Re: [Elecraft] Silly question - what is KEY OUT?
So I could use it to drive my practice oscillator, ea ? Is it active when the rig is in TX Test mode? - Keith N1AS - - K3 711 - From: Mel Farrer [mailto:farrerfo...@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 12:05 PM To: Darwin, Keith Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Silly question - what is KEY OUT? It is a T-R relay capable of 200 VDC @ 5 A. Mel --- On Thu, 1/22/09, Darwin, Keith keith.dar...@goodrich.com wrote: From: Darwin, Keith keith.dar...@goodrich.com Subject: [Elecraft] Silly question - what is KEY OUT? To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Date: Thursday, January 22, 2009, 8:57 AM What is this output? Is it a source or sync? It it a switched 5V logic level or is it a relay closure line that switches from open to short? - Keith N1AS - - K3 711 - ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Silly question - what is KEY OUT?
Kieth, From page 17 of the manual KEY OUT (RCA/Phono) is the amplifier T-R relay keying output, capable of keying up to +200VDC @ 5A. KEYOUT-LP at pin 10 of the ACC connector is similar, but the max voltage is lower and it is limited to 10 ma. 73, Don W3FPR Darwin, Keith wrote: What is this output? Is it a source or sync? It it a switched 5V logic level or is it a relay closure line that switches from open to short? - Keith N1AS - - K3 711 - ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.12/1909 - Release Date: 1/22/2009 7:08 AM ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Silly question - what is KEY OUT?
Hi Keith, From the K3 Owners Manual (Page 17): KEY OUT (RCA/Phono) is the (linear) amplifier T-R relay keying output, capable of keying up to +200VDC @ 5A. Manual Index KEY OUT: Pages 17, 19, 57 Best 73, Frank - W6NEK - Original Message - From: Darwin, Keith To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 8:57 AM Subject: [Elecraft] Silly question - what is KEY OUT? What is this output? Is it a source or sync? It it a switched 5V logic level or is it a relay closure line that switches from open to short? - Keith N1AS - - K3 711 - ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Silly question - what is KEY OUT?
There we go, now I get it! That is what I was assuming but there was enough doubt in my brain that I wasn't sure. Tnx 73! - Keith N1AS - - K3 711 - From: Dave Gilbert [mailto:d...@ab7e.com] Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 12:47 PM To: Darwin, Keith Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Silly question - what is KEY OUT? Think of it this way. Just as in software, Out refers to the flow of data or control. The terminology doesn't require a source of voltage ... only a direction of command. In this case, the control element is a relay so electrically it's just a switch that closes whenever the rig is transmitting. 73, Dave AB7E ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Silly question - what is KEY OUT?
Yes - and it is an output because it is the K3 that making a condition available (switch closure) to the outside world. An input is something coming from the outside world that would control the K3. The K3 'sends' either an open circuit or a conducting condition - it is a HEXFET driving this output - no relays are used in the K3 T/R switching or keying. I am puzzled about why you would want to connect your code practice oscillator to this output. If you want code practice, just put the K3 into TX TEST and you will hear sidetone from the K3 as you key it - no need for the external oscillator - but of course, if you 'just want to do it', then by all means go ahead with it. 73, Don W3FPR Darwin, Keith wrote: Yea, I knww, but I'm a SW person so I sometimes get lost in the EE details, even when they are very basic. By T-R Relay keying output I guess it means it is a relay that can be used to control the T/R switching of an external amp. In other words, the KEY OUT jack acts like a switch, open / closed. The Amp would have a TR line that would be providing a voltage. When the K3 KEY OUT goes to closed, the Amplifier's TR line would be pulled to ground and this would tell the amp to switch to TX. Yes? The fact it is labeled as an output confuses me a bit, making me think the K3 is sending some voltage, but the K3 sending 1KW (200 v @ 5 amps) makes no sense. I'm just hoping it can be used to make my old Heathkit code oscillator beep when I send CW with the K3. Or maybe I can use it to turn my coffee pot on :-) - Keith N1AS - - K3 711 - -Original Message- From: Don Wilhelm [mailto:w3...@embarqmail.com] From page 17 of the manual KEY OUT (RCA/Phono) is the amplifier T-R relay keying output, capable of keying up to +200VDC @ 5A. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.12/1909 - Release Date: 1/22/2009 7:08 AM ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Silly question - what is KEY OUT?
