction of the heatrsink and sheet 
metal connected to it. In general it occurs mostly when the amp is used in 
higher duty cycle operation and will vary slightly from unit to unit.


73,
Eric
/elecraft.com/

On 7/18/2018 8:31 PM, Paul Antos wrote:

I doubt that a phone recording has the proper range to qualify as a test device.

I'll wait for the resident audio guru K9YC to set things a-right on a 
scientific test.

The only time I get clicks on my very early kit built is in a RTTY contest, 
where I already have the fan at level two ... they are few and far between, 
doesn't bother me, and beats the heck out of other screaming banshee amps I 
have put up with.

NS2N
(Ex WB2ABD)
No sign off message

Get Outlook for Android

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 clicks

[Paul Antos]

I doubt that a phone recording has the proper range to qualify as a test device.

I'll wait for the resident audio guru K9YC to set things a-right on a 
scientific test.

The only time I get clicks on my very early kit built is in a RTTY contest, 
where I already have the fan at level two ... they are few and far between, 
doesn't bother me, and beats the heck out of other screaming banshee amps I 
have put up with.

NS2N
(Ex WB2ABD)
No sign off message

Get Outlook for Android

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 clicks and thermal design

[Michael Blake]

My KPA500 clicking has pretty much stopped as well.  The transformer noise has 
also reduced in amplitude over time (about 3 months).

Michael Blake
k9...@mac.com

On Apr 21, 2018, at 03:26 PM, Craig Buck  wrote:

Make sure the transformer is on straight and secured. Mine clicked for a
while but has since stopped.

On Sat, Apr 21, 2018, 1:35 PM ANDY DURBIN  wrote:

I find the "clicks" my KPA500 makes as its temperature changes to be quite
distracting. Part of the problem is that I'm chasing a problem where the
KPA500 changes band spuriously and the thermal clicks sound too much like
the relays re-configuring the LPF.


To what extend does the thermal design require conduction between the PA
heat sink and the case metalwork? Would the thermal management be
compromised if very thin mylar strips were placed between the heat sink and
the case side panel , case rear panel, or Z bracket?


Any other proven techniques for eliminating the thermal
expansion/contraction clicks? (I know the manual says this is normal so no
need to tell me that).


73,

Andy k3wyc
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 clicks and thermal design

[Craig Buck]

Make sure the transformer is on straight and secured.  Mine clicked for a
while but has since stopped.

On Sat, Apr 21, 2018, 1:35 PM ANDY DURBIN  wrote:

> I find the "clicks" my KPA500 makes as its temperature changes to be quite
> distracting.  Part of the problem is that I'm chasing a problem where the
> KPA500 changes band spuriously and the thermal clicks sound too much like
> the relays re-configuring the LPF.
>
>
> To what extend does the thermal design require conduction between the PA
> heat sink and the case metalwork?  Would the thermal management be
> compromised if very thin mylar strips were placed between the heat sink and
> the case side panel , case rear panel, or Z bracket?
>
>
> Any other proven techniques for eliminating the thermal
> expansion/contraction clicks?  (I know the manual says this is normal so no
> need to tell me that).
>
>
> 73,
>
> Andy k3wyc
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks

[Jessie Oberreuter]

 This came up recently w/ the K3 as well, and perhaps a year or two 
back.  It /sounds/ like a tiny relay is clicking in the K3 on t/r 
switching even though it's all solid-state.  Wayne speculated that the 
sound might be coming from relay springs re-balancing slightly in response 
to associated voltage changes on the power rails.  I don't believe it's 
been tested further.  Perhaps you're hearing something similar from the 
KPA500.  -kb7psg



On Mon, 27 Jan 2014, zen...@netspace.net.au wrote:


FWIW, I've noticed these clicks from within my KPA500 too.  I always
assumed they were thermal expansion and contraction of hardware within
the amp.  I ignore them because they have
never been associated with any problem with the function of the amp. 
Besides,  I don't know how you'd begin to try to isolate exactly
which bit of metal in there is doing the clicking to be able to do
anything about it.

73,
John
VK7JB

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

As noted in the current KPA500 manual, this is normal and can happen after the 
heatsink has been heated up. As it cools the different metals in KPA500 case and 
heatsink contract at a different rate, causing the slight ticking that is 
occasionally heard.


