Re: [Elecraft] Recommended filters for Diversity Receive?

[Bill]

Me too.

 

Bill

 

From: Gary [mailto:vk1zzg...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 6:05 PM
To: Guy Olinger K2AV <k2av@gmail.com>; Bill <k9...@live.com>
Cc: Elecraft Reflector <Elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Recommended filters for Diversity Receive?

 

I use width/shift for cw, hi/lo cut for ssb.
Gary

  _  

From: Guy Olinger K2AV <mailto:k2av@gmail.com> 
Sent: ‎3/‎09/‎2016 9:01 AM
To: Bill <mailto:k9...@live.com> 
Cc: Elecraft Reflector <mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net> 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Recommended filters for Diversity Receive?

On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 6:10 PM, Bill <k9...@live.com <mailto:k9...@live.com> > 
wrote:

> I use two 8 pole at 1.8Khz with the DSP set for 2.1.  I like the way it
> sounds and works.
> Bill
> K9YEQ
>

That's pretty interesting if you actually have the filters defined in the
K3/K3s as 1.8 kHz. Because what will happen when you set front panel WIDTH
control (the DSP width) to 2.1 is that the K3 will engage filters defined
as 2.1, or the next wider set of filters and will NOT be using the 1.8's.

However if you deliberately define those 1.8 filters as 2.1 in the filter
setup, then you will basically be hearing the selectivity of the two 1.8
roofers when your WIDTH control is at 2.1.

I have my 8 pole 1.8 roofers defined as 1.8. Can't stand them for casual
SSB & yak fests, but they are cat's meow for SSB contests. I have to ride
the shift control all the time for intelligibility, but that's better than
not being able to understand because the crud is terrible above or below.
If crud is terrible above AND below, some part of it is going to be IN the
bandpass and I have to give up and move.

73, Guy K2AV
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Re: [Elecraft] Recommended filters for Diversity Receive?

[Bill]

Exactly what I do and I learned this about 5-6 years ago and left it and 
enjoyed it.  I don’t do contests, but do experience splatter, etc., on 75 
meters night time ragchews.

Bill

 

From: Gary [mailto:vk1zzg...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 6:03 PM
To: Bill <k9...@live.com>; Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Recommended filters for Diversity Receive?

 

I rarely use bw above 1.8 on ssb with adjustment on Hi/Lo cut set accordingly. 
Audio on Rx is very good and also using Yamaha CM500 headset.
To "my" ears, this is "nice" to listen to and I have been using these settings 
for years on my K3.
To each his own as it's said often.
Gary

  _  

From: Bill <mailto:k9...@live.com> 
Sent: ‎3/‎09/‎2016 8:12 AM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net <mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net> 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Recommended filters for Diversity Receive?

I use two 8 pole at 1.8Khz with the DSP set for 2.1.  I like the way it
sounds and works.
Bill
K9YEQ

-Original Message-


John W2ID:

You do realize that these are roofing filters and that operating bw is set
by the DSP?  Of course if you are operating in a dense high signal
environment (lots of QRM on adjacent freq) then having a roofing filter that
matches your operating bw is helpful.

I have both main and sub Rx but only use a duplicate of my SSB filter
(2.8-KHz 8-pole) in my sub receiver.  I initially bought a 13-KHz filter for
the sub-Rx not realizing it was not going to be used for diversity on FM so
I sold it soon after purchase.  I have 13-KHz because I use my K3/10 with
VHF/UHF transverters operating FM.  I do no AM but can use that filter for
AM.  I also bought a 400-Hz filter thinking it would help receiving CW, and
it does (almost too good). 
But having more noise suppression in the narrower bw does help weak CW copy
(since I only use CW for eme).

Adding more filters to the sub-Rx is not as difficult as to the main-Rx.
The sub-Rx has to be removed to add/remove or change filters in the main-Rx.
So try to get the arrangement in the main-Rx before installing the sub-Rx.

But for casual CW listening I usually dial DSP bw to 1.0 KHz for easier
listening.