Yes - and it is an output because it is the K3 that making a condition available (switch closure) to the outside world. An input is something coming from the outside world that would control the K3. The K3 'sends' either an open circuit or a conducting condition - it is a HEXFET driving this output - no relays are used in the K3 T/R switching or keying. I am puzzled about why you would want to connect your code practice oscillator to this output. If you want code practice, just put the K3 into TX TEST and you will hear sidetone from the K3 as you key it - no need for the external oscillator - but of course, if you 'just want to do it', then by all means go ahead with it. Or, one could hook the key up to the code practice oscillator, and not involve the K3 at all! 8-) 73, George T Daughters, K6GT CU in the California QSO Party (CQP) October 3-4, 2009 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Silly question - what is KEY OUT?
OK, so how closely will it follow the keying if I'm in QSK mode? Pretty close, I assume. OR here's another question. Can I hook my Heath oscillator to the same key that is hooked to the K3? Will the keying voltage from one be an issue for the other? - Keith N1AS - - K3 711 - From: Tom Hammond [mailto:n...@embarqmail.com] Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 12:55 PM To: Darwin, Keith Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Silly question - what is KEY OUT? So I could use it to drive my practice oscillator, ea ? Is it active when the rig is in TX Test mode? NO! It follows the K3's T/R line (including programmed-in delays) , not keying! Tom ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Silly question - what is KEY OUT?
At 10:28 AM 22 01 2009, Darwin, Keith, NA1S wrote: OK, so how closely will it follow the keying if I'm in QSK mode? Pretty close, I assume. I think you and the other responders are missing a key point. As I understand it, in QSK mode, when you close the K3 Key In, the Key Out closes and then something like 8 milliseconds later the K3 starts transmitting. When you open K3 Key In, the K3 keeps transmitting for 8 milliseconds to make up for the 8 milliseconds lost at key closure, and then Key Out stays closed for another 8 milliseconds before opening. The 8 millisecond pad on each end is to make sure that your amplifier switches both on and off without RF present. So to answer your code practice oscillator question. No. The code practice oscillator will be on something like 16 milliseconds longer than your key closure. You might or might not hear the extra 16 milliseconds. I think that the 8 milliseconds, or whatever it is, is menu adjustable, but I have just accepted the default. It keys my AL-1200 bias and an external vacuum-relay TR switch perfectly for full QSK at 40 WPM which is as fast as I ever go. 73, Hank, W6SX Mammoth Lakes, California Elevation 8083 feet in John Muir's Range of Light ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Silly question - what is KEY OUT?
Hi Keith: The Key Out relay is only energized during transmission. This is what you would want for an amplifier. So for example if you turn your VOX off and press your key or paddle, the Key Out relay will not energize. If you turn your VOX on it will energize but you will also be transmitting. If you are in normal VOX control, the Key Out relay will stay energized longer than your key press based on your VOX delay setting. So it won't follow your dits and dahs. I suppose if you turn QSK on, the Key Out will follow the dits and dahs of your key presses or the internal keyer. It was mentioned that Key Out is available on the accessory connector. I use this output for an antenna relay and it is NOT identical to the Key Out jack we have been discussing. First it is a transistor output with limited current handling capability. You would need to construct a driver circuit to interface to it. Second, it IS present when you are not transmitting. It precisely follows the dits and dahs when VOX is turned off. When VOX is turned on it has the normal VOX delay applied. I pointed this out to the factory and Wayne wrote the following: This is how it works at present, but based on customer feedback, I may change it. 73, Mike K2MK ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Silly question - what is KEY OUT?