73,

Eric
elecraft.com

On 4/2/2014 3:15 PM, Jessie Oberreuter wrote:


 This came up recently w/ the K3 as well, and perhaps a year or two back.  
It /sounds/ like a tiny relay is clicking in the K3 on t/r switching even 
though it's all solid-state.  Wayne speculated that the sound might be coming 
from relay springs re-balancing slightly in response to associated voltage 
changes on the power rails.  I don't believe it's been tested further. Perhaps 
you're hearing something similar from the KPA500.  -kb7psg



On Mon, 27 Jan 2014, zen...@netspace.net.au wrote:


FWIW, I've noticed these clicks from within my KPA500 too.  I always
assumed they were thermal expansion and contraction of hardware within
the amp.  I ignore them because they have
never been associated with any problem with the function of the amp.
Besides,  I don't know how you'd begin to try to isolate exactly
which bit of metal in there is doing the clicking to be able to do
anything about it.

73,
John
VK7JB

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks

[Richard]

My KPA500 s/n 107 produces clicks from time to time, even in STBY or on RX.
Glad I now know why - the Z bracket! Nothing to worry about!

73
Richard - HB9ANM
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks

[Steve AI9T]

Thanks for all the comments on the KPA500 Clicks. Looks like I'm not the 
only one that has noticed it. I guess I won't worry about it.
I have had the AMP for a few months now and have been very satisfied 
with it so far.


Thanks again!

--
73

Steve AI9T

http://www.ai9t.com

AI9T DX Cluster

Version 4 AI9T   Telnet: dxc.ai9t.com port 7300
Version 6 AI9T-2 Telnet: dxc.ai9t.com port 7373 (CW + Skimmer)


On 1/26/2014 3:03 PM, Steve AI9T wrote:
During a couple recent RTTY contest I have noticed that my KPA500 is 
making a noise. It kind of sounds like a relay clicking in and out. 
When I first noticed it I thought it was a fan relay or something to 
do with the fan. But after hearing this longer it seems to be related 
to the temp.  It clicks in an out around the temps of 62C and 56C. It 
kind or reminds me of an old radiator warming up and cooling off. I 
took the cover off yesterday and checked the nut that holds the  
transformer in place. I thought maybe that spring washer might be a 
little loose but it wasn't.


Anyone else ever notice this? Hopefully it is not a serious problem.

Thanks



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Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks

[Dave Perry]

Steve,

My KPA500 also has the clicks and pops as it heats up and expands.  As I
recall, Elecraft offers a fix for this.  The fix involves replacing the
metal screws that fasten the heat sink to the chassis.  They had to go with
a larger screw to obtain a tighter hold on the bracket for the heat sink.  I
assume this has been fixed in newer models.  My serial number is in the low
200s.  I have never bothered to install this fix, but the clicks do get
annoying at times.  Is this fix still available?  I would think that you can
search the archives for a discussion on this topic right after the amp came
out.

73,

Dave, N4QS

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Steve AI9T
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 1:05 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks

Thanks for all the comments on the KPA500 Clicks. Looks like I'm not the
only one that has noticed it. I guess I won't worry about it.
I have had the AMP for a few months now and have been very satisfied with it
so far.

Thanks again!

--
73

Steve AI9T

http://www.ai9t.com

AI9T DX Cluster

Version 4 AI9T   Telnet: dxc.ai9t.com port 7300
Version 6 AI9T-2 Telnet: dxc.ai9t.com port 7373 (CW + Skimmer)


On 1/26/2014 3:03 PM, Steve AI9T wrote:
 During a couple recent RTTY contest I have noticed that my KPA500 is 
 making a noise. It kind of sounds like a relay clicking in and out.
 When I first noticed it I thought it was a fan relay or something to 
 do with the fan. But after hearing this longer it seems to be related 
 to the temp.  It clicks in an out around the temps of 62C and 56C. It 
 kind or reminds me of an old radiator warming up and cooling off. I 
 took the cover off yesterday and checked the nut that holds the 
 transformer in place. I thought maybe that spring washer might be a 
 little loose but it wasn't.