I only run diversity mode for running 2m eme using digital mode of JT65b
using MAP65 sw which enables dual receive of two receivers.

But like the KX2,  both K3 and K3s do not provide IQ interface, so I tap off
the 1st IF of both receivers to go to two SDR which are phase-locked in
frequency so that diversity info is preserved at the soundcard.  Because I
tap off the 8.2 MHz IF's the signal does not go thru the roofing filters or
the DSP in the K3.  The K3 merely acts as a tunable down converter from
28-MHz which what my transverters input at.

I know this has little to offer in your decision on filters to install.  I
kept it simple (one SSB filter in my  sub-Rx).


73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
 "Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
 dubus...@gmail.com <mailto:dubus...@gmail.com> 

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Re: [Elecraft] Recommended filters for Diversity Receive?

[Gary]

I use width/shift for cw, hi/lo cut for ssb.
Gary

-Original Message-
From: "Guy Olinger K2AV" <k2av@gmail.com>
Sent: ‎3/‎09/‎2016 9:01 AM
To: "Bill" <k9...@live.com>
Cc: "Elecraft Reflector" <Elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Recommended filters for Diversity Receive?

On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 6:10 PM, Bill <k9...@live.com> wrote:

> I use two 8 pole at 1.8Khz with the DSP set for 2.1.  I like the way it
> sounds and works.
> Bill
> K9YEQ
>

That's pretty interesting if you actually have the filters defined in the
K3/K3s as 1.8 kHz. Because what will happen when you set front panel WIDTH
control (the DSP width) to 2.1 is that the K3 will engage filters defined
as 2.1, or the next wider set of filters and will NOT be using the 1.8's.

However if you deliberately define those 1.8 filters as 2.1 in the filter
setup, then you will basically be hearing the selectivity of the two 1.8
roofers when your WIDTH control is at 2.1.

I have my 8 pole 1.8 roofers defined as 1.8. Can't stand them for casual
SSB & yak fests, but they are cat's meow for SSB contests. I have to ride
the shift control all the time for intelligibility, but that's better than
not being able to understand because the crud is terrible above or below.
If crud is terrible above AND below, some part of it is going to be IN the
bandpass and I have to give up and move.

73, Guy K2AV
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Re: [Elecraft] Recommended filters for Diversity Receive?

[Gary]

I rarely use bw above 1.8 on ssb with adjustment on Hi/Lo cut set accordingly. 
Audio on Rx is very good and also using Yamaha CM500 headset.
To "my" ears, this is "nice" to listen to and I have been using these settings 
for years on my K3.
To each his own as it's said often.
Gary

-Original Message-
From: "Bill" <k9...@live.com>
Sent: ‎3/‎09/‎2016 8:12 AM
To: "Elecraft@mailman.qth.net" <Elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Recommended filters for Diversity Receive?

I use two 8 pole at 1.8Khz with the DSP set for 2.1.  I like the way it
sounds and works.
Bill
K9YEQ

-Original Message-


John W2ID:

You do realize that these are roofing filters and that operating bw is set
by the DSP?  Of course if you are operating in a dense high signal
environment (lots of QRM on adjacent freq) then having a roofing filter that
matches your operating bw is helpful.

I have both main and sub Rx but only use a duplicate of my SSB filter
(2.8-KHz 8-pole) in my sub receiver.  I initially bought a 13-KHz filter for
the sub-Rx not realizing it was not going to be used for diversity on FM so
I sold it soon after purchase.  I have 13-KHz because I use my K3/10 with
VHF/UHF transverters operating FM.  I do no AM but can use that filter for
AM.  I also bought a 400-Hz filter thinking it would help receiving CW, and
it does (almost too good). 
But having more noise suppression in the narrower bw does help weak CW copy
(since I only use CW for eme).

Adding more filters to the sub-Rx is not as difficult as to the main-Rx.
The sub-Rx has to be removed to add/remove or change filters in the main-Rx.
So try to get the arrangement in the main-Rx before installing the sub-Rx.