OK, so for my needs (driving a code practice oscillator), I'd do better to take the key output that is available in the accessory connector PROVIDED my oscillator doesn't generate too much voltage at its inputs and doesn't source too much current when the inputs are shorted. Both of those are easy enough to measure with my DVM Looks like 10 ma max current, but what is the max voltage? - Keith N1AS - - K3 711 - -Original Message- From: K2MK [mailto:k...@comcast.net] Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 2:51 PM To: Darwin, Keith; Elecraft Reflector Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Silly question - what is KEY OUT? Hi Keith: The Key Out relay is only energized during transmission. This is what you would want for an amplifier. So for example if you turn your VOX off and press your key or paddle, the Key Out relay will not energize. If you turn your VOX on it will energize but you will also be transmitting. If you are in normal VOX control, the Key Out relay will stay energized longer than your key press based on your VOX delay setting. So it won't follow your dits and dahs. I suppose if you turn QSK on, the Key Out will follow the dits and dahs of your key presses or the internal keyer. It was mentioned that Key Out is available on the accessory connector. I use this output for an antenna relay and it is NOT identical to the Key Out jack we have been discussing. First it is a transistor output with limited current handling capability. You would need to construct a driver circuit to interface to it. Second, it IS present when you are not transmitting. It precisely follows the dits and dahs when VOX is turned off. When VOX is turned on it has the normal VOX delay applied. I pointed this out to the factory and Wayne wrote the following: This is how it works at present, but based on customer feedback, I may change it. 73, Mike K2MK ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Silly question - what is KEY OUT?
The Key Out relay is only energized during transmission. This is what you would want for an amplifier. So for example if you turn your VOX off and press your key or paddle, the Key Out relay will not energize. If you turn your VOX on it will energize but you will also be transmitting. If you are in normal VOX control, the Key Out relay will stay energized longer than your key press based on your VOX delay setting. So it won't follow your dits and dahs. I suppose if you turn QSK on, the Key Out will follow the dits and dahs of your key presses or the internal keyer. May be a bug in my K3 2306, but if you hit the paddle the key out does key the amp with the VOX turned off. Merv KH7C ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Silly question - what is KEY OUT?
This isn't a bug, it's the way it was implemented. Originally, whenever in cw, hitting the key would cause the rig to transmit, either in VOX or PTT mode. A change was made so that the rig would not transmit unless it was in VOX or the PTT was engaged. In PTT mode, the rig still keys but doesn't output any RF; different from the way most all other rigs behave but it works. Hopefully, once Wayne gets peoples' Duckies included, they go back and set it so unless in VOX mode the rig doesn't even key when the paddles are closed. Terry -- Original message -- From: Merv Schweigert k...@flex.com The Key Out relay is only energized during transmission. This is what you would want for an amplifier. So for example if you turn your VOX off and press your key or paddle, the Key Out relay will not energize. If you turn your VOX on it will energize but you will also be transmitting. If you are in normal VOX control, the Key Out relay will stay energized longer than your key press based on your VOX delay setting. So it won't follow your dits and dahs. I suppose if you turn QSK on, the Key Out will follow the dits and dahs of your key presses or the internal keyer. May be a bug in my K3 2306, but if you hit the paddle the key out does key the amp with the VOX turned off. Merv KH7C ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Silly question - what is KEY OUT?