 Anyone else ever notice this? Hopefully it is not a serious problem.

 Thanks


__
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks

[Steve AI9T]

Hi Dave

I didn't know that Elecraft had a fix for this. I will send Tech Support 
an email and ask them about it. My Amp is fairly new. I built the kit 
last May. The serial number is 1469.


--
73

Steve AI9T

http://www.ai9t.com

AI9T DX Cluster

Version 4 AI9T   Telnet: dxc.ai9t.com port 7300
Version 6 AI9T-2 Telnet: dxc.ai9t.com port 7373 (CW + Skimmer)


On 1/27/2014 3:27 PM, Dave Perry wrote:

Steve,

My KPA500 also has the clicks and pops as it heats up and expands.  As I
recall, Elecraft offers a fix for this.  The fix involves replacing the
metal screws that fasten the heat sink to the chassis.  They had to go with
a larger screw to obtain a tighter hold on the bracket for the heat sink.  I
assume this has been fixed in newer models.  My serial number is in the low
200s.  I have never bothered to install this fix, but the clicks do get
annoying at times.  Is this fix still available?  I would think that you can
search the archives for a discussion on this topic right after the amp came
out.

73,

Dave, N4QS

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Steve AI9T
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 1:05 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks

Thanks for all the comments on the KPA500 Clicks. Looks like I'm not the
only one that has noticed it. I guess I won't worry about it.
I have had the AMP for a few months now and have been very satisfied with it
so far.

Thanks again!

--
73

Steve AI9T

http://www.ai9t.com

AI9T DX Cluster

Version 4 AI9T   Telnet: dxc.ai9t.com port 7300
Version 6 AI9T-2 Telnet: dxc.ai9t.com port 7373 (CW + Skimmer)


On 1/26/2014 3:03 PM, Steve AI9T wrote:

During a couple recent RTTY contest I have noticed that my KPA500 is
making a noise. It kind of sounds like a relay clicking in and out.
When I first noticed it I thought it was a fan relay or something to
do with the fan. But after hearing this longer it seems to be related
to the temp.  It clicks in an out around the temps of 62C and 56C. It
kind or reminds me of an old radiator warming up and cooling off. I
took the cover off yesterday and checked the nut that holds the
transformer in place. I thought maybe that spring washer might be a
little loose but it wasn't.

Anyone else ever notice this? Hopefully it is not a serious problem.

Thanks


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Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks

[AG0N-3055]

On Mon, 27 Jan 2014 14:27:59 -0600, Dave Perry wrote:

 Steve,
 
 My KPA500 also has the clicks and pops as it heats up and expands.

I'm rather curious about this clicking people are talking about.  I have
SN 1255 and have heard none of what is being described.  I've purposely
heated it from cool to in the 70s where the fan kicks into warp speed.
At first I was ready to jump in with my clicking experience, but it
was true clicking, not ticking that others seem to be describing.

My clicking experience was rather short lived and I attributed it to a
poor RF situation with my six meter antenna.  For a short time, I would
sometimes get a relay click and rather high VSWR indicated when on six.
I replaced a few jumper cables and all was well again, including the
output of the KPA.  It got even better when I got that Mother's Fine
Junque tuner out of the circuit and installed the KAP.  It's nice to see
just about the same reflected in both units now on the lower bands.
Before, I could get the tuner to show zero reflected, but the amp
didn't.  Sometimes I would slightly off-tune the tuner to get the amp
down better.  Don't get me wrong.  All readings were under 1.5:1.

Anyway, I sure haven't heard any heatsink ticking at all, even when it
was brand new.

Just another person's experience for reference.

Gary - AG0N
-- 
http://ag0n.net
3055: http://ag0n.net/irlp/3055
NodeOp Help Page: http://ag0n.net/irlp
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks

[Sebastian, W4AS]

Please post here if Elecraft confirms they have a fix for this.

73 de Sebastian, W4AS



On Jan 27, 2014, at 3:54 PM, Steve AI9T st...@ai9t.com wrote:

 Hi Dave
 
 I didn't know that Elecraft had a fix for this. I will send Tech Support an 
 email and ask them about it. My Amp is fairly new. I built the kit last May. 
 The serial number is 1469.
 