But for casual CW listening I usually dial DSP bw to 1.0 KHz for easier
listening.

I only run diversity mode for running 2m eme using digital mode of JT65b
using MAP65 sw which enables dual receive of two receivers.

But like the KX2,  both K3 and K3s do not provide IQ interface, so I tap off
the 1st IF of both receivers to go to two SDR which are phase-locked in
frequency so that diversity info is preserved at the soundcard.  Because I
tap off the 8.2 MHz IF's the signal does not go thru the roofing filters or
the DSP in the K3.  The K3 merely acts as a tunable down converter from
28-MHz which what my transverters input at.

I know this has little to offer in your decision on filters to install.  I
kept it simple (one SSB filter in my  sub-Rx).


73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
 "Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
 dubus...@gmail.com

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Re: [Elecraft] Recommended filters for Diversity Receive?

[Guy Olinger K2AV]

On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 6:10 PM, Bill  wrote:

> I use two 8 pole at 1.8Khz with the DSP set for 2.1.  I like the way it
> sounds and works.
> Bill
> K9YEQ
>

That's pretty interesting if you actually have the filters defined in the
K3/K3s as 1.8 kHz. Because what will happen when you set front panel WIDTH
control (the DSP width) to 2.1 is that the K3 will engage filters defined
as 2.1, or the next wider set of filters and will NOT be using the 1.8's.

However if you deliberately define those 1.8 filters as 2.1 in the filter
setup, then you will basically be hearing the selectivity of the two 1.8
roofers when your WIDTH control is at 2.1.

I have my 8 pole 1.8 roofers defined as 1.8. Can't stand them for casual
SSB & yak fests, but they are cat's meow for SSB contests. I have to ride
the shift control all the time for intelligibility, but that's better than
not being able to understand because the crud is terrible above or below.
If crud is terrible above AND below, some part of it is going to be IN the
bandpass and I have to give up and move.

73, Guy K2AV
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Re: [Elecraft] Recommended filters for Diversity Receive?

[Bill]

I use two 8 pole at 1.8Khz with the DSP set for 2.1.  I like the way it
sounds and works.
Bill
K9YEQ

-Original Message-


John W2ID:

You do realize that these are roofing filters and that operating bw is set
by the DSP?  Of course if you are operating in a dense high signal
environment (lots of QRM on adjacent freq) then having a roofing filter that
matches your operating bw is helpful.

I have both main and sub Rx but only use a duplicate of my SSB filter
(2.8-KHz 8-pole) in my sub receiver.  I initially bought a 13-KHz filter for
the sub-Rx not realizing it was not going to be used for diversity on FM so
I sold it soon after purchase.  I have 13-KHz because I use my K3/10 with
VHF/UHF transverters operating FM.  I do no AM but can use that filter for
AM.  I also bought a 400-Hz filter thinking it would help receiving CW, and
it does (almost too good). 
But having more noise suppression in the narrower bw does help weak CW copy
(since I only use CW for eme).

Adding more filters to the sub-Rx is not as difficult as to the main-Rx.
The sub-Rx has to be removed to add/remove or change filters in the main-Rx.
So try to get the arrangement in the main-Rx before installing the sub-Rx.

But for casual CW listening I usually dial DSP bw to 1.0 KHz for easier
listening.

I only run diversity mode for running 2m eme using digital mode of JT65b
using MAP65 sw which enables dual receive of two receivers.

But like the KX2,  both K3 and K3s do not provide IQ interface, so I tap off
the 1st IF of both receivers to go to two SDR which are phase-locked in
frequency so that diversity info is preserved at the soundcard.  Because I
tap off the 8.2 MHz IF's the signal does not go thru the roofing filters or
the DSP in the K3.  The K3 merely acts as a tunable down converter from
28-MHz which what my transverters input at.

I know this has little to offer in your decision on filters to install.  I
kept it simple (one SSB filter in my  sub-Rx).


73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
 "Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
 dubus...@gmail.com

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Re: [Elecraft] Recommended filters for Diversity Receive?