Thanks Merv: I stand corrected. I just verified that the Key Out relay is energized when not transmitting. And therefore it is the same as the Key Out on the accessory connector. And when the VOX is off the Key Out will follow the dits and dahs. Learn something new every day. 73, Mike K2MK -- From: Merv Schweigert k...@flex.com Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 3:30 PM To: K2MK k...@comcast.net Cc: keith.dar...@goodrich.com; Elecraft Reflector elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Silly question - what is KEY OUT? The Key Out relay is only energized during transmission. This is what you would want for an amplifier. So for example if you turn your VOX off and press your key or paddle, the Key Out relay will not energize. If you turn your VOX on it will energize but you will also be transmitting. If you are in normal VOX control, the Key Out relay will stay energized longer than your key press based on your VOX delay setting. So it won't follow your dits and dahs. I suppose if you turn QSK on, the Key Out will follow the dits and dahs of your key presses or the internal keyer. May be a bug in my K3 2306, but if you hit the paddle the key out does key the amp with the VOX turned off. Merv KH7C ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Silly question - what is KEY OUT?
Do not be mislead by the manual as I was last weekend during the VHF contest. The LP has nothing to do with low ***RF*** power. It is active when producing 100W or 0dBm in transverter mode. Currently there is no K3 keying output that is ONLY active when transverting. To achieve this I had to gate the KEYOUT-LP on pin 10 and the DIGOUT0 signal on pin 6 Perhaps it should have been labelled LC (low current)? Dave WW2R ) Message: 2 Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 12:15:33 -0500 From: Don Wilhelm w3...@embarqmail.com Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Silly question - what is KEY OUT? To: Darwin, Keith keith.dar...@goodrich.com Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Message-ID: 4978a9b5.90...@embarqmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Kieth, From page 17 of the manual KEYOUT-LP at pin 10 of the ACC connector is similar, but the max voltage is lower and it is limited to 10 ma. 73, Don W3FPR ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Silly question - what is KEY OUT?
K3 #1239 with FW 2.78 also keys the amp with VOX off. That is not a bad thing for me. Being able to key that line without putting RF on the coax is useful. 73, Guy. - Original Message - From: Merv Schweigert k...@flex.com To: K2MK k...@comcast.net Cc: keith.dar...@goodrich.com; Elecraft Reflector elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 3:30 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Silly question - what is KEY OUT? The Key Out relay is only energized during transmission. This is what you would want for an amplifier. So for example if you turn your VOX off and press your key or paddle, the Key Out relay will not energize. If you turn your VOX on it will energize but you will also be transmitting. If you are in normal VOX control, the Key Out relay will stay energized longer than your key press based on your VOX delay setting. So it won't follow your dits and dahs. I suppose if you turn QSK on, the Key Out will follow the dits and dahs of your key presses or the internal keyer. May be a bug in my K3 2306, but if you hit the paddle the key out does key the amp with the VOX turned off. Merv KH7C ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Silly question - what is KEY OUT?
Guy, thanks for the confirmation on that operation, wonder what you or others use the key line for with no RF? Its a pain for me as if I hit the paddle to hear speed or play cw, the relay in the amp clicks away, dont need it keying that more than needed to wear it out. Its a vacuum relay. Guess I just have no need to key the amp with no RF. How about a menu function to turn it on and off if some folks need it. Merv KH7C K3 #1239 with FW 2.78 also keys the amp with VOX off. That is not a bad thing for me. Being able to key that line without putting RF on the coax is useful. 73, Guy. - Original Message - From: Merv Schweigert k...@flex.com To: K2MK k...@comcast.net Cc: keith.dar...@goodrich.com; Elecraft Reflector elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 3:30 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Silly question - what is KEY OUT? The Key Out relay is only energized during transmission. This is what you would want for an amplifier. So for example if you turn your VOX off and press your key or paddle, the Key Out relay will not energize. If you turn your VOX on it will energize but you will also be transmitting. If you are in normal VOX control, the Key Out relay will stay energized longer than your key press based on your VOX delay setting. So it won't follow your dits and dahs. I suppose if you turn QSK on, the Key Out will follow the dits and dahs of your key presses or the internal keyer. May be a bug in my K3 2306, but if you hit the paddle the key out does key the amp with the VOX turned off. Merv KH7C ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