 -- 
 73
 
 Steve AI9T
 
 http://www.ai9t.com
 
 AI9T DX Cluster
 
 Version 4 AI9T   Telnet: dxc.ai9t.com port 7300
 Version 6 AI9T-2 Telnet: dxc.ai9t.com port 7373 (CW + Skimmer)
 
 
 On 1/27/2014 3:27 PM, Dave Perry wrote:
 Steve,
 
 My KPA500 also has the clicks and pops as it heats up and expands.  As I
 recall, Elecraft offers a fix for this.  The fix involves replacing the
 metal screws that fasten the heat sink to the chassis.  They had to go with
 a larger screw to obtain a tighter hold on the bracket for the heat sink.  I
 assume this has been fixed in newer models.  My serial number is in the low
 200s.  I have never bothered to install this fix, but the clicks do get
 annoying at times.  Is this fix still available?  I would think that you can
 search the archives for a discussion on this topic right after the amp came
 out.
 
 73,
 
 Dave, N4QS
 
 -Original Message-
 From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
 [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Steve AI9T
 Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 1:05 PM
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks
 
 Thanks for all the comments on the KPA500 Clicks. Looks like I'm not the
 only one that has noticed it. I guess I won't worry about it.
 I have had the AMP for a few months now and have been very satisfied with it
 so far.
 
 Thanks again!
 
 --
 73
 
 Steve AI9T
 
 http://www.ai9t.com
 
 AI9T DX Cluster
 
 Version 4 AI9T   Telnet: dxc.ai9t.com port 7300
 Version 6 AI9T-2 Telnet: dxc.ai9t.com port 7373 (CW + Skimmer)
 
 
 On 1/26/2014 3:03 PM, Steve AI9T wrote:
 During a couple recent RTTY contest I have noticed that my KPA500 is
 making a noise. It kind of sounds like a relay clicking in and out.
 When I first noticed it I thought it was a fan relay or something to
 do with the fan. But after hearing this longer it seems to be related
 to the temp.  It clicks in an out around the temps of 62C and 56C. It
 kind or reminds me of an old radiator warming up and cooling off. I
 took the cover off yesterday and checked the nut that holds the
 transformer in place. I thought maybe that spring washer might be a
 little loose but it wasn't.
 
 Anyone else ever notice this? Hopefully it is not a serious problem.
 
 Thanks

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks

[Sebastian, W4AS]

I sent an email to Elecraft support; an errata to the owner’s manual now 
specifically mentions this issue:

During heavy use, you may hear audible clicking sounds, particularly as the 
amplifier components cool down. This is normal. It does not indicate that the 
amplifier is being overly stressed.”

The errata can be found here: http://www.elecraft.com/manual/E740150E KPA500 
Owner's Manual Errata C4-2.pdf

73 de Sebastian, W4AS



On Jan 27, 2014, at 3:54 PM, Steve AI9T st...@ai9t.com wrote:

 Hi Dave
 
 I didn't know that Elecraft had a fix for this. I will send Tech Support an 
 email and ask them about it. My Amp is fairly new. I built the kit last May. 
 The serial number is 1469.
 
 -- 
 73
 
 Steve AI9T
 
 http://www.ai9t.com
 
 AI9T DX Cluster
 
 Version 4 AI9T   Telnet: dxc.ai9t.com port 7300
 Version 6 AI9T-2 Telnet: dxc.ai9t.com port 7373 (CW + Skimmer)
 
 
 On 1/27/2014 3:27 PM, Dave Perry wrote:
 Steve,
 
 My KPA500 also has the clicks and pops as it heats up and expands.  As I
 recall, Elecraft offers a fix for this.  The fix involves replacing the
 metal screws that fasten the heat sink to the chassis.  They had to go with
 a larger screw to obtain a tighter hold on the bracket for the heat sink.  I
 assume this has been fixed in newer models.  My serial number is in the low
 200s.  I have never bothered to install this fix, but the clicks do get
 annoying at times.  Is this fix still available?  I would think that you can
 search the archives for a discussion on this topic right after the amp came
 out.
 