[Edward R Cole]

John W2ID:

You do realize that these are roofing filters and that operating bw 
is set by the DSP?  Of course if you are operating in a dense high 
signal environment (lots of QRM on adjacent freq) then having a 
roofing filter that matches your operating bw is helpful.


I have both main and sub Rx but only use a duplicate of my SSB filter 
(2.8-KHz 8-pole) in my sub receiver.  I initially bought a 13-KHz 
filter for the sub-Rx not realizing it was not going to be used for 
diversity on FM so I sold it soon after purchase.  I have 13-KHz 
because I use my K3/10 with VHF/UHF transverters operating FM.  I do 
no AM but can use that filter for AM.  I also bought a 400-Hz filter 
thinking it would help receiving CW, and it does (almost too good). 
But having more noise suppression in the narrower bw does help weak 
CW copy (since I only use CW for eme).


Adding more filters to the sub-Rx is not as difficult as to the 
main-Rx.  The sub-Rx has to be removed to add/remove or change 
filters in the main-Rx.  So try to get the arrangement in the main-Rx 
before installing the sub-Rx.


But for casual CW listening I usually dial DSP bw to 1.0 KHz for 
easier listening.


I only run diversity mode for running 2m eme using digital mode of 
JT65b using MAP65 sw which enables dual receive of two receivers.


But like the KX2,  both K3 and K3s do not provide IQ interface, so I 
tap off the 1st IF of both receivers to go to two SDR which are 
phase-locked in frequency so that diversity info is preserved at the 
soundcard.  Because I tap off the 8.2 MHz IF's the signal does not go 
thru the roofing filters or the DSP in the K3.  The K3 merely acts as 
a tunable down converter from 28-MHz which what my transverters input at.


I know this has little to offer in your decision on filters to 
install.  I kept it simple (one SSB filter in my  sub-Rx).



73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
"Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
dubus...@gmail.com

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Re: [Elecraft] Recommended filters for Diversity Receive?

[Byron Servies]

Hi,

The crystal filter section of the Elecraft order page has links to
both filter plots as well as the paper by Wayne and Eric that you
describe:

http://www.elecraft.com/elecraft_prod_list.htm#k3filters

hth,

73, Byron N6NUL

On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 12:27 PM, Barry LaZar  wrote:
> At one time there was a paper on the web page written by either Wayne or
> Eric ( I can't remember which) that had recommendations on filter selection.
> You might try and find it or get the author to republish.


- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2016
- www.cqp.org
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Re: [Elecraft] Recommended filters for Diversity Receive?

[Barry LaZar]

At one time there was a paper on the web page written by either Wayne or 
Eric ( I can't remember which) that had recommendations on filter 
selection. You might try and find it or get the author to republish.


73,
Barry
K3NDM

-- Original Message --
From: "Jim Brown" <j...@audiosystemsgroup.com>
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: 9/1/2016 2:47:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Recommended filters for Diversity Receive?


On Thu,9/1/2016 10:19 AM, w...@comcast.net wrote:
My primary usage will be SSB and CW contesting, and very occasional 
SSB and CW DXing.


My ears find a 1.8 kHz roofing filter too narrow for SSB, preferring 
2.1 kHz. The DSP IF can always be set narrower if desired.


I first bought 400 Hz 8-pole CW filters and later 250 Hz 8-pole. I 
nearly always use the 250 Hz filter on CW. I only use the 400 Hz filter 
for RTTY.


Diversity is VERY useful on 160, 80, 40, and even 30M. I find that I 
nearly always use diversity to pull out seak signals, so I have only 
put the narrowest filters in the second RX.


Diversity is useful in several ways. First, to overcome selective 
fading -- that simply requires antennas spatially separated from each 
other. Second, for multiple directivities, both vertical and 
horizontally. My second RX is usually connected to a Beverage.


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Recommended filters for Diversity Receive?

[Jim Brown]

On Thu,9/1/2016 10:19 AM, w...@comcast.net wrote:

My primary usage will be SSB and CW contesting, and very occasional SSB and CW 
DXing.


My ears find a 1.8 kHz roofing filter too narrow for SSB, preferring 2.1 
kHz. The DSP IF can always be set narrower if desired.


I first bought 400 Hz 8-pole CW filters and later 250 Hz 8-pole. I 
nearly always use the 250 Hz filter on CW. I only use the 400 Hz filter 
for RTTY.


Diversity is VERY useful on 160, 80, 40, and even 30M. I find that I 
nearly always use diversity to pull out seak signals, so I have only put 
the narrowest filters in the second RX.


Diversity is useful in several ways. First, to overcome selective fading 
-- that simply requires antennas spatially separated from each other. 
Second, for multiple directivities, both vertical and horizontally. My 
second RX is usually connected to a Beverage.


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Recommended filters for Diversity Receive?

[Matt Zilmer]

Personally, I find the 1.8 KHz filters best for SSB contesting. Otoh, 
haven't used the 2.1s here.  I use the 250 Hz filter for CW and some 
data modes.


73,

matt W6NIA


On 9/1/2016 10:19 AM, w...@comcast.net wrote:

Hi all,

I'm a new K3 owner, and haven't really even used the radio yet. It's at 
Elecraft right now getting the Synthesizer upgrade, and I need some help making 
a decision on filter configuration.
My primary usage will be SSB and CW contesting, and very occasional SSB and CW 
DXing.

I will have vertically polarized transmit antennas on 160m, 80m, and 40m, as 
well as a yagi or two on 40m. I will have beverages available for receive on 
all 3 bands.
I would like to take advantage of diversity receive when running on the low 
bands in a contest. I am assuming that signals sometimes fade across 
polarities, so I thought it would be useful to listen on the transmit antenna 
on the main RX and listen on a beverage or other horizontally polarized antenna 
(e.g. dipole) on the SubRX.

First question: Do any of you contesters do this, and is it useful?

Second question: Assuming the answer to the first question is yes, what filters 
do I want to have at my disposal for this?

Currently, my Rig 1 Main has 13 KHz, 6 KHz, 2.8 KHz, 400 Hz and 250 Hz, and my 
SubRX has 2.8 KHz, 2.1 KHz, 400 Hz, and 250 Hz. Elecraft will be removing the 
13 KHz, which enables me to have them move the 2.1 from the Sub to the Main if 
I want to do that.

I just bought a second K3, call it Rig 2, that only has a pair of 2.7's and a 
pair of 250's.

So I was thinking about pulling the 400 from the SubRX of Rig 1 and putting it 
in the Main of Rig 2, and moving the 2.1 from the Rig 1 SubRX to the Rig 1 Main 
RX. Then I might want to also buy another 2.1 for the main of Rig 2.
By doing this, I would end up with essentially identical filter configurations 
in both radios: Sideband filters plus 250's in both main and sub, plus a 2.1 
and a 400 in the main of both radios.

What I really need to know is:

For SSB, do I really need (want) to have a pair of matching 2.1's in both main 
and sub for diversity, or is a pair of 2.8's / 2.7's sufficient?
For CW, do I really need (want) to have a pair of matching 400's in both main 
and sub for diversity, or is a pair of 2.8's / 2.7's plus a pair of 250's 
sufficient?

If having matching 2.1's and/or 400's in main and sub is needed to get the most 
use of the Diversity feature, then I would just need to add a 2.1 in the main 
of Rig 1, but then buy a whole bunch of new filters for Rig 2.

So I guess the question boils down to: Do I want to spend $140 or $420 or $700 
? :-)

Input from contesters with diversity receive experience would be most 
appreciated. Have you made contacts using a pair of 2.1's or a pair of 400's in 
Diversity mode that would have been difficult or impossible using a pair of 
2.8's or a pair of 250's?

I want to get this right the first time, as I don't want to need to open up the 
radio a second time to make further changes.

73,

John W2ID
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--
Always store beer in a dark place.  - R. Heinlein

Matt Zilmer, W6NIA
[Shiraz]

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