 73,
 
 Dave, N4QS
 
 -Original Message-
 From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
 [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Steve AI9T
 Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 1:05 PM
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks
 
 Thanks for all the comments on the KPA500 Clicks. Looks like I'm not the
 only one that has noticed it. I guess I won't worry about it.
 I have had the AMP for a few months now and have been very satisfied with it
 so far.
 
 Thanks again!
 
 --
 73
 
 Steve AI9T
 
 http://www.ai9t.com
 
 AI9T DX Cluster
 
 Version 4 AI9T   Telnet: dxc.ai9t.com port 7300
 Version 6 AI9T-2 Telnet: dxc.ai9t.com port 7373 (CW + Skimmer)
 
 
 On 1/26/2014 3:03 PM, Steve AI9T wrote:
 During a couple recent RTTY contest I have noticed that my KPA500 is
 making a noise. It kind of sounds like a relay clicking in and out.
 When I first noticed it I thought it was a fan relay or something to
 do with the fan. But after hearing this longer it seems to be related
 to the temp.  It clicks in an out around the temps of 62C and 56C. It
 kind or reminds me of an old radiator warming up and cooling off. I
 took the cover off yesterday and checked the nut that holds the
 transformer in place. I thought maybe that spring washer might be a
 little loose but it wasn't.
 
 Anyone else ever notice this? Hopefully it is not a serious problem.
 
 Thanks

__
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks

[Sebastian, W4AS]

I have noticed the same clicks with mine.  I run mostly meteor scatter on 6 
meters, which is somewhat similar to RTTY - long transmit times with a high 
average output power.

After emailing Elecraft support on May 6th of last year concerning a failure of 
my KAT500 tuner (which apparently had nothing to do with the amp’s noise), I 
was told this was due to rapid expansion and contraction of the heat sink, and 
even though it sounded like a relay, it was not necessarily coming from a 
relay.  What I found strange was that this noise didn’t occur until the amp was 
several months old.  I was offered the option to ship back the KPA500 in order 
to track down the noise, and I did so.

After a few days, I received a telephone call from Elecraft with their analysis 
of the noise.  It was their belief that indeed the noise was coming from rapid 
expansion/contraction of a metal piece in the amp; specifically what is known 
as the Z-bracket.  At the time I was told that a few other customers had 
experienced the same issue, although none were in the US and mine was the first 
they had the opportunity to look at.  The Z-bracket was replaced with one of a 
different metal composition, and I was told that several tests were run on the 
amp and there were no other issues.  I received the amp back and did not 
experience the clicking noise at first.

A few weeks later, using the amp in the same manner I had before, the clicking 
noise came back.  Once again I contacted Elecraft support.  Their response was 
the same, the rapid expansion and contraction of the Z-bracket was what I was 
hearing, and there were now several KPA500s which exhibited the same clicking 
noise, but their conclusion was there was no damage caused by this.  In 
addition, there were no faults in the fault log.

I wonder how many others have experienced the same clicking noise, and if the 
issue has been solved.  While I accept their analysis, I still find it strange 
that if the amp is on, yet I haven’t transmitted for several minutes, I will 
still hear an occasional click.


73 de Sebastian, W4AS



On Jan 26, 2014, at 3:03 PM, Steve AI9T st...@ai9t.com wrote:

 During a couple recent RTTY contest I have noticed that my KPA500 is making a 
 noise. It kind of sounds like a relay clicking in and out. When I first 
 noticed it I thought it was a fan relay or something to do with the fan. But 
 after hearing this longer it seems to be related to the temp.  It clicks in 
 an out around the temps of 62C and 56C. It kind or reminds me of an old 
 radiator warming up and cooling off. I took the cover off yesterday and 
 checked the nut that holds the  transformer in place. I thought maybe that 
 spring washer might be a little loose but it wasn't.
 
 Anyone else ever notice this? Hopefully it is not a serious problem.
 
 Thanks
 
 -- 
 73
 
 Steve AI9T

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks

[Stewart]

Heard it today for the first time. I find it quite soothing, but would like to 
know more about it...

:-)

73
Stewart G3RXQ
On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 18:16:52 -0500, Sebastian, W4AS wrote:
 I have noticed the same clicks with mine.  I run mostly meteor scatter on 6 
meters, which is somewhat similar to RTTY - long transmit times with a high 
average output power.

 After emailing Elecraft support on May 6th of last year concerning a failure 
of my KAT500 tuner (which apparently had nothing to do with the amp's noise), I 
was told this was due to rapid expansion and contraction of the heat sink, and 
even though it sounded like a relay, it was not necessarily coming from a 
relay. 
 What I found strange was that this noise didn't occur until the amp was 
several 
months old.  I was offered the option to ship back the KPA500 in order to track 
down the noise, and I did so.

 After a few days, I received a telephone call from Elecraft with their 
analysis of the noise.  It was their belief that indeed the noise was coming 
from rapid expansion/contraction of a metal piece in the amp; specifically what 
is known as the Z-bracket.  At the time I was told that a few other customers 
had experienced the same issue, although none were in the US and mine was the 
first they had the opportunity to look at.  The Z-bracket was replaced with one 
of a different metal composition, and I was told that several tests were run on 
the amp and there were no other issues.  I received the amp back and did not 
experience the clicking noise at first.

 A few weeks later, using the amp in the same manner I had before, the 
 clicking 
noise came back.  Once again I contacted Elecraft support.  Their response was 
the same, the rapid expansion and contraction of the Z-bracket was what I was 
hearing, and there were now several KPA500s which exhibited the same clicking 
noise, but their conclusion was there was no damage caused by this.  In 
addition, there were no faults in the fault log.

 I wonder how many others have experienced the same clicking noise, and if the 
issue has been solved.  While I accept their analysis, I still find it strange 
that if the amp is on, yet I haven't transmitted for several minutes, I will 
still hear an occasional click.


 73 de Sebastian, W4AS


 On Jan 26, 2014, at 3:03 PM, Steve AI9T st...@ai9t.com wrote:

 During a couple recent RTTY contest I have noticed that my KPA500 is making 
 a 
noise. It kind of sounds like a relay clicking in and out. When I first noticed 
it I thought it was a fan relay or something to do with the fan. But after 
hearing this longer it seems to be related to the temp.  It clicks in an out 
around the temps of 62C and 56C. It kind or reminds me of an old radiator 
warming up and cooling off. I took the cover off yesterday and checked the nut 
that holds the  transformer in place. I thought maybe that spring washer might 
be a little loose but it wasn't.

 Anyone else ever notice this? Hopefully it is not a serious problem.

 Thanks

 --
 73

 Steve AI9T

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks

[Cady, Fred]

Mine does it too.
Fred KE7X

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Stewart
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 4:25 PM
To: Sebastian, W4AS; Elecraft
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks

Heard it today for the first time. I find it quite soothing, but would like to 
know more about it...

:-)

73
Stewart G3RXQ
On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 18:16:52 -0500, Sebastian, W4AS wrote:
 I have noticed the same clicks with mine.  I run mostly meteor scatter 
 on 6
meters, which is somewhat similar to RTTY - long transmit times with a high 
average output power.

 After emailing Elecraft support on May 6th of last year concerning a 
 failure
of my KAT500 tuner (which apparently had nothing to do with the amp's noise), I 
was told this was due to rapid expansion and contraction of the heat sink, and 
even though it sounded like a relay, it was not necessarily coming from a 
relay. 
 What I found strange was that this noise didn't occur until the amp was 
several months old.  I was offered the option to ship back the KPA500 in order 
to track down the noise, and I did so.

 After a few days, I received a telephone call from Elecraft with their
analysis of the noise.  It was their belief that indeed the noise was coming 
from rapid expansion/contraction of a metal piece in the amp; specifically what 
is known as the Z-bracket.  At the time I was told that a few other customers 
had experienced the same issue, although none were in the US and mine was the 
first they had the opportunity to look at.  The Z-bracket was replaced with one 
of a different metal composition, and I was told that several tests were run on 
the amp and there were no other issues.  I received the amp back and did not 
experience the clicking noise at first.

 A few weeks later, using the amp in the same manner I had before, the 
 clicking
noise came back.  Once again I contacted Elecraft support.  Their response was 
the same, the rapid expansion and contraction of the Z-bracket was what I was 
hearing, and there were now several KPA500s which exhibited the same clicking 
noise, but their conclusion was there was no damage caused by this.  In 
addition, there were no faults in the fault log.

 I wonder how many others have experienced the same clicking noise, and 
 if the
issue has been solved.  While I accept their analysis, I still find it strange 
that if the amp is on, yet I haven't transmitted for several minutes, I will 
still hear an occasional click.


 73 de Sebastian, W4AS


 On Jan 26, 2014, at 3:03 PM, Steve AI9T st...@ai9t.com wrote:

 During a couple recent RTTY contest I have noticed that my KPA500 is making 
 a 
noise. It kind of sounds like a relay clicking in and out. When I first noticed 
it I thought it was a fan relay or something to do with the fan. But after 
hearing this longer it seems to be related to the temp.  It clicks in an out 
around the temps of 62C and 56C. It kind or reminds me of an old radiator 
warming up and cooling off. I took the cover off yesterday and checked the nut 
that holds the  transformer in place. I thought maybe that spring washer might 
be a little loose but it wasn't.

 Anyone else ever notice this? Hopefully it is not a serious problem.

 Thanks

 --
 73

 Steve AI9T

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks

[Fred Jensen]

Finally!  An advantage to being nearly deaf ... mine doesn't.  At least, 
if I can't hear it, it isn't there, that's my story and I'm sticking to 
it. :-)  Since I use headphones 100% of the time, I doubt I'd hear it 
even if I could hear.


FT5ZM is S9 [i.e. -73dBm, I calibrated my K3 with my service monitor] on 
14023 here in Auburn CA [No Cal] right now.  Pileup is only about 30KHz 
wide.  Strangely, it's about that wide, although a bit sparser, when 
he's transmitting too. :-)  I understand they're running Elecraft gear, 
or at least a lot of it.


Since Amsterdam Is. is reasonably close to our antipode, I figured I'd 
likely hear all the Up Cops but never them.  I'm really surprised.


73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2014 Cal QSO Party 4-5 Oct 2014
- www.cqp.org


On 1/26/2014 4:13 PM, Cady, Fred wrote:

Mine does it too.
Fred KE7X



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Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks

[Bruce Beford]

I seem to recall this was reported some time ago. IIRC, for that particular
op, it ended up being slightly loosened hardware on the main heat sink assy.
I would check all hardware (internally and externally) and see if anything
has loosened up, through thermal cycling.

Bruce, N1RX

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks

[Don Wilhelm]

I have clicks in my house from similar thermal expansion and 
contraction.  It is most noticeable during the Winter season.  The 
KPA500 is similar, and it is not really a problem, just the consequence 
of things heating and then cooling.


I would guess that the clicks could be eliminated by adding fiber 
washers under the screws, but then the fiber washers would also expand 
and contract resulting in loose fastening hardware.  So my bottom line, 
I would rather hear the clicks than be exposed to the possibility of 
loose hardware.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/26/2014 6:16 PM, Sebastian, W4AS wrote:

I have noticed the same clicks with mine.  I run mostly meteor scatter on 6 
meters, which is somewhat similar to RTTY - long transmit times with a high 
average output power.

After emailing Elecraft support on May 6th of last year concerning a failure of 
my KAT500 tuner (which apparently had nothing to do with the amp’s noise), I 
was told this was due to rapid expansion and contraction of the heat sink, and 
even though it sounded like a relay, it was not necessarily coming from a 
relay.  What I found strange was that this noise didn’t occur until the amp was 
several months old.  I was offered the option to ship back the KPA500 in order 
to track down the noise, and I did so.

After a few days, I received a telephone call from Elecraft with their analysis 
of the noise.  It was their belief that indeed the noise was coming from rapid 
expansion/contraction of a metal piece in the amp; specifically what is known 
as the Z-bracket.  At the time I was told that a few other customers had 
experienced the same issue, although none were in the US and mine was the first 
they had the opportunity to look at.  The Z-bracket was replaced with one of a 
different metal composition, and I was told that several tests were run on the 
amp and there were no other issues.  I received the amp back and did not 
experience the clicking noise at first.

A few weeks later, using the amp in the same manner I had before, the clicking 
noise came back.  Once again I contacted Elecraft support.  Their response was 
the same, the rapid expansion and contraction of the Z-bracket was what I was 
hearing, and there were now several KPA500s which exhibited the same clicking 
noise, but their conclusion was there was no damage caused by this.  In 
addition, there were no faults in the fault log.

I wonder how many others have experienced the same clicking noise, and if the 
issue has been solved.  While I accept their analysis, I still find it strange 
that if the amp is on, yet I haven’t transmitted for several minutes, I will 
still hear an occasional click.


73 de Sebastian, W4AS



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Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks

[Ken Chandler]

I have a very early KPA500, serial in low 200's.
I have a quiet outside shack and 
I've heard the Clicks since day 1.
I've always thought these were part of the amps normal operating noise 
environment.
If fact, I tend to notice more if I don't hear the clicks.
The description given - The passage of hot water through cold piping in the 
heating system at first switch-on in early mornings is spot on . A soothing 
click click click...
The click is an old friend ! and let's me know that's all's running well.

Ken.. G0ORH - K2, K3, P3, KAT500, KPA500

Sent from my iPad


 On 26 Jan 2014, at 23:25, Stewart stew...@twinwood.me wrote:
 
 Heard it today for the first time. I find it quite soothing, but would like 
 to 
 know more about it...
 
 :-)
 
 73
 Stewart G3RXQ
 On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 18:16:52 -0500, Sebastian, W4AS wrote:
 I have noticed the same clicks with mine.  I run mostly meteor scatter on 6
 meters, which is somewhat similar to RTTY - long transmit times with a high 
 average output power.
 
 After emailing Elecraft support on May 6th of last year concerning a failure
 of my KAT500 tuner (which apparently had nothing to do with the amp's noise), 
 I 
 was told this was due to rapid expansion and contraction of the heat sink, 
 and 
 even though it sounded like a relay, it was not necessarily coming from a 
 relay. 
 What I found strange was that this noise didn't occur until the amp was 
 several 
 months old.  I was offered the option to ship back the KPA500 in order to 
 track 
 down the noise, and I did so.
 
 After a few days, I received a telephone call from Elecraft with their
 analysis of the noise.  It was their belief that indeed the noise was coming 
 from rapid expansion/contraction of a metal piece in the amp; specifically 
 what 
 is known as the Z-bracket.  At the time I was told that a few other customers 
 had experienced the same issue, although none were in the US and mine was the 
 first they had the opportunity to look at.  The Z-bracket was replaced with 
 one 
 of a different metal composition, and I was told that several tests were run 
 on 
 the amp and there were no other issues.  I received the amp back and did not 
 experience the clicking noise at first.
 
 A few weeks later, using the amp in the same manner I had before, the 
 clicking
 noise came back.  Once again I contacted Elecraft support.  Their response 
 was 
 the same, the rapid expansion and contraction of the Z-bracket was what I was 
 hearing, and there were now several KPA500s which exhibited the same clicking 
 noise, but their conclusion was there was no damage caused by this.  In 
 addition, there were no faults in the fault log.
 
 I wonder how many others have experienced the same clicking noise, and if the
 issue has been solved.  While I accept their analysis, I still find it 
 strange 
 that if the amp is on, yet I haven't transmitted for several minutes, I will 
 still hear an occasional click.
 
 
 73 de Sebastian, W4AS
 
 
 On Jan 26, 2014, at 3:03 PM, Steve AI9T st...@ai9t.com wrote:
 
 During a couple recent RTTY contest I have noticed that my KPA500 is making 
 a
 noise. It kind of sounds like a relay clicking in and out. When I first 
 noticed 
 it I thought it was a fan relay or something to do with the fan. But after 
 hearing this longer it seems to be related to the temp.  It clicks in an out 
 around the temps of 62C and 56C. It kind or reminds me of an old radiator 
 warming up and cooling off. I took the cover off yesterday and checked the 
 nut 
 that holds the  transformer in place. I thought maybe that spring washer 
 might 
 be a little loose but it wasn't.
 
 Anyone else ever notice this? Hopefully it is not a serious problem.
 
 Thanks
 
 --
 73
 
 Steve AI9T
 
